President Obama Ups the Rhetoric — Slightly — About the Legitimacy of the Iranian Elections

“The thing about Iran is that the leadership will gain more through becomming more open and democratic.”
Not really true when your group has absolute power. By embracing democracy, you must also embrace the possibility that you will not be in power sometime in the future. Few have ever given that up willingly or without bloodshed. I doubt seriously the current regime is going to do that. Their priority is maintaining power, and part of that is maintaining a facad that they are democratic. Not much different than soviet strategies in the Cold War. Give people the impression they are in control when in reality, they are not. Or stack the odds and only have supporters of the current regime available to vote for. Still plenty of old tricks they pull.

yeah — we need more DEMO(n)-cracy!
democracy has sure worked well exposing all the liars out there. The financial mess — lies (to self) by homeowners / “regular, honest” people, not just financial cronies.
…the beat goes on. 2012!

“It’s not productive, given the history of U.S.-Iranian relations, to be seen as meddling — the U.S. president meddling in Iranian elections,”
That’s an understatement. He needs to be very careful or else he will simply provide the Iranian establishment a scapegoat for the upcoming bloody crackdown (where they kill the ‘agents of the Great Satan’ insulting Islam by protesting for their rights). Iranian rulers are VERY good at blaming anything on the US and/or Israel (the Great and Little Satans).

” Moderation of a theocratic system of rule by Muslim clerics to address the desires, aspirations and sentiments of all of the population is not that far off from what we do.”
No, it’s pretty far removed.

===Iranian rulers are VERY good at blaming anything on the US and/or Israel (the Great and Little Satans).===
We can recognize that again? I didn’t know for sure.

when your supposed enemies are in the process of tearing themselves apart, why get in the way with needless rhetoric, especially if the forces of ‘moderation’ win they might be inclined more towards better relations with the west, and if the Mullahs keep power, the country will be weaker because of the rioting for more freedoms.

I think we should do everything we can to help the Mullahs keep power through moderation and addressing the concerns of all of the Iranian people. If the system of clerics should tumble (which I doubt is possible), then the only order left would be the Revolutionary Guard. Then we would have a problem.

“… the United States, South Korea, China, Russia, all relevant actors — Japan — ”
Why are you so hesitant to mention Japan? Is it because of those two Japanese men who were caught in Italy smuggling $134 BILLION in U.S. Treasury Bonds into the Swiss Bank?
Let’s just hope that story never makes it to mainstream news (wink, wink).

Ever notice that when Obama prefaces something with, “As I have said before” it is most likely the first time he has actually articulated said statement? I also get nervous when he says, “let me be honest with you.” It makes me wonder if he was not being honest prior to that statement. Another favorite of mine is when he is flustered or angry with a question he says, “Well look here…..” I think someone once said that words mean something, but that person seems to forget that there are video cameras that often catch the first thing said and it can be contrasted pretty easily with the new thing said. He may have forgotten this because most of the media do him a favor and don’t bring up those inconvenient truths. Good thing we have Jake Tapper! Keep it up man.

By your definition, because that entity rules “rightously and with moderation”, that makes that entity valid. All leadership of nations believe they are doing that, be it Hitler, Mao Tse Dong, or Stalin. Not differentiating them by what empowers them is what makes them completely different than us. Obama is empowered by free and open elections, empowered by the governed, the Theocracy is not.
———————-
All governments are empowered through the consent of the governed. Elimination of opposition through bloodshed, rather than rightous moderation, is the principle division, which we hope Iran will navigate successfully.

“All governments are empowered through the consent of the governed. Elimination of opposition through bloodshed, rather than rightous moderation, is the principle division.”
What do you call an oppressed people simular to communist nations? Iran has laws against protest, against speaking out against the government. How is the ruling on consent of the governed? Saddam, being Suni, severly oppressed the majority Shia (and Kurd) population in Iraq, was he under the consent of the governed? (well, maybe about 20% of the governed).

Mark, when a regime controls the press, controls dissent, and threatens their people to stay in line with the government, that’s not under the consent of the governed. The Iranian populace is teetering on a point in history. If the government feels threatened by the people, the government will do what all totalitarian regimes do, they will result to force or covert oppression. They will begin snatching up the ring leaders of protestors (who have broken their current law against protesting the government), throwing them in jail, sending a message to the rest of the populace not to dissent. This has no relationship with a consent of the governed, none whatsoever.
In the 1930′s, Stalin executed an estimated 30 million of his own countrymen because he believed they were not loyal to the regime. That is an extreme example, but for years anyone who opposed the communist regime was jailed, even executed long after Stalin.
When the people cannot determine the regime that represents them through regular elections that are free, open, and fair, they are not consenting, they are oppressed. That has nothing to do with our system. The mere fact that our nation switched parties in the last 2 years is proof enough as this is impossible in Iran.

Thank you Candice…..Jason, your opinion about Candice’s appreciate of our president is just that: your opinion…
Thank you Candice

KR- If I screw up your education so bad that you can’t reason for yourself, so you sit in front of the TV to get your opinions, is that consent?

Well we’re at the “deep concern” stage from Obama but on critical international issues his “nuance” mojo fails him. He comes off as a milquetoast cross of Don Knotts and Tom Joad “whereever there is violence, uh, I will express my uh deep concern”.
A president is not only the commander in chief but advocate for American values. This truly is a bipartisan issue, look at the blogosphere and you will find it so, so why can’t he stand stronger. His inoffensiveness to the world is in itself now becoming offensive.

After NK gives up arms for Carrots & stick. We can take bows & arrows for Iran. Wow what a great idea. Thanks to Clintons.

Yes the President should be cautious, but he should be forthright about our ideals not milquetoast.
There is nothing wrong with our opposition to the terrorist and oppressive regime. While the Allies 1950s action to install, really reestablish, the Shah was too much out of the British imperial playbook, the motivation was that Mossadegh was a classic stand-in for democratic reformer like Kerensky, Benes, or Masaryk who would be pushed or putsched out of the way and Iran – and Iraq would fall behind a Southern Iron Curtain. Never forget these circumstances.
The “game” of intrigue in Central Asia is still in play. Perhaps this time the Iranian people themselves will be dealt a better hand.
Our President should be out front with this (and also pursuing it covertly with all due speed and determination)

We don’t know per se if these Iranian protests will change politics in Iran. I believe the Pres. should remain mute for the time being otherwise the Iranian government will use it as an excuse to supress and kill the opposition. Regarding NK this issue goes back to the Clinton Administration by giving up the NK by giving monies and technology to built a nuclear power plant and now is using the weapons as a ace of spades to trump the west.

Here we go again. Another spank your hand president.

The POTUS is good at avoiding a lot of stir over things he cannot do a whole lot about.. measured responses to such things are fast becoming a hallmark of this administration. I kind of like it.

The massacre in Iran is worse than the tianeman square massacre in China. The media provided walll to wall coverage of that tragedy. I guess Obama has only given them permission for limited, if any reporting on this issue because Obama supports the murdering Ahmadinejad and not the democracy seekers.
By the way, for the morons who still believe Bush stole the 2000 election from Gore. Let me remind you newspapers such as the new york times and USA today among others did a complete recount and discovered that Bush did indeed legitimately win.
They buried the reporting on this and only reported it deep in their respective papers just after 9/11 happened when no one was paying attention.
LOOK IT UP IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME! Below are only two examples
AP: A vote-by-vote review of untallied ballots in the 2000 Florida presidential election indicates George W. Bush would have narrowly prevailed in the partial recounts sought by Al Gore, but Gore might have reversed the outcome – by the barest of margins – had he pursued and gained a complete statewide recount.
The Palm Beach Post put it more dramatically:
Palm Beach Post: Al Gore was doomed.
He couldn’t have caught George W. Bush even if his two best chances for an official recount had played out.
NOTICE THAT THEY REPORT IN A DEFINITIVE MANNER BUT CLAIM GORE MIGHT HAVE, WHICH MEANS BUSH “MIGHT HAVE” AS WELL.

President Obama Ups the Rhetoric?
That’s his foreign policy in a
nutshell, Rhetoric aka Blah, Blah, Blah!
He’s “troubled” by the election?
How about saying We, The United States
of America, support democracy and
fair elections and we believe that
neither has occurred in this instance!
What is he afraid of?
Offending Ahmadinajad?
Guess what, Mr President he still hates
us and Israel and would like to destroy
both countries!
He will still pursue nukes whether we
comment on the election or not!
Why not support democracy?
Is the president afraid of offending
the Mullahs who support Ahmadinajad and
hold the same views toward nukes,
Israel and the U.S.?
I didn’t think any U.S. President could
look meeker on the foreign policy stage
than Jimmy Carter. I was wrong.

Obama will NEVER use military force to prevent either Iran to gain, or North Korea from Proliferating Nuclear Weapons. He doesn’t have the stomach for it, they know it and both of these nations are exploiting this to the max. JFK proved his metal with the Cuban Missle Crisis. This is just as big, if not bigger and our President will be found wanting…. Kim’s son may even be so emboldened as to launch an attack on South Korea, with the idea that when push comes to shove, Obama will not resort to nuclear weapons to save the South, and we do not have the manpower to send help. They have an overwelming superiority in numbers, and the Comunist North is not concerned about taking casualties, as we are. No, foreign policy will be President Obama’s Waterloo. Senator McCain has said that we should be ready for a “worse case” scenario comming from the North. I believe that if another missle launch, or nuclear test goes un apposed, that Worst Case Scenario will become a deadly reality. I do hope for all our sakes, I am proved to be WRONG!

Many of you who favor a big stick approach to international affairs have not read Dale Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. Bullying doesn’t work and causes far greater resentment and resistance, when what we need is willing cooperation, not forced compliance. Viewing everything in terms of “weakness’ shows basic insecurity in your own personalities — I’m sure you think of yourself as “strong”. Thank the gods you are not diplomats.

I really believe our President is doing the right thing, I personally believe they are trying to provoke a response and distract us from solving our real problems,which rebuilding our financial and economy system, I believe they are afraid of a complete recovery, a complete recovery would mean a much stronger America, but make no mistake about The President resolve to protect, I think the enemy would gravely underestimate the President respond if truly threaten us with a strike, but I happen to think that nobody is that stupid because the consequence would be grave, like the saying goes “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog, If you can’t tell this President got guts you have got to be blind,he’s not a saber rattler, but he’s strong and he’s got guts, but most of all he got wisdom.

NK is building nukes to gain respect but his people are starving. I would respect him if he could find a way to feed these people.

Bush in fact did steal the 2000 election,read this from the washington post:
- Washington Post Sunday , November 12, 2000 ; Page A22
Yes. Something very strange happened in Volusia County on election night November 2000, the night that first Gore won Florida, then Bush, and then as everybody can so well remember there was a tie.
Something strange indeed. But what exactly? In the above report ( click for full version), written days after the election, hotshot Washington Post reporter Dana Milbank goes on to attribute the strange 16,022 negative vote tally from Volusia’s precinct 216 to an apparently innocent cause.
“…. faulty ‘memory cards’ in the machines caused the 16,000-vote disappearance on election night. The glitch was soon fixed,” he wrote.
Faulty memory card my a##.