In Weekly Address, President Obama Says Health Care Reform Can’t Wait

Despite being able to read a teleprompter, Obama is a poor communicator. I consider myself pretty media saturated, and I still don’t know how his health care plan would work. Is there a public option, and if not, then are private health insurers forced to take everyone? What if a person has a preexisting condition? Will health insurance companies still be able to cut somebody off in the middle of treatment? And how will all of this affect people who already have insurance? And how will this affect Californians? We already subsidize most of the country. Will this hurt us even more?
The president has to do the hard work of explaining his plan to Americans. Instead he just states that we need health care when we already know that. What we need to know is how it will work.

What a LIE BO….. “I will not sign on to any health plan that adds to our deficits over the next decade,” the president pledged. yea… and I have some swamp land in TX I want to sell you for building lots… cheap..

Where are we going to get the money? We are BANKRUPT!!! Jeez, first China bought up our ports, what else do they get next Obama??? Our cities and infrascructure TOO!!! Just how much would you like to enable the Chinese government to blackmail us further!?! Who do you think you are… Bill Clinton!!!

amber – Organic health food that is minimally processed is a solution. Universal healthcare to keep smokers, obese people that won’t stop eating, etc alive is not a solution. My premiums are going up considerably next year, and I don’t make anywhere near $250,000. My solutions reflect Ron Paul’s ideas as in competition in health care. The government can’t even deliver the mail for a profit.

The Stimulus plan can’t wait. Bailing out GM & Chrysler can’t wait. Healthcare can’t wait. I’m suffering from “can’t wait” fatigue.

Things overlooked…
From Betsy MacCaughey:
“…Obama promises that “if you like your health plan, you can keep it,” even after he reforms our health-care system. That’s untrue. The bills now before Congress would force you to switch to a managed-care plan with limits on your access to specialists and tests.”
“When you file your taxes, if you can’t prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you’ll be fined thousands of dollars — as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size — and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).”
“ABC News/Washington Post poll (June 21) finds that 83 percent of Americans are very satisfied or somewhat satisfied with the quality of their health care, and 81 percent are similarly satisfied with their health insurance.”
“The World Health Organization ranked the United States No. 1 out of 191 countries for being responsive to patients’ needs, including providing timely treatments and a choice of doctors.”
What’s the hurry, again?

“The Stimulus plan can’t wait. Bailing out GM & Chrysler can’t wait. Healthcare can’t wait. I’m suffering from “can’t wait” fatigue.”
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Buck up.

“What’s the hurry, again?
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You should talk to jennifirt or MayBee . .. according to them the health care system is a mess.

Half the people in this nation have no voice in their government now, because checks and balances are not in place. Obama inherited an economic downturn and has turned it into an economic disaster. With Pelosi in lockstep we are dismantling all working mechanisms in government to “improve” them. Yet, there is no transition plan laid out to specifically address the dismantling. Also, nowhere in his health care plan does it mention the reality that we don’t have enough doctors, nurses and clinicians to service an additional 40% uninsured. Our med schools only admit so many each year. What are we going to do, hire more foreign doctors who have been certified overseas in inferior medical schools? The good thing is we can oust enough democrats from Congress in 2010 to restore checks and balances to government, and we will, and then we can oust Obama in 2012 and put a proven patriot in the White House who will protect, preserve and defend this nation. We simply have to try to survive another 3.5 years. BTW, did anyone notice the number of dignitaries who refused to shake hands with him on his most recent Russian trip? Another first for an American president. Amazing how only the overseas networks reported it. I caught it on the BBC.

“Obama inherited an economic downturn and has turned it into an economic disaster.”
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Nonsense, this is a major world-wide economic crisis. Almost ALL of the world’s governments are dealing with massive unemployment, business closings, incredible strain on government budgets . . . this is not a problem isolated to the Obama administration – if you think another administration could snap their fingers and fix the economic breakdown in the world, you’re sadly misinformed.

“Also, nowhere in his health care plan does it mention the reality that we don’t have enough doctors, nurses and clinicians to service an additional 40% uninsured. Our med schools only admit so many each year. What are we going to do, hire more foreign doctors who have been certified overseas in inferior medical schools?”
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Hiring of foreign doctors has been going on for years. You also may have noticed, President Obama campaigned on increased and improved education – and he’s already begun to deliver on that. A concerted effort must and will be made to increase the number of medical professions graduating from American educational institutions.

This has to be the biggest lie thus far obammy has told! If all of his plans are so good and will work, why in the H*** can’t he back up his jaw jacking with some facts and pencil out???

“..”would empower Washington, not doctors and patients, to make health care decisions.” Hah, that’s a good one! Doctors and patient don’t make their health care decisions now. It’s the INSURANCE companies that decide. That’s what is so laughable from the GOP every time they scream “no” to health care reform. They act as if the insurance industry doesn’t run the health care industry. It does. People who are supportive of the current system have never had to fight with the insurance companies…or they are politicians whose pockets are lined with contributions from those same companies.
Bring on the reform, Mr. President! The majority in the country back you and the Congress. Let the GOP continue to shout “no” to everything, along with all the folks who believe any change is about socialism, marxism, communism, blah, blah, blah…

anderson n carolina——–The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 28% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-six percent (36%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of———Is 28% considered a majority in NC?

“Let the GOP continue to shout “no” … ”
In unison with the California Nurses Association, the Physicians for Social Responsibility, and most of the population that’s NOT in the government biz.
When the people figure out what the O organization means to do to Medicare, they’ll be marching on DC with pitchforks.

so this is another emergency? seems like something this huge and sweeping would warrant more time to get it right. or next year will they be telling us they underestimated the problem and oops sorry the trillion we spent isnt working….just like the “stimulus”

Unfortunately, it appears that many who have posted in support of “reform” are misled about what the current legislation has in store for Americans.
It does not address tort reform or insurance premiums. It does not incentivize people to make good healthcare choices. But, here are just a few of the things it does in fact do:
1. Prevent you from picking up private insurance if you change jobs or lose your coverage for another reason. You will be forced onto the public doll.
2. Cap your access to healthcare. A Federal government body will decide who shall live and who shall die because their healthcare is no longer “a good investment.” (Read about the genesis of the Holocaust if you don’t believe this is a clear and present danger.)
3. Destroy the crown jewel of America – our healthcare system – by removing the incentive for the best and and the brightest to practice in what is already a high-liability and demanding profession.
Have you been to a VA Hospital? Have you had a parent or relative on Medicare? THAT is a snapshot of how the government approach healthcare and “savings.”
They can take my money – but I pray daily that they do not succeeed in destorying this nation’s healthcare. So what if it is 16 percent of GDP? What better use of resources is there than protecting and advancing our health and well-being?

The Republicans are just hoping to delay passage long enough to allow the insurance company lobbies more time to do what they did 15 years ago… kill any chance of reform that might cut into their enormous profits.
Deja vu all over again. Meanwhile, more people live without insurance or live one illness away from bankruptcy, and health care costs continue to rise exponentially.
If the lobbyists are successful (again) in killing meaningful reform this time, we will be right back in this position in another 15 years, only costs will be even higher and more people will be living without insurance. And then they will kill reform again, and we will be back here in ANOTHER 15 years…
BTW, I wonder how many of those congressman screaming about health care reform adding to the deficit were as concerned about Bush adding nearly $2 trillion to the deficit with his tax cuts to the rich and unnecessary war in Iraq? I guess those deficit dollars were OK?

Can someone out there who supports this ridiculous plan…can you please tell me how in the hell it will be paid for? We are hemmoraghing jobs right now….and if you bleat the “tax the rich” crap one more time…baby I am here to tell you that when these taxes approach the 45-50% levels and they are, people will simply quit producing and making money!

Bet Noir – where do you get that 2/3 of the public want a single payer plan? I personally do not know ANYONE who wants that. If 2/3 want it, you would think that someone in my wide circle of family, friends & aquaintences would want it.

from the LA Times=========Britain and Canada control costs in a very specific fashion: The government sets a budget for how much will be spent on healthcare that year, and the system figures out how to spend that much and no more. One of the ways the British and Canadians save money is to punt elective surgeries to a lower priority level. A 2001 survey by the policy journal “Health Affairs” found that 38% of Britons and 27% of Canadians reported waiting four months or more for elective surgery. Among Americans, that number was only 5%.
Looks like rationing to me!

CWG – my neighbor’s daughter-in-law waited 6 months for her gall bladder to be removed in England. A friend of mine here in the U.S. waited a week (both were diagnosed the same month).

I am in the late 40′s, and have been working over 20 years as an engineer. I has never been unemployed, but I don’t expect that I can work to 65. In my profession, retirement at 55-57 is typical.
At the rate healthcare is going, I can’t afford healthcare when I need it the most. I can probably get by with shelter and food, but noway I can afford buying my own health insurance. So I believe government backed healthcare is the way to go.
Some people worry we can’t afford free healthcare. My wife, who is a nurse, didn’t think so. She said, 45c of a dollar go to the Healthcare administrator. All the poor and illegal aliens have already gotten healthcare through the States. Only the middle class are those who suffer. We are working more, getting less.
Will free healthcare bankrupt the country. I doubt it. Let the system works itself out. There are a lot of way to reduce cost in current healthcare system. For example, count how many Pharmacy in the square mile where you live today. There are at least 2 pharmacist working in each store which take home at least 120K a year. Do you think we need all of them?

I can’t believe we are buying this nonsense…..right now, insurance companies can demand wwithout reimbursement to doctors a copy of your file and even without a signed release if a doctor is paneled with the company. Medicaid just recently sent a letter saying the same thing threatening providers that you must permit full access. Do you really want government to have this kind of control? By the way, I may bill $100.00 an hour for psychotherapy but the reimbursement rate is 63.00 an hour. Try running a business on this! The government proposes to pay less shortly and has been cutting back reimbursement with Medicare. Guess what! Not only mental health but also long term care….what does that spell?

“Unless you’re retired union, government or military when you retire you [are] normally left without insurance.”
And now the O’Blabla organization’s poised to screw up Medicare, just as the WarBaby and Baby Boomer generations He railed against during the campaign are coming of age for Medicare.
Note that O’Blabla’s captive liberal e-groups are again, today, sending out publicity slamming Democratic Senators — including Dianne Feinstein — who won’t go along with this baloney. (LAST week, the O’Blabla organization was AGAINST this. Go figure.)
Looks like He knows He’s losing this one.

I heard this on a webcast of ABC News and nearabout fainted!
“When you file your taxes, if you can’t prove to the IRS that you are in a qualified plan, you’ll be fined thousands of dollars — as much as the average cost of a health plan for your family size — and then automatically enrolled in a randomly selected plan (House bill, p. 167-168).”
So no matter what you will join! I have also looked at how much Obama’s plan will cost me and guess what…. my current plan with OneNet is cheaper and better services! I only pay for me….not illegal aliens, not someone else who won’t get off their butt and get a job but chooses to have their 3, 5 and 7 year olds declared ‘BiPolar’ to get a large disability check!

The Obama we have seen over the past few days is the Obama I voted for. The firm, get it done, Obama. I’m behind him 100%, but my biggest problem with Democratic politicians is that they are too d@mn soft. You have the power, you have the votes, SO GET IT DONE. Do not wuss out to the big mouth repubs!!If they were in power they wouldn’t give two sh!ts about what the dems have to say. Like Obama said…….WE NEED TO BUCK UP AROUND HERE !!!!!!!

State-owned car companies, state-owned banks, state-owned health insurance, hmmmm, what’s left? Oh, yes, the state decides what type of toothpaste or which fast food restaurants are ‘good’ for it’s people. I heard about a country like this years ago, but the people wanted more freedom of choice and not to go into their local stores and only be able to purchase one bathing cap. Give up? USSR.

We Americans who take care of our health, families, pay our premiums, and do what we need to do to keep ourselves healthy, we are tired of caring for those who misuse their health care. We are tired of paying higher premiums from the likes of irresponsible Republicans and Conservative Democrats.

“If [the Republicans] were in power they wouldn’t give two sh!ts about what the dems have to say.”
They wouldn’t HAVE to: the former “Democrats” can’t stand conflict — when the Republicans are in power, the Democrats don’t say ANYthing. That’s how we got the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Patriot Act, and domestic surveillance.
With the previously-”Democratic” Party IN power, all Oblabla and His minions can do is continue the worst of Republican policies, throw several trillions of public dollars into corporate bailouts, and balk at Single Payer Health Care.
If the Republicans emerge as the saviors of Medicare, it won’t be a “Democratic” Congress NEXT year — that’s why O’Blabla’s crying wolf again, and demanding Congress pass something before people figure out what He’s doing.

Medicare has not ever been designed for long term care. Home heatlh agencies, and other health care systems have fraudulantly taken from Medicare and Medicaid. Long term insurance is expensive and should be purchased at an early age to kept up like health care premiums.

Elle | Jul 18, 2009 3:29:57 PM
ok…what was September 2008?

Deja vu, 15 years ago. Same scare tactics from those protecting the status quo. Same “MY plan is OK, I don’t care about anyone else” attitudes, same bogus, selfish rationalizations for not at least TRYING to fix a huge, screwed up mess. Let it go by again this time, folks, and you’re STILL going to be paying for the uninsured. Period.

Elle –and how much are your LTC premiums?

Do I have to state the obvious? Democrats love people, Republicans love money, end of story. Posted by: Ed | Jul 18, 2009 3:42:21 PM
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John Kerry
Ted Kennedy
Bill Clinton
John Edwards
John Kennedy
All rich by anyone’s standards, Democrats, with a fake love of people. Get real.

BAMA IS ON THE RIPPLE AGAIN.AFTER HE GETS BAMACARE WE MAY ALL BE ON RIPPLE

THIS ARTICLE SAID: “In the Republican response to the president’s address, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., claimed the congressional Democrats’ plan “would increase spending by more than $2 trillion when fully implemented,” and, “would empower Washington, not doctors and patients, to make health care decisions.”
The basis for these claims was unclear.”
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LOL…. These are the same “folks” that bbrought us the “Iraq Threat” (LOL)… “the basis” for that was also — “UNCLEAR”.
Would you “realllly” believe a Republican now? Especially after Iraq?

A vote was taken on the floor the other day to ensure that all house members both Democrats and Republicans use whatever health bill is passed as their own insurance. Democrats voted NO. They don’t even want the bill their cramming down out throats.

CBO now claims the cost of the new Health bill will skyrocket to 2 billion dollars in 1st year.

Sure sounds like the system’s working fine (see below).

Obama’s agenda would eliminate doctor-patient confidentiality. Obama wants a political appointee, a “Czar”, to have access to EVERYONE’s health information. This would be stored in a centralized database accessible to the Czar and who knows who else. This information will include: perscription history, sexual history, mental health history, health history, and likely bloodtype and DNA! What happens when this data is hacked by criminal? What happens when a political appointee decides to use this information for blackmail/political purposes? Will this information be accessible by police without a warrant?

Unemployment has now skyrocketed to 15% in parts of CA, AZ, AK, OH and Michigan. Is over 10% in another 15 states and rising fast! Unemployment is causing people to lose their homes left and right and is the number one cause for bankruptcy.

The Democratic controlled house now has an approval below 30% and falling fast. Republicans now have higher numbers in recent polls on 8 of 10 critical issues, including the economy and health care!

CBO now claims the cost of the new Health bill will skyrocket to 2 trillion dollars in 1st year.

When President KEVORKIAN aka Obama gets through with Health Care Reform the only ones who will have rights to healht care will be the union workers and favored minorities, everyone else bette3r start picking out their coffins.

Ever since Obama started talking about using savings from Medicare to pay for his plan I have wondered how that is possible. I thought Medicare taxes, premiums, and funds were only to pay for Medicare. Any savings found in Medicare needs to be plowed right back into the trust fund. Lord knows that it will run out of money as soon as the baby boomers start using it as their primary health insurance.

Sam Said: “When President KEVORKIAN aka Obama gets through with Health Care Reform the only ones who will have rights to healht care will be the union workers and favored minorities, everyone else bette3r start picking out their coffins.”
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Now that’s a really “factual” based statement… LOL … you have to Lovvvvve these kinda folks.

CWG Said: “Quick Check —Remember…many Dems voted to go to war with Iraq also…Hillary and Oblama too.”
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CWG, speaking before you check your facts? Obama wasn’t even in Congress when we went the congress voted on Iraq… :-)

Jack Smith… WHOLE HEARTEDLY AGREE. Already wrote my congressional representatives that I agree, we need to fix health care in our country!

X-Republican Because of Bush –ok give you that part…but the fact of the matter is many Dems did vote for the war…so don’t go lily white on us like they had nothing to do with it. Hopefully you don’t have to wait for your surgeries when this comes to pass cause it is gonna hurt!

What about Christian Scientists or others who, for religious reasons, don’t believe in doctors? Will they be fined if they so not purchase insurance? This is too much government interference. LEAVE US ALONE!!!!!

Common sense is screaming, yes health care reform can wait.
What is the rush? We rushed through the stimulus, and the bank bailout. It had to be done immediately or the economy would collapse, the banks would go under. Most representatives admitted that did not have time to read through what they voted for.
Now Obama is trying that tactic again. This time, Congress has over 1,000 pages to read through. Obama wants a vote by the end of August.
He needs to slow his roll. Our national debt us now over $11 Trillion. That should take everyone’s breath away.
Unemployment is over 10% nationally, over 14% where I live. The foreclosure crisis is not yet over, the banks are still unsteady.
This is NOT the time to propose over $1.5 Trillion is additional spending. Taxing the wealthy will not cover the costs of this plan. It’s likely that costs will double, so where will the money come from?
China, again?
Are we not in enough debt with China yet?
Another major hurdle is that illegals will be covered, as well as abortion.
That’s right! Planned Parenthood, our #1 abortion provider, will be an approved ‘health ‘ care provider.
This is a bad idea from every angle.
I hope our representatives are listening, because Obama isn’t.
Vote NO! Kill this monster of a bill before it bankrupts us!

When we went to war in Iraq, nobody said its going to be expensive that will cause us billions in deficits plus 4,000+ American lives. Now we want to reform health care so all Americans can have affordable, quality health care. The Republicans message is “it’s expensive, it won’t work, let’s debate some more, slow it down, let’s procrastinate”. The Democrats say “we’ve been debating this for 6o years and it’s gotten worse and worse. Now it’s time to act and get it done.” I really admire the Republicans relentless attack on the President’s health care agenda. They’re very good at it. The American voters should relegate them to the minority opposition every election time. Because if they’re in power they’re going to mess up everything, from foreign policy to the domestic economy. They can’t deliver for the American people.

Erin, yes, your Fox-induced nightmare scenario has really happened in the FORTY YEARS since Medicare came into effect. Right. You see, the EXACT argument that you’re trying to make was made then. The arguments you’re attempting to advance are stale, they’re old, they’re delusional, they’re hysterical, they’re fear-mongering. What they aren’t is fact-based.

From two former presidents….MUCH smarter and more honest than our present empty suit:
“The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government.” –Thomas Jefferson
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.– Gerald R. Ford

“Unemployment is over 10% nationally, over 14% where I live. The foreclosure crisis is not yet over, the banks are still unsteady.”
–> AND there were a lot of poor people, many of them black people living unpleasantly in cities, BEFORE O’Blabla — who never mentioned them –smarmed His way into the White House.
Anybody who didn’t have his head up his gall bladder might conclude that the beginning of a depression — a scary upheaval that makes everybody SICK — is a really GOOD time to institute Single Payer. But noooo.
Instead, the weasels of the formerly-”Democratic” elite are thinking up more ways to FINE people.
O’Blabla’s designed a cradle-to-grave surveillance system cum insurance-company bailout, masquerading as “health care reform”. Cute.
The Congress oughta impeach this poseur right out of His “historic” office, before he screws up anything ELSE.

Bet Noir –well said…I think the most frightening thing about oblama is the fact that total idiots voted for him; people who really never voted before (wonder what “motivated” this time? I had heard of some caucus stunts that sounded plenty illegal)…many of these same people don’t even know who Biden is or Pelosi…not that they are anyone I really want to know either, but they just listen to the msm spouting obamaland …they don’t even have the intelltigence to KNOW what this country is about!

Reality Check wrote: “They voted for the war because trumped-up intelligence reports were jammed down America’s collective throat.”
What about the Democrats voting for the Iraq Liberation Act–authorizing regime change in Iraq–where the Democrats said that Iraq had WMDs. Was THAT trumped-up intelligence back then–1998?

ABC, as forensic accountants that specialize in pre filed and post confirmation bankruptcy issues and as expert witnesses on financial cases, the description Mr. Kyl put forth is not painting the starkest picture possible. You don’t want to know what the downside of all this could very well be.
Representative Kyl in my opinion is giving somewhat of a rosy picture.
We shall see soon enough.

But HUGE deficits are the way to prosperity, right? Let’s spend on all these political favors and just see what happens. After all, what could possibly go wrong with the Anointed One in office? Every American should subscribe to this debt-to-prosperity Obamanomics theory by running up huge household deficits to hasten prosperity. Ooops, sorry. That was done in the 1990s and we all know how well that turned out. 1/20/13

wake up people all of your elected officials that are against reform are in the pocket of the insurance companies fear is all they have to scare the american people

“I think the most frightening thing about oblama is the fact that total idiots voted for him; people who really never voted before … ”
Don’t blame O’Blabla’s unseemly seizure of state power on the poor and clueless: smarty-pants media manipulators including Jonathan Alter, Keith Olbermann, Chris Matthews, and — heaven help us — Oprah Winfrey just couldn’t shut up about the world-historical wonderfulness of His doubly-dubious DNA.
Now they all look like idiots — but at least they’re all rich enough to go out of the US for medical care . . .

Your health care is decided by insurance companies based on their profit margins and you are worried about the government making your health care decisions? Are Americans really that stupid? I hope not.

talmag, The reason Health Care costs are so high now is because of Government. Medicare under reimburses so hospitals pick up the difference. Government regulation makes health care costs sky rocket. Government refusal to enact tort reform laws forces physicians to order unnecessary tests and pay exorbitant malpractice insurance premiums etc etc. Get the government out of health care, let insurance companies offer portable plans that includes catastrophic coverage up to Cadillac coverage so people can pick and choose based on their needs and ability to pay. For the poor and the out of work let the government supplement their insurance premiums based on their ability to pay. If government was out of health care, hospitals would not have to supplement Medicare and costs would go down. If the government was out of the health care market insurance companies would not have to deal with onerous regulations and design their plans based on what the people want, need and are willing and able to pay for. If government would enact tort reform laws, the ambulance chasers would not be allowed to drive up costs with frivolous law suits. “Government is not the answer. Government is the problem.”

jpt writes (of Senator Jon Kyl, R-Ariz)
“The basis for these claims was unclear.”
Uh … and the basis for the O’Blabla organization’s ridiculous claims, including today’s recycled doomsday predictions (the very same sky-is-falling “emergency” jive that buffaloed Congress into okaying trillions for bailouts and billions for stimulus), ARE clear?? :^)

I look at the standards of care received in America with for profit coverage vs what is given in Canada and Great Britain and wonder how anyone can say we would all do better under a govt plan.
Canadians flock across the border for better care. Where will we go. Mexico? They are already sending their poor over here for free care.
Why should the large majority of Americans who now have health coverage be forced into a govt HMO type policy because a minority of people aren’t covered. I fully expect our company benefits to be withdrawn if this bill is passed and we will be forced into an HMO type govt policy.
We have had to pay for COBRA coverage twice in the last 6 years. We made sacrifices to pay it, to stay insured so that we would not be uninsurable when we were employed again. We were responsible. We didn’t expect “the rich” to pay for our health care.
The entitlement mentality growing in this country is frightening.

Obama has already created 2 billion new jobs, and the stimulus has been an unqualified success. How bad can his health plan be?

flopez=====please tell me that was said tongue in cheek.

CWG, what do you think? Sadly some Obamites probably do

“It sure isn’t Obama vs. the GOP.”
Not unless Senator Dianne Feinstein, for example — who likely represents many Democrats who are still afraid to speak publicly against O’Blabla’s baloney — has changed parties . . .

Meanwhile, O’Blabla’s Bureau of the Public Debt — part of the Treasury — has been forced (by a DEMOCRATIC Senator) to apologize for attempting to hire a cartoonist to “ease the stress” of management meetings.

Obama has already created 2 billion new jobs Posted by: flopez | Jul 18, 2009 7:04:48 PM
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I heard it was 4 billion…

Now they all look like idiots — but at least they’re all rich enough to go out of the US for medical care . . .
I agree…except for one thing…they all looked like idiots before to me…
Oblahblah wants more government, bigger government and more of your money to pay fior it all. We are broke….that is one thing they never say…simple words that working taxpayers say every day! It sounds something like this and usually concerning some purchase….listen carefully liberals!
“We…can’t….afford…it! Say it again with me…you too Oblahblah…
“We can’t afford it!!”

“Obama has already created 2 billion new jobs, and the stimulus has been an unqualified success. How bad can his health plan be?”
Worse than His throwing arm!
Worse than His dancing!
Worse than His exploding teleprompter!
Worse than His endless boring speeches.

Do you guys post here just to complain in good company or do you really think it’s going to impress the people who matter most that you’ve got any opinions worth even considering when you use childish names like ‘Oblahblah’ in reference to our generally liked President?

According to Rasmussen, just 35% of U.S. voters now support the creation of a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurers.
Obama’s message to voters? Screw you!
America wanted CHANGE. America got CHANGE. Our once great representative republic has transformed into an oppressive tyranny. Enjoy!

“Trillions of dollars MORE broke, than before O’Blabla [sic] opened to Treasury to the banks and financial corporations.”
Wow, some people have really bad memories. The TARP bailouts were put in place in 2008 (psst… Obama wasn’t President in 2008)

They cannot reform healthcare until they completely target and identify what exactly is causing this rapid cost increase in healthcare. 300% increase in a decade? Somethings going on. Is it malpractice lawsuits, is it govt. medicare fraud, is it AMA what the hey is going on to make it completely and totally unaffordable.

Did you hear that they intend to penalize small business 8% if they don’t offer healthcare benefits. This is the exact opposite way we need to be going. We need to get employers out of the healthcare biz and get it back into hands of consumers who will have more choice if able to purchase individual policies.

Wow, some people have really bad memories. The TARP bailouts were put in place in 2008 (psst… Obama wasn’t President in 2008)
–> But he WAS a US Senator. Sort of.

Lisa says: “Wow, some people have really bad memories. The TARP bailouts were put in place in 2008 (psst… Obama wasn’t President in 2008)”
Guess what Lisa? The TARP bailout was put into place with the cooperation and assistance of Obama’s future Treasury Secretary Geithner and his senior financial advisor Summers. Bush caved to the pressure from the Obama team due to some misguided sense that he should cooperate with the future president in destroying the free market.

“Bush caved to the pressure from the Obama team”
That’s baloney. Paulson was pushing for it as much as anybody.

“employers” don’t routinely arrange for the OTHER necessities of life . . ”
It’s better to pool insurance that buy it individually. I can’t believe that you are not aware of that. We’ve been pooling insurance at the employer level for awhile now.

skip says: “That’s baloney. Paulson was pushing for it as much as anybody.”
Paulson was pushing for it as much as Geithner and Summers were, but he was doing it to benefit his buddies and his interests on Wall Street. I do know that regardless of whoever pushed for it, the bailout amount was eclipsed by the following bailouts and the “stimulus” plan under the Obama admin.

“WELCOME TO THE USSR. NOT MEANT TO BE FUNNY – IT IS NOT!!”
Yeah: O’Blabla’s organization is kind of a center-right Politburo. It is intolerable.
Don’t use ALL CAPS. It’s unreadable. This is an immutable law of typography.

This truly isn’t a dem or rep thing….this isn’t about war…this is a freedom to choose thing….which this President is using too many strong arm tactics with the Auto industry and banking system. Now, he’s afraid people, small businesses and anyone else this will impact will learn the truth about all ‘the fine print’. He wants to ‘rush’ this through….before anyone reads it.

Robert Scheer writes:
“Why didn’t the federal government just lend the money to the states? Why was all the money thrown at Wall Street instead of needy homeowners or struggling school systems? Because the federal government works for Goldman and not for us. Indeed, when it comes to the banking bailout, Goldman Sachs is the government.”
Same for O”s “insurance” scam: Single Payer, the sensible solution, generates no corporate kickback of campaign funds.

Why don’t we have health insurance like auto policies. Policies are rated by your risk factors,age and the cost of care in your area. You could buy a basic hospitialization plan or you could add what ever extras you want or could afford from there. We need to get away from employer provided coverage and I would rather have the flexibility in choosing my coverage than having a governement one size fits all coverage.

Concerned in OH —Harkin says whatever feels good depending on what his audience is…he is goofy.

“Keep up, cantcha?”
I’m trying, but how about you having some patience on the other hand. I think we’re going to end up with single payer eventually but it won’t come easy. It seems like you as much as anyone expect Obama to walk on water.

He’s blaming the business going under and families going under on Health Care costs… Interesting, I thought it was the banks and the mortgage companies and Wall Street…
These are problems he’s creating as he goes

Skip =I liked Edwards too, but he broke one of the cardinal rules. People won’t trust someone who cannot even be honest with their own spouse. +++++++++++++++With the left that is only true if the cheater is a repub. It’s the double standard that some on the left live by. Look how popular Bubba still is with that bunch.

Amanda Moserski He can just tax the “rich” so much and then what?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It’s part of his trickle up poverty plan

There’s a very good reason for Obama’s hurry. His mentor was Saul Alinsky, author of “Rules for Radicals”. Alinsky wrote:
“There’s another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families – more than seventy million people – whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year [in 1971]. They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we fail to communicate with them, if we don’t encourage them to form alliances with us, they will move to the right. Maybe they will anyway, but let’s not let it happen by default.”
In Rules for Radicals, he argued that the most effective means are whatever will achieve the desired ends, and that an intermediate end for radicals should be democracy because of its relative ease to work within to achieve other ends of social justice.
Source: Wikipedia
Things make a lot more sense now, don’t they? Social justice. Where have you heard that phrase before? From Obama himself. Now you know why the mainstream media buries any connection between Obama and Alinsky.

More like seize more assets in his usual totally unjustified way for an unproven shady unnecessary scheme.

“I will not sign on to any health plan that adds to our deficits over the next decade,” the president pledged.
Well then, unless Obama’s lying, he won’t be signing any health care plan into law.

National Health Care is but another avenue that Obama is using to increase the number of people working for the Fed. More people working for him equal more votes for the Libs. What employee is going to vote against an employer (Fed) who gives him what he wants? This is how it works in the rust belt. Cities run into the ground for years and years by Dems. Same hacks get voted back in by employers who vote. Often public employees are told who to vote for. It’s a mutual admiration society. Disaster ahead for the federal government? Of course, but until Obama’s policies are finished taking their toll, the Lib owned news media, entertainment media and academia will gloss over the disaster in progress until it becomes obvious that we are on the bottom.

Concerned in OH
Bet Noir
I’ll leave it to you. One of you can say that Obama is no good because he wants to initiate government healthcare and the other argue that he is no good because he won’t immediately push for single payer. Then one of you can say that Obama is no good because he wants to close Gitmo and the other can argue that he’s no good because he won’t prosecute Cheney. One of you can say that he’s no good because he won’t push for a constitutional amendment declaring marriage as between a man and a woman and the other can say no, he’s no good because he won’t push for gay marriage right now. And then you’ll both agree that he’s not bipartisan enough.

Government offering to help those not able to afford health insurance is one thing, but to punish through penalties those who choose not to participate is an another thing all together..

Trajan . ..
If only those clean, honest and decent Republicans could get back in power snorting their noses around they would bomb Iran, bomb Venezuela, bomb North Korea, bomb Cuba, bomb Bolivia – and fix this whole economy nonsense with a snap of their blessed fingers.

Time for Obama to make another overseas trip and pretend he’s the king of the universe. Then he can make an appearance in Washington to ORGANIZE his troops. Methinks they may have caught on to his strategy and are beginning to think for themselves.

Don’t worry Barrack. All you have to do is hang in there for 3 more years and you’re set for life. You’ll even get your own SS detail. Life will be good.

The President will pass Affordable Quality Healthcare for All Americans, and we are watching who consistently opposes it. Sen. Kyl is receiving Socialized Affordable Healthcare from me as a Taxpayer, as well as his family. The American People, Senator Wants Affordable Quality Healthcare, and the Medical Community wants it too. I wonder did any One of these opposing Senators Wanted a “printout” on the Cost of the Iraqi War? Bush Lied to the American people that the “oil” will pay for it…..remember. So Senator, you are “spitting” hot air, and we, the Uninsured and those of us that are fighting with the Managed Care industy who are “coming between” Doctors and their patients, to save “money” and not “the patient”, will remember.

In fact Shirley, I am very proud of this President…I think he is doing an absolutely fantastic job…
Going against almost constant and extreme opposition, he is tenacious and pragmatic. I have watched as he is consistently attacked and yet he keeps focus on what he has been sent to Washington to do, and to the Americans that sent him there…
After watching the GOP for the last 7 months, it has become very clear to me that besides their political posturing they will continue to stand in opposition to this President and to the American people that voted to put him in the WH. Hoping and waiting for Obama to fail.
After watching the GOP for these many months it has become easy to see the hypocrisy that they claim to stand for. They claim to put the country first and yet are not wise enough to know that the People ARE the country… They seem fine with sending millions and millions of dollars to other countries to help rebuild… But become stone when it comes to investing within THIS country and for our own people…
I am beyond tired of the constant fear mongering and scare tactics that have become the GOP. For me, it indicates that the GOP have become the mouth pieces and lobbyist for the wealthy and big corporations…
President Obama carries with my voice and the voices of proud Americans like me who realize that time is now… that we can no longer kick issues like health care, energy and education down the road…
As I watch and listen, I notice that although Obama may not have all the answers, at least he is willing to listen and at least HE is trying… and I am indeed very proud of that fact.

Please someone tell me why our Congress will not go to the root of the problems with healthcare. Why will they not look at “tort” reform? Why will they not put a stop to frivilous lawsuits in medical cases? Why won’t they put a cap on how much a medical malpractice suit award can be? the insurance industry? Why will they not consider how much health care providers pay in malpractice insurance premiums? Why will they not consider how the cost of education to become a health provider and ways to reduce those costs? Why will they not regulate Why will they not look at ways to prevent the massive Medicare/Medicaid fraud? They cannot efficiently run Medicare, how can they run a similar program for the whole country? And how do they think they will pay for this? This is too much “government” for me!

“I have watched as he is consistently attacked and yet he keeps focus on what he has been sent to Washington to do, and to the Americans that sent him there…”
Most polls show that Americans oppose or are skeptical of many of Obama’s policies, including this one. If he were doing what most Americans wanted, wouldn’t his poll numbers be going up rather than down? Hmmm?

“Obama has realizes he is already a lame duck just six months in. He’s just going to get even more hysterical.”
He has GOTTEN more hysterical, and absolutely unprincipled: now HIS organization is kicking off an ad campaign in Congressional districts against representatives who oppose His horse-puckey on “health care”.
Try to imagine FDR — or JFK or LBJ –doing this . . .

Interesting Obama used the word “seize”
because thats ALL this bill does. ITS not about fixing ANYTHING. Its not about helping anything. its about SEIZING more power. NOT about helping. Obama is all about SEIZE. Its not about fixing health care. AND thats why it needs to fail.

IS CONGRESS and EVERYONE in government the FIRST to be put into this program? Of course not because this plan they propose is NOT for the elite. Its for the sheeple so they can “seize” more of you money.

“I think that Mr. Obama is afraid that his legacy may not be the first black President, but the first one-term black President. That’s why you will see him ram up policies and even lies as he gets near the 4-year cycle.”
He’s not an American “black” president anyway: he’s a half-African raised by white people — in Hawaii, and then in elite prep schools and universities.
Better David Axelrod should have run a political grooming shop for himSELF, instead of for Deval Patrick and O’Blabla. But Axelrod wouldn’t have enjoyed the press blindness imposed by the O’Blabla birthday suit.
The saddest thing about this charade is that it’s probably going to be quite a while — approximately until Hell freezes over — before there’s ANOTHER “black” president.

1) Ram through tort reform for health care and everyone in the business.
2) pay for the tuitution for anyone that makes it through to be a doctor.
this will increase the number of doctors.
3) WORK on a fix the insurance issue for doctors.
You do this you can fix the COST of health care and it wont cost trillions.

Obama’s healthcare plan is like his stimulus. ALL just smoke and mirrors. NOTHING gets fixed and the government spends so much money we will be broke.
Economy Michigan is past 15%? And you like the democrats? Thats all thats in Michigan. You are such fools.

Simple. Because then Congress doesn’t control your life. You do.
Hey Chuck. how is it that the Insurance giants have more control over my life than I do…
As Wendell Potter former head exec for the insurance giant CIGNA… According to PricewaterhouseCoopers, for the seven largest insurers, the medical loss ratio—how much of a premium dollar is used to pay medical claims—fell from 85.3 percent in 1998 to 81.6 percent in 2008. The result, says Potter, amounts to several billion of dollars for those insurance companies and a plunge in stock value for those companies that fail to continually cut their medical costs.
The soaring profits have been achieved by pushing unprofitable patients off the rolls, denying coverage, jacking up premiums and selling plans that provide little coverage.

Small business have been particularly hard hit by the premium hikes. According to the National Small Business Association, the percentage of small businesses offering coverage declined from 61 percent in 1993 to 38 percent today.
This effects me directly as I am employed by a small business that searches for affordable insurers so that I am forced to have a new insurer at the beginning of every year…
Higher rates with less and less benefits… The one offered is basically catastrophic insurance…
The majority of my customers are the self employed and small business owners who can no longer afford to provide insurance for their workers and many have no insurance for themselves as well.
“They are trying to make you worry,” says the former Cigna executive, “and fear a government bureaucrat between you and your doctor. What you have now is a corporate bureaucrat between you and your doctor.”
So corporate bureaucrat vs government bureaucrat is what all this boil down to…
It has always and only been about profit…

Small businesses, in particular, he said, have had trouble maintaining their employee health insurance coverage, he said.
“All it takes is one illness or accident among employees at a small business to prompt an insurance company to hike the next year’s premiums so high that the employer has to cut benefits, shop for another carrier, or stop offering coverage altogether,” he said.

“So corporate bureaucrat vs government bureaucrat is what all this boil down to…”
If O gets His way, it’ll be corporate bureaucrats AND government bureaucrats.

All this is under our current health care system…
It is beyond me to understand why some would oppose a total overhaul and reforming of this system unless,,, they are somehow prospering from it…
Or, unless they are just Obama haters and can’t pass up a chance to criticize no matter what.
Then is becomes totally transparent…

All i want to know is will they take the time to read this 1000 page book before voting on it, i know that would upset obama timetable but i would rather have them read it and let the people have a chance to read it

Why don’t guys educate yourselves on how health care would indeed help everyone, not just some and quit with the small minded insults, and criticisms…
The current system of health care is unsustainable and a drag on the economy.
We get it, there are Obama haters and that’s ok… you have every right to hate whoever you want… But, will also let that blind you to exactly how system is ineffective and how it cannot possibly sustain itself in the long term…
Can you not see how the current system does not serve the individual, the self employed nor the small business owner…
to “ignore” the truth is to be truly “ignorant”…

theafalcon – the Federal government caused this problem & now you want them to “fix” it?

America can wait. But Obama cannot.
He knows America is waking up. America is on to him.
Sometimes I wonder if he is more concerned about making life better for people or about his own legacy.
Does he want health care for everyone no matter how crappy it is or how it bankrupts America–just to be able to say I’m the guy that got health care for everyone when no other president could?
It’s always about him.

Ofcourse the republicans are against healthcare legislation. Obama would get the credit and they would once again get nothing. So now the republicans are trying to protect their wealthy healthcare industry friends.

“Obama has already vowed that health care will not add to the deficit or hurt small business”
–> So many vows, so soon flouted.

The falcon200 wrote: “It is beyond me to understand why some would oppose a total overhaul and reforming of this system…”
That’s because we see beyond the rhetoric. President Obama talks about the public option being an alternative. The Democrats talk about not wanting the federal government to completely takeover healthcare.
The TRUTH of the matter is that once the public option is implemented it WILL undermine the private sector–both in raising the cost of the private sector with the many rules changes they plan AND by undercutting the private sector because the public option is not a for profit entity. THAT will shut down the private sector leaving ONLY the public option. THAT means we will lose our individual freedom because the federal government will force you to be insured. But even more importantly it will be the government bureaucrats that will decide which procedures you WILL have (you will no longer be aloowed to refuse healthcare) and which procedures you WILL NOT be given (you will no longer be able to pay cash for procedures that will not be covered). Eventually the federal government will control every aspect of our lives. THAT is NOT the change I want for America.

“Eventually the federal government will control every aspect of our lives.”
Sure thing James, pretty soon they’ll control what kind of flowers you plant and the time of your next visit with your mother-in-law.

“It is beyond me to understand why some would oppose a total overhaul and reforming of this system…”
Call me old-fashioned, but HOW could ANYbody in Congress — having sworn, if nothing else, to uphold, protect, defend the Constitution of the US — be bullied into voting for “a total overhaul and reforming” nobody — particularly the “public”, which will pay for it AND be subject to its provisions, as members of Congress will NOT (having Single Payer coverage for life, unless they should suddenly repeal THAT) — allowed to read, study, or debate?
Remember the outrageous abuses that have emerged after the Congress took hurry-up-”emergency” votes that rubber-stamped first the Patriot Act, then Obama’s bailout and stimulus bonanzas for the corporations.

“Many Canadians and Canadian doctors live at least part-year in the Tampa area … ”
“At least”? If they lived there FULL time, they’d be . . . Floridians. Or expatriates. :^)

If lawyers are going to “fix” health care, then doctors should “fix”tort system. Tort reform would ensure lower costs without lower quality and accessibility. Achieve tort reform and you wouldn’t have to ration health care which is exactly what will happen under a single payer plan. Notice that neither party wants to tackle the lawyer problem?

Danita wrote: “Sure thing James, pretty soon they’ll control what kind of flowers you plant and the time of your next visit with your mother-in-law.”
I know you are going into the extreme, but don’t scoff. The day could come that certain plants will be taxed because the powers that be want to limit their use for whatever reason. Look at how the USDA has already suggested to the EPA that they should consider implementing a methane tax on cattle and hogs (the average dairy cow puts out enough methane gas to equal four tons of CO2 a year). The American Farm Bureau Federation actually suggested a tax of $175 per head of dairy cattle, $87.50 per head of beef cattle; and $21 per hog.
The EPA says it will not implement such a tax. But the Liberals in Congress could pass the methane tax once they get the Cap & Trade bill passed.
Now as for “the time of your next visit with your mother-in-law,” if under the federal government’s healthcare system should she be refused a medical procedure that causes her death then yes, the next visit could be her funeral. And what if the global warming activists in Congress were to ever ration air travel to limit greenhouse gas emissions!

U.S. MEDICAL BANKRUPTCIES A MYTH; PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY RATE HIGHER IN CANADA
The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to medical expenses is a myth. Therefore, the introduction of government-run health insurance in the United States will do nothing to reduce personal bankruptcies, concludes a new study by the Fraser Institute.
The current debate about reforming U.S. health care policy has included suggestions that nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the United States result from uninsured medical expenses or loss of income due to illness. Advocates of socialized medicine argue that this would not occur if the United States adopted a government-run health system similar to Canada’s. However, if socialized medicine played a role in reducing personal bankruptcies, we would expect to see a lower rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States.
To the contrary, says Fraser:
The personal bankruptcy rate was actually higher in Canada in 2006 and 2007 (0.30 percent for both years) than in the United States (0.20 percent and .27 percent).
Medical spending was only one of several contributing factors in 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies — medical debts accounted for only 12 to 13 percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
Medical reasons were cited as the primary cause of bankruptcy by approximately 15 percent of bankrupt Canadian seniors (55 years of age and older).
Non-medical expenditures comprise the majority of debt among bankrupt consumers in both Canada and the United States; the inability to earn sufficient income to cover these costs — not exposure to uninsured medical costs — is the real explanation for almost all bankruptcies in either country.
Thus, bankruptcy statistics do not support arguments for a government-run, single-payer, socialized health insurance system, says Fraser.
Source: Brett J. Skinner and Mark Rovere, “U.S. Medical Bankruptcies a Myth; Personal Bankruptcy Rate Higher in Canada,” Fraser Institute, July 7, 2009.

Medical problems contributed to nearly two-thirds (62.1 percent) of all bankruptcies in 2007, according to a study in the August issue of the American Journal of Medicine.
The data were collected prior to the current economic downturn and hence likely understate the current burden of financial suffering.
Between 2001 and 2007, the proportion of all bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6 percent.

Gail Heriot, a law prof, wrote an article for National Review on February 11, 2005 refuting the Harvard study, “Illness and Injury as Contributors to Bankruptcy”. One of the authors, Dr. Steffie Woodhandler admitted her agenda was universal health care. Worth a read.
“For example, the study classifies “uncontrolled gambling,” “drug addiction,” “alcohol addiction,” and the birth or adoption of a child as “a medical cause,” regardless of whether medical bills are involved. Yes, there may be situations in which a researcher might legitimately want to classify those conditions as “medical,” but a study that is being used to prove that Americans are going bankrupt as a result of crushing medical bills is not one of them.” Further “…only 28.3 percent of the surveyed debtors themselves agreed with the authors that their bankruptcy was substantially caused by “illness or injury.” The rest put the blame elsewhere, even when the study labeled their problems as at least in part “medical.”

danita Just keep saying the same things over and over. You might get lucky and actually have someone like yourself believe you.

The study being cited here regarding medical bills being behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies is from 2009, long after the 2005 article you are quoting.
Posted by: danita | Jul 19, 2009 8:08:13 PM
=============
Are you referring to the 2009 study Elizabeth Warren co-authored?

I know it’s a different study, but 4 years didn’t make a juge difference in the number of bankruptcies – it’s the failure to use clean data that is the problem. I would like to see how the 2009 study defined medical issues. You don’t seem to grasp that these studies out of universities are agenda driven, just as the studies from the UN via WHO are agenda driven. We always show a high infant mortality rate because the US reports late miscarriages and stillbirths while other countries do not. Where in God’s name in this country do people actually believe we have high infant mortality rates? Have you ever seen what goes on in a NICU? Yeesh, if you have a sick baby, this is the country you want to be in when you give birth.

James . .. .
“Hundreds of Canadians come across the boarder every day and pay cash for medical procedures that either they are unable to get or will have to wait 6 months to get.”
What medical procedures are hundreds of Canadians having to wait 6 months for and thus coming across the border?
Which procedures are Canadians waiting 6 months for?

In the article I referred to in my previous comment, is the following excerpt:
“Here’s what happened: Told that he would have to wait a year for surgery to replace his painful, arthritic hip, 73 year old George Zeliotis of Quebec decided to pay for the procedure himself. But Zeliotis was shocked to learn that it’s against the law in Canada to get private medical care. In fact, according to the Pacific Research Institute, Canada, Cuba and North Korea are the only countries that ban private health care where as countries like France and Switzerland allow their citizens to purchase supplemental health insurance on the open market.”
George Zeliotis sued and IT WAS HIS CASE in which the Canadian Supreme Court struck down the Quebec law that banned private medical insurance–referred to in my previous comment.

“if you have a sick baby, this is the country you want to be in when you give birth.”
If you have a post-newborn baby who’s sick with meningitis, however, you REALLY don’t want to take it to a non-profit Medicaid-churning clinic in the US … to have baby’s meningitis symptoms “diagnosed” as nothing-really-wrong, followed by a lifetime of tending an ever-growing baby-child-young person-adult in a wheelchair.

Concerned in OH. ..
Not in the Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University study just published in 2009 – that found medical bills being behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies.
From the study . . . .
“Individuals with diabetes and those with neurological disorders such as multiple sclerosis had the highest costs, an average of $26,971 and $34,167 respectively. Hospital bills were the largest single expense for about half of all medically bankrupt families; prescription drugs were the largest expense for 18.6 percent.”

James . . .
I’m still waiting on the questions. What procedure is it that Canadians are waiting 6 months? And crossing the border ‘hundreds per day’?

DANITA – WHY DO YOU THINK THE CANADIANS HAVE HEALTH CARE LOTTERIES WHERE THE WINNERS GET MOVED UP THE WAIT LIST? DUH!!!

moderate . ..
As is often the case, I’m checking the ‘factual’ information posted here. James Danley posted the following . .
“Hundreds of Canadians come across the boarder every day and pay cash for medical procedures that either they are unable to get or will have to wait 6 months to get.”
My questions were simple. What procedure are Canadians waiting 6 months to get? And thus crossing the border by “hundreds . . . every day” in order to obtain?

James . ..
Let’s deal with Bypass Surgery. By Province . . .
Ontario: 61 days
Manitoba: Emergency Immediate; Semi-Emergency – 7 days; Elective: 46 days
Alberta: 34 days
Saskatchewan: 81% done in less than 21 days
This information is from the Canadian Institute for Health Information based on 2007 information.

James . . .
Let’s move on to hip replacement wait times where you use the scary number 2 years . . .
Ontario: 210 days
British Columbia: 72 days
Alberta: 116 days
Manitoba: 133 to 385 days
Anyway, you get the picture. The numbers YOUR source gives are scare tactic numbers – for heaven’s sake that site is there as an encouragement for people to use PRIVATE FOR PROFIT clinics.
So the pattern emerges . ..

James, the fact that organizations like Timely Medical even exist in Canada confirms major problems for wait times DO exist there. I had a cardiac ablation recently at the Cleveland Clinic, which is an elective procedure. It was a matter of a few days, NOT UP TO THREE YEARS AS IN CANADA. Also, I have had cardioversions (also elective) the next day (Cleveland Clinic – outpatient) after proper blood test. If any country can beat that record – which one is it?? Our system IS the best. Problems, sure, but still the best!!! Speaking of the Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins and others, no other country in the world can come close to offering the medical services and research which those institutions have provided. Gov run medical care would surely destroy all of those great successes.

HOW MANY “WAIT TIMES” BUSINESSES DO WE HAVE IN THE US COMPARED TO CANADA? SAYS A LOT DOESN’T IT!!!

So, while I was out researching wait times in canada, the rest of you got to some of this info as well. Good! Here’s some more facts for the debate:
Ontario province publishes their “target wait time” for various procedures, as well as their actual wait time. I should point out that in the fine print, they explain that when they say the wait time is 30 days, for example, by their definition they only have to serve 90% of those waiting for it to count.
Their wait time for general surgery, for example, is 103 days. That means 90% of those on the waiting list have had surgery by day 103. The other ten percent have not.
In 2008, the province’s target wait time for an MRI was 28 days, but the actual wait time average was 110 days. Of course the wait varies widely from hospital to hospital. Mount Sinai in Toronto, for example, had a wait time of 155 days and Ottawa Hospital, 288 days.
The wait for prostate surgery is an average 88 days, and that’s close to their target wait of 84 days. So that means that they find it acceptable to expect men to routinely wait over two months from the time it is determined that prostate surgery is necessary until the surgery is performed. No wonder American five year survival rates are higher than Canadian ones!
I am confused by the fact that Danita quotes wait times of two months for bypass surgery in a Canadian province and think she is proving some point about the superiority of the canadian system, rather than scaring the pants off people. Really, Danita, the fact that you can prove James D’s specific charge of “waiting six months” is wrong by saying, “gee, no, heart patients are only waiting a month or two or three” really boggles my mind.
I do not live in a major metropolitan area. But when I had to undergo a catherization, it was less than a week from my first visit to the cardiologist to the cath, which resulted in same-day angioplasty and stenting. I had several blockages, including one of 80%. I am glad I live in the United States, frankly, because I might not have been able to wait those extra days I would have had to wait in Canada or Britain or elsewhere with single-payer managed care. I did not have to fear having a heart attack while I waited for the cath, nor did I suffer more damage waiting that might have resulted in a bypass operation rather than angioplasty.

6/24/09
“In fact, our actual average hip replacement wait time is 91 days”
Dr. David Zelt, chief of staff and vice-president, medical administration, at Kingston General Hospital, Ontario, Canada.

The availability of elective procedures to tinker with the joints and organs of medically-solvent elderly people, and rich people with wrinkles, is wonderful indeed.
On the other end of the health-care-availability spectrum, “community” clinics tied to the good ole government are ALREADY treating a zillion cases of “undiagnosed” cancer, heart disease, and whatnot with psycho-pharmaceuticals and pain pills.
So . . . many of the American poor and near-poor don’t LIVE long enough to “need” hip transplants they can’t afford.
Single Payer would solve it all — except for the insurance companies’ big bottom lines, that generate all the campaign-donations kickbacks to “our” Congress (and president).

moderate . ..
Let’s see you post some wait times on those procedures from the United States. Bring it on!

GOV RUN HEALTH CARE. HOW WILL IT BE RUN? LIKE THE NATIVE AMERICAN HEALTH PROGRAM? LIKE MEDICARE? LIKE THE VA? LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY? ALL DISASTERS. AND…. OBAMA’S MEDICAL PLANS WILL BE NO DIFFERENT. BY THE WAY, THE IDEA OF TAXING THE RICH TO PAY FOR SAME? AIN’T GONNA WORK. IF I WAS A RICH GUY, I WOULD MOVE MY MONEY OR BUSINESS OFF SHORE, AS CERTAINLY THE RICH FOLKS WILL DO – LEAVING THE REST OF US POOR SLOPS LEFT TO PAY FOR DUMB PLANS THAT HAVE NO CHANCE OF WORKING ANYWAY!! HEY TEXAS – HOW SOON ARE YOU GONNA DEPART FROM THIS MESS? WAIT FOR ME!!

“Take Susan M., a 54-year-old human resources executive in New York City. She faithfully makes an appointment for a mammogram every April, knowing the wait will be AT LEAST SIX WEEKS.”

Well, I’ll try to stay up a bit longer to provide Danita with that requested info on American wait times. So far I have run up against several abstracts of articles I can’t access from my home computer, so I’ll look into them later this week when I’m on campus. For now, I can give you the results and conclusion section of an abstract of an article in the Journal of the American Association of Cardiology, an article entitled, “International comparison of waiting times for selected cardiovascular procedures”:
“Results. Significant differences in waiting times (p 9 months.
Conclusions.
Physicians report that patients treated in health care systems structured differently from the non-VA hospital system in the United States wait significantly longer for cardiac catheterization and coronary artery bypass surgery.”
In other words, people in America (except those dependent on the VA) have SIGNIFICANTLY SHORTER wait times for cardiac caths and bypass surgery than those in Canada, Britain, or other countries with single-payer health care.

moderate . .. .
And there were about 12 different procedures posted for waiting times in Canada. Where is your information on the waiting times in the United States?

“Take Susan M., a 54-year-old human resources executive in New York City. She faithfully makes an appointment for a mammogram every April, knowing the wait will be AT LEAST SIX WEEKS.”
So Susan M. might wants to have the procedure done in June, right? Because if she does this every year and knows it will be six weeks, she could plan to call in January or February to schedule a mammogram in April.
We have no information that she is at risk, so I think we can assume this is Susan’s annual well-visit mammogram. If Susan had found a lump or had some other reason to suspect breast cancer, her gynecologist would be able to arrange to get her in for a mammogram much more quickly, of course.
For example, when I call my cardiologist for a check-up, they give me a date as much as two weeks away. If I call and report symptoms of a problem, they work me in within 48 hours or so. Similarly, when my primary physician wanted me to have an colonoscopy when I was diagnosed with anemia, she had her staff call the gastroentrologist’s office and get it scheduled quickly. If I had called on my own and said I just wanted a colonoscopy because I had reached the age when I should have a baseline test, they would have doubtless made me wait longer.
The quote does not impress me that there is a major problem with wait times in America comparable to the wait time issues in canada.

Danita, now I remember why I used to try to just ignore you. My cursory research tells me that we do not have a great deal of information on wait times in the United States BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE SIGNIFICANT WAIT TIME PROBLEMS. At least, the medical literature I have skimmed says that statistics are hard to come by for that reason. For example, when you try to research wait times for cath procedures, you find articles about the importance of reducing waiting time for patients from the time they arrive at the cath lab until the time the balloon is inserted. There are no major discussions of how to get the patients into the cath labs in fewer days, indicating that this is not a major issue here as it is in Canada.
In Canada, there are websites on how to reduce your wait time, provided by the government. In Canada, there are private websites devoted to how to reduce your wait time as well. We do not have similar services here and Occam’s Razor tells me that the reason we do not is because this is not a problem here as it is there.
So now I suppose you will crow that you have “proven” that I can’t make claims about wait times in Canada being a problem that we in America should want to avoid rather than embrace. Fine by me.

moderate . .. .
Wait time in the United States to see a dermatologist to examine that suspicious (cancerous?) mole: 38 days
Source: Business Week
“we do not have a great deal of information on wait times in the United States BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE SIGNIFICANT WAIT TIME PROBLEMS” posted by moderate.
Waiting 38 days to have a suspicious mole is not a wait period?
You’re making up information again moderate . .. as opposed to posting facts.
Where are the figures for wait times for procedures in the United States? If they’re so GOOD, post them.

danita what is your point?

When you talk about wait times here in the US and in Canada, is that the average wait time for these procedures for anybody who needs them? -whether you have insurance or not; or is it just the wait time for people who have insurance in a country where everybody has insurance compared to here where alot of people don’t have insurance and could wait forever for a relatively simple but prohibitively expensive procedure that their counterpart in Canada might wait awhile for but will eventually get? I think if you try and factor in the wait times of the people that don’t have insurance the infinities will play havoc with the averages. When calculating wait times it’s best to disregard people who don’t have insurance.

Gotta love how Obama started telling us what healthcare “reform” would and would not do — before the legislation was even written. Maybe someone should ask him if he’s actually read any of the three versions that just came out of committees on the Hill, before he makes any more feckless promises.

danita – “Time to see an orthopedic surgeon for that painful, inflamed knee: 43 days in Los Angeles” – You are talking about a city with a significant illegal population – that makes a difference.

The Commonwealth Fund study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost.
If you thik this is a problem then how does what is being proposed by congress solve this? No one is saying changes/improvements aren’t needed, there is lots of room for improvements. Pointing out every wart and wrinkle in the system doesn’t move us closer to a solutuion. What improvements would you suggest.

“What and no systemized collection of data on wait times?’
================================
Danita,
Is that kind of like Obama inventing the undefined term “saved job” and then running to every microphone available to tell us how many jobs he will “create/save” with the great “Stimulator”, and then we have no data to back up any claims!
This Healthcare bill is joke! It is not a plan at all, only a BS guideline that passes the buck on ALL real decisions! If they passed it today, you will not be able to purchase the so-called plan for many months.

In ou state where there is a LARGE population of illegals, it is a well known practice that if you REALLY have a true emergency, you call the paramedics or call for an ambulance otherwise you sit in pain for hours waiting for assistance in the emergency room…you see the public emergency rooms are used for standard medical care for they can’t be legally turned away it is always standing room only…As well as a larger portion of our doctors each day are no longer excepting PUBLIC health insurance in the form of MediCal or MediCare…too much hassle in the name of government red tape…

If you REALLY have a true emergency There is a LARGE population of illegals, it is a well known practice.Most practices will “fit” you in if you have a true need.

Very informative post really i enjoyed too much thanks for sharing……..