POTUS: ‘Everybody Just Step Back for a Moment’

“It will mean lower costs, more choices, and coverage you can count on. It will save you and your family money. You won’t have to worry about being priced out of the market. You won’t have to worry about one illness leading to your family going into financial ruin,” he said, “Americans will have coverage that finally has stability and security. And Americans who don’t have health insurance will finally have affordable, quality options.”
Mr. President,
Perhaps YOU shouild READ the Bill that Waxman has created!
There is NO plan coming from that bill, it is a poorly written guidline at best!
Why dont you bring forth Kathleen Sebelius and have her EXPALIN to the American people exactly HOW she is going to create your so-called plan?
After all, according to the bill, that is her task now!

Forget about getting it done correctly, so long as it’s done NOW!

Mike_C, there are about four different bills with different stuffs in them. These all get approved by their committees, then put together in each huose. During that process a lot of that kind of stuff is addressed. After both houses pass the bills, then the have a reconciliation session with both houses to put the bills together and add in further details and specifics, and then finally vote on it.
You’re basically complaining that a bill is incomplete during a pahse in which it isn’t supposed to be complete yet.

Obama promises to have press conferences every day until health care passes. And, that is different from what he was doing before how?
Yawn, the shiny has rubbed off.

Obama will not be satisfied until he has thoroughly and permanently ruined our economy and turned the US into a useless 3rd world country.
His own democrat hired CBO director plainly told congress this will cause unparalleled damage and result in mega taxes on everyone.
His own dem CBO plainly told congress costs would be higher not lower with the public system, as it always has been when the gov’t takes over.
The CBO has not even calculated the administrative costs into the projected cost, and we know that with medicaid that the gov’t administrative costs are 66% higher than the private sector,
No poll shows majority support for this
This is utter insanity if you actually care about health care and the economy.
Obama does not care what is right he is hell bent on destroying a country he hates, the US.

Please, Mr.Obama, practice what you preach. Your well worn line (yawn—we heard it 100 times in your campaign) that parents need to step up and be examples to their children by reading to them and putting away the video games, is underpinned by the notion that we must set an example.
Please sign a pledge that you, Mechelle, and your daughters will abide by whatever health plan you craft for all of us. No frills. No extras. No boutique medical care.

WOOT President Obama and Vice President Biden! I love these guys!

I guess all the above are the naysayers that the president was talking about………

Obama the politics of fear. Remember the fear mongering over the wastfull stimulis funds.
Obama you will not save us from ourselves if you don’t get your way so quit throwing a temper tantrum
This country has been around for over 200 years and to be honest. Obama has done more damage to our country and spent more money in less than 6 months than any other president.

Americans that still don’t “want” or “get” healthcare reform, read these words until they sink into your thick skulls: The U.S. is the only western industrialized nation without a national health system. Why is that so hard to fathom. Duh!

So both the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association backs this reform – interesting.
Leave it to health professionals to not understand health care enough to appreciate what the extremists on the right are ranting about.
Posted by: danita | Jul 17, 2009 5:44:46 PM
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These are union like membership organizations and do not represent the majority of health care professionals. In fact until recently even the AMA did not support this lousy rationed health care.
So the question is did Obama bribe or threaten.
The nurses association, of which I am a former member, is just another democrat advocacy group, which is why I quit years ago.
Just like AARP who at first were happy about Bush’s pharmacy benefit that made drugs available and affordable, until the dems told them to SHUT UP.
WE are a physician/nurse household and don’t know any professional who supports this lousy plan.
So I ask again, did Obama bribe or threaten, or both to get these endorsements from the leaders of these groups, not the rank and file.
This is no different that other unions who throw 100% of their support and dollars behind dems even if the rank and file vote otherwise.

I for one am glad he continues to push, especially with regard to the core principles he feels the bill must address: guaranteed choice for individuals, quality care for all, reduced individual costs, and Congressional budget neutrality over the next decade.
I’m not sure how anyone can oppose those goals. Differing on the means is OK, but the details of the means are still being negotiated.
From my perspective, it’s actually refreshing to hear our president adamant about meaningful outcomes for this country.

Differing on the means is OK, but the details of the means are still being negotiated. Posted by: tsdc7 | Jul 17, 2009 5:54:24 PM
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You poor thing…

AS I SEE IT, by Mainer Mike Brown.
I hope everybody can get health insurance in this country so I can leave my lousy job.
The health insurance is why I keep my job.

Didn;t Obama also predict the military surge in Iraq would be disastrous and make things worse in Iraq.
. If i were a betting man. I would bet just the opposite of what Obama says.
Obama is going crazy.

“Americans that still don’t “want” or “get” healthcare reform, read these words until they sink into your thick skulls: The U.S. is the only western industrialized nation without a national health system. Why is that so hard to fathom. Duh!”
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The US is the only western industrialized nation that doesn’t have RATIONED health care. Apparently someone’s thick skull can’t absorb the concept that government will be controlling accessibility and quality of care. If you like the Post Office and the DMV, you’re gonna love Obamacare.

The problem with health care IS insurance. If caps were put on what doctors and hospitals could charge for various procedures, etc, and the prices were such that people could AFFORD to go and seek medical care when they needed it we wouldn’t need insurance. Now I and many others are keeping the middleman rich. It’s absolutely insane. If we need more family care physicians in rural areas, make it lucrative to doctors to set up practices by paying off their student loans for a guaranteed amount of service, ie seven years (totally arbitratry number). Allow more students to attend medical school in the United States. Has anyone else ever wondered why we have so many doctors from foreign countries. The method that’s being proposed by the democrats is a recipe for failure. You cannot tax the rich just because they are rich and the taxation of our medical benefits is only going to drive up the cost. Will somebody in Washington please wake up and smell the coffee.

You Go! President Obama!

This year is too late. There’s a difference between health care — and insurers interfering with it.

Health care is expensive because of insurance. The actually cost of health care is not.

I would like the POTUS to retrace my steps for the last 12 months with health insurance; it was better before they got involved. They make me sick! It’s called PTSD From iatrogenesis

To all the naysayers and those that see only a democrat conspiracy in a health care plan, the time may surely come when you or a loved one are denied coverage by your insurer for pre-existing condition, or for whatever reason they can come up with, (too expensive)and your life changes because you can’t afford health care, I wonder if you may then feel maybe President Obama may have been on the right track.

He sounds like a dictator. Keep the change, baby.

I hope the democrats don’t attempt to ram this through congress and down our throats. They’re in lala land if they think they just make spending cuts in medicare and medacaid, then tax rich people. Since when is the government ever been known to be efficient?
We’re 2 trillion in the hole and the government wants to spend another 1.5 trillion for healthcare? If that’s not bad enough, you force the insurance companies to compete with a government plan, immune from profit, who’s job it is to reduce the costs for the whole healthcare industry by being cheap! Talk about a conflict of interest! With an average profit margin of 4% per premium, what do you think is going to happen?
Let’s not forget about the new big brother regulations that force small companies to provide healthcare, or else. What do you think that’s going to do when 75% of jobs are created by small businesses? You stifle their growth or drive them out of business. This is an economic disaster waiting to happen.

I read a magazine article today dated October 2008. In it, Michelle (Obama’s wife) was quoted as saying ‘If you want less taxes and less government, my husband is your man’. Yeah, right. Heard ya.

Slimebama- I’m not sure where you are getting your information, but I know physicians in European countries as well as hospital administrators. You need to quit buying into the lies you’re being told. The European system is far better than what we have in the U.S. and I know no one, from Canada or Europe, who would trade their system for ours. The majority of Americans voted for Obama. One of the platforms he ran on in the 2008 election was health care reform. He is doing exactly what he promised and the majority of Americans are behind him.

Yes Obama has finally lost it…he wants to ram HC reform down our throats..basically just adding costs to administer and re-distrubte the services we have now..using his own (federal beaureacrats) priorities rather than Dr.s and individuals chosing.
If the problem is the costs are too high and therefore people can;t afford it…how is the solution throwing even more overhead/govt admin on the system??
How many more hospitals/Drs and caregivers does this plan have increasing over the current rate of growth…the key is to grow the supply of caregivers and facilities faster than the demand…and that will bring costs down naturally through competition..today we have too few caregivers and too many needing care…thats the real problem…solve that Mr. President….but then again you could never understand free market principles.

“Americans that still don’t “want” or “get” healthcare reform, read these words until they sink into your thick skulls: The U.S. is the only western industrialized nation without a national health system. Why is that so hard to fathom. Duh!”
So “nationalized = good”
“privatized = bad” (???)

Liberal utopia has it that everyone deserves top quality HC regardless…that’s fantasyland and socilaist heaven. The constitution doesn;t say that HC is a fundamental right of every American ..no more than having your own home or car or food on the table every evening is….you have to EARN IT!!!….get use to that liberals…earning something rather than having the government giving you something…might be a new concept for all of you.

“People who dislike him criticize him for being a “dictator” (absurd) one minute and “ineffective” (untrue) the next. The fact that both criticisms show up suggests that the critics are the confused ones- they just can’t handle a powerful, successful Democratic liberal in office. Get used to it.”
Ummm….He’s ineffective because of his liberal.socialist/marxist policies (see auto bailout and “stimulus” package)

The POTUS/TOTUS “adopted a stern tone.” Ooooooooo. Soooo scary. What’s scary, people, is the $544 BILLION + price tag (payable by future generations) that this mess will cost. “Budget neutral”? Right. House members got pounded over the 4th of July break by constituents who are mad as HELL about the cap and tax vote. They had better get with the program and vote AGAINST Obama’s latest lab experiment. Fix only what needs fixin’, and leave the rest of it alone.

Ipeach Obama, Palosi, Reed, Frank, Dodd!

“The President made a promise to the American people that he would do everything in his power to get healthcare reform. He’s doing it. Who cares if he’s annoyed with Congress? And what’s wrong with him having a point of view and aggressively working to get it done? People who dislike him criticize him for being a “dictator” (absurd) one minute and “ineffective” (untrue) the next. The fact that both criticisms show up suggests that the critics are the confused ones- they just can’t handle a powerful, successful Democratic liberal in office. Get used to it.” Posted by: John | Jul 17, 2009 6:25:13 PM
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Try to to be too concerned John, there are a small number of people who have it as their hobby to come on here and smear virtually everything the President or the Democrats do. The President can’t even take his kids for ice cream without them being on his back. So, it becomes pretty transparent.

I have been a nurse for 35 years and this plan of his is the most absurb plan ever. You are aware that he will not say that he would put his own family on this national plan and Congress will not put themselves on it and consider themselves exempt. I have many, many friends in Canada and their plan sucks. They have to wait and wait for their healthcare and it’s quality is questionable.
Friends Obama has no clue as to what he is doing with healthcare. It was part of his presidential election plan for just that reason…to get elected. He and his family will not have to use it.

The hard stuff is how are we going to pay for it all? I don’t think the President really promised to bankrupt the nation in his campaign speeches.

Our system actually works fine. 40 million uninsured means that there are 250 million insured people. The 40 million doesn’t include medicare and medicaid. That reduces the number significantly if you also take out the illegal aliens out of the equation too.
The rest of the people opt not to have healthcare by their own free will. We are a free country and that is their choice.
It is not the government’s place to manage our healthcare. It’s especially obscene for the government to enter the free market and ruthlessly undercut american insurance corporations in an attempt to control costs.
The rising cost of healthcare is basic supply and demand. The baby boomers are in their 50s and 60s. This supply of sick people has spawned a huge market for medical and biochemical innovation. We’re not the standard of the world in medical technology. If you undercut these costs, you destroy the American pride that comes from innovation.

It is really presumptuous of Pres. Obama to think that logical, well-thoughtout health care reform can be accomplished in a month or two. What is the hurry?????? Better to have a good plan than to try to ramrod something through and learn how much we have to pay for it later. Let’s take our time and come up with a good, sensible plan.

Yes, Obama is trying to do what he said before that he wanted to do. That’s not the real question concerning universal health care.
The fundamental issue on which some Democrats agree with Republicans is how to pay for Obama’s health care reform.
The Democratic Congressional leadership has ridiculed the CBO director for saying it looks like the health plans would increase – not decrease – government spending as Obama has said.
Democrats helped to appoint the director of the Congressional Budget Ofc. The Democrats defended the CBO’s criticism of Bush era budgets.
But, now that the CBO is questioning a major Democrat initiative, the CBO is suddenly not bipartisan?

Do you haters STILL not understand that the Medicare Prescription coverage bill that your “leader” ::cough::cough:: shoved through congress will cost more than the US Gross National Product within the next generation. (That means that just the Medicare prescription benefit would cost MORE than all the money the US could make each year.) And Bush never bothered to discuss where the funding for this benefit would come from.
Just standing around saying, “No” to any possible solutions is easy. Coming up with viable alternatives, not so much.
If you haters out there don’t like the proposal from the Democrats, then turn off your browsers, turn on your word processing programs and start writing letters to the Republicans in congress telling them that you’re sick and tired of nothing but partisan bickering, and you want them to get their butts in gear NOW, and start coming up with a realistic, viable plan of their own that they can use to debate the issue.
Sitting here calling Obama a “socialist” accomplishes nothing.

Nancy, we’ve been “taking our time” regarding health reform in this country for decades.
Every president eventually tabled the idea because it was too hard to try to come up with anything different.
Obama understands that “time” has run out.
We simply can’t afford to put this off any longer.

My guess its only the elite that will be allowed to drink soon since the government will put laws against the sheep being able to drink soda. Then there will be the anti exhale tax. God knows you are a source of green house gas. DOES ANYONE CARE? Nope guess not.

We’ll see about that . . . as the old saying goes: You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. I believe even some of his most rabid cult members are seeing through him.

Health care reform is truly important. You can cite the numbers (50 million uninsured, tens of thousands undergoing rescissions, etc.), but when you feel the pain of individual stories, you know how desperate people are.
The health care cartel and insurance companies will pour hundreds of millions into ads and lobbyists to keep this from happening. They don’t care about hurting people. All they care about is big bonuses and glutted profits.
And Congress has the cushiest health care plan around. Why should they care about ordinary people?
The only answer is for all of us to stand up and shout. And the only reform will be a public option. Anything else will just be another Medicare Drug Plan written by the companies with its huge donut hole and skyrocketing drug and insurance prices.
If ordinary people don’t fight for health care and vote against those in the pockets of the big lobbies, health care reform will not happen.

the suggestion that haters come up with their own plan is a straw man argument. If Obama wanted alternaive plans he could have hundreds of them. The fact is he has dictated then main terms, and he has final say. The solution he is proposing compounds our problems enormously.

SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE NOW!

Healthcare reform was never going to be easy with all the powerful self-interest Washington lobby groups so determined to do everything possible to maintain the status quo. Think about it, who wins if the President’s plans fails? I think President Obama should be congratulated and supported in his efforts to bring about real change. I hope he succeeds. Great presidents take on the greatest challenges.

danita Canada has problems with the cost of their health care as well. They are frequently under staffed and their is rationing going on. Is that what you want? Rationed health care? Why are you here in the US? Good question? Is it because you could not get work in Canada? Do you have health care? We here do have health care. Sometimes it costs to much but nothing Obama is doing is going to fix any of the real problems. The real problem is based on TORT reform. HOW many law suits in Canada health care? Can you even sue them?

Jaylah
We simply cant afford to do health care with a weak economy either. We are WAY WAY in debt and the tax receipts are going DOWN. And guess what.. Oil is going down. Why would that be? Demand is lower. Why is that? Because we are not working and we are not producing which means we are so close to a depression to through more burden on this economy is malfeasance.

When something needs to be fixed and made more efficient, the Federal Gov. is the last place you want to go. They have never fixed anything and are incapable of efficiency. Once we turn over healthcare to the government you can kiss our economy goodbye. Lets hope there are still enough sane people around to shut this thing down before it’s too late.

JAB – there are not 50mn uninsured. There are about 10mn illegal aliens who are uninsured and should stay that way. There are perhaps 12min who make sufficient money to buy health care, but choose to spend their money elsewere, there are also about the same number who are eligible for Schips and Medicaid but have not signed up for it. There may be as many as 5mn who are truly the working poor – uninsured and in need. I’d be happy to help them out – 2% of the population, I might add. It wouldn’t cost an arm and a leg to help them out. We do not need single payer a/k/a rationed health care.

We are not entitled to anything except the conseqences of our own actions. That is how a free nation works. A workable government sets general boundaries and allows people to govern themselves. Without tax burdens and stifiling overregulation, companies can grow and create wealth for everyone. If a market or industry fails, we take responsibility for our own actions, pick ourselves up and go forward. Freedom comes at a price. We have to take responsibility for our actions.
The government loves be the solution to everything, but in reality they are too often the problem.

This sounds like another entitlement program. After a healthcare package, why don’t we pass a jobs package so we can all be entitled to jobs as well? The real healthcare reform will come when the unhealthy come healthy, and all of the healthy pay into the system but don’t use it. when we don’t use it, the laws of supply and demand will kick in and prices will go down. Until then, there won’t be any reform. There will only be entitlements that, like social security and medicare, that will eventually become bankrupt.

and to the republican clowns who claim that Canada’s tax rates are 56%.. really? In which Province? What absolute balderdash.
Our corporate tax rates are actually lower.
Stop slamming my country-if you want to remain the richest country in the world without healthcare for the poor, so be it. Don’t drag Canada into it.
Americans are wise people who are fooled by Republicans into believing lies instead of statistics.
Calling people names… while poor people in your country have no healthcare and die prematurely is absolutely dreadful.

To all the posters who are posting about Canada’s system-again use statistics. Our infant mortality rate is lower, our life expectancy is higher. So health care is rationed? Big deal. It doesn’t mean you die waiting for healthcare-more people die in the US waiting for healthcare. It means if you need a knee operation you wait. If you need a heart operation, you get it immediately.
In your country, if a poor person needs a knee operation, they usually don’t get it. Which is a more equitable system?
To those opposed to the Canadian system-look at the statistics, and stop making ignorant comments about Canada. Good grief. I cannot believe how misinformed some americans are and how brainwashed they are by the republicans.

CUBA has a better infant mortality rate than the US. It has a higher life expectancy. It has better healthcare outcomes.
Good grief-please get informed instead of watching the republican news channel.
Wake up people.

ChicagBob . . .
I think health care reform is going to go through. Obama was elected on a promise of reform of health care and provision of health care for the many currently left out. It was a major platform plank. I think Obama will do whatever is possible to make it work.

CUBA has a better infant mortality rate than the US
Tom >>> Tom so you trust the numbers out of Cuba? LOL You guys are to funny. That would be like trusting Russia to tell us the truth. DOH I forgot you probably thing they do that as well. You never lived under communism. Try it sometime and you can take a look as whats real.

danita
Obama is not God and so far he has messed up more than he has fixed. And you want more messed up government? You are free to move anywhere in the world and get as much of that as you want. PLEASE if you want better health care make that your goal. Obamacare doesnt FIX anything. It doesnt even INSURE everyone. GET A CLUE.

Tom – The UN’s wholly owned propaganda machine WHO always shows US infant mortality rates to be lower than many other countries because we include stillbirths and late miscarriages which the other countries do not. How could a rational thinking person actually believe that Cuba has better health care than the US? That place has been under despotic rule for more than 50 years and there is no incentive for anyone to do better than another. People leave in boats to get out of that dump. I hope you never have a serious illness, but if you do, stay out of Cuba.

I’ve been advocating for a national, universal health-care system for over 25 years, and it’s long past time that Americans receive one. Scare-mongering tactics by the right involving the Canadian and British systems ignore the fact that Canadians and Brits wouldn’t exchange their systems for ours for any reason. I know Canadians, Brits, French, Italians, Japanese, Scandinavians, and Dutch who think we’re out of our minds, and since I benefited from one of those systems while living abroad, I cannot help but agree.
I’d be delighted to fork over, in the form of taxes, the large sum that my husband and I now pay, through our employers, in order to get health insurance, for a system that would be there for us in the event of job loss and wouldn’t reject us for pre-existing conditions. My colleagues abroad don’t have to worry that if they lose their jobs, they will also lose their health insurance, and they don’t have to pay ridiculous COBRA fees that the unemployed can’t afford to keep that insurance OR apply to even more expensive private insurers that can reject them for even minor pre-existing conditions. Their insurance is there whether they are employed or not.
By the way, Barack, the photo with one of the Gilbert Stuart portraits of Washington in the background isn’t bad. Who set that up?

Hey, Tom from Canada,
How would your system work if you were giving health care to illegal aliens? Obama is including them in his wonderful plan…..
I understand Canada doesn’t allow that. I suppose you are willing to take half of ours, right?

Obama acts like the American people are flush with extra cash. He’s essentially saying the same thing about healthcare that he said about the stimulus bill, and we all know how well thats working out.

How dare the POTUS lecture and preach about responsibility, when he is the ultimate example of irresponsibility!! His own arrogance and sense of entitlement has gotten us absolutely NOTHING but unacceptable debt and unemployment in just 6 short months. He is too stubborn and clueless to even listen to people from both parties and independents who are sincerely warning him of the dangerous path he is on. That is the mark of a serious disorder!!

IF OBAMA was so sure his program was the RIGHT thing to do why is it being RAMMED THROUGH? BECAUSE its ALL A LIE TO TAKE MORE CONTROL. Thats why. ITS not about helping ANYONE
Posted by: ChicagBob | Jul 17, 2009 8:07:53 PM
Exactly! They don’t want to give the time that the American Public needs is reading just how far reaching this bill is.
For this to pass, the longer the INFORMATION on this bill can be kept hidden, the better.

There was a CBO report that came out in 2007 that stated that the cost of the Iraqi war was going to cost 2.7 trillion dollars in 10 years and the GOP didn’t start screaming like stuck pigs about cost. The GOP are using the cost of this program like a drunk husband trying to justify the cost of his drinking by telling his wife ‘food’ is too expensive. This is a needed expense. I am angry that all the ‘rich’ people that are ‘crying’ about being stuck with the expense of this program they have avoided paying taxes for the past eight years, and I hope that every body has learned a very valuable lesson that tax cuts create asset bubbles that destroy wealth. We need a health care program in this country, not another tax cut.

To ChicagoBob and all the other Fox Transcriptionists: the line about Canadians coming to the US for healthcare is so ridiculously misleading it’s at the top of the laughable list. Why? Because those coming here are the wealthiest Canadians. Your argument suggests that IF healthcare reform happened, all of a sudden we’d no longer have the best doctors. You can be sure that there is more than enough money in the US to keep all the best and highest paid physicians here. That ain’t gonna change. To suggest otherwise is a clumsy rhetorical trick. Nothing more…

I hope this health care bill blows up. The federal government is who caused the problem in the first place. Why does anyone think they can “fix” it?

If he gets the climate bill and healthcare, the democrat majority in congress ends in 2010. The conservative democrats representing conservative districts are already reading the tea leaves, and they’ll vote accordingly because they’re politicians.

Tom, dear, I think you are a tad confused. You admonish folks, “Good grief-please get informed instead of watching the republican news channel.” And yet you seem to be getting your information from Michael Moore. You need to join the line of people who need to educate themselves, I think.
You wrote, “CUBA has a better infant mortality rate than the US. It has a higher life expectancy. It has better healthcare outcomes.” Funny, I get my information from a variety of sources. And Lancet reports in the past year have told me that the US has the best cancer survival rates in the world– that would translate to a better healthcare outcome, I would think. Cuba’s higher life expectancy is due to the fact that the figures being used to determine it talk about deaths from all causes, including those that are unaffected by health care reform. That is, as we discussed in another thread earlier this week, Americans are far more likely to die young from violence or accident (including auto accidents) than any other people in the world, which skews our life expectancy. That is indeed a shame, but not something that passing health care reform in any form will change. This figure being tossed about does not reflect a lower quality of health care than Cuba or any other nation.
Concerning infant mortality, I found this from an ABC News website story, which explains one reason (I am not claiming it is the only one) that America’s infant mortality figures are rising: “‘But there are a number of factors that could contribute,’ said Dr. William A. Engle, neonatologist with the Indiana University School of Medicine in Indianapolis. ‘The number of babies born pre-term has increased in general, and pre-term populations are at a higher risk for morbidity and mortality,’ Engle said. Births of two or more babies are often associated with prematurity, and, Engle said, ‘the number of multiple births has increased.’ Some of these multiple births are the result of fertility drugs and in-vitro fertilization procedures. Engle explained that while a normal, healthy gestation period is 40 weeks, because of the increased number of pre-term deliveries, the gestation period in the United States now averages just 39 weeks. “The 34- to 37-week gestation group has increased over the last 10 years,” he said. “There are fewer births after 40 weeks than there were even a few years ago.”"
So think of it this way. If a woman goes into premature labor in Cuba or many other countries at, say, 32 weeks, and gives birth to a two pound baby, the lack of advanced neonatal facilities mean that baby will not survive, but it will be counted as a miscarriage or stillbirth. If it is not a live birth,
it does not count toward infant mortality rates– no live birth, no death of a live baby. In the US, on the other hand, usually heroic measures will be attempted to save the child’s life. It will be counted as a live birth. An astonishing number of such babies actually do survive long-term. But many more die within hours, and are thus counted as a live birth and the death of a live baby, thus raising our infant morality rate. As a source used in numerous websites puts it (so I cannot correctly attribute it to its original author at this time), the US leads the world in an “odd category”– the number of babies who die on the first day of their lives.
So don’t lecture me about educating myself and the quality of the sources of my information, when you labor under the delusion, apparently, that health care in Cuba is superior to health care in the United States. I will take my chances in this country, thanks all the same. And I will continue to watch Fox News (which I assume is the source you refer to as the ‘republican news network’), CNN, CSpan, CNBC, and anything else I want on the television as well as all the print and web sources I please, because I use my own critical thinking skills to evaluate the information I receive from these sources.

Doing nothing on health care is a great idea compared to what has been proposed. Doing nothing would have been better than doing the stimulus which costs us $100 million per day in interest with zero benefit. Doing nothing on Cap and Trade is lightyears better than adopting that job killing plan. The argument that something has to be done doesn’t cut it with me because it all depends on what the something is you’re talking about. Just saying “at least he’s doing something” is about the weakest support you can offer. Think hard about everything that has been proposed, the massive new bureacracy, the tax increases, the transfer from private to public system, multiple layers of new and redundant federal boards and regulators and political appointees having a large new stake in your private affairs, and then tell me that this is what you asked for, and tell me that it’s the ONLY solution.

Obama needs to explain his math a lot better. He and Pelosi have more gyrations than Ma and Pa Kettle did in explaing math.
Their numbers cost Trilions and yield little or no long term savings.
He needs to stand back and let some folks check his calucations.

I hear so much about “Obama said the unemployment rate won’t rise above 8.5%, now its at 9.5%–he’s a liar”. No what he is not is GOD. His advisors I’m sure did not anticipate unemployment to rise this high–My God, they are only human. Have you been held to every vowel of every syllable of every word you have ever uttered because you guessed wrong and couldn’t see the future? You’re trying to judge a man by the minute instead of by the result of his work. How many times in the last 100 years has a recession of this magnitude occurred. Not a lot of experience out there to go by. And remember Obama was a Senator when this recession began. Lets see now…who was the President…when…
Posted by: CitizenMikeM | Jul 17, 2009 8:37:57 PM
I guess that’s why these experts are mulling over ANOTHER huge stimulus package. They’re only human and since the first stimulus did not deliver then they’ll just try, try again hoping to turn things around.
Here in Ohio the “reported” unemployment rate came out at 11.1% this morning. Plus, this doesn’t include the cuts in hours for the employed.
If this bill passes expect 9.5% to look absolutely delightful. Raising taxes on the wealthy (business owners) is not only going to prolong this recession but will lead to SKYROCKETING unemployment. This doesn’t even include the soon to pass double whammy known as Cap & Trade.
I hope this economy gets better but imposing massive new taxes during a deep recession will only lead to drastically less job development.

The status quo is ok and the result of this new bill will be ???? what exactly. More unemployment, higher taxes, worse quality healthcare, abuse of the system afterward, corruption at all levels of government, endless beauracracy, et al just like the stimulus. Obama we wont bet against you because even if it passes it will be the same type of knock out punch to the democratic party as the one you dealt the republicans when you were elected. It will be your ‘mission accomplished’ and when the people cry out that it didnt work only you and your administration will be to blame for not giving it enough thought and having restraint. They will see it as being robbed and start calling a bottle of milk a bottle of milk.

opposition scare tactics.
Posted by: CitizenMikeM | Jul 17, 2009 9:11:47 PM
Laura Tyson a member of 0bama’s Economic team and congressional Democrats are providing “opposition scare tactics”?
Must be that “Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” one again rearing it’s ugly head.

Seems like everyone’s a critic…until their own medical emergency…then they suddenly find out their “coverage” is only worth 5-10k per year…but their bills are several times that…Or discover one of their loved ones will need several thousand dollars worth of meds per month to keep them alive…I wonder how many would stand by their convictions in these circumstances?…Would refuse federal medical care in the name of politics…or would tell their loved ones “too bad”, you should have better insurance…Everybody wants access to health care, but no one wants to pay for it…We will all “pay for it”, one way or another…My opinion is that a large chunk of this money needs to go to PREVENTION and helping Americans live HEALTHIER in the first place.

And they called Bush arrogant?? Health care reform will bankrupt this contry, and bankrupting this country is what Obama is all about. Obama must produce his long form birth certificate. He is an illegal president!

How many seniors posting to this thread also have a problem with the Bush administrations “multi-billion dollar” Medicare prescription drug benefit?…On a side note- try looking for Obama’s birth certificate in Roswell, NM – you should fit right in with the rest of the “loony-toons”…

“And they called Bush arrogant??” Posted by: maureen barbour | Jul 17, 2009 9:29:48 PM
________________________________________
Arrogant? President Obama ran on health care reform, it was a major part of his platform.
Attempting to deliver on campaign promises is now ‘arrogance’?

Hi Stacy…Thanks for your “deep” insight into the matter…And if ALL Americans had your profound “common sense”…There wouldn’t BE a health care discussion…since everyone would be as perfectly healthy as I’m sure you are…Clearly that’s not the case, as any walk down a city street or shopping mall will prove.

1enlightened, it’s called priorities. Perhaps you haven’t noticed but at the moment we’re in a deep recession with record high job losses and home foreclosures. And it’s getting worse by the week. We don’t have a healthcare crisis. We have a JOBS crisis. Healthcare means very little to desperate people who have run out of unemployment insurance and can no longer afford basics like food and shelter.

Stacey . .. .
Are you kidding? Health care means an awful lot to those who have just lost their job and their health care with it!

What does the government run well? And you people want them to decide what sort of treatment you will have should you come down with a life threatening disease. Or even something less devastating than that will still be “managed” by a government run committee. If you love the Post Office and the DMV, you will love Obamacare.

To all the people on here stating that this reorganization of medical care is going to be an improvement, I have one simple question:
Have you actually read any of it? I’m talking about looking into some of the provisions that are neatly tucked away inside one of the 1018 pages. If you take the time and delve into it, unlike members of congress who will no doubt vote on it without even flipping through it, you will find some very troubling mandates contained within.
I cannot post the specifics because apparently that runs counter to this blog in providing too much information.
Let me just say that the government directives on health care benefits and services is very profound. (putting it mildly)

Gretchenmom – You said “I have heard so many horror stories about Medicare that I was really scared when I retired 3 years ago. I have to say, none of those nightmare stories came true.”
The service may be to your satisfaction but the problem is that Medicare is set to go broke in a short number of years as it is not self-sustaining under the current method of funding. Either they have to cut the benefits or increase the taxes to make it self-sustaining. The money problem is the big horror story with Medicare that nobody wants to talk about.

danita – You said “Arrogant? President Obama ran on health care reform, it was a major part of his platform.
Attempting to deliver on campaign promises is now ‘arrogance’?”
Yes it is arrogant when the CBO has said after their first look at the bill that it will not reduce costs and will more than likely increase costs in the long run. They have also atated that the current bill is not self-sustaining as it is written and will require additional government funding. They have also stated that the deficit spending by the federal government is unsustainable.
One of the provisions in the healthcare bill is to add a large number of citizens who do not currently have healthcare to Medicaide. The major problem with this approach is that the federal government makes the cost of the bill appear cheaper than what it really is due to the fact that a large portion of Medicaide funding comes from the states not the federal government. If you recall many of the states are currently looking for ways to close the deficits in their own bugets and this federal mandate will only make the states deficits bigger and the only way out is to increase state taxes to cover the deficit.
Yes, I think it is arrogant to make statements like this on a bill which is so clearly the wrong bill at this time.
The first thing they should be doing is addressing tort reform. Oh wait Congress is mostly lawyers and they can’t do anything to harm their fellow crooks. After the effects of tort reform are seen then address the next problem in a sensible way in a manner which will save money (costs) and be self sustaining throughout its lifetime as we cannot add any more to the federal debt.
In his first 170 days in office Obama has increased the debt of the government by 901.25 Billion dollars. At this rate he will increase the debt of the Government by 1.82 Trillion dollars in his first year alone and 7.74 Trillion dollars by the end of his 4 year term in office. If he is elected for a second term with the same rate of spending then the government debt will increase by 15.48 Trillion dollars. Since the debt owed by the Government was 10.6 Trillion dollars when he took office an additional 7.74 Trillion will almost double the debt in just 4 years to 18.34 Trillion dollars and at the end of his second term it will have increased to an unthought of 26.08 Trillion dollars. The interest alone on this amount of debt will consume more than half of the entire federal budget. This does not even include what Obama wants to put into healthcare which has been estimated may actually cost upwards of 1.6 Billion dollars by the Congressional Budget Office.

danita
Arrogant? YES for trying to do it in 30 days. Its a joke. You are going to fix the entire complex health care system and create tons of new agencies and do it will in 30 days. Thats total ARROGANCE YES IT IS

Do I really trust for profit insurance companies to give me the best medical care possible – or might they actually be somewhat interested in minimizing their costs and maximizing their profits?
Posted by: danita | Jul 17, 2009 11:05:16 ***************************************
But the government won’t care about minimizing costs?
HELLO? Anyone in there?
Does the term “Rationed Care” mean anything to you?
In every example of socialized medicine, care is rationed.
Tucked away in the pages of this mandate is a formula for determining eligibility for care. If you are 68, and your life expectancy is 78, you may not get that knee replacement, or hernia surgery.

I was wondering where Mr. Tapper’s always entertaining Q and A from today’s press briefing was, but I found out elsewhere on the net that there was no press briefing today. Why? It was canceled and replaced by the president’s hastily arranged presentation of the statement we’re discussing in this post. No questions, no correspondents, just cameras– just the way the president likes to operate. He’s ready for his close-up, Mr. DeMille.

I’m report the news at a small independent radio station. I’m amazed at how frequently I read stories – mere days apart – that talk about the incredible inefficiencies of government run **anything** – and then the gullible masses that want the government to run even more of our lives.
Gerald Ford said it right when he said, “A government big enough to give you everything you WANT, is a government big enough to take everything you have.”
Obamacare is a huge government money-grab and power-grab and Obama is no JFK who said, “Ask not what your country can do for you… ask what you can do for your country.”
Be ware of the nanny state.

Sandcrab1612 -
I was answering the question, “And you people want them to decide what sort of treatment you will have should you come down with a life threatening disease”
———————————-
I wanted to point out that the private insurance companies are picking our treatment, doctors, tests now and that I found Medicare much better to work with. Much of the problem with Medicare is the costs of skyrocketing medical and hospital costs. Something has to be done to deal with the costs.
— Did you know that when Blue Cross Blue Shield started they were non-profit? Also, when I was young – if you paid for two medical insurance plans both had to pay? There is something wrong with a medical system where profit is the driving force. If you bought two life insurance policies..would you not expect them both to pay? If you had two $10,000 policies do you think it is right that each should pay only $5000? I believe much could be done to end this crazy spiral, reduce costs and insure our people.
—Some small Examples of things I have thought about that may or may not help:
1)Take insurance coverage out of the workplace. I think it would save a lot of money for the companies and encourage people to start new businesses. I believe it would increase salaries for employees because they would feel free to change jobs for more money without fear of loosing their insurance and that would increase competition for good workers. It would increase many people’s hours at work since so many companies keep people at a part time basis so they don’t have to pay insurance.
2) Something as simple as catastrophic insurance so people don’t loose everything over an illness, should be cost efficient.
3)Make Med School and nursing school affordable for talented Doctors so they don’t owe thousands of dollars right after leaving school. By doing that and perhaps helping them buy equipment, etc. they could make a good living from day one without having to charge ridiculous prices.
4) Actually deal with limiting law suits so that it will cut mal-practice costs for doctors.
—-
These are just a few simple ideas -there are many, many things that should be looked at – I think Obama is going about it the right way by open discussion and bringing in experts, etc.

Concerned in OH SAID- “I call on Obama to immediately resign before he does anymore damage to this great country.”
———-
DAMAGE – you have to be joking! Your calling so I want to call for a full investigation on the previous administrations lies that got us into Iraq and killed or maimed thousands of our citizens and another countries citizens; the legality of a war in the interest of “nation building” (which is what our previous Vice-President admitted) and the legality of a President and Vice-President not informing congress of what they were doing. After that we can get around to the financial crisis, a chinese owned credit card to pay for the war, etc. etc. If you want to talk about destroying our country…Bush and staff should be your role-models.

You pay on average 50% more for a procedure in the US compared to Canada. Yet your chance of a bad healthcare outcome is higher in the US.
The Canadian system isn’t perfect-but study after study has shown that it is less expensive, and delivers better overall care. Lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy.
People do wait in Canada for surgeries such as hip replacements. However, they do not wait to be seen if they have an urgent immediate healthcare need. If you are homeless or unemployed, you have healthcare coverage and your prescriptions paid over a certain amount.
Would you rather have a less expensive system per capita that has better healthcare outcomes (Canada) or continue with the status quo (the US system)?
Because if you don’t accept some sort of public option that will make the private sector MORE EFFICIENT (the private sector being very inefficient since surgeries in the US cost 50% more than Canada)… or you just let your system become more and more expensive.
Your system is failing middle class americans. There is no doubt if one is rich you should go to the US for the best care. But for most people, it has failed you.
Stop listening to the propoganda of the Republican party. If you don’t fix your healthcare system, your country will go BANKRUPT because your healthcare inflation is out of control.
Your political system is such that if you don’t do a reform now, it won’t take place for a long time.

Things you won’t see in the commercials, just a few gems from this piece of crapola called health care reform.
There are new federal regulations on the rental of power-driven wheelchairs; new government rules on how providers are supposed to treat patients with dementia; and new regulations on smoking cessation, and everything in between.
In addition to the 1,000 pages of new federal regulations on health care, there are multiple taxes including in the bill because the government will need to raise more than $1 trillion to pay for these new regulations.
The bill creates a new government-run health plan that will undercut the private market pushing as many as 119 million people out of their private health insurance and be forced into a Medicaid-like plan. Employers will be pressed to drop their insurance benefits and send their employees over to the new government plan. This provision doesn’t apply to Members of Congress, who will be able to keep their health plan.
The bill will also create a new federal health board, a group of government bureaucrats that will decide whether your health care is effective or not, which could endanger your ability to receive the health care you need.
To pay for the new federal health board, there will be a new “fair share” tax imposed on everyone’s health insurance to raise $375 million needed for the new bureaucracy. The government has not yet decided what your portion will be.
There will be a new “tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.” In other words, if your health insurance isn’t government-approved you will be taxed.

When you ask for government health care you are asking for: the efficiency of the post office, the customer service of the Department of Motor Vehicles, and the compassion of the IRS.
Are you insane??
No government ANYTHING is handled well. Nothing! And this is your LIVES!!
And yes, Obama said he wanted to overhaul healthcare but he said NO SINGLE-PAYER! He also said we would have a chance to look at all bills online for 5 days, that there would be transparency, and there would be no lobbyists involved. ALL LIES!
This is NOT what we were promised. This is all just LIES!

4) Actually deal with limiting law suits so that it will cut mal-practice costs for doctors.
_______________________________________
I’m all for this but first someone has to police the doctors other than other doctors. There are way too many inept, out of touch individuals practicing medicine. There are too many mistakes and too many mishaps. Doctor butcher should not be permitted to practice.
IMHO (for what that is worth) it appears that the boards who police the doctors would rather slap a wrist than take a license because they don’t want to make their colleagues and industry look bad. Plus, who may be passing judgement on them if they fail to provide proper care?
It’s sort of like the blue wall of silence…….it needs to be changed.

Essential benefits. A new independent Advisory Committee with practicing providers and other
health care experts, chaired by the Surgeon General, will recommend a benefit package based on
standards set in the law. Essential benefits. A new independent Advisory Committee with practicing providers and other
health care experts, chaired by the Surgeon General, will recommend a benefit package based on
standards set in the law. This new essential benefit package will serve as the basic benefit package
for coverage in the exchange and over time will become the minimum quality standard for
employer plans. It also caps the amount of money a person or family
spends on covered services in a year.

Hey,Gretchenmom,
Yes, your Medicare works quite well now-
Did you NOT get the memo that the Medicare program is to be seriously slashed by Mr. Obama? Your life is about to change drastically!
Do the math – in order to cover all of the illegals & the folks who choose not to buy health care even though they have money, Obama wants to take 1.5 Trillion Dollars of OUR money to cover them. Read the Health Care Bill – you will NOT even be able to buy an operation – the government will make you stand in line (if you’re lucky!!). You’ll probably be too old to qualify for any treatments or procedures.
That’s bad enough – when you’re 75 & need a double bypass, there probably won’t be enough money for that.
It will be illegal to buy private care at that point. That’s why Canadians come to the U.S. when they need serious care.
Too bad; so sad; YAY OBAMA !! ;) you elected him – YOU live with it!

REFLECTO9 SAID: “Canada? My brother in law’s father is a M.D. from Canada. He has practiced and lived in the U.S.. For a reason.”
=========================
Such a stupid argument.
He lives in the U.S….. because there is no protection for the patient against outrageous medial and insurance charges and he can make his “million” off of the sick.

Posted by: X-Republican Because of Bush
So your life is worth what, two cents?
What’s next putting a cap on the amount a baseball player makes because you don’t think it is worth it? Since when do you get to decide how much someone makes?
And you think 1 trillion minimum is cheaper?

I have lived through many administrations; I have agreed more with some than others.
But I have to say that I haver NEVER seen a President who has the nerve to tell the American people that they should NOT listen to anyone who oppose his views.
He threatens us with disaster if we don’t agree with him; his LIE that he will give 5 days to review anything before it passes has become a joke….
He continues to take control of everything he can; NO ONE seems willing to stop him!
Whether you are Black or White or Whatever,…. this person took advantage of the fact that this country was ready for a minority President.
The Democrat Party put up a good-looking (half-black) smooth talker at a time that he couldn’t miss. He is just a puppet for an ugly agenda.
The Black people think that they have one of their own in the White House – not true. They have seriously been duped!
Can you start to think for yourself?? How many of you have read the 1018+ page Health care Bill that just passed? None, I’ll bet!
And the House members who passed it havren’t read it, either!

Reflect09…. next time, why don’t you post something with a little more “relevance” to your argument. I sure hope you’re not a lawyer.

One could even argue that it is Medicare that is raising the costs of care since they might only pay 80% of the cost of care therefore they raise the price of everything to make up the difference.

The CBO also said the Iraq War estimates that the Bush Admin put together were “adequate” in 2002…..doh!
The CBO is analyzing a plan that is not even close to final yet…as the POTUS says, lets take a step back and let the plan develop.

funny how what the CBO says all of the sudden has some kind of relevance to Conservatives. They wrote it off as liberal hogwash when the CBO was throwing out numbers which denied claims made by the Bush administration.
Folks, most of your arguments/opinions are based solely on partisan BS. I’ll be honest in saying that I don’t know if what they have on the table will work but to pretend there is nothing wrong with our system is just silly. I agree it shouldn’t be rushed into but the problem needs to be addressed.
I can’t blame a person for trying to do what needs to be done, right or wrong, as much as I can blame them for doing nothing!!

Posted by: X-Republican Because of Bush
So the bank is cracked, let’s totally break it, is that your argument? Obama has outspent Bush by trillions. And if the CBO is conservatively wrong I don’t think that means it is going to be cheaper. If they are wrong what, don’t even bother trying to figure out how much something might cost just spend however much they want?
Your too easy. Good night. And another thing I was a Hillary Democrat, changed because of Obama.

SKIP….. LOL… you’re correct. Very few “right-whiners” even know about how the two HUGEST increases in our National Debt over the past 50 years have been from 2 Republican administrations (Reagan and G.W. Bush).
They don’t understand that the entire reason that George H.W. Bush (Bush # 1) had to renig on his promise “read my lips…no new taxes” was because his predecessor (Reagan) had the National Debt skyrocket so much (by paying for government on borrowed money) that he HAD to raise taxes.
LOL…

James Salsman… I “respectfully” request that you READ the rules about use of this blog (LOL). You are not permitted to post weblinks to any other sites on here.
Another “right-whiner” who doesn’t do his homework!

Americans are being cheated by a patchwork quilt system where the highest risk people – veterans, the indigent and elderly – are insured by governments but the “gravy” or young, healthy people are handed over to private insurance companies.

One serious illness and you will just be sent home to die with hospice ( in other words pain pills) under Obama care. It’s too bad you don’t understand. Also the Unions, Congress and Mr Obama will be exempt from the care. The way they lower the cost is by denying care, wake up and stop believe their lies.

“I really think we have ourselves a dictator.” Posted by: Pat Smith | Jul 18, 2009 4:44:31 AM
____________________________________
No, thankfully Cheney is gone . ..

“a system that puts 95% of people in the postion of bankruptcy from one catastrophic illness, (given we pay double the costs of any developed country for access to these over-priceds services) is immoral, degrading and corrupt…” Posted by: indithinker | Jul 18, 2009 3:58:40 AM
____________________________________
Medical expenses play a huge role in a huge number of personal bankruptcies. Of course, the ‘stuck in their ideology’ types would prefer to just leave it this way . . . if it’s broke, why fix it?

Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001.
Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance. More than three-quarters were insured at the start of the bankrupting illness. However, 38 percent had lost coverage at least temporarily by the time they filed for bankruptcy.

Not for nothing, but since most of people losing everything right now is because of unemployment, shouldn’t they concentrate on that?

This is a power grab. I certainly do not want the government managing my healthcare. They don’t do much of anything well so why trust them with your life?
Also, it will cost a bloody fortune that just doesn’t exist. It will have to be borrowed or just stolen once again from the American taxpayer. It will cost exponentially more to force everyone to let the gov pay for your care.
Oh, and that line about keeping your existing plan if you like it? It’s a lie. If you don’t believe me, get a hold of some of the verbiage in the bill. There will be no getting away from this.

One of the benefits of living in America is that you have a long life (with court created freedom of “choice” in medical privacy matters,anyone?)
It’s clear that is about to change with Obamacare.
Anyone who aggressively advocates for cold-blooded infanticide, will rid the nation of it’s expense of caring for the old just as easily. Evil is as evil does. Confessing a different belief to the pope, nothwithstanding.
(Doctors in Holland have long admitted choosing who dies and who lives in secret. The almighty state makes a cruel mother.)

Don L: “One of the benefits of living in America is that you have a long life…”
Sorry to break the news to you, Don, but the U.S. ranks rather poorly in life expectancy. It’s about number 45 on the list of countries, a bit worse than Bosnia_and_Herzegovina, but a bit better than Albania. U.S. life expectancy is worse than that in the European Union, Canada, Great Britain, etc. Maybe if we adopted a health care system like that of Canada or France we could reach their levels and add a couple of years to our average life span.
Of course, the downside for those countries is that, overall, people there report dramatically more satisfaction with their health care than we in the U.S. do. And their infant mortality is lower. And they pay less than half of what we do. But don’t let facts get in your way…

Costa Rica? The more I say it the more I have to sit and laugh dumbfoundedly……Costa Rica?

What has the govt taken over that got better and/or cheaper? Liberals, be careful what you wish for…..

AMaitrejean – and don’t you realize that with government health insurance, that your son will more than likely be deemed too costly and he won’t get the surgery anyway?
The problem with we Americans, in general, is we don’t believe that anyone should ever die.

“If we don’t get health-care reform done now, then no one’s health insurance is going to be secure”…there he goes again with the scare tactics and threats. He’s a thug and a bully folks. There isn’t a stitch of statesmanship in his whole body
All one has to do is look at Medicaid and Medicare to see what the future of government run health care in this country would be.

AMaitrejean – I’m not cold & callous – I’m a realist. I feel bad when people die & I mourn – but I also know that we spend far too much money trying to keep people alive who shouldn’t be- and the healthcare system that YOU are so hot to have will make those determinations. It is entirely possible that they may take a look at your son’s medical history & determine that the country has spent enough. But don’t blame me – you are asking for it.

Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security are already bankrupting the country – we should fix these programs first before adding a new healthcare entitlement the national can ill afford. Even the nonpartisian Congressional Budget Office says the programs being worked out in Congress will cost in the $1.5 TRILLION range. To be honest I would not be surprised if it ended costing the nation over $2 TRILLION – government run anything always end up costing more and deliverying aweful service. President Obama, let’s get the country’s economic house in order first.

Obama is an egotistical moron. Had he EVER had a real job he’d understand how his policies are and will continue to DESTROY this country. In the future “Obama’s historic election” will not refer to him being black but rather the beginning of the end of Freedom in America and then the world. Move over Jimmy Carter. Obama is now the newest WORST President in American history.

Real Liberal – And any politician who votes FOR this bill is contributing to all of us being in economic slavery. Do you really believe that the federal government can “fix” this? Do you really believe that the federal government can “do” healthcare-for-all any better than they have done Medicare? Do you really believe that the American people need the Federal government to take care of our every need? I believe that any politician who votes for this should be convicted of treason against the American people.

For all those opposed to Obama’s plan, please tell me your alternative. I want to hear it. Obama’s plan has weaknesses for sure, but I don’t see any serious alternative proposed by all these naysayers. If you don’t like Obama’s plan, fine. Please describe how you will deal with the many problems in our health care system. I think it would be great to have 2 or 3 alternatives to simultaneously compare side-by-side. If you don’t have an alternative, if all you are going to do is throw stones, then just shut up! You are adding nothing to the conversation.

Those of us who have “good insurance” should be concerned. Since I started working in the health field 20 years ago I have seen patients dumped from their private insurance coverage when they get a catastrophic illness. I have never seen that with Medicare. We need reform.

ellsbells930: The government is the only solution to the republican corruption that has poisoned this country. The only problem in the past has been republicans. Stealing money from the common man to make their lives better. The politicians who pass healthcare reform will be national heroes and raised to the level and most likely above the founding fathers themselves. It will be like a 2nd revolution when people finally threw off the tyranny of republicanism. You just need to know when you beaten. The better people have spoken and one. Loser

Hmmm… Alternatives. For starters there are over 2,000 federal and state mandates governing private health care – that drives up costs big time. The problem is that government has encroached on private health care so much that this is a major contributor to rising health care costs today. You can also allow the purchase of health care plans across state lines. Right now competition is stiffled by governmnt fiat. Tort reform should also be high on the list – frivolous lawsuits cost the medical community billions of dollars. Just look at the insurance costs a typical doctor has to pay each year and I guarantee you will be shocked. Those costs are passed on to us, the common folk. Many of the “uninsured” are also already covered by existing government programs – they just haven’t enrolled. The true number of people who don’t have any health care options is about 10 to 15 million, not 50 million. There are proposals by House Republicans to get these people on the rolls at minimum cost but Speaker Pelosi won’t have any of that. The fact is there are many more proposals out there that don’t require government taking over 1/5 of the national economy to enact common-sense reform.

President Obama sounds like the DR. KEVORKIAN of Health Care Reform. President Obama “maybe they just take a pill to ease the pain.” or better yet go to a hospice and just die. President Obama’s Health Care Reform Bill is a fiscally irresponsible bill that will bankrupt our Nation, raise the cost of health care and use rationing to cut care for seniors and the disabled. Everyone would be covered but only the government chosen few would be given the right to receive any care. Higher Deficits, Higher Costs, Rationing and Lower Quality of Health Care for all (except the chosen few) will make our health care system far worse not better. As As Mises said, “Tu ne cede malis.” Do not give in to evil and President Obama’s idea of Health Care Reform is evil personified.

Gretchenmom – you want to know where I get that idea? How about the fact that I worked in healthcare finance for 20 years? How about the fact that I have studied this extensively in that time? I can guarantee that any rationing we currently have due to the insurance companies (which is part due to the fact that Medicare does NOT cover the cost of its patients) will look like nothing compared to what the government will do. How about the ‘$1.1 billion to research the effectiveness of certain healthcare treatments’ ? That is the foundation of the federal government determining which treatments you can and cannot get – period. Hide your head in the sand if you want, but mine is free of all those grains & I am certain what the outcome is going to be.

Has anybody on this board read the bill? HR 3200. 1012 pages. Get started.
Or are you going to let the media spoon-feed you the sanitized translations?
Admittedly I’ve read only the first 400+ pages, and am focusing on those areas that impact me. Fines for disobedience (2.5% “tax” on gross income forever), plans for indenturing doctors, nurses and other health professionals, and a plan to “improve” Medicare and Medicaid and cut costs (as He mentions above) by shifting focus from active treatment of illness to palliative and hospice treatment.
It’s in the bill itself.
This bill alters other laws and codes to enable the government to carry out this cost-cutting. Make no mistake, that’s what it’s all about. Not about providing health care. Decisions on treatment will still be made by committee, generally made up of financial experts. And doctors will be punished through DRG reductions for admitting patients to the hospital “repeatedly.” Or even seeing patients in the office too often.
Read it before believing it’s the answer to all this nation’s ills.

Real Liberal – maybe you should read some history & civics to learn what this country was founded on.

Medicare and Medicaid (Socialized health care of specific market segments) are both going bankrupt and that is apparently neither a concern nor an impediment to the left.
I wonder why?
Oh yeah, it isn’t about health care but political patronage and power.

Fiercely Independent:
“The longer this bill stays on the floor without a vote, the more people read it, and the more support it LOSES!!!
Of course Herr Obama wants it signed AS SOON AS POSSIBLE… it sucks!!”
INDEED.

danilo:Medicare and Medicaid (Socialized health care of specific market segments) are both going bankrupt and that is apparently neither a concern nor an impediment to the left.
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The White House seems to be making the argument that they know how to manage Medicare and Medicaid to save money, but they need to change the health care system for the whole country before they can implement (or unveil) the savings. In the meantime, they say, the reason we need health care reform is because Medicare and Medicaid are bankrupting the country.
Yeah. It doesn’t make sense to me either.

“Medicare and Medicaid (Socialized health care of specific market segments) are both going bankrupt”
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Americans are being cheated by a patchwork quilt system where the highest risk people – veterans, the indigent and elderly – are insured by governments but the “gravy” or young, healthy people are handed over to private insurance companies.
That’s why Medicaid and Medicare are going bankrupt. They’re carrying the insurance companies by caring for the high risk people.

“Same tatics for health care, we’ve got to pass this NOW, don’t read it, don’t listen to your constituents, hurry, hurry, hurry.”
Let’s pray His hair doesn’t catch fire during one of these pyrotechnic no-questions “press” commercials for His personal “emergency” Imperium.

Remember George Bush? He hid from the media for months at a time. Arrogantly refusing to take any questions – that is what you don’t want.
How quickly people are supposed to forget what real crap is like – again, not this time.

“What is really happening here is that as usual, the right in the United States … ”
Get a clue: the O’Blabla organization IS “the right in the United States”, and the Democratic Party “leadership” is its captive.

“How quickly people are supposed to forget what real crap is like … ”
Nooo: REAL crap is closet-Mormon O’Blabla, whose previously-unassailable birthday suit is wearing mighty thin, and his gang of supposedly-”Democratic” czars and mobsters.

No, real crap is an administration like Bush and Cheney’s that hid from the media for month after month. Arrogantly refusing to face public questions.

Actually yes, it is going bankrupt because it has to PAY FOR the expensive health care of veteran, the indigent and the elderly – while the insurance companies rake in all the premiums from the young, employed healthy segment of society.
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Danita. Medicare also gets premiums from the young, employed healthy segment of society.
Look at your pay stub. You have a Medicare tax withheld.

“Neither Medicare nor Medicare payments cover the cost of medical treatment.”
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You expect people to actually believe that nonsense? Of course Medicare and Medicaid cover the cost of medical treatment.

Neither Medicare nor Medicare payments cover the cost of medical treatment.
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Yes.
And that’s why urban emergency rooms in California are shutting down. High expense trauma victims who are uninsured must be treated, but the government doesn’t reimburse the hospitals enough to cover their expenses. That’s how the government “saves” money- by cutting back reimbursements.
And this is exactly what Elemendorf was talking two days ago. Paying for the insurance for people AND paying for their treatment is increasing the federal burden, not saving money.

You need to be paying insurance company premiums to understand how much those premiums amount to – and the fact they are skyrocketing.
You really don’t seem to have a very good understanding of what is going on.
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If I understand you correctly, you are talking about two different things.
You said Medicare is going bankrupt because it has to care for the elderly while it doesn’t *get* to cover the young and healthy.
That is not the problem with Medicare, because while treatment is indeed expensive, they get the equivalent of premiums from the young and healthy. Everybody pays into the Medicare pool. In other words, Medicare has the benefit of receiving money from the young and healthy, with no obligation to them at all.
Your issue with private insurers is separate.
And I do pay insurance premiums. I pay a premium to a private insurance company AND I pay the Medicare payroll tax. I’m sure you do too.

” … Arrogantly refusing to face public questions.”
Hahaha: O’Blabla’s staged town halls and “press” performances — He’s pre-empting the airwaves again next Wednesday — are at LEAST as contemptible as anything from the previous administration, which the current administration much resembles.
If anything, the O’Blabla organization’s rush to federal fascism — corporate bailouts and takeovers, undeclared wars, bulldozing the Congress — is MORE oppressive than the more-obvious excesses of the Bush administration on which O’Blabla, bleating “emergency! emergency!”, builds.

Yes, Bush and Cheney arrogantly refused to take questions from the media for months at a time – basically refusing to take responsibility and publicly face questioning on their policies and approaches. It was a cowardly approach. A major change has taken place on that front.

Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, two days ago:
“In the legislation that has been reported, we do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount and, on the contrary, the legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs.”
–> In other words, O’Blabla’s “plan” would be a never-ending subsidy to the insurance companies … a rolling corporate “bailout”.
Putting Single Payer in place before The Crash finishes crashing would be a prudent preparation.

What we’re in right now is a world-wide major economic crisis. Almost ALL countries in the world have experienced almost unprecedented job losses, business closings, incredible strain on government budgets and deficits.
This isn’t something that is an easy fix. It’s not a problem of just the United States or just this government.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wait a second…this is a world-wide major economic crisis? Even in those countries where the government regulates health care? How can that be? Obama said if we have health care like that it would help solve our economic problems, yet you’re saying countries who have it are in a major economic crisis, too.

Bet Noir…. LOL … quoting the CBO. The same CBO that said that Iraq war would cost only between $200 and $300 Billion. (LOL)
Go figure… some people will believe anything when it agress with their politics.

[Bush and Cheney refused] “to take responsibility and publicly face questioning on their policies and approaches. It was a cowardly approach. A major change has taken place on that front.”
The only “major change” is that the press apparently is AFRAID — it’s the Chicago Way — to question the Obama organization.
As for “cowardly”, Obama’s such a prissy chicken that He can’t stand conflict at ALL . . . just scolds everybody from the Pope to the NAACP, and leans on the press to “report” His wide-ranging hectoring of all and sundry as something other than the self-regarding megalomania, void of actual substance, that it clearly IS.

Medicare is “going bankrupt”??
Let’s see . . . who-all ELSE, corporately speaking, WAS “going bankrupt”? O’Blabla and Geither certainly filled THEIR pockets with a deficit-defying embarrassment of public riches?
Is the Defense Department “going bankrupt”?? Could BE. And yet they KEEP up the robo-killing of Pakistanis with whom “we” are NOT at war. Curious.
The double standard at this point: one for O’Blabla’s birthday suit, one for the REST of reality.

danilo- if the stimulus was not supposed to create jobs and get money in people’s pocket immeadiately and it’s intent was to keep government working, and it is doing what it was intended, the administration should have SAID SO at the time. Obama is the one who said “this will create jobs immeadiately” “money will go out the door now” to come back now and say these things were not the goal makes the administration not credible for their next proposal. You can defend him all you want but- he said it would create jobs and get the economy moving-makes me wonder what they will announce what real intent of national health care is in six months.

“”Bush was bad” ain’t gonna help the O’Blablas.”
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President Obama is way more accessible than the Bush Cheney cabal. They refused to even face the media – shameful.

” You can defend him all you want but- he said it would create jobs and get the economy moving”
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President Obama took pains to tell us clearly and repeatedly that the economic fix would not be easy, nor would it be quick.
He clearly told us things might get worse before they get better.
That you didn’t hear or understand this is not his fault.
The job creation aspects of the Recovery and Reinvestment plan accelerate towards the 2-year mark in the program.
There are many other aspects to this plan. You can find a lot of information on the White House web site.
You seem to think that a world-wide economic crisis can be fixed with the wave of a wand or the snap of the President’s fingers – that is a fantasy world you’re living in. Get real.

“Spend 20 years in hospital finance & then show me how those two payers cover the cost of treatment for those patients.”
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“those patients” . . . try to be more specific. Who are you talking about?

Bet Noir Said: “The only “major change” is that the press apparently is AFRAID — it’s the Chicago Way — to question the O’Blabla organization.”
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LOL…. sounds more like “you’re afraid”. Face it Bet, your party lost a HUGE majority in congress and the White House. Why are you so bitter? (LOL)

“Why are you so bitter? (LOL)”
“Bitter”? Outraged is more like it. Because I’m a Jesse Jackson Democrat.

danita – how much more specific do I need to be? It is obvious I was talking about Medicare & Medicaid patients.

“Spend 20 years in hospital finance & then show me how those two payers (Medicare and Medicaid) cover the cost of treatment for those (Medicare & Medicaid) patients.” Posted by: ellsbells930 | Jul 18, 2009 1:47:55 PM
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You’re saying Medicare and Medicaid don’t cover costs for Medicare and Medicaid patients – sounds like complete nonsense to me. They pay billions in costs. Billions. And it’s largely for the most expensive of the care – the care of the elderly, the indigent, veterans and people with pre-existing conditions.

danita – you called someone else ‘naive & uninformed’ – perhaps a little of that may apply to you. You are buying whatever the media tells you – do some research – and not just on the internet. Talk to people in the industry – including those in the financial areas (because a lot of clinical people do not truly understand the financial side – just as I could never claim to understand certain surgeries or medical treatments).

ellesbelles . .
Medicare and Medicaid pay billions in costs. Billions. And it’s largely for the most expensive of the care – the care of the elderly, the indigent, veterans and people with pre-existing conditions.
That it can’t cover all cost points to the need for reforming the system.
So does this – Canada’s health care system which fully looks after the entire population of 32 million people costs roughly what the private-sector health insurance companies make in PROFITS in the United States looking after less than half the population for excessive premiums.
p.s. – I’m not sure what to think of your manipulation of the system – it sounds half illegal, half admirable

I’ve been thinking about the House plan making new private health care insurance policies illegal and have begun to think that it is unconstitutional.
Frankly, it’s time that all opponents of Obamacare to embrace “Roe v Wade”.
Don’t think of it as having anything but a cursory attachment to abortion, but rather think of it as a proven endorsement of health care privacy from the intrusion of the government into your health care decisions.

Bet Noir Said: “Whaddya know — O’Blabla, today, AGAIN insists the sky is falling, just as He claimed with the TRILLIONS of deficit dollars He’s squandered on corporate bailouts”
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LOL… Bet Noir, have you ever checked on how much the Bush administration squandered on “Bank Bailouts” during the last year of their administration (2008)?
I guess you never heard of the TARP program/law that Bush’s Treasury Secretary pushed through Congress, and that President Bush signed on October 3rd, 2008, authorizing $700 BILLION to provide assistance to banks, i.e., the “Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008″???
A little bit of history for you Bet Noir… this is how much the Bush administration helped failing banks in 2008:
March 16, 2008 – Bear Stearns is acquired by JP Morgan Chase with the Federal Reserve providing up to $30 billion to cover possible losses Chase may suffer.
Sept 14, 2008 -Merrill Lynch is sold to Bank of America. Lehman Brothers collapses and files bankruptcy the next day. (A result of the Bush Administration’s “strong-arming” conducted by Bush Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.)
Sept 17, 2008 – Federal Reserve lends $85 billion to American International Group (AIG) to avoid bankruptcy.
Sept 30, 2008 – US Treasury changes tax law to allow a bank acquiring another to write off all of the acquired bank’s losses for tax purposes. Three days later, Wells Fargo offers more money than Citigroup for Wachovia based on the tax law change and walks away with a sweet deal.
Oct. 3, 2008 – Emergency Economic Stabilization Act (pushed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and signed by President Bush) authorizes Secretary of Treasury to spend up to $700 billion to purchase distressed assets of banks and inject capital into banks (TARP).
Oct. 6, 2008 – Fed announces it will make $900 billion in short-term cash loans to banks.
Oct. 7, 2008 – Fed moves to lend approximately $1.3 trillion directly to companies outside the financial sector.
Nov. 17, 2008 – The Treasury gives out $33.6 billion to 21 banks in the second round of disbursements from the $700 billion bailout fund. This payout brings the total to $158.56 billion so far.
Nov. 24, 2008 – Fed agrees to rescue Citigroup after an attack by investors plummets the stock by 60 percent. The buyout equals $45 billion.
Nov. 25, 2008: Fed pledges $200 billion more to help revive the consumer asset-backed securities financial system (cars, credit cards).

Ellesbelles . ..
Medicare is specifically age-based and bound to be extremely expensive because of that . . .
I think the following points are fair and clear, and I haven’t heard you respond to them.
“I think the point is Medicare and Medicaid have to cover those who are the most EXPENSIVE – people prone to health problems like the elderly, the indigent, veterans, and those with pre-existing medical conditions.
“Currently the insurance companies rake in profits by collecting large premiums and largely only taking on the young, the employed and the healthy – this leaves the elderly, veterans and the others dangling – while the companies profit and the tax payer suffers.
“It has to be changed. The insurance lobby is strong and wants nothing to change.”

bmm . ..
President Obama took pains to let us know the economic recovery would not be easy or quick.
And he most definitely said things could get worse before they got better.
This was a main message he delivered over and over. Not instantaneous jobs. Even if he said jobs would begin to be created immediately, he in no way said ‘we’ll create all the jobs needed immediately’. You stretch credibility with this implication.
We’re a few short months into the program and some people are, like you, demanding miraculous results . … try to be realistic.

Danita- You did not answer my question- do you work for the administration?
Why is it so hard to acknowledge what he said? I did not dispute the shape of the economy or tme it would take, I am quoting the words he said to sell the stimulus bill. You keep changing the focus, He said it would create jobs and put money in peoples pocket immeadiately. Obama is using the same tatics for health care.

X-Republican Because of Bush – The federal debt when Bush left office was 10.6 Trillion dollars. In his first 170 days in office Obama has increased the debt of the government by 901.25 Billion dollars. At this rate he will increase the debt of the Government by 1.82 Trillion dollars in his first year alone and 7.74 Trillion dollars by the end of his 4 year term in office. If he is elected for a second term with the same rate of spending then the government debt will increase by 15.48 Trillion dollars. Since the debt owed by the Government was 10.6 Trillion dollars when he took office an additional 7.74 Trillion will almost double the debt in just 4 years to 18.34 Trillion dollars and at the end of his second term it will have increased to an unthought of 26.08 Trillion dollars. The interest alone on this amount of debt will consume more than half of the entire federal budget. This does not even include what Obama wants to put into healthcare which has been estimated may actually cost upwards of 1.6 Billion dollars by the Congressional Budget Office. This is money that the Government does not have and cannot conceivably have without raising taxes to the point where everyone in the country will be paying a much higher tax rate than they are currently paying. No matter how you want to put it any healthcare reform will require government involvement which will lead to required government spending so the money is an important issue, if it’s not there then healthcare will have to wait until such time as it is available or the healthcare bill from Congress is revenue neutral and self sustaining over time unlike Social Security which is not self sustaining.

bmm- Post your source that says
“Obama said the stimulus would create jobs IMMEDIATELY”. I’ve done some research on your claim and every place I checked he was quoted as saying “it would take time” and even “Unfortunately, unemployment is the last thing to recover at the end of a recession”. Actually, history shows that his last statement is always the case. Thanks!

President Obama took pains to let us know the economic recovery would not be easy or quick.
Posted by: danita | Jul 18, 2009 4:25:41 PM
What does 0bama say to this: Go to that popular website that hosts videos and listen to 0bama in his own words. Type in “Obama vs Obama on the Stimulus”
Now tell me if 0bama is being truthful when he now says that the stimulus “was not designed to work in 4 months”

bmm – Here is what he said according to FOX who, as every conservative knows, is never wrong: “President Barack Obama said Wednesday that heavy-equipment maker Caterpillar has informed him it will rehire some of the thousands of workers it has laid off in recent weeks if Congress passes an economic stimulus bill.”
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I checked other sights on this all of which appear to be conservative and even they say he said, “within 2 years”. It would be fair of you to ask if he quoted the CEO correctly or if that meeting never happened.
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My point only is that, despite what you say, it absolutely DOES matter when people add a word, leave out a word, etc. I get e-mails all the time with all kinds of crazy “anti-Obama” claims, i.e.- “Michelle Obama used air force one this weekend to take her children on an un-authorized shopping trip to England”. LIES but based on the fact that she did go shopping in England when they were there in June. So the word “un-authorized” and the way it is worded makes it clear that it was an untrue attempt to make the Obama’s look like crooks.
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It’s the old game of telephone where things get passed along and the meaning changes a little each time until you can’t recognize the original. And when it passes by people with an agenda – no telling what you are going to get.

Olivia, wrong sweet heart! Obama was at the caterpillar plant trying to sell the Stimulas and “he” said laid off workers would be rehired and the ceo had to correct him and say no that wouldn’t happen. (I wonder what happened to that guy? any guesses if he still has a job?) Please go to the you tube web site you can watch anything there, oh maybe not, they did take off a congresswomen laughing and saying Obama’s health care bill would put insurance companies out of business. But wait, I guess thats okay, tens of thousands more will loose their jobs but what Obama wants Obama gets right? After all he would never try to rush a bill through before people wake up and find out it stinks. Just rush it through before the american economy crashes. What a fear monger this one is and you guys all cried about the last one.

Olivia- I appreciate your frustration at trying to defend Obama, le em see if I understand your position. You are taking the stand that Obama said before he signed the stimulus bill that it would be a long time before people went back to work, we need to sign away 700+ billion dollars and patiently wait for the economy to recover. Is that right?

“I checked other sights on this all of which appear to be conservative and even they say he said, “within 2 years”.” Posted by: Olivia | Jul 18, 2009 10:15:56 PM
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Olivia, thank you for the research on this. Regrettably, little details that constitute the truth go by the wayside when the Obamahaters on here go on the attack. The truth doesn’t matter much, it’s the attack that counts. You’ll see this over and over again.

Olivia and Danita- Why would you research the conservative sites to tell me what they said- What did Obama say. Tell me what he said not some talking head. He did not say before he signed that bill it would take two years to create jobs.
If you want to believe we were told by Obama that we would have to wait two years before jobs would be created by the stimulus bill before he signed it. If you didn’t hear him say there were shovel ready jobs ready to go and we not told the bill would not put money in people’s pocket right away- have at it. You are going to be rewriting alot of history the next three and a half years.
danita- do you work for the administration?

For those of you commenting on the stimulus plan, I present to you President Obama – ‘in his own words’ as they say:
White House East Room, January 28, 2009 – “Now most of the money that we’re investing as part of this plan will get out the door immediately and go directly to job creation, generating or saving three to four million new jobs. And the vast majority of these jobs will be created in the private sector. Because, as these CEOs well know, business, not government, is the engine of growth in this country.”

danita- Here is some more cherry picking for you, right from the horse’s mouth.
On Jan 28, 2009 Obama said “this bill was passed to get the money out the door immeadiately and go to create or save 3-4 million jobs. immeadiately”
April 13,2009 He said “because we know people are hurting right now, we need to create jobs and get money into peoples pocket right now.” same speech- “This government effort is coming in ahead of schedule and under budget.”
July 2009 Obama said “the stimulus bill was passed to make sure that local fire fighters and school teachers didn’t lose there jobs, and it’s done its job” “the stimulus bill is working exactly as it was intended”.
He did say he would create jobs immeadiately and you can look the speeches up for yourself.

And at the same time, these few flimsy quotes shrink in comparison to the pains the President repeatedly took to clearly and directly tell us things might well get worse before they get better. He told us the economic crisis would not be an easy, nor a quick fix. He said there would be touch times ahead, but that eventually things would get better.
These things he took pains to tell us clearly and repeatedly.

no, words are not subjective they have meaning.

immediately – in an immediate manner; instantly
Posted by: danita | Jul 19, 2009 3:00:26 AM
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So I guess President Obama said he would create 3-4 million jobs “instantaneously”…

Timmy- thanks for the heads up.

“And the vast majority of these jobs will be created in the private sector.”
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And I look forward to that actually happening – not that anyone can actually prove that a job was created or saved in the private sector from the stimulus money.
Only 18 more months and 3 – 4 million private sector jobs to go!

If you’re really dumb enough to think President Obama was claiming he could create 3-4 million jobs ‘immediately’ you’re out to lunch.

Danita, The words were at the end of a sentance that included these words also- the stimulus was intended to keep police officers, firefighters, and school teachers on the job and it has worked as intended. There was no mention of further jobs to be created, logically, the jobs the stimulus bill intended to create have been created.
They are not my words, and I didn’t say it was credible.

The fact is:
(1) When the Great Republican “Hero”, Ronald Reagan, assumed the White House from Jimmy Carter, Unemployment was at 7.5%.
(2) It took Ronald Reagan 3+1/2 years to get the National Unemployment Rate “STEADILY” under 7.5%.
(3) And IN FACT, almost 2 WHOLE YEARS INTO HIS PRESIDENCY, the National Unemployment Rate actually peaked into the 10% range (November & December 1982).
But of course…. most of your typical “right-whiners” (because they are “whiners” on the right)… would expect our current President to already have fixed the economy and everything “should” be back “by now” to the prosperous economy we had under President Clinton.
Again, such attitudes only prove two things: (a) they are nit-picking at the President because of their political party affiliation, and (b) they really don’t understand economics and how “unemployment” will have a significant “lag” behind what the rest of the economy is doing.

So that is the new agenda of the right, twist whatever possible into portraying President Obama as having said he will create millions of instantaneous, right now, immediate jobs – and then ridicule him for not being able to do it.
What a pathetic and transparent ploy that is.
Any American with half a brain can see through that one. Why? Because they heard the President say directly and clearly to them that the economic fix would not be easy, nor quick and that things might well get worse before they get better.
Everybody heard that because the President took pains to repeat the message clearly and directly to the American people.

Barack Obama has said both that the jobs would be created immediately and that they would take time.
That’s the beauty of O. You can quote him taking every position on anything.

“So that is the new agenda of the right, twist whatever possible into portraying President Obama as having said he will create millions of instantaneous, right now, immediate jobs – and then ridicule him for not being able to do it.”
A weak ploy and the only people falling for it are the Republican right wingers who created it.

One more try– Danita, not everyone who disagrees with the president’s particular take on health care reform is a “right winger.” And there are more alternatives than the president’s way or no reform at all. By the same token, the president does indeed want to have it both ways on the stimulus– promise us a quick jumpstart while reminding us it would be a long slog. It is not those who point out his inconsistencies who are deluded.
Posted by: moderate | Jul 19, 2009 3:40:47 PM
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Well said!!!!

Skip – you obviously haven’t read the comments here or you would see that I and others have given alternatives.

“- you obviously haven’t read the comments here or you would see that I and others have given alternatives.”
There’s almost 400 comments on this page and most of it is the typical unmitigated derision. If you will take the time to re-post some sincere suggestions I’ll be happy to read them.

Re moderate’s post of Jul 19, 2009 3:40:47 PM my “Well said” comment was to his entire post, not just the part that remains.

danita – Waiting the 5 days that Obama had promised for Congress to read the stimulus bill would not have resulted in months and months of languishing. That bill needed a lot more work done to it. There was far too much waste included.

Thank you, ellsbells! You made some excellent suggestions concerning how to provide useful and cost-effective health care reform. Creating pools of customers for health insurance benefits would be a sensible way to reduce insurance costs and allow more small businesses to offer better insurance to their employees. Tort reform is essential as well.
There are plenty of great ideas out there. Skip and others who sniff “you just want to tear down, but you don’t offer solutions” are wrong. There are plenty of proposals out there. But seriously, Skip, what does it matter what alternative ellsbells or I propose, because we are not in a position to get a bill through congress. At least, I am not a member of congress. Are you, Ells?
We need to focus attention on stopping the rush to pass one of the plans currently coming out of congressional committees. Once that happens, centrists can devise a new set of plans that still moves this year to make headway on reforming health care but does not sow the seeds for the destruction of the private insurance industry, our excellent health care system, and our country’s economy.
No public option!

“How is this for an alternative?”
#’s 4 and 5 are reasonable, and possibly 3, though I’m not familiar with it. Altogether these are probably not sufficient to really fix the problems although 4 might amount to quite a bit.
#2 has the serious drawback that it will create an incentive for companies to move to states with the most favorable [and in the vast majority of cases that means lax] laws and least favorable protections for the customers. We all saw that with the credit card companies. People wondered how they could feel so ripped off by a company in their state only to find out the company was based in another state where it was OK to gouge the heck out of you.
But #1 will be the most controversial. You can’t really seriously propose to fold Medicare without explaining what you plan to do about the tens of millions of elderly and disabled people enrolled in it. I mean talk about ‘preexisting condition’! No private insurance company in the entire country is going to want to take on any of these people. The AARP will strongly disapprove and you’ll never carry Florida.

Oh – and I don’t give a flying fig whether AARP approves or not.

Skip – it IS easy. And Medicare is the root of the problem, so it is necessary to get rid of it to fix the problem. If you have a rotten tooth, the pain doesn’t go away if you pull all teeth around it and leave that one there. If the changes are implemented & costs come down, then seniors won’t NEED Medicare (especially since they are already purchasing supplemental insurance because Medicare doesn’t cover everything)

bmm- I checked the conservative websites because more than once I have been accused of, “you must have got that from the liberal media..” I figure a conservative can not say that when I quote the mighty Fox.

Gretchenmom- I HAVE given my ideas to my representatives in Congress & all I get pack are those irritating form letters which state that they HAVE to do the opposite of what I suggest. They don’t care what we think. All they care about is staying in their cushy jobs so they don’t have to work in the real world.

Comments by Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., “If we’re able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him,”
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It is clear that the only motivating factor by some Republicans is politics. Why should that be the driving factor to derail health care reform? It’s a disgrace.

Gretchenmom – This plan is NOT healthcare reform. It is another government program that will be just as bad, if not worse, than Medicare – one of the most bloated, bureaucratic, programs with contradictory regulations that has ever been created in this country. True healthcare reform would get rid of Medicare and would open up insurance plans to the whole country. True reform would make it easier for people to get care by getting rid of all the referrals, etc. This plan by the government is just more of the same – with more regulations, more rationing, more difficulty in getting treatment.

Sir,
Please explain why the congress, the President, federal employees, and unions are exempt from the proposed health care.
The American people want the same program as congress and at the same cost. IE nothing !!!