President Obama Continues Questionable “You Can Keep Your Health Care” Promise

RE Healthcare funding etc.
The current funding mechanisms for universal healthcare will destroy small business. This is not an exaggeration from some rich guy. Thousands of small businesses like mine are lucky to make approximately 5%-8% of sales. I calculated the costs that will be imposed on me under the House bill and it will put me in the red by approximately $125,000 per year. You guessed it–I will be out of business and bankrupt in short order. I heard Robert Reich state in a debate on CNBC that “small businesses will simply pass their costs on to their customers.” What an outrageous statement. Has he never heard of pricing power (or lack thereof in a recession)? Am I to pass these costs on to people that are unemployed or afraid of losing their jobs.
Obviously none of the people pushing this bill are small business owners, or have considered the disproportionately negative impact on people in service industries. I operate hair salons. My employees make between $9 and $10 per hour for the most part. These extra costs will represent and increase of close to 40% in compensation for some of them. I would love to buy them all insurance. The numbers simply don’t work.
Please consider a funding alternative–a “National Sales Tax.” The clear advantage of a national sales tax is that everyone will contribute. The rich will pay more, and the poor will pay less. And it gives small business owners (who employ most people) a fighting chance to survive. Please debate and discuss this idea to fund healthcare through a national sales tax.
Thank you.

According to your Economic Adviser Christina Romer, as stated in the Job Impact of the American Recovery Plan, if we DID NOT sign the stimulus bill, the first one, our unemployment rate would increase to 8.5% and peak at 9.5% by 2010….As we all now know including Biden,”we all misread the economy,” it has been much worse with the signing of this stimulus…Why should we believe you when you say “You can keep your health care.” No offense Mr. President but you and your economic team are doing a lousy job and if you worked for me you would have been fired a long time ago…

It’s amazing that anyone listens to Tapper or ABC anymore.
But even with their documented bias towards the “pro-business” side of the debate, it is interesting that you can’t write a hit piece on the public option without mentioning that a public health option would have less overhead, and hence be more efficient.
Newsbreak: Business are already forcing employees to switch to “high-deductable” plans that limit their costs and also limit benefits.
It would also be nice if these talking heads would ever mention the fact that the govt run health care options provide better outcomes, at a lower cost, to a higher risk population, while garnering higher satisfaction ratings.
Somehow that never makes it into print.

Someone needs to ask how or why an employer, faced with maintaining a program that costs somewhere around 10-12% of payroll, would maintain it when the govt penalty for not offering health care will 8% if the bill is passed. People may interpret that the penalty for employers not offering health care will guarantee their current company-offered healthcare, when in fact it will have the opposite effect.

Or… we could make it harder to file lawsuits against doctors and hospitals so that liability insurance would cost exponentially less, and in kind so would healthcare!!! WOW! Problem solved.
But no, lets throw money we don’t have around some more and see what happens. I mean, why not? If at first you don’t succeed try try again!
The old saying comes quite loudly and clearly with this administration:
“Democrats are always generous with money except for their own”.
Enter “the wealthy”, who are already robbed of almost half of their income by the government.
But no, that’s not enough, let’s make every bit of income taxed to fund this, even stuff that has tax-shelters, like life insurance and charities! YEAH! YES YES YES, WE CAN!!! WE CAN!!! We can keep ourselves in power at the expense of other people! Woo hoo!
Wake up America. Crappier care at the cost of THE PEOPLE’s money for decades to come. And that’s not even mentioning the “stimulus”….

“Importantly, the government might create circumstances – say, a public health care option that is less expensive since profit is not a concern and overhead is lower – where you might find your business forcing you into that public plan.”
Can anyone tell me how this is any different from now, when you may find your business forcing you into NO plan at all, or one with $100 co-pays?
It’s a bit embarrassing to see the media so uncritically parroting the Republican’s puzzling “Government healthcare is bad because it could be so cheap and popular no one could compete!” propaganda.

Employers will switch to the cheapest insurer possible to reduce costs of doing business. It’s a ridiculous statement to offer to keep what you have if you are happy. Employees do not have a say what they can or can not keep. It’s obviously comping from the person who never worked for anybody or run any business.
Cheap insurance policies are available now and they were always available. When I came here, I could not afford much at all, but the first thing on my mind was to cut corners in the budget and make sure we have medical insurance. Everything else can wait, but health should be taken care of. That is what we did. We drove beat up cars for decades until we could afford to have better one.
It’s just simply wrong to impose penalty on 270 million people with insurance for the benefit of 40 million who do not have. What are the reason they do not have it? Can not afford or do not want to afford and waiting for someone else to pick up a tab?
It’s just simply wrong. COnsidering that Health Industry in third of our economy, we may see it going down the toilet and adding to the un-employment. It’s not sustainable.
I had national health care plan in Russia. Everybody was covered equally crappy. No advance treatment, not diagnostic, everything is rationed and un accessible. My grandma died in a lot of pain. Doctors would not come to visit her because she was too old and there was no value in saving her life or investing in any treatment. She died at 84. After 70, doctors do not really care if you live or die. Your life is not worth saving anymore.
Is it what we want to have here?
I hope this bill will get buried in the senate. The only way it should be passed if every single member of US government at all levels will be switched to it and use their own medicine, not to prescribe us something that they do not want to have.
It’s plain wrong and should not pushed onto us.

“Well my employer is switching plans in January. Will I be able to keep my plan? NO. Will I be able to keep my Doctor? Maybe.” Posted by: Thinking | Jul 16, 2009 6:24:55 PM
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Exactly. There are no guarantees you can keep anything under the current system.

“It has a very poor records in Canada, France and the UK.”
By what measure?
They spend far less than us with far more access.

I’ve heard the waiting period for a bed in a maternity ward in Canada is 11 months. That’s probably why the send so many expectant mothers to US hospitals to give birth.

Terry:”I’ve heard the waiting period for a bed in a maternity ward in Canada is 11 months. That’s probably why the send so many expectant mothers to US hospitals to give birth.”
There’s a classic Republican “fact”! Thanks for the chuckle.

lisa…you can always go out and buy your own insurance. the bill however will now prohibit you from doing so. this is a job killer, dont kid yourself. i have had up to 147 employees. we just laid 4 off today and most likeley more to come. the recession is only really starting to kick in. if you think you are going to tax me for providing benefits or fine me for employing people… we will just cut more. i am not gambling my house and life for fun. WE HAVE SEEN HOW THE STIMULAS IS A DISASTER… HEALTH CARE BILL WILL COST MANY MANY JOBS. OBLAHBLAH IS FINISHING US OFF. I LAID OFF 4 HARD WORKING PEOPLE TOADY WITH MORTGAGES , KIDS ETC BECAUSE ITS FINALLY HIT THE FAN.

catman:”I HAVE SPENT OVER 250 DAYS IN CANADA WORKING OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS …THEIR HEALTH CARE IS AWFUL AND THEY COME HERE FOR REAL CARE THATS A FACT.”
Well if it’s all caps (or repeated loudly and often enough – the classic Republican tactic) I guess it just has to be true.
Just to touch reality, you gotta wonder how Canadians can afford to be treated in the land of a $200 aspirin since none of them have insurance. But hey, Republicans keep shouting it and they don’t just flat out lie now do they?

“Page 16 of this bill currently states that if you change jobs or loose your job you must go on the “public option”.”
Nope that was a lie told by IDB that is now being passed around the right wing media.
All the right wing has are fear and lies.

Every doctor, dentist and other health professional accepts Medicaid, the current government health care plan (run by insurance companies), so it follows that they will accept Obamacare.
No, wait, most don’t accept Medicaid. Oh, I’m sure they’ll take this…
The reality is, doctors and dentists don’t have to accept any particular type of insurance. If the government makes them do so, odds are the doctors and dentists will simply quit, as so many have already done. Fewer doctors, fewer nurses (and not enough instructors to teach in the existing schools, despite the lofty goals of HR 3200), fewer health care professionals in general… it’s already a problem. Just go ahead and push a little harder.
I’m sure they’ll get on board, get with the program, see the light, come to understand, and compromise. Or maybe they’ll just send a letter to their patients. “I am closing my practice…”

SENIORS: As a doctor I can tell you that I am already planning on what changes to make in my practice to counter the cuts in medicare reimbursement that obama is calling for to pay for this new public option. Either I will see less medicare patients- (I can restrict available slots to medicare patients to just a few a day) or stop seeing medicare patients at all. Many of my colleagues are thinking along the same lines. And some of my colleagues think I am crazy for still accepting medicare at all. This is reality. Seniors on medicare are going to be unwelcome in many specialists offices. The bottom line is we have expenditures that must be met- building costs and staff to pay- our own mortgages and kids in college… This is trickle down economics and this new health care plan is going to hit seniors hard.

Ryan C – read page 16 of the bill before you run your mouth.

And what is an IBD anyway?

And RyanC. I am a nurse practitioner of over 30 years.
Everyone I work with is dead against this.
I suppose you’ll call me a right winger liar again. That seems to be your standard response.

“It would also be nice if these talking heads would ever mention the fact that the govt run health care options provide better outcomes, at a lower cost, to a higher risk population, while garnering higher satisfaction ratings. PROVE IT.”
Well 9 years ago our healthcare system was ranked 37th in the world with virtually ever 1st world nation ahead of us while spending less.
“Are you thinking of VA hospitals which just had to notify over 1 million people that they were possibly exposed to HIV because of poor sanitary practices?”
Yes its our shame.
Support the troops for right wingers is putting a yellow magnet on the car.
Actually funding the VA to take care of our brave vets? Not so much.

Ryan C: You are wrong- I am a physician in the state of Washington. I am not posting threats. I am giving you the facts. I am not going to take a 20% cut in pay to see medicare patients when there are private pay patients lining up at my door. I am sure the government run “public option” will be the same. I have personnal and private overhead that must be paid and I will not be able to afford to fill my waiting room with medicare or public option patients.

There was an ad for the President and Congress’s plan (they have one?) on tv just now. It told me without this change, my premiums are going to go up 70%. It also showed a parade of people about to be denied their treatment (actor portrayals, of course).
So, it’s good to know the President wants to get this done before the opponents can start scaring people.

“Keep telling yourself that we are 37th in the world in health care. Tell me that you would rather live in even half of those 36 other countries and be treated there for prostate cancer”
Japan and France actually do a better job than the US for some cancers.
You keep repeating “we’re #1″ with ZERO evidence to back it up.
“You also brush off the criticism of the VA. What about the Indian Health Services that we are obligated to fully fund, yet we only fund half the cost and the poor tribes just hope they get sick before the federal dollars run out. ”
Gee who is against fully funding entitlements.
Could it be the right wing?

Would have been nice if ABC would have looked to page 16, which pretty clearly states choice is NOT part of this plan.
Let’s let Congress have the same plan! Make that a requirement, with no five-year opt-out. Then let’s see if this boondoggle flies.

Gee who is against fully funding entitlements.
Could it be the right wing?
Actually, the entitlements you speak of are obligations under treaty in the case of the IHS and just plain morality in the case of the VA. The right wing does seek to get rid of entitlements like medicare, medicaid, and welfare because they are inefficient and full of corruption and fraud. The point I am trying to make in regards to IHS and VA along with social security is that the lawmakers always underestimate costs down the road and that is what prevents them from being fully funded. The money we could use to go to the VA or IHS is instead being drained by welfare. I don’t say that the US has the number 1 health care system when you try and break it down into mortality rates, cost, and what ever other variables they want to use. I say we have the best healthcare system in the world because we have the most innovative and free system that allows us to constantly try new treatments that are not allowed under government run plans anywhere in the world. I am willing to go into debt in order to save my kid’s life, I am not willing to give my kid’s life prematurely so that I don’t get a hospital bill when they die because care was withheld for too long or even at all.

Congress will not allow themselves to be put into the public plan with no priority on wait lists and with the same coverage as the rest of us. Heck, they won’t even force union members to go to a public plan. How do you like that? Better get a job with Government Motors if you want to avoid a public plan.

“I am willing to go into debt in order to save my kid’s life, I am not willing to give my kid’s life prematurely so that I don’t get a hospital bill when they die because care was withheld for too long or even at all.”
Ah yes the right wing fantasy where the noble insurance companies support experimental procedures.

Ryan: “Ah yes the right wing fantasy where the noble insurance companies support experimental procedures.”
You did not even get the point. I am willing to pay out of pocket, any cost, to save my child’s life. I want to keep a system that allows me to do that. I am not willing to accept a government run plan, to which there is no appeal, just so I have the peace of mind that there will be no hospital bill to go along with the funeral bill.

Who is going to pay to train more doctors if fewer will be entering the profession, and/or leaving the profession, because their compensation and profitability will erode when forced to accept government mandated reimbursements?

Rahm

And you can bet going to Medical school and becoming a physician will not be just for the intellectually elite…just wait until you see who the next generation of MDs will be…I’m seeing alot of young people with alot of talent changing course before they end up working twelve hour days for 50,000 dollars. Innovation and critical thinking will not be encouraged, the art and science of medicine is complicated and I’m afraid some “left wingers” just don’t understand this.

ryan says: “The AMA seems happy with the House bill which I was a little surprised by.”
According to article by Jeffery Young for The Hill, “The key to the AMA’s backing of the House bill is that the legislation would permanently fix the Medicare payment system for physicians, which annually calculates that their rates should be reduced. In 2010, the current formula would cut physician fees by 21 percent.”
They just sold their support in exchange for an agreement that their medicare reimbursement would not be cut that significantly. I wonder how the cost curve is going to bend down if we are not going to reduce payments to medicare? In fact, why is it that the only cost savings the admin can point to is the reduced payments to medicare, but now they are promising the AMA that they won’t reduce them? Somebody is gonna come out looking pretty silly when the medicare payments are reduced.

“Does anyone think lawyers would accept a government takeover of legal representation?”
Psssst public defenders are usually private practice lawyers.

It is “questionable”…but not the entire truth. The private sector can never compete with a government sponsored entity:
- The government is not accountable to show a profit
- The government can print money
Obama and the Dems plans is to squeeze out private insurance so that the “public” (i.e. government) option is the only option left standing.

“IBD found on page 16 of the House bill that it will be illegal for you to enroll in a private insurance plan after the public option is implemented if you switch jobs or your employer dumps their plan or your provider goes belly-up. You will be forced to enroll in the public option.”
IBD lies
“Investor’s Business Daily did not continue to read the bill to page 19. “Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan. ” It does not outlaw individual private coverage – you can still buy the plan on the Exchange where they will compete with the public option, not be replaced by it. The advantage of the Exchange, is that the coverage no longer has one of the problems of individual coverage – skyrocketing premiums should you become ill.”
Busted by Instapundit of all people

“Do you think attorney’s who make themselves availble as public defenders give the same quality reprensentation as the attorney’s that don’t? Do you think OJ would have walked with a public defender representing him?”
Interesting that for all our high minded ideals that justice is for sale isn’t it?

“At least the right wing should be clear about who they are defending in this mess.”
I’ll be very clear: I’m defending against additional intrusion of an incompetent, confiscatory, and corrupt government into my life.
Spin as you wish…

“That’s Phase 2.”
Not sure if it has been your experience, but I’ve been accused of “name-jacking” (not guilty), of being a gun owner (not guilty), and have also been labeled a “racist” and a “sniveling coward”.
Classy.

“The govt. already offers universal health care for Native Americans.”
Since you brought it up – Excerpt below from AP June 2009:
CROW AGENCY, Mont. – Ta’Shon Rain Little Light, a happy little girl who loved to dance and dress up in traditional American Indian clothes, had stopped eating and walking. She complained constantly to her mother that her stomach hurt.
When Stephanie Little Light took her daughter to the Indian Health Service clinic in this wind-swept and remote corner of Montana, they told her the 5-year-old was depressed.
Ta’Shon’s pain rapidly worsened and she visited the clinic about 10 more times over several months before her lung collapsed and she was airlifted to a children’s hospital in Denver. There she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, confirming the suspicions of family members.
A few weeks later, a charity sent the whole family to Disney World so Ta’Shon could see Cinderella’s Castle, her biggest dream. She never got to see the castle, though. She died in her hotel bed soon after the family arrived in Florida.
“Maybe it would have been treatable,” says her great-aunt, Ada White, as she stoically recounts the last few months of Ta’Shon’s short life. Stephanie Little Light cries as she recalls how she once forced her daughter to walk when she was in pain because the doctors told her it was all in the little girl’s head.
Ta’Shon’s story is not unique in the Indian Health Service system, which serves almost 2 million American Indians in 35 states.
On some reservations, the oft-quoted refrain is “don’t get sick after June,” when the federal dollars run out. It’s a sick joke, and a sad one, because it’s sometimes true, especially on the poorest reservations where residents cannot afford health insurance. Officials say they have about half of what they need to operate, and patients know they must be dying or about to lose a limb to get serious care.
Wealthier tribes can supplement the federal health service budget with their own money. But poorer tribes, often those on the most remote reservations, far away from city hospitals, are stuck with grossly substandard care. The agency itself describes a “rationed health care system.”

TODAY, THERE WAS A LOT OF NOISE FROM SEVERAL RADIO TALK SHOWS POINTING OUT THAT ON PAGE 16 OF THE HOUSE BILL WHICH JUST PASSED, IS A PROVISION THAT IN A NUTSHELL BANS AN INDIVIDUAL FROM TAKING OUT ANY NEW PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE POLICY. (beginning Jan 1, 2010). THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED TO KEEP THEIR OLD POLICY IN FORCE INDEFINITELY, BUT THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO SWITCH TO ANOTHER PRIVATE PLAN. NOR WOULD ANYONE WITH NO POLICY IN FORCE BE ALLOWED TO SECURE A PRIVATE POLICY. IF THIS BILL IS PASSED BY THE SENATE – THAT IS THE END OF PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE IN THIS COUNTRY!! ISN’T THAT WONDERFUL??

“I’ll be very clear: I’m defending against additional intrusion of an incompetent, confiscatory, and corrupt government into my life.”
If it’s not the government than big companies are the other alternative. I think it’s going to be a tough sell to convince people that big insurance corporations really care about our welfare beyond being a number on an accounting ledger. At least when the bleeding heart liberals are in control of the government the government might really care. That’s why there is a fundamental flaw in a system that generates huge profits from people getting sick. Illness for profit will never work for the public’s best interests.

Ryan_C has once again dragged out the old WHO study ranking the US 37th in the world in health care: “Well 9 years ago our healthcare system was ranked 37th in the world with virtually ever 1st world nation ahead of us while spending less.”
I hope everyone does a little research and educates themselves on the metrics used in the WHO study and how this ranking means very little in ways that I personally find meaningful. For one thing, a major component of the ranking was based on life expectancy, but it did not adjust for deaths from injury or violence, the rate of which is extremely high (unfortunately) in this country. If you take out the people who die from being shot, from car accidents, and such, our life expectancy is one of the highest in the world. That means, barring violence or injury, if you get sick, your chances of being cured and living to a ripe old age regardless are higher than in other countries that are ahead of us on WHO’s list, who catapult above us because you are much less likely to be hit by a bus at age 30 or ejected from your car because you were too stupid to wear a seatbelt at age 16 or shot in a robbery at age 26 if you live in, say, Iceland or Cyprus than you are here.
In addition, the WHO study awards a lot of points for “financial fairness”– this factor is weighted at 25% of the ranking. Financial fairness is assessed based on what percentage of family income is spent on health care, which has nothing to do with the quality of that care. It also means that countries where the government pays for health care rank higher than those with market-based health care. It is not surprising that, given the criteria used by WHO, the US ranks so low in this survey.
IF we are going to do dueling studies and statistics, Ryan, let’s throw in the two Lancet studies from the past year that show the US has higher five-year survivability rates on all major cancers than any other developed nation, including Canada and England. That includes breast cancer, prostate cancer,lung cancer, cervical cancer, etc. One astonishing tidbit– American men have an 80% better chance of surviving prostate cancer than British men.
Of course we spend more per capita on health care than any other nation. We are, after all, the richest nation in the world. And some of the health care spending in this country comes from wealthy people from other countries coming here to get the best available treatment, contributing to the spending on health care in the US.

Skip, of course a corporation could not be expected to care about an individual’s health, but they do care about providing the best care so they can attract the most customers. Government regulations and programs currently distort the free market which could deliver the highest levels of care at the lowest price. Medicare and medicaid artificially distort prices with imposed price controls, and the restrictions that insurance companies have on where they can sell insurance to the restrictions on individuals being able to purchase insurance from out of state companies ruins that free market principle. Health care should be portable and not tied to a job, the government should stop subsidizing employer provided health care through tax breaks, once they stop, the prices will drop all over and people will be able to shop for premiums and plans like they do for auto insurance. Any time the government gets involved in something by imposing price controls and restricting competition, costs go up for all of us. We could solve all our problems by getting the government out of the health care business and just allowing individuals to purchase insurance or health care directly from the doctor and be assisted by being given tax breaks. Those who need healthcare and can’t afford it will be helped more efficiently by non governmental organizations. If liberals are really so compassionate, why don’t they contribute at the same or higher rates as conservatives to charities. Government is not good at compelling people to pay in excess of their taxes and it is not good at efficiently providing any kind of service, so we need to limit the services we provide to the absolutely necessary like defense and infrastructure.

This is a totally misleading blog. It’s very clear that nobody, least of all the President, can guarantee that if you like the plan, you can keep it. If you still believe in all that bs about consumer sovereignty in health care, you must be a simpleton. Never have we been able to keep the plan we want; we have always been at the mercy of our employers (whether they continue to hire us and, if they do, whether they continue to offer us the plan that we would like to keep). My plans have kept changing and I have seen my costs rising with each change. If a public plan comes along and is able to drive down my costs — directly or indirectly, why not?

Looks like some of us are for the public option and some are not. So why not allow those who are for the public option to choose that option? After all, don’t you all conservatives subscribe to the idea of free choice (unless when it comes to women and how they use their bodies and gay people and their sex partners)?

A public plan isn’t fair because some states don’t pay any income taxes. Florida has no income taxes but will still get to participate in the public option. NO.
Whe all states pay their fair share of taxes then I will support health care reform.

WHAT I DON”T GET IS – OBAMA AND CLAN ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SUPER INTELLIGENT. HOW CAN THEY POSSIBLY BELIEVE THAT NATIONAL HEALTH WILL SUCCEED AND THAT THE RICH WILL PAY FOR IT? TALK ABOUT THE “LAND OF OZ!!” NOT A FAT CAT – JUST AN AUTO PRTS DRIVER WHOSE KNOWS A HECK OF A LOT MORE ABOUT WHAT WORKS THAN THESE HACKS IN DC.
CHICAGO, DETROIT, CLEVELAND, DC AND BALTIMORE, AMONG OTHERS – HAVE BEEN AND CONTINUE TO BE DISASTERS FOR YEARS YEARS AND YEARS. ALL RUN BY DEMOCRATS FOR YEARS, YEARS AND YEARS. NOW THESE HACKS ARE GOING TO MAKE A SHAMBLES ON A A NATIONAL SCALE – WONDERFUL!!

Oh no the parasitic insurance companies may go out of business. Posted by: Ryan C | Jul 16, 2009 8:38:52 PM
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I really don’t understand all this hatred toward the insurance companies. I guess I’m in some sort of bubble with my HMO. I’ve been with this HMO for 15+ years now and have never had any issues, my copays are low and premiums reasonable. I’ve never been denied coverage or procedures.
Granted, I am reasonably healthy and the coverage is through a 100,000+ employee corporation so I have plan choices and they negotiate good rates.
I’m sorry that others have trouble. Is it the exception or the norm to have “parasitic insurance companies” here? Or is that left-wing exaggeration?
I do know one thing. I do not want anyone messing with what I have and have already told my representatives in Congress this. I do not trust the govt to make this the only step. They have a poor track record in that regard.

to “bubbles”: I’m sure you’re joking, but in case others, likely Obama adherents who never took civics, the State income taxes are for State- not to Obama or the Federal government. Not all States have income taxes (the ones doing well usually don’t.) The FEDERAL income taxes are paid by everyone: whether you live in Florida or in a State that also takes a cut of your wages.
Regardless of whether the Federal income tax is legal, or moral, the point is current practice is that everyone pays the Federal income tax (or is supposed too) but that is totally separate from the State income taxes (if they exist where you reside.)

“I have to be selfish about it.”
“That’s what I’m scared of.”
At least you’re being honest. But there it is again: selfish=greed, scared=fear.
It always comes down to that with you guys.

The influential American Medical Association Posted by: danita | Jul 16, 2009 11:11:55 PM
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How influential is the AMA? Is the AMA representative of the practicing physicians? What’s the percentage of total practicing physicians who belong to the AMA?

I really don’t understand all this hatred toward the insurance companies.
Posted by: Traffic Cop Timmy | Jul 16, 2009 10:55:16 PM
Tim, this is a favorite Saul Alinsky tactic that the left constantly employs.
i.e.,”Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” and “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon”
Repeatedly demonize insurance companies and “the rich” (business owners) so that you don’t have to go delve into specifics on how much “better” govt. run health care will be. The more you “ridicule your target” the more appealing your option becomes.
Have to give them credit though…Barack 0bama played this strategy masterfully during the election. He repeatedly demonized the evil Bush-Cheney Regime and put himself out there as an agent of “change”. Too bad that the electorate didn’t realize that the “change” 0bama had in mind, all along, went way beyond changing just the last 8 years.

Obama isn’t getting away with this spin doctor BS. The public can see right through this stuff. His vision of Health Care in America will never pass. I’m sure there will be some sort of reform. He has no choice but to pass something. But nothing remotely close to what he wants. The Blue Dogs, the Repubs & now even Senator Conrad (D), head of the Budget Committee, said he doesn’t support the House bill. That’s a pretty big smack in the mouth to the POTUS because he was one of the first Senators to come out and support Obama for the Presidency. What’s the old saying, “with friends like these, who needs enemies?” The Republicans can just sit back and watch the bloodshed. What was that former Dem. Senator Zel Miller said today? He said something like – Rahm Emmanuel is gonna need to glue Obama to his seat in order to keep him in the oval office. LOL!!! I knew the Dem ship would sink, but I didn’t know it was going to go down this quickly. Here’s looking forward to 2010 & 2012 REPUBLICANS!!

Posted by: Jack | Jul 16, 2009 11:42:16 PM
Thanks Jack. See my most recent post. This is where I’m at. If greed and fear mongering describes me, so be it. I’m not backing down from being a productive, responsible member of this country. Or for fighting to keep what I’ve earned.

“And for doing all these responsible things, I am called “greedy” by someone I don’t know and who doesn’t know me.”
I didn’t call you greedy for being responsible, I just pointed out that selfishness and greed are very similar. Don’t worry Tim the bleeding heart liberals aren’t going to ruin your retirement. Their great overriding weakness is that they care too much about you too.

I don’t like Obama, I don’t like most of his policies, but I didn’t realize he was a total idiot. How can he campaign for a man that has run his state into the ground by giving the store away to the politically connected and state unions (the head of one he was sleeping with during negotiations)? New Jersey politicians are the most corrupt in the country. Recently Corzine gave a sweetheart deal to another state union (costing taxpayers millions – the state is 10’s of billions in debt) just so they would not picket during the visit of Biden to launch his reelection campaign. I lost what little bit of faith I had that king O might actually do something good at some point.

Another day, another Obama lie. One owuld think that even the lefties would catch on after a while.

Whenever Obama starts anything with “Let me be clear…” he is about to hell an outrageous whopper of a lie.
Well, let me be clear this experiment is OVER. It was a huge reckless gamble to put such an inexperienced, unaccomplished and unintelligent extremist in this position and WE LOST.
IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON FROM THIS DISASTER.

It is interesting there are some (Skip) who would say (I’m beginning to speak like The One – yikes!) that the governnment would “care more about you” than the evil insurance agencies. But here’s the difference: If I am not happy with my insurance company, I can look to take measures to find another. If my employer only offers one option, I can look to change employers in favor of an employer with a better plan if I am that dissatisfied with my insurance. I can supplement my insurance with a Health Savings Account (HSA) if I feel it is prudent to do so.
My point is that I currently have choices. When the government takes over issuance and administration of healthcare (which is their goal), we all will have no choice. Obama is on record stating that he wants to eliminate employer-sponsored healthcare plans.

Obama’s biggest mistake will be this healthcare bill just like Hillary and Bill Clinton. I am pretty sure he is taking advice from Hillary about this bill. It will be an even bigger albatross around Obama’s neck. Maybe this is what Hillary wants! Maybe she wants to run in 2012 and this is her way of assuring Obama’s demise and no re-election. The last thing anyone in America wants is more unemployment, another bill in the mail to pay (while unemployed), and not to be able to pick their kids hospital or doctor or to be told to ‘come back tomorrow’ or ‘there will be a 2 to 10 hour wait’ by some witless government official when a mother can just go to the doctor pay her co-pay and leave in a half hour to an hour tops.
Again Obama is a politician and he is only trying to do and say what he feels is popular. In February and March he said priority one was to get the unemployment rate down and ‘create or save 4 million new jobs’ now that he realizes he can he is talking about passing this ‘healthcare bill’ as he thinks its popular with 46 million uninsured voters. The problem is of those 46 million uninsured 1/3 are illegal aliens and dont vote so the real number is more like 31 million voters who are for public healthcare and since there are 300 million people in the USA (counting the 50 million illegal aliens who dont vote ) thats like 200 million voters AGAINST the plan for nationalized healthcare (give or take 50 million). So its really NOT popular especially considering the extra taxes, unemployment and another bill in the mail to pay part. No one wants the govt picking their doctors or choosing their medical treatments either. They know its a recipe for disaster. No matter what Obama says.

tjp, you make an excellent argument for choice. Thanks! As you say, if you don’t like the treatment you are getting from your insurance company, you can shop for another. It may be difficult, but it’s possible. If you hate what your employer offers, you can change employers. Again, hard but not impossible. But if the government is in control and you don’t like it– you are SOL.
I implore people to contact their representatives and politely ask them to slow down. We are on the move toward dealing with the health care issue– waiting a month until members of congress have visited their home districts in August is a wise part of the process. The Democratic leadership would have us believe that we can’t wait another month if we are serious about reform. Nonsense. The provisions do not kick in for years– we can afford to take six or eight weeks to get it right and to listen to the American people on the issue.

“Then everyone whines when they can’t get coverage after they’ve become ill. People like Skip and Ryan want insurance companies to pay for the damage to their cars that occured before they got coverage. Accident first- then get the insurance.
It doesn’t work like that. It’s called insurance, not being stupid. ”
Having a preexisting condition means one is stupid?

I didn’t call you greedy for being responsible, I just pointed out that selfishness and greed are very similar. Don’t worry Tim the bleeding heart liberals aren’t going to ruin your retirement. Their great overriding weakness is that they care too much about you too.
Posted by: Skip | Jul 17, 2009 12:18:26 AM
—————-
What a load of bull. You’ve already proven that you don’t care about him, Skip, just like you’ve proven you don’t care about many others here, in your rude condescending posts.
As to bleeding heart liberals, they don’t seem to care about others ether although they sure profess (LOUDLY) that they do. What their actions say they care about is seeming to be bleeding hearts, so they can control and meddle and force their views on everyone else. When their fixes don’t work, they’ll never admit it, they just have to fix the fix a little bit.
Meanwhile, they’ll slam every non-liberal bleeding heart person viciously (what happened to the bleeding heart and all that care? Doesn’t apply to non-bleeders somehow? They’re not human?). They’ll name call and label (often grossly incorrectly) and demonize. Every non-bleeder is just mean and doesn’t care about others or the environment. When the fact is that they DO, and typically the actions that they take prove it. Look at charity statistics for example. Furthermore, the policies they support typically have far better outcomes by any measure for the majority of people than the micromanaged skewed stuff the bleeding hearts claim will usher in utopia. Its been shown time and time again all over the world and right here in the United States.
Posted by: And Atlas Shrugs Yet Again | July 17, 2009 at 03:43 AM

I guess Jake has gone to the Frank Luntz talking points. No question where this guy (who will never worry about health insurance) is coming from.
Despicable!

“Because that is the only thing that will force private insurers to compete with a public plan and lower costs.”
You are aware that private insurers subsidize government reimbursed healthcare, correct (by paying physicians are lower than market rate)? Contrary to your beliefs, if/when private insurers are driven out by the “public” (government) plan, one of three things will happen:
1.) Costs will increase (which will require rationing by government)
2.) Level/quality of service will decline (long-waits and delays, fewer primary care physicians in practice, less investment in facilities and equipment)
3.) Costs will increase while level/quality of service will decline
Most Americans are happy with the level of healthcare they receive – Why the rush to change it? Obama’s/Dems approach is socialized medicine which will decrease quality/level of care for everyone.

How transparent Tapper is. He’s a GOP man all the way.
Right now companies are dropping or modifying health insurance for employees. The only difference is there isn’t an affordable alternative. This is especially true if you have a pre-existing condition.
The President is countering argument that the government will force you into a government program. And Tapper is smart enough to know that’s what the message is. But he can’t help himself when it comes to supporting the GOP.

moderate | Jul 17, 2009 2:52:30 PM
You are aware that private insurers subsidize government reimbursed healthcare, correct (by paying physicians are lower than market rate)?
———–
Please explain your absurd assertion.
Private insurance isn’t subsidizing the government. They are maximizing their profits but contracting for reduced reimbursements in return for access to their policyholders.
And they are steering their policyholders to these providers in lieu of increased deductibles and lower co-payments.
You do realize don’t you that many bankruptcies are the result medical expenses incurred for severe illness or injury? And it isn’t just the uninsured but the insured as well. Those deductibles, co-payments, and lifetime maximums add up quickly/

Oops,want to make sure I’m clear. The comment from sandy refers to my screenname and the time of my comment about not accusing Jake of being a shill. However, that is NOT my only comment on the thread– I also had an early comment suggesting people contact their representatives and ask them to slow this bill down and look at it carefully. However, I don’t see anything in that comment either that has anything to do with Sandy’s comment. What am I missing?

Don’t you need to go suck up and cover for Sanford some more? Don’t pretend you are a “real” journalist now with the typical lies.
Jake, you lost all credibility trying to cover for the hypocrite adulterer.

“My only comment here was to fuss at other commenters for making rude remarks about Jake Tapper.”
And so it begins…the Liberals perceive a threat and resort to Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” (same teaching Our Dear Leader received and executed as a community organizer and as he – and his party – still do today):
RULE 12:
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy.
Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
Hang in there, Jake

Slow Down, at least let the bill be read and understood, then debated.
Take care of the major problems.
Tort Reform – Not saying that we should give up the right to sue for medical malpractice just set reasonable limits.
Insurance regulation – You should not be dropped just because you use your plan. If an insurance company wants to drop your coverage they MUST show that you are abusing the system. Also, make it an individual’s responsibility to have a least a minimal policy (just like having car insurance) that covers emergency treatment. If you want better coverage you pay a higher premium. Remember, you only get the coverage you pay for. Insurance companies should make a profit; but let face it, multi-million dollar bonuses are not warranted. Also set up an arbitration system where if warranted a procedure is reviewed for cost and then decided on in a timely manner.
Un-tie insurance from your JOB. If employers want to go through the process of identifying a plan and offering it to their employees, great, if not, give a portion of the expense they would incur back to the employee. That is what my company did for me when I opted to not use their insurance because as a retired service member I am covered via the TIRCARE system. Understand if you buy a minimal policy that is the service you will be getting. One of the biggest problems we face is the fact that our health insurance is tied to our employer, this has really screwed up things as we leave our jobs and are left without any insurance. Unless you’re retired union, government or military when you retire you normally left without insurance.
Mandatory insurance – The government should work with the insurance companies to create a tier system of service, low cost, medium cost, and platinum service plans. For low cost, say $50.00 per person per month just think of the total sum generated every month. Yes we would have to assist the folks who can not work with this payment but everyone else would be required to pay for the service on their own. Plans would be created to cover dental, optical and prescriptions coverage also.
A National ID card – a “Shovel Ready” program. Set up offices and have folks come in to get them. Mandate a one year deadline to have a Nation ID. Set up GMC Vans (might as well use GMC we own the company) and have teams go out to the poor and housebound. We have the technology to create a database to track the ID’s generated. Then as children are born and Legal Immigrants arrive they are given an ID card at that time.
Illegal Immigrants – Send them home, and yes if we wanted to do it; it could be done, a simple 8 week training course for new ICE agents. Start to round them up and ship them out. Just think, ICE could charter buses, trains and planes helping those industries out. Believe me if you pay your employees enough and treat them well you will fill the jobs that the Illegal’s current are doing. If caught back in the country illegally your are locked up in a federal work prison, see Sherriff Joe Arpaio to see how that program should be ran. How do we pay for this? Fine the employers that are hiring illegal Immigrants. As the flood of illegal immigrants decline the ICE agents would be reassigned to other task, i.e. TSA or border security.
Anchor babies – give the child a US Passport and a letter that says when they turn 18 they are welcome to come back but until them they MUST go home with their parents.
Use the military medical service as a guide and create medical centers around the country. These centers would be a one stop place consisting of a hospital, medical service buildings, government service building for administration staffs. We could even build barrack style housing for homeless folks and provide them training and jobs. Just think of all the Jobs that would be created, Start with one center in every state, then after that center is completed, build another in the state till we have enough created to fill the needs along with the current hospitals that we all ready have. Identify regional centers that would have the medical treatments that are advance and are not cost effective to have at every hospital. Give each state 30 days to identify a piece of land for the first center and then start to build it. We can build shopping malls in a year we can build a medical center in the same amount of time.
These medical centers would take the cases that other hospitals and Doctors will not take. Doctors and hospitals do not want certain patients because they will not be reimbursed for their services as they feel are justified.
So how do we staff them, assist Doctors and Nurses along with all the other staff with tuition assistance in colleges or technical schools. Have them pay back their assistance with a mandatory service time in the National Health Centers. Tie the pay scale to the same we use for military personnel. The patients will have some insurance so the majority of cost will be recovered.
Tax everyone working a $10.00 payroll deduction per month to pay for it all. For example 25,000,000 people at $10.00 a month would generate a return of 250,000,000 a month or 3,000,000,000.00 a year. If the government cut matching funds from other programs, i.e. foreign aid, reduction in military services, ect.. we would have enough to pay for this. Current US Population, 304,059,724 (per Google) if only 1/3 of the number is employed 101,353,241 x 10.00 = 1,013,532,410 a month or 12,162,388,920 a year. Make this pool of money untouchable for any other reason than National Health cost. Just think how much would be generated each year.
So if you go to an ER they are going to want to see your insurance card and National ID. No ID, well you get treated, provided a bill and then turned over to ICE agents at the hospital for deportation. No insurance, you get treated, sent the bill and a hefty fine. If you can not pay the bill you are given a required work period every week till the bill is paid.
We need lots of folks to pick up trash and sweep streets.

it is obvious that the president means you have that choice and his plan isn’t trying to take away your freedom to choose. the thing is the person may not even know they have one of the horrible plans that will drop them when they get sick or cancer, and then when they are kicked off, they will learn why they should not have continued choosing and paying for such a terrible plan. the insurance companies have many tricks to keep paying customers and they won’t tell you personally until it is no longer profitable that some acne your doctor noticed will get you kicked off because you didn’t disclose something ridiculous that they can kick you off for. and yes government isn’t the best or high-end, but at least they can level the playing field against the tons of scammers and pretenders. and the healthcare in america is too expensive, let’s do the right thing like other countries have already done and give access to healthcare to more than just the ER rooms.

HEY, YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT “FREEDOM OF CHOICE.”
I don’t know about YOU guys, but last time I checked? My employer of whom I’ve worked for the past SEVEN YEARS changed our Health Insurance plans FIVE TIMES, and I WISH it was for the better.
Let’s just say this year they gave what I can only describe as an “alllowance” of $600 a year, and my co-pay for a stay in the hospital (which was only 5% when I started in 2003) is now at 20%.
And when we had 3 HMO’s and 2 PPO’s, now we only have TWO HMO’s to choose from! Where I USED to only pay $5 for co-pay visits? I know pay $15. I didn’t CHOOOSE to pay more.
So, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that MAYBE Obama’s plan lacks choices. Let’s assume/believe that.
Are we so INCREDIBLY STUPID to believe that our CURRENT system offers us choice as well?! Are you BLEEPING KIDDING ME?!?

And how about this: We talk about DEMOCRACY like American’s invented the idea all by ourselves. Socialism is a VERY BAD thing because you know… ALL of you have immigrated from a REAL Socialist regime like… CAMBODIA or… NORTH KOREA. Listen, until you are at gun point being told to tow the party line? Be quiet, please. I know that feeling. Not fun.
This is not to say Socialism isn’t inherently dangerous and not to watch out for it, but how come our BEST chums and allies whom THE USA calls DEMOCRACIES such as: France, The United Kingdom, Germany, Finland, Norway, Canada, etc.- All democracies, people can vote, have freedoms… THEY ALL HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH AND NONE OF THEM TURNED INTO THE U.S.S. flipping R!!
What are they REALLY trying to hide form us? This goes BEYOND Left and Right, Republican and Democrats, Rich vs. Poor (I’m not too sure about that one) and I’m curious WHY all this OUTCRY about choices and fear of Socialism when we are presented with EVERYDAY proof that some of these claims are full of bull-manure? Are the vast majority of Americans THIS ignorant that some arguments that are made they can’t just… Look at a map and say “Wait.. How about THESE guys on this part of the map? They did “X” and they didn’t end up with “Y” like YOU claim would happen to us!”

Someone wrote:
“One of the most outrageous mandates in the Democratic health care bill is found on page 416. On this page, you will see mandatory “end of life” counseling for seniors every five years. With this counseling, they will be spoken to about the different end of life choices that can be undertaken.”
Actually, that’s not in the bill at all. Counseling is provided to aid in *any* decision-making, if the patient needs it. I suppose that could be for end-of-life care, but that’s not explicitly mentioned in the bill.

I would like to know why, drug companies are allowed to advertise drugs on the nightly news and in magazines.This must be very expensive and would cost drug companies tons of money.Stopping this in turn should allow the cost of drugs to come down. Making things more cost effective for americans.This makes the drug companies at the same level as “street drug dealers”. When this is changed, the drug companies would only give Drs. flyers, that state only facts and side effects about the drugs. Drs. would be monitored to make sure they are not receiving money from drug companies to support any one drug.The mighty drug companies have become to big since they have peddled drugs. I look at the world some what different.Drs.and drug companies should be more interested in helping people with health problems,by treating cause of the problem not the symtoms.

There it is folks, the loop hole onthe insurance scam. The government will not force you to change plans but the government will force out the private option & they will drop us. But if you get time to read the bill, it’s on page 16 of HR3200. Just like the death panels weren’t in there! How do you remove something that was never there??? LIEs,Lies Lies. Oh & now what he has been claiming isn’t true about making a secret deal with the Pharmaceutical lobbyists will now cost us 80 bil more. It has just been leaked by the person that wrote it up. My head is starting to hurt from all this corruption, lies & thuggery!!

“The government should work with the insurance companies to create a tier system of service, low cost, medium cost, and platinum service plans”
if it is good enough for congress it is good enough for me.
ken