Republicans Assail President Obama Meeting with Congressional Budget Office Director As Inappropriate

What a crock. So now it’s wrong to try to get the views of what cost-saving measures might work from the person who calculates such things? I’d think that would be a good thing. Knowledge sharing is bad?

That’s just dumb. It is important that they figure out what needs to be done to “bend the curve” to lower medicare costs.

Seems like just a year ago it was okay for the VP to have “meetings” with the CIA and do a little arm twisting.
What a bunch of nonsense this story is.

Can ANYBODY tell me what this “proposed” health care plan actually says? Anybody read it? It appears to me there is a whole lot of hype with no facts. Again, the “news” media is running the country. I suggest we all give a listen to the Eagles tune “Dirty Laundry” again.

Will the executive’s Organization next send Mr. Elmendorf under the Obama mob bus with Mr. Walpin?
Maybe The One should jump — or be pushed — under the bus, Himself. More and more DEMOCRATS wish He would.

“Elmendorf, a Democrat appointee”… Wrong, Jake. He’s not a “Democrat” appointee. He’s a Democratic appointee. “Democrat” is not an adjective.
No wonder people accuse you of being a Republican shill. I would think the Chief Political Correspondent, or whatever your title is at ABC News, would know basic English.

Interesting, I didn’t know that it was “inappropriate” for a sitting president to consult with a group of advisors to better understand the costs and benefits of proposed legislation. It’s only the framing here that makes it seem as though Obama was trying to “influence” the CBO in any way. And for the record, it’s “Democratic appointee,” not “Democrat appointee.”

consult with a group of advisors
The CBO is not an adviser to the president. “Congressional Budget Office”. They are a watchdog on the president. Doesn’t that make it seem odd that Obama wanted a face to face with them?

Welcome to Chicago politics. Obama seeks to “persuade” (aka-strong-arm) the CBO that it should score the economic cost of bills differently. As a working economist, I am aware of how important the underlying assumptions are in the model. Change a few assumptions and one gets a different result. Remember the $880 billion “stimulus” bill passed in February. The Obama administration claimed then that its model predicted that 3 to 4 million jobs would be created, unemployment would not go above 8.5%, and we would see an “immediate” return to economic growth. In contrast, the CBO’s model said that at best 800,000 jobs would be created, whatever economic benefits that were claimed would be observed over a significant period (2010 and 2011), and that unemployment would continue to rise. In hindsight, the CBOs estimate has proven to be significantly more accurate than the Obama Administration’s estimate.
As we debate healthcare costs, all I can say is here we go again. Again we have competing economic models – one from the White House and Congressional democrats that says this is affordable – and one from the CBO that says the proposed legislation actually increases costs. Given that we have two competing economic models, one based on political assumptions and one based on economic realities, does anyone want to guess which model will be proven to be more accurate. The Blue Dog dems know the answer and that is why they are running for the exits.

Reading the comments here, it seems like the only people critical of Obama are the wingers who call him a commmie or a thug.
No evidence, no logic, just hate. I’m going to enjoy watching the wingers on the right drive out all the moderates.
As for the story, I do agree that, in addition to polling for ideas, he was probably trying to influence Elmendorf–but not through intimidation. More likely to try to bring him around to seeing cost reductions like prevention in a more quantifiable way.

Sounds like Mr. Obama is trying to get the books cooked…

The President is ticked off because this guy actually did his job instead of playing political-kiss-@ss !
HR3200 is a boon doggle at best! It is not a PLAN at all, it is a “guideline” that leaves ALL the real decisions to the Sec. of H&HS and then gives her 18 months to “adopt an initial set of benefit standards” ! they can have 18 months after the grat Obaba Push to simply adopt and initial set of standards! Yeah, this is going to reallt be good for the “People”!!!!
All Elmendorf did was his best to figure out what this lame beast is really doing, and the result was not favorable to the President.
Maybe if the Congress actually had a REAL, TRUE plan instead of another “scheme”, they could have presented a bill that the CBO would have given a thumbs up on!

“Once again, he comes across as a thug.”
More thuggishness: while he’s shooting the messengers IN the administration, in the Democratic Party, and in Congress in general, he’s doing his best to keep most of the message a state secret:
Obama refuses to release info on how often/many health executives have been coming to the White House. (So maybe it’s a good thing Mr. Elmendorf has given an account of his OWN “visit”).
Peter Nicholas, LA Times:
“The Secret Service sent a reply stating that documents revealing the frequency of such visits were considered presidential records exempt from public disclosure laws. The agency also said it was advised by the Justice Department that the Secret Service was within its rights to withhold the information because of the “presidential communications privilege.”

So the President got the cost expert together with the players pulling together the package in an effort to identify the cost drivers. Sounds a lot like what every single successful business in America would do.
Not that I personally find the CBO’s irrationally limited forecasting methodology very convincing at all (how is that $8 trillion+ SURPLUS over 10 years they forecast in 2001 for Bush to sell his tax cuts/”giving it back” working for us?).

drjohn:”This is not Chicago, Barry. This is Washington. There are rules here.”
What are you suggesting? He broke absolutely no rules. Typical right wing – reality is irrelevant when making a personal hit on an opponent. This “Rove style lie first, lie often” approach is part of why Republicans have so little credibility with Americans (their proven failure when they had all the reins is another part).

He absolutely tried to strong arm the guy…just like Walpin. Socialized Medicine is Obama’s “baby”. He is NOT going to let this get defeated. No matter what. Next will be the “promises” of pork and favors to legislators who will vote for it. He does not like anything about our country and will not rest until we change from the USA to the USO

sounds like the director of the CBO doesn’t have a problem with it either.
Posted by: danita | Jul 22, 2009 1:31:32 PM
__________________________________
Maybe it didn’t work as planned.

“Reading the comments here, it seems like the only people critical of Obama are the wingers who call him a commmie or a thug.
No evidence, no logic, just hate. I’m going to enjoy watching the wingers on the right drive out all the moderates.”
LOL, you seriously need to get yourself up to date here!
Go look at http://www.gallup.com
Independents: 55%- Disapprove of the way Obama is handling health care and 40% approve.
As ALWAYS – Liberals don’t lie, They just forget the TRUTH!

““The President invited the director to the White House to discuss health care reform and reducing health care costs,” said White House spokesman Reid Cherlin.
Gibbs described the meeting as a way to discuss ways to reduce health care costs, with no discussion of the CBO methodologies that have annoyed Democrats in their drive to pass health care reform legislation.”
The CBO does not develop legislation, it simply evaluates legislation placed before them. They are not policy experts, healthcare or otherwise.
Would a hitter ask a baseball umpire how to improve his batting average? Would a manufacturing manager ask his accountant how to improve quality and lower costs within his/her manufacturing operation (outside of using accounting techniques)? Same principle.

The kool-aid must be tasting mighty good. Who in their right mind would think that nothing happened when Obama met with the CBO Director? There is no need for him to go face-to-face with him at all, and to do so leaves nothing but a sense of “impropriety” and “strongarming”. Obama is nothing if not ruthless. Get real!

“I presented CBO’s assessment of the challenges of reducing federal health outlays and improving the long-term budget outlook while simultaneously expanding health insurance coverage..” – director of the Congressional Budget Office, Douglas Elmendorf.
__________________________________
Travesty! Why would the President want to know this information! What terrible government! How insidious! How evil!
You silly fools . .. thank merciful God the mental cases are in a pitiful minority . … try to use your brains. God gave em to you for a purpose.

Elmendorf was overheard saying “I told Barry that his Jedi mindtricks would not work on me.”

Where’s the proof that prevention saves money? I’ve seen studies that say prevention actually costs MORE money, as millions of people who aren’t sick get tested for illnesses that they don’t have.
Early detection of an illness certainly improves the life of the patient, but the added cost of other patients being screened for illness outwieghs that benefit, cost-wise.

Why can’t the President meet with the person whose job is to calculate costs? Isn’t that something the head of a large business does – meet with the finance people to determine costs and how they can be contained? As for the CBO chief under Bush never meeting with him – that sounds normal for that admin – they didn’t care what the war cost or their other secret stuff. They called it Presidential Privilege or National Security and did whatever they wanted.

consult with a group of advisors
The CBO is not an adviser to the president. “Congressional Budget Office”. They are a watchdog on the president. Doesn’t that make it seem odd that Obama wanted a face to face with them?
Posted by: Axey | Jul 22, 2009 1:00:48 PM
=================
I think Axey lays out the problem right here.

Speaking of transparency- how’s that working out?
As well as the Obama pledge not to use singing statments?
Or lobbyists?
Har

“Would a hitter ask a baseball umpire how to improve his batting average? Would a manufacturing manager ask his accountant how to improve quality and lower costs within his/her manufacturing operation (outside of using accounting techniques)? Same principle”
You would ask a baseball umpire how high his strike zone is, and players do that all the time… Would a business ask his accountant to lower costs? Ummm… yeah… what do you think a “cost accountant” does? they aren’t bookkeepers… they don’t just do analysis, but they also do recommendations…
When Kent Conrad asked the CBO for recommendations on lowering costs at his hearing last week, no one from the right seemed to complain… but, when the president does it… whoo boy, it must be bad! Why?

It’s so simple! And ignorant, and idiotic . .. and transparent. Weak minds leading the pack over there on the right . ..
Posted by: danita | Jul 22, 2009 2:10:12 PM
___________________________________
More Hope & Change from the all-inclusive left.
“We are the world
We are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
So let’s start giving
There’s a choice we’re making
We’re saving our own lives
It’s true we’ll make a better day
Just you and me”

“Would a business ask his accountant to lower costs? Ummm… yeah… what do you think a “cost accountant” does? they aren’t bookkeepers… they don’t just do analysis, but they also do recommendations…”
Big difference between a financial accountant and cost accountant…
“You would ask a baseball umpire how high his strike zone is, and players do that all the time”
But will that help a hitter improve hitting mechanics?
Remember the “C” in CBO stands for “Congressional”. Obama has Orszag, and Summers, and his kingdom of Czars to go to for advice and guidance. He has no business meeting with the CBO. Orszag, as a former CBO Director would surely know how to read a CBO report.

Timmy . . ..
Please don’t try to blame your weak logic on my lack of inclusiveness . . . again you make no sense.

Why is it wrong for the President to get direct feedback on cost savings in health care from director of the Congressional Budget Office, Douglas Elmendorf?
Why?
Because we say so . ..
yours truly,
the Republicans
p.s. – no we can’t show you where it says this in any law or anything like that because it doesn’t exist – we just make this stuff up as we go …

drjohn:”Speaking of transparency- how’s that working out?
As well as the Obama pledge not to use singing statments?”
Are you assuming we’re just too stupid to remember (or look up) what Obama’s actual position on signing statements was?
“No one doubts that it is appropriate to use signing statements to protect a president’s constitutional prerogatives.” -Obama, written response to the Boston Globe questionnaire during the campaign
drjohn- Can you provide a cite showing Obama contradicting his clear written position, or are you really just making up whatever fiction you need for your Two Minute Hate?

“I was invited to the White House to meet with the President, his key budget and health advisers, and some outside experts. The President asked me and the outside experts for our views about achieving cost savings in health reform. I presented CBO’s assessment of the challenges of reducing federal health outlays and improving the long-term budget outlook while simultaneously expanding health insurance coverage …” director of the Congressional Budget Office, Douglas Elmendorf.
_________________________________
If meeting with the President was outside of his mandate or in any way a conflict of interest Elmendorf could have, and should have, simply declined the invitation.
This was not the case.
From his blog, it appears he was quite willing to participate and found the meeting productive.
wolf! wolf! wolf!

Search
Obama promises no signing statements
on Yout*be.
Watch him say it yourself.

In 1911, former slave Booker T. Washington prophetically wrote, “There is (a) class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.… There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who don’t want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public…”

Traffic Cop Timmy:” What could have possibly have been accomplished in LESS THAN AN HOUR other than an attempt at intimidation? ”
Typically, in a 30 minute Value Engineering session with the bean counters (engineers and architects on a design team don’t really want more time), we would ask for the areas of highest sensitivity in the cost model so we could be sure we’re going after the biggest pieces of the pie. We’d also ask for their experience with other projects to suggest places we have outliers that should be addressed (perhaps ducting is unusually expensive due to local labor in their market, but using pre-fabbed ducts would cut it). But that’s just based on, you know, reality.

If meeting with the President was outside of his mandate or in any way a conflict of interest Elmendorf could have, and should have, simply declined the invitation.
This was not the case.
From his blog, it appears he was quite willing to participate and found the meeting productive.
wolf! wolf! wolf!

Now we’ll watch Elmendorf magically reduce his numbers on the deficit.
Obama didn’t like the CBO’s numbers because it basically kills the bill. Obama is now delaying the deficit projection numbers.
“Transparent” my arse!

It’s funny. Neither Obama nor Jerry Nadler nor Chris Murphy in my stupid state would accept Obamacare.
But we all should.
If it’s not good enough for Obama and not good enough for Congress then it’s not good enough for Americans either.

“Obama should be talking to Orszag, not Elmendorf. Obama was way out of order.”
Orszag, alas, was too busy hiding the Budget Review, and filling in for the untelegenic Gibbs-Emanuel, doing personality-cult damage control on the Sunday teevee shows.

“I don’t understand what the gripe here is. The President isn’t allowed to talk to the head of the CBO? This appears to be one of these new rules that pop up whenever convenient for the Republicans to use in an attack.” Posted by: Rick | Jul 22, 2009 2:50:35 PM
______________________________________
Exactly Rick. This is one of those new rules that pop up whenever convenient for the Republicans to use in an attack.
Of course, President Obama is a ‘Chicgo thug’, so this must be wrong because everything he does is wrong!
wolf! wolf! wolf!

“From his blog, it appears [Mr. Elmendorf] was quite willing to participate and found the meeting productive.”
What ELSE — beyond alerting people TO the fact that he was summoned for a command performance — COULD he say publicly, while retaining his employment and basic well-being?
(If there was more to it, where could Elmendorf take THAT story — to the Attorney General, maybe? :^)

===Elmendorf sure got his “nothing wrong happened” disclaimer up on his web site pretty quick===
He has to know he has ruined his credibility on this and anything in the future. Obama can’t quote CBO numbers that favor his proposals without this meeting being mentioned. I don’t think it is Obama’s fault Elmendorf is stupid, but it is Obama’s fault he used that stupidity.

===Posted by: geecee | Jul 22, 2009 3:03:18 PM===
Ewww…add Cheney to the magic word list. We are now up to Bush, Cheney, Iraq, Fox.

“Posted by: Axey | Jul 22, 2009 3:05:55 PM”
So what is your opinion on Cheney telling the CIA to hide the assassination program from Congressional oversight?

drjohn:”Obama promises no signing statements”
“We are not going to use signing statements as a way of doing an end run around Congress” is the strongest ‘pledge’ I found by Obama. And that does not contradict his written position. Condemn him for being a politician qualifying his every comment, sure thing. But Obama knew what he was saying – and it was not a blanket promise to never use them (John McCain did actually offer such an explicit, unqualified statement).
I hardly think that matters though. The poor-English-comprehension camp are proudly in the Republican “real Americuns” camp anyhow.

===So what is your opinion on Cheney telling the CIA to hide the assassination program from Congressional oversight? ===
That he knew it would leak to the NYTs in less than 3 weeks if Congress knew about it? Oh wait, it did leak, in 2002. My opinion is Cheney rocks and I miss him every day since he has been gone.

“You didn’t deny it.”
ROFLMAO!

===I hardly think that matters though===
::grin:: No one really thought you would.

dip noir . …
If meeting with the President was outside of his mandate or in any way a conflict of interest Elmendorf could have, and should have, simply declined the invitation.
This was not the case.
From his blog, it appears he was quite willing to participate and found the meeting productive.
wolf! wolf! wolf!

=== I like to think that lurkers reading appreciate the verifiable citations and reality-supported opinions I provide. ===
I’m sure you do. I like to think they appreciate your cutting remarks about republicans and anything Bush/Cheney more.

“That he knew it would leak to the NYTs in less than 3 weeks if Congress knew about it”
ROFLMAO!
The right wing is so pathetic.
Secret assasination program specifically instructed to be kept from Congressional oversight – good.
Open 1 hour meeting with CBO – nefarious.

“If meeting with the President was outside of his mandate or in any way a conflict of interest Elmendorf could have, and should have, simply declined the invitation.”
Get a clue: NO government employee can blow off a summons from the White House.

“The casual racism by Republicans should not longer be shocking.”
Here we go again…

===Open 1 hour meeting with CBO – nefarious.
Posted by: Ryan C | Jul 22, 2009 3:24:53 PM===
Now you get it!

“Get a clue: NO government employee can blow off a summons from the White House.”
________________________________
If it is a direct conflict of interest, or there are laws or rules against it . . . of course they can.
This was not forbidden, or a conflict of interest, nor were there rules or laws against it.
This is simply the Republicans stirring up garbage controversies.
wolf! wolf! wolf!

You can be sure Obama gave him a tongue lashing.

The digital brown shirt trifecta is out in force this afternoon…

Tapper did a nice job of summarizing the first part of the CBO’s role in government from their webpage. And Elmendorf did a nice job summarizing his participation in the Obama meeting…especially the part about
‘discussing various policy options that could provide cost savings’.
However, everyone seems to be ignoring the following statement from that section on its role in government at the CBO website … and a crucial statement it is:
“CBO assists the House and Senate Budget Committees, and the Congress more generally, by preparing reports and analyses. In accordance with the CBO’s mandate to provide objective and impartial analysis, CBO’s reports contain no policy recommendations.”
In other words, the CBO’s job is to assist CONGRESS. And to preserve independence, the CBO does not have a policy purpose. The CBO doesn’t make policy, doesn’t recommend policy, doesn’t discuss policy.
Obama made an endrun around the ‘intent’ of the law that created the CBO. But what’s new? Not the first end run…and won’t be the last.

You, of course, absolve the Chief Executive of any guilt in the matter….despite the fact that he is CHIEF EXECUTIVE and it was HE who instigated the meeting.
Posted by: paul | Jul 22, 2009 3:34:49 PM
_______________________________
And the timing stinks as opposition to the Plan is growing on both sides of the aisle as well as in the public view. And his statement that it will get done before “recess” is flopping in the wind. He’s desperate, angry and possibly vindictive. I doubt that he cares about the CBO anyway. Numbers are never going to fall in his favor with the CBO. Maybe his goal all along was to discredit them knowing Elmendorf would have to show up.

“The digital brown shirt trifecta is out in force this afternoon…”
Trifecta? Bad choice of words.
“He had always listed, throughout his campaign and since, the reasons why the nation might depart from this policy, reasons he had given as acceptable for running fiscal deficits: for war, recession, or emergency. As he said to me in mid-September, “Lucky me. I hit the trifecta.”

Its a bad day for the liberals….Polls showing support for the HR3200 going down, down, down….
So now its time to breakout the tried & true diversion tactics….
Bush did this, Cheney did that, the republicans controlled all of creation for 8 yrs,…. etc….
hey can someone put on MJ’s Thriller so Ryan_C, jhw & danita can all dance like the zombies they are…
come on now….you know you want to….

“Trifecta? Bad choice of words.”
Trifecta = Ryan C, Danita, jhw

“What is the definition of insanity again?”
Thinking “racism” has anything to do with Obama’s having put His own butt in a sling is the definition of insanity.

This meeting was so clearly wrong… so manifestly wrong, so wrong on its face, it amazes me that even Danita and Ryan won’t admiit it and move on…
If it had been Mr. Bush, the Dems would be absolutley apopletic and demanded the very head of the CBO administrator for coopreating. There would have been no end to the hysteria.

Go ahead and produce even a SHRED of evidence a meeting between the President and the director of the CBO broke any government rules or regulations WHATSOEVER.
Without this, your smear tactics are just that. What an embarrassment the right has become to fair, clear-thinking Americans.

“I know – we even asked to have it removed.”
Where did you ask that?

“If it had been Mr. Bush, the Dems would be absolutley apopletic and demanded the very head of the CBO administrator for coopreating.”
So what would the right wing reaction be to Bush meeting with the CBO?

“If it had been Mr. Bush, the Dems would be absolutley apopletic and demanded the very head of the CBO administrator for coopreating.”
So what would the right wing reaction be to Bush meeting with the CBO?
Posted by: Ryan C
————————————-
I think we are getting close to an
“It’s my ball and I’m going home”
moment here . . . LOL

Hi Ryan,
You said: ‘So what would the right wing reaction be to Bush meeting with the CBO?’
So you are admitting the meeting was wrong and you are just engaging from a partisan view point because thats’ what the right-wingers would do?

You can be sure Obama gave him a tongue lashing.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 22, 2009 3:33:31 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nah, too early for that when playing Chicago politics. First you invite them to your impressive offices. Make them feel they’re important to you. Then, you ask them what their views are so they think you’re really interested in what they have to say and that, just maybe, you’ll take their advice into consideration. Make them feel you think they’re really smart. Elendorf is all ready falling for the “charm” by admitting how jealous his kids will be when they find out the President “called on him.” Yeah kids, see how important daddy is?”
The tongue lashing will only come if and when Mr. Elendorf loses his integrity to remain independent. Even then, if/when it happens it won’t be a tongue lashing. It will be Obama minions smearing him, just like they did the IG. The media will assist by spreading the smear. We’ve all seen this movie.

“Without this, your smear tactics are just that. What an embarrassment the right has become to fair, clear-thinking Americans.”
Its all they have danita.
Their ideas were exposed by the GOP congress and Bush as miserable failures.
Posted by: Ryan C | Jul 22, 2009 3:54:57 PM
_____________________________________
I’m sorry: fair, clear-thinking Americans?
You mean like the lady at the Florida “townhall” who mouthed the words “I love you Barack” or the guy who praised His Holiness. How about the idiots who voted for Obama but can’t remember the Vice President’s name? Or the Americans who don’t know who Pelosi is?
Those fair, clear-thinking Americans?

“So you are admitting the meeting was wrong and you are just engaging from a partisan view point because thats’ what the right-wingers would do?”
Nope just plumbing the depths of the right wing’s contradictory logic and hypocrisy.

What an embarrassment the right has become to fair, clear-thinking Americans
Posted by: danita | Jul 22, 2009 3:59:29 PM
____________________________________
By all means, let’s head over to the DailyKos and see what fair, clear-thinking Americans are saying these days, shall we? You know. The ones that aren’t an embarrassment to the left.

danita,
Surely you dont have to go yet, Keith Olbermann is not on until 8 PM!
Take some time to look into the Treasury Depts issues……..
SIGTARP has put out some numbers that are going to make the CBO boys look like they are talking about milk money in 1st grade.

“Nope just plumbing the depths of the right wing’s contradictory logic and hypocrisy.”
Who better to “plumb the depths”…

“Surely you dont have to go yet, Keith Olbermann is not on until 8 PM!”
Who is Keith Olbermann and what is he on at 8 PM?

“Who is Keith Olbermann and what is he on at 8 PM?”
He is Obama-groupie Jonathan Alter’s understudy. He is on a high horse.

I find it hysterical that the Democrats are blaming the CBO for not counting the “benefits” of their programs. It is perhaps the same thing that happened when they passed the Stimulus. The CBO was very cautious and reluctant about its effects, while the Democrats were gleeing with how great the stimulus will save the economy. Perhaps it pays off to be more conservative in predicting the benefits of governmental action, just as the CBO does.
Just because you pass laws does not mean people will suddenly become healthier. Sometimes it seems as if they think they can snap their fingers and the world will change like that.
It’s amazing the assumptions they have, really.

“Rather than ‘everyone knows’, I think the birthers are more concerned with what nobody seems to know… like just about everything concerning the man’s early history…”
Ah, the sad truth… The press was too afraid to ask any hard questions or do any investigative reporting because they were fearful that they would be labeled “racist”.
Their liberal reflection could not let that happen, so they promoted and adored him and did nothing to find out the truth about the man.

“Terry is a birther so its no surprise he/she woudl rely upon the “everyone knows” fallacy.” – Ryan C
You know Ryan, you can now classify me as a “birther” as well. I saw Carville on Larry King last night and when the subject of Obama’s non-existent birth certificate came up, he dismissed it as “crazy” (of course, that’s standard tactics of the left these days) and only WEAKLY offered that there was a birth announcement in the paper to support his position. That’s all he has? That’s all the evidence that exists? That’s NOTHING.
If that is as far as they can go to disprove such a SERIOUS question that millions of citizens are concerned about, well that tells me that they have no American birth certificate. Period. Obama’s not even a legal citizen. Carville has pretty well convinced me of that.

Elmendorf for tomorrow’s news cycle,
“Err, what I meant to say was HR 3200 actually SAVES $1.5 Trillion. It was just a typo! My bad.”
Now, can you please get the Acorn “Muscle For Money” thugs out of my front yard, Mr. President, sir?

they were fearful that they would be labeled “racist”.
Posted by: WhereWasThePress? | Jul 22, 2009 4:36:31 PM
_________________________________
Wouldn’t they be labelled half-racist. Obama is half Caucasian isn’t he?

Why the hurry??? Here’s a thought…What other Federal program takes a portion of your paycheck with a promise to benefits when needed???
Answer..SOCIAL SECURITY…Social Security Trust Fund contributions not used are invested in government securities. The Government uses the invested funds, borrowed, to finance other government spending…UMMMMMMMMMM
What will happen to all those Health Care Premiums….
Just a thought…

Olbermann is a seriously overblown sports buffoon who managed to garner a hour on MSNBC.
He is so far left someday he is going end up on the right. It was he and Chris Matthews who had to be removed from their anchor positions on MSNBC’s election coverage. They were openly biased to Obama in their coverage.

“Obama posted his birth certificate on line.”
Official, actual birth certificate or “certification of live birth”, which is NOT a birth certificate, and you know that. If it’s the actual legal birth certificate, please tell me where I can see it.
“Two separate birth announcements were found in newspapers at that time.”
That is something anyone can have posted in the newspaper just like a wedding announcement. Get real.
“The Obama BC issue has little to do with his paperwork and much more to do with his skin color.
Over and over again the mantra from right wing racists is that Obama is not one of us.”
I’m not right-wing, and you dipping into the racism well once more is utterly pathetic. There are some things you can’t deflect away with ad hominem attacks. It’s a legitimate, IMPORTANT question that has not been answered and it’s quite obvious that you have no genuine answer either.
It’s going to come out eventually, whether it’s in the next three years while he’s still president, or in four years when he leaves office. But it will come out.

Which Alinsky rule advocates labelling those with different views as “racist?”

Well known tactic when your defense is failing throw out the racist accusation to discredit debate…

Couric interviewed Obama earlier this year and asked him about his nominee problems.
Posted by: Ryan C | Jul 22, 2009 5:24:08 PM
__________________________________
Wow, a regular Edward R. Murrow that Katy is.

“Official, actual birth certificate or “certification of live birth”, which is NOT a birth certificate, and you know that. If it’s the actual legal birth certificate, please tell me where I can see it.”
Both fact check.org and politifact have it on their websites.
The COLB is what Hawaii issues when you request you birth certificate. In fact its what many states issue. (in fact a couple of birther state reps tried to have COLB use banned for documentation until they realized that is all MO issued….birthers are also very stupid)
Its a perfectly legal document that would be accepted by the State dept for passports and like situations.
“That is something anyone can have posted in the newspaper just like a wedding announcement. Get real.”
Nope. That is information from the Hawaiian records dept. Which is why every single announcement has the same base information.
“I’m not right-wing,”
The lady doth protest too much.
“and you dipping into the racism well once more is utterly pathetic. ”
Hey racism and the birther movement go hand in hand.
“It’s a legitimate, IMPORTANT question that has not been answered and it’s quite obvious that you have no genuine answer either.”
He posted his birth certificate. Two fact check organizations reviewed it. There’s even two announcement from newspapers at the time.

Hi Ryan,
You said: Obama posted his birth certificate on line.
Actually, no he didn’t. What is posted on line is a recently computer generated abstract called a “Certification of Live Birth.” What is requested is the ‘long form Certificate of Live Birth which lists the hospital name, doctor’s name, etc.
You also said:
“Two separate birth announcements were found in newspapers at that time.”
Yes, and you will notice they are worded exactly the same as the other notices before and after. In those days the county records deparetment routinely released this information to be published in the newspaper. So when Mrs. Obama registered the birth, the county records department release the information and the newpapers published.
No one really disputes that there is a birth certificate on file in Honolulu. People just wonder why Mr. Obama won’t release a copy of it…

“You said: Obama posted his birth certificate on line.
Actually, no he didn’t. What is posted on line is a recently computer generated abstract called a “Certification of Live Birth.”
A certification of live birth is a birth certificate.
When you request your birth certificate from Hawaii that is what they issue.
They do not issue any long form birth certificates.
“Yes, and you will notice they are worded exactly the same as the other notices before and after. In those days the county records deparetment routinely released this information to be published in the newspaper. So when Mrs. Obama registered the birth, the county records department release the information and the newpapers published.”
Wow a little truth seeps thru.

Our Katy:
“You’re so confident, Mr. President, and so focused. Is your confidence ever shaken? Do you ever wake up and say, ‘Damn, this is hard’.”
I am not making that up. Even though it looks like a parody.

“All I could find was the certificate of live birth. I asked you to point me to the legal birth certificate -”
The COLB is a legal birth certificate. Its the only 1 issued by Hawaii when requested.
“you know the one signed by the doctor, and that lists the hospital where the birth took place. I can’t seem to find that VERY pertinent information for some reason.”
The doctors signature and hospital are pertinent information?

Someone ought to inform President
Obama that We Don’t have Dictators here!
The majority of the American people do
not want the Universal Plan he and the
Dems are pushing in Congress.
We want reform but not the reform
Obama is proposing.
Our president is supposed to do the
will of the people not vice versa!

paul . ..
If you haven’t noticed racist comments posted here, you haven’t been paying attention.
I’ve been coming here for months and have seen scores of racist comments.
Guess what? Racists comments exist . .. and they get posted to this blog. So, stop your ‘golly gee’ nonsense.

My apologies: I need to correct my previous post. It was not Nancy Pelosi who was accused by the president of the BCC of making racial comments, it was Senator Barbara Boxer.

Ryan,
Racism is racism. Party affiliation doesn’t matter. No one party owns the corner on it.

=========================
= OBAMA WILL BULLY EVERYONE WHO
= GETS IN HIS WAY
=========================
Including the Congressional Budget Office

Can he be impeached for putting forth a bill that would enter your home, and decide if you are too old or too sick to receive treatments?
If this style of government suits you, then you should move to the EU…as for this Country, it was never founded upon anything like we see coming out of D.C. now!

“Law Enforcement” enables this swill.

You do not need an “attending physician signature”. The State Department website makes no request for that information.
I called up the State Department. I asked them if they would take a COLB and they originally said no. I told them that is what the State of Hawaii issues these days. The lady named several things that had to be on the certificate – which were all on Obama’s COLB image. She then told me the document would be allowable.
She made no mention of needing an “attending physician signature” and there is no mention of that on the website application information.