By Caitlin Taylor

Jul 30, 2009 8:15am

The Note: Summits & Slippage — Obama Talks, But is Public Listening?

By RICK KLEIN President Obama has some national conversations going. That doesn’t mean he’s going to like what ends up being said. As surely as beers on the White House lawn won’t solve racism, the latest deals reached in the House and Senate won’t make health care reform happen. Those deals mark progress, but they should be cast in the same light as the beer summit (minus the liquid geopolitics): Manufactured events, solving short-term problems more than long-term issues. If the pieces come together as Democratic leaders want, they’ll have something — actual bills, through actual committees — to point to as progress when the air wars of August begin. Yet the president’s larger problem on health care remains: Liberals and conservatives, both Democrats and Republicans, just plain disagree with him about the urgency and the solutions. And the public isn’t convinced: While Obama presses his case, new information flowing into the political formula has helped the other side of the debate. If members of Congress were queasy before, every round of polling gives them more reason to delay, or just refuse. New polls tell the story, again: “President Obama’s ability to shape the debate on health care appears to be eroding as opponents aggressively portray his overhaul plan as a government takeover that could limit Americans’ ability to choose their doctors and course of treatment, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll,” Adam Nagourney and Megan Thee-Brenan write in the Times.  “The percentage who describe health care costs as a serious threat to the American economy — a central argument made by Mr. Obama — has dropped over the past month,” they write. “Mr. Obama’s job approval rating has dropped 10 points, to 58 percent, from a high point in April.” Time magazine poll: “By significant margins, survey respondents said they believe the final health-reform legislation is likely to raise health-care costs in the long run (62%), make everything about health care more complicated (65%) and offer less freedom to choose doctors and coverage (56%),” Michael Scherer writes.  A third poll, to make it a trend: “Support for President Barack Obama's health-care effort has declined over the past five weeks, particularly among those who already have insurance, a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll found, amid prolonged debate over costs and quality of care,” the Journal’s Laura Meckler writes. “In the new poll, conducted July 24 to July 27, 42% called it a bad idea while 36% said it was a good idea. Among those with insurance, the proportion calling the plan a bad idea rose to 47% from 37%.”  The president tells Time’s Karen Tumulty that nobody’s tried anything “of this magnitude” since LBJ: As for the polls: “I don't spend a lot of time looking at my polls. I do look at the polling on health care, partly because I think that there is a terrific case to be made to the American public. But it is — this is complicated, it's difficult,” the president said. “And I will say that this has been the most difficult test for me so far in public life, trying to describe in clear, simple terms how important it is that we reform this system. The case is so clear to me.”  On why it’s now referred to as “health insurance reform”: “Well, I think partly because we're just trying to provide some additional definition.” Think he reads the polls? Karl Rove, in The Wall Street Journal: “Facing numbers like these, Mr. Obama is dropping his high-minded rhetoric and instead trying to scare voters. . . . This is not a healthy way to wage a policy debate. It also risks making the president look desperate at a time when his proposals are looking increasingly too expensive for Americans to accept.”  The case for urgency is not yet made: “One of the most difficult things to do in a democracy is react to a problem that is real, but not immediately threatening. Obama is trying to do this in two monster areas, health care and climate change,” Time’s Joe Klein writes.  Where he’s not quite LBJ: “President Obama has been surprisingly reticent about explaining his vision for health care reform,” Princeton history professor Julian Zelizer writes for The New York Times. “The problem is that he has neglected to keep working on the message.”  The state of play: “House Democrats appear to have made a breakthrough on a health care reform bill [Wednesday] by resolving differences within their own party, keeping President Barack Obama's hope alive for substantial progress before lawmakers take their summer break,” ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf, Dean Norland, Kate Barrett, and Lindsey Ellerson report.  And yet: “I heard from key negotiators in both the House and the Senate side who said, 'Don't be surprised if we don't finish this until Christmas,’ ” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos reported Wednesday on “World News.” “No guarantees, but we’re farther along,” Stephanopoulos said on “Good Morning America” Thursday. “What you’re learning, though, is that whatever health care bill emerges . . . will be smaller, will cost less, will have less government involvement than some of the original plans suggested.” “This bill, even in the best-case scenario, will not be signed — we won't even vote on it probably until the end of September or the middle of October,” Obama said at a town hall meeting in Raleigh, N.C., per ABC’s John Hendren, Karen Travers, and Jon Garcia.  No votes for a while, yet “the agreement comes at a crucial time for Obama and his congressional allies,” Noam N. Levey and Janet Hook report in the Los Angeles Times. “The fiscally conservative Democrats had blocked progress on the legislation in Waxman's committee for more than a week, threatening to leave House discussions in disarray as lawmakers prepared to leave town for their August recess.”  “The American people are ready for us to slow down and . . . read what we are voting on,” Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., tells The Washington Post’s Lois Romano.  But: “The weakening of the public insurance option incensed some liberal Members, with Congressional Progressive Caucus Co-Chairwoman Lynn Woolsey (D-Calif.) declaring she would vote against the bill,” Roll Call’s Steven T. Dennis and David M. Drucker report. “More resistance came from within the Blue Dog Coalition itself, with some in the 52-member bloc saying the plan still costs too much.”  “I think this completely cripples the public option,” Rep. Raul M. Grijalva (D-Ariz.), co-chairman of the Progressive Caucus, tells The Washington Post’s Paul Kane and Shailagh Murray.   ”House Speaker Nancy Pelosi spent half of Wednesday finalizing a deal with the Blue Dogs — and the other half quelling a brewing rebellion among progressives who think conservatives have hijacked health care reform,” Politico’s Glenn Thrush reports. “Liberals, Hispanics and African-American members — Pelosi’s most loyal base of support — are feeling betrayed after House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) reached an agreement with four of seven Blue Dogs on his committee who had been bottling up the bill over concerns about cost.”  In the Senate — a Congressional Budget Office score of only (yes, only) $900 billion. “The group still has not announced a final deal, but this type of cost analysis is sure to move the debate forward (and to inform what happens in the internecine health reform cost battle that has beset Democrats in the House),” ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf reports.  Upshots: “A House leadership deal with Blue Dogs and an aggressive marketing push by Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) shifted the healthcare debate sharply toward centrist positions Wednesday, sparking threats of rebellion from the left,” The Hill’s Mike Soraghan, Jeffrey Young and Jared Allen report.  Coming to a TV near you: “The healthcare overhaul fight in Washington is bursting into America’s livingrooms, and interests from many bands on the political spectrum are trying to transform an often wonky debate over 1,000-page bills into an emotional pitch that can be captured in 30 seconds,” Lisa Wangsness writes in The Boston Globe. “The airwaves blitz is intensifying as Congress prepares to return home for its monthlong summer recess without having cast crucial first-round votes on legislation. Political parties, unions, consumer groups, the healthcare industry, and disease activists see the next six weeks as pivotal in driving public opinion and influencing lawmakers’ votes on healthcare legislation this fall.”  As for the Audacity of Hops — Sgt. Joseph Crowley and Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. join President Obama for a beer outside the Oval Office at 6 pm ET Thursday. The incessantly overanalyzed menu is Red, Lite, and Blue — as in Red Stripe for the professor, Bud Light for the president, and Blue Moon for the officer, per ABC’s Scott Mayerowitz.  “Cold beers on a hot night, with a topic that could be scorching,” ABC’s Jake Tapper said on “Good Morning America” Thursday. And the Gates and Crowley families will get tours of the White House, Tapper reports. The event is delicate for the president in that it’s his creation — he elevated the arrest by commenting on it at his press conference, and he kept the story alive by suggested a beer summit. “Today is the moment that they hope closes this whole conversation down,” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos said on “GMA.” “The American struggle with race flashed back into the national debate when Obama — the country's first black president — inserted himself into the angry give-and-take between the policeman and the professor,” per the AP’s Steven R. Hurst. “That was in stark contrast to Obama's history-making run for the presidency, when he was at pains to play down race, prompting some to call him a post-racial candidate.”  “Obama is usually so careful with language, and so attuned to the sensitivities of race, that watching him blow this answer was like seeing Larry Bird miss a free throw,” Margaret Carlson writes in her Bloomberg News column. “What happened on that Cambridge porch traveled to a press conference in the East Room of the White House and now ends at a picnic table on the lawn a few feet away. Obama can’t promise a Rose Garden but he can offer two people, both decent, both misguided that summer morning, a place to raise a glass to seeing life from both sides now.”  As for the business end of those pints: “The president's plan to toss back a few cold ones with some high-profile guests at the White House has the American beer industry hopping mad,” The Wall Street Journal’s Robert Tomsho reports. “The problem is that all three beers are products of foreign companies. Red Stripe is brewed by London-based Diageo PLC. Blue Moon is sold by a joint venture in which London-based SABMiller has a majority stake. And Bud Light? It is made by Anheuser-Busch — which is now known as Anseuser-Busch InBev NV after getting bought last year by a giant Belgian-Brazilian company.”  What works better for a couple of Massachusetts residents than a Bay State beer? “Not knowing the preferences of those invited, I would like to suggest you serve a beer from the largest American-owned brewing company; that being Sam Adams,” Rep. Richard Neal, D-Mass., wrote in a letter to the president Wednesday. “We both share a common interest in fostering the success of American-headquartered companies.”  Six months into the job, Attorney General Eric Holder sits down with ABC’s Pierre Thomas.  On whether investigations of Bush-era abuses are possible: “We want to move forward. We don't want to look back in that regard,” Holder said. “My obligation as the head of the Justice Department is to make sure that the laws are followed and to the extent that we find that laws were broken, to hold people accountable.” "I think the department, at least some of the people who worked, simply lost their way," he said, citing tactics like waterboarding, which he considers torture. "I will follow the facts and the law wherever it takes me." And on the future for detainees: “The possibility exists that there could be people who are held in a preventative way under the laws of war," Holder said. “I think that by closing Guantanamo, by prosecuting people, be it in Article III courts, or in military commissions, we will make the American people safer than they are now.”  Your Business Week headline: “Obama Tells BW He's Not Antibusiness.”  Part of what the president said: “I will tell you that if you talk to ordinary Americans right now, they feel at least as cynical about business as they are about government. And part of my motivation here is to channel what is going to be, I think, a lot of populist energy in a constructive way that does not end up preventing us from continuing to be the most dynamic, innovative economy.”  House Minority Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., takes on the czar culture: “By appointing a virtual army of ‘czars’ — each wholly unaccountable to Congress yet tasked with spearheading major policy efforts for the White House — in his first six months, the president has embarked on an end-run around the legislative branch of historic proportions,” Cantor writes in a Washington Post op-ed. “At last count, there were at least 32 active czars that we knew of, meaning the current administration has more czars than Imperial Russia.”  Get ready for a special election in Texas — and, before that, a chance for Gov. Rick Perry, R-Texas, to choose his rival’s replacement: “The Republican race for governor devolved into a schoolyard taunt of who should be the quitter Wednesday, after Kay Bailey Hutchison said that she would resign her Senate seat within four months to challenge Rick Perry full-time,” Christy Hoppe reports for The Dallas Morning News. “Resigning her Senate seat will leave her rival with the plum task of hand-picking her successor. But it will untether her from difficult votes and the Washington commute so that she can devote herself to the campaign.”  Coming Thursday: a hearing on Fair Elections: “On Thursday, July 30th, the Committee on House Administration will hear testimony on a new plan to overhaul the nation’s campaign finance system and end candidates’ longstanding reliance on special interest contributions. The bipartisan, bicameral Fair Elections Now Act (HR 1826), introduced by Congressmen John Larson (D-CT) and Walter Jones (R-NC), would provide public grant and matching funds to qualifying candidates who raise a minimum of 1,500 small donations from their constituents in amounts of $100 or less.”
The Kicker: “We would hope they would pick a family-owned, American beer to lubricate the conversation.” — Bill Manley, spokesman for the Sierra Nevada Brewing Co.  “We just hope the next time the President has a beer, he chooses an American beer, made by American workers, and an American-owned brewery like Genesee.” — Statement from Genesee Brewery of Rochester, N.Y.
Today on the “Top Line” political Webcast, live at noon ET: House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, D-S.C.; and Paul Brathwaite of the Podesta Group. Follow The Note on Twitter: http://twitter.com/thenote For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:

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User Comments

The American public should take a hard look first at those that claim to represent them as Senators and Members of Congress as MOST of them have NOT read or even understand the proposed health care bill.
We already have Government Health Care Plans. Medicaid and our veterans plan, both of which are out of control cost wise, so to think that yet another Government run plan would fix the problem is stupidity at its height.
Take the lawyers and law suits out of Health Care and the current plans would continue to work even better. Have yet to see any Americans going to England, Cuba, Canada, France or Russia for health care treatments.
Seems more like a Democrat Political decision and desire from the President on down to get the illegal aliens (12-15 million) health care benefits along with their illegal votes.

Posted by: peterclarke | July 30, 2009, 8:38 am 8:38 am

I BELIEVE PRES. O IS TRYING TO SHOVE HIS BELIEFS DOWN OUR THROATS. HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN WILL BE DETRIMENTAL TO ALL OF US, INSURED AND UNINSURED.HIS ARROGANCE IS SHOWING UP MORE AND MORE ON A DAILY BASIS… IN EVERY ONE OF HIS SPEECHES….HE DOES NOT, I REPEAT, DOES NOT KNOW ALL THINGS AND DOES NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. HIS HEALTH CARE WILL ELIMINATE BABIES AND THE ELDERLY, SLOWLY BUT SURELY VIA HIS POLICIES. ABORTIONS #1 AND REVISING #2 MEDICARE. BYE BYE BABIES AND ELDERLY AND THE SICK WHO ARE NOT WORTH THEIR SALT TO BIG “O”.WAKE UP! AMERICA! BIG “O” IS DRAGGING YOU ALL DOWN THE WRONG PATH/PATHS….WE HAVE A GREAT COUNTRY…DON’T LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU OTHERWISE! GOD BLESS AMERICA, THE LAND THAT I LOVE. STAND BESIDE HER ALWAYS! I WILL!

Posted by: JeanneTherese | July 30, 2009, 8:52 am 8:52 am

The rapid developments in Congress concerning reform have essentially stripped Republicans of any valid argument against reform. Even the cost of their “alternative” plan is nearly identical to the new Dem plans.

Posted by: matt | July 30, 2009, 9:08 am 9:08 am

Health care co-ops, consortiums, etc are just ways to disguise the public option, putting this lipstick on this pig plan will not fool the American people. Americans need to phone , write or visit their congressional representatives to oppose this public option that will only shift health care from one population group to a more politically “desirable” population group. AARP do not throw seniors under the bus, do not back this! The answer to reform is to pass one significant change at a time. 1). tort reform, 2)no prexisting condition denial 3) no rationing based on age, creed, ethnicity, color. etc. 4) illegal aliens not allowed (only lifesaving treatment with prompt return to country of origin 5) no government paid abortions or euthanasia , then revisit results of tweaking the system. CONGRESS, HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF READING AND STRATEGIC PLANNING?

Posted by: Downwithsocialism | July 30, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am

Check out snopes.com and search for Pravda even Russia sees that this great nation is free falling to Marxism. We have been lobamatized…time for the great one to step down and let a true patriot lead America.

Posted by: CWG | July 30, 2009, 9:56 am 9:56 am

It is my understanding that this Puppet in Office has not even read through the 1,000 page healthcare proposal. He’s just doing what he was told to do…

Posted by: artinthewild | July 30, 2009, 10:17 am 10:17 am

Ever notice they only sell mostly the lousy beer at a ball game? Let me put it to you this way. Obama is a lot like a Bud Light. The reason Bud Light is said to be the best selling beer/most popular in America is it is forced on people at football/baseball games at the concessions. Its someone elses bad choice being forced upon the public. They sell tons of it at ball games as waiting on line for a Bud Light is quicker than waiting 10 minutes to get a Bud or Miller. Bud Light tastes bad. You expect it to taste like a Budweiser and instead you get this awful watery beer that leaves a horrible aftertaste in your mouth (much like Obama) its a big disappointment. At a party its the last of the beer to be drank from the cooler. Someone elses poor choice forced on you by someone else. Obama is the Bud Light of black leaders a Budweiser would be like Martin Luther King of beers junior. Its a bad choice propogated on you by the media and big corporations (again like Obama) they want you to think Bud Light is great. Bottom line is neither Bud Light or Obama are any good. They are both something you didnt want and got stuck with because of someone elses either poor choice or intentionally bad choice

Posted by: guesswhaturwrong | July 30, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am

peterclarke | Jul 30, 2009 8:38:10 AM
You say; … “Seems more like a Democrat Political decision and desire from the President on down to get the illegal aliens (12-15 million) health care benefits along with their illegal votes.”
____________
You offer a viable argument UNTIL you lower the quality of your argument with the “unsupported, cynical, illegal alien remarks.”

Posted by: bobj72 | July 30, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am

As a former small businessman (restaurant owner). I know that a restaurant that grosses 300,000 a year makes the owner less than 60,000 a year. To have to pay healthcare or a penalty tax would put them out of business. Not to mention this would also give welfare entitled people no incentive to want to work.

Posted by: rockon | July 30, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 28% of the nation’s voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -12. That’s the lowest rating yet recorded for President Obama.

Posted by: CWG | July 30, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am

As America learns more and more about the catch phrases and partial truths this attorney/president uses, pretty words that sound like they mean something wonderful but really mean something totally repulsive to free men who love living in a free country, his visions are being rebelled against and his approval ratings are dropping.

Posted by: marilynmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 11:21 am 11:21 am

peterclarke; Must agree with Bobj72 on your post. There are many legal citizens who are without healthcare insurance. However, I do agree that the illegals have no rights, are expensive for the legitimate workers in America to support and should be removed ASAP. If that was your point about the illegal aliens, I agree, but those who are US citizens need healthcare, too. Those of us who are currently insured need healthcare reform, too. Costs are too high and escalating. Somewhere between not changing the system and going to a government healthcare plan there are good ideas. We need to take the time to fix the causes before we rush into massive expenditures. I know there are lots of people waiting for relief, but they are waiting in hospital emergency rooms as they have done for years. It’s not as if medical care is unavailable to them.

Posted by: marilynmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 11:32 am 11:32 am

I “hope for change” in 2010 and 2012

Posted by: notanobamafan | July 30, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am

I FEEL SORRY for Sgt. Crowley having to sit down with 2 racists. Hope someone has a tape recorder going.

Posted by: Ron | July 30, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am

President Obama’s gesture of sharing drink and conversation is a bigger message – start to address race relations on a national scale.
The White House should act as a model for the country – in public policy and domestic & international relations.
Relations will never improve if people do not sit and talk about their perceptions & differences–they’ll usually find some commonalities.

Posted by: gus amaral | July 30, 2009, 11:59 am 11:59 am

With a -12 Approval rating…having a beer with an angry black man and an officer of the law should really help him! HA!!

Posted by: CWG | July 30, 2009, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm

devilkev,
Interesting picture you paint with that big liberal brush. Let us just forget all the Dems who pocket $$$ from those in the current system for a moment ( As you did), It does not matter what plan the Republicans come up with, its not going even see a vote and we all know that. The dems have ALL the cards, the question is do any of them know what game is being played?
The real problem with anthing either side has put forth so far is that once revealed to the light of reality, all the holes in the fantasy show up.
Now, most Americans are not buying the sky is falling routine anymore. Especially the older segment of our population because they are convinced it will be them who end up with the shortend of this scheme.

Posted by: Mike_C | July 30, 2009, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

30 postings and no constructive arguments about other options. Sadly, I don’t really have one either but am going to try to get the context right on this debate.
Is the status quo working for everyone? Health Insurance and Health Care costs are rising at rates significantly above inflation. Why? Part of the reason is insurance companies are money making machines, not care providers. They are incentivized to not pay, its a liability/cost therefore a negative drag on profits. So much of this is about helping those companies protect their profits yet cover more people at lower costs. More volume at lower cost equals similar macro level profits (not margin of course but investers are only tangentially concerned with margin provided the companys revenues exceed their costs).
40-60 million people are without insurance. Some percentage of those pay for care out of their own pocket based on their income. Many of those are making a choice not to have insurance because it is more expensive then the cost of care they receive. Forcing them in to a system and making things worse for those of us with decent coverage makes no sense. EXCEPT if you think about it in the context of the insurance company profits…
If you think Congress is motivated by a genuine interest in helping the citizenry, think again. We do not make campaign contributions, corporations do. If those congress people and senators don’t do what the insurance execs want them to do, the insurance execs will find someone else who will and get the current person defeated in the next election.
With respect to those commenting on illegals. Let me ask this, why not get all those people on the payroll and make them pay taxes like the rest of us? This whole concept of righteousness with respect to how you got in the country is honestly silly. If we had 20 million more tax payers who are ALREADY receiving the benefits of our infrastructure and social services but not paying for them on the payroll, wouldn’t that help eliminate some of our funding issues? If we find there are criminals in the group, either arrest them or deport them. The rest, get em on the payroll legally and move on. Most illegals are so afraid of being deported they keep a low profile and do no harm.
PS the businesses they work for are also not paying payroll taxes on that group…

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Today on the “Top Line” political Webcast, live at noon ET: House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, D-S.C.; and Paul Brathwaite of the Podesta Group…….. Well you might as well have all the team , MOVEON, ACORN, and & Hells Bells just have Nancy too!!!

Posted by: pauldia | July 30, 2009, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm

Angry but well stated gus amaral. Frankly speaking, globalization of commoditized services (tech support, manufactoring, etc…) is no different than illegals coming here to take low end jobs, its just that we don’t see or have to support the infrastruture of those other countries in a visible way. The whole debate is silly to me. Get em on the payroll I say. I would bet the citizenry of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and California would be perfectly fine with more mexican americans if they were paying taxes every paycheck.
Maybe not, maybe this is simply a racists debate for today? Turn of the 20th century, Americans were complaining about the Irish and Italians (Irish need not apply), in the 60′s, 70′s and 80′s, the southeast asians, in the 90′s – Somali’s and Kenyan’s, today its Mexicans. Games the same, just the names have changed. Get over it people, we are a nation of immigrants. What ever happened to the “Give us your poor, tired, huddled masses”?

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 12:24 pm 12:24 pm

I couldn’t care less.

Posted by: LongT | July 30, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm

gus amaral; You are no doubt partially correct in saying the illegals are allowed to stay because they provide cheap labor. That doesn’t make them any more legal. Their removal should have been and still needs to be funded. Our nation’s failure to enforce its immigration laws is both expensive to the taxpayer and dangerous to our national security.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 12:33 pm 12:33 pm

gus amaral; We’ve been discussing race for over 50 years now and have made no progress in the minds of the older blacks who truly suffered discrimination and overcame being second rate citizens. Equality and even preferential treatment has been attained by the blacks in America. In these times it’s people like professor Gates who are perpetuating racial hatred. It’s the hate filled old school blacks who will have no prominance anymore if the race issue goes away that perpetuate racial issues.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Now everyone can see why barracks handler scripted almost everything barrack said thru the teleprompter.
Off prompter, the truth would slipped out.

Posted by: Reality2009 | July 30, 2009, 12:42 pm 12:42 pm

Maybe after reading some of the highly critical comments regarding the importance of addressing healthcare reform, we Americans deserve to continue being fleeced by the insurance companies who continue to grow more wealthy and robbed by the big drug makers and watch as though blind as the problem destroys our potential earnings through inaction because we’re so dumb.

Posted by: clever bob | July 30, 2009, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm

It would help if the major news agencies would report more of the news, instead of their commentary on their cherry-picked “news” items that they suppose will generate ratings!

Posted by: Karen | July 30, 2009, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm

Now we are getting somewhere with constructive discussion.
Completely agree with Clever Bob about people not paying attention. Hopefully you are in the group that does (assume so from your comments). That should put you in the “have” as opposed to the “have not” group. I’ve worked in human resources for nearly 20 years now, coming at it from a business not social services perspective and am continually shocked by the lack of attention people pay to how the tax policies, insurance programs and the like impact their personal bottom lines.
The game being played is understood only by politicians and business people. The average citizen can’t be bothered. Then wonders how we end up where we are… Sad really.
Race relations ARE better but I think the debate happening now is good for the country. Professor Gates likely approached the interaction in an inappropriate way, the Office appears to have been a little more strident than he should have been in his reaction AND the President probably should not have said what he did. That said, as the first black president, do you think saying “Gee, I just don’t have all the facts here so would prefer not to weigh on in the interaction between a private citizen (whom I know) and the Police.”? I mean, lets get real, he can not do that. Bush and Clinton could have but Obama is expected to have an opinion on race matters.
To the person who commented regarding a teleprompter, 99.9% of what ALL politicians say is scripted. Bush 43 had exactly 1 press conference in his 8 years in office and virtually no unscripted moments. At least Obama is giving it a go. He is human however and will make mistakes. Frankly, I would rather have that then never seeing him be “in the moment”. I am not defending him as I think he spoke poorly and he has acknowledge that but the comment is straight out of Fox News. Lets talk about what he is saying, not this ancillary stuff…

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm

To address the a perception that illegals are “taking our health care”:
Healthcare profit goes to the corporate healthcare providers, who continue to freely profit from the unemployed, underinsured and by rationing care to the insured.
An op-ed piece in the Providence Journal reports the pay package for a healthcare corporate CEO:
$124.8 million total compensation of United Health Group (parent of United Healthcare) CEO William McGuire. This figure can also be found in the Forbes Special Report on CEO compensation.
How many uninsured/underinsured would this CEO’s yearly salary cover for preventative health in one year?

Posted by: gus amaral | July 30, 2009, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm

JUICE17; Get ‘em on the payroll at least is right. In this country we pay taxes in exchange for whatever freebies we get from the government. In other words, it’s wrong to take more than you give. Hopefully, assuming they get healthcare benefits down the road, they’ll have to register and get an ID card to receive benefits. Then we’ll at least have a record of who lives here.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 2:02 pm 2:02 pm

CWG | Jul 30, 2009 12:04:43 PM
“CWG”, you said; … “With a -12 Approval rating…having a beer with an angry black man and an officer of the law should really help him! HA!!”
___________
Thought at first such a “crude, cynical, race-baiting comment” really warranted a response. But then, realizing you “Buy Into” that “Worthless & Misleading RASMUSSEN PROPAGANDA” – I knew ANY response would be misunderstood and the effort would be in vain!

Posted by: bobj72 | July 30, 2009, 2:31 pm 2:31 pm

gus amaral, the U.S. Government has sanctioned and invited Mexican workers here, going all the way back to WWII. First, the reasoning was to supplement the war-time workforce. Later it was to supplement the agricultural workforce, and also to provide low-cost labor into the light manufacturing sector. And over the nearly 70 years, increasing numbers began to “take up residency, here”, with the authorities gesturing, with “a wink and nod.” So now we have probably 3.5 Generations of Mexican families here, by quasi-invitation from our government, and we’re now trying to figure-out how to resolve “the problem” of the illegal aliens (those persons who we haven’t awarded citizenship to.) The term “Illegal Alien” didn’t become fashionable until the 1970′s. And to think……. the U.S. Government……. started it all. I guess you can call that one: “A HomeMade Problem.”

Posted by: bobj72 | July 30, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

God I hope Obama doesnt live this down. His arrogance needs to be curbed. He acted so stupidly in using the Bully pulpit to try and TEACH us a lesson when its Obama that needs a lesson. Harvard educations must come with a certificate of arrogance. Look at Gates and Obama.

Posted by: ChicagBob | July 30, 2009, 3:18 pm 3:18 pm

Love it Bobj72. I am a huge fan of historical context analysis. So many of these debates are about political gamesmanship. The GOP started this most recent fight about immigration in 2003 with the thought that it would be a stick to beat the Dems with. THEN President Bush comes out and says “well, you know, we had an amnesty program in Texas that worked pretty good when I was Governor” and the whole thing imploded on the Republicans.
This health care debate is interesting from that perspective. Usually, the Republicans are about lower taxes, support for small businesses and rugged individualism. The arguments they are making with respect to what they don’t like about the bills being proposed are so opaque, I can’t even follow them. It seems to me they are only saying “we just don’t like what the President is saying” but have no proposal and no suggestions on how to help the American worker. The Democrats aren’t going to help the American worker either but at least throwing things out there. They are mostly bad ideas and are going to probably hurt my coverage and my company but at least I know what their motivations are, helping insurance companies protect their profits.

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 3:26 pm 3:26 pm

It is amazing the numbers that people come up with as uninsured. Some threw out a number, and everyone else uses it or a larger number!

Posted by: deanbob | July 30, 2009, 4:11 pm 4:11 pm

Why is there no serious discussion about reduced ‘Penalty’ in lawsuits? There’s a serious suggestion that Washington has not dealt with.

Posted by: deanbob | July 30, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm

As for illegals, what wrong with making them do things legally?

Posted by: deanbob | July 30, 2009, 4:13 pm 4:13 pm

It’s more than helping the insurance companies protect their profits. It could turn out that healthcare insurors are government sanctioned. It’s about the government growing the segment of the private sector that provides about 20% of the government’s income in taxes. Biggest lobby group, too, and major campaign contributors to whichever party they want in power. Money talks and BS walks.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | July 30, 2009, 4:20 pm 4:20 pm

Mr. Klein, you are so hopelessly negative and eager to see Obama stumble and fall, it’s tiresome. I’m tired of the media telling me what I should think: I like Obama, I can handle complexity, I don’t see the Gates issue as anything other than an opportunity for the President to display the fact he is not George Bush. We finally have an effective, tuned in, intelligent President, who has managed to move us closer than we ever have to reforming health care. That’s what I see.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | July 30, 2009, 4:38 pm 4:38 pm

deanbob, nothing really in my opinion. Except for the fact they are already here and have been here for a long time in many cases. Sending them “home” and having them apply for visa’s and all of the red tape associated with the process is simply impractical. Parents of children born in the US would be deported for months if not longer, we would be without service workers, agricultural workers, etc… for months and to what end? I agree that enforcement is a good idea. The laws, if enforced effectively, would likely help us be a little safer than we are today. Not demonstrably more safe however, but a little.
I honestly do not understand any of the arguments put forward for immigration reform. They make no sense in the context of business, tax policy, humanistics, safety, or any other context EXCEPT people wanting others to follow the rules. The use of social services provided by the community or government in which they live as an argument to support aggressive tactics could easily be dealt with by making them pay taxes.
The safety argument is most capricious of them all. How hard is it for a previously unknown bad guy to read the publically available requirements for a visa, establish an address and name in a country with friendly relations to the US, secure a visa, come to the US and do their thing? The false sense of security that the “rules” give us is really all this is about. If people actually spent any time thinking about how easy it is to get here in a duplicitious fashion, they would be scared witless.

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 4:40 pm 4:40 pm

Of course we’re listening. I’ll tell you who’s NOT listening. Blue Dogs and GOP conservatives, that’s who. The one who keep quoting statistics from that group that’s part of the HMO that got fined recently. I for one am sick of hearing all that crap. A government option for insurance is important, but how do you stop politians from acting out of personal greed?

Posted by: ticked off | July 30, 2009, 4:59 pm 4:59 pm

bobj72–ok..then show me polls that prove it wrong..Gallap says the same thing. This man is failing fast.

Posted by: CWG | July 30, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm

Juice 17 | Jul 30, 2009 3:26:33 PM
Juice 17, you said; … “The Democrats aren’t going to help the American worker either but at least throwing things out there. They are mostly bad ideas and are going to probably hurt my coverage and my company but at least I know what their motivations are, helping insurance companies protect their profits.”
_____________
Having had an extensive HR worklife, I rather felt a kinship with you as I reviewed your eariler comments. I was in agreement with you until you entered into your conclusion. You are obviously influenced “to the Right”, because of your environment – or maybe it’s not your environment. But the environmental influence generally means; “adhering to the traditional Corporate GOP line”, and if that’s the case, it’s certainly your right. I happened to have had sufficient corporate “Mentor-ship”, which allowed me the opportunity to exercise independent thought, as I executed my influence into the lives of others. As a result, I formulated more of a Moderate/Independent political position. For you to suggest that the Healthcare policy formulation is being manipulated to “help insurance companies protect their profits”, is an IRRESPONSIBLE assertion! Personally I think it’s improper to introduce yourself as an objective professional, only to later project a “Hard-Line, Highly Charged, Political position.” As a professional, I believe you have an obligation to provide Factual Support to such an outlandish assertion. But then again, you don’t owe me anything.

Posted by: bobj72 | July 30, 2009, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm

Posted by: bobj72 | Jul 30, 2009 5:47:35 PM
“For you to suggest that the Healthcare policy formulation is being manipulated to “help insurance companies protect their profits”, is an IRRESPONSIBLE assertion! ”
______________
Bob, count me in as another
suggesting just that.
The debate going on is surely about the profits of large corporations in a for-profit healthcare system. What would be their incentive to provide better quality, comprehensive service and lose profit?

Posted by: gus amaral | July 30, 2009, 6:15 pm 6:15 pm

Hi Bobj, first, thanks for the nice words even though I lost you somewhere. My bad, but lets see if we can’t continue the discussion in a healthy way though.
If anything, I would count myself as guilty of being cynical. I have some sympathy for politicians in the sense that I think they often have the unenviable job of picking between bad and worse options.
Real vote that was supposed to happen today: Do I allow a fighter jet program that is partially built in my district and employees 500 people at the Lockheed Martin plant be terminated because the Air Force and the Secratary of Defense say we don’t need it and that it won’t help win the fights we have today or tomorrow OR do I sponsor and vote for legislation to keep that program alive so those 500 jobs in my district will be retained. Bad and worse options. This exact fight is in front of congress and they were expected to vote today on appropriations that will continue to fund the F22 even though the Sec Def (who should know what he is talking about) says “I don’t want the darn plane.” Does a congressman from Alabama know something about our future enemies that the Secretary of Defense doesn’t know? Whats more important, keeping people employed or being able to dogfight when no other airforce in the world would even dream of trying?
Juxtapose that in to this discussion. Is this reform effort really about helping the little guy? I just find that so hard to believe coming from a bunch of narcicists. There are certainly some honest, earnest politicians but I am just not sure their motives are altruistic. Since no one person can make anything happen, its about trading a vote today for a vote tomorrow. Since they don’t have a profit motive like a regular business, discerning what exactly their motivation is on any particular issue is often tricky. A vote for something today might take 3 years to be returned in kind on a pet legislative initiative.
Ask yourself this, why go after insurance companies? Theoretically anything done here impacts their profitability. Who benefits from reform? How does that drive the economy in a positive direction? Blogs are so one way, aren’t they? Open to your opinion, what do you think this is really all about?

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 7:21 pm 7:21 pm

Not that I am the judger of quality or anything but I do want to say thanks to everyone for the solid number of non-vitrolic comments. I’ve stayed of boards of this nature for a long time simply because I felt like so many of the comments were meant to incite. Much thanks for the healthy discussion, its been fun.

Posted by: Juice 17 | July 30, 2009, 7:34 pm 7:34 pm

You’d better believe the public is listening to President Obama. We’re talking, too. If the Republicans don’t start listening to us, we are going to end up with a different party filling their place in our predominately 2-party system.

Posted by: Annabelle Bower | July 31, 2009, 5:23 pm 5:23 pm

I’m a little concerned about the image Obama is sending to our youth. I thought we wanted to prevent our youth from drinking, but after seeing the president and what he did… It seems as though he is telling our youth to go out and drink… And why did he get involved in such a petty thing. Doesn’t he have more important things to deal with!!!!

Posted by: Concerned | July 31, 2009, 6:55 pm 6:55 pm

Juice 17 | Jul 30, 2009 7:21:48 PM
Juice 17, A follow-up. “Open to your opinion, what do you think this is really all about?”
___________
Isn’t that Lockeed Martin plant in Duncanville? I’m in Prestonwood. What do I think the healthcare bill is all about? Take the time to thoroughly & effectively Follow The Money!!! It will ALWAYS lead you back to the benefactor. (opensecrets.org will provide you this data.) Since the yr. 2000 (2 yr. intervals) the Insurance industry contributed $198.3MM, Republican Party: $126.1MM / 63.6% and Democratic Party: $72.2MM / 36.4%. Thought this would save you some time.

Posted by: bobj72 | July 31, 2009, 10:22 pm 10:22 pm

We need to fix what’s wrong with Medicare. I went to a new dr. about three months a go (told he was great) I saw him about 6 min. (suspicious spots) he said he wasn’t sure and sent me to another dr (first he charged me 255.00 (also for a mickey mouse heart exam even though I told him I had had one about a year ago) The next dr. probably spent all of 3 min – first he looked at the spots and said, hummm…I don’t think they are anything just watch them. I told him about my swollen ankle and he said, make a new appt. He wouldn’t even discuss it. His charges $175.00 – now don’t tell me these aren’t bottom feeders. We need to give medicare (drs and pharmacies) a face lift – forget this healthcare. Fix what’s wrong with medicare.

Posted by: artinthewild | August 1, 2009, 9:22 am 9:22 am

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