Who Really Wears the Pants in Russia?

Fascinating. It was such a perfect response, it was almost like it was pre-scripted rhetoric.
BTW, is that a teleprompter in front of his face?

” How could President Barack Obama possibly support a power-seizing constitution-violating President?”
The OAS is unanimous against the coup.
The UN is unanimous against the coup
Hmmm the only ones supporting the military coup are right wing nutjobs here in the United States.

“How could President Barack Obama possibly support a power-seizing constitution-violating President?”
Every major country in the world has supported Zelaya against the coup.
However, I’m sure its the right wing cult in the United States who has it right. They just seem to KNOW!

ryan c says: “The OAS is unanimous against the coup.
The UN is unanimous against the coup.”
That should say a lot about where the US position should be in regards to this “coup” as you call it. The plain, simple truth is that Zelaya wanted to be president for more than one term, and the Honduran constitution limits presidents to one term only. The only process for amending the constitution is for the Honduran congress to initiate the process. The president is not allowed to initiate a constitutional referendum. He broke the law and the military detained him at the order of the Honduran Supreme Court and then they deported him as he was not going to go to trial peacefully. I don’t understand how the US can support a lawbreaking president who wants to bypass the constitution and is supported by the likes of Chavez, Noriega, and Castro. Obama has shown some very dangerous foreign policy positions in supporting the dictator in Iran who is killing those who are demonstrating for democracy, supporting Zelaya, appeasing the Chinese and Russians, and not enforcing strict sanctions against North Korea. This is what happened in the 90′s under Clinton and led to the terrorist attacks in the 90′s and on 9/11.

“No one else in the government was removed.”
Quite a few of Zelaya’s allies have been arrested.
“The government continues to function normally.”
Except for
“The new Honduran government clamped down on street protests and news organizations Wednesday as lawmakers passed an emergency decree that limits public gatherings following the military-led coup that removed President Manuel Zelaya from office. The decree also allows for suspects to be detained for 24 hours and continues a nighttime curfew. Media outlets complained that the government was ordering them not to report any news or opinion that could “incite” the public. ”
Not sure if martial law is functioning normally.
But maybe it is to right wingers.

“A military coup? Hardly sounds like it comes even close to meeting the definition of the words.”
Kind of like torturing Iraiqs at Abu Ghraib was just fraternity hazing.

“…supporting the dictator in Iran who is killing those who are demonstrating for democracy…”
Right, and before the elections Obama’s speech to the Iranian people was called ‘befriending our enemies’. How many different ways do you guys think you can have it?

“Insisting upon calling the events in Honduras a “military coup” is disingenuous at best”
Secret hearings followed by military arrest and exile is a military coup.
Right wingers are trying to put the best face on it because that is what they want to happen in America.

The military executed the orders issued by the Supreme Court, but did not initiate it, that’s why it isn’t a military coup. Removal of a president is the last thing I would ever want to see happen in this country. But there are three branches of government in the US to maintain a system of checks and balances.

“When Obama tries to become Emperor of the United States…”
I’ll bet you ten bucks it never happens.

Every major country in the world has supported President Zelaya against the coup.
EVERY major country. Strange how the right wingers seem to think they have some special insight – they do, it’s called garbage.

skip says: “Right, and before the elections Obama’s speech to the Iranian people was called ‘befriending our enemies’.”
Conservatives criticized Obama’s address to the Iranian leadership. In the past US presidents directed their new years message to the people of Iran and specifically did not recognize the mullah’s or the illegitimate president of Iran. Obama made a point of recognizing the government of Iran and greeting the Supreme Leader. The problem we have with Obama’s interactions with Iran and Honduras, among others, is his desire to engage with the leadership, no matter how badly they are abusing the human rights of their people. Why are you defending this policy when in the past you would have justifiably criticized a regime that kills or imprisons it’s people for the “crime” of speaking against the government?

danita says: “Strange how the right wingers seem to think they have some special insight – they do, it’s called garbage.”
danita, I think it is strange how you and ryan continue to insist on bringing left wing and right wing into this argument. I thought all Americans were against government tyranny and were for freedom and democracy. Are you trying to say that there is freedom and democracy in Iran? Are you trying to say that Zelaya’s desire to serve beyond his constitutionally limited one term is ok in a free democracy? Strange indeed.

“Are you trying to say that there is freedom and democracy in Iran?”
Posted by: Jason | Jul 6, 2009 6:38:31 PM
Where the hell did you get this? Think it up yourself? Trying to put words in my mouth? I said nothing about Iran having freedom or democracy.
What I said was “Every major country in the world has supported President Zelaya against the coup.”
And “Strange how the right wingers seem to think they have some special insight”
And then I called that special insight garbage.

“You can bet your butt that BHO will backpedal like a clown on a unicycle if Zelaya’s close ties to Chavez begin to cost him political capital at home.”
ROFLMAO!
Right wingers are still terrified of the Red Menace.
Thankfully most of the country has given up that paranoia.

“The problem we have with Obama’s interactions with Iran and Honduras, among others, is his desire to engage with the leadership”
In the case of Iran which wants an atomic weapon the other choices of either a]continuing to just ignore them, or b]attacking them, where not deemed acceptable to most Americans last election.

“… the rule of the rich.” Don’t you ever tire of class warfare? That sort of anger can keep you from getting ahead in the world.

Ok lets get some things clear. I do not accuse ryan, skip, danita, or anyone else of being a “left winger” for all I know you could be a libertarian or a confused “right winger.” Labels like those are just used in an effort to portray someone’s argument as being unoriginal and therefore not valid. I do not appreciate and I am sure you don’t appreciate when someone else throws a label at you and dismisses you without attempting to learn something and maybe be flexible in acknowledging and accepting other points of view, even if they would tend to go against what Bush or Obama policies may be. I readily acknowledge that Republican lawmakers and presidents have been unprincipled and worked with unsavory types for political gain, or in a one track approach at achieving a policy that they have invested much time into. I have nothing but disgust for a politician who goes against their principles for political gain, be they Republican or Democrat. I am disgusted by Obama’s desire to throw away American ideals of freedom, human rights, and democracy all for the purpose of continuing with his policy of engagement. What in your world view justifies acknowledging and working with men who oppress and kill their own people? I am trying to understand.

Every major country in the world has supported President Zelaya over the people who staged the coup.
You may condemn all of those countries universally . .. I do not.
I have a feeling there is much more here than meets the uninformed eye.

danita, you keep repeating your mantra that all the other major countries in the world support Zelaya and calling anyone who disagrees with you “uninformed.” Have you considered that a lot of politicians, no matter what they say in regards to reform, etc… desire to keep the status quo if they are in the top spot? A lot of those who side with Zelaya do so only because the military was involved and that immediately causes them to shut down any desire to see whether or not the military actually has a horse in the game or if they were just following the orders from the Supreme Court. By all accounts the only reason that martial law was imposed was to avoid rioting and intimidation from Zelaya’s supporters. The police and the interim government have not been making people disappear like Iran has been doing, yet Obama decides to come down harshly on Honduras, and try to appease the dictator in Iran. This is wrong headed and immoral.

Danita, please enlighten me and list each of the :every major country” that has said they support zelaya. You’ve repeated that many times, so which are they?

“list each of the :every major country” that has said they support zelaya”
Posted by: And Atlas Shrugs Yet Again | Jul 6, 2009 11:29:54 PM
I’m surprised you’re so interested in this topic and haven’t done the research already.
Have you really not done it?
Are you incapable of doing the research yourself?

I don’t know what technical problem the site was having, but for awhile there wasn’t any way to get back to earlier comments…
Anyhow, Ryan C said:
Quite a few of Zelaya’s allies have been arrested.
Please provide a reference for this.
you also said: “Not sure if martial law is functioning normally. But maybe it is to right wingers.”
I agree, martial law isn’t normal functioning within a country – but it may be quite reasonable for a very short time frame under the circumstances, and serve to protect the citizens rather than oppress them. Time will tell.
As to the “right winger” base ad hominem attack – that’s the sort of name calling that people who aren’t willing to reasonably debate an issue drop down to. How about discussing the issue and leaving the name calling to the children?

Ryan C said: “Because Americans prefer a peaceful transition of government even in crisis and abhor military coups?
Right wingers like the whole military takeover thing provided its a right wing government that ultimately takes shape. ”
————-
First, you don’t speak for Americans. Second, when a president repeatedly violates the law and constitution, and refuses to step down from office when both the country’s Supreme Court and its Congress unanimously order him to, then its pretty impossible to have a peaceful transition. It’d certainly be preferable to be peaceful, darned shame that sometimes real life doesn’t allow for what’s desired in that regard.
Of course, the Honduran Supreme Court and Congress could have broken their own laws and kept things peaceful by allowing a president who violates their law and constitution to do whatever he wanted. Are you saying Americans and Obama prefer peaceful regardless of cost to enforcing the constitution and rule of law in a country?

“list each of the :every major country” that has said they support zelaya”
Posted by: And Atlas Shrugs Yet Again | Jul 6, 2009 11:29:54 PM
I’m surprised you’re so interested in this topic and haven’t done the research already.
Have you really not done it?
Are you incapable of doing the research yourself?
————————–
Its YOUR claim, not mine. Support it, provide the basis behind your claims. Are you unable to back up your own words?

“No nation has declared support for the Honduran military’s actions or for the new acting President Roberto Micheletti”
Can you name any?

Danita wrote: “”No nation has declared support for the Honduran military’s actions or for the new acting President Roberto Micheletti”
Can you name any?”
————–
So you are unable to list the “every major country supports zelaya” claim that you’ve made so many times. All you can do is try to deflect it onto others.

Let’s start with something simple for you.
Can you name any nations that have declared support for the Honduran military’s actions or the new acting President Roberto Micheletti?
———————-
Answer my question first – provide support for your claim. Changing the question to something no one here has said isn’t any sort of an answer.

Danita wrote: “There are many, many countries who have come out in support of Zelaya and against the coup. If you knew how to read a newspaper or use the internet you would know this.”
——————
Oh GOOD Danita! Since its so simple, YOU list the countries YOU claimed. As I said before, put up, or shut up. You’ve said how simple it is, and I’m sure you can use internet and read the paper, so LIST THEM.

Ought to be a snap for you — you’ve claimed EVERY MAJOR NATION HAS COME OUT IN SUPPORT OF ZELAYA.
I won’t even insist you list ‘em all, lets say, may just ten.

I have a list as long as my arm Atlas, and so does every other informed person on here.
Simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ from you to begin with.

Atlas . . .
That is not at all the case.
Of course I have a list here and it’s ready to post . . .. even though I know its incomplete.
But I’m not posting it until you answer one simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question. You don’t have to research, it’s about your knowledge.
Do you know of any countries that have declared their support for the Honduran military’s actions or the new acting President Roberto Micheletti?
If you can’t answer that question, and . . .. guess what . . . provide the names of those countries – you can do your own research. You’re not informed enough to be discussing the issue.
I’ll bet you haven’t been able to come up with very many.

Concerned in OH
p.s. – research all you want and when you come up with the names of countries who have declared support for the actions of the military and the new acting President Roberto Micheletti – you let me know right away.
Okay?
I’m all ears ready and waiting to hear.

Concerned in OH . . .
I am not a constitutional expert of any kind, nor am I skilled in Spanish nor the subtleties of Spanish. Nor am I going to sit and read the entire constitution so that I see what else is allowed or not allowed in it, and what kind of document it is. So you might understand if I don’t make a snap judgement on that.
However, it doesn’t take any expertise for you to tell me if you know of any countries who have declared support for the actions of the military and the new acting President Roberto Micheletti?
It’s a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ . . .
Do you know of any countries who have declared their support for the actions of the Honduran military and the new actin President Roberto Micheletti?