Obama Addresses ‘Outlandish’ and ‘Misleading’ Claims About Health Reform

Obama & the rest of the Dem leadership just don’t get it.
It’s not about rationing or keeping your Dr.
America does not want the federal government involved in health care — period.
It doesn’t matter what the bill says or doesn’t say.
The fact is people know from past experience that when the government gets involved things go from bad to worse.
We are trillions in debt and this will only add more. Look at the historical costs of Medicare vs what the projected cost was supposed to be.
And to top it all off, the Treasury is asking to increase the debit limit because $12.1 trillion just isn’t enough.
When will the jerks in Washington stop and remember that they work for us, and if we say No, we mean No!

“Under the reforms we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”
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Why does he blatantly keep lying about this? It’s simply not true. Just read pages 16-18 of the bill and you will quickly see that you will lose the insurance you like and be FORCED into the public option if: you change jobs, or your insurance company raises your premium $0.01! Oh, and there’s that little part about how insurance companies can write exactly ZERO new plans after this bill becomes law! Again, I ask, why is the President lying about this? Has he read the bill???

The people that want to kill health care reform are the same vociferous bunch that think George W Bush was a good president. Loud, stupid and wrong. Fortunately, they’re in the minority.

Medicare is going broke … Social Security is running out of money … and the president wants to add a new $1.5 trillion entitlement the nation can ill afford. Let’s address the entitlements we have now before taking on a new fiscal burden. Plus, we should all be concerned about government taking responsibility for 1/6 of our economy which makes up the health care industry.

Bull!

Obama has shown that he is not to be trusted. He was very clear that he believes that seniors would be better off taking painpillers that receiving expnsive pacemakers.

Patrick said it so well i’m going to repeat it here, “Medicare is going broke … Social Security is running out of money … and the president wants to add a new $1.5 trillion entitlement the nation can ill afford. Let’s address the entitlements we have now before taking on a new fiscal burden. Plus, we should all be concerned about government taking responsibility for 1/6 of our economy which makes up the health care industry.”
Also, this guy deserves a second read, “”Under the reforms we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”
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Why does he blatantly keep lying about this? It’s simply not true. Just read pages 16-18 of the bill and you will quickly see that you will lose the insurance you like and be FORCED into the public option if: you change jobs, or your insurance company raises your premium $0.01! Oh, and there’s that little part about how insurance companies can write exactly ZERO new plans after this bill becomes law! Again, I ask, why is the President lying about this? Has he read the bill???”

Hopefully the Obamaessiah will do a better job correcting the “outlandish and misleading” claims about the health reform plan than he has about the recent “drop in unemployment” !!! Which, by the way, is not due to less people being unemployed—- The Washington Post—-”The July decline in the jobless rate came about not because more people had jobs, but because 422,000 people removed themselves from the labor force, essentially giving up the search for work. The number of long-term unemployed people — those who have been out of a job but looking for more than 26 weeks — rose by another 584,000.” —– This sorry excuse for a president couldn’t tell the honest truth if his life depended on it !!!! If the health reform plan is so wonderful—why is so difficult to sell it ???? Everyone knows what we have now sucks !!!

Perhaps he should address his own outlandish and misleading claims…it’s kind of hard to overlook something if it came out of his mouth. We have video of the big O talking about the elderly going home and taking a pill, we have video of him talking of wanting single payer, we have video of him saying it is going to take time to do away with private insurers…so what exactly is it we are misunderstanding?!

Obama’s proposal is inadequate to the need and expensive due to kowtowing to the pharmacy industry.
What should have been done was to create single payer, tell people with insurance that it would not cost them more than their insurance premiums cost them, negotiate for cheaper drugs, and adopt medicare’s rules and guidelines for treatment.

Obama didn’t address the fact that illegal aliens will be covered. I really think he’s lying through his teeth and will say later it was worse that we thought so we had to change it.

Does the below look like you can keep your current health plan?
The first quote is from the current health bill, which prohibits buying a private plan once the new government health plan is in place. Obama is a liar.
“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.”
So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won’t be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.
From the beginning, opponents of the public option plan have warned that if the government gets into the business of offering subsidized health insurance coverage, the private insurance market will wither. Drawn by a public option that will be 30% to 40% cheaper than their current premiums because taxpayers will be funding it, employers will gladly scrap their private plans and go with Washington’s coverage.
The nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated in April that 120 million or more Americans could lose their group coverage at work and end up in such a program. That would leave private carriers with 50 million or fewer customers. This could cause the market to, as Lewin Vice President John Sheils put it, “fizzle out altogether.”
What wasn’t known until now is that the bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not letting any new policies be written after the public option becomes law.
The legislation is also likely to finish off health savings accounts, a goal that Democrats have had for years. They want to crush that alternative because nothing gives individuals more control over their medical care, and the government less, than HSAs.

Mr.President, outlandish rumors just doesn’t cut it. Stop being nice and say it like it is. These people are LYING. Palin lies, Bachmann lies, Boenner lies, ALL OF THE REPUBLICANS are lying about health care. They are LIARS AND FRAUDS, spewing selfish hate, and they are attempting to swindle the American people of what they need, REAL heathcare reform. They want to STEAL this opportunity from us by manipulating their followers of puppets that say and believe what their told to say and believe.
LIARS AND FRAUDS! WAKE UP PEOPLE! The Republicans are LYING TO YOU!!! 22,000 PEOPLE DIE EVERY YEAR FROM LACK OF HEALTH CARE! That is BLOOD on Republican hands! They are Murderers! And they want to keep murdering to fill their pockets and the pockets of insurance companies making BILLIONS of dollars off your suffering. WAKE UP!!

You people defending Obama are so naive. Do you honestly beleive what ANY politician says? Not just Obama, but anyone? He is telling his version of the truth. You criticize the right for “folding to the insurance companies” just as the left is about to take over 150 million from drug companies to push their plan. Both sides have sold out. Obama says you can keep your own plan/doctor. Sure you can….for a year or so b/c no private company will be able to surive too long when competing against the Federal Government. Democrats apparently didn’t learn their lesson in 1993-1994 of what happens to them when they support this socialist crap that most Americans don’t want.

When the congress is forced to use the same health care system that is forced on citizens, then and only then will I support government health care reform. Don’t be stupid all your life. Why in the world do you think congress will have a different set of rules??????

Americans are catching on; Obama’s goal of a socialist government is NOT in the best interest of its citizens.

When the president of America is trying to put the people in charge of their health care, I do not know why some republicans’ are against that. Why they are barking? Unfortunately the good news’s are bad for the GOP’s. They do not care about the future generation. The ultimate goal for them is; Obama to fail, the country’s prosperity is not important for them. I do not see any intelligent people in the Republican Party.

The ABC Obama townhall offered a few glimpses of what will change. After a woman discussed her mother’s pacemaker surgery at 95 (the woman is still alive and well at 100 today!) Obama went on to say that maybe the elderly, instead of having surgery could just take another pain pill.
During another townhall a man referenced the provision that if you lost the insurance you had at the time the bill became law, that you would be forced into the public option and could not buy another private insurance. Obama was unaware of this provision.
Nobody in the Obama administration, nobody in Congress or the Senate has stepped forward to say they would choose this very same insurance they’re trying to force upon us.
As long as Obama and his minions in congress keep demeaning concerned citizens by calling them “astro turf” there is going to be hostility and anger at these townhall meetings. People need the facts, not glorified promises.

another plan on top of another plan that’s going to be paid for by hard-working Americans…again. This health care plan is just another good-will gesture like Medicaid was and now we know that Medicaid is a mess and out of control. Medicaid needs to be cleaned up and cleaned out…it’s a very corrupt program / organization spearheaded by the government. Only took Obama less than 100 days to start spouting useless rhetoric – no substance, no plan, no schedule, no nothing.

I think that those yelling the loudest are the most insecure and pathetic! Just what are they afraid of: actually being able to go to a doctor when sick or injured, not being denied treatment because of inability to pay, being denied coverage because of abstract “pre-existing conditions”? If the answer is “socialism” than I give up… That’s just a smoke screen like the idiots dressing up in colonial costumes to protest government spending. Those same people were very silent when Bush took the previous administration’s budget SURPLUS and created the largest deficit this country has ever known, creating this bleedn problem in the first place!
If you don’t have an intelligent argument in this “debate” you don’t belong in it. Go home an drink your beer with Joe the plumber and let the rest of us do the real work of actually thinking!!!!

As the late Don Meridith used to say on Monday Night Football, at the time in the game when the end was apparently decided… “Turn out the lights, the party’s over…”
This Administration went “all in” on this abomination of a health care program, and they LOST!!!
Can you Dems all repeat after me… OBAMA’s A LAME DUCK!!!!
One term, and his party’s over… and I’m referring to the Democrats. Now, if we can just keep the GOP out of the vacuum the Dems’ exit will create, we just MIGHT be able to have a representative Government once again.

How would he know? He most likely never read the legislation; along with his political minions. I am so Obama’ed out.

Many people are taking things out of context and not looking at the whole picture about healthcare reform and just to let you know I did not vote for the President. Insurance companies have denied policies and coverage and dictated what kind of care a person gets for years and done it legally. If you have not experienced a denial from these companies for a critcal care issue, you are naive about the insurance gods already working out there. If something is not done many people who need care will continue to not get it and will never get it. People like me who have had the experience of no insurance for years. You decide then whether you get treatment or not at your expense and face the possiblity of filing bankruptcy when the hospitals and doctors come after you. Try making that decision when you are sick then tell me you believe the outlandish rumors out there about reform and try to track them back to the wealthy insurance companies who are fighting it tooth and nail. I am not that naive.

To some of the individuals here who crow about their alleged intelligence and complain about this political party or that political party, read the Banker’s Manifesto of 1893 and then wonder if you’re actually so intelligent or if you are a mere pawn. Wake up sleeping Americans! It doesn’t matter whether it’s the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. They are both the Party Of Money and are leading you down the path of ruin! You’re playing right into their hands.
“BANKERS MANIFESTO
We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance.
Organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha convention to be held July 4, 1892, our men must attend and direct its movement or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome.
This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination (conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through the process of law, the common people have lost their homes,
they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm
of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers.
People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete actions, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished.”

Seriously, can’t Republicans who oppose something do so by debating the merits? Why does it always come down to lies and fear. The town hall meetings were supposed to a place people could ask the hard questions, but the vitriol coming from the Right makes it impossible for others to get information. Let people make up their own minds after hearing the facts, or does the right now believe in communism, only one message can be heard, theirs!

I will manage my own health care. I do not want the government to do that for me. Congress needs to lead by example. They should adopt this health care plan for themselves instead of the plan they have now. After about five years if it has worked for them the rest of us will sign on.

Why won’t Political Punch fact check Obama? They take everything he says as gospel. They need to do thier jobs and be critical of Obama for once.

The Republicans want Healthcare reform to Fail, why? Well for one thing they are in bed with the Insurance Company,They have even admitted if Healthcare Fails that will be Obamas Waterloo they do not Care if People have Insurance, They do not care if your going bankrupt because of medical bills. They care how much money the Insurance Lobbsit will give them, And if they can Destroy President Obama and the Democrats to hell with the rest of you AND THAT IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“I will manage my own health care. I do not want the government to do that for me.” – Phyllis
Then you will be pleased to hear that under the current bill, any existing plans will be grandfathered in. So you don’t have to change.
Now, aren’t you happy? See how easy that was?

Honesty is always the best policy and leaders need to be honest when they state how many are uninsured, how many are illegal and how many could afford it but do not. I doubt though that our President knows exactly whats in the bill. What makes no sense to me is the continued bashing of Insurance companies. Insurance is highly regulated at the state levels and that it is expensive is partially because of politicians dicking with stuff they know nothing about. And while insurance is expensive for us isn’t quality of life important no matter your age or circumstances?
Social security, medicare are already trillions of dollars behind in unfunded mandates. Thats trillions with a T.Government already runs medicare/medicaid and if they want to control something let them get that mess in order before they take on more.
By the way, execs riding around on planes seem to bother some proponents of health care yet our congress just spent millions for G5 aircraft themselves. So I conclude that the larger the Government becomes the more irresponsible they are and bloating the federal government with a takeover of healthcare makes no sense.

“I have read HR3200 completely. IMHO is is the biggest CROCK since HR1.” – No Common Sense in DC
How so? Be specific.

The fact that keeps getting ommitted is that an OVERRWHELMING majority of American taxpayers simply do NOT want this plan. The fact that our elected officials are trying to force it on us makes the matter worse.
Heath care is broken. But this cure is worse than the disease. We need bipartisan agreement on a solution that works and is affordable. HR3200 AIN’T IT! Just start over, Dude!

The Justice Department refuses to prosecute actual voter intimidation by member of the Black Panther party. The White House wants to shut down public discourse with anyone who disagrees or questions the President or democrats in Congress. However, the President wants to listen to Iran and North Korea. It is scary and makes me wonder how long our nation will remain free.

In all of this “who is interfering with whose “public” forum on healthcare,” I think there is a bigger point…and hardly addressed at all by the so-called “mainstream?” media….and that is the growing dissatisfaction “mainstream Americans” have with the growing inability of our government to govern……the Obama teleprompter is getting a washed out look, Congress…like lost chickens looking for their coop goes on and on with much ado about nothing unless it benefits them personally…and now we have 40+ czars on the loose in the west wing….all of whom probably are enjoying their “special” Health Insurance as well as their sabbaticals from the University of Chicago. ( Remember when one could rattle off the names of the Secretaries of this and that in an administration?…..they used to be responsible for their respective areas of expertise…for the most part we now have them competing with czars (..and isn’t the word itself saying a great deal about the flavor or our current executive branch?). You just can’t have a good…let alone a great Administration if an increasing mass of voters are wondering what you are up to next…….the times they are discomforting, aren’t they?

Angie in PA – Somebody, somewhere, will go after a group of “evil liberals.” I’m not sure it won’t be soon. The volume is up. I think it’s gone entirely too far. Just when I think it can’t get any worse they pull another trick out of the bag.

People are upset because they know the government cannot be trusted to effectively and efficiently run ANY program. Regardless of what Obama says, this bill will grow out of control like every other entitlement program and bankrupt the country. Stop villifying citizens with legitimate concerns!

If “socialized” government sponsored healthcare is so bad, why don’t GOP leaders drop their “government sponsored healthcare plan” and go out and try and buy healthcare for their families?

The overwhelming majority of Americans don’t even know what the plan includes.

. Regardless of what Obama says, this bill will grow out of control like every other entitlement program and bankrupt the country. Stop villifying citizens with legitimate concerns!
Posted by: KCNelson | Aug 8, 2009 9:59:17 AM
Very will said!

After quoting the president “…
the president said it is important that Americans have the facts,” you quote this:
“So let me start by dispelling the outlandish rumors that reform will promote euthanasia, cut Medicaid or bring about a government takeover of health care,” he said. “That’s simply not true. This isn’t about putting government in charge of your health insurance; it’s about putting you in charge of your health insurance. Under the reforms we seek, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan.”
Where is the counter claim that is made by reputable people that his assertions are just not true? Could you not get any good quotes from someone who asserts that down the road you CANNOT keep your doctor, or your health care plan? that it WILL promote euthanasia? If I remember my recent history, quoting Bush claims was always accompanied by citing a Democrat spokesman saying “balderdash.”

SOMEBODY MUST PREVENT THESE AMERICAN VOTERS FROM ACTUALLY READING THIS BILL! Their ability to read and understand what obama has planned for them in the new socialist agenda is the real problem!

And, ObWann, I think that most of us that oppose this bill do NOT oppose health care reform. What we DO oppose is having such a bill be passed by congress that is voting strictly for the purpose of passing something. When even the sponsor of the HR admits that his reading of the bill would be ridiculous since it would take a “room full of lawyers” to explain it to him, then I would say that is a serious problem. I can’t speak for everyone in here, but I can speak for myself. And all I’m saying is let the light of day shine on this bill BEFORE signing it. It may be perfect. If so, great. Let’s pass it. But it just might have some pretty bad stuff in it, put there by some dishonest politician for his own personal or political gain. If so, let’s ferret that out and get rid of it. But don’t sell the American Citizens a pin in a poke. As Judge Judy Sheindlen says in her book, “Don’t pee down my leg and try to tell me it’s raining”

“czars (..and isn’t the word itself saying a great deal about the flavor or our current executive branch?) – justj joey
Well, now you’re showing you ignorance. Ever heard of a Drug Czar? Is that an invention of the current Admin.?
In fact, Richard Nixon (a conservative Republican) named the first U.S. government czar in 1973: energy czar William Simon, who officially headed the Federal Energy Office, which later became the Energy Department.

AS I READ ALL THE COMMENTS SUBMITTED BY THE “LEFT’, IT IS AS PLAIN AS DAY THAT NOT ONE OF THEM HAS READ THE HEALTH BILL. THEY JUST REPEAT WHAT HEAR FROM THE SOCIALIST.I AM IN A BUSINESS WHERE I TALK TO SEVERAL HUNDRED PEOPLE EACK WEEK AND 90% ARE AGAINST THIS BILL AS WELL AS “CAP & TRADE” AND BIG GOVERNMENT.

LOL, the bill will not be passed in its pure form, the dems and repubs have their pockets greased by the insurance companies…and where do you folks get euthanasia from? Gee, have you seen how the elderly pass away on a daily basis in hospice setting…how they wish to pass away as stated within their living wills is up to them…some do not wish for CPR and others do…Although the president has made mention that we will be able to maintain our current insurance plans, I doubt the companies will allow us to do so because the government plan is much cheaper for employers and I believe there is where the right wingers believe it is actually a nationalized health insurance…also, this question has never ever been addressed, how will the costs of the public plan be affected by undocumented residents of the U.S.?

Phallon absolutely right, I’m a Social Worker in a nursing home and the state requires us to have advanced directives (the form you refer to) on file which we do at admissions. Euthanasia is not where we are going, if anything we need a MUCH better plan on how to cover the aging baby boomers in 15 years or so, we are so not prepared to take care of this influx of older adults and we are going to see big problems.

Debbie, and all…if there is so much “false information and fear mongering” being spread, how about agreeing to this. Let the bill be put out in open in it’s final proposal. Let those in the public who are interested review it. This is a pretty serious bill, with the potential of a huge impact to our country. Let us see the bill. That’s all. And don’t say it’s out there. There are several provisions of the bill…several proposals. Put out a final proposal, and if approved, the pass it WITHOUT adding to it (like they did on the last hour for the Cap and Trade Bill). How about some open and honest government. How about they don’t pass such a huge bill from behind closed doors? If the bill is good, should it not stand on its own merit??

the problem here is the goverment gets upset when the citizens want to express them selves,PEACEFULLY using first amendment rights. it was the right of the people to protest wars and conservative causes. secondly the concerns are that this bill will limit care and the cost will grow out of control.this is a realistic possibility. the job of government seems nowadays not to serve the people but to get bigger.

ncpilot0.
Thank you for the repremand. I deserve it and I do apologize. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I am an American, “just a little right of center” Unfortunately, I have no representation in D.C. which frustrates me. I do apologize for the rude comment.

I should not have to be afraid of going to a town hall meeting and I should be permitted to ask questions, NOT be screamed at. What barbarians. Thanks Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Beck. You are creating your own monsters for profit.

Winton, Obama has admitted that he has not read the bill. He was taken by surprise when asked about not being able to have private insurance after you move from one job to another. Once you do that…..you MUST sign up for the gov’t plan. His reply was, “i did not know that that was in the bill. IF it is, then i will not sign it.” THAT is an example of why I personally want to stall the passing of this bill until it can be seen by the public

granny, I watched the video. Which cuts off right there to make sure everybody comes to that conclusion. It’s obvious the man is referring to waste. Not in respect to this woman necessairly. Try logging onto the Dept. of Health and Human Services and you’ll see reports on waste and other issues. They do believe there is waste in too much testing, biopsies, operations, etc. Some of which is promoted by fear of a lawsuit. I can attest to this as I was put thru an painful one a while ago, and I have since come to the conclusion it was just bunk. The money they spent on me could be better used towards somebody else.

Bo does do a good job reading his propaganda of his teleprompter

Sorry, Mr. President, this time, your rhetoric, is seen for what it is……misleading lies, seeking to lead the citizens down the primrose path, to disaster.

Time for Obama’s Chicago/Daley style political machine to send out the hired ACORN, SEIU, AFL-CIO, MoveOn thugs to apply their “persuasion of power” and “argue and get in their faces” and physically assault citizens asking tough questions about ObamaCare.
Best quote from MoveOn: “We’ve hired skilled grassroots organizers.”
Hired + grassroots = definition of astroturfing
Obama said he doesn’t want certain people doing a lot of talking. He just wants them to get out of the way.

The right wing will stop at nothing to SC@RE people. They’ve been a political Cloverfield monster, st@lking the world with their BS ever since the W/T/C att@ck

no common sense…no problem. I’m proud to be a Republican, and so i’ll state it. Comments in here make me even prouder because it proves time and time again that the Republicans are held to a much higher standard even by the Democrats themselves. Think about it: Obama screws up, excuses are made. Bush bashing begins. (Bush is held to a higher standard). Bill Clinton has an affair, even the Nat’l Org of Women come to his defense (“Boys will be boys”). Governor of SC has an affair? The dems have a field day and the Republicans censure him. It goes on and on, and ironically proves that even the libs hold the conservatives to a higher standard. I think it’s great

Try the Truth, that is exactly my point. There IS no final bill. And that’s why I believe it is so important to delay any voting on it until there IS a final bill. For crying out loud, would you buy a new car before it’s even off the drawing boards???

Love to read and laugh at this idiot,can not beleive a dam thing that comes out of his lying mouth.

President Obama has to understand that more and more American people do not feel that he is credible. The same smooth talking he did during the campaign is doing him in now. As he said in Northen Virginia on August 7, he really doesn’t want to hear from the opposition!! (A REAL BELIEVER IN THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH).
ObamaCare does one major thing: turns individual health care over to the government!! BAD NEWS!

The only difference between the Radical terrorists in other countries and those disrupting healthcare reforms and other issues that require an open mind in the US is our law enforcement is better in many but not all situations…save this we would be involved in some very violent and dangerous activity…
Glenn Beck et al…are the “Supreme Leader’s” of these ignorant cannon fodder/puppet’s!

Trouble IS, most of the “outlandish” and “misleading” claims about insurance reform, or whatever they’re calling it today, comes from the White House and the Congress.
Search for “Top Ten Ways To Tell Your President & His Party Aren’t Fighting For Health Care For Everybody”, by Bruce Dixon.
Possibly the WORST baloney is the former Democrats’ flim-flam on the “public option”:
“In their haste not to bite the hands that feed them millions in campaign contributions each hear, the president and his party have scaled the public option back from a Medicare-sized 130 million to a maximum of 10 million, too small to put cost pressure in private insurers. Worse still, the president and his party are playing bait-and-witch, not telling the public they have reduced the public option, to nearly nothing.”

This is FrankenCare. Once the Democrat controlled gov. jolts their FrankenCare to life there is no turning back. They will say anything to get it passed. Once passed it will change over time until it is resembles the Canadian healthcare system. The liberals in Congress have made no attempt to hide their plans in that regard. Why do you think they like to talk about Cuban healthcare all the time? Do so homework people. Study UK and Canada and you will see that there are 1000′s of people in socialized medicine who are withheld treatment, suffer and die each year. Obama FrankenCare = DMV lines, fewer qualified doctors, huge beauracracy, corruption, rationing, increased lawsuits against doctors to keep Democrat funding trial lawyers rich and happy. That’s why nobody in Congress is reading the bill. It’s meaningless. It’s not what’s in the bill that counts. It’s giving the gov. total control that counts. The bill is merely what will bring FrankenCare to life.

Obama and his Chicago Gang, will have blood on their hands if things go wrong with the union thugs. BAD DECISION TEAM OBAMA!! They sure are showing signs of desperation!!

“If socialized medicine is best … why didn’t Ted Kennedy go to Canada?”
Maybe they should rethink their signs…
He has gov’t health care

Why not demand that they (Congress AND the President) be on the SAME plan they pass for us? As it is, Rep. Waxman says they don’t have to be on it, as they already have a good solid plan for themselves.

Publis, the government does not force people in to their insurance, HMO’s often do not give full coverage to seniors depending on what their needs are. If a senior comes into my nursing home with say…Keystone for rehab, they are not really able to receive more that say 2 weeks a rehab because they are under such strict guidelines by that managed care…sure they tell their consumers they have the same 100 days as medicare consumers but here’s the difference. Managed care reviews those on their case loads, and we at the nursing home review those on straight medicare. Managed care patients I have never EVER seen stay their 100 days because they want them out ASAP. Guess who has the higher success rates? Those we have to rush out the door because MC pulls the plug on their rehab payer source after two weeks of rehab when they have a hip replacement and can barely walk…(but hey they’re walking so get them out), or those who actually get their hundred days because we assess them and make sure they truly are able to do what they need to do to function in the community. Guess who returns after needing another hospitalization and guess who lives longer productive lives in the community. When someone in a cubicle is reading about MY residents and tells us what should be done with consumers and making decisions about what is right for their lives, rather than the therapists and Drs actually working with them I can not accept that. Their job is to make money for that HMO by cutting costs, and ours is to keep them well. We don’t screw medicare, if someone platos or doesn’t need that 100 days, we don’t keep them. we have nothing to gain from screwing the government, we just want to make sure our residents are well before we send them into an environment that would be unsuccessful if they were not prepared. In my experience the government, not the insurance companies have made the smarter choices regarding the safety and health of the patient.

* People who want Congress to take more time debating healthcare–-are the ones shutting down debate.
* Obama says the time for talk on healthcare is over–but his critics are the ones trying to shut down debate.
* Harassing and threatening the families of AIG employees is awesome; razzing Representatives and Senators is totally immoral!
* Asking Representatives and Senators to read bills before voting on them is killing democracy.
* Sen. Specter saying “we have to make judgments very fast” is awesome. Booing him for saying so is shutting off debate.
* Healthcare protesters are thugs shutting off debate; antiwar protesters are “rowdy and spirited.”
And don’t forget the Community-Agitator-in-Chief last year commanding his legions to go forth:
“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to ARGUE WITH THEM AND GET IN THEIR FACE,” Obama said.
Obama said he doesn’t want certain people doing a lot of talking. He just wants them to get out of the way.

ncpilot09 – good post. We have to keep the dialog going and help move all of us to a higher level and keep the truth in front of us all. Thanks! Sorry there are thugs among us.
ncpilot09 “well directed, thank you. The post that was credited to me was done by an imposter. Don’t know how, but i do know why. In case you have not met me in here or read my posts (the real ones), you will find out that I am quite conseservative, very much against the excuse making for obama, and quite right of center”

“As he said in Northen Virginia on August 7, he really doesn’t want to hear from the opposition!!”
He probably isn’t eager to have anyone asking “their” Congresspersons about His intention to cut Medicare and Medicaid by 313 BILLION dollars — or that nothing that winds up IN His flim-flam bill would actually be enforced until AFTER the next presidential election.
Not only does He not want to hear from the opposition, He doesn’t want there to BE opposition.
The misrepresentations from the White House have ALREADY been so extreme that the best thing would be for Him to resign, rather than corrupt the entire media in the struggle to prop Him up.

>
Well, misinformed. It’s not that they can’t ever enroll anyone in private insurance again, it’s that plans that don’t provide minimum coverage can’t enroll new patients INTO THOSE INSUFFICIENT PLANS after that date. The people who already have those plans will be allowed to keep them, but new enrollees must choose insurance that meets the basic requirements. Here’s the part just before the part you quoted, maybe it will shed some light:
“SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:”

joeray: Why was the first face transplant conducted in France?

joeray: Why is Sweden ranked number 1 in medical technology innovation and science?

So when the right-wingnuts can’t win with intelligent debate, they resort to violence.
Bill Maher was right tonight – they are nothing but stupid. I am embarrassed for my country.
Posted by: welldirected | Aug 8, 2009 10:47:37 AM
Things did not get violent until Obama’s paid thugs from SEIU, AFL-CIO, MoveOn, and ACORN (funded by taxpayers!) showed up to muscle concerned citizens out of the town hall meetings.

We are letting these “Brownshirts” get away with this.
Wake up the 375 million dollars the big healthcare industry uses to
inform politicians to leave things just the way it is ,is WORKING.
Our President has backed off and is becoming a WIMP about these
President Obama has got to be strong and not so nice like.
With Palin saying Obama health care plan is gonna kill undesirable patients
we sure need to stop this movement that is rallying our lies.
Are we wimps as well?

The GOP is cornered and rabid. Their spokesman: Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck and O’Reilly are on the last bite. There’s not too many GOPers left. Won’t be long until they’re a history class.

well Publis that’s not forcing you into using it, just to pay for it. I can’t fight you on that. I’m not saying its technically right we have to, but I think you need to have a little empathy. I don’t know you or anything about you, but you have to ask yourself what happens when your 85 and need medical help? Without insurance you can’t afford it, and not many people have guaranteed insurance that follows them after they are no longer employed. What happens to you? I’m am not the one who says it’s your responsibility to pay for it, but what do we do for people who can no longer take care of themselves? The seniors I worked with paid their dues by helping to build this country, how can we turn our backs on us when they need us? It just seems so un-American

Read H.R 3200 and compare it to Obama’s words . . . that’s all you have to do.

“If things change the corporations lose the exploitative health insurance goose that lays the golden eggs.”
Au contraire: “if things change” to mandatory insurance, the health insurance goose, and the golden campaign donation eggs for the politicians, will be fatter than ever.

photo
isn’t it interesting how over the years we consistently hear of violence being threatened and even perpetrated by conservatives against those who disagree with them, but never the other way around.
Anyone else here think that’s interesting?
Very interesting and was so obvious during Bush’s two terms. That’s why no one, who had the smallest inkling of being a liberal, was allowed into any town halls or during his campaign.

Swedish size, society and population make-up is nothing like ours. Get a clue.

Obama, “I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we’ve got to take back the White House, we’ve got to take back the Senate, and we’ve got to take back the House.”
Who’s going to dispute Obama’s own words?

We have to face facts. There is a limited amount of money. It is going to be necessary to make some tough decisions, patriotic decisions. Just as Obama let his own grandmother die without paying for pointless life-prolonging treatment–she was on her way out, why waste the money?–we have to weed out some oldsters who are doing little but sitting around in nursing homes, when we could be getting our inheritances now, instead of them wasting these precious limited resources.

“As he said in Northen Virginia on August 7, he really doesn’t want to hear from the opposition!!”
Gee, did you read that somewhere? Did you attend the speech? Becuase your representation of what happened is contridicted by the AP.
‘Appealing across party lines, Obama told the Democratic audience that leaders must listen to their opponents and disagree with civility…”We want to make sure that we listen to other people’s ideas.”‘
Gee, how do you account for the fact that what you say happened is the exact opposite of what happened? Were you maybe lied to about what happened at the meeting?

Joeray | Aug 8, 2009 10:59:23 AM— And all the while threatening and yelling they call liberals brown shirts! LOL! Instead of debating the merits, they hijack the meetings not allowing questions to be asked or answered then have the nerve to say that anyone who criticizes their tactics or gives it back to them are thugs! Some of them take victimization and hypocrisy to a whole new level

Obama claimed he wanted a single-payer system and it’s on video him saying so. Deal with it Libs! Obama’s just another lying Communist.
Posted by: toby hill | Aug 8, 2009 10:52:42 AM
*************************************
This is where we discuss “desires” vs. “reality.” See, I desire world peace but that will never happen. I desire the GOP to dial it down a dang notch because they are going to get somebody killed. Won’t happen. So, in a nutshell? Obama can “desire” all he wants and that in NO WAY implies it will become a reality because of a little thing called congress and writing legislation. Next we can discuss how the GOP is playing you people.

These fanatics are set ups and nothing but the lunatic fringe of our society. Angry, racist and misinformed.
“Keep the government off our medicare” are common refrains at these ridiculous events. How do you even have a discussion with a person that only wants to be angry and refuse to listen. Maybe someone could tell these fools that medicare is a government program with a 78% satisfaction level.
When did all these nuts want to defend their mediocre health insurance plans that draw a 49% satisfaction level and will hang you out to dry once you have medical bills.
Why defend a broken down health insurance company or the status quo when indeed we are ranked 39th in the world and the most expensive per capita. While France has a health care system that ranks #1 and a 1/3 per capita of ours. Imagine if we had a successful program like that in which medical costs would go from 17% of GDP to less than 10%. We all would be healthier and a lot more money in our pockets.

Do people want the government to have complete access to you bank accounts to take what ever they want? >> Its in the bill.
Do you want the government to have access to your medical records?? Its in the bill.
Do you want an unelected unaccountable committee to decide if you get treatement? Its in the Bill.
There is a LOT more in the bill and OBAMA cant hide from the CBO numbers because they actually read the BILL. HR3200 is garbage!

Republicans have been lieing for so long it has become part of their persona. Lieing must be a pre-requisite for becoming a republican. Case in point: Sarah Palin stating on her blog that Obama’s health care proposal has a “Death Panel” to deny needy people healtcare. LIE, LIE, LIE. Republicans have zero morals.

Does anyone thing they can make a complex system form scratch without making a mess? These guys could not even get Cash for Clunkers right. Read the BILL !

ChicagoBob | Aug 8, 2009 11:00:46 AM— There is nothing in the bill about euthanasia! It does discuss end of life planning, a living will. Oh, by the way that provision was put in by 2 Republican Senators!

What do we need health care insurance for? All we really need to do is go back to the “good old days” when we used leeches for everything.
What’s REALLY great about using leeches is that we seem to be infested with them in Washington DC!!! There’s PLENTY to go around!!

and, sentinel, i am in no way in denial of republican corruption. I know it exists and i will fight it too…to the best of my ability. But guess what? I also realize the there is a LOT of corruption in your party as well. That’s the point of one of my posts: you guys show that you hold my party to higher standards. You want perfection from the GOP (it is NOT perfect) but accept mediocrity from the Dems. When a dem is caught in corruption, you circle the wagons around him. When a GOP is caught in corruption, the party censures him….

For those claiming the Republicans are misleading us,
does all the proposed legislations in congress include insuring illegal aliens?

Democrats have zero morals. DE >>>> Cash in the freezer WELFARE programs that destroyed the family unit and kept people in poverty. Thats just a few of the great democratic programs. Democrats have become the party against freedom and the American people. How about the Report your neighbors unleashed by Obama? Brown shirts?

Interesting — Cincy Sheehan can camp out for months in Crawford TX, and she is just excersising her right of free speech — But citizens expressing their disagreement with health care reform are “ANGRY MOBS”??? — WHAT HYPOSCRISY!!!

Obama making statements about misleading information is laughable. He’s a master at that.
The present bill is too expensive, will eventually cause entrenched double digit unemployment like Europe’s through excessive taxation on the population.
We have the example. We know what will happen. Why would we choose to cripple our economy for a minority of citizens who are not covered by insurance…many of whom choose not to buy it…when there could be alternatives…if this administration would slow down and listen to other ideas that never get out of committee.

Democrats are ALL about bringing people down not helping them up. Thats all pushing everyone into misery what a STUPID party.

There are also many liberal supporters of Obama at these rallies raising hell, but you don’t get that from the media.

A volatile mix has resulted. In Mehlville, Mo., St. Louis County police officers arrested six people on Thursday evening, some on assault charges, outside a health care and aging forum organized by Representative Russ Carnahan, a Democrat. Opponents of the proposed changes, organized by the St. Louis Tea Party, apparently clashed with supporters organized by the Service Employees International Union outside a school gym.
>>>>>>>> HERE COME the Brown Shirts with thier clubs to BEAT honest democracy. WELL AMERICA ARE WE GOING TO STAND FOR THIS?
Obama the great uniter?

For those claiming the GOP is misleading us,
does any of the proposed bills include provisions for Government funded abortions despite current law prohibiting it?
To all those that support the legislation, not every dispute from the GOP is a misrepresentation of what is being proposed.

Again, what does Obama expect? More sheeple I guess. Just be honest with the American people for God’s sake. YOU caused this!

toby hill | Aug 8, 2009 10:52:42 AM Obama claimed he wanted a single-payer system and it’s on video him saying so. Deal with it Libs! Obama’s just another lying Communist.——- Yes, he said he wanted one, didn’t mean he’d get it! There are other branches of Govt. that actually take part in this, you know that right? As for Communist, no that would be the “protesters” who don’t want to allow any other voice or message to be heard but theirs. It’s exactly what the brown shirts did in the 30′s.

Does ANYONE really think that the kind of “reform” (read government control of the people) prescribed by O’Bamegalomaniac will help THEM in the long run? We wil ALL suffer down the road. Only O’Bama’s ego will benefit.

Why would Palin put out such an easily refuted claim?
She either is that stupid or she knows that the opposition the healthcare reform is running on lies and crazy emotion. So she has thrown Trig into the furor to gin up more hatred.
Good move mummy.

well, it’s a pretty day in NC, and I have a lawn to mow and a pool to dive into afterwards. I’ve managed to get someone upset enough to co-opt my name and post liberal rants under my ID…so I’m quite proud of that accomplishment. Shows the desperation. Second Look, my dear…if you see any more posts from me that praise the Chosen One….rest assured, one of two things have happened: Either it’s that imposter that wants to be me….or I’ve had a frontal lobotamy. And i’m pretty sure that i have no surgery planned for today

WHEN THE PRESIDENT WANTS OUR OPINION HE’LL GIVE IT TO US. That’s the way it works in Chicago >>>No Common Sense in
DC >>>> I have to admit the peope in IL avoid confrontation and thats why are are sheep that Blago and the rest of the Chicago MOB have taken advantage
of for decades. The CITY is a MESS thanks to Daley.
Schools? Aweful.
Streets? In sad shape.
Murder Rate? WOW we are working on a record.
And the people? LAY DOWN here like nothing is happening. The Democrats control everything and we have over 10% unemployment. I FEEL SO GLAD to have democrats run this State.
OH and Obama is from Chicago.

“Why would we choose to cripple our economy for a minority of citizens who are not covered by insurance…many of whom choose not to buy it…”
Get a clue: except at the corporate tippy top, the economy IS crippled — and in years to come, Single Payer health care — which bears NO resemblance to Oblabla’s “insurance reform” — can be a lot of help to EVERYbody.
The “problem” the Democrats’ plans address is the problem of those who HAVE, and those who can afford, medical insurance — which doesn’t work, when it’s needed, for many of those people.
Single Payer health care would be cheaper than what’s going on now — in which dozens of millions of people have NO health care, or crappy “care” from government funded non-profit (corporate) clinics that pass out psycho-meds and pain pills in lieu of actual health care.
Excluding Single Payer — which is what nearly everybody beyond the political elites, who get bazillions FROM the insurance companies, want — from the proposals in Congress has kept the question from being part of the cost estimates.

Obama has proven what kind of president he is going to be.
And it’s not president for all the people.
Only for those who agree with him.
He will dismiss/silence those who don’t.
So this was Obama’s plan to remake America?
And his little sheep follow obediently along with him.

Obama is saying ANYTHING he can to sail this turkey through. When Social Security was installed, the American people were told that there would NEVER be the use of the public funds for things other than the retirement system, that there would NEVER be the use of the social security number as a private tracking system and that the system would NEVER go broke.
Well, all three of those promises were broken.
Now we’re watching a new fascination that the Democrats have with a national system eugenics program being heavily promoted and I can’t help but remember the Social Security system promises. That system was bankrupted once in the 1950s (and everyone had to start their contributions all over again – no explanation!) and also we face the specter of Social Securty doing the same thing again in the early part of this century.
What better way to reign in Social Security spending then to kill off the elderly? That seems to be the “social” argument being talked about seriously in Washington D.C.
The association with Nazi Germany is highly appropriate. Germany lost it’s appreciation for life and liberty in much the same manner as this government is now embracing in Washington D.C. Why are the Democrats so upset when intelligent Americans see the parallels and begin to draw conclusions about intentions of said Democratic party?
Folks… your country is being sold out from under you.
If you don’t like it, write Congress, write the President and speak out. Attend the meetings of local, state and federal government and make it a priority to call them to the carpet for what they do and say.
This matters. Given what I see happening, our very lives now depend on us acting. If we don’t, we’ll literally be leading ourselves to slaughter and slavery (and I am not kidding).

“And his little sheep follow obediently along with him.” Ya, that’s why insurance reform went through so quickly.

Obama caused this with his tyrannical style of leadership. I’ve heard about this kind of stuff from Chicago. i.e. when Mayor Daley bulldosed up Miegs airport “IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!!!” to confiscate land for a pet project of his. By the way, why is it every Mayor of Chicago is always named ‘Daley’?

obama said in 2003 he is for a singlepayer system this a disaster for seniors and the public option of which just about everyone would go to because its cheaper and these congresspeople do not read the bill3200 why in world dosnt obama right his own bill? there will also be a commission set up to ration healthcare and even tell seniors to have a end game option this guy is crazy

max | Aug 8, 2009 11:34:10 AM Obama has proven what kind of president he is going to be.
And it’s not president for all the people.
Only for those who agree with him.
He will dismiss/silence those who don’t.
So this was Obama’s plan to remake America?
And his little sheep follow obediently along with him.—— And would he President for all the people if he did what you the minority want? As for silencing people, what exactly are the “protesters” doing at the town halls? Silencing people! Now, it’s degraded into death threats and assaults! I can remember not to long ago, if you didn’t agree with the whole WMD’s and we need to invade, your were labeled un American, a terrorist lover! Please stop projecting your parties way of dealing with those who have different opinions on the rest of us!

Problem is Obama isn’t apparently reading the bill. If it passes, as written (which it won’t), euthanasia certainly will be as big a controversy twenty years from now as abortion is today. Right now it’s a huge mess. I don’t understand why he doesn’t see the reasons the bill is causing such controversy. And yes, I HAVE read the bill.

Mr. President, What do you expect? You propose a 1000+ page ‘mystery bill’ that not only do legislators not even read, but doesn’t even doesn’t apply to them. And then you set a deadline to ‘ram’ it through before congress goes on recess vacation. And you’re surprised at the push back? It might work in Chicago, but apparently, the rest of the country doesn’t like that kind of governing.

Also, I have private insurance that covers 90% of allowed expenses.. yet in a few years when I become 65, my private insurance will become secondary, thereby transferring the bulk of the cost of medical treatments which are now paid by private insurance on to the taxpayer. There is no talk of reforming this totally wastefull aspect of the current system. They (the government) WANT more people in the system, not less. This is not reform, this is transfer of wealth from private to public sectors.

Seeing Obama mock and smirk while he tells opponents to shut up and get out of his way… When Obama is pushed into a corner his ugly sinister side emerges.” – bailey
Well, gee, its a good thing that you don’t have to have any facts to back up such nonsense. After all, trying to find actually citations for your fantasies might take a while.

By the way, here on the street this is not a partisan thing and it is not organized by insurance companies. Instead, it is a people trying to remain free and defend itself against government intrusion!
My healthcare plan is only 137 pages and does rather well, thank you. It also has no senior counseling for end of life crap.
Obama didn’t like 14 pound bills such as the patriot act being rushed throug in 2004, so why is he upset now that we speak out against such tactics.
His reassurances and marginalizing the opposition comments are simply adding accelerant to the flames!

Fascinating. Those who oppose “health care reform” (which it is not, it’s insurance “reform”) are puppets of Big Corp, according to Obama and his cult.
Gee, I must have missed that phone call from Big CEO offering me money… darn.
In reality, those who shout down opponents (and the shouting is much louder from that side, has been since mid-2008) are the puppets. Incapable of reading for themselves, incapable of reasoning, hearing only what Obama says. Generally with an agenda of their own, after all, many are raising their grandchildren when they’re barely into their thirties. Government handouts have been a part of their lives for two or three generations. And yay! Here’s even more government stuff!
Bottom line, I don’t give a rip if you get all the goodies Obama’s offering for your worship. Just don’t drag us non-believers into your church. That’s what the Holy HR3200 will do, force tithing to something we do not want, to pay for those who expect to be taken care of.

Where the Sam Hill were you people when they passed The Pill Bill? You recall? 2003. Almost all republican. Cost almost 550 BILLION dollars/10 years.

“Oh please, cut the hysterics. You want to talk about ripping the nation apart – where were you during the Viet-nam war? Probably not even born yet.”
–> Remember that Lyndon Johnson, a politician with SOLID accomplishment (including delivering Medicare as a working program in less than a year) behind him, was forced from office by his obsession with “winning” in Viet Nam.
Obama just wants “wins”, regardless of content — He doesn’t care a fig for anything but that psychological validation of Himself.
Is that “crazy”, as one poster here suggests? It seems likely, but crazy or not, it’s bad politics.

do not trust a word obama (not capitalized on purpose) says afterall he is a politician. do NOT trust. I have always voted Democrat but not this time no freaking way and all you obama lovers just sit back and wait you will see just wait.

Premiums are going up, the cost of insurance is going up, cost of meds are going up, cost of overall healthcare is going up, and malpractice insurance is going up. Who can say that they are happy with the status quo? Perhaps the insurance companies. Lets spend our engergies on supporting the possibility of healthcare system that can be more affordable which is what the Obama administration is trying to offer. We can always choose to keep aupporting the current system and the growth of the insurance companies.

The Chicago – You’re supposed to pull your head out of your partisan hoo hoo and THINK. First off? Not only did they lie about this “expansion of entitlement which you guys now call commie on this issue,” BUT – the dang drug companies immediately raised the prices of their old people drugs and took your tax paying butt to the cleaners. Yet here you go sign songing about this like it’s the best idea EVER. The Pill Bill and this? Not a whole lot of difference. Except your leaders are telling you to pitch a fit now.

Anyone who thinks that Obama’s plan is going to alleviate the suffering of the American working class is completely ignorant. Obama is a pawn of the corporate class.

Obama himself has to bear some responsibility for the distortions that are being put out there, he admitted himself he wasn’t aware of some things in the bill, there are 5000 pages of bills and he sends the senators out with nothing but a bunch of rhetoric, no real answers for people because they don’t even know what is in these bills, which one is most likely to pass, or even how the key components will affect people. Not only that the only independent review of this bill is the CBO which wasn’t favorable and also disputed everything Obama said. So is it any wonder that people have questions, I think not. This is the worst leadership for a major proposal that I have ever seen and even the Democrats have been begging for leadership.

Eustace – News Flash. Corporatism rules our politicians on both sides of the isle. They are also ruiling the ones telling you the line of bull they are telling you. You guys yell about how everything out of Obama’s mouth is a lie when you’re being fed lies yourself and you don’t even know it.

“If the issues are ‘so outlandish’, why are some of the members of congress so hesitant to get into specifics with their constituents?”…….. Gee, I don’t know. Maybe because it’s not finalized, and they don’t even know what they are?

Then if they will get it health care they should have to pay. Currently the bill does not seem to cover nonresident aliens, that includes illegal aliens, student visas, work visas, etc.
Nonresident visitors, are excluded.
Are we supposed to foot the bill without any help from them on the benefits they receive from it?
Eustace:
“winz illegals are already covered. They get care if they walk into a hospital. This is more about the middle class. Neither side of the isle is going to touch the illegal issue.”

This comment section is indicative of why real reform will fail. The anti health reform remarks are based on false “facts”. Facts that are out there, but they refute them as lies with out being able to substantiate their interpretation of the bills. Talk about loud, please? Where are the comments from pro health care reform? An apathetic society ran by the loud and ignorant, while we scurry around like ants trying to survive on what little the corporations have left to us.

Hmm. This is almost surreal to watch. If you step back, and simply observe as clinically as possible, you’d say the country is at a decision point.
What’s almost awe inspiring is that these townhall audiences are really self-generated, and not organized nefariously by some shadowy group, as Gibbs keeps saying.
They don’t look like the kind of people who would just hit the streets in response to an ACORN or MoveOn org-type call to arms, which the Democrats have benefited so much from. Moderates and conservatives don’t have that kind of instant network. Besides, conservatives don’t operate that way — it’s the nature of the beast.
These are the silent people who have a long, long fuse, and usually just shrug their shoulders at DC excesses. Getting them out of their plaid Ethan Allen easy chairs takes some doing. When their own elected leadership cavalierly dismisses their concerns, calls them manufactured mobs, and sends in union thugs to silence them, well, let me just say this: “Don’t you get between me and my Medicare, son.”
Obama and congress took an adversarial, defensive posture from the outset. Instead of bringing critics to their point of view, they intimidated, tried to chill debate, and called out the union thugs. They talked about “battle plans” and getting critics out of the way so Obama can “clean up their mess”. Instead of telling voters why this bill is an improvement, they hurled insults.
While I’m sure M. Steele would be flattered that the WH gives the GOP so much credit for this turnout, that’s not it either. These people probably sniff at Republicans the same way they roll their eyes at Democrats.
You just can’t have union thugs beating up black conservatives on the street. You cannot have AFL-CIO leaders menacingly promising their own members will flood the townhalls. This country doesn’t work that way.
The American people aren’t a “special interest group”, they’re the electorate, and if you want to get a bill passed, you have to go through them. The WH is talking like they don’t even understand how the American system works.
The WH should look at the proposals offered by C. Krauthammer today, maybe that could be a way to pull the debate back to the substance of health issues. (Tort reform, malpractice, etc…)

“This is the worst leadership for a major proposal that I have ever seen and even the Democrats have been begging for leadership.”
The only possible salvation is to vote for the Weiner amendment, substituting Single Payer (HR 676) for these pig bills.

2brixshy -> just another of those who have handed over their brains to their puppet-masters, the drug companies and Fox. You’d think people would be embarrassed to be owned by clowns such as Glenn Beck. Bill Maher had a fascinating commentary on the dumbing-down of America this week. But of course people such as 2brix won’t even listen to him because “he’s part of the liberal elite.” And the great empire that was America spirals downward…

I actually read the Health Care plan. It was long and boring but I LOVE the power of knowing when someone is full of it when they make silly claims. Some of you should try it…knowledge is power.
I listen to politicians or radio personalities and wonder if they are really as dumb as a box of rocks or intentionally misleading dumb Americans.

“They talked about “battle plans” and getting critics out of the way so Obama can “clean up their mess”. Instead of telling voters why this bill is an improvement, they hurled insults.”
It’s not terribly surprising that putting a race-baiting Chicago mobster in charge of the White House isn’t working out well, except for the corporations who are emptying the Treasury at a great rate.

obama is lying about everything he is a danger to the american way of life.

These people may or may not be republicans but they are spurred on by three very prominent republicans. Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck. They continue to give out distorted truths and are spurring these people on to continue this type of demonstrations. Freedom of speech works both ways. To keep shouting which they are advised to do and not let the people speak is not free speech. The dates of these meeetings have been sent out to republicans so that they can demonstrate and they have been sent by Mr. Rick Scott. He admitted this on R. Sanchez’ show. Mr. Sanchez asked him about the fact that he and his company received the highest fine (1.7Billion dollars) for defrauding the medicade and medicare system by charging for procedures which never happened and increasing unnecessary procedures. He did not deny this and said well so what I am not in jail. This is the type of people who the frightened are listening to instead the people who can straighten them out with facts. They don’t want you to know the facts just what they want to propagate.

Who are behind this? The insurance companies are. They know if there is a public option in place, the insurance companies will go out of business because they will not be able to compete with the government. Well, that is what we need. Lower premiums. Now people cannot afford to buy health insurance because it is so expensive. The American people are filing for bankruptcy because they cannot continue paying monthly high insurance premiums. The CEOs at the insurance companies deny claims because they put money in their pockets. But who suffers? The American people do even though they have been paying for years their monthly insurance premiums. Enough, let’s fix this problems. If the Democrats have to do it without the Republicans, so be it. We did the same with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. The Republicans did not help. President Barack Obama was elected to fix this problem. That is a mandate. Democrats go and fight this one. Do not trust the Republicans. They will not help the American people. All they want is money like the CEOs at the insurance companies. Let’s fight this one and we will win Democrats.

So far, it seems there are several failures in the bill.
The CBO predicts that the deficit will rise substantially and escalate rapidly after ten years. Congress should plan ahead and resolve the issue before it gets to a crisis point.
President Obama has often blamed the previous administration for the current problems, rather then considering that decades of Congressional laws had more effect then the past administration, and Congress has ignored it for decades.
Yet, he is creating a big mess for future administrations and future generations.
They need to plan ahead, and let us know how this is going to be controlled now.
The bill does not lower costs in health care, which was one of the main reasons for it.
Nonresidents will not have to buy insurance or pay penalties and or taxes if they fail to buy it. However, we will continue to provide health care for them as needed.
If a nonresident alien, illegal or legal has access to health care, which they will of course, they should have health insurance rather then burdening us with uninsured health care costs.

Mj, you mean the Medicaid recipients who in one breath scream “don’t you dare touch my Medicaid” and then in the next breath scream “NO SOCIALIZED medicine?” Are you referring to those people?

“Here is all anyone needs to know about Obama flag@whitehouse.gov
YES if people disagree you collect their information. Have your neighbor SPY on you. Stalin would be so proud.”
Didn’t they include an option for prospective informants who DON’T use computers?

It seems that Fox has released all its Sean-sheep and commanded them to do the insurance companies’ bidding. Actually, maybe they have a point about this socialism thing: clearly the “socialist” system that is our public education is failing Americans terribly when they so easily get manipulated by fact-free demagoguery.

President Obama and the Democrats deny your statements.
Shall we not trust the President and Democrats to? Shall we only trust you?
According to them it will not put health insurance companies out of business.
Most American’s do not want government run insurance, so if as you say that is what will happen, Congress should not pass it.
The “medical bankruptcies” are often touted as an example of why we need a single payer option, but I’ve read the reports and considered the data the reports were based upon.
The resolution to medical bankruptcies, are the same as many other bankruptcies, teaching responsible financial behavior, and budgeting.
Patty commented:
Who are behind this? The insurance companies are. They know if there is a public option in place, the insurance companies will go out of business because they will not be able to compete with the government. Well, that is what we need. Lower premiums. Now people cannot afford to buy health insurance because it is so expensive. The American people are filing for bankruptcy because they cannot continue paying monthly high insurance premiums. The CEOs at the insurance companies deny claims because they put money in their pockets. But who suffers? The American people do even though they have been paying for years their monthly insurance premiums. Enough, let’s fix this problems. If the Democrats have to do it without the Republicans, so be it. We did the same with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. The Republicans did not help. President Barack Obama was elected to fix this problem. That is a mandate. Democrats go and fight this one. Do not trust the Republicans. They will not help the American people. All they want is money like the CEOs at the insurance companies. Let’s fight this one and we will win Democrats.

“What is the difference between public education and public option (health care)?”
One big difference is that so far public education hasn’t been scaled down to ten million people, as the phony-baloney “public option” — slated to disappear altogether — has.

Have you read the bill?
I have. In as much as Palin’s statements suggested it could lead to that, the bill does seem to have that as a possibility.
There are not enough controls on the Secretary, Committe, and other buerocrats, and little to none accountability.
jock59801 commented:
It is getting very sad when a former Vice-Presidential candidate can come out with mean-spirited lies, like Obama wanting to appoint bureaucrats to decide if her son should live, and she is not ridiculed by liberal and conservative alike.
jock59801

clearly the “socialist” system that is our public education is failing Americans terribly when they so easily get manipulated by fact-free demagoguery. AmericanPatriot >>>> AGREED

YES if people disagree you collect their information. Have your neighbor SPY on you. Stalin would be so proud.”
The Bush administration said exactly the same thing. Were you complaining then?

The Bush administration said exactly the same thing. Were you complaining then? jock59801 >>>>>> YES I was

roger king
At least he didn’t claim that they weren’t real Americans, like Sarah Palin, Bill, O’Reilly, and a large number of posters on here do about liberals.

I haven’t seen freedom loving Americans this energized and patriotic since 9/11.
Maybe it took a president as radical and controlling as Obama to wake us up. To make us appreciate freedom of speech and freedom of choice and privacy.
For those of us that hate big government that sticks their nose into our lives–and loathe a president that thinks he knows everything and knows what is best for us
We have to keep our eye on the goal of taking our country back in 2010/2012.

“The Bush administration said exactly the same thing. Were you complaining then?”
Yes. Bush was a mediocre president and set into play some very dangerous precedents. Obama has gone one BIG step farther in asking the American people to rat on their neighbors, families and co-workers.
Question: If labor unions health care decided by collective bargaining is opted out of the health care overhaul, why is the SEIU sending purple shirted goons to town halls?

“The resolution to medical bankruptcies, are the same as many other bankruptcies, teaching responsible financial behavior, and budgeting.”
Does that include the “bankruptcy” of the US government, for which Geithner was begging Congress, only yesterday, to extend the debt?
Many Americans — millions upon millions of them, each of whom is, or will be, in need of medical care — are now far below the upper-middle-class game of “bankruptcy”.
Hothouse hustler Obama hasn’t QUITE denounced poverty as the result of “bad behavior”, but He’s come close, and — barring impeachment for playing fast and loose with the Treasury — has a couple of years of stupid opinions yet to be delivered.
Shoring up the well-employed, as their ranks thin by thousands a day, and ignoring what’s going on beyond the suburbs, is just dumb. Cash for Clunkers — benefitting the same group — is about as good an example of official idiocy, aside from the “insurance reform” scam, as one could wish.

“Yes. Bush was a mediocre president and set into play some very dangerous precedents. Obama has gone one BIG step farther in asking the American people to rat on their neighbors, families and co-workers.”………. Bush wanted to easedrop on all phonecalls, etc. but this is worse? ALL THIS IS is “to help me stop the bogus lies let me know what they are.” Considering how bad it’s gotten off the GOP I can’t exactly blame the man for trying to nip it.

White House to Democrats: ‘Punch back twice as hard’
Obama the great divider!!

“When President Obama was running for office a man who had wrote a book about him was on a Chicago radio station discussing the book. What happened? Emails flew out instructing callers to the show to disrupt it. Who sent the emails? No need to ask. Was that an organized response?”
Not to worry: when the ACTUAL Mob does it, it’s okay.

The very word option is misleading, pol tested I am sure. Where is the option for those on Medicare, there is none? They are forced into the govt. system, barred from buying private insurance even if they can afford it and would rather have it. They can buy supplemental but I have seen nothing in these bills that will allow Americans to do the same if they don’t like the so called ‘option.’. In Europe they offer supplemental for those who don’t like the public system.

kathy >>> The current democratic rammed bills are no good. The ideas to make a better system exist and they dont cost anything. Whats the problem? I can tell you the problem is the objective is not to fix anything. If fixing this was the point they would listen to the CBO. Take the good ideas they agree on like allowing for state pooling to reduce costs and pass them. Instead they want to ram a public option down your throat. And after the messed up cash for clunkers program you think this 1100 page junk full of spending is going
to fix anything? Really do you believe that? Did you read any of it? If you did you would be in shock at the junk in it.

ChicagoBob
I agree that some of the bills are not very good, but not because they have a public option, but because some do NOT have a public option. Without a public option, we will continue to be at the mercy of profit-seeking insurance companies. I really don’t understand why people are defending he current system.

You hear it from the Obama haters on here all the time. jock59801 >>>>> Yeah I hear the koolaid drinkers all the time. No facts just words like haters and Republicans are evil. Funny in Chicago I think the same thing of Democrats like Blago who was strong arming a Childrens Cancer hospital for campaign funds. How is that for a model Democrat that Obama campaigned for?
Cheap shots help no one. You have not read the bill and probably are paid to post. Obama was great at doing that during the campaign.

OUTLANDISH? HOW SO – LOTS OF BS BY LEFT, BUT THEY ARE UNABLE TO DEBATE IN-DEPH ISSUE BY ISSUE. OPTION? WHAT OPTION? HOW CAN THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES COMPETE AGAINST THE POWER OF THE FED. I WOULD GIVE THEM TWO YEARS MAX TO REMAIN ALIVE. THEN MILLIONS TO LOSE JOBS – AND THEN THERE WOULD BE “NO OPTION” DUH!!

People will say anything to scare others out of their wits about anything Obama does or says.Where were all the fearmongers when Bush was in office?If he messes up,don’t vote for him again,that’s your right.I don’t have any idea what Hannity,Rush.Dobbs,O’Reilly,Susteren and the nut Beck(who needs to be admitted in a mental institution)will have to talk about on their show when Obama is out of office.Until then I think a couple of them may have a nervous breakdown if they are not careful.

Lee, i read with interest you claim that we “rich, old, white, straight guys” not caring about the ‘lower class’. That is a very interesting observation. Gleaned from what source. I’m not easily offended, but you just managed to offend me. I’m old, I’m white, well off, and straight. And for the past 2 and a half years, my old, white, straight wife and I have been giving up our vacation time and travelling to the gulf coast to help rebuild katrina damage. We are in no way compensated (except for tax deductions for our expenses), but are more richly rewarded than you can imagine. And you know what? The Gulf Coast, from Pascagoula to Wavelend is FILLED with old white straight rich guys that are donating their time and money. The horrible Christians are down there with their various churches. The Amish are there in their humble ways. You know what I have NOT seen? I have not seen the self proclaimed atheists that complain about the christians. I see few minority groups down there. And the ones that are there are pretty much conservative, giving people. Can’t afford the time to give up? How about money? These old white rich guys sure have given a lot. Why do you liberals insist on demonizing wealth? Why is success of whites such a big deal? I have yet to hear any one of you whine about Oprah’s BILLIONS, or the unrealistic salaries in the NBA. Julius Peppers makes over 1.3 MILLION dollas a game. Even if he sits on the bench. (Don’t get me wrong…i admire the athletes. But why is their success not vilified?) I think you talk of something you know nothing about. Sounds like you want something for nothing…and think you deserve part of my earnings and/or savings

I DON’T GET IT? WHY DOESN’T THE FED TRY TO FIND WAYS TO FIX THE CURRENT HEALTH SYSTEM FIRST?? DOESN’T THAT MAKE MORE SENSE? MOST OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM ISN’T BROKEN.” WHY TRASH THE WHOLE THING??

I DON’T GET IT? WHY DOESN’T THE FED TRY TO FIND WAYS TO FIX THE CURRENT HEALTH SYSTEM FIRST?? Manitu >>>> You know why. Its not about fixing anything. Its about control, power and spending.

imjustnoisy, the fear mongers were there when Bush was in office. It’s just that they were shouting from YOUR side of the field. And chief among them was the man that became president. He was the main fear mongerer. Even afte elected and sworn in he continued to use fear to get his agenda passed thru. Remember him saying about the stimulus bill, “Every day this is delayed, 10,000 jobs will be lost!” (FEAR). The interesting thing about that, though, is that when congress presented him with the bill on a Wednesday, he put off signing it until the following Monday so he could get prime time. So, by his own fear mongering figures, he, his narcissistic self cost this country an additional 50,000 jobs. He’s trying the same words with this bill. “If we don’t pass it by August, so many more jobs will be lost. The economy will not recover”. (fear mongering). So don’t think that your guys don’t do the same. It’s just that you guys hold the GOP to such a higher standard. IF there is fear mongering from this side, you squeal like a stuck pig. From your side? “Oh, well, it’s free speech.”

“Little-known administrative policies adopted by the government in 1993 and strengthened in 2002 say that seniors can’t refuse Part A coverage unless they give up their Social Security benefits”……. Do you know the names of these?

Secondlook >>>> Wow that was a useless response. What do you want to say? Do you have any facts that contradict the CBO assesment? No? Then you must have read the bill and can tell me how page 16 wont destroy the current health insurance system. You can explain why ILLEGAL pay for clinics are poping up in Canada. And maybe you explain why TORT reform isnt in any legislation to reduce the cost. How about a way to get more doctors. Democrats and their blind support is a joke. Just blind name calling like kids in the back of a classroom. Useless bable.
Posted by: ChicagoBob ………. Bob, when you take note that a huge EXPANSION took place in 2003 maybe we can have a real conversation. In the meantime? Why are we discussing the Canadia system when that isn’t even what this is?

I can read and I read the bill. The only disinformation is the lies that are coming from the White House about what is in the bill.

“This is “he said, she said” journalism of the worst sort. Saying something like ‘what he called “outlandish rumors” ‘ implies that it is his opinion and a reasonable person might disagree.”
For some outlandish dissembling from Oblabla, see the new thread, “What Did The White House Know About the PhRMA Deal?”

It’s time for Obama and his personal agenda and that of the liberal left to learn what Lincoln said “You can’t fool all the people all of the time”!
The Representatives should have their town meeting and public gatherings and hear what their citizens think. Keeping the conversation low key and quiet is to their advantage, as it is to the Chinese, Iran and used to be to Iraq and even Germany in the late 1930s!

I read that Obamahasn’t read the full bill. If so, how can he make any comments on what is factual in it?

imjustnoisy said: ” . . . People will say anything to scare others out of their wits about anything Obama does or says.Where were all the fearmongers when Bush was in office?If he messes up,don’t vote for him again,that’s your right.”.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Read H.R. 3200 and then determine if you care to adjust your attitude. If you are too lazy or ignorant to do that, then you deserve the fate that is about to befall you.

“Outlandish rumors”?
Like Obama suggesting that that a 99 year old woman take a blue pill instead of get a pacemaker?
That would have killed the woman.
Health care would be dictated by the likes of Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and Chris Dodd.
Barack Obama knows his words are false. ANY plan put forth now is but a stepping stone to complete government control of health care.

ANY health care plan that does not Obama, his family and ALL current and past members of Congress should NEVER be passed.

Bob, when you take note that a huge EXPANSION took place in 2003 maybe we can have a real conversation.Secondlook>>> What expansion are you talking about? The GDP which is a GOOD thing. We reached unemployment numbers that economists said were impossible. And that should tell you what they know. Expansion because Bush was a weak knee’d man who gave into the democratic bashing that the republicans were cold hearted and giving into Medicare prescription drug coverage? You mean that deficit?
You mean that expansion ?
More worthless spouting off.

I would have guessed you for a person that regularly visited the left sites.
They are of the view that it is single payer or will lead to it.
It is well known that this is meant to lead to a single payer plan. Democrat leaders and their supporting gropus have indeed “promised” it.
Obama trying to say it doesn’t now is just him being a politician.
*************************************
Secondlook >>>> This is where we discuss “desires” vs. “reality.” See, I desire world peace but that will never happen. I desire the GOP to dial it down a dang notch because they are going to get somebody killed. Won’t happen. So, in a nutshell? Obama can “desire” all he wants and that in NO WAY implies it will become a reality because of a little thing called congress and writing legislation. Next we can discuss how the GOP is playing you people.

Nonsense. The claims are neither “outlandish” or “misleading” . . . all you must do is read and understand H.R. 3200 to debunk that claim. Obama has either not read the house resolution; is lying; or, simply supports this frightening socialist manifesto.
Posted by: rplat | Aug 8, 2009 1:46:35PM ******************** I have perused the bill and I don’t interpret many of the things the way some do. For instance, the “death panel” doesn’t exist. It just gives people the right to make their own end of life decisions. It offers you the choice of having your doctor explain your options, which in my area, already happens. The worry that the government will have access to all your financial dealings, that already exists in the form of the IRS. However, one area I don’t agree with is mandating that small businesses provide insurance to even part-time employees or face penalties. This bill is simply for those that can’t afford health insurance, but make too much to qualify for Medicaid (welfare). Those that have insurance, can keep it. Insurance companies are already making decisions about whether you get treatment or not every day.

I am really starting to LOATHE all Republicans and hope they all die!!!!! Debbie Curnes <<<<< A mature and informed opinion from a fool. You haven't read the bill either have you?

“Those that have insurance, can keep it.”
That’s a canard. Obama is flat out lying when he says that. He has no intention of abiding by that statement. He jerked doctors around with reimbursement fees and played them with tort statements.
Obama cannot be trusted with the health of the nation.

I also see no reason why there isn’t forced modernization and standardization to help lower costs. In essence there is no reason that I can see why this can’t happen within the private system while still allowing choice. Ferrari5858>>>>> You going to start labor camps? Maybe you need to drive people into barb wired fenced areas to FORCE them to do what you want. We can just print more money since it will be worthless. You have any idea whats in the constitution?

“Outlandish rumors”?
Like Obama suggesting that that a 99 year old woman take a blue pill instead of get a pacemaker?Posted by: drjohn | Aug 8, 2009 1:54:05 PM******************* Yes, that is outlandish!! Actually they were talking about a 100 year old woman. Sometimes, no matter the age, pills would be better than surgery because if you are not in good health maybe the surgery would kill you. (excerpt from Politifact on ABC’s June 24 special hosted by Gibson and Sawyer talking about a 100 year old person)”Maybe this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller. And those kinds of decisions between doctors and patients, and making sure that our incentives are not preventing those good decisions, and that — that doctors and hospitals all are aligned for patient care, that’s something we can achieve.” Sometimes people need to read the whole article (which I did).

“Yes, that is outlandish!! Actually they were talking about a 100 year old woman. Sometimes, no matter the age, pills would be better than surgery because if you are not in good health maybe the surgery would kill you.”
I am a doctor.
The woman in question did receive a pacemaker at 99 and has survived to 105 so far.
Your remark is completely ignorant. If a person is not deemed strong enough for surgery, surgery is not done, no matter what the age.
You need to come to grips with a fact: the only way to reduce health care costs is to reduce health care. It will be rationed, and Obama is absolutely dishonest about it.

If you have a doctor under your employer’s plan and your employer drops that plan, are your guaranteed to keep your doctor?

If Washington wanted to HONESTLY reform the plan, then they’d first have a blue ribbon panel to determine what’s not working. Then formulate a plan to rememdy the deficiency(ies). Have they done this?

Posted by: ChicagoBob | Aug 8, 2009 2:09:34 PM By your argument, there would be no housing codes and every other form of regulation that we currently live under, no restrictions either. I am against govt. run health care for anyone, I am also against social security, Medicare and the VA system. I am not against Medicaid but I would also rather have the govt. just send the poor a check so they can purchase their own insurance within the private system.

There are no successful socialized healthcare programs. Why should we jeopardize what we have. We just need tort reform!

We just need tort reform!
And term limits on elected officials. Why should we have to pay life-long retirement and health care benefits for politicians.
My view of the Constitution is that it’s framers intended representation “by the people” to be more like jury duty and less like “grab all the gold you can while you are there”.
Don’t hear any of the 374 lawyers talking about tort reform or term limits, do ya?

What information is there that shows that government controlled health care and health insurance in this country, is more cost effective, considering as many pertinent details as feasible, then private health care and health insurance?
The studies I have found, those that considered more then the surface factors anyhow, show the opposite. That private care is more cost effective, especially considering that they have to meet regulations and laws that the government does not have to meet.

Insuring illegal aliens will be the political suicide of the Democrats.

Obama is still out there putting out the half-truth that if we want to keep our current plan and current doctor we can. Well, it will start out that way, but eventually the public plan will crowd out private plans that can’t compete because of the mandates put on them by the government, and eventually doctors will be in short supply as they retire and aren’t replaced because they won’t be paid enough to make all the education and hard work worth it. Common sense tells you that when the government subsidized plan or product competes against private ones, that is not really a true competition as public plans can be susbsidized to the lowest cost a congressman or president wants to push it. Common sense also tells you that when a doctor can’t make enough money to pay off his loans and reward the insanely long hours they work, there will be fewer of them. The rural areas will be hardest hit by a doctor shortage, but those in DC could care less.

Posted by: DogInDaHunt2 | Aug 8, 2009 2:40:09 PM
You just made my point, God doesn’t force you to do any of that but there are consequences.
You can choose to suffer whatever consequences that come about due to your own actions, that choice is offered by God but make no mistake it is still a choice.—–
I live near a town where ten people died in a fire, probably caused by using space heaters. Now obviously they couldn’t afford heat, does the govt. require that everyone have heat, or electricity even though it would be for the common good, no they don’t. As for these people, at some point didn’t they realize that having ten people in a house meant that they were outgrowing their ability to take care of themselves. Should someone have gone in and made them get two jobs to enable them to pay their own way or should the govt. have forced the utilities to pay for their heat or should these people have been allowed to make a choice to do for themselves the best they could even though they suffered the greatest consequence, losing their life.

we all know it is about CONTROL, not health care. Obama wants to destroy doctor-patient privledge and wants a political henchman, who is unelected, to control a centralized database containing personal and health information of every American. This would likely contain: health history, sexual history, prescriptions, dna, bloodtype, dental records, mental health history, psychiatric records, etc.
This data is very useful in politics, for blackmail, or even in the worst case scenario for framing people.

“Every economist on the earth knows that this plan will cause the cost of private health insurance to rise.”
Are you trying to claim that without a public option the cost of private plans is going to stay the same or go down?? It must be news to you then that the cost of these private plans is going to skyrocket anyway.

If illegal aliens are paying into a public option at least they will be contributing something to healthcare costs instead of receiving healthcare in emergency rooms and paying nothing.

It’s so transparent it’s laughable. Reality Check
What facts are you bringing to the table? Oh I forgot its not about debate or facts its about ramming a bad bill down everyone’s throat. Its about control and being a demagogue.

If illegal aliens are paying into a public option Skip>>>> You think the democrats want their new voting block to pay? ROFL. They will find a way to make everyone else pay. Because lets face it its all about CONTROL and POWER and bringing down the hard workers. If you cant win by playing fair make up new rules and cheat until everyone is miserable. Its the democratic mantra.

“So what you are telling me is we are spending over a trillion dollars for nothing”
No, we’re going to make heath insurance available to everybody. I know to right-wingers that might be nothing but to us it’s everything.

Your remark is completely ignorant. If a person is not deemed strong enough for surgery, surgery is not done, no matter what the age. winz <<<<<< Really you read the bill correct? Remember Obama said maybe you just need to take the pain PILL. You have to laugh when the President tells you out of his own mouth people ignore it. again Winz did you read HR3200? Can you read HR3200? Do you think its free? Are you giving 11% or more of your take home?
If you make 20K a year you now make less than 18K. thats about 200 a month less take home. How is that working for you.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. Ben Franklin. This is what the Obama NUTS want us to do. DONT SIT DOWN GO to the town halls and you make sure EVERYONE knows what you stand for.

No, we’re going to make heath insurance available to everybody. I know to right-wingers that might be nothing but to us it’s everything. Skip >>>>> Thats a lie SKIP CBO said over 30 million wont be insured by HR3200. BUT YOU DONT CARE because you cant READ. You just buy the ,,, from ObamaNUTS

“Thats a lie SKIP CBO said over 30 million wont be insured by HR3200″
Since your reading skills are superior enlighten us as to who these 30 million people are.

You’re straying into propaganda. Skip>>>> I get quite enough from CNN and MSNBC every night thanks.
How few there are who have courage enough to own their faults, or resolution enough to mend them. Ben Franklin. And it fits whats going on with the failed Democrat party. They avoid owning their own faults. They avoid the resolution to mend whats wrong. Instead they run from them as they RUN like they run from their voters. Afraid that people actually see through their fake facade. They work you and ME. And we need to FIRE them for they deserve not the duty they were entrusted with as they vote not for their country or its people but for their party. These current congressmen and President are not people to be entrusted with the public good.

You’re arguing out of both sides of your mouths again. Skip >>>> More baseless words. Skip its kinda like you only want to name call. Do you have no facts to offer? Guess not.

Ferrari5858 – Yet again you continuously demonstrate that you live a life without Christ, without faith. Perhaps, this is the reason for your hardness of heart; why you cannot, and will not, acknowledge your interconnectedness with your neighbors.
Read your bible. Open your book, and your heart to Ecclesiastes.
“I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happens to them all.” – Ecclesiastes 9:11
Perhaps if someone had cared enough to look into the families well being, instead of looking past them, tragedy may have been averted. You look down upon those less fortunate than you, and with a false certainty and self-assurdness that blinds you to your own callousness. No good can come of it.
We are all connected. What effects one, affects all. Or perhaps you failed to notice the vacant burned out house that now sits as a reminder? The same house that’s lowering the property values of the neighboring homes on that block, of all the homes in your community.
On a final note: Those were people, not undesirables. While you cast them out as indigents who had it coming because they lived 10 to a house and couldn’t afford to keep their lights on; someone now mourns, for a lifetime, for each of those perished souls.
Shame on you.

ChicagoBob,
The cut and pastes are looking confusing, but let me explain how it works from my reading. And yes I have read the current bill. I have also read other laws, and read legal precedent on some of those issues that might apply here. I like to read.
They will be get health care either way. No one will be turned away for health care.
This will hold true whether it is in the bill or not. Simply because if they do they will be open to litigation for not giving equal tretment to minorities, checking immigration status, or any other thing possible.
It will be cheaper for medical professionals to give the care and make the costs up some where else, as they do now.
A bill can say that no illegal aliens get a benefit, but as long as there is no mechansim in the bill to verify whether a given person is legal or illegal, assume they will get the benefit. THat is the idea for not putting the mechansim there in the first place.
The health insurance companies cannot check immigration status, the medical professionals cannot check it.
So they will get health care.
They will get health insurance when using fake documents.
The insurance companies or medical proffessionals will not be able to do any checking.
Since they are going to get it, make them and their employer pay, and pay high. Do not give them any subsidy, and in the event that they get caught, have strict penalties specific, much as they do have for businesses now.
Do not let them walk free, they will get the care anyhow.
ChicagoBob >>>> does all the proposed legislations in congress include insuring illegal aliens?
winz >>>> HR3200 does Not sure about all the legislation since the Senate isnt out of committee. Winz why cant they fix the current system first? And if this is such a great system shouldnt the President and all of congress be forced to be FIRST in line at the clinics or what ever he is mandating.

Please, allow the president to do his job. Those pesons in need don’t have jobs, insurance, laptops, or internet to way in on the topic.
CNN & other media is only fueling division of this country with daily air time to the party of no action. What is that point?
My health ins doubled during the Bush years. I am retired with insurance and one illness cleared $40,000 out of my pocket.

Just cant wait untill obama crowd goes to dr. office and there is waiting room full of big butted women watching judge judy on tv while their 7 children roll and scream in floor.NOW THERE IS CHANGE YOU CAN BELEIVE IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Paws! whoah! I like Judge Judy. And I got no big butt! Actually quoted her in here today in respect to this fiasco called Obama care: “Don’t pee on my leg and try to convince me it’s raining”. Judy is great! But i gotta admit, seeing who sponsors her (mostly “call me i’m hurt” law firms), i can see the target audience probably is the big butted bama belles

mitchell, I honestly do not believe anyone when they claim to have read the whole bill. But you can find a copy by googling HR3200 and follow some links. But that bill is not the final bill. And anyone in here claiming to have read it all…well, i don’t think they are truthful. There are some pretty intelligent folks in here (on both sides), but i really don’t think there’s a one with the legalese to have read and understand the bill…..just take it with a grain of salt when they make that claim

Obama is taking care of his union pals. He has proposed taxing health care subsidies that my and your employers provide us. By the way, he derided McCain for this very idea, but that is another point. Once he proposed that tax, he immediately exempted the union workers from having to pay on THEIR subsidies…..croneyism at its finest

We need a bit more than $900 billion per year to fully fund a US version of the British National Health Service (universal health care).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Which is rationed and has serious problems, Why do you want to bring down the health insurance in America to a lower level? Why is that always the democrats goal? DRAG everyone down lift no one up.
Can they fix the current system? If the answer is NO then what makes anyone believe they can make a system that actually works and is better than what we have?
Everybody but the health care ‘industry’ wins AC >>>>> Really? Who will advance medicine and health care without profit? What would be the point? Who would be a doctor for minimum wage? who will pay for malpratice? How much rationing will you wait for?

ChicagoBob
I don’t know who said that, but we are not talking here about anything like the British system, which obviously has many problems (as do all systems).

Obama hasn’t debunked anything. Obama is a liar. Nice bit o’ biased reporting going on here.

Its simple really. They have been told to want reform. The mulitple mass media articles which used the flawed who rankings, without giving the explaination on the data would be part of it. Specifically those that use that same ranking to “show” that government care aka single payer is better. Those that have single payer got a bonus because they are single payer, it is part of the calculation.
Those articles that say government care has less administrative costs then private care. The administrative costs are two different things.
Government accounting does not directly compare to the same costs in business accounting. Many costs of government, are shoved off to other budgets.
When the same definition, as close as can be done, are used the costs are about the same.
People have a poor understanding because they aren’t given facts, and are instead given talking points. Even when facts are given, they are often misrepresented or statistics misused.
So 80% of the 85% percent, which looks like it includes current government insurance, rate it at either good or better.
The Rasmussen poll did ask about insurance. It does not look like governemnt, or private was specified.
3* Do you have health insurance?
85% Yes
14% No
2% Not sure
4* (answered only by those who have health insurance) How do you rate your own health insurance coverage?
35% Excellent
45% Good
15% Fair
4% Poor
0% Not sure
“If 80 to 90 percent of Americans are happy with their coverage,why not listen to them?”
You may mean the percentage of Americans who have insurance, not just all Americans. But it still doesn’t make sense when a large majority of Americans want reform. They must be unhappy about something.

I don’t know who said that, but we are not talking here about anything like the British system, which obviously has many problems (as do all systems).
jock59801 >>>>>> Yes you are. HR3200 is going to create a bunch of new Czar like people. A board (cant recall the initials) which have all kinds of controls. I REALLY dont want this kind of federal control. There is WAY to much corruption and incompetence in government. Why make another system? You want to allow states to create POOLs that would eliminate the preexisting condition issue. You want to lower costs work on MalPratice insurance which is an INSANE cost for doctors.
You can also mandate health insurance be sold like life insurance. FIXED rate for the entire time of the policy.
You can also address the coverage issue as well. There are so many simple things that can be done but I repeat myself. WHY can you not fix the current system first. PROVE to the American people you can do something RIGHT before you ask me and everyone else to take a TRILLION dollar gamble.

Mr president, what a great job you’re doing. You have millions supporting unlike a minority cry babies popping up in town hall meetings and posting negative ignorant remarks.
Go Mr President!

Jock, no. He has proposed it. Not Obama himself….his administration. Hang on, i’ll show you.

TWO IDENTICAL CANCER PATIENTS. ONE IN THE US AND THE OTHER FROM ANYWHERE ELSE. WHICH ONE WILL BE LIKELY TO LIVE LONGER? THAT IS THE ONLY TRUE TEST FOR LONGEVITY. APPLES TO APPLES PLEASE!!!
WITH ALL ITS FAULTS, THE US HAS THE BEST HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. WHAT COUNTRIES HAVE A JOHNS HOPKINS, A MAYO CLINIC OR A CLEVELAND CLINIC?
A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS WORKING “VERY WELL” NO EFFORT HAS BEEN SPENT BY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO IMPROVE THE CURRENT SYSTEM – SAYS A LOT DOESN’T IT??

Thank you pana for your oh so intelligent comment on this board. You must be applying for Obama’s “Cheerleading Czar” position.

This bill is wonderful. The government can do this much better than the insurance companies.Doctors are greedy and need to be controlled.Anybody who questions this approach does not like poor people.

They don’t get it for free. They pay out of pocket expenses for it in most countries to of one kind our another.
Our medical professionals are paid more. They have to pay more for their education too. Our laws are more litigation prone. Lots of reasons really.
If you are talking about us being no where near the top in the WHO rankings, or similar rankings, that is because of the flaws in the calculation used. The flaws are well known, and have been covered in several professional journals. WHO stopped doing the ranking because they don’t have good enough data, The rankings were health systems, which isn’t health care by the way, health systems includes everything, such as safety in automobiles.
All deaths were included, not just health care ones. A single payer was ranked higher because it was considered to be more equally dispersed, without considering if it actually provided for the population better. There were many faults. Look up the journal articles if you wish.
mary >>>> and if our system was truly great why do we spend 3 times as much as other countries and they get healthcare for free Oh yes! We are nowhere to be found in the top 10 in the world when it comes to healthcare, had we been number 1…. I guess they would be no talk of reform now would they.

secondlook…come on now…you are accusing ME of twisting stuff??? Can you give an example? The proposal to exempt taxing union members health care benefits while not exempting non union members? That is straight from the horse’s mouth. You said you’d read Ezekials words last night if i gave you the link. I gave you the link. Did you read his proposals? Did I twist anything about that? Love ya, kid, but if you are gonna accuse me of twisting words, you should give me some examples. If I misspoke or misquoted, I’ll be happy to admit it

nc – To sit here and claim republicans aren’t against healthcare reform is laughable. About all they’ve supported is Bush’s savings accounts which don’t remotely help those that need the help the most. There was some brief discussions on MAYBE the states could help out some people, but nothing really came of that. No I haven’t read the guys words yet. Right now I’m busy hunting down if you guys have been played in about the biggest way possible. The new “if you opt out of Medicare you can’t get SS” rumor. There’s even some proposed bill by a republican. Right now my lawyer friend and I suspect this is one of the biggest hoaxes they’ve pulled on your side yet. So far the only thing supporting this are far right blogs. And, considering many seniors are on insurance thru retirement it’s stupid. Not to mention not everybody even qualifies for Medicare.

secondlook, i don’t have a definite answer about the medicare/SS tie. But I can tell you a real life story about it, even though I am still confused about the whole thing. My mom is 84. She lived on the Gulf Coast of Mississippi and her house was destroyed by Katrina. Since then, her health has gone dramatically downhill, to the point that I have had to move her into an assisted living facility near Atlanta. She is in the Alzheimers’ ward there. During this transition, my brothers and sister and i were going thru what paperwork of her life was left after Katrina. She had failed to sign up for Medicaire when required. We have rectified this, but, for whatever reason, she was indeed penalized in SS payments for having failed to sign up correctly for madicaire. I cannot for the life of me tell you why nor which law makes it so. But I can swear to you the truthfullness of it, because I lived it

nc – I used that as an example of him doing not much of anything. Healthcare was never his baby. For years the republicans have ignored this area in the name of capitalism. That proposal helped people that are better off and didn’t even get to the root of the problem. What’s the name of the Post article? With me it’s more about cutting the spin right now.

nc – What you speak of here? I can see some dumb gov. rule doing that. I was told the other day by a friend that “yeah, she got Cobra and they made it less – only due to the fact she didn’t have it for three months when it was unaffordable she was billed over a grand if she wanted it, to go back on those three months.” This is not the hoax. The hoax is claiming SS bennies will be denied if you don’t wish to be on it.

What is outlandish is the way Obama, the liberals in congress and the liberal media are characterizing hard working American patriots for voicing their opinions about this railroading going on in the house and senate. They need to slow down, and start listening to the people who put them into office. At congress.org every one of their letters show that Americans are ovewhelmingly against their brand of health reform, cap and trade, yet they don’t give a dam* what the people think.

second look, that’s my point exactly: our lawmakers are wanting to pass a bill that no one knows what is in it yet. We got burned by the stimulus bill (Harry Reid’s high speed train to Las Vegas…which cost many many jobs; Nancy Pelosi’ pet projects, ets. Many, i’m sure are GOP backed waste). I don’t want my country burnt again by behind closed doors legislature. They can do things that just don’t make sense …(medicaire and SS tie for instance??) And the “whats the hurry” line? That is the exact phrase that Obama used when the “other side” (bush) was pushing reform….All i’m asking is don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. I have volunteered as a paramedic with a local rescue squad for over 20 years…and i have yet to have had one of my patients refused care due to lack of insurance. As a matter of fact, it is illegal for any public hospital to refuse care to indigent.

nc – What article? Since Medicare isn’t even for everybody this has to be bogus. I read Charle’s piece. It’s McCains. He’s a neo. And BTW, I’m not against a bit of a cap on the lawsuits. I’m not sure I could support taking it out of the court system and putting it into some government bodies hands. Too much potential for abuse. While you guys yell about freedoms being taken away?

Please follow the President’s example.He is the Moses of the 21st century,leading us into the new land of rightousness and hope.He will protect us from the greedy opponents of health care reform.Let Frantz Falon be our guide as a true doctor for our country.

hussein’s “Healthcare Freedom of Choice” for seniors:
“Take either the red pill or the blue pill. With the red pill you die immediately. With the blue pill you die in one day. It’s YOUR choice!”

“second look, that’s my point exactly: our lawmakers are wanting to pass a bill that no one knows what is in it yet.”……… Well give them a NY minute? What is with all of this frenzy here? I don’t recall spazzing during the republican rule. We waited until it was presented, and then made up our minds. I’ve never seen so much wild speculation.

second look…i gotta go. I have enjoyed our chats as usual, though i was a bit surprised at your claim that the article about medicaire and SS is bogus. That is just not like you to make that claim without reading it first. And then the cursary slam against McCain…he’s not even part of the discussion.. Anyway, i’m sure i’ll see you again this evening or tomorrow. After that, i’m back to work…vacation is over and work begins again Monday. Talk to you later

nc – I said I believe it’s bogus. I still think there is something fishy on this. Give me time. Rome wasn’t built in a day. And would you REALLY be surprised to hear they wrote an article while not checking facts? All this article says is “the men say.”

nc – McCain IS a neo.

“There is enough in this bill not to like it now, so why wait until its got more momentum to “spaz”.”…….. First off? YOU do not know this bill since the bill isn’t remotely complete. But I’m open for what is bugging you.

nc – I’ve said it’s more about the bogus spewing from mouths on the right with me. I’m waiting to see what happens on the bill.

I am an Independent. Yesterday I heard Obama speaking in Virginia where he told the crowd that he doesn’t mind cleaning up after the Repubs but he doesn’t want to hear them talk. I would like to suggest that all people interested in the health care reform are Americans, regardless of what the Demos are now saying. If the Demos can’t discuss the health care issues with others, then they do not need to govern.

i’m really really outta here now. *LOL. Being the southern gentleman that I am, I think i’ll cook dinner for my wife tonite. She puts up with a lot of my crap…its the least i can do. Hope y’all have a great night.

secondlook, you blindly believe that Obama’s health care plan will be the do all tell all saving grace for our country and you freely admit that you know that it is not even written yet…but somehow you doubt the veracity of an article in one of the most liberal, left leaning web sites in the US?? Well, have fun debunking it. Like I said, i did have a run in with medicaire/SS with my mom…and now i think i understand where it came from. It’s all taken care of now, but there was some issue there.

It seem obvious that some of the public can still read and check info on certain lines. Has Oboma really read the nearly 1000 page proposal. (I have’t, of course). Doubt that many legislators or aids have read the entire report but they must. We cannot afford another cash for clunkers fiasco, which apparently no one actually thought through. Already, another two BILLION added, and what happens when when those buying new cars, with loans, cannot pay charges. And has anyone actually put the pencil to what all the tax credits will cost the country, for cars, water heaters, ac, windows. Has someone gone completely mad. Cassandra

I hear that the President is taking a well-deserved vacation to Yellowstone before his planned visit to Martha’s Vineyard.I suppose that somebody will object.I can’t think of a better use of time than visiting as much of our country as possible.I like a curious man-unlike our previous president who only saw a vacation as a time to relax.

winz…nothing hipocritical about what I said. I just repeated what the President said yesterday repeatly in Virginia. He doesn’t want to hear the objections of others. Repeated quote “I don’t want to hear them talk”. He is trying to shut down the discussion of his health care proposal.
I just suggested the dialog, in its many forms, is called the American discourse of any political proposal.

The REAL quote: “But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”

Why in the world to people keep saying you can keep your health care? If the Government Offers for Free then why on earth would a company pay for it?? Corporations are looking at the bottom line. If they can drop coverage for you and save money, they will do that. That will force everyone on the broken Govt. system. Think it through.
All other government programs work great; I’m sure their version of heath care will . lol
Also even if you are for this plan why would you want a group of people (congress) decide this for you and not go under they same system?
If it’s such a good thing then make them go under the exact same plan they are proposing.

The REAL quote: “But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”
–> Oooh. He’s gone nuts in public after only six months. Maybe His DNA isn’t really so special.

OBAMA IS A LIER HE IS NOT FIT TO BE IN OFFICE HE HAS VOLATED THE RIGHTS OF ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN OUR COUNTRY THE OBAMA STUPIED EVIL HEALTH CARE LIKE THAT ONE SANATOR SAID THIS OBAMA HEALTH CARE IS NOT FIT FOR A DOG WHY IS OBAMA TRY TOP PUSH IT ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HE WILL DESTROY OUR COUNTRY IMPEACH OBAMA BE FOR IT TO LATE

Jeff,
There is no free healthcare in the reform bill unless you are very poor.
Corporations will not be able to drop insurance for their employees, as all businesses except very small ones will be fined if they don’t provide health insurance.
The government isn’t going to decide which health care you get, you will decide what you buy. But insurance companies will have to be truthful and clear about their policies, provide a good minimum of coverage (I bet they are real happy about that) won’t be able to turn people down for pre-existing conditions (they really don’t like that) and other good stuff for us consumers.
The system we have isn’t working for those who can’t afford the high insurance premiums, it doesn’t work for many who have a catastrophic illness (half of all bankruptcies are because of medical bills, and most of them had insurance!) it doesn’t provide affordable insurance especially for those between the ages of 50 and medicare age and it is getting too expensive for most of the middle-class with premiums jumping up every year and higher deductibles and co-pays.
Inform yourself from reliable sources. And if you hear something silly like euthanasia in the bill, just dismiss that source as being reliable.
There is so much false information about what this bill will and won’t do, it is ridiculous.

Dear Leader Chairman Maobama said “But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”
How soon he forgets the Constitutuion, the President does not initiate appropration (spending) bills, the House does. The bill then goes to the Senate and once both the House and Senate pass the final bill it is passed to the President to be signed or vetoed.
Since 2006 the Democratic party has been in charge of both the House and Senate and have been responsible for all spending since 2006, not the President. I know that Dear Leader Chairman Maobama probably doesn’t know that as he spent his time in the Senate voting Present rather than the customary “Aye” or “Nay”.
The bottom line ids that the Republicans did not make the mess, the Democrats are responsible.

What do Medicare, Medicaid, Amtrak, Social Security, USPS, and Cash 4 Clunkers have in common? They are efficiently run government entities with gracious, service-minded employees. These employees are always willing to go the extra mile for their customers! Just last week, I needed a stamp at 4:58PM on a Friday, and with a warm smile, the USPS employee was willing to hand me a stamp even as the clock struck 4:59PM!!
As President Obama promised while campaigning, we will all have the same exact coverage as members of Congress, and this will not affect the defecit!! For example, Ted Kennedy flew to Durham, NC for treatment after contracting brain cancer. He received first rate care at Duke University. This is why Obama-Care will be the greatest coverage in the world. When Americans are diagnosed with these fatal illnesses, we will be whisked away to the greatest facilities in the US for treatment.
Why do you think the Congress just ordered 3 new private jets with a combined bill of $500,000,000? It could not be for “fact-finding” trips!?! My congressman’s office just told me yesterday, if I get a cold or flu, that I will be picked up on one of these jets and flown to the Cleveland Clinic!!
I love America, Barak Obama, & mediocrity!! This is great, if you feel like slacking, just vote Democrat. We do not need to raise taxes, that is why we have the US Mint. Inflation is overrated!!

This is a bad Bill. Obama puts the American taxpayer in between a woman seeking an Abortion and her Doctor. If She wants to Abort her baby that is her legal perogative but not a responsibility of other Americans. This is just one of the Bad items in this Bill! Obama is Wrong!

“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical….It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.”
—Thomas Jefferson to James Madison (Jan. 30, 1787)

While stupidity and ignorance is a condition of the mind, thus, subject to toleration, hatred, a destruction of the soul, must never to be sanctioned, nor, allowed to prevail.
Though these are my own words, the thought of them could not have been invoked, were it not a re-discovering, of the inspirational words and thoughts of Martin Luther King Jr., and one quote in particular. And that is this;
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man’s sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

I was at one of these healthcare town-hall meetings the other day, once the group of 80-plus-year-old ladies (standing next to me) had become winded from screaming out “no socialized medicine” and could scream no longer, I heard an older Republican gentlemen (his “I hate Nazi’s” sign, gave him away) talking about how his dog, had just crapped in his favorite shoes. This older gentlemen, then, proceeds to tell how he’s sure, that his dog had been planning this crap attack for at least a week. Next, he states that he had been noticing, over the past 5 or 6 days, that his dog had been studying his movements, patterns, and habits, and is absolutely convinces, (just for cover) his dog crapped in his favorite shoes, a day before the dog knew, he was going to wear them.
What’s going on? Surely, most people are not this stupid or paranoid. Fueled by an organized ignorance, the principal factor at play, can only be explained, as a un-American hatred, for the President of these United States.
While stupidity and ignorance is a condition of the mind, thus, subject to toleration, hatred, a destruction of the soul, must never to be sanctioned, nor, allowed to prevail.

An official with the AFL-CIO, a federation of labor organizations, passed on what he described as a “pretty direct threat” to those union hands who were showing up to balance out anti-Obama demonstrations being waged at local Democratic forums.
“I will be going to a local town hall this weekend, all you union members BEWARE!” an emailer wrote at 9:40 Saturday morning. “We will be waiting for you. better make sure you have arrangements with your local ER. today is the day when the goon meets the gun. see you there.”

Union Broths ad Sisters! We progresive also have the right to bear arms! protect yourselves aainst rightist thuggery! Put an end to bullyism, fight back!

Dr. Gregory Garamoni – Your Aug 8, 2009 7:20:15 PM post is 100% correct and couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph. “Earth to politicians: Health care is not a right, doctors are not your slaves, businesses are not your banks, the wealthy are not your wet nurses, and patients are not your pawns.”
The other thing that the idiots in DC need to do is read the constitution and if they have trouble understanding it they need to get someone schooled on the Constitution to explain to them how out of bounds theyr are.

The unions today are not what they used to be. Ask any one who was a member back in the day. Those people faught in wars and were truly being taken advantage of the the company store. This is not your dad’s union.

i went to a local town hall meeting with my union t shirt today.
the patriotic americans out numbed the the anti ameican rabble rousers by at least 3 to 1. their were not incidents.
all the anti american demonstrators were over 70 white male with their tbag t shirts. inside the meeting their were a few anti americans with questions of other types.
all in all the patiriotic americans who support the president, the constitution and health care reform carried the day.

Yeah Right – Sure I get to keep my doctors and my health plan – but I’m also going to have to shell out my hard earned dollars to pay for government health insurance for those who can’t afford it. It’ll be a double whammy. And of course employers will likely push us all into the government healthcare because it will be cheaper for them to do so – thus all the Rich will opt for expensive, but private health insurance. And of course the Dems say the Rich will need to carry the burden, but how often have you seen that? It will be the middle class, as always, that will be paying for it. Geitner is already talking about raising our taxes and putting the burden on the middle class. After Bush, welcome to even-BIGGER government. All hail to Big Brother Obama.

“We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and others. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights.”
ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone — not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.
ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes ..
ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we’re just not interested in public health care.
ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don’t be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don’t be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won’t have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.
ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful. (AMEN!)
ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.
ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don’t care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from! (Lastly….)
ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country’s history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!

It’s the taxes which will have to be drastically raised just to pay the interest on the government debt that is causing the concern. I think that there was some concern when Bush was in office but what he did in eight years Obama is on track to double in less than four years. At the current rate of spending (which has significantly increased under the present administration) our tax revenue will pay for nothing other than the interest on the debt owed by the government. In the first year that the debt was recorded (1789) the debt was $75,463,476.00 and when Barack Obama took office (January 19 2009) it was $10,628,881,485,510.00 and as of today it is $11,218,863,034,278.00. This is an increase of $589,981,548,768.00 since this administration took over and if this rate of spending is continued the debt at the end of one year in office will be approximately $13,578,789,000,000.00 and at the end of four years in office will be approximately $20,658,569,000,000.00. This is debt that the country does not have the money to repay anywhere in the near future. Looking at history James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford Hayes, Chester Arthur, Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, Calvin Coolidge, and Herbert Hoover accomplished the one thing that no administration since 1933 has accomplished and that is to reduce the government debt while in office. All other Presidents have increased the government debt during their term of office. Who had the biggest change you ask? In order of magnitude (percentage of change as over the years the actual numbers have increased so the only fair method is to look at the percentage of change during each administration) they are:
1. Abraham Lincoln (2,959% increase, Civil War years)
2. Martin Van Buren (1,558% increase, Andrew Jackson had reduced the debt by over 99% during his preceding terms)
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt (1,147% increase, WW II)
4. Woodrow Wilson (822% increase)
5. James Polk (395% increase)
6. James Buchanan (315% increase)
7. Ronald Reagan (286% increase)
8. James Madison (216% increase)
9. George W. Bush (185% increase
10. Gerald Ford (147% increase)
This is the top 10 so the next question to answer is where did William Clinton rank among the Presidents who had an increase in the government debt during their time in office? William Clinton had an increase of 136% in office which ranked as number 13 (not a ranking to be proud of). Where would Barack Obama rank if his administration continues the rate of spending we have experienced to date? Barack Obama at the current rate of spending would have an increase of the federal debt to the tune of $194% which would rank him as number 9 on the list of top ten ahead of George W. Bush. This data is all verifiable from the dept of the treasury website, just google government debt and it will lead you to the right area.

Obama you would have to read it first to comprehend it, something I am positive you would have trouble with, you have no plan this is Pelosi’s plan. Why don’t you have an original idea and come up with the White House plan you spoiled frat boy!!!!

What makes any sane person think that the government can manage health care. Look at what the government has done to Social Security, Medicare, Public Housing, and now AIG. With this kind of a track record they have proven that they aren’t even capable of successfully operating the local burger stand. To start with where will the money come from and not cause an increase to the government debt any more than it is? In his first 170 days in office Obama has increased the debt of the government by 901.25 Billion dollars. At this rate he will increase the debt of the Government by 1.82 Trillion dollars in his first year alone and 7.74 Trillion dollars by the end of his 4 year term in office. If he is elected for a second term with the same rate of spending then the government debt will increase by 15.48 Trillion dollars. Since the debt owed by the Government was 10.6 Trillion dollars when he took office an additional 7.74 Trillion will almost double the debt in just 4 years to 18.34 Trillion dollars and at the end of his second term it will have increased to an unthought of 26.08 Trillion dollars. The interest alone on this amount of debt will consume more than half of the entire federal budget. This does not even include what Obama wants to put into healthcare which has been estimated may actually cost upwards of 1.6 Billion dollars by the Congressional Budget Office. This is money that the Government does not have and cannot conceivably have without raising taxes to the point where everyone in the country will be paying a much higher tax rate than they are currently paying. No matter how you want to put it any healthcare reform will require government involvement which will lead to required government spending so the money is an important issue, if it’s not there then healthcare will have to wait until such time as it is available. Obama promised change but this is ridiculous he makes all who came before him look minor on their spending while in office. Time to stop spending and do what should have been done long ago, cut spending which is not specifically authorized in article 1 of the constitution. There is NO money for healthcare, there is NO money for education reform or any other dreams in the upcoming budget. Look at what the government has done to Social Security, Medicare, Public Housing, Chrysler, GM, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Obama needs to start listening to the people and stop pushing his agenda on a populace that doesn’t want it. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS HEALTHCARE PLAN. Go back to the drawing board and consider options that do not include a government run plan, tax hikes, and unfair gov’t intrusion into citizens’ medical rights.

No logic has ever been defied, however, much has been denied.
The very idea, that the majority of the 97% of all Americans, who would not be affected by an increase of taxes on the top 3% of America’s highest income earners, would object that the very rich should pay for healthcare reform, denies all logic.
Remember the “me generation”, welcome to the “ether generation”, how much longer til the gas wears off?
Unless you’re among the 3% of highest American income earners, or have nothing positive to add, Sit-down, Shut-up, and be quiet.
How do ya like me now?

jmb,
You pay for it if you want but I’ll tell the government to keep their hands off my stash and that’s my constitutional right to do so.
You seem to think it was ok for Liberal Groups to interrupt conservative town halls when Bush was President but it’s not ok for conservatives to turn the tables on the Liberal Pols.

I’m an ordinary American who supports what President Obama and the Democrats are tying to do. And I think the screeching, bullying people showing up to disrupt and destory these town halls are a disgrace.
Calling the Democrats nazis, saying they are trying to destroy the constitution, or that they want to kill grandparents is just lies and scare tactics.
The latest polls show that President Obama has lost some support amongst poorer, less educated whites. It makes sense this kind of nonsense would appeal to the gullible. They are susceptible to repeated lies on right wing sensationalist media.
I’m looking forward to seeing information on the various agreements and compromises being worked out.
And I’m not looking forward to any more nonsense from the Republican right wing, or people pretending to be ‘moderates’.

@tasha – Not everything is about race! This IS about health care! Liberals seem to forget how they have demonstrated in the past, burning the American flag, being mobs of angry unruly and boisterous citizens. Now the show is on the other foot, and the liberals think it’s outrageous. Such convenient memories! Millions of Americans do NOT want government health care forced upon them, and the only way to get this thick-headed congress to hear them is to speak out and continue speaking out until the idiots listen.

Explain to me how the same government that says a woman has the legal right to an abortion, can say that we do not have the right to health care without government interference and control.

The only thing the present health care system has is “it’s the devil that you know.” But it stinks. It is hugely expensive, makes us collude with our doctors to get the care we need, makes everyone sweat to make sure they get basic coverage, makes huge headaches for people changing jobs or with pre-existing conditions, is crushing businesses and taxpayers, is squeezing out good doctors and pharmacies, and flat-out doesn’t even cover 50 million people. It will take time to work out the kinks but don’t worry — health care reform will be a huge improvement!

People look at the increased cost of health care but ignore the increased benefit. If the mortality rate today were the same as it was in 1960, 500,000 *more* Americans would die each year. It is those lives that the increased price of health care has bought us. People talk about wanting 1960s health care prices. What they really mean is that they want 1960s prices but 2009 quality.

There is so much information about what this bill will and won’t do, it is ridiculous. winz >>>>> Yes and to be honest you have a lot of wishful thinking. Doesnt Massachusetts and Tennessee have health care in deep trouble. And how about California? Since people cant tell what the outcome will be why not test ideas in states willing to try. winz you can move where ever the test is so you can be the guinea pig for everyone else. For 80% who have health care they like, leave us out of this until you experiment on others have proof that your ideas work.
So far the only thing the government plan will do is increase cost and mess up everyones current insurance. Thats all it does. It doesnt cover anyone as the CBO. It doesnt reduce cost as the CBO.

If the mortality rate today were the same as it was in 1960, 500,000 *more* Americans would die each year. It is those lives that the increased price of health care has bought us. People talk about wanting 1960s health care prices. What they really mean is that they want 1960s prices but 2009 quality.
anonymoususerguy >>>>> Well cost could be reduced but HR3200 doesnt reduce cost it increases it.

Well, perhaps the president will explain to the American people what HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN CONTAINS; WHAT IT DOESN’T CONTAIN; AND WHY CERTAIN ELEMENTS ARE NOT CONTAINED!!
* WHAT IS IMAC? WHAT WILL IT DO, AND WHAT WILL IT NOT DO? WHO WILL SERVE ON IT, AND WHO WILL DO THE SELECTION OF THOSE WHO SERVE?
* HOW WILL THEY PROVIDE THE HEALTH CARE DELIVERY SYSTEM WITH AN EXISTING NURSE SHORTAGE AND A GROWING DOCTOR SHORTAGE — MORE TO COME IF THEY HAVE TO BREAK THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH? (Please do not use AMA and AARP as being for the program, for they do not represent the vast majority of doctors, and after this past week, the AARP is going to represent many fewer seniors!)
*HOW WILL THE ADMINISTRATION’S PLAN CHANGE MEDICARE — GIVE SPECIFICS — NOT GENERALITIES?
*WHY IS THE ADMINISTRATION SO STRIDENTLY AGAINST TORT REFORM — WHICH WOULD SAVE BILLIONS FROM BOGUS LAW SUITS?
*WHY IS THERE NOT LANGUAGE TO GO AFTER MEDICAID AND MEDICARE FRAUD — WHICH AGAIN WOULD SAVE BILLIONS?
*WHAT MAKES UP THE 47 MILLION ‘WITHOUT INSURANCE’ THAT THE ADMINISTRATION CONTINUES TO TOUT? WHAT ARE THE DEMOGRAPHIC BREAKOUTS — INCLUDING ILLEGALS?
*WHY IS THERE NOT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE IN THE BILLS ON TARGETING MONEY TOWARDS CURES FOR DISEASES: DIABETES; VARIOUS CANCERS; AUTISM; MS; HEART DISEASE; SPINAL CORD INJURIES; AND VARIOUS DISEASES ASSOCIATED WITH AGING?
He turned this bill writing over to his left wing, and he now has a DOG’S BREAKFAST! It is his own fault, but only he can extricate himself from it. He best get busy!!

“Multiple videos show that the bullying is being done by pro-Obama supporters.”…… Yeah, right. Perhaps they’re reacting to your new thing of bussing in people not living in the area to disrupt Town Halls, but it’s easy to see who the people yelling are.

PappyHappy >>> You are completely correct. The current bill is not about fixing anything. They give you the straw man argument. If it doesnt contain X then its not reform. I say BUNK. Lets go slow and make a good system we have had for decades better cheaper and all grow as a nation. We dont need a new system we need to fix the old one. We need to make it beyond reproach and even more world class.
Instead of giving your data to internet why not place it on two USB drives that you carry with you at all times.
This way you have your medical record in your pocket. Mandate a common record data format designed by some of the great hospitals in the USA. Mandate all insurance companies must accept this format. That would help doctors by reducing their record keeping. It would help the patient by allowing them to have their record with them and reduce costs for the doctor. WOW.. things can get better if that was the goal of the congress and Obama.

In a couple of years, some member
of congress will take pity on
some poor soul using the public
option that will cost too much
and pass a bill to lower the cost.
This will kill private insurance
and usher in the single payer
system Obama, Frank and Dodd want.
To lower cost the govt will dictate
fees to hospitals, doctors, drug
companies resulting to doctors
hospitals going under, drug companies
cutting research, and less care
available. Congress can’t pass up
and opportunity to buy votes.

If you have insurance that is.Skip
>>> And if you dont Skip you still might not have insurance. The CBO states that as many as 30 million will still not be insured under this plan.

“Perhaps they’re reacting to your new thing of bussing in people not living in the area to disrupt Town Halls, but it’s easy to see who the people yelling are.”
Cite your proof.
But let’s say they WERE organized. Who cares? Don’t you lefties support protests by ACORN, Code Pink, Answer, and MoveOn? Obama always touts the importance of community organizing, so let people organize! Obama should welcome it!
Or is it that free speech only belongs to the left? Wow, are you going to be in for a shock in the coming weeks.

Congress should force insurers to not drop people, force them to take anyone. The govt should encourage a coordinated claim system common to all insurers to reduce admin costs and pass the savings along. States already govern premiums of insurers. Would the public option be governed by the states or would the Fed control it? That would be a savings for the public option that the private insurers would not have. An unfair competition. The Flexible Savings Acct would be cut according to the house bill which results in a tax increase for all, since those funds are tax deffered. Allow insurers to compete across state lines. Each state has regulations for insurers that can differ from the Fed regulations. Streamline those regulations to reduce costs among insurers. Instead of competing with the insurers, the govt should help them reduce costs. Reduce the 10 years it takes to get a drug approved. Drugs are often introduced overseas. These are the steps that should be tried instead of the grandiose scheme the Dems propose. The people are really mad that the Congress is not listening. They should n’t mistake the anti-Bush vote in November for a mandate to do anything they want.

You only have to read the thousands of horror stories every year about private health insurance companies screwing their policy holders to understand how Federally run universal health care could hardly be worse. BTW, it’s mightly curious how most of these “protesters” appear to be Medicare age. Do they express their disgust over “socialized Medicine” by paying their own medical bills instead of getting that nasty Federal government to pay them?

How can our congressmen refuse to see us the voting public and have closed door town halls. Calling these invitation only meetings, town hall meeting is dishonest.
ITs a meeting of the GOOD OLE boys clubs.
Thats what the democrats are all about.
THESE CHICKENS NEED to GO.

Lets face it nothing Obama has said has been truthful since he got elected. He always promised transparency in government, five days reading laws before voting, and no taxes affecting anyone under $250k. So far all wrong. Obama says his health plan will cost nothing and not hurt us. Obama gives massive numbers of people that are not covered by doctors. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) tells us it will cost us a massive amount, and today anyone in the USA can walk into an emergency room and receive care.

The Obama administration does not agree with all of the CBO’s estimates. Skip >>> Obama doesnt agree because he doesnt like the numbers. I would say the cost estimates are WAY WAY LOW and that would increase the individual outlay and cost to the country by a LOT. Skip they are not trying to FIX whats wrong. What is wrong with that idea? Or is that too easy?

Jeff G >>> I agree. WORST PRESIDENT in history. I mean dead last. His actions have been knee jerk and poor.

“You only have to read the thousands of horror stories every year about private health insurance companies screwing their policy holders to understand how Federally run universal health care could hardly be worse.”
There are thousands and thousands of Medicare and Medicaid horror stories. And the fraud in those programs is legendary. They also both have TRILLIONS of dollars in unfunded mandates. If those programs were run by public companies, they would have been bankrupt many years ago.

There are 46 million people out there right now with no insurance.Many are dying way before their time because the richest country in the world has failed them.This new system will require that all pay to get insurance and not just require those of us to pay for all of them. Insurance rates will not be able to be paid for if we continue with the current plan. We all will are insurance if nothing is done now!

No thank you to the plan! If drug companies are paying for the plan, it is already screwed up. Pharmaceuticals are a racket. People of American Unite against this plan. This is a money grab by our politicians. This is crazy. I do believe we need some kind of reform. However, I am absolutely against tax payers paying for abortions. I am absolutely against any form of socialism which is where the President and his clowns up in Washington wants us to go. My mom and in laws use medicare. They want to cut from the very people who helped lay an amazing foundation for our country. THIS IS WRONG WASHINGTON! Again, another sign of socialism. Folks, come on. We are being treated as if we are stupid. We see the signs on the wall. Hey here is an idea, why don’t each of you call someone in Canada who has come to America for medical treatment and find out why they came to america. Why don’t each of you speak with the Parliament in the EU and find out how great their health care is. America please see the truth of this situation. The people in Washington have forgotten who they work for. We have a right to take their job. They work for us. Not the other way around. They should be losing sleep not us. Come on Americans. We are smarter than this.

“There are 46 million people out there right now with no insurance.Many are dying way before their time because the richest country in the world has failed them.”
That’s an overblown bogus figure. 10 to 15 million of the uninsured are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. If you’re so worried about Americans dying due to lack of insurance, promote getting these illegal immigrants deported. Or do you just plan to give them free insurance?

Read “Culture of Corruption” by Michelle Malkin and then name anyone in the Obama administration, President, Cabinet Member or Czar, with a track record that deserves your trust.

Those who buy into the hateful right wing propoganda should think, that Obama is smart enough to understand that he would lose the next elections, if he does a bad job and mess up the health care for the poeple. He understands people would reject him if he is not able to deliver a good health care for the people, and if he is not able to genearte milloins of good paying employment.
I think his cash for clunker is generating business for the auto industry and will create good paying employment.
Cash for clunker has been a success for europeans too.
Obama must expedite employment generation.
He should start programs similar to cash for clunker to create good paying employment.
I think the right appraoch is to feed the directly horse where the mouth is, isntead of givning stimulus money to banks and companies.
These banks and companies after taking the stumulus money are giving out employment & contracts to overseas (China and India) to cut the cost.
Obama should initiate incentives like paying half the salary if these companies retain employment until recovery, and do not lay off.
Europeans are doing the same succesuflly.
Also, he should incentivize these companies with tax breaks for every employment they create and retain for at least one year.
Obama had promised to take away the tax credit that was given by Bush to the outsourcing companies for outsourcing.
I have not heard anything, though he once said that he would take it back.

“Jenny Sanford,” I too am an ordinary American, and I oppose what Obama and the Democrats are trying to do the the American health care system. I agree that the shouting and bullying at town hall meetings, BY PEOPLE ON ALL SIDES OF THIS ISSUE, is wrong and counterproductive and disgraceful. Calling those who disagree with the president on such matters as the public option racists and right wingers is equally uncalled for. Telling people that if the Democrats’ proposal does not pass soon, none of our health insurance is secure and that unless we reform health care the president’s way, we cannot repair our economy (things the president has said in recent days)is also using scare tactics.
I agree that we need an intelligent discussion of this important issue. The shouting should give way to talking openly and calmly. But much of the shouting is caused by deep-seated concerns that we who disagree with the Democratic plans are being disregarded in a rush to push through a bill that does not serve our best interests, just as the stimulus bill was passed over the objections of much of the public.
I’m not pretending to be a moderate; I am a moderate. I support sensible health care insurance reform— I want to see a plan that: improves access to quality insurance for those who have trouble paying for it, through government subsidies or tax credits or something; includes serious malpractice/tort reform so that we can dramatically reduce the needless defensive doctoring practices that help keep costs high; provides for insurance portability and large pools for high risk individuals and small businesses; reforms in the coverage of preexisting conditions; expansion of Health Savings Accounts (with the government perhaps contributing to the HSAs of lower income individuals). I am opposed to a public option.
I am tired of people on both sides demonizing individuals and groups with whom they disagree and personalizing their attacks. It is not JUST the “poor and uneducated” with whom the president is losing support over health care reform. I hold a PhD, my family is filled with members holding advanced degrees, and we all disagree with the president on this issue. We are not among the gullible. It is not nice to make patronizing assumptions about those who disagree with you. I do not assume that those who support universal health care, for example, are uneducated rubes, even though I completely disagree with their opinions on such things as the comparison of the American and Canadian system.
I am anxious to see the Senate Gang of Six come out with a plan, which is the closest thing to a bipartisan effort I have seen.
PS Just curious– is your name a tribute to or take off of Gov. Sanford’s wife’s name? I wasn’t sure, since you spell it differently. Seems odd, if so.

msgijoe…your kids “deserve” whatever YOU provide them with including the type of insurance coverage you provide them. They DON’T “deserve” to have their insurance supplemented by me!

Brian, just a curious question: Where would our country get the money to do even one tenth of the things you propose? Pay half the salaries…..??? Heck, we can’t even afford to do what Obama is proposing NOT. Geithner has just announced that he is going to try to get congress to increase the legally established debt load of the US, just to cover the give away crap that the administration has already heaped upon us…..Do you have any idea that the US does NOT have that kind of money and that it really really has to be paid back some day?

It is strange that Obama never addresses the causes for high medical care costs. I have been looking at many studies and it turns out the government is the main culprit. They have made an utter mess of things with MEDICARE payment strategies and encouraged high costs and incredible hospital overhead costs.. 10% of medical care cost is due to malpractice awards and Obama refuses to address this problem. Then the FDA has caused drug companies to spend Billions in paperwork and excessive testing all of which is passed on to medicine purchasers. Results: The government is the cause of most of the problem so who in their right mind would want it in charge of anything. Obama is just completely wrong.

you know, average american, I was supporting the president when he was “throwing” 1 trillion dollars at Iraq. As was most of America. You can try to rewrite history if you wish, but until Michael Moore told you guys to stop supporting the war efforts, you were too. Bush did not ever have the power to go to war by himself. He had the support and okay of 95% of congress. So that is where I was. And congress continued funding that war. And as far as giving away millions of dollars to drug companies? Show me some facts about that, will you? Which companies, and how much? See, you are merely parroting the Lib’s talking points and it makes you look foolish. When the campaign was going on and gas prices were high, your flavor of the day was “Bush was throwing millions of dollars at BIG OIL”. Now, it’s the same tired song, but big oil replaced by big pharma companies and insurance companies. Can’t you think of anything original? How about this. Take a look at campaign contributions from the insurance and pharm companies. I don’t think you’ll like what you see. They gave a lot more money to the DNC than to the GOP

Because the education system is a failure.
We spend more on education then any other country and fail miserably at educating them.
Why fix that when we can fix health care instead.
Do you really think they want to blame the public school system, the unions, the government for its failure.
“An interesting component of the PISA data is the analysis of school spending in relation to performance. Educational spending does have an affect on performance, though it only accounts for 20 percent of the variability between countries, Schleicher explained. The United States spends the most per student on education, but performs worse than many countries that spend significantly less, including Finland and Korea.”
Skip spoke thus:
“…our public educational system, which is of course a form of socialism, is CLEARLY FAILING us.”
Then why do you guys always fight more funding for public education? If you think public education is expensive what do you think nationwide private education would cost?

I wish it were true that what President Obama wants is a done deal. That is not true. Our President has to wait for agreement by Congress and the Senate. What he has to deal with is a republican Party of No who during the last administration could say only Yes, and the Democrats who are more worried about re-election than what is good for the country. Someone actually wrote our newspaper saying he paid $1470.00 a month for health insurance, but he sure did not want any improvement in that rate or for anyone else. What is rediculous is that most people could not begin to pay that for health insurance. America does need health care reform and it will happen because we have a Democratic administration. Republicans know that all they have to do is lie a lot and their base will lap it up like dogs. Right now I believe there are more sensible people in America. The republican base is now the extreme right wing people who listen to and believe all the lies opposing our government and believe them without question.

“The United States spends the most per student on education, but performs worse than many countries that spend significantly less”
And yet when the same point is made regarding healthcare instead of education opponents attack the data.

skip, why do you say we always fight funding for education. It’s not as simple as that. I can’t speak for other states, but let me tell you what just happened here in NC. In Charlotte. Our city government okayed several MILLION dollars to construch a tunned underneat a street that divides an old art museum from the new one. This airconditioned tunnel is to serve the sole, one time purpose of transporting artwork from the old museum to the new. Now that money was given to the museum at the expense of the Charlotte Mecklenburgh School systems. The laid of many teachers. This during the recession. NOW, they have used education funding as an excuse to raise taxes in NC. I think that a wiser move would have been to put off the tunnel, keep the art in the old (functional) museum at least until the economy turns around. It is little things like this that makes it look like fight funding for education. Spend our money on education….IF any is left over, give it to the artsy crowd. Better yet, let the arts and sports be self supporting

“This isn’t a rich school district, it is in rural Illinois, and private school costs less.”
That is an exception instead of the rule is it not? It sounds like you have a very reasonably priced private school near you.

Sandy, actually, I think we need to make our feelings known well before a final bill emerges. I am enough of an idealist and optimist to hope that there are members of Congress who will listen and help shape a compromise bill that actually addresses the concerns and wishes of the American people. If they continue to think, for example, that a public option will be supported by the public, they will continue to include it in their bills. Only by making clear to our elected representatives that we want them to vote against any measure that contains a public option do we have a chance to get that removed from the final bill that emerges from the battle between different groups of Democrats (because, let’s face it, they are not really listening to their Republican coounterparts much, now are they?)

“Why is he pushing this”? You need to
understand how revolutions work. Shock
and awe disrupts your ability to
assess facts at a rational “pace”.
Your Mom told you to never make im-
portant decisions in haste. Obama
wants to be your mama and whip you
up to reject the “old” notions.
Speed is the key to keeping you
unbalanced, and therefore more vul-
nerable to the new dogma. Anyone
who tries this is NOT your friend
and should NOT be trusted.

When we the citizens of the United States become fed up with the garbage, money and spending that comes out of Washington, no matter Democrate or Republican or independent, we then can take charge again by vote from the ground up to make even Obama, Palosi, Congress and his Czars listen and began to do what the people an country want and need. Some rumblings are happening now.Remember 2010 and 2012 are coming, we surley might come to our senses by that time or be taken over.

I just watched a Repub commercial claiming health care reform would gut take billions from medicare and effectively kill senior citizens. I’ve read all four prelilminary bills. NONE OF THIS IS TRUE. The AMA actually endorsed the House Ways and Means draft.
Do you think doctors would be part of something sinister, like killing grandma? Repubs risk reaping the bitter whirlind of lies, deceit, and political thuggery.

I just watched a Repub commercial claiming health care reform would gut take billions from medicare and effectively kill senior citizens. I’ve read all four prelilminary bills. NONE OF THIS IS TRUE. The AMA actually endorsed the House Ways and Means draft.
Do you think doctors would be part of something sinister, like killing grandma? Repubs risk reaping the bitter whirlind of lies, deceit, and political thuggery. Posted by: Fed Up | Aug 8, 2009 11:24:59 PM========================== News flash…..the AMA only represents about 20% of our nations doctors, therefore I would suggest you try again. Also, they stated in their letter that they recognized it because they are under the impression it met or WOULD Meet the bullet points in their letter.
I would suggest you pull up the letter they sent and read it CAREFULLY not just listen to the sound bites the media has given you.
As well, if you paid attention to CSPAN and listen ALL congresionall leaders speak, it does in fact CUT INTO MEDICARE…pay attention sheeple!

Skip
“You might be right, but at least we’re having fun and are home staying out of trouble.”
Hey, I can’t argue with that! :)

Our law makers work for the government, they can choose from a variety of plans offered by their employer. The plans are private plans offered through their employer and they and their employer pay for them.
That is what we have now. They do get some extra perks, but we won’t be getting those. The new bill will add some things, but it will take away some. It will not be equal the federal employees plan nor have close to the selection they have.
If you want to equal the playing field, you need a job with the federal government. Thats the way it works when they write the laws.
sandy said:
Sorry, I am a strong supporter of a public option. I see no other way to level the playing field. Our lawmakers health insurance is publicly funded – why can’t the American people have the same choice?

KMDay: Yes, there will be cuts in Medicare by eliminating unnecessary procedures and hospital readmissions, among other things, but no cuts to needed benefits.I also suggest you stop yelling – we all have good eyesight!
Posted by: sandy | Aug 8, 2009 11:39:09 PM
======================================= Capitalizing a few words out of all I typed is not yelling-find something else to pick apart. The fact is, as you just said there will be cuts. The unnecessaries you are referring to, who decides what is and is not necessary? Obama and those he cherry picked?
I read in the bill as it reads today that the panel will consist of I believe 8 that are not goverment employees, 8 that are and the surgeon general. Now, I may be off on the 8 part the number may be a tad more for each side but you get my point.
We already know who Obama will have a say on those from the government but who determines the panel from those not within the government, Obama and Rahm?
Seriously?

Eliminating unnecessary procedures.
Can you explain that to me, how the bill does this?
The same for hospital readmissions.
I will add though, that the medical field believes there will be rationing, nor will I deny there is now. Rather I will point out that it will be the government doing the rationing, and there lies the problem since they also will do the regulation.
There lies the problem.
Are you aware of the Supreme Court decision that this came from? It was a decision written by Justice Souter. The decision was written after 1992, when he seemed to switch sides has consistently sided with the liberal side of the court by most accounts, until his recent retirement was considered the leading liberal on the court.
Please point me to some strong evidence that your view is correct, since there is plenty of strong evidence, in medical journals, bioethics reports, and legal cases to show that no matter what the politicians tell us, reality is different.
Like other risk bearing organizations, HMOs take steps to control costs. [Among these] are specific financial incentives to physicians, rewarding them for decreasing utilization of healthcare services, and penalizing them for excessive treatment. Hence, an HMO physician’s financial interest lies in providing less care, not more….[I]nducement to ration care is the very point of any HMO scheme [emphasis DrRich's] and rationing necessarily raises some risks while reducing others…Congress, which promoted the formation of HMOs for 27 years, may choose to restrict its approval to certain preferred forms, but the Judiciary would be acting contrary to congressional policy if it were to entertain an ERISA fiduciary claim portending wholesale attacks on existing HMOs solely because of their structure.
- in Pegram et al. v. Herdrich (98-1949), 530 U.S. 211 (2000)
sandy: Yes, there will be cuts in Medicare by eliminating unnecessary procedures and hospital readmissions, among other things, but no cuts to needed benefits.

KM Day- If you transfer funds from Medicare accounts to other programs providing equivalent or better care to seniors, you do not kill grandma. You just provide a false argument to those who would propogate a half-truth to scare old people for your own personal gain. Exactly, the argument I was making. Also, if, as you say, only 20% of docs approve of the House Ways and Means bill, are saying 80% are heartless to seniors? Finally, I don’t know what a “sheeple” is. However, I do know what a mob of Limbaugh Lemmings looks like. I just them at a health care reform town hall.
Posted by: Fed Up | Aug 8, 2009 11:47:36 PM
========================================
1. I do not listen to Limbaugh, so get over it. That is like me saying your leg tingles everytime you listen to Chris Matthews and Olberman-who by the way are the lefts equivelant to Limbaugh.
2. The key word is “if” you transfer the money-which they are not. They are cutting in fact a lot of money from medicare and not stating, in anyway-shape-or-form where they will make up for this.
3. Obama has publicly spoken about how the elderly should be dealt with, therefore I do not understand why you keep saying he will not deny seniors care when he has already stated he would. Give me a bit to find the clip an I will post it on here
4. I do not use scare tactics because if you pay attention, what I post on here normally are the actual pieces from the bill as it reads today.

Okay…..let us take this portion of this bill as it reads today.
Begining on pg 167, if you do not have a health care plan that the government approves on, they will tax you 2.5% of your GROSS INCOME or if you do not have health care or their approved health care for a portion of the year they will tax you more as well:
Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLEHEALTH CARE COVERAGE.‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘‘(2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES.—
The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as—‘‘(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to‘‘(B) the entire taxable year

They don’t have to be US citizens, or even LPR do they? So basically we import them. I have to wonder sometimes how much of our education dollar goes towards educating those that rely on the US education system most, us.
Some of these exist now, not as many, not as much but some anyhow.
KMDay said:
HOw about this portion of the bill as it reads today?
American Tax Payers, if the bill passes as is, will shell out Billions of their tax Dollars so that Hospitals and Doctor’s Offices will be MORE Inclinded to HIRE, RETAIN and EDUCATE Minorities-Who cares about who is most qualified for the position, it is all about skin color. This in turn means that our hard earned money is taken from you and given to to another based soley on the color of their skin, not on their ability to perform the job at hand with expertise and/or experience!
On page 881-882 the bill states:
to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: . . . Training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds.”
On page 884-885 the bill states:
“In awarding grants and contracts . . . the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of training . . . individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds . . . .”
On page 889-890 the bill states:
“In awarding grants or contracts under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: . . . Training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds.”
On page 908-909 the bill states:
“The Secretary shall award grants and contracts to eligible entities” to do the same things for the field of public health as the Secretary can do for dentistry.
On page 909 the bill states:
“In awarding grants or contracts under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: . . . Training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds.”

They don’t have to be US citizens, or even LPR do they? So basically we import them. I have to wonder sometimes how much of our education dollar goes towards educating those that rely on the US education system most, us.
Some of these exist now, not as many, not as much but some anyhow.
Posted by: winz | Aug 9, 2009 12:32:10 AM
You know, I just want someone operating on me, giving me medical advice and prescribing medicine for me and my children who is qualified and highly educated in the field of medicine-period. I do not care what color he/she is, I do not care if they are gay, straight, short, fat, old or young—I want someone who got into medical school because they were qualified or hired becuase they were the most qualified not becuase they jumped ahead of others more qualified simply by the color of their skin!

Nor was I saying I cared, I was pointing out another flaw in the program.
Now as a young promising student ready to choose a field to enter into in College, do you not think that the competition in that field might make a difference? It does.
There are plenty of young, promising, people in the US that would I’m sure be great in the medical profession, they should have reason to expect that they get that chance before someone from another country of a difference skin color or the same, all else being equal.
However, the programs that apply to the color of skin, lets call them affirmative-action programs, are often open to those of that skin color whether they live in the US or not.
So, since presumably these are based on the color of the skin because of some missing opportunity, those people that miss the opportunity have to compete with those who are often rather well off from another country.
In any case, such programs are made worse by the reality that the success of the program is based on statistics for the whole population, whether the whole population is eligible or not, or capable or not.
KMDay said:
You know, I just want someone operating on me, giving me medical advice and prescribing medicine for me and my children who is qualified and highly educated in the field of medicine-period. I do not care what color he/she is, I do not care if they are gay, straight, short, fat, old or young—I want someone who got into medical school because they were qualified or hired becuase they were the most qualified not becuase they jumped ahead of others more qualified simply by the color of their skin!

and not just the minority part, I put up the taxing citizens who do not have insurance the government approves of or the portion that reads that at Y5, the insurance we have MUST be on the governments approved list or we will be fined. Meaning, you get to keep the insurance you have now until Y5 and if it is not on their list, you must get an approved insurance plan or risk increased taxes.
They never answer me when I put it on here….I absolutly love it!

No, people just tend to hear about the high cost ones, so it scares them away from looking. There are scholarships available to that help.
Private schools are often considerably less then public schools cost across funding levels, the cost of a good private school can often be half the cost of a public school.
winz said:
“This isn’t a rich school district, it is in rural Illinois, and private school costs less.”
Skip asked:
That is an exception instead of the rule is it not? It sounds like you have a very reasonably priced private school near you.

Mr. Obama is kind enough to refer to these statements as ‘misleading’ or ‘outlandish’. Anytime you’re told half truths it’s a lie. We trust someone until we catch them in a lie. Rather than try to truly solve our problems politicians lie if it may get them your vote. Wake up America. Health care costs are skyrocketing. Haven’t you heard those GM employees screaming bloody murder because they have to pay $10 for a prescription? For the rest of us every year our health care premiums eat up our raises. Our employers eat some of it but require us to help. The last time premiums dropped was when Hillary pushed this. Want proof? Look at your old pay stubs, that is if you didn’t work for GM. Are GM employees more deserving of health care than non-GM employees? Are employees more deserving than the unemployed? If you’ve had any illness our insurance companies can deny us coverage. If you forget to dot every ‘i’ or cross every ‘t’ our insurers would just as soon deny payment. We have been warned about this problem for many years. If we do nothing the CBO tells us that for every $2 we earn in 2050 health care will eat $1. Are you wanting to dump all of this on your grandchildren? Wake up people.

“Do you truly believe America has the best of health care? If so, then why are we behind all of the other major countries in life expectancy and infant mortality rates?”
Please stop citing statistics like this. People make choices in their lives, even bad ones. My father who is 69 years old has been the doctor maybe 15 times in his entire life. Hes a tough old contruction worker and just hates going to the doctor. Do those statistics exclued these people? Does it exclude women who do drugs and drink while pregnant?
Not to mention most of those statistics are comparisons between a nation with 50 million people and ours which is over 300 million.
Have you ever had government care? I was in the military 13 years, and on several occasions i went outside to a private doctor for diagnostics the government refused to give me. How about VA hospitals? Are they examples of fantastic government care?
I know, its government insurance you will say. You think those doctors will be motivated to make you happy or make the government happy once the big G is paying the bills? Hmm?

“Private schools are often considerably less then public schools cost across funding levels, the cost of a good private school can often be half the cost of a public school.” -winz
Are you quoting Mackinac when you say half? My friends who teach in the public school systems like to point out that most private schools don’t summarily cover the cost of all the large extracurricular sports and other programs and activities that public schools do. There is plenty of debate about what it really costs per student like anything else that can be complicated to calculate.

“If the bill passes we will be dumping the costs of this on future generations.”
Yes but the very same CBO says that not doing anything will be dumping huge costs on future generations in a different way.

The cost dumping will be bigger if the bill passes, the different way is a larger quanity.
We need to get past the idea that our health care quality is going to stay anywhere near the same and our health care costs lower. In order to do that we would fundamentally have to change our society, and even if we could it is doubtful it would work.
Skip posted:
“If the bill passes we will be dumping the costs of this on future generations.”
Yes but the very same CBO says that not doing anything will be dumping huge costs on future generations in a different way.

winz is right. American life expectancy is lower than other nations largely because of the higher rate of death by violence and death by accident here. Very regrettable, but not something that will change a great deal based on upending our health care system. I have posted numerous times about infant mortality rates– we count more live births because we try to save extremely low birth rate babies, leading to more births followed quickly by deaths that would not “count” in other developed countries.
As winz says, our health care system is the envy of the world, in terms of quality, innovation, etc. What we need to focus on is increasing access to that health care (without a public option) and reducing costs. Let’s hear it for large risk pools, portability of coverage, and tort reform.

The one thing government could do is promote some private programs that can provide access at lower costs.
Big-box stores have basic health clinics in some metropolitan areas. These aren’t for complicated care but can provide cost effective, basic care.
Teach healthier life styles across the board, promote health as an important part of life and society. If something is bad for society and it is taxed to discourage, then put the tax money into getting people away from that activity, for example smoking cessation programs.
There are things that the private sector is already working on that can lead to better care.
Medical records that patients can access on their pda and doctors can have access as needed. Tehcnology that can read the veins in a palm to identify the patient and access their records without human error of getting the wrong record.
There is one topic that has been glaringly missing from this discussion. Our birth rate has been on a steady decline as it has also in Europe. Fewer people = fewer income tax dollars flowing in to pay for the huge debts Obama want to saddle us with. Not only that, but is a good bet that 25-50 percent of future generation Americans will be paying little or no income tax whatsoever. Unfortunately, that is a non – topic which reflects on the break up the two parent home.
Posted by: Manitu

Anyone who thinks government-run health care is a good thing needs to read what Rahm Emanuel’s brother thinks about providing health care to the elderly.

From FactCheck:
Obama promised that a health care overhaul “will be paid for.” But congressional budget experts say the bills they’ve seen so far would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit over the next decade.
He said the plan “that I put forward” would cover at least 97 percent of all Americans. Actually, the plan he campaigned on would cover far less than that, and only one of the bills now being considered in Congress would do that.
He said the “average American family is paying thousands” as part of their premiums to cover uncompensated care for the uninsured, implying that expanded coverage will slash insurance costs. But the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation puts the cost per family figure at $200.
Obama claimed his budget “reduced federal spending over the next 10 years by $2.2 trillion” compared with where it was headed before. Not true. Even figures from his own budget experts don’t support that. The Congressional Budget Office projects a $2.7 trillion increase, not a $2.2 trillion cut.
The president said that the United States spends $6,000 more on average than other countries on health care. Actually, U.S. per capita spending is about $2,500 more than the next highest-spending country.

Is this “outlandish” or “misleading?”
Obama: “I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we’ve got a much more portable system.”