Obama: Health Care Reform Critics Are ‘Inventing Bogeymen’

Not at all. Not once. Not ever. What we need in this country is control not upheaval with government restructuring. Just as government is doing with the financial industry can be accomplished with the health care industry. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Just so you can throw Momma down and make another baby.

It’s Obama who is creating the “boogeyman”. Do you really believe that there is a huge ring of doctors out there who are improperly treating diabetes so they can lop off peoples limbs for big bucks? Obama does, that’s where he says we’re going to get a lot of the money to pay for his “plan”. His comments demonize the very people we need to be able to trust in healthcare under any cicumstances. His elitist attitude is offensive and demeaning. And his “plan” IS to have government take over all of healthcare. He clearly expressed this on the campaign trail.

I don’t know—-seems to me it’s the president who is trying to scare everyone into supporting and rushing this thing before any more rogue doctors are allowed to rip out the tonsils of small chilren and cut off the feet of diabetics.

As you can person enrolled in Medicare will be forced to have this ‘end of life’ consultation.

jennifert7:”seems to me it’s the president who is trying to scare everyone into supporting and rushing this thing ”
You do know that now the deadline has been dropped the “rushing” talking point looks kinda stupid, don’t you? Obama held a health care summit in February to kick this off, and it won’t be passed until September at the earliest, probably October. How long do you want to take?? Laws have to be passed in a single session of Congress – it’s almost not possible for healthcare to go slower or take longer at this point.

OBAMA IS INCORRECT ABOUT ENEMY IDENTIFICATION – HE… IS THE ENEMY, NOT US. NOTICE HOW HE HAS QUIT TYING TO DEBATE GOV HEALTH CARE ON ITS MERITS – INSTEAD, HE TRASHES THE OPPOSITION – NOT VERY BRIGHT. I DID NOT DISRESPECT HIM UNTIL HE USED A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD CHILD AS A PLANT TO TRASH THOSE WHO RESPECTIVELY DISAGREE WITH HIS HEALTH CARE PLANS.

I THOUGHT THAT PALIN COULD HAVE USED A BETTER CHOICE OF WORDS, BUT HER ANALYSIS WAS SPOT ON – SOCIALIZED MEDICINE “ALWAYS” WILL PRODUCE SOME KIND OF “RATIONING.” THIS MEANS, NO DOUBT, THAT A PERSON’S HEALTH SERVICE NEEDS TO BE “COST EFFECTIVE.” SOME WILL DIE BECAUSE OF IT.

Obama’s whole premise for his plan is that insurance companies are cheating people and not giving good care, in orders they have to be cut out of health care and replaced by the government. But it is not insurance companies who are at fault for the high cost of health care —
I hoped that if someone was going to fix health care they would look in the right direction and this includes (to name a few):
1. The heart doctors who have the power to run a hospital and pat their cheating buds on the back by awarding them contracts
2. The pharmaceutical and supply companies who also cheat on prices. Pharmaceuticals says they need the high prices to cover their cost of producing new medication, but the medication never gets cheaper.
3. The government which makes hospitals take care of the poor and they have to pass it along to the cost of everybody’s else’s medical care.
4. The education system who decided almost everybody working in medical needed some kind degree for jobs that one could learn in six months time, like xray tech and many others.
5. And Law suits have caused doctors to have to pay huge amounts of insurance coverage which is passed along to patients.
When the costs of health care sky rocketed, I saw insurance companies falling apart and then joining together to survive. So why are they getting blamed? Because insurance companies don’t make as much money as pharmaceuticals and don’t have the lobbyists to make their case.

Excuse me, I meant to say in other words.

The more he talks, the worse it sounds. He comes off as a slippery sleezy used car salesman trying to sell a lemon.
He gets caught up in lies, uses shills & plants to ask phoney questions, the whole thing stinks of propaganda techniques.

Who DOES have the lobbyists to make their case? It is the very wealthy pharmaceuticals companies and Obama has evidently made some deal with them. Obama will not work with or listen to insurance companies. They are bad because they don’t have the funds that the pharmaceutical companies have to lobby and bribe.

So, again it is the big corporations that are calling the shots. Whether it be Democrat or Republican, it is the same bag of trash. We have to just take what they dish out.

ERIC – WHAT LIES? THE FAILURES OF THE BRITISH AND CANADIAN HEALTH SYSTEMS HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED. IT INCLUDES; LONG WAIT TIMES – ESPECIALLY FOR PROCEDURES, SHORTAGE OF DOCTORS, INFERIOR CARE AND SOME FORM OF RATIONING – WHICH “DOES” RESULT IN SOME DYING EARLY BECAUSE OF IT – PALIN WAS RIGHT ABOUT THAT. “GOV OPTION” ALSO WILL NOT WORK AS PRIVATE INS COMPANIES WILL BE GONE QUICKLY AS THEY WILL NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO COMPETE AGAINST TAXPAYER FUNDED PLANS. THESE ARE “NOT” LIES. I CHALLENGE, YOU, OBAMA OR ANYONE ELSE TO DISPUTE THEM. WHAT WE ARE GETTING NOW FROM OBAMA AND THE LEFT IS NOT RATIONAL DISCUSSION ON THE PLAN’S MERITS – JUST MORE TRASHING OF THOSE WHO OPPOSE HIS PLANS. SAME BULL – DIFFERENT DAY

Very good points, UBU. Bottom line we know we can’t trust them to follow through as they promised.

Why no mention of the CBO reports, all of which contradict Obama’s claims?
Anyway, common sense can tell you that nothing is ever free – there is no free lunch, somewhere somehow, it’s paid for, usually by the taxpayer or in restricted service.

Obama is still campaigning and not leading. No details, just promises. Reminds me of the cool guy that always ran for class president in high school that promised a student lounge with pool tables, days off from school, free cokes and pizza, etc… but after the election, reality sets in.
He is still at the town halls, promising the world at no cost or sacrifice to anyone. I think at this point the American public wants details, specifics.. not broad strokes.

Gallup shows it running neck in neck. This one shows them closer together then others I have seen.
Americans to Congress:36% against new healthcare law; 35% for
Obama on Healthcare:49% disapprove; 43% approve

Not a bad article, but lying goes both ways. I also find it amusing that those that are accusing the opposition using phony mercenary protesters are the ones who have actually taken publicized action to organize phony mercenary protesters ( check out MoveOn. Org for one.) Of course, mercenary protesters can’t begin to shine a light next to 11 year old kids who want to know about ” mean people.” (Why does the left always have to drag their kids into these things? Like taking your cleanest shirt and washing it in the toilet!) Anyways, hmm…let’s see…”death panels.” I guess the media isn’t done using up Sarah Palin yet. Not the brightest spokesperson in our nation’s history. She ranks real close to Joe Biden which makes her a great VP choice. As to rationing. Hmm… every socialized health care system has had to resort to it. The Prez has yet to tell me how this one is going to differ. As to “outrageous claims”, I think the Prez should just jettison the “58 million” uninsured claim from the last “Town Hall Rally Against Really Mean People” meeting and just shoot for an even 1oo million or even a billion!

Keeping you existing healthcare coverage is not your choice – it is your employers. Given ANY opportunity to dump that huge expense, every employer will jump at the chance, and there will be nothing left but the public option, and that will be socialized medicine.

What is wrong with you right wingers? President Obama the Democrats and a few Republicans are trying to bring down the RISING COST OF HEALTHCARE. So familes and Businesses dont go Bankrupt! You would think you would be happy about that. No one complained when Bush and Republicans spent 800 Million dollars on Perscription drugs reform for Medicare AND DIDNT PAY FOR IT! Only added it to the Deficit, I am really beginning to see this isnt about Healthcare with you Right Wingers its about your Hatred for the President and in some will never accept a BLACK MAN FOR A PRESIDENT Look at the people showing up in the Town Halls in the Republican District they are still living in the 50S AND 60S When Racisim was really bad you cant CHANGE THEM!

PAPPY
Tarp and Gitmo we can thank Bush for them!

“Obama is on record in 2003 and 2006 as being for a single-payer system.”
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That thing with universal? You have to listen to the whole thing. You got a sound bite here and yet again took it on faith. Obama said that if he could develop a health care system from the ground up, it would be single payor. But what’s not shown on the tape was that he went on to say that it wasn’t possible to do that now because our system was entrenched. He said that reforms were needed, but that we couldn’t just start over now.

Rob
Did you not hear the President Yesterday he said He wants to Build on the CURRENT SYSTEM He said Single Payer would on dismantle the Entire system and we cant do that STOP WITH THE LIES!

Obama’s Folly can’t withstand the light of day.

AGE DISCRIMINATION:
Dr. Emanuel has written that some medical services should not be guaranteed to those “who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens….An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia.” [10] Dr. Emanuel has also advocated basing medical decisions on a system which “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.” [11]

Its scary to everyone but the president because he don’t have to use the public option or pay for it…this guy is thin skinned and in way over his head…he can’t take criticism…ignores many americans concerns and will be a disaster if you can’t see that than put down the kool aid

Look at what happened in England: all the good doctors don’t participate in the public option – they are in private practice that caters to the wealthy. So socialized medicine actually reduced the public’s availablity to quality doctors and reduced the healthcare capacity. That’s why there are long waits for inferior care in the UK and Canada.
Posted by: Alex
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We are not talking about socialized. Well, your side is. But that is not what this is about.

The democrats running this country are running it into bankrupcy

phillysmart
You should really drop the Smart thing on your user name using the term KOOL-AID! While were trying to have a debate well like I said drop the smart thing!

Angie my friend you are not trying to have a debate you are spewing talking points for the president….he is for a single payer sytem he said it on tape at least two times ..yet you deny it…The current plan will cause rationing and will balloon the debt …yet you deny it…how can you have a debate if you won’t accept facts…the President has been shown in 7 short months that he doesn’t always speak the truth …do i need to mention the AARP comment and the phony shills…if you ignore facts that are not supportive of your argument and blindly follow you really can’t have a debate

PHILLY SMART
I am not denying facts and yes the President did speak of the Single payer but if you go on to listen he said that is not possible. And the AARP Does support Healthcare reform BUT THERE IS NO FINAL BILL YET!You see you right wingers who lie distort the Facts take little sound bites You are the ones denying Facts LOOK AT YOUR PARTY WITH THEIR PATHETIC DEATH PANEL BS! People are starting to laugh at you

What are “phoney shills?”
Regarding those tapes:
Obama said that if he could develop a health care system from the ground up, it would be single payor. But what’s not shown on the tape was that he went on to say that it wasn’t possible to do that now because our system was entrenched. He said that reforms were needed, but that we couldn’t just start over now.******************
Here’s another tidbit to help you. The AARP? Well, they’re holding out for a guaranteed reduction is pill costs. Other than that they are indeed on board. Soon you will know I am right.

Jhw539 wrote:
“Every current reform proposal maintains a large private insurance presence, with the CBO (who by their cost estimates are clearly not pandering to the Whitehouse) predicting 90% of employed people will continue to be covered by private insurance after 10 years.
“The private market works great when there is competition and appropriate rules of the game. A public option would provide competition, and a few commonsense regulations would level the playing field.”
HR 3200, Sec. 313 (Employer Contributions In Lieu of Coverage) spells out the employer contributions should the employer elect not to provide healthcare coverage for his or her employees. If the total annual payroll does not exceed $250,000, there is NO applicable percentage; if the total annual payroll exceeds $250,000 but does not exceed $300,000, the applicable percentage is 2%; if the total annual payroll exceeds $300,000 but does not exceed $350,000, the applicable percentage is 4%; if the total annual payroll exceeds $350,000 but does not exceed $400,000, the applicable percentage is 6%; if the total annual payroll exceeds $400,000, the applicable percentage is 8%.
According to information on the National Coalition on Health Care website, the annual premium for an employee health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.
So if an employer has 10 employees with a total payroll of between $250,000 and $300,000, his 2% contribution would be between $5,000 and $6,000. Compare that to the employer paying between $47,000 (if all 10 employees have the single coverage) and $127,000 (if all 10 employees have the family coverage) for their current private healthcare plans. Even if the total payroll for this employer was $500,000, his 8% contribution would be just $40,000.
It is SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER–thus HR 3200 provides a huge INCENTIVE–for an employer to opt out of their current private healthcare plans for their employees and switch them to the public option.
Why in the world would ANY employer continue to provide private healthcare plans for their employers under HR 3200 with that kind of savings?

Angie ..he said that is not possible immediately but eventually we will get there and he supports that…you need to put aside your support and stop trying to make the facts fit your argument…than we can debate..bottom line we have the best health care in the world do we need reform absolutely…but the current bill will only make the matter worse

Hey Angie- WOW… You believe Obama???? He is a REPEAT LIAR! HR3200 IS THE ONLY BILL THAT HAS PASSED ALL OF THE HOUSE COMMITTEES AND COULD COME TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE!!!! Why is OBAMA going to “Town Hall” meetings to promote a bill that has yet to be created then?????? THINK… USE LOGIC.

Hey secondlook…maybe we should have been more diligent….but be glad we are questioning it now because we are being asked to pay for a trillion dollar gamble…you might like to pay more taxes I don’t …this is not a partisan issue stop looking at things through that lens

Thinking – did you read my whole post? The other things in my post would drive DOWN the cost of insurance, so it wouldn’t be $13,000. And that $13,000 your employer is paying for your healthcare, he/she could be paying you in salary. You would end up making money, because insurance would cost less. All of my post would have to be put into place to decrease the cost for everyone.

Bogeymen or not, had people not stood up and ask questions there would have been a bill signed sealed and delivered that noboby would know what was in it, sort of like the stimulus bill.
And a correction. I haven’t heard anyone say they were against reform, most are simply against more Government programs that do not have the best chances of being solvent such as social security, medicare.

secondlook…I guess you are ignoring facts too…he is on tape..the same speech angie referred to…in 2003 and 2006 to union members …google it will come up …but I don’t think your interested in facts which don’t support your argument

Sorry guys…when someone comes to a town hall meeting with a gun strapped to his leg…this is not a joke. These crowds can sometimes get roudious and someone with a gun is not the one you want to be near…republican or democrat.

SecondLook, Obama’s quote from January 2008 is (all-capital emphasis is mine):
“If I were designing a system from scratch I WOULD PROBABLY SET UP A SINGLE-PAYER SYSTEM…But we’re not designing a system from scratch…And when we had a healthcare forum before I set up my healthcare plan here in Iowa there was a lot of resistance to a single-payer system. So what I believe is we should set up a series of choices…OVER TIME IT MAY BE THAT WE END UP TRANSITIONING TO SUCH A SYSTEM. For now, I just want to make sure every American is covered…I DON’T WANT TO WAIT FOR THAT PERFECT SYSTEM.”

“OVER TIME IT MAY BE THAT WE END UP TRANSITIONING TO SUCH A SYSTEM. For now, I just want to make sure every American is covered…I DON’T WANT TO WAIT FOR THAT PERFECT SYSTEM.”
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Key words: “May be.”
Something that is not evil: “I just want to make sure every American is covered.”

hey secondlook…It may surprise you that I have been a lifelong democrat…supported Obama….health care reform is need…costs need to be brought down…everyone needs to be covered…a massive government takeover (which the current bills do) is not the answer…its way too costly…will destroy jobs…lower the quality of care…thats the reason I’m against it…because I am a democrat I still can think as well…and the speeches are out there they have been played endlessly…I don’t have the sources off the top of my head…so you can ignore it if you want

what scares me the most, is the fact that I was missdiagnosed last year, twice by 7 doctors all working together, almost 2 years ago I was given 6 months to live, they had me on medicine that even further was destroying me, then 5 months after I was finally giving up, by then I was in a wheel chair unable to breathe after a short walk to the restroom, so I went to Dallas TX, where my parents live, and scheduled second opinion with a doctor there at Bailor, she stopped the drugs, even took me 2 weeks before the apointment, a month after that I was walking, 2 months and I was back at work again. So my biggest concern with this socialized healthcare is that once some doctor who has no idea what is going on diagnoses you under the proposed bill, it now becomes your record, and from now on you will only get treatments for this one ilness, be it wrong or right diagnosses, btw this year I have only visited a doctor once, my personal physitian, and if I would have stayed under my orginal diagnosis, I would have probably been dead by now.

BOB
I Have read the Bill! anyone can as a matter of fact CNN Has it on their Web-Site,But what is Happening the Republicans or Republican Fox News channel are taking things in the Bill Lying twisting and scaring people Because some might not understand the Big language used in the Bill!

Hey secondlook …I agree with you on congress Most of those idiots are out of touch and need a wake up call…they are suppose to represent people and right or wrong people feel they are not being listened to

Angie:”Some people complaing the President is Ramming this or shoving this down our throats, humm lets see lets go back to 2000 shall we? When Bush rammed and shoved the Iraq War down our throats with his WMD LIE! I Understand you Republicans feel betrayed because your President Lied to you. But thats no excuse for you to name call or lie about President Obama!”
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So … when one president tries to rush something through it’s a sin but when your guy tries the same thing it’s OK? Where’s the logic in that? BTW, the invasion of Iraq was anything but rushed. The debate went on for months and monts, ending with a Congressional resolution granting the president special war powers.

phillysmart:
I am not totally well versed on all arguments with “the public option.” I can assure you I even understand the concerns with additional government as I share them.
I don’t think they’ll pass the public option at this point.
I just debunked “the source” as I believe the other person quoted it. It was “over time it may be.”
I would agree with “may be.” Because I am not so sure that eventually if things get too ugly it might not be the only solution. Sort of like how sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils maybe. Sometimes in life there is just no great solution. It all remains to be seen. So “may be” could be like I tend to think. Waaayyyyy in the future maybe. Depends.
Know this tho. I lived in Toronto during SARS. They scared me to death up there. I don’t dig universal. Only I have a heart and sure as heck don’t dig people not being able to afford coverage either.
You guys fear what you want. I only ask you fear it on merit and not lies. I more fear big business raping us again on “costs.” Like that 2003 pill bill at record prices they refused to negotiate. And then they raised the prices on all the old people drugs prior to it taking effect. Our congress is in bed with big business. Both sides. Right now I’m going pills on the left, insurance on the right.

Obama is refuting the sensational because he can’t refute the facts and he has created a boogeyman of his own, the insurance companies. When he can honestly refute the CBO and the independent groups that say that 80 to 100 million will be forced onto the public option maybe then something else he says can be believed.

SecondLook
Your automobile liability insurance the largest part of the premium is not based upon the actions of others. It is based on your driving history, claims history, driving experience, etc. (your personal criteria)
Your homeowners policy is based upon your prior claims history, value of your home, location and condition of your home. (your personal criteria)
Education and healthcare are not comparable. duh!
For those of you who believe you can cover more people; it will cost less; and that healthcare will not be rationed. The government will ration healthcare with their tables for seniors. How date you speak for me and attempt to know my thoughts. If I enter into a contract with an insurance carrier and they breach the contract, then you bet they should be sued. If the government failes to honor their side of the agreement, we are without recourse since it benefits society and they have included a provision that limits their exposure.

I oppose the current health plan. A comprehensive health plan should cover all and take effect immediately.

The health care critics have no need to invent a bogeyman, marx-lenin invented it. The question is why does the media love it so?

Obama: Let’s see, demonizing and calling the elderly who showed up for answers about health care at the town halls “unruly mobs” didn’t work. People saw the videos and they all looked like grandma and grandpa.
Demonizing doctors hasn’t worked. Apparently, people like their doctors.
Demonizing insurance companies pretty much a wash.
Can’t demonize trial lawyers. They give too much money to me.
Palin’s a good target. She weirds out my lefties but she made points with the whole “death panel” exposé. Can’t throw anymore publicity her way.
Hmmm… Who should become the target of the White House. Saul said you need a target…
Talk radio and Fox News seems to get the can’t MoveOn crowd going. Let’s go back to that.
Rahm! Get the new FCC Diversity Czar on my Blackberry. STAT! (*heh heh heh… I so could have been a doctor if I hadn’t gone to law school to become a community organizer.*)

ubu horse hockey. Averages are used in all insurance models. THEN they get ya for your history.
I still want to know how you can support that tort reform, but whine if you couldn’t sue the government?
And lastly? Attention K Mart shoppers!!!! The board room full of executives at your insurance company indeed “rations your care.” This is an argument about WHO should ration.

WOW Angie, but not unexpected! The truth makes you squirm, and the only thing you can do is go off on a tangent. We are talking about socializing health care, right?

Health costs can only go down if something is done to curb legal expenses, i.e. extravagant lawsuits and ambulance chasers. Until that issue is addressed, the President’s health care plan is doomed.

phillysmart, so since you’re against socialism, you’ll refuse Medicare for yourself and for your parents. You’ll also stop driving on our interstate highways, pull your kids or grandkids out of public school, and never fly on a commercial airliner again (since they use the “socialist” federal aviation infrastructure). Right? Right???

Even if the president “wins” this healthcare debate and has some health care reformed passed by Congress, he will lose in the long run. Because of the tactics being employed by the White House and Congressional leadership, poll numbers for the administration and Congress are dropping rapidly. It is ironic that Democrats are accusing Republicans of stacking town hall meetings with “shills” for health insurance providers, when it is quite apparent that they are the ones staking the audience. Take for example the nine year-old who asked the President about the people protesting outside carrying the “mean” signs – she was a plant. Or the Obama campaign worker who poased as a doctor at Shelia Jackson Lee’s town hall event. Or the rancor associated with Kathy Castor’s town hall event when people who waited in line for hours couldn’t get into the event because of the reserved seats for supporters who arrived later. The saddest part of all of this is that our healthcare system needs some reform, but the President and Congress have really messed up with this one.

- Indithinker… Your not thinking.. if you were, you would know that the people are very concerned about what the GOV’T is doing! You should too. They are taking your liberty and freedoms. The very thing the revolution was based off. Amazing that you are willing to give up so much of your freedom and life in return for so little. Maybe those who were at the tea parties were not afraid of losing jobs. Maybe they have something you don’t, nor does the government… Responsibility. They have saved, they have sacrificed, they love freedom and liberty! Maybe you should try this and hold the lawmakers accountable. But most likely not.

Some Republicans not all do not like Regualtion, Mccain being one of them They dont Like Goverment Involed with the Private sector so to Regualte the Health Insurance company would be Socialism to some Republicans

Obama has his own boogeyman, the insurance companies, which the left is happy to vilify but it is the state and federal regulations that actually raise premiums, not lower them. Even the CBO has analyzed how this fact makes insurance premiums higher.
In January 2005, Mark Showalter, William Con­gdon, and Amanda Kowalski published a working paper entitled “State Health Insurance Regulation and the Price of High-Deductible Policies.”[3] The authors used two separate datasets in their analysis. Golden Rule insurance provided 2003 insurance premium data from a series of random zip codes in 37 states, and eHealthInsurance, a major Internet broker of health insurance, provided pre­mium data from insurance policies sold through its Web site.
The authors focused on four types of regulations: (1) mandated health benefits, which require insur­ers to cover particular treatments or particular ser­vices; (2) “any willing provider” laws, which restrict insurers’ ability to exclude hospitals and doctors from their networks; (3) community rating laws, which require insurers to limit premium differences across individuals; and (4) guaranteed issue laws, which require insurers to sell insurance to all poten­tial customers regardless of health or pre-existing conditions.
The authors found that each of these four types of regulations results in statistically significant increases in health insurance premiums. The find­ings were consistent across both the eHealthInsur­ance.com and Golden Rule datasets. The authors estimated that eliminating all of these regulations could save individuals up to $2,000 per year in insurance premiums.

They are taking away Our Freedoms
so Bob why didnt you complain when Bush and Republicans signed the Patriot Act you know the Little spying game on Us Citizens!

Socialism Kills the human spirit…maybe some of you need that …I don’t

Town hall shouting, death threats, and Nazi signs are not about health care reform. They are about destroying President Obama. Tim Pawlenty himself has said that. He said that if the GOP can defeat health care reform they can have a resurgence. Jim DeMint said much the same thing.
In other words, for the GOP, this is not an issue of holding down skyrocketing costs or righting the abuses of so many left out while other insured people know they will lose their insurance as soon as they get a serious illness.
For the GOP, this is a political issue plain and simple.

Jenny, because there is no “bill” right now. There are 4 bills in the House and at least 2 in the Senate. What you’ve been told is in the “bill” is a list that has been purposefully cherry-picked from a few different bills. They’ve been cherry-picked by Fox to scare you. Period.

I’m actually getting a little tired of Obamma acting like he’s still the party chief. Somehow I just don’t think that HealthCare reform is something to joke about. But then — that’s ALWAYS his tactic: Hey guys, let me give you some celebrity “spin” and all will be well.
Hey Obamma: Have you actually given some thought to how serious this issue is? It’s certainly not something to be “stupidly” touted around over a beer or polite respect for your office. As long as you continue to play and spin like Ray Nagin, I’ll continue to call your “plan” what it is: a Ponzi scheme. Next time you want my attention, try talking straight. Notice how “to the point” that man in Montanna was: You don’t have a plan and you can’t tell me how you’re gonna pay for it.”

I agree with the President that the news media is giving too much attention to the troublemakers that are disturbing these town hall meetings. Lets start focusing on the problems rather than what the anti-health care lobby wants which is no reform. Start focusing on the: 50+ million with no health care at all and the 25+ million who are underinsured, if nothing is done Medicaid and Medicare, along with the whole economy, will go bankrupt, right now insurance executives pull the plug and decide who gets what care, there is already competition between the government and private industry (did anyone hear about the postal service and public education), and why is it that we are the only industrialize democracy that does not offer Universal Healthcare to its people? I have noticed that when covering these town halls only the anti-health lobby gets covered. I feel there is tremendous bias in the news media. Why not cover the other people that agree that we need reform now?

How Much Do Mandates Increase the Cost of Health Insurance? The Milliman & Robertson analysis of 12 of the most common mandates is based on policies in a representative state.
Assuming that a mandate-free, basic health insurance policy costs a family about $3,500 a year, the study found that:
* Several of the mandates would increase the cost of a policy by less than $35 each.
* Infertility treatment could increase the cost between $105 and $175 a year.
* Mental health parity, which requires insurers to treat mental illnesses like physical illnesses, could add between $175 and $350 to the cost of a policy.
Taken together, the package of 12 mandates could increase the cost of a family health insurance policy by as much as 15 to 30 percent, or $525 to $1,050 a year. Based on these estimates, we conclude that a small business employing 25 people – with a standard mix of 40 percent single and 60 percent family coverage – could see its premiums rise by $20,000 a year.

— Angie, I did complain. I did not like the expansion of gov’t under bush. I do not like it now. I do not like Social Security! There are portions of Medicare and Medicaid that I do not like either… but until we get people to be responsible, it must be there for now. Now how do you get people to be responsible… well glad you asked: Punish failure and reward success! Not the other way around! Here is a good idea for health insurance reform:
Make health insurance… Insurance!
You do not expect your car insurance to cover a oil change or 15k check up. Why not pay the doctor directly (NO MIDDLE MAN). Let the market dictate the prices. They will go down, that is what competition does. Get government out of dictating insurance coverage requirements! Why should a single man have to cover pap smears or pregnancy?
Now for the responsibility: Have a medical savings account controlled by U, not the govt. Now I hate to say it, but it would have to be force upon people since most are not responsible enough to put money away. maybe 2-5% of a pay check. Yes, the govt could give vouchers for the people who are just starting out or cant possibly afford this, but these would be mini loans. You would also be required to buy catastrophic insurance with a 10k deductible… and not though your employer. now the Employer is out of the business totally, and so is the GOVT. (for most) Why isn’t this idea being promoted… well it does not give power to the GOVT! THINK!

Jenny
the White House asked for the Lies and Mis information and you could go to the Web-Site and Fact Check you Believe anything some one tells you and Yes those are one of the Things I am not happy about with Obama with him keeping the Bush spy program!

phillysmart, what? which one of the things I mentioned are NOT run by the Government. Here, I’ll list them again: Medicare, Social Security, Federal Aviation infrastructure, Federal Highways. They’re bad examples in your mind because you know you don’t have a legitimate answer to why you will immediately cease and desist using all of those services for you and your family.

Lately we are seeing normally left leaning newsies discovering that Obama is reverting to “campaign mode”. Why is this surprising? Obama’s entire experience is the “campaign”. He has never governed. He has no professional credentials, save for being an adjunct law professor. He did do some time in the Illinois state legislature. But he seems to have been not much interested in the nitty gritty work of a legislator. He skipped or had no opinion on hundreds of votes. In fairness to the President, though, he did show interest in funneling money to organizations that would be useful to him in the next “campaign”. Now, as to his skills as a “campaigner”, the President is very good at using the concept of divide and conquer. It has served him well in getting him where he is now. You might say that demonizing the opposition is his specialty. Perhaps it will work yet again in the Health Insurance Reform “campaign”.

Jenny: “Why isn’t everyone questioning the inconsistencies between what is written in the bill and what obama, pelosi, etc. are saying? We should want MORE from our elected officials. The fact that so many Americans are protesting, along with the dropping poll numbers for this bill should prompt the president and congress to have additional discussions and debates, resulting in compromise.” ——————————————-
People are questioning. The problem is that in the first town hall meetings representatives weren’t prepared to answer the questions and weren’t expecting so many citizens to be against the proposed house version of the bill. Because they looked stupid (uninformed) the representatives (and media) focused on the anger people were expressing to deflect from their lack of preparedness. Hence Pelosi’s use of the term “Nazis” and “Astroturf”. When Americans were villified by our elected representatives for excercising their right to speak and have open dialogue, that angered even more people and the poll numbers started dropping rapidly. That’s when the administration and Congressional leaders had to re-write the playbook.

“I haven’t watched the news after I witnessed the biased coverage of Hillary Clinton in last year’s primaries.”…………….. Ya think? They sure got a bit sexist on that one? I don’t suppose you’ve paid attention to the news lately with her? They’re doing it again.

Reality Check
Seniors were promised when Medicare began that they could keep their private insurance too, didn’t happen, sound eerily familiar, now they are herded onto Medicare like slaves because they have no other option. This bill has nothing to do with reform, it is all about bailing out these present entitlements. They have no other choice but to force more people into the system to pay for Medicare. They would love nothing more than to collect money from you for the next 50 years knowing that they won’t need to spend a dime until you are a senior. It’s all about the money, the money that they don’t have.

“I’ve been against obama and his thug dems and dnc after I witnessed first hand the cheating and fraudulent tactics he used against Clinton in the primaries. They will do anything and everything to win – including illegal activities.”…………. Wait a minute. What illegal activities? They all cheat and lie and dog on the next guy when running.

Ellsbells
then lets get rid of the Military that evil damn Socialist program!

ells (remember – we have a fond history here) . . .
What difference does it make if it’s state or federal? It’s all the same. Nobody can opt out. Most fire is vol? Don’t agree. And actually if only our feds ran like the USPS. You realize they take no taxes from you? I think they’ve managed well since faxes and computers really. Oh, and not all towns have school options.

Someone already said-This uproar is not about health care reform. It is abount a Black man for president which is Obama. The GOP is pouring the gas on it stricking a match and sitting back in laughter. The don’t give a flying fish about people that lost their coverage or expensive cost of insurace. I work for the State of Fl and can only afford insurance for me but not my kids. The Repulicans are some of the worst. But I believe that this reform will pass with or without them. And they (gop) will end up again with egg on their faces.

Wait a minute. What illegal activities? They all cheat and lie and dog on the next guy when running.
Posted by: SecondLook | Aug 15, 2009 11:27:37 AM
Yes they do, I’ll agree. But obama and his cheating campaign trained people to attend caucuses. They bussed these people to the caucuses and intimidated Clinton supporters; they pushed them and locked them out of the buildings, stole caucus sheets and rewrote the results.
The DNC planned the entire scenario with stealing the FL & MI delegates from Clinton. Behind the scenes, a major attack on African American superdelegates that supported Clinton ensued.
But Clinton prevailed in the end – all those cheats and thugs that endorsed Clinton are in a heap of legal trouble right now and tained: Bill Richardson, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Tom Dashcle – and the list goes on and on.

Jenny
Stop being Bitter because Hillary lost Put the Past in the Past shes in the Administration and you could bet she has a large part of this Healthcare reform push they are working together

Angie, it has been pointed out to you before that the Constitution provides for the formation of a military. Please try to retain this information.

Jenny, thanks for the laugh. Nowhere in your post did you mention anything that comes close to the “cheating” you’re ranting about. And you even brought back the canard about Michigan and Florida. Little reality for you Jenny: CLINTON loyalists CONTROLLED the DNC when all the Michigan and Florida rules were made. Good Lord. No wonder it’s so easy to gin up people to scream at these town halls. Nobody pays attention to those pesky things called facts.

“It is abount a Black man for president which is Obama. The GOP is pouring the gas on it stricking a match and sitting back in laughter.”
Yawn. Give it a rest. The GOP didn’t block the bill because they DON’T HAVE THE VOTES TO. Blue Dog DEMOCRATS blocked the bill!! Calling people racists who aren’t is what’s pouring fuel on the fire. Obama is failing because he’s not LISTENING to the people.
But please do continue to attack regular Americans for expressing dissent. Let’s see how well that turns out for everyone.

Angie, That is where the Reward for success is: If you and your doctor set up goals… say lose 35 lbs, and maybe get your regular checkups, the the govt. could give a tax deduction to the both of you… Reward success. Yes, it comes back to personal responsibility in the end.

Alyson – the obama administration cut a deal with BIG PHARMA behind CLOSED DOORS to the tune of $80 billion. In exchange, one of the things BIG PHARMA will be doing is ADVERTISING this health care bill for obama – $150 million dollars in advertising to promote this bill.
***
Jenny, while everyone has been arguing death panels I’ve been one of the people expressing concern about the deals and the lack of transparency, here and elsewhere. But the insurance company and Big Pharma aren’t one and the same. There’s also been a deal cut with hospital associations and we don’t have the details on that. If there is a deal cut with insurance companies, I will be on it. I’ve written my senator on this subject. Have you? I want transparency.
The deal with Big Pharma doesn’t refute the practices of Big Insurance. And Big Oil is up next. Instead of hurling accusations about objectivity, consider that I’ve worked in insurance and manged care and there is a reason, real reason, I wish people would tune in to the whistleblowers. I’m not all in for public options or single payers although I think looking at them objectively is reasonable and makes sense– but the insurance companies are a problem and not a false bogeyman.

Bob
So your saying the Gov should pretty much pay people to lose weight? who is gonna PAY For the Tax deductions?

“I agree with the President that the news media is giving too much attention to the troublemakers that are disturbing these town hall meetings. Lets start focusing on the problems rather than what the anti-health care lobby wants which is no reform.”
YOU obviously never read this bill.
This shabby pathetic defense of a plan designed to rip off the productive citizens of America in order to reward the illegals and irresponsible members of society is UNAMERICAN!
READ THE US CONSTITUTION!
America was not founded to be a ROBIN HOOD society!
America is a place of OPPORTUNITY for those who wish to work hard, sacrifice, better themselves, delay gratification and take risk in order to educate themselves,innovate, and create better lives for themselves and their families.
Charity is a noble aspiration…but charity is NOT a function of government! And to take that which has been earned by one individual in order to give it to another individual who has NOT earned it, is
STEALING!
Furthermore, this travesty will unethically and immorally RATION access to medical care by creating another huge wasteful government bureaucracy controlled by by arrogant, ignorant, paper pushers who have no understanding of patient care at all!
H.R. 3200 is not the solution to the health care problem.
H.R. 3200 CREATES MORE PROBLEMS!

Posted by: SecondLook | Aug 15, 2009 11:36:31 AM Go look it up. How the Medicare program began and what it promised, seniors today don’t have much choice but to enroll in Medicare even if they have the money to take care of themselves, there is no private insurance for seniors, it has been driven out of the market. They can get supplemental and that is it. Even though the law is still on the books that they can keep their private insurance it is a mute point.

SecondLook – it matters because of the Constitution -you know -that pesky little document that defines our country? And as for the fire companies – see my post regarding the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Bob, if you’d tone down some of that you’d make a better argument. Just saying.
Abortion. The other night on Wolf they had the X wife of that guy that killed the abortion doctor. Wolf asked her what she’d say to him if he was watching.
“I’d ask him if he cares about the children so much why I had to fight for years for any child support.
I would ask him why he could not pay for his son to see a dentist.”
I thought this was pretty powerful.

There is a small minority of people in this country who should be ashamed of themselves. I do not know how they can call themselves Americans. These are the people who believe we should be turning cancer patients away from hospitals and having our emergency rooms drop off uninsured patients far enough away from the hospital that they cannot easily return, while knowing that some of these people will die. These people have no guilt about accepting their tax payer funded Medicare and Social Security benefits, while at the same time saying it is not their job to help other Americans who are sick and in need. Some have gone as far as to spray paint swastikas and other symbols of hatred on the property of anyone who supports change or reform.
While other countries have seen the need to provide health care for ALL of their people, it seems that only the good old selfish Americans can say things like – hey, let them take care of themselves and… DON’T TOUCH MY MEDICARE!!
Right now, profit based insurance companies and CEO’s are standing between patients and their doctors; more specifically, between me and my doctor. When I had a heart attack, my insurance company did not pay the bill. They said that my contract states that I MUST pay ALL of my co-pays and deductibles before they are legally required to pay their portion. My share came to $10,000!! If I couldn’t pay, I would be bankrupt! I was one of the lucky ones, who could scrape up enough money to pay, but my insurance company has since dropped my coverage and no one else will pick it up. My doctor said that based on his experience, no insurance company will ever insure me again and so far, he has been right.
Now if I speak out, I face bullies carrying guns and people calling me a NAZI. Of course, my insurance company is against reform, and so are a few others in this country – but the right thing to do is so obvious, that nothing will stop my campaign to achieve HEALTH CARE REFORM FOR ALL AMERICANS!

Hey Angie – I know seniors who would gladly give up both, except for the fact that they have paid so much into both programs. They are both big ponzi schemes. And anyone who is still alive that set them up should be in prison with Madoff.

The Obama CREW is out in force.
BanaderaScout Is completely right >>>>>
This is not about health care nor health insurance, it’s about Government control. Remember, anything a Government controls and supplies, they can take away. You are all blowing smoke in the wrong direction. Ask yourselves how much control you want to give to Washington? >>>>>>> Your freedoms are being taken away and your debt is being risen beyond recovery. Is that what you want? Whats the point of making a public option when we can fix the current system. ITS CLUELESS people who think the bogeyman is business or the OIL companies. GEE I thought those people give you jobs as well as a good living. Obama is ALL over the map. One day is Public option next day is Insurance reform. Which is it? LIE’s AARP ? Arrogance Sheila Jackson cant be bothered while she talks on her cell phone. Again what does the public option give us that cant be done by fixing the current system with mandates and Pooling?

Angie,
Let me guess you live somewhere on the west or east coast. I wouldn’t be on this sight if I get all my info from Fox. You must listen to Fox yourself. I live in Ohio and I think everyone who wants reform should go ahead and get it. Just leave the rest of us alone. Especialy my money.
I don’t want to pay for ilegals to have health care, if you do, pay for it.
I work 65 hours a week to keep my head above water and I give more than my share to charities. I want the government AND PEOPLE LIKE NASTY PELOSI
TO STAY OUT OF MY LIFE.

What percentage of the HALF of this country that don’t pay taxes are the ones pushing for free healthcare. My guess is that it’s a lot. Just more pressure on the people of this country who actually carry the water. No wonder they are upset.

CBO Already stated this will make costs GO UP. Not down. So everyone will be effected because your health insurance bills will be going up. BURN HR3200 and start with real reform.

DOES Reform mean replace. Where is that in the definition? Does Reform mean BUILD HUGE NEW SYSTEM? Obama LIES and has been caught. Guess I will be on Flag Whitehouse

Alyson – you really need to tell the whole story. I worked in hospital finance for 20 years & know exactly how we got here- and it all started with Medicare.
Once Medicare decided in the early 80′s to start using the Prospective Payment System (PPS) to decrease payments, things started going downhill very fast.
Medicare, under the DRG structure did not cover the cost of Medicare patients to providers. In order to even come close to breaking even, hospitals had to get patients out the door in the # of average days assigned to the particular DRG. Most of the time they couldn’t.
Most private insurance companies at the time were still holding mostly indemnity policies paying on a percent of charges basis.
Providers, in order to stay in business, started ‘cost shifting’; charging less for services used mostly by Medicare patients and charging more for services used mostly by private insurance & self-pay patients.
Insurance companies got fed up with covering the difference and went to their own PPS programs and pushing the HMOs they developed to use them. When insurance companies started only allowing so many days stay – it came from the Medicare DRG system of ALOS tied to each DRG. Private insurance closely followed what Medicare regs were being put into effect. For example, when Medicare wanted to unbundle charges, private insurance followed about 18 months later.
And here we are today.

I’d just like to know what the difference is between the so called “boogymen” that President Obama and his buds keep talking about that his enemies are supposedly eventing and the “boogymen” he and his buds are creating by say we have to have healthcare reform and socialized medicine is the only way that positive change can happen (socialized medicine is what he’s proposing, you can hang any “pretty label” on all you want to to make yourselves feel better about facsist socialized medicine but that’s what it is and it’s totally against the principals this nation was founded on)? With an issue this big, what’s the problem with stepping back and looking at ALL possible options for reform? Why does it have to be this option and NOW? Some of these “boogymen” are real. Are people so blinded by the fact we elected a man that happens to be African American for President and that he’s not God (Thankfully) and that he just a person with faults. Are his supporters (just as with President Clinton)just so swept up in the fact that he’s black that they can’t use common sense because that’s what it seems like. I mean their talking about death panels (they can dress it up and justify it all they want but it’s people playing God)and government run medicine. This IS scary! I am amazed that people can be so stupid as to think that something bad wouldn’t come out of these things and frankly I’m tired of having to get crapped on in this country because stupid people get to inact stupid ideas like this one.

Meanwhile, the same PR firms that installed Der Won — including Axelrod’s — are joining with PhRMA, the AMA and others, to stuff this pig bill down the national throat.
What’s wrong with this picture?

What should TELL EVERYONE something is the CONGRESS is not giving up their insurance for this. NO its for the surfs. You see Royalty doesnt get the same treatment.

ANGIE IN PA works for the DNC. there is no other way she is so messed up. Hows the koolaid today? Is it grape?

I’m still wondering how against socialism all these republicans were in 2003 on that pill bill. Nobody said a peep.

Posted by: Alyson | Aug 15, 2009 11:54:58 AM
I didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t do your own research, I am just saying that there are two sides to every story and vilifying the insurance companies doesn’t really get to the root of the problems. I am for insurance reform but it has to be reform that works, not based on the assumption that insurance companies are evil just like every business in this country that tries to make money is vilified lately. They are no more or less evil than banks or any other business. The govt. will be in the business of health care, there is no way to get around the fact that it will remain a business. Even if they were run by non-profits they would still be a business that has to have a bottom line to survive.

The real boogeymen are the ones who have collected lists of opponents, and are asking Americans to report anyone opposed to the health care bill.
There are very legitimate concerns about covering illegals, and abortion. The end of life discussions are not voluntary, they are mandatory.
Every country with socialized medicine rations care. Obama is on record as saying it will take about 10 years to get to a single payer system. So, please don’t insult my intelligence by saying care will not be rationed, or saying care will not be denied to our elderly, and that this bill’s purpose isn’t to push us into a single payer system.
If our President wants to convince opponents of this bill, he’s better start talking facts, and leave the boogeyman to children’s stories.
He’s still talking down to us.

Do you know how many people are dying from swine flu every day? The answer is more than we are loosing in Afghanistan but the Administration will never tell you this. How about instead of pouring more money into endless war (that is exactly what this President and the Congress are doing) we will pay for developing and producing vaccine sufficient for every American. Yes, every in this country regardless how they came here! Can this Administration pull this off? Helping real people is far more important than the politicians’ never ending crusade for grabbing more power and money.

So Oblabla’s counsel, while He launches a zillion-dollar PR campaign with PhRMA and the AMA, is that “we lower our voices”??
What’s wrong with THIS picture?

Hey ChicagoBob – More like doublehear. That’s not what he said. I heard it.

“The real boogeymen are the ones who have collected lists of opponents, and are asking Americans to report anyone opposed to the health care bill.”
SOURCES PLEASE….show exactly who is doing this and how…! or stop making things up. You know full well the WH staff did not “ask for names”….they asked for examples untrue rumors….
I’ll tell about a real program where the government is actually listening to your phone calls and looking at your emails…and it was started by Mr Bush.

We are on the edge of the CARTER years and HYPER inflation. Anyone ready for real pain? 17% home loans..

Jon said,”A president and congress who will say anything to evade questions and stack the audience with supporters and false doctors draws our questions and suspicions.
Face it… The Democrats are selling a third-rate socialist medical care system that is on par with soviet-style health care.”
Glad to see you too have jumped on the bandwagon of lies and hysteria. Enjoy the ride of fear and paranoia.
Where is any proof such ridiculous claims?

“Face it… The Democrats are selling a third-rate socialist medical care system that is on par with soviet-style health care.”
SOURCES PLEASE…or just another example of the right making stuff up….? where in the House Bill is there a plan to setup a nationalized health care system….?
Stop making stuff up folks…

For Tikbalang, and for others who think that the healthcare system is so great in these countries, MOVE! Please! Then you can actually live in these countries that “laugh at us” by the way, while they pay 200% in taxes is my understanding, ha ha, lots of laughs! Maybe then you would be able to talk from a more informed position than the apparant supposition you speak from now. Live in these countries for 2-10 years under their healthcare system then truly decide which is better because YOU’VE experienced it firsthand. But be honest about the good AND the bad. Quite honestly, I never really met anyone from other countries (and I’ve met people from these countries) who discuss it much and who have that much more going for them that I would give that much weight to what they say about the subject so why are you, especially if you haven’t lived it? I’m sure there many people who would say that these healthcare programs stink too. Again, why can’t we look at all options for change? Why does it have to be President Obama’s program or nothing? Why can’t there be a compromise or we look at the plan Senator Burr and some of his constituants have proposed that we also don’t hear much about?

where in the House Bill is there a plan to setup a nationalized health care system….? indithinker >>>>> Its incrementalism. You know that. Obama is trying to slide this public option in which will kill insurance companies because they will have to raise rates to make a profit. Then people will be tossed onto the public roll which will create rationing and the taxes WILL go SKY high because you wont have ANY option to go private. They will be out of business. Should take about 10 years.

The most important aspect of this debate is cost. Bush pushed us into a nearly one trillion dollar debt. The Comptroller of the Currency, a Republican named David Walker, resigned in protest saying the U.S. was headed for financial disaster. Obama has turned around and added to the deficit at four times the rate of Bush. Educate yourself and read some history of what happens to countries that go bankrupt. California was number one in providing social services and also had one of the greatest state debts in the country. They have now gone virtually bankrupt and are now 25th in providing social services and heading lower. Obama now wants to provide another unpaid for program he calls health reform. In the end we’ll go bankrupt and even the minimal services the poor receive will disappear.

ChicagoBon “indithinker >>>> Thats called extrapolation.”…..or it could be called outright lies…? could it not…?

I didn’t mean to imply that you didn’t do your own research, I am just saying that there are two sides to every story and vilifying the insurance companies doesn’t really get to the root of the problems. I am for insurance reform but it has to be reform that works, not based on the assumption that insurance companies are evil just like every business in this country that tries to make money is vilified lately.
***
I get it. And guess what? I agree:) NOw that I’m out of insurance and managed care, I’m self-employed and my husband owns a small business, so I do like business and money and self-reliance. I also want affordable insurance for us AND our employees, and while everyone will point to deals you can find, it really can be tough to find good insurance that covers your small pool of employees, some with some doozies when it comes to pre-existing conditios. Also, as I just said in another post (sorry to repeat) I start feeling at times that the argument is too two-sided, and neither side has the right answer. Government run doesn’t work for a lot of people, and I get why, but insurance companies — well, they need reform, and I’d love for some other option to be on the table– co-ops?

I have heard and read some of the most outrageous things over this issue, being spewed by some pretty ignorant people. The fact that they are making up scary stories rather than debating cold hard facts pretty much tells you they don’t have a leg to stand on. Have these fools even read the bill? Or are they lazily depending far-right media outlets to spoon feed them their opinions. The shrill conservative talking heads are irresponsibly trying to whip up a frenzy among those that listen to them because they know, by and large, that their audience is ignorant and susceptible to emotional manipulation.

MsEleanous: Louder voices doesn’t mean a majority of the American people agree with your opinion…and the American way is supposedly the majority rules…

their audience is ignorant and susceptible to emotional manipulation. DaveM <<<<<<< WOW read the HR3200 and can say most people have stated things correctly. PROBLEM IS DaveM the bill is really GREY. That means these boards have FAR reaching power. Power I dont want them to have. Things like attaching to your bank account. Thats in the Bill. I read it. There is a lot more and its NOT good.

ABC when are you going to stop shilling for Obama? You are running stories about anyone who speaks out against are Described by Pelosi and Hoyer as Un American, Not a day goes by you don’t have some story about how those who oppse Obama health care plan are Mob Think or Republican or Inventing Bogeymen. On at least 2 occasions your home page had 2 or more stories highlighting the Presidents view. Are their any ethic left at ABC news?
That said what he is pushing is a PLAN TO FAIL. Concurrent Review (which is what he is trying to nationalize) has already failed to control cost in the Private Insurance industry, and it will fail to control costs on a National Level as well. How about it ABC news why cant you respect that the more people read about Obama’s plan the more they understand that it is SCAM

“Face it… The Democrats are selling a third-rate socialist medical care system that is on par with soviet-style health care.”
–> The US already HAS a third-rate government-dominated clinic system that won’t bear scrutiny, and is looking to dump a bazillion MORE people into it.
There is really nothing “socialist” about what the former Democrats are trying to impose — the Potemkin “public option” has all but disappeared, the insurance companies and PhRMA are hand-in-glove with the administration.
It IS true that the Obama organization is using Stalinist methods in furtherance of “insurance reform” that does nothing at all for the dozens of millions of poor and near-poor Americans who have no insurance — and making hundreds of billions of dollars in Medicare cuts to do it, just as the Baby Boomers become eligible FOR Medicare.
If the right and left can get together to force the corporate captives in the Congress to deliver Single Payer health care, it’ll be better for everybody: the corporate elite will continue to have wonderful medical care available, but with the REST of the so-called economy disappearing, having Single Payer health care in place would be a darned good idea.

Oh and more Ramussen poll results are more people STRONGLY thing we are going in the wrong direction. PEOPLE DONT WANT THIS BILL. They want Insurance reforms which cost us nothing but legislation.

The fact is the CONGRESS and the government dont want to be in this plan SO WHY SHOULD WE???

Isn’t Mr. Obama doing the same thing in creating a bogeyman known as the Insurance companies.
Stephen >>>>>> EXACTLY and lets not forget Doctors as well. Obama always TALKS out of both sides of his mouth.

How can we have an honest debate on Healthcare without tort reform? How can we have an honest discussion about cost when every entitlement program the government provides is bankrupt? Isn’t it true that government as competitor in private industry will lead to the end of some insurance companies forcing people out of their existing plans. Why are you, Mr. Obama, spreading misinformation claiming that the AARP is endorsing the current legislation when they are not?

Then Jon hit the delete button. That other guy deeply offended me over so many things it would take too long to list.
Gawd you guys are the party of whiners.
“Heeee sent me annn e-mailllll.”

I hope Obama continues his never ending campaign, shows up on TV everyday, and has monthly press conferences.
He is rivaling Joe as being a huge gaffe machine.
And why not put Michelle out there everyday to sell Obamacare?
He keeps her hidden for fear of the public souring on her too.

The Electorial College was set up because back in the dark ages those farmers in the middle of nowhere probably didn’t get much news, and they could not be trusted to know what is best for them.
NOBODY cared that I didn’t want that stinking war. Are having a hard time understanding how this works? That whole concept of it can’t always be your way lady?

The bogeyman was Obama’s friend when he needed the stimulus bill passed.
He doesn’t hesitate to use scare tactics.
Obama has no credibility left except among starry-eyed kool-aid drinkers.
But I’m sure the lawyers, CEO’s, PhRma, lobbyist still love him.

You guys on the right are afraid of everything.
I know, it’s a scary, scary world and everybody is out to get you. Yeah, be afraid of “that list” now. Nevermind The Patriot Act let em all spy on gosh knows what.
Paaalleeeeeeesssee, you do nothing but repeat things that have been debunked.

So basically they are telling bureaucrats they can recommend suicides and not violate the law

“But I’m sure the lawyers, CEO’s, PhRma, lobbyist still love him.”
NOBODY loves Him — they love that key to the Treasury He’s been passing around to the corporations.

It’s BO’s fish story…. he can make it as big as he likes….. but it sure does smelllll

Hey BO…. when are you going to apologize about lying about AARP support of your plan (that you don’t really have)

MisElaneious: Aware of the electoral college, Bush won under a minority vote…we send our elected congress and senate to vote for us…We’re a republic not an actual democracy as the Greeks…

“Have you even read any of these PLANS… that you want to take credit for…”
He talks about “his” plan as though the numerous bills in Congress are just red herrings . . . which they are.

People who want the corrupt, insurance companies out of the American Health SYSTEM, should go on the streets. The NHS IS THE BEST THING THE GOVERNMENT HAVE DONE FOR THE PEOPLE IN EUROPE AND THE UK, NO GOVERNMENT WOULD DEAR REMOVE IT!!! EVERY DECENT AND DEVELOPED COUNTRY HAVE FREE HEALTH CARE FRANCE AND GERMAN BEING THE BEST, BRITAIN IN MY OPINION IS BETTER THEN BOTH COUNTRIES. BEST HEALTH IN THE WORLD BY UN
1) FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL FRANCE
2) FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL GERMANY
8) FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL GREAT BRITAIN
38)AMERICAN HEALTH CARE NOT FREE FOR ALL
BY THE INDIAN BEAT THE USA IN HEALTH CARE……

reprovemedia, You said “BO is in full campaign mode….”
Barry was elected by the voters of Illinois to the Senate, and he IMMEDIATELY began his campaign for President.
Barry was elected by the Electoral College to the Office of the Presidency, and he IMMEDIATELY began his re-election campaign.
This clown doesn’t REALLY work, he’s all talk and no walk. His entire planning horizon right now is 3.5 years, or more specifically, NOVEMBER 2012. If he can make past the first Tuesday, and be re-elected, than he’s accomplished EVERYTHING he set out to accomplish.
That he doesn’t understand the reluctance of the MAJORITY of Americans to his Cadillac health care plan is proof positive that he doesn’t have the experience or aptitude to be President.
Congress will try to cover for him, but he ain’t gonna last through 2012.

The bottom line is this– the bill in the house right now calls for a commission to determine what the best health care for you is. This should be done by the boards of various medical specialties.
So- yes– there ARE panels that will determine if you get what you need…
Look:
H.R. 3200 on page 502 establishes the “Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research”
The Secretary shall establish within the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality a Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research to conduct, support, and synthesize research with respect to the outcomes, effectiveness, and appropriateness of health care services and procedures in order to identify the manner in which diseases, disorders, and other health conditions can most effectively and appropriately be prevented, diagnosed, treated, and managed clinically.
and are you concerned about privacy?
on page 503–
The Center (for Comparative Effectiveness Research) may secure directly from any department or agency of the United States information necessary to enable it to carry out this section. Upon request of the Center, the head of that department or agency shall furnish that information to the Center on an agreed upon schedule.
This bill needs to be reduced to about 200 pages– real reform that makes the market more free and makes insurance easier to get and keep.

What is really scary is the extreme far right getting involve, it’s nothing to do with reform in the health care system in the US, but their hate for President Obama skin colour. I believe Mrs Pauline Pain, is a outrageous liar Everything she said about the NHS IS A BIG LIE people in the Britain, are laughing at her and her vile lies. The lies that have been told about the British health care system (National Health Service) NHS can be cheeked. I am personally making a video about people that have benefited from the NHS. Also there are thousand of American over here in Europe, asking for free health care because it to expensive back the USA.Posted by: Pauline Green | Aug 15, 2009 1:18:02 PM
Ms. Green, you hit the nail on the head. Much of the discussion taking place now has little to nothing to do with healthcare reform( just read many of the posts here and listen to what they scream at townhalls). Many of these people are mad because their party lost the election, they hate Obama and want to see him fail or they are ig no rant drones, listening to talk radio (whose hosts/guests are getting paid lots of money by the insurance industry to mislead them).
Probably, less than 1 out 10 know anything at all about the British or Canadian health care system other than what Glenn Beck/Fox News or Rush Limbaugh has told them. And, the sad part is that the vast majority of them are exactly the ones who would benefit the most from Healthcare Reform.
Really pathetic!!

Obama, we’ve all now come to see the boogyman… and sorry to say, but he’s YOU!!!

What is really scary is the extreme far right getting involve, it’s nothing to do with reform in the health care system in the US, but their hate for President Obama skin colour. I believe Mrs Pauline Pain, is a outrageous liar
Posted by: Pauline Green | Aug 15, 2009 1:18:02 PM
///////////////////////////////////
That’s very odd. Did the majority of Americans hate Obama when they voted for him? You can’t have it both ways.
If he’s hated because of his skin color, then he wouldn’t be President.
The opposition to the heath care bill is so much more than a fringe group. That’s another attempt to marganalize and silence the opposition. Many conservative Democrats do not support this bill.
I’m afaid I’ve never heard of Pauline Palin.
This is just grasping at straws.

Laughing_All_The_Way wrote: “That he doesn’t understand the reluctance of the MAJORITY of Americans to his Cadillac health care plan is proof positive that he doesn’t have the experience or aptitude to be President.”
36% does not a majority make.
‘A new Gallup Poll finds that about the same percentage (35%) would tell their congressional representative to vote for a new healthcare reform bill when Congress reconvenes in September as say they would tell their representative to vote against such a bill (36%). The rest (29%) have no opinion either way at this time.’

Laughing_all_the_way: We shall see, won’t we? 2010, don’t you get it, you have a younger more liberal and multicultural demographics in the mix…the republicans don’t have their vote to begin with…it’s the nature of the times…

If the bill is passed, U.S. plan will compete with other plans…private insurers will be forced to take on pre-existing conditions…hmm, how many companies would survive this? No wonder the registrants of lobbyists is so high…and they vie for both the dems and repubs…do you folks really think this bill will be passed?

I’m an American ex-pat living in London. I’ll tell you the American health care system is NOT the best BY FAR. I get great care here in the UK. I urge Americans to ignore the naysayers to a new health care system. The current system is awful and bloated with excessive unnecessary expenses. The reality is that great health care can be delivered to more people for less money. Being ill should not break your pocketbook. The US is the only 1st world country without national health care. There are no boogeymen…it’s all in your head. Come out of your shell, get your head out of hte sand of the special interests and insurance companies. God Bless.

Obama will say almost anything to get permission to spend the initial $1 Trillion dollars opening the door to further trillions in spending for his healthcare plan. This money would go to directly to the government and all his buddies in the healthcare, insurance and drug making industries. Do you realize medicaid and medicare is already $106 Trillion dollars in debt? Thats number is 100 times the national debt! Considering the government pays $400 for a hammer and $20,000 for a toilet what do you think they will pay a contractor who does a surgery, or a medical supplier? No wonder some of the companies who are pro-healthcare – they are the ones salivating to get the cushy government contract.

Why didn’t the clowns at ABC include Katie Gibson’s story in the article?
O”bama was introduced by Katie Gibson, a Montana woman and recurrent cancer survivor, who told a harrowing tale of her experiences trying to get and keep insurance after her diagnosis.
At one stage, Gibson said, an insurance company arbitrarily raised her deductable from $5,000 to $25,000 per year, making coverage unaffordable.
She was subsequently able to find other coverage through an employer sponsored program, only to be dropped by that insurer several months after being covered.
The worst part, Gibson said, was that “at the exact time I was incredibly ill and should have been spending my limited energy on my health,” she was forced to spend much of her “limited energy” trying to address her insurance situation.”

It’s so totally ironic that the far right, the bible-thumping, god is on our side conservative far right is associating Obama’s health care plan with Hitler. Why, if they’d stop all the thumping and crack open their good book, they’d see that Jesus Christ (and not Hitler) would be behind such a plan to care for the poor as well as the wealthy. It was the teaching of Jesus (and written in the bible) that called for all of to care for, to respect and love. So ironic, so sad they lost their teachings and gave in to hate.

What makes you think a cancer patient will get better care from a government run insurance program? First of all it doesnt even exist yet! Secondly there will be less insurance companies to pick from and even more beaureaucrats to decide if you get care or not! At least now people have choices!

More White House propaganda and payoffs to campaign backers and cronies on the way!
From Bloomberg today:
“Two firms that received $343.3 million to handle advertising for Barack Obama’s White House run last year have profited from his top priority as president by taking on his push for health-care overhaul.
One is AKPD Message and Media, the Chicago-based firm headed by DAVID AXELROD until he left last Dec. 31 to serve as a senior adviser to the president. Axelrod was Obama’s top campaign strategist and is now helping sell the health-care plan. The other firm is Washington-based GMMB Campaign Group, where partner Jim Margolis was also an Obama strategist.”
Change!

Stacey:”What part of $38 TRILLION in unfunded mandates don’t you understand? MEDICARE AND MEDICAID ARE BROKE!! ”
They are paying all their bills, will have no problem doing so for the next decade, and can easily increase their revenue and reduce their costs to continue to do so indefinately.
What part of “private insurance would be catastrophic in lieu of Medicare” do YOU not understand? Do you think any private insurance would be willing to insure the elderly, even the few without pre-existing conditions?
You’re throwing a lot of rocks trying to tear down a successful program. What are you proposing it be replaced with?

Nat78 – Well when the current Administration proposes really bad policies, what do you expect?

Obama would rather blame anyone than admit his own responsibility for the failure of Obamacare.
He dumped this into the lap of Pelosi, Reid, and Congress with their horrible
approval ratings.
Obama, with his enormous ego, thought hc reform would pass in just a few weeks.
Ram is through like he did the stimulus bill–dumb Americans won’t notice.
Every mistake he has made is because of his arrogance and the mistaken notion that he had a mandate to do anything he wanted with America.

Besides Medicare being almost bankrupt, how will the current system of doctors and hospitals that are mostly losing money going to handle 40 million more insured looking for services.The single payer system from other countries that we are suppossed to emulate all complain doctors and and hospitals do not make enough money to survive. The public option will surely put the private insurers under when Congress makes the public option cheaper at the request of voters so Congress can win votes. It happened with both SS and medicare and those programs are in bad shape. What program has COngress run efficiently and within budget?

Don’t believe in the bogeyman, trust Obama.
By the way Big Brother wants your email address.

No boogeyman.
Just a government that wants all of your private info.
And don’t forget to snitch on your neighbor.

jhw539: “They [Medicare/Medicaid] are paying all their bills, will have no problem doing so for the next decade, and can easily increase their revenue and reduce their costs to continue to do so indefinately.”
They’re paying their bills with DEBT. Is that how you pay your bills? Revenues? LOL. From where? The government doesn’t produce anything, it only consumes. Tax revenues are currently WAY DOWN. Bureaucratic costs keep rising. You can’t keep a system afloat with ever-increasing debt. It WILL eventually collapse (subprime lending disaster, anyone?).
There are MANY proposals on the table for making highly competitive multi-tiered private healthcare plans available nationally, from high-end plans to catastrophic, including plans that mandate coverage. A series of small regulatory reforms, understandable to the public and implemented thoughtfully over time, can accomplish this.
We need reform, not a rushed 1,000-page bloated monstrosity written by boneheads like Pelosi and Waxman to do a wholesale overhaul our system.
The funny thing everyone is missing is that Obama doesn’t even care what’s in the bill. He hasn’t even read it. If they deliver a bill to him, he’ll sign it. He couldn’t care less what most Americans want. His goal is to sign a bill to satisfy his own ego. The man is an empty suit, a total fraud.

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
Thomas Jefferson
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned – this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson
An enemy generally says and believes what he wishes.
Thomas Jefferson
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
Liberty is to the collective body, what health is to every individual body. Without health no pleasure can be tasted by man; without liberty, no happiness can be enjoyed by society.
Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
Never spend your money before you have earned it.
Thomas Jefferson
Our greatest happiness does not depend on the condition of life in which chance has placed us, but is always the result of a good conscience, good health, occupation, and freedom in all just pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson
So confident am I in the intentions, as well as wisdom, of the government, that I shall always be satisfied that what is not done, either cannot, or ought not to be done.
Thomas Jefferson
That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.
Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
The republican is the only form of government which is not eternally at open or secret war with the rights of mankind.
Thomas Jefferson
To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.
Thomas Jefferson
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine
Is it not a species of blasphemy to call the New Testament revealed religion, when we see in it such contradictions and absurdities.
Thomas Paine
It is not a God, just and good, but a devil, under the name of God, that the Bible describes.
Thomas Paine
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
Thomas Paine
One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.
Thomas Paine
That government is best which governs least.
Thomas Paine
The strength and power of despotism consists wholly in the fear of resistance.
Thomas Paine
To say that any people are not fit for freedom, is to make poverty their choice, and to say they had rather be loaded with taxes than not.
Thomas Paine

IT appears that MSM hasn;t been worried about medicare or SS costs since Obama took office. In the latest article that MSM seemed to worry about published by MSNBC in 2005. Maybe they don’t want Obama to look bad since the campaigned for him: “A looming Medicare shortage is seven times the size of the one that Social Security faces and nearly four times the entire federal debt. It is not being addressed by President Bush and Congress, and, to some, that is just as well. While Social Security is expected to exhaust its reserves in 2042, Medicare should deplete the trust fund financing its hospital benefits in 2019, the latest forecasts show.”
Social Security, which Bush has hoisted atop his domestic agenda, is $3.7 trillion short of what it will need for benefits over the next 75 years, under the latest federal projections. Medicare, the health care program for the elderly, must find an estimated $27.8 trillion.
By 2018, Social Security is on track to start paying more annually to recipients than it collects in payroll taxes — an ominous tipping point that Medicare reached last year.”

all one needs to know about the Republican hypocrisy and fraud concerning heath care reform is contained here….. when faced with facts and logic.. Republicans can only drool ..
Lawrence O’Donnell interviewed Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) in a devastating segment on “Hardball” on Friday, implying that the conservative congressman was a hypocrite for opposing a public option yet refusing to cut government-run health-care programs such as Medicare and Social Security.
O’Donnell repeatedly pushed the conservative Congressman to give a straight answer about what federal entitlements he would cut. Culberson refused to give a response for several minutes before finally admitting that he would have voted for Social Security and Medicare despite the fact that they are government-run health-care systems.
O’Donnell kept pressing Culberson to explain how he can defend Medicare and Social Security since they’re government-run health care programs, otherwise known as “socialism.”
Culberson, who calls himself a “Jeffersonian Republican,” said he supports Medicare and Social Security but denied that they’re socialistic.
That prompted O’Donnell to ask Culberson: “If Medicare is not socialism, why don’t we just delete the over-65 part of Medicare and make it available to everyone? What’s your argument against that?”
Again, Culberson refused to give a straight answer and complained about O’Donnell’s persistence.
O’Donnell replied: “I don’t want you to spin your time away here.”
Culberson later admitted that he would have voted for Social Security in 1935 and “probably” would have voted for Medicare in 1965.
An exasperated O’Donnell asked the Congressman: “You know that Medicare is a completely government-run health care system and yet you’re saying you would have voted for it.”
Culberson’s response: “Yes”
By the end, O’Donnell accused Culberson of hypocrisy and more:
“You lie to America about the evils of government-run health care because you people, not one of you liars about government health care is willing to repeal Medicare, to stand up and be consistent… ‘I hate government health care so I want to repeal Medicare’… That is a lie that you perpetrate every day.” “

Free health care is not free. Americans will be paying double taxes with Obamacare and that is not just the rich. In England the taxes are horrendous and EVERYONE pays seventeen and a half percent VAT tax. SO tell me what is free?

“I lived in France for a few years in the 90′s and found the hospitals and healthcare to be much better than here. Despite the fact that a nation we spend a far higher percentage of GDP on healthcare than France.”
France severely limits damage awards for medical malpractice. And I don’t believe they’re spending billions on healthcare for millions of illegal citizens. They tend to deport them (as should we).

I would not believe Obama if he were the last person on Earth. He is taking us down a dark path that will cost us a fortune.

“Lawrence O’Donnell interviewed Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas)”
Who needs waterboarding when you have at the ready a looney the likes of O’Donnell?
In Looney Larry’s defense, he is just angry because he has no irons in the fire with entertainment industry, where he belongs.

it’s also pretty illustrative of the republican ‘just say no’ general lunacy crowd.. that a man felt the need to bring a pistol to a debate on health care reform…
guess he was afraid of people talking about issues.
his ‘intellect’ was on display,..for the whole world all to see…..

Chuck – to add to your point, I would like to mention that Canada does not offer “free healthcare” to visitors. When you’re visiting them, you don’t have that benefit. Unlike the US, which seeks to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens. In fact, they are exempt from paying for any of it (see Section 152, pages 50 to 51, and page 170 for the exemptions for non-resident aliens).

Now be honest with yourself people. Aren’t you having just a bit of regret for having voted for Obama?

“and 2010 elections would make that known how the American public feels” By then, it will be too late. Once this monstrosity is in place, there is no going back. We are doomed to reap the consequences.

Posted by: jcarob
you post proves my point, ignore the facts about what Rep. John Culberson (R-Texas) said, and couldn’t bring himself to say….
republicans… gotta love ‘em..
we’re at the point now with republican insanity that if Obama announced a cure for cancer had been invented, republicans would claim it’s a socialist threat, and say, ‘don’t interfere or take away our right to have cancer’.

So what would I do to fix these problems you say??? How about reforming medical marijuana drug laws for starters (i.e. make weed legal and tax it to pay for new programs)? It still would not be legal for unlicensed citizens to grow it. Maybe make cigarettes illegal or only available to those 21 and over like booze? Wouldnt that show real concern for Americans health rather than greed for their money? Also couldnt we regulate the price of healthcare insurance, the cost of drugs and doctors visits without passing a Trillion dollar plus-costing bill (you know medicaid and medicare are $106 trillion in debt already)? No that would make too much sense wouldnt it? Hmm what else? Stop giving people $4500 to buy new cars that they would buy eventually anyway? Stop unnecessary bailouts and government spending in general? Get back the money we gave to GM and banks because they lied about being insolvent? Most of us realize that politicians lobbyists congressman and senators are only out to make money. They dont really care about our health. Duh! Its a no brainer. Democrats only know how to spend spend spend other peoples money. Didnt their Daddies ever teach them to pay their debts and save money for a rainy day? Why not pay off some of the countries debt while their at it?

“He is taking us down a dark path that will cost us a fortune.”
–> Cost a fortune to the citizenry in general, while enriching the drug and insurance corporations, AND wrecking Medicare for the demographic bulge of Baby Boomers — that freedom-loving “nineties” generation against whom Obama railed during the campaign (and with whom He went on to fill His flim-flam post-democratic administration).

Toni and George, I also hear great things about health care in France and the UK. No system is without problems, but I really do wish we could weigh out the pros and cons of public options and single payer objectively, honestly, without loaded language on either side.
Lori wrote, “If the United States of America want to turn Federal and have the Government control things, then let the States who wish not to take part form their own country.” Lori, isn’t Texas its own country? Just kidding. It just seems like it sometimes:)
Ells bells, ferrari and others. So, I complained about the insurance industry and mentioned Wendell Potter. Then I watched an interview on CSPAN with Pres. & CEO Karen Ignagni of America’s Health Insurance Plans. To be fair, I wanted to mention the interview because everything she says sounds pretty good. I’m still skeptical and want to check out some things, but it’s interesting and worth watching and thinking about.
Jimmy Spearmint, Katie Gibson’s story is compelling. I’m glad you mentioned. The sad thing is her experience is not uncommon.
jhw wrote: “What part of “private insurance would be catastrophic in lieu of Medicare” do YOU not understand? Do you think any private insurance would be willing to insure the elderly, even the few without pre-existing conditions?
You’re throwing a lot of rocks trying to tear down a successful program. What are you proposing it be replaced with?”
Excellent questions. While there have been issues with Medicare and ellsbells is correct when she describes the way it influenced cost payment and containment issues and provider billing and premiums and managed care, it is a successful program put in place to serve a useful and good purpose. One thing that gets my goat is that budget experts have known for a long while that Medicare is on an unsustainable long term financial path, no? Spending has been rising faster than GDP. BUT in 2003, if you all remember that, the Bush admin repeatedly fudged on the cost of the drug benefit to get it passed, and President Bush himself applied pressure to get reluctant conservatives to vote for the program. He did nothing to fix the problems those who voted for him are complaining about regarding Medicare! Because reforming Medicare is an important part of getting health costs under control , Bush coulda, shoulda come up with a comprehensive health reform or Medicare reform plan. Instead we do these thing that fix nothing long term. The whole situation reminds me of Dr. Britton’s quote: “I compare this to really, almost like a health Katrina. For years, people warned that the levees were weak and would not sustain a cat 4 or a cat 5 storm. What nobody could tell you is when the moment would come that there was a stressor that the levees would break.”
So, like others, I’m really glad we’re taking this on. No regrets on voting for Obama for those who like to imagine I’d have regrets. I don’t see the situation being better under other possibilities for Prez. How would the financial mess or reform debate be different, or more on point, “better”? (People who say that seem t be still sore over the election.) Kicking the debate and reform down the road with more quick fixes wouldn’t do our children any good.

jcarob: Although I voted for the president, I don’t always agree with what he has to offer, I voted for him because I felt he had the best interest of most Americans…but I must say, he is virulent on this issue, and has a lot of guts…I like some aspects of this bill, but the hesitancy lies allowing the government option into the picture…but as an American seeing costs escalating and working in health care and seeing first hand the fear and anxiety people have in paying for these bills is an added health risk to hypertension, stroke, aggravated diabetes onset and so forth…

“I don’t see the situation being better under other possibilities for Prez. How would the financial mess or reform debate be different, or more on point, “better”? (People who say that seem t be still sore over the election.)”
Hope and Change. What a joke.

“By then [2010 elections for Congress], it will be too late. Once this monstrosity is in place, there is no going back.”
–> This is probably the most vital comment on this or any board.
The present situation shows as well as anything could that voting makes precious little difference in what the parties’ “leadership”, in lockstep with whoever’s running the White House, is willing to do.
Voting out most incumbents in 2010 is a great idea, but stopping Obama’s ill-named “reform” is necessary NOW.
How progressives and tea-baggers can get together in a HURRY to accomplish this — before the Axelrod/Obama/PhRMA/AMA joint public-relations blitz puts an end to public participation — I’m not sure, but I THINK the answer is to DEMAND Single Payer health care, Medicare for All.
This is mostly a CLASS conflict — the corporate uber-rich, who own Obama, against EVERYBODY else — not an ideological one between un-rich Americans of “right” and “left”.

I’m really not sure why we get a point by point rundown of the President’s talking points, and naught but a BTW link to Orrin Hatch.

threeriverscrossing – I’m not lying. You are the one who said people were opposing healthcare. And I have made plenty of suggestions on many threads on this site, to the White House, to my Senators & my House Representative on how healthcare should truly be reformed. What they are proposing now isn’t reform, it’s a power grab and just more of the same failed policy as Medicare.

Overcharge – the Federal government doesn’t run the post office.

Bottom line: I am not saying healtcare should not be reformed (along with drug laws) but Obama’s plan is not the way! It will just create more debt and not reduce debt or costs. When the government provided healthcare is not suitable you will seek out private healthcare anyway – at what cost and what will still be available? I have no idea.

So, I followed the link above to check out what Orrin Hatch had to say, to find only three short sentences about the Senator in a three page article about the President. No wonder Republicans are getting slammed for having nothing to offer in the healthcare debate!

Hope and Change. What a joke.
Posted by: Bill of Goods | Aug 15, 2009
***
I think of it as guts and improved world opinion — and a better direction than the road we’ve been traveling on for eight years.

ellsbells930: I’ve worked in for profit health care facilities, finding equipment that functions properly can be a feat in itself to perform my job safely…it’s about profits, not the patient…

Medicare is successful. The problem is, like everything else, the cost of care is also affecting medicare. Medicare premiums rise just like any insurance. But compare it to premiums you would pay for private insurance and it doesn’t compare. Added to that, the cost of medicaid and the millions that have no insurance. Having coverage for everyone would eradicate the need for medicaid. Though I don’t think we will ever have true reform without universal health care. But at this point, reform of the health insurance industry would be a good thing. They should be held accountable. and explain to me how Aetna made a 45 billion dollar profit. And anyone, even the person that thinks they have good health care coverage, needs to investigate a little further.They may be surprised at what they find.

“Notice that Obama and company will not even entertain the thought that they should not pass their 1000 page healthcare proposal – and instead seek to regulate the cost of healthcare, drugs and hospital stays in some other way. Thats because it wouldnt make them money.”
Exactamundo. The endlessly-purring Obama organization and its corporate comrades are getting ready to bull____ the American people insensible in a public-relations blitz for “reform” … rather than DO any actual reform on the insurance and pharmaceutical corporations who fund the campaigns of our Single Payer-protected politicians.

It’s in the bill. I have downloaded it and read many parts of it. I was also a nurse who worked in health care for many years. I don’t understand why you are denying what is written in the bill… it says “shall”. Shall means must in a bill of law… it doesn’t mean “maybe”. It also says that if the patient’s medical condition worsens, then “end of life counseling” may be more frequent. The bill also says that if a patient’s condition gets worse, then a decision will be made whether to continue treatment or end antibiotics, nutrition and artificial hydration. Nice, huh? Have you read the bill?

“That why we have amendments.”
Great idea. We’ll have a 1000+ page piece of legislation that nobody has bothered to even read (John Conyers) with even more stuff taked on. What could go wrong?

It’s in the bill. I have downloaded it and read many parts of it. I was also a nurse who worked in health care for many years. I don’t understand why you are denying what is written in the bill… it says “shall”. Shall means must in a bill of law… it doesn’t mean “maybe”. It also says that if the patient’s medical condition worsens, then “end of life counseling” may be more frequent. The bill also says that if a patient’s condition gets worse, then a decision will be made whether to continue treatment or end antibiotics, nutrition and artificial hydration. Nice, huh? Have you read the bill?
Posted by: Fran | Aug 15, 2009 4:06:05 PM
What’s in the bill? Which bill are you referring to (there are five) and what provision of the bill are you referring to?

“(By the way I have very good health care, and I am in no fear whatsoever of losing it.)”
–> Gosh, is it . . . Senator Arlen Spector?
The well-provided-for have little to fear — for the moment — from the Obama organization. What the REST of the population — the insecure wage slaves and the already-dispossessed — stand to lose with this bogus “reform” is the POSSIBILITY of actual reform.

The change people wanted was to regain the wealth creation for its citizens that made the United States the world’s greatest country. The change Obama and his cronies want is to change the United States into a welfare state; that wasn’t explained to the voters by the mainstream media or Obama. The voters who were shamelessly fooled into voting for Obama’s “change” now have buyer’s remorse.

The “bogeyman” doesn’t have to be invented . . . he’s quite real and his name is Obama.

Fran: According to the president’s bill, one has the option of how to proceed with their death…Living wills should be mandatory…

The post office isn’t “run” by the government. Just like the railroad. They are considered government jobs. And they follow FDA regulations. But the government doesn’t run the railroad. And the same applies to teachers and any other agency that’s regulated by the federal government.And perhaps the same principle can be applied to the health care industry.Regulated dosen’t mean “run”. I

Wasn’t he saying this same stuff during the election?? “They’re going to try to scare you” When will you people wake up to this guy’s BS??!?? He’s nothing but a con-man.

This healtcare reform is just one more move toward socialism. Let me tell you why it is a bad idea. Socialism is immoral because socialism violates one of the most basic moral principles: “Thou shall not steal.” Socialism is nothing more than organized, legalized stealing.
Any law that permits the government, through force, to take money from one and give it to another is just stealing.
IT IS NOT OK TO STEAL FROM PEOPLE WHO EARN A LOT OF MONEY AND GIVE IT TO THOSE WHO DID NOT EARN IT. ALSO, IT IS NOT OK FOR THE MAJORITY TO STEAL FROM THE MINORITY.
As I stated many years ago:
“How is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.
Then abolish this law without delay, for it is not only an evil itself, but also it is a fertile source for further evils because it invites reprisals. If such a law … is not abolished immediately, it will spread, multiply, and develop into a system.”
60% of US workers pay no tax. Yes, NO TAX. Over 40% pay NO TAX plus the Govt sends them a check called a tax credit. Where did this money come from? The people who paid taxes.
Obama wants to steal money from the wealthy and give it to others in the form of tax credits, rebates, stimulus checks, health care, etc. He calls it redistribution of the wealth. I call it stealing.
For more info google Frederic Bastiat, The Law.

To politicojunqui: Your fact is inaccurate. The 50,000 uninsured Americans is inflated. Obama failed to validate this. The CDC says otherwise… many of those numbers are not Americans, but illegal aliens. Plus another portion of that alleged figure are people who make $75,000 or more and choose to not pay for insurance.
I was a democrat for most of my adult life, ( I am a senior citizen on Medicare and Tricare now)… and I switched parties probably 10 years ago after I realized the democrats don’t want to bring people out of their poverty, just make them more comfortable in it. Personal responsibility and independence is not part of their ideology. I was conservative in my thinking as far as being pro-life and anti-euthanasia, but I believed in helping the underdog. However, I realized that just giving handouts and entitlements did not encourage people to become more motivated to help improve their own circumstances. There is a saying, “Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, and you feed him for life.”
I am okay if the government wants to expand Medicaid to cover those who are involuntarily uninsured, so I don’t see why the whole system has to be changed to accommodate the 4% of “Americans” who are uninsured.
Plus people have to be willing to change their unhealthy life styles… like giving up smoking, overeating, drinking too heavily, etc.. Bet you that would bring the health care costs down immediately and vastly.

“Why Sarah Palin is right (again):
The alleged journalists who are quickly resorting to the claims that Sarah Palin is “lying” and that her claims have been “debunked” are proving that once again, they lack even the most basic skills necessary to be a competent, ethical journalist.”
Neither Sarah Palin’s evil death panels nor the Oregon Health Plan are found anywhere in HR 3200. If you can find any such passages, please cut and paste them here. Thank you.

ryan
You are right.
Now that Obama is back on the campaign trail he’s using some of his old material.
Obama’s famous line–they’re going to try and scare you because I don’t look like the other presidents and I have a funny name.
I guess Obama figured it worked well enough to get elected so why not use a variation of that speech now.
I don’t think as many will fall for it this time. The independents that got BO elected are finally awake.

why doesn’t Obama actually reform healthcare instead of just making money for his lawyer, drug company, IT, and even insurance company friends/donors? He makes no mention of any tort reform. He wants to make it mandatory for US citizens -not illegals of course- to give their money to private, for-profit insurance companies. And, likely for political purposes, he wants a political appointee he calls a “czar” to have access to a centralized database containing ALL of your personal and health information. This Orwellian database would be very useful in political blackmail, for fraud if hackers hack into it, or even for framing people in crimes!

“I have no doubt in my mind that all this is about is providing health insurance for those who don’t or won’t work and are already on welfare.”
Don’t look now, but there hasn’t been any “welfare” in the US for years. Many of the poor ARE Medicaid recipients — they get criminally-crappy “care” (mostly psycho-meds and pain pills) at non-profit clinics whose operations, admissible procedures, tests, and medications are mostly under government control.
What Obama’s “reform” would do, among other things, is to force millions MORE of the un-rich onto Medicaid. This is too bad for those who will be forced to get “care” that way, but would be a HUGE windfall for non-profit hustlers — every little clinic has an executive director, a controller, and G-d knows what else, all at executive salary levels — defrocked and retired doctors, and for pharmaceutical corporations.
–> As for “don’t or won’t work”, there are tens of thousands more Americans who don’t have employment EVERY week, and that’s the way it’s going to keep going. Be careful what you wish on the poor — it might be you, or someone you care about, by next week or next year.
Ever wonder why Der Won didn’t come up with a public works program, instead of throwing several TRILLION dollars to the financial corporations? People SHOULD wonder …

In the townhall meetings the public has discovered that the politicians who will vote on the health care reform bill don’t even know what is in it. For example, Senator Spector was shocked shocked to learn the bill made insurance coverage mandatory with a penalty on anyone who did not want to be covered. Spector “In a free society, if people absolutely insist on not being covered, that’s ultimately going to be their choice.”
Had Specter done his job, he would already know about Section 401 of the House version of ObamaCare. King Banaian read it over a week ago and highlighted this particular portion in order to make clear that the bill does indeed impose individual mandates and assigns penalties for non-compliance:
In General- Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:
Subpart a. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
‘Subpart A–Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
‘Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
Sec. 59b. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–
‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘(b) Limitations-
‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM-
‘(A) IN GENERAL- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.
‘(B) APPLICABLE NATIONAL AVERAGE PREMIUM-
‘(i) IN GENERAL- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the ‘applicable national average premium’ means, with respect to any taxable year, the average premium (as determined by the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) for self-only coverage under a basic plan which is offered in a Health Insurance Exchange for the calendar year in which such taxable year begins.
‘(ii) FAILURE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR MORE THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL- In the case of any taxpayer who fails to meet the requirements of subsection (e) with respect to more than one individual during the taxable year, clause (i) shall be applied by substituting ‘family coverage’ for ‘self-only coverage’.
2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as–
‘(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to
‘(B) the entire taxable year.
Why doesn’t Specter know about this part of ObamaCare? Shouldn’t he have educated himself on the particulars of the “reform” before attempting to defend it in town-hall meetings? More critically, would Specter commit to opposing a bill that explicitly rejects his stated standard? If not, why not?
Read the bill, Senator. Inform yourself rather than spread “disinformation,” or Linda Douglass may have to track you at the White House’s Snitch Central.

When George W. Bush was President, he and the Republicans passed laws based on their political philosophy, like the war in Iraq. By the way that was an illegal war. Nonetheless, they attacked Iraq and Bush signed several bills into law which the Democrats did not agree with. So, now we have a new President from the Democratic Party. Let Mr. Barack Obama sign into law what he and the Democrats think is good for the country. Republicans, you were in power 8 years. You destroyed this country. Go away. And let us clean up the mess.

Sometimes ‘inaction’ is better than wrong action. Look at the Iraq war as an example if you are hard-core lefty. The cost of inaction is irrelevant Mr. Obama. You can still try to reform the price of insurance, doctors care, drugs and medicines, hospital stays and medical care without passing your $1 Trillion dollar, pork-laden healthcare proposal.

to sosupernova: you are correct and we need laws reigning in private companies with their databases (often these companies then provide the data BACK to the government. NSA etc outsources much data-mining and even surveillence to get around “rules”). But ultimately the company might have the data but excepting id fraud then can’t punish you like the government could. Obama’s Orwellian dream is worse because instead of many companies he wants to centralize, and control, ALL this information in to the hands of his personal “czar”. A political appointee. No Obama adherents might not complain but remember it could be another Bush in a few years who would then control ALL your personal information (health, perscription, dna, bloodtype, mental health, sexual history, drug/alcohol use, doctor visits, er visits, allergies, etc.) And this also would destroy doctor-patient privledge. And would Obama’s czar link this personal data up to the government’s other databases?

francis, President Bush did not get his way on every issue. For example Social Security Reform and the extension of the tax cuts. The people have every right to protect their interests and speak out against a government take over of health care which will directly effect their lives. What I do not understand is why the left is so enanmored with the concept of a centralized authoritarian government when history has proven time and time again that such a template has invariably resulted in human misery and enslavement. American has been a beacon of hope for the world when a revolutionary war was fought to overthrow the Bristish Monarchy. President Obama seems intent on moving the US towards a much more centralized authoritarian form of government which is why so many Americans are leery of his health care reform proposals. Too much power in government has never been a good thing as history has told us time and time again.

The so called “boogy man” of “death panels” is not so far fetched if government gains control of the health care dollar. The fact is that in order to reign in costs, government will have no choice but to make decisions on how to spend the health care dollar. This means that poltitical considerations will rule the day which will mean that the less politically connected groups will be out of luck. People don’t want their hard earned money confiscated by the government so that they no longer have any free will when it comes to what to spend their money on. Stop Obamacare keep America free.

The TORT reform inclusion into the health reform discussion is proof that talk radio is guiding the thoughts of some posters here. That idea comes directly from them as does most of what we read from the oppositon. If I didn’t have any ideas of my own, I’d shut up, read, listen and try to learn something (Take a hint). Repeating Limbaugh and Hannity shows that the issue is too complex for you to construct ideas of your own.

Obama’s campaign and first 200 days proves this president and his ad man adviser Axelrod will say anything to sell his radical agenda. Spread the wealth! Spread the blame! Spread the pay offs!
Reform is needed. Not radical change railroaded through Congress before we know what’s being forced on us.

Try the truth | Hope to God that President Obama does not get his way when it comes to Health Care Reform. President Obama wants to throw health care into the oppressive hands of an all powerful governement whose track record is one of bankrupting the Nation, confiscating the hard earned money of the people, and stamping out individual freedom when it comes to just about everything. I don’t want the government in charge of my health care. Tbey can’t even run the Post Office which is going bankrupt not to mention Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid which are all big government boondoggles full of a top heavy bureacracy and lots and lots of corruption.

The bottom line isn’t government control. It’s government regulation. Our food, drugs, transportation, water, military etc..are all regulated. What is so bad about health care reform? You say you can’t choose. there aren’t any choices for those of us in the middle and lower class now.We are at the mercy of the insurance industry.A multibillion dollar profit off the backs of the poor industry.An industry that would do and say anything to keep that profit. I find it ironic that most of the people protesting so loudly about reform are recepients of what they fear, socialized medicine… aka medicare. So many of the talking points here come right out of the lips of those at Fox news. Those that are hired and paid to push the opinion of the elite.If people would only stop and think. This isn’t an issue of one party or another. It’s about taking care of Americans. People are being denied treatment by insurers now. Our health is being governed by insurance companies. I have to pick a doctor from a list my insurance company provides. I still can choose. And there are thousands of doctors to choose from.What I can’t choose is the amount of time I need to recoup in a hospital, what kind of treatment and tests I need or want. What hospital I want to go to. And if I lose my job or I’m laid off I have no insurance at all. Because I can’t afford cobra. I’ll take my chances with government regulation. Or better yet, government health care.

Paul… Amen

penney, if you are truely in finacial straits their is Medicaid which is going broke by the way or free clinics and hospitals who by law have to take care of you. The bottom line is that know one in the US goes without health care. The real question is how will health care be paid for. In the scenario you seem to like, government run health care, you may have the coverage but have no access to any health care as the government has run out of money and denied you access to health care. Long waiting lines, shortages of health care providers and no free choice is not the way to go. Keep government out of health care period. Don’t give government the power to make life and death decisons over who gets what coverage if any.

Fran-
You almost convinced me. I should say though, I am not a Democrat. National health care goes beyond the Republican-Democratic rhetoric. Neither is it a “free handout.”
It is an investment in the actual health of our country. Sick and unhappy people do not make for a productive workforce. It’s about making America a better place to live, work and have a family. And it’s about pulling together to this end.
My employer pays close to $11,000 per year for my health benefits, I am fitter than many males 10 years my younger, I seldom have to go in to see a doctor for any illnesses, and I trust that if I ever needed the care, it would be available to me. This gives me a great sense of relief and allows me to sleep at night. I fail to see the logic in denying this to someone who happens to do a job considered of less importance than mine. Are you making the argument that some deserve adequate health care and other don’t?
Expanding Medicare is not reform. It wouldn’t fix the problems that has made this issue so pressing.
It wouldn’t be cost effective if everyone’s insurance was as expensive as mine, but it would require insurance companies to be more competitive.

A question I have had about the “end of life” discussion” inclusion is it seems like a conversation like that would be a natural outcome in any regular appointment with your doctor. Why legislate it at all, no matter what your interpretation of the law is? Who makes a special appointment with their doctor to discuss end of life issues? Why stipulate a payment for such appointments? Seems unnecessary unless there’s a planned next step.

The TORT reform inclusion into the health reform discussion is proof that talk radio is guiding the thoughts of some posters here. That idea comes directly from them as does most of what we read from the oppositon. If I didn’t have any ideas of my own, I’d shut up, read, listen and try to learn something (Take a hint). Repeating Limbaugh and Hannity shows that the issue is too complex for you to construct ideas of your own.
Posted by: Mike from Carolina | Aug 15, 2009 5:35:31 PM
You are so right! I posted earlier that this debate is about so much more than healthcare. Most of these people barely even know what tort reform is about. For example, Texas passed tort reform a few years back, but Texas has one of the highest number of people uninsured in the country. I really don’t even know why I bother on these blogs, because you usually are not talking to people who are thinking with their own brains, only spouting crap they heard from Fox News/Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

Have you noticed those fussing about tort reform also say they have issues with the government doing healthcare. They could’nt sue.

President Obama tells it like it is. Why can’t republicans speak truthfully and plainly about health care reform? Our President wants to improve health care for America. There is no reason for all these republicans lies and deceptions to prevent another helpful program like Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare. Our government does a good job making sure you get your checks every month right on time. Why would anyone think the government can’t get in there and make sure we are not gouged by insurance companies or medical conglomerates. I trust President Obama to do what is right. He is a good man who is working for us.

It is sad when a sitting president uses our money and flies AF-1 at a half mil per pop to campaign against us.
This is not the US I grew up in! the sad thing is, if you look at the Montana town hall meeting, it was comprised of people too young to know anything about the America I grew up in. They think it’s always been crappy and they are looking for a change for the better.

isn’t it amazing how a whole raft of well placed lies by some clearly immoral/amoral people, can get people to lobby (or in this case “scream”) against their own best interest.
The FACTS are: most of Rush Limbaugh’s listeners are one serious illness away from bankruptcy. Many Sarah Palin supporters can’t get coverage because of a pre-existing condition. A large number Glenn Beck viewers will see their insurance companies drop them when they need their coverage most. Some RNC donors may want to start their own business, but can’t because they can’t afford to pay the monthly premiums.
Some of the same people who attended “Tea Parties” in April saw their family coverage disappear after they lost their job….and what is really bizzare is 95% of the Tea partiers got a tax decrease NOT increase.
How on earth did this happen ? This is truly a uniquely American tragedy unfolding before our eyes…
and a whole bunch of supposed “Christian conservatives” are going to someday have answer to a higher power for these lies and the damage caused.

Obama must know the truth that man can’t add enough CO2 to the atmosphere to impact climate or he wouldn’t be burning all this JP4 in attempt to marginalize our position on healthcare.
Man only contributes 3% of the total CO2 in the atmosphere. Based upon scientific experimentation (not consensus of minions) it has been shown that if it were possible to eliminate or double that figure neither would impact our climate.

If they can’t get Medicare and Medicaid to work. How do they think they are going to fix the rest of the healthcare system.

Ed: My information on who pays taxes in this country comes directly from the Wall Street Journal. In a piece written by Peter Ferrara on July 14, 2009, Mr. Ferrara wrote:
“Long before President Barack Obama took office, the bottom 40% of income earners paid no federal income taxes. Because of refundable income tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), in 2006 these bottom 40% as a group actually received net payments equal to 3.6% of total income tax revenues, according to the latest Congressional Budget Office data. The actual middle class, the middle 20% of income earners, pay only 4.4% of total federal income tax revenues. That means the bottom 60% together pay less than 1% of income tax revenues.”
So the bottom 60% of workers pay less than 1% of the total federal income tax revenues. To me that is the same is nothing. Your turn.

Ask yourself this question, “Is the current health care system working”. Everyone wants to criticize the president’s plan bc we have never tried it and we think it won’t work but we haven’t given it a chance. When Medicare was first introduced their was this same skepticism, and look at it now. The bottom line is that all of these rich, wealthy, ceo’s of these insurance companies and drug companies only care about protecting their profits

I have the same healthcare options as congress, and I had some experience with healthcare panels.
I chose from the list an insurance provider that was a bit more economical for my situation. It turned out to be a serious mistake, my wife had to have a heart valve replaced and I found myself at odds with the panel from the gitgo.
Her hospital stay had to be pre-certified, and the company never authorized more than a few days at a time. This, even with me telling them she was on two IV drips for six weeks due to a heart valve infection.
When we actually got into the surgery the pane would try to call each code (say for scar tissue removal, valve removal and replacement) as if it were a second procedure performed in the same operating site, thus lowering the coverage.
I never got it all resolved with the panel and the surgeon wrote off part of it as a professional courtesy.
True it was an insurance company giving me the problem but it was the government that negotiated my coverage, and my real problem was the panel of retired doctors serving on the panel determining what was to be paid.
If my wife hadn’t had me standing in the gap the cost would have been considerably more.
Bottom line don’t even suggest putting panels between me and my doctor no matter what the plan.

Viki: The President doesnt want to improve health care in America for all of us without passing his ridiculously expensive and ill-written healthcare plan? If he cares so much about your health why are cigarettes still available legally to those over age 18? Why not make the legal age for cigs 21? If President Obama really cared about the healthcare of American citizens he would abandon his $1 Trillion or more costing plan and look for other ways to reform the costs of the healthcare, drug, insurance and hospital industries. He isn’t – simply put because this proposal will make money for his administration, the government and his cronies to which a whole section of the plan is dedicated to slather them with billions of dollars in exclusive government contract bids. Its not about your health its about them making money from your paycheck. If it truly was about healthcare immediate lowered rate changes would have been forced upon these industries already! They dont want to make healthcare cheaper!!! They want to give MORE government/taxpayer money for their buddies in the healthcare industry lobby! Obama doesnt intend for his pharmaceutical cronies to reduce their drug and prescription prices (that would cost his friends money) he wants the taxpayer to foot the bill instead!!! Get it?

Fred Bastiat
-Socialism is stealing.
—————-
Fred, I take it then you are against Social Security and Medicare, as those are socialistic program.

Hello
I watch the healthcare debate and never see anyone on any side look to the future of healthcare if nothing is done well folks here is my idea on what will happen and yes I know that Obama said something on costs will go up but the thing that nobody seem to look at is the loss of healthcare of any kind we are the lead nation that advanced healthcare to what it is today what if that is gone never to return again well it could happen if nobody can afford it then it will disappear so if we want to retain the level of care we have now which is rapidly decreasing we may not have even basic care in a short time, pandemic well forget getting care for it outside a shot think about it if you all keep it up for very long there willnot be anything to fight about.

As a nurse with 35 years experience in both acute care and home care, I to want health care reform. Just not the rediculous porkacular being presented. It does not address tort reform, removal of license requirements between states, the exclusion of those here illegally,the exclusion of abortion (a nifty absence in the bill that actually includes coverage by not “mentioning” the word. Only through a lawyer can you have this type of tortured logic. Mr.Obama mentions that the AMA and the nurses associations are behind healthcare reform and that is true. What he did not say that they were behind HIS type of reform. I do not know of a single doctor or nurse that agrees with the framework of this bill. We need logical,change in the process of healthcare. We do not need the rushed through, illogic of this bill. Also, everyone must pay into the system. This brings value to the importance of using the system without abusing the system. Ask yourself, if we are short 10′s of thousands of licensed healthcare workers at this time, how are you going to care for an additional few million????

Michael W, there is nothing about “mandated consultations” in any version of HR 3200 that I’ve seen. Further, I googled “5 year mandated consultation” and come up with no results whatsoever, except for your posting on this blog!

It really burns me up, it makes me so angry.
the Republicans are trying their best to turn America into a Banana Republic, one of those really poor African country where you have to beg for medical attention, where middle-class Americans are left to seek out charity medical programs to see a doctor.
This is the Republican vision of America, Americans on their knees begging for crumbs from the rich.
What burns me up is, some of those same poor slobs are stupidly/blindly helping them destroy the country.

Alyson said “However, it has delivered for elderly people universal coverage ensuring that people with medical problems and pre-existing conditions will not become impoverished by their illnesses and injuries, and its beneficiaries are offered a guaranteed set of services and a choice of private doctors, hospitals and so on”
A minimal set of services. That is why beneficiaries have to purchase supplemental insurance that costs more than my share of my employer based plan. In addition, they have to purchase separate drug coverage. I call that a failure.

Judy wrote: “Mr.Obama mentions that the AMA and the nurses associations are behind healthcare reform and that is true. What he did not say that they were behind HIS type of reform.”
The AMA and the ANA both support healthcare reform in general, and they specifically support HR 3200.

Jelo: to say that the democrats themselves or Obama is trying to ‘save’ this country is also incorrect. It isnt a republican or democrat thing anymore Jelo! Obama’s plans mirror those of Bush when it comes to military, the economy etc. Only kind of worse he wants to expand government power! Thomas Jefferson and Paine are spinning in their graves so hard if we tied copper wire to them they could make a turbine that powers ‘electric cars’ the as of yet nearly non-existant white elephant of the auto industry! You cant truly be for that can you? Like I said Obama and company will not even entertain the thought that they should not pass their $1 Trillion dollar or more costing 1000 page healthcare proposal – and instead seek to regulate the cost of healthcare, drugs and hospital stays in some other way. Thats because it wouldnt make them any money! The Obama administration dont give a hoot if we live or die any more than the Bush administration. Both are just as greedy and money-hungry and militaristic! Where are the peace-makers and peacekeepers Jelo? Why are we still at war? Where are is the goodwill Jelo? Where are the coalitions of foreign embassadors offering goodwill? Who do they have scowling Hillary-threaten-you-Clinton? There are none! Middle Eastern and Indian countries dont want to embrace America, they dont want peace with us. Just commerce! Heck they dont even want to embrace the green-movement and cut down on auto emissions!

Jelo33 said “Fred, I take it then you are against Social Security and Medicare, as those are socialistic program”
I don’t know about Fred, but I am. They are the biggest ponzi schemes in this country. Madoff just got 150 years in prison for one MUCH smaller than those two programs.

Congress removed all restrictions that stood in the way of them being able to negotiate great care at low cost from about 23 different private insurance providers who were hopping at the chance to insure 8.5 million federal employees. They don’t have one single restriction on themselves that they are advocating for you.

Jelo – Yes, I would like to see them abolished. And if we had TRUE healthcare reform, they would be able to pay for their own. I outlined earlier in this thread what I think the government should do to bring down cost (not just payments). Abolishing Medicare would have to happen LAST in the progression in order for it to work. The other items would have to work & drive down the cost.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 15, 2009 6:45:13 PM
Hi Fran. What I’m saying is that the beginning of the section reads:
SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
So this is an amendment to the Social Security Act. And if you go to the section of the Social Security Act it amends you see definitions of things covered. Home health services are defined. Does that mean they’re mandated? Outpatient physical therapy services are defined. Does that mean they’re mandated? Medical and other health services such as rural health clinics and dialysis are defined and listed. Are they mandated?
The whole issue is a silly tangent that has been blown way out of proporation. Newt, Sarah and others were for such coverage before they were against it.

A minimal set of services. That is why beneficiaries have to purchase supplemental insurance that costs more than my share of my employer based plan. In addition, they have to purchase separate drug coverage. I call that a failure.
Posted by: ellsbells930 | Aug 15, 2009 7:06:38 PM
***
Well, I can handle disagreement:) In the study I mentioned it was found that more services were covered more often for people under Medicare than those under employer group plans, although that can vary by where you live (not everyone everywhere has a cornucopia of plans to choose from; it’s geographical.) I think I’m more interested in what the majority of people want and need, rather than the minority– and of those 80% oft-mentioned here that are happy with their current coverage, many of them are Medicare beneficiaries. Medicare won’t be done away with — not by either party, at least not in the near future.

Sarah “Death Panel” Palin writes on her Facebook page: “The ‘end-of-life’ consultations authorized in Section 1233 of HR 3200 were an obvious and heavy handed attempt at pressuring people to reduce the financial burden on the system by minimizing their own care. Worst [sic] still, it actually provided a financial incentive to doctors to initiate these consultations. People are right to point out that such a provision doesn’t sound ‘purely voluntary.’”
“Fran wrote: “I don’t see anywhere that it is strictly voluntary…. It requires the physician or other practitioner to consult with their patients.”
Fran, have you been picking up your faulty information from Sarah’s Facebook page? Just because she began citing sources recently doesn’t mean she’s started telling the truth.

“What burns me up is, some of those same poor slobs are stupidly/blindly helping them destroy the country.”
Never underestimate the right-wing propaganda machine’s ability to frighten the unintelligent/ignorant.

Jelo33 wrote: “This is the Republican vision of America, Americans on their knees begging for crumbs from the rich.
What burns me up is, some of those same poor slobs are stupidly/blindly helping them destroy the country.”
I don’t think it’s the vision of all Republicans, but you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Obama’s “consumer protection” approach to “health care reform” — in fact, it is insurance “reform” which, to the immense financial benefit of the corporations, would force every citizen to become an insurance “consumer” — is er corporate fascism.
How can the press — not to mention the Democratic rank-and-file, who are apt to join the tea-baggers’ upcoming march on Washington — pretend this corporate scam is even vaguely within the Democratic Party tradition?

It’s kind of hard to believe Obama when he says the government doesn’t want to take over health care.
Not too long ago Obama said he didn’t want to run a car company.
How does he keep a straight face.
I had a friend that was a pathological liar.
She told such huge whoppers that we both laughed. She knew she was lying but just couldn’t help herself.
I don’t think Obama’s lies are innocent.
Just pure manipulation.

“the leftist zanies thought this guy was The Messiah”
No, disingenuous right-wingers just claim that people of any convenient derogatory description thought Obama was some kind of messiah. In fact his supporters thought he was quite human and most are still happy with him.

Lobbyists, signing statements, earmarks, closed negotiations, transparency-
all Obama lies.
Why should anyone believe him now?

nick wrote: It’s kind of hard to believe Obama when he says the government doesn’t want to take over health care.
Not too long ago Obama said he didn’t want to run a car company.
How does he keep a straight face.
I had a friend that was a pathological liar. She told such huge whoppers that we both laughed. She knew she was lying but just couldn’t help herself.
I don’t think Obama’s lies are innocent.
Just pure manipulation.
It’s kind of hard to believe Palin when she says Obama’s Death Panel will pass judgment on her baby Trig.
Not too long ago Palin said she wanted Alaskans to get end-of-life counseling.
How does she keep a straight face.
I don’t think Palin’s lies are innocent.
Just pure manipulation.

“and most are still happy with him. ”
47% approval.
We now return you to your alternate reality.

Bet Noir said “That’s just silly” Why is it silly to get rid of two programs that are nothing more than ponzi schemes?

will Obamacare have any logical adjustments based on risk or self-inflicted costs? Why should I pay for smokers, heavy drinkers, drug users, or “extreme atheletes”? Or, for that matter, obese people and those who eat bad food…or too much food? We could go further and use Obama Czar’s Orwellian centralized health database information and give discounts to those with “good genes” as many health conditions are a result of genetic factors all. In other words if I’m healthy and make healthy choices will I get a “rebate” or have to pay less into the Obamacare? Obviously catastrophic events can occur but much of healthcare costs are do to personal choices (eating bad food, drinking, smoking, no exercise, risk, etc.)

If Advance Directives are “evil,” why did Sarah Palin praise them last year?

WWW
Palin is not the president, although I wish she was.
Obama is the one that has the power to
determine the fate of millions of Americans. How scary is that?
He is the one that seems more interested in stuffing the pockets of special interests, lobbyist, and CEO’s that got him elected.
He seems more worried about lawyers than doctors, the profits of Pharma rather than reasonably priced drugs for ordinary Americans.
Don’t be so fearful of Palin, at least until 2012.

Socialism. That’s what this healthcare reform reminds me of.

The left made fun of the way Bush spoke.
But Obama, Gibbs, Axelrod can’t complete a sentence without uh’s, ums, buts, you knows.
It is exhausting waiting for them to say something.
Perhaps it’s planned to either put people to sleep or get them to tune out.
They make Bush look good.

“They make Bush look good.”
Are you kidding?? Former President Musharraf of Pakistan spoke English better than George Bush and it was his third language.

I support the idea of health care reform for all Americans. I know of a 54 year old man who suffers from manic depression and bipolar mental health issues. He has had a long history of joblessness, divorce, isolation, and loneliness because of his mental health issues. He has a family that can no longer help him, although they have tried. They too are the victims of the system Obama is trying to fix. There are millions of Americans with the same issue. When we see reports of people who shoot innocent people at high schools such as Columbine, universities like Virginia Tech, and more recently Health Clubs in Pittsburgh, I can only pray for the change you are working so hard to achieve to come. These are the people we hear about after the fact. What about the ones we can help before they carry out their plan? The public judges them as crazy, but we are all responsible for some blame when we refuse to provide such a basic need as accessible health care. Is the cost of human life so disposable that we can afford to allow this to continue? Is the only way for these people to get health care in prison? The tax paying public need to become aware that when health care issues are addressed there could be stronger family units, less violence, less imprisonment, less unemployment, and less poverty. A healthy public is more productive, better educated, and has a safer quality of life for Americans in all phases of their lives. When we are spending less on the dysfunction, there is money available for funding high quality health care. Initially, it will take a lot of money, but as we see the change, we will see the benefits. Please continue the hope of a better quality of life for all Americans through health care.

Isn’t that the same grandmother (may she rest in peace)that Obama threw under the bus for racial profiling?
Obama seems to use her whenever it benefits him.

Pres. Obama will say anything, even personal stories about his late mother and grandmother, to justify his obamacare. He has restated that medicare will not be affected and middle class American don’t have to pay more tax, in regrdless of the facts his economists are busy considering cutting the medicare funding and raising tax on middle class.

jack wrote: “Why did he drop the end of life counseling if it was so benign, and if Palin is such a laughingstock?”
Obama did not drop the end-of-life provision; it was the Senate Finance Committee. And it was dropped from one of the Senate versions, not from House bill HR 3200. That’s another of Sarah “Death Panel” Palin’s lies that she’s telling on Facebook.

I don’t get the people who think that they are debunking Sarah Palin and her suggestion of death panels. Death Panel is the NO SPIN definition of what a part of this bill represents. If governement, or some shadowy CZAR will be making decisions as to who will recieve life saving medicine or operations, why not call a spade a spade?

I admire the lefties for putting up such a brave face.
The Dems control the WH, the House, the Senate and the MSM—and Obama still can’t pass Health care, cap/trade, DADT. He continues two wars, bows to tyrants, can’t close GITMO, and has continued Bush policies.
I can see why he voted present 129X in the Senate.
I voted for Hillary then McCain/Palin–at least they have a d*mn spine.

Obama is inventing bogeymen. He claims the healthcare insurance industry gets $60 billion in annual subsidies from the US.
What subsidies might that be?
Why don’t you take them back first, and then I will reconsider this monster bill of yours once you have established your integrity.

Keep your chin up Dems. Strike a pose like Obama.
It’s all about him and his legacy.
Obama will make sure that some kind of Health Care passes.
Even if it is completely watered down
the WH will spin it into a success.
With the media’s help of course.

Ed Taylor posted “True it was an insurance company giving me the problem but it was the government that negotiated my coverage, and my real problem was the panel of retired doctors serving on the panel determining what was to be paid.”
The problem Ed is that insurance companies do whatever it takes to make their profit. Denying claims is one way they do it.

It would be a lot easier to have meaningful discussion if the news media would return to the the standards they had before the “right” decided that truth is optional.
Posted by: Tony NE PA | Aug 15, 2009 10:25:22 PM
Tony, I’m with you. I don’t really contribute it to all of the “right” (as there are intellectual, sensible and moderate conservatives out there, as lonely as they may be lately) but rather Fox News, conservative talk show hosts like Limbaugh and then the MSM press that’s worried about being “fair and balanced” between the right and the left. Who cares about “balance”– why not dig for truth? I think it’s because truth has a liberal bias, and for years, wingnuts have demonized anything with a liberal bias, including truth.

The problem the President faces, other than issues of substance and truth, is that Congress has failed miserably in its Constitutional obligations to the American people with banking and commerce. Why should we now trust Congress and a President we don’t know with the future of health care in America? This intrusion comes at a time when many of us believe it is time to regain more control over our lives, not relinquish our most personal decisions to a government we have little reason to trust.

jggrimm, seems to me if we voted in, democratically, our Congress and President, we trust them enough to protect our country, lead our military, etc. we might as well let them have a shot at fixing our health care. It definitely isn’t working for not only the uninsured but anyone with a catastrophic illness is in danger of bankruptcy from medical bills even though they have bought medical insurance.

Who else in this debate is saying such loony things?
Posted by: Christine | Aug 16, 2009 3:49:01 AM
Uh, seriously? I disagree with your interpretation but there are what the President has said but there are indeed people saying loony things. Sarah Palin rings a bell. Senator Grassley isn’t helping much. Newt Gingrich– and Newt is a pretty smart guy so he’s doing it on purpose, no? More than a handful of folks on Fox News– Megyn Kelly, Glenn Beck, Whackadoodle stuff has been said. Betsy McCaughey– loony stuff. Having said all that, this kind of conversation doesn’t forward the debate much.
In the end, I believe President Obama will come out of this all right. He’s been down in the polls and called names before. I really liked his op-ed in the NYT. Check it out:)

It could have worked!!! Democrats are stupid!!!

Faurtz8 said “I did read the study they did and those people who are pulling their teeth are people who don’t have their own dental insurance.”
No, it’s because they don’t have the money to pay for the procedure since they are so heavily taxed. Plenty of people here don’t have dental insurance & yet, still manage to go to the dentist.

Why is it that Americans sat quietly through the first Gulf war, 9/11, the second Gulf war and the war in Afghanistan but suddenly, over Washington suggesting we help provide Health Care to ALL Americans, people are outraged and showing up at town halls? This is the thing that makes them mad??
Our armed forces will die to make sure that “no man is left behind” yet here at home we are content to leave sick or dying Americans lying where we find them (as long as we get our Medicare and Social Security).
I can understand fighting to save lives or fighting to save our country; but fighting to make sure that other Americans cannot receive Health Care, even when they need it? I have to admit I am somewhat ashamed of what we have become.
The time has come to do make a stand and to do the right thing. Support Health Care Reform for ALL Americans!

cincibaron – perhaps it’s because one is covered under the Constitution (the military) and one isn’t (healthcare). One is part of our mission (to help people be free all over the world) and one is about taking away personal freedom (healthcare)

cincibaron, nobody is “fighting to keep other Americans from getting healthcare, even when they need it”. Everyone gets healthcare here. Everybody.
This is about how medical insurance is structured and who should pay for it, as well as the degree of government intrusion the majority wants. Nobody is denying healthcare to anybody, so stop with the sob stories.
The sob stories only underscore that the left is confusing actual health care with insurance for health care. It diverts attention from the legitimate and valid concerns and questions people have about the language of the bill in key provisions. They are wonderful stories, but irrelevant to the debate.
Everybody wants a viable healthcare system, and the GOP has advocated a series of targeted reforms. The goal is shared, it’s how we get there that’s the problem.

Everybody wants a viable healthcare system, and the GOP has advocated a series of targeted reforms. The goal is shared, it’s how we get there that’s the problem.
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Well GOODY for the GOP. You mean the same people that under Bush chose private savings accounts as a cure? You lost. When will you people understand this? You lost. We fired you. There is no shared goal or you would have seen to it under Bush when for 6 years you had both the house and senate.

I’m all for anyone who will stop the insurance companies from denying folks with pre-existing conditions OR accepting them but then charging $1,800 a month to stay covered!! No lies folks; my friend had prostate cancer 10 yrs ago w/no signs of reoccurance since BUT when he retired & was no longer on the companies plan the only option opened to him was to take this very very expensive plan. In order to afford it he had to take money from his retirement fund which obviously means less will be there when he really needs it. Thank God he had it – the money & the expensive insurance plan – as he was hospitalized a couple of times and would have lost every bit of his retirement savings.
This is what the president is trying to help you and me avoid folks. My friend has finally reached 65 and will be under a plan that costs $350 a month thanks to Medicare. As I read the other comments I found it so true – the ones doing the loudest complaining are the ones who have medical insurance coverage that isn’t costing them their retirement savings. Wake up people!
Are you aware that your whole life history already is a part of your medical plan – and that had nothing to do with the government!! I just came home from a ‘sleep apnia’ study & had to complete or sign papers that clearly had my SS#, my family names & history the whole 9yards.

Roseanne Patrick said “I’m all for anyone who will stop the insurance companies from denying folks with pre-existing condition”
Do you also think that you should be able to wreck your car & then go get Auto insurance to pay for the damage? Do you think it’s okay for your house to burn down & then get homeowner’s insurance to rebuild your house? Or how about someone purchasing life insurance for you after you die?

Healthcare reform critics are getting their message heard – not inventing bogeymen. Hence the administration’s backtracking on a government option. Unfortunately there are still a number of worrisome things about this healthcare bill. Not the least of which is the expected cost as reported by the CBO to be far greater than the original Congressional estimates.

The public was told they would get a Healthcare option Like the one the President and Congress has. It ain’t gonna happen! Who’s the boggyman?

Does anyone have alist of the AMA doctors that were on board with the healthcare horror bill, The reason I want to know so I and loved ones never get treated by one of them. The Obama supporters of the bill can have them, Good Luck

I only know a boogeyman , long legged mack daddy. His initials are BHO.

eah everybody is a moron all this rage 57% is because mindless people are following not facts but blow hard opponents to the president…Is this guy dellusional…he is probably use to dealing with the sheep so much that he assumes everyone can’y think for themselves…its apparent this guy is radical and in way over his head

I have noticed that the opponents of President Obama’s plan to reform health care have raved on about it being socialist, and want to abolish Social Security and Medicare…..have the members of Congress forgotten that they have the best health care, and better than you can buy in the United States, but it is sponsored by the Federal Government

The administration has done such a bad job at promoting the specifics of their plan to the American people that it allows the opposition to do this.

Why do social reformer’s get their blumers in a bunch,with the discussion of freedom?