Obama to Be Briefed by (Bill) Clinton on North Korea Mission

Should be a short brief. NK accepted our apology for two spies… i mean reporters we didn’t send. The American people should be proud. Then they can move on to the next mission, apology to Iran for more spies… err hiker incursions.

“Should be a short brief. NK accepted our apology for two spies… i mean reporters we didn’t send. The American people should be proud. Then they can move on to the next mission, apology to Iran for more spies… err hiker incursions”
Yeah better to let them rot or go to war
I am guessing you sang a different tune in 2001.
“The letter that U.S. Ambassador Joseph Prueher handed to Chinese Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan yesterday asked Tang to “convey to the Chinese people and to the family of pilot Wang Wei that we are very sorry for their loss.”
And it said, “We are very sorry the entering of China”s airspace and the landing did not have verbal clearance.”

Hillary must be fuming! I always thought that Obama picked Hillary as Sec. of State because the Clintons had some “dirt” on him but maybe it was just petty revenge. Take away any chance Hillary as a potential rival by marginalizing her, bringing more divisions into their marriage, and embarassing her.

-Take away any chance Hillary as a potential rival by marginalizing her, bringing more divisions into their marriage, and embarassing her.-
The Clinton’s don’t need anyone’s help with that. But they hate, hate, hate the Obamas (and the feeling is mutual) for being in the WH. That’s Clinton real estate!

“Posted by: jhw539 | Aug 18, 2009 12:08:32 PM”
But jhw, KR has a friend of a friend in the military who was privy to administration thinking at that time and he said that Clinton did not really want to help.

I sincerely hope the President gave those 2 rookie journalists a tongue-lashing for making him fly half-way around the world and use the power and prestige of his office to spring them for knowingly and willfully violating the border laws of another country.
Now, get on with the celebrity book tour, movie deal and fawning MSM interviews.

The two journalists entered N.Korea knowing fully well where they were. They were hopeful all the time that Al Gore would come to their rescue. They entered N.Korea to snoop, and also to do evangelist work (their own evangelist college in NY raised money for them). N.Korea treated them justly.
I’ll just reiterate: MORONS.

Hurricane Bill heading to the White House.
Didn’t we send some Gitmo detainees into the path of Hurricane Bill?

“Much of the U.S. aid is defense-related, including 60 attack helicopters and military training to Colombian troops by U.S. advisers.”
Ok let me educate you Jw. The Colombian government has no mobility. The FARQ, largely based in remote jungle locations, are nearly impossible to get to by land and achieve any kind of tactical surprise or advantage. Those 60 attack helicoptors were indeed, not “attack” helicoptors. . They are UH-60 transport helicopters, not the R model which carries weapon systems. Those UH-60′s were PROHIBITED to ASSIST the Colombian government in counter-insurgency operations, essentially hamstringing them from taking the fight to the FARQ in the jungles. Do not pretend you know anything about the Colombian situation with a google of USA today.
Did we give them money? Yes. Did we give them advisory help? Yes. Did we give them the mobility they needed to fight the FARQ? NO! My education on the matter came from one of those advisors.

“The letter that U.S. Ambassador Joseph Prueher handed to Chinese Foreign Minister Tang Jiaxuan yesterday asked Tang to “convey to the Chinese people and to the family of pilot Wang Wei that we are very sorry for their loss.”
A little different situation. That WAS a government aircraft. We WERE gathering intel with that aircraft. And the aircraft didn’t enter Chinese airspace until after it was hit. The pilot was a moron for landing there, just my opinion. But the two situations have nothing in common.

“Those UH-60′s were PROHIBITED to ASSIST the Colombian government in counter-insurgency operations, essentially hamstringing them from taking the fight to the FARQ”
Please call my Brooklyn number for a great deal on a bridge.

“Please call my Brooklyn number for a great deal on a bridge.”
Over the past 15 years, Congress has insisted that U.S. security assistance for Colombia be restricted to combating the drug trade rather than fighting the long-standing civil war, in large part because of human rights concerns. Now, the Bush administration is pressing to lift those restrictions and allow all past, present and future aid to be used in operations against guerrilla forces.- National Securiy Archive

So where are all those witty educated remarks from all you national security experts who haven’t spent a minute in the military and assumed I was a liar? Or is the national security archive a right wingnut source?

More….
“U.S. Embassy Colombia cable, “Colombia UH-60 Helicopter Purchase – Exim Bank Financing,” April 26, 2000, Unclassified, 2 pp.
Source: Freedom of Information Act Release to the National Security Archive
Although the Bush administration has asked that restrictions on the use of U.S. security assistance to Colombia be lifted, this cable suggests that long before the current proposal, the State Department interpreted the language of the 1997 End-Use Monitoring Agreement (EUM) to permit the use of such aid in “counter-terrorism” operations.
In the document, the Embassy supports a proposed arrangement in which the Export-Import Bank of the United States would finance the purchase of UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters by the Colombian military. Under the agreement, the Colombian Ministry of Defense has given assurances that the helicopters “will be primarily used in counter-narcotics and counter-terrorism operations.””

Ryan, read what you posted. It changed the area they could operate in, what they could do in those area’s. It was still restricted to counter-drug. And this…
“the State Department interpreted the language of the 1997 End-Use Monitoring Agreement (EUM) to permit the use of such aid in “counter-terrorism” operations”
Someone should have told the military that because their explicit instructions was “counter-drug only”. Also, keep in mind that the FARQ was trafficking drugs so in a sense, they were crossing paths. But the leadership of the FARQ, their training camps, not deemed as involved in trafficking, were off limits.

“As counterdrug operations became increasingly dangerous and guerrilla attacks on Colombian security forces more successful in the mid-to-late 1990s, U.S. efforts to reengage the Colombian military in counterdrug operations were pitted against congressional efforts to condition such assistance on human rights performance. The evidence indicates that the State Department had extreme difficulty in identifying existing units that met these conditions. Two Colombian brigades that lost U.S. aid in September 2000 for human rights violations work as part of a joint strike force with antidrug battalions specifically created to qualify for U.S. funds. The new units, according to one document, were “bedding down” with a counterguerrilla battalion reportedly involved with illegal paramilitary groups. Current Bush administration proposals would unfetter all of these units for operations against guerrilla forces.”
A little background on this. The “illegal paramilitary” unit that is being talked about here (the AUC) was started by a man who had his family murdered by the FARQ. The FARQ, would come to a farm or village, ask the people in that farm or village to join the FARQ. If they refused, the FARQ would kill them. The man who started the AUC saw his family disemboweled and hanging from a tree on his farm. He started a group to hunt down and kill anyone involved in or supporting the FARQ employing the same tactics. Just a little perspective. One other story on the FARQ, a village would have a local sherrif type that worked for the government. The FARQ took one of these men from the village and his family to the city center. His wife was pregnant and he had a little girl. The FARQ killed his little girl, then disemboweled his wife and his unborn child so the man could see. They then killed the man and proclaimed to the village this is what happens when you support the government.
Makes you wonder how a group like the AUC could come to existance, or that the Colombian government would contact them while fighting the FARQ.

“There would be no civil war in Colombia if it were not for the enormously subsidized Drug War.”
Not true. The FARQ existed long before the drug trade (started around 1979). Matter of fact, even by the late 1990′s, intel sources were split on whether or not the FARQ was even involved in drugs. They definately are today, but the FARQ did not come about because of drugs.
“And, when we sponsor death squads, we radicalize the poor, and they join the guerillas for protection.”
Not really true either. We didn’t ever sponsor “death squads” in Colombia. The FARQ and AUC employed those tactics. The AUC was all but disbanded after the FARQ was driven mostly out of Colombia. If they joined the guerillas, it probably was on protection from the guerillas, not from the government or us. If a guy has a gun and says join us, and he just killed the last guy who said “no”, your going to say “yes” unless you want to die. Doesn’t mean your seeking protection. Means your trying to survive.

“A little background on this. The “”illegal paramilitary” unit that is being talked about here (the AUC) was started by a man who had his family murdered by the FARQ. The FARQ, would come to a farm or village, ask the people in that farm or village to join the FARQ. If they refused, the FARQ would kill them. The man who started the AUC saw his family disemboweled and hanging from a tree on his farm. He started a group to hunt down and kill anyone involved in or supporting the FARQ employing the same tactics.”
Otherwise known as a right wing death squad that used cocaine revenues.
Considered a terrorist organization by the United States.
In short…little better than FARC or ELN.

Of course, the FARQ has been around for a while.
But you should study up on the School of the Americas, in Fort Benning, GA. The SOA officially changed its name to WHINSEC, because the SOA has proven such a horrible nightmare for our national image, but WHINSEC does the same thing: Train Latin American military leaders in Low-Intensity conflict strategies, like how to disrupt protests, how to suppress union organizers, how to deal with “insurgents” (like Archbishop Oscar Romero who was gunned down during mass by SOA graduates… like the Jesuits and Maryknoll nuns who were murdered, some of them raped, by SOA graduates).
Whatever we are trying to do for Latin America, the people we equip and train all too often use this training and equipment to harass, intimidate, and kill the poorest of the poor.
I believe it is through ignorance or foolishness, but US foreign policy has not made things any better in Latin America. A hands off approach would be best.

Did you know that Klaus Barbie was actually employed by the United States?
It is insane… the guy was notorious for his complicity in the Holocaust. Not only did we close one eye to him while he did his evil deeds in South America, we HIRED him.

“Chiquita did.”
The banana producer? Did they run the US government?

“It is insane… the guy was notorious for his complicity in the Holocaust. Not only did we close one eye to him while he did his evil deeds in South America, we HIRED him.”
We hired many of the former Nazi’s when the Cold War began. They were the best source of intel on the Russians. Cold War forced us into many unsavory situations, fault us if you want, but I grew up in the Cold War and we got involved in some ugly things in order to prevent our isolation, or to isolate the Russians. Every nation in the world was used, by both sides, to advance against each other. Where do you think the FARQ came from? They were a communist revolutionary group. I’ll give you one guess.

“Rumor has it Fidel dropped a dime on Che.”
Heard that rumor too. After Che failed miserably in the Congo, I think he was beginning to tarnish Fidel’s ego. Fidel probably wanted him gone.

“We mucked things up so bad, as, of course, you know. You are absolutely correct when you point out that Bolivia did not hire Klaus Barbie…. WE DID. Out tax dollars paid Barbie to do what EVEN the Bolivian government was unwilling to do: Eliminate the Left through any means necessary.”
Barbie hadn’t been on the US payroll since the 1940′s from what I understand. We got what we needed out of him then chucked him.
“But now, if we withdraw our constant pressure, there WILL be a leftist swing in South America. So, we keep trying to put this swing off… building bases, sending guns, backing coups, etc.”
I wouldn’t be so sure. Chavez is losing popularity around his neighbors. No one wants to be associated with him. Uribe is emensely popular. The former President of Colombia was a far leftist. He nearly lost the country to the FARQ with concessions.
It’s going to depend on which country you look at. Argentina is sitting left of center, as is Brazil. Puru is right of center, with Colombia and Chile, Equador is left of center but the government is under emense scrutiny. Evo has Bolivia but he too is ticking off his neighbors and this is begginning to wear down his popularity in the country. So it really depends. I don’t think you can count on a swing left in every country.
And we haven’t backed a coup since the Cold War. All of the countries buy some of our military hardware, even those lefty countries like Brazil. It’s not cut and dry.

Maybe Fidel ratted out Che… but it is also just as likely that someone just made it up to sow discontent amongst Castro’s supporters.
In any case, it is hardly worth worrying about, because it contributes nothing to this discussion about whether or not we should back Right Wing monsters because they oppose Left Wing monsters.
The point I am making is that, regardless of what the Russians were doing, it is filthy to subject other people, at a remote distance, to the depravity of a man like Klaus Barbie.
While I have no desire to live in a Communist state… I must say that Fidel’s Cuba, even with its human rights abuses, is absolutely no comparison to Hitler’s Germany.
One has significant crimes against private property and free speech…. the other one built death camps to wipe millions of Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Disabled, and “Leftists” off the face of the earth.
And, I believe that the decision to back Nazi war criminals in South America was driven primarily by the chief difference between Fidel’s Cuba and Hitler’s Germany. The people who picked Barbie reasoned that they could tolerate a white supremacist who wanted to wipe out the world’s inferior humans… but they could not tolerate the theft of private property by nation-states.
Genocide vs. Business. And business won.

U.S. dollars did back the coup against Chavez. Not tax dollars, but our policy gave the signaled the green light… and now our government has been trying to cope with an increasingly polarized Latin America since.
We also backed the coup against Aristide in Haiti. Or rather, we sent peacekeepers in and gave them orders to prevent Lavalas Party members from retaking power. We flew Aristide out of the country. AND, US peacekeepers were under strict orders NOT to interfere with the massive and bloody purge of Lavalas from the Haitian countryside.

You could also characterize the mission to oust Noriega as a coup.

-Maybe Fidel ratted out Che… but it is also just as likely that someone just made it up to sow discontent amongst Castro’s supporters.-
More likely he was just taking a page out of Stalin’s playbook.

“U.S. dollars did back the coup against Chavez. Not tax dollars, but our policy gave the signaled the green light… and now our government has been trying to cope with an increasingly polarized Latin America since.”
Latin America has been polarized for decades. Definately didn’t start in 2002. And if tax dollars didn’t go to the coup, or arms, then we didn’t support the coup, we paid it lip service. We were under pressure to support it by Foreign Oil companies such as Dutch owned Shell, but we didn’t do anything. Give Bush some credit for restraint in that one, even if he did open his mouth when he shouldn’t have.
“We also backed the coup against Aristide in Haiti.”
Haiti was so dorked up I think we actually saved his life on this one. Not sure it was a coup, but it certainly was in his best interest or he’d be dead by now.

“The number of people that Che may have killed are largely unsubstantiated… But I would say that killing Nazis and Fascists in a war is vastly different than rounding up Jewish orphans to send them to the ovens.”
No, during the Cuban revolution, Che was in charge of the political prisoners. The actual number is unknown, but its more than 1,000 and less than 2,000. The estimates I have seen were 1,600 CUBANS, not Nazi’s. The Bolivians kicked the crap out of him, I’m not sure he even operated long enough or successful enough to take a prisoner in Bolivia.

“And I am ashamed that people would celebrate his victory over Che Guevara.”
Again, I think you are giving Barbie too much credit. He worked for the Bolivian intelligence service, he didn’t run the war. At best I can tell, he was an advisor to the Bolivian government. I haven’t seen anything that says he was directly in charge of forces fighting Che.

“Let’s not turn him over to be tried for his crimes. Let’s not reveal his whereabouts to the victims of the Holocaust.”
Again, he wasn’t employed by us, he was employed by the Bolivians. We were assisting the Bolivians to put down the communist revolutionaries, but I don’t think that means we were in bed with Barbie. I haven’t seen anything that says we had any contact with him past 1951 when our intel service helped him get to Argentina. After that, it appears all ties were severed and he was left on his own.

The point I am making is that the people of Bolivia had every right to stand up to a government that would use a man like Barbie to destroy their own people.
Furthermore, I think it is unconscionable that you would compare Cuba’s Civil War to the Nazis.
I hate to drop things like this… but there is no point in continuing as I am becoming angry. And I don’t want to become insulting or rude. I respect you and your opinion… but I disagree with you profoundly, both on your characterization of history and your attitude about violence.

KR, please read Jon Lee Anderson, author of the 800 + page ‘Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life’, who spent 5 years researching the man:
“I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder.”
+ the total death total of Che victims is between 55 and 216 … not 1,000.

Re: CUBA
Speaking of “TERRORISTS”, assassins, and killers … how about the likes of Luis Posada Carriles (“South America’s Bin Laden” who blew up Cubana Flight 455 in 1976), Orlando Bosch (his partner in crime), Felix Rodriguez (point man for Oliver North in Iran/Contra, trained central American death squads, ordered execution of Che Guevara), Alpha 66 (= Gusano Al Qaeda), Brigade 2506, etc
This U.$. backed & harbored ‘Latino-Hezballah’ of South Florida terrorizes Cuba, blows up hotel lobbies, hijacks ferries and planes, strafes Cuban beaches with gun fire, drops poisonous pathogens on Cuban crops, poisons Cuban water supplies, etc
Go to Versailles restaurant in Miami where these blood soaked “butchers” (a word they use with great chutzpah towards El Che) will be sitting right up front.

Wow the Che love floweth. First off, the source of the information on the Batista government is of course, the current Cuban regime. While the Batista government was no saint, one only has to read Grandma to get a feel about how much the current Cuban government outright lies. Just recently, they claimed a US aircraft carrier carried an invasion force to the Caribean in 2006. Aircraft carriers do not carry amphibious invasion forces. They claimed it had 3,000 marines poised to invade Venezuela and/or Cuba. The only marines on a carrier these days are aviators. This particular carrier, the GW, had only half of its normal air wing.
And the “revolutionary tribunals” had no due process. If they even thought you were guilty, you were executed. The source of the 50-250 came from non other than the Cuban government. No wonder he couldn’t find a source from a state controlled information outlet.
There is no way I would trust information from the Cuban government on anything, especially Che.

“Che is an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom, we will always honor his memory.”
— NELSON MANDELA