Palin Paints Picture of ‘Obama Death Panel’ Giving Thumbs Down to Trig

The child is smarter than his mother.

The fake Town Hall crowds are being led by the nose by the scaremongering tactics of the GOP and the Health Industrial Complex.
Obama’s courageous determination to ensure that 40 million Americans receive health insurance is heroic. Standing in the way of that is really “downright evil.”

what!!! she wouldn’t make things up or tell lies…. yeah right

If she’s quoting Michelle Bachmann it speaks for itself. I just can’t believe how these people keep making crap up.

Obama has to be the most arrogant president ever elected. I tell you he will not get away with socializing medicine. He will lose Congress and then he will be finished. He is a one term president
Posted by: brian | Aug 7, 2009 9:44:33 PM
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Brian, they’re not doing socialized medicine to begin with. And as far as arrogance? More talking points with no beef. This after Bush thumbed his nose at everybody.

So Palin herself has decided to inject Trig into the health care debate claiming that Obama’s “Death Panel” is waiting to euthanize him. That is an interesting choice of language coming from someone who was pleading with the media just a few days ago to keep her children out of politics. Apparently, she has no problem injecting Trig into the political free for all. Well, if someone counters her argument about Trig, I hope she is not offended since she is the one injecting him into the debate.

I knew what Sara Palin full time job was going to be after she quit her Governor job and it was attack President Obama full-time. She continue to bring her kids and all these policy debate it is sad. Thank God McCain lost and he needs to apolgy to the American People for introducting this whack job to us.

PsychoRocks – Ah hahahahaha That’s all I wanted to say.

absolutely disgusting. she’s mentally ill and her son needs to be protected. that she would use her own child as cheap political ammunition shows you what she’s made of. thank God she is a republican.

It’s much easier to be a right wing politician when you don’t actually have to do anything.
You can just bloviate without expecting results.
When she was governor… she had to keep one foot in the real world… or risk hurting her constituents.
These Tea Party/Birther whackos remind me of the “anarchists” I knew in college… they could sit there and carp all day long… and talk about how evil America was and how great their anarchistic utopia would be… because they would never have to prove it. They could criticize all they wanted… while their dad would mail them checks to pay their rent.
The GOP is the same. Radical. Immature. Foolish.

I wish she and Fox news would just disappear into the ether… god she’s dumb!

Hey Jimonthright: Your parents are the people who Obama wants to get health care for. What has your dealings been with insurance companies? Mine has not been a good one. If there is another choice, I’m for it. Stop spreading lies and misconceptions to the people. No one wants to take anyone’s health care away from them and you know it. You just do not like Obama…., I say. He is a good president and why he cares for you is beyond me.

JPT – I read the piece starting on 425 (it is much more than that page) and I would not want this board to make decisions for me. I don’t need a fact checker to see my decisions are decided by some board. Sorry Jake use your college degree and read for yourself and tell me if you would want to be an elder person or disabled under this scenario.

Michelle Bachmann is also grade-a looney. She’s the one who thinks the census is being used to round up conservatives in FEMA camps.

I guess I’ll need to watch Soylent Green again since it appears to be the new health care policy.

The usual RIGHT-WING LIES. Medical treatment is ALREADY HEAVILY RATIONED by those loving and caring INSURANCE companies that donate so many millions to these wealthy conservative politicians who enjoy a Rolls Royce health plan in Congress and so have no medical debt fears. They should be truly ashamed of themselves as millions of Americans have lost their jobs and employer sponsored insurance and have to beg their churches and other charities to pay for chemo and other expensive treatments. SHAME! SHAME!

She questions Democratic promises that the health care reform plans will reduce the cost of health care, invoking economist Thomas Sowell, saying the only way to cut costs is to refuse treatment.*************
YIKES!!! CUT COST IS TO REFUSE TREATMENT?? Ironic,
that’s taken right out of Blue Cross Blue Shield little black book! Who is fooling who?

” I guess I’ll need to watch Soylent Green again since it appears to be the new health care policy.” – With Charlton Heston played by Rush and Edward G Robinson played by Hannity. Wait a minute…just turn to FoxNews.

Palin is addicted to victimhood and she is craving for her usual fix by bringing this kid into the debate in order to throw another tantrum of “the liberals attacking my child”
What a mother!

She will deny it all.

“Did she hear this from some wacko Beck caller or fringe blogger or is she restoring [SIC] to making up crazy rumors…?”
Sadly, she didn’t. I just read this crazy nonsense in a newletter sent out by Representative Blackwood from the great state of NC.
It is a sad comment that a US Congressman would send out such a bald-faced tissue of lies. He was several completely fabricated slurs that he has had the nerve to print in publie.
For example in his newsletter he says:
Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” (Yes, it really says that.)
NOW here’s what the bill REALLY SAYS on page 203:
˜(4) NOT TREATED AS TAX IMPOSED BY THIS CHAPTER FOR CERTAIN PURPOSES – The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax imposed by this chapter for purposes of determining the amount of any credit under this chapter or for purposes of section 55.”
In other words, don’t count this tax when calculating your tax credit. Do you see the period at the end of Blackwood’s quote? He’s trying to convince you that that is a complete sentence. He has taken these words out of context and tried to make them seem silly when in fact they serve a purpose.
That is exactly the kind of cr*p that the White House is talking about when they say that the opposition is willing to tell lies and spread disinformation.
I just got done a few hours ago sending an email to a friend explaining exactly the same info in this artilce. You see, the writer of the article and I have actually read the bill!
Please do not believe what these people are saying without checking it out for yourself. Please do not spread these lies to your friends without checking them out. Because these people cannot be trusted to tell you the truth.

AlChemist, you are spreading fear and lies. My health care is not rationed at all. My wife’s breast cancer expense has been completely covered by Blue Cross Blue Shield NC. And she was picked up on MY plan when she retired and lost her coverage. BCBS did not even blink an eye at her pre-existing condition. They have covered all of the doctor and hospital bills, her very expensive medications, and all of her follow up testing. A good friend recently had a heart valve replacement at Duke University…..it was covered in entirety by his insurance company, even though capable doctors were available even closer, in Charlotte. My grand kids births were taken care of, except for the minimal deductibles. My colonoscopies are 100% covered. I recently had a rock thrown from a lawnmower and stike the back of my head. 3 hours in the ER, 5 staples, 8 sutures and a cat scan. My cost? $75. Period. Total. So what is this crap you are trying to spread? Don’t try to peddle it as gospel, please. I am totally satisfied with my health care provider, as are over 73% of the population.

Blame the Republicans!…Is that all anyone can do! I have voted 30 years as a Democrat and I am so ashamed of the Democrats. Just this week I cancelled my membership in the Democratic Party! I was totally against George Bush both times, but I can tell you I didn’t fear for my freedom when George Bush was President like I fear for my freedom now!!!

Tapper, you are either blind or part of the problem! How much clearer do ‘people’ like Ezekiel Emmanuel and Cass Sunstein (one a health care adviser and the other the guy who would decide how things like the health care bill ultimately get executed as the unchecked regulatory czar) have to be regarding their beliefs and intentions as they pertain to eugenics before that cast of characters + this bill scare you and anyone else who supports this evil?

“JAke – Can you tell me where Sarah gave her childs name in her article?” – She said “my baby with Down’s Syndrome.” She keeps crying to the press to keep her children out of the news while she constantly brings them up. She is using her poor kids just like she used McCain and all of Alaska. Pure ambition. I am glad I am not one of her “friends and loved ones.”

The quickest way to spread panic is to let the Republicans distort anything the Dems say and do (likewise for the Dems against the Republicans).
You want to fix this healthcare issue once and for all? Take all the free healthcare perks away from our lawmakers that are totally insulated from “our health plans” and see how fast THEY wake up!

Hello Fed Up…I’m glad your friend had the sense and responsibility to have had the back up plan. In our situation (my wife and mine), we did NOT and do not have any back up policy. We were treated like gold by Blue Cross Blue Shield, NC. My wife’s insurance from the hospital at which she worked covered her cancer surgery. After she retired, I got her covered under my policy at my work (my insurance is BCBS.NC.) I was concerned about the Pre-existing Condition of her cancer. They said, “is she insured now?” I said, yes, by her former employer and is covered for the next 30 days. The said, “NO PROBLEM”…she was immediately covered by BCBS, regardless of her cancer. Needless to say, you libs will have a very difficult time convincing me that my insurance provider is anything but top shelf….

2012 Republican Dream Ticket: Palin and Bachmann!!

22,000 people on average per year lose their lives to the lack of health insurance or the inadequacy of their health insurance. 22,000!!! Blood on Republican hands!!

Underinsured may be a problem. But why is it the government’s responsibility to take care of that? Like your friend did, buy the supplemental policies. Gee, folks might have to give up cable or satellite tv for a while. Or maybe even the internet. May have to do a bit less texting and cell phone twittering (whatever THAT is)….but if one really cares, they’ll do what it takes to provide for their futures
Cold, ain’t I?

More scare tactics from the Right.

This is plain low and uncouth. Echoing bogus sentiments on a critical national issue like this is hardly a mark leadership.
What is expected is constructive analysis of the proposal(s) on the table and suggestions or amendments to provide health care to millions of Americans who currently lack it. She has NONE. How can a “PROLIFER” really be against universal healthcare?
In my opinion, basic Health care should be a guaranty for all Americans regardless of cost. Thereafter, individuals can purchase supplementary insurance for Cadillac services.

Fight the smears….they are, for the most part, too lazy to actually do the research…it’s much easier to repeat the same talking points gleaned for a report from the UN’s listing of health care effectiveness. They are not interested in the fact that women in the US have an 80% survival rate from breast cancer, whereas, in the UK and Canada, that survival rate is in the low 60′s. Men with prostrate cancer in the US now have over 90% survival rate…in the UK? aroun 70%. Those pesky facts that just won’t go away.

nc – Next you’ll try to say there’s nothing to those not able to even get insurance due to pre-existing.

aBC RUNNING propaganda for Obama again. Yes, if you don’t like the facts about Obama and his plans attack Bush or Palin or Rush or the American people themselves. People have caught on and are tired of the propaganda…..

Df123,
I have read the BILLS(Meaning there are more than one!!!!) The bill allows for people to consult,VOLUNTARILY,with someone so that they can make out a living will. There is no mandate. Also, if you have ever been to a hospital you would know that they already ask you if you have a living will and if not they will ask you if you would like to consult with a social worker.
I’ve listened to both Democrats and Republicans and the only ones walking away with 0 creditability are the Republicans.
You sure are one to be telling others to get an education!

Sara Palin alway using her kids to futher her agenda not the media like she have you to believe.

“Just go to the UK papers and look up the horrors of their NHS.” – According to the CDC the UK has longer life spans and higher infant survival rates than the U.S. and they pay less per capita for their health system. Dont waste your time trying to get facts on health care outcomes from the media.

Wow Jack Tapper debunks the Palin bullsh&t!!!!
Palin is CRAZY.

“IN FACT he is on tape saying thats what he wants… It is on video, so why don’t you clal him a liar…” – Dan
You mean the video from 2003?
I tell you what look at interviews with McCain in 2004 and compare them to the McCain that ran in 2008 – you wouldn’t even know its the same man.
People change. Are you the same person you were in 2003?

Mark from atlanta – Have you ever talked with someone from England? I have. My neighbors’ daughter-in-law is English. She was diagnosed with needing her gall bladder out the same week as a friend of mine here in the U.S. Waiting time in England = 6 months. Waiting time in the U.S. = 1 week. Where would you rather be?

I meant Jake Tapper not Jack Tapper. Any ways.
Pearlstein was right when he said that the GOP is spreading LIES about the health care plan just to scare people.
The GOP is so fearful that Obama is going to succeed that they are doing anything they can to try to make him fail.
Seeing this job report this morning probably scared them. The economy is recovering and the Republicans can’t stand it.

how can anyone listening to someone who quit her job and gave up on her own citizens of alaska. if she would become president and times become hard, will she quit that job too.. she has no character or creditability whatsoever..

Palin is trying to scare people and using her child as well when she said that her children are off limits.
Palin is a quitter and NO ONE should believe anything that she says.

spacerook1 said “that’s taken right out of Blue Cross Blue Shield little black book! ”
And guess where Blue Cross/Blue Shield got that little trick? From Medicare.

“When the government provides our universal coverage, WE WILL HAVE NO CHOICES.” – Kelley Faler
And which health care bill are you referring to? Because there is nothing in the bill that says govt. is the only source of coverage. You might want to actually read it, that might put you in a better position to critique it.

Radphord – Do you not think insurance companies have advisory committees? Let’s ponder what advisor means.

Its good to have ole Sarah back. I was really missing the humour. The comedians are going to love this!

Mark from atlanta – Infant mortality has more to do with how the mother takes care of herself during her pregnancy than with the healthcare system.

now see, FedUp? There is Tom referring to Palin saying that she can see Russia from Alaska. See? He actually believes that Palin said that. When in fact, it was said on by Tina Fay SNL in a skit that was slamming Palin. But the pea brains on the far left actually believe, now, that she said it. Can you imagine how broken hearted they will be when they find out that there really is NOT a little sponge man on the bottom of the sea wearing square pants and cooking marshmallows over a campfire!!

I’m glad to see a major network address this dangerous nonsensical rhetoric that’s being perpetuated by far right conservative talk show host and despicable politicians. These people don’t speak for the republican party. I hope not. This Country is better than that. Debate the issue.

Palin the Quitter is nothing more than a fearmonger.
She should be spending her time trying to figure out how she is going to get out of the latest Federal Lawsuit filed against her for bribery charges ….offering state funds and support of legislation to third parties in exchange for them convincing Plaintiffs to drop this lawsuit in federal or state court.
Palin is a proving more and more crazy every day.

Universal health plan also means manditory vacinations of items chosen by our government, especially for our children. one part now, second part later, etc. Our government will have total power of all people in the U.S. and the people would not even know it. That includes all government representatives.

I think she has it right. Obama Care will be the death of this country. It is EVIL and Americans are seeing it for what it really is a huge power grab expansion of government. We can have health care/insurance care reform without the government taking it over. What entitlement program have they ever run well? NONE!

If you have read the Health Care bill, like I have, you would know that Palin is correct, whether you agree with her politics or not. The news media cannot spin the truth. It will not work this time.

Ryan wrote: “Obama’s courageous determination to ensure that 40 million Americans receive health insurance is heroic. Standing in the way of that is really “downright evil.”
Obama is not JUST going to ensure that 40 million (I thought the total was 47 million) Americans receive health insurance. President Obama has said on numerous occasions that he wants to “overhaul” the system. So with 85% of America currently satisfied with their healthcare insurance, Obama wants to “overhaul” the entire system to satisfy the other 15%. If all he wanted was to insure the 47 million uninsured, the federal government could provide the financial assistance for the 47 million to purchase their own insurance. Instead his ACTUAL GOAL is the elimination of the private sector and replacing it with the federal government as the sole provider of healthcare.

“Infant mortality has more to do with how the mother takes care of herself during her pregnancy than with the healthcare system.” – Ask any OB-GYN about the connection between quality, accessible pre-natal care and infant survival. Is it a coincidence that all 19 countries with higher infant survival rates have national health plans? Our system is hurting the most vulnerable in our society. Are you looking for solutions or trying to justify your ideology?

OB-Wan222……actually he said it during the campaign. All his CZARS say they want it too. HHS secretary wants it and OBAMA put them all in! WAKE UP!
And yes in 2003 I never believed in rationed care. I am the same person.

“Universal health plan also means manditory vacinations of items chosen by our government, especially for our children” – Children have to be vacinated to enter school. Thats how we stamped out polio. Please read up on the history of public health before making off the wall statements.

It is Commrade Obama’s Communist Health Care Manifesto. It is not about health care as much as it is about power for the government and loss of liberty for the people.

OB-Wan222 said “Because there is nothing in the bill that says govt. is the only source of coverage. ”
But it sure appears that the government can move us toward that by declaring current plans “not acceptable” and forcing people to join the public plan.

David Gibberman explains how government decides whether you live or die in Britain:
Good one David. In this country you just get turned away at the door without any debate at all. Unless you are one of “The Have Mores” that Bush claimed were his base.

Mark from Atlanta – It is RECOMMENDED that children be vaccinated before entering school – but there are plenty of legal reasons to not have children vaccinated. Plenty of children enter school without being vaccinated. Oh- and polio is not completely stamped out. There was an outbreak in a local Amish community a few years ago.

“If you think that this bill isn’t the FIRST STEP to complete government control of our healthcare – you are SADLY MISTAKEN.” – Kelley Faler
“Universal health plan also means manditory vacinations of items chosen by our government, especially for our children. one part now, second part later…” – urban
“We can have health care/insurance care reform without the government taking it over.” – concerned mob member
Well, you got me, I can’t really argue with the mulititude of you that are talking about some imaginary bill in your head. I can only discuss the actual law.
I can’t join in discussing the shape, size and dress of the bogeyman under your bed. All I can do is let you argue with your co-dependants about the scope of the bogeyman while the rest of have decided to turn on the light.

This is how it works in every country with socialized medicine. Especially the Netherlands, where a significant percentage of yearly fatalities are physician initiated euthanasia “Without Explicit Medical Request”. Spit.
Socialized medicine leads to euthanasia, every time. Deal with it.

Palin should not comment when she does not know what she’s talking about, as in this case. Energy, she knows something about. This health care debate– doesn’t look like it from this.
I must address misinformation from other commenters as well (hey, why should Linda Douglas have all the fun?). The business about lower US infant mortality stems, to a great extent, from how different nations count live births. I have discussed this numerous times on this site, but here goes the shorter version (honest, I have gone on at greater length): The US tries to save far more low-birth-weight babies. Preemies weighing even a pound have been known to survive in the US, where we have excellent neonatal facilities (a distant relative of mine runs on of the best, as a matter of fact). A tiny pre-term baby will thus still count as a live birth and heroic measures will be taken here to try to save it. Most of the time, these heroic measures do not succeed. Very low birth weight babies usually die. In the US, that counts as a live birth and then a death, even if the child dies within minutes of being born. The US leads the world in children who die on the day they were born. Why? Because in most other countries, those children would not be counted as live births at all. In Canada and Germany, for example, a baby weighing less than 500 grams is not considered a live birth but a stillborn or miscarriage. We count them all, if they are alive at birth, try to save them, and then they contribute to our infant mortality rate when they die within hours or days of their birth. I would not trade our system, regardless of how the statistics look.

If Tapper is goint to quote factcheck.org as a source of unbiased complete judgement than Tappers creds should be examined.
Quoting sites like this is like quoting Obama as proof.

I can’t join in discussing the shape, size and dress of the bogeyman under your bed. All I can do is let you argue with your co-dependants about the scope of the bogeyman while the rest of have decided to turn on the light.
Posted by: OB-Wan222 | Aug 7, 2009 11:13:18 PM===========================
pretend for a moment you have a brain-please?
The only bill the public has to refernce is the one they have posted on line. I amtyically careful to say the “bill as it reads today” so as not to have to play a kindergarden teacher and explain this to the likes of people like you.
As the bill reads right now, tax payers will be spending tens-of-billions on dollar so that medical facilities will giv preferential treatment to minorities: On page 889-890 the bill states:
“In awarding grants or contracts under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: . . . Training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds.”
As the bill reads today, if you do not have insurance for an entire year or part of a year, insurance mind you that the GOVERNMENT approves of, they will tax your total GROSS income 2.5%…..
There is nothing in the bill assuring use that billions of tax payers dollars will NOT go to illegal aliens nor does anything read that tax dollars will NOT go to paying for elective abortions as there is currently a law in place right now that state federal dollars cannot be used to pay for abortions.
When Repbulicans requested those amendments be placed in the bill, the democrats said no.

Tapper: Factcheck is not a reliable source…aren’t you a journalist….read the bill.

“God bless Sara Palin! She stands up to BO who has NEVER SHOWN A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!” – John
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
Boy, that never fails to crack me up.;

All of our comments are being sent to the “fishy” control center in Washington!! What great use of taxpayer’s dollars!!

How funny! Next Palin, with her excellent geographic skills, will say the earth is flat. And, what’s funnier!? The Republicans will believe her! Oh, Sarah says the earth is flat!!!! It must be true! It must be true!! The sky is falling. The sky is falling. What fools!

Begining on pg 167, if you do not have a health care plan that the government approves on, they will tax you 2.5% of your GROSS INCOME or if you do not have health care or their approved of health care for a portion of the year they will tax you more as well:
Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLEHEALTH CARE COVERAGE.‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘‘(2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES.—
The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as—‘‘(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to‘‘(B) the entire taxable year

“Sowell’s are more reasonable arguments, though they don’t exactly emphasize that health care insurance company bureaucrats already are making such decisions. In any case, nowhere does he raise the specter of an Obama “death panel.”
Tapper is correct, though likely in a different way than he intends. Insurance companies do indeed make such decisions. However, as a free-market consumer, I have the option of finding a different company, buying suplemental insurance, or paying cash for non-covered care. I am not compelled, by government fiat, to accept the decision of said insurance company bureaucrat. Under Obamacare, it appears such options will immediately or eventually cease to exist. Well-intentioned or not, the practical application of cost-controls will demand the government denies care based on some sort of perceived value of life left.
So, the questions become, are we so sure of the intentions of those writing and applying these laws that we’re willing to blindly trust they are pure? And do we want to open the door to the possibility of life or death health care decisions made by government ruling, rather than free exercise of personal choice? It seems to me this is an area the government should be forbidden to enter because the potential downside is certainly a long way down. How long before pre-birth testing results in “coached” abortions if the child will have medical complications that will drain money from the system for undetermined years? Think a government can’t go that far? Are you sure you want to risk it? I’m certainly not.
The slippery slope exists and this health care plan is fully built all over it.

Britains Health Care system employs 1.4 million people and is the 3rd largest employer in the world, that’s right 3rd largest in the entire world. You can’t read a British Newspaper without seeing some new horror happing in the NHCS. Seniors recieve the worst care.

Palin has no ground to say no. Shut up! go home! BTW, you don’t have to kill animals to survive.

Tina
I am a CPA and an Engineer, been in top manager for a top 500 Company but who cares. It won’t matter under Obamacare…We will be just numbers!
I have a son who a diabetic, so yes I am worried I may lose my insurance. That is why I have several businesses on the side to ensure I have extra income to pay for the costs if something should happen. I am not just sitting around waiting for the government to bail me out!!

Where is integrity in journalism…ABC is pathetic. I turned my TV off last May of 2008 and refuse to watch main stream media. George Soros has paid off the media, I sold 1 TV kept my second TV and leave FOX NEWS on 24 hours a day…NEVER turning it off. I refuse to watch movies…will never ever give my money to Hollywood. I am done. Occasionally, look at ABC.com to check out their stories and of coarse it never changes. ABC news is nothing but Obama Media and a Gossip show. Thank God for FOX.

“You can’t read a British Newspaper without seeing some new horror happing in the NHCS” – The UK has higher infant survival rates and life spans than the U.S. according to the CDC. The UK press is notorious for its yellow journalism. Dont trust the media for your facts. Look it up for yourself unless you are only interested in justifying your ideology. Infant mortality is too important for that.

Lee Mobley: If what you suggest about IQ were to actually become the case, then surely Palin would be one of the first to go.

California Granny, tom said “Great, a person who thought that Africa is a country and can see Russia from Alaska is giving advice on health care.”
Palin indeed said you could see Russia from Alaska. Tina Fey said she could see Russia from her house.
You owe tom an apology.

Poor Sarah and her followers are so pathetic. None of her followers are bright enought to see how unintelligent she is. Sarah thinks, with her limited intelligence,that she can restore white America. Sorry Sarah and company, no one is going anywhere, leave your stupid comments in the toilet!Obama is your president whether you like it or not. You may want to take lessons about leadership from him.

Thank you for speaking out against Obama’s “healthcare” plan. It is a frightening time in America when genocide is embraced by Congress and the
White House . May God bless you and America so that it will continue to be the land of the free. The proposed plan should only apply to the Obama , Pelosi and Reid families.

I’ve tried to read through the House Bill, and it’s something Rube Goldberg would be proud of.
In general, money would be diverted from seniors to people the government likes better, like illegal aliens and women wanting free abortions. BO keeps saying if you like your doctor and your health care, you can keep it, but the House Bill says it’s grandfathered in, and if for any reason you lose it, you can’t get another private plan, you MUST take the public plan.
I used to work in medical records, and Medicare is one of the main reasons health care costs have risen like they have, so why do lefties want the whole country on something like it but even worse? Military retirees complain about their health care constantly – long waits, dirty hospitals, etc.
I thought Jake Tapper was reasonable, but I can see he’s just another shill for BO and the Dems.

You guys just keep on watching Fox “news” until it eats your entire brains out.

OKAY, GANG A BI-PARTISAN NOTE
I have fallen into the same trap at times but I suggest we remember two things -
1 – The beauty of the paragraph. Some of you have made comments that I just can’t read because they are four inches of text uninterrupted by any break.
See how nice it is to divide each individual though into a separate P-a-r-a-g-r-a-p-h. There are some places in these forums where you can’t do that. Let’s take advantage of them.
2 – we are supposed to be discussing the article about the smear campaign against the bill and the tactic of the opponents to lie shamelessly.
If we wish to discuss the other plans or how much we fear that which no one is proposing we should probably go the general discussion of health care reform were such wild speculation wouldn’t be off-topic.

To Grant: As Bill Mayer says, he will show you President Obama’s orignial birth certificate if Sarah Palin would show us her high school diploma.”
Case closed!!

Jake, are you REALLY saying that because Palin brings up her Down Syndrome child in the context of how that child may be affected by Health Care Policies as determined by our Government, that opens him up to personal ridicule?!
Please, for your professional sake – reconsider!
Respectfully,
Kelley Faler

?The thing that concerns me the most is this. What if this bill sucks? What if they pass it and it becomes law….and it is really bad for everyone. How do you unwind something like this?
We can’t flip a switch and go back to the way it was..so maybe we should at least talk about this a little longer.
Why must they pass a bill that has not had any real debate other than you are either for it or against it? ” protesters” are actually concerned about items they read in the bill and would like to voice opposition to them.
Why can’t we have this debate?

This woman is an idiot and a moron and any one that would support her or god forbid vote for her as president is just as stupid as she is!

Tapper – chew on this
PAGES 425-430, HB 3200, HEALTHCARE
page 425, lines 17-19 & page 426, lines 1-3: Gov. provides approved list of end-of-life list of resources…
Page 427, lines 15-24: Gov. mandates program for orders for end-of-life.
Page 429, all: sets up which doctors can sign orders for end-of-life…. and what treatment an elder or handicapped person may or may not recieve….

OB-Wan: RE: If we wish to discuss the other plans or how much we fear that which no one is proposing we should probably go the general discussion of health care reform were such wild speculation wouldn’t be off-topic.
I think a little FORESIGHT is in order when it comes to discussing policy on healthcare. It is kinda like PREVENTATIVE CARE.
BTW Do you like my nice, neat, short paragraphs?
Kelley

More Sarah Derangement Syndrome. Read her article, it is PERFECT.

Obama is a loser, Pelosi is an idiot, and its a waste of time to debate with liberals.
Obama ran on an anti-war platform. We had the deadliest month in Afghanistan and I still don’t know why we’re there.
Obama called himself an outsider. He brought in ppl that are career corrupt politicians and he brought in Wall Street into the white house = endless bailouts while the common America is still unemployed or underemployed.
Obama ran on change. I’ll give him that one. He is completely changing America. Conservatives want to compare Obama to Hitler because of his way to manipulate facts, and understands the importance of the media and propaganda to fool people; he’s actually more like Chairman Mao. Mao killed more people on accident in his Great Leap Forward. Obama’s Change will completely bankruptcy America and leave America reeling in perpetual depression and debt. Interestingly, like Mao, Obama will think this is what’s best for the country.

wow the far right is really terrified… while i pity them for their complete idiocy, it is reassuring to know that the tables have turned… the republicans and right wing terrorists of this country have always been the most irrationally scared and fearful and negative segment of our society, so it is no wonder they are being used by the corporations and their lobbyists to keep the wheels of greed going… obamas health care plan is not ideal beacuse it lacks a single payer option but it is much better than the sicko health care system we have now

I really wish that the media would do some real digging into the issues instead of trying to help Obama push his health care plan through. Sowell is absolutely right and we should be scared of what the government will do with our health care. I’m an American who has been living the past 10 years in a former communist country and I can tell you the socialized medicine is one of the most frightening things I’ve had to experience. If you think the insurance companies are bad, just hand it all over to the government. It will be a disaster that will be hard, if not impossisble, to reverse.

It appears to this observer that Mr. Tapper has not read the bill, and Gov. Palin, or her truisted advisor, has.

“Just because Palin is considered attractive doesn’t mean she’s an idiot” – Your right. If I saw someone who looked like her walking down the street I would probably think that she looks like a reasonable, intelligent person. Its when she opens her mouth that the image goes away very quick.

U are going to destroy the best country this earth has ever seen. We’ve done more for all people than any other country. The most charity through out the world, more humanitarian missions than any other country. So, when u destroy this country ur not only hurting us, u will destroy people all over the world.
200yrs of freedom wasted…Thanks!

To momoftwins:
Most of the current data suggests that there is no correlation between vaccination and autism. It was a myth at best.
Secondly, think about what you are saying. Your doctor today waived the vaccination because there is no overseeing authority that says it must be done. Under a government controlled system, that authority (yours) is pre-empted by a bureaucracy — they decide what is good for you or not.
Suppose for a moment that despite the publication of all the recent findings about vaccinations are conclusive to not cause autism, but you still do not wish to risk the possibility of autism (for whatever reason). That choice is no longer yours. Your children will be required to have them. Period. After all the government knows better, right?
To Jake:
How about asking a tough question of the administration for once? Or are you just a pretty face? Heck, there are 1000 pages of nuggets and gems in this abomination of a bill. Make Gibbs sweat or are you all bark and no bite. When did the news media get so weak. There’s an exposed jugular here…. go for the throat.

This whole thing is not about the economy or reform it’s about POWER!!!
Posted by: jann |
Post of the day. Thanks jann.

“I think a little FORESIGHT is in order when it comes to discussing policy on healthcare…” – Kelley
Yea, but in the world of on-line communication there is such a thing as on-topic and off-topic posts. Otherwise I could hijack this discussion and start spamming about Bushisms – “And I, unfortunately, have been to too many disasters as president.” –George W. Bush, June 17, 2008
Hey, I’m not a moderator, I’m just saying we’re getting a little far afield from the article about liars and the smear campaign.
It is kinda like PREVENTATIVE CARE.
BTW Do you like my nice, neat, short paragraphs?
Kelley
Posted by: Kelley Faler | Aug 7, 2009

Obama has some reather ghoulish characters invovled at high levels in his administration. Science Czar John Holdren argued in his book “Ecoscience” that human children do not deseve to be considered as “human beings” until a certain level of maturation has taken place. Certainly Trig Palin would not be considered “human” in his definition.
Also, Ezekiel Emanuel, heavily involved in health care planning has stated that the government can only make health care cost effective by denying care to the elderly.
Jake needs to look a little deeper.

Rock Against Obama. He’s a fraud and a fake. His brainwashed minions will lead you to believe otherwise. They’re deranged and the elite leftwing have manipulated their limited capacities for independent thought to recruit agents to bring them into your cause. Communists have long believed that if you tell a lie long enough, people will start to believe it.

“It appears to this observer that Mr. Tapper has not read the bill, and Gov. Palin, or her truisted advisor, has.” – materialist
I didn’t say they didn’t read it. I just know that they’re lying about.

Wow. There are some nasty comments here.

Hey Jake, I’ve been meaning to ask you, Why don’t you confront Obama on the fact that his Justice Dept dropped charges against black panther party members who committed civil rights violations against potential white voters, and while you’re at it, why don’t you confront Obama on the ILLEGAL firing of ispectors general, Gerald Walpin who was investigating Obama crony, Sacramento Mayor, Kevin Johnson for corruption. Incidently, the guilty Johnson settled out of court by paying back over 70K out of his own pocket.

“I find it absolutely amusing that these hypocrite liberals have a problem with Sarah Palin hunting for food, but could care less about Obama voting twice to deny born alive babies live saving medical treatment.
Seems that once again the libs have their priorities severely confused.”
Palin was hunting for sport. If she needs food she can go to the supermarket. And Obama voted twice to prevent Republicans from trying to indirectly weaken RoeVWade when laws protecting born alive babies were already in place.
It seems once again that right-wingers can’t comment without distortion.

SaosinUndead wrote: “Communists have long believed that if you tell a lie long enough, people will start to believe it.”
I didn’t know Sarah Palin was a communist!

“BTW Do you like my nice, neat, short paragraphs?” – Kelley
I forgot to mention – Yes, very nice. Keep them coming as long as they’re not just the same old whine-and-moan about BO being President and discusses the smear campaign against the bill.

O.K. Witless from Wasilla just couldn’t sit this one out and let her Repube rival, Mindless from Minnesota, get the headlilnes. Time to go home and talk to your mirrors ladies.

“The actual figures for allocation of health care funds isn’t in the bill itself” – Then why are you trying to “fill in the blanks” with speculation? The bill also doesnt promise free ice cream, but am I to oppose it on those grounds? Our current health system is bunkrupting and killing us and you are dealing in hypotheticals? Get real.

I just read the whole PDF copy of the Bill and is exactly at stated! over 1000 pages of JUNK!!

Whoa – anybody noticing how the press was horrible to her kids a while ago, and now she’s putting one back out there?

The US has the best health care in the world.
The Left’s talking point on this is we worse health care because we have worse outcomes. THIS IS A SHAMELESS LIE.
First off, health care quality does not correlate to large differences in LE or IM; lifestyle and diet is much more important. Americans live harder. Secondly, life expectancy and infant mortality are not recorded the same way in every country; what we call a live birth and subsequent death is not recorded as a birth in most countries — and it says so right in the WHO and OECD reports. Finally, the differences in IM and LE between all modern industrialized countries are so small they are not statistically significant.

“Why would anybody in congress read a bill that would take two days to read, and two lawyers to understand?” – Joseph
Huh, because it’s their job? ‘Course anyone who isn’t a neophyte knows that lawmakers don’t actually read the bills, but they hire people on their staff who have some legal background to read the bill and explain it to them.
I have no doubts that Rep. Blackwood knows very well that his representations about the bill are complete bald-face lies because he has a staff that would warn him if he were about to publish something that wasn’t true.
If they didn’t he should fire them and apologize for printing the lies that are so apparent with only a minimum of effort.

“there are going to be “death panels” that decide whether you get treatment or are only eligible for euthanasia. How do we know? Because this already happens in Oregon.” – What in the world does Oregon have to do with this bill. Tell me in the health care reform bill where it says that “what goes on in Oregon doesnt stay in Oregon.” Otherwise stop spreading your baseless propaganda. Healthcare reform is too important for political posturing.

For those of you outraged about government involvement in health care, it’s too bad you don’t have the same outrage about how the business of health care is conducted in the US.
Posted by: xenoc |
I am outraged by the way master card and visa do business but I don’t want the government issuing credit cards.
The government is already the biggest player in the “business of health care”. Let’s review. Medicare? bankrupt. Medicaid? bankrupt. VA? disgraceful (and probably broke).
Wanna be fooled again?

When you look at actual medical outcomes, it quickly becomes very obvious we ahve the best medical system in the world. We have the best cancer survvial rates, the best diagnostics, and the shortest waiting times for specialist care.
The free market works.
“Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.”

Something is better then nothing. All those people that are complaining must have real good heath care, lots of money or a government sponsered plan now. If you really want to see some angy people invite people without medical insureance to the next town hall meeting.

QB WAN22
Apparently you missed the sarcasm of my post quoting John Conyers.
I am well aware why our elected officials should be reading all of these Bills.

Mr. Tapper you are clueless.
You are naive
You are gutless

And another thing, our health care started getting more expensive when Ted Kennedy brought in the HMO’s to the system. It was universal care light. That’s when they started rationing care and doing it as more of a business than caring about us as patients. Now he writes another plan that’s even worse and we will have less choices and a level and quality of life that will be just crappy. And for Sarah Palin bashers she is us, and we are just like Sarah. So when you say how stupid or what a hick, you are describing us in a way and we don’t think highly of that at all. So, you think your so much better than us think again. Karma is something else when it comes back at cha. Oh and it will it always does. I think the president should apologize to us after he told us to shut up, nice. Jake how come you aren’t reporting and bashing him for that? Real classy. No you can just bad mouth Sarah Palin for stating a fear and a fact, and you know it will happen like that because these czars are extremists. We also have those fears and you should too. Didn’t you just have a baby? And you would trust these people with your baby and your wife if they get sick? I don’t and I will fight this thing to the end.

Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann; now THERE’s a pair to draw to. All they need is Ann Coulter, and they could be the new Supremes of the right wing phobia set. They do such a great job of advancing rational thought and constructive conversation about important issues.
Obama’s Death Panels. Yeah, right! Come on people!

The CDC and the WHO report that post-partum infant survival rates are lower in the U.S. Post-partum means after birth. In terms of life expectancy we live an average of 2 to 3 years less than other industrialized nations. You call that insignificant? Regarding life style effecting life expectancy you claim we life shorter lives because we “live harder,” then how do you explain France’s longer life spans? They smoke like chimneys, drink like fish and eat like … anyway you get the picture. You cited the WHO as a source – you should know they ranked the French health system as the best in the world, based in part on outcomes. In addition, the French pay less per capita for their health system. Come on – stop trying to twist data to support a inefficient bloated US health system.

Hey have you ever noticed that moms care about and talk about their kids. And when you have one with special needs, well they are that much more special to them. We worry about what will happen in years to come when we are no longer around. Don’t you? And from what I have been reading, Mrs. Palin isn’t the only American voicing her concerns. So why don’t you let up on her!

Good for Sarah Palin. I love it when she puts the liberals in a frenzied, paranoid mode. It’s highly entertaining to watch them react like the desperate, jealous idiots they are.
Palin , Malkin, Bachmann, should be running the White House, and Congress.

“Apparently you missed the sarcasm of my post quoting John Conyers.” – Joseph
Sorry, sarcasm is difficult to pull off in a written medium as immediate as a forum. Usually there’s a tip-off like a LOL or :). The drier it is the more likely it is to be misunderstood.
But sorry.

“And for Sarah Palin bashers she is us, and we are just like Sarah” – Hero worship is a dangerous thing. I’m from South Georgia and we wrote the book on folksy populists. They are usually not what they seem. She may end up dumping you just like she did poor old McCain and the state of Alaska.

Many of you are critical of our elected officials for not reading the bill. Have you read it?
Exerpts the Health Care Bill
• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Ever y person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services

A government that is arrogant enough to take over car companies, fire a CEO, take over banks, ram through $1 trillion dollar stimulus as campaign payback cash, AND pass a bill that essentially eliminates private insurance while taking over 16% of our economy…..IS very much a government arrogant enough and capable enought to CONTROL end of life decisions whether it is written in the actual bill now or not.
Currently, I’d like to kill this bill mostly on the arguments about the costs, the single-payer goal, govt overriding doctor/patient decisions, and private insurance elimination….
However, I believe Palin is absolutely correct to predict a potential outcome of the bill being something along the lines of an Obama “death panel” based simply on the actions, arrogance, and chutzpah that has already presented itself with our current government.

KMDay-
I am not attempting to be provacative here. I would just like us to get to a real debate of what we are hoping to achieve verses what all of the costs we as a society will pay.
Sincerely,
CRB
Posted by: CRB | Aug 8, 2009 12:16:05 AM
==================================== CRB, I understand your point. My statistical posting was a counter to someone stating that our healthcare is horrible because we have a higher infant mortality rate than the UK.
I wanted to point out that their mortality rate is 6.0/1,000 and they have a population of merely 61 million whereas the US infant mortality rate is 7.8/1000 but our population is 305+ million.
To compare the two is absurd unless you adjust for the obvious HUGE discrepancy in population to the point that the US has only 5x more people than does the UK.
Does that make sense or am I missing your point?

Actually, Palin’s forte is whipping her followers into a paranoid frenzy. Remember how her cries of “palling around with terrorists” incited her desperate, zealous audiences?
Posted by: WWW | Aug 8, 2009 12:48:22 AM=====================================
Kind of like Obama, Michelle and their followers calling those who call him out or disagree with him racists for doing so?
Hmmmmmm….. same principle, right?

Sarah needs to get on her broom and fly back to Alaska where she belongs!
Posted by: Tim Hall | Aug 8, 2009 12:45:23 AM===============================
Uhhhh…..Nancy Pelosi has the broom right now as she flies back to her bankrupt state of California with her $16 million earmark to save a friggin rate in tote!

Theoren wrote: “As a fellow Alaskan who happens to hunt, I can tell you, at 5.99 a pound for “choice” sirloin steak, anyone who doesn’t hunt is a fool.”
As governor, Palin had plenty of money to cover those $5.99 a pound steaks. She pocketed more than $17,000 taxpayer dollars by exploiting the per diem loophole and reimbursing herself $60 a day for staying at home to eat.

“To compare the two is absurd unless you adjust for the obvious HUGE discrepancy in population to the point that the US has only 5x more people than does the UK.” – I am not sure of your point. Ratios are not effected by the size of the sample if they are both in the millions. Even the conservative CIA factbook cites the U.S. as being 20th in infant survival rates. All the countries ahead of us have national health plans. Epidemiologists use this kind of data to judge the value of interventions. Our country’s health system stinks when it comes to keeping babies alive.

OB-Wan222 “Your 2% is dubious but, setting that aside, you completely ignore “defensive” medicine.”
- Foghorn Leghorn
Dubious based on what? Your intimate knowledge of the malpractice industry? Or your refusal to accept the truth? In a previous incarnation I spent over 10 years on the front lines.
Think about it for a split-second. What’s the average budget for a hospital in this country multiplied by the total number of hospitals? What’s the total number of multi-million dollar settlements in this country in a year? And hospitals are just a tiny slice of the health care pie. Still think that 2% is a streach?
What the “tort reform” crowd ignores is the fact that the medical industry doesn’t police itself. Neither does the insurance industry. The bad doctors pay more premuims but they just keep on being bad doctors because no one will pull their license after multiple “bad outcomes”.
There’s an area where reform could save lives.

Could someone PLEASE put a cork in Sarah Palin! She had nothing intelligent or substantive to say during her ill-fated bid at the Vice Presidency. She bailed on the citizens of Alaska. What we don’t need is any more of her hot air.

“and how about the provision in the Bill that allows for taxpayer funded abortion? I don’t care to pay for some irresponsible lowlifes inability to abstain or use protection.”
Read the article in Esquire this month about Dr. Hern.
And may you be born again as a poor woman who’s abused and raped and has no insurance. Or may you be born again with a heart.

You can’t insure 50 million more people and not decrease costs. Not possible without reducing services. And who would do that. The National Health Advisory Council, made up of Zek Manual types and their buddies. When you hit 80, be sure to take your pain pill and don’t ask for surgery, you won’t get it.

Palin is evil.
Enough said.

“You can’t insure 50 million more people and not decrease costs. Not possible without reducing services” – If you make the system more efficient and remove some of the insurance company profit margins it may be possible.

johnnylee – There she goes again opening her dumb ass mouth without fully knowing the issue.
**************************************
You mean like STUPID Obama, who stated “he didnt know all of the facts” yet in the same breath said “the police acted stupidly”
I’ll take Palin over this incompetent usurper,snake oil peddler Obama any day of the week.

OMG. The level of disinformation and pure BS on this page is appalling. Republicans are against this plan because of purely political motives. They hope to use fear over this issue to reverse the landslide of voters deserting their party and they are lying through their teeth in a desperate attempt to avoid becoming politically irrelevant. The fact is, our health care is rationed now, by insurance companies. We pay for uninsured people to get treatment, at a cost of $1000/ hour in the emergency room. The Canadian health care system is the most popular government program enacted in that country. Canadians have had several opportunities to change it and have voted overwhelmingly to keep it.

Again, straight from the bill as it reads today. American Tax Payers, if the bill passes as is, will shell out Billions of their tax Dollars so that Hospitals and Doctor’s Offices will be MORE Inclinded to HIRE, RETAIN and EDUCATE Minorities-Who cares about who is most qualified for the position, it is all about skin color. This in turn means that our hard earned money is taken from you and given to to another based soley on the color of their skin, not on their ability to perform the job at hand with expertise and/or experience! Now, who keeps making our society about race? Hint: The Democrats wrote this bill with Obama’s approval!
“A medical school should have a demonstrated record of training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups.” Again, it is not about who is most qualified for the medical school entrance, it is again about skin color.
On page 884-885 the bill states:
“In awarding grants and contracts . . . the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of training . . . individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds . . . .”
On page 889-890 the bill states:
“In awarding grants or contracts under this section, the Secretary shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: . . . Training individuals who are from underrepresented minority groups or disadvantaged backgrounds.”

“(And frankly, I agreed with Palin previously, when she was asking members of the media to keep her children out of any public debate.)”
Since she’s making this about HER situation and HER child, couldn’t she pay for Trig’s healthcare out of HER own pockets? Or is his precious life not quite that precious?

I love it when people insult Palin’s intelligence. That’s something kids do in elementary school. It proves the point that her critics are so afraid of her they cannot argue on issues but only resort to calling her names. She will have the last laugh. She will revitalize the conservative movement that is the true majority in America but has been allowing the Republicans to be their voice. The Republicans have failed them. There are some great voices emerging. Watch.

“It is not just millions-it is UK with 65 million versus the US with 305+ million” – OK, its been a while since I have had a stats class but here is my understanding: It is possible to compare three percent of a billion to say seven percent of say, a trillion if you a dealing with rates, not absolute numbers. Thats why the low infant survival rates in the U.S. can be compared to other countries. As I said before, epidemiologists use these stats to do international compare interventions for all kinds of conditions: cancer, heart disease, and … infant mortality. Just check an issue of the New England Journal of Medicine or Lancet.

Again, those who can afford their own health insurance aint the ones barely making enough everyday. Those are the ones who can make bonus. And those who can’t afford health insurance are those working on the ground floor and making no bonus but minimum wage. Who will take care of their health? Those being wealthy, like this lady Palin, can simply disagree a proposal that she doesn’t need that benefit from it. Shame one her. Go home and have David Letterman’s jokes.

Re: Mike | Aug 8, 2009 1:14:43 AM
I agree. Especially the one posted Aug 8, 2009 12:46:07 AM. This looked exactly like one I got from a doctor who provides oral and facial surgery. (BTW, very salty health care.) But when I open the referenced pages of the proposed ‘‘America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009’’, I don’t get the same message conveniently interpreted for me. There are some MD’s really scared of competition and losing their cash cow.

Thanks Govenor Palin for reading and understanding the death care bill. To bad so many people contintue to talk about a bill they have not even scanned, much less read, much less studied!

Would Michelle Obama be ok with seeing her senior citizen mother denied a life saving operation due to her age?
We already know that the Obamas and the rest of the Washington elite would not be subject to the same guidlines, SO WHY SHOULD WE BE?

KM day-
My goodness, you put a lot of words in my mouth ,you psychology-thesis writing intellectual.
1. Medicaid is different from state to state. Generally, it covers CHILDREN -not pregnant women.
2. In this country we spend a lot of our health care dollar on technology; high-end, cool, impressive technology. Of course, it’s at the expense of (yawn) preventive, primary care. Not screening for disease so we need to spend 1000x the cost when the disease manifests.
3.Are you really naive enough to think it has nothing to do with race or color? The white woman with the quin-sex-sep-oct tuplets gets reality show and 2 years worth of childcare and diapers. The black couple…not so much. That’s another form of rationing, by the way. No – tell me: you really think Hispanics, African-Americans, poor people have access to the same health care options that white folk do?
4. I realize now that you didn’t really debate most of my points, you just call me a “waste of air” because…what was it/ oh yeah that I don’t think a 90 yo should use up over a million dollars of our health care costs for a transplant. I don’t. Bad surgery odds, bad outcome odds. And we don’t pull money from the air, Skippy: spending it on that takes away from somewhere else.
5. I was gonna mention my bona fides for commenting on this, but I’m sure they dont’ surpass “researching for my psychology thesis”. Trust me when I say that my education and experience is just a tad more on point.

She’s really cranked up the crazy now that she’s isn’t in office.

And those who can’t afford health insurance are those working on the ground floor and making no bonus but minimum wage. Who will take care of their health?
Posted by: gaga |
Medicaid.

“Billions of their tax Dollars so that Hospitals and Doctor’s Offices will be MORE Inclinded to HIRE, RETAIN and EDUCATE Minorities…” – KMDay
You’re not telling the whole truth. There are several criteria of preferences in the awarding of grants including provisions for vets and for doctors that also teach. You try to make it sound like affirmative action is the only criteria.
That also doesn’t take into account that lots of grant money will be available for medical schools that don’t meet any of the preferences. Preferences don’t mean that you’re disqualified if you don’t meet them.
We can argue about affirmative action, as I’ve said before, no bill is going to please everyone. There is a provision for abortion.
But here’s the thing – we had an election. And you can’t deny that the American people voted for BO (and all those other Democrats) knowing his position on affirmative action and abortion. Elections have consequences.

platteman – Good one. Try a hotline to inform them of the latest bogus spin. I guess it’s not bad to fight spin. And you’re right. We do have free speech. So we can free speech report your tricks, and he can free speech get on TV and tell the fools how the GOP is lying again.

If the Bill isnt worthy enough for the Washington snob elite, then it aint good enough for me.
When Barney Frank, Michelle Obama, and Chuck Shumer are willing to watch their aged family members be forced into a hospice as opposed to recieving treatment that could give them another 20 years of life then they can talk up the bill.

Jake, you are incorrect when you say:
“Sowell’s are more reasonable arguments, though they don’t exactly emphasize that health care insurance company bureaucrats already are making such decisions.”
Insurance company bureaucrats AREN’T making the ultimate decision. The consumer is. We still have, for the time being, a relatively free market on healthcare. CONSUMERS choose what care they want by purchasing the insurance plan they like best. (putting aside the fact that Democrats over the years at both state and national levels have mandated all sorts of coverage that insurers MUST provide –thus driving up the cost of healthcare)
And if I have insurance that ends up not covering something I decide I want, I am still free to get it.
If the government under Obamacare says I can’t have something, that’s it. I cant buy it on my own. I simply cannot have it. Government bureaucrats decide if we live or die, they decide the quality of our lives, how long we must wait for care if we get it at all.
Your characterization is simply wrong and you should correct your article.

The folks against healthcare reform like to say that the cost of covering the uninsured will be too high. Well I got news for you. Do you think these 50 million uninsured don’t get sick or go to the hospital? Of course they do! And when they can’t pay the providers, the providers jack up the prices for all of us! So how much is this costing us already?Posted by: stevieb | Aug 8, 2009 1:23:09 AM========================================== 50 million is a lie in the perspective they are pushing this.
1/2 of those have access to health care and CHOOSE not to get health care. 12+ million are illegal aliens and by law are not to have access to our “stuff”. They need to go back to their own coutnry and get this there.
The number is roughly 47 million – 23million who have access = 24 million – 12 million illegal aliens=12 million.
So, we are going to screw the rest of the nation for 12 million? That does NOT Make sense.
80% of Americans LIKE WHAT THEY HAVE!

Yes, health insurance is mandatory. I thought the cons would like that. You can’t just continue to show up at the Emergency Room and then ignore the bill, which is how health care of last resort is handled now.
Requiring people to get health care insurance is making them take personally responsible. Isn’t that a good thing?
Sheesh, there’s no pleasing these people.Posted by: OB-Wan222 | Aug 8, 2009 1:25:01 AM========================== I see you are missing the point on purpose. Read the bill, the section I gave you where it states that if you have a plan the government does not approve of, you will be fined.

“Insurance company bureaucrats AREN’T making the ultimate decision. The consumer is. We still have, for the time being, a relatively free market on healthcare. CONSUMERS choose what care they want by purchasing the insurance plan they like best. (putting aside the fact that Democrats over the years at both state and national levels have mandated all sorts of coverage that insurers MUST provide –thus driving up the cost of healthcare)”…………. Bull Hockey. Seriously – just bull hockey. Choose? A portion of us have it thru work and the others take the cheapest policy they can get. Or the only one that will cover them. The dem’s merely kept the playing field equal. Viagra immediately getting covered while The Pill wasn’t might be a grand example.

“If you can link something to support your 2% stat… Meanwhile, that’s twice you have ignored the defensive medicine aspect.” – Foghorn Leghorn
First “defensive medicine” is one of those things like “govt. waste”. It can’t be measured by any objective scale and every side uses to support their argument because it can’t be confirmed.
You have to remember that I have been out of the field for some time, but 2% was the stat from various sources when I was working. And if anything the trend has been against big judgements.
How about the peer-reviewed “Health Affairs”? I mentioned peer-reviewed because they want poor people to get health care so you’re probably going to think that they are evil before you hear the news.
Legal costs are $27,000 per claim, settlements and judgments are $4.4 billion, and insurance is $700 million. The total cost of malpractice is thus 6.5 billion – .46% of health care costs, or less than one half of one percent.
Okay, so I’ve been away and instead of 2% it’s 1/2% now.

good night people…thanks for the debate!

“Sarah Palin is a hero and patriot” – I think you belittle true heroes by putting her in that catagory as true heroes such as the 9/11 firefighters. There was not a quiter among them as they climbed those staircases in the twin towers. But to each his own. However, I would caution you to not get your expectations up too much otherwise you may get left high and dry like the good folks in Alaska.

“Insurance company bureaucrats AREN’T making the ultimate decision” – I worked in the health field for ten years. I saw instances where a person with a catastrophic illness had coverage dropped by an insurance company on a technicality. Where would the person go then? No one else would provide coverage. Where is the “free market, consumer choice” then? You have obviously not had experience in the real world of U.S. healthcare. That, or you are mired in your ideology.

First “defensive medicine” is one of those things like “govt. waste”. It can’t be measured by any objective scale and every side uses to support their argument because it can’t be confirmed.
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Just because it is hard to measure doesn’t mean you can ignore it. Surely you know that some estimates are that there is 100 to 200 billion dollars spent on defensive medicine. Even the most conservative estimates would obliterate your assertion that tort reform wouldn’t save much.

OB-Wan222 hats off to you a voice of reason and truth.

“Read the bill, the section I gave you where it states that if you have a plan the government does not approve of, you will be fined.” – KMDay
And did you read the part where if you already have a plan than it’s automatically grandfathered in and therefore approved?
After that plans will have to have provisions to cover those with pre-existing conditions or those that become sick later.
Yes, health care reform includes health insurance reform, because without both you have neither.

RY you mean Thomas Sowell the Conservative Republican Political Columnist, no wonder

You have to remember that I have been out of the field for some time, but 2% was the stat from various sources when I was working. And if anything the trend has been against big judgements.
Legal costs are $27,000 per claim, settlements and judgments are $4.4 billion, and insurance is $700 million. The total cost of malpractice is thus 6.5 billion – .46% of health care costs, or less than one half of one percent.
Okay, so I’ve been away and instead of 2% it’s 1/2% now.
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Well, according to the Massachusetts Medical Society medical liability premiums are 26 billion, 52% of all awards are over one million and the average award is 4.7 million. That doesn’t sound remotely like the picture you are trying to paint here.

“The government says it will be mandatory for us to visit a federal counselor for the advance planning for our deaths. I plan to tell the government to mind it’s own damned business and keep it’s snoot out of my personal life.” – Jon
No, it’s not mandatory. they’re just saying they’ll pay for it. I participated in focus groups with seniors where we talked about Advanced Directives. like: if you’re unconscious and/or in a vegitative state, who do you want making decisions for you? Do you have specific wishes for end-of-life care/ Which, incidentallly, can be: “I want all heroic measures taken to prolong my life; I want to be kept alive until all the tubes and wires hooked up to me fail”
Most people dont’ want that, but most older people think it’s importamt to have Advanced directives in place. This has nothing to do with encouraging Grandma to die…it’s so dumb!

“liability premiums are 26 billion, 52% of all awards are over one million and the average award is 4.7 million” – If we had universal health coverage that would significantly reduce the portion of the awards that goes toward future injury-related health care. This should reduce premiums. One more reason for health reform!

What is the source of the estimates? You wanted facts – I want facts not anonymous estimates.
And you still haven’t addressed my second point about cracking down on the licensing and review of bad doctors. After all, that wouldn’t just save money it would save lives.
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Source and estimate provided in separate post.
Isn’t cracking down on bad doctors kinda duh?

“Isn’t cracking down on bad doctors kinda duh?” – When I worked in hospitals I knew surgeons who very indifferent toward their patients. I am sure the only thing keeping them honest was the treat of a suit (not all MDs, but quite a few). Since the only thing regulating them is the courtroom (med associations protect their own) what do you suggest as an alternative?

I think Meg Stapleton and Palin are saying different things. I think that the “death panel” rhetoric is over the top, but if bureaucrats say that “productivity” or “quality of life” has to be considered when deciding whether someone deserves treatment, a person with Down Syndrome is going to get a thumbs down more likely than a ‘normal’ person. I think Sarah Palin will be able to afford health care for her son, but will she always have the right to pay out of pocket if this plan passes?

As the European-based parent of an adult with Down Syndrome, I can assure you Sarah Palin’s point is valid. As our daughter has grown older, we have noticed that the medical community’s attitude towards people (not just Down Syndrome) with disabilities that can be detected in utero has gone from unsympathetic to downright accusatory (how irresponsible of you to bring this defective child into society). People who have not personally experienced the staggeringly prejudiced (and frequently ignorant) attitudes of the medical profession to people with Down Syndrome, would be shocked by doctors whose beliefs are not different from those of the doctors who first “euthanized” people with Down Syndrome in Hitler’s baby steps towards the Final Solution.
People with disabilities that cannot (or cannot YET) be diagnosed prior to birth (cerebral palsy, autism, etc.) do not YET form the focus of the widespread campaign to deny their most basic human rights like people with Down Syndrome, spina bifida and other disabilities detectable prior to birth.
I attended a meeting here in Europe, where parents of people with Down Syndrome met the “leading physicians” carrying out research into Down Syndrome.
When a parent asked if any progress was being made into “curing” Down Syndrome, a “distinguished” professor explained how improved methods of detection were translating into earlier termination, thereby decreasing the number of late-term abortions. Parents complained that “killing the patient” is not a cure. The professor looked absolutely astonished that a parent could be so stupid…

Well, gee, Mark, the MMS that you pointed to says in “HEALTH CARE AT THE CROSSROADS: Strategies for Improving the Medical Liability System and Preventing Patient Injury” which was published in 2005 that:
“It is estimated that at least $28 billion is spent each year on the interrelated combination of medical
liability litigation and defensive medicine.”
So they said just four years ago that legal costs and this nebulous defensive medicine combined was at least $28 billion. Do you think they wer low-balling the number? Do you think that maybe they left off a zero? Or do you think that the costs increased 150% every year for four years?
I mean, which numbers do they want us to believe?
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Are you on the tort reform bandwagon yet?
And maybe you can find the 2008 report from MMS. It’s not hard. Krauthammer links it.

“And maybe you can find the 2008 report from MMS. It’s not hard. Krauthammer links it.” – Foghorn Leghorn
Well, why don’t you give me the link. After all I told you which document I found with the full title. Can you not give me the same?
Let me ask you – have you looked at this 2008 report or are you just taking someone else’s word for it?
It’s possible that we can’t see it. Some reports require you to have a membership. You would know that if you did your own research.

“widow” 2:54
Wait’ll you see Obama’s plan for YOU!

What a horrid woman.
18000 Americans die every year because they have NO health care. What about them??

One more comment on Rahm’s brother Dr. Zeke,, Obama’ senior advisor on health care advisor.
These orwellian ideas of his are the centerpiece of his career, not just an aside.
Dr. Zeke Emanual is a “medical ethicist” his entire career is about making decisions on right and wrong when deciding how much health care someone deserves.
Dr. Zeke tells us what he believes and those death panels palin describes are exactly what he believes.
If you don’t believe that buy the book he wrote and read it before it is too late, or look up his articles in the respected british medical journal, ‘THE LANCET”.
Don’t take anyone’s prettied up interpretation on this you need to see yours and your family’s future for yourself, and you will when you read the writings of Obama’s senior advisor on providing health care, who is also assigned to the budget office to help lower costs on health care, after you read his writings you will know exactly how he intends to do that
This is too important to rely on the media hope and change interpretations ….see it for yourself.

“Wait’ll you see Obama’s plan for YOU!” – Wait until you see the private insurance companies’ plan for you if you have a pre-existing condition. Wait a minute – there wont be one.

Palin’s comments may not have been artfully stated, but the basic premise of her argument has to be true if there is to be real cost containment in the government plan. Health insurance companies do that now, but there are many options to obtain the coverage to pay for whatever ailment one would have despite this point. Jake Tapper completely misses this point in the name of trying to appear apolitical and “level-headed”.
What Palin argues is inevitable in Obama’s “health care reform”. It has to be if the system is to address rising costs. With respect to Trig in Obama’s health care plan, it is logical to abort such babies who will only add cost to the system. This decision to abort to save money is evil. No private health insurance advises mothers to abort because their baby is disabled. This inevitably would have to happen in Obama’s plan in an effort to control costs. We know this because that is what is happening in other socialistic health care systems in England, Germany, etc. Tapper appears to be quite naive of the ramifications of Obama’s plan by characterizing Palin’s Facebook comments as ridiculous or extreme. The argument she makes is not ridiculous, but inevitable in a socialized medical system.

“name one area where the Feds have put their fingers into things that has not become an absolute nightmare” – OK, Medicare. Compared to private insurers they are a model off efficiency and compassion (from my experience working in a hospital). Now here is one for you: Name one private insurer that will sell you quality, reasonably priced coverage if you have a serious pre-condition.

Sarah Palin ismaking statements without doing any research for facts, not even reading the page of the bill her people source. Her habit of making unfounded claims to instill fear inn people continues even after having lost the election of 2008. Some people just don’t learn from experience. She certainly hasn’t.
She, again, brings her children into the converstion and then criticizes others for making remarks that include them. The media should not give credence to her unreasoned thoughts by reporting on her. Just ignore her!

“…it is logical to abort such babies who will only add cost to the system. This decision to abort to save money is evil. No private health insurance advises mothers to abort because their baby is disabled. This inevitably would have to happen in Obama’s plan…” – Malcom Z
As a famous American once said – there you go again.
You’re debating a plan that doesn’t exist. You’re assuming conditions that don’t exist. We are talking about the bill that passed through committee in Congress. There is NOTHING in that bill that comes close to saying anything like what you are suggesting, is there?
IF you want to spend your time talking about the shape, size and dress of the bogeyman under the bed then go ahead but the rest of us aren’t going to spend our time discussing how to deal with a problem that doesn’t exist.

My wife and I are in our 60′s. Self Employed. Our insurance premiums are $920 a month…about $11,000 a year. Before we can collect one cent from our insurance company my wife or I have to spend an additional $4000 in medical fees.
That’s our deductible.
So, to get a reimbursement for a mere $100 from Blue Shield we have to pay the insurance company $14,000 every year.
Most people get a hand from their employer and the government on their insurance premiums. So I can understand why a lot of people are happy with what they have now.
But for us…and millions of self employed older people, the American health care system (and insurance is part of it) is BROKEN.
I welcome anything that will help reduce our premiums.
I don’t hear anything from the Republicans except belly aching about how bad a government system like medicare is.
I’ve read their proposal and it sounds like they’d like to create a website on healthy living and maybe find some way to encourage Americans to live better.
More jogging, less eating…stuff like that. That’s all fine but what I want is a decent health care plan…now…not 5 or 10 years from now when I’ll be on Medicare anyway.
Private health insurance isn’t going to offer me anything.
If you don’t believe me, just call a private insurance company and ask them what their health insurance premiums on someone who is 70 or 80 years old would be.
That should end the debate on whether medicare can do a better job than private insurance companies.

“Zeus Charles”,
I don’t care if Palin is a national figure or ever becomes one. Whether she states it as current fact or some “remote possibility” is BS. The basic point is that rationed health care by the government presents the population with ONLY ONE OPTION – what the government decides. Currently, if you get hired with an employer with health care benefits, you are not going to be denied health care coverage. You have a choice of employer.

People with pre-exisiting conditions must be denied coverage or pay higher premiums because if this did not happen, no one would get insurance until they were sick! The answer to is to either accept the current state or force evceryone to be covered. And forcing everyone to be covered includes undocumented workers who currently pay nothing and are putting hosptials in states like California and Texas on the verge of bankruptcy.

Mark from Atlanta – Medicare is effective at low cost administration, not low cost health care. In other words, the reason they are low cost administrators os because they do absolutely nothing to manage the demand curve, they just pay for every procedure done without seeking to manage the course of treatment. This drives up toal cost.

So Govt has done a spectacular job in running SS, medicare etc and now Obamacare is even going to a even more spectacular job by sociliasing health.
The idea that 85% of Americans have to sacrifice the quality of their healthcare so that the 15% of the uninsured can enjoy free Govt health care is absurd, this is what Obama wants.
Obama wants American to accept low quality of healthcare.
Obama himself has said that Americans are spending too much on medical technologies and he wants to cut them to bring down costs.
Obama plans are the same tried in Canada where people wait months to get a CT scan appointment from the Govt run healthcare system.

Sara Palins is a dumb bimbo and should never have been allowed to be inpolitics.
Posted by: eyeonyour |
But that wouldn’t be fair since they let Nanny Pelosi be inpolitics.

“People with pre-exisiting conditions must be denied coverage or pay higher premiums because if this did not happen, no one would get insurance until they were sick!” – Hence, mandated coverage like with automobile insurance. Whats the problem with making every one pay, whether they are citizens or not?

Mark from Atlanta, read the bill. Undocumented workers do not have to have coverage.

“Undocumented workers do not have to have coverage.” – Can you give me a quote on that from the bill?

Republicans are all against stem cell research. Palin got on a plane from Texas to Alaska while in labor with a down syndrome baby, and even then drove to a distant hospital. Her lack of leadership has left countless numbers of elderly without any health care whatsoever in Alaska. To even include Palin in the debate is absurd.
These people are not rational, have no scientific evidence to support their irrational anecdotal claims, and refuse to accept that their current for-profit health care insurance is nothing but bean counters making their health care decisions.
I will not have my health care dictated by these irrational, unethical, hate mongers motivated by racism and politicism.
Name me one governmental program in America where you don’t have a choice. With capitalism, you always have a choice. Even the biggest socialist program in America, the one where you send your kids to school, you have a choice to take your socialist burden off me and pay for your own kid’s education. But, you don’t. Cause it’s cheaper for you to have me pay for your kids. Every republican should be required to pay for their own children’s education since they claim they hate the socialist program so much.

Zeus Charles,
I do not support Cap and Trade. Global warming is not inevitable. The application of what you perceive as “my logic” is inaccurate.
OB-Wan222,
A bill does exist. Abortions will be paid for by taxpayers in this bill. Intentions have been made very clear of what the president wants. Analyze the costs and what would need to be done to control them. The argument you use is intent to categorize dissent or critism of the Democratic plan as irrational or crazy. I get it.

Malcolm Z, so you disagree with 90% of the scientific community. Thus if you can do that, why cannot someone disagree that it is inevitable people will be Soylent Green if a single payer system emerges? In other words it is only inevitable it it aligns with your political beliefs.

MArk from Atlanta, people like Medicare becasue they pay for absolutely everything but the providers go broke because the reimbursement rates are to low. Medicare is a giveaway of health care that will only increase the cost curve, which is what this legislation is supposed to fix in the first place.
will you take me up on my offer regarding undocumented workers?

OB-Wan222 “A bill does exist. Abortions will be paid for by taxpayers in this bill. Intentions have been made very clear of what the president wants. Analyze the costs and what would need to be done to control them. The argument you use is intent to categorize dissent or critism of the Democratic plan as irrational or crazy. I get it.” – Malcom Z
Well, MZ I don’t think we disagree as much as you seem to think.
Yea, abortions will be paid for. (And probably birth control and Viagra too.) I said earlier that the American people knew where BO stood on abortion and affirmative action before he was elected to be President. Elections have consequences.
I do not intend to make all those that criticize the bill demons. I am out to get those that lie about what is in the bill – like Rep. Blackwood from NC and Sarah Palin.
I don’t have a problem if we have a legitimate diaagreement about where dollars should be spent or what the bill allows. This forum is supposed to be discussing the smear campaign that some opponents ahve launched that misrepresents the actual bill.
This is America. And as hard as it may be for some cons to believe as a Liberal I relish freedom of speech and debate.
As a moronic American once said – Bring it on!
But I detest dishonest debate and cheap tricks and down-right bald-face lying which is a tactic that many opponents have chosen to pursue.

“What occurred to me was that it was dang easy to find that report. Hell you found the 2005 report all by yourself. I had high hopes. Surely you have found by now though, right?”
Actually I’m getting a little bored with you so I haven ‘t bothered.
“Your 10+ years of experience at whatever hasn’t served you in this discussion. Your numbers are way off.”
And your numbers are non-existent. Where are your percentages? You haven’t been able to dispute my number except by sheer denial of cited numbers.
BTW my experience served me quite well or they probably wouldn’t have paid me 40K a year.
“Uh no. Check again.”
Uh no. Because again you are boring me. You’re not shy about saying where I’m wrong so tell me… where did you give the time and place of the Mr. K column before your previous post.
“Not your night is it?”
Actually, I’m having a ball. You guys are more fun than a Bigfoot Convention.
“I confess I didn’t think of that. And funny that you would accuse someone of making numbers up.”
You see, you say something that sounds honest and then you say something that sounds stupid. You haven’t disputed my numbers. You haven’t looked up my numbers. And yet you stubbornly refuse to give any link or title to your supposed all-knowing “2008 report” – the report that dare not speak its name. Oh you guys are more fun than a SNL skit. In fact, you resemble one.
“You need me to do the math for you too? Those numbers have been posted more than once tonight and there is every chance you will find that report one day.”
I need you to do the math for yourself. Let me explain. There are numbers like $2 or $2 billion dollars. And then there are percentages like 2% or 1/2%. You have provided no context to evaluate your numbers on liability or “defensive medicine” that compares these totals to the total health care bill in the USA. You refuse to accept percentages from sources but you refuse to provide percentages that rebut – I’ll bet you’re a Republican.
“Because ignorance is bliss?”
Well, as a new book asks, If ignorance is bliss why aren’t more people happy?

C’mon Jake! Do ya think we’re stupid or what??? England and Canada have had national health care for years. The democrats (A.K.A. national socialists) have patterned this so called health care reform after those models. Both those countries have review boards that are doing exactly what Sarah was talking about and have been for years. China has forced abortions. The Obama regime is full of people that are proponets of population control, Specifically his science advisor.

If Palin wasn’t hot, would we pay any attention to her?
Posted by: Donny Deutsch | Aug 8, 2009 5:02:53 AM
—-
What’s so hot about her? Waay overrated. I give her about a 6 on a scale of 10. She’s just not all that.

Eye Doc, I can’t speak about Britain’s system, but I lived in Canada for many years, and it’s clear to me that you haven’t. We can debate the merits if you want — but I really don’t think that your generalized and illogical response is any better than the comment you were addressing. The devil is, as always, in the details — but you didn’t bother addressing those. I’m not sure where you got the idea that folks in Canada lose their right to various treatments when they hit a certain age, but you’re WAY off. An absence of facts is a dangerous to your side of the issue as it is to the other side. You may well be right in saying that Americans would be ill-advised to give up their present system (I don’t know that I’d argue with you on that) — but not on the basis of illogical, emotional and inadequately supported generalizations concerning a foreign system about which you clearly know little. This question is too important to too many people, and we all have to put aside our desire to “win the argument” at any cost if we’re going to get anywhere at all.

Michelle Bachman of MN. and Palin is out of the same “pot”…..”crackpot”. Neither has any credibility and are “airheads” who “fooled” some idiot into voting for them…… If Palin had not lived in Alaska, she would not have been governor of any other State, and she would be in the same boat as her daughter without Healthcare for her downs syndrome baby, and I just wonder how she could have afforded Healthcare for him. Another topic, the ‘angry’ mobs and obstructionist who are Not trying to get correct information to debate are attempting to “bully” America by using scare tactics, and they call this pro-America? This is Not the American way of resolving problems, and when it stops others from “freedom of speech”, Americans calls it Anti-America. Americans calling the President Hilter is an insult to the World, not just real Americans.

MArk from atlanta,
If you have catatrospic illness, you have a chance to get scanned, treated under the private health care system.
Under the socialistic health care system you will wait along with others thousands in a queue ( as Govt tries to cut costs) and your illness will get worse leaving your suffering and probably under the system.
The socialistic health care system ( Canada, England) depends on Govt funding and since it continously runs at a loss because of cost cutting you will face a lousy low quality health care system.

Well, that seals it. If this bimbo is against something, it must be a very good idea.

Don’t you understand Tapper? If the Democrats and their ilk had their druthers there wouldn’t be a Trig Palin.

Jake has a long, long history of not liking Sarah Palin.
Sarah talks, Jake jumps in to complain.

Why do you people think that the government can run your life better than you can? Sure there are some out there that need the help, but the majority can handle their own lives. The gov’t can’t even run a simple program like the “clunker” program without major issues, you think they can run healthcare for millions? And the public “option” is a joke. Their “option” would require millions of people to drop their private healthcare and take the gov’t “option”. That doesn’t sound like an option. Read the bill, and be honest with yourselves.

Well the government has been running Healthcare for Decades now, and ask any Senior……… they are happy with their care…..Veterans are happy with their care…….and besides, “If you like your Healthcare plan and doctor, keep it, but don’t stop me from having an option of which I can afford. Good for you!

It appears as though the unemployed Witch of Wasilla is egging on the ignorant neocon base. It’s like waving a piece of meat in front of a rabid dog… Will the American people buy this tripe from the Bitter Quitter? I doubt it.

Sure, we should all listen to a beauty queen, small town mayor turned Governor who quit mid-way through her first term.

She is such a non story. She just needs to go away, just like the rest of the liars who hate that we have a Democrat in the Oval Office. We need an overhaul of the healthcare system, just like we still a redo of the financial and auto industry. I don’t think the Dems have handled any of the in this a good way, but at least they are trying. I do believe that all politicians have lost sight of their true goals…the welfare of US citizens.

Yesh the Walter Reed medical system is a great example of a Govt run health care system isn’t it. Funny Liberals want the same health care system for free that Veterans for giving many years of hard service to the nation.

I find it funny that someone will mock sarah palins qualifications. You are the same people who elected a president who has never had a real job, who experience is a “community organizer” a junior senator who voted present and never apodted or wrote any bill during his senate tenure. He is the next Jimmy Carter and I am counting down the days until January 20, 2012. I just hope he hasnt destroyed our democracy by then. Obama should do what he does best, organize community activities for boys and girls clubs of Chicago because as a President it really is a joke. And yes I am a dem.

Planet earth calling Sara.

I love how Jake and the AllBarackChannel News loves to “fact check” Mrs. Palin, but when Barry O was campaigning, they never questioned a single thing about him. Like listening to hate speech for 20 years. Suddenly, we are supposed to “trust the government”, when Barry himself demanded the end to the Patriot Act, oops, that was just campaign speak. Or saying no taxes for anyone under $250,000, or saying everyone is going to get a check (still waiting).
They love to fact check, nit pick, parse and attempt to shred Mrs. Palin while assuming that the words on page 425 mean something else. What if it doesn’t? We have been lied to by this President in 6 months more than we were lied to by the last President in 8 years.

I don’t have anything against the healthcare industry or ANY corp that makes lots of money. It’s the American way. But after what just happened on wall street makes me wonder, is healthcare going the same route. Good profits-Premiums increasing steadily-50 million uninsured AND increasing every day. How far does that situation go before something breaks? Is healthcare going to be “To Big To Fail”?

Mark from Atlanta said “the satisfaction rates for Medicare are higher than with private insurance.” Just because they may be higher, doesn’t mean they are good. People are satisfied with Medicare if they purchase supplemental insurance to cover what Medicare doesn’t. And Medicare is nearly bankrupt. The reimbursement rates are below cost. Providers lose money on nearly EVERY procedure. That’s why private insurance got so nasty with coverage – providers were cost shifting to them to cover the shortfalls in Medicare/Medicaid payments. (And I would know – I set the pricing in a provider setting – it was common practice in the late 80′s/early 90′s).

Sarah Palin is still around? Wow– and she thinks people care what she has to say? That’s narcissism for ya.

Ohio Granny, if you think Obama and Biden have lied to you more in the last six months than “W” and Cheney did in the previous eight years, you’re in worse need of psychotherapy than Palin is — and she’s in rough shape. I always love it when someone responds to criticism of one person by criticizing another. So, okay — let’s say you’re right that Obama and company deserve criticism, for a variety of valid reasons. I don’t disagree, but do you seriously expect me to accept that because Obama isn’t measuring up, Palin somehow IS? Please! Tell you what. Here’s a little scenario to think about: imagine you don’t know who Sarah Palin is — never heard of her. She shows up at your door one day, introduces herself as a candidate for federal office, and then proceeds to say to you some of the things she said in her interview with Katie Couric (her words, NOT Couric’s). Are you seriously going to claim that on the basis of her own actual words, you would judge her to be a fit candidate for the Vice-Presidency of the United States — or even for a position as the local dog-catcher? If so, then all possibility of intelligent discourse on these fora is pretty much over. The fact that Palin claims to be both a real Republican and a religious conservative does a major disservice to those of us who see ourselves as being either Republican or part of the religious conservative movement. Instead, perhaps we should be looking for a qualified candidate who does deserve and do credit to those labels, or at least one who can walk and chew gum simultaneously.

Mark from Atlanta said ” Compared to private insurers they are a model off efficiency and compassion (from my experience working in a hospital)”
You obviously didn’t work in the finance department. Medicare is FAR from efficient. One look at the regs tells you that. They are more convoluted (and less clear) than the IRS regs.

They will not be able to pay for this unless there is rationing. And the ones who are going to suffer are the ones who need the costliest care-seniors, disabled, etc.

Right? So what the insurance companies now do right now, and what Big Pharm does right now, is NOT rationing??? LOL, take a number please~they RATION you! You morons, they do it to make PROFITS! and they make slick brochures, and hold fancy conferences, and pay people exhorbitant, REALLY exhorbitant salaries, and BONUSES and, pay big PR and Advertising firms even more to NOT pay for your Health, you dimwits!
Listen, make a deal with ya, you give back that doggoned Medicare card, and be done with the government. You go get your friendly neighborhood insurance company and tell them how much you like them when they turn down your cancer treatment, or refused to pay for your nicotine patch when you finally decide smoking is bad for you, or when you need an organ transplant.
PUHLEEZ, this is no more about your fears of rationing and a government health care plan that it is about cupcakes.
Get over it, he is a good man, and he WON the election! Learn to live with it, you’ll be benefitting against my wishes but hey, we don’t do the discriminating.

Possum Dearie, thank you for proving my point. You assume that because I believe the Bush administration lied to us on numerous occasions, I must obviously also believe that the Obama administration is NOT lying to us and I should therefore be criticized on that basis. Sorry, wrong again. Easier to act illogically and criticize me (or others) than to address the merits seriously, right? I’ve worked within the system, and I don’t trust politicians in general, regardless of their party affiliations. You also obviously think (not having read my earlier post in which I specifically stated that I was a conservative) that I must be a Democrat. Sorry, wrong yet again. You yourself want to dismiss whatever merit my position MIGHT have by inferring that because I’m “obviously” a Democrat, I must have a personal axe to grind, whereas you supposedly don’t and your opinion is therefore deserving of more merit or attention. You suggest that because I mentioned Republicans and religious conservatives (of which, as it happens, I’m one) that I can’t be either Republican or Christian, and am therefore apparently not to be taken seriously. You’re out of luck today — wrong all the way around. You also suggest that anyone who believed anything Obama may have said on the campaign trail must be less than adult — yet you apparently believed everything McCain and Palin had to say, and that’s supposedly okay. And you seriously expect to engage in real discourse with those who don’t agree with you? Let me be clear for the record: I am a religious conservative; I vote independently rather than along party lines because I won’t support anyone I think is an idiot; I do not believe in supporting someone solely because they have the right party membership or religious affiliation. I think that if more people on both sides of the issue were willing to use their brains, rather than simply acting blindly along party lines, we’d all be better off. But it is easier, isn’t it, to respond to criticism with more criticism, and to dismiss those like me who prefer not to follow the party line when idiocy like Palin’s is running rampant. Obama’s lack of truthfulness is NOT a justification for her stupidity. She’s a problem – not because she’s a Republican, or because she’s a religious conservative, but because she’s not cut out for the job. Obama may not be either, but that doesn’t excuse Palin.

It’s only logical that the government committees set up to decide what procedures and care will be covered will need to always be looking to cut the unsustainable costs of this program. We’re adding 40 million people to the system, something has to give. We all heard with our own ears when Obama said that perhaps a pain pill should have been given to a 100 year old woman rather than a stent, even when knowing that the woman is 105 and continuing to live. It is a government committee that will be deciding who and what is covered. It doesn’t take a genius to realize who will be getting less coverage. Obama is saying the same thing Palin said except with deceptive words. Palin is saying it like it is.

Sarah is smarter than her supporters. That’s not saying a lot.

Hey, Eric, speaking of smart, I have seven years of university education and a professional degree. How much education do you have? In your view, anyone who questions this legislation must be an idiot?

As a physician, this is beyond ridiculous. These so called conservatives are lacking any education on civics, health care and economics.
Albeit that this may adversely affect me but the common good is much more important. We need the public option to drive down costs. Nobody is doing it now. The only people that want the costs down are citizens but we defer that obligation to insurance companies that are happy to pass the cost to all of us. Average health care for a healthy family $12,000/year now and $24,000/year in 10 years.
We are rated #39 in the world with health care while France which includes everything and a much healthier population is #1 in the world. Ohh, and there per capita cost is 1/3 of ours.
If America is serious about it’s future, adopt a similar health care plan and our health care will be reduced from 17% of GDP to around 10% of GDP. That is a huge stimulus to all businesses and families.
Let’s get our facts straight and get rid of these idiots like Palin and Bachman. These are very dangerous and treasonous people.

Palin is just another celebrity community activist. It’s not as if she’s an elected government official…

Sarah makes up BS out of whole cloth & that’s why no one takes her seriously anymore.
Death panels for Trig. ROFLMAO
Funny how Sarah defends the insurance industry which commits some of the very sins that she fears on a daily basis.
The days of getting the population at large to keep voting against their own financial interest is over & this is why Sarah has zero chance of ever being president.
Just wait until she runs home crying because some comedian takes a shot at her for that stupid death panel comment. She’s the one that keeps using her children to push her warped agenda.

Wow, there are people out there who still believe this woman?! Let me guess, you voted for GW Bush as well? I want to defend my fellow Americans’ reputations when I travel abroad, but those of you who take every word Sarah says as gospel truth make it very difficult…also, I’m guessing many of you will be on Medicare soon, so here’s my memo – please don’t take government-subsidized health care, it will make you an evil socialist. Also, you’ll be saving the rest of us tax dollars.

Is Tapper a bend over guy for all things obama? Palin is correct about rationing. It’s happened in Germany before and during WW2 why not here. obama scares the Jesus out of me. He’s a rookie who should still be in the minor leagues. 46 year old men don’t have the intelligence or life experience to lead a nation. Gee I didn’t think I find myself agreeing with Palin but in this instance I have.

Chris Matthews got the world to see who Michelle Bachman was. Look at her….I see CRAZY. And while we’re at it…look at all the “Angry” people red faced, and spitting at these meetings. Surreal, uhm . Looks as though these people are from another planet. Doesn’t look or act Americans.

David’s accurate assessment needs to be repeated -
Exerpts the Health Care Bill
• Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Ever y person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll BR • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited from owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services
Posted by: David | Aug 8, 2009 12:46:07 AM

tychisum
I think you better go back and reread my letter I wrote. I in no way implied euthanasia. In fact I replied how and why people are misinformed when it comes to their care. Here in my county of Florida we have a lot of people that are not educated (as you seem to be) on what a living will, power of attorney, advanced directives, ect.. mean. I am all for healthcare reform not against it and please do not compare me or my comments to Sara Palin…I also am not an idiot and you are the one that seems to be jumping the gun and bullying people?

Sarah Palin is a disgrace and a big LIAR.

Tapper is far more intelligent than your average reporter but still no match for Gibbs. Tapper almost gets it and then Gibbs always wins out in the end and fools him. Tapper comes close to understanding what the health care plans of Obama would mean, but can’t quite break from the White House line.

The comments by Sarah that 46 year old man does not have what it takes to lead a nation is one of the most stupid ever made. It shows the level of intelligence of people like Sarah. Looking at the records, 4 past US presidents; Roosevelt (42) Kennedy(43)Clinton(46) and Grant(46) were younger than Obama at the time of their inaugurations. People like Sarah should not just be dispaying their ignorance publicly.

Oh so now Obama’s media and thugs don’t think private citizens have the right to post their thoughts and ideas on their Facebook pages, eh? Oh that’s right he will ‘punch back twice as hard’, or just go away and shut up if your opinion is different than the tyrants….NOT IN AMERICA BUDDY!

There are simply people in this country that love taking a few words out of context , posing as “experts” and then inflaming the general public with “sound bites” of gross exageration. I know intelligent people who are capable of this. Sarah Palin is the “leader” of these people. Fortunately, they are the minority.
As for insurance companies limiting care now. Of course they do. There numerous procedures that are not “covered”. There are policies that limit expenses in one calendar year to 100,000.00, and if your care costs 150,000.00 that year, you are stuck with a $50,000 bill or you don’t receive the medical care. If you have cancer and aren’t protected by COBRA’s continuous coverage provision, you have a “pre-existing” condition and you have no coverage. Is Sarah Palin crazy? This stuff happens every day. So it’s not the government doing it, but it sure as heck is not the “patients and their doctors” making the decisions on care. It is the insurance companies.

Meanwhile, Americans continue to pay far more by any measure than any other nation for a health care system that, statistically, does not even rank in the first world. People are already dying right now because of the system that we have – including infants at a faster rate than in the rest of the G8.

SweetAlmondVerbena: Just substitute “insurance company” for the term “government” in your little “excerpts from the health care bill” and you will have a pretty accurate picture of the way health care is TODAY. How come you aren’t out in the streets protesting the coverage available NOW?

Tapper
I don’t know if someone else has already pointed this out in the comments but if you think Palin was being disengenuous, maybe you should check out the story of Barbara Wagner of Oregon (where doctor assisted suicide is legal). That states public health plan sent her a letter denying her chemo for her cancer but saying they WOULD pay for her suicide.
Don’t be naive about nationalized medicine.

It is a misleading statement to say that the infant mortaility rate is higher in the US than in other advanced countries. Here we try to save many infants that other countries would write off. Our standards for measuring worthiness of life are different.
Also, sure we spend more on health care per capita than other countries. We have more to spend. We also spend more per capita on vacations and doughnuts. We also spend much more than anyone else on research and in pioneering advance technologies and therapies. Our top 5 hospitals do more research than all the hospitals combined in any other single country. The entire world benifits from our reseach. Of course we spend more. And the results are good. Look at the latest cancer and heart disease survival statistics. We far outstrip the UK and Canada.
NMS – You should think and do your research before you make such statements.

Thumbs down?
That’s Palin.

Now that she’s no longer governor – Palin’s free to share her right wing credentials. “Death Panels????” – let’s make things up and scare old people. What’s really scarey – came close to being within a heart beat of the presidency. What was John thinking???

Jake is letting his personal distaste for former Governor Palin color his view but Sarah is right. Government run health care will be a disaster for the elderly and for those with special needs.
They are both high cost users of health care. They will be the first to be denied care in order for bureaucrats to meet their quotas. Daniel Hannan from the UK has a lot of interesting things to say about their health care system.
Inform yourselves before it is too late. The UK health system is the third largest employer in the world behind the Red Army and Indian Railway. It employs more management bureaucrats than doctors.

All of this discussion misses an important point. More and more Americans have lost trust in Obama, his administration and the Congress, as a result of events in the last six months. Thus, a lot of people are extrapolating the dots and second guessing what is in the minds of the ruling elite. They do this because the ruling elite refuses to be forthright about their plans and motives. Most believe that the ruling elite are not acting in the best interests of the electorate and those citizens who are not yet officially among the electorate, the children who are not allowed to choose their representatives.
When a House of Representative committee sticks into a bill a provision for funding end of life discussions between doctors, patients and their families and when they stick into a bill a provision for funding panels of “wise men” to define global standards that will be used to meter out health benefits regardless of specific circumstances, the wishes of the patient or the beliefs of the attending physician, then it is easy to see how a Palin and many others can reach their “outlandish” conclusions. My only wish in this discussion is that the sycophants on both sides would go away and let the debate continue in a civilized manner. Eventually, reason will prevail.

What did Sarah Palin say that is not in the context of what David has shown to be in the health-care bill itself. The spirit of this bill is simply government takeover of our constitutional FREEDOM, and if that scares the life out of a common sense woman like Sarah, it scares me too!
You people can ridicule her intellegence all day, but did you happen to see her debate Joe Biden? Toe to toe she was superb, and I’ll take “common sense” over bureacratic bloviating anyday! What don’t you people understand? Jake can do his little fact-checking on selected items, but, Sarah, being a true friend tells the truth on the whole of the matter, government control of the minute details of our lives!

Everyone does know that MEDICARE is a Government run healthcare program. Why is the government’s public option such a skism to people like Palin? And really doesn’t she just continue to dig her own grave but putting statements like this in writing?

Gotta ask again. What private insurer would not exclude a patient known to have Down’s Syndrome. Palin was getting government insurance from the Alaska State plan. Where will she get it now.

Stephany, Medicare is, to use a favorite word of Obama himself, unsustainable. It is going broke. Put the two facts together and think about it. Government program…going broke. To keep Medicare solvent in its present form, more taxation is required. Or, one could reform Medicare. That singular goal is something I would support. If Obama and the Congress could fix Medicare, then I would be willing to let them have a shot at re-engineering the entire healthcare system. But, given the government track record to date, I remain skeptical of their ability to fix anything.

To jcarob:
First of all, I’m no sycophant. Frankly, I want medicare for all! I was not happy when it was taken off the table by the Obama administration. However, losing trust in the Obama adminstration is one thing, making up lies to block health care reform is another. Advance Care consultations have been around for at least 20 years (how many senior suicides or euthanasias have resulted?) and this provision was introduced into the bill as amendments by Republicans. Please people, get informed!!

If you think Governor Palin’s statement about “death panels” is outrageous, take a look at what is happening right now in the state of Oregon:

So much for Palin wanting the media to leave her family alone – now she chooses to “use” them for her political advantage. Typical hypocrite!

MNResident | Aug 8, 2009 11:37:37 AM Oregon offers some patients physician assisted suicide insted of medical care, and that’s a fact. Comming to teh rest of the county VERY soon.—– Offers is the operative word! Until you have had a loved one dying from some horrible disease, in pain and begging for help to be released from it, you don’t have a clue. A patient should have the right to make end of life decisions in that instance!

larry | Aug 8, 2009 11:49:33 AM – - Obama himself has said the elderly should just take a painkiller rather than treatment. —-Please reference that “quote”? He never said that! As for his daughter being “punished” he was saying she should have a choice! Never ceases to amaze me that the Right can never just debate the merits and facts. They have to resort to lies and distortions! Shameful!

Dear Try the Truth: Obama did in fact say give them a painkiller instead with regard to elderly people. As for debating the issues, Obama has said he doesn’t want to hear from people who “made the mess”, whatever that means. And he’s also called out the SEIU and ACORN to fill these “townhall” meetings. So there isn’t going to be much of a debate, if only one side is invited to the debate.

So I have a question for you Palin and the other health care oponents, how exactly is Obama going to kill the elderly and disabled children? Is he going to go door to door and take everyone out?
I don’t know why Palin is always complaining about the media attacking her infant son. First of all, no one would ever attack an infant. Secondly, no one would make personal attacks on someone with down syndrome.

fed up with Obama | Aug 8, 2009 11:30:11 AM — Mr. Obama said today that the “economic recovery” won’t continue unless his “health care reform” bill is passed. What kind of drivel is that? —– I was going to give you an answer, but realized it was common sense. Just think about it, ok?

Everglades Girl | Aug 8, 2009 12:05:28 PM
There are really no words for such a vicious lie. Why can’t Sarah say something constructive to the debate. With her it is always no solutions, just fear mongering.—– Now I think I know why she resigned! She was an expert during the campaign of lies and fear mongering! Whipping the uninformed into a frenzy. That’s her new role with the GOP! Whip up the ignorant!

Do any of you people realize that congress and government employees do not pay medicare taxes or premiums. You know why? Because they have the pure gold bar of all health care and guess what they will get to keep it. When I was doing medicaid eligibility for nursing homes on the state level I realized after confirming income for these government workers there was no medicare number and low and behold they don’t need it. Ask you congressman if he or she will give up their golden goose. Know what? NEVER happen. We middle class will just keep paying for them and the poor will get medicaid we will lose the ability to direct our own care. Those are facts folks not fairytales.

Just another ploy for Palin to get herself into the spotlight again…and of course, it’s working…DARN IT!

terry | Aug 8, 2009 12:07:40 PM — I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine going thru that. You are the perfect example on why there needs to be reform. What I don’t understand is why many of these people are against this. If they have their own insurance they can keep it! But to deny others coverage is just cruel.

try the Truth: Acorn was not called into these meetings and for your information….President Obama never worked for Acorn. Check the facts.

Just say #@$!! no.

Hey Sarah — STOP MAKING THINGS UP!

Jake, I’ll say it again. I’m very disappointed that you wrote this article. I really thought you were the one guy that would take the message to the white house through tough questions. But it appears you are just another lapdog journalist. Hope you enjoy all the cookouts at the Obama house.

I stongly doubt palin has even read the proposal and if she has she probably quit reading it before she came to the end. The GOP is doing more scare tactics. If there was a death panel why would you have to put it in a new plan, why not put in the Medicare Plan. All the town hall protestors are are bunch of old white people who are probably on Medicare or have a parent that is. If they oppose the gov’t taking over health care then they are opposed to Medicare and Medicaid as well!! Then why aren’t they protesting those two programs?? Oh, maybe because those programs work!!! Also, there’s TriCare for all our active and retired military people. They must be opposed to that as well since they don’t want the gov’t involved in health care. Bottom line, those protestors and the GOP are a bunch of idiots!!

Discussing end of life care in no way, shape or form constitutes advocating death to the elderly or ill and to think otherwise is MORONIC. This crazy, uneducated extremist is a danger to our society. Based on her “logic” hospices should shut down, discussions about pain control and long term care should cease, physicians should not be allowed to fully inform patients about the extent of their diseases, patients should be denied their rights to information, and all the advances in palliative medicine should be turned back 150 years. Every single medical professional (such as myself) and citizen in this country should be outraged by her idiocy. She has no business in politics – or in any mainstream forum whatsoever. I am not overjoyed by everything in Obama’s health care plans – in fact, there is a lot I disagree with, but this idiot is downright DANGEROUS.I have heard a LOT of stupid things from Palin but this takes the cake. Every newsmedia outlet should be dissecting these comments to show the world just how extreme this woman really is.

For those who say Sarah did a good job debating Joe Biden, I say you obviously just listened to her speaking style, and not her response as it related to the questions asked. She often did not answer the question asked. In at least one instance, she actually told Gwen Ifil that she was not going to answer her question because she wanted to talk about something else (which is translated to mean, “Gwen, I have no clue about the answer to that question, so I’m going to recite some words about a total different topic from my cue cards, and I’ll also wink and blink for special effect”. And you call that a good debate? I don’t think so.

I am a woman who is all for woman in the government…however Palin needs to go back to her house with her ‘pretty little smile’ and stay away!! She resigned up there…she needs to resign here!! In other words SHUT THE ‘H’ UP, GO HUNTING AND FISHING WITH THE OLD MAN!! SHE APPARENTLY THINKS IF SHE PUTS A ‘SMILE’ ON HER FACE SHE CAN GET AWAY WITH SAYING MANY STUPID THINGS!!

It is in the bill… I believe her comment of a “death panel” enables the administration to explain exactly what is meant by wording in the bill that requires euthanasia counseling after 65 years of age… The reality is, there is not enough explanation for a bill of this magnitude to be rushed through on a vote…. I believe that is the point. Read the bill Mr. President, and then you can refute the “rumors” one by one.

“Sarah is telling the truth.”
Sorry Sanger, Hell hasn’t frozen over yet.

SARAH PALIN…SHUT THE ‘H’ UP! I am a college educated woman who wants smart intelligent women in our government.
I DO NOT WANT PALIN THINKING THAT IF SHE SAYS WHATEVER SHE WANTS…WITH HER ‘PRETTY LITTLE SMILE’ ON HER FACE…PEOPLE WILL LIKE HER.
I feel she is one of the most dangerous women in the country. She needs to resign into her private live and hunt and fish!! Stay out of people’s ways who are trying find an answer, rather than create chaos!
Take your hormone pill and get out of here Palin…and no you’re not the cutest person to run down government. It won’t work…so SHUT UP.

Palin – Evil in the form of ignorance.

The last paragraph of the Politifact article Jake links to calls the “death panel” interpretation Palin is spreading a “ridiculous falsehood.”

Brenny | Aug 8, 2009 12:33:10 PM — “raving maniacs” Who would that be the only people shouting and spouting idiocy is the Repubs and Sarah! What I love are the sweeping judgments on this Admin, without one fact on what it’s done wrong! LOL

Thomas Sowell from the Heritage Foundation claims that the Democratic healthcare proposals might take life-and-death decisions out of the hands of ordinary Americans and the hands of your doctors and into the hands of bureaucrats in Washington. This sounds EXACTLY like what REPUBLICANS went out of their way to do back in 2005 when the did EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER to take control of Terry Shiavo’s life and death. The dropped it like a hot potato when a poll revealed that 81% of Americans think government should not have a role in these types of decisions.

For those who get so incensed that the left is trying to squelch free speech by trying to point out a lie, an exaggeration and a fabrication … my stars I’m just not sure what to think about that. If free speech is so important, they why are they trying to make sure it doesn’t happen at town hall meetings?

Homer Simpson said it all about the right (code word for wrong):
“The election broke their brain…..”

Sharon & Fed Up With Obama believe in a disturbed moron named Sarah Palin who is spouting lies.
Read the bill & get educated. The healthcare industry is behind the lies that some pols are spreading.
These unethical pols sell their souls for money they receive from the healthcare industry.

If Sarah Palin would stop inciting fear and division by spreading malicious falsehoods about a government “Death Panel,” she might garner some credibility.
She is destroying her own credibility with outrageous lies.

Has anyone actually read any of this bill? I have perused a bit of it and it is nothing but the most intrusive and coercive piece of legislation to come out of Congress since LBJ’s great society. It allows govt. agents to check on every aspect of your life, not just your health records. They can audit any and all your financial dealings in the name of preventing ‘corruption’ of the system. And there are more fines and penalities than you can imagine tucked throughout the thing. We don’t have a health care problem, its a healthcare cost problem. This bill does nothing to remedy the most significant problem with health care costs, which is tort reform. Our purported legal system has increased costs in all facets of our lives. In europe for instance, you cannot sue doctors for malpractice. You can only be made ‘whole’ again. That being said, our system has made the best available medical care in the world. Yes, we need to work on the system as there are other facets too complex for this discussion that need addressing. This bill fails miserably in all aspects.

Why are leftist liberals so apoplectic about Sarah Palin. She has the right to her opinion.
Free speech is a right we all hold dear. Why are you telling people to shut up?
Why are you so afraid to listen to your fellow Americans?
Posted by: Blue Skies
is that the same Palin who doesn’t want her family involved in public discourse?… right…
unless she’s the one parading them around to suit her own political/social gains…
it’s one thing to rant your nonsense views, it’s another to lie and make dumb stuff up…
I doubt you understand the difference.. as nowadays, anyone who is not an evangelical/republican/conservative is considered a nazi by the fringe, and mainstream right…
seems like just a short time ago the ‘Dixie Chicks’ were branded traitors, CD’s burned, concerts canceled, radio air time decreased,
etc… just for disagreeing with Bush & Cheney about Iraq…
hypocrisy … they name is republican

Sarah Palin could turn this country around if some of the Obama does no wrong because he is Black get out of her way.
Obama will go down in history as Americas worst mistake ever

Omni-Present writes***:
1. Medi-Care is a Single Payer Plan.
Medi-Care is Government Run Health Care and Some Of These Low Life’s call it [Socialized Medicine]
RESPONSE: Medicare is a government run health care (AND YES, A PRECURSOR TO SOCIALIZED MEDICINE), but it is not single payer such as other countries use. Many senior have supplemental plans which pick up where medicare leaves off…..and they have the CHOICE to shop those plans. As medicare changes (which it will under Obamacare) these supplemental plans may not be allowed, and if they are they will become expensive.
And if you think Medicare is the perfect example of “government run healthcare” you are living in a dream world. MEDICARE IS ALMOST BROKE AND THE NEW PROPOSAL WILL TAKE BILLIONS FROM MEDICARE AND MOVE IT TO THE GOVERNMENT SPONSORED PLAN FOR NON-RETIREES.
2. The DOD:The Dept.Of Defense, is also a Single Payer Plan.
Government Run Health Care, These Low Life’s call it [Socialized Medicine]
3. The VA:Veterans Admin.Hospitals are also Single Payer Plans, Government Run Health Care.
4. Federal Employees, FBI, CIA, US Postal & Amtrak Employees, have Government Sponsored Health Care also.
RESPONSE: Have you experienced care through the VA??? I have senn it in action with my now deceased father……..the VA farms out most of it serious stuff to private doctors and it does so in an INSANE fashion….with delays you would not believe. Sorry, but if this is your example of “single payer” government run healthcare…….RUN LIKE H*%% for it. Veteran’s healthcare for active duty military??? Sorry…those soldiers have no choice and most of them are young…..not a good comparison.
Government employee healthcare??? I have a novel idea…..WHY DOESN”T CONGRESS REQUIRE ALL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYESS (INCLUDING BOTH HOUSE OF CONGRESS) TO COME UNDER THE NEW SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM BEING PROPOSED???? EVER WONDER WHY???……..BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE LEVEL OF CARE IT WILL PROVIDE.
This Argument is Mundane and Meaningless, an Excercise in Hate, for all those who Hate Pres. Obama.
Anything he does or will ever do will [Always] be met with Strong Opposition and Great Hate.
Its Sad, You are Witnessing Hate Mongers, Sore Losers, Racist, Palin-McCain Voter Anger, Those Wanting to SEE only a White Person as Commander In Chief and those in Campaign 2012 Mode, In Hi-Gear.
RESPONSE: Wow…..sound like Robert gates is writing this. So it anyone objects to the new health plan it is “hate speech”??? And the left accuses everyone else of stifling freedom of speech and political dissent???
That is what you are Witnessing in Opposition of Health Reform.
To be Truthful, All those Riotous Rebel Rousers have Little or No Health Insurance.
RESPONSE: Actually they are HAPPY with their coverage and don’t want the governmnt running it.
Note: Having 40%-70% Health Care Coverage is the Equivalent of having No Insurance.
When they get that 40,000 dollar Bill, its Bankruptcy, Change Your Name, Leave the Country, Homelessness or Suicide.
Under-Insured & Un-Insured and Barely Insured is No Insurance at all.
And those out there Hell Raising Fit All Categories Noted Above.
The Sad Part of it all, Most of those who are Protesting are themselves on some form of Government Run Health Care or have Multiple Family and Friends on Medi-Care- Medi-Caid, or Dept. of Defense [Military] Health Care or Children on Government Run CHIP Program.
RESPONSE: Medicaid is already broke (ask California) and Medicare will be BROKE in a few years.

Has anyone actually read any of this bill? It allows govt. agents to check on every aspect of your life,
Posted by: Hammie
there is a new fav beverage for the ‘right’, ..called cognitive dissonance… a tasty treat that makes one forget the shredding of constitutional rights and corruption that happened during the malfeasance years of Bush & Cheney….
Mission Accomplished: Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina, economic crash, ….oh my.. the Twin Towers replacement is still a hole in the ground.. Republicans… all talk, hate, and..no substance

Those of you who think Palin is concerned about the elderly and disabled should read the article published in the Anchorage Daily News on July 14. It demonstrates how incompetent and hypocritical she is on this subject. The article begins:
“State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life — taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom — are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.
The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements.
No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.”

As usual, Sarah Palin likes to spew outrageous lies and incite people with her antics knowing there is no substance behind it. Those who blindly follow her guidance are idiots. As far as health care reform, trying something new is at least a shot at getting something better than what most of us have now. HMO’s and other insurance programs have the same judgement Sarah Palin is accusing the new reform of having – they decide which procedures we can have and what they decide we don’t qualify for – what’s new about that, Palin!!!!!!!!!!!

Terry – I am sorry for your loss. I agree as you can see from my last post. Insurance companies choose now what they will treat and what they will not, while our loved ones suffer and die because of it. Quit playing political games with our health and the lives of our loved ones. Do your job and get us all health care that takes care of our families and worry about your damn politics on your own time.

I really wasn’t aware that Sarah was reading now. Unfortunately, she seems to have forgotten how.

Dewde writes:
“so….. it’s acceptable to you that congressional Dems are being threatened with death?”
***************************************
Wow dewde….last time I heard threatening someone with death, especially an elected official, was a crime. Wonder why there have been NO arrests made or ANY discussion of an investigation?? Could it be……OMG…is it possible that your accusation is just more LEFT WING rhetoric??? I guess the repubs don’t have the market on that do they?
But on the other hand, I think there may be some arrests in St Louis of those who assaulted the conservative black man……and it won’t be of “repubs.”

I am delighted to hear Sara Palin’s latest blast at anything that isn’t blessed by the right-wing republican faction. As long as she continues to spew hate and ignorance, the Democratic Party will undoubtedly receive the benefit of a doubt from the electorate. You Go Girl.

Optimist, your post was well said and insightful……I too have issues with expensive care in certain situations…..however I would want that decision made by the patient, or the patient’s family (Healthcare proxies, durable POA’s, etc.)…….not by the bureaucracy. A perfect example is the recent hot topic in the United Kingdom involving the breast cancer treatment being decided by a governement agency.

Why is Obama comfortable with a czar that believes in forced sterilization
and with Ezekial Emanuel who believes in the usefulness of life between the ages of 15 to 40 years old?
If you think Obama isn’t capable of allowing a death panel—look at who he appoints.
Hard for O-bots to admit he is a very creepy dude that wants to play God.

I hope the death panel gives a thumbs down to Palin as well.
BTW – i don’t have health insurance because i can’t afford it and I keep being denied when I apply simply because I take an allergy medication. This is the reality, Palin is beyond stupid.

Dewde writes:
“pretty funny that folks like the Dixie Chicks were condemned and ostracized by the ‘right’ for expressing their free speech and artistic freedoms during bush & Cheney, but now, the right wing wants to prevent discourse at Dem town hall meetings using death threats and mob intimidation.”
****************************************
Once again Dewde….what death threats???? If you have evidence of a crime, please share it with the readers on this blog and of course with the authorities. The mob intimidation in St Louis was from the SEIU (not exactly a “repub’ organization).
With regard to the dixie chicks……their right to free speech remains unimpeded to this very date (as does yours)….that does not give them the right to be free from criticism…..nor does it give them the right to have people purchase their records or attend their concerts.

Sarah Palin is a true, good hearted american
Posted by: Joseph
we already know that, and that she lives in the REAL america unlike the rest of us… good thing she has refrained from subjecting her family to the media and public spotlight in her recent nonsensical rantings….. yeeeeeeeesh

Once again Dewde….what death threats????
Posted by: socialism101
just one example: guess you missed it
Reps. Heath Shuler and Larry Kissell, also North Carolina Democrats, are holding meetings on health care reform by teleconference, the Raleigh News & Observer reports.
The U.S. Capitol Police confirmed that they are investigating a report of a death threat received by Miller’s office. However, a spokesperson for the department would not confirm the claim that “hundreds” of such threats have been received, saying that’s not something they can discuss with the because it’s part of an ongoing investigation.

Ms Palin and Ms Bachmann, two people who should think before they speak. Silly and mindless thoughts!

Palin-Bachmann in 2012
go Repubs … do it !!!!!!

Hey Chris Dodd, and Ted Kennedy. When are you guys going to fly to Canada for your next cancer treatments? Still 30 back on the waiting list?
Boy that really sucks, but hey, you guy are pushing that kind of healthcare on the rest of america, so I’m sure that you two are also willing to partake in in the same kind of program.

Why is this a story at all? Palin’s claims on health care carry as much weight as someone claiming the sky is falling. You don’t turn to astrophysicists and ask them whether its valid or not. You ignore them knowing how asinine their statement is.

Quoted from another learned poster named DAVE:
1) Our nation is BROKE. We have no money for this.
2) It’s funny how many people are willing to spend $65 billion dollars per year… because health care costs too much. If that doesn’t deserve an “LOL”, I don’t know what does.
3) Every economist on the earth knows that this plan will cause the cost of private health insurance to rise. So, sure, you can keep your private plan if you’d like… just know that it’s going to soon cost a fortune (at which time you will run to the government plan).
4) No one in America complained about health care costs prior to 1973. That was when the government mandated that our insurance companies cover every health illness and procedure under the sun. Our government continues to attempt to fix their mistakes by making new and bigger mistakes. As mentioned above, Obama’s plan will increase the cost of private insurance. Don’t be surprised if they socialize the entire system 10 years from now in order to “fix” another problem that they have created.

How would government ration healthcare to say an anti-government,far right ideologue????? This is exactly one of the major reasons government has NO BUSINESS in making decisions about somebodies health.

Sorry Tapper, but we’ve actually read the bill. There are too many things in there that are highly suspicious and completely unnecessary. People have yet to answer a basic question: “WHY?”. Why does the government think it’s necessary to send ANYONE to the elderly population every 5 years to talk about end of life services? Most people do that on their own. Why is such a provision in the bill? More questions: Why does the government need to have my banking information on file to charge me if I don’t want healthcare? What if I can’t pay that bill? Are they willing to overdraw on my account and destroy my credit? Whose banking information is going to be on file? I it restricted to those with certain incomes?
Concerning Emmanual’s piece, the entire thing was a discussion on what qualifies as basic and disdretionary care. Emmanual acknowledges that a government system, by virtue of the amount of money spent, must address those issues. And that is where the problem is. Obama said as much in his pain pill gaffe, Britain does not allow surgeries for the obese and certain drugs are not paid for.
Who am I to tell someone that an annual physical is basic care, but the 2nd heart surgery is discretionary care? That is not society’s decision; it’s the individual’s decision. And honestly we all know society will not collectively make those decisions; it’s impossible. The ones making that decision are those in government, our so called representatives. That is the crux of Palin’s, Bachmann’s and everyone else’s argument. Also, the saying rings true: “Tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are.” And the fact that he has people espousing and entertaining these “theories” is troubling. Period. Because these are the very people that will be running some aspect of this new government business and we already know how it’s going to turn out.
We recognize that this system will destroy private insurance (it’s written in the bill) and put everyone on medicaid. Once that happens these decisions on basic and discretionary care will be made. So all you fervent Obama supporters and fence sitters need to answer one question.
Who do you want making the decisions on your healthcare? You or the government.

For the foreseeable future, our choice as Americans for the direction of our country will be crystal clear. The choice between parties has come down to a decision between Republican self delusion and building a solid, sane, sober future with the Democrats for our selves and our children. – ITWARZ

Palin is a good for nothing uneducated fool based on the things she says she has no business even opening her mouth. She has no idea on how to speak the truth. Her comments are unfounded and totally irrelevant.
She does not speak for me or represent me as woman or a mother. Say no to Palin

Dewde writes:
“maybe you should take the time to really review what went on……. but that might be expecting to much of you…..”
****************************************
LOL
Would that be the same as asking our elected officials to actually READ the
pending healthcare legislation….what a novel idea.
The dixie chicks??? It is really pretty simple…..Natalie criticized the president on foreign soil and she got loudly criticized back home….a lot of folks quit buying their records and attending their concerts. What’s the problem?? She had her say and exercised her free speech……some of fans did the same. End of story.

Michelle Bachmann, Sara Palin, maybe we can sell them. Somebody hang a sign, “Cash for Clunkers”. – ITWARZ

Dewde writes:
“are those the same economists that said everything was peachy in 2006, 2007, and the 1st part of 2008?”
***************************************
No, that was actually Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who said that Fannie Mae was sound.

Palin-Bachmann in 2012
go Repubs … do it !!!!!!
Posted by: Dewde | Aug 8, 2009 2:35:16 PM
****
LMAO!! The SNL skits alone would be priceless:) And can you imagine the campaign slogans?

befair | Aug 8, 2009 2:46:19 PM – Not government take over health care, health care reform, insurance company need coming up better product to serve American people, people can pick and choose which one serve their family.—– — What part don’t you guys understand, the Govt is NOT taking over health care! They are giving you another option! Why should the Insurance Co come up with better products? They don’t have to, and they haven’t. This is a choice, left up to the individual! Why are some of you so bent on not allowing others to make a choice! Stay with your insurance if your happy, but let others make their own decisions!

Mark writes:
“ALL ABOARD!
Next stop: Crazytown”
***************************************
LOL……does Obamacare cover mental illness????

The right wing simply cannot admit that the governemnt in many other countries can and does run healthcare. The funny thing is that they claim the USA is the greatest place on earth but we have second rate healthcare(ranked 37th in outcomes) and in the middle on education but hey those tax cuts for the rich are working!! Palin and Bachmann two nuts from the same tree

It is noteable that again Sarah Palin wants the media to leave her children out of the spotlight, however she uses her own infant handicapped son to slam President Obama, then she will claim it is not personal. Even though the woman has resigned for privacy, she still brings her own childrens health care issues into the media for her political causes. creepy

wow. the woman who whined and cried about leaving her children out of politics is using them to make political point. what a shock…

She’s really cranked up the crazy now that she’s isn’t in office.
Posted by: Mark | Aug 8, 2009 2:49:26 PM
*************************************
LMAO!

There is much more left in the hands of the medical community and state welfare offices than one might imagine. The elderly are often abandoned by their family with no planning at all. We have to remember their eduction level when 85% of their children, our current employed population, has a grade 12 education. There is no estate planning, usually debt against the estate, and a human life that no one claims. They show up for the estate if it is not in default… but that last 10 years of assisted living or long-term care, that has been left up to the neighbors & 911. You really need to volunteer at the Office of the Aging or Elder’s Services to grasp the complexities of the questionaire.

kriste – I agree – she throws her kids in the ring when it’s convenient and then has a meltdown when the media talks about them – what a nutcase!
Regarding her comments – does anyone really believe she read any details of ANYONE’S healthcare plan?

Sarah Palin is the only evil in this matter. The witch from Alaska is a disgusting lump of brainless flesh spreading knowing falsehoods everywhere she goes. It’s time for Palin to sit back and reflect on the reasons why she and McSame took such a beating in the 2008 elections.

I don’t blame Sara palin for her utterrances. I have to blame the American people who are easily carried away by little and insignificant things. We are so passionate about celebrities and fantasies. What is the credential of a person like Sara Palin to be a State Governor no matter how small that state might be. As if that was not enough, she was hand picked by Senator John McCain to be Second in Command to the most exhalted office in the world despite many experienced and qualified candidates in the GOP. That candidacy has even granted her every right of effrontery to question authorities today. Unfortunately for Palin, She is touching the people’s candidate. The Bible says “touch not my annointed”. This present governmnent is the government of the people, by the people and for the people. Sara Palin has no locus standi ormoral justification whatsoever to stand against the presetn adminnstration and its policies. She has nothing to offer much as she did not have anything to offer in Alaska and had to step aside amidst criticism and probes of her activities. I can only advise the good people of America to ignore her utterances and distruction. hers is a voice of a hopeless, hapeless and rejected person whose stock in trade is nothing but to make some cheap blackmail just to get relevance.

Gary | Aug 8, 2009 3:19:47 PM – “Do you read facts, the car dealerships all over the country are waiting for the money to be paid to them from the government before they deliver a new car to a customer” ———- Wrong again! The customer is driving off with their new car! I know, I bought a new van for my business. Friend bought a new car also! You originally said it was hundreds of thousands of customers! At least your learning!

Excellent reporting here, Jake.

Ex Governor I quit Palin still hasn’t learned. She and her ilk are going to get somebody hurt or killed with their misrepresentations and out and out lies! While I understand everyone has the right to free speech, you can’t yell fire in a crowed theater! She and the other Repubs lying are yelling fire in my opinion.

Because we all should trust a person who quit their job in this economy.

Activities of daily living (ADLs): Health professionals routinely refer to the ability or inability to perform ADLs as a measurement of the functional status of a person. Katz (ADL) scale and the Lawton-Brody (ADL) scale … once you realize that the patient can not be charted by this method, a method with a network that has a service provider and government subsidizer; new information must be ascertained. My opinion, not that it matters, is that people are more concerned with dealing with the reality of what they are already taking for granted and that making concessions and taking responsibility is inevitable. The grief process is very difficult and denial is part of that process. Having things planned in advance make that process easier and that is the responsibility aspect. There are concessions in knowing.

WHEN I INITIALLY HARED OF SARAH PALIN ALTHOUGH SHE IS NOT POPULAR, I THOUGHT SHE IS A WOMAN OF SUBSTANCE BUT I BECAME DISAPPOINTED THAT SHE WAS YET TO DISCOVER WHY SHE HAD TO LEAVE THE OFFICE SHOWING SHE HAS NO PLAN FOR EVEN HER OWN FUTURE. WHY THEN WOULD SHE BE THE ONE TO TELL ME ABOUT HEALTH CARE USING HER BABY AS AN OBSTACLE PLAN, DOES SHE THINK I DON NOT LOVE OR VALUE THE LIVE OF MY BABIES AS WELL. SHUT AND DON’T EVER MAKE ANY COMMENT BECAUSE IF YOU DO, SARAH PALIN, I WILL BLOW YOUR COVER WHY YOU LEFT THE OFFICE YOU GOOD FOR NOTHING CHEAP.

If i had to chose between Palin and Obama making my end of life decisions I’ll take Palin.
Trig is proof of how much she values a life that many would deem worthless.
Obama voted against the Born Alive Bill and it is above his paygrade to decide when a child has rights.
He believes the elderly should just go take a painkiller and die.
So who really walks the walk?
Not Obama.

Palin needs to sit down and shut up. She has no idea what the hell she is talking about.

The Republicans may or may not have control of what comes out of this woman’s mouth, but they might like the fact that she says all of the ridiculous and mean-spirited lies that they don’t want to be caught saying themselves. It gets those images out there, so that even if everyone knows they aren’t true, it still colors the debate.

And the 2009 award for for best impersonation, by a female, of pathological liar Alex Jones is…may I have the the envelope please…
From the USA, for ‘Health Care Death Panel’, the winner is Sarah Palin!
Accepting the award for Ms Palin is her entire family, all of which detest public exposure, unless it furthers the political agenda of Ms Palin…

And the 2009 award for for best impersonation, by a female, of pathological liar Alex Jones is…may I have the the envelope please…
From the USA, for ‘Health Care Death Panel’, the winner is Sarah Palin!
Accepting the award for Ms Palin is her entire family, all of which detest public exposure, unless it furthers the political agenda of Ms Palin…

socialism101
Ah yes, the Cato Institute is SUCH an unbiased source. LOL.
The truth is that the health care in most developed countries is of reasonably similar quality, at least for the people who actually have access to it. The WHO numbers may show us #36 or whatever, but there is not much difference between #1 and #40.
The difference is that our system costs us twice as much, bankrupts thousands of people a year, limits access to millions, and gives billions of dollars in profit to private insurance companies. If you like that, by all means go and shout down your congressperson.

The world needs MORE Trigs…and less Harvard elitists.

sarah | Aug 8, 2009 4:03:01 PM – I have a group home down the street from me, all downs syndrome people. They are some of the most loving and wonderful people you will ever meet. Funny, the suburbs, Republican dominated didn’t want the home there! Anyway, I digress. Each one of them is special. Our neighborhood is much richer because of them. But, I wouldn’t want them to run the country! I would prefer the “Harvard Elitist” as you call him. Are you one of those that believes those with the least education and worldly experience should run our country, because if so, I have a pizza delivery man that can go on a Palin ticket in a heart beat. Making change is his nemesis!

It is easier to condemn the present administration of the US than govern the state of Alaska. Palin took the easy way out and makes more money and is writing a book. This tells me where her priorties are. If you cannot govern, condemn.

Try the Truth writes:
“As one who pays for health care for my employees, I have researched this…….. If you don’t want this health care, fine. But allow others the CHOICE!”
***************************************
You just nailed the PROBLEM and you don’t even know it. If you are an employer currently paying for your employee’s health care you will probably move them to the new government plan……others will follow. I too pay for employee health care. When Obamacare passes, WE WON’T HAVE A CHOICE because all the insurance companies will be competing with a subsidized plan. Eventually you will pay for it…one way or the other. Obama has been quoted as stating her prefered a single payer system and he thinks it will happen in 10 -15 years. And it wasn’t “taken out of context” like the white House spy agency would have us believe.

SARAH PALIN WOULD STAY OUT OF THE SPOT LIGHT AND SHE CHILDREN.

it is very disgracing to hear people still complimenting sarah (republican) i am very sorry for sarah because people like her, would realize their mistake at the late hour.
i want to know if sarah has come up with something better for her life since she ran or was thrown away from the office

Palin is ignorant, stupid, crazy, dumb,hypocritical, insecure, fearful, evil, disgusting, anti-religious, inept, devious, and on and on.

socialism101 | Aug 8, 2009 4:18:40 PM — – You just nailed the PROBLEM and you don’t even know it. If you are an employer currently paying for your employee’s health care you will probably move them to the new government plan……others will follow. I too pay for employee health care.——- Ah, no! I will still offer our current PLANS! They do have a choice. If HCR passes they will have that choice also! The same way they can choose BCBS, Preferred Care, it will be a choice! FYI, I posted about this before, one of my employee’s was dropped when she got breast cancer. We collectively have been paying her bills! There was a meeting this past week of small business owners in the area, even the Republicans said it was nice to have a choice! You under estimate the small business owner (your one or so you say) we only succeed when we have happy and loyal employees! I could make a much bigger profit but I choose to treat my employees the way I wish I was treated. FYI- I have a degenerative health issue, I’ve had to go to court to sue my insurance company when they attempted to drop me, after 20+ years of paying with no health issues, until now!

How many of you idiots have actually read the bill? Believe me as a senior it scares me a lot. Not for myself but for my children and grandchildren. They might want to have a comfortable life. At the rate the government is going, it is not going to happen. I guess I will just take pain pills. However, that is not a great way to live. I HAVE read the total bill.

The risk of government run health care is too great. There are ways to make health care more affordable that do not entail a government takeover.
From the Mayo Clinic:
Specific recommendations
Require adults to purchase private health insurance for themselves and their families. Employers could continue to participate by buying insurance for their employees or giving them stipends to purchase it. However, the individual would own the insurance.
Appoint an independent health board (similar to the Federal Reserve) to provide a simple coordinating mechanism for individuals to select a basic PRIVATE insurance option. Allow people to purchase more services or insurance, if they choose.
Provide sliding-scale government subsidies to help people with lower incomes buy insurance.
Realign the health system toward improving health in addition to treating disease.

I’m wondering whether Palin has no regard for truth or whether she simply has no grasp on reality.

Ms Palin needs to go fishing no one respects the woman or put much stock in anything she has to say. She can’t run her own family more or less the state she was govornor of. She has been a blessing for us Dems. cause she cost McCain the election.

Palin 2012
Posted by: max
PLEASE, PLEASE WITH SUGAR…
hope she still remembers how to do the ‘fancy walkin’… you betcha…
wonder if she eats those wolves she shoots..

“If you cannot govern, condemn.”
My sentiments about Obama exactly. But not just condemn. Condemn and smack down any constituents who dare to criticize a bill you never read. Oh, and ask Americans to snitch on their friends and neighbors expressing any dissent.
America wanted CHANGE. And America got CHANGE, in the form of RAMPANT FASCISM and THUGGERY.

Apparently some of you making comments about teh ‘end of life planning’ have never dealt with a person dying of cancer or other serious illnes. If you really read the bill you would find out that particular article covers hospice, living wills, and all the other sensible things a person should do to prepare for the end. It does not force you to do the planning, only gives you the options/resources. And for those that have this assumption that a health care plan from the government will limit your medical access, get real private insurance plans already do that.

Sarah Palin is the moral equivalent of a murder. By lying to try to kill the health care reform that will save the lives of people who cannot now afford insurance, she has a hand in trying to kill them. It is time we start calling these killer republicans what they are.

I hope you people remember all of those nasty comments, when they tell you you’ll just have to do w/o, because you aren’t worthy. They are doing it in Canada, UK and Germany now as we speak. The same government that allowed Enron, Clinton not Bush, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is going to be honest with you? The truth will be hard one day, but no doubt you’ll find and evil Republican to blame as you put your collective heads in the sand. All I can say is wait, and don’t use the conservatives as your excuses, when all of this crap we are being fed turns sour. You guys have the power, us it and “shut up” and out esteemed leader would say. Isn’t that so presidential to say, “I don’t want to hear from a certain group of citizens, basically Shut Up and get out of my way, so I can clean up your mess.” I truly hope he can and does it, but when it doesn’t happen, who do you blame then? I believe he’ll do it, just as he said he would have no lobbyist in his Administration, cut down on the number of lawyers, have an open administration, have integrity when have of his appointments are tax cheats, half are lobbyist, he took money from lobbyist, he uses them to disrupt public meeting (ACORN), he won’t disclose a lot of things he said he would be open about, he asks neighbors to spy on neighbors, and is raising taxes when he said he wouldn’t. Raised the National Debt to unprecedented levels, never seen before. And, all this in six months>You are going to trust this man and Administration? Good luck!

As a doctor, I can tell you that health care rationing will become the norm if the current legislation is allowed to pass. It will be the only way to control medical costs in a rapidly aging population. The sick, the disabled and the elderly will see limits put on their health care policies. The limits will be determined by politicians, not physicians.
As a doctor, I am very afraid for you!

I am hopeful that Palin as a citizen, not a gov official, can open speak her opinion, (or should I say utilize the first amendment of our constitution!) We need more people to stand before we are no more. Put it in your pipe activist dems that only comment to wipe on ones honest felt opinions, of people who don’t agree with you. Get over it and live with the facts people are not going away or going to be controled by you or the mighty majority. USA will not just shut up and let us go down.

America was founded on freedom-the freedom granted by our constitution of: “…life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” As Thomas Jefferson said, “That government is best which governs least,..” It is true that there are horror stories regarding our current healthcare system, however, there are horror stories regard ANY healthcare system regardless of the structure. Healthcare oftentimes deals with death and dying, which by nature are horrifying topics for most people. Yet, to allow our most intimate decisions and information to be centralized into a government run system is not the answer. We are a free people who love freedom and giving our government more power, regardless of the intended outcome, will not improve our healthcare system. Villifying insurance companies only insults the intelligence of our fellow citizens. Americans ARE intelligent enough to make our own decisions without necessarily getting scammed, and even if some of us are occasionally scammed by unscrupulous insurance (or other) companies, it is nothing compared to the scam that government healthcare will be considered after it is implemented.

we are going to be paying for the mexicans that are not legal in this country stupid people

The answer to healthcare reform is increased government regulation of private insurers. It can be done very well. It will encourage competition and ultimately lead to better coverage.

callen | Aug 8, 2009 5:12:07 PM- I honestly don’t care if you don’t agree with my opinion! Just let me express it and ask questions! Disrupting town halls not allowing others their 1st amendment rights? What’s that about? People go to town halls for information, you brown shirts are blocking that. Why so nervous about the public asking questions? Makes one wonder.

Pat | Aug 8, 2009 5:16:40 PM- Thank you! You know they will not be able to comprehend that, don’t you? LOL

I usually don’t mind one party criticizing another party’s bill but this is rediculous. How can she support financially exploiting the terminally ill and their families? Some will agree to experimental procedures no matter the cost but my ancestry has repeated wishes to “set me down at the bank of the river” or “take me to a cave and I’ll just go to sleep” rather than withdrawl all their life savings to pay corporate insurance and hospitals.
It appears to be a desperate attempt to kill it altogether rather than propose an alternative. Sarah has lost any chance of being credible as she has her priority with her party’s power. Obviously, she does not have a valid point because she doesn’t propose an ammendment to the bill. Hopefully, before 2016, a new, credible GOP figure will emerge.
Frank Schaeffer states, “A barrage of outright lies, wherein the Democrats are being accused of wanting to launch a massive euthanasia program against the elderly, free abortions for everyone, and “a government takeover” of health-care is now being combined with physical intimidation that in several cases has required police escorts to protect pro health-care reform speakers surrounded by angry plants sent to disrupt public forums on the health-care issue.”
It is irresponsible of the GOP to follow this path of failure. It is giving more and more power to the DEMS as GOP is seen as fuddy, curmudgeons. America needs a balance of power. A moderate GOP needs to be outspoken for reform, propose an improvement to the House Bill and ensure GOP credibility when this passes.

I am a PWA who has been on antiretroviral therapy medications for fifteen years now. I live a healthy life. Why is it that the same medications that I take that cost my insurance company about $50,000 per year cost less than half that amount ($18,000) in Canada? The reason is the pharmaceutical industry is out for profits…..as is the insurance industry…..and the medical services industry.

1. Medi-Care is a Single Payer Plan.
Medi-Care is Government Run Health Care and Some Of These Low Life’s call it [Socialized Medicine]
2. The DOD:The Dept.Of Defense, is also a Single Payer Plan.
Government Run Health Care, These Low Life’s call it [Socialized Medicine]
3. The VA:Veterans Admin.Hospitals are also Single Payer Plans, Government Run Health Care.
4. Federal Employees, FBI, CIA, US Postal & Amtrak Employees, have Government Sponsored Health Care also.
This Argument is Mundane and Meaningless, an Excercise in Hate, for all those who Hate Pres. Obama.
Anything he does or will ever do will [Always] be met with Strong Opposition and Great Hate.
Its Sad, You are Witnessing Hate Mongers, Sore Losers, Racist, Palin-McCain Voter Anger, Those Wanting to SEE only a White Person as Commander In Chief and those in Campaign 2012 Mode, In Hi-Gear.
That is what you are Witnessing in Opposition of Health Reform.
To be Truthful, All those Riotous Rebel Rousers have Little or No Health Insurance.
Note: Having 40%-70% Health Care Coverage is the Equivalent of having No Insurance.
When they get that 40,000 dollar Bill, its Bankruptcy, Change Your Name, Leave the Country, Homelessness or Suicide.
Under-Insured & Un-Insured and Barely Insured is No Insurance at all.
And those out there Hell Raising Fit All Categories Noted Above.
The Sad Part of it all, Most of those who are Protesting are themselves on some form of Government Run Health Care or have Multiple Family and Friends on Medi-Care- Medi-Caid, or Dept. of Defense [Military] Health Care or Children on Government Run CHIP Program.
______________________

If you want to reduce costs, increase the number of doctors and health care providers. You know, the old supply and demand formula from the intro to economics course? Currently our health care is rationed by money. You get the $12k/yr plan from your employer and the CEO’s get the $84k per year plan and they pay nothing for theirs!
There will be a shortage of doctors if we don’t let everyone in medical school who can do the work. The shortage will be caused by 10s of millions of new people being in the healthcare system. And by the way, these are just the people here legally, you know the legal citizens of our nation.
The countries with national health care (all developed nations but the U.S.A. have a panel of doctors that establish what treatments are covered. Which is what your insurance company does right now. Who do you think is going to be more fair, the profit driven company, or the federally employed doctor?
We have only to fear fear itself. Get the facts!

I like how people are claiming to have some inside knowledge into the field of medicine when their inability to express coherent ideas makes clear that they don’t possess the intellectual capacity to become doctors.

Clearly, the GOP has resorted to some of the most thuggish and “terroristic” tactics that I’ve ever seen. This is the mentality of the Nazis as it spread like wild fire among ignorant drones. That GOD we are in America where mediums like this allow us to express our views without being yelled down by those who want to perpetuate fear. Bottom line for most of them is simply this whether they want to admit it or not. They resent a non-white person being in office and would really hate to see this country prosper under his leadership. Well, it seems that these thugs will ultimately find themselves in the minority. “Truth pressed down will rise to the top” and with the economy getting better under Obama, they are going to be steaming mad. How dare he show up the previous administration and get this country on the right track. How unconscionable of him is that? I frankly find most of these fear-mongering republicans laughable at times. They talk about First Amendment rights but there’s a caveat – it only applies to them. Well, here’s a newsflash, America voted, THE GOP LOST! Get over it. Cheney and his minion of demons have been reduced to the insignificant scrubs they really are. My only hope is that Holder does his job and bring those thugs to justice and have them charged for their illegal activities. He and Bush should have been impeached. And for Palin to use her child like that as a means to garner some sick form of sympathy is reprehensible. What kind of decent mother would do that, especially, after reading the section she is referring to indicates that she must be a very illiterate woman indeed. She should repeat community college English 101 again.

Do you want to live in a country with only one political party? I don’t. I’m a hardcore dyed in the wool big “D” Democrat. But, even I don’t want my party to become this nations only real political choice. If the Republicans continue down this road that is exactly what could happen. Republicans cannot counter my party with “The President is an illegal alien” or “Obama is going to kill old people” and expect to get mainstream votes. The Republican Party can’t offend Latin voters by calling Justice Sotomayor a racist, offend Jews by calling Barack Obama a Nazi and offend women by offering Bachmann and Palin as competent politicians. What they are engaged in smells like a scheme to make a quick buck off of a handful of ignorant rednecks by corporate cronies at the expense of the country. Nothing more, nothing less. – ITWARZ

I am a retired Army Officer and I have Tricare health insurance. It is a government health care program but is administered by a commercial medical insurance company called Healthnet. It is excellent insurance. I had medical insurance with the pharmaceutical company I work for. It became so expensive and so bureaucratic (health savings accounts, etc.) that I gave it up for Tricare. The issue here is that Tricare will only reimburse hospitals and doctors 80% of the cost. They would take a 20% cut in pay. Since most doctors a very well off (my dentist drives a mercedes and has a vacation home in Florida), they do not want to give up there perks. Plus our doctors and hospitals rip off Medicare and Medicaid by overcharging which has led to the 76 billion dollar debt. Wake up people. Your congressmen are in the back pocket of the AMA, big pharma and the hospitals.

you guys remember those emails leaked from the mccain/palin campaign where she asked them if she could claim in her speeches that at one time her and todd didn’t have health insurance so she could appear to be like a regular citizen? and you remember that the campaign asked todd about it and found out that was a lie.. they always had health insurance? the campaign had to tell her that they wouldn’t support her going around telling lies. she is such a disgrace. god, she has some nerve. i feel sorry for those kids. who’s going to teach them about honesty and integrity?

Seems that Republicans are on a witch hunt,ignoring or refusing to hear facts which would dispute what they’ve been told by their handlers.Can’t these people read? They get led around by there noses vary easily.Of course they’re always railing against “INTELLECTUALS”!!!Maybe thats the problem.Like Saddam,Hitler and numerous other despots in history,Republicans don’t seem to like informed people much.Keep ‘em stupid and they become much more compliant.What people don’t think about is that large sums of money are being spent daily by big Pharma,insurance companies and health care providers to destroy anything that will change the status quo.They want these protests to drown out meaningful dialogue,because if someone actually got to explain it they might just find out the truth.They act like little children who stick their fingers in their ears and say LALALALALA very loudly to block out anything they don’t want to hear.Too bad.

Sail on Sarah, your 15 minutes are over.
Even if you were the best thing that happened to the Dems in years you might consider filling in for Paula Abdul you gals seem to be on the same level when it comes to intellegence.

How is Trig going to get less health care?
Many incidents have been documented of unnecessary testing. Is anyone saying that all doctors do that, or that needed tests should be cut from a vulnerable person’s medical order sheet? With our current system, medical professionals have a big reason to dog for extra testing, needed or not.*$$$$$*In a many-provider system, how could all of these choices be documented and checked? There is a maze of procedures and varying media documenting all of this.*******
In our one size fits all, conveyor belt like relationships many of us currently have with our doctors (my HMO dictates 20 minutes), it must be very difficult to get to know your patients and to really sound out what is up with their health. I guess tests and labwork are concise, standard, branded products which might even hold up very well in court.*****With our impersonal society, where execs have (and in many ways, may continue to) hide from responsibility for their choices, with our govt.’s (since what, the 40′s?)gifting of personhood to the corporation (re:the Bill of Rights), is it any wonder people want to sue for damages? And doctors have huge malpractise insurance bills?()()()()My lament is that big pharm dominates health care as it is currently covered by insurance. Effective, side-effect free, available, more functionally based, some based in medical systems that have an ongoing record of success for thousands of years–these are, for most people, NOT covered. Pharmaceuticals, especially Name Brand (and generic products are usually delayed in coming out to the public). these are incredibly expensive. They so often have little track record, unpleasant or unsafe side effects, often complicating the health and the quality of life of the patient. Yet, this expensive, very narrow part of our economy, is rewarded again and again! This is not only at the financial expense of our health care system–it creates MORE medical problems, often confusing (how many of these are tested relative to their interactivity to other medications people in their target age groups typically take?). AND–it is, truly at the expense of the health of ourselves and the families who love us!*****I do not poo-poo all medications. I lament that so many alternate choices: simple remedies, like properly hydrating oneself, using soaks, being educated by a good stretching or yoga teacher, and, in general: life style, life style, life style–could prevent, and yes, even improve, after the fact, health conditions instead.()()()()()Sadly, in this country, we are, so many of us, born and bred to believe–if we can buy it, and only then, it is worth doing or using. More than anything, we do not teach ourselves to research and to think critically. And there are huge entities which profit immensely from that.**********What we need, are laws to protect us from those who would hide the truths of their products, and to require testing. Expensive? Let’s get over our obsession with tech and ‘modern’, let those in power get over, get AWAY from the purchasing power of BIG PHARMA and BIG PRISON BUILDERS, & the MilIndCmplx!

Palin obviously got her facts wrong again. I guess that is what happens when you don’t actually read the bill but rely on fox news for your info.
This health care reform bill is really good at protecting consumers, something that doesn’t happen with the current systems. The insurance industry is upset that their profits won’t be as high, as they won’t get away with the shell game insurance is now.

Fox just reported that phRMA is going to contribute $150,000,000 (possiby up to $200M) around Labor Day to support the Bill in advertising. There’s a big benefit to drug companies with this Bill because it will improve volume of prescriptions with almost 50,000,000 new clients getting health care. They are also working on a way of getting out of the $80,000,000,000 DEMs wrote into the bill that pharma will be taxed to help pay for the new public health care coverage. Sarah couldn’t have had worse political timing.

This is an informative article but should have mentioned who the Heritage Foundation is. They are an ultra-conservative think-tank, according to wikipedia
‘Heritage has actively pushed for privatization, deregulation, cuts in social spending, and pre-emptive military strikes and engagement. It played a key role in the march to war against Iraq.’
So think about where that kind of logic has got us: an expensive war in Iraq, Blackwater actions now being investigated, our troops being given bad food by private firms and being electrocuted by faulty wiring done by private firms, banking industry de-regulation causing our economic meltdown.
Maybe if the Heritage Foundation is against health care reform, it means it is an excellent idea!

Sara Palin is an empty vessel. How anyone thinks that she’s a natural born leader is beyond me. The things she says don’t make any sense. What is this talk of a ‘death panel’ anyway? This comedy act that the right wing has been giving us could ultimately produce severe consequences in this country. The fact that they take this garbage and people like Palin seriously is a bit unsettling.

Letterman should go after her now that she made these stupid comments and brought her child into it.

I meant to say I can’t afford health insurance.

Republican nut jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This woman who reads “whatever they put in front of me”, obviously has not read any part of the health care bill. Additionally, she shamefully exploits her own child to support her lie about what the bill states. As a mother of a child with special needs, I find her an insult to motherhood. She needs to just make some specific goals to educate herself and keep her mouth shut until she has something of substance to say. By the way, she needs to brush up on her Christian responsibilities not to bear false witness.

That Sarah Palin is quoting Michelle Bachman is priceless. These women are both nuts. I never cease to be amazed at the outrageous lies that they tell to shill their agenda of hate. Nobody is suggesting that her child would be euthanized. This is nothing short of an outright lie when the truth would sound more plausible. That these women have been elected to a position of higher responsiblity than a crossing guard is scary. These are indeed scary times.

This country has been debating health care for decades – and people still whine that they want to “slow down, get it right.” In the meantime, we have one political party that can’t seem to stop kissing big pharmas butt, and the opposition party which only represents the interests of big insurance and big pharma.
Has anyone’s health insurance premiums gone DOWN while we “slow down”? Have any American lives been saved who didn’t have insurance while we “slow down?” Has anyone in the last Administration done ANYTHING to stem the outrageous growth in expenses for health care in this country? How much slower can we get?
At this point, about the only health care plan I expect to see out of the GOP is a requirement that all Americans have to pay into Benny Hinn’s ministry and seek faith healing before seeing any medical professional. After all, the party already insists that we have an official religion in this country and that every citizen is required to be beholden to it.
Ok…I’ll amend that…one GOP congressman is willing to offer a $3500 tax deduction for health care for PETS – that’s $1000 less than the party is willing to offer HUMANS.

The gov can have a used car salesman interview us every five years on our automotive needs (now that they are in the car business). I am sure that they will be just as unbiased as the end of life counselors.

Gosh, Philosopher Jack. . .shouldn’t we be even the least bit concerned about what those “options” might be? Like the “privatized” SOCIALISTIC schemes called “insurance” companies now – you know, the ones who base everyone’s premiums on the payouts for a few – except for PROFIT? And what about those privatized health organizations who have been assessed huge fines for defrauding the government? Shouldn’t we be a bit wary about offering those as an option? Or perhaps the public should know from the start what the profit margin is for each health care provider and insurance group…
You know, I had excellent health care and insurance up until the early 1980′s…when the industry started being rapidly deregulated. No lists of “network” doctors and hospitals, no dozens of statements from various sources for a simple outpatient operation…no massive binder of dictated insurance services that can be changed at a moments notice without ANY negotiation with the consumer.
Back then, I paid a simple $100 deductable and everything was covered. Today, of course, the deductable is three times higher with such a list of co-pays, acceptable doctors and hospitals, lists of what is paid and what isn’t that it takes an accountant to figure out the system.

Hey It’s open season on Palin’s kids. This idiot sure wants it both ways. She doesn’t want the media to talk about her family but then invokes them in her first ‘major’ statement since resigning from the job she was unqualified for.
The American public was right to vote Obama in if only because McCain must’ve had his head up his ass when he picked her. What a joke. Republican’s need to stop living in the past. The rest of the world thinks she is an idiot.
I challenge any Republican to find one political pundit from outside the Republican Party who thinks this woman is intelligent.
McCain had a chance right up to when he rejected Romney for his religious beliefs.
Please please stop talking about Palin she is perpetrating an image of an uneducated America.

Palin makes the Obots crazy because she is so much tougher than Obama.
He’s such a weak leader he can’t even control his own party. Still can’t pass cap/tax or health reform even with
total control of House/Senate/WH.
He’s got Bush’s swagger, arrogance and smirky expression and even kept most of Bush policies.
He’s antiwar but leaves thousands of troops in Iraq and even wants a surge in Afghanistan.
To top it off he wears mom jeans and throws like a sissy.
Palin is tougher and always will be.
At least she can make a decision and stick to it.

Could Palin please contribute something useful to the debate for a change?
Every advanced country in the world has some form of universal health coverage.

Its going to be interesting watching the republican/conservative movement degenerate over the next few months, there’s really nothing left. Layer by layer we are seeing the core of the conservative movement that has dominated this country for thirty years. The veneer of rationality and reasonable thought, even grace and respectabilty, is fading away. The era of Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush has long faded away. Those people could not and would not be considered true conservatives by the current power base in the republican party. So we are left with Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. Dimwits and morons who use misinformation, ignorance and malevolence as tools to keeps there equally lame supporters in mental slavery.

“I don’t have insurance. I take responsibility for myself by living a reasonably healthy lifestyle.”
My friend’s dad lived a healthy lifestyle until he got Parkinson’s disease.

The huge irony is that Palin may have totally mismanaged healthcare in Alaska for the elderly and people with disabilities.
From the Anchorage Daily News, July 14, 2009:
“….the state Supreme Court ruled last year that the state had improperly cut off or reduced services to more than 1,000 needy people….
“A particularly alarming finding concerns deaths of adults in the programs. In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs. Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help.”

It’s much easier to lash out at Palin townhall protesters, or anyone than admit what a huge disappointment Obama is turning out to be.
Rather than admit that he fooled so many of his devoted supporters into believing he was something different.
It’s got to sting to find out he is as corrupt as most politicians.
Rev Wright warned them–they just didn’t want to hear it.

Obama is a Harvard elitist that is so full of himself he has forgotten what it is like to be an ordinary person.
He lectures and says pompous things like recalibrate and rhetorical flourishes, and bitter people clinging to their guns.. Who talks like that?
Sarah Palin is something Obama never will be—one of us.
The media and his supporters put him on a pedestal and he loves it there.

You betcha!

Seriously..you guys are slamming a president as a failure SIX MONTHS into his presidency..where the hell were you “reasonable” people when Bush was raping our country and our civil rights for 8 YEARS. Change won’t come over night. One solution will not fix everything. Give him four years before you judge his policies. Maybe you guys could do a little less Chicken Little and a little more support. Quit twisting the facts like Palin here. Death Panel. Don’t be ignorant.

Children with Down’s syndrome can’t become productive members of society? I wonder if ex-govenors of Alaska can become productive members of society or do they just become annoying private citizens?
Thank goodness she isn’t one of us..

The comments by Palin are simply insane. No one in their right mind believes the current versions of the health plan includes any such draconian, facist thoughts. It’s simply False, False, FALSE!!
Read the actual plan, try to attend a meeting (and not get drowned out by the Fascists who don’t want it discussed).
Lastly, remember this. The USA already HAS a socialist health plan, it’s called MEDICARE and works – for the most part – very, very well. I’m 51 years old – my taxes are going to pay the health care bills of the very ones on Medicare complaining – why can’t I have the same plan (ie, medicare) they do?? What makes them so special (other than being 65 or older?)
Medical care should be a RIGHT – just like Police Protection, Fire Protection – both of these are provided to citizens regardless if they have Fire Insurance or Police Protection Insurance (no such thing)…
Medical care is the same.
Remember, bureaucrats not doctors are right Now – RIGHT NOW – making all the decisions on what they will pay for – people in it for the Money are determining who gets cancer drugs, or diabetic medicine – where are the hordes of people talking about that eh?
Nowhere.
Just these idiots like Palin who cannot understand plain English – and who want to maintain the status quo of non-doctors determining care (the insurance company execs)..
Sometimes, the idiocy of Americans is just incomprehensible.

Nice to see the liberals have someone new to hate. It would look foolish to continue hating Bush now that he is gone.
Someone should tell Obama it’s time to move on from Bush.
Kind of hypocritical to keep bashing Bush but keeping many of his policies.
I love Sarah Palin….More courage in her pinky toe than in Obama’s whole body.

NO WONDER TOP REPUBLICANS CANT ENDORSE HER AS PRESIDENT!!!

Conspiracy Theory is the new opiate of the masses. People can take any action and turn it into a “1984″ scenario. The bill will be revised a hundred times before it passes. Look at it this way. NOWHERE else in the world do people go bankrupt because of medical expenses. We are trying to get a bare minimum of healthcare for everyone here. It is likely this will cost more, in taxes. The alternative is to do nothing, and allow healthcare to continue to spin out of control. Nowhere is anyone talking about euthenasia, or limiting your health care based on your social status. Only fools and sheep really believe the government plans to become nazi germany.The only way your “choice” will be taken away is if you allow it to -like you did with Bush-

I really think this woman is sick…I really think so.

She turned me off when she brought Trig in this. Leave the little boy out!

Most of the people who are protesting shamefully are on medicare AKA GOVERNMENT RUN healthcare!! So what is this really about…clearly an anti-Obama movement. The republican party cannot accept the fact that this nation is changing with new, fresh and diverse faces. They are a bunch of SOUR GRAPES!!!

Latinos will not be voting Republican after what they did to Sotomayor!!

Palin is genuine.
What you see is what you get.
Obama is anything but.
Compare candidate Obama to president Obama.
He duped everyone. Well everyone that voted for him. Some of us did our homework.

I bet most of the Dems in DC don’t really care for Obama.
Most reasonable people don’t really like a bully.
But they put all their eggs in one basket.
Without Obama the Dems have nothing.
Even less than the Repubs.
Who do they have Biden? Pelosi?
Al Franken?

The libs don’t need to get their panties in a wad over what Palin said.
The elderly mobsters are well-informed.
Everyone knows what BO said about taking a painkiller. They know about Ezekial Emanuel.
Americans know more about Obamacare that he does. Don’t blame Palin.

So Obama has 50% approval ratings.
And 70% believe health care reform will raise the deficit–and affect the quality of their care.
Doesn’t that mean that a heck of a lot of Obama’s supporters don’t believe what he is saying.
So his own supporters don’t think he is credible? Ouch!!!
Palin 2012

Sarah: Stop blaming people for picking on your children. Most politicians keep their families out of the public eye but you display them as often as you can and this latest thing with Trit. He is a wonderful child …try to keep him that way and out of the limelight. You can’t have it both ways. You are the only one bringing attention to your family.

Obama owns ABC too. The media has it in for Palin, even when she raises good points that need discussion.It’s easier for them just to mock her than answer her points with good counter arguments.
Congress is voting on a healthcare plan that even they don’t know enough about. They haven’t read the manifesto it’s become. And they, our “representatives” need to agree to be treated under whatever plan that emerges, and give up the fancy separate plan they have.And healthcare reform without malpractice reform is a non-starter. It will fail before it begins. How will the lawyers sue Dr. Obama anyway??

Whom does she think she’s kidding. By the time I (a healthy 50 year old) die, it will be possible to keep anyone alive for an extra year, or two or maybe ten, for a million dollars a year ($500,000 if you shop around). That will eat up every dollar of the US GDP, then some. By that time, any insurance system, whether public or private, will have to find a polite way to say “Sorry, it’s just not worth keeping you alive.”. Does Palin really want to turn the US into a powerless, broke nation of cripples?

“47 million americans have no healthcare — not because they do not want it but because they can not afford it.”
Sorry Cathy, but that is just not true.
This Census report says that within the borders of the United States as of 2007 there were 45.65 people without health insurance. But this number, according to the Census Bureau, included 9.73 million foreigners, leaving only 35.92 Americans who were uninsured.
The Census Bureau also said that the number of uninsured people was declining.
“Both the percentage and number of people without health insurance decreased in 2007,” said the Census Bureau report.
Among the uninsured in the United States, the Census Bureau said, there were also 9.1 million people making more than $75,000 per year who did not choose to purchase health insurance.
I hate to have to break it to you, but Marxists WILL lie to advance their evil plans.

can hardly leave Trig out as he is the baby with Downs and some would say no use to anyone i am 82 have lung cancer and COPD and getting help from medicareso some one willsay I am not worth much to society my family likes me, my neighbors like me and there must be a reason for living and I am not sure that some one in WAshington should decide when i should die
Palin is a smart women. Get over the idea that she and Pres Bush are stupid. Bush’s college grades were better than John Kerry’s

d_p wrote: “The health care plan does not contain “death panel” language. It does, however, leave the door conspicuously open.”
Aha! Now it’s starting to become clear. Palin once said to Greta Van Susteren: “I’m like, OK, God, if there is an open door for me somewhere, this is what I always pray, I’m like, don’t let me miss the open door. Show me where the open door is. Even if it’s cracked up a little bit, maybe I’ll plow right on through that and maybe prematurely plow through it, but don’t let me miss an open door.”
So Sarah found her crack and plowed up a death panel! What a creatively manipulative imagination she has.

I am a cancer survivor. My bill ended up being over $250,000. What did I pay:$0.00. Between Medicare and my supplemental plan I was covered. All under socialized medicine that so many of you are so afraid of. So, I’ll tell you what – when you qualify for Medicare and Social Security, write the government and tell them you do not want Medicare benefits and send your social security check back. And if you need the police or firemen, or your road repaired, do not call them – they are covered under “socialist programs” oh, and forget about going to the library, the museums, your favorite park..
Posted by: sandy | Aug 8, 2009 11:16:06 PM
========================================
Sandy, first you need to understand that what people are upset about is not necessarily helping legal american citizens who cannot afford to help themselves, it is the audcaity of the government to put yet another hand into our lives and DICTATE To us how things are going to be.
Right now, illegal aliens will recieve coverage, just like they do with medicaid, social security, welfare, food stamps, housing assistance and jobs.
How many legal american citizens that are homeless right now that could use that assistance? How much more money could our LEGAL elderly citizen receive from social security if that money wasnt going to illegal aliens?
ABortion? 99% of abortions or SELECTIVE therefore why should tax payers pay for them? This is not a debate about whether or not it should be legal but rather whether or not tax payers should be forced to pay for them.
Preferential treatment for minorities in the medical workforce with tax payers money. Why is that A) even part of the bill to which tax payers will be expected to pay for in the tens-of-billions of dollars and B) Shouldnt the bill read to “give grants to those who educate, hire and retain QUALIFIED medical personell? Why does race have to be in this bill? Seems a bit discriminatory to the majority of society don’t you think?
Penalized if you either do not have insurance or do not have the CORRECT insurance-why? I have posted this on here all week, an straight from the bill as it reads today where the government will tax your GROSS income 2.5% if you either do not have health insurance or you do not have health insurance that the GOVERNMENT approves of.
Look, most people pay into social security and medicare with the hopes that when they reach 65 they too will have access to that money-it is like a savings account (the only way I can describe it) but when you are giving that money to people who are illegally here and have NEVER Paid into the system or paid barley anything, you are taking away from those who have worked, paid into the system and are here LEGALLY!

Lying about something to scare people for your own political gain is simply wrong. Using your wonderful and disabled child as a prop for your political lie is REPREHENSIBLE.
Gov. “Winker” is no longer just attractively kooky or eccentric. In L. Cheney’s words, “This is not a good woman.” Palin has money and political connections so her baby will get good care. The rest of Americans with Down Syndrome kids have to deal with health insurance carriers who regularly deny them coverage.

KMDay – illegals pay income tax, social security tax, and other taxes depending on where they live. And sorry, but illegals have no play in what I get in social security benefits. I earned my benefits from years of hard work. Social security benefits are based on what you earn the last five years that you are employed. Illegals do not have the education I have nor can they aspire to earn as much as I make in social security payments because they do not have that educational background.
I live is a state with a high illegal population – I do not see any people without jobs because illegals have them. People can get a job anywhere in this state on par with any job any illegal holds. It is not because people cannot get jobs – they are too lazy to work. Same with housing. Illegals do not live in penthouses – they live in whatever is available – old beat-up trailers, barns, sheds, and sometimes some earn enough money to get decent housing.
If you want something constructively done about illegals, then go after employers who hire them. Supply and demand – an age-old story.
Posted by: sandy | Aug 9, 2009 12:02:54 AM
======================================Really? They pay all of what you say huh? Interesting, because even the united states government would argue otherwise. Even the states down here in the south who border mexico would argue otherwise.
Social Security is bankrupt-try to deny this one. The government, as of last month is stating that SS will be dried up by 2030 if not before then.
If you would like, I can give you a long list of immigration attorney who will disagree with you as to how many illegal aliens that DO IN FACT get social security and never paid into the systems, not once.
I am not sure what state you are in, but in Texas there are issues and the state in fact cracks down on employeers who hire illegals.
What state are you in?

You write that page 425 of the House Democrats’ bill “DIRECTS THE MEDICAL PROVIDER TO…”
Talk about sounding fishy! There’s enough said right there in that phrase to give a citizen pause. Who wants House Democrats – or any other government bureaucrats – directing our doctors, giving statutory orders to our cardiologists, gynecologists, oncologists, pediatricians and family docs? Not I. Not me. Not my family. No way.
Like the leftists USED to say, “power to the people.” Oh, and “keep your laws off my body.” And… “dissent is patriotic.”

I had to have outpatient surgery last year, but needed over $6000.00 to get it first. What did we have to do? Sell our car so I could pay for it. I have just one medication that cost $900.00 a month, if it weren’t for a program that helps get meds for people who can not afford them, I wouldn’t be able to take my needed medication. I hope no one else in our family needs any medical care before we get a public option. The American people pay even more when people are homeless and that’s what happens to people who have to give up everything for medical care. The Republicans are in the tank to the insurance and pharmaceutical companies who donate millions to them. The insurance companies are spending over a million a day to fight a public option. Why do you think that is? Because they are rich beyond anyone’s imagination and they will give up millions upon millions to stop it. Government workers, seniors, disabled, and vets have great government health care, why can’t all of us? The ones who are against it should be forced to give up their government run health care, but they have it and could care less if we don’t. Palin has government health care she should pay her own way with her attitude. She continues to ramp up the fringe because she hates President Obama so much she won’t even call him president. Fear the black man, he’s not one of us. Sorry $arah he does have a title and he’s not evil you are.
Posted by: jo | Aug 9, 2009 12:12:08 AM
========================================
You are a perfect example—-it is called REGULATION not Government Run Health Care. There is a HUGE difference.
If the government would regulate, which is what they are suppose to do, companies that are charging outrageous prices for medical treatment and medicine, over half of our country’s health care issues would go away. The other half, chalk 75% of that to needed tort reform!

Sunsine wrote: “Of course if all the congressman and Senators would stop taking all the trips to vaction resorts and taking all the family along with them at the tax payers expense we might not have all this deficit spending. Their perks come out of your pocket.”
Don’t forget about a certain governor who recently quit her job. As part of an ethics complaint settlement, she will repay about $10,000 for family travel reimbursements she took at the expense of Alaskan taxpayers. She is also paying back taxes on these “perks” that had not been claimed on her income taxes. Can you guess her name?

Healthcare reform is needed! And only one party is proposing any kind of change. If the Republicans have a better idea, let’s hear it! They think it’s OK for insurance and pharmaceutical companies to dictate what care we get and how much we pay. I say, NO WAY! Enough is enough, let’s join the rest of the industrialized world and take care of our sick.
Posted by: Mimi | Aug 9, 2009 12:46:07 AM
====================================== Watch CSPAN dear because the bias media is obviously not reporting it enough or you are not paying attention.
The Republican have offered over 700 amendments to which the democrats are either refusing to even consider in each of the committees to even bring to the floor for a vote or are voting against them via party line vote.
Also, there are four, that is 4 Republicans that have come up with a different version of the health care bill, but because they are not in the majority they cannot get it in to even be heard.

People do not be fooled by the agents of corporations who are trying to shape this debate in their favor. If they win average American loses
Posted by: Dave Adedokun | Aug 9, 2009 1:08:15 AM
========================================
If the European system is so wonderful, wwhy not move there? The last time I checked, our forefathers left that country and the rule of absolut government control for a reason.
It is also why in the Constitution the ggovernment has little power, most is left to the states hence why you see over 30 states preparing to invoke their 10th amendment rights to essentially tell the government to back off!

If the European system is so wonderful, why not move there? The last time I checked, our forefathers left that country
Posted by: KMDay
yes… those Europeans, when they left their ‘country’ they became the first illegal immigrants to what later came to be know as the U.S.A.
re: over 30 states preparing to invoke their 10th amendment rights to essentially tell the government to back off!
hence…. those states should immediately stop taking all monies of any kind from the federal government… any military installations should also be removed from those states… all infrastructure renovations funded by the federal government should cease…. any federal funding for health, education, whatever should stop… so the states can adhere to their ‘states rights’
Betcha, ( apologies to Ms. Palin ) that most of the states getting the ‘states rights’ vibe are already getting way more money from the government than they ever send back in taxes..

Deception: The Palin speech that the
Government will decide who will get care, live or die. Hogwash!! My wife and
I pay Medicare part ‘B’ about $98.00 a month. I paid into Medicare part ‘A’ when I worked for 28 years when in 1965 Medicare started. My wife and I pay Keystone 65, $260.00 a month plus co-pays and prescription co-pays. Approximate cost for both of us: $8540.00, and that doesn’t include co-pays for medical visits and prescriptions. The premiums we pay for
medical coverage are taxable. Whereas the premiums paid for by most employers
for their employees exempts the employees from federal taxes and the employer gets to right off the premiums they pay.. Now who will benefit from the
Health Care reform proposal? Retirees who pay their own premiums, those who cannot afford insurance and work but don’t qualify for Medicaid. Those who cannot pay because they can’t find work, and if they did they earn above what Medicaid sets as a limit to qualify for the benefit.
All you seniors should not be fooled by the GOP opposing health care reform. You will benefit if you are paying for health insurance as we are. A living will gives YOU the right, not anyone else to determine what measures you want provided to you when you are hospitalized and it is possible you may
suffer complications. Where a living will is in place for a relative or friend to make a decision for you when you are unable to and by following what you dictated in the living will. They will tell the doctors your wish to live or not to be put on life support, etc,etc..
Think about it, don’t

“Bringing down the cost of health care” in a socialist system means bureaucrats deciding who is and is not worthy to receive it.
If an elderly person is bed-ridden and unresponsive with no hope of recovery, why prolong it? Why not kill them in the name of “bringing down the cost of health care?” Through Obama’s carefully coded “end of life” counseling, many elderly people could be duped into agreeing to end their own lives early.
The health of a disabled child is certainly a lower priority than a child who is not disabled.
If you can read through the carefully coded wording, this is the Obama plan in a nutshell.

Mr. Tapper: Please provide ONE example of a private insurer making a decision that a person cannot have access to the medical technology or pharmaceutical drugs that person “is willing to pay their own money.” Or else please shut up and quit stating your BS as if it was “reporting.”

Palin/Bachmann 2012!
Posted by: Alyson
running on the xenophobic, paranoia, your not part of my america, burning books, bible thumping, christian identity, ID & prayer, creationism in schools.. Platform
go for it….

Palin is as Palin does,
as thick as a brick,
as there ever was,
Africa is a coffee,
and beans are a state,
She is a quitter,
who can’t legislate,
PALIN \ GUMP in 2012!

these misrable rich companies and rethugs are nothing more than licensed killers and thieves-and all these bogus meeting disruptions are a joke-we are gonna win folks-the dems will win

what part of giving illegal aliens everything but the key to my house . have to do with a health care plan. they haven’t done one thing to earn all the free priveleges that obama wants to just hand them on a silver platter. not no but hell no no health care plan as long as you try and put stupid extremely costly amendments in the plan such as these . time for congress to wake up before they all are forced out of washington and replaced with a few honest people who really do give a damn about america and not the almighty dollar in their own pocket from mine.

here are some other key factors Sarah Palin has left out. the same people who keep people impoverished are about to take over our health care.
· The House has voted to kill a resolution offered by House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) that criticizes Democrats for not allowing Republicans to send constituents mail that raises questions about the Democrats’ health care reform bill.
· The vote to table, or kill the resolution was 244-173. Roll call of the vote
Here’s another chart they don’t want you to see….
City, State, % of People Below the Poverty Level
1. Detroit , MI 32.5%
2. Buffalo , NY 29..9%
3. Cincinnati , OH 27.8%
4. Cleveland , OH 27.0%
5. Miami , FL 26.9%
5. St. Louis , MO 26.8%
7. El Paso , TX 26.4%
8. Milwaukee , WI 26.2%
9. Philadelphia , PA 25.1%
10. Newark , NJ 24.2%
U.S. Census Bureau, 2006 American Community Survey, August 2007
What do the top ten cities (over 250,000) with the highest poverty rate all have in common?
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Buffalo, NY (2nd) hasn’t elected one since 1954;
Cincinnati , OH (3rd)…since 1984;
Cleveland , OH (4th)…since 1989;
Miami , FL (5th) has never had a Republican mayor;
St. Louis , MO (6th)….since 1949;
El Paso , TX (7th) has never had a Republican mayor;
Milwaukee , WI (8th)…since 1908;
Philadelphia , PA (9th)…since 1952;
Newark , NJ (10th)…since 1907.
WE REST OUR CASE….

The Heritage Foundation’s Thomas Sowell wrote a column, “Utopia Versus Freedom,” in which he warned readers to “not be surprised when life-and-death decisions about you or your family are taken out of your hands — and out of the hands of your doctor — and transferred to bureaucrats in Washington.”
This will the Inevitable result of handing over power over our Health to politicians, their clerks, and the DC Borg. It comes down to whether you Trust that, or prefer to maintain control.
P.S. when reporting to Obama’s Domestic Spy-Site, be sure to spell the handle correctly.

What’s the point, are you afraid to offer logical rationalization to the other party instead of fostering hatred. Seems like your belief system is askew. All one has to do is read mail from a professed republican and the desire to distance yourself from the party, their attitude, and policies only increases…..greed !greed! GOP= Greedy Old Politicians…. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to run for president clnging to that skirttail and transposing it to some type of moral decency………………

Hey Break Time,
Being from Texas, OUR state sends much more than just money to the fed.’s than receives. Our memories here are much longer than most.
In the 80′s when there was the big oil bust. Every other non-oil producing state trashed our citizens. When we had double digit unemployment no one gave a flip about aid here. So we got smart and became the new silicon valley(Austin), the largest wind generating electric state(as of 2008) and still one of the largest oil and natural gas producing state. Also, one of if not the largest, petroleum refining states in the US.
I don’t know where you’re from but you’re probably driving your car, heating and cooling your house and sending comments on your computer because of work done by one of my fellow Texans.
We are tired of sending our hard earned money to Washington DC and watching it being wasted on legislation like the stimulus package, the omnibus spending bill, earmarks for special worthless projects and this ridiculous health-care bill.
By the way, We will be happy to succeed and pay for OUR OWN military. You forget we were our own republic before joining the US! We know how to take care of our own here. Does your state?

The majority of the people in this country (quickly) elected President Obama on his platform, The Economy, Health Care, Clean Energy and Education.
Nothing has changed. We watch as the Republicans show their professional side side of debate. Hollering, Screaming and Threats. Let them spend their money to do what they do best. We ohave the votes to get it done and we need to do it. We will take care of the sellouts (to lobbyists) at the polls. The American people have become smarter than some of their elected officials, sick and tired of the dumb stuff and we eelect comedians too. What is a real comedian? Someone who can tell the truth and make you laugh. That’s a politician sent by the people.

Come on Mr. Tapper. I know you need to maintain good working relations with your colleagues in the Obama Press Corp, but to accuse Sarah Palin of “taking liberties of her own” because she labels the “advance care planning consultation” feature of the proposed legislation a “death panel”, is hopelessly naive. While I am sure such consultations wouldn’t function as “death panels” on day one, you only need to read some commentary from Britain’s NHS and its so-called NICE committee, or horror stories from Canada’s (and even France’s) government-run healthcare systems to see that a bureaucracy that rules on the sanctioning and witholding of treatments is an inevitable outcome of such one-payer systems. So, the term “death panel” is both a masterful rhetorical flourish on Palin’s part and an entirely non-liberty-taking characterisation of the Orwellian “advance care planning consultations”. And I suspect you know it.

ellsbells930 wrote: “If Medicare was SO great,you wouldn’t need a supplemental plan. And the current charge for Part B is MORE than what I pay for family coverage under my employer.”
Well aren’t you special! Nationally, the employee share for family health coverage averaged about $280 a month in 2008.

I do enjoy the ramblings here ,posted by many who have never ( hopefully never will) had to spend time in a hospital for a serious illness..
your perspective would be changed…
‘academic’ & imaginary discussions on one’s own health care plan vanish when you are on your back looking up in pain…..

“Death panel” is a masterful rhetorical flourish? What a lovely euphemism for another bald-faced Palin whopper.
Oh, and don’t forget to call it by its full name – Obama’s Death Panel – just like Sarah refers to it on Facebook. Wouldn’t want to miss an opportunity to demonize the president.

JRussell: As long as we’re name-calling I would say “At least Republicans can spell – - and use punctuation properly”.
WWW: Thanks for pointing out my oversight. Yes, “Obama’s Death Panel” is a masterful rhetorical flourish. And from the dim-witted Alaskan bimbo too. She must have had a speech-writer.

“Palin Paints Picture of ‘Obama Death Panel’ Giving Thumbs Down to Trig”
(Bet she was finger painting…..)

From Legal Insurrection blog:
While Emanuel does not use the term “death panel,” Palin put that term in quotation marks to signify the concept of medical decisions based on the perceived societal worth of an individual, not literally a “death panel.” And in so doing, Palin was true to Dr. Emanuel’s concept of a system which
“considers prognosis, since its aim is to achieve complete lives. A young person with a poor prognosis has had a few life-years but lacks the potential to live a complete life. Considering prognosis forestalls the concern the disproportionately large amounts of resources will be directed to young people with poor prognoses. When the worst-off can benefit only slightly while better-off people could benefit greatly, allocating to the better-off is often justifiable….
When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”
Obama supports such a panel.
This is one you missed, Jake.

My husband and I own a small buiness and we pay over 70K a year for insurance. We can pool with other small business owners for workers compensation coverage for lower rates, but not for healthcare coverage. Our workers compensation coverage dropped from 16K to 5K by merely joining a member organization. Can anyone tell me why this wouldn’t work for healthcare.
The last thing we need is more government involvement. Innovation does not start with the government. What have they ever deveoped that was wildly successful? When have they ever saved the taxpayer a dollor?
We don’t trust the their judgment. I read and the counseling for pallpative care is just scary. There is no provision for appeals of any decisions made by their panel. They specifically do not allow for an appellate process. If my private insurer denies me coverage, I can sue. That provision is not available in a public option.

There is nothing wrong with what she said:
“The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.”
Wise up, America.

I would be really sacred if this health plan works out like SSI/SSD for those who need… hmmmm Its been over 5 years that I have been waiting even though I payed into it all my working years…. never mind me just call me a mother a grandmother and welfare receiver

Sarah Palin sure has not read nor does she understand the legal formatting of the health care reform plan, or else she is making these statements only for her own personal gain politically. As a past governor she should most definitely understand the terminology used in this plan. Fact is fact, she was a governor and was susposed to be a leader of her own state, which includes understanding new bills. But she has just shown she doesn’t. I find this blatant pandering/lying to all voters. Yes, she may now be a private citizen, but she is also gone public politically makin these statement and is using her past political service to influence what people think politically. Legally this public political statement information can therefore justifiablly be criticized. Note – Sarah Palin has instructed and threatened through her attorney to sue anyone who criticized her. Sarah Palin also directed her attorney to serve summons/disposition papers upon an Alaska opponent blogger at his kindergarten class. Sarah Palin had no concern about all the innocent children she would affect. Her goal was indeed to get him fired. And she succeeded in a way. Whether he quite or was fired I do not know. She has done this many times before. Look at her political record. I could care less if blogger was right or wrong. I care about all the kindergarten children she wanted to subject them to. Our community of parents would never tolerate her purposeful bullying tactics in our town.
Sarah Palin has made very serious derogatory statements in writing that were made public against health care reform plan that are not true in any way. I ask why she is doing this??? Why is she doing this to all Americans??? Supporters and nonsupporters should be asking all the WHY’S regarding these purposefully made untrue statements??? As a Republican that is what I am asking??
Absolute facts are everyone one of us should have in place our own end of life documents so our wishes can be respected. I am 64 and mine have been in place since 1996, and are same ones this plan is referring to. They were written up by our attorney. Why? Because We want our wishes repected if we can’t make decisions any longer. We did not want to place this decision burden upon our children. Someone needs to be named to make these decisions and give the doctors these documents. Legal documents do need to be in place. This is not easy. No one likes to face our own mortality. I didn’t either, but knew it must be done.
Folks what this plan states is not medically new. Presently good medical professionals now encourage patients to go get counseliing,and get documents set up. If they haven’t, they should. Most people set up through their own attorneys to make sure they are getting unbiased advice and protections are in place for their own welfare, but can also be done at medical facilities if patient wishes or does not want to pay an attorney. These are our choices alone, not anyone telling us what to do.
This health care reform plan has no “death sentence panel” as Sarah Palin claims. Actually what is being proposed improves medical condition coverage, as insurane companies can no longer deny many benefits, or deny coverage on existing conditions.
People argue plan will ration care!! Everyone – presently care is quite rationed and is actually worse by insurance companies than it would be under reform plan. Coverage will actually be improved under reform plan. Do we still need to be our own proadvocate?? Sure, we must always be active in our medical care and who we see.
Do I know?? Yes, I am a college educated white medical professional and am also familiar with legal formatting of bills. I am now retired, and am very interested in staying informed of news on health care reform debate. I want the best coverage possible. I see the reform plan would be a step in right direction to help control the spiralling costs. Cost control will always be a battle, but it can be done.
I get very angry when my party – yes I am a Republican – has been spreading so many real blatant lies. This is my personal past livelihood profession and I have years of expertise in this field My political party is actually lying and spreading lies for only political gains. I can see the facts, have analyzed for facts, and have attempted to find support for my party. I am known for being fair, and honestly can find no support for Republican party continued statment lies about this health care reform plan. I am quite alarmed.

Hey Break Time,
We sure don’t need your sympathy here!
By the way, are you ashamed to say which state you’re from?
What’s wrong with the history of the Alamo? Who’s not telling the truth about the battle?
The tax money that Texas has paid, to the Fed.’s, more than paid for the ‘immigration’ fence in Texas. Which we are trying to keep out illegals, which are quickly becoming your biggest voting block.
Tell me where you live and we’ll send them to your bleeding heart, broke, liberal state and you can take care of them. We’re sick and tired of of being forced to take care of them! That’s one of the big problems with your party’s thinking.’ Life is fair’. ‘Life’s not fair’. If you’re NOT a citizen of this country, go to your country and get help. That may sound mean but your party is killing our Nation by giving away services that the illegals have not earned!
As far as Enron goes, don’t go there. There are scams happening everyday. The Enron scandle hurt many people. At least one of the participants did the right thing. Mr. Lay killed himself. One we don’t have to pay for in the penal system.
Be honest and look at what your Mr. Johnson, Mr. Carter and Mr. Clinton did to our financial system. With the assistance of Mr. Frank and Mr. Dodd, recently, they all decided the financial industry better loan money to people that couldn’t afford it. I think this action cost not only millions of hard workers their jobs but, millions upon millions lost their retirements. A little worse than Enron.
Oh, don’t try to blame it on Bush. There are to many video and published articles proving Bush and Treas. Sec. Snow warned Congress about what eventually would happen if Fannie and Freddie weren’t regulated.
Every time you GIVE someone something they DON’T deserve it comes back to haunt you.
Why are you so afraid of Creationism? Are you afraid of giving kids choices? Are you afraid they might grow up with morals?
If you have studied any history about Kennedy and this trip. You would have known he was well warned to have the bullet proof top, or at least SS standing on the back bumper to shield him.
How dare you presume we take pride in Texas for his assassination. I surely despised his, his father’s and brother’s open philandering but, he did not deserve to be assassinated.
Oh I forgot, personal life is separate from their job life……(Right!!)
We had Reagan and Bush for Presidents. Carter had driven interest rates, debt and inflation so high in the late 70′s that we finally got a President that could communicate to the people. Also, could communicate what the people wanted to a Democratic House and Senate.
He proved that bipartisanship can work, unlike your illustrious, empty shirt, opaque, untruthful Obama. No one in their right mind trusts this man. How can they? He has gone against everything he said he wouldn’t do when he ran for pres.
You know I really wanted Obama to ‘CHANGE’ things in DC. If you are really honest, we didn’t know anything about him before he was elected and we are only now seeing he not only is the same as ALL the DC politicians, he’s WORSE.
But, I forgot it’s GW’s fault. Your boy inherited $750 billion in debt , with a ‘B’ and he quickly turned it into $1.5 trillion with a ‘T’. Looks like with the rest of his spending we’ll add about another $1 – 2 Trillion of debt, at least, a year for the next 10 years.
So, let’s just spend away. What do you think?

Instead of coming up with her own plan to cover the uninsured… she and her party berate the plans on the table. Instead of working together to come up for a solution… they just say NO to everything. If they believe EVERYONE should have great healthcare that keeps every human being alive (even against their will and that of nature’s) then where is their plan?? If they don’t want the govt to manage health care, WHO do they expect will do it? If you are unemployed or unemployable, then what? Are those people expendable in her eyes? She’s an idiot pawn speaking to idiot pawns. Remember, it’s the economy stupid (it’s not healthcare).

Remember the truck loads of water that where parked next to stadium during Katrina but no one knew. A great example of Government planning.
Posted by: pat
yeah.. remember how long Bush and Co. ignored the entire Katrina event before figuring out something was wrong..
Palin & Bachmann 2012

This debate is about freedom.
Posted by: pat
we saw what the ‘conservative’ republican evangelical’s version of ‘freedom’ was during the Schiavo mess..
geeze, where where all those freedom/get the government out of our lives folks protesters back then……. oh yeah, thas’ right ..they wanted their govt. to step in and interfere in private family matters
Palin/Buchannan in 2012

I’m sorry. Someone gave her the term Death Panel. Initially, I’m sure Mrs. Palin thought that was the name of a Heavy Metal Band, where she didn’t name one of her children after the lead singer from the 80′s. Death Panel. Where are Republicans getting these tired terms? The unused Karl Rove Playbook?

What’s amazing to me about the right-wing, “christian” bunch is that they have so little faith in anything except what Rush and Sarah tell them. Sheep wrapped in christian clothing… unless, of course, it benefits their particular point at any given moment.

Health care will bankrupt this country if something doesn’t change! The plan being proposed is not a “nationalized system” Republicans and even some Democrats want you to belive this it is NOT TRUE! I agree with GTO ask anyone over the age of 65 to give up their medicare. They won’t do it! And what is medicare? A single payer government run system that is the most efficent in the world. Thailand has begun their own universal health care system and guess what it is modeled after MEDICARE. One other fact about Thailand their system gets the best results and has the highest approval among its citizens. Do your research and LEARN about what healthcare costs now and what it would cost under a universal system. The results may surprise you. And stop buying into the propaganda. It doesn’t help your case!

I don’t know what plan any of youhave read seeing as, THERE IS NO ONE PLAN!
H.R. 3200 is not a complete bill so all of you need to take a deep breath, turn off Rush and Sahra and get a grip.
That Palin woman is a complete twit, she ruined John McCain and she is about to turn the Republican party into a regional party for a generation.

My husband and I are on the government run Medicare. My husband, who is 70 years old, just had coronary bypass surgery that was performed by a robot and he was home in 3 days. Do you think Blue Cross would have approved this type of advanced surgery. We love our government-run-medicalplan. America wake up.

I am a registered nurse and pts. that are admitted to hospitals are asked if they have a living will. If they don’t have one the hospital gives them the opportunity to express their wishes at that time if they want a living will will be prepared them. Everything is explined to them and their wishes will be followed. They can say yes or no the choice is left up to them. This is nothing new.

They prefer blind loyalty like the 64 million that fell for hope and change.
Posted by: max
right, republicans should have been re-elected for the fine job they did over 8 years….
just ignore your lying eyes

Sarah, or Rush, Newt haven’t had an original thought in their head, like ………ever! At least Obama can think. It’s a new concept, Sarah.
Posted by: Be Real | Aug 9, 2009 2:02:09 PM
Obama can think???? If his teleprompter tells him to say something other then what he knows to be true, he reads the prompter. If the prompter fails, he stands there like a complete bumbling idiot. Dontcha think it’s time you start apologizing and stop defending, there will come a time that even you yourself realize that you’re an idiot!

Americans, Obama love you work with him and america will be eaven greater, when your people is healty your country is wealty…
from canada

Palin and Betsy McCaughey are evidently wildly distorting the facts and making up scare stories. They substitute fear mongering for rational discussion. On the other hand, very serious questions about the reform plans remain.
1. Why is the House committees’ bill ambiguous and open to interpretations? A final bill MUST set very clear limits to what can be discussed in advance care planning sessions, and eliminate the ambiguous language of the current bill.
2. The President specifically mentioned cuts in the Medicare and Medicaid budgets (dozens of billions per year) as part of the financing of the reform costs. Medicare is notoriously underfunded as is. There is no way to mandate huge cuts in its funding without lowering the level of services it supports. This is unacceptable.
Unfortunately, it seems that both sides in this debate are much better at engaging in hoodwinking propaganda than at rationally discussing these issues. Seniors have reasons to be worried, but some politicians’ lies and fear-mongering won’t advance their cause.

also republicans need to stop worrying about themselves. See they don’t want this bill to pass because they have great health insurance. But we need to think about the people who don’t have anything! It isn’t fair for them. So while republicans are stalling to get this thing passed people who don’t have health insurance are suffering. It isn’t right.

Spinning another web of lies. For those of us that actually take the time to discover and learn about healthcare reform, and for those of us that actually know people that have universal healthcare and benefit from it,these people spouting this crap look like lunatics. Some of us actually want to catch up with the rest of the world. Healthcare for the republicans is about money. Corporate money. Period. Our only hope is that somewhere, someone holds these people responsible for all the misinformation and lies they spew.

Go Sarah! Dems on the run! When Sarah runs in 2012, she won’t be afraid to call out Obama on his birth certificate. When he doesn’t show it, he’s going to look like a fool.

There aren’t a whole lot of things that the government does right in the first place…more government begets more government. This health care thing will increase the size of government even more than it is today. I don’t care if you are a repub or democrat, if you don’t stop the growth of government it will eclipse the private sector in size. When government is the biggest employer in this country we will lose more than our freedom, we will lose our prosperity. Both sides need to wake up an realize we can’t let this growth continue to consume our national wealth.

Palin gave her son Trig a thumbs down-not Obama, she put her birth and son’s life (along with her other offspring)on the high wire while she sought political limelight and prestige- Palin needs to come clean about how she caused her son’s disorder and she also needs to start taking care of all of her kids…before “Obama” has to…she has no excuse now that she quit…

Sarah Palin is a flat out liar, along with the rest of this Republican group. They are deliberately falsifying what has been written in the bill and trying further to deceive their gullible followers. There can be absolutely no compromise with such people until they are willing seriously to study the facts, realize the enormous problems and suffering of a large number of our fellow citizens, and then participate in a serious fashion in debate. As it is, they come across as pathetic, frankly stupid, and totally insensitive to others, only interested in their own narrow-minded, ignorant selves.

The sad truth is that those of us without health care have already had the decision to lead productive and healthy lives taken away from us…by health insurers who won’t touch us with a ten foot pole!
I am a single, well-educated(MA)but uninsured and underemployed female who cannot find full-time work due to a chronic, and sometimes devestating, medical condition that cannot be controlled without proper medical treatment. I am doing the best I can (I tutor and teach a few classes), but because of my rare condition, I cannot get, nor afford, private insurance. So I am forced to rely on the clinics and public hospitals when my medical issue flares up and lands me on the floor. Am I less worthy of medical insurance than other people then? I did everything “right” – gave up a social life in high school to keep up my grades, went to the right colleges, studied overseas, started a career in education…etc. We need some kind of safety net.
I am glad that my tax dollars from my “times of plenty” are coming back to me in the form of local public-assistance medicine; I can get my basics, even though it takes roughly six months to even get a doctor’s appointment. God forbid I end up in the hospital though…

Conservatives want their health left “safely” in the hands of executives of the huge insurance industry. The same men (mostly) who’re keeping an eye on their profit margins and their year end bonuses.

I read and re-read the lies and truth from both sides and am disgusted. Most of my incoeme goes for healthcare costs. I believe as one of the senior citizens I have earned the right to have proper healthcare decided upon by my physicians, not be government bureaucrats. I was a productive member of society and was laid off from my job at the age of 76. Does this mean that if I am no longer able to work, I am not deserving — give me a break

Insurance companies already make end of life decisions when they deny claims
for drugs and treatment that could ease pain and prolong life. It happens frequently.
Palin’s interpretation is just plain weird.

There is not a perfect system and there will never be a perfect system. I feel very sorry for the unfortunate that have preexisting conditions and cannot get good coverage or coverage at all. There should be some kind of plan in place for these individuals, but it would be totally idiotic to just give everyone free healthcare including those individuals that have the ability to work and be productive, but choose not to be. Talk about driving up costs. I am a doctor and have worked my butt off to get where I am and do not think for one second that I will let Washington run my business for me. I did not work as hard as I have worked to get where I am to do pro-bono for the rest of my life.

We spent 17% of our GDP on health care in 2008, compared to ~ 10% for every other industrialized country on this planet. That 7% difference is made up entirely of the ‘administrative’ costs of managing our enormous piecemeal health care system. As a physician in this country, many of my decisions are already second guessed or outright denied by the private insurance companies and their hordes of bean counters trying to save a buck. Could you imagine if this country did away with its government run health care plan for the elderly (Medicare) and allowed them to compete in the private healthcare market like everyone else? Very few would be able to get affordable healthcare insurance. Lets stop making millionaires and billionaires out of the executives at the insurance and pharmaceutical companies and put that money back into the healthcare system.

Oregon has a state-run health care plan. It has sent seniors letters saying that their cancer drugs won’t be paid for, but that the state will pay for assisted suicide in case they are interested in that option.
People who think the public plan won’t encourage the helpless to end their lives have been drinking Obama’s kool-aid. Don’t say we didn’t warn you when it starts to taste funny.

Thank God I live in New Zealand, where there is free health care system. I came from the USA and this system here is incredibly easy and takes away all the fear of not being insured. Doctors spend valuable TIME with their patients, and you are not herded into little cubicles for quick consultation and a big bill. Wow that archaic system in the US with the scavengers of insurance companies sucking the life out of people in need of services is pitiful! Scare tactics and the ignorant citizens sucker for it! Shame on the greedy middlemen and politicians who have great coverage themselves…

I also read recently and now realize the ultimate scam…the medical insurers make huge profits off their policy-holders during their youth, and then when people start to break down in older age, they pass them off to the government (Medicaid) so the private insurers are off the hook!

I am so dissapointed with this country called the US,ignorant people like sarah palin opens their mouth to say thing they have no clue about,people listen.The Gop knows that the new health care plan will work for the poor, but guess what, the insurance lobbiest got them in their pockets that why they are against the Obama plan.

So, you wish for an alternative solution? well here one is:
Two words–market forces. Getting them into the healthcare system is what will fix the high costs. What is needed in the Healthcare industry is competition. The reason prices are so high is because the current system allows doctors to be charged almost whatever they wish, so long as they are in the insurance company’s range. One needs to find a way of getting market forces into the healtchare industry such as allowing people to buy out-of-state insurance, giving tax incentives to insurance companies and doctors who charge less, drastically raising the bar with regard to being able to file lawsuits and limiting the settlements, as one reason prices get so high as the doctors and insurance companies brace themselves for such lawsuits–usually from slime balls who want to milk every cent possible, not realizing that they are hurting everyone in the process.
At the same time, government aid programs would be gradually scrapped, thus forcing the entire healthcare industry to have to compete for the best care at the lowest price.
As for all of you who call Sarah Palin stupid, she is a genius compared with Joe Biden. “We need to spend more to avoid bankruptcy,” that is the dumbest thing I’ve heard anyone say, even worse than when someone called me a Communist because I supported capitalism, and given that I’m a history major, that is a hard ‘award’ to win.

speaking as a democrat, this health bill is a mess…
It needs to be shut down in its present form. A blind person can see that this billis not understood , even by our elected oficials. so why pass a health care bill like this…But maybe they do understand it(I see they are not going to be covered by it.) hmmm wonder why???if it is so good?? Do you wonder?
The only way you will ever have a hhealth care plan that our country can afford, is to figure a way to stop the increasing costs of Hospitial, Doctors, Insurance Companies ad Pharma companies. Those cost will have to be contained first. Congress should set up a nom partisionboard to study and make reccimmendations.
Biggan 1158

Instead of ripping apart everything that Obama suggests, why can’t Palin come up with something positive? This health care program will never pass unless both the republicans and democrats work together. Palin has no solutions to any problems–she can only criticize and parrot back the opinions of Rush Limbaugh. Both of them are doing everything they can to see that this President fails–in early days, their actions would be seen as treason, as their intent is to destroy our Country. Sarah Palin has no desire to do what is best for the USA–she quit her job as Governor when she realized that she was in way over her head–she cannot speak logically–she has no original ideas–and her idea of what the Governor of Alaska or the Vice President was the same: give autographs, set up photo shoots, keep getting your picture in the news, act as a pit bull and rip into anyone who has an idea that might make sense, but above all lead the life of a CELEBRITY. Show me the Money is the cry of this cheerleader who has never grown up.

Who paid for Bristol’s birth and the ongoing healthcare of Bristol and her baby? Bristol certainly does not work to afford it. She is just a kid herself. Palin sits it a very glass house to be throwing those stones! Were Bristol’s mother not the Governor who got the lucky break of being attractive and selected to run with McCain ( she never would have been chosen if she were ugly. That is a fact. There was no track-record of anything – academic or professional ) Bristol would be on public assistance. I am in healthcare and see healthcare deprivation every day! In fact, PATIENTS ALREADY HAVE THEIR FATES DECIDED BY INSURANCE EXECUTIVES! Insurance dictates how physicians practice medicine. If you are sick, your insurance approves the least expensive drugs, not necessarily the ones with the greatest benefits, insurance companies deny claims and procedures ALL THE TIME! If you are old, poor or have dim prospects INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT IN BUSINESS TO PERFORM MIRACLES! Palin complaints of a new system in that care may be restricted… JUST LIKE IT IS WITH PRIVATE INSURANCE! Insurance companies are NOBODY’s friend! They are a very lucrative business! Elderly and the sick do not have the stamina to figure out the quagmire of BS! People pay hundreds and hundred a month for premiums and STILL get denied or lesser drug or have to spend all their saving to get the care they want! No doubt the new plan has flaws, but at least they are trying to give everyone a shot at treatment. If you have the money.. you can still buy whatever care you want? The reality is that there are provisions that people SHOULD consider their end of life costs. There are incredibly expensive treatments being given to cases that are not salvageable. To be kind, Palin is very naive. For her to make such extreme hysterical statements to scare people shows her lack of maturity and her irresponsibility as a leader. Were it not for an extremely lucky break or two, assisted healthcare would be her fate and really… don’t Alaska’s taxpayers subsidize her care? 2 years as governor and she is set-up for life! I am a lifetime Republican female who could not believe that McCain selected such a simple intellect. I seek out the opposing opinions and thoughts. I consider myself a Republican, however, I vote intelligence over party blather. That she finds these extraordinarily complex economic and security issues to be so simplistic and boiled down to trite party blather… is unnerving. The public and SHE need to tap into the reality that she has neither education nor experience that qualifies her for any of these topics. Until last August, she had rarely left her state or zip code. Republicans… PLEASE… find yourselves some intelligent minds with rigorous experience!

Since Ms. Palin is interjecting Trig into the healthcare debate, I have a few questions to ask her:
From what source does she and her family receive health care coverage? (Probably from the citizens of Alaska)
After her retirement, can she continue to receive health coverage from the State of Alaska?
If not, will her new private insurance company cover Trig, or assert limited liability due to “preexisting condition.”
Lastly, how much will her private insurance premiums cost per month? Does
this separate her from the true working class Joes from whom she seeks support?

This whole health care debate could be settled rapidly. If it is so good, Congress, their families and aides should be on the same plan. Dissolve Congress’s health care plan and have them join the people they serve.

so palin says the government will decide who will receive care. who does it now? why,the insurance companies,of course,so they can pay their ceo’s millions in premiums that should be used for health care. the hmo’s keeping denying health treatments your own doctor says you need.guess they’re hoping you die before they have to pay for those health treaments

The media should leave Sarah’s children alone. She can shamelessly exploit them all by herself. When not being cared for by someone else they make great props.

Socialized plans is a sick way to control People….. VERY SICK …..
Posted by: Mark
so why do so many ‘conservatives’ and ‘christians’ tell women what to do about their reproductive health?
why do all those conservative and christian socialists, want to maintain control over women’s rights?
if it’s all about individual choice for your own care, why does that choice not include women?

Posted by: Stephen: ‘market forces’
cool…. lets let the oil speculators raise oil prices to a million bucks a barrel… lets see how America likes them forces…

Does Sarah not realize that the ignorance in her comments will come back to haunt her? If she has any further political ambitions AT ALL, she’d be a lot smarter to just do photo-ops and keep her mouth SHUT unless the comments are APPROVED by someone with a brain!

Hey Pat
Of the 13,458 pages of the tax code I’m pretty sure there is a sizable number of tax breaks for the Healthcare Industry put there courtesy of their highly paid lobbyists.
The keys of freedom for millions are already in the hands of unelected regulators. They are called insurance executives.
Are you making some sort of salient point by reminding everyone of how Bush and “Heck of a job” Brownie turned FEMA from being a fairly effective agency into a “disaster” in it’s own right.

The best antidote to “socialism” would of course be to have voting population that was educated enough to know that depending on others for the things we/you need— tends to lead to others -controlling YOU. Health care in this country is already such a disaster, nothing the government could do now would make it much worse. I think some people know the meaning to so few words that when certain inflammatory types start throwing around words like “socialism” they go nuts. WAKE UP— if you did not won’t to go down this path– you shouldn’t have waiting this long to tell anyone. People seem more than happy to let insurance companies dictate the price and the coverage for their so-called medical coverage– but heaven help us if the government ties to do anything to control private corporation’s profits. Frankly, I hate it when the government gets involved in anything. But–just who’s fault it that?
People in this country are so fat,dumb and lazy (and unhealthy) that they expect someone to hand them everything on a f..king silver platter. Then when someone like this moron from Alaska starts making stupid comments– they raise up and get angry over idiotic falsehoods– Get off Obama’s case. Granted: he might be wrong, his plan might be misguided, his plan might be misapplied—but it is not EVIL. It is merely making the best of a BAD situation. So wake up and realize that the world changed about 40 years ago while most of you were listening to politicians tell you that nothing was your fault–noting is your fault–that you can have the American Dream while someone else pays for it. Well. folks that someone=== is now this generation.
There are (at least) two things broken in this country–health care and education. Obama may have chosen the wrong one to fix first.

Domino: You are listening to the likes of Limbaugh,Hannity, and Beck and the lobbyists and insurance companies. No one want to end you life or anyone else. Get the real facts before you make stupid statements. How about letting the people at the meetins speak and maybe you will learn something. Oh, I forgot,,,,,that is not want the above want you to do.

talmag, Have you read the health Reform bill? Well I have, I don’t blindly take anyones word for anything and the facts are if you take time to read it that healthcare will be rationed under this plan.This is a right or wrong bill and I see it as wrong for my country.

And care isn’t already being rationed by insurance companies? I guess it’s okay when it’s done in the name of a for-profit company, huh?
Palin (reasonably enough) asks the media to leave her kids out of the discussion – but then uses Trig as a propaganda item on her own? Really.

I would strongly disagree with the yoBamma koolaide drinkers here however I dont want to get turned in by the socialists workers party of the Messiah, for disention. Didnt Hitler youth turn in their friends and family for disagreeing with meinfuher?

Palin’s remarks simply make no sense. Try to get insurance for a pre-existing condition. You cannot, or you sacrifice quality of life simply to pay for the premiums With no insurance where do you go? You suffer, and you die an early death.

What does Palin know????? She couldn’t even finish her term as govenor and I don’t think she has the right to criticize anyone else.
As far as leaving her family alone, she is the one who thrust them in front of us and then preached on abstinence – while her daughter was pregnant (and just as Palin had been).

Why are you attacking Palin? All you have to do is read the bill she didn’t have anything to do with the write up of the bill,. The ones that are for this bill obviously have not bothered to read it for themselves if they did read it they would have to come to the same conclusions as the Majority of Americans have found by reading. I’am a free thinking individual and love my country but diagree with Obama’s healthcare reform bill in which is my right under the First Amendment.

Its funny when people bring up things liek Social Security as “proof” of how bad the government is at managing anything. In fact Social Security is one of the best managed finanial systems in the world from a technical perspective. Less than 2% of total Social Security collections goes to administration, compared to roughtly 10% to 30% for private investment and insurance funds. SS is actually an example of the advantages of a large government run system, where economies of scale and other forms of stream lining can significantly reduce costs. And Social Secueity has a track record better than any private requirement company on paying benefits on time and correctly and on the “security” of the payments.
Does it have its problems? Yes, but those problems are politically created, by politicians raiding the SS fund to pay for other things. As far as the running of the program itself, its one of the most successful and best managed large programs of any kind ever run in human history, and if a government insurance plan for healthcare could be half as effective it would be an enormous benefit to this country and future generations.

The death panel notion has gotten a life of it’s own. It’s easy for someone to write something down on paper that’s cleverly written to sound like something doesn’t exist, or vice versa. Eventually it’ll be re-read and re-interpreted to suit someone’s view of things. I think the death panel idea is alive and well. Sarah Palin is reading what she see’s in it, the same way someone with opposite views, in the near future, will read into it what he/she believe believes is right.

Domins: ABC news did a fact check and guess what? There is no “death panel” clause in the bill. They also indicated nothing has been finalized…you just dont want health care reform nor do you like Obama. That’s fine your are entited to your opinion but do the work and get the facts correct before you point a finger.

tag, End of life provision in the 1,018 page healthcare reform that has been proposed. As far as liking Obama you are right I do not like him and I don’t kid myself that he would like me. I don’t like any man in history or present that would pull this crap on us. Maybe you should do your homework. start with history then and now.

The GOP will run like the wind from these crazy element, or they’ll pay for it next election cycle- they devolve further into
lunacy with each passing week.
Black is white, up = down-
Let’s just sit back and watch ‘em self- destruct!
Who’s making the popcorn? Better than QVC!

OJMO,Where did you get the figures that 46 million Americans have no health insurance?Here’s what I know 12 to 20 million of them are illegals, Approx 20 million don’t want insurance that leaves about 6 million or so, Mainly the medical services American citizens will have to go without our for the benefit of illegal immigrants. Mandate for end of life counceling voluntary? If it was voluntary it would not have to be in the bill., come on now you know where thats going. And the healthcare reform they are proposing is socialism actually worse. Phrma was onboard right off the bat on this proposed bill hell that should of sounded the alarm immediately.

Can anyone understand in the proposed healthcare reform bill as to the mandate-requirement that women to have mammlograms. What I need is further expansion on this mandate on to how they are proposing to get this done and if women resist this requirement what is to happen will the gov send out some kind of squad to our home to be forced into it or what?

AS a member of the government who receives healthcare paid for by the tax payers, I simply wanted to take a moment to say “thanks, suckers!” Keep debating what the corporations and political types tell you to.

SARAH PALIN REMARKS SIMPLY MAKES NO SENSE WHEN SHE WAS ASKING MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA TO KEEP HER CHILDREN OUT OF THE PUBLIC DEBATE. SARAH YOU KEEP PUTING YOU KIDS IN THE PUBLIC.KEEP THEM HOME! I KNOW YOU NEED A JOB AND THATS WHY YOU BE DRAGING YOUR KIDS AROUND THE WORLD WITH YOU . GET A REAL JOB

NOW SARAH PALIN IS NOT THE ALASKA GOV. ANYMORE!SHE HAVE NO JOB SO SHE USE THE MEDIA TO STAY IN THE SPOT LIGHT SO SHE CAN KEEP MAKING THING UP ;PALIN IS NOT A VOICE FOR THE MOST PRECIOUS MEMBERS OF OUR SOCIETY, OUR CHILDREN AND OUR SENIOR. P.S SARAH PALIN YOU NEED A REAL 9-5 JOB ASK OBAMA TO LEND YOU SOME MONEY!HA HA HA HA

there’s no debating with these stupid people. it’s like trying to reason with a block of wood.

As a person who has lived in communism (pardon, actually was socialism thriving towards communism) I am appauled how gulible and uninformed the majority of americans are…The universal system in the countries that have it is a system of bribes and nepotism. There is no fairness in it as there is no fairness in the social assistance plans that the young and strong are taking advantage of (=promoting laziness and irresponsibility) when the old and frail have their benefits cut. What is the scariest of all is that Europe is moving rampantly towards capitalism while US is moving rampantly towards socialism and then, my friends you will realize quickly the missinformation and manipulation that is the canvas of so many socialist countries, but it will be too late as it was with so many countries that wanted to divert from it and it was not possible. I think the Russians won the Cold War because americans are hating USA while Russians love their Mother Russia! The victory was in the manipulation of the mind which occured in the americans and not in the Russians! Cheers!

panterutza
Many of us do know and we are trying not to be swept into socialism and beyond. Many of us are trying to sound the alert. Our elders in the front lines are taking all the flack for speaking up against it, hopefully others will realize before its to late and give a hand before this monster gets in motion.. I love my country and am exercising my right under the First Amendment, “Freedom of Speech.

From Palin – what else did you expect? It is extremely unfortunate as the comments are further polarizing our nation, but this is what ill informed want-to-bees do. They care nothing about truth yet hide behind the cloak of christianity – giving real christians a bad name.
Palin has a taste of the big times and she will do absolutely anything to capitalize on her new fame, but let her keep talking. Many people I know who thought she was about something have taken a second, third and forth look and have come to the conclusion that she is all about nothing. A pretty package with nothing of worth inside. Each time she opens mouth she inserts foot. You go girl!
If the media were at all smart, they would honor her wish and keep her out the limelight. That’s what she wanted -so she said. She does not add anything positive to the debate so why give her the coverage? That is a NO BRAINER! Wink! Wink!

for all of you socialism people out there hear me out : there is no death panel provision in this bill . the goverment will not take over the health care, nor is there any plan to phase out private health care.there is a lots of stupid people out there thats need learn how to read and lisen! the new reform health care will “help” us not hurt us . i voted for obama and i will stick with him to the end!obama is doing a good job as a president so americans don;t fall for the fear mongering and scare tactics.

I meant to add I do care for you all no matter who you support.

“…but pictures of government bureaucrats forcing euthanasia upon seniors — and, now, children with Down syndrome — because they’re not productive members of society are not part of any reasonable debate on the facts of the matter.”
Well, it should be. If I have to watch one more decrepit Memaw dribble soup down her whiskery chin I’m gonna flip my wig. I paid for that plate and wrinkled pensioners is what’s ruining my full Steak Kountry Buffet experience. Wut wut!!!!

Charlotte, Do you think we should serve our seniors up on a platter so you can be insured. there are many insurance companies here in USA go to them like most of Americans have been doing for many years.

Your all losing track of the real issue, when gov. controls your health care they control you and your family. Wake up, it’s about freedom and we are slowly losing it piece by piece. Socialism is rearing its ugly head and we are counting pennies.

The current USA medical system is dictated by insurance companies, following formulas and deciding who does & does not received medical care. The insurance companies should be totally out of the medical care system -until then we are all spending money just to keep those companies in business and not taking care of people who require medical aid.

I have insurance at a cost of over $10 thousand a year, I only made $30 thousand, My premium shot up after I turned 60 & have a few pre-existing conditions

Israel supports Obama because it is ungodly if people doesn’t want to help other people
Help sick , poor and older people

I applaud President Obama for wanting to try to fix the health care problems.If we americans would begin to eat right,educate the public about the foods that we should eat,there would not be so many health issues. Most of what we eat and drink are contaminated and government needs to do something about that.
To him who is given much, much is required, and how did most of you get what you do have? Proably, from others in need now. There will soon come a time when you won’t be able to buy or sell. I am poor, but if it takes a little more from my pay check to help someone else in need, I am willing to do so. You are crying “Socialism”, but it is really called christianity. It is now time to practice what you have been preaching for years.
Let’s work with our President and not trying to fight against what he promised to do before election, to fix health care.
If this country was founded on christian principles then let us try to initiate a system of health care that will meet the needs all of people. You were Not born to live forever and there is an appointed time to die.
Let us show other countries how charitable and live up to our christian faith.

THERE ARE MANY OF RICH PEOPLE OUT THERE THATS DON’T WON;T THIS NEW HEALTH CARE BILL TO PASS BECAUSES THE RICH WILL BE PAYING MORE TAXES !IT ABOUT TIME FOR THE RICH PEOPLE TAXES TO GO UP ! BEING POOR OR MIDDLE CLASS WE BEEN PAYING TAXES FOR YEARS ! SO YES I AM FOR THIS NEW HEALTH CARE REFORM THE AMERICANS I KNOW AND LOVE WILL LIKE THIS BILL TO PASS T00.

for the person saying that it’s christianity to provide for others or share the wealth…Jesus said”TEACH A MAN TO FISH AND HE WILL EAT FOR A LIFETIME..FEED HIM AND HE EATS TODAY” so we need to teach these people how to work to make their own way in this country.

And who wrote the healthreform bill? APOLLO, Who is APOLLO? Read your history people, Obama’s plan is right out of Saul Ulinsky’s book. APOLLO, SEIU, ACORN, look at the background of his CZARS, not nice people, read and educate yourself if you don’t want to believe the news. It is in black and white.

Money is the root of all evil. Get rid of this and most issues would be solved. Human greed trumps anything good that can come along. But I acknowledge that greed is an innate part of human nature and we must learn to work with it effectively. Would studying the healthcare system of another nation for example “Sweden”? be an admission that the USA is NOT indeed the greatest nation on earth and that we can learn from another country? Would it be so horrible to not be the “Best”. What is the “Best” anyway? How do we define being the “Best”? I would say being the best we can be is a nation of healthy, educated folks who are not hungry with a lower rate of crime. Utopian and unrealistic one might think? Not so much. Look at Scandinavia. Leaders who proclaim their country to be the greatest on earth are dangerous. Adolf Hitler thought Aryans and Germans were the “Master Race”. Do we ever want to mirror any of those habits? Hopefully not. Let’s admit we are not the supreme beings on this planet and adopt the attitude, “Maybe we ought to look at the way it is done over there – it appears to work and the folks are happy.” Sounds as if Pres. Obama wants everyone to start reducing the greed and looking out for their neighbor. Not such a bad goal really. These are basic principles of most religions; Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Ming and yes…Islam.

Pink, the majority of American people are not socialist, It is an Americans duty to protect our Constitution and Obama and his weasel democratic congress is threatning that. Remember they started this.

William Robinson,
I believe Sarah’s son’s name is Trig.

I think I’m more concerned with the other part of the bill, wherein the law will make it ok for social workers to just enter your home, under the guise of helping to educate you about raising your kids. But, don’t worry, they’re only being paid to do it in the poorer neighborhoods and those neighborhoods wherein abuse has already been identified. So, if your neighbor down the street had a run in with them, your bootie could get caught up in it, because they might just make a visit to your door, uninvited. Of course, you could always refuse their services…but, have you ever refused entry into your home by a social worker? Might as well call in the PD and court systems when soon as you do. That’s a part, due to the wording, that could, literally and legally, put a lot of kids into child protective service’s custody. Whereas, previously, they needed a reason, legally, to come to your home, if that bill passes (even though it’s a voluntary program, kind of like taxes,) they are legally required to go to your home and offer the services. Isn’t that nice of them? Can you imagine what would happen if you were working on your home at the time they showed up, and it wasn’t up to what they considered par? You know, maybe you were putting in a new floor, or something like that? How about if your son, little Johnny, came to the door all dirty, because he was out playing in the back yard, with his friends. Boy, could that be twisted around, eh? And, as quick as social workers are to jump, can you imagine not having one bill of right put in place (such as amendment 4) to prevent this? It would make it legal for them to take your kids, just because they visited you at the wrong time. Isn’t that cool? lol What other pretty little secrets are hidden in this bill?

joe wilson and sarah palin need to come up with a better plan to help the president and democratic with this health care reform bill.not with outburst and lies with the death panel!republican here is your opportunity to help with this problem! thank you

First,the Health Reform Bill was not intended to be read and clearly understood, at least not by the average citizen Secondly, an artificial sense of urgency has been created to get the bill pushed & rushed through. Thirdly, this bill is being implemented using exactly the same devious methods as those used to underhandedly pass the FEDERAL RESERVE BILL in 1913! It was also passed during a holiday when everyone was pre-occupied with holiday festivities. Woodrow Wilson realized his folly too late…when will we realize ours? REGARDLESS of how the Bill is worded (to appease any opposition), it will be later re-amendeded after it has been ratified, to suit the agenda of those from whom Obama receives his directives. This ‘Healthcare Plan’ has nothing at all to do with the ‘health’ of the people, or caring for the sick and elderly.