Sebelius: ‘Death Panels’ Talk Is “Horrific”

“I think it’s really horrific that some opponents of the health reform bill have used painful personal moments to scare people about what is in the bill,” Sebelius told guest host Jake Tapper on ABC’s “This Week.”
Uh, hasn’t the President been repeatedly using his recently deceased grandmother as a prop to scare us INTO his health plan?
I think it would be helpful if our HHS actually read the proposed bills and then discussed them on their individual merits rather than just trying to sling around the Administration’s propaganda that, Oh so ironically, is less substantive than Sarah Palin’s!
Sarah Palin makes me cringe, but on this issue she won, get over it. The supposed language that was “never in the bill” is now out of the bill according to the press.

Obama says over and over, “I support/don’t support (insert provision here).” Nothing he says changes what’s in the bill. If you want to know what they’re actually proposing, you HAVE to read the bill. Even his most recent statement about dropping the public option–until I see it in the bill, I won’t believe it.
As for Sebelius, she’s being intellectually dishonest. Of course the bill doesn’t say there will be “death panels.” But what it DOES say leads one to the conclusion that something like death panels will be necessary if the bill is to meet its cost reduction goals.

Hatch evaded it with doublespeak, of course, though he did have the deer in the headlights look there for a second.
Posted by: Danny
that’s all that remains of the Republican Party…. unwillingness to answer a direct question with substance… lots of loudness, indignation that they lost the election.. but on issues………. n o t h i n g ………….
same thing happened on the “hardball’ show…. they can’t even make up stuff that sounds good any more…

whaaaat Republicans cant even lie and make stuff up right anymore?

The idea of physicians being compensated to discuss end of life issues is disturbing. These discussions will also be part of the physician’s performance ratings. Sebelius claims it’s the humane thing to do but the intrusiveness is outrageous to me.

As far as I can see Republicans are the biggest enemies that the American people have. All they do is protect special interests to the detriment of the American people. They sit around and fabricate outright lies and have been for the last 28 years, since Reagan started in with his lies. At least Nixon admitted that he was wrong, but only at the last minute. Maybe Republicans should just form an agency to represent corporations because that would better explain what their task has been. That way they could get paid above the table!

It’s not clear to me that “death panel” arose out of the provision for end-of-life counseling. I believe it is traceable to sevral utterances by Obama himself, where he spoke of “guidelines” to be prepared by a panel of ethicists (whatever they are) and others concerning when it is or is not appropriate to provide certain care late in life, as in the case of his grandmother. And he plainly told one lady that it might have been preferable to give her mother a painkiller instead of a pacemaker (in which case she’d have died five years ago).

We can’t afford this healthcare reform that is being crammed down our throats by fiscally irresponsible politicians.
• Medicare has a projected unfunded liability (the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and Medicare premiums) over the next 75 years of 32,000,000,000,000.00 (32 Trillion) dollars. Social Security also has an unfunded liability but it is nowhere near as large as the unfunded Medicare liability.
• Currently, Medicare claims about 11 percent of federal nonentitlement tax dollars.
• By 2020, Medicare deficits will claim one in every five federal tax dollars that are not already dedicated to Medicare and Social Security.
• This means that in just 13 years the federal government will have to stop doing one in every five things it does today if taxes are to remain at their current level and projected Medicare benefits are paid on behalf of the disabled and the elderly.
• By 2030, the deficits in Medicare will claim one in every three general revenue dollars; by 2050, they will claim one in every two.
In a July 26 letter to the Ranking Republicans on four key committees (Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce, Education and Labor, and Budget), the Director of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), Doug Elmendorf, made it clearer than he ever had before that the bill, in its original July 14 form, would dramatically widen the already large gap between long-term government revenue and spending. Here’s the key paragraph:
“Looking ahead to the decade beyond 2019, CBO tries to evaluate the rate at which the budgetary impact of each of those broad categories would be likely to change over time. The net cost of the coverage provisions would be growing at a rate of more than 8 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; we would anticipate a similar trend in the subsequent decade. The reductions in direct spending would also be larger in the second decade than in the first, and they would represent an increasing share of spending on Medicare over that period; however, they would be much smaller at the end of the 10-year budget window than the cost of the coverage provisions, so they would not be likely to keep pace in dollar terms with the rising cost of the coverage expansion. Revenue from the surcharge on high-income individuals would be growing at about 5 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; that component would continue to grow at a slower rate than the cost of the coverage expansion in the following decade. In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year budget window.”
In other words, CBO expects the spending in the bill would grow at a rate of least 8 percent annually into the indefinite future, while the revenue to pay for it will only grow at about 5 per cent per year. Hence the “substantial increases” in federal budget deficits beyond 2019.
The first things the idiots in DC need to do is get Medicare under control and then address the growing debt of the federal government. For over 60 years the politicians have been spending at a rate which exceeds the revenue the government has collected, we can’t do this in our private lives and the government can’t do it either as the bill will become due and the only out will be the bankruptcy of the United States.

where were all these tea party ‘fiscal hawks’ for the last 8 years…………. s i l e n t

Actually I’m watching Jake on This Week right now and he just asked Orrin Hatch that question. Hatch evaded it with doublespeak, of course, though he did have the deer in the headlights look there for a second.
Posted by: Danny | Aug 16, 2009 11:25:39 AM
***
Yes, he did!! And good on ya to Donna Brazile for bringing up the fact that many Republicans, including Palin, were for this kind of provision before they were against it. The hypocricy never fails to astound me.

As far as I can see Republicans are the biggest enemies that the American people have. All they do is protect special interests to the detriment of the American people. They sit around and fabricate outright lies and have been for the last 28 years, since Reagan started in with his lies. At least Nixon admitted that he was wrong, but only at the last minute. Maybe Republicans should just form an agency to represent corporations because that would better explain what their task has been. That way they could get paid above the table!
Posted by: builder7 | Aug 16, 2009 12:12:56 PM
I don’t think that’s true of all Republicans, but the extremists do seem to be taking over the party. I love a quote by Bruce Bartlett, a veteran of the Reagan and H.W. Bush administrations,now a political independent, about the Republican Party pretending it did nothing wrong over the last eight years. The quote is available at the Political Animal blog by Washington Monthly under the heading “the penance has not been paid” and there’s a very on point part 2 about the deterioration of the media. I encourage everyone to check it out. Here’s a portion of the quote by Bruce Bartlett:
“I believe that political parties should do penance for their mistakes and just losing power is not enough. Part of that involves understanding why those mistakes were made and how to prevent them from happening again. Republicans, however, have done no penance. They just pretend that they did nothing wrong. But until they do penance they don’t deserve any credibility and should be ignored until they do. . . I want Republicans to admit they were wrong about him, accept blame for his mistakes, and take some meaningful action to keep them from happening again.”

“where were all these tea party ‘fiscal hawks’ for the last 8 years……”
The fact that Obama’s deficit in his first year will be four times Bush’s highest one-year deficit tends to awaken a lot of people. In one year he’s amassed greater debt than Bush did in either of his two terms.
A deficit that is 3.5% of GDP is rather routine. A deficit that is over 12% of GDP is astonishingly irresponsible and very threatening to the nation’s futue.

What is Horrific is truth that has been kept from the public for many, many years.

I’ll also point out that many prominent bloggers on the left, including those sponsored by the SEIU, call what insurance companies do “Murder by Spreadsheet”.
Is that horrific as well?

The maudlin Sebelius’ death-panel bleating hardly counts (especially with Oblabla, who was conspicuously absent while his mother was dying, AGAIN trotted out the white contingent of his deceased — and at this point politically-shop-worn — female relations).
What about Sebelius’ both-sides-of-His-mouth weirdness on Oblabla’s readiness to — whatta notta surprise — forego the always-implausible “public option” (while spouting strangely about “everyone”)?
When these flim-flammers talk about “everyone”, it’s pretty clear that what they MEAN is “everybody who has private insurance”, i.e., the relatively well-heeled, health-care-wise.
This double-speak is reminiscent, in some ways, of er Jim Crow: the poor aren’t mentioned because they aren’t actually er you know . . .
All the un-rich have to gain from this “reform” is being FORCED onto Medicaid — with its undiscussed Estate Benefits Recovery (payback, at rates undiscoverable during the recipient’s LIFETIME) provisions that come into play, to the financial detriment of Medicaid recipients’ survivors, AFTER the third-rate “care” has killed off their dearly departed.
Mobsters and mouthpieces. How droll.

PART OF THE NATURE OF A SINGLE PAYER GOV RUN SYSTEM, WHICH THIS WILL WIND UP BEING, WILL INCLUDE “RATIONING.” RATIONING MEANS THAT SOME WILL BE CUT OUT OF THE LOOP – PROBABLY SENIORS. THAT WILL MEAN SOME WILL DIE WITHOUT RECEIVING PROPER MEDICAL ATTENTION. MAYBE “PANELS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE TERM – BUT THE RESULT IS THE SAME – DEATH!!!!!! DUH!!

Is the public option dead?What was really said by Gibbs and Sebelius? If they are really taking this off the table we have just witnessed a titanic seismic event.If they have caved in the Obama Presidency is finished.Who could trust him?

If they are really taking this off the table we have just witnessed a titanic seismic event.
Posted by: Nephron | Aug 16, 2009 5:43:27 PM
If you think that, you haven’t been paying attention to anything but the most superficial and distorted interpretations of the debate and the legislation. Seriously. There were never enough votes for it in the Senate, and Obama has said while he favors the public option, it wasn’t make or break– it was a minor point. I’m disappointed– and the more left wing of the party will be disappointed–but health reform will still pass in some form. It’s disingenuous to claim it as some sort of sign that Obama’s finished. Particularly if you’re a Republican. The Republicans passed the buck — remember the prescription drug benefit that wasn’t paid for? Obama has ALREADY done more for health care reform than the Republicans have by expanding SChip and getting incentives for emr and comparative effectiveness studies into the stimulus bill.

“Is the public option dead?What was really said by Gibbs and Sebelius? If they are really taking this off the table we have just witnessed a titanic seismic event.If they have caved in the Obama Presidency is finished.Who could trust him?”
NObody trusts Him. Who’d trust a prima donna so insecure He wouldn’t put Howard Dean in the cabinet, and instead took hahaha Sebelius?
Dean should have been president — and, except for Democratic saboteur John Kerry, who launched Oblabla, Dean WOULD have been president — in 2008.
Here’s hoping for 2012! Draft Dr. Dean, the people’s choice!

Even with Dean as Health Care honcho in the present, Der Waffler MIGHT have been dissuaded from sallying forth to bleat about avaricious surgeons’ $50,000 foot amputations, and the made-up unnecessary tonsillectomies.
Draft Dean in 2012!

Don’t kid yourself.If the public option dies Obama will have a major disaster on his hands.All of the congressmen who have taken the heat to support this plan will be cut off at the knees; why would they go out on a limb for him if he saws it off? Well, we went for a community organizer and that is what we have.We will be witnessing his political emasculation.

Don’t kid yourself.If the public option dies Obama will have a major disaster on his hands.All of the congressmen who have taken the heat to support this plan will be cut off at the knees; why would they go out on a limb for him if he saws it off? Well, we went for a community organizer and that is what we have.We will be witnessing his political emasculation.
Posted by: Nephron | Aug 16, 2009 11:00:11 PM
***
You’re funny. I disagree. It’s his first year in office– he hasn’t even hit the eight-month-mark yet AND many congressman and senators are not going out on a limb at ALL by supporting the public option. You get that there are congressional districts and some blue states where the public option would be all the rage, right? In addition, the netroots are all set to rally, and overall, Obama’s approval rating is still high, if not as high as he or I would like on health care– so far. If there is no public option, the congress representatives from liberal districts may have angry constituents on their hands but they can still vote for single payer when it comes to the floor. PLUS we don’t know what is going to happen yet. (google “Sebelius mispoke public option”) Obama is still in favor of a public option and it’s still in the House bill, although he doesn’t think it’s make-or-break necessary for health reform, and it isn’t IMO either–although I do still prefer a plan WITH a public option. David Axelrod, said the president remained convinced that a public plan was “the best way to go.” But the nuances of how to develop a nonprofit competitor to private industry had never been “carved in stone.”The Senate Finance Committee is expected to produce a bill that features a nonprofit co-op. In his op-ed today, Krugman covers the argument that with or without the public option, health care reform with universal coverage will be a victory:)

(google “Sebelius mispoke public option”)
Baloney. Sebelius was the Judas goat.
And Dr. Dean has broken with them — watch while the Democratic Wing is reborn, and Obama’s crypto-Mormons assume the lame-duck status they’ve soooo earned.

“A third White House official, via e-mail, said that Sebelius didn’t misspeak. “The media misplayed it,” the third official said.” (The Atlantic, surprise, surprise)
Oh: the media misplayed it. How weird is THAT?
Dr. Dean in 2012. Single Payer or bust. Dump Obama.

Oh, and this ISN’T about politics. Right.
Posted by: Ribbit ribbit | Aug 17, 2009 9:09:10 AM
***
I don’t know if that was in response to my post, or just in general but to me
its about health care reform. However, since we are dealing with politicians, I’m perfectly willing to look at the politics and think about what things mean from that lens, and/or how that part should be played to push back against wingnuts on either side, so that health care reform happens and the people I voted for can continue to do things I’d like them to do– right now that’s health care reform– universal coverage, insurance reform, affordable options for the self-employed and small business owners, cost containment, etc. More equity is more equity. I don’t think I’ve ever pretended I’m for liberty for the wealthy, and let the rest eat cake. And I’ve said a lot of times that I’m more than willing to push back against political claims of people who likely voted for Bush twice and are sore about the election results. Most of the comments on this blog are politically motivated, no?

“How weird, indeed.” (The White House assertion that “the media misplayed it”.)
How to get rid of this clown administration? Is Sebelius going to resign? And what’s-her-name, the “health-care” communications lady who ALSO apparently announced, early on, that Sebelius “misspoke”.

“How weird, indeed.” (The White House assertion that “the media misplayed it”.)
***
I knew that’s how YOU meant it, but you know that’s not how I meant it. LOL. I think the media misplayed it. All along the President has said he supports a public option but that’s not the only way to get health reform done. Right now, the comments of Sebelius and others are being interpreted as “signals” because the play up the drama of the alleged downward spiral of the popularity of health-care reform. Go back and check previous comments by the Prez, Sebelius, Senators and so on. This is NOT new. Not at all. My problem is that sometimes I think reporters do investigative work and know something more than he said, she said– and then it turns out that many of them do not, because hey, that would take some time, some effort beyond twittering each other and doing unpenetrating interviews.
Anyway, off to work.

“This is NOT new. Not at all.”
Riiight. Had the media not “misplayed” it, they’d have explained that ALL of Oblabla’s pronouncements, except when He’s let out without a teleprompter, are designed with wide-open back doors.
The thing for Congress to do is to KILL this pig bill until Obama is — possibly for emptying the Treasury irregularly — out of office, then do Single Payer under the Dean administration.
Looking to mobsters to “reform” this and that wasn’t such a hot idea.

Obama mouthpiece Sebelius posits that “what’s important is choice and competition” — not exactly the flim-flam administration’s approach to tossing a few trillion to the financial (and other) corporations, Cash for Clunkers, etc.
Only when it comes to “health care reform” — medical (and dental, and vision) care being a matter of life and death for EVERYone, including those without the wherewithal TO “compete” or the sophistication to make (illusory) “choices” in the matter — is “competition” suddenly a value for the Obama administration.
Draft Dr. Dean, while there’s still some remnant of democratic principle attached to the hijacked Democratic Party.
What DAY of this week will Sebelius resign?

“I’m annoyed about the lack of transparency on the Pharma deal.”
Oh: “lack of transparency”?! :^)
He didn’t even tell the Congress He was er selling out a zillion Medicare recipients. He pushed the “public option” — under the ridiculous slogan of “keeping the insurance companies honest”: KEEPING them “honest” hohoho — as a way of coopting overwhelming public demand FOR Single Payer, now has scuttled it.
He’s a mobster and a charlatan. I don’t give a hoot WHAT color He is.
As for “mixed ancestry”, most people who can actually reproduce DO have “mixed ancestry”.

Why is he on vacation while the most important policy initiative of his presidency is going down the drain?He is supposed to be a leader? As Gertrude said,there is no there there.

Looks like the U.S. Seasoned Citizen did not want to go the way of Roe v Wade and unborn children.

DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS! DEATH PANELS!
What could possibly be the explanation for the American people’s positive genius for falling for the most blatant and obvious propaganda? I have a possible theory if you’re interested in hearing it….
We’re idiots.
That could be the only explanation. What other reason could there possibly be? Any takers?
When a contemptible half-wit like Sarah Palin “twits” (an appropriate word) about “death panels” and the next moment it is a serious part on the national conversation – there is really something seriously wrong.
Here is (Excuse me, I meant “was”) a golden opportunity for real reform and the idiotic Americans are screaming about socialism. Is it any wonder that we are the laughingstock of the industrialized world?

More takers, Tom, in the form of Physicians for Reform. Note the rationale for the state’s behavior offered by Drs. Shaffer and Saha. By simply forgetting the Hippocratic Oath they swore to “first, do no harm,” they have traded morality for utilitarianism.
Not coincidentally that’s also something totalitarians do, and why the last group of medical guys who slid down this slope ended up answering for it in the dock at Nuremberg. The Nazis started with the “mercy killing” of defective children, the sick, the mentally ill, etc. They didn’t see any problem in deciding who was more “worthy” of living and consuming precious resources. And once you cross that line anything is possible– even a Holocaust.
An idiot is one who refuses to learn from history. It may be a cliche, but ignorance is still no excuse.
_____________________________
From Physicians for Reform:
[Re: Barbara Wagner] In stunned disbelief you may ask, “How can this be? This happens in Europe. I’ve heard stories of Britain’s National Health Service delaying intervention until the patient dies or reports of physician-assisted suicide in the Netherlands. But in America?”
The answer is simple. Oregon state officials controlled the process of healthcare decision-making—not Barbara and her physician…To Oregon, Barbara was no longer a patient; she had become a “negative economic unit.”
In 1994 Barbara’s state established the Oregon Health Plan to give its working poor access to basic healthcare while limiting costs by “prioritizing care.” In 1997 Oregon legalized physician-assisted suicide to offer “death with dignity” to patients who chose to die without further medical treatment. In the end, the State secured the power to ration healthcare in order to control its financial risk, even if that meant replacing a patient’s chance to live with the choice of how to die.
When queried about withholding Barbara’s treatment, Dr. Walter Shaffer, a spokesman for Oregon’s Division of Medical Assistance Programs, explained the policy this way, “We can’t cover everything for everyone. Taxpayer dollars are limited for publicly funded programs. We try to come up with policies that provide the most good for the most people.” Dr. Som Saha, chairman of the commission that sets policy for the Oregon Health Plan, echoed Shaffer, “If we invest thousands and thousands of dollars in one person’s days to weeks, we are taking away those dollars from someone [else].”
Twice Barbara appealed the ruling. Twice Oregon denied her treatment.
Government compassion sounds so noble when first introduced. In fact, this well-intentioned motive fueled the creation of the State-sponsored health plan that now denied Barbara’s treatment. As “we the people” become more and more reliant on the government, inch by precious inch, liberty slips away. Citizens become powerless in dependency. Seduced by sweet words of compassion, the welfare of the State silently usurps the wellbeing of the individual citizen. Secure in the belief that government will care for them, many Americans slumber in complacency until one day, “we the people” awake to find liberty lost.