By Caitlin Taylor

Aug 5, 2009 8:16am

The Note: Mob Rules: Dems Build Up Opponents to Tear Them Down

By RICK KLEIN Here’s something fishy to flag: The campaign is back. It’s not just that the Clintons are everywhere again — with the former president making the kind of triumphant return Wednesday morning upon which reputations are remade. It’s that the tone and the tactics that got President Obama elected are back. The war rooms have moved to Washington now, but the players and the playbook remain the same. Misperceptions and misstatements are getting the full oppo pushback. The White House and its allies went from downplaying the disruptions at town-hall meetings to spreading the word about them. The Democrats’ play here is to get the public to choose sides — and to make that other side stand for the full range of critics, everyone from birthers and racists to health-care skeptics and budget hawks. Enemies can be powerful things. New Wednesday from the DNC: An aggressive new Web video (that might become a one-minute national cable ad, a Democratic official says) that attacks “the right wing extremist Republican base” and accuses GOP leaders of having “called out the mob.” “Now, desperate Republicans and their well-funded allies are organizing angry mobs — just like they did during the election,” the ad says. “Their goal? Destroy President Obama and stop the change Americans voted for overwhelmingly in November.” “This mob activity is straight from the playbook of high level Republican political operatives. . . . They have no plan for moving our country forward, so they've called out the mob.” Says DNC spokesman Brad Woodhouse: “These acts of mob rule are a direct result of and are being encouraged by Republican leaders who have vowed to ‘break’ the President for political gain and who have said that they hope that the President fails. This is the very type of anger and extremism that cost Republicans dearly in 2008 – and it is bound to backfire again.” Among the concerns here if this national conversation turns into a national shouting match: The White House and its allies can be plenty loud, but all we’ll hear may be the shouting. But they will be heard — and the team that made Obama president likes its chances: “The political team that got him elected is returning to the online world of grass-roots activism in an attempt to reclaim control of the debate,” Ceci Connolly reports in The Washington Post. “The new engagement by the White House comes at a time when Democratic lawmakers are fielding attacks on talk radio, in cyberspace and at appearances in their home districts.” Democratic consultant Steve McMahon: “They got caught up in the act of governing, and what health-care reform needs right now is the kind of campaign that only President Obama and his team can deliver.” Campaigns crave opponents. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., after Tuesday’s White House meeting: “In spite of the loud, shrill voices trying to interrupt town hall meetings and just throwing a monkey wrench into everything, we’re going to continue to be positive and work hard,” said Reid, per ABC’s Sunlen Miller. Yet all opponents don’t stand for all things.ABC’s Jake Tapper: “While offensive and even racist posters and protestors have shown up at too many of these town halls, it's not clear that they represent the mainstream of those who have organized to exercise their First Amendment right to speak any more so than the liberal protestors who compared President Bush to a Nazi represented mainstream liberal thought, or even the mainstream of anti-war protestors at any given event.” “It's the politics of conflation, aimed at winning back moderate voters who are wary of debt-spiraling changes to health care — but also may not want to be in league with angry right-wingers,” Politico’s Jonathan Martin writes. “How this directly applies to health care is uncertain, though. The challenge for Democrats is that the tactic they're trying now would be a heck of a lot easier in an election year that's fought over candidates not issues.” More from the front lines: “The White House and its allies are developing a clearinghouse website to debunk rumors and myths — similar to the FightTheSmears.com site used during the campaign,” Politico’s Carrie Budoff Brown reports. “They plan to use more video, Twitter, e-mail lists and other new media tools to ‘combat the right-wing noise machine’ and dedicate new resources to rapid response on health care, according to a White House official.” “Health care reform is so important that not only does the White House think it justifies Astrot… er, grass-roots coordination, but it also wants bad-thought ideas sent to the government,” Amanda Carpenter writes in her Washington Times “Hot Button” column. “The White House has issued a statement asking people to report those spreading ‘fishy’ information about health care reform on the Internet.” It couldn’t be that the politics of the past should have been left in the past? “Does President Obama care more about passing health-care reform that truly gets costs under control, or more about getting reelected? Does he care more about getting the nation's fiscal house in order, or more about getting reelected?” Ruth Marcus writes in her Washington Post column. “Right now, the evidence points to getting reelected. Exhibit A came at Monday's White House briefing: 45 minutes of press secretary Robert Gibbs restating the president's ‘clear commitment in the clearest terms possible, that he's not raising taxes on those who make less than $250,000 a year.’ “ Marcus concludes, “the president who launched his campaign bemoaning ‘our chronic avoidance of tough decisions’ chose to send his press secretary to clean up after economic advisers who dared to whisper hard truths.” Former Clinton campaign adviser Peter Daou is up with “Five Reasons the Health Care Battle Is NOT the Presidential Campaign”: “As Democrats fight for a signature issue, a serious strategic blunder has left them scrambling to catch up with their opponents. The White House should have laid out clear, unwavering objectives, a solid plan, rather than leave the health debate to meander through Congress. That vacuum has enabled the proponents of the status quo to marshal their forces,” Daaou writes for Huffington Post. “Perhaps resorting to campaign tactics will turn the tide, I certainly hope so, but it bears acknowledging that the landscape has changed.” Jay Cost, of Real Clear Politics: “The timing of this push is horrible — of all the unforced errors on the part of Obama and the congressional leadership, this one is the worst. They are debating health care at a time when people are cheering that the economy is only shrinking by 1%, so relieved they are that the ‘free fall’ is over.” And has Matt Drudge’s influence just increased, approximately a thousand-fold? “As the White House should have learned by now, picking a fight with a guy like Drudge can be counterproductive, just like picking a fight with say, Rush Limbaugh,” Mary Katharine Ham writes for The Weekly Standard. Wednesday brings a campaign-style push on the economy — with President Obama in Indiana, and Vice President Joe Biden in Michigan, speaking just about simultaneously around noon ET. From the White House: “The President will deliver remarks on the economy at Monaco RV (A Navistar Company) in Wakarusa. President Obama will discuss the immediate steps we have taken to rescue our economy, and the long-term investments we are making to rebuild for the future. He will discuss how we build a new economic foundation strong enough to withstand future economic storms and support lasting prosperity, and how we recapture the spirit of innovation that has always moved America forward.” And Organizing for American is urging action, in Michigan, tied to the vice president’s event Wednesday: “We need to show that we're sick and tired of the fear mongering. Join us tomorrow and show that you're standing up for the President and Vice President as they fight for the change this country needs.” Other kinds of stubborn things: “The White House is making a major push this week to persuade Americans that President Obama’s policies are helping bring the nation out of recession. But a four-letter word — jobs — may well get in the way,” Sheryl Gay Stolberg reports in The New York Times. This may not come this Friday, but it’s due to come some Friday soon: “For Americans, double-digit unemployment could be a psychological threshold with political ramifications for Mr. Obama,” Stolberg writes. Looming over the pitch: “Stimulus spending on infrastructure projects is moving slowly and many projects won't get started before the summer construction season ends, complicating the Obama administration's efforts to tout the impact of the $787 billion economic recovery act,” Christopher Conkey and Louise Radnofsky report in The Wall Street Journal. “The gradual start means many projects won't get under way before the beginning of the fall, when many construction projects in the northern half of the country typically halt before the winter rain and snow. That is providing fodder to critics of the recovery act who say it was overhyped as a way to quickly boost the economy. It may also hamper any potential efforts to pass another stimulus bill later this year.” Meanwhile, it’s yet another comeback for former President Bill Clinton, whose plane is due to touch down on American soil Wednesday morning: “Former President Bill Clinton ended his surprise trip to North Korea today, bringing home the two Asian-American journalists who had been jailed in the secretive nation, after he helped negotiate their pardons,” ABC’s Martha Raddatz and Joohee Choo report. “A senior White House official said the process was several months in the making,” Raddatz reported on “Good Morning America” Wednesday. “But the White House insisted Tuesday that this was not an official trip.” “Mr. Clinton’s mission to Pyongyang was the most visible by an American in nearly a decade,” Mark Landler and Peter Baker write in The New York Times. “And it catapulted Mr. Clinton back on to the global stage, on behalf of a president who defeated his wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, in a bitter primary campaign last year, and who later asked her to be his secretary of state. Mrs. Clinton was deeply involved in the case, too. She proposed sending various people to Pyongyang — including Mr. Clinton’s vice president, Al Gore — to lobby for the release of the women, before Mr. Clinton emerged as the preferred choice of the North Koreans, people briefed on the talks said.” It’s a “curious full circle in the life of Bill Clinton, who until this week was an elder statesman who seemed without a clear identity or useful role in Barack Obama’s presidency. A Clinton adviser said the former president is ready and eager for more Obama assignments,” Politico’s John F. Harris and Mike Allen report.
Maureen Dowd: “Hillary and President Obama look bigger when they share the stage with other talented players. And Barack and Bill may have finally started to put South Carolina behind them — without the need for a beer summit photo-op.” (A success for the Clintons, yes, and also for an administration that made this happen behind the scenes — and a president who didn’t mind being overshadowed on the world stage, even by former rivals.) “North Korea's surprise ‘special pardon’ of two American television journalists today may have reopened the channels of communication between the Obama administration and the secretive regime that for years has defied the world with its nuclear tests and political bombast,” the Los Angeles Times’ John M. Glionna and Paul Richter report. “At stake for President Barack Obama are the prospects for persuading Kim to abandon the North’s nuclear-arms development and his regime’s belligerent behavior,” Bloomberg’s Indira A.R. Lakshmanan reports. “Clinton’s wife, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has spearheaded a campaign to enforce sanctions on North Korean shipping and foreign assets to push Kim back to the table.” Setting up what may be the best Democratic primary of 2010, it’s Rep. Joe Sestak vs. Sen. Arlen Specter, in Pennsylvania: “In the past, the stubbornly independent Specter had to tack to the right to quiet the dominant conservatives in the GOP. Now, he has to shore up his left flank – and some measures show Specter voting more often with the Democrats since he switched parties and Sestak began threatening to run,” Thomas Fitzgerald and Joelle Farrell write for the Philadelphia Inquirer. New hat: “Bill Schneider, CNN’s longtime Senior Political Analyst, will be joining Third Way as the organization’s first Distinguished Senior Fellow & Resident Scholar.”
The Kicker: “One of the senators was saying to me as we walked out, ‘You know, it’s just so wonderful to hear him speak.’ You know, it’s like a symphony.” — Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., singing a happy tune on the way out of the Democratic caucus’ meeting with President Obama. “I would point out that I don't know what all those guys were doing, what were they called, the Brooks Brothers Brigade in Florida in 2000, appear to have rented a similar bus and are appearing together at town hall meetings throughout the country.” — White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, correctly identifying the clothing line worn by his boss at the inauguration.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/

User Comments

These protesters are not just republican, they are the main stream hard working americans who have had enough goverment.

Posted by: billy bob | August 5, 2009, 8:50 am 8:50 am

I had heard so many dismissals of the “The Note” for it’s GOP hackery, but reading this column clears up any doubt. From the “Something fishy…” phrase to the scouring of any Democratic criticism of the President’s work, this clearly has the signs of GOP hackery at its core.

Posted by: Beth in VA | August 5, 2009, 8:53 am 8:53 am

Matt thinks it’s about bipartinship. Bwaahahahaha….!

Posted by: LongT | August 5, 2009, 8:59 am 8:59 am

In other words the President wants to kill the message. Isn’t Obama on record as telling his followers “to get in the faces of the opposition”?Isn’t he also on record complaining about the 1000 page plus Patriot bill and the hurry that it was passed? Yet we have 3 bills; Stimulus, “tax” and trade and now medical “deform”, all of them 1000′s of pages long -not even complete in sone cases , but being rushed before anyone has a chance to see whats inside.
Complaining that shrill voices and paid pprotesters funded by republicans and insurance companies is absolutely laughable. While it is true that there are a many opposing voices, as there should be, the protest against this cannot even come close to tax payer funded groups such as acorn who pays drunks and derelicts a few bucks to protest in neighborhoods and banks.
Talk about being 2 faced.

Posted by: david | August 5, 2009, 9:04 am 9:04 am

The outbursts of frustration and anger evident at the recent town hall meetings are not the result of some ‘Vast Right Wing Conspiracy’. They are the direct result of the frontal attack on our basic liberties and freedoms by the current administration. The blatant attempt to take over and control our health care decisions has sparked a long overdue reaction against the abuse of big government. Pay attention to what’s happening; our freedom and our liberty are endangered. It’s the beginning of the second American Revolution with the Obama Administration and our Congress playing the part of King George and the English Parliament. Grab a tea bag, go to a town hall meeting and let your representatives know that we’re sick and tired of their overbearing attempts to control our lives. We are free people and we intend to stay free.

Posted by: BubblerDad | August 5, 2009, 9:21 am 9:21 am

LongT – Amen. I have attended a few rallies recently, and they have been mixed with Dems and Repubs alike. These is not Repub vs. Dem issue. These are common sense issues. Regardless of how Durbin wants to spin things, most Americans polled are against the healthcare bill in its present form. Most people want govt. to stay as much out of their lives as possible. We want the freedom to choose our success or our downfall.

Posted by: PWC032096 | August 5, 2009, 9:26 am 9:26 am

The Obama team has learned a lot from the Chavez team and they are putting it into practice.Those mobs are not orchestrated.We are not socilists and we don’t want a socialist government.Wasting money, yes, taxpayer money to pay back to the croonies that got them elected.The President has a socialist agenda primarly run by the progressive liberal democrats who have decide to go all along without people’s consent.Listen, bad things are coming.

Posted by: Frank | August 5, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am

Some how I’m not surprised that once again ABC continues to cheerlead the DNC and Obama. So, now if you demand your politicians actually read the bills they are voting on and take their time to get this right instead of just pushing something, anything through then you are a rigth wing mob.
Here’s a little news for you ABC. Barry has never stopped campaigning, even after being elected President. Maybe instead of still trying to run a campaign he can start acting like a President.
Also; maybe the WH and MSM should take a look at how the polls for Barry’s plan to take over Health Care has been falling. While many admit that something needs to be done, what Barry and the Dems have proposed is not it.
Here’s something else. While talking about “Misperceptions and misstatements”, maybe the WH should have actually watched those video’s of Barry before trying to tell you what he actually meant. In fact, why didn’t the WH play the video while trying to dispute it…could it be that they are hoping the typical suppoter will not bother listening to what he said?

Posted by: mikemcdon321 | August 5, 2009, 9:41 am 9:41 am

Our government is just flat out not listening to the people. They are going to give us change whether we like it or not. They don’t check poll numbers, reply to my letters to congress or listen when we talk. The dems are so close to total majority to do what they want it makes me sick.

Posted by: lfrichar | August 5, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am

Spin it anyway you like but these are voters who feel bullied to one degree or another into a major systemic change that threatens their direct, personal well being. This comes on the heels of a seemingly ubrupt economic downfall and resulting uncertainty about the remedies. It’s just too much intense change all at once and the administartion and the Democrats are very unwise to demonize those feelings and shove through major legislation that even few who are writing these laws understand.

Posted by: bct | August 5, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

If the prez is constantly on the road trying to sell a program, there must be something wrong with it. I would rather he post it so we can check it out and continue his job in DC where he is supposed to be. When politicians “present” their ideas in the manner in which Obama does, beware.

Posted by: lfrichar | August 5, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

Wow, Gus was right. ABC is blocking comments that disagree with the content of the Note. What hypocrites. Front page story about real journalists who were imprisoned for reporting the truth, and practicing censorship in the comments section. Unbelievable.

Posted by: Amy | August 5, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

This is a pretty hard sell. “We can’t do our jobs because the racists are drowning out our voices.” Huh? The Democrats own the White House and both Houses of Congress. If they cannot muster enough decibels to drown out the racists, then we will find some people who can. All that middle America is looking for is jobs. We gave Obama $787 billion of our dollars to hire some decent, hard-working folks. Apparently, he can’t find any in middle America. No problem, he can take his grand ideas and lofty promises back to the South Side of Chicago where they have been so effective thus far. You can’t win the election and try to play victim. That has zero chance of success. Americans are slow to anger, but with enough time they will get to angry. Obama has nothing to fear with regards to his personal safety. The US Treasury Secret Service are the best of the best. However, Obama has everything to fear for his political life. The correct headline should not read, “Racist blocks President and Congress from enacting Health Care Reform.” The correct headline should read, “President Obama today announced the creation of 100,000 new jobs in Indiana paid for with Federal Stimulus money. More to come…”

Posted by: Sean O'Brien | August 5, 2009, 9:52 am 9:52 am

Why is the liberal wing of the Democratic Party out to demonize ordinary Americans who want to make their voices heard? The left’s elitism is out of step with mainstream America. We don’t want Socialism. But no, the liberals always think they know what’s best for everyone. I hope they get their butts handed to them in the next election.

Posted by: Patrick | August 5, 2009, 10:00 am 10:00 am

“A note to the author” – Telling the truth about what the Republicans and their insurance company backers are doing is exactly what the Democrats should be doing. When a black Harvard prof. raises his voice in protest in his own living room he is arrested for “Disorderly Conduct”. When the health care industry lobbyists bus protesters all over the country to shout down others at town hall meetings, that’s democracy? Maybe Prof. Gates should have demanded Ofcr Crowley stop pushing for universal health care? – ITWARZ

Posted by: ITWARZ | August 5, 2009, 10:11 am 10:11 am

Rather dismal reporting by ABC at best. Their consistent parroting of the obama administrations talking points and strategy have worn on the We the People.
The beauty in what were are seeing at the town hall meetings is that they are not orchestrated, thus the real story, and ABC’s failure…..
I do not even consider ABC to be MSM anymore, just a propaganda machine for the administration…
What a sad day for our Country….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 10:21 am 10:21 am

Mobs rule for lack of confidence and it is growing rapidly. Know the saying ” Obama, America’s Gun Salesman of The Year”. There is a reason for it.

Posted by: Bob | August 5, 2009, 10:24 am 10:24 am

Can’t take it that people are not happy? As they say, you can’t take the heat, get the !#&& out of the kitchen (I guess in this case, the white house).

Posted by: ajax659 | August 5, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am

I’m all for health care reform. I guess it’s hard to understand if you have the money to buy insurance. My husband makes just over the amount for us to qualify for a government-funded insurance plan, but we don’t make enough to buy decent insurance privately- it would take an entire paycheck for him to pay for insurance (he gets paid biweekly) and we have rent/gas/utilities to pay.
I do believe we need to be better informed about the health care reform, and though I did identify as a Democrat at one point, I must say that Obama has actually disappointed me so far with his hypocrisy (ex. holding detainee photos he said he would release, etc).

Posted by: altheatreamaine | August 5, 2009, 10:33 am 10:33 am

These angry mob like protesters are staged by the Republicans as well as the Insurance Compaines the LOBBYSIT Who are trying to kill this bill Republicans are out to destroy President Obama as well as the Democrats they will stop at nothing! and they take MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM THE INSURANCE LOBBYSIT,I knew the Republicans played dirty but this is disgusting and PATHETIC To drown out the Peoples voices with their mobs DISGUSTING!

Posted by: Angie in PA | August 5, 2009, 10:39 am 10:39 am

Posted by: macrose | Aug 5, 2009 10:14:42 AM….I recently went to a town hall in md and there were no buses outside or caravan of organized people. Personally I would love to see healthcare reform but the bill or the rewrites in their current form are not the right way to go. Now if you want to start quoting people take a look at our good liar in chief. He spouts this crap because hes a good salesman…he could sell ice to an eskimo but the truth of the matter the bill is crap and he knows it. Its all about govt running the show. And for the WH and the DNC to call people mobs or orchestrated events…last time i checked this is america….voice your opinion….people have had enough and change will be coming in the 2010 elections. Both sides dems and repubs are gonna be kicked out since they are going for such radical and crazy ideas. So try actually going to one of these townhalls and educate yourself as to who is showing up. Dont jsut take the WH or MSM distorted viewpoint of the situation.

Posted by: jw1824 | August 5, 2009, 10:46 am 10:46 am

Right wing fanatics are dangerous remember Timothy McVeigh and the crazies that kill abortion doctors. They want to rule by threats and intimidation, do not lower yourself, Republicans have no standards they are greedy lowlifes.
They love insurance companies and the donations that allow them to keep what little power they have.

Posted by: Hege1321 | August 5, 2009, 10:49 am 10:49 am

Klein builds up the Dems in order to cut them down by saying that they build up the inciters of the mobs in order to cut them down. The action event, meanwhile, is the real incitement of people to behave badly on issues of public importance.
This is Korzibski’s warning against abstraction: Truth is not words about words about words about an event. If it’s truth you want, look directly at the event.
Fairness used to handle this sort of extremism in this country. Now Fairness is dead, or at least dormant like the brown grass of August. Well-meaning, fair-minded people roll over and sleep in the heat. Get up and restore Fairness to the land!

Posted by: Galileo813 | August 5, 2009, 10:53 am 10:53 am

These “protesters” are treasonous idiots who deserve to be attacked and need to be shut down,. They aren’t grassroots ordinary citizens, just mindless employees of conservative organizations – and they’re getting paid, too.

Posted by: matt | August 5, 2009, 10:55 am 10:55 am

…and these people should be torn down! Take your head out of the sand and look what’s happening to our country! What’s the matter with you people, you so-called reporters!
This isn’t a joke. And the raged Americans who are voicing their rage are not manufactured, or Astro Turfed – as the term is being used to describe the obvious outcry of Americans. GO FOR IT FOR ALL WHO ARE OUTRAGED..YOU SHOULD BE!

Posted by: Vicki | August 5, 2009, 11:12 am 11:12 am

Those voices in the heads of Democratic Party leaders are those of some of the same citizen voters they were elected to represent. They’re the voices of freedom lovers. It’s every bit as good a thing and the protestors are every bit as significant as the voices of Acorn, MoveOn, Americorps, and the labor unions who so desire relinguishing their freedom to the government. It is the tradition of Americans to want to have control of their lives and make choices for themselves without government intervention. The protestors are protesting the loss of those fundamentals.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | August 5, 2009, 11:14 am 11:14 am

hegel and amy in pa….what do you think of acorn and moveon? seems to me the silent majority is using your playbook.

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am

ITWARZ; Professor gates was arrested for disorderly conduct not in his living room, but after following an officer of the law just doing his job, trying to leave, and creating a disturbance outside. If you’re going to beat the dead horse at least get the facts straight.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | August 5, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” (applause) “I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”
Obama speaking to the Illinois AFL-CIO, June 30, 2003.

Posted by: ConstantXI | August 5, 2009, 11:27 am 11:27 am

The GOP is imploding. Its two main groups, the birthers and the yellers, are taking GOP nasty to a new extreme.
I have an opinion. The Big Health Care Corporations could stop the yelling and uncivil behavior. They are financing it by financing the web sites which are encouraging it and writing the scripts to be used for it.
To me the health care reform issue is simple. Is the purpose of health care reform to protect the massive billion-dollar corporations? The CEO of Cigna makes twelve million a year and will get a seventy-three-million-dollar golden parachute. Another big health care conglomerate made over three quarters of a billion dollars last quarter.
Or is the purpose of health care reform to get affordable health care to everyone? Does it involve helping the fifty million uninsured, the 14,000 losing health care every day, the under insured, those who have lost health insurance because of rescission, and those who are now insured who know they will probably lose their coverage or their job (to keep from having to insure them) when they have an expensive illness in the family.
The corporations or the people? If you are for the corporations, for protecting the rich CEOs and the cheery-picking insurers, you are on the GOP side (with a few Blue Dogs thrown in).
If you are for the people, then you are the ones the birthers and the yellers are shouting down trying to silence a majority.
We need a public option health care plan now. And the more they yell, the more we need to stand up and fight for the public option health care plan.

Posted by: JAB | August 5, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am

This article illustrates what frauds and phonies Obama and the Democratic Party Leadership are.
That these people can, with a straight face, claim to represent the “little guy”(especially when their health care “reform” will end up with the rationing of health care to seniors) is laughable.

Posted by: ConstantXI | August 5, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am

If you want people to listen to you, you should start by not shouting over them when they try to speak. There is a right way and a wrong way to make your opinions known. If all you do is shout, all people can hear is that you are against something, not WHY you are against it or the points that could lead to being against it. What I’m saying is that if you want people to listen, you have to tone it down a little and make rational arguments, not just shout people down. You could actually convince people to be on your side if you make convincing arguments…but just chanting and yelling is likely to disgust any undecided voters and turn them to the other side.

Posted by: mallory | August 5, 2009, 11:30 am 11:30 am

When is this so called “smartest President ever” going to release his college grades?
And would the “smartest President ever” really dive right into a local police matter to say(without knowing the facts) that the “police acted stupidly” and that the police were basically white racists(and then conduct a phony photo op “beer summit” just to cover up his gaffes)?

Posted by: ConstantXI | August 5, 2009, 11:33 am 11:33 am

Beth in VA,
I’m sure you are a nice lady.
And don’t think emotionally.

Posted by: ConstantXI | August 5, 2009, 11:35 am 11:35 am

and they are being used by corporate insurance company lobbyists.. this is a fact

Posted by: earth_not_flat | August 5, 2009, 11:38 am 11:38 am

Note to self. Don’t read the article…read the comments. It tells the true story.

Posted by: self | August 5, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am

Unlike the special interest protestors employed by non-profit organizations, paid with tax dollars, bussed all over, and trained by community organizers, this new breed of protestors is part of a true grass roots movement by individuals acting on their own who don’t want a big expensive shiny controlling government.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | August 5, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

pelosi reid and obama…what more needs to be said. i applaud gietner, summers and biden for being honest with the american people. obama claiming he wont raise your taxes one dime is fraud. cap and tax alone proves his intentions. if this thing passes the step will be uh! my administrations estimates were wrong just like the stimulus, and therefor you middle classers are going to have to pay much higher tax to pay for someone elses healthcare.

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

how about that global warming stuff?

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 11:43 am 11:43 am

Angie in PA I hate to break it to you but these people are not drowning out any voices at the Town hall meetings this is the majority of the people at these meetings who are madd as hell with you libs trying to tell everyone this is the way it is going to be, wrong.

Posted by: billy bob | August 5, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am

I find it quite humorous to see the democrats imploding…and ABC following along like the good stewarts of the sheeple thay are…
Attacking citizens and tax payers for speaking (in any way the chose) is not the way forward for the democrats, nor ABC…
Lietening and reporting are the order of the day, something neither the democrats nor ABC know much about as demonstrated over the past several months.
My advice to democrats and ABC…STOP blindly accepting the democrat talking points and carrying the water for the obama administration, think for yourselves….it is refreshing…

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am

angie in pa and hagel.according to CNN POLL 50% approve and 45% are aginst,only one in 3 think this will help them. the DNC is making up falsehoods and they are being exposed. this will be a long recess.americans are saying enough govt spending…create a job….that would be a good start. get the money out washington and back to the people.

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 11:53 am 11:53 am

The opposition to Obama’s healthcare reform is about fear and uncertainty. The country is in a recession with 9+% rising unemployment, people have watched their retirement savings tank, their housing values plummet and the federal deficit skyrocket with threats of new taxes. Now the administration decides it’s the right time to shove major, systemic change to the one of the most significant and personal aspects of our lives: healthcare and they have done it in a way that assumes we have no choice. They have the majority and can do as they please and it’s all for our own good. Fear and uncertainty: whether it’s shouting at a townhall meeting or just hanging on to your money in a bunker mentality. Demonizing those feelings is extremely unwise and looks like a bullying power grab. Not exactly what I would call compassion.

Posted by: bct | August 5, 2009, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

wher is the OMB midsession report? that will determine alot here and whether this administation has a clue.

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 12:22 pm 12:22 pm

catman:
90% reasonable people polled believe the rightwing base is off.
Somewhere I heard that.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

these folks are the face of the republican party – remember them – they will be in every campaign commercial for years to come – republican’s will have to defend the angry mob and distance themselves from them. Not possible. Democrats sit back and smile!

Posted by: cjr | August 5, 2009, 12:33 pm 12:33 pm

I was there and it was not staged or planned it was real spontaneous outrage with the whole political system. 50% or more of the protesters were Democrats, many independants, and Republicans as well. The main thing I got was that people were not only sick of Obam’s agenda but that they were sick of leaders in both parties!

Posted by: tony | August 5, 2009, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

You’re right Angie in PA…how disgusting for people to demand that their senators and congresspeople actually read the bill they are voting on. Just down right disgusting and pathetic. Conyers from here in Michigan would love you since he admitted to not reading the bills he votes on.

Posted by: mikemcdon321 | August 5, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm

We should get rid of medicare and see how much these people want health care reform. They would be protesting harder for the reinstatement of government controlled health care (medicare).

Posted by: hyperkell | August 5, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm

Not sure why my comment is gone. Here I was agreeing with Angie in PA that it’s disgusting for people to expect their senators and congress people to read the bill. How dare people attend these townhall meetings and make such demands. You’re right Angie…it’s just downright disgusting and pathetic.

Posted by: mikemcdon321 | August 5, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

As a Demo, I am upset that the Pres has chosen this time in our economic history to pursue this rush to massive spending. Pres. Obama should restate the truth as we see it. We don’t have the money.

Posted by: roger king | August 5, 2009, 12:58 pm 12:58 pm

Somewhere in all this ideological catfighting it has been lost that the U.S. healthcare system is a bloated, inefficient mess. Its too bad that, while people are screaming and shouting, other folks are suffering.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 5, 2009, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm

I hate big HMO’s as much as I hate the Republican and Democratic party’s, yet if I found out about a town hall meeting in my area, I’d pay money to go and let my voice be heard at my outrage over this bill. It’s news stories like this that make me think the conspiracy theorists are right about the media.

Posted by: mammaduck | August 5, 2009, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm

For all the people who say they are satisfied with their health insurance. What makes you think you will have it a year from now? With the rising costs, many companies are stopping or cutting back on the health care they offered. It will soon be too expensive for most companies to continue this. Many who are in the union have health care but no raises for the last three years. We are ranked 37th in the world on health care and have the most expensive health care program. The life expectancy if only 50% here in the U.S. due to this care. Other countries cannot believe the ignorance of those who oppose it. This is the time to act. we are paying for those who do not have health care and if it continues, our country will go broke just over health care. Something needs to be done to address this problem. The mis-information, deceptions, and lies by the opposing party (who by the way did not do anything about it when they could) is so sad. I do believe much of it is just to take Obama down and not about health care.

Posted by: talmag | August 5, 2009, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm

Wow, the liberal cluelessnes is shocking….If our health care system is so bad, then why does the rest of the world come here for medical procedures?
Perhaps ABC just cannot see past their bias as they seem to surround themselves with many of the same liberals that are posting here….
And for the record, the Republicans have great ideas, I wonder why you liberals know nothing of them??? Hello, ABC???

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm

Last year, lawmakers excoriated the CEOs of the Big Three automakers for traveling to Washington, D.C., by private jet to attend a hearing about a possible bailout of their companies.
But apparently Congress is not philosophically averse to private air travel: At the end of July, the House approved nearly $200 million for the Air Force to buy three elite Gulfstream jets for ferrying top government officials and Members of Congress.
The Air Force had asked for one Gulfstream 550 jet (price tag: about $65 million) as part of an ongoing upgrade of its passenger air service.
The House Appropriations Committee, at its own initiative, added to the 2010 Defense appropriations bill another $132 million for two more airplanes and specified that they be assigned to the D.C.-area units that carry Members of Congress, military brass and top government officials.

Posted by: LongT | August 5, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm

Most of these gatherings don’t look built up to me. Been following the movement and there is hardly any attendance at all. The tea parties typically have less than 1% of the population available with a 10 mile radius of the event. Very small group of people trying to decide the coarse for the other 99%. Real tea party began more than 4 years ago with the republicans being thrown out of office as fast as the election process will allow. LOL

Posted by: rightbehind | August 5, 2009, 1:39 pm 1:39 pm

Manufactured? If there is any manufacturing going it’s with this administration. I voted for Obama and now I’m mad as hell. Is that manufactured Mr. Obama? I also think this BS tactic of calling centrist Independents’, Libertarians’, Republicans’ and this Democrat right wing loons for having read this car crash of a bill has me now exiting this once proud party, thank you Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid. I have had it. Don’t Tread On Me or my fellow citizens and God help any plebe as I used to be for “Change” in approaching me on these many issues. There can be no debate because what I’m being told and the language of this healthcare bill I’m reading are light years apart thus I’m being lied to. There is no other explanation.

Posted by: Seymour | August 5, 2009, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm

I had no one egging me on when I attended 2 tea parties. There is no right wing conspiracy nor is there an insurance co urging me to protest. Is it so difficult for those of you in the media to believe we believe in what we are doing? What the president wants to do is all wrong. I say NO to govt health and no to cap and trade. We are Taxed Enough Alredy.

Posted by: cathy spino | August 5, 2009, 2:12 pm 2:12 pm

These people who are protesting government’s take over of Health Care aren’t a right-wing conspiracy. They are people who believe Barack Obama and the Liberal Lawmakers aren’t telling the truth about how a government run system will work or who (eventually) will have to pay for it. It’s disbelief…plain and simple:
1. We don’t believe Obama when he says government involvement in Health Care will make things better. Why? Because we’ve all seen the government at work. I wouldn’t trust them to walk my dog…why would I trust them to decide if I could undergo a surgical procedure? If you want to see the definition of ineptness, go to a VA Hospital or clinic. This is what your health care will look like in a few years under the Obama plan. I’m a retired military person…I’ve told my wife that I’d rather die on the sidewalk than be admitted to a VA facility.
2. We don’t believe Obama or the Congress when they say that the middle class won’t be taxed to pay for government provided Health Care. Why? Because there isn’t enough tax or other monies available FROM ANY SOURCE to pay for the plans that are being floated through the system. Obama can say (emphatically if he chooses) that middle class America won’t be taxed…but we’re not stupid. We know how this works…and we know better than to trust him. We will be taxed OR we will have to pay MORE for services. It just can’t function any other way.
3. We simply don’t trust the government. They spend our tax money like it was coming from their own piggy bank. All they were tasked to do was to protect our country and our freedoms. Why do they believe you should get involved in our personal lives? And believe me, it doesn’t get much more personal than Health Care.

Posted by: Sunrogue | August 5, 2009, 2:32 pm 2:32 pm

Do you understand what you talking about?
People who want healthcare reform want to prevent the huge insurers & pharmaceuticals [making profits in the billions] from getting larger and richer without social responsibility in providing fair coverage for the majority. With unregulated capitalism these huge corporations have no incentive to do the right thing for most Americans [like you & I]
Surely you can understand that concept, you seem like a bright guy. I haven’t read anything in the proposals that indicates a purely socialized system. BTW, We already have a type of socialized coverage with Medicare and federal employees.
The concept of health reform is to provide standards that ensure the safety of the people. The insurance companies continue to make huge profits while cherry-picking and denying claims.
I guess you are more interested in Big Corporation ruling the country, while people with illness and out of work continue to suffer?
The government was formed, and continues to be responsible to provide the standards by which our democracy functions [remember the Constitution?]

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:37 pm 2:37 pm

Does anyone address the constitution on conservo/religio talk radio?

Posted by: betsey ross | August 5, 2009, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm

If there were any validity in the rantings at ravings in the town hall meetings, why would it be so loud and dumbed down? “Just Say No!”? What point is that trying to get across other than “We are angry at you!”? Why not debate the policy with facts and figures(real ones). I know that republicans are not bereft of useful ideas, but when you just scream the same failed ideology to drown out real concern and change you are doing the country a disservice

Posted by: JM | August 5, 2009, 2:43 pm 2:43 pm

Currently Healthcare in the U.S. is used as a profit center for private industry (see United Health Care’s latest 155% increase in profits).
These corporations profit from our illnesses. What would be their incentive to provide better coverage and health prevention programs?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

Does anyone on conservative radio mention the huge corporations profiting in the healthcare business?
if not, why?
anyone wonder about that?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:49 pm 2:49 pm

JM – I agree with you that we should debate the policy with facts and figures (real ones)…but when you are faced with a policy that is being rushed through (like Health Care was), your chances to state your opposition are a little slim. I think many of us feel like we’re being railroaded into these changes and that the changes themselves haven’t been well thought out. We’ve already spent trillions of dollars on boosting the economy and no one yet has said how we’re going to pay for that. Now we’re being told we MUST pass Health Care reform quickly….and it’s only going to cost $1.8 trillion more. I hate to say it but it’s like giving a kid $1000 and letting them run wild in a toy store.

Posted by: Sunrogue | August 5, 2009, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm

What is Anne Coulters suggestion for the rationing of healthcare for profit?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:51 pm 2:51 pm

Profit Bad = Socialism—-Got it!
It is really that simple….
Just what do you think makes our health care system the best in the world?
If ABC continues to spew propaganda, profit will fall….Are they the next to be bailed out???

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm

What is Rush Limbaugh’s position on physician fee for service? … on insurer pre-condition screening? … on underwriting costs transferred to the subscribers?
does anyone know? Does anyone ask? Why not?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

Personally I like the Town Meeting attendance concept. It’ll get the conservative patriots together, so that when those involved start losing their jobs and insurance coverage, the rest of the conservatives can help them out financially.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

Yikes…gus amaral…You must not watch anything but ABC…
Republicans positions:
physician fee – change the model from a pay per procedure to a salaried position
Pre-conditions – this has already been agreed to be eliminated, with no obama bill needed
underwriting costs to subscribers – control costs by making healthcare outcome based, not procedure based
Open your eyes

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 2:59 pm 2:59 pm

Dear Bob in MD,
Please cite a reference indicating how GOP backed healthcare outcome based care
will work.
I’m curious.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:06 pm 3:06 pm

The fact of the matter is that the COST of healthcare is the problem, NOT the insurance; insurance claims would be paid out more if the COST of the health care wasn’t so high. Why is health care so expensive? Because frivolous lawsuits make doctors do tests that aren’t needed and charge more for those tests because they have to pay higher malpractice insurance to cover themselves so they aren’t bankrupted by a frivolous lawsuit. If loopholes are closed in tort law (just like if tax law loopholes were closed), the COST of health care would drop due to competition in the free market, insurance would be cheaper and would provide better coverage, etc. etc. Medicare and Medicaid are also a problem with the costs – unscrupolous individuals file false claims to get paid, because they KNOW the government is inefficient and won’t pay attention to the claims, blindly writing the check. And you want that for everyone? Please.

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

Sure gus…
Even obama likes the Republicans ideas…it is just a shame his ideology will not let him reach across the isle like he promised…
The healthcare bill proposed now is based upon increasing access, not controling cost. The model at Cleveland Clinic is to increase access and control cost while making a profit…Which plan do you think will work….and will be the best plan for the Country in the long run?
See why it is so important for ABC to be unbiased…They are attempting to write history for the people instead of reporting history for the people….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 3:14 pm 3:14 pm

a major factor influencing the continuing rise in healthcare cost is increasing is directly proportional to the increase in chronic illness [i.e. due to obesity].

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm

Bob in MD —
You are the one that’s wrong and I’ll tell you why:
“Pre-conditions – this has already been agreed to be eliminated, with no obama bill needed”…
that’s YOUR statement.
And it is ABSOLUTELY FALSE!
There is no agreement at this time, there are several bills from various committees “on the table”… meaning ANY health care reform legislation is at a “work in progress” stage.
THERE IS NO FINAL WRITTEN-IN-STONE BILL!!!!
The people coming to “exercise their rights” at the Town Hall Meetings are only there to disallow other citizens the chance to voice their opinions and ask questions in order for our reps to hear ALL our voices before they craft a FINAL BILL.
Yelling at Congress people to “Read the bill” is ONE OF MANY tactics that has been sent in letters and e-mails and phone calls and on websites to these “protesters”. I know, I’ve seen them — I am signed up and I watch for this type of HYPE!
FOLKS/READERS/POSTERS — While these “protesters” may have legitimate opinions, they DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS!
Their Outrage is a FALSE picture of a huge movement — that actually consists of no more than 10% (20% if you want to be very, very generous) of Voting age American.
Don’t be fooled. If you go to a Town Hall and can’t ask your legitimate questions because these folks are shouting… PERSIST! Ask and keep asking, write letters, bring groups of your own to counteract this very vocal “MINORITY”! Get the answers you want and need in order to ask your representatives to vote for the health care reform YOU want.
THANK YOU

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm

Patient safety is lacking in quality of care in the U.S. thus, substandard and suboptimal quality.
Lack of cooperative/integrative health informatics. [Private companies do not want to share their databases with others in a healthcare for profit system.]
Underwriting and administrative costs by insurers drive up the cost [$6 of the $10 of services is spent on actual service.]
Has anyone discussed these issues at a tea party/town hall in the last week?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:22 pm 3:22 pm

gus amaral,
“People who want healthcare reform want to prevent the huge insurers & pharmaceuticals [making profits in the billions] from getting larger and richer without social responsibility in providing fair coverage for the majority.” As apposed to government getting bigger and more intrusive and deciding who gets what coverage? I’m actually pretty happy with my health care. I am not wealthy and so I work hard to provide my family with that and the other necessities of life. I neither need nor want the government involved.
“Surely you can understand that concept, you seem like a bright guy.” I understand plenty, don’t be patronizing. I understand the threat of an all powerful centralized government. I also trust a free market to provide quality goods and services more than I trust the government to regulate it or anything else. Here comes the caps lock again. I DON’T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO DO SQUAT! I DO NOT TRUST REPUBLICANS OR DEMOCRATS OR TECHNOCRATS OR BUROCRATS OR ANY OTHER KIND OF CRAT! What is it that makes the government more trustworthy than corporations anyway and what’s so evil about making a profit? I make a profit every month in the form of salary and yes health care coverage from my employer. I provide my time and they compensate me for it. In order to make a profit corporations must provide something of quality that we compensate them for and it’s those profits that keep corporations going. Government doesn’t have to provide quality or show a profit to survive, they just steal the money from us in the form of taxes. They need more money they just steal more money from us.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm

Bob in MD:
Being quite familiar with the Cleveland Clinic model, it’s not clear that everyone has equal, open access to their system.. Some believe their patients are hand picked, so if you claim to speak for the Republicans …how will the party address a democratic access of care in their model system?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:30 pm 3:30 pm

Now I know the truth about the liberal news media and Obama. I am disgusted how they have intentionally lied about the American people speaking out at town hall meetings and tea parties. WE THE PEOPLE will continue to speak out. Those at the meetings are for the most part very respectful. The only reason some people shout is because they KNOW Washington and the media do not care about them. WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE REAL HOPE AND CHANGE–NO MORE LIES OF OBAMA’s HOPE AND CHANGE.

Posted by: Donna | August 5, 2009, 3:34 pm 3:34 pm

The cost of premiums for a not for profit insurance program would obviously be much less than for a for profit insurance program.
What do the for profit insurance companies add to the health care system? They take away money that could actually be used on treatment for the sick. Their unabashed acceptance that they deserve the exorbitant compensation for work that Medicare, Medicaid, the VA medical program do without discrimination for higher risk or low income is absurd. The enormous profits, executive salaries, increasing premiums, exorbitantly paid lobbyists [like Karen Ignagni, earning $1.6 million in 2007]
An indicator of how far we are fallen in concern for the welfare of our citizens versus the accumulation of wealth for the already rich.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:40 pm 3:40 pm

Everyone has seen the recent government run media publishing stories that ABC, MSNBC, the Democrats and others are claiming that the protest at town hall meetings are paid for, and organized by the Republican Party. Here are the facts;
FACT: There is absolutely no evidence or money trail proving the Republican Party has paid for or organized any form of disturbance, mob induced riot, or any thing related to an Obama Health Care demonstration.
FACT: Many of those protesting at the town meetings protesting Obama Health Care are DEMOCRATS!
FACT: Many of those being protested at town hall meetings are Republicans!
FACT: ACORN members have been arrested and awaiting trial on voter fraud, and conspiracy!
FACT: ACORN members gave homeless people free meals and then drove them to vote for Obama!
FACT: ACORN members have been arrested for private property destruction!
FACT: ACORN members interfere with the duties of safety officers and blocked fire exits, and lanes of traffic!
FACT: ACORN member’s lawyer was Barack Hussein Obama!
FACT: ACORN members were instructed by Barack Hussein Obama on civil disturbance procedures and how to avoid being arrested!
FACT: ACORN members receive millions of dollars of tax payer’s money courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama!
FACT: ACORN has been appointed to conduct the next United States Census courtesy of Barack Hussein Obama!
FACT: ACORN members are on constant call by Barack Hussein Obama staff to launch protest across the country and financed by TAX PAYERS money!
NOW WHO IS TELLING THE TRUTH AND WHO IS SPREADING LIES?

Posted by: Alexander Freeborn | August 5, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm

gus amaral,
“Their unabashed acceptance that they deserve the exorbitant compensation for work that Medicare, Medicaid, the VA medical program do without discrimination for higher risk or low income is absurd.”
This statement is what is absurd, my mother died broke while waiting for Medicare to get its burocratic act together, trying to decide if she should get the care she needed.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm

The disruption of town hall meetings by both individuals hired by insurance companies and right wing extremist groups speaks for itself.
Why are right wingers so afraid of the truth that the current US health system is a farce?
Might it be that that their God intended profit scheme is in jeopardy?
Or might it be that some Americans are just inferior and not entitled to reasonable health care?
It has been a hundred years since Theodore Roosevelt first called for universal health care for American citizens. How much longer is it going to take to implement a health care program for all?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm

The insurance lobby have paid multi-millions of dollars to spread lies about socialized (single-payer) systems around the world, and to buy the votes of a variety of prostitutes in the Senate and House of Representatives, mostly Republicans.
The worse thing about the average American, which is reinforced by the lies of this industry and its minions, is a notion of what freedom of choice means. The reality is that even the insured have little or no choice, as most could not afford insurance coverage if it was not subsidized by their employer’s group plans. In addition, many do not qualify for coverage under current industry practice of refusing people with “pre-existing conditions”.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm

Most Americans are unaware of the limitations of their policies, and only find out what is not covered when they develop a serious medical need, and are forced to pay for many expensive procedures out-of-pocket. In addition, they underestimate their cost of a 30% co-payment.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm

“…what’s so evil about making a profit?” – Aaron
Well, for one thing, you’re draining people when they are at their most vulnerable. Sick people are desperate for relief and are being destroyed financially so investore can sit at home and wait for their check in the mail.
I have a friend whose wife has a chronic condition – so no profit in giving her health insurance – so no insurance. A day of tests recently ran up a $5,000 bill – in one day!
I believe in capitalism – for most things. But its not the only solution to every problem. I think that it is a sin to make money off of sick people. You need to pay the staff, buy supplies and equipment, maintain the hospital buildings, etc. But skimming more money off of the sick so people who have nothing to do with providing care can collect dividends is evil.
Health care is a public concern, like the national defense, fire departments and trash collection – its time we started treating it like one.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 3:59 pm 3:59 pm

The insurance industry are abbetted in their crimes against society by a cadre of corrupt and fundamentalist churches, and the libertarian movement. Together these groups have prevented American society from progressing from its original frontier mentality, to developing the social conscience of a mature, developed nation.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:00 pm 4:00 pm

At least a government bureacrat wouldn’t make any more salary based on claims they’d deny.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:02 pm 4:02 pm

Posted by: Aaron | Aug 5, 2009 3:51:46 PM
__________________
you missed the point.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:03 pm 4:03 pm

I have one question for all you people who want government health care. What has the govenrment ever done efficiantly enough that you trust them to handle this? Why do you trust them? OK that’s two questions.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 4:04 pm 4:04 pm

Gus Amaral, exactly how is the current health care bill going to control cost and increase access in a way that is beneficial to the public in both a health care quality and tax payer sense and beneficial to the companies and their shareholders (if applicable) in a private sense? In Des Moines, there are few hospitals that are ‘for profit’ – the major ones (Mercy and Methodist, for instance) are non-profits. I know that is also the case in most major cities. Insurance would be cheaper if actual HEALTH CARE COSTS would be cheaper, which, like I said, would increase access for everyone. Close tort loopholes…decrease the costs of the education of doctors…etc. etc. There’s a whole slew of things, but it definately isn’t health insurance that’s the problem…

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 4:06 pm 4:06 pm

Special interest folks are stressed, nervous and confused about the Prez popularity, as they should be. The man is a genius with a good heart. Stop all this nay-saying about socialism-noone is listening. Let the man do his job.

Posted by: Carol | August 5, 2009, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm

In a philosophical sense, it is immoral for insurers to be making such profits while poor and middle-class Americans suffer under unbearable healthcare and insurance coverage costs.
[the 10 largest insurers earned $13 billion in 2007]
We don’t “need health insurance” in this country – we need health care.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm

Aaron: an interesting business model..
An entire industry whose main function consists of determining ways to see that the services customers or potential customers attempted to guarantee would be there when necessary, are never or rarely actually received.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:09 pm 4:09 pm

Dear annoyed:
I’m afraid the ‘tort’ business as an issue is a small factor in a larger problem, no doubt a valid one in a corrupt unsustainable system.
p.s. physicians have to pay insurers for malpractice insurance. the insurance companies are making profit again.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm

I am an average, middle class, professional working mom with a six-month old daughter. I am against this particular health care reform and have contacted my Representative and my Senators. I will attend a town hall meeting if one is in my area, not at the urging of any group, but because I want to have my voice heard and to stop this insane spending that my family will fund for generations. I suppose that makes me a “right wing extremist”? The reason the “mobs” are shouting at the town halls is because their voices are not being heard. I haven’t met a single person who is FOR this legislation, but the media is only reporting about those who ARE for it unless they are trying to portray the opponents as “nuts.” To be marginalized and disrepected by the President and the leaders of the Democratic party is incredibly offensive to me. President Bush may not have agreed with protesters such as Cindy Sheehan, but he did not dismiss them as some type of nut jobs–he gave them the respect they deserved as American citizens. We “rabid extremists” and Tea Party attendees deserve the same respect. We WILL be heard.

Posted by: alldressedup | August 5, 2009, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm

OB-Wan222
Sorry that doesn’t fly. Like I said in my last post my mother died penniless because government run medicare decided she had to much money in the form of equity on her home. So we had to sell her house to get the money for her care. It was not until she had no money that they would be willing to provide for her care. Her health care bills at that time were running about $40,000.00 per month. Fortunately for the burocrats she died about the time her money ran out. So much for government compassion.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 4:18 pm 4:18 pm

Among the aspects of this healthcare battle, is the long term effect of Republicans slashing education budgets whenever and wherever they are in power. Their goal is to lower the general intelligence quotient so that an ever greater percentage of the population will be evermore susceptible to propaganda, with the result being that their brainwashed victims thereby campaign against their own best interests.
Another effect of this lowered intelligence is starkly illustrated by the nature of comments.
Liberal comments are literate, well reasoned, and reflect education.
Conservative comments are more likely to be ranting, illiterate, poorly reasoned, and reflect insufficient education.
This is no accident.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 4:18 pm 4:18 pm

Gus,
The actual lawsuits are a small part of the cost in terms of actual dollar amount paid out because of them; the THREAT of lawsuits cause the doctors to do tests that aren’t needed to prevent them from happening, which drives up the cost of everything, causes them to haev excessive malpractice insurance (which, yes, insurance companies get money for that as well, but they would get LESS if cost was controlled and tort loopholes closed, no?). My overall point is that doctors need to make a lot of money to pay for their education, they need to make a lot of money to pay for their malpractice insurance, and they need to perform more tests than necessary at a greater cost to prevent lawsuits. Lower cost of health care = cheaper insurance and lower out of pocket cost for everyone, thhose with and without insurance. Also, you bring up VA hospitals, medicare, and medicaid – those are TERRIBLE examples of universal healthcare.

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm

gus amaral – you missed the point.
No I don’t think I did. The point is that if the government lets my mother die penniless it’s OK, it just better not be an evil profit making corporation. No I get it. Apathy on the part of the government is acceptable but not profit on the part of insurance companies. Well you can do away with the evil insurance companies and their profits. Unfortunately governmental apathy is here to stay.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 4:26 pm 4:26 pm

I think the democratics should be ashamed of themselves. You have taken a popular president and not helped him pass his ideas. You moaned and groaned about not having a democratic president and when you get one with ideas for change…what do you do…not support him? If he fails, so do all of you because the republicans will not fail to take advantage of your in-house fighting to win in the next election. I am not a democrat but an independent and you are the reason I cannot be a party person. You need to put your egos and lobbyists aside and get behind a president who is right on health care. It will break us if we do not address it. We rank 37 in the world on health care and we have the most expensive one with little to show for it. What does this tell you? The other countries cannot believe that we cannot come together on a health care bill. You have not done your jobs in getting out there and explaining this bill and people are afraid to lose what they have. What they don’t realize is that they will lose it anyway if costs keep rising. Companies will soon have to cut it out or cut it back and where will everyone be? We are paying for all those who have no insurance and go to the emergency rooms anyway. Hopefully, you will get together and do something right for a change. T. Kennedy has been fighting for this his entire life and for good reason.

Posted by: talmag | August 5, 2009, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm

Hey, Angie! I was at a town hallmeeting. I’m not a pawn of the insurance company (do you tell yourself that to avoid facing the truth about your socialist pres?) I was able to attend because I no longer have a job. We were there to try to get our pres to listen to us. What a joke his policies are! We are the People! Wake up, you moron! Dirty politics were invented and perfected by the Libs!

Posted by: FlowerGirl | August 5, 2009, 4:31 pm 4:31 pm

Gus, in case you missed it, those who are undereducated due to “Republican education budget cuts” and “more susceptible to propaganda” are the ones who helped elect the democrats to power in congress and Obama. I have yet to see anything that you have said to make me think that this plan to make sure EVERYONE has insurance is going to fix and reform health care; where is the cost control that makes it so expensive we NEED insurance? Medicare, Medicaid, and VA care are incompetent at best.

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm

“What has the govenrment ever done efficiantly enough that you trust them to handle this?” – Aaron
Let me ask you a question – why do you assume that for-profit businesses are so efficient?
You do know that half of all businesses fail in the first two years, right? So even if we’re generous and assume that the remaining businesses that haven’t shut their doors are successful – then that’s a 50% success rate. Does that sound efficient to you?
Think about the companies that you have worked for. Are they efficient? Are they successful? Are they growing or shrinking? Making money or throwing it down a hole (maybe both, right)? We all know companies that we have seen on the inside – would you classify half of them as efficient?
Despite the lessons of the steel mills, the car makers, the wall street houses, etc. we continue to worship profit as if it were some magic bullet that can solve all problems.
No solution is going to please anyone, but I would rather have the rationing of health care done by someone without a conflicting interest. The insurance companies make more money if they keep people from getting health care – that means its more “efficient” for them to allow people to suffer and die needlessly.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 4:40 pm 4:40 pm

ITWARZ and Angie in PA: And ACORN and the New Black Panter Party are the nice and misunderstood organizations, who love America as much as you do. The rest of americans are idiots and don’t know whats best for them. Good job.

Posted by: Lizzie | August 5, 2009, 4:41 pm 4:41 pm

“I have one question for all you people who want government health care. What has the govenrment ever done efficiantly enough that you trust them to handle this? Why do you trust them? OK that’s two questions.”
—posted by Aaron
****
Answer:
Run the country for Two Hundred and Thirty Three years (give or take a few while the Constitution was being written).
I don’t know about you — but I think the experiment is working!

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 4:42 pm 4:42 pm

dassis…
All experiments end…as it seems this one may be doing….
We the People will be heard, make no mistake….IT just seems to surprise you liberals that when you kinck the sleeping dog enough, it will wake up and bite you….
Hopefully ABC will wake up, it was the last of the good alphabet channels….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 4:46 pm 4:46 pm

Aaron – I am sorry that you had such a horrible experience. And I understand your bitterness towards govt.
But do you really believe that your family would have done any better in the tender mercies of the insurance industry. That’s a hypothetical question because its clear that you probably couldn’t have gotten insurance at any price.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 4:47 pm 4:47 pm

annoyed….
Oh please. The last election was won by the votes of a broad range coalition. You obviously don’t have enough “native intelligence” to simply read the posts here and on other boards and understand that what gus said is absolutely verifiable. It’s not opinion, it is documented truth.
PS – There is a great deal of health “cost control” measures offered among the various drafts of legislation coming from committees in Congress. You don’t know about them because you haven’t bothered to educate yourself on the facts of this matter.

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 4:51 pm 4:51 pm

OB-Wan, you have valid points, but why should we throw tax payer money away like we have been with Medicare and Medicaid? I’m 26 – I’ve already come to grips that the thousands upon thousands of dollars that I’ve paid into Medicare and social security will never be seen by me. That’s money I’ve EARNED myself that the government has wasted on inefficiencies. I understand how profit can motivate companies to not be compassionate, but I also understand how total apathy is the cause of the government wasting my money, your money, and everyone else’s money. The ineptness of the stimulus package and its implementation should show that…health care needs to be reformed – insurance mandates paid for by the government is NOT the way to do it.

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 4:53 pm 4:53 pm

American are too well trained to show outrage anymore. The people who yell at town halls are disruptive and offer nothing constructive. Why not listen to the representatives and let then answer questions? Why not participate in the solution instead of complaining about the situation. These tactics are all too familiar… fear of socialism, no tyranny, no communism, no fascism, doctors killing elders.. the misinformation list goes on and on. Whoop up the ignorant and then ride behind the clown car. The outrage is so over the top it is theater.

Posted by: muffler | August 5, 2009, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm

If this Obamacare will be so great, why is Congress depriving itself from participation in it? It’s fine for the unwashed masses, but they will keep their own insurance coverage. Does anyone else find this hypocritical? How about the pres and congress sign up first, then when the bugs are worked out, the rest of us can enroll? Congress and Obummer need “some skin in the game.” Right now, the only skin in the game belongs to the public (that may be all we have left.)

Posted by: FlowerGirl | August 5, 2009, 4:55 pm 4:55 pm

Bob in MD –
No, not true.
The USA is not going to end because you and the minority that think like you say so.
You know why?
Because me and the people that think like me outnumber you.
PS — We adhere to all the Bill of Rights, including but not limited to the Second Amendment.

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 4:55 pm 4:55 pm

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 4:57 pm 4:57 pm

“I will attend a town hall meeting if one is in my area, not at the urging of any group, but because I want to have my voice heard…” – alldressedup
And that’s a good thing. I would encourage you to do that even though we probably don’t agree on much of anything else in this debate.
But some of you are confusing participation in a town hall meeting with an effort to prevent the meeting from being heard. The problem is not that people disagree – you can’t get a dozen random people in a room to agree about anything – there’s always another point of view.
The problem is the “stop-the-debate” movement. There are people that are not interested in hearing the voice of anyone but themselves. People that would rather cat call and shout down the democratic give-and-take of reasonable debate. People that are more interested in opening their mouths than their minds.
You have a right to protest but do you have a right to prevent me from speaking when its my turn?
So go to your town hall meeting, please. But please don’t go with the goal of disruption and destroying any chance for others to be heard.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 4:59 pm 4:59 pm

gus…perhaps people should quit eating so much and the health care problem goes away. look at the new proposed surgeon general…a picture of health?

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm

Ohhhhhhhhhhh, Bob called me a “liberal”.
And then he tells me all about the hundreds!! of middle aged and older white people that are so angry about this last election… just screaming mad they didn’t get their way, they show up and po everybody BUT their little group… smart move.
Then he mentioned “koolaid”….
Wow, Bob is original.

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 5:01 pm 5:01 pm

One of these time, the GOP-organized mob will actually assault somebody if they haven’t already.

Posted by: JAB | August 5, 2009, 5:02 pm 5:02 pm

OB-Wan22
The problem has been the democrats and liberals stopping the debate, that is why we are at our town hall meetings…
Funny, isn’t it…A tool from the liberal tool box, in the hands of conservatives, makes liberals angry…hahaha
Please….LISTEN….After that, return to normal….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 5:05 pm 5:05 pm

OB-Wan, but isn’t that being hypocritical? Republican and conservative independents are being told to shut up, that their views were rejected in the last election, etc. etc – and those are approximate quotes from actual politicians. And liberal leaning individuals are lecturing people who have no party affiliation or Republicans (I’m independent…fiscal conservatism far outweighs my social liberalism) on quashing the argument and the debate? No qualms with you, but you can’t accuse Republicans of doing such things when the liberals and Democrats are doing the exact same thing, if not worse.

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 5:06 pm 5:06 pm

Check out Patriot Hearts Network. Citizens Grand Jury (considered 4th Branch of Govt as specified in US Constitution) has served Congress, White House, etc. with charges of Treason for you know who and other information. This is interesting stuff and very historic but is not being reported by any of the mainstream media. Citizen Journalists are documenting this historic activity instead.

Posted by: WeThePeople | August 5, 2009, 5:08 pm 5:08 pm

Dassis, demographically, this was the first election where the college age vote actually mattered. Regarding cost control…you have seen how much this will cost tax payes, no? I’m talking cost control at the CARE level, not the insurance level. Lower cost of care = lower cost of insurance. Do this in stages…lowere costs, see where it takes us, THEN look into a national insurance plan. For someone who thinks they’re so smart because they read “multiple boards,” you’ve completely missed my point that insurance providers aren’t the ones making medical care expensive…insurance for everyone is not the answer, cost control is.
*********
I did not miss your point. I was referring to HEALTH CARE COSTS, not insurance costs.
There is a great deal of language in the various versions of bills that directly address HEALTH cost.
There is NO national insurance plan being proposed (at this time — some would like to see “single payer” come at a later time… that’s another issue).
What is being proposed is a Public Option in order for those individuals that CHOOSE it to be insured. This would be administered by the government — a valid debate is how well it would be administered, but that is also another debate.
I totally understand your stance that lowering health costs is imperative and that has been stated over and over by President Obama, have you even listened?
While I agree with you about the actual care costs — I am a realist. Insurance is not going to be eliminated from the equation. It is a very powerful industry (note how difficult it is to get them to give up ANY ground, much less ALL of it) — and people KNOW what it is. So, on the idea of keeping the “devil” we know, rather than the “devil” we don’t know… it would be very difficult to convince just the two houses of Congress, the representatives of the people to jump off that cliff.
As for the cost to the taxpayers — where is your data? Since no final bill has been written, there is no definitive answer to date.

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm

“OB-Wan, you have valid points, but why should we throw tax payer money away like we have been with Medicare and Medicaid?” – annoyed
Have you talked to anyone who gets Medicare/caid? There are some horror stories like Aaron’s. Not to be cruel but there are going to be horror stories no matter what system we go with. Nothing is perfect – not government programs nor free markets.
But I think you will find that on the whole Mericare/caid is a wildly popular program with its members. That the record of cost containment is far better than that of private policies. And there is an increasing emphasis on preventive care. Check out independant sources and ask around among the senior population.
There are failures and the failures are tragic, but what do you think is the comparitive customer satisfaction levels for Medicare/caid vs. private insurance?

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 5:20 pm 5:20 pm

dasis…we have all listened to obama about health care and cost but then the facts get in the way. gietner, summers and leading economists and the cbo say the numbers dont add up without TAXING THE MIDDLE CLASS.WHO IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH?

Posted by: catman | August 5, 2009, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm

catman………
Let me say this ONE MORE TIME.
There is NO FINAL BILL. Therefore all the cost analysis numbers are SPECULATIVE.
Nobody is lying about the numbers.
I say Mr. Geithner and Mr. Summers have their opinions — their boss obviously respects them and allows them to speak freely. But he (the President) is the boss… meaning if he says no tax on the middle class, then their assertions that “nothing is off the table” become moot points. Capeche?
As for CBO numbers — they are a big thing these days, aren’t they?
Well, when there is an actual FINAL BILL, I’ll be curious what they have to say — until then, I’ll wait to see what Congress offers as legislation.

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 5:35 pm 5:35 pm

“The problem has been the democrats and liberals stopping the debate, that is why we are at our town hall meetings…” – Bob in MD
“our town hall meetings”? Let me get this straight. You’re saying the Republicans are holding these meetings? That conservatives or independents are holding them? That the insurance companies are holding them?
No, the administration is sponsering them so they can inform and persuade. They want input from everyone, but their main goal is to try to give out information without the filter of MSM.
If you run a search for “health care town meetings” you will NOT find a list of meetings being disrupted by liberal extremists – not even on FauxNews.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm

dassis
Seems like you want to wait until the final bill is out an debate after, like a good sheeple…
Intelligent people want to debate on how we want the bill written, like good Americans should….
It is funny that confuses you….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 5:41 pm 5:41 pm

Bob…
Obama said in 2003 — that he favored a single payer system, this is true.
Well, it isn’t 2003 anymore.
I know I’ve changed my mind on a lot of things over my lifetime, maybe because I got more or better information, maybe just because it was personally expedient, many reasons…
I don’t expect my elected representatives to be any different than me.
*****
You can have your opinion and say all you want, that is a wonderful thing about our beloved country. However, it won’t change the simple fact that you are among a minority in a country with majority rule.
I hope you have a very lovely evening.
God Bless America
and goodnight all

Posted by: dassis | August 5, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm

OB-Wan222
“You do know that half of all businesses fail in the first two years, right? So even if we’re generous and assume that the remaining businesses that haven’t shut their doors are successful – then that’s a 50% success rate. Does that sound efficient to you?”
Well if a business fails it fails, or at least it should but government is throwing money down those rat holes now to so they don’t, but if government fails the just take more of our money.
“But do you really believe that your family would have done any better in the tender mercies of the insurance industry. That’s a hypothetical question because its clear that you probably couldn’t have gotten insurance at any price.”
Probably not but to tell you the truth if I’m getting bent over a barrell and screwed, I don’t really care who is standing behind me. But I care a lot when the government keeps stealing more and more of my money to pay for it. If some company won’t give me insurance and I die well at least they didn’t get anything from me. But the government has been screwing me all my life and I got no more to give.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm

OB-Wan22
What is this FauxNews, ABC, NBC, CBS? OR all of the above….LOL

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm

“It was working but then the constitution got chucked out the window…” – Aaron
As someone once said – There you go again.
Boy, it sure is something. I never thought I would see the day in this country that people would scream about the constitution when talking about health care but when warrentless wiretaps are being done and arbitrary indefinate detention of American citizens without legal recourse is being done than all they say is “Give us more!”
How sad.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 5:44 pm 5:44 pm

Bob in MD:
I’m still waiting for a reference citation to an outline of the Republican health plan proposal.
I’m also interested in more on the conservative/GOP backing of the Cleveland Clinic model.
[I googled 'Koolaid', but my questions still were'nt answered]

Posted by: gus amaral | August 5, 2009, 5:54 pm 5:54 pm

gus…
All this koolaid from a self proclaimed expert on the Cleveland Clinic system….hmmmmm
It makes too much sense for a non single payer system, doesn’t it…..

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 5:59 pm 5:59 pm

OB-Wan222
“Boy, it sure is something. I never thought I would see the day in this country that people would scream about the constitution when talking about health care but when warrentless wiretaps are being done and arbitrary indefinate detention of American citizens without legal recourse is being done than all they say is “Give us more!”
Actually we were not discussing that but since you bring it up, I believe that NDAA 2007 & MCA 2006, and other Bush acts were constitutional travesties. But thank you for making my point about the loss of the constitution. I want government out of my life don’t you get that. I don’t trust the government because it has been opperating outside the constitution for quite some time now. I don’t trust any of them, not Bush not Chaney, not Obama none of them. They’re all power hungry elitists who want too control every aspect of my life. I trust Biden though, he’s too stupid to be sneaky.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 6:02 pm 6:02 pm

==========================
=
The last thing Democrat representatives want to do is hear from the citizens they are supposed to represent.
=
==========================

Posted by: N Waff | August 5, 2009, 6:12 pm 6:12 pm

Dassis,
I work in finance, and when I read a report on a company that interests me for whatever reason or another, I look at their balance sheet. I look what they plan to do for the year. Before making any decision in whether or not to steer an investor in that direction or invest myself, I look at whether or not the company has clear plans as to what they’re doing. I can handle a loss if it makes sense in the end (for instance, I bought some BAC at 7.00, it dropped to 3ish, now it’s 16.5 b/c of the target and potential). In the case of government run health care, whether it’s insurance or anything, I see a black hole of tax payer money. I see wasteful spending, I see incorrect claims, and abused claims. I see higher taxes for EVERYONE. There’s no solid data to support my claims, but there’s absolutely no data to support claims. If anything, the inefficiencies and wasted money of ss, medicare, and medicaid should be sufficient reason for congress to say ‘no.’ They need to fix those before they go on. The problems with the health care industry is the cost, period. Insurance will not go away, but the cost can be lowered. If the cost of administering care is lowered, then the cost of insurance goes down. Period. While there are pieces of the bill geared towards this, that should be the ONLY goal of this health care bill, to lower costs, because obviously, it would be years before this system could be implemented – this administraion can pass an 800 billion dollar bill, but they can’t get road construction projects started – and you think they can implement a health care system during a recession? Please. Be realistic.
Obi-Wan, no, I haven’t heard many complaints about medicare and medicaid, but I know it doesn’t work. I know it’s abused by those that don’t need it and abused by some care providers. There’s been a few different stories come out where greedy doctors submit false claims when no care is given. There isn’t enough money to successful fund this so it works properly. Yes, medicare and medicaid work for the most part, but so does the private sector options. Again, cut costs. Period. As I said, I’ve come to grips that the money I’ve paid into social security I will never see – why should I pay into another black hole? Ax all three programs and come up with something smart. Social security should have been privatized like state 529 accounts – at least then the money paid in means something. I’d much rather have the $800 they pull from my check for social security go into my IRA or 401k…

Posted by: annoyed | August 5, 2009, 6:18 pm 6:18 pm

“I trust Biden though, he’s too stupid to be sneaky.” – Aaron
Ha! That’s where he’s got you all fooled.
Have you ever seen “I, Claudius”? It’s an excellent BBC mini-series from the 70′s about a member of the royal family of the Roman empire that manages to survive and eventually become Emperor through years of pretending to be too feeble-minded to be a threat to anyone. (Highly recommended BTW, even though it’s 11 hours long its full of murder, intrigue and suspense.)
LOL, well, Biden is almost there.

Posted by: OB-Wan222 | August 5, 2009, 6:21 pm 6:21 pm

“Ha! That’s where he’s got you all fooled.”
I may have to grant you that one OB-Wan222. LOL I think they’ve all got us fooled.

Posted by: Aaron | August 5, 2009, 7:05 pm 7:05 pm

My fear is that these stage-managed mini-riots will finally eventuate in violence. We all know they are GOP-organized using corporation-financed web sites which script what the people yell. It is a technique that the Republicans have used since 2000. The problem is that these are already verging on violent confrontations. This world is too violent as it is. We don’t need the GOP and the big insurers and health care corporations adding to the violence.

Posted by: CCC | August 5, 2009, 8:13 pm 8:13 pm

These people are not staged by the Republicans, boy you are really closed minded. Thats because you do not get both sides of the story. The majority of Americans do not like where any of this is going. Linda Douglas comes on TV dening government run health care is going to be there for only people that want it & that those of us who have health care will be able to keep it. Well, we are not that stupid. Everyone knows that private insurance will not be able to compete with government run health care & will go out of business. Ms. Douglas is twisting the truth & the videos.

Posted by: wgep | August 5, 2009, 8:14 pm 8:14 pm

Obama tried to quickly shove this health care reform through congress before anyone could read the bill. As one protestor said, it took Obama longer to select a dog for his girls than it took for him to push health care reform. If you’re happy with your current health insurance, you will lose it 5 yrs after the health reform bill becomes law. If you don’t have private health insurance when it becomes law, you will be prohibited from buying private insurance afterwards. Your only option will be the public option. If you lose your employer health insurance you will also have to choose the public option. People 65 years and older will have to meet with government appointed counselors every 5 years to discuss end of life decisions. Read the bill. Also, the Obama administration sent out a letter asking supporters to forward “fishy” sounding emails so that they can correct the “disinformation”. Sounds like they’re trying to stifle freedom of speech.

Posted by: grannysunni | August 5, 2009, 8:49 pm 8:49 pm

CCC
Please elaborate on the Republican riots of 2000..I must have missed that, and I used to watch ABC then….LOL
I have fear of the democrats at these rallies speaking out against the health care scheme…They have demonstrated a propensity for real violence, as we see time and time again at the G8 summits and peta and green peace, anti war, black panthers and on and on and on….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 5, 2009, 9:07 pm 9:07 pm

All Americans have a voice! Who is Obama or the White House to silence them. Dems and Republicans alike have serious concerns about this issue of healthcare reform. I’ve been insulted to know that this President doesn’t even want to know what Americans are thinking. Why are these concerned citizens now considered to be radicals…what about Acorn…the real radicals who receive our tax dollars to create dissruptions and dispurse funds illegally daily!

Posted by: claimAmericaBack | August 5, 2009, 10:31 pm 10:31 pm

They are calling people who are fed up with big gov’t “MOB” like.
This same White House (A.G.) dropped charges against the Black Panthers who illegallly stood outside polling places and intimidated people who were going in to vote.

Posted by: Roman | August 5, 2009, 10:46 pm 10:46 pm

We are not staged by anyone. We are free thinking people.
DEMS give ACRON tax payers money to win elections for them.

Posted by: Roman | August 5, 2009, 10:54 pm 10:54 pm

The GOP can’t compete, they haven’t offered us any solutions to anything that matters…. so what have the GOP given us to help us or is it to help tear us down, well! let’s see…the birthers…the Mob mentality..No..the he is a rasict rant…the we have a plan but never producing one….the they are Socialist rant….but the question is what have the Republican done lately, what have they brought to the table, where are the solutions-solutions-solutions.. truth is, they have none..They can’t compete.

Posted by: gman | August 5, 2009, 11:10 pm 11:10 pm

The GOP are losers, they can’t compete, they have no solution to offer our changing world,why? because they are unable to compete, where are the solutions, bring it to the table…all they have given us is misery…the birthers….the socialist rant…the Mob Mentality…the Racist Rant…they have layed out no solutions,ideals, orleadership, why? because they can’t compete, they are the C students who didn’t do their homework, and copied the D students work, which mean they both got an F, Republicans are unable to compete in the 21 Century.

Posted by: gman | August 5, 2009, 11:54 pm 11:54 pm

Wow, the economic IQ of the ObamaCare posters here is astoundingly low. Let me spell it out for you: ObamaCare’s goal is a single payer system,I.E. no competition. Our current system takes care of peoples needs, even though there is a profit, because there is competition. Competition is NOT socially evil. Why? Because it rewards those that provide for peoples needs for the lowest price. Competion also provides for free(paid by the private sector) innovation. ObamaCare’s ultimate goal is to do away with all that. The American people are waking up and realizing this.

Posted by: lakelevel | August 6, 2009, 12:11 am 12:11 am

I AM JUST AN ORDINARY AMERICAN. TWO CHILDREN AND FOUR GRANDCHILDREN HAVE WORKED ALL MY LIFE SINCE I WAS THIRTEEN. I DISAGREE WITH OBAMAS HEALTH PLAN AND GUESS WHAT MY YOUNGEST SON HAS NO INSURANCE.

Posted by: peg | August 6, 2009, 12:44 am 12:44 am

================================
=
Those Democrats would make great Representatives if it weren’t for all those darn citizens
=
================================

Posted by: N Waff | August 6, 2009, 12:46 am 12:46 am

The crap that rained down on Bush daily
…ABC clapping gleefully. Now, we
must rethink trying to destroy a pres-
ident. It’s not “good” for the count-
ry. A uniter that is woefully dividing
us cannot be given a failing grade
even though he is failing on the stage
as we watch. He,(and YOU) are too
big to fail. Peeps is catching on.
Townhalls, dontcha know.

Posted by: Trajan | August 6, 2009, 1:46 am 1:46 am

“The White House and its allies can be plenty loud, but all we’ll hear may be the shouting.”
What a bunch of hooey. The Dems think they are not being heard? Obama is the President for God’s sakes! He is on TV each and every day and has every major network in his pocket as evidenced by his last press conference where he went straight to the top to convince the nets to commit to air time. He has the Obamaphiles ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN clamoring at his feet like he is Christ arisen! If he feels he isn’t being heard, then he must not be saying anything!

Posted by: conversefive | August 6, 2009, 4:18 am 4:18 am

There isn’t anything grass root about these mobs interrupting these town hall meeting. Just look at Fox News or listen to talk radio they are telling them to go out and interrupted these meeting. And the debate isn’t about heath care anyway.

Posted by: Mdunson | August 6, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am

I enjoy the registered democrats at the town hall meetings openely questioning their fellow democrats….Theyhave good questions….ones that go unanswered, as usual…
Funny, I wonder if they are a part of the ‘mob’ in the eyes of the liberals here?
obama’s disinformation campaign will fail as Americans come to see the facees of the ‘mob’…….

Posted by: Bob in MD | August 6, 2009, 10:39 am 10:39 am

Wake up ABC, your bias is disturbing….
You are the only one of the alphabet channels that even stands a chance…..
You report and we will decide….

Posted by: Bib in MD | August 6, 2009, 8:36 pm 8:36 pm

Angie in PA., Did you know that the labor unions donated $60 million to Obama’s campaign? Did you know that the leader of the services union that wears the purple shirts are this leader’s members? Did you know this leader braggs about meeting with O in the Whitehouse at least once a week? Did you know that that a mmber of this union was ARRESTED for ASSULTING a disabled man at one protest? Did you know that violence has broken out since the Whitehouse called for ‘doubling up against the ‘protesters’? Oh and Angie did you know LOBBIESTs helped to WRITE this bill? Angie you are severely uninformed. I am not influenced by the insurance companies- I don’t even have insurance!

Posted by: Mary | August 10, 2009, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm

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The Note: Mob Rules: Dems Build Up Opponents to Tear Them Down

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