By Caitlin Taylor

Aug 6, 2009 8:03am

The Note: Summer Heat — Shouting It Out Over Health Care

By RICK KLEIN If the first 100 days was about the arrival of hope, the second 100 days has been about how to shout it out of the building. We’re now at the point where rudeness rules the debate — where both sides are shouting, and not a lot of listening is going on. National discussion, meet national mayhem. Yes, it’s August, but health care reform is going to require a lower temperature. How’s your summer going? If you’re Judge Sonia Sotomayor, it’s going to be getting much better after Thursday. If you’re former President Bill Clinton, it just got a whole lot better after Wednesday. If you’re former Rep. William Jefferson, it just got a whole lot worse. If you’re a Democratic lawmaker, it’s going to be noisy and nasty. (And these next four weeks will depend a whole lot on these next two days.) And if you’re a Republican, you’re watching President Obama reach the realm of mere political mortals. A major national poll has the president’s job approval at 50 — yes, five-oh. From Quinnipiac: “After 199 days in office, President Barack Obama has a 50-42 percent job approval rating from American voters, down from 57-33 percent July 2 to its lowest level since Inauguration Day, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Voters disapprove 49-45 percent of the way the President is handling the economy and disapprove 52-39 percent of the way he is handling health care, but approve 52-38 percent of the way he is handling foreign policy.” New CNN numbers have his approval rating at 56: “As President Barack Obama approaches 200 days in the White House, a new national poll suggests his approval rating has dropped 10 points since the 100-day mark in April.” (And that’s 20 points in six months.) In the meantime — something we haven’t seen in a while in the health care debate: optimism. We’re now at the point where expectations for progress are such that any movement out of the Finance Committee will be hailed as a major achievement, even as that panel strays from President Obama’s stated goals. (Public option, anyone?) Movement is the White House goal, and this is the kind of meeting we wouldn’t know about unless they’re close: “The six Senate Finance Committee members who have been holed up in closed-door negotiations for weeks, trying to find middle ground on health care reform, will travel to the White House to meet with President Obama on Thursday,” ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf reports. We feel like we’ve read this headline this before, but this time for real (maybe): “Senate negotiators are inching toward bipartisan agreement on a health-care plan that seeks middle ground on some of the thorniest issues facing Congress, offering the fragile outlines of a legislative consensus even as the political battle over reform intensifies outside Washington,” Shailagh Murray and Lori Montgomery write in The Washington Post. “Still, as the six senators continue their talks, the political debate over health-care reform has become increasingly polarized. Liberal Democrats are incensed that the Finance Committee has rejected a government-run health insurance plan in favor of a network of member-owned cooperatives — a needless concession, they believe, given the Democrats’ 60-vote majority in the Senate. Meanwhile, many Republicans view blocking health-care reform as a smart political strategy that will help their party draw a sharp line with congressional Democrats in the 2010 elections,” they write. “Call me an optimist, in spite of all the evidence,” Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., said Wednesday, per The New York Times’ David M. Herszenhorn and Robert Pear. “But I think the chances are better than 50-50 that we’ll get this done.” (That’s an optimist?) A good handicapping: “Just saying, ‘Look, we don’t have a bill yet’ leaves the field to those who want to accuse us of killing older people and nationalizing health care with a government-run plan,” said Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn. How about these prospects? “At some point, sometime in September, we are just going to have to make an assessment” about continuing the quest for bipartisanship, the president said Wednesday. Speaking of optimism: “President Barack Obama is no longer shaping the public dialogue on health-care reform. Instead, he is losing control of his agenda and resorting to rhetorical tricks and evasions,” Karl Rove writes in his Wall Street Journal column. “If some version of ObamaCare is passed, the president will break his tax pledge several more times while adding trillions to the deficit, dismantling the best elements of our health-care system and slashing Medicare by hundreds of billions of dollars.” Handling the constituencies: “Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion,” David D. Kirkpatrick reports in The New York Times. “The new attention to the agreement could prove embarrassing to the White House, which has sought to keep lobbyists at a distance, including by refusing to hire them to work in the administration. The White House commitment to the deal with the drug industry may also irk some of the administration’s Congressional allies who have an eye on drug companies’ profits as they search for ways to pay for the $1 trillion cost of the health legislation.” It’s about to get louder. The RNC Thursday is launching radio ads (complete with a funny voice and sound effects) targeting four Blue Dog House members who voted for the health care bill — and, per the ad, supported “Nancy Pelosi’s radical big government health care plan” in the Energy and Commerce Committee. “He folded like a lawn chair,” the voice-over says. “He flipped. He flopped. He rolled over.” Not that it isn’t loud enough already: “The Rockwellian ideal of neighbors gathering to discuss community issues in a neighborly way is gone, replaced by quarrelsome masses hollering questions downloaded from activist websites, as video cameras record every word of the squirming lawmaker’s response,” The Boston Globe’s Lisa Wangsness reports. “There were no lobbyist-funded buses in the parking lot of Mardela Middle and High School on Tuesday evening, and the hundreds of Eastern Maryland residents who packed the school’s auditorium loudly refuted the notion that their anger over the Democrats’ health care reform plans is ‘manufactured,’ ” ABC’s Steven Portnoy reports. Plenty to deal with: “Representative Tom Perriello said he was approached by two senior citizens who were trembling with fear. The source of their terror, he said, was their belief that President Barack Obama supports euthanasia for the elderly,” Bloomberg’s Heidi Przybyla reports. “An unruly Little Rock crowd heckled and shouted at two Arkansas Democratic congressmen Wednesday, accusing them of supporting a government-backed health plan that would take away Americans’ personal choice and freedom,” the AP’s Jill Zeman Bleed reports. “At one point, U.S. Rep. Mike Ross sat with his head in his hands while the crowd shouted.” “Much of the fiercest opposition has been fanned by talk radio and conservative advocacy groups. But the bitter intensity is a pointed reminder of how hard it will be for Democrats to sell voters on a broad reworking of the healthcare system, even though they hold commanding majorities in the House and Senate,” The Los Angeles Times’ Janet Hook reports. “The earth-scorching August firefight over health care has given rise to questions about the point at which stifling civil discussion damages the democratic process,” CQ’s Jonathan Allen reports. “All across the country, conservative opponents are clamoring to disrupt town-hall meetings about the proposed overhaul of the nation’s health care system, using GOP-generated talking points and stalking tactics to shout down Democratic congressmen who attempt to explain the plan.” Labor gets back in the action. From the memo going out Thursday morning from AFL-CIO President John Sweeney: “The question for us is: will we let them make health care ‘Obama’s Waterloo’ or will we make it the next big step in our march to Turn Around America? August will tell! And that’s why we’re launching a ‘Thirty Day Campaign’ in support of the President’s health reform proposal. I urge you to commit to this campaign, just as you have to our push for the Employee Free Choice Act!” Pre-recess positioning: “Senate Republicans believe the week before the break is serving their goals well. They argue that while they are holding tele-town-hall meetings with voters back home on health care, Senate Democrats have been focused on trying to convince the Capitol Hill press corps that the Republicans are standing in the way of passing a bill,” Roll Call’s David M. Drucker reports. President Obama campaigns Thursday evening with Virginia gubernatorial candidate Creigh Deeds — as polls in the state show the president’s standing slipping. Per the Richmond Times Dispatch: “Public Policy Polling of Raleigh, N.C., reports that 51 percent of Virginia voters disapprove of Obama’s job performance, while 42 percent approve. Seven percent are not sure.” (Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., is our guest on “Top Line” Thursday — live at noon ET, streaming at ABCNews.com.) Judge Sotomayor’s confirmation vote is scheduled for 3 pm ET Thursday — and the political recriminations are scheduled for 3:01. (Will she get more than or fewer than 30 no votes?) Senators Kit Bond, R-Mo., and Judd Gregg, R-N.H., make it eight and counting Republican “yes” votes (isn’t retirement liberating?). “Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor won more GOP support in her drive toward near-certain Senate confirmation Thursday as the first Hispanic justice, even as a growing chorus of Republicans called her unfit for the bench,” USA Today’s Kathy Kiely reports. Looking ahead: “Republicans say the show of party unity will discourage Mr. Obama from choosing a more liberal candidate in future picks and that the arguments they developed against Judge Sotomayor set a precedent for rejecting what they see as ‘activist’ judges,” The Wall Street Journal’s Kristina Peterson reports. About those recriminations: “When you say that such a person with such ability is not going to receive the support, it says to the Hispanic community that this is a party that has a real challenge in finding ways to be supportive of this community,” Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., said on ABCNews.com’s “Top Line” Wednesday. Counters Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas: “I think that’s just Democratic cheerleading,” Cornyn said, per ABC’s David Chalian. Democratic teamwork: “All the diplomacy of the Obama administration failed to move North Korean leader Kim Jong Il to release two American journalists. In the end, it was the reclusive tyrant’s desire to be seen with former president Bill Clinton that created a deal to let them go free,” per ABC’s Kirit Radia, Sunlen Miller, and Yunji de Nies. How things work: “They need a prop. This was the prop,” former US envoy Jack Pritchard tells ABC’s Jake Tapper. “This is a propaganda success for Kim Jong Il and the North Korean regime,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said on “Good Morning America” Thursday. Tapper reports: “A source briefed on their meeting tells ABC News that when the subject of North Korea’s nuclear program was raised — almost certainly by Kim Jong Il — former President Bill Clinton conveyed to the North Korean leader the same message he tried to express throughout the 90s: that North Korea’s nuclear program will not make that country safer and more secure, but rather will continue to lead to further international isolation.” As for the team: “For their TV moment on Wednesday, Prince Albert and the Big Dog played it as though the grudges were gone and they liked each other again,” the New York Daily News’ Richard Sisk reports. “What we do know is that Democrats are one big happy family for the moment,” Jill Lawrence writes for Politics Daily. “Finally we get two for the price of one,” Margaret Carlson writes in her Bloomberg News column. The New York Times’ Adam Nagourney: “Mr. Clinton and Mr. Gore did not linger together in public on Wednesday. They have had relatively little contact after their unhappy parting nearly nine years ago, according to associates of the two men. Still, over eight years, they have both built post-White House identities and reputations that seem to have left them at peace with their shared pasts and, it would seem, with each other.” New role for Bill Clinton? “There will probably be other things like this that he can do,” Al From, the founder and former head of the Democratic Leadership Council, tells ABC. Book time for former Gov. Mitt Romney, R-Mass.: “Mitt Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts and an early likely contender for the 2012 Republican nomination for President, has signed a deal with St. Martin’s Press to publish his book next March,” The New York Times’ Motoko Rich reports. “Titled ‘No Apology: The Case for American Greatness,’ the book outlines what appears to be a campaign platform: Mr. Romney’s views on how to create a stronger economy, military and families, and his vision on jobs, education, health care, energy and citizenship.” Speech time for Gov. Tim Pawlenty, R-Minn.: He’s on for the Republican Party of Florida’s Statesman’s Dinner August 22, and the 2009 Leading Ohio Dinner in September, Real Clear Politics reports.
The Kicker: “People say they don’t spend a lot of time together — well, they live in different cities.” — Mike Feldman, Democratic strategist, on the relationship between Bill Clinton and Al Gore. “His game is severely handicapped, as is mine.” — White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, to Time’s Michael Scherer, on the presidential golf game.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/

User Comments

No one questions how these shouting idiots could possibly represent a majority of Americans when polls indicate 50% support Obama’s agenda and 70% do want some sort of health care reform.

Posted by: matt | August 6, 2009, 8:36 am 8:36 am

It’s sad to see so many suckers shilling for insurance companies & pharma without even realizing what they’re doing. They scream “don’t you dare nationalize medicine, you socialist” in one breath and then yell “and keep your hands off my Medicare” in the next breath. If you’re going to sell out for the RNC and big business medicine, at least get paid for your “work.”

Posted by: Reality Check | August 6, 2009, 8:42 am 8:42 am

Just remember, anyone who does not toe the line with the WH will be labelled a ‘right wing extremist’. They are even encouraging people to send ‘fishy’ emails on healthcare to the WH for logging and rebuttal. Isn’t that nice?

Posted by: Bill | August 6, 2009, 8:53 am 8:53 am

Matt Said {{It’s sad to see so many suckers shilling for insurance companies & pharma without even realizing what they’re doing. They scream “don’t you dare nationalize medicine, you socialist” in one breath and then yell “and keep your hands off my Medicare” in the next breath. If you’re going to sell out for the RNC and big business medicine, at least get paid for your “work.”}}
Think about it. “Welfare is for Commies!” “Where is my blasted Farm Subsidy Check!” Similarities are fun.

Posted by: Paul | August 6, 2009, 9:18 am 9:18 am

Both sides are shouting? Really? I haven’t seen any counter yelling at those town meetings, but then, you msm, being the “reporters,” and all, you must have seen more than me.
Question: if a raving manic runs up to you on the street, yelling lies in your face, and you yell back, are you “both shouting?”

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 9:19 am 9:19 am

If people shout and fall in the woods, and no one else is there, does it make a sound?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 9:30 am 9:30 am

Yeah insurance has its problems like any other business. But wake up ye saints and priesthood of the great ONE Obama, saviour of the world of man. Do you really want the Government taking care of you? Is that what you really want? How come he won’t give you or take on the same care he and the senate receives, not to mention take on the care he is proposing? Remember this is the same Government that spends $100 on a toilet seat! It will now be Govt spends $100 on a needle!

Posted by: 1MANA55 | August 6, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am

If the “orchestrated underground resistance” at the town hall meetings is wrong, then tell me; ACORN is OK, Panthers Party OK, Code Pink, OK – freedom of speech is freedom of speech. If this were a republican adminsitration challenging disention, it would be treaso.

Posted by: jamescbuilder | August 6, 2009, 9:38 am 9:38 am

“euthanasia for the elderly”, they say?
Why would any SANE person or public platform insinuate such a thing?
In the U.S., most of us follow the constitution of law [I know, except Cheney] and last I knew, there are no ammendments added for authority to knock off Grandma…

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 9:39 am 9:39 am

If 45 million Americans are dead set against this proposal, then maybe the congressmen should go back to the drawing board.

Posted by: Jeff | August 6, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am

For you people saying that we are supporting the insurance companies if we oppose Obama care, ARE YOU SERIOUS???? I own a small business and pay a small fortune in insurance every year. The last thing I would support is somthing to help insurance companies. Insurance companies and hospitals are in favor of this bill because it helps them profit more. Are you people really that niave????

Posted by: billy bob | August 6, 2009, 9:43 am 9:43 am

1MANNA55:
The government already ‘takes care’ of the military, federal employees, all people over 65 and the disabled.
Ask anyone that has medical coverage under these systems in the US [millions of people].
get informed. argue REAL points.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 9:43 am 9:43 am

If the Obama health plan is really good-Why has congress exempted themselves from joing it? Do they deserve a better plan than taxpayers? Until the politicians will will run healthcare are required to join, I cannot support their efforts to force me to join.

Posted by: JimMetcalf | August 6, 2009, 9:48 am 9:48 am

1MANA55
Your post makes no sense. On the one hand you argue that healthcare reform means the “government will take care of you”, and that’s bad, on the other hand you complain the government won’t take care you well enough, so lets not have a public option at all. How are the insurance companies, who decide who and what services they will cover, soley based on profit, taking better care of our healthcare system, than a government you trust to make sure there isn’t lead in your drinking water?

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am

Posted by: gus amaral | Aug 6, 2009 9:39:20 AM—–So in your own words please explain to us all how this radical govt healthcare takeover makes sense….and yes rationing of care is pretty much a death sentence with certain medical issues at certain ages and that what it relates to. Maybe you have heard of cancer?

Posted by: jw1824 | August 6, 2009, 9:57 am 9:57 am

jw1824, JimMetcalf, billy bob, PotatoeGater22 |
I recommend you read the excellent article over on CBS.com that addresses common healthcare reform myths: that healthcare reform is a “government takeover”, that care will be rationed, that grannies will be euthanized. These are myths, i.e. they are not true, i.e. they are lies. There is a debate to be had on healthcare reform, but that debate can’t happened if people don’t understand what is really being proposed.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am

i urge EVERYONE to email and offer their personal email address as someone who is outraged over the nonsense of rounding up names of people who are assembling and speaking out. the white house needs to hear from millions – that threatening those who assemble, and have an opinion – or who disagree with this administration will not be tolerated. do it now – tell friends to do it – i did. this is an unbelievably dangerous precedent that cannot be tolerated ina free society by their government.

Posted by: larry | August 6, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am

You say insurance companies are against this bill? Well than how come my sister who pays claims for an insurance company keeps getting emails (from the company) about joining groups to promote this bill. They are all for it! everyday she gets something in her inbox about supporting this bill. She deletes them. Hope she doesn’t get fired. Do you think Obama has something worked out with this company? Maybe they’ll be the company the government picks to insure the people. Has anyone heard what companies the government will use? Can’t believe an insurance company would push their employees so hard to support this bill if there wasn’t something in it for them. Obama can’t be against insurance companies too much. They probably were big contributers to his campagine.

Posted by: notanobamafan | August 6, 2009, 10:12 am 10:12 am

CNN and CBS/NYTs polls are living in la la land..these organizations should be classified as terrorist groups
LMAO Obamas lastest ploy..mail me the names of those that oppose me.. LMAO@Obama..become a snitch today

Posted by: Obamas brownnosing media network | August 6, 2009, 10:14 am 10:14 am

Health care bulls— more abortion old people told to take the pill. The dems are a party of death………….

Posted by: daniel | August 6, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am

Amy B Maine: Have you actually READ the whole entire bill, or are you just listening to the “myths” and “lies” that BO’s good buddies over at CBS are telling you?
I agree with 1MANA55…if it’s not good enough for the “Prez,” then it’s not good enough for me or my family. Haven’t any of you questioned why no one in Washington DC is willing to use the same plan for themselves and their families as what they are expecting us to use??!!!? It’s hard to figure out why some of you seem so willing to just take whatever bone the government throws at you. Healthcare certainly needs a push, but not over a cliff!

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am

No one questions how these shouting idiots could possibly represent a majority of Americans when polls indicate 50% support Obama’s agenda and 70% do want some sort of health care reform.
————————————-
matt,
Like all liberal lemmings, you want to keep repeating a falsehood in hopes that people will believe the lie.
The truth is those numbers are eroding every day. The more important thing is thatr those numbers are not even close to reality when any details of the plan in congress are asked of the same people.
People want reform that does not endanger what they have. They also do not believe that what they have is not at risk because everyone involved in the process of creating this beast cannot give them straight forward answers when asked specfic questions.
Now because the American people are having the audacity to question the great liberal cause, the DNC & the administration is going to try their age old tactic of demonize the messengers.
big problem here though, the messengers are just everyday people. If you want conspiracies, try Michael Moore or Keith Olberman. It really is insulting to regular people that they are now being told if they question the goverments actions, they get labeled as “plants” and “angry mobs”.
I suppose all those polls are just contacting right-wing “plants”.

Posted by: Mike_C | August 6, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am

I haven’t softened on President Obama, he is doing a great job with all the opposition and negativity he faces. To be able to do what he did in a short time is great and if the republicans cannot see it let me remind them. He passed equal pay for women,health care for children, pay to veterans for educational purposes when they return for the war, closing of Guantanomo,loaned money to banks and got it back with a profit, helped our economy to recover, keeps his promises, restored our reputation with other countries and hopefully a health care bill. If that is not enough,let’s review what they did in 8 years. Failure of banks, economy, lying about wmd, war we did not belong in, no health care, no s.s.reform,lost respect with other nations,massive spending with nothing to show for it. At least, the spending Obama is doing is to restore the economy.

Posted by: talmag | August 6, 2009, 10:28 am 10:28 am

To – Amy B Maine…Have you read the bill? Probably not. Thats ok. Hate to tell ya but not everything you get on a website is necessarily the truth. May want to read the bill do you own research…use your brain that you were given to educate yourself. I am for healthcare reform just so you know but alot of the ideas in the HR3200 are bad. Lots of entitlements, unneccessary access by the federal govt to my records be it financial and medical, favortism to minorities for positions, taxing on idividuals who are not planning on signing up for insurance. Yes i will agree some of the myths are crap trying to sway people but this billoverall stinks. I say back to the drawing board

Posted by: jw1824 | August 6, 2009, 10:28 am 10:28 am

And the left insists that the vocal opposition is a part of the continuing right wing conspiracy. How’s that for out of touch?

Posted by: LongT | August 6, 2009, 10:32 am 10:32 am

If you call a 5 ton boulder dropping from a cliff a softening of support then yeah ABC I agree with you.

Posted by: Seymour | August 6, 2009, 10:32 am 10:32 am

Amy B Maine You may be niave enough to “trust” your goverment but thinking Americans know better.

Posted by: billy bob | August 6, 2009, 10:35 am 10:35 am

Lisa
Healthcare reform in a nutshell: Employers will be required to offer health insurance, or pay a fine. Companies making $500,000 will be exempt.
If your company offers health insurance, you will not be allowed to sign up for the public option, even if you want it. Hence, insurance companies will NOT go out of business, yet they WILL be forced to keep costs low, otherwise employers will choose to pay the fine and cancel their insurance contracts.
Currently: if you lose your job, you lose your health insurance and there is no saftey net. Our emergency rooms are crowded with uninsured people who go there for care as a last resort.
These are all facts, jack.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am

It is striking how Obama has resorted to tattle-tale tactics while the Dems are now acknowledging the sheer anger that the American people have towards this intrusion into their private medical decisions.
I do find it interesting that Senator Dodd acknowledges the notion that this bill is a national elderly genocide bill. It proves that the points of the people are being heard. The question now is to see if the Congress covers it’s ears and does what it wants.
If that happens, then 2010 will be a Republican landslide and Obama’s presidency will be a footnote in history and nothing more.
The Democrats are making the extraordinary mistake of assuming that we, the American People, as yearning for a new workers and medical paradise… They are wrong. We only want government that is just, smaller and lives within it’s means.
We want government that does not interfere in our lives and we want government that pays attention to our military and security needs while advancing our interests and traditions as a nation.
What could be so hard about that?

Posted by: Jon | August 6, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am

Mike_C
No one will ever argue there aren’t alot of really stupid people out there. I know, I work with some of them. Doesn’t take much to manipulate them into believing health reform means “taking away their freedom.” These are the same ones I see taking the elevator instead of the stairs, stuffing their faces with white bread and beer, and going out for a smoke every three hours. But, by golly, they don’t want anyone touching our health care system.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 10:46 am 10:46 am

Amy B Maine: Once again, “Jack,” I ask you: Did you read the whole, entire bill? If not, just admit it. I’ve read bits and pieces of the 1,017 page bill…enough to know that you have probably not. The only “facts” that you are stating are the same ones made by the evening news anchors. You know, BO’s good buddies.

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 10:49 am 10:49 am

No, Amy, YOU, the individual, will be required to carry health insurance, either company provided or government provided. If YOU, the individual, do not opt to pay for the coverage, then YOU, the individual will be subject to a fine of $1500 dollars.
And, yes, Amy, companies will be required to offer coverage. That is why many mom and pop businesses will be shutting down. (but, hey, what the heck…it’s just another little piece of Americana going by the wayside, right?)
IF you leave your company, and hence your coverage, then you WILL be required to buy into the government insurance. And that, eventually, will be the reason that he private insurers will go out of business.
The government will set the rules. The government will not need to make a profit. There will be no competition, and the private insurers that might have been left will be gone.
IF you leave your job and lose your coverage, there most certainly IS a safety net currently. It’s called COBRA, and is a government mandated program.
So, Jack, or amy,….those facts you stated are quite inaccurate.

Posted by: NCPilot09 | August 6, 2009, 10:52 am 10:52 am

and Amy, i find it interesting, your snide remark about there being ‘stupid people out there” (“No one will ever argue there aren’t alot of really stupid people out there. I know, I work with some of them. Doesn’t take much to manipulate them…”). Amy, just because someone disagrees with your highness, does not render them stupid of foolish. I would submit that your statement about working with some of them be ammended to ready, “I know. I go home with one every day, and see her in the mirror every morning as I primp and talk to my image of self-perfection.”)

Posted by: NCPilot09 | August 6, 2009, 10:57 am 10:57 am

posted by jw1824 | Aug 6, 2009 9:57:09 AM
____________________
I wouldn’t use the term “radical”.
To make it simple, I understand the current healthcare ‘system’ needs reform for 3 reasons:
1. too many uninsured and underinsured in the [previous] middle class. add unemployment to that, figures soar.
the recent unemployed who cannot continue out of pocket insurance costs are at risk of lose everything trying to pay for illness care.
2. quality care is diminishing. for- profit healthcare companies currently have NO incentive to provide a social good.
patient safety is a major issue–mostly due to the lack of integrative informatics, insurance underwriting and increasing cost of services. Currently there’s NO incentive in for-profit business to share database info with other competing companies.
3. The broad range of people in the U.S. are becoming unhealthier each year, [due to obesity and chronic illnesses] so costs are predicted to exponentially.
In the United States we have looked to government to provide standards to ensure the rights of all people. that’s why we have the Constitution.
Why wouldn’t we use national standards to provide standards that ensure the safety/health of our nation?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 10:57 am 10:57 am

“The government already ‘takes care’ of the military, federal employees, all people over 65 and the disabled.”
As for Government employees – the government pays a part of the premium and the employee pays part and it is a private insurance company the provides the coverage.
As for the military – the government should provide for the care of those that serve this country in the military.
And as for the 65 and over – most have paid in all their lives to this system aand most pay a preimum out of their SS and a premium for GAP insurance and prescription medications

Posted by: mj | August 6, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am

NCPilot09: Thank you, so much. I’m glad that someone out there gets it.

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 11:04 am 11:04 am

if the constitution protects your rights to bear arms, why wouldn’t we want the government to ensure we all receive adequate healthcare?
who could argue that?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:05 am 11:05 am

Obama is the biggest liar this country has ever seen in a President. The real Obama has now stood up. His promise not to raise taxes on anyone making under 250K was hot air. All you Obama freaks who swooned over this poser are going to pay up now! Obama wants almost 4.3 trillion in spending. Scary fact: If he enacted a 100% INCOME TAX on every American making over 500K, he STILL would not have enough money to fund all his new spending programs!!!!! So what does he do? He’s coming for all you middle class people! Open your wallets…Obama nees to spread the wealth around.

Posted by: Jim | August 6, 2009, 11:07 am 11:07 am

Health care bulls— more abortion old people told to take the pill. The dems are a party of death………….
Posted by: daniel | Aug 6, 2009 10:23:49 AM
_____________________
Daniel-
I didn’t realize the elderly were taking the pill, being post menopausal and all. but hey, old people need to “get it on” too.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:10 am 11:10 am

Posted by: mj | Aug 6, 2009 11:01:27 AM
mj, my sistah.
you missed the point. it’s the middle working class that need help the most.
especially as they have lost jobs.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:13 am 11:13 am

Nancy was taped saying that people attending town hall meetings were “carrying swastikas.”
abcNEWS.com has nothing on it. If a Republican said anything like this, the MSM would be on it like white on rice.
Never forget that Liberals hold complete contempt for America.

Posted by: BigEdsBlog | August 6, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am

gus amaral: No one here is arguing that this country does or does not need some sort of help when it comes to our healthcare system. We all get that. The problem, or the argument, really is all about how this bill is worded and set up. I really like my insurance, but NCPilot09 is right; if I have to change jobs, or God forbid I lose mine, then I’m automatically enrolled into the public option. No questions asked and certainly no one asking for my permission. It’s things like that in this bill that people are not aware of. I haven’t read the ENTIRE bill, but being that there are over 1,000 pages to it, coupled with the fact that most of our politicians representing THE PEOPLE have not even read it themselves, then there should be plenty to argue about, and with good reason.

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am

Medicare, Medicaid, VA, all gov’t run. All in deficits. All inefficient. Medicare Advantage, a private portion of Medicare is doing fine. Obama wants to close it.
The discussion should not be about health care reform. It should be about health care COST reform. the WH plan will do nothing for that. There is no way they can pay for it except by huge tax increases for everyone, not just “the rich”. They want to spread the misery around so that everyone’s health care is inadequate. Except for the people that ruined it.
Unless your extreme left wing, how can anyone in their right mind want government run health care. I can understand a socialist wanting this, that is the basis of their economic beliefs, government run economies. but thinking people? I just don’t get it.

Posted by: betsy | August 6, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am

We have two choices, Liberty or Tyranny. Now pick one.

Posted by: Bob | August 6, 2009, 11:20 am 11:20 am

If Medicare did not exist it couldn’t be passed in the current political environment.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am

LMAO Obamas lastest ploy..mail me the names of those that oppose me.. LMAO@Obama..become a snitch today>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No Kidding.
Isn’t this unconstitutional? Freedom of assembly/Speech? Spy on your neighbor?
Are they going to be issuing Arm Bands Next?
Seems like the News Media wants to classify people by only having the White House on TV. WHY not put on Spector? Or any of the others Senators and congressmen? They cant seem to the find any of the people that were there to interview? When did the news Media has become part of the Obama Administration?
OH I forgot you have an agenda because of people like GE getting a KICK backs. If you bribe and say the right things you get the government juice. The LIES and continual slant is becoming so obvious. Your news media is tainted beyond any measure. AWEFUL.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am

We’ve watched Pink Ladies shout and scream for years and no one says a thing. We’ve watched ACORN govt funded “community workers” mob banks and force them to make shaky loans that ultimately collapsed a healthy housing market. Come on, people.
Just because you don’t agree with the people who are angry at the approach of rationed healthcare for all doesn’t excuse your hypocrisy or justify demonizing those people.
Does this post sound “fishy”?

Posted by: amomnotamob | August 6, 2009, 11:31 am 11:31 am

Have you noticed that the ANTI Obama Health care news is buried? I mean its not front page even though there are 823,086 views of the Spector meeting and ? The news media talks about other things. Makes you wonder how Michael Jackson stayed front page for DAYS and Health care protests are being side lined. Doesnt matter if there is 1000 or 10,000 the news media wont cover it. Thanks goodness for the Internet so people can get the REAL news.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 11:35 am 11:35 am

Lisa, no that’s not right. You wouldn’t be automatically enrolled in some public option if you changed jobs. You’re being suckered in again by Hannity-Beck-driven drool. They get you every time. Put on some dramatic music, show a clause from a version of a bill that hasn’t even made it through committee, and all of a sudden America is petrified about something that is entirely disconnected from reality.

Posted by: Average Joe | August 6, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am

I am a nurse practitioner who vehemently opposes Obamacare. I know what it will do, I read the bill. Be careful what you wish for, you or your family member may have to pay the ultimate price by such a governement run system. The VA has subjected thousands to exposure of communicable disease because of lax sterilization of equipment. The postal system is losing money, and the DMV has long lines. I do not think Pelosi, Reid, Schumer or Obama has my best interest at heart, if so they should sign up for the very system they are heaping on us.

Posted by: Downwithsocialism | August 6, 2009, 11:38 am 11:38 am

Average Joe: Have you, yourself, actually read the entire bill?

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 11:38 am 11:38 am

Gus, you are spot on. PRECISELY the same tactics that the GOP and insurance companies are using NOW were used THEN (during the original debate over Medicare). And they’re the SAME tactics that were used in the 90s. It’s just the same old song & dance…Scare, fear, half-truths, innuendo. “You’re going to lose your insurance.” “The government is going to tell you when to die.” “The government is going to take away your guns. And then shoot you with them.” Etc, etc, etc.

Posted by: Reality Check | August 6, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am

Mary Landrieu has not planed a Town Hall about health care during the recess. After the THM in Reserve, La she promised to have one during the recess. She is now trying to back away from the idea. Mary is scared!

Posted by: Alex | August 6, 2009, 11:39 am 11:39 am

I have read the bill check out page 58 where they can acces to your bank account

Posted by: Downwithsocialism | August 6, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Average Joe>>>>
You wouldn’t be automatically enrolled in some public option if you changed jobs. Let me know what you think of page 16.
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
(A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first
day of Y1.
When you leave a job you drop your current health care provider. Now according to this you cant ENROLL in a new policy >>>> if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
day of Y1

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 11:42 am 11:42 am

James Madison once said, “[Congress] can make no law which will not have its full operation on themselves and their friends, as well as on the great mass of society. This has always been deemed one of the strongest bonds by which human policy can connect the rulers and the people together.”
The rulers and the people need to be connected again. Somewhere along the way we have allowed our “rulers” to believe that they are better than the people. This healthcare bill is a good example of that. Once again, if it’s not good enough for them, it’s not good enough for me.

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 11:48 am 11:48 am

Page 58 Seems like they can POKE into your account and do as they wish.
(B) be authoritative, permitting no
additions or constraints for electronic transactions,including companion guides;
(C) be comprehensive, efficient and robust, requiring minimal augmentation by paper
transactions or clarification by further communications;
‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near realtime) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific fa11
cility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;
‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims;

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 11:48 am 11:48 am

Potatoegator -
I too have government insurance coverage.
It’s a matter of perspective. I don’t mind standing in line for my medicine, because I’m thankful. Why?
Has anyone in your family lost their house, entire savings from illness care?
There’s an overpass in Providence RI where 80 unemployed people are living under, in tents. Look it up, this reality exists.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:51 am 11:51 am

Better yet, try him for civil rights discrimation for his FASCIST attempt to kill free speech and intimate voters and citizens with ordering the collection of names of people speaking out against him. This is much how Hitler and Chavez started off.
____________________
Explain how the proposed healthcare reform violates the Constitution.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 11:53 am 11:53 am

gus amaral: You may not mind standing in line NOW, but when the majority of the public is in that same line with you, how will you feel about it then? And yes, I had cancer three years ago, so I know what it’s like to lose to the healthcare system. But frankly, I don’t mind, because I’m still here. I’m not sure if I was on government-run healthcare if that would still be true…I guess if only I could have regained my status as a contributor I might be worthy of saving?

Posted by: Lisa | August 6, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am

With 34 MILLION on food stamps and jobless claims going up health care is clouding the utter failure of the stimulus. THE GDP has shrunk. The tax receipts which are the measure how healthy business are doing are WAY WAY OFF. The White House accumulating an Enemies list. You would think the PRESS would be ALL over that. BUT NO. They hang out at the water cooler and talk about American IDOL. Sad.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am

Doesn’t take much to manipulate them into believing health reform means “taking away their freedom.”
Amy,
Many of us would argue that it didn’t take much to manipulate people to vote an extremely inexperienced person into the White house.
It is all a matter of perspective my dear.
What is insulting to everyone is that the DNC & the administration want to marginalize these people for speaking their minds. The “great right-wing conspiracy” was a joke the first time, and its an insult to everyday American’s whose questions go unanswered today!
Remember, it was also an “angry mob” that broke off from England to form this great country. I wonder if the King was telling his subjects in England that the whole “uprising” in the colonies was caused by his political “adversaries” planting rabble-rousers.

Posted by: Mike_C | August 6, 2009, 11:58 am 11:58 am

Lisa
I have read the bill, can’t say I understood all the legalese, but I will attest to the fact there is no hidden rule in there that will mean the end of our civilization, as we now know it.
This reform bill mandates coverage -YES – I guess that’s you objection, but it provides a sliding scale for people who can’t pay.
You know what else is mandated? We WILL get sick and die, at some point; nature mandates that. This is why we ALL need health insurance.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 12:00 pm 12:00 pm

Somewhere along the way we have allowed our “rulers” to believe that they are better than the people. This healthcare bill is a good example of that. Once again, if it’s not good enough for them, it’s not good enough for me.
Posted by: Lisa | Aug 6, 2009 11:48:18 AM
_______________
Lisa, I agree with you. The ‘rulers’
you speak of are the insurer and pharmaceutical giants. They even buy a few congressmen at our expense.
It is time to bring the mega-wealthy down a few dollars to ensure the social good of all.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:01 pm 12:01 pm

Support is NOT softening, it is dropping like a rock (or the economy) take your choice.

Posted by: Bob | August 6, 2009, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm

I too have government insurance coverage.
It’s a matter of perspective. I don’t mind standing in line for my medicine, because I’m thankful. Why?
gus amaral >>> many die before they get serviced in other countries. You OK with that? You for Euthanasia too?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm

Lisa, there’s no such thing as a bill yet. This is a work in process. There are paragraphs that groups such as “Freedom” Watch (funded by the former head of a massive hospital chain) are extracting from proposals in order to dupe you into thinking the sky is falling and to get you screaming loud enough to kill any reform. Their efforts appear to be working.

Posted by: Average Joe | August 6, 2009, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm

Amy B Maine >>> You are being foolish. What in this bill do you think will help? It wont reduce costs (CBO said so) It will increase costs. 30 Million will go uninsured and 10′s of millions will be thrown onto the government health care. (Again CBO) What do you think you are getting by spending 1.7 trillion dollars?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Posted by: ChicagBob | Aug 6, 2009 12:06:04 PM
Dear C-B:
I’m not sure what you are asking…what countries are people dying in line?
specifics, Bob. specifics.
we can’t debate drama [unless you want to talk theatre]…
facts and specifics.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm

Lisa, there’s no such thing as a bill yet. Average Joe >>>> SO you are now ducking your previous BOGUS statements? This is H. R. 3200 the HOUSE BILL as it stands. So if they can RAM ROD it through this is what they are voting on. YOU AVERAGE JOE are DUCKING like the congressmen

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:13 pm 12:13 pm

Average Joe on page 16 of H. R. 3200
it states you cant enroll into private system IF you dont have it at the time the public options becomes available. I POSTED IT. Your comment is there is no such BILL. Well.. It exists people have read it , unlike the congressmen and drones, and you wonder WHY the support is dropping like ..

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm

NCPilot09
I think its amazing that rightwingers say the health care bill will encourage euthanesa, ration health care so people won’t get life saving services (when 40 million Americans are currently uninsured) and those who are insured can’t be denied for pre-existing conditions – and then they object to being called stupid!
As Sarah Palin would “stop making stuff up!” And you could be treated more seriously.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

I think all of you right wingers are a bunch of hypocrites. I listen to Rush and Shawn hannity cry every day. This country is a country of the PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE. You guys were in charge from 1994 to 2006 in the House and the senate. We have had control for exactly 7 months and you guys are having a conimtion fit. 7 months this guy has worked hard for this country not gone down and cleared brush. Health care is more than my house note. Yet I have still paid out over 6000. this year in deductables. Now my 21 year old college student has a heart condition. HOw long before big business drops her. Medicare doesn’t drop anybody. You people need to wake up and smell what you are shoveling. The Government is your neighbor you police officer. You. OF THE PEOPLE> YOu trust big busines who has proven to rob us blind before someone who could be your neighbor your friend. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.

Posted by: macrose | August 6, 2009, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm

There are some great posts here. One of the better blogs in recent days.
One poster mentioned earlier that the reason for all the shouting and anger is the fact that we can’t get simple questions answered in regards to this bill. I agree with that. All the e-mailing just gets me generic auto-responses from my congressmen. Remember, once it’s passed and signed, this becomes law. There are way too many harmful things in this bill to allow them to become law. I have the Bill (downloaded to my desktop). There is also a comparison tool on the kff.org website. It’s only 42 pages and does give some insight in not-so-technical terms.
Hopefully the recess rallies to be held on Aug 22 will get the message across to our representatives. We want honest answers. (I know, that’s a lot to ask.) I personally would like to know what they envision the average health care package to cost the consumer. What kinds of things would it cover and what kind of quality healthcare would they expect? If they can’t answer the basics, this thing is not ready.

Posted by: Prmby | August 6, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

Bob. specifics. we can’t debate drama [unless you want to talk theatre] facts and specifics.
>>>> Lets see your evidence its all ok is because you are OK with waiting in line. Personal experience. Correct? Thats your basis in fact? Fact is many people from Canada who have been on TV came here to get medical care. Hip Replacements and care which saved their lives. Because of rationing and long waits they would have died waiting in line. Names.. Cant recall. Remember the stories through. Look up John Stossel and Health care. He shows why the DUMB WHO are wrong. He also shows whats wrong with Canadian health care. Do I think we dont need any reform? NO. But HR3200 needs to be BURNED to ash and we need to start with real reforms.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

PotatoeGater22
Ah, the old “truth has a liberal bias” argument.
Facts are stubborn things.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

Why wouldn’t we use national standards to provide standards that ensure the safety/health of our nation?
gus amaral ,
ARE YOU ON DOPE?
the same gov’t that rakes in Mountains of money on the sale of Alcohol.
The same gov’t that pulls in huge $$$ for tobacco. Remember that one?…one of those things responsible for those high end of life costs!!!!
And the same government that was so concerned about our health….wants us to keep smoking to fund the SCHIP program!
Oh yes, they are REALLY looking out for the safety & health of the American People.
If you think its so all important to have the govt running healthcare, perhaps you need to get them out of the buisness of making money from things that kill its own citizens!

Posted by: Mike_C | August 6, 2009, 12:20 pm 12:20 pm

Amy B Maine >>>> You offer NOTHING when asked what you think will be fixed. Did you know those people could be insured for about 150 billion? Why spend 1.7 trillion. Are you wanting to insure 12 million illegal immigrants? Is that something you are willing to do as well? Currently insurance incurs that expense now because we cant deport them but we have to give them health care? How about we just deport them?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:24 pm 12:24 pm

No one said a word when acorn inforcers were at the voting booths last year. The same group that is under investigation in 22 states for “Voter
fraud” Now this same group has been empowered to be instrumental in taking the 2010 population count.
You don’t think moving the count around for re-districting is possible, is it?
So let’s not get to excited about the expression of frustration, based on:
Pass the bill without reading it
Be less than candid with those it will effect.
Exemption for law makers. This is the most provocative.
Americans don’t need to know attitude.
No attempt to clearly out line, the major provisions – example ; You can keep your present coverage. What is hidden is if your policy is changed for ANY reason, you loose.
obama has whacked the “Hornets Nest”

Posted by: ZK | August 6, 2009, 12:25 pm 12:25 pm

Facts are stubborn things.Amy B Maine >>>> What facts do you offer Amy? You have posted NOTHING. You sound just like Obama babbling.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:26 pm 12:26 pm

Mike_C
Under the currently system, YOUR EMPLOYER determines whether you have health insurance, or not. Under the currrent system, YOUR HEATH INSURANCE COMPANY determines if you are covered for a procedure, or not. How is that better? How is that “freedom?” You must really trust your boss and the insurance industry.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm

“Obama is trying to destroy our constitution and make this country a fascist marxist state.”
Posted by: PotatoeGater22 | Aug 6, 2009 12:09:28 PM
________________________
Dear Potato[e]
You are highly misinformed. and highly charged. I suggest getting off the conservative radio/GOP wagon for a bit.
Sharing my information seems to make you angry. I suppose hearing facts turns your parroted argument on it’s head. I’m sure you’re a decent guy.
President Obama is a Constitutional law professor. Under the U.S. constitution, we are a Democracy. No one can change that by offering healthcare for everyone.
I believe you’re being baited by those who want to continue making lots of money at ‘our’ expense. They are backing the top 5% wage earners. The GOP backs them, and some crooked Democrats as well. They are clever.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm

“if the constitution protects your rights to bear arms, why wouldn’t we want the government to ensure we all receive adequate healthcare?”
Ya know I was just reading through my copy of the constitution and I couldn’t find the amendment that gauranteed a right to health care insurance. Perhaps you could help me out.

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

Here is the Obama argument to date. ITS good if we make health care for everyone.
ROFL. WOW I think he left out a lot of details doesnt everyone? And if Bill HR3200 is what he means then all I can say is the CBO already stated it WONT meet his goal. 30 million will remain uninsured. And it will increase cost. IT DOESNT FIX anything. So its a joke.
Another Obama Failure.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

Ask Obama and the WH what they are doing about the current H1N1 pandemic. The answer is they are doing nothing while people are dying. Do you see reports in the media how many cases we have? Do you know that doctors stopped even testing the patients for “swine” flu? The patients are simply sent home. O.K., if you have insurance, you pay $55 for Tamiflu. What about people on the street, immigrants working in agriculture or on construction sites, and those without insurance? Many of them have compromised immune systems and would simply die of not treated properly. Meanwhile Congress is spending money on cash for clunkers! How ridiculous! The only person from the WH who did at least something was Joe Biden. He gave the right advice about avoiding travel, public transportation, and other crowded places.

Posted by: H1N!Hysteria | August 6, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

Under the currently system, YOUR EMPLOYER determines whether you have health insurance, Amy B Maine >>>> Thats BS.
You can buy insurance. Whats the main issue cost. Can that get fixed with real reform? YES it can. These issues are easily fixed. Buy health insurance like life insurance. You pay a fixed fee from the time you get the policy until you die. Make it portable. Allow for pooling. Enforce a common paper format etc. These are real reforms. HR3200 is garbage and Obama doesnt even know what he is talking about.
The Obama Failure was his speech on Health care on TV.
Lets seem him in a truely OPEN forum. UNLIKE the hand picked audience to make him LOOK good.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:33 pm 12:33 pm

I believe you’re being baited by those who want to continue making lots of money at ‘our’ expense. They are backing the top 5% wage earners. gus amaral >>> What are you babbling about? Conspiracy theories? Got your tin foil hat?
Dear Potato[e]
You are highly misinformed. >>>>
No he read the WhiteHouse.gov website and read Rahm’s emails posted. Why are you avoiding the obvious that these guys are CHICAGO THUGS. JUST LIKE BLAGO in IL. They smile and say all kinds of nice things in public then behind closed doors they stab people in the back and strong arm anyone they can. Its like Capone.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm

“Ya know I was just reading through my copy of the constitution and I couldn’t find the amendment that gauranteed a right to health care insurance. Perhaps you could help me out.”
Posted by: Aaron | Aug 6, 2009 12:29:11 PM
____________________
Aaron, Here’s the Preamble for your review:
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:43 pm 12:43 pm

Please explain how private, for-profit, selective healthcare ensures the public welfare according to the Constitution…
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

gus amaral >>> Where is health care in that?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

To be honest isnt eating what I like more important for my tranquility. I love Smoked salmon, lobster and steak. So Gus pony up so I can eat for my tranquility.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

If you want to visit the future just look at Seattle’s social engineering project. They nitpik over every blasted detail to verify and assure that there is absolutely no hint of social injustice or bias. The result; gridlock. Then the green project where citizens must pick through there garbage so the city can start a compost pile for city hippy gardens. The result less garbage pickup and higher costs.

Posted by: Gregory | August 6, 2009, 12:49 pm 12:49 pm

“…establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,..”
_____________________
ChicagBob – providing access for all our citizens to healthcare is providing the common defence [ not just the rich],
promote the general welfare [of all, not just the GOP / the rich], and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves [ take care of our country-the people in it], and our posterity [keeping our country and people intact]

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm

The sad thing is the corruption that would result from government programs is beyond comprehension. And what would be gained?
Better care? No.
Lower Costs? No.
More coverage? No.
This HR3200 is just nuts!

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

For the conservative platform, any plan which even remotely calls upon our government (’of the people, by the people, and for the people’) to act as our brother’s keeper is labeled socialist, and therefore disqualified from serious consideration.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

It amazes me that people cried like stuck pigs when W was tapping phones, but have no problem giving the health records to Kathleen Sebelius and Obama. Ok, Maybee you trust them more then Bush, but do you trust the next president? Do you have any idea who it will be? Do you really want a single payer system where some government worker receives an itemized bill of what you were treated for? Does anyone think that once government has a copy of your medical history that they will be able to keep it private?

Posted by: Alex | August 6, 2009, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm

1) If this plan is so good, why can’t congress or Obama clearly defend or explain it to the public who have legitimate questions? Remember, Obama is the master of communication.
2)How does Obama explain video of him advocating single-payer healthcare – Barney Frank too?
3) Why does this need to be rammed down our throats NOW?
4) Why doesn’t Congress or Obama read the bill?
5) Why won’t congress use the same plan for themselves?
6)How exactly will this be paid for without raising everyone’s taxes?
7) Why is Obama asking me to report dissenters via the whitehouse website?
8) Why is it ok for ACORN, HCAN, code Pink (liberal groups) to organize to protest but opposition to Obama should be ridiculed and silenced?
9) Obama is a community organizer and apparently a hypocrite.
10) Where is our leader who brings all voices to the table to reach a peaceful resolution and calm a restless nation? Apparently he’s too busy beating the drum for HIS side.

Posted by: AninTx | August 6, 2009, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Still don’t see any mention of health care in there. I do see “promote the general Welfare” but promote is not the same thing as provide as in “provide for the common defence”. The government must “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence” and in so doing “promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”. These items were listed in the order they were for a reason.

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Sorry Gus but it’s a strong military that “provides” for the common defense which “promotes” welfare by freeing from that worry so that in a free society I can pursue my own self interests and “provide” for my own welfare. It is in self sufficiency that I find my “tranquility”.

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm

I just saw a mob of people on TV showing up in D.C. to support the health care bill. Bus loads of people from across the nation, the report said. Hmmm… Who is paying for those buses? Who is paying to feed the multitude? Who is paying to house them?
Probably tax payers through some “community workers” support paid by govt funds.
Why is it ok for Pelosi/Obama followers to show up by the busload and not ok for anyone else. I wish my Congressman, Chet Edwards, was having a townhall meeting. I would pay my own way to go, but he’s having a telephone meeting to carefully selected supporters.

Posted by: amomnotamob | August 6, 2009, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm

“You for Euthanasia too?” – Give the a quote in any of the health bills that authorizes euthanasia. And please dont waste my time with vague references to end of life counseling. That is a common practice in hospitals today. Ever heard of a living will? Are you getting the euthanasia nonsense from the legislation or from right wing media sources? Its one of the most disgusting aspects of this whole healthcare debate that the rightwingers would resort to frightening seniors just to win a few political points. You should be ashamed of yourselves. How do you sleep at night?

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 1:12 pm 1:12 pm

“Why is it ok for Pelosi/Obama followers to show up by the busload and not ok for anyone else” – Look up definition of “mob” in the dictionary. There is a big difference between a large group of folks and the mobs of people who are shouting down anyone who doesnt not support their position.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm

You should be ashamed of yourselves. How do you sleep at night? Mark from atlanta>>> I sleep fine. You read the bill HR3200 right? This is what you are for? This 1100 pages of garbage? This is not reform you know that. Everyone knows that. So how can anyone support this junk? Do you sleep at night knowing this BILL doesnt address the actual problems with health care?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm

Mark from atlanta >>> You want real reform I am ALL for that. In fact I prayed for that. The current Democratic answer HR3200 is NOT reform. Its a shame. In fact these guys dont want reform. They want a takeover. What good is that? Where does that save ANYONE or do any good. Its a sham and a real shame. Obama is burning all that hope for bad change.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

ChicagBob: thanks for the weblink. I’ve checked it out.
I think what we have here is two groups:
one group that wants to be “right”, regardless of reasoning, or facts, and will go to any length to make their “point.”
The rest of us raise points for reasoning.
Regardless, we all need equal access to safe, affordable medical care when we are ill.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm

- Look up definition of “mob” in the dictionary. There is a big difference between a large group of folks and the mobs of people who are shouting down anyone who doesnt not support their position. Mark from atlanta >>>>> My GOD ACORN and Obama said GET IN THEIR FACE. Mark you really got to stop believing in this false profit. I think you are decent but this President is a mess.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm

AninTx
My God, where to start?
Why didn’t Congress address the escalating increase in healthcare costs, and 40 million Americans with out insurance, during the years the Republicans controlled the government?
Why don’t rightwingers come up with legitimate objections, vs. spreading proven lies, such as that old people will be encouraged to kill themselves under this plan? (The actual bill says, if a patient visits the doctor to discuss end of life care, Medicare will cover it but only ONCE every five years. From this, the rightwingers are spinning that Medicare REQUIRES such a visit, as a part of plan to get rid of old people. The visit isn’t required or encouraged, its merely covered!) And you wonder why people like me spend all day just trying to refute the lies, and we run out of space to talk about the bill itself!

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm

Regardless, we all need equal access to safe, affordable medical care when we are ill. gus amaral >>>>> gus HERE is where we agree. I dont see you listening much though. You seem to believe the generalities that Obama goes around stating. The facts are sad. His Congress (democratic majority) is failing under his guidance. How?
we all need equal access >>> Nothing in the current plan that guarantees that. remember bribes work great in government. So you will be lower on the waiting list.
affordable medical care >>> The CBO has already stated the current HR3200 is going to RAISE costs.
SO no matter what the facts are you want that to pass?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm

The government needs to fix the Social Security that they robbed from us for the last 40 years and the medicare medicade that they have managed to screw up totally before they should be allowed to play with any more of our money. Like my father told me years ago that I have to take care of the toys I have before I could have any more toys.

Posted by: Dave | August 6, 2009, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm

Aaron
Ahhh, the old, “I’m a patriot and you’re not” argument, because seeing people denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions is SO patriotic, so manly, and really speaks to the core of what it is to be American! 40 million uninsured! Thrilling!

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm

For years, I did not have health insurance, including eight years with an employer who kept my status as “part time” by laying me off for three weeks every summer – just so they wouldn’t have to provide me with health insurance!
Amy B Maine >>>> Amy how will this program help you? You will have to take money out of pocket and PAY for your own health care. Can you afford to pay 20 or 30% of your part time salary for health care? DID you think this bill gave you FREE health care?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:39 pm 1:39 pm

40 million uninsured!Amy B Maine >>> Sure have them draft a bill you give up 20% or 30% of your salary and they will cover the rest. Should cost about 200 Billion.
Solved and saved 1.5 TRILLION.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm

Dave
Social Security and Medicare are not “toys.”
Maybe the people in your family die young, but my older relatives lived into their 90′s and social security and medicare has been a God send to us. Try not smoking, lose some weight and use a seat belt, and you TOO could live long enough to benefit from these programs.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm

“promotes” welfare by freeing from that worry so that in a free society I can pursue my own self interests and “provide” for my own welfare. It is in self sufficiency that I find my “tranquility”.
Posted by: Aaron | Aug 6, 2009 1:09:28 PM
__________________
so, you refuse trash pickup, public schooling, send back your tax refunds, boycott public transportation & highways, refuse to utilize the police and firefighters in an emergency?
What happens to your self-sufficiency when you are laid off, can’t afford Cobra payments and become ill…will you chose to die? Is that a choice someone should consider making in a free society?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 1:46 pm 1:46 pm

Amy, Amy, Amy -
No one is denied health care in the USA, not even the those who chash our boarders. Just go to the emergency rooms, and cash in – pre existing condition or not. Patients who have existing conditions keep going back to the same emergency care, and guess what? they get care, even if they are over 65. This can be worked out, but not this way:

Posted by: ZK | August 6, 2009, 1:51 pm 1:51 pm

gus amaral
Don’t you see? We don’t need no stinking USDA to make sure there aren’t worms in our beef, or the FDA to make sure our cold medicine doesn’t contain lead! We don’t need no stinking traffic lights, or social workers to report child neglect to, or food stamps for laid off workers, or fire inspectors to make sure the exits are clear in our public venues. Why! Those things are for sissies! We are manly men, independent Americans! So what if my leg is broke and I have no money for a doctor, I’ll let it set crooked and walk with a limp the rest of my life!

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm

“It is in self sufficiency that I find my “tranquility”" – Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps defies the laws of physics. There is always an inertial frame of reference. Your tranquility depends upon elements outside of yourself, just as your life does whether you recognize them or not.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm

ChicagBob:
Do you believe all U.S. citizens should have equal access to healthcare?
Should anyone be excluded?

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

you refuse trash pickup
Is that a Federal tax? NO its local
and done by a community. SOME dont have trash pick up. ITS NOT FEDERAL
>>public schooling, >>>>
Those are doing so well everyone that can in Congress send their kids to private schools like OBAMA.. Again this is a state school system though the FED is involved at times with regulation.
Our public schools are paid for by property taxes which again are NOT federal.
>>>send back your tax refunds,
These are the return of confiscated funds. THEY DO NOT BELONG to the FED. You earned the money they took IT.
>>>boycott public transportation
Again a State and local concern and some places dont have any because they are no in cities.
>>>highways
This is both federal and state.
But there is no Federal mandate to build
a road. Its a community decision.
>>>utilize the police and firefighters
>>>>in an emergency
AGAIN local and my firefighters are volunteer. SO NOT Everyone takes tax money to do things.
>>> What happens to your
>>> self-sufficiency when
>>>> you are laid off
To people who are self employed they go broke if they cant get more work.
>>>>can’t afford Cobra payments and become ill.
GUS what in Obama’s bill fixes this? NOTHING.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm

“No one is denied health care in the USA” – Try getting good, quality primary care at an ER. Thats why our infant survival rates and life spans are so low.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

I don’t know were they’re coming up with support softens. I support this President more now than ever.

Posted by: rightbehind | August 6, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

ChicagBob:
Do you believe all U.S. citizens should have equal access to healthcare?
Should anyone be excluded? gus amaral >>>> Gus an accurate answer would be there is no such thing as equal. Everyone currently can go to an emergency room and get health care and there are clinics in several states that give away health care. So what do you consider equal? You think Obama or Ted Kennedy get the same care as you?
Do you think that all of government workers should be forced to use the same health care system as you?
Did you notice they are excluded from HR3200 ?

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm

Amy
I’m your biggest fan. especially after the “facts are stubborn” post today.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm

Try getting good, quality primary care at an ER. Thats why our infant survival rates and life spans are so low.
Mark from atlanta >>> You didnt watch Stossel did you? When you take out deaths related to obesity, Car crashes and murders we are living longer or as long as anyone else in the world. We also have the most medical innovations of any country. So whats equal? About infant survival are you including drug addicted babies in that number? Stats are weird like that. You can twist em.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm

Tired of posting against people that have NO facts to back them up. They have not read the bill they have no numbers to prove their points. All they can do is whine like children, “I want Obama’s health care cause” Cause why? I dunno I have no idea what Obama’s health care IS. Do you? HR3200 is complete garbage and that is the current Democratic BILL. Chat after you guys have read some of it.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm

“No one is denied healthcare in the U.S.”
__________________
People are denied access to quality healthcare everyday. Even the insured–anyone with a organizational PPO is denied out of network, out of plan expenses.
Private, for profit companies are running our U.S. healthcare system.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

“You didnt watch Stossel did you?” – The data I cited on America’s low life spans and infant survival rates are from the CDC, not from media sources, whether its Stossel on the right or Michael Moore on the left. Life spans and infant survival correlate with access to good quality primary care. Ask an OB-GYN about the connection between affordable, quality pre-natal care and infant survival rates. All 19 of the countries that have higher infant survival rates have national health plans. Please my friend, dont let ideology get in the way of finding solutions to this urgent problem.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 2:15 pm 2:15 pm

ChicagBob.
It’s not President Obama’s ideas for healthcare reform… It’s a collective of informed ideas from socially responsible people whose eyes are open.
It’s not just President Obama who realizes the country needs to take care of itself.
The parties blocking reform are the ones who profit from it. period.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm

“Another question for you. Of those 40 million how many are people who choose no to purchase health insurance? Answer 34.5 million could afford to purchase health insurance but choose not too.” – Your right, that is a big problem because when they go to the ER its the rest of us that end up paying. Fortunately the House and Senate bills address that problem so lets get them passed.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm

We, the American taxpayers, already provide critical care at no expense to the recipient at every federally funded hospital in the nation. This bill is not about availability, it is not about affordable health insurance, (read the bill) it is about affordable health care. May I ask affordable to whom? The answer is the government. The social medicine promises of the past have caught up with us. Medicare and Medicaid, etc are too expensive to sustain if care is to be comparable to “private” coverage benefits. The bill will by multiple measures eliminate private health insurance, and replace it with government provided health care. Getting medical care will become similar to getting approved for disability or other government run programs; a nightmare. We will have to settle for what’s given us. I am not against improving our health care infrastructure (reform), but I am adamantly against this present bill. We have too many other mechanisms to increase coverage to the masses without government rendered health care. The biggest problem is the availability of affordable health insurance, start by changing the roadblocks to access coverage funded thru group coverage. Presently, group coverage is most widely available thru employment; we could, thru tax or other policy, encourage the introduction of group policies by non-employment entities. As these grow, individuals would have more options for group coverage, not just thru their job. Jobs change, affordable coverage thru this venue is too limited and results in too much vulnerability to health coverage. Non-employment options comparable to employment based plans. Then, if my employment changes, I am not lost in the process without affordable health insurance. For many working as self-employed or for smaller employers, the alternate group policy would be far more affordable and result in many being able to afford coverage. We have the best health care in the world, we have many provisions of law to help transfer from coverage to coverage as life events occur, but we are presently without good options when losing the cost effective, cost containing benefits of group coverage. Broaden the options for group coverage before you poison the very industries (health care and health insurance) that have allowed us the envied care of the world. Imagine if the NAACP, NRA, Sam’s Club, etc could offer your group options like your employer, more competition, more forces working to increase quality and affordability, and best of all, not tied to employment.

Posted by: mkh | August 6, 2009, 2:21 pm 2:21 pm

Please my friend, dont let ideology get in the way of finding solutions to this urgent problem. Mark from atlanta >>>> Please Mark dont let ideology cram down a bad BILL. There is no reform in the 1100 pages. If there is its hidden in between the pages that about creating a government take over of health care.
I WANT REFORM. Who in the democratic party is for reform? I cant find them.
HR3200 is NOT reform. Do you deny this?
FIND real REFORM starting with TORT reform and Individual pooling and other fantastic ideas like making Health Insurance like Life Insurance. You pay a fixed amount from the time you join and cant get dropped. HOW about that idea? Thats reform. No pre-exisiting tests how about that? The current offerings have NO reform. I repeat I WANT reform and HR3200 is not reform.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm

Fortunately the House and Senate bills address that problem so lets get them passed. Mark from atlanta >>>> THEIR solution costs us 1.7 TRILLION dollars. SO NO lets BLOCK that BILL

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:26 pm 2:26 pm

Mark from atlanta
My wife works for an OB-GYN and the majority of their patients get their pre-natal care through existing government programs for example Medical, California’s version of Medicaid and there are others. The point is that programs already exist on to address this issue. What else you got?

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 2:27 pm 2:27 pm

It’s not President Obama’s ideas for healthcare reform…
>>>>> Then why is he making speeches for it? If its not his bill? When you say you are for something its YOURS no matter who wrote it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
It’s a collective of informed ideas from socially responsible people whose eyes are open >>>>>>>>
This is opinion. Not fact. The ideas are from who and WHY should I believe them? They promised 8% unemployment if they were allowed 787BILLION dollars of DEBT and that was a lie from informed people. SO THIS is BUNK.
>>>>>>>>>
The parties blocking reform are the ones who profit from it. period.
gus amaral>>>>>>>>
Again BUNK. To block HR3200 is a public service. YOU SHOULD BE GRATEFUL and stop talking about things you have NOT READ

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:36 pm 2:36 pm

Mark from atlanta
So who’s paying for the healthcare they’ll get through this bill?

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm

“We, the American taxpayers, already provide critical care at no expense to the recipient at every federally funded hospital in the nation. This bill is not about availability” – Critical care is fine, but its preventive care that can save more lives and reduce costs for everyone. Thats where our current system falls woefully behind.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 2:41 pm 2:41 pm

ChicagBob
HR3200 says that employers must provide health insurance, or else pay a fine. However, companies making under $500,000 are exempt from this fine.
I have worked for big companies that could have provided health insurance, but didn’t, and small companies that wanted to provide insurance, but couldn’t.
This bill, to me, is reform. Small companies will not have to ask their employees to go uninsured and big companies will be required to provide it. There are provisions to eliminate co-pays for preventive care, and No One will be denied coverage, as people routinely are now.
If you are so keen on “reform” why weren’t you doing anything about it in the 15 years since Bill Clinton’s plans got blocked? 15 years to show the country there was a better way to manage healthcare? Yet, in that time, how many people went bankrupt due to high medical bills? Our emergency rooms are over flowing with non-emergency cases because uninsured people don’t have access to health care.

Posted by: Amy B Maine | August 6, 2009, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm

“My wife works for an OB-GYN and the majority of their patients get their pre-natal care through existing government programs for example Medical, California’s version of Medicaid and there are others.” – Yes, but the funding mechanisms are patchy and vary in quality state by state. Thats why conservative states, such as Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi etc have the lowest infant survival rates. Even California’s system is coming in the budgetary chopping block. We need a national commitment to bring our infant survival rates up. Its too important to leave to the vagaries of local political winds.

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

but its preventive care that can save more lives and reduce costs for everyone. Thats where our current system falls woefully behind.Mark from atlanta >>>> HOW MUCH will it cost and where is it in HR3200? What page is it on? Is it worth 1.7 trillion of debt? Oh and lets not forget 30 million will be still uninsured. THIS IS THE CBO FACTS not some wishful thinking Mark.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

Amy B Maine
Here is where we are at an impasse.
DO you want REFORM or TAKE OVER? WHICH? REFORM DOESNT MEAN TAKE OVER.. Its that simple. There are a TON of regulations on the health care industry NOW. You want reform? FIX whats broken and dont, I repeat DONT create another broken system. ITS STUPID. Maybe Obama should buy me a beer.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

“FIND real REFORM starting with TORT reform” – Here are two thoughts on that: 1) I worked in hospitals for ten years and I have seen surgeons who I would not trust with a scapel on me or my family. Because there is not real regulation of practice (MDs regulate themselves?)its only the threat of a suit that keeps them honest (I refer to a small group, most MDs are good folks). 2) Jury awards in medical cases usually include a huge sum to pay for future health-related costs. If we get 97% of folks covered as the CBO projects, that could lower that part of jury awards and lower malpractice insurance. What do you think?

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

“Yes, but the funding mechanisms are patchy and vary in quality state by state. Thats why conservative states, such as Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi etc have the lowest infant survival rates. Even California’s system is coming in the budgetary chopping block. We need a national commitment to bring our infant survival rates up. Its too important to leave to the vagaries of local political winds.”
So you’re saying that quality in these government programs is affected by funding and budgetary issues? So when government has a funding problem How do they fix it? I’m not sure but my answer to that question would be HIGHER TAXES! So when 1.7 trillion dollars turns out not to be enough what do you think will happen?

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 3:02 pm 3:02 pm

“Maybe Obama should buy me a beer.” – Good idea!

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

If we get 97% of folks covered as the CBO projects, that could lower that part of jury awards and lower malpractice insurance. What do you think? Mark from atlanta >>>>> No it would raise them. As the health care costs would go up and you can get a LOT of money suing the government its done all the time. Also who gets rich? The lawyer most of the time. Also how does a public system reduce the need for doctors, the insurance the doctors pay, the quality of care, the amount of extra tests performed because of the fear of malpractice?
It doesnt. In short HR3200 doesnt FIX whats wrong. IF they took out the public option and FIXED whats actually the problems (cost quality etc) I would be saying HORRAH but that isnt going to happen.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm

I can’t believe that the democrats can really blame the republicans as causing discontent!Ican’t believe that people in this country would believe in their hype, and fabricated excuses. People have in a short time ,turn that democratic corner only to see socialistic ,anti constitutional leadership waiting for the lambs. are their lies and fabrications the same ones used by the british when our fore fathers stood up for what they believed in?If our fore fathers were radicals, were they also called republicans ?

Posted by: william | August 6, 2009, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

“Maybe Obama should buy me a beer.” – Good idea! Mark from atlanta.. He should buy you a beer as well. I can tell you are passionate about this. Its a good thing but the current legislation is broken and misguided. More about power than about helping. That needs to be turned around to convince me its good.
A great idea I heard today is mandating the purchase of health care insurance like Life insurance. You should be able to buy a 30 year policy. No pre-exisiting test either. Pooling is a good idea as well. There are lots of good ideas that dont cost more than some regulations but you know that.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 3:10 pm 3:10 pm

Now you’re being ridiculous. Emergency care is already mandated by law. What else you got?
Posted by: Aaron | Aug 6, 2009 2:44:11 PM
___________________
Doesn’t mean the emergency cost is covered. Patient out of pocket-”self pay” is a real problem.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm

Doesn’t mean the emergency cost is covered. Patient out of pocket-”self pay” is a real problem. gus amaral>>> Paid for by everyone with the money like the insured. Its a hidden cost and they didnt need the government to take the money first. They just needed the mandate.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 3:14 pm 3:14 pm

If anyone can get me a beer with Obama that would be fun. Maybe I should say he is acting stupidly. LOL..

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 3:16 pm 3:16 pm

“Maybe Obama should buy me a beer.” – Good idea!
For the record I would be willing to have a beer with anyone here and talk about this stuff. I enjoy it. But I wouldn’t have a beer with Obama if he paid me.

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 3:18 pm 3:18 pm

The latest Rasmussen poll has Obama’s approval rating at 29% and Rasmussen has had a good record of being accurate. He predicted the outcome of the 2008 election right down to the last percentage point.
It seems the other polsters are desperately trying to do everything they can to make Obama’s approval rating as high as it could be.
At the same time Rasmussen has Obama at 29% and several other polls show the country is moving to the right (The Gallup poll for example, shows that for first time, the majority of Americans are against abortion), John Zogby makes a speed saying the Republican party is on its way to extinction. Well, I guess he has to say SOMETHING to help his party.

Posted by: marco | August 6, 2009, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm

But I wouldn’t have a beer with Obama if he paid me. Aaron >>>> Thats a mistake. How can you influence anyone if you wont talk to them. I may disagree with Obama but I would never refuse a conversation with him. In fact I would welcome it with open arms.

Posted by: ChicagBob | August 6, 2009, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm

“Thats a mistake. How can you influence anyone if you wont talk to them. I may disagree with Obama but I would never refuse a conversation with him. In fact I would welcome it with open arms.”
Normally I would agree with that, which is why I would drink with anyone here. But Obama is not interested in what I or anybody else thinks. He wants to influence us and if he can’t he wants us discreditted. I don’t trust him that’s why I wouldn’t drink with him.

Posted by: Aaron | August 6, 2009, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

“A great idea I heard today is mandating the purchase of health care insurance like Life insurance. You should be able to buy a 30 year policy. No pre-exisiting test either. Pooling is a good idea as well. ” – Finally, some common ground! I agree with you on all three suggestions and I think they will help raise life spans and infant survival rates here in the U.S. Do you think the proposed health insurance exchange will serve as a way to pool risks?

Posted by: Mark from atlanta | August 6, 2009, 3:30 pm 3:30 pm

Paid for by everyone with the money like the insured. Its a hidden cost and they didnt need the government to take the money first. They just needed the mandate.
Posted by: ChicagBob | Aug 6, 2009 3:14:26 PM
___________
yes, and no. non-profit hospitals have to take a hit with self-pay cases.
BTW, UnitedHealthCare profits doubled compared to same quarter last year, despite drops in commercial enrollments.
The insurer’s commercial health insurance enrollment fell to 25 million in the second quarter. That represents a 6 percent decline from the same quarter last year. UnitedHealth attributed that mainly to economic pressures that forced clients to either cut jobs or trim benefits.

Posted by: gus amaral | August 6, 2009, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm

More BS (If 45 million Americans are dead set against this proposal, then maybe the congressmen should go back to the drawing board.)
In a country with over 300 million, 45 million is really not a big deal. They sure are loud but they sure are stupid.

Posted by: DanTheMan | August 6, 2009, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm

Wow, so much misinformation out there. The most far-out lie going around is the one about old people being euthanized. How can any thinking person fall for such an obvious lie?
It is sad really that in an educated country like ours people can be so easily misled.
billy bob, obviously insurance companies aren’t in favor of this bill, as they are spending over a million dollars a day to kill it.
As I’ve watched my family’s insurance premiums go up year after year, I’ve often wished for a true alternative to give these wealthy corporations real competition. With this bill providing a public health insurance option, they will have competition and that’s why they are fighting this tooth and nail. Anyone who says different has an interest in keeping the health insurance profits at their high levels… at the expense of everyone who pays these too-high premiums and those who can’t afford it and are left without medical insurance.

Posted by: Lydia | August 6, 2009, 11:41 pm 11:41 pm

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