‘This Week’ Roundtable: Palin Controlling the World Through Facebook

In regards to Sarah Palin and her claims of “death panels,” Brazile quoted John Adams saying “facts are stubborn things.” She went on to say Governor Palin was for end-of life counseling before she was against, referring to a proclamation she signed as Governor back in April 16, 2008 to encourage Alaskans to “seek out counseling services for these important decisions.”
===================
Sarah Palin’s comments, as I understand them, were not about end of life counseling, but about how costs would be saved at end-of-life. She also, in a follow-up, discussed Dr. Emmanuel’s musings about distributing care given limited resources.
Without discussing the accuracy of Palin’s concerns or the way she expressed them, I’d say the WH has gladly latched on to what she said as a way to AVOID having the discussion about “bending the curve” the President wanted to have in April 2009.

I hope we get some healthcare reform, but it won’t the Obamacare bill that Donna Brazile and the rest of the Socialists in the Democratic Party want.
The Democratic Party certainly has changed since I was growing up. It used to be for the common man. Now it trashes the common people when they try to speak up.

“controlling the world”? that’s the kind of hyperbole that sarah herself indulges in…she admittedly is forcing the health care debate to be reactive rather than proactive, but that’s what she is good at.
for a year now, we have watched as this woman tosses out the most incredibly extreme ideas which, while not on the mark, are sort-of, kind-of related to it. her ideas have no relationship to the truth, but because they address deep-seated fears of many americans, she manages to get people to not only listen to her, but to believe what she says.
one of our greatest presidents, fdr, once said, “we have nothing to fear, but fear itself.” sarah palin and her ilk, rush limbaugh, glenn beck, and other right-wing extremists, pander to fear. personally, i chose, in the words of our current president, to “choose hope over fear.”

I voted for McCain, but I wasn’t happy with Sarah Palin as his choice for VP. I didn’t think she was qualified (of course, neither was Obama, but he didn’t have to be, did he?)
I didn’t think there was anything special about Sarah Palin, but I’m absolutely flabbergasted at the amount of time Liberals spend trashing this woman. They are obviously fearful of her, but why? Apparently I’m just not getting it.
Might it have something to do with the fact that the party Democrats like to paint as being “anti-woman” so vigorously embraced a woman for Vice President, while the party of the common man trashed one of its own female members simply because she dared to run for the highest office?
The Democrats have now lost the ability to put forth the “Republicans don’t like women” argument that they sprouted when I was growing up.
Is that the basis for the fear of Sarah Palin? Or is it simply that she doesn’t fit the mold of “old white businessman” – another argument that Democrats try to make against Republicans.
I really don’t understand, but it’s amazing to see. The Democrats expend an inordinate amount of time pounding on Sarah Palin, a woman who probably weighs 90 pounds soaking wet and can’t speak without lapsing into run-on, nonsensical sentences.
Utterly amazing!!!

Janet, you’ve hit on one reason. Palin was given respect by Republicans, even those, like you, who didn’t like her as VP. In contrast, the DNC, Dem leaders and ordinary rank and file treated Hilary like dirt. I’m no fan of the Clintons, but it was shocking to see a woman treated with such misogyny and disrespect by her own party.
You’re absolutely right – the
Democratic Party can no longer tout the Republicans as the party who wants women “barefoot and pregnant.” That doesn’t wash anymore.
That’s why the Democrats are now hitting the “Republicans are racist” theme so hard and so often. It’s all they have left.
If makes you wonder what they’ll resort to when the Republicans put an African-American on their ticket, doesn’t it? Oh, wait. I forgot. The Democrats don’t consider conservative blacks as “really black.”

Sarah, out of office and still driving the Socialist Democrats crazy!
I’m loving this!!!!!!!!

What Jake’s remarks (and that stupid Ed Gillespie) show is that the Beltway has no idea what the US is like. They don’t understand that the protestors know more about what is in the bill than the congressman or the MSM does. Palin won the debate because she was RIGHT.

This intentional misinformation about health care reform reminds me of the lies about WMDs. When are we, as a nation, going to value truth and facts over lies and ignorance? Challenge Palin or any of these “dumb down” fear mongers to simply find in the proposed bill any of the lies they are asserting. There were never any so called “death panels” in any of the proposals–ever. There was never any proposal to outlaw private insurance or any of the other lies they are telling. Hopefully these less than independent thinking town hall criers will remember they are literate and can read the bill for themselves and will stop having loud mouth drugged up dropouts or those who barely made it through college and who can’t finish a single term in office do their thinking for them. If these town hall criers are literate enough to blog they are literate enough to read for themselves. Hopefully an examination of the facts will lead to independent thinking and then they might realize they have been duped by the insurance corporations and their lobbyists who “own” Congress. They should spend less time watching Fox and more time researching at Opensecrets.org and opencongress.org and this nation could begin to value intelligence again.

ABC, and the rest just don’t get it. When Sarah Palin voluntarily stepped aside as governor, she said she didn’t need a title to work for real change, and she was right. With a few posts on Facebook, she has done more to throw a monkey wrench into 0bama’s power grab than the rest of the gop combined. I can’t wait to see what she posts next.
Hopefully it will be something about how one of 0bama’s henchman is threatening sponsors of Glenn Beck’s show, trying to force him off the air. That, coupled with the “report your neighbor” program being run out of the white house would be an excellent target for Palin to hit.
Palin 2012

-Unfortunately, the media and an enthusiastic segment of Republicans are determined to keep her in the spotlight, because it sells, and the Republican party doesn’t seem to have anyone else who can grab as much attention.-
Donna Brazile isn’t a Republican. I mean not since I checked last.

Michael,
Abortion is legal in this country. Deal with it.

It’s amusing that not only has Sarah Palin been proven right on the death panel concept but now the lying liberals (and their allies in the MSM) are claiming that legitimate living will counseling (you know, the kind that occurs well before one is faced with a life-threatening disease) is the same thing as their “precipice of death” pressure from bureaucrats to end it all!

Sarah Palin is to the Republican Party what Howard Dean is to the Democrat Party.

Hey Danny – Palin’s “death panel” wasn’t “debunked” because she was simply using a metaphor for something that was actually passed in the stimulus bill. Maybe the Dems won’t call it a death panel, but we all know liberals will call them a cutesy sounding name and it’ll be the same thing. BTW – if Palin’s death panel was debunked, then why was it removed from the bill, after Obama saying it wasn’t part of the bill anyway? You Palin bashers are just pathetic, she represents the mother of all change.

Palin wanted to draw attention to that creepy Dr Emanuel, adviser to Obama.
Mission accomplished.
Obama quickly dropped end of life counseling sessions before he had to explain why he supported Dr Death.
Palin 2012

“I can’t wait to see what she posts next. Hopefully it will be something about how one of 0bama’s henchman is threatening sponsors of Glenn Beck’s show, trying to force him off the air.”
There is a must-see video about Glenn Beck and his unwavering views on the health care system. From the time of his hemorrhoid surgery last year (“A personal voyage through the nightmare that is our healthcare system”) to his views on current healthcare reform (“You’re about to lose the best health care system in the world.”)
Almost as good as Sarah ‘Death Panel’ Palin being for end-of-life counseling before she was agin it.

Wow, you lib’s keep blathering about Sarah when you control congress. Have you oh so intellectuals read HR3200. Talk about ambiguity, just pass it and we will fill in the blanks later. Sort of like the crashing 787 billion vote buying package.
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out 
of other people’s money.” Margaret Thatcher

The Democrats conveniently blame Palin for Obama’s failures.
They can’t admit what a weak leader he is and how he stuffs the pockets of special interests rather than looking our for the people.
Obama has the MSM, the WH, Senate, and the House and still can’t get his bills passed.
So how is that the fault of Repubs, Palin or anyone else excpt a president with no backbone.

Indy_Voter I will not waste my time on your comment other than to say those who murder innocents who never even had a chance will have to answer for it in the end it is called free will but many will discover it is not as free as they think and the price to be paid is… Well you figure it out, it is not my place to sort your life out for you.

Not to claim the kind of intellectual credentials that George W. Bush had with Yale and Harvard, this State College grad just turned the tables on the left’s tactic of exaggeration that is proven effective all too often. Death Panels, indeed! Remember when Iraq was the new Vietnam Quagmire Nightmare? That was the evil Left’s invention that effectively ruined Bush’s effectiveness to lead. Yes, facts are stubborn things. We won Iraq just like Bosnia, but hey, why should anyone notice?
Sarah Palin, the State University graduate effectively ruined the support Obama was seeking with the elderly and middle America.
Hey, lefties, eat it big time and in your face!
I must demand Obama’s now sealed grades from high school, Columbia and Harvard. Bush and Kerry released their’s so what is the President hiding? He’s already released proof of his birth. Why not his grades?

With all due respect, Donna Brazile (I sound like Nancy Grace, yikes) – encouraging/offering end of life counseling, and providing doctors payment if they do it, are two entirely separate things.
Pg 425, Sec. 1233.
According to the bill, “such consultation shall include the following: An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to; an explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses; an explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.”
Medicare will cover one session every five years, the legislation states. If a patient becomes very ill in the interim, Medicare will cover additional sessions.
#1. This is not in the realm of the Doctor. Many of these are legal/moral/religious/personal issues that any doctor I know (and I know many) would bristle at being involved in beyond the most basic distribution of the materials (as my cancer center does) and answering the most basic questions about advance directives.
#2. For the few but existing unscrupulous doctors who do seek loopholes and methods to extract as much money out of Medicare (or a govt plan) as possible, this would be one more way, as written, for them to garner extra payment.
Please remove the kookiness and over-emotionality from the debate, approach everything with a skeptical eye, and consider the law of unintended consequences. That is the only way to get to the meat and substance of what might essentially be good, solid, equitable, sensible, meaningful reforms.

Obama is screwed and Sarah didn’t even kiss him first. First rule when you’re in a hole, Obama, is to stop digging.

All who are obsessed with Failin’ Palin believe that everyone else who even refers to her is also as obsessed. It’s called “projection.” But, in truth, she is just a self-obsessed, attention-seeking incompetent and incapable 2-bit politician who couldn’t even handle governing a state with the smallest population. She’s a quitter and a loser, just like her followers.

“Critics say they’re uneasy about end of life care measures being discussed within the context of cost cutting” – Jake Tapper, ABC ‘This Week’ opening.
What a great way to put it Jake. This is what I have been thinking all week, but couldn’t put into words as elegantly as you managed to.
Both sides are so busy demagogue – ‘ing’ this issue very few have dug a little deeper to acknowledge a legitimate concern end-of-life counseling by the financier brings.

Apparently Sarah Palin is living a “facebook reality”. Not real contact with people, and totally disconnected from the world where people actually meet to talk and exchange opinions. Keep up the good work Sarah, and stay inside facebook. Make sure that you never get out of there and meet the real world.

Amazing.
Sarah Palin is an ex-governor of the smallest state in the U.S. and is essentially these days a quasi-journalist/commentator posting from her Facebook page (Facebook page, people)…and it’s all Jake, his friends in the MSM and the Democrats can talk about these days. Amazing.
If THIS is the best counter-argument to opposing ObamaCare, could it just possibly be that there was nothing really substantial to defend the President’s plan to begin with?

Get rid of this uneducated whack job from Wasillia. She is so crazeee and
a nut!

I agree. People should look at Sarah Palin and realize if they are not educated and if they do not read and become curious, they will end up looking like her IGNORANT!

Sarah Palin is a ignorant uneducated incuriopus moron and so are her folowers!

And obama hasn’t been able to improve the economy or pass health care “reform” with the media, congress, and senate on his side. Really now, how smart IS obama? Not very.
Looks like the new talking points from the obama campaign is “Sarah Palin is stupid.” Well, the majority of Americans do not have a college education but they still can vote. What the elitist liberals are doing is backfiring on them. I’m a pro-choice Independent that campaigned for Hillary but this elitist crap is pushing me toward Sarah Palin big time. She will be able to run the country more effectively than obama has in 8 months. Count. On. It.

ABC, CBS, MSNBC are nothing more than leftist zealots who censor the news and comments to fit thier socialist agenda and just like the New York Times and other newspapers accross the country your days are coming to an end. Americans want to hear the truth not the candy coated BS you propagate from drinking the essence of Obama tainted coolaid you fill you selfs with, you are cowards plain and simple.

If you want to understand what Sarah Palin is doing, try this article:
…and ponder this quote…
“Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I’m amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, ‘Does any of this really matter?’”
Most normal people aren’t obsessed with parsing legalese and don’t appreciate how clever spin is. They want honesty and a bottom line. And while it’s easy to characterize a lack of interest in the details as a lack of education or intelligence, those who are obsessed with such things easily miss that they are so obsessed with the details, not just the individual trees but even branches and leaves, that they miss the forest all around them and fail to realize how absurd the big picture sounds.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. When a politician promises that they can do more without raising taxes and are going to make it up with “efficiency” or by “cutting waste”, experience show they are lying even if they believe what they are saying because it never works that way. People like to believe that we can get something for nothing but adults need to stop believing that Santa Claus is going to make it all work for them.

“Looks like the new talking points from the obama campaign is “Sarah Palin is stupid.”
Yep. Funny thing is Washington DC is FULL of politicians who went to EXPENSIVE and ELITE private universities. How well has that worked out for us?
What we need is more politicians who are citizen legislators as our forefathers intended, with successful track records, common sense, a clue about economics, a thorough understanding of our Constitution, and the willingness to be SERVANTS of the people–basically the opposite of the boneheads in power now.

Sarah Palin is as relevant to political truth as Britney Spears is to classical music. but Britney at least knows her limitations.

It’s worth noting too, that Palin’s facebook page is set up so that only her “fans” can post to it.

“I am just not seeing what makes the MSM so comfortable calling Ms Palin crazy? If Sara Palin is crazy…Howard Dean should be committed.”
–> During the primaries, Oblabla BARELY refrained from calling Clinton “crazy”. Instead, He and His msm pals merely implied it, over and over, the closer the contest became.
BO’s track record on white women who cross Him in political matters: not good.

My, my, my….methinks the liberals doth protest too much. The “crazy” lady from Alaska is doing them in…..she is crazy like a fox. I will take her character, sincerity, determination, accomplishments in Alaska and her love for America over the dimwitted, can’t get a sentence right without a teleprompter and “it’s the Post Office having the problems” Nobraino any day of the week….just sit back and watch….you are in for a big surprise!!

“Sterling character? Honesty?”
In the big scheme of things, yup.
You’ve never worked in government, have you? You haven’t looked into how much Alaska’s previous governors spent and expensed, have you? What happens in that someone generally tells the politician what they can or can’t expense and they don’t give it nearly as much thought as people looking for dirt to trash Sarah Palin with have. These are the political equivalent of speeding tickets.
Maybe you should look into the interview with documentary maker Elan Frank who followed her around for three days and she never asked him to turn off his camera. How many politicians would be willing or able to do that with a documentary maker?

Obama can’t let it go.
He’s obsessed with Sarah/Death Panels like he is with Rush and Fox news.
Obama can’t stop bringing it up.
He’s making it worse.
It’s like he can’t believe someone is actually questioning him–HIM the greatest celebrity president ever!
How dare anyone question him.

How dare anyone question him.
max,
Whenever I find myself even slightly unsure of The Lightbringer’s words, I shut my eyes tight and whisper “Hope and Change, Hope and Change” until my doubts pass.

“With liberalism, it is always someone else’s fault.”
That’s what happens when you believe that good intentions combined with education and intelligence will automatically produce good results. If they don’t, it must be someone else’s fault.

How long before the WH tries to pass an amendment to takeover Facebook.
They already want control of our email.
***************************************
Sleep thru the Patriot Act?

I will take her character, sincerity, determination, accomplishments in Alaska
Posted by: Beverly
‘nother true example of Obama’s ‘they take pride in their own ignorance’

If Sara Palin is crazy…Howard Dean should be committed.
Posted by: shawn
the fact that attempt draw some kind of mindless parallel between them is proof you know not whereof you speak…

What character? I keep hearing character. Does character lie?

I love you Sarah Palin!!
Stay strong.
You have more courage in your little pinkie toe than Obama has in his whole body.

I believe Hillary is loving this.
Another strong woman beating up on poor little Barry.
And then when he gets home Michelle is waiting for him!
Palin 2012

Palin beating up on President Obama
hahahahahhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaahhhhaaalolololl SHE IS THE REASON MCCAIN LOST HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHLOLOLOLOLOLOL People were SCARED TO DEATH OF HER BEING A HEARTBEAT AWAY FROM PRESIDENT LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Close your eyes and Picture Palin President! hahah lol, she doesnt even know what news papers she reads. Picture her reading daily White House reports, or maybe with her oh so Foreign affairs experience, seeing Russia from her house she would get NK to drop their Nuclear program with just a simple wink wink of her eye hahahahahahah lollolololololahahahahahahahahah

Second look
I feel sorry for her fans not to bright!

Angie – They scare me. Take the following I just pulled off that page:
Thank you Sarah! Stay on them because they are also trying to go after the Constitution of the United States to repeal the twenty-second article of amendment, thereby removing the limitation on the number of terms an individual may serve as President. This is dangerous stuff.

It just amazes me how many people ot there have to degrade and call people names if they don’t think the way they do. God forbid if Americans had different thoughts and views from the rest.

Look what was in the stimulus package:
“H.R. 1 (more commonly known as the Recovery and Reinvestment Act, even more commonly known as the Stimulus Bill and aptly dubbed the Porkulus Bill) contains a whopping $1.1 billion to fund the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Council is the brain child of former Health and Human Services Secretary Nominee Tom Daschle. Before the Porkulus Bill passed, Betsy McCaughey, former Lieutenant governor of New York, wrote in detail about the Council’s purpose.
Daschle’s stated purpose (and therefore President Obama’s purpose) for creating the Council is to empower an unelected bureaucracy to make the hard decisions about health care rationing that elected politicians are politically unable to make. The end result is to slow costly medical advancement and consumption. Daschle argues that Americans ought to be more like Europeans who passively accept “hopeless diagnoses.”

@boxcar: I don’t read newspapers either but I know what is happening because I DO watch news and have ABC news delivered to my blackberry

President Obama Lanslided the Election he even stole Mccains traditional Red States. lolol hahahah Mccain couldnt even win Traditional Red States Barack Obama Changed that map! YES HE DID YES WE DID !!!! hooray And he will do it again in 2012 YES HE WILL!

Here is some more insightful commenting on Sarahs FB page:
Communist.. Terrorist…Anti-American…baby killing..death panel creating President

The state run MSM and all the so call smart people got it wrong.
Sarah Palin’s “death panels” ghost name was to wake everybody up to ration care under this awful health care bill.
“The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.”
Read her three face book statements. It is all about “Ration Care” the state run MSM is distracting you.
Kill this health care bill.

-Palin “controlling the world”, please, she can’t even control her on life or family, much less the world.-
Seems to be able to get plenty of people worked up into a mindless tizzy.

JR
Ha Ha Controlling the World she Didnt even keep her job as Gov she quit controlling the World yeah being laughed at!

Boxcar – You do get Sarah didn’t make that up? The credit goes to the former Lt. Governor of NY on talk radio. Then Boehner picked it up. She copies.

Yeah Stacey, I sure as heck did not sign up for Bush Co. to blow the economy.

Why the silence from the president on this aspect of his nationalization of health care? Does he agree with the “Complete Lives System”? If not, then why is Dr. Emanuel his policy advisor? What is he advising the president on?
Answer the the question TOTUS.

Aggregating all the most recent polls out there on health care shows that only about 40-42% support the President’s plan, while 49-51% oppose. That’s a horrible support level for such a major piece of legislation.
Obama has begun to hit the eject button.

Bet Noir – I’m sorry, you’re right. They beat the percentage in 1968.

Stacey,
I’m guessing you don’t work for Goldman Sachs. Angie in PA is on the right track. Recovery is in the air! It just helps to be working for the right company. My bonus was bigger than ever this year. And I’m glad that we can rely on people like Angie to vote for Obama again in 2012.

Stacey
Yes Democrats did take over in 2006 But didnt Hold all the Power, Republicans had most power and Bush was the King of VETO!

Secondlook | Aug 16, 2009 7:10:42 PM The credit goes to the former Lt. Governor of NY on talk radio. Then Boehner picked it up. She copies.++++++According to WWW and Angie, Palin was responsible for it. But ok, whatever.

Jan: “Why the silence from the president on this aspect of his nationalization of health care? Does he agree with the “Complete Lives System”? If not, then why is Dr. Emanuel his policy advisor? What is he advising the president on? Answer the the question TOTUS.”
Sarah Palin on FB: “Why the silence from the president on this aspect of his nationalization of health care? Does he agree with the “Complete Lives System”? If not, then why is Dr. Emanuel his policy advisor? What is he advising the president on?”
It’s not nice to plagiarize Palin, Jan.

Yeah, Angie, things are AWESOME now.
That’s why only 33% of Americans think we’re going in the right direction. And Congress has an approval rating in the 20′s. Must be those darn Republicans who no longer control Congress!
Just saw that on Friday we had the BIGGEST bank failure of 2009, and now the FDIC is quickly running out of money as a result. There’s a green shoot for you! The worst is behind us! We have turned the corner. LOL!

BH, How can a President “promise” what unemployment might reach? They can speculate.

Let’s see for a week now it has been Palin, Palin, Palin because of three FB statements.
They still continue to call her names and to use the word marginalization but what those three or four clowns can’t get through their pea brains is that the MSM can no longer lie about SP and twist her words because all the people have to do is go read her FB statements.
What say you?

Sarah Palin has the same kind of politial savvy that Glen Beck does and the same sort of entertainment value as Glenn Beck, the Jerry Springer show and Real Housewives of NJ. Which means she’s a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, in our cuulture those kind of people and shows gain traction and can become very, very popular. I confess I see of her as more of a really popular TV show host than a presidential candidate. I’m not sure her narrow island will expand enough to actually elect her to an office such as president. Do her fans really think that’s where she belongs? I can’t see it. But she is charismatic. I don’t understand a lot of what she says– and what I do understand I find highly partisan, divisive and loaded– but I’m not one to deny obvious charisma. Some people love, love, love her.

-Just saw that on Friday we had the BIGGEST bank failure of 2009, and now the FDIC is quickly running out of money as a result.-
Better keep some cash on hand. Possible “bank holiday” soon.
And BH, as Barry himself said, those jobs will not be coming back.

Yeah Skiff, It is. Why? Um, it’s called a horrible recession that we have to weather here. If you guys expected to elect some leader with a magic wand to make this one poof go away then you’re naive. All this whining about Obama not “fixing” this in a nano is just whining over a loss.

The Dirty Blue Dogs they are not Democrats they may as well belong to the Republican party they are so in Bed with The lobbysit its not funny
You mean like lobbyists from drug companies?

Well all right There Box Car I guess Palin is Fit to be President because she made Congress come back from recess and drop the Living Will Provision that Republicans supported in 2003, And Palin set up Health day In Alaska in which it had to do with the so called as she says Death Panels!LIVING WILLS! Yes lets make Sara President for lying and Fueling the Far right Extreme Obama haters! there shes qualified! hahah lol

-Yeah Skiff, It is. Why? Um, it’s called a horrible recession that we have to weather here. If you guys expected to elect some leader with a magic wand to make this one poof go away then you’re naive. All this whining about Obama not “fixing” this in a nano is just whining over a loss.-
Hope and Change and bailouts. We were constantly told how things would be different with Obama. I sure as hell didn’t believe it, but plenty did.

Like I said, upset over a loss. I was told Bush would be a uniter as well, and boy that didn’t turn out well.

Boxcar wrote: “According to WWW and Angie, Palin was responsible for it. But ok, whatever.”
I stand corrected. I should have known better than to think she coined the phrase all by herself.
So, are you still promulgating Palin’s lie about section 1233 having already been removed from HR 3200?

“Get rid of this uneducated whack job from Wasillia. She is so crazeee and
a nut!”
Uneducated is a Harvard graduate with a degree in Constitutional Law who thinks there are 57 states in the Republic.
Uneducated is Harvard graduate who heads up the IRS yet cannot properly pay their fair share of taxes.
Silly people, stupid is from Harvard.

Uneducated is Harvard graduate who heads up the IRS yet cannot properly pay their fair share of taxes.
He went to Dartmouth. And I wouldn’t chalk up his failure to pay taxes as inability.

WWW worte -
Wrong, Stacy. I’ll repost the WHOLE story for your benefit:
“Thirty-five percent (35%) of likely voters now say the United States is heading in the right direction, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey.
That’s up two points from last week and up eight points from the week President Obama took office in January.”
Wrong WWW – allow me to post the rest of the story for you.
“Most voters (60%) continue to believe the nation is heading down the wrong track, although that number is unchanged from a week ago. But it’s down three points from the third week in January.”

-Wasn’t Obama going to severely limit the influence that lobbyists would have when it came time for the decsion making concerning health care reform? Well that has worked out quite well…..(snicker).-
He was supposed to do lots of things. Luckily we’ve got Sara Palin to kick around!

-Obama’s administration put all of their people thru the most scrutiny ever done. Hence the issues. I suppose my point would be the crooks got by with this back during Bush.-
Sometimes stuff just slips by I guess. Oh well…

College – Bush didn’t even glance at the taxes. You see how this works?

“College – Bush didn’t even glance at the taxes. You see how this works?”
Glad you pointed that out. I guess that makes it OK then.

SYN
No it has nothing to do with Obama Palin has Proven Herself to be a Hateful Reckless bumbiling Idiot Ha Ha

“queen of a narrowing island.”??
The death panels are GONE.
Palin shoots. She scores!

I missed it Congress came back and Dropped the Living will Provision? Oh wait I dont live in Saras World, or Fox news world my bad!

Mittsgirl
Sara Palin put FEAR In Old Senior Citizens which is Disgusting! All the Democrats are trying to do is TELL THE TRUTH THE FACTS Something the Republicans have a hard time doing!

Let’s get this straight.
When Frank, Dodd, Pelosi and Reid sit and determine what care you are going to get at the end of your life based on economics you have a death panel.
I’d like to see news people spending fraction of this time on the growing pile of promises Obama has reneged on.
I went to C SPAN to find the negotations with drug companies Obama promised would be there.
They knew nothing about it.
But hey, let’s focus on Palin. She’s not even a Governor any more.
Could stupidity and bias be any more blatant?

The Death Panel thing made up by republicans is
A living will Provision in which Medicare will PAY for you To speak with your Doctor on how you want your LIFE TO END YOU! YOU MAKE THE CHOICE. The Republicans have took that provision and twisted Into Fear Mongering the Elderly to kill the Bill what a Pathetic rotten thing to do!

good deal,on FACEBOOK, SARAH PALIN can speak for herself. people can read EXACTLY what PALIN says on facebook with out going through the cross-eyed distortions of katie couric and tina fey and huff and puffington.

WWW | Aug 16, 2009 8:08:29 PM Er, mittsgurl, that was interesting. However, it does nothing to change what I posted or make it wrong in any way..
35% of voters think the country is going in the right direction, up 8 points since Obama took office,+++++So 65% or better known as the overwhelming majority, think its going in the wrong direction. I would keep an eye on BO’s approval rating if I were you.

A response to Jan/Palin regarding Dr. Emanuel’s complete lives theory.
The first sentence of Dr. Emanuel’s 1/31/2009 Lancet article reads “Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge.”
It is in that context of extreme situations like organ transplants that Dr. Ezekiel proposed the “complete lives situation.” He is talking about a specific, unusual situation, not healthcare in general, as he reiterated to Jake in an interview at this blog.
Emanuel’s theory was to be applied to a situation such as the following: If there are two patients who need a liver, and only one liver available at the moment, do you give it to the 98 year old great grandparent, or the 45 year old mother of five?
If you can’t discuss that situation without labelling the decision-makers part of a “death panel,” as Sarah Palin and her followers have done, then you are really undermining constructive, reasonable debate on the subject.

Does anybody honestly think during a nasty recession the country would sound positive while polled about what direction it was going in?
We have short memories. Let’s see where we’re at a year from now.

If you can’t discuss that situation without labelling the decision-makers part of a “death panel,” as Sarah Palin and her followers have done, then you are really undermining constructive, reasonable debate on the subject.
Yes, Palin is the reason why this isn’t working out for liberals. She’s a marginal figure, of no importance and a dunce as well and we shouldn’t spend any time even thinking about her or holding discussions about her or visiting her website… I’m glad that liberlas feel that way because it focuses their attention away from actually doing anything concrete.

“good deal,on FACEBOOK, SARAH PALIN can speak for herself. people can read EXACTLY what PALIN says on facebook with out going through the cross-eyed distortions of katie couric and tina fey and huff and puffington.”
Mercy, Mercy Mercy, Sarah Palin’s latest Facebook message starts off with yet another lie: “I join millions of Americans in expressing appreciation for the Senate Finance Committee’s decision to remove the provision in the pending health care bill that authorizes end-of-life consultations (Section 1233 of HR 3200).”
The senate did NOT remove section 1233 from HR 3200. They removed it from THEIR version of the bill.

Obama’s poll numbers will be in the single digits by the end of 2010.
Liberals will still blame Palin.

-Obama’s poll numbers will be in the single digits by the end of 2010.
Liberals will still blame Palin.-
Perfect. This will work out better than ever.

Mr.Obama and Dr. Emanuel have spoken repeatedly about panels of “experts” who would, inescapably, have the power to make life-or-death decisions concerning the elderly, persons with dementia, those with poor prognoses and those who cannot be “participating citizens” (no word thus far on whether a Down’s Syndrome baby is in the latter category). Since Obama has yet to publish his plan–if on exists–we really have no way of knowing whether it would include such panels or not. But if it does, calling them “death panels” would be much closer to the truth than the catchy “Bush lied, people died.” And if that phrase, coined by a plebean bimbo from the frontier, has contributed to the defeat of the current bill, it is condign punishment for those who stooped to that slander.

“I never said the statistic was wrong – just incomplete. And afterall, it was you who claimed to be posting the ‘WHOLE story’.”
Oh for the love of pete, mittsgurl, I DID post the whole story regarding the number of voters who think this country is going in the right direction. Should I also have posted ALL categories on that page: women, men, and African-Americans? Sheesh!

“I’m glad that liberlas feel that way because it focuses their attention away from actually doing anything concrete.”
__________________________
Actually the subject on which Palin may have helped win a minor tactical victory is a small side issue. Went to a town hall meeting yesterday in California with healthcare refomr supporters outnumbering belligerent deathers and other reform opponents by about 147 – 8.
Those who brought up the ideas that the Palin fans are mentioning here were virtually laughed out of the hall.
The healthcare reform opponents here seem to have no interest in covering people with pre-existing conditions, or reducing the outrageous costs of COBRA. That is sad.
The sound thinking of reasonable Americans will hopefully put this eruption of vile rhetoric from the hateful extremists in its place, in time.

“Since Obama has yet to publish his plan–if on exists–we really have no way of knowing whether it would include such panels or not.”
Then why did Sarah call it “Obama’s death panel”?

Danny -
Let me say that I agree with Ed Gillespie’s labeling of the term “death Panels” as evocative – it conjures certain negative images. I also agree with Mr. Gillepie that both parties have used “evocative language” with regard to the healthcare debate, including the administration.
You stated -
“The first sentence of Dr. Emanuel’s 1/31/2009 Lancet article reads “Allocation of very scarce medical interventions such as organs and vaccines is a persistent ethical challenge.”
It is in that context of extreme situations like organ transplants that Dr. Ezekiel proposed the “complete lives situation.” He is talking about a specific, unusual situation, not healthcare in general…”
The opening paragraph of Emmanuel’s paper states -
“In health care, as elsewher, scarcity is the mother of allocation. Although the extent is debated, the scarcity of many specific interventations – including beds in intensive units, organs, and vaccines during pandemic influenza – is widely acknowledged”
I don’t consider ICU beds or vaccines to be, as you stated, “unusual situations”.
The article goes on to discuss methodologies for allocating resources – lottery, priority, utiltity and social usefulness. It is Dr. Emanuel’s thoughts on these methodologies that have caused concern for many Americans – especially older Americans.

‘Then why did Sarah call it “Obama’s death panel”?’
He wanted the bill.
He presses to have it passed.
It was his inspiration.
It’s HIS bill.

how’d i guess bill clinton would be pushing the health bill! lol they are soooo predictable. don’t think the great korean rescue was carried out with just the right timing… hmmmm….

Sheesh, WWW. Stacy missed your statistic by 2% and you found it necessary to post the WHOLE story. :-)

If Barack Obama can throw his “typical white person” grandma under the bus, why does anyone think he really cares about the quality of their healthcare?
Obama cares about one thing – his place in history as the 21st century’s “transformative” president.
Have you white-guilt liberals figured it out yet? Obama is all about OBAMA. It was always about him. You’re living in his world, and he’s laughing at you.

danny says: “The healthcare reform opponents here seem to have no interest in covering people with pre-existing conditions, or reducing the outrageous costs of COBRA. That is sad.”
This is simply false. There have been several proposals put out by conservatives to deal with these concerns. The best ideas I have seen is to: 1. Extend the same tax benefit to those who are purchasing health insurance for themselves as those who receive it through an employer 2. Reduce the amount of mandated coverage in insurance plans and allow people to buy a plan that targets their needs 3. make health insurance similar to term life insurance where they have guaranteed renewal for a certain length of time and it cannot be canceled if they get sick 4. open insurance plans to people in other states
If we do some of these things we can break the health insurance tie to an employer and make it portable so it is easier to move and change jobs without worrying about pre-existing conditions.
If we get rid of a lot of the current government regulation it will be less expensive for companies to administer insurance plans and for doctors to file for reimbursements and health care will become more affordable. If we encourage HSA’s then people will be more judicious about how they spend their money but will still be able to afford a catastrophic coverage plan. There are lots of ways we can tweak the current system without completely destroying a system that a majority of Americans prefer to a government administered program.

“If these concerns were upsetting to people, and, as I understand it, there were concerns about the costs of this counseling program, better to eliminate it.”…………. Such programs have shown to save money actually. Most of us choose limits at the end. That is why I’m hacked off they might drop it.

Boxcar wrote: “Uh, Sebelius said on ABC evening news that that section is pretty much dead and will be removed PERIOD.”
Hmm, as of this morning she said the provision would “probably be off the table” in final version. In any case, that still doesn’t change what Palin said on Thursday about the Senate deciding to remove the provision from HR 3200. That is a lie.

“No doubt she called it “Obama’s death panel” because he has spoken frequently on the desirability of panels that can very reasonably be called exactly that.”
But Sarah started off her statement by saying “As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no, but hell no!”
Doesn’t that suggest that “Obama’s death panel” already exists somewhere within the plan?

WWW | Aug 16, 2009 9:03:40 PM In any case, that still doesn’t change what Palin said on Thursday about the Senate deciding to remove the provision from HR 3200. That is a lie.+++++Kind of sounds like she already had gotten word that the democrats, Sebelius, where going to completely drop it before the MSM reported it. But I’m sure you are right. The dems never lie……LOL

Hello Fascist Hyena:
If it came about because they lost their job and had been covered by employer-provided insurance (a practice that has arisen entirely from an earlier ingenious intervention by the congress), they are entitled to our concern, and there are any number of measures that could ease their problem.
______________________________________
So what measures would you propose for insuring people with pre-existing conditions who met your criteria of deserving concern, especially those with limited income?

How did the Senate remove a section of the bill AFTER they went on recess? And if they did it BEFORE they left town, that was also before Ms. Palin or her speechwriter had this brainstorm to call a needed, VOLUNTARY counseling session with a health care professional, not some nefarious government agent, “a required death panel.” How stupid are people? Are you so afraid of a black President who didn’t come through the country club ranks maybe dipping into the dollars Bush gave you back? He did nothing for the rest of us, and he cared nothing about the disadvantaged or the poor. 18,000 Americans died last year due to lack of insurance and proper medical care…but I guess that’s OK with the Christian Republicans out there who are only worried about their wallets and the unborn. The US is lagging badly in health care and even in longevity…we are now below many nations. But that too, is OK with Republicans, as long as they have health care and a job. Good luck to you when you lose either and we don’t fix this!

When did the facts stop being relevant?
Sarah Palin is a figment of the media in a slow month
As Gov of Alaska she had an official HEALTH DAY for older Alaskans to get end of life counseling -
This is no diff than the republicans who voted in 2003 as part of the (unpaid) prescription drug plan than people are entitled to end of life counseling
Are these people not embarrassed in the least by their lying on issues – serious issues of upmost concern to all of us
It is a very sad day in this country that screaming overtakes common sense and we cant even have a healthy dialogue about something that is broken and is 16% of this country’s GDP–
There is no Presidential Bill – there are bills from three committees in the house and so far two in the senate – and all that will be merged and purged
The only TRUTH I heard on TV today was on MTP when Oklahoma Senator Coburn said none of this is really about the healthcare debate — and it isn’t
It is about hate
And ignorance
and fear

Whether people with pre-existing comditioms should be entitled to purchase “insurance” at the same price as others depends in large part on how they came to be uninsured. If it came about because they lost their job and had been covered by employer-provided insurance (a practice that has arisen entirely from an earlier ingenious intervention by the congress), they are entitled to our concern, and there are any number of measures that could ease their problem. But to mandate simply that no one with a ore-existing condition can be denied coverage is simply cuckoo……………………. Such a Christian nation I live in. This is cold. I care about these people.

“I am pleased that most of the rational discussion of the current proposlas has come from the opponents, whereas the proponents tend to be hysterical, uninformed and evasive.”
Again, total baloney. It’s the OPPONENTS that are yelling hysterically and are either completely uninformed or have intentionally embraced the blatant lies.

Sarah had enough gumption to read the bill and comment. I wonder just how much of the bill Congress has read. I find it quite interesting to watch the hypocrisy of the Left where they cried Governor Palin doesn’t have the experience to be VP, but thought that a Junior Senator who made a speech was more qualified. The executive experience in itself is non-comparable and her ability to narrow the debate to the heart of the matter is political genius. She is a force to be reckoned with and I guess that’s why the Left chose to file so many frivolous ethics complaints to hopefully marginalize her influence. While I’m sad that she resigned, I totally understand why she would not want to waste government time and money. She knew if she made a run for POTUS and left Alaska the Left would try to make hay. She will make her way and many Americans regard her as a great American and patriot. I know I certainly do.

WWW | Aug 16, 2009 9:35:35 PM You still don’t get it. Sarah Palin said on Thursday that the SENATE was removing the provision from HOUSE bill HR 3200. That is a LIE.++++++++++So?? She is a private citizen now. It’s not like she stood in front of the nation as president and said “I did not have sex with that woman”. Or the half dozen or so issues that BO campaigned on that he has backed out of now.

Sarah Palin did it again. when she talks, people listen! She is, far and away, the most popular political person out there! And only getting bigger! Get ready to get Palinized! Go Sarah!

“Sarah had enough gumption to read the bill and comment. I wonder just how much of the bill Congress has read.”………… O.K. this is toooo funny.

Yeah, The Heritage Foundation isn’t some far right site. Oh wait, yes it is.
I’ve got your defense. The death panel thing was included in the 2003 republican pill bill. Oopsie.

It makes perfect sense that Sarah is in the news.July and August are traditionally slow news months.

WWW – This is where they’ll argue she did not get found guilty of anything. Because she told them so.

stop giving her headline space and give it to something of importance..her opinion shouldnt even matter, especially polotics, she has proven she cant handle polotics…

Someone is actually suggesting she is “crazy like a fox”?
She is an absolute wacko.
I would be worried about her children. Someone making comments like she does is not in touch with reality.She sees death panels that dont exist and kills from a helicopter and she isnt off her rocker?

WWW | Aug 16, 2009 9:59:01 PM Look, I never said I was a big Palin fan. She didn’t run for president.I will say this , Biden is just as dense if not more than she is. Having him as Prez, if anything ever happened to BO, and we would all be up a creek without a paddle. BO talks about boogymen and she is the Dems boogeyman and it is funny to watch the left go nuts over her. The MSM keeps her in the spotlight as target practice for the left and it bit them in the butt.By the way, if the dems had not written parts of this bill so poorly and vague none of this would be an issue. The bill needs to be rewritten. It’s their own fault.

If Sarah Palin is so irrelevant now, why do Democrats expend so much energy vilifying her? I never thought she was that great, but she must have something that scares the beejesus out of the Dems.

It’s like rubbernecking. When you go past that car wreck and can’t help but look back.

“but she must have something that scares the beejesus out of the Dems.”
-You wish. Palin is only as scary as Rush could possibly be. She’s a political corpse–just another loudmouth now. Go ahead nominate her as a candidate for any high office, I would double dog dare you. She’ll never win after bailing on her state the way she did.

Fascist Hyena–
The AMA published something called “answers to frequently asked questions” about HR 3200. If you google all of those key words–AMA, HR3200, and the title, you should find it (it’s a pdf). While they don’t defend all provisions of the bill and treat it as a work in progress, they clearly support it as a whole and defend it fairly strongly.
I suppose much of the bill will be moot if the co-ops solution prevails, but it may be a worthwhile read.
I’d still be curious to hear how you’d like to help folks with pre-existing conditions who are currently barred from buying private insurance, especially those who cannot afford high premiums.
This, to me, is the most serious gap in our current system. As you probably know, there are a lot of people not poor enough for gov’t assistance yet not able to afford COBRA or the high premium policies for “high risk” folks.

“Go ahead nominate her as a candidate for any high office, I would double dog dare you. She’ll never win after bailing on her state the way she did.”
Why do you care?

Danny–thank you for your response. I am finished for the night, but will try to take a look at the AMA analysis tomorrow. And I will describe some sensible proposals I have seen for addressing the issue of prw-existing conditions. As I mentioned earlier, there is not a great deal of sympathy for those who can afford insurance, but elect not to seek it until the need for care arises. But there are others who are not at fault at al, and whose predicament has been caused by other, previous governmental interventions that can be remedied pretty easily.

“Because right-wingers spend so much time foolishly glorifying her.”
Doesn’t say much for liberals, now does it?

Skip | Aug 16, 2009 10:59:52 PMOn a related topic: Why do right-wingers spend so much time vilifying Obama?++++++++I’m not a right winger but as an observer and I’ll admit not a big BO fan, but your have short term memory if you don’t remember all the rants that still go on in here on a daily basis about our last president who has been gone for months now.

Am I the only person who thinks all this liberal/conservative gunfire and name calling is kind of stupid?

Ivy | Aug 16, 2009 11:24:51 PM Am I the only person who thinks all this liberal/conservative gunfire and name calling is kind of stupid?++++I agree but its fun. I come in here for the entertainment while watching the TV and no its not Fox news I’m watching. :)

If the left wants to spend money so badly on something why don’t they finance COBRA more effectively and lower the cost down to something VERY affordable when someone, through no fault of their own, loses their job? Or am I just crazy?

Asa registered independent voter, I woul say to Sarah Palin:
If you want to be taken as a serious candidate, you should do a little less winking and a lot more studying about international affairs.
As a mother/spokeswoman for the disables, you should do a lot less dragging that infant around as a pro and more studying about how the federal government FUNDS (yes, those evil “socialist”funds) medical, educational,vocational, etc. programs for the disabled!
As a “reformer”, how about less associating with oil companies?

when Biden does the exact same thing its a misstatement or “thats just Joe”. The hypocrisy and double standards just keep coming
.Posted by: Boxcar
well….. when asked what he reads, Biden can give an answer .. also speak on the history of the supreme court decisions,…
Palin to put it as kindly a I can.. makes it up as she goes along ie: ‘death panels’ and generally makes no sense, sort of like that Ms. Teen america contestant’s answer to her final question
you should do a little research about what’s happening now in Alaska and how the state is correcting the damage done by Palin..
you betcha….

Dem controlled House.
Dem controlled Senate.
Dem in the White House.
Embattled, vilified Repb. ex-governor of the smallest state in the U.S. blows over the health care house of cards with a few Facebook posts and comes out the hero.
The left has only themselves to blame.

I am fascinated by the Sarah Palin’s eyeglasses.

“She is outsmarthing everyone”
I’d be surprised if Palin ever actually outsmarted anybody. She’s a trained hood ornament who can barely successfully repeat back what she has been trained to say. If like many of us you think her TV interviews were painful to watch, I bet her coaches were sitting on the edge of their seats holding their breath.

ummm, why is ABC still talking about Palin? Seriously.

US people didn’t learn their mistake of voting Bush. They now do the same mistake for Palin.

Sarah Palin was not characterizing the end-of-life counseling as a “death panel.” The “death panel” is the panel of government-ordained experts, that President Obama said he was going to appoint in order to ration out healthcare to those they think deserve it most.
President Obama stated, “…the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.” Then he added, “certainly [is] true when it comes to Medicare and Medicaid, where the taxpayers are footing the bill and we have an obligation to get those costs under control.”
President Obama stated, “(T)here is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place.” Followed with, “And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance.”
So this independent group of experts will be deciding the fate of patients’ care. THUS the term “death panel.”

THUS the term “death panel.”
Posted by: James Danley
THUS the term: dope
you haven’t gotten around to blaming Obama for Sept 11th, yet…. we’re waiting….

Those of you that criticize Palin repeating the same media spin talking points about her..are just drones..repeating what the media has drilled into your heads…wake up and see for yourself..this woman makes alot of sense…if only you listen to her and stop listening to what the media says about her..big difference. She made a very good argument to defend her claim of death panels..using specific qoutes from pages in the house bill (which means she actually read the bill unlike most of you criticizing her here)

There must be death panels at every health insurance company then. How many Americans have suffered death by bottom line?

The left in the time of Kennedy was the party of intellect and reason. It is disturbing that the primary vehicle of the left these days is personal attacks.
Palin is an easy target for the misogynists. Of course, since Clinton the standard attack on women is “nuts and/or sluts”.
The plan presented by John Mackey of Whole Foods fame is in fact a very good plan. He was shouted down. His plan is to create health saving accounts and use high deductible insurance to pay for everything not covered by the savings accounts. Consumers would know the cost of office visits and market forces would drive down prices. Covers everyone and reduces costs.
Instead of arguing the points of his thoughtful essay, he was attacked.

Skips argument is that Palin is some how deficient and from that he can safely ignore her argument. Argue the points if you can.
Palin with a simple post changed the bill. It is difficult to explain that set of events without including that she said something that was revealing.
I think America is sick of the name calling as a method to win arguments.

Ok, so some of you really think it is her talking? Please, she still is the same puppet being utilized to infiltrate and make Obama look bad. There is still an agenda going and she is the vehicle..
They are doing all the can, including put lots of money to push here into our minds, because of course she should be the next President, did I say puppet already?
I’m really sick of people not thinking clearly, or should I just say I am sick of SHEEPs..

Listen, guys . . . Apart from cable news, no one takes Palin serious. She has her supporters, but most people think she’s nuts.
She’s not the next President, and she’s not the new voice of the Republican party.
Someone a few posts back tried to justify Palin’s comments by cobbling together a few out of context snippets.
Whether you’re the kind of crazy who believes the President is sending men in black coats to euthanize grandma, or you’re the kind of crazy who thinks the conspiracy is a little more subtle, you’re still crazy.
B.T.W. What happened to the Republican party? What happened to the right?
Sara Palin?
Glen Beck?
Do you guys want to be taken seriously or not?

Well, if we’re going to talk about doctors, then you should start by saying how difficult it’s for doctors to also work under the insurances policies…
Besides, I’m mostly talking about games insurances play…In case you didn’t noticed the real content of the message.
If, if we really care about our doctors, we then should be talking single payer…
Why, because it reduces their expenses to run their own offices…
look that up too…

Concern what difference does it make if it is Palin or Kermit the Frog speaking if we are arguing the points. Palin’s note uncovered flaws in the current version of the bill. That is obvious to all as the places she pointed out were removed after her note.
I personally believe that we have to fix the insurance mess for patients and doctors in order to reduce medical costs. The insurance companies are not going to like that. The trial lawyers are not either.

Concern – sorry you have no point if you are saying calling a person one name rather than another is a way to elucidate your argument. If you argue your point rather than calling people names you will be a lot more successful.
For example, you might say that a government run single payer system will be more efficient because the number of bureaucrats will be reduced. That is an interesting argument and one which we could all debate.
Saying some one is a toad or that their family are reprobates does not win any argument. Further it reflects poorly on the one arguing the point. That diminished respect tends to lose arguments and bring the dialog to a low level.

Concern – we are in agreement that the problem is an insurance mess. Thank you for the note by the way.
The insurance companies are making money at both ends of the medical care business – patients and doctors. We as patients have no idea what health care costs. I asked the other day what a simple checkup would cost and no one could tell me – and they worked on an answer for half an hour. We cannot reduce those costs if we do not know what they are. John Mackey is right on the mark with his essay about that.
Doctors costs are way too high as well as we know in Japan they pay 1/3 what we do by simply setting doctors fees. They can do that as they also have tort reform that keeps doctors insurance down. Liberal in congress are not even mention the term torte reform.

So far it’s my understanding that one of the best healthcare systems ran in the world is Taiwan. Not I am not saying this because I know it, and I am hoping I am remembering the exact country, but if that’s true, I pretty much think we can adopt a method, a system that seems to be working…Truth is insurances are there to PROFIT, to profit from our health needs, and I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’s right! We as human beings are born with rights, and I think if we have environmental issues due to mass production then we are victims and we shouldn’t be penalized for needing medical attention…
And if some of you don’t understand where I am coming from, I’m talking about toxicity…like xenoestrogens, the use of artificial hormones, pesticides, preservatives, msg’s etc…
Story short, to have a great nation, we need healthy citizens…A great nation requires healthy workers, happy people in order to keep being on top….

Watch it Reminder, they may just label you as a lefty for pointing out the obvious, for thinking and reasoning…
Hmm, I guess they are saying that righty’s don’t think, reason or see clearly…
Who knows, but I like your post…Thumbs up..

I want a public option and I want those public officials that are shamefully doing this to stop saying ridiculous lies because it is embarrassing to the world when the lies are so blatant. UPS, Fed ex are doing fine against USPS. There are NO death panels. Get a grip.

I am looking for the contact site for the blog but I get a lot of news contact sites. Anyone know where I can ask how someone else’s post got attributed to me?

Regarding end of life consultations, Sarah Palin quotes Charles Lane of The Washington Post: “To me, ‘purely voluntary’ means ‘not unless the patient requests one.’ Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive — money — to do so. Indeed, that’s an incentive to insist.”
Where does sec 1233 cover the topic of who initiates the “chat”? And will the medicare payment really be large enough that doctors would “insist” on counseling reluctant patients?
Lane goes on: “Once they’re in the meeting, the bill does permit ‘formulation’ of a plug-pulling order right then and there.”
Not exactly. What 1233 says is: “A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.” So if the patient wants his plug pulled … fine. If he doesn’t … fine. If he wants antibiotics, or an IV or a feeding tube, that’s all fine. It’s the individual’s choice. And the doctor will NOT get a bigger payment from medicare for trying to steer the patient toward plug-pulling.
Sarah also quotes columnist Eugene Robinson: “If the government says it has to control health-care costs and then offers to pay doctors to give advice about hospice care, citizens are not delusional to conclude that the goal is to reduce end-of-life spending.” Although Sarah didn’t quote his next sentence, Robinson went on to say: “It’s irresponsible for politicians, such as Sarah Palin, to claim — outlandishly and falsely — that there’s going to be some kind of ‘death panel’ to decide when to pull the plug on Aunt Sylvia.”

Obama may have won the election but he lost us independents who voted for him.
He ran as a centrist and is now implamenting very far left policies. Just look at the people he has appointed and some of their earlier writings. He has really disappointed may of those who took a chance on him.

“Doctors costs are way too high as well as we know in Japan they pay 1/3 what we do by simply setting doctors fees.”
Who runs to Japan for treatment?
How about we set your salary as well?
Most people are overpaid. If government could set ALL salaries I know I’d be paying less for commodities and services.
Right?

In case you were wondering if the protests were even about health care….
This the headline of one of the top conservative blogs: “What Will Be the Next ‘Health Care Reform’ We Can Beat?”
For conservatives, this is and always has been about regaining lost seats from last election.
If 43 million Americans have to go without insurance, if thousands are being dropped from their coverage each day, if thousands of sick people are being bumped off insurance plans for “preexisting conditions”… the GOP has only one concern:
How many seats can we pick up in 2010?
People ask, How can they lie about the “death panels”? Lying about death panels is no big deal if you are willing to let thousands of people die for lack of adequate medical care.

Barack Obama is now using Switzerland as the country whose health care we should emulate.
The state of Virginia has more residents than Switzerland.
Sarah Palin has been raked over the coals for lesser statements.
She has brought attention to a part of the bills that should give us all pause.
And, by Congress taking that alarming language out of the bill, she has been proven correct.
When will the press stop carrying water for President Neophyte?

Government-run health care has failed in Massachusetts and Oregon.
The Feds cannot fix Medicare.
What makes anyone think Obama can do better? What is Obama’s history of cutting costs on anything???
His answer to too much spending was to quadruple the deficit. One can only imagine the damage he’d do to our health system.

Fact: I watched in utter amazement in a town hall meeting in South Carolina at a Senior citizen scream, “Keep the government’s hands off my Medicare”..LMAO. Senator Jim DeMint kindly responded that the Government was providing him Medicare. I shouldn’t have been surprised as SC has the most poorly ignorant majority Republican electorate in the South

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” – Voltaire
who knew,.. he was predicting republican sentiment in 2009 America…..

“blows over the health care house of cards with a few Facebook posts and comes out the hero.”
How so?

btw;
there is no final version of the heath care reform bill… anyone claiming success or failure on their side of the political spectrum is premature at best..

Trotsky. No conservative would consider a vote for this lying Marxist.
Posted by: LogicalSC
‘they take pride in their own ignorance’… B.H. Obama
amazing how often this one sentence is proved true here.

……it must mean that Amercia wants socialized medicine. Posted by: BH
..why isn’t getting rid of medicare, medicade, social security the primary message of the republicans and conservatives… if that’s how america feels, as you indicate… republicans would be a ‘shoo-in’ for the next election cycle..
why isn’t this the new platform of the republicans and why are they not running on it right now..

So is it a lie to reiterate what President Obama said … Posted by: James Danley
of course it’s a lie, especially the way you have re-framed it to fit your doom and gloom rant… you keep repeating it, .. along with ‘mission accomplished’
you can make a new version of ‘soylent green’..that’s what’s Obama’s has in store for america next …..right?

James Danley, can tell me where these death panels are represented in HR3200?

James Danley writes: “The “death panel” is the panel of government-ordained experts, that President Obama said he was going to appoint in order to ration out healthcare to those they think deserve it most.”
____________________________________
In James’s post, he refers to Obama’s interview from the NY Times in April in which he talked about the need to have the healthcare reform conversation include guidance from experts on how to address the huge costs of care for the terminally ill. Mature discussions on this subject could be difficult, however, in a politically charged atmosphere.
Some right wing sources inflame this situation, in part, by leaving out the end of Obama’s full thought:
“And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.”
So the President was simply speculating about an advisory group with no authority that could address these issues as part of the overall conversation about healthcare reform.
It takes quite a bit of misreading to turn that into a death panel.
The distorted concept of “death panels” come from propagandists, not in a bill before Congress.
HR 3200, the House’s healthcare reform bill, would set up an oversight commission and a comparative effectiveness research Center (which is heartily endorsed by the Consumer Union, the publisher of Consumer Reports, to provide unbiased medical information to consumers).
The bill establishing these reads, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the Commission or the Center to mandate coverage, reimbursement, or other policies for any public or private payer.” (HR 3200, page 524).
That really doesn’t sound like a “death panel” to me.
The right wing position on these issues assumes a secret, evil unwritten plan behind the actual words and facts.
Yet the actual, real plan has the American Medical Association on board (not exactly a liberal organization, by the way…).

Shomida Panels, of course Congress isn’t going to include a provision entitled “Death Panels.” The point is, this panel does not HAVE to be in HR 3200 or any other legislation. President Obama only needs to sign an executive order creating the panel.

The point is, this panel does not HAVE to be in HR 3200 or any other legislation. President Obama only needs to sign an executive order creating the panel.
Posted by: James Danley
your post, reflects substantial paranoia which does not bear out in the real world…. this is what republicans/conservatives, ‘free american thinkers’ have come down to.. Obama ‘might’ issue a signing statement and do something ‘bad’..

Whether its called a “Death Panel” or not is a superficial issue. The main issue is that this should be something the family does, not something the government facilitates. In every case of a family member passing from my family, we got together and figured it out… as a family. I couldn’t imagine a government paid counsil coming in to advise us. Its a family decision, government should stay out of it. It would be even more rediculous if the government was paying the medical bills. This is a family issue and it should stay with the family. If the family mishandles it, it’s still the families to fix.

Whether its called a “Death Panel” or not is a superficial issue. The main issue is that this should be something the family does, not something the government facilitates. Posted by: KR
your implication.. that this will be ‘forced’ or a kind of mandated intrusiveness by the federal government is just not borne out in fact

Shomida Panels wrote: “So in other words, we’re doomed no matter what?”
If HR 3200–as it is currently written–is passed and signed into law, yes we may all be doomed to a government controlled single-payer system.

Here’s a hypothetical scenario.
A terminally ill patient with stage four cancer of the esophagus wants to bring his wife to a meeting with his doctor to focus entirely on end of life care.
Opponents of reimbursements for end of life counseling would like to deny the doctor any payment for these services?

“You should have told Sarah Palin that last year when she wrote:”
Again, I don’t care what she wrote. My principle is that government should not be involved in this issue. It’s between the family and the doctors. Why oh why does the government need to be involved in this at all? Why?

So no doctors treating Medicare patients should get reimbursed for end of life counseling meetings?
At all?
What if people don’t have family left due to unfortunate circumstances?

Shomida Panels, there is a difference between raising a public awareness about making end-of-life decisions and actually having legislation that authorizes government agents to provide end-of-life counseling to individual patients. The former points out the importance but leaves the actual counseling decisions in the hands of the patient and his or her family. The latter authorizes government agents to solicit their end-of-life counseling services.

“What if people don’t have family left due to unfortunate circumstances?”
If that person is concious and coherent, it’s their decision. If they are not, then its the decision of the doctor, as it is now and has been.

KR–I have to go to work but may try to give some examples on this thread later.
Not all situations, as I’m sure you understand, are going to be like your family’s situation.
My understanding is that Medicare does have a provision for reimbursing doctors for end of life counseling, but it’s fairly low (I think I remember reading it was about $18).
I also understand that this provision was approved in 2003 by some of the same Republicans now opposing healthcare reform.
Again, I’ll have to fact check.
Though I’ve got to say this Political Punch blog is not the greatest place to have a reasonable, civil conversation.
The few times I’ve had moments of decent exchanges with people “across the aisle”, I’ve seen the goodwill evaporate almost insantly.
It’s sad, but I’m not sure I want to waste my time here anymore.
Though best to you, and thank you for your service to our country.

Common sense tells you that the only reason that there would be a government entity involved in end of life counseling is if the government is paying for the care, which means they would be a person to tell the family that the “government won’t pay for that treatment”, as a steward of government money. That is the only reason for something like this to exist, and we should simply not allow it to exist (I don’t care if Ronald Reagan rose from the dead and wrote this provision, I’d be against it).

“they would be a person to tell the family that the “government won’t pay for that treatment”, as a steward of government money”
So what do call the person that tells the family that the “insurance company won’t pay for that treatment” as a steward of huge corporate profits?

“So what do call the person that tells the family that the “insurance company won’t pay for that treatment” as a steward of huge corporate profits?”
We went through this and fought with the insurance company and won. Fat chance of that with a government beauracrat.

KR wrote: “Like I said earlier, just because a Republican made it doesn’t make it auto-supported by conservatives. Obviously, it didn’t pass with a Republican congress so I’m guessing some conservatives were against it.”
Who said it didn’t pass?

“Who said it didn’t pass?”
If it’s already passed, why is it in this current bill?

Sorry KR, I misread your comment. I thought you were referring to the current provision.

“Sorry KR, I misread your comment. I thought you were referring to the current provision.”
Yeah talking about the similar public provision from 2003 that didn’t pass. I don’t think it made it out of commitmee. The obvious message here is that Republicans didn’t support it or it would have breezed through in 2003.

How can so many quasi smart people be so dumb. Palin’s comments were not about the “end of life counseling”. They were about the panels of “experts” that would determine who was worthy of receiving continued care. The end result was good, in that the verbiage regards end of life was supposedly removed. But Palin’s message was spun by those trying to make her seem to be against what most people would agree is a good thing….end of life planning.

“Only if you are perfectly healthy. There is absolutely no such thing as any competition once you develop any kind of identifiable pre-existing condition.”
It wasn’t the threat of changing the policy of the individual, it was the threat of the company threatening to move their entire company package to another vendor if they failed to support that individual. The company my uncle worked for got involved on his behalf and talked to the insurance company. That company had around 180 employees and the company took up his cause by threatening to change packages if they didn’t support my aunt.
Understandably, not all companies may do this for their employees, but they did and it worked. Replace this with government and this would have no chance of working because there is no pressure that can be put on government.

“We went through this and fought with the insurance company and won. Fat chance of that with a government beauracrat.”
If this is going to come down to a choice between who we trust more and who we think will operate in our best interests, the government or big business, you know who I’m going to choose. You will be hard pressed to overcome the mountain of examples where the government has had to fight tooth and nail against big business to force them to protect our citizens. BTW during this debate you will never hear the term ‘bleeding heart liberal’ from the Right since currently they are trying to convince everybody that the liberals want to pull the plug on grandma. The contradictory derogatory labels are conveniently interchangeable.

The ‘death panels’ aren’t really the end-of-life advisory consultations. There are at least 3 groups whose decisions could result in grandma’s plug being pulled.
The Comparitive Effectiveness Research panel, funded in the stimulus bill. The Health Benefits Advisory Committe, (Sec 123 of HR 3200), and the Health Choices Administration (sec 141).
All of these groups will be seeking to cut costs and “improve efficiency” which may mean providing care for earners at the expense of the very young and old.

I see Big News still can’t figure out why she’s still so popular.

the GOP base will be showing up in Nov 2010. And if we have a true conservative leader in 2012, the base will be out in force once again!
Posted by: James Danley
possibly, but,.. how do you know your ‘true conservative’ will actually be what you think he/she is… esp. in light of GW Bush and the last crop of republicans who, certainly did not act as your stereotypical conservative crowd.
whom do you believe is a ‘true conservative’ with a chance of being elected….?

Friar Tuck, he might not consider himself ready until 2016, but I would place Gov. Bobby Jindal (R-LA) in the upper tier.

“The ‘death panels’ aren’t really the end-of-life advisory consultations. There are at least 3 groups whose decisions could result in grandma’s plug being pulled…”
No, I don’t believe that’s correct. I haven’t seen any of those groups listed on Sarah Palin’s Facebook pages. She did go into some specifics of section 1233 however. She quoted Charles Lane of the Washington Post as saying section 1233 “does permit ‘formulation’ of a plug-pulling order right then and there.”
Of course the bill really says “A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.”
Maybe Sarah’s just confused, like when she said the Senate Finance Committee is removing the end of life provision from HR 3200.

When John Kerry chose not to address outlandish criticism directly it appeared to many people that he was avoiding the argument possibly because he thought he couldn’t win it. It’s just standard procedure now for Obama to directly address all popular challenges.

When John Kerry chose not to address outlandish criticism directly it appeared to many people that he was avoiding the argument possibly because he thought he couldn’t win it. It’s just standard procedure now for Obama to directly address all popular challenges.
Posted by: Skip | Aug 17, 2009 1:05:53 PM
***
Exactly. I totally support the pushback.

Afternoon Alyson. I’m not so sure pushback is the correct course of action. I think a single statement of their position on the matter of consultation, that the claims are unfounded, would suffice. After that, move on to who it will help and why its necessary. I personally do not think its necessary as doctors do and should already provide this information to patients, in the case of wills/financial the government also should not be involved. We don’t want a families responsibility to become the governments.
But outside of that, the administration should be showing why this is a good thing to have and I have yet to hear a reasonable reason why it’s in there.

“I think Obama would like to cut through the meaningless perception management and pure spin that is being belched out by the cable news networks… to actually improve health care for everyone, whatever the cost, even if it costs him his second term.”
I don’t disagree with this. However I think what people disagree on is the method. One side of the camp is for growing the government fiefdom, the other is for preserving the private market based system. The roll of government is regulator, not provider. Market forces are by far more effective than government replication.
And I think that the fact that the bill would not go into effect until after the 2012 elections points to an unwillingness to allow this to impact his re-election bid.

I’m not so sure pushback is the correct course of action. I think a single statement of their position on the matter of consultation, that the claims are unfounded, would suffice. After that, move on to who it will help and why its necessary.
Posted by: KR | Aug 17, 2009 1:23:10 PM
You know, KR, if all the voices out there were as reasonable as you and others like you, I’d agree with you 100%. That’s not the case. I would like to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard. My cousin is very right wing. A huge Palin fan. I have a right wing of my family, and it includes my mom as I’ve said before. She told people at a party that I was an Obama kool aid drinker and I’m sorry but they acted like complete jerks. I STILL get emails from crazy PACs she and her friends signed me up for. I read them now, and see what gets sent out. I was spit on during the campaign. Real experiences inform how we think about these things. To me, there is a rabid wing in both parties, but the rabid wing of the Right actually has gained numbers and been able to bend senators’ ears.
I also think Betsy McCaughey is a discredited liar who has done damage before and managed to gain traction in this debate. And, yes, I’ll confess it irritates me beyond measure. We’ve seen this bad movie before. She managed to make the Clintons look like serial killers via the health care reform package in the 90s. We’ve gone from serial killer to granny killer and death panels. To me, it’s insane — and the insanity won’t be squashed with a statement– although a statement wouldnt be a bad idea.
So anyway. . .
On messaging for health care reform, I agree that it could and should be better. I’ll totally give you that. But I think the pushback is a good idea:)

KR, We’ve disagreed a lot on this blog.
And I don’t expect you to share in my admiration for Obama… or my distaste for the current state of the GOP.
But what about health care? What would it take for us to see eye to eye on health care.
I don’t need single payer.
I don’t need, even, a public plan.
I do not believe that we should bind the discretion of judges and juries by passing “tort reform.”
I do believe that we need to cover everyone.
I do believe that there is waste in the system.
But this waste alone will not account for the costs of covering the tens of millions who aren’t covered.
I would accept co-ops.
What would you find acceptable or unacceptable?

She told people at a party that I was an Obama kool aid drinker and I’m sorry but they acted like complete jerks.
***
Okay, my mom would not be happy if I let it look like I’m talking about her there. Sorry. Bad construction. She is my right wing cousin:)

“I also think Betsy McCaughey is a discredited liar who has done damage before and managed to gain traction in this debate.”
So when does she get her own FoxNews show?

“Posted by: Mayleren | Aug 17, 2009 1:51:35 PM”
Palin has enough issues with her public life.
Leave her family out of it.
Its bad enough they have to live with her.

“But what about health care? What would it take for us to see eye to eye on health care.
I don’t need single payer.”
Agreed, nothing I’ve researched leads me to believe that this is a better system. If anything, it shares the same issues as a private system.
“I don’t need, even, a public plan.”
We already have this pretty much with medicaid for those that qualify. This is why I am a little puzzled with the public plan option. It seems they just want to relax the requirements for who qualifies.
“I do not believe that we should bind the discretion of judges and juries by passing “tort reform.”
I think its more liability insurance reform coupled with tort reform. Most of these nations with single payer do not have legal recourse or liability suits and the costs associated with it. We don’t want that, so we need to standardize how it works imo. To me, it should reflect the disabled vet system. I scale to 100% disability with a cap on loss of life (450k currentl). Standardize it so everyone understands it. Do disagree that torto reform is inneffective. Malpractice insurance for an OBGYN in Dade County is 250k a year, and in Oklahoma 4k a year. Something is a miss in state laws that needs to be figured out.
“I do believe that we need to cover everyone.”
I would change this to everyone needs to cover themselves. I think that since medicaid is there for the qualifed, or destitute, then we are talking about those that don’t qualify, are not destitute. If we have a sytem that forces you into car insurance, possibly looking at this from this same angle? But instead of a fine, how bout a national plan that is bid on, contracted out by the fed, that auto-enrolls people into the plan with failure to have insurance? Basically, they pay for it, be it a tax increase on just those individuals or what have you. Public plan is fine, but it should be pay to play.
“I do believe that there is waste in the system.”
Always will be waste in the systems. Difference is private industries are motivated to remove the waste, government is not.
“But this waste alone will not account for the costs of covering the tens of millions who aren’t covered.”
You’re right. I think we need to look at opt in, pay to play options. If the government told me, hey if you don’t have insurance, and you don’t qualify for medicaid, you’re being auto-enrolled in a government plan and paying for it in taxes, I’d be fine with that. Id prefer it to be contracted on a bid system from private insurers to keep government overhead down and government regulation and accountability up. But it can all be debated.
“I would accept co-ops.”
Have to admit, I’m not up on this. I haven’t researched it much.

Sarah Palin is extremly effective. She is a nothing more than a woman whom you frequently mock as irrelevant. Yet on the other hand, you have a roundtable discussion to talk about her influence.
It would make more sense to have a conference roundtable discussion which begs the question “Why is she so effective?”

” I would like to give folks the benefit of the doubt, but it’s hard.”
It is hard, but its the best way to debate. It’s important that we don’t lose sight of what this is, its purpose, then debate if it should be a government responsibility. While Palin has taken an aggressive stance on it, I don’t think it was necessary. I think the GOP’s position on the debate would be far more effective at just saying that these are family issues and should remain with the family and that’s why they are against it. But that won’t make a round table on ABC. So both sides play the sensationalization game in order to be talked about. It detracts from the issue and it’s up to the more rational among us to not only put forth the rational debate, but also convince our compatriots to do the same.

There is a new Gallup Poll: 40% of the 160,000 individuals polled said they were either “conservative” (31%) or “very conservative” (9%). 21% say they are either “liberal” (16%) or “very liberal” (5%). 35% say they are “moderate.” And according to the Gallup Poll, conservatives now outnumber liberals in all 50 states.

“She is a nothing more than a woman whom you frequently mock as irrelevant. Yet on the other hand, you have a roundtable discussion to talk about her influence.” Posted by: Walsh
It’s hilarious. As she’s the only person to have ever had the temerity to draw a little Obama blood, the Democrats live in fear that someday, somehow, some way, she’ll manage to pull back the curtain on him for good, and their hysteria at the mere sight or sound of her does my heart good.
No, I won’t vote for her in the primaries, but I enjoy her immensely.
Ryan C. regarding the VP debate:
“When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, …”
And no, those weren’t Palin’s immortal words.

She ought to be ashamed of herself. First as a parent and then as a ‘politican”
Posted by: tychisum | Aug 17, 2009 2:44:00 PM
For what? Seriously, get a life and scold your own children or pets, if you have any. obama and his lying dems are OVER and no one wants to hear from them anymore. I’m going over to facebook to have a conversation with Palin and 780 thousand Palin supporters…but I’ll definitely be back to ensure the truth gets written over here.

“Attacking Palin is a diversionary smoke screen. To use a basketball analogy, you don’t commit repeated flagrant foul against an opposing player and expect good sportsmanship in return.”
You got it backwards, though. She has the effect of agitating her supporters and irritating her opponents. In this respect, she is totally effective… in the same way that Cindy Sheehan was effective for a portion of the Liberal base. She can say whatever she wants. She is totally unaccountable. She is definitely the goon.
You call in the thug when you can’t win in a straight game of basketball. In politics, when you can’t win an argument, you try to shut down the debate by telling a stark, frightening lie.
I think the real political problem that Obama has is that he thought everyone cared about health care enough that we could put together a bipartisan bill. He was wrong…. some people could care less about health care. (There are thousands of Trigs aborted each year in the wombs of low income women…. and you don’t need a death panel, all you need is to show her the bill, and the survival instinct handles the rest.)
But, I do think that when her followers start repeating her lies… then you have to answer it directly… because it is steering the debate to the point where we are going to end up with NOTHING. No health care reform. Not this year. Not for another 10 years.
To draw an analogy… most of the Arab world blames Israel for everything. This could only happen because moderate leaders failed to criticize the fringe. The fringe became the conventional wisdom.
Now I believe that people are generally good and intelligent. But if you let a lie go unchecked… And when moderate Republicans start repeating the lie… the result is most people WILL eventually believe the lie.

um, Walsh. Suggest you reread my post.
And barfy, just because people oppose the health care proposals put forth by the House Dems and supported by Obama doesn’t mean they don’t care about health care reform.

“Each of you mock her family, looks etc. But you can not argue what she has said.”
I would not knock her family and her looks are her draw to the right wing (see Rich Lowry).
What has she said?
That the Senate Finance Comintteee has killed a provision in a House bill?
She should read up on how our government actually works before she seeks office to run it.

palin basket month
she has a basket month
she make mc cain to lose the election
she is confused woman
she did not know what she want
All she can do is set confusion

The right-wing was undoubtedly hoping that Sarah would be the successor to Bush. That having failed she has become the successor to Rush.

Sarah Palin is blunt? She’s also selfish, a liar, a quitter, fairweather, unsustainable trouble-maker. This woman is good for nothing but negativity, hate-filled speeches and lying the American people. She loves to talk crap about people behind their backs. Sarah Palin is a big-time loser.

SusanF – Many of us on FB hate her. We’ve also noticed if we try to suggest anything is wrong on there we are immediatley booted off. Not matter how kindly said. Love that free speech.
I agree with the Sarah Palin Constance mentions.
The “dealth panel?” Or should I say appts. to discuss end of life care, DNR’s and living wills? Proven to SAVE MONEY. So if this goes in order to kiss republican fit pitching? Well, you just cost us. Thanks. Sarah just cost us.

At least Camille Paglia @ salon, (a lib), is more honest than most of you posters. She is at least facing and admitting the truth:
Obama’s aggressive endorsement of a healthcare plan that does not even exist yet, except in five competing, fluctuating drafts, makes Washington seem like Cloud Cuckoo Land. The president is promoting the most colossal, brazen bait-and-switch operation since the Bush administration snookered the country into invading Iraq with apocalyptic visions of mushroom clouds over American cities.
There’s much more there in the article wor4th your reading. Forget Palin and look in a mirror. Besides, you’ve got all the Dems you need. Convince them to unite with your plan.

Palin rocks. She handed every Alinskyite on the planet his hat. What a wonderful thing to see.

“Obama’s aggressive endorsement of a healthcare plan that does not even exist yet, except in five competing, fluctuating drafts, makes Washington seem like Cloud Cuckoo Land.”………. What do you think all presidents do? I recall private savings accounts for healthcare form Bush. That didn’t fly. I recall guest worker programs. Didn’t fly. Yup, he traveled and promoted.

“The right-wing was undoubtedly hoping that Sarah would be the successor to Bush. That having failed she has become the successor to Rush.”
Best line on the thread.

This I would argue is already done and is part of the care recieved. I do not think a doctor out there is being asked a question like, what options do we have and the doctor punching a clock and saying, “well, you’re gonna have to pay to hear it”. It’s done already. Prognosis, treatment options, or as in the case of my aunt, the option of hospice at home so she could pass there with her family and be comfortable. All of this was done without consultation fee’s. It was part of the care and should remain there with the doctor and family.
Posted by: KR | Aug 17, 2009 4:12:27 PM
***
I would argue that getting paid for it would be an incentive for doctors to ask patients if they’ve thought about it, and to encourage them to do so. See what I’m saying?

“The right-wing was undoubtedly hoping that Sarah would be the successor to Bush. That having failed she has become the successor to Rush.”
Best line on the thread.
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 17, 2009 4:12:54 PM
***
Okay, now see? I can’t help it. I think that’s pretty good, too. Although, let’s face it, neither of them are benign. They definitely wield influence.
Moving on to James’ gallup numbers– eeeeeek! Just kidding:) As long as there are a sizable number of moderates, I feel good and as long as moderates plus liberals outnumber the very conservative and conservative, I’d say the Dems likely are the majority party as the Republican party keeps moving to the right and the Democrats are becoming the big tent party. But, hey, 2010 is coming and we’ll see. I’d love to know who they polled– if young people were well represented.

“When are J.C. Watts,Sarah, Rush, O’Reilly, Savage, Beck, Alan Keys and the rest of the true conservatives going to break away from the dead Republican party and start a Traditionalist/Constitutional party that we can all get behind.”
I feel really bad for JC Watts being thrown in with the nuts, bigots and loudmouths.

I feel really bad for JC Watts being thrown in with the nuts, bigots and loudmouths.
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 17, 2009 5:12:39 PM
Speaking of nuts, bigots and loudmouths, eight more companies have Eight more Glenn Beck advertisers, including Wal-Mart – the world’s largest retailer – have confirmed to ColorOfChange that they have pulled their ads from his Fox News show.
Per a release from colorofchange–“While advertising on Fox is part of our communication plan, we had not requested time on Glenn Beck’s show specifically,” said Carolyn Castel, Vice President of Corporate Communications for CVS Caremark, in an email to ColorOfChange. “We have instructed our advertising agency to inform Fox to ensure Glenn Beck’s program is not part of our advertising plan.”
“Our position is simple,” Castel continued. “We support vigorous debate, especially around policy issues that affect millions of Americans, but we expect it to be informed, inclusive and respectful, in keeping with our company’s core values and commitment to diversity.”

“Speaking of nuts, bigots and loudmouths, eight more companies have Eight more Glenn Beck advertisers,”
Bill O’Reilly is grinning from ear to ear right now.

“Donna Brazile says Palin used to be for end-of-life counseling, a new Democrat talking point. Not true. What Palin was encouraging was wills and living wills while people were still mentally stable.”
Oh yes, this is so very very very very different from HR 3200′s Advance Care Planning Consultations.
Sarah Palin’s Proclamation: “WHEREAS, Healthcare Decisions Day is designed to raise public awareness of the need to plan ahead for healthcare decisions, related to end of life care and medical decision-making whenever patients are unable to speak for themselves and to encourage the specific use of advance directives to communicate these important healthcare decisions. WHEREAS, in Alaska, Alaska Statute 13.52 provides the specifics of the advance directives law and offers a model form for patient use.”

Sarah wins again!
But didn’t one historian say Obama is the smartest President ever? (How would he know but hey facts are the funniest things.)
Brazile does her best to circle the ponies with a tangent that fails on basic logic but give her credit for trying.

Sarah – who?

Still, health professionals say, these discussions are too rare….
…to have an in-depth end-of-life consultation.”
What exactly is this? What is it that they have to say, that they don’t say? in-depth end-of-life consultation is what exactly? Clearly, there is the family responsibility to make a decision. There is the doctors responsibility, which they do, to notify the family of the prognosis and treatment outcome possibilites. What is missing that needs “consultation” from a doctor? Are they talking about a psycheatric care here? What is this “discussion” exactly?

Sara Palin was for it and there is no way to spin you nutty Repubicans. just like she was for the Bridge to where before she was against.

Excerpt from another article in Kaiser Health News that includes actual wording from section 1233 regarding consultation discussion topics:
Advance Care Planning Consultation
‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:
‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.
‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.
‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.
‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include–
‘(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual’s family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;
‘(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and
‘(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).
Section 1233 goes on to describe how to apply these regulations based on state laws, what the bill means when referring to “practitioners”, how often Medicare will reimburse for a consultation, the effective date of the provisions (Jan. 1, 2011), items on a physician quality reporting initiative and inclusion of language in the “Medicare & You Handbook.”

“He describes such conversations as sensitive and time-consuming since they delve into the “nitty gritty” details: whether patients want to use ventilators to breathe, defibrillation to restart their hearts or feeding tubes for nourishment. He says the discussions are best done with a trusted physician who has developed a relationship with the patients. Family members are also sometimes involved, he says.”
This should be a family matter and it should stay that way. Just my opinion.

I don’t understand the objection to doctors getting paid by Medicare for their services in this area. Some people say they just don’t want government involved. Well then, what about colonoscopies? I do believe Medicare currently pays doctors to perform them. Why isn’t there a big uproar about government being up our behinds? That’s pretty personal too.

“I don’t understand the objection to doctors getting paid by Medicare for their services in this area. Some people say they just don’t want government involved. Well then, what about colonoscopies?”
A family is dealing with the situation of a family member dying, and that equates to a colonoscopy for cancer screening? I don’t see the similarities.

“A family is dealing with the situation of a family member dying, and that equates to a colonoscopy for cancer screening? I don’t see the similarities.”
KR, who said the patient has to be dying?

I don’t know about the American Collage of Surgens, but doesn’t the American College of Surgeons support HR 3200?