Today’s Qs for O’s WH – 8/13/2009

Keep up the good work, Jake. Keep the fire under Obama and his administration. America is tired of his lies about health care reform.

How do you question this man daily and hold it together?

Gibbs is without a doubt the DUMBEST Press Secretary in the modern history of Press Secretaries!!!

Gibbs is without a doubt the DUMBEST Press Secretary in the modern history of Press Secretaries!!!
Posted by: Delaware Vol | Aug 13, 2009 2:40:35 PM
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I totally agree, and Obama is not far behind!

jhw,
sure, the crazies push those things out there…but my concerns are:
healthcare reform should not include gov’t run healthcare.
if they do pass it, how are they going to pay for it? they don’t even know yet…but we’ve got to get this passed!
i’m all for giving it to the legal citizens who actually need it. lose your job, why can’t medicare/medicaid cover you for a certain amount of time until you get back on your feet? key phrase is ‘certain amount of time.’ if you can prove that you can’t afford it, pay in what you can and get covered by medicare/medicaid until you can afford a private plan. keep in mind, if you can afford cable, a cell phone and high-speed internet, you can afford healthcare. people need to get their priorities straight.
seriously, if obama’s concern is how much health care costs, there are other ways than it being gov’t run. i know, i know…your whole ‘every other country does it’ statement is coming…but you know, we’re very different from every other country. there are ways to make private insurance affordable, obama just doesn’t care to hear them.
just my .02

“but my concerns are:
healthcare reform should not include gov’t run healthcare.”
This sentence is in total conflict with the next one.
“i’m all for giving it to the legal citizens who actually need it. lose your job, why can’t medicare/medicaid cover you for a certain amount of time until you get back on your feet?”
Medicare/Medicaid is a government run healthcare.

See liberal blogger Mickey Kaus’s take today on the death panels. He gives you the quotes from Obama himself that lead to that characterization.
The great error Obama and his toadies are making today is to assume that anyone who is against the current proposal must not understand it. Wrong. We understand it fully, and we do not like it at all. There are abundant very good reasons to dislike it, and Senators and congressmen who do not wake up to that fact will find themselves in serious trouble.
Polls coming out today are extremely bad for Obama. More voters (44%) now trust the GOP on health care than Democrats (41%). Altogether a remarkable shift.

“See liberal blogger Mickey Kaus’s ”
Liberal blogger?
Mickey Kaus’s pet issue is welfare reform.
He’s more of Blue Dog if he’s a Democrat at all.
“Polls coming out today are extremely bad for Obama. More voters (44%) now trust the GOP on health care than Democrats (41%).”
Yes from Rasmussen who overweighs GOP voters.
More voters trust Obama than they do the Republicans on a variety of issues.
See Q poll.

“The great error Obama and his toadies are making today is to assume that anyone who is against the current proposal must not understand it. Wrong. We understand it fully,”
Which is why seniors on Medicare are railing against government healthcare.
Though I would agree that right wingers fear for the insurance industries profits as they know how popular Medicare is and that a public option would likely engender the same popularity.

Mr. Gibbs appears to have difficulty completing a full sentence. This certainly is a trait that one would wish for in a Press Secretary, isn’t it?

I liked what Dennis Miller said about Gibbs.. paraphrased..
..Gibbs makes Scott McClelland look like Robert Oppenheimer…
Thanks Jake Tapper… you are all we have left in that press room.. thanks for your bravery and tenacity.

Generic:” The WH has been incoherent and so have the “reformers.”"
Your inability to comprehend the publicly available and exhaustively detailed bills reflects poorly on your ability to be coherent, not the Whitehouse’s.

Wow. Tapper, you rock.

“We understand it fully, and we do not like it at all. ”
Investors Business Daily on the evils of nationalized healthcare (which NO ONE is proposing in any of the current bills):”People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.”
Yeah, they sure understand it. They just didn’t realize that for the last 60+ years, Hawking has had an excellent chance under the care of the NHS. Arguing with ignorance and volume – you look stupid, prove yourself stupid, but you can shout down anyone pointing it out.

“Private health insurers agree with you. Folks like poor ‘ol Unitedhealth, who made $859 million in profit in the last 3 month quarter (that’s around $3 billion a year in profit for that single insurance company).”
Out of 115 billion annual payouts. Thats a whopping 2.6% profit margin! Those thieving bastards!

“Your inability to comprehend the publicly available and exhaustively detailed bills reflects poorly on your ability to be coherent, not the Whitehouse’s.”
Yes, I’m incoherent, blah, blah…Like I said, Gibbs doesn’t even know the WH position. Barney Frank says one thing, the WH another. John Conyers hasn’t bothered to even read the bill. Obama hasn’t either. The WH has allowed themselves to be rattled by the weak, pathetic GOP.

Gibbs, glibs, gibbs, glibs, gibbs, glibs……

“my full family health is 310/month”
Kaiser did a study recently on employer provided benefits.
“In 2008, employer health insurance premiums increased by 5.0 percent – two times the rate of inflation. The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.”
For the self employed.
In 2005 “According to a study by the Henry J. Kaiser family foundation, the self-employed pay an average of $9,068 per year for health insurance.”

“Posted by: jhw539 | Aug 13, 2009 3:29:05 PM”
And Betsy McCaughney the lady behind the death panels also said the stimulus bill created a panel of doctors to restrict medical treatment.
Of course the panel she supposedly had discovered in the stim had been created in 2005 by Bush.
I wonder how much the inusrance companies pay her.

This is a case where Gibbs shouldn’t be dodging the issue – the problem isn’t “misconceptions,” it is bought-and-paid-for LIES.
Posted by: jhw539 | Aug 13, 2009 2:38:02 PM
Yes, and then he can answer the question: If the public plan is “just another option,” why are there so many different ways you can lose your own plan and be forced onto the public plan with no choice?
Jake, you should ask that question, list all the ways and ask again how does make this “just another option.”
So is that a “lie” too, jhw539?

“Out of 115 billion annual payouts. Thats a whopping 2.6% profit margin! Those thieving bastards!”"
United Health recently settled a backdating stocks issue for nearly $1B.
So yeah they are thieving bastards.

“I’m amused that you are using one of the GOP’s weakest and most pathetic talking points:”
It grows more pathetic and weak by the day. Didn’t Boehner say he has not read it?
Have you seen the GOP healthcare plan that just needed finishing touches 3 weeks ago?

“Rather broad assumption that the government can operate at the same efficiency as a private insurer”
Is Medicare less efficient than private insurance?

Should have read.
“Why are there so many ways I can lose my plan now and not even have a public option?”

“ryan c says: “Of course the panel she supposedly had discovered in the stim had been created in 2005 by Bush.”
What was it called prior to the stimulus bill? I want to research that further as I had never heard that.
The same thing it was called after the stimulus.
She lied outright to try to scare people.
WaMonthly: “The claim, not surprisingly, isn’t true. The National Coordinator for Health Information Technology isn’t “new”; it was created by George W. Bush five years ago. More importantly, the measure is about medical records, not limiting physicians’ treatments.
In fact, the language in the House bill that McCaughey … referenced does not establish authority to “monitor treatments” or restrict what “your doctor is doing” with regard to patient care, but rather addresses establishing an electronic records system such that doctors would have complete, accurate information about their patients “to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care.”

jhw539 says: “It’s a talking point to appeal to idiots – 1000 pages! No Real American could POSSIBLY read 1000 pages!”
It is a valid point that if our representatives and our president are not reading the entire bill that they pass and then he signs, there is a problem. If it is so large or so complicated, which in this case on H.R. 3200 it is both, then that is a problem. Of course someone could read 1000 pages, but the problem is that they aren’t and they are making the most pathetic excuses for not doing so.

Should have read.
“Why are there so many ways I can lose my plan now and not even have a public option?”
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 13, 2009 3:54:39 PM
Very clever but non-responsive to my comment. Gibbs and the President refer to the plan as just another choice, which as far as I can see is a lie or at least a deception.

“Since medicare needs supplimental private insurance to cover all the costs, that might point to inneficiencies in the government system.”
Are you referring to the subsidizing of private insurance companies thru medicare to offer coverage to seniors?

Take the Blue Pill:”If the public plan is “just another option,” why are there so many different ways you can lose your own plan and be forced onto the public plan with no choice?”
THERE ARE NO WAYS YOU CAN BE FORCED ONTO THE PUBLIC PLAN WITH NO CHOICE.
“Jake, you should ask that question, list all the ways and ask again how does make this “just another option.”
So is that a “lie” too, jhw539?”
Yes, actually, it is. You will always have the option to buy into a private plan, and CBO analysis – folks who actually read and understand the bill – predict 90% of employed people will be covered under private plans after 10 years, similar to now.
Jake – how about a little fact checking here? The Right has some good arguments, but this constant refrain of lies and simplistic misrepresentations is killing any debate.

“Medicare. And look up the numbers (including fraud in the PRIVATE sector), studies and satisfaction level before whipping off that bumpersticker reply.”
Again, medicare isn’t covering all of the costs, requiring many people on medicare to get supplimental private insurance. It also is running at a deficit. In order to control costs, this congress is looking at scaling back benefits. And you pay into this system your entire working life, not withdrawing until 65 (so likely 40 years at least paying into it). That doesn’t scream efficiency to me.

KR:”Again, medicare isn’t covering all of the costs, requiring many people on medicare to get supplimental private insurance. ”
No health insurance covers “all the costs.” What a silly statement. Of course some people want to get other insurance. My health insurance doesn’t cover dental, so I have separate dental insurance. Is that an inefficiency in my private health insurance?
Millions are served by Medicare alone just fine with no supplemental insurance.

Generic:”Like I said, seriously, think about that. If Obama and others came out and said they read the bill”
There isn’t even “a bill” at this point you know – there are at least three.
If you believe that the legislators and Obama don’t know what is in the bills, don’t understand the implications, and haven’t read or been fully briefed through them – yet you would be convinced if they just said “Hey, we read the bills,” then frankly your support is too shallow to matter.
I haven’t read the entirety of my credit card contract, nor the entire book describing my health insurance. But I know what’s in there.

jhw539 says: “You will always have the option to buy into a private plan, and CBO analysis – folks who actually read and understand the bill – predict 90% of employed people will be covered under private plans after 10 years, similar to now.”
Where did you come up with this, surely not based on HR 3200. I read the provisions that say that you can keep your plan, but as soon as they stop offering it, you will have to go to the public option. There are several provisions that mandate that your private plan covers all the same things the public one does, so it is likely that the private plans will not be competitive any longer and as they are forbidden from enrolling new customers it will not take that long for them to die out and everyone will have to be on the public plan. Everyone that is except for federal employees, they get to keep their luxury health plans.

I would bet that the POTUS knows every small detail about the proposals and much beyond that.. he has the inside information and has met with all of the major players…
He is a master of illusion.. his charm, humor and affability lead us to think that he’s one of us.. it’s a ploy.. he’s a cunning, intelligent manipulator….. (perfect for any chief executive)….

“No health insurance covers “all the costs.” What a silly statement. Of course some people want to get other insurance. My health insurance doesn’t cover dental, so I have separate dental insurance. Is that an inefficiency in my private health insurance?”
Mine has a small copay and no deductable. I have a really good plan though, covering me and my wife for around 800 a month.
It’s really beside the point. You didn’t answer the fact its running at a deficit and you pay into it your entire working life. Not just what you pay, thats doubled because the employer also has to match it. So it’s a considerable amount of money going into the system that’s running at a deficit.

“If the plan changes in any way — by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug — the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it’s likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months.”
Try reading the actual bill versus the right wing spam for starters.

How many ways can you lose you plan right now?
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 13, 2009 4:04:23 PM
Better idea. How many ways can you KEEP your current plan?

Peeps with potentially expensive pre-existing conditions.. will be forced into the public option by extraordinary premiums (by private insurers)… unless I’m missing something…

“I haven’t read the entirety of my credit card contract, nor the entire book describing my health insurance. But I know what’s in there.”
Why am I not surprised…

“A ban on insurance companies refusing pre existing conditions is by far the most popular of any reform.”
I agree, popular with me too. But to fix it we should be figuring out why people are switching insurance with a pre-existing condition. We should all have health insurance that is ours and not employer based. People have cellphone contracts longer than jobs now a days. You’re bound to run into pre-existing condition issues. Why not shop around, pick one, stick with it, and employers pay a portion of the premium (dollar amount, not percentage).

I was outraged when I saw that the stimulus package provided $30 Billion for COBRA payments, which in most cases are simply an extension of gold plated employer provided plans. People who are out of a job should have instead been made eligible for Medicaid and their benefits means tested. It’s ridiculous that I am taxed to provide benefits to people far richer than those I receive, or would be willing to pay for, myself.

Generic:”"I haven’t read the entirety of my credit card contract, nor the entire book describing my health insurance. But I know what’s in there.”
Why am I not surprised…”
Have you read your entire credit card contract, including of course the standards included by reference? Do you even know how to request and receive the full documentation on your healthcare?

“Gold plated? Please return to reality. In REALITY based on ACTUAL DATA, the average – not gold plated – insurance premiums actually being paid by businesses is over $1000 per month for a family policy.”
I’ve shopped around a lot in the past 2 years. Gold plated insurance for me and my wife is 850 a month. Thats no deductable, and a 10$ copay on some things, no copay on many others.
By comparison, we could get a plan for around 300 a month with a 3k deductable and 15% copay. If we really wanted to go cheap, we could do 180 a month with 5k deductable and 25$ copay. I’ve never been quoted over 850 for a plan for both of us, and I’m not healthy (bad back). So if the average is over 1k a month, I’d be interested in the details of those plans. They must be some outstanding insurance plans.

Jason:”Medicare is running huge, massive, unfunded liabilities and it does not cover seniors completely and they are talking about further reducing payments to docs. It is an unmitigated disaster. You crack me up.”
What a nice bumpersticker. Glad to see you’re so happy in your reality-free bubble. Carry on, don’t let anything like facts get in the way.

“I’ve shopped around a lot in the past 2 years”
Me too, KR, and your figures are spot on.

“Why does everyone from this administration and the dem members in congress have to keep telling us they’re not going to kill granny? Is this not enough proof this is all a bad idea right now?”
The necessity of the WH and Democrats to counter outright lies about the Health Care plan means the plan is bad?
While I think the right has been wining on this politically thru gross misrepresentation, I’m not sure that’s something to celebrate.

“Relying on the emergency room to keep them from dying, maybe a local church or shelter to take them in when they lose their home and have their wages garnished (what bankruptcy doesn’t protect). America’s version of the public option.”
We all rely on the emergency room to keep us from dying. Most of us don’t rely on the emergency room to take care of our cough. And the person you described would qualify for medicaid. I love when people bring up these destitute examples and forget that their example most likely would qualify for medicaid. There already is a government program for people like that. We are talking about the gap between medicaid qualified people, and employer sponsered health insurance.
And for medical debt, lets just create some no interest government loans that people can qualify for and pay it back in their tax return, or as a tax. People shouldn’t be getting big tax returns if they have medical debt and the government extends them a loan.
There are multiple ways to handle this without the government going into the insurance business as a competitor.

“Do some research on this. There is a reason businesses are crying bloody murder over healthcare costs.”
Who needs research when you have anecdotes.
Just yesterday KR was telling me how the military scuttlebutt from a friend of a friend was that Bush was not keen to go into Iraq.

Ryan C. “It’s only the most gold plated of plans that cost $750-$1000 per month for families.”
Not true.
“average cost for family coverage available through employers last year was $12,680, according to the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. The cost for covering individuals was $4,704.”
I consider anything with a deductible under $500 and copays under $35 to be gold plated. Most employer plans that I’ve looked at conform to those standards and better.

-Just yesterday KR was telling me how the military scuttlebutt from a friend of a friend was that Bush was not keen to go into Iraq.-
I heard from Barry over in supply that Gitmo was going to be closed too.

“Sooo, give us a link for these studies of yours.”
The blog doesn’t allow any links.
Google: Kaiser Family Foundation employer healthcare

“The blog doesn’t allow any links.”
Ok then, the name of the studies and the authors, name of website where they can be read, etc. You know, verifiable information. :)

“Then you have some shoddy insurance.”
I’m perfectly happy with my insurance, and see absolutely no reason why I should be taxed to pay for anything better for other people.

“I’m perfectly happy with my insurance, and see absolutely no reason why I should be taxed to pay for anything better for other people.”
Two things.
1) I hope you are healthy and remain so.
2) I hope the coverage you think you have is there.

Hey!!! Wow. Thank you Jake for this Q:
The PhRMA deal — there’s been some confusion, I think, about what exactly the White House has agreed to with Big Pharma, what they have not agreed to. Could you clarify what it is, exactly, that the White House has signed off on, whether or not you feel that the Senate Finance Committee and Senator Baucus were up front with you guys about what he agreed to? And also do you think that this was done — whatever deal this was, was this done that was done in keeping with the transparency that then- candidate Obama promised?
Awwww.I almost feel like you responded to a specific request. This Big Pharma deal has been driving me nuts. (I don’t mean that facetiously, that’s totally awesome– and you even brought up transparency!) I have to laugh that Gibbs thought he was perfectly clear. Uh, I like Gibbs as a person, but no. Not clear at all. Now, we know. There’s a specific deal for 80 mil and the WH gave it their blessing.

I found the Kaiser site, and there are a lot of interesting studies there, but I haven’t been able to identify the one supporting the statistics jwh539 has been putting forth.

Okay, I know the conversation here has been totally about something different but I’m really interested in the Pharma deal, and I just noticed that Ryam Grim of the Huffington Post obtained a July 7 memo documenting a deal between PhRMA and the White House (although reps for the White House and PhRMA who were shown the outline said that it failed to reflect reality.) There also was a deal announced on June 6 between the White House and major hospital associations for $150 billion in savings over the next 10 years. The details of that deal are still unknown to the public. I’m in Obama’s corner, but I agree with those who assert the White House and Senate Finance committee need to be more open and transparent about the deals that are cutting, who is involved and what the ultimate impact on a health care reform package might be.

I have been very surprised that there was not more interest expressed earlier on about the details of the big Pharma deal. As Alyson says, the details of the plan were never made public. I personally do not think the Huffington Post memo is a legit reflection of the deal, btw. But given President Obama’s emphasis on transparency and a new way of doing business, how did the news media and the public give the WH a pass on talking about the specifics of the deal as soon as it was announced?
President Obama, during the campaign, demonized lobbyists and said they would not have undue influence in his White House. He even cut a commercial singling out Billy Tauzin and Big Pharma, which said, “The pharmaceutical industry wrote into the prescription drug plan that Medicare could not negotiate with drug companies. And you know what the chairman of the committee, who pushed the law through went to work for the pharmaceutical industry making 2 million dollars a year.
Imagine that.
That’s an example of the same old game playing in Washington. You know I don’t want to learn how to play the game better, I want to put an end to the game playing.”
How does he end the game playing? By striking a deal with Big Pharma that seems to promise that if they give savings in the donut hole of the Medicare prescription drug plan, they will not have to worry that the health care reform bill will include allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices to lower prices for those it covers. Sorry if I get the details of the trade-off wrong– after all, the WH won’t talk and Gibbs evades a direct answer and no details were ever released from this “most transparent” administration.

More Gibbs:
“Q Okay. But that agreement, the $80 billion, is not binding on Congress in any way, is it?
MR. GIBBS: Is it not binding on?
Q Congress.
MR. GIBBS: All of Congress?
Q All of Congress.
MR. GIBBS: Well, I guess that depends to some degree on what ultimately comes out of the Senate and what’s agreed to in a conference committee, but I think that’s getting — that’s projecting a tad ahead of ourselves.
Q Well, is it binding on the Senate Finance Committee?
MR. GIBBS: It’s the agreement that they entered into. Yes, sir.”

Posted by: moderate | Aug 14, 2009 8:01:45 AM
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Good post. I think the free pass on the subject is beginning to expire.

Gibbs, the wording of the poll about are you with the president about health care reform is so misleading. If someone wanted a single payer system they would vote no as would someone who wants no changes to the system at all. But that isn’t saying those that want a single payer system would turn up their nose at a reform bill with a public option.
I think your question didn’t make a lot of sense. And there was a baiting quality to it which doesn’t seem like good journalism.

Rock on Tapper! You are consistently asking good questions.