Top House Democrats Call Town Hall Disruptions ‘Un-American’

People are getting angry because they are frustrated! The Administration simply will not listen to the majority of the American public who says they absolutely do not want this health care plan. Calling us names, ignoring us, insisting that we are not really representative of the American public, this are the types of things that are escalating the situation.

I remember the Democratic Convention in Chicago in the Mayor Daly days. What kind of demonstrations did they call those outside convention hall? Seems history is repeating itself.

Un-American? How about the democrats shoving legislation through without bipartisan support? How about Obama’s “grassroots” network to get votes and influence outcomes?
As mentioned above, Americans are fed up with big gov’t spending, the social reform, etc. Socialized Healthcare will not save this economy it will destroy it. Small businesses, the backbone of this country’s economy are already burdened with a higher minimum wage, reduced revenue, higher taxes down the road, etc. Now you want to load them up with this nonsense? I hear they said a socialized health system will create around 1 million jobs, yeah, all for the Federal gov’t. That isn’t real growth for the economy because those jobs are funded by tax dollars.
The Democrats in congress want to destroy this country so they can rebuild it in their vision.

Rasmussen:
When it comes to health care decisions, 51% of the nation’s voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% hold the opposite view and fear the insurance companies more.

The first amendment allows for free speech. That included dissention.
The Democrats have been blindsided by the fact that average Americans are finally waking up and remembering they HAVE a voice and a right to use it.
And, we won’t be intimidated by anyone. Our freedom and for the elderly their very lives are at stake.

I am the mob.
A 54 y/o retired special education teacher.
Pelosi, Obama, and the rest are making a huge mistake by dismissing ordinary Americans.

Vote as many out as possible in 2010 and get Big Brother out in 2012.

Intimidation is not why we have free speech.
This health care debate has spun completely out of hand thanks to our typical ill-informed core of Americans, mainly supporters of the Republican party. When I read the comments section and hear about the elderly are going to death camps, I just have to feel sorry for that individual.
If anything reforming health care will save the coming babyboomer generation from certain death. Do people that oppose health care realize they can get the rug pulled out as soon as they have a terrible illness? Do they realize as soon as you lose your job your health care is gone? Do they realize that once you have a pre-existing condition, all the money in the world can’t buy coverage? Do realize the amount of bankruptcies from health costs (Most, middle-class WITH insurance)
This is what they are screaming to protect?

Since when did opposition and dissent become unAmerican? Is she taking a play from the George the III’s play book?
She should re-read Paine’s Common Sense again. Maybe she will realize what is American!

apparently i am a member of the “un-american mob”… but i have to tell you; i am NOT going to sit there and have my congressman LIE to me and not call him out.

“So, Pelosi thinks encouraging Union thugs to attack those with valid health care concerns… American? ”
Union thugs? The SEIU represents mainly hotel workers. You’re afraid of a desk clerks and hotel maids? That’s pretty sad…

Well at least these areas are having town hall meetings…our spineless Reps have resorted to telephone “town hall meetings” where the calls are screened first and a delay is in place to catch the ‘bad’ ones that might slip through. Maybe these outspoken patriots are so frustrated because they feel like they are being dismissed…wonder why they would get that idea. Oh, and sending some union “Brown Shirts” to these meetings is soooo more “American” then letting opposing views be heard.

Isn’t it just a little more than hypocritical that the representitives of the Left Side of the Democratic Party (pelosi et al) are talking about “Un-American” disruptions when for the last 8 years the left has orchestrated protest after organized protest. Are we to beleive that the “Demonstrators” at any G-8 Meeting, Presidential Speech, or any “green” despised event were there out of soley their desire to express their right of protest??? Come on! Let me have some of what you are smoking.
The Left, Greens, and others are the architects of Modern Political Disruption, Diversion and Media Manipulation (not that that is too hard to do these days).
Free Speech is something we should all cherish and support, especially our elected officials. When it goes to far (i.e. fire bombing buildings like our “eco-friendly” friends do), then it needs to be addressed. If a little heckling by concerned citizens (organized or not) concerns them, they should either exit politics or grow a set.

It’s only un-American when conservatives do it.
Comparing Bush to Hitler was quite acceptable.
Hillary Clinton said that she would not be denied the right to protest. But she did not say that any opposition had the same rights.
Barack Obama thinks that people take this democracy thing a little too seriously and so he’s collecting your names for future consideration.

Mitch McConnell misses the point completely, or is trying to twist the point, if he believes Pelosi has a problem with people expressing their opinions. It’s not their opinions, it’s their frankly rude, obnoxious, and belligerent behavior!!
It’s like in Latin America, where people get pumped up listening to Chavez radio broadcasts (which follow the Rush Limbaugh format of excess, exaggeration, blaming, and general buffoonery) and then go out mob style to harangue the non-believers.
It’s time for these people to put of the FOX television performers, and if they have serious questions to ask then come to the meetings, but be respectful , listen, and then ask questions like an adult.

This is not just about health care.
This is frustration about a government out of control. Spending wildly, and leaving trillions for our kids/grandkids to pay off.
A president that cares more about lawyers, special interests and CEO’s than the people.
And a president that is chummy with tyrants but apologizes for America.
Congress has a 20% approval and Obama dumps the future or our heath care in their laps.
This frusrtation is about losing our freedom to an out of control, out of touch government.

Now, disagreeing with the Democrats has become “Un-American”. I think that’s called fascism.

you forget, Acorn has 9 billion of our tax dollars compliments of stimulus to help it with the next two elections. You can fun a lot of Dems with that money.

what PELOSI wants: continued STIFLED debate and continued HIDING of the facts – SHE HATES THE FACT THAT THIS IS TAKING HER DISCIPLES OFF OF THEIR TALKING POINTS ONLY STATEMENTS WHICH ALWAYS AVOID TALKING ABOUT THE FACTS so as to say ONLY propoganda – once again PELOSI is GUILTY of EVERYTHING she complains about

Just who do they, Pelosi and Hoyer think they work for? It is obviously not us, We the People. The gaul of our elected officials, to tell us how it is unpatriotic to protest, while they have exempted themselves from any Health Care plan they ram down our throats.
It is apparent that the political party in power is out of touch with the people and the economy.
“IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID”

I guess Pelosi thinks ACORN and SEIU are the only legit grassroot organizations.
You can tell by their pretty T-Shirts and manufactered signs that we paid for.
Obama’s rent-a-mobs financed by taxpayers.

If we don’t get health care right, the American economy will become so uncertain that citizens who can choose otherwise, the educated, will not decide to stay here. We will experience a brain drain because people don’t want to put down roots in a place where they don’t feel economically safe having children, where the rights of individuals are consistently superseded by the interests of corporate industry.

Hysterical crowds together armed with specific tactics to “disrupt,” incite shouting, interfere with debate, intimidate under the threat of violence and falsify the facts is not democracy – it is anti-democratic. These groups are incredibly similar to the Arditi Reparti d’assalto in Italy. These people don’t believe in our great Constitution as they stifle debate and discussion. They are not representative of a majority but instead chose to threaten violence and, as is clear from their blogs and web sites, impose their narrow will against fellow citizens. They threaten the use of violence because they’ve lost at the polls.

I think it’s OK to call showing up to town hall meetings with ugly posters of the President of the United States as ‘the joker’ and with horns sticking out of his head, or anti-reform signs with swastikas all over them, or shouting throughout Health Secretary Sibelius entire Q&A session so she was drowned out, or hanging up an effigy of a pro-reform Congressman, or a Republican Congressman on record being heard taking pride in the successful disturbance of a town hall meeting as being just like “a lynching”…is 100%UN-AMERICAN.
These protests began with Recess Rally who issued this call-to-action to attend town halls nationally:
“This is a collaborative effort to make it known that we will not stand for socialized, government controlled
healthcare.”
“It’s time to grab a sign and raise your voice against this monstrosity that Barack Obama and his liberal allies want to shove down America’s collective throat. Liberals will certainly be making noise, we need to as well.
“Tell Congress to keep its dirty paws off our healthcare system, and tell President Obama that you don’t want a future with socialized healthcare.”
American Pundit
Nice, huh? This is an anti-reform activist call-to-action…did you read “come to these town hall meetings to ask questions about the health reform so you can be well-informed voters”?? NO you read “Congress’ dirty paws”, “monstrosity that Barack Obama & his liberal allies” “stop socialized medecine”….efforts made to pre-dispose an angry crowd to fight. This is hooligan UN-AMERICAN behavior.
Don’t pretend the people who showed up were just there because they independently wanted more info – they were there to fight because the organizers had unfairly pre-disposed them to.
Sponsors of Recess Rally, as appeared on their website, include the following lobby and big business-financed groups, masquerading as pro-patients and people:
Let Freedom Ring, Patients First,
Americans for Prosperity, Sam Adams Alliance, American Majority,American Liberty Alliance

What’s unAmerican is 15 million children without health insurance. Republicanism=collusion between the wealthy and the stupid.

Pelosi forgot to mention death threats against union organizers (historically the MO of fascist organizations), people bringing guns to the town halls, and death threats against elected representatives.

To Break Time and others that seem to have issue with an organized group of protesters, may I remind you that the “Tea Partiers” that they are so afraid of are named after a group of brave men and woman that were willing to risk their lives and livelihoods to make their protest. I assuming, since I was there, that those folks had some sort of organization and plan. I don’t think the all coincidently arrived at the docks in Boston Harbor with the same idea. Some on, organiztion is required. I believe one of largest supporters of these folks that are whining about “American Bullies” are the Unions (i.e. AFL-CIO, UAW, ….). If I recall from history, that group has been and continues to be a Bully to get what they want and to make their desires known. What about the organizations for Gay and Lesbian Rights (which I happen to support to some degree)? They are very good at organized bullying type protests. Countless others could b referened, but you get the point.
Protest is good for us. It opens up discussion. How can that be a bad thing?

“I think it’s OK to call showing up to town hall meetings with ugly posters of the President of the United States as ‘the joker’ and with horns sticking out of his head, or anti-reform signs with swastikas all over them,”
You did all of this to Bush and he never whined about it. Now you whine all the time when it happens to Obama.
Bush had class. Obama has none.

How dumb is it for these politicians to call ordinary people unAmerican?
Who are they trying to impress–their base? They aren’t going anywhere.
And the president of all the people telling dissenters to stop talking and get out of his way?
If Obama had any hope of winning over any of those that didn’t vote for him I think he blew it.

LMAO at the facist cardbord faced pe-kno-ke-losi.. she hired migrant workers that could not even speak English to carry signs for her in Denver
Now you see why America is in an uproar over the democrats becoming the facist party of America.. Silence free speech is there top priority
Hey thats Flag@whitehouse.gov LMAO.. the freedom of information lawsuits are going to fly when this is over and we will find out WHO sends what to the whitehouse and what media networks are involve in this illegal activity

If this is such a great plan, why won’t Democrats in Congress include themselves?
Democrats are talking about taxing “gold” plans. Will they tax their own gold-plated plans?
Steve??

Posted by: LibertyMan | Aug 10, 2009 10:20:33 AM
Easy.
Billions for ACORN and SEIU in the “stimulus”.
“Strike back twice as hard” at protesters.

Posted by: Chelsea C | Aug 10, 2009 10:22:20 AM
Bingo!
Thanks for posting that. I could not locate it quickly enough.

Posted by: Enron | Aug 10, 2009 10:24:38 AM
Enron flourished under Democrats and the fraud was ended by George Bush.

America was based on a free market econonmy – spend where YOU want to spend your money and how much of it YOU want to spend. Let’s wake up America, stop this administration immediately. No more billions and trillions of money wasted, on actions that do not and will not work. Everything they have tried is a complete and total failure. Disagree, name one thing they have accomplished.

drjohn, you have a short memory. Protesters at Bush rallies were arrested all the time even in the fascist-sounding “free speech zones”, and pushed around by GOP operatives impersonating Secret Service. There were several successful lawsuits against both the GOP and the Secret Service.

Just step back for a second…. hanging effigies? Isn’t that what was going on when the British were here holding reins of oppression over us? Just the fact that these things are going on disturbs me, and should our current government. We fought the British for rights to speak what we think freely, why would someone like Pelosi believe she is above being criticized by the American People? We have, in our Constitution the right to keep and BEAR arms, these are freedoms we fought for… why does anyone question when the populace get fired up about anything they feel strongly about? Face it Pelosi (and anyone else in government) – we are a feisty people who do not like being spoon fed socialism!

they should take a national poll to see how poeple feel about impeaching obama.. and biden . this stupit health care he trying to past and spending tax payer money. obama does;t care about the white poeple in this nation just his kind !!! i bet his home town got a big pot of that money.
******************
Be careful what you wish for, though. Wouldn’t pelosi be next in line after biden? I think we should go straight to Clinton – she was the legitimate winner of the Democratic primaries anyway.

If this healthcare plan is sooooo good, why isn’t Congress taking part in it?
If, according to the bill’s wording, “this tax should not be considered a tax,” than what is the additional 2.5% a person who “opts” out of this enforced healthcare to be called? A fine for exercising freedom of choice?
If Pelosi thinks it unAmerican to ask questions, to protest a bill we all know in our guts is terribly wrong, then what country did she grow up in? Indonesia, like our would-be Fuhrer?
Why hasn’t Gladney been invited to the White House for a beer summit with the union thugs who beat him up?
Might email your senators and representatives with a simple yes-or-no question: do you support Pelosi’s charges that American citizens exercising their Freedom of Speech are unAmerican? See what you get there. I emailed my two senators the other day to ask if they supported the Snitch on Americans program. Not a peep, yet, although the last time I emailed them about the stimulus they were both quick to respond with stump speeches. The right questions, simple and direct, and their silence is deafening.

If anti-war protesters had used the same tactics at public forums in 2003 they would have been dragged off by the police for disturbing the peace, or at least limited to “free speech zones.” Pelosi’s choice of words was unfortunate, but the fact is, going and drowning out the voices of people who you disagree with at a public meeting doesn’t sound much like how the American political process should work to me.

This is not the change i was looking for when obama got in. This is a passinate debate on health care by both sides but for people like pelosi and hoyer to make comments about people who voice strong opposition to this health care reform bill as un-american is a insult on freedom speech.

“What’s unAmerican is 15 million children without health insurance. Republicanism=collusion between the wealthy and the stupid.” writes Ed
One,in Pennsylvania, all children are covered.
Two, the federal government has no business interferring in my health care so they can provide for others.
Three, the government have no right to decide life and death issue involving treatments ( rationing)
Four,noone has a right to my health or financial records unless I grant permission.
Five, are they Congress,President and govermnent employees going to be under this plan?
Have you seen film of Obama stating he wanted to abolish private insurance?
I did not vote for Obama but I was proud that Americans would vote for a African American. This isn’t about race or even party. It is about our HEALTH CARE…. get it?

And it goes downhill – on and on.

BubbaRight – Mod rule is un-American. Going to a public meeting with the specific intent and instructions from right-wing extremist and anti-American groups to shout down, intimidate with threats of violence and tell lies is “un-American” and fascistic. It is exactly what Mussolini did in Italy to rise to power. Plain and simple.

Protesting is not un-American although the shouting, screaming, and unwillingness to let others also ask questions is not what I’d called the American way (and this goes for vehement protestors on both sides of the political spectrum). As it is, I am constantly amazed how inept Pelosi and Reid are in dealing with the public. They need PR advice badl!

Short and simple. This is an expansion of the welfare system. You take from those who work and you give to those who don’t.
Granted, there are some who are incapable and we need to care for them, but when I see people who decide to purchase an iPod and cell phones with texting and internet access instead of buying health insurance, then YES I’m going to get mad as hell when the Government comes in and tells me that I have to pay for their health insurance.
Every time I turn around there’s another tax. Almost 10% of my phone bill is taxes, my gas and electric bills are filled with additional taxes, I’ve got a sales tax on virtually everything I buy, there’s .24/gallon of federal tax on gasoline, another .17/gallon of state excise tax, then we have employment taxes, income taxes, property taxes…. Where does it ever end.
I’ve HAD IT!!!
Show me two things and maybe I’ll change my mind.
1.) Show me ONE Government program that has actually “saved” money.
2.) Show me ONE Indian Tribe in the US that has seen an improvement in their quality of life from a federal program (as opposed to their business activities).
Government programs don’t save money and they haven’t improved our quality of life for anyone. If you want to improve your quality of life try working for a living and saving for your own future.
I’m sure there are some who will say – yeah, how’s your 401(k) looking right now? And I’ll tell you – if the Federal Reserve and the Federal Government had provided the ovesight they were supposed to be providing, this mess wouldn’t have been so intense.
The Federal Government and the Federal Reserve blew it and we’re paying the price. Now they think they’re going to fix it by going further into debt and raising taxes to pay for it.
It’s time for the Federal Government to start looking at their own house instead of trying to “fix” the private sector.
It’s not about Republicans or Democrats – it’s about both!!
That’s just THIS President’s strategy – find someone to point the finger at and make them the bad guy when the truth is they all need to look in the mirror.
When Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barack Obama and his hired thugs (ACORN/SEIU)begin to understand that the Citizen’s “We the People” run this country, not the electorate and taxpayer funded special interests – then we’ll see some civility in the town halls.
If you want to find a place to save some money Mr. President, you can eliminate ACORN’s funding and leave health care alone because I, for one, am tired of Government taking my income and using it to finance special interests and your former employer.

So, Pelosi feels that anyone who disagrees with her agenda is Un-American? Nancy, your brown shirt is showing.

The unions and the democrats have always tried to stifle free speech. The democrats use organizations like ACORN and the unions to do their dirty work of crooked elections and preventing Americans from protesting against moves that take their freedom and allow illegal aliens to take our jobs and use our resources. I have attended both the TEA parties and town hall meetings. There was no organized group represented. The people there were my neighbors and fellow citizens that are tired of both parties taking their freedoms away and imposing government on every aspect of our daily lives. As far as health care, the government should not have a thing to do with it. If you can’t provide health care for you and your children, don’t have children. Tax payers shouldn’t have to pay for lazy people’s housing, food, and health care. All Americans have the same chance to succeed. If people would rather take dope, drink, and make babies that is their problem, not the tax payers of this country. There is no where in the constitution that says a citizen is owed health care. The socialists and free loaders are the people that elected Obama. There are now more people that live off their fellow citizens than there are people that work and pay their own way. That is why Obama won. He bought votes with checks to the lazy and now is doing the same thing with cash give aways of our tax dollars to support the auto unions in the “Cash For Clunkers” welfare move.

And these are the people who blasted Sarah Palin as being stupid? Pelosi is beyond moronic. She obviously has never studied American history nor does she have any cognizance of the Constitution. So what the heck is she doing in a position of power in Washington? It’s time for a recall.

More recently, 61 year old librarian was arrested at a McCain “town hall” last year for wearing a “McCain=Bush” tshirt. The police were told by a McCain staffer that he was Secret Service.
Even the conservative Rocky Mountain News agreed her rights were violated.

For those of you who think Congress care more about you than does your doctor:
(B) developing measures of rates of read8
mission for individuals treated by physicians;
9 (C) applying a payment reduction for phy10
sicians who treat the patient during the initial
11 admission that results in a readmission; and
12 (D) methods for attributing payments or
13 payment reductions to the appropriate physi14
cian or physicians.
HR 3200 page 298
What this means is that doctors will be penalized for readmitting you to the hospital even if your life depends on it. Government is discouraging use of services. And you thought insurance companies were bad?

Shouting and attempting to disrupt town meetings is a direct result of a “weakness of your position”. Clearly, the right wing is being driven by greed, selfishness and fear. They have lost the rational argument and are running on emotion. Pent up anger over losing the election is spilling over here. I say let them vent all they want, let them make complete fools of themselves, and see if it works for them. There will be blowback from the civilized thinking independents at the polls.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said, “I don’t think either side ought to be trying to engage in disrupting meetings, either the Democratic side or the Republican side.”
Well it would have been awfully nice if you really held that view before whipping the hard right up into a frenzy of screaming zealots. There are idoits out there demanding that government ‘keeps it hands off’ Medicare !?! To show ‘both sides’ of the argument, one news station turned to an analyst who is either a liar or hopelessly ignorant:
“If you like the Post Office and the Department of Motor Vehicles and you think they’re run well, just wait till you see Medicare, Medicaid and health care done by the government.” —Arthur Laffer on CNN
(I assume everyone here knows that Medicare and Medicaid ARE done by the government and always have been.)
It would be helpful if the press would fact check these folks and hold them accountable to reality. Who started the shouting in town meetings – for or against? Was Palin lying about euthanasia being in the bill or not? Will the bill result in an increase in government funding of abortions?
Lets try to get some reality out there.

Retro; No that wasn’t a townhall meeting. Nice try.

Sorry messed up that last part….
Obama said we deserve and that he would see to it that we get the same health care as his senate and house people receive and we would get nothing less.
This is what I expect from him.
That was almost word for word.

HR 3200 and abortions:
“Massive increases in abortion, the largest since Roe v. Wade, are looming because health care proposals such as HR 3200, “America’s Affordable Health Care Choice Act,” will not only fund abortion, they also will mandate coverage of abortion on demand in virtually all of America’s health care plans, preempt abortion-reducing state limitations and protections, and create an abortion clinic mandate. These proposals will reverse America’s steady, reduction in abortions.”
- Don Nelson

I think people up on the hill who are responsible for passing these bills are lazy and incapable of doing their jobs. (On both sides). We pay you to read a bill front and back and back again if necessary, and decide for us what will be good for us. Not take the lazy road and allow someone to brief you or pay you under the table to cast a vote.

Somebody tell Pelosi those people disrupting her little town hall meetings ARE the opposition to this ridiculous health plan. Maybe she should listen a little. Why are they RAMMING this through? Take your time, do it right and tweek it after implementation. We’re sorry we are disrupting your “ram it down our throat” health care bill. Even Dems admit they didn’t and won’t read it.

(I assume everyone here knows that Medicare and Medicaid ARE done by the government and always have been.)
======================================
Ah yeah—-that’s just one of the problems people are having with HR 3200. Those programs are on their way to bankruptcy. Did YOU know that?

The democrats should not forget that socialistic government is beyond un american!They should stop putting the discontent off on the republican party and they just might see that rhe people protesting at tea parties and health care are also democrats who realise the party they supported is not what they got! I think the tearm is ( BATE AND SWITCH)

Pelosi has chosen to call those who oppose government takeover of healthcare “un-American”. Doesn’t this seem a bit ironic from a person who considers flag burning to be an expression of free speech? Doesn’t Pelosi exhibit a bit of gall and temerity here? Isn’t this an outlandish insult to a free people?
Both Obama and Pelosi say or infer that all who oppose their government takeover of healthcare are organized by republicans, the insurance companies or some right wing organizer. However, the word is out that Obama has energized, by email, some 13 million members of his OFA (Organizing for America). Members of which pledge to support — not the flag, not the constitution, not the country, not even the Democratic Party, but Obama and his “bold plan.” OFA does not use the Democratic Party logo but the “O”-shaped logo of the Obama campaign in which the red white and blue of the flag are abstracted to soft pastel colors. So I ask the question, isn’t the real conspiracy from the left?
Why does the left use election campaign tactics in attempt to marginalize opponents of government takeover of healthcare? Why can’t a supposedly representative government just accept the fact that we are a free people who don’t want a bigger more intrusive government?

regarding drjohn:”If you deduct the illegals, the people that chose not to have health insurance, etc. It gets down to less than 5 million. One estimation has it at about 2 million”
————————————–
Many of the people who “choose” not to have health insurance “chose” instead to have food on the table. Or “decided” not to spend $4,000/month on COBRA because they were laid off and have no direct source of income, even though they have Hepatitis or HIV or MS or cancer. When these people and the homeless and indigent and illegals go to the emergency room or hospital now, we already pay, just with vast surcharges, because the system is broken.
And by the way, for those with comfortable jobs and *good* health insurance policies, me included. Your salary would likely be higher if your company wasn’t paying so much for your insurance. Companies look at total compensation packages. Health Care Complex inefficiencies impact your bottom line not only when you actually use the system, but every payday, regardless.

“Many of the people who “choose” not to have health insurance “chose” instead to have food on the table.”
Simply not true.
These are the population making over $75K and choosing not to buy insurance. There are about 17 million who qualify for programs and have not signed up.
Democrats cannot wait to provide health care for illegals.
That means that you and your family will have to queue up behind illegal aliens in your wait for health care.

To flash override
And all socialistic government is correct? people in germany loved hitler untill the real hitler came out!

Signing statements, transparency, lobbyists- there really isn’t a single thing Obama has been honest about.
Why would anyone believe him now?

THE BRITISH CALLED US TRATIORS WHEN WE FOUGHT FOR INDEPENDANCE,AND NOW THE DEMS CALL THE TEA PARTIES AND THE TOWN HOUSE PATRIOTS, UN-AMERICAN AND EVERYOTHER NAME IN THE BOOK. ITS A GOOD THING WE DIDN’T LISTEN TO THE BRITISH, AND I THOUGHT NAME CALLING ENDED IN FRIST GRADE

And all socialistic government is correct? people in germany loved hitler untill the real hitler came out!
==========================================
This type of comment is typical from those opposing Healthcare. It lends nothing to serious debate, it just inflames. And they should be treated as irrelevant until they decide to tone it down and contribute to the debate..

Most of those in middle income brackets who chose not to be covered under their employer’s health insurance do so because they are already covered under a spouse’s plan. You can’t deduct them from the total of uninsured, because they are insured.
And “People of those [lowest] incomes” are indeed covered by Medicaid, but don’t forget that many of them started with a job, perhaps with marginal insurance, and now once again are on a broken system. Keeping them off Medicaid would be a good thing, for them and the people as a whole.

Un-American? I’ll tell you whats Un-American!
- government ownership of automobile companies
- taking my hard earned tax dollars to buy someone elses car
- procuring executive jets for Congress just months after chastising industry for the same
- offering senior government positions to tax cheats
- trying to push bills through Congress before Americans have had a chance to read them
- driving our country to it’s largest debt in history in only 6 months
- a profiling President
- and calling obvious senior citizens at townhall meetings mobsters because they say what you don’t want to hear
Un-American? What the hell is wrong with you.

To Cynthia and Chris..
oh yeah..we disagree with your messiah, so we have to be racists. Lets see ..he is losing his popularity and people are disagreeing so it has to be racisim . of course. also someone disagrees so it has to be Un-American…
On that subject where are all the war protestors now. Things are worse than ever and I dont see one SHeehan in the streets.. maybe it was people that hated a white president not the war they were protesting..

“The GOP is encouraging these individuals, mostly older Americans, to disrupt meetings…”
Disrupt? Really? I’ve only seen that claim by the left, but haven’t seen a GOP member say “go DISRUPT that meeting!”. I’m not saying there isn’t, just post it cause I haven’t found it yet.

The permanent ruling class of the Democratic Party sure didn’t complain about 8 years of disruptive protest of the Bush administration. This country was FOUNDED on disruptive protest and rebellion. This country kicked an entire ruling class and government out of power. It is time we kick out the permanent politicians that make up current Washington. TERM LIMITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Telling people to shut up because you don’t want to hear their views, because they are devastating to your case IS un-American.
People have something to say and the best argument you have is “shut up; you’re trynig to take over our lives.”
“but…”
“SHUT-UP!”
We’re supposed to be living in a free country where we can speak our minds, not where we have to be quiet or risk being lynched.

I read our dictator leader Obama has opened a tattle tale number to call in and report who is talking about health care reform in a way that is not in line with the socialist republic of the democrates. Wow you yes we canners or blind and just like to follow like sheep. The cliff is near and your about to fall off yet you still blindly follow the lead. Funny how the administration and both houses, Supreme court and other agencies will not have the same health care they are trying to force down your throats. Have any of you asked them why???? or are you afraid the tanks and troops will come to your house??

Like it or not we are already a country with socialized medicine, it’s just that it’s ineptly inenacted in practice. A vast majority of the cost of the average person’s healthcare is spent in the last 30 days of their life. Without socialized healthcare, this would be their house, their small business, their inheritance for their children. Even with “catastrophic care” insurance. For those who think socialized medicine is evil, how do you propose folding all the people covered already under myriad federal programs into mainstream capitalist driven insurance? The Health Care Complex would suffer a meltdown far worse than what we’ve experienced in housing, and the consequence would not just be people out in the street to live, but literally dying in the streets. Will you sell your home (if you have one), go bankrupt, starve a bit, so mom can have 11 extra days in a coma?

Where was I when Obama was appointed King. Where in the Constitution was the President given the power to take my personal helthcare away and replace it with some inferior plan. I did not ask and I do not want the Federal Government to have anything to do with my health care. Excuse me Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstien, and Obama if you don’t like my opinion. You are the new face of Socialism and I’m not a socialist. It’s time for the True Patriots to standup and throw these NAZI’s out.

Its an interesting albeit likely unsuccessful political ploy by the Dems to sway uniformed independents by breeding “opposition to those inopposition”. The various health care reform bills cant be sold on their own merit at present (if they could thats what the Op-Eds would have been about). Instead its “create a villian to rally against” time.
The Dem strategy banks on a) that the current polls showing a clear majority against the currently proposed health care reforms is “soft” – ie that it is a surfacy uninformed belief – capable of being reversed and b) that those who hold strong informed views in oppositon are only Republicans who will never vote Dem anyway. This point is crucial to being able to label the opposition racist astroturfers. If the Dems are wrong on this and some of the strongly held beliefs are from independents – the plan backfires as the Dems insut the very voters they will need to court at 2010.
Notice how the debate is about the “veracity of the debaters” as opposed to the merits of reform. Hope and change = same old song.

The democrats need to represent the people that put them in office and back in control. Don’t think that the republicans haven’t. It’s time to vote strong public health care straight up or down. It’s time a patient gets what’s best for them instead of what’s best for the stock holders. Vote strong public health care straight up or down then we will know who to send packing coming the 2010 elections.

This comment was sent to the White House “fishy” email.
This Government is “of the people, by the people and for the people” not of the Democrats, by Pelosi and for Obama.

If it were up to Pelosi there would have been no meetings, no reading the legislation. They would have voted this in before anyone had an opportunity to comment.
This is why people are mad as hell and this will continue. Pelosi is a disgrace, a liar and about as dumb as dirt.

Our health care is horrible. I can barely afford it and have a HMO. If costs go up anymore, a lot more people will not have it. And if you do have it they do not pay for pre-existing condtions and if you have a horrible disease God help you. Republicans are spreading a lot of lies about Pres. Obama’s plan. Instead of working with him on it they are having a field day with rumors. So yes it is Unamerican. The president gave a speech and listed everything he was doing. If you listened to him you would not believe all this garbage going around. No wonder our country is in such a mess.

THE DEMOCRAT-SOCIALISTS have forgotten that this country is about small government and big individualism. They’ve forgotten who is in charge and who the servants are.

“Here are the profitability facts of the major health care companies.”
Health care insurance companies are not taking in record profits right now. Their profits are lower than 2006 and 2007 by a long shot. Also, the industry averages about 5% profit as a whole, when compared to most retail or technology markets that enjoy 15-20% profits. This also ignores that health insurances companies invest in future medical technologies and research. During the Clinton administration, a study found that for every person who invested $65 dollars a year into medical research, they saved up to $5k a year on medical costs for new innovations. So it makes sense that a health insurance company would be interested in investing in new technologies and research to make you healthy and save them money. It makes good business sense. That’s something the government doesn’t do a good job of.

“Medical-loss ratios for 2005 (Source: Company 10-K, year-end filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission):
76.9% – Aetna
82.3% – Cigna
83.9% – Health Net
83.2% – Humana
78.6% – UnitedHealth Group
80.6% – WellPoint”
Just thought I would point out that while that shows the percentage spent on health care, it does not mean that the resulting percentage is profit. The insurance companies do have employees correct? Those costs are not included, and those costs will also be included in any government plan.
The only potential argument you could have on a cost basis for single payer is the elimination of the need for marketing. However, that cost would be marginal, and when compared to the inefficiencies which would crop up due to the lack of competition, would be completely eliminated.
Overall I found your post misleading, and the data involved worthless in terms of comparison to any potential governmental system.

Obviously they have forgotten their demostrations and riots during the Vietnam days…haven’t they ?

Liberals have been using these tactics for years. They just don’t like it when the tables are turned.
P.S. conservatives and independents aren’t opposed to healthcare reform – just to the massive and expensive expansion of government being railroaded through by Pelosi and her gang.

The UK Socialized Medical systems is the 3rd largest employer in the world, ahead of them are employers like the Chinese Red Army.
Most employees are administration and they have a shortage of doctors. Their system has become the most expensive item in their governments budget. Most employees are administration and they have a shortage of doctors.
If the UK’s system is the worlds 3rd largest employer and they have 1/3rd our population, What would a US system look like. OMG. disastrous.
This is what the libs want another huge enormous Government program staffed by more Government employees.

Jenny,
Part of the problem is that most of the legislators haven’t read the legislation.

“I can barely afford it and have a HMO. If costs go up anymore, a lot more people will not have it.”
The plan doesn’t do much for health care costs, it addresses patient costs. That means that if you have a problem with health care costs, how does subsidizing the patient make them cheaper? They still cost the same, its just subsidized with tax payer money. We should be looking at the major costs to health care providers and how to reduce them.
An OBGYN in Florida pays an average of 200k a YEAR for malpractice insurance. Who do you think is paying for that? Patients. Thus, we aren’t addressing high health care costs, only patient costs.
How about government run malpractice insurance?

Personally, I welcome dissent. It is possible I could understand the other’s viewpoint and learn. However, if that dissent is couched in yelling, screaming, and just uncivil disruption, I can’t be bothered with the message they are trying to impart or the people who are trying to present it.

“What’s next? Chavez-like criminalization of critics? Shutting down voices of dissent?”
LOL, maybe they will borrow Bush’s “free speech zones” where protestors are coralled into pens far away from news cameras, then harrassed and intimidated, and often put on watch lists.
Short memory you have there.

Jenny———On Page 425 of Obama’s health care bill, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier.

Health care can and needs to be repaired. People need to take a step back and calm down. They need to listen to the facts not shout them down. Those who are shouting are afraid that if some hear what is being said will agree. Free speech is for both sides and we can discuss this in an orderly fashion where all can get to ask their questions but more importantly, the answeres can be heard. Stop listening to the distortions of the insurance companies as they are afraid to lose control and the talk show hosts who just want Obama to fail. This is more important…it involves our health care and if we do not addres it soon, none of us will have any. This president is courageous to tackle what no other president would. It is hard but he is willing to do this and he should be commended not demeaned like he has been at these meetings.

The Chicago Mafia is good as putting the opposition as mongers and conspirators. It worked during the elections but is not working now. We have become more aware and will not fall again.Mountains of lies soon rather than later will crumble.

Regarding ron : “Health care can not be realistically repaired with tort reform. Exhorbitant settlements from lawsuits is what drives medical costs.”
————————————
There are more cases every year of deaths in American hospitals, due to *already clearly* demonstrated malfeasance or incompetence or neglect, than there are wrongful death suits filed. The bar for filing is already incredibly high. How much more “reform” do we need?

“These are mostly “insurer of last resort” type programs, which is exactly what the public option is proposed to be.”
Kind of what medicaid is for? This public option is designed to compete with insurance companies and it will need to be paid for, thus taxes will have to go up. Then you are faced with the situation, pay taxes for the public options, or pay taxes and insurance premiums for a private option. How about we pay taxes on the public option if we sign up for the public option, if we don’t use it, we aren’t taxed? It is set up exact opposite right now, which means its intent is to drive out private insurance. When private insurance is driven out, we are forced into a single payer system. Then it will no longer be of “last resort” and will be the only resort unless your filthy rich.

“No need – know a lot of people that live in Canada – and though their health plan is not perfect it ranks 6th in the world – American is way down the bottom of the list!!!”
The infamous WHO ranking based on limited perspective perception. If the poll is conducted of people who only have experience in one system, does that poll correctly compare to another system? Of course not, but that’s exactly what the WHO ranking does. The only thing that ranking shows is what people THINK of their health care, without experiencing the other. They are completely disconnected.
Also about costs. It says that less are spent on patients in the social systems than ours. Well, thats not a good thing. Good health care costs good money. This shows rationed care, not a good “efficient” system. Health care costs are generally the same wherever you are, difference is either cost controls, or rationed care.

if – “-Jenny———On Page 425 of Obama’s health care bill, the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier” WHere did you find the info I spent most of the weekend getting nowhere? Please tell

World Health Organization’s rankings:
Rank Country
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

JENNY, Furthermore,
‘‘(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of
2 orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar
3 orders, which shall include—
4 ‘‘(I) the reasons why the development of
5 such an order is beneficial to the individual and
6 the individual’s family and the reasons why
7 such an order should be updated periodically as
8 the health of the individual changes;
9 ‘‘(II) the information needed for an indi10
vidual or legal surrogate to make informed deci11
sions regarding the completion of such an
12 order; and
13 ‘‘(III) the identification of resources that
14 an individual may use to determine the require15
ments of the State in which such individual re16
sides so that the treatment wishes of that indi17
vidual will be carried out if the individual is un18
able to communicate those wishes, including re19
quirements regarding the designation of a sur20
rogate decisionmaker (also known as a health
21 care proxy).

I would like to comment on another lobby paid commentator who said, “long line are a way of life for Canadians going to the doctor.”
Have you been to a local county hospital in Chicago? Have you seen the rats and the roaches and the bathrooms filled with vomit and blood. Have you seen peopple waiting for up to 24 hours to receive treatment?
Yes, Canadian/UK system is not perfect, I will even admit to the fact that Canadians have much fewer MRI machines per every 1000 people. Yet, based on all the information available, Canadians live longer, even if they have to wait to get treatment, they GET IT, and get it with standards in place that are lacking in the USA. Basic disregard for people is just outstanding, the only nation, that forces people to decide whether they want to send their kid to college to or to have a heart operation is none other than USA.
Keep on commenting on how you are afraid of a reform that will “take away the healt care” that you don’t even have, unless you have money to pay for it.
Before anybody comments, I would also ask them, have you been ever denied by insurance due to preexisting condition?
If not, please lower your tone.

No, you are wrong. I lived in Canada for six years. You have no idea what you are talking about. They are not ranked 6th in the world, they are 30th.
I had a child born in Canada and the experence was WORSE than my first child who was born in PANAMA!!! So Melanie, where do you get your facts? Have you ever been there or is this just more rhetoric BS.

Nancy “Let Them Eat Cake” Pelosi is a thoroughly corrupt, power-hungry elitist who harbors deep disdain for the average American and the Constitution. She represents everything we hate in a politician. Mark my words, her political days are numbered. She’s FINISHED.

PEOPLE!! WHERE IS A COPY OF THE PROPOSED BILL LOCATED. You keep citing sources and I want to read the darn thing. Someone please give me a web address or something.

Abby, I would be willing to bet you are on welfare , dont work, or Afician American. ????? that is the base of your thoughts

The ratings listed in the previous post come from none other than World Health Organization.
You don’t need to be a genius to realize that US is one of the most obese nations of the world. You don’t need to be a genius to realize that mortality rate in US is much higher than in Canada or United Kingdom.
You don’t have to be a genius to realize that it is for the benefit of the country to help people receive health care, not to prevent them from getting it.

lfrichar, how on earth do you get “Obama wants to euthanize grandma” from that out of context passage?
Sounds more like avoiding another “Bill Frist has examined the video tape of Terry Schiavo and has determined that she must remain on life support, despite the wishes of the family” debacle we saw under Dubya.

people look at the bill. It is not 1000 pages long only because it is printed in third grade reading lettering. High school student and college students have to read chapters prior to a test. Even if it was 2000 pages long it is their job All govenernment My wish is that we all had the same Health coverage and social security coverage that our politicians have. Maybe if they pass this health plan at least we will have the same health coverage.

Have we reached a level where if one doesn’t agree with someone, they are called “UnAmerican”, stupid, idiot, racist, etc.?

Protestors have always been organized and supported by groups of one kind or another. That doesn’t make their voices any less valid. Although, I do believe many of these people show up on their own as has been reported. I would go if my congressman would hold a meeting, but he won’t. And no lobbyist has contacted me.
The administration made a mulit-million dollar deal with the pharmaceutical industry. Does that make the ads the pharma industry pays for somehow less honest or true to the administration’s message?
All this name calling by Pelosi, et al, is a distraction to the message they don’t want to hear and they don’t want America to hear. A govt option is not wanted by a great number of Americans.

What is it going to take these politicians to realize they are working for the American people. We have the right to protest, especially a bill that would affect us all. They need to remember who they are and how they got there. If they keep overlookin us we might see a similar approach that happened during the French Revolution!

Sorry……I call it one of the few opportunities for citizens to voice their wishes to their representatives.
If they can’t handle the fact that citizens are not happy with what is being proposed…..that’s too bad.
Americans deserve to be heard, over the political spin.

Un-American? To dissent and question government is un-American? What drivel.
Has anyone noticed the subtle shift in wording. It is no longer “health care reform” it is now “health insurance reform”. The health insurance companies are now “villans”. All of this from Nancy Pelosi, who is a blithering idiot.

Melanie, In the eyes of the rest of the world we do everything wrong. Yet we give more to fight aids and hunger then any other nation on earth. Also if we rank so low on health care why do the wealth from other countries come here for care?

Melanie, have you ever spoken to a Canadian about taxes? cost of living?..you also stated they live longer…thats complete BS and please post facts..they are taxed more than 55% of their income, cost of living is insane!! Try 5 to 6 dollars a gallon for gas, a gallon of milk 4.50..now you get the idea how its paid for!! No thanks, I will not be taxed over half my income so you or anyone else can have it for free. Its called work ethic!! If you need more, work harder!

Sorry to say as a Obama supporter and voter that Pelosi is un American as well as Dodd and others like them. While I don’t agree in creating such a ruckus at town hall meeting that neither side is heard of discussed freedom of speech is very American.

“It isn’t exhorbitant payouts that drive their pricing, it’s exhorbitant profits. ”
This has been proven wrong over and over again. Politifact showed Obama lied about record profits. Health insurance companies average 5% profit compared to retail/technology markets that average 15-20%. Also, medical insurance companies invest in medical research, which a portion of profits go towards, the rest go towards your 401k. Garanteed, your 401k has health insurance investments.

Posted by: Jeff | Aug 10, 2009 11:47:14 AM
Take a look at the biggest ‘public option’, Medicare, one could argue that it should bring down prices because it is competition, trouble is, it doesn’t. Your private insurance is higher directly because of Medicare, they underpay an average of 20% for hospitals and 32% for doctors, costs which still exist and must be paid by someone, namely you. So what happens when the govt. decides that everyone should be on Medicare and they think a test costs 20% less than it really does, somewhere down the line this is going to result in fewer tests, less technology, or rationing. Another thing, seniors were promised when Medicare began that they would always be allowed to keep their private insurance, over time this choice disintegrated making it nearly impossible for seniors to have any other choice other than Medicare so today they are being told their benefits are going to be cut in this plan by 150 billion. Are they happy, no? Are they the ones who know they are some of the people who will be getting the shaft, yes. Are they the ones showing up at town halls by the hundreds yes.

Pelosi is telling us Americans that it is just courtesy that she gives you a headsup.
With the power in Senate, Congress and White House in the hands of Democrats, they don’t really need any of your input – so shut up.

Plain and simple, people are fighting back and will not shut or back down.Our capitalistic system is under attack by the progressive socialistic agenda. They will not prevail.This is not Venezuela !

“…No thanks, I will not be taxed over half my income so you or anyone else can have it for free. Its called work ethic!! If you need more, work harder!”
Posted by: Navvet | Aug 10, 2009 12:12:59 PM
Sorry if you think I need your help!!! I have the best health care money can buy in this country. I pay my taxes and I rather see those taxes go to pay for a public health insurance program that would cover those Americans who are too ‘wealthy’ to get Medicaid and to young to get Medicare but work their tail off to make a life for their family and just can’t afford private insurance and/or they have a pre-existing condition.
YOU SIR – WOULD RATHER PAY $10 BILLION A MONTH FOR WARS THEN TAKE CARE AMERICANS!!!

Do you want your medical care controlled by people who think it’s un-American to criticize them?

Reps better get used to dealing with the people asking sharp pointed questions at their meetings cause were mad as hell and were not going to take it any more !!!

Given the economic events of the past 10 months, people have seen their 401ks tank, their house values plummet, unemployment skyrocket to 9+% and the federal deficit quadrupled with threats of new taxes. Of course this has created fear and uncertainty. Now the administration and Congress decide is the time to ram through yet another massive, systemic altering policy that will intimately affect everyone’s life. Add to that, existing healthcare programs run by the government – Medicare, Medicaid and the VA system are rife with fraud and abuse and how are we supposed to trust that the public option will be any different. Add to that the CBO is emphatic that the program will increase costs and not provide added coverage. Add to that the new cost of employment put on small businesses during a recession and we will never create desperately needed new jobs. Add to that no change in lawyers ability to sue doctors for not performing every procedure in the book; a major factor in cost increases. Worse still, the debate over the healthcare bill has become only about winning and expanding the power of the government over people’s lives. It’s no longer about fixing the healthcare system. Congress and the administration are now demonizing and bullying people who exercise their free speech rights to question and disagree with public officials. I for one am sick of this Congress and this administration’s name calling and bullying. Don’t even get me started on the report on your neighbor web site! People have legitimate concerns – let them talk!!!

YEAH! Keep the government out of my medicare!
Uh. Wait. nevermind.

Posted by: lfrichar | Aug 10, 2009 12:16:47 PM
So you are against writing a “Living Will” – having a discussion with your own personal doctor and deciding on the type of treatment you want later in life – whether you want extraordinary care to keep you alive on machines or not… There is nothing wrong with creating a LIVING WILL – all Americans should have them and, finally, will have the chance to get them at little to no expense.

“Congress decide is the time to ram through yet another massive, systemic altering policy that will intimately affect everyone’s life.”
Yes, it will have major effect on people’s life – primarily, by giving them basic right to receive health care even if they cannot afford it.
You think that you are OK, because you are financially secure and have a stable job, very good insurance, that you perhaps don’t want to loose, I can understand that. But imagine this – you get sick, you loose your job, your deductibles and copays add up, and you go bankrupt. Your private hospital no longer wants to see you because your insurance will no longer pay the bill.
Think twice about spreading disinformation.

People, I really would like an answer to this question: If the government-run option is such a necessary and wonderful thing, why is the Congress writing into the bill they will give up their current gold-plated health insurance for themselves and their federal employees, sign up for the government plan for one election cycle, then come back and tell us how great it is. They can test it out, see how it works, and then if it works we will all sign up. If someone can answer that one question for me I will support this bill.

KR, I agree its insane. If we had a pure capitalist system, doctors who are convicted of malpractice would go bankrupt and out of practice. If we had any controls on doctor malpractice, we’d delicense the 5% of doctors that cause most of the injuries.
Right now, 50,000 to 100,000 people die each year due to medical errors, and the only control is a malpractice lawsuit.
It is really stupid, I agree.

“War is the federal governments responsibility. Providing you health care insurance is not the federal governments responsibility, ”
What a joke, war is nothing more than a profiteering for the few firms had/have
board members/vice president/presidents that are only interested in profits.

People – take your kool aid and stop complaining. Even though it’s suppose to be a government for, by, and of the people, it’s none of your business how things are done!!!

Melanie ——- “Living will” is good, I am against the possibility a doctor “MAY” or MAY NOT not decide may sign orders for life sustaining treatment.

WA! WA! WA! Dont think that by passing this idiotic health care bill is justified because the tax payer has to foot the bill for people who have no insurance. I have health coverage and pay taxes. Our taxes have to go somewhere and futhermore taxes will never go away. So suck it up!!! Stop using Taxes as a reason for passing this wacked out health care plan!

“if they envisioned the federal government giving everyone a piece of the ‘all men are created equal’ ‘truths’…. they would have included women, non-whites and native americans in the doc.. but I guess that little omission had to be added later”
Well thats rather rediculous of a statement. What would we call “mankind” today? Humankind. You would have to know a little about cultural norms to understand what they said. When the framers said all men are created equal, it was used in the terms of “mankind”, a term we still use today. And thier statement of all men created equal was visionary for their time. While they did mean it during the framing, adopting it took time, something they were aware of at the time. They didn’t envision the consitution would abolish slavery or change policy on indians. They also called it an “imperfect” union. So please, don’t use these demographic arguments. They are so childish.

Here’s something to ask Mr Gibbs about…
Sunday, August 09, 2009
Your Taxpayer Dollars at Work! Obama is Paying the Thugs and Activists Using Schemes, Ads and other scams
Need a job?
Build the public support it is going to take to pass health care reform this summer with the California Public Interest Research Group (CALPIRG). Go out in your community and make change happen. And make friends and money along the way.
Earn $350-500 per week. To apply for a job, visit our website or call Chris at (916) 455-5000.

“Living will” is good, I am against the possibility a doctor “MAY” or MAY NOT not decide may sign orders for life sustaining treatment.
Posted by: lfrichar | Aug 10, 2009 12:33:35 PM
You don’t think private insurance employees decides whether are not you get a treatment??!!?? Please…

I have actually read the wikipedia article, unlike some others who would rather listen to radio talk shows, and commentators commenting on comments…
” the U.S. spends more per capita than any other nation in the world,[11] but is the only wealthy industrialized country in the world that lacks some form of universal health care.”
Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations, Institute of Medicine at the National Academies.
(Yes, this was written by none other than US government agency, not some nut)

These people at the town hall meetings are not loons. They are concerned Americans who are saying no to what Obama is selling. Why is it that the Dems objections to bills, people, etc. makes them enlightened, moral intellectuals and those who oppose their stance are crazy morons who are mob members that have been placed in these meetings by the Republicans? Obama, Pelosi, and their ilk had better wise up. Those of us who put them where they are might just decide to remove them in the coming elections.

Gina | Aug 10, 2009 12:32:46 PM- Another example of spouting off with not a bit of proof! People are attempting to speak, the “protesters” don’t allow a debate, they dust scream and threaten. You said by the people, so what is the issue? The majority of Americans want HCR! I don’t expect an answer, your one of those that posts under numerous names to make it seem people agree with you! Think about it, if you have to do that, it’s sad!

I hear all the, “this will bring cost down”, but here is my question:
What happens if this gets signed into law, and it DOES NOT bring the costs down and the system becomes a mess like Medicare, Medicaid, The VA, IRS and about all other Government run system are in??
At that point, the Government OWNS us. They OWN us more then they do now. What will we do then?
We depend on then now to TAX us equally, but they do not. They use taxes to get our votes. What do you think they will do with this? The SAME THING!
Yes, we NEED TAX REFORM, but I DO NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. Sorry. I do not and can not.

Oops; “NEED TAX REFORM” should be “NEED HEALTH CARE REFORM”

I love this so much I will quote it:
Indeed, insurance agencies can choose to deny you treatment, stating that it would be experimental, or that it is excluded because of pre-existing limitations.
Until somebody experiences a loss of a close one, who was fully insured, but because insurance refused to pay for the treatment, I don’t think they realize how silly and unhealthy this discussion has become – blaming people of being not aligned with the American spirit, for being socialist and fascist;
people, wake up and turn off your TVs, as it seems that the media pundits have caused major chaos in your brain.
I encourage everyone to read the bill, and if they do not like something in it, or have any proof that it will hurt America, maybe you can be American enough to provide suggestions as to how to improve the bill, instead of wasting everyone’s time.

Pauldia –
The PIRGs in each state, such as California Public Interest Research Group (CALPIRG)have been around since 1971, when Obama was 10 years old. It was started by Ralph Nader as a way to protect consumers. Let the misinformation about the PIRGs stop here!

Un-American is when Pelosi accuses our intelligence community liars. Un-American is when Pelosi and Congress chastises executives for flying expensive jets to congressional dog and pony show to testify before a bunch of clowns who themselves just approved millions for private jets”
And since it was verified afterwards that the CIA, under Cheney’s order, HAD INDEED LIED to Congress for years…. so what’s your point?? she was right, the right-wing was wrong (as usual).
And I’m sure you’d just love to see Ms. Pelosi fly public airlines after Glenn Beck all but declared a fatwa on her life to his minions of American Taliban nutjobs/domestic terrorists.

Personalize Heathcare, don’t Nationalize it. I want to keep control.

Melanie. No, there are SOME Americans that need help but there are many who are just lazy or dare I say it, illegal.
They are the reason that the few who need cannot recieve it.

That’s some true American Spirit.
“They are the reason that the few who need cannot recieve it.”
Bravo!

Pelosi and her cronies want to shush the shouters because they don’t want any questions asked except by those that they have planted in the front rows of the town hall meetings. The Democrats are sending in the thugs from ACORN to to quell any protest to their socialists health plan for this nation. A plan that is intended to tax the responsible citizens of this nation who work and pay outrageous premiums for health care for their families because the illegals drive up the cost by getting all of their care free in Emergency Rooms across this country. Under Pelosi-Obama’s plan the illegals will continue to get their health care free and the rest of us who have health coverage will be taxed to death to pay for it.

I think these idiot democrats need to remember who they work for.

“This is such a loaded example. There are soo many issues between state laws etc. Look, if you enter into a contract with health insurance, you need to know the details. But, to think that the insurance company can simply breach the contract at a whim isn’t entirely true. You sign a form and agree to the policy, the insurer (as per insurance laws) cannot opt out at a whim. You don’t think state and federal laws haven’t addressed this in the past? It has. You have to look it up”
You know what I will do, if you continue, I will look up the cases, numerous cases against illegal insurance activities (denials of care, breach of contracts) and post it here.
For your satisfaction, you seem to be having pleasure by discrediting other people.

“The U.S. Constitution doesn’t have any provision in it to fund highways, bridges, or water in it. It doesn’t say the government should fund fire, police, or a military either.”
pssst… those are state functions except for military. The constitution DOES discuss directly about the military and common defense. Should read it sometime.
The federal government subsidizes state responsibilities, such as police, fire, highways etc. The only federal system was the interstate system by Eisenhower, specifically born out of national defense and movement of forces in case of an invasion of the US.

I have read 750 pages of hr3200. It appears that the government is plannig to take complete control of your health. I agree that it will create jobs to adminster the plan. The adminstrtive cost is going to cost more than the health care. Contact your congress person to vote no on this bill, not that it will do any good if he is a democrat like mine. Keep up sticking up for obama Jake, he might find a job for you yet.

“Folks, common sense here. Good health care costs good money does it not? More spent on our health care per capita than these other nations is NOT A BAD THING!! It points to rationed care and cost controls in those other nations. Why is it so hard to get this?”
Then tell me why are we ranked 34th in the world for our health care system, 72nd for performance, and 24th for life expectancy. We have rationed care now by the insurance companys they drop 14,000 ppl everyday from health care because they become a “liability” to the company. todate the insurance companys have droped 2.5 million americans. by the end of the year they would have droped 5.1 million americans is that not rationed care. is it not rationed care when a company denies you a operation that will save your life?

Wow, Ralph. Talk about fallacious information. Every single person in Nevada has been dropped from their health insurance company so far this year?
They are not lying to seniors and those on Medicare. Obama has told it to us straight! He will cut 500 BILLION in payments and services from us in order to help pay for his desired overhaul of the system. Instead of scrutinizing Medicare and ridding it of corruption and fraud, he will simply cut services to those who depend on health care services the most. What’s broken about Medicare is not the patients overusing it or the ethical doctors who are trying to work within it’s confines and getting shafted, but the fraud and corruption that is RIPE in every big government entity. There is no mistaking that(even more) RATIONING is coming to MEDICARE, because the President has told us so. Is that not considered un-American? To sell out the disabled and Golden generation to pay for his paternalistic plan to control Americans lives?
I want out of Medicare so bad but I don’t have that option right now. I had it so good on private insurance, and after doing taxes last year it cost me only $2400 more for out of pocket expenses in 2007 on private than for my costs on Medicare. That is so negligible that I now know that I made a terrible decision opting into Medicare when I was offered the option.

“People are attempting to speak, the “protesters” don’t allow a debate, they dust scream and threaten.”
Yawn.
The unspoken leftist mantra: Accuse your enemies of what you yourself do.

Is the government failing in assuring people rights?
Yes it is, because PEOPLE have to bring INSURANCE companies to court. Government does little to help people who have been neglected by insurance companies.
I am sure you work for a big company and have insurance that you think will never do such a thing to you or your children. How about that case when insurance company (Aetna) denied coachlear implant for both ears, saying that having it in both ears is experimental, for a child who was growing up. As soon as they realized that this will bring national attention, they called the family and said “we have overturned our decision.”
How about that?

Questioning government at every turn is as American as our flag. That is what our country was founded on so for some yahoos in Congress to brand anyone unamerican is really quite laughable.
Here is a really good idea. All those that are now in office, need to be voted out during the next election regardless of how long they have been in office.
Working as a politican in our government was never intended to be a full-time job so especially for those that have been in office for eons, they need to go.

Yes, we are a bunch of insane people, wishing that our children and grandchildren would not have to bother with insurance companies that might or might not provide coverage for care.

I see the democratic controlled SEIU union or wait maybe its the SEIU controlled democratic party is all about free speech or he best one Obama’s ACORN.

Yes, shouting down your fellow citizens IS American, only if that fellow is doing something wrong.
Shouting at politicians who refuse to answer questions that were not posed, is not so American.
Anyway, it seems that this tactic is working, just deflect the issue, and go blaming each other for being un-American. That’s truly American.

Everyone should have reasonable access to health care, and that is simply not the case in our country.
Everyone EXCEPT illegals and those who cannot afford it AND/OR are lazy.

“Yes it is, because PEOPLE have to bring INSURANCE companies to court. Government does little to help people who have been neglected by insurance companies.”
Is the laws government? Does the court (government) apply the law? Why is this method not desirable? Are you saying our court system (governmetn) is a failure or failing? If thats the case, why advocate more government?
“I am sure you work for a big company and have insurance that you think will never do such a thing to you or your children.”
Contrary, I was military for 13 years and currently a government contractor. Experiencing both government care and private care, theres no doubt which one is better quality. I had spine issues while flying in the Navy. Navy doc said “your back is fine” and denied me an MRI. A year later, with a different doc, he gave me an MRI and found 4 bad discs in my back. In frustration, i paid out of pocket to go to a specialist that told me surgery was the only course. No way was I letting these same military docs cut on my back.
“How about that case when insurance company (Aetna) denied coachlear implant for both ears, saying that having it in both ears is experimental, for a child who was growing up. As soon as they realized that this will bring national attention, they called the family and said “we have overturned our decision.”
Did the FDA say it was experimental, thus not approved? Most insurance policies do not cover experimental procedures, is that illogical? Guess what, neither does the government. If you think this example would be different with government insurance, you’re sadly mistaken.

I am an American – proud of it. Now this lady has called me Un-American – why because I disagree with her. Listen here lady – it is one of my most American things we can do – that is – to voice our opinion and let our voices be heard. This nation was created by people who let their voices be heard. Lets just hope at the next election people are actually listening. You don’t belong in that office – soon hopefully you will be replaced. Maybe we can get someone in there who understands what America is.

You want to make health care right, then make your sick family member apply for insurance and get denied. See how fast the family member will die fighting the system.

Even Republicans admit that their methods are radical… that they are “strong arm” tactics justified by the fact that Saul Alinsky wrote about them years ago… and Alinsky was a leftist!
And, everyone knows, that if a Liberal has done it in the past, this gives Republicans the right to do it without limit in perpetuity.

“Are you kidding me, these numbers that come from the World Health Organization they do not take into account people falling over and hitting their head.”
Um… yes it does. Average life expectancy of the population does not seperate by health care recieved, its for the entire population. Look into the numbers, it’s right there. It includes drug users, alchoholics, etc etc.
“if our system was so great we would be #1 in all fields. It’s because of people like you that all this mis-information is spread.”
I’m spreading misinformation? I’m telling people to look more closely at the data that was used because it doesn’t accurately depict the health care situation. As a matter of fact, if you take data that only compares health care recieved, such as cancer survival rates which is directly attributed to early detection and treatment, the US is the world leader. How do you explain that away genius?

How about learning basic communication skills, and the proper way to propose a question to your favorite politician.
Perhaps that is impossible, due to lack of substance and assumptions in the question, such they are not, and will never be answered, all you can do is keep yelling.

It’s a good thing none of those righteous Liberals ever objected to anything George Bush and his administration did (or tried to do).

Now we are unamerican to practice freedom of speech and the right to assemble. The democrates are afraid to come out and answer question so they are lieing to save face. Guess what?? You will not be re-elected into the life long position you think you have. And for Obama the americas first communist dictator under the guise of a dictator will not be re-elected if not impeached.

Preventing folks from having a discussion at a town hall meeting by deliberatly shouting everyone down is not “freedom of speach”. It’s harrassment. There are limits on everything. Your “right” to swing you fist ends where the next guys nose begins. Your “right” to express your opinion ends where it prevents someone else from doing the same.

“Tell Obama about cancer survival rates. His mother surely attributes her “long” life to the “early detection and treatment” options that were offered to her by the insurance company.”
Wow, never seen this tactic before. Take factual data and try to refute it with a single situation. Wait wait, let me look at the data again.. nope didn’t change, US still leads the world in early detection, treatment, and survival rates for cancer. How could that be if Obama’s mother died of cancer? Crazy facts. Someone should change these facts to reflect Obamas mother.

FOUND ON PAGE 30 OF OBAMACARE BILL
SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE.
13 (1) IN GENERAL.— There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a 15 panel member panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee, to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced and premium plans.
This part of the bill goes on to describe how the panel is selected: the Surgeon General, plus 9 members who are appointed by the President (cannot be employed by the Federal government or elected officials), and 9 members appointed by the Comptroller General of the U.S. (cannot be employed by Fed. Govt or elected officials).
In essence, this committee will be exactly what Sarah Palin described it – a death panel. They will decide what care a person gets, and how much care. Decisions will be made using the Complete Lives philosophy expounded by the left-wing Democrats. Simply put, this philosophy says that people between the ages of 14 and 40 are of most value to society, and therefore deserve most of the available healthcare dollars. Next will be younger children and infants. The elderly and infants who are born with disabilities will receive benefits, as they are supposedly a drain on the collective group’s resources.
Is this really what America believes? To me, it isn’t. It sounds like something from Nazi Germany.
Please, people, READ THE BILL. You won’t like what you find.

As a community organizer, Barack Obama trained people to intimidate those in power in order to achieve a goal. He was awfully proud of his early efforts to change the political landscape. Why does the community organizer now object when the community organizes against him?

Bob, I wouldn’t compare the Federal Post Office with Fedex. That’s Apples and Oranges because Fedex is typically express mail for the Post Office, and that starts not at 44 cents, but $4.95 and it can get up to $16 quickly depending where are shipping.
Then ontop of that, the Post Service is shutting down Post Offices all over to cut cost, and many of the mid-management jobs so the Post Service is not seeing it’s best days right now. That means they will have to keep raising prices to meet the market or keep slashing jobs and offices for the shortfall.

Had our forefathers been contenet to “sit down and shut up”, there wouldn’t be an American Way to defend. Folks who try to cram unpopular programs down the throats of others should expect a gag reflex that may have unpleasant outcomes.
The Clintons tried to do this early on in the Bill-ary White House and now we’re getting The Second Dose. I wonder if this effort might be connected to Hillary’s decision to end her campaign – sort of “I’ll quit if you push health care reform” kind of a deal.

Page 50, Section 152 of Obamacare (HR 3200)
SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.
22 (a) IN GENERAL.—Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
Translation: Free healthcare for illegal aliens (at the expense of taxpayers).
DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. READ THE BILL.

Gobot, you said that the gist of town hall protesters’ argument was “everyone but us needs to shut up.” Funny, I didn’t know the president was a town hall protester.
Here’s what he said last week, “But I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.” OF course, he figures he gets to decide who “the folks who created the mess” are. And apparently his assessment and mine on that matter are not always in sync.

It is the house and its leadership that is being Un-American and betraying the Amercan people by not taking the time to think through and carefully define the provisions and implications of this bill on the American people, nor putting measures in place to measure the new program.

The Democrats scream that the townhall & tea party protests are “organized.” Even if they were, isn’t that exactly what Obama’s “Organizing for America” is all about – organizing protests?
The hypocrisy of Obama and his band of thugs is truly amazing.

This is the same kind of stupid organized and orchestrated crap as the “taxation” rallies that were held earlier (if you remember them). Republicans want you to think that this is a grass roots campaign that just happened spontaneously. Anyone with any intelligence can see it for what it is – more ridiculous manipulations by your friendly Republicans. It is sad they have nothing else of any value to offer.

“Wow, never seen this tactic before. Take factual data and try to refute it with a single situation. Wait wait, let me look at the data again.. nope didn’t change, US still leads the world in early detection, treatment, and survival rates for cancer.”
Yes again thinking “we’re number one” because your insecure right wing brain needs to does not mean it is so.
“Coleman and colleagues drew on data from nearly 2 million cancer patients, ages 15 to 99, whose medical information was entered into 101 population-based cancer registries in 31 countries. The patients had been diagnosed with one of four cancers: breast, colon, rectum, or prostate cancers during the years 1990-1994. They were followed up to 1999, with the researchers comparing five-year survival rates.
The highest survival rates were found in the U.S. for breast and prostate cancer, in Japan for colon and rectal cancers in men, and in France for colon and rectal cancers in women, Coleman’s team reports.
In Canada and Australia, survival was also high for most cancers.
“Survival in the USA is high on a global scale but varies quite widely among individual states as well as between blacks and whites within the USA,” he tells WebMD.”

When Democrat leaders start calling American citizens “mobsters” and “un-American,” it smacks of desperation. Don’t these people read the polls?
So-called journalist Andrea Mitchell suggested on MSNBC that Americans “might not know what’s best for them.”
So now we’re not just racist, redneck, un-American mobsters, but we’re also too stupid to know what’s good for us?
Way to go, Democrats!!!! Insulting the voters is exactly the right strategy to keep your elected positions. As a Republican-leaning Independent, I say keep up the good work!!!!!!

If you speak up your un-American, so shut up and pay your taxes !!!

We tried to ask questions at the town hall meeting I attended. People stood in line and one at a time went to the mick. Ron Klein was not there and his two office aides never answered a question. They looked bored, taking notes and said: “We will get these notes to Mr. Klein.” No wonder people feel that no one in Wash.cares about their opinions;, they just want to get the bill passed so they can look good to the liberal Pres. who is running this country like a dictatorship. We will not “quit talking” so that you can get your way. Your are suppose to care about what the people want and most Americans do not want this healthcare bill. Listen to us!!!

Why is it when a liberal protests it is free speech and when a conservative protests it is part of a mob or artificial?
Why doesn’t ABC cover both sides of the story. Oh yea, I forgot they LOVE Obama no matter how far from the constitutional principles he is taking this country.

“Why is it when a liberal protests it is free speech and when a conservative protests it is part of a mob or artificial?”
Probably because you have Republicans officials showing up to these things pretending to be just folks.

“Yes again thinking “we’re number one” because your insecure right wing brain needs to does not mean it is so.”
Wasn’t me Ryan, was a European group talking about their cancer care lagging behind the U.S. There are 391 posts here already but its down a few pages by now that someone else posted. Can probably find it. They should put a search function on posts.

Ryan C and I agree on something: READ THE BILL. Then make up your mind.
Support for this bill is going down in the polls because people are beginning to actually read it.
Liberals always like to think that the GOP somehow controls ordinary people with their “right-wing propaganda.” Well, if they did, McCain would have won the election in 2008.
The truth is, the Average Joe is pretty smart. They don’t listen to Republican OR DEMOCRATIC propaganda. They make up their own minds, as they are doing now.

@Ryan C. There is no use in arguing with the right wingers. It is exasperating because instead of having an intelligent debate about the merits of healthcare reform, they resort to name calling and disseminating false information. What Right wingers fail to understand is a) insurance companies already ration health care (in order to make a HUGE profit), b) Bush prevented Medicare from negotatiating for lower drug prices (as all other gov’ts do), and c) the U.S. has one of the highest costs of health care. We HAVE to get the cost down. As someone in the health care field, with friends who are physicians not only in the U.S. but also in Germany, France, Australia, Eastern Europe, etc, I’ve been able to see both sides of the equation from both the patient perspective and the physicians perspective. We desperately need health care reform. I am of the opinion that single payer is the only way to go, ala France or Germany, but if someone can present an intelligent alternative, I’d be happy to hear it.

“We’d better do something now. Even if it’s wrong. We can fix it later.”
Well then, lets fix medicare/medicaid first then before we sign up for another “even if it’s wrong”? We should demand the government get something right before they bite off on another thing to get wrong.

It is un-American to exercise your First Amendment rights and ordinary citizens shouldn’t have Second Amendment rights, that should be reserved for the elite. What the heck, let’s just circumvent the whole Constitution and let Obama do what he thinks is best for the country. It’s un-American, racist and treasonist to criticize our president or anything he does. You people should be ashamed and face a firing squad.

I really don’t know if this is a good bill or not, but neither does congress my only question is WHAT IS THE HURRY, slow down and make sure it’s a good bill.

“”a) insurance companies already ration health care (in order to make a HUGE profit)”
EXACTLY!
Have a pre-exisitng condition and you won’t get covered.
Get sick and they drop you.”
Come on now with the one-liners. “HUGE profit” of the industry, I’m guessing is stemming from the presidents state of “record” profits that turns out to not be true. Their profits this year are far below that of 2006 and 2007, and have been in decline with the economy. Also, their profit margin is below retail and technology markets. Insurance profits an average of 5%, compared to 15-20% of other markets.

The only anti-americans are the partisans who imported, alien philosophies as socialism, comunism and marxism to our country, the USA. We do not recognize Marx, Engles and the rest of them as our patriots. The patriots that we recognized are our forefathers Jefferson, Adams and the rest of them. The great Lincoln.. etc.The anti- american mantra comming from the left is a real joke.

Top House Democrats Call Town Hall Disruptions ‘Un-American’ – and yet they somehow miss that socialism is very, very Un-American.

We already have nationalized health care. Look to each Native American trible and the health care they have. It is the worst in the world. Even third world countries have better health care than native Americans. We also have Medicare and Medicaid. Both of which are about bankrupt and Congress has done nothing to help out. I am all for a nationalized health care system as long and every congress person, the President and his family and all members of his cabinet are part of the health care plan. If they won’t join it, then it AIN’T good enough for me.

Sentinel – Spare us your phony outrage. A conservative speaker cannot even give a lecture on a college campus anymore because her or she will be threatened, booed off the stage, or physically removed from the scene. I have never seen liberals treated this way in the public arena. Now, the republicans are tearing a page out of the democrat playbook: Public mobilization, marches and scream tactics. You guys invented this. So now, when we turn the tables on you, you cry foul. Pathetic. Why can’t liberals stand on their own two feet?

Americans have the right to voice their opinion whether they agree or disagree with the government. The democrats and republicans need to get their act together and start listening to the people of this country instead of taking care of own interests.

Ryan C. doesn’t seem to like my comments. Ryan, you can always report me to thugs-r-us@whitehouse.gov or 1-800-KARLMARX.
Below is the info you will need to turn me in:
Janet KissMyButt
We Love Glenn Beck Lane
Red State, America 62231

The Dems have attacked the 2nd and 14th Amendment already. Why not the 1st Amendment to the Consitution of the US.

“Blame the customer not the insurance company!
To sum up the right wing case we should praise the insurance industry for making healthy profits only covering healthy people and scorn the government for rationing care.”
Um… no. Take at look at insurance laws. It is tied to contractual law. The only way an insurance company can opt out of the contract is under breach of contract terms, terms of contract met, or a law being broken in execution of the contract. I say this because there is a deliberate attempt to MISINFORM people about arbitrary dropping of insurance when thats illegal. Being illegal then you can take them to court to apply the law. There are a ton of insurance laws created to protect you under good contract terms.

“KR, didn’t you see “Sicko”?”
Lol is this a joke? Moore is a master at ommitting facts to paint a picture and influence his viewers. It is an art. To give you an example, Kevin Rhoads did an analysis on Fahrenheit 911. You can search it, it’s online. It outlines the tactics Moore takes to omit facts and paint a picture. I would never take anything out of a Moore movie as an example of anything other than the point of view of Mr. Moore.

“Um… no. Take at look at insurance laws. It is tied to contractual law. The only way an insurance company can opt out of the contract is under breach of contract terms, terms of contract met, or a law being broken in execution of the contract. I say this because there is a deliberate attempt to MISINFORM people about arbitrary dropping of insurance when thats illegal.”
And yet it happens.
The right wing is about protecting insurance company profits so they attack they consumer who gets hosed by their insurance company.
That is their tactic just like KR attacking the ADL because they said Rush Limbaugh’s Hitler screed was offensive.

“Where are all the poll numbers you used to post when Obama was winning?”
Winning? You mean the election?
Well see that happened last November and he won.
Currently he sits at 53.5% approval according to RCP’s poll aggregate.

I dont see the “un-american” angle. So, we are no longer granted freedom of speech? We are no longer allowed to speak our minds? When did this happen? Are we communist already? That was fast!

If this is such a good plan, then why are the democrats trying to strongarm it thru with their Capone tactics? The true UN-AMERICANS are the House Democratics that refuse to acknowledge WE DONT’ WANT THIS1

Funny how when Bush was around it was the Democrats proclaiming that “Dissent is Patriotic”.
Hypocrite much?

“Or how about the poll numbers showing Americans aren’t buying Obamacare?”
Actually the polls show good support for things like making insurance companies cover those with preexisting conditions, a public option and providing insurance for those who are too poor to afford it on their own.
Things like taxing employer provided benefits or changing Medicare did not do well in polling.
Pew: “Although the public has a more negative than positive general reaction to the health care proposals being debated on Capitol Hill, there is broad support for many of the core elements of the legislation currently before Congress. Nearly two-in-three (65%) favor requiring that all Americans have health insurance, with the government aiding those who cannot afford it. Nearly as many (61%) favor requiring employers who do not provide insurance to pay into a government health care fund. And there is broad support (79%) for prohibiting insurance companies from denying insurance to people with pre-existing conditions.
But reactions to the methods proposed to make sure more people have access to health care coverage are mixed. A thin 52% majority favor a government health insurance plan to compete with private plans. There is broad support (63%), however, for raising the taxes on affluent people to help pay for changes to the health care system. On the other hand, there is equally strong opposition (62%) to new taxes on employees with health insurance benefits above a certain value. Most (58%) also oppose putting tighter restrictions on what medical procedures Medicare and Medicaid will cover.”

“Yes, it is known they are looking for anything they can to deny coverage if somebody gets the big one.”
I don’t think this is false. The first thing they do is make sure they were not lied to on thier application about the condition. The lie would be fraud and thus, breach of contract and they no longer have to honor it.
However, we shouldn’t be switching insurance so much. We shouldn’t be forced into group plans with employers. We should stay with one insurance unless we can get a better deal elsewhere. Instead, change jobs, change plans, eventually thats going to bite you. If you can be a customer of ATT for 20 years, why not health insurance?

“I said did the ADL scorn Democrats for calling protestors “brown shirts” and of course, the answer is no.”
You attacked the ADL because your favorite pig Rush got called out for his offensive speech.

Funny how when Bush was around it was the Democrats proclaiming that “Dissent is Patriotic”.
Hypocrite much?
Posted by: Anya | Aug 10, 2009 2:41:22 PM
========================
You leaving out one thing..
THIS IS A TOWN HALL. I place for civil organized discussion.
If you want the protest. Picket outside the place. Obvious none of these beet red folks with the foam coming out their mouths and steam billowing out their ears are not looking to discuss/reason anything.

“I don’t think this is false. The first thing they do is make sure they were not lied to on thier application about the condition. The lie would be fraud and thus, breach of contract and they no longer have to honor it.”….. Well, if “forgotten” strep throat in 1979 was truly an indicator that one would have cancer in 2005 I suppose this would be a legit argument. No, it is not about fraud. Fraud is they knew they had cancer when they took out the new policy. This is about cruelty to make a buck. Why is it so many of you think insurance companies are full of virtue? There are horrible stories out there. Like I said – try Google.

“Nice racist statement from a member of the Party of Tolerance. My God, Ryan, you are pathetic.
Posted by: mm | Aug 10, 2009 2:46:21 PM”
Associating conservatives with the Klan is racist?
Look up the Council of Conservative Citizens.

The right to dissent and to differ in opinion is a distinctly American right.
Are the Democrats saying that we do not have the right of dissent and to question government? Really?
The real problem is that Democrats dislike free choice and that fact that others disagree with them.
I plan to continue calling them to the carpet to explain their socialist plans and to continue to be in their face at every chance to stop the slide away from free enterprise and into their dream Marxist state they so love.
Long Live America and it’s founding ideals.
Jon

Jon,
As far as I’m concerned yes you have all the right in the world to make complete a$$es out of yourselves. Carry on. We would expect nothing less anymore.

BTW Jon, Tell me. In 2003 when Bush and republicans passed a several billion dollar expansion of entitlement called Medicare Plan D? What did you say then?

“You seem unwilling to admit that the ADL came out against Rush, but did not come out against the Democrats calling protesters “brown shirts”,”
The ADL came out against Rush for his extensive comparison of Obama to Hitler.
In you mind it was a sin that they did not come out against a brown shirt comment.
I also do not recall them taking right wingers to task for calling Obama’s AmeriCorp proposal his brown shirt army.
But I guess the ADL were oh so wrong to dare call Rush offensive.
They should have known they would be attacked by his brownshir…err…dittoheads.

Janet – Thank you for your words… Although Glen Beck is a little too much for me.

Janet – They’re “dishing it back on republicans” because they have remotely tried to do a bit of bi-partisan here. It’s obvious it gets them nowhere. They will pass something and all of your screeching will be for nothing. Today in my hometown? Big article on how they’re probably going to pull bennies of retired police and firemen. Because they’re broke. So, add a few more that want this most likely.

“Some of us don’t give up principles for party leaders.”
Psssst principles are not “cause Rush said so”.

“An uninsured person fighting cancer typically doesn’t run out for that lawyer. If they do? Well, it might get settled by the time they’re dead or cured. If you don’t believe me seek information.”
They get the care, question is do they go into debt or does the insurance cover it. The court figures that out. Unless the courts are not doing their job? This comes down to a failure of the application of the law, or the law being broken. All of which are government functions and if it’s not working, why look to the government to fix it with something else?
Personally, I think anyone with medical debt should qualify for interest free government loan, paid back through taxes.

“They explained they did not like the comparisons to Nazi-ism. Well…? Why would that apply to a radio talk show host and not a member of Congress?”
All this attacking the ADL just to defend Rush Limbaigh….amazing.
Btw, Has the ADL commented on Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin?
Or did they just go after Rush because his commentary was particularly offensive.

KR – As much as we might disagree? I like your last line. In the old days we owed. Funny how that’s not allowed anymore.

It’s one thing to protest, bring signs, and chant outside. It’s another when people try and pack a room to the degree that it’s a fire hazard or threatens the safety of people.
It’s especially a whole other thing when people THREATEN VIOLENCE AND DROWN OUT the voices of other citizens from being able to speak their mind.
Many of these “protesters” scream at the top of their never allowing anyone else to speak. That IS definitely “unAmerican”!!
First Amendments rights are for ALL people, not just Republicans.

You know KR, that might not be a bad idea.

“As much as we might disagree? I like your last line. In the old days we owed. Funny how that’s not allowed anymore.”
I think there are more creative ways to address our health care issues. Concentrating on lowers the actual cost of health care, by looking at providers and what their big costs are and finding ways to lower that. Federal government putting more into the private R&D sector, no interest loans for medical debt, etc. We don’t have to try and recreate insurance with the government, but use market economics to bring the costs down. But this current bill does very very little for this.

“This poll was probably conducted by phone with people below the middle class level.”
Pew did it.
“the latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted July 22-26 among 1,506 adults reached on landlines and cell phones”

Who was the Russian General who said the United States would break up into 4 sections within 2 years of Obamas election? Hmmmmmmmmmmm he may be on to something
Has Nancy Pe-kno-ke-losi called anyone Nazi today LMAO

“The knee jerk defense of Rush in any circumstance and your attacking groups like the ADL says otherwise.
Then again maybe its just a feeling onn your part that bigots need to stick up for each other.”
Criticising ADL for being one sides in their criticism is a valid statement to point out their partisanship. Now that you’ve called me a biggot, I’m done responding to your posts.

Barack Obama on 9/17/08:
“I want you to argue with them and get in their face,”
But what’s sauce for The One apparently ain’t sauce for the rest of us.

Those that agree with Obamacare are grassroot, patriotic, levelheaded American citizens.
Those that disagree are unAmerican, violent, racist, Nazi mobsters.

Some reform is needed. Why not have a panel of repsected experts (in the various fields of healthcare) analyze the problems? The house bill doesn’t takle effect until 2013; so what’s the rush?

I find it interesting that the Dems have so much frothing hatred for the very tactics that got there candidate elected.
First, if anyone had any intellect at all they would not be so quick to dismiss these protestors. Organized or not you can’t force someone to protest unless there are a group who have a grievance to begin with. Being organized does not diminish the fact that these are American citizens exercising their FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS. There is nothing more patriotic.
Second, if it were just the protests then how do you explain away the plummeting support for this in the Polls? The two together paint a very convincing argument that these are constituents that are frustrated at being marginalized. Is it any wonder that someone who is not being heard might get upset and yell? Hmmm, unique concept.
The Dems seem out of touch with reality and are walking a dangerous path in marginalizing and attacking the people they represent. If it continues and this bill passes despite the bipartisan opposition then 2010 could usher in a whole new kind of “Shock and Awe” at the polls.
Shawn
The American Conservative Party
P.S. If people researched this stuff on the Internet instead of relying on the puppet media they might have read a story by the AP(hardly conservative) that shows Dems have supressed every alternative piece of Health Care legislation the Republicans have tried to bring to the floor.

larry. Who gave you your talking points?

Take out a “low interest loan” to pay for medical care? Are you kidding? That’s what medical insurance is for. The problem is middle and lower income families can’t afford the insurance, sometimes even if the company they work for has coverage. And then there’s the corruption and obscene profits of the insurance companies. Who’s going to regulate that? The same fear and doom and gloom tactics used to describe our need to go to war are one and the same in the health care debate. We have become a selfish intolerant society.It doesn’t take a catastrophic illness to bankrupt a family.

“Criticising ADL for being one sides in their criticism is a valid statement to point out their partisanship.”
Except the ADL was very critical of MoveOn for comparing Bush and Hitler so your partisanship claim falls on its face.
You knee jerk defended Rush Limbaugh and attacked the ADL.

Jake…… this is Un-American. Americans do not solve issues in this manner. Name calling, bullying, screaming, denying others free speech Is Not American. We learned how to disagree in Kindergarten. Remember.

“So if anyone is behaving like Nazis, it the government with their shameless acts of oppressing (and esp lately, sending union thugs to rough up old people and those in wheelchairs).”…… Why can’t you guys stop your exaggerating?

Health care reform is needed, otherwise, no one will be able to buy groceries – they will only be able to make their health insurance payment.
The current proposal may need some refining, but it’s ridiculous what’s been going on in these town hall meetings.
Change is not easy but it’s not impossible.

I recall a group of people that lost a certain vote in California. When they protested, they usually intimidated people or got violent, yet no Democrat ever said anything. But know when people voice an opinion that they don’t like, well, not that’s different.

“Health care reform is needed, otherwise, no one will be able to buy groceries – they will only be able to make their health insurance payment.”
Thats a bit of an exaggeration. Though health care insurance won’t go down unless costs of providing care go down, and this bill doesn’t address health care provider costs, only costs to patients which is at the bottom of the cost chain.

“Jon, do your own research on Medicare Plan D.” – That’s all I needed to hear – What you were talking about.
“It was in the press when it went down and evidently you tuned out, because if you had not you’d see how so many of you sound like hypocrites now.”
More of your name calling. You just cannot resist, can you?
“It’s the largest entitlement expansion in my lifetime and I’m 50. As far as your ridiculous notion that this strips me of my rights? Well, the longer this is allowed to continue the longer fewer of us will even have insurance.”
I’m also 50 and I have a father who, if under the currently proposed scheme, will be marginalized and his medications (anti-seizure – stroke patient) will likely be held back and we’ll be forced to watch him die. We have been told as much by Obama’s own videos and by those informed doctors who are informed about the intentions of this administration.
To me this is a personal life and death issue and I face it daily in my house. So don’t lecture me. I’m dealing with the reality right now and I distrust any government intervention at all. If you were to see the sheer terror our vets (my father being one of them) are in over this entire medical debacle, you would be shocked.
Actually I’m well off and covered. But even I get we’re a lay off or retirement away from getting the screws put to us. The “end of life decision” thing is again pure spin and it shows your ignorance.”
More name calling. Please… If you want to converse, stop with the dedicated spin to insult me. As for end of life decisions, I cite the following:
— The provision, tucked deep within the House bill, would provide Medicare coverage for an end-of-life consultation every five years, and more frequent sessions if a person is suffering a life-threatening disease.
Health providers would be required to explain to seniors the end-of-life services available, including “palliative care and hospice.”
“This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law,” House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, R-Mich. said in a statement last month.—
The trouble with this is that once you start the mandatory “explanation”, this does have all the signs of a slippery slope associated with it. This is my main beef with this “helpful” nanny-state idea.
“If you wish to argue this on merits? I’m up for it. It’s when people don’t know their facts that it drives me up a wall. And sure, the dems are hitting back trying to paint you guys. And I say it’s about time. Because for the last few years your party appears to be getting about as rude and obnoxious as it can get.”
I don’t disagree with you. The problem is that both sides have been equally divisive and the sheer elitism one sees in video and radio broadcasts from the Democrats does not help their cause any, does it. And to be blunt, my party deserved it’s loss in November on the basis you speak of. We needed to be humbled and we have been. So do understand this lifetime Republican may see more than you think he does.
“Trust me – the worst behavior is off the right. The other side may be liberal – but they tend to know their facts.”
I respectfully disagree. Considering the outright lies that have surfaced from the fiscal debacle and stimulus packages, I’m convinced that the real problem is the lack of checks and balances to keep the system true and in a self-corrective mode. Power unchecked is power abused. Consider that. Again, a respectful reply.
“And they don’t spend their lives demonizing half of the country like the side of smug does. Your party is imploding and I’m not sure I can ever vote republican again at this rate.”
Wrong. My party HAS imploded and is now finding it’s voice again. There is nothing smug here in this voice. My concerns are heartfelt and out of concern for the direction of the country. The trouble is that some believe it is dead. Far from it.
I do think reform of health care in the form of cost-controls is the right answer, but not a nanny-state single payer system. That will happen with bipartisan support but to just rush to social re-engineering and tossing out existing systems while demonizing anyone who calls the efforts into question? I think we are being good Americans to ask questions and demand more of our leaders.

@Larry: Shouting people down is not arguing. “Free speech” ends where you suppress the free speech of others. And Obama isn’t asking anyone to snitch–which would be silly, since these events are all video’d anyway. He’s asking people to report incidents and statements, not individuals. That’s so his team can respond to all the disinformation that’s being pumped out by the backers of the disruptions, which are corporate-funded lobbying groups staffed by veteran political operatives.
As it happens I’m critical of the current draft plan from the other side: I favor single-payer national health insurance. I grew up with it, in the UK. It worked fine. “Bureaucrats” did *not* come between me and my care providers–as they have done several times in the private plans I’ve been in over here. Right now my cousin is being treated in the UK for recurrent cancer, with procedures that no private plan would cover close to 100% of here. He’s getting that care free, like any other British citizen. I’m sorry, but you Obama-haters simply don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re being manipulated by masters of the game. Whereas I’m talking from experience. What’s more, I’ve read the damn draft bill. It doesn’t say any of the stuff your leaders claim it does. So sure, go to town hall meetings, and question and argue. That’s your right. But don’t act like thugs and suppress discussion.

These people weren’t exercising their rights. They were there to disrupt and agitate. What about the rights of the other people in the meeting? Those that were there to listen, learn, discuss and question? If someone acted like that in any other public place they would be hauled off in cuffs. Or sent to detention.

SEIU Local 2001 memo, issued this week in preparation for Rep. Jim Himes’ town hall in Stamford, Conn.
“Action: Opponents of reform are organizing counter-demonstrators to speak at this and several congressional town halls on the issue to defend the status quo. It is critical that our members with real, personal stories about the need for access to quality, affordable care come out in strong numbers to drown out their voices.”

@Adam, what is the Tax Rate in the UK?

When was the last time you visited a Doctor’s office….. honey please…. before Any Surgery in the U.S., you are automatic given these papers to sign or not to sign. I know, you never took the time to read them, right? So please stop yelling and taking a “powerless” party word for you well-being…. they just want their power back…… do you really think they give one Hoot about you? No, just the money bags in the Healthcare Industry that will be forced to stop Robbing the American people…..the right, with all their right to life should practice what they preach. Soooo hypocritical. Every person in America has a right to Affordable Healthcare… do you know of anyone that doesn’t want to live? Oh, by the way, what you wish for someone else, you wish it on yourself.

“….medical insurance should not be a profit inducing business. Well, no insurance should be.”
Posted by: Bea | Aug 10, 2009 3:41:56 PM
Food is at least as essential as health care. Therefore, production and distribution of food should not be profit inducing business either.
In that case, we better collectivize agriculture right now, Comrade!

As life and death decisions are turned over to legislators, politics are becoming very personal and very real again for the first time in a long time… Not since the draft, not since Roe v Wade, not since civil rights.
Moneywatch: Billionaire and “One Worlder” George Soros is tossing in $5 million to help push this poison pill health care through Congress.
Moneywatch II: The drug industry is spending $150 million on television commercials supporting President Obama’s “blue pill” health care.
Moneywatch III: So far in 2009, the Union’s PACs have dispensed $11 million (92% to Democrats, that’s $10,120,000 to Democrats) to encourage lawmakers to overhaul health care and ease the ability of unions to organize. And that doesn’t include the cost of those snazzy SEIU purple people beater shirts.
Moneywathc IV: What is going on between the White House and the Insurance Industry? Why hasn’t there been a visible campaign (the REAL Harry and Louise) against the White House proposal by the insurance companies? Why are they keeping so quiet. (Anyone who thinks the town hall protesters were sent from the insurance companies is willfully suspending reality. These are people who do not want to become Soylent Green.}

I don’t get it. The extremists Republican right-wingers destroyed our economy, launched a right-wing Christian Crusader war in Iraq, use lying, smear, sabotage tactics, subvert the Constitution, etc, etc, etc,etc,etc – and they are the victims???????? Well, guess being the “victim” is part of the plan!

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
Keep my existing police? Sure, as long as I keep my job. The way this law is written, all new hires will HAVE to take the so called ‘public option’ because insurance companies will be prohibited from taking new customers!
When it comes to lies and disinformation, liberals win hands down.

I have posted this section along with other sections-VERBATIM- yet the liberals try to spin it however they sit fit, although unsuccessfully I might add they still try!
At least you are one of a few of us who are posting the actual bills and proving how the government intends to TAKE OVER and RUN health care!
========================================
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
Keep my existing police? Sure, as long as I keep my job. The way this law is written, all new hires will HAVE to take the so called ‘public option’ because insurance companies will be prohibited from taking new customers!
When it comes to lies and disinformation, liberals win hands down.
Posted by: akcoyote | Aug 10, 2009 4:13:39 PM

Those of us who oppose government taker over of healthcare realize that these 1000 or so pages are merely the tip of the iceberg.
We have no clue as to the details or mechanization of implementation. The lines that we have difficulty with as far as pervasiveness may be far more so when interpreted by the myriad of czars, commissions, committees and whomever.
Also realize that if it becomes law it can be revised at will just as IRS codes are. At best the only thing we might ever see would be comments published in the congressional record.
If you have ever attempted to oppose or alter something you read in the congressional record you will know just how hopeless that cause might be.
Now is the only time to protest, and it is working. We are getting under their skin, Obama has activated his OFA to hit the streets and Pelosi is trying to demonize the opposition.
Strange that flag burning is acceptable but opinions opposing Pelosi are “un-American.

I would like to post two comments from Jake Tapper on Twitter:
1. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect Members of Congress to read the legislation they vote upon — especially a bill like health care reform
(30 minutes ago from web )
2. it’s also reasonable to expect opponents of legislation to cite specific FACTS in any bill they object to
(19 minutes ago from web; sorry, jt, I corrected your spelling))
I think that is reasonable to expect the same from people arguing in favor of it, as well. If more of the discussion on this blog were fact-based, there would be a whole lot less crazy on all sides! I do wish that Jake would chime in on the discussion now and then; it might help.

“Every person in America has a right to Affordable Healthcare… do you know of anyone that doesn’t want to live?”
————————————–
Exactly where are those words (“right to affordable healthcare”) written into ANY law in this country? (some states have made insurance mandatory – take a good long look at how well that has worked out….i.e. Massachusetts, Hawaii…etc)
Exactly what court has upheld that “law” ?
Every moron who makes that stupid claim needs to answer these three questions FIRST.
Why do you not have a right to water?
(you have access to it, but you HAVE to PAY for it!)
Why do you not have a right to food? (Again, you have access to it, but you HAVE to PAY for it!)
Why do you not have a right written into a law to have shelter?
(Duh, you guessed….you have access to it, but you HAVE to PAY for it!)
Why are all you whining crying liberals so cranked about this issue, yet after decades of spending trillions of dollars on other “social” issues such as poverty, we STILL have these problems?
People still live in the streets, people still go hungry. Kids still drop out of school (despite efforts from both sides of the political spectrum)
WHY? We have heard govt promises on these issues ALL the time. Name one politician who doesn’t claim to put education right up front whenever he speaks during an election cycle.
Yet, we still have huge numbers of 6th graders who cant even do fundamental 3rd grade math facts! But hell, lets just spend more & more & more money!
There is nothing in the HR3200 bill or any of its derivatives that is any different from any other promise that has come from the gov’t on a big issue in the past 40+ years.

Un-American – Here’s a hint on that word “elitist.” This one makes me giggle. So, some “elitists” have convinced the people of their party to call those people of that other party “elitists.” Shucks. They suckered you. I still wanna know why the republicans weren’t socialists/fascists/commie when they did the pill bill.

Posted by: Mike_C | Aug 10, 2009 4:12:16 PM Don’t bother wasting your breath, logic and business is way over their head. Medicare already doesn’t pay for the cost of services, but somebody does and that is why they never notice less in service. When insurance isn’t around to pick up the real tab then we’ll see just how much the govt. money tree grows is willing to fork over to dispense the kind of care people are used to.
The govt. has a bottom line too and it’s called ‘your pocket’ and because of this administration your pocket is empty.

It clearly reads that if you do NOT have APPROPRIATE health insurance coverage, which means coverage the government approves off, they will tax you 2.5% of your ANNUAL gross income…there is no other way to read this Ryan, but go ahead and do your best to sping it sweetie…….
Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLEHEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
‘‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed
under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for suchtaxable year.
‘‘PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES.—
The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph (1)) as—‘‘(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bearsto‘‘(B) the entire taxable year.

Remember when the people protest Bush at his Texas ranch on IRAQ war.
Now people protest again in town hall meeting about health care.
You go figure the reation of Bush and Obama toward these protestor.
When people raise up and spoken out their concern then they will be label with a negative name.
Only the blind, deaf government can spin it around for their own good political purpose.
I admire these protestorbecause their spend their own time, money to fight back a dump government.

I don’t know what the answeris, but what I do know is NO AMERICAN should have to die b/c they have NO health insurance! And for you dolts who don’t believe it’s happening…do your home work! It happened to a friend of mine who had an heart attack at 40. He had just started his own business and could not yet afford health careinsurance, He was left to die because he could not afford the surgery needed to save his life. He died 2 years ago. That should NEVER happen in America!

These politicians are so out of touch that they have no idea what the needs of their constituents are. “Dissent is Patriotic” – Hillary Clinton

Shouting so that no one can hear or speak, much less discuss, is not dissent.

All the name calling, shouting and disruptions at these meetings reminds me of the screams of ‘terrorist’ and ‘traitor’ yelled at Republican rallies during the election.
Dangerous, inflamatory, hysterical and not to be condoned in any way.
Same with the hate postings on here.

Posted by: rebelle | Aug 10, 2009 5:01:32 PM Nobody ever said that, people are against being forced into a govt. run system when they are happy with their health insurance, I have never heard anyone say they are against insuring the uninsured, there is a dispute about how many uninsured there are and whether this count includes illegal immigrants. Most people I know are happy to pay a little more to help the uninsured, that is not what this is about.

KMDay
You are misreading that section ” a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of” means 2.5% of the income over your modified adjusted gross income of 250,000, not the first 250,000. We are talking about a very small number of people, and the amount is different in the incomplete Senate bill.
This is called the individual mandate, and it is a legitimate controversy. The other option is the employer mandate — requiring employers to provide insurance. Which makes more sense?
Posted by: Joyomama | Aug 10, 2009 5:01:37 PM
========================================
Joy—my point was that if you do not have an approve health care plan, which means it has to be one the government approves of.
That in itself if the government telling us what type of insurance we are allowed to have. If it is not, then they need to be more clear.

Send these dissenting unAmericans to Siberia with the rest of the dissenters.

“There was ZERO violence in these town hall meetings until ACORN and the UNIONS came out”
We’ve all seen that video tape of the proported ‘violence’ and this has been again intentionally blown up by the irresponsible right wing into something it is not.
The right wing uses hysterical language and lies to distort the reality of the situation.
Pretty sleazy tactics.
I agree with bobfillon…
“All the name calling, shouting and disruptions at these meetings reminds me of the screams of ‘terrorist’ and ‘traitor’ yelled at Republican rallies during the election.
“Dangerous, inflamatory, hysterical and not to be condoned in any way.
“Same with the hate postings on here.”

Ferrari5858
The problem is that when a family gets brought into the ER bleeding and unconscious from a car accident, no ethical doctor would check for proof of citizenship, much less an insurance card. So we pay for the undocumented, as it is. Reducing the numbers of undocumented people is an immigration question, not a health care question. And I believe that immigration reform is also on the agenda, but I am glad he’s tackling the economy and health care first.

Ok my question is WHO reviewed and approved that OP-ED using the word un-American? Was it the same person who authorized the clueless Air Force 1 “fly-over” that scared Manhattan?
Cleanup in aisle 1600

“There was ZERO violence in these town hall meetings until ACORN and the UNIONS came out”
We’ve all seen that video tape of the proported ‘violence’ and this has been again intentionally blown up by the irresponsible right wing into something it is not.
The right wing uses hysterical language and lies to distort the reality of the situation.
Pretty sleazy tactics.
I agree with bobfillon…
“All the name calling, shouting and disruptions at these meetings reminds me of the screams of ‘terrorist’ and ‘traitor’ yelled at Republican rallies during the election.
“Dangerous, inflamatory, hysterical and not to be condoned in any way.
“Same with the hate postings on here.”
Posted by: Jeff C | Aug 10, 2009 5:26:10 PM
=======================================
I am curious to know what you are labeling as hate posting. If one does not agree with Obama that makes them racist, is that where you are going with this because if so, North Korea is looking for a few good followers.
Itis not racist to disagree or even protest the President and his policies beause if it is, then how many millions were racist for protesting and disagreeing with Bush?
You cannot have it both ways-most americans will not be duped into the double standards idealogy of this administration.
You mention only one violent incident when in fact there have been a few, but you want to play down that one Union beating as an isolated incident and play up the ONE swastika with a line through it as those who oppose the governments take over as some how criminal.
Come one, again yuo cannot have an administration who rules on double standards and hypocrisy-people will NOT buy into it.

Republicans have always been for small government and less spending (only they do the opposite when they are in power). Funny how they forget that when they want a war or cut taxes and there is not enough money to cover items we need. So scream and yell, you still lost the election and have to wait for the next election in 4, or hopefully 8 years to get “Your America Back,” just like I had to wait, only I didn’t freak out! In 4 or 8 years we should be able to get health care for all Americans.

KMDay
I agree with some of what you said, although I am not sure you are right about the time line with regard to violence. It was only a matter of time, in that climate, before someone got hurt. That’s where shouting people down tends to end.
When you say “NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE” do you mean turning Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans’ and Military health care over to the private sector? Wouldn’t that create even more hardship?

” am curious to know what you are labeling as hate posting. If one does not agree with Obama that makes them racist, is that where you are going with this because if so, North Korea is looking for a few good followers.”
Where did Jeff C mention racists?
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 10, 2009 5:35:21 PM
======================================
Explain hate posts to me then, please.

“Ryan, in opposition to you on many occasions I have posted the tax portion VERBATIM and you have NEVER once answered it. Where the government will tak your GROSS annual income 2.5% if you DO NOT Have Government APPROVED health insurance.”
Sigh…..that is excess over $250K, genius.
But I guess posting the whole section is mark of improvement even if your analysis is completely wrong.
Posted by: Ryan C | Aug 10, 2009 5:28:18 PM
=======================================
how is it wrong? The bill, as it reads today clearly states “Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage”…not employers, INDIVIDUALS……meaning if the INDIVIDUAL does not have acceptable health care coverage. Why should the government decide what type of health care coverage we carry?
Are you purposley missing he point? this will not be a government run health care system and they are not going to tell you what to do, but it clearly states that if the individual does NOT have acceptable health care coverage.
My health care coverage choices is NONE of and should not be their business.

These disrupters have my utmost contempt. They are behaving like thugs. They have no legitimate reason to be at those meetings other than silencing those who disagree with their agenda.
Posted by: leftyintexas | Aug 10, 2009 5:30:10 PM
=======================================
nice! and when the Unions and ACORN and Greenpeace and those who opposed Bush and his policies protest/protested, burned cars, flags, destroy store front windows, tip cars over—-that is American and peace demonstration right?
i love the liberals motto: “Whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander” ……if you disagree with Obama and his corrupt administration you are racist…..if you protest against the BLATANTLY obvious corrupt congress you are Un American……
Outstanding! Please note my OBVIOUS sarcasm!

Wingnuts Law: The key to sucess is sincerity. Once you have faked that, you have got it made.

People are asking some very good questions that Pelosi and the top dems do not wnat to answer. the most extreme elements of the Democrats are only going to be happy until we all have a single payer system.
The UK and French government health plans so widly admired are runnign huge deficits and are a detrement to their economies.
Thinking the public plan will be cheaper and will help reduce costs is pure fantasy. until you can control medicare/medicaid, you cannot control health costs.
furthermore, to say if you like your current plan, you get to keep it is hogwash. Its dependent upon your employer keeping it. If they decide the payroll tax is cheaper, they will terminate their plan and allow you to go find your own coverage. That is not choice to me.
This plan makes government that is already out of control and too big, spending too much TOO BIG still.
It does nothing to address the costs behind health care.

KMDay
And when have I ever said it was OK for anyone to be disruptive? Are you saying that two wrongs make a right?
Posted by: Joyomama | Aug 10, 2009 6:05:42 PM
=======================================
Absolutly not! My only point is the hypcorisy and double standards-not that it is okay to do it also.

KMDay
I agree with some of what you said, although I am not sure you are right about the time line with regard to violence. It was only a matter of time, in that climate, before someone got hurt. That’s where shouting people down tends to end.
When you say “NO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE” do you mean turning Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans’ and Military health care over to the private sector? Wouldn’t that create even more hardship?
========================================
No, these programs have already been implemented and they are proven to be broken, full of scandals and fraud.
These need to be left alone because they have been in place, but they need to be fixed.
This is the point of most of those who do NOT want the government intrustion to the extent of what they are trying to do.
They cannot properly run the entities you have mentioned above and have failed at fixing them. Why on earth should anyone believe they can run the entire country’s health care when they cannot run those properly?

If anyone has bothered to read the legislation you will quickly learn the bill is designed to allow the Federal Government complete and total control of health care, complete access to your bank account info, your personal health info and obviously allows for the government to dictate who can be treated for what. Not to mention mandatory and the penalization of private companies and citizens who do not purchase it.
COMPLETE AND UTTER SOCIALISM BUT WORSE! I’D LIKE TO KNOW WHEN LIBERTY AND FREEDOM BECAME SO “YESTERDAY”
IF OUR CURRENT HEALTH PLAN IS SO BAD WHY DO OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS GET TO KEEP THAT PLAN WHILE THE PLEBS GET AN ASPIRIN FOR A HEART ATTACK????? hmmmm??

Vote all the trash out of office all of them.

Wow, Clark, that’s a tall order!
I am willing to bet that many people here have their own horror stories. Try my mom, who needed heart surgery when she was 64 1/5 and ended up paying half of her life savings because the insurance she was paying refused to pay for a big chunk of her bill. One helpful person actually said “too bad you couldn’t wait until you were 65″.
Then there’s my son, who is 22 and has chronic illness that requires monitoring and has landed him in the hospital once already. When he graduates from college, we can continue him on our insurance if we are paying 50% of his support or we can sign him up for a COBRA plan at $800/month.
Time did a very good Health care issue a couple of months ago that had some good charts and tables that made things clearer, and I would guess that somewhere on this site you can find ABC’s special report on Health Care, as well.

If you missed the ABC special report on health care, it’s on this page:
Look for “Prescription for America”, in the middle of the page

To: ClarkOHrepub…who posted…
Honest thought…Can someone please show me the “list” of healthcare problems everyone claims is out there?
I really appreciate this mature approach that you have displayed with the way you posed this question.
I am a single Mom who has always gotten my insurance through my employer. From 2002 to 2007 I changed jobs 3 times, I did not seek these jobs, they came to me through previous customers and acquaintances, each time offering me more money… As a single Mom, I have to go where the money is. So there goes pre-existing conditions, which with health care reform would prohibit insurers from refusing coverage because of any existing medical history.
I have noticed during these at least 5 years, my employers would shop around and change to find the least expensive insurance plans costing more with less coverage and bigger deductibles…
These are all consumer protections that would be covered with Health insurance reform.
Plus, Health care reform would extend coverage for young adults to age 26,
I could have extended health insurance coverage for my daughter as she put herself through college…
I work with many self-employed that cannot afford health insurance so they do without… I work also with small business owners who can no long afford to cover their employees…
so yeas the current system is unsustainable but, some don’t want to hear this because they have theirs and they really don’t care about anybody else not really realizing that they could be anybody else, in a heart beat…
People have been dropped by their insurers when they have become ill.
And if insurance premiums continue as they have, many will find that they can no afford what they insurance they have…
Thank you for you reasonable attitude and question…

Wow stop yelling – didn’t your momma teach you any better?

I have to yell…liberals are like my wife…doesn’t listen unless I yell!
Anybody interested should go to CBS.com and on the lead page..under politics “What Will Health Care Reform Cost You” ! It will explain what the plan is for medicare and medicaid! It also will tell you just how dangerous this plan is! Maybe mainstream media if finally getting…maybe they realize THEY would have to be on the same plan and they don’t like it either!!

The Republicans spent years calling anyone who opposed Bush’s war in Iraq unpatriotic. It was wrong then and this is wrong now. I guess neither party believes in freedom of speech anymore.

Honest debate (the democratic process) is American. Yelling and acting like a jackass in order to shut other people up and restrict debate is non-democratic and therefore un-American.
Pretty simple. If you have something to say, say it. But being angry doesn’t give inherently you a license to drown out other voices of opinion.

Why Nancy Pelosi so many times called American Citizens who has opposite opinions against Obama Un-American under the Obama rather than George Bush ? She has leaded DEMOCRATIC Party.

Ed,
Does this mean that you believe, contrary to all the evidence, that President Obama was not born in Hawaii? That really hurts your credibility on other issues!

The health care bill would be easier to accept if all US citizens (including Congress, the Senate and the President)would have the same plan. As it stands now, commoners would get the government plan, those that write the rules (Congress, Senate and the President) get excellent coverage in a private health care plan that is unavailable to the rest of us. How fair is that?

tired of the hoopla
The politicians you name don’t have special insurance. Some are on Medicare (those who are eligible) with private supplemental. Those who are veterans have the VA. The rest have access to the same plan choices as other federal workers. If there’s a public option in the new plan, they would have that option. I don’t think anyone should be forced to take the public option, do you? And since no one will be forced to take that option until the existing bills, I don’t see a reason to limit the choice of any one class of citizen.
You wouldn’t like that if it were done to you, I’m sure!

I don’t see that in the bill. If USPS, UPS and Fedex can coexist, and public and private college, why not public and private insurance? I am not being naive. I think you — or someone you listen to — is trying to scare us. I think the insurance companies are afraid to see the end of the gravy train!

Joymama, sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. I must first confess that I am lucky enough to have a very good insurance company, so our perceptions of whether insurance companies care about patient care are very different. I have had a couple of heart procedures, and was pleasantly surprised by the amount of rehab and aftercare covered by my standard policy. My insurance company (not KP but another of the really biggies) has a 24-hour hotline to nurses to answer questions about my heart condition, and they offer the same service for other chronic diseases.
You and I will have to agree to disagree about whether the majority of the public wants a public option. Different polls phrase the question differently and get different results. Sorry, but I do not think President Obama was elected because his health care plan contained a public option. I think he was elected because he wasn’t George Bush (funny, neither was John McCain) and because people generally wanted change.
My objections to a public option? First, it creates an uneven playing field that will inevitably crowd out private insurance. The president speaks of “competing” with private insurance to drive their costs down, but a government-run entity does not compete on a level playing field with a for-profit public entity. Also, if competition from a government-run program was the key to keeping the system we have but improving it by driving costs lower, why hasn’t Medicare and Medicaid had that effect?
In addition, there is already competition between the various private insurance companies. Has this led to lower costs and all those other benefits the president claims for his competitive public option scenario? No? Why not?
I object to a public option because I see it as the camel’s nose under the tent toward a single-payer system, which I definitely do not want.
I also object to a public option because that will be one more expensive, bloated, uncontrollable government program we will have to pay for in coming years. It is unnecessary because good insurance reform could focus on increased access to private insurance instead.
I object to a public option because many people will wind up in the plan even though it is not their preference. Private individual coverage will be phased out; many businesses will drop coverage to save money, knowing the public option is available to their employees; and there is no incentive for the legislators to include mechanisms to improve access to private insurance in any plan that includes a public option, which would then compete with those private insurance companies.
My preference is reform that increases access to quality affordable private insurance to the currently uninsured. I also prefer incremental changes to the system to reduce costs and improve coverage for those who currently have insurance— tort reform to drive down defensive doctoring, portability of coverage, larger pools (or everyone in one big pool), improvements in such issues as pre-existing conditions and annual caps. Vast improvements can be made without resorting to the public option.
I am sure I could come up with plenty of other reasons I am not in favor of the public option, but it’s past my bedtime, so it will have to wait.

“My preference is reform that increases access to quality affordable private insurance to the currently uninsured. I also prefer incremental changes to the system to reduce costs and improve coverage for those who currently have insurance–”
I sounds nice but who is going to do it? As Dean pointed out the Democrats think their plan will work, the Republicans in all the years they had control never made any kind of serious move to address these issues and we have no reason to believe they ever will do anything no matter how nice their ideas might sound.

If our president could pass the same screening that I did to be a pilot in SAC, I would be happy.
Only fools will go for this so called health care bill. I believe that any person that promises government help to anyone should be in=eligable to hold public office.

The following is a copy from a memo perpetrated from the group “Freedom works”.
A Political Action Memo
We here in Fairfield County Connecticut conducted an action at Congressman Jim Hime’s Town Hall meeting in May 2009. We believe there are some best practices which emberged from the event and our experience, which could be useful to activists in just about any district where their Congressperson has supported the socialist agenda of the Democrat leadership in Washington.
…
– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”
– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”
– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

Sure they are. The dtopic has to be clarified here. There are legimite concerns that should be dicsussed but taking a serious probem and turning it into disruption and vandalism constitute an act of treason to this country.

#1..Nancy Pelosi? She is not going to support anything that does’nt lead to her own enrichment. She has about as much credibility as Chris Dodd who has zero. I am a 60 year old, lifelong, “die hard” Republican and I’ve never missed voting in a general election. I have helped elect/re-elect as many Democrats and Independents as I have Republicans. Sometimes it was because they had a better idea and sometimes I was simply too afraid of my own party’s candidate.

and this town hall crap is nothing but an attempt at mob rule.

#2..We have 435 representatives in the House and another 100 in the Senate. If you disqualify all the ones that accept direct contributions from the health care industry, lobbyist and political action committees, then have an attempt at legislation, we might get somewhere. Our legislature has given away any means of controlling cost. Now “they” want to build a new program based on what we no longer have. This really sucks.

A lot of the disrupters I’ve seen at these town hall meetings are over fifty years old. I’d be be willing to bet that most of them have poor or no insurance coverage and yet they come to these meetings with the intent to see that good and affordable insurance coverage is denied to themselves. It makes no sense whatsoever. These people are so conservative that their beliefs have clouded their common sense and good judgment. As the President has stated many times before, if you have an insurance you are happy with, then keep it. No one is going to take it away from you. But as for the rest of us, stop trying to prevent us from getting good health care. We all know the Repub. party is behind all the lies and rumors concerning the health care plan put forth by the Democrats. When is the last time the Repubs ever anything positive for this country?…Never.

I guess this is what happens when people feel they’re government is ‘zooming’ them.

I see, public disruptions are Un-American? That’s interesting….how did things like the American Revolution ever begin without “disruptions”?
This is a great ploy to try to hide what is really happening here. If anyone thinks this is really a good health care plan – read the details!
Instead of “may God help us!” I say, may we continue to help ourselves and may we continue to stand up for and fight against that which is wrong and destructive to our country.

Woody, you explained the fine print on qualifying plans very well. Thanks!
Joyomama, you suggest that having public and private insurance coexisting is equivalent to public and private colleges coexisting, but that’s not quite so.
Yes, the part of that analogy with which I agree is that the public institutions have government support, so the private institutions have to provide added value to set themselves apart from the cheaper public alternative. That’s a good thing.
But the difference is, the public universities do not set the rules by which the private universities operate.
The Harvard Board of Trustees does not get to create the regulations for the local community college. The public universities do not get to be referee, judge, owner, and opposing team simultaneously. Public health care coverage, in effect, would.
The public universities, while they receive funding from the states, have limits on the budgets. (believe me, I teach at one, so I know) A public health care program might have limits as well– but that would create an outcry about rationing and complaints, as does any attempt to rein in the existing public programs of SChip, Medicare, and Medicaid. So public insurance would not have the same constraints as public universities in terms of finance, and that would lead to a bigger problem with out-of-control spending on health care than we already have.

oops -their-

#7..Every citizen in this country deserves the absolute best healthcare available. We have the finest doctors, facilities, science and technology of anyplace in the world. But we can’t get it. Many people die because of the lack of it. This is really, really sad.

Un-American? People, some of whom remember FDR well, maybe with some wisdom to share, being put down by the government. These people young and old are the essence of our great country. Fight the tyrany, less government and less taxes, less spending, free markets.

This isn’t about health care, choice, a “public” option, fiscal responsibility, or even perceived government intervention. It is about Republicans and their profitable relationship with the insurance industry, who stands to lose billions if forced to actually compete for American’s health dollars. Ask anyone whose insurance was canceled because they have reached their max payout or canceled because some major illness was deemed “pre-existing”. Every day, the insurance industry balances your health care against profits. Ultimately, at the end of the day, which, do you think, carries more weight for them?

if you like your insurance you can keep it? if you like your doctor you can stay with him. no lobbyist will work in my admin. no taxes on 95% of working americans.close gitmo. get out of iraq and afgan. what do all these have in common? they are all lies..95% of working americans dont pay income taxes,only about 50% do.gitmo still open ,troops still in those countries.oh and if you like your ins. and doc. thats fine as long as your ins. policy doesnt change.i.e single and get married.oops you must use the gov.plan..married and have a baby oops gotta use the gov.plan, rates go up oops gotta use the gov. plan…your employer thinks it would save the company money by dropping their health plan because they know that the gov. plan is there so they drop it then you have to use the gov. plan its all in the there all you have to is read it.all these senators havent read it and proudly say so, thats because after they jam it down our throats then they can say oh i didnt know that was in there.just like with the stimulus that obama pushed thru they knew the aig bonus was in there(yes they admited they they knew it was there),but they rammed it thru.then sat back and complained about it.got the acorn people to protest in front of the peoples homes ,just like they have the union and acorn people getting involved with the town hall meetings to make the honest hard working people who provide for themselves,and dont want the welfare medicine. to look like a “mop” funny when dems protset they are just expressing their feelings and being patriotic when republicans do it they are a mop an un american.go figure

Without anything in writing we are being asked to buy a pig in a poke. what is said by them at the meetings is not what will be in the bill, have the bill first then see what we think.

Ray – fixing it would require “fixing” the insurance companies, who don’t want to be fixed because health insurance is very, very profitable. What do you think that the government can do to completely change the way the companies do business? Create a massive, expensive oversight commitee? Gee, that’s worked so well for the financial industry. I have great insurance now, but what happens when my company no longer pays for it? Or I have a catastrophic illness and I am no longer profitable to my provider, and they drop me. Lots of good folks spend the last months of their lives fighting with insurance companies just to get the final medical care they will ever need. The number one cause of bankruptcy in this country is out-of-control medical expenses. We do not have a system that a) works; or b) is sustainable. Pay to fix it now or pay a lot more later.

To all the posters here that DO NOT know or understand, all proposed legislation can be seen in it’s ENTIRETY on the Library of Congress website. This includes the proposed health care legislation, ( HR3200). You can read it “WORD-FOR WORD “. Please DO NOT listen to the uninformed Neanderthals that would have you believe that We don’t have an open government.

Obama keeps saying “if you like your healthcare, you’ll be able to keep it…” This is either intentional deception or incredible naivete. Millions of small businesses will take the first opportunity they get to dump their employees into any government plan that comes along so as to be out of the yearly negotiations and all the administrative hassle of offering health-insurance benefits. In that scenario, how will you be able to keep the same healthcare?

What is Un-American is asking Americans to rat out thier friends and neighbors who disagree with spending money that we don’t have to pay for a health care plan that won’t improve the system that we have.

Here is how to fix health care.
1. Tort reform. No P/S awards over $250K
2. Term limits on elected officials -No more that 2 terms.
3. Let congress pay thier own health care and provide for their own retirement plans.
4. No lobbying for Alcohol. tobacco, insurance, health care.
5. SEAL THE BORDERS AND SEND THE ILLEGALS HOME!
That is Government’s job. Don’t add beaureaucrats to an already stupid system.

Both parties have lost touch with the public and what it means to work in DC. They act like we work for them when it should be the other way around. Its time to vote them all out and start over.

UN-AMERICAN is a Congressman (Jason Altmire-D) that doesn’t have town meetings and could care less what the voters think.

when did it make you UNamerican to stand up and protest what you think is wrong with our elected officials and the way they vote? i always heard it was your right and your responsibilty to question our government. but now days if you disagree with our government you are called unamerican by pelosi and other people. well maybe some of these professional politicains need to be on this side of the fence and get in touch with what the people who elected them want and need or maybe pelosi has so much money maybe tax her and her family till they are not rich. or maybe these elected officials both rep.@dem. need to remember the reason they were elected and learn to work together and then and only then will they get any good work done to help the people

d- even those having town hall meetings don’t care what people think. I have written to both of my Senators & my Representative in the House. I gave them my opinion about the bill (that I do not like anything in it) and gave alternative suggestions. I got back a form letter thanking me for supporting them in supporting this. And then they wonder why people are angry.

In the recent town hall meeting,Pres. Obama appeared to have ‘performed’ better than other Dem. lawmakers facing their constituents, because he started by blaming the health insurance industries as the villains to people’s suffering (such as bankruptcy..). This tactic also tend to ‘justify’ the future government role as big brother to apply control of the health care business, that means BIG GOVERNMENT to decide how the money to be spent in the process to achieve the goal of universal health care, even if Obama has said the government has no intention to run the health business.

It’s high time for a Revolution. This notion of an American “Democracy” with no respect for the Constitution or rule of law has undermined our Republic.
It’s time to take it back – by force if necessary.

Republicans are looking for a breather. After the election defeat they are looking for an issue. There are forums inside American democracy to discuss about any issues. These kind of demonstrations will not help their cause.
Public health bill is a genuine issue for all Americans and we need a healthy discussion inside and outside the congress and Senate to have a good point of view.discussion inside and outside the congress and Senate to have a good point of view.

Hey Ralph, who do you think escalated the Vietnam War?….Your good buddy JFK & Johnson after him….Took Nixon to get us out of there…What’s the JD stand for? Just Dumb ?

Michael Birtel, How do you know that they would be paying a much smaller amount? You have insider info we don’t?….Plus, even if the premiums would be less, Obama’s top financial wizards have said tax increases cannot be ruled out. so guess what, we’d still be paying out more . I know Obama has repeatedly said that there would be tax increases on the middle class, but I don’t believe it.

Hey leftyintexas …You are right, no one will take our private insurance away from us. With a government plan, they wouldn’t have to. The employers would simply eliminate their plan & have their employees go with the Government plan & insurance companies would go under since their costs wouldn’t be subsidized by the taxpayers,& believe me, your taxes would go up , no matter what Obama says, in order to fund a government plan, thus making a government plan more costly than we are being le to believe. On another note, the Feds have yet to say what the premiums would cost us, so how do we know we would be saving money? For all those posters who may live in Canada or wherever else they have a single payer system, ask them how much of their income goes to taxes, a lot more than ours does & ours is bad enough.

Pelosi, attacking regular American citizens, is indeed showing her weakness and disadvantaged maturity level. It’s like criticizing the peasants for not agreeing with the serfs.
Furthermore, to say that discussing health debate correlated with euthanasia and nazi tactics as “over the top” is another weak argument. After all NOT ENOUGH people in nazi Germany questioned Hitler, Goebbels, or Hoerring. This is how they systematically institutionalized their atrocities.
History repeats itself. The citizens gave Hitler “unwavering faith” and either denied the atrocities or had such faith in him, that they assumed the nazis were acting for the greater good. Both attitudes were wrong, as we saw.
The Nazis were also socialists. The term nazi comes from the german abbreviation “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei” or National Socialist German Worker’s Party. In other words, socialist liberals rose to power in Nazi Germany.
Scratch the surface of a liberal, like Nancy Pelosi, and you’ve got a tyrant.

Michael B.
Prove it. With facts please.

Obama Lied where is yourm Troop withdraw from Iraq & Afganistan and now he and hillary want to put some in Columbia. He and the Democrates failled us with stimulus Plan then Blaimed Bush again and again yet they failed why beleive them with our health Care. Yes it needs fixed but not with another barrow another 3 Trillion to start and billions to run. Add it up Libbys you know it will cost more. Ask anyone who is in bussness when Gov is involved it costs 2-3 times more for gov. waste and red tape they create . Yes you know the figgures just barrow more. where are the jobs to pay anyway.

Dave M,
You have got the liberal talking points down pat don’t you?… Some of the reasons our heath insurance costs are so high is due to Trial Lawyers having the Dems in their back pocket. Astronomical payouts make sure that the insurance companies charge the rates they do. Plus the premiums the Doctors have to pay factors into this as well. Add to that the unneeded tests ordered by Doctors to ensure they won’t be sued for not having taken them, all play a part in this. Same goes to the illegal aliens using emergency rooms as Primary care facilities. I could go on but I’m unlikely to have an impact on your opinions as you are unlikely to change your mind with by some of the facts I have just given. Oh, by the way, oin all of the plans being considered, nothing addresses Tort reform, I wonder why?
Couple what I have said above with the fact that the CBO has said that the deficit will go up under the proposed plans & still won’t cover everyone & that the AARP doesn’t endorse the plan….What more do you need to realize this plan isn’t the answer…Oh that’s right, you’re a moveon.org hardcore Lib aren’t you?

Since this is such a fact and stat hungry crowd…
For consideration:
50 Million Uninsured in America
62% of U.S. Bankruptcies Involve Medical Bills
One in Five Americans Forced to Postpone Care
Employer-Based Coverage Below 60%
94% of Health Insurance Markets in U.S Now “Highly Concentrated” – almost monopolies.
114 million people, including 30 million children, visited emergency rooms in 2003, compared with 90 million visits a decade ago. In that same period, the number of U.S. hospitals decreased by 703, the number of emergency rooms decreased by 425, and the total number of hospital beds dropped by 198,000
Any reform opponents out there, if you can stop yelling for a moment, would you please share your thoughts and join the discussion to let us know how you address these health care problems directly, which means we don’t want to here about Tort Reform and Illegal Immigration… let’s focus people, please.):

Wow, seems some people forget that the govt is already running a couple different healthcare programs. You know them, MediCare, MedicAid, and let’s not forget the good ol’ VA plan. Now ask yourself how good any of these are! The first two are broken, and the VA plan is severely underfunded. And who is to blame? The same folks who are now saying we need to trust them yet again with another healthcare plan.