A Secret Cap and Trade Tax of $1,761 Per Family?

That’s a horrible headline…. and a poorly written story.
The news here is that the 1761$ is a lie.
That should be the headline. That should appear in your first paragraph. You ought to identify the liar up front, too.
Instead, you bury the facts at the end of the story… and broadcast the spin up front.

I agree with you MayBee.
But you know, it’s just hard to have a rational debate with someone who refuses to believe that Obama’s birth certificate is real.
Health care, for instance, I think we could have a civil, balanced debate on the issue. But once the activists got it into their heads that the best way to get their point across was to get angry, shout people down, and carry around guns… I think we missed that opportunity.
Maybe we can head back towards an honest direction… but this would require significant leadership on the part of the GOP. They need to muzzle emotional people like Michelle Bachmann, Joe Wilson, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin… and focus on presenting their ideas in a logical fashion.
The second thing they need to do is take a seat at the table when they are invited to do so. Too often, they throw up knee jerk opposition, and it doesn’t make sense.
For instance, Max Baucus’ health care bill is not the one I would prefer…. but I recognize that it is revenue neutral and that it relies on the private sector… and those things made it into the bill because Baucus worked with Republicans.
But, when Baucus announced it, not a single Republican would stand with him. Which says to me that the GOP has been negotiating in bad faith. And, now, we will end up with a bill that leans further to the left. And the Republicans have to own up to their complicity in this.
So, yes, honesty and civility would be welcomed. But it is very clearly to me that Obama has been incredibly gracious and civil… even when his detractors have been much less so.

gobot:But you know, it’s just hard to have a rational debate with someone who refuses to believe that Obama’s birth certificate is real.
======
Interesting take, gobot. So do you think that’s why the Treasury Department redacted the embarrassing numbers?

The fact of the matter is that we are heading towards 10$ per gallon gas…. maybe not during Obama’s term, but definitely in our lifetimes.
If we do not force industry to find more efficient means to power their growth… life in the United States is going to change quite radically.
1700$ is peanuts compared to what we will have to endure if we do not head these changes off quickly. So even if the made up 1700$ number were true, the status quo is not good enough.
If you let natural market forces, supply and demand, correct this trend… we are going to subject our citizens to a state of nature that most people will find unconscionable. It would be the equivalent of leaving national defense to individual gun owners… a nice idea in theory, but in practice, a blood bath.
But even Romney knows that he is acting in bad faith, here.

gobot:If you let natural market forces, supply and demand, correct this trend… we are going to subject our citizens to a state of nature that most people will find unconscionable. It would be the equivalent of leaving national defense to individual gun owners… a nice idea in theory, but in practice, a blood bath.
=================
Isn’t a better comparison the “bloodbath” we encountered as trains and ships figured out they couldn’t keep using coal to power their engines?

Probably higher than $1760..
But Obama will call it a scare tactic.
He won’t get Blue Dogs to agree to cap and TAX either.
Even the naive college kids are waking up to government intrusion by Big Brother.
Just starting out in life and faced with Obama’s massive deficit, taxes, and mandatory health care.

Isn’t a better comparison the “bloodbath” we encountered as trains and ships figured out they couldn’t keep using coal to power their engines?
The transition from coal to petroleum was relatively slow. The difference now is that you have rapidly growing economies competing for fewer and fewer energy resources. Coal did not vanish, it was simply replaced.
The world changes much too quickly these days… and the stakes are too high.
People might not like the idea of the government getting out in front of this… as it interferes with the “natural” ebb and flow of markets. But personally, I only care about free trade if it protects our society. Which, is another way of saying, I am not a free-trader. I am an American. And I want jobs and energy and security for Americans.
So, if Obama has to stick his fat hands into the free market… if he has to frustrate multi-national corporations…. I don’t care. I want my kids to have a good life… and that means the government can’t leave their future to the Bernie Madoffs and Enrons and Exxons…

Obama loses credibility almost everyday.
Ask Poland, Israel, Czech Republic and other loyal allies if they trust his word.
He stabs our allies in the back then turns around and calls Russia “paranoid”.
I’m beginning to think Obama is bi-polar.

Y’all should have voted for Ron Paul when you had the chance….
Instead, you pushed him into the corner and picked a handful of goofballs as your ticket.

Scott,
Incredibly gracious? If the president is endorsing/encouraging legislation that goes against every belief one has, but couples it with a “I welcome differing opinions” caveat, does that equal grace?
That’s absurd.
That’s like saying Pres. Bush was gracious when he welcomed Democratic support for his tax cuts. Dems fundamentally disagreed with those cuts, just as Republicans fundamentally disagree with Cap and Trade or Healthcare w/public option.
Just because a president feigns a willingness to incorporate bipartisan ideals into a bill, doesn’t make him civil and gracious. Pres. Obama knows, as Bush knew, that no one from the opposition party would have a chance to have a meaningful effect on the bill.
Simply welcoming a futile effort means nothing. Bush wasn’t given credit for it and neither should Obama.

robin – We overthrew Mossadeq in 1953, we helped to radicalize the Madrassas to counter the Soviets, we armed Bin Laden against the Soviets, Israel armed and trained Hamas against the Fatah, we armed Saddam against the Iranians. Sounds like things are coming full circle. I find this info more interesting for the American people. Seems like the Founding Fathers of this country knew what they were talking about. We should be a little more introspective. Oh and by the way terrorists are not making policy currently. Hopefully policy keeps the aforementioned events in mind.

I am not going to dispute any of the numbers on the amount each family will end up paying as that would be impossible to accurately determine as well as only being an average, some families will pay much more than others, and not necessarily based off of a higher income. The basic point of cap and trade is to punish producers and consumers of energy, which is just about every one who uses any electricity at all in their operations, or who buys from someone who does use any energy. The point is that this is a regressive tax which will disproportionately affect the poor of this country. Eventually the revenue from this tax will decrease to a point where the spending that was paid for with this tax will just add further to the national debt. The question is whether or not the change in behavior caused by this tax on energy will increase government revenues through growth of the economy or reduce the spending by the government, which is almost laughable. If the intent is to reduce carbon emissions in order to stop global warming, then according to even the most generous estimates, it will do very little to reduce global temps, and most likely actually do nothing to change global temps. This is a lousy scheme that will only accomplish putting more control of the economy into the hands of the government, and anyone who denies that this is the intent is naive.

Obama is simply not believable.
He said he didn’t know how much money ACORN was funded.
They were slated to receive $8billion in stimulus and Obama doesn’t know?
He is either lying or totally reckless with our money. Or maybe he just doesn’t care how much of our tax money goes to ACORN or Cap/Trade.
It’s not his money why should he care?

Why isn’t the headline for this article, “Mitt Romney WRONG about Figures for Cap and Trade” ? That was the very clear conclusion of the article.
Posted by: Lydia | Sep 20, 2009 3:01:22 PM
Lydia, good question. I find it interesting that Tapper went into all all kinds of contortions to hide the bottom line, and act like there’s equal blame on both sides of the aisle.

“this administration has created an atmosphere of uncertainty and has continually attacked corporations who strive to make a profit. no business is going to invest in this economy until these things stop”
___________________________________
Is that why the stock market is up about 25% since Obama took office?

“Is that why the stock market is up about 25% since Obama took office?”
LOL. So let’s play this out. Obama is responsible for a 25% gain on Wall Street, but then must also be responsible for 2.5 million jobs lost on Main Street since he took office.
So, according to Julie’s logic, Obama represents the party of corporate greed at the behest of the little guy that they claim to represent.
Nice argument.

“the stock market has nothing to do with a business investing in infrastructure and creating jobs”
___________________________________
Nonsense.

“We are no longer losing 700,000 jobs per month like we did under the last administration.”
No we’re just losing over hundreds of thousands per month. That’s a pretty shameless argument, and dishonest, when the President promised to be ADDING jobs after cramming a $787 billion “stimulus” bill through Congress. Saying we’re not LOSING as much as before isn’t really a defense when you’ve just taken a Federal Credit Card and have gone on a speeding spree.

“the President promised to be ADDING jobs”
___________________________________
He did no such thing. The President was careful and precise about his wording . . . it was saving or creating jobs – and we’re only 9 months into a 4-year program.
This was a world-wide economic crash that has devastated every western industrial nation. A possible recovery is slowly coming about – but there are still no guarantees. Perhaps it would be better to quite whining and griping and actually get about making your community a better place. The whining and the hatred adds nothing.

Greenhouse gas isn’t an air-pollution problem, it’s an energy-use problem.
Energy unlike other goods can’t be substituted or done without. It is rightly called the master resource, because it’s fundamental to everything in the economy. No nation has grown wealth on expensive energy.
Carbon dioxide results from combustion, apart from still-evolving technologies, none exists to remove it, the only way to reduce emissions is to burn less, which means less energy.
There may be no way to replace fossil fuels at any cost. The International Energy Agency noted in its recent annual energy forecast: “Even leaving aside any debate about the political feasibility of the 450 Policy Scenario, it is uncertain whether the scale of the transformation envisaged is even technically achievable, as the scenario assumes broad deployment of technologies that have not yet been proven. The technology shift, if achievable, would certainly be unprecedented in scale and speed of deployment.”

$1,700 per family is not so farfetched. Energy is a major component of everything we buy, service or product. If the average family income was $60,000 in 2006 that would be increase of 2.8%. Since it is estimated by the US DOE that electric rates could go up 30-100% and since electricity is embedded in everything this estimate is not unreasonable. The Census estimated that the family paid $2,432 in taxes so if one considered the increased cost as a surrogate for a tax, that increases their tax load to $4,100 or 6.8% of their income verses 4.0% in 2006. That would be, on a percentage basis, over a 50% increase in taxes per family.

Good reporting and it shows that for every action there are often unintended consequences.
My gut reaction would be for reasonable environmental standards to be issued, standards set by the epa with true input from the energy companies and then allow the free market to solve the problems.

Has anybody stopped to consider, by the time this administration gets done with new taxes, not just payroll, but all the other taxes they have been talking about, there will be nothing left for our bills and food.
You can only raise energy prices so high and businesses will have to raise their prices to pay their bills, so here we are in that vicious circle.
I’m getting just a little too old for these games. I don’t think I want to play them anymore.

CAP AND TRADE IS NOT POLLUTION CONTROL. IT IS A GIFT TO THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY. JUST LIKE HEALTH CARE IS A GIFT TO THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY. JUST LIKE WAR IS A GIFT TO THE ARMS INDUSTRY. IMPEACH OBAMA.

“…incorrect assumptions and overly simple math….”
Well, doesn’t that just sum up our political climate today? Of course, the article ignores the possibility that the math wasn’t just “overly simple” but a flat-out lie.
It’s almost understandable that the Treasury wouldn’t want to release numbers if they know that those numbers will just be twisted and abused to prove a fallacy.
The whole debate is an example of how the American people never want to pay the REAL cost of things.
They want to shop at Wal-mart/China because they don’t want to pay the price for things what would allow the people that make those things a wage that they can live on.
They didn’t want to pay the cost of cleaning up the pollution that was created by manufacturing things in the Sixties until they started seeing the dead fish in their rivers and the decimation of the bald-eagle population among other warning signs.
They don’t want to pay for hiring more police because then they couldn’t afford their giant flat-screen TVs. They would rather take their chances that the neighbors will be broken into and not themselves.
The American people never want to do things the right way when there’s a cheaper alternative that allows them to ignore the short-sightedness of their greed.

Consumer debt is now $14.5 trillion, or 34% greater than total consumer income each year. With the housing market crash, home equity fell from a high of $13 trillion in 2006 to just $8 trillion today. Consider where it would be without the massive government intervention and 80% ownership stake in US mortgages! Then consider that nearly 10% of all these government owned mortgages are in default, and 23% of the current FHA portfolio is already in default! In the last year 2.6 million Americans slipped from a tenuous position in the Middle Class into the ranks of the impoverished. Another million joined the ranks of those without health insurance–an astounding 46 million now. Another 1.3 million will lose unemployment benefits by year’s end. According to the Gallup daily tracking poll, job creation is down 35% over last year, so don’t expect a lot of new hiring. Teen unemployment is now 25.5%. A third of all workers under 35 are now living with their parents to make ends meet. USA Today reports that national bankruptcy filings are up 22% over 2008. More than 35 million Americans now rely on food stamps to feed themselves. Consequently consumer spending is now down a remarkable 33% over the previous year.

“Thankfully, there’s people like you, Modern Progressive, to control us…”
I can’t help but notice that you decide to attack me as controlling instead of presenting a rational argument that I was wrong in my conclusion.
Good thing there’s people like you, Stone Age Cons, that try to insult people that disagree with you instead of honestly debating them.

So 30 to 40 percent goes back to electric utilities. Instead of $1,761 it would be $1,232 or $1,056. Still significant. Then they will give away 85 percent of permits for free in early years. How many years? One, two, how many. Eventually it will be 100 percent.
The 30 to 40 that goes back, does anybody think that will last long? The government will end that one day, sooner or later.
While the money is being given back to utilities, the money could all go towards rebates. That means you have to spend money to get the rebate. The current rebate covers 30 percent of the cost. Americans would have to spend 100 percent to get that 30. Giving 15 percent of that money to the poor does not offset the majority of tax payers cost for the increase in energy cost.
For the majority of Americans the $1,761 is probably an fairly accurate number. If there is ‘false figure’ it would be Politifact and the authors of this article.

Concerned in OH,
Let’s just say it is an organization that Obama looks out for.

“He did no such thing. The President was careful and precise about his wording . . . it was saving or creating jobs – and we’re only 9 months into a 4-year program.”
“Now that it has passed through Congress to the president’s desk, the White House has given us a comprehensive estimate of how many jobs will be created in each state, thanks to the bill.” – US News and World Report, Feb. 9, 2009
The individual state estimates of created jobs was well over 1 million in this cited report.
Julie, you’ve been fact-checked and have been found wanting.

“US News and World Report, Feb. 9, 2009″
“you’ve been fact-checked and have been found wanting.”
And you’ve been found to use silly data.
How could USN&WR do an analysis of the effect of the stimulus less than a month after Obama was sworn in?

“Uh, you can’t separate corporate profits from middle class investors… that are tied to so-called “corporate greed” which come in the form of profits.”
And you can’t separate profits from expenses, like compensation. The more they pay in compensation the less profit they have to distribute to investors.
You do understand how Profit and Expenses work, right, because you don’t seem to see the connection.
See how the insult game can work both ways, so let’s just discuss this like adults.

“President Obama promised nothing of the sort.”
Julie, the President and his advisers sold us on the assurances that the stimulus would curb unemployment per the following:
“They [Republicans] are referring to a Jan. 9, 2009, report called “The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan” from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president’s top economic adviser.
“Their report projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create between three and four million jobs by the end of 2010. The report also includes a graphic predicting unemployment rates with and without the stimulus. Without the stimulus (the baseline), unemployment was projected to hit about 8.5 percent in 2009 and then continue rising to a peak of about 9 percent in 2010. With the stimulus, they predicted the unemployment rate would peak at just under 8 percent in 2009.” -PolitiFact, July 8, 2009
It was this report and other advisement that the President used as justification for his claims back in February that the stimulus would create or save millions of jobs.

-Besides we won’t really know what the effect of the stimulus bill is until the dust settles in a year or so and economists do the analysis.-
Can’t wait to hear what they’ve got to say! Especially Krugman. Listen, if you think the “dust will settle” in a year, you’ve got another thing coming. Besides, all these creeps are tied into the Fed. Grim over at the Huffington Post has a nice article on it.

“Her claim was the President never promised…”
And you’ve presented comments from everyone EXCEPT Obama. Still can’t find anywhere where HE made that statement?

“Still can’t find anywhere where HE made that statement?”
BTW I’m not saying you can’t just that you haven’t.
After all, he’s a politician and as I have said repeatedly, every politician lies – every party, every era, here and there, past and present.

“you seem to think that dictating/capping/curbing CEO pay is somehow…”
Wow, and you’re a mind reader.
“You have added up the amount of money saved by curbing CEO pay and…”
Well, first you assume that only one person’s pay should be less. If the CEO is getting millions than that culture speads to any number of executives. There is no way of knowing if the pay of the CFO, CIO, etc. is too much. But I think you would have to agree that paying bonuses to leaders of companies that are failing is a bad idea.
“While you’re at it, let’s expand this discussion to capping pay for music entertainers, Hollywood actors and directors, and professional athletes..”
Oh, on that we agree. Our values are totally screwed up. We pay billions to amuse ourselves (you forgot gambling, painters/artists, etc.) but policemen and firemen have to beg to get a 2% raise.
Police/Firemen should be paid what foorball players are paid and vice versa.
But I don’t know how to fix that. I am NOT in favor of passing laws to fix the problem, but I just don’t have a solution except for everyone suddenly coming to their senses and realizing that we need to pay people that do real work more than people that produce nothing but fluff.

“The economy has shed 1.6 million jobs since the stimulus measure was signed in February, far overshadowing White House announcements estimating the effort has saved 150,000 jobs. Public opinion of Obama’s handling of the economy has declined along with the jobs data.” – Huffington Post, June 8, 2009.

“Public opinion of Obama’s handling of the economy has declined along with the jobs data.”
Gee, what a surprise. When unemployment is high, people are unhappy with whoever is President at the time. Gee, who would have thought that?
Because it’s always been that way, maybe?

“If you really believe a CEO making $2 million isn’t ethical”
_________________________________
Thats’ $12 MILLION per year. Pretty careless with figures for knowing so much.

“It was this report and other advisement that the President used as justification for his claims back in February that the stimulus would create or save millions of jobs.”
_______________________________________
I’ve read the report the per centage unemployment figures come from and it was made very clear in that report that the world-wide economic meltdown was unprecedented and that their future projections are unreliable because of this.
The two authors of the report clearly stated that figures were not intended to be exact predictions of the future and that a wide margin of variability would be expected.
Time to stop trotting out this tired old right wing lie.

“The reality: Hollywood’s 10 best-paid actors out-earned Hollywood’s 10 best-paid actresses 2-to-1 over the course of the year.”
“Collectively, the big screen’s leading men took home an estimated $487 million between June 1, 2007, and June 1, 2008, compared with the leading ladies’ haul of $244.5 million.” – Forbes July 22, 2008.
So Julie’s all hot and bothered by “evil CEO’s” making $12 million/year when the top 10 actors on average each make almost 4x’s more and the top 10 actresses make twice as much as the $12 CEO. Yeah, Hollywood actors work so much harder. LOL. Of course, Julie won’t tell you to boycott the local cinema anymore than Republicans would tell you to boycott Exxon.

Well speaking of getting figures horribly wrong it looks like nobody is better at it than ol’ Mitt[job killer]Romney is. But why should we be surprised when numbers are carelessly thrown around by the same guy that casually tied his dog’s cage to the roof of his car and went on vacation?

Obama-barkers are out in full strength
tonite. Is there a full moon? If you
missed him today all over the TV set,
wait until he hits Nickelodeon, Oprah,
and Sportsman’s Channel. I mean, the
dude is so “versatile” and not averse
to exploiting “free” venues to sell
his expensive wares.

This President works under the cloak of darkness and no one can get ANYTHING out of the White House without a Freedom of Information lawsuit! What happened to all that “transparency” he promised? It’s Obamas fault if figures are not precise. He should be more forthcoming with the Media and the American people. We are sick of his “Chicago Way” of doing simple tasks. It’s getting tedious and even infuriating! Counting the days!!!!!

What’d you expect. After all Romney is a Republican, and anyone with any brains at all, knows it’s pretty much impossible to get an accurate and factual answer from Republicans.

84% of Democrats approve of Barack Obama’s “performance” as President of the United States, according to the most recent Rasmussen tracking poll.
And exactly what are 84% of Democrats approving?
84% of Democrats approve of burning 100 Afghan civilians to death in Kunduz.
84% of Democrats approve of killing 95 Afghan children in Farah.
84% of Democrats approve of long-term unemployment and destitution for millions of Americans.
84% of Democrats approve of $23.7 trillion in guaranteed loans for criminal bankers.
84% of Democrats approve of Obama’s flipflop about tax-cuts for billionaires.
84% of Democrats approve of Obama’s flipflop about NAFTA.
84% of Democrats approve of Obama’s flipflop about the Employee Free Choice Act.
84% of Democrats approve of huge cash outlays to mortgage bankers…
The outlay has already reached about $1 trillion over the past year and is rising. During that time, the government has pumped more money into the mortgage market than has been spent on Medicare or Social Security or the defense budget…
…while hundreds of thousands of homeowners are still foreclosed every month, and in August 2009, there was “a record high number of properties either entering default or being scheduled for a public foreclosure auction for the first time,” and…
Payrolls bled out another 216,000 jobs in August, and…
84% of Democrats approve!

Sure, but how many green jobs(!) will it “create or save??” Millions, I’m sure; just like The Stimulus.
LOL

If there is one thing for certain, the American taxpayer will foot the bill, no matter whose numbers we choose to use.
Being a realist, I would expect the higher numbers to be more real, than the lower numbers.
That primarily because, social programs are the current “fad” in Washington, again, and frankly, those cost so much, that it is inevitable, that taxes will have to increase dramatically to pay for them, if they are passed.
That goes for environmental actions as well.
If we are to be taxed, then the taxes should be on children, and do away with tax credits for children, entirely.
The environment cannot be saved with any current plans WITHOUT an accompanying reduction in world populations of humans. That is simple math, as well.

Why don’t we let Democrats pay for the that piece of garbage by themselves?
When James Hansen says that bill is worse than worthless, it must be absolutley horrible.
Then again, it’s not about the environment. It’s about money and control.

Americans for prosperity has issued a paper showing who benefits from Cap and Trade.
Democrats, of course.
And George Soros.

Not only will this cap and tax cost Americans a fortune, it will forcibly limit the choices of what energy they would like to choose. The main reason that we are going to pay through our noses for energy is that they are trying to make inefficient, impractical alternative energy sources competitive with current energy sources. The one world vision of extremists is going to destroy this nation. We are blessed as a nation with oil, natural gas, coal and the ability to build safe nuclear power stations. Yet, we are being led by a pied piper whose only vision for the United States is that it be part of a world order. God help us.

The truth of the matter is that it will cost me somewhere between $160 and $1,761. Knowing this government I’m afraid it will be closer to the higher number.

“lyineyes1956″ Your innuendo about lies from the President is and extreme version of the pot calling the kettle black. If you insist on making such accusations then you need to be able to relate to the rest of us what those are. Make sure that you provide for us the unbiased multiple sources of your proof that this has been going on. Make sure that your accusations are not just prejudicial supposition because you hate what he represents but actual real truth with REAL FACTS. Remember this, very well, speculations, guessing, accusations, lies, etc, are not the truth or factual. Do some real research with multiple unbiased sources and get back with us. Please! Who knows, you might find that there are REAL solutions out there that are constructive instead of your destructive ones.

To “Here’s Your Change”: Your post is more proof of unproven lies and extremist truth distortion from another far-right extremist who will do anything, at all costs, to discredit anything not labeled “republican”. Another reason why REAL Republicans who cannot stand your rhetoric are leaving the party of NO in droves.

-Another reason why REAL Republicans who cannot stand your rhetoric are leaving the party of NO in droves.-
Numbers please.

KINGS OF THE NEW MATH!
Posted by: Mike_C | Sep 21, 2009 1:57:02 PM
If you read the post, the “new math” or oversimplified math or fuzzy math or all three was used by Mitt Romney, cons and GOP’rs– I noticed Boehner cited the number as well on Meet the Press.

Posted by: Please: You want numbers? Hmm, I see accusations and assumptions from multiple posts in here and other places that have NO FACTS whatsoever. Now why should I practice what many here, maybe even yourself, do not practice what you have attempted to preach here. I choose to now follow the example of the extremist right-wingers that are posting here and are flooding our airwaves. Tell me one good reason why I should not do what those on the far right are doing on a regular day-by-day almost hour-by-hour basis. Republicans have not just become the party of “NO” but also the party of extremist propaganda, rhetoric, distortion, and miss-information. You cannot tell me I am wrong and so I conclude the people of reasonable thinking and protectors of REAL truth ARE LEAVING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN DROVES. I stand on this statement no matter what you say or how you attempt to prove otherwise. I win, you lose type of attitude whereby no one wins. Do you get the point? I doubt it when the mantra is all methods and means to win no matter what the damage. Destroy ALL American values and all that is good to hold power and win. No middle ground, just single-minded agenda. You are ALWAYS right no one else can be right.

If the cap and trade will not cost jobs why did the Democrats add language to the bill that allows the Administrators of Social Security and Medicare to draw money from the general fund,if the Cap and trade(energy bill) costs jobs?

Posted by: dlboggan | Sep 21, 2009 3:22:50 PM —– then you will pay out the tail end for that “trust” you so blindly allow the elitists who run this govt. Good luck with that and have a great day.

Please, this cap and tax fraud is just another way for the Feds to tax people. I am so sick of Obama, I just turn off the TV If I even hear he is going to be on. I cannot stand his explanations targeted at 3 year old.

$1761 / family or per family that
pays taxes or more per families which pays taxes because of the demorats that don’t?

General Electric (this administration’s Halliburton) stands to make a fortune off Cap and Trade.

Cap and Trade will do NOTHING to help the environment. It has already been proven. Still, nobody on the left seems to care that this is simply a big money making scheme for certain extremely rich elitests who are poised to make billions more off bad legislation while doing nothing to help the environment and doing everything to hurt the average citizen. What I don’t get is why the lefties are not concerned about how much this will hurt the poor?? The poor will suffer the most!

Cap and trade is a non-existant solution to a non-existant problem, yet for some unknown reason millions of people who are incapable of grasping the science behind what drives the climate are willing to buy into this story hook, line and sinker. Guess who stands to profit from trading carbon credits? Look up Generation Investment Management. P.T. Barnum would be proud.

“You cannot tell me I am wrong and so I conclude the people of reasonable thinking and protectors of REAL truth ARE LEAVING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN DROVES.”
Why do you care? You hate Republicans. Democrats have super majorities in both chambers of Congress. Your HOPE and CHANGE Utopia is here! Go ahead, shed that frown and give that unicorn a hug. Yes you can!

Everytime Obama opens his mouth, it costs the taxpayers billions of dollars. Just keep making life more expensive! We love the government taking more and more away from us and wasting it or giving it to corporations as take over bailouts or fine, upstanding organizations like ACORN and all of it’s organizations. Bush spent like a drunken sailor, but you sir are Number 1 by a landslide. Bravo.

Maybe you should tell that to CHINA and INDIA, they are polluting more then the US. Your dreaming if you think that if we have the cap and tax that every other country will follow suit. But maybe you are in the same league as GE (NBC) and Vice Pres. Gore and make billions on the CAP and TAX.

Lizzie wrote – How can people continue to ignorantly believe that we can keep polluting and dumping on this Earth and that it won’t retaliate against us?
This is the perfect example of the arrogant, pacifist, ignorant, kumbaya liberal that is contributing to the dumbing down of this country and destroying its soul. Lizzie – here’s a news flash! There is NO RELATIONSHIP between pollution and CO2, so stop blurring the lines like the rest of your kind. And this hidious attempt to enact cap-and-trade to solve a non-existent problem is immoral and reprehensible to any thinking person. The U.S. has had incredible success over the past 40 years in curbing pollution and any efforts in that area are fully supported by Republicans and Democrats alike. Repeat after me. pollution…bad. Cap and Trade…unrelated. Man-made Global Warming…a farce.