Dem Senator Warns of ‘Big, Big Tax’ on Middle Class in Baucus Bill

actually individuals with crummy insurance will pay more!!! too. a simple crummy individual policy costs $15000 per year per person and would be taxed. tax on a junk policy. not a cadillac policy. tax should be on policies that have high coverage, not just by cost

The government needs to cease and desist on any health plan. There is too much corruption in our government with all their other plans. Can we still trust the government???

“It’s not every day that you hear a Democratic senator charge that a fellow Democrat”
Right, It’s happens more than most mite think, It just doesn’t get reported by the MSM as it is not there interest. The MSM are not journalists there the advertising arm of the the DNC.

“I did not have sex with that women”

Dems and Reps don’t support this plan and the President keeps saying – Hurry up, we need to pass something. Our government is a mess.
Since this is an ABC column – DID YOU HEAR THE ONE ABOUT ACORN . . .

Remember obama’s promise of no new taxes on the middle class when you vote in 2010 and 2012!

I will take ABC seriously when they learn from the amateurs at biggovernment.com what investigative journalism is.
The silence of the “mainstream” media on the ACORN scandal speaks volumes to how profoundly “in the tank” for Obama they are, to the point where they are acting like a de facto state run media.
I have been shocked and horrified at how these very real scandals have been ignored or white washed in the media. This was inconceivable when I was younger—the future looks horrifying until and unless the media snaps out of its spell and learns to do its job again.

Wow…. a tax on the middle class…. you don’t say…

Jay now realizes that his constituents will vote his butt out of office unless they get this care for free. Everyone, at least the uninformed and all ACORN workers always expected a free lunch. Now they find out what the free lunch will eventually cost.
And by the way, hurry up so nobody knows the level of future pain.

Nothing matters – if unemployment in this country is at 10% or highter – no one will be in a position to afford anything. Taxes will have to go up on everyone – business down, sales down, government income down. This Administration feels when in debt – add more debt – more costly programs, more socialism. With over 300 million citizens in this country and bad dudes everywhere wanting to take us down – we need to think smart and remain strong.
These two critical issues are not being addressed by the politicians in Washington. So much yakking about health care reform – like worrying about what beverage to serve at a meal when there is no food to be had anywhere. Very serious situation – and now the yakker in chief will spend an entire weekend and beyond on TV shows.
For Obama it is vacation or speech – that is the extent of his work week.

This tax will affect the ederly as well. Turns out 8 G’s a year does not buy much healthcare, especially if you are over 50. Go gettem Dems coal miners and old folks! Seal the deal!

But if our taxes go up, even a DIME, it proves Obama is a liar… Sadly, according to the democrats I must be a racist for being able to do math… for being able to count (beyond ten)… for noticing Obama says things that are not true… I am the one with a problem (because I can think for myself and do not goose step blindly behind the pied piper).

Oh no, Jay is disaggreeing with Obama, that means that Jay is a RACISIST! I am shocked to see a Senator actually thinking about his constituents, of course it’s not that he is thinking abouts his constituents as much as he’s thinking about saving his own rear end. I’ll bet he won’t be invited over to Carter’s house anytime soon.

Where’s the ACORN coverage??

Sen. Rockefeller’s point is probably accurate, but ultimately pointless. If the Democrats get their way on tax policy, healthcare policy, lawsuit reform, environmental policy, etc., all the coal miners, steel makers, any anyone involved in manufacturing of any kind will be taxed and regulated and sued into bankruptcy or forced to relocate overseas. Senator, stop trying to protect your middle class constituents from this Democratic health care tax increase, and focus instead on protecting them from the liberal assault on their livlihoods.

Sen. Rockefeller’s point is probably accurate, but ultimately pointless. If the Democrats get their way on tax policy, healthcare policy, lawsuit reform, environmental policy, etc., all the coal miners, steel makers, any anyone involved in manufacturing of any kind will be taxed and regulated and sued into bankruptcy or forced to relocate overseas…………
and the looters and loafers march on….

Obama does not understand basic economics and believes people are (like him) too stupid to grasp it. That is why he wants to raise taxes only on the rich and businesses (obviously, he thinks they print their own money and do not actually get their money from the poor and middle class by raising the price of their wares, goods and services in order to pay Obama’s new taxes). People that voted for Obama should proudly wear a sign that says: “I’m with stupid”.

How about something absolutely crazy here – let the people decide on their own insurance. Let them shop across state line. I know, I know – that’s a crazy thought that us, the great unwashed peons can actually think for ourselves. Of course, there are some who truly wants to gub’mt to pick out their underwear.
How about tort reform? What about health care savings account? How about letting people decide if they want to buy healthcare insurance in the first place.
I know, I know that gives us too much freedom.
Hey, ABC, you haven’t retweeted this story yet, have it? Hate to see you retract it. Then again, has anyone turned to Charlie Gibson for his opinion, or does he even know there’s a healthcare debate going on. Hey, guys, you’ve walked right into those two digs.

Once again, Obama is a liar!

Would someone, anyone, please quote for me the section of the U.S. Constitution that gives the federal government the right to decide what kind of health insurance I have? Please!! I keep a copy of the Constitution on my desk and I can’t find such a section.

I’m shocked, shocked to discover we still have steelworkers in this country!

–The West Virginia Democrat worries, however, that a lot of middle class workers, like the coal miners in his state, will end up facing “a big, big tax” under the Baucus bill because they currently enjoy generous employer-provided health care benefits which they receive tax free.–
And remember, if you oppose ObamaCare, Jimmy Carter says it is because YOU ARE RACIST!

If ain’t broke don’t fix it. May need a nip and tuck but a complete overhaul. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!! Union pandering prez is already set the inflation wheel in motion with tariffs, wage increase (he voted for it prior to last election) .. so lets pile on more taxes.
Mr. president, how about tort reform first. How about cross state line competition first. Try the nip and tuck first.

Brilliant deduction, Jay, just brilliant. Sounds a lot like what conservatives have been saying FOREVER.

“These incompetents in D.C. always over estimate how much tax revenue a certain new tax will bring in. I would guess that it will be a much lower amount, especially when it does what it intends to in reducing the number of these high cost insurance plans. Where do they get money to fund whatever they were going to with the $200 billion, once they accomplish getting rid of the majority of these high cost plans?”
Jason, getting rid of the majority of high cost plans in addition to private insurance companies in general is the goal itself, not simply the side effect of the Democrats’ health care plan. Obama has said in his own words that he wants a single payer system. The bottom line is that the American free enterprise system is much easier to control after it has already been run into the ground. We need to keep our eye on the ball and focus on what is really at stake here.

ssshhhhh Jay – now you’ve let the cat out of the bag. Now everyone will know that the whole idea behind all of the Democrat ‘health reform’ plans is to force everyone into a government single payer plan. Now Obama’s got to make up another lie to cover for your big mouth.

Listen up, Washinton! Stay out of health care. Your track record is deplorable i.e. Medicare & Social Security are BUST! You’ve got an F… as in failure! While you’re at it get out of the school system! Let local communities handle it….money would go so much further without all the fingers in the pie!

Jay Rockefeller couldn’t care less about raising taxes on the middle class. This is simply a tactic he’s using to kill a bill that doesn’t have a public option.

How can this be? Our president said the $900B would be paid for with cost savings from the elimination of waste and more efficient administration of the program. Don’t you belive him or are you a racist?

How dumb is this? The insurance companies will just lower the premium to $7999 and not pay any of the new tax. Congress won’t raise any more revenue because free thinking people always find the loopholes.

Nothing an amendment to exempt unions can’t fix, then he won’t be so “concerned”.

When Obama told us the other night he’d get medicare cleaned up if we’d just go ahead and hand him the whole thing. That was funny! By the way, have any of the auto dealers received any of their “$ For Clunkers” money yet?

Does this mean Rockefeller is a racists?
Let Jimmy know.

Here in MA, an individual healthcare policy is about $3,500 and a family plan is about $10,000. Coal miners in WV would be taxed under a plan that taxes policies over $8,000/$21,000?? What part of this picture are we not seeing?

Where was Rockefeller when Obama said he would BANKRUPT the American coal industry? Campaigning for him, that’s where.

This whole discussion is insanity. Imagine that a potential business associate approaches you with a voluminous contract that is written in indecipherable legalese. Imagine that this potential business associate says to you, “Don’t bother reading it, I’ll explain what it says to you. By the way, sign it very quickly because I am in a big hurry”. What would you do? If you have half a brain, you would turn tail and run in the other direction. This analogy depicts the bum rush that Barack Obama tried to perpetrate against the American people. Why the push back? Contrary to the old fool in Plains, Georgia’s assertion that we’re all a bunch of racists, the fact of the matter is that we (the American people) are not as dumb as Barack Obama and the democrats counted on us as being.

BO will spin this by saying that it is not a tax on the middle class, it is a tax on luxery insurance policies. And, our MSM (ABC included) will report that BO is not breaking his campaign promise. So predictable

Helloooo ABC, where are all the ACORN stories? Clean up ALL the corruption before you touch ANYTHING corrupt congress people!

So what else is new? The only people who will be surprised are the young voters who not only thought “Change” would be good, but putting a Negro in the White House would end the racial problems. Have you ever seen or heard as much about race as you are now? When the media drag up Jimmy Carter to shame us you know they are scraping the bottom. The only people naive enough to listen to him will be those too young to remember 13% unemployment, 20% inflation and turning down your thermostat plus the long gas lines and no fuel at any price.

End the obamacare madness before we all go broke. AND, INVESTIGATE ACORN NOW!

now wait a minute…..are we to believe that coal miners have a health insurance policy that is “above $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for family plans”?
Really? That’s over 60% higher than what an average middle class employee has. I think somebody better check into what coal miners plans are really. I’m skeptical.

I guess we are now going to hear that Teddy Davis is a racist because of this article.

This senator must be wrong. Obama never lies. Right?
Why does ABC ignore the ACORN scandal?

This is not about health care. This is about the government gaining control of your lives vis-a-vis “health care” legislation, ergo taxation, ergo IRS, ergo control over personal information.
The whole thing is an intentional deception, and the folks are biting like the suckers they are.
Assume responsibility for every aspect your own lives. Hold congress in check by electing candidates who vow to serve under the premise of being held accountable for only the 18 enumerated powers granted it “by the people”.
When they stray – vote ‘em out!

I learned in the seventh grade that taxation without representation is tyranny.If 80% of the people don’t want any of this why pay taxes? Will they use stimulus money to build new prisons?Enough is enough

Steve
The only people claiming racism on Rockefeller’s opposition to Baucus’s proposal are righties.

Does that mean he’s a racist too?

Taxes, Taxes, Taxes, that was what fueled the revolution for independence won in 1776 and probably would be the catalyst for another revolt as what ever remains of the US middle class cannot afford these penalty

The Obama parties over !
We call that a Quick-eeeeee !

Of course its going to cost the middle class a bunch of money. Free health care for all the uninsured, along with no more prexisting conditions, all the new preventive care mandates, (its like everyone will be able to go to the doctor as much as they want, don’t worry about paying for it), has to be paid by someone. There is only so much you can tax the wealthy for this huge part of the economy. You can’t tax the rich more than 100%. All the extra visits to the doctor being mandated by the government can only lead to rationed care, this is what has happened when this has gone to other countries.

There’s an old story about the pet food manufacturer who couldn’t believe that his pet food wouldn’t sell with the slickest advertising and marketing and asked for a solution.
A brave employee finally spoke up: “The dogs don’t like it.”
Looks like Rockefeller and many other Democrats have figured it out. The VOTERS don’t like it.

“When morons can’t argue on the basis of fact and reason, they trot out the race BS.”
I couldn’t agree more. Which is why we’re seeing righties bringing it up in post after post on this board.

President Obama is just trying to “keep the insurance companies honest”. Because corruption, thugs and criminals always reside in industry and the private sector. Never, never in government or non-profits.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller – due to the prohibitive taxes on coal-generated power which the Obama abomination has promised, those coal miners will soon become unemployed.
So, there is no need to worry about their medical plans being taxed prohibitively.
But the future is not totally dismal – in a few years those same coal miners, if they have somehow survived, will be encouraged to apply for new environmentally friendly jobs – huffing and puffing into windmills to generate green energy.

“the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down and lower benefits”–Wow, is that the sound of a Democrat invoking trickle down economics?
And while I’m here, where is the Acorn story? Major fraud of taxpayer money is not a story just for “the cables” Charlie Gibson!

Jay Rockefeller is brilliant!!! Typical limo liberal – cush life provided by John D., gets elected b/c of name & money (again via John D), and now reps the people of WV. This guy has no clue how regular folks live or what they want for their families. OUT OF TOUCH.

BOB C and others havve it right, Where is the ACORN story?

So let me get this straight. In order to REDUCE the cost of health care – this bill will INCREASE the cost of some insurance plans by $200 Billion? And that will have the effect of making things cheaper? Give me a break.

Thanks, Kelly for the kudos.
One final thought on the nonsensical issue of “health care”:
I suggest everyone inundate their Reps’ and Sens’ offices, calling for a provision in the final House and Senate versions that mandates 1) all federally elected officials must comply with the bills themselves, and 2) repeal any existing legislation that gives exclusive health care accommodation to federally elected officials.
That would cause the whole ridiculous $1 trillion+ scam to disappear overnight.

WHEN IS ABC GOING TO COVER THE ACORN SCANDEL?????????????????????????????????????

Its not what Jay says, it is what he does that we will be watching. How many times has a Democrat opposed legislation that he ultimately votes for? Can the American people trust anyone to represent us?

Add to this a 100-200 Billion/Yr. Cap and Trade tax and the American public should soon be in the streets. That is an additonal $1,761.00/family/yr.. With TARP, Health-Care, Stimulus, Rising National Debt, Medicare, Soc. Security and Medicade, these Democrats still think the American public can withstand the tax hikes. All of which they will exempt themselves from…legally or otherwise.

Looks like more proof that Obama lied and Joe Wilson told the truth.

Coal miners need not worry about their health insurance. With Cap and Trade looming they will worry about keeping their jobs.

While I understand Rockefeller’s concern for his own state’s coalminers and steelworkers, who through their unions, have some of the “cadillac plans” Obama has railed against……
Is Rockefeller suggesting that Unions should be exempt from the Obama/Baucus 35% “surcharge” on those policies?
Should Senators and Congressmen be exempt? Should federal workers be exempt?
Will this surcharge being promoted by The One as “caring about our fellow Americans” only be applied to everyone, or selectively be done to favor Obama’s supporters?
Not only that, but will state and local government workers ALSO pay this 35% surcharge?
If this is what Baucus & Obama want, without any special exemptions for their own supporters, then it might be considered fair.
But if Rockefeller gets to protect his coalminers, Boxer gets to protect her state government workers, or Clyburn gets to protect his AFL-CIO/SEIU workers through exemptions, then NOTHING has changed.
Tread very very carefully, Democrats.
Although, I do admit, that the thought that the elitist million-dollar media know-it-alls may have to pay 35% surcharges on their own cadillac plans, brings a smile to my face.
Do Charlie Gibson, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and Katie Couric know?

Well, Jay…if the coal miners don’t know that tax hike is coming why don’t you tell them? That’s part of your job isn’t it? Unless, of course, your way of “leading” is to stand on the sidelines and wait to pile on with the “winning” team.

Yeah, “pat” Tort Reform is always a great idea until somebody literally gets their eye poked out.
You want to be the one maimed for life without fair compensation?
Be careful what you wish for.

A tax on the middle class from the party that LOVES to tax. Quelle surprise! Dems are the party of MAJOR taxation.
You can’t have universal healthcare without taxing EVERYONE.
Let’s tax everyone into bankruptcy.

The election of Obama was tantamount to writing the obituary for a formerly great Nation. Obama repeatedly admitted during the campaign (but now blatantly lies about it) that he supports a single payer system, i.e. Socialized Medicine; and, his “Government Option” is designed to force private insurers out of the market in order to achieve precisely that goal. As Obama said: “I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process…” Barney Frank then unashamedly admitted that Obama’s “Public Option” was simply a Trojan Horse for surreptitiously introducing full blown Socialized Medicine. Which raises the question as to whether you can believe anything Obama says! With an overwhelmingly negative public response, the only question now is: In what disguised form will a stealth “public option” emerge? The American people have astutely spoken loud and clear that Socialized Medicine is anathema; but, Obama’s Marxist psyche prohibits him from accepting free market reforms which should begin with shutting down illegal immigration and Tort Reform, both of which Obama unconditionally rejects. Obama’s ACORN, funded thru Obama with Billions of YOUR tax dollars, is busily registering illegals; and, Trial Lawyers are among his principal campaign contributors. But the most insidious part of Obama’s plan is the coming bureaucratic denial of life saving procedures for the elderly. (Does an Obama proposed 500 Billion $ cut in Medicare reimbursements sound any alarms?) As Obama says: “Take an aspirin” and just wait to die. (( Pg 30: SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE of HC bill – THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get. AND, PG 430: SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION Lines 11-15 The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.)) The elderly should revolt over Obama’s health care proposals. He learned from his wife Michelle that considerable sums of health care funds could be saved by the practice of “patient dumping” which Michelle employed in Chicago. Facts that are precisely why Health Care legislation, that HAD TO BE DONE BY YESTERDAY, does not take effect until 2013, i.e. AFTER the next presidential election when voters will then be blindsided by a pending disaster. And, just remember that Obama and his Congressional colleagues have EXEMPTED themselves from compliance with their own proposed health care debacle. If left unrestrained, Obama will do irreparable harm to the American economy. Greg Neubeck

I was listening to Rush, he had a copy of the Baucus Bill, there are 5 pages of tax increases. Baucus is rasing taxes on things I didn’t even knew exisited. This Health Bill will cost every one and every business a masive amount of money. Rush read 2 pages of the 5, it is shocking to hear the amount of new taxes and they are not all on the rich, they are on you and me.

Health care is NOT free. Someone has to pay and there are not enough “rich” people left to tax to pay for the entire cost of this and the rest of the government. Of course the middle class will see their taxes go way up. Everyone will

Obama….
The constant lying.
The staggering arrogance.
The dangerous narcissism.
The astounding incompetence.
Obama wants to put as much of the private economy under government control as possible to create his nanny state utopia where he is the boy king.
Let’s continue to stand strong against Obama in every way and get Congress out of the hands of the insane Pelosi and Reid in 2010.
Obama is a smug, smirking con man.
Nothing more.

I’m a cost analyst for the government. They do not know how to do proper cost analysis and they always overrun on costs by an order of magnitude.
An easy example: The Kennedy Center parking lot costs grew by over 200% from 1998 to 2003. A PARKING LOT. How much do you think that $1 Trillion price tag will grow by?

Rockefeller…LOL.
HE’D BE LINING UP TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL IF IT DIDN’T AFFECT HIS COAL MINERS…THAT’S WHY I’M NOT IMPRESSED EVEN THOUGH I BELIEVE HE’S DOING THE RIGHT THING.
IF IT WAS TAXING SOMEONE ELSE, HE WOULD CARE LESS AS LONG AS HE COULD GET RE-ELECTED.

I would trust the government running health care as much as I would trust ACORN saying no to child prostitution. Neither has much credibility at the moment.

Max Bacchus is an idiot and almost everyone in Montana is embarrassed over the “health care” proposal he is crafting. He is completely unqualified to work on this issue and has surrounded himself with cotton mouthed sycophants and uber-liberal political lobbyists to wonk the issue. Would you trust an over 60 year old man whose only address in his home state is a room in his mother’s basement?

Is 2012 here yet?

Rockefeller has never stood up for the little guy. He is just looking out for union benefits because if their “generous” health care plans are taxed they will have to live with the same benefits the rest of us have. If their benefits go down, so does his chance of reelection.
I am trying to figure out how these morons making laws plan on taxes being raised as if the behavior being taxed will continue indefinitely. If they tax high-end insurance plans, most folks will lower their plans to not be taxed or change the formations to avoid the tax.
They are currently taxing HMO plans 3% to pay for illegal’s emergency room healthcare…the insurance companies just changed to a new plan called a HRA, which will not have that tax.
The ONLY way to fix this problem is to let people buy their own insurance, remove restrictions from cross-state policies, get the employer OUT of the insurance game, and set up a government buy-in that allows people to join a “group” and private insurance compete for the business. Somewhat the same idea as home insurance in coastal areas.
Rockefeller and all of the other democrats are salivating over how fast they can get control of this industry, unionize it, and then rape it for every dime they can..then say they need more.
This has nothing to do with what is right for the People. It is only about power, unionization, taxation, and changing the demographic makeup of the USA.
Look at Social Security and Medicare. They have taken every dime out of that system, which would be self-sufficient otherwise, and they have turned it in to a huge taxation issue in the near future.
It is sick what we allow these people to do with our money. We need to send them less so they might actually begin to control themselves.
I know, fat chance.

Not to mention that all healthcare providers under the government plan will need to be “unionized”. Costs trough the roof with TSA like results!

Any Democratic plan will cover illegals and the uninsured. This has to be paid for and there are only two ways to do it…cut services or tax those who already have insurance. To pretend that the insurance companies are gouging us and that we will cover the costs by getting savings is idiotic. Think USPS, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the defense department contracts, etc. to see how any federal government run program is a disaster when it comes to cost and efficiency. Wake up you liberal morons!

This is by far the most incompetent 545 federal Government officials in the history of this nation. I will be voting and volunteering against every federal incombent in my state in 2010 and 2012. What a mess.

Rockefeller, Baucus, the lot…this whole health care debacle stinks to high heaven. Why don’t the Democrats leave things well enough alone? Why do they have to stick their noses in “reform” which turns out to make things worse than they already are?
Here’s a clue, folks…We could tack on some nice reforms, like doing away with the refusal to cross state lines, insuring those with pre-existing conditions, tax subsidies for the poor and indigent, etc., tort reform, all along these lines. This could take 10 minutes, and would get massive bipartisan support. Instead, Obama and his Gang of Fools want to remake a new system of socialized medicine – sorry, liberals, but that is what it is – with death panels (yep, they are in there), and, as Obama lied about, care for illegal aliens which the Baucus bill at least addresses and does away with. The Dems want this socialist program in place because they know it is unpopular with the American people, but they figure if they can ram it down everyone’s throat and make it law, no one will be able to undo it, and we have socialized 1/6th of the US economy.
Obama’s plans are scaring the bejesus out of people. No wonder his job ratings are going down, down, down.

We need to put federal conngressional term limits on the national ballot! and make it illeagal for any political office holder to work as a lobbyist. I’m sick of these bought and paid for dinsaurs.

Hey ABC:
Where was
the coverage
of the 9/12
march on
Washington?

I disagree with the whole idea, but for those that think it is a good idea there are issues. The following are two that come quickly to mind:
1) Group insurance rates are dependant on the size of the group and their participation rates. This is because the larger the group the less volatile the expected claims. Also, the higher the participation rate the more likely the group’s risk profile is to the assumed population risk profile, which presents some cross subsidies and also lowers the group’s claim volatility. Thus, two identical plans will have different rates for different companies presenting the anomaly of the larger group going untaxed while a much smaller group pays taxes.
2) For individual insurance both age and location enter into the rates as the rates reflect expected payments. A younger person will have a lower premium than an older person for what should be obvious reasons. Further, location enters the picture since the health care costs charged must cover provider expenses. So, for example, a GP in Brooklyn, NY will have a much higher office rent (and staff salary) than a GP in Brooklyn, Iowa. Thus, the NY policy will necessarily have a higher for the exact same benefits. So, again there is the unintended consequence of the NY resident paying taxes while the Iowa resident does not.

Sorry Jay, since Obama is going to put the coal mines out of business with his cap and tax bill…it won’t matter.

Mark my words: Gird your loins.
Oh, and you might want to tighten your grip on your your wallets…
Barack and I are gonna raise your taxes to new heights, just like we promised last October.
What? We said we weren’t going to raise taxes on the middle class?
Well, I guess that good ol’ Joe Wilson was right.
We lie.

This whole issue started as a competitive measure between Hillary and Obama. No one else asked for it and now it has evolved to be something that all America wanted. Worng. Obama wanted it to show up Hillary and now the contest has shown that the public is not in favor of this administration trying to screw up anything else, they have done enough harm already. Lets put Obama, Reid and Pelosi out to pasture!

So!!! One of the big time spenders says that the health care bill as proposed is going to cost too much money. I wonder if he got permission from the great one before he said all of that?
See it’s okay if you rip-off the other taxpayers, just don’t rip-off the tax payers I have to answer to. That seems to be his philosophy. At least he does seem concerned for his constituents. I’ll give him that.

took courage for a lefty like Rocky to admit the truth, that everyone outside of DC knows: this health care bill is an Edsel, which will raise costs and lower care.
Meanwhile, InaneObama is on a never-ending robotic “speech loop: like MUSAK in an elevatore, soporific, moronic, blah blah blah… & repeat ad nauseum…

Obama says we can save Billions in Fraud and Waste in one Govt Healthcare program ( Medicare) to finance another )( Obamacare). Its been 8 Months since he took office. Has he saved one dime from Medicare waste as of yet? Show us for 6 Months .

But, but, but…..President Obama promised no tax increases for the middle class. (I think he said this many times.)
Trust the government ? In a pig’s eye !!

When J.R. says “workers”, he means unions. All of these Democrat plans will increase taxes.
If the rest of us have to pay, and lose our private insurance on top of that, then union members ought to feel the pain too.

Gee Whiz I thought Congress was working on important stuff like censuring Rep Joe Wilson for telling the President, “You Lie!” Those are the things the American people are interested in. Not whether or not their taxes are going to EXPLODE!
I guess these Senators have finally added two and two and gotten four instead of the Obama math version-which was zero. Are we awake yet people?

Speaking of ABC being out of touch with reality. I understand Charles Gibson whom I think is on ABC was asked what he thought about all the ACORN controversy? He replied, “What controversy?” When it was explained to him, he said maybe we ought to let the cable news shows handle that. He is either incredibly stupid and out of touch or is just playing that way since they are all in the tank for the administration. If I am wrong on this I offer my apologies. This was reported on Bill O’Rielley.

Wait, just yesterday, President Barack Obama told the AFL-CIO Tuesday his administration has “stopped our economic free fall” and is determined to seal a recovery while revitalizing America’s middle class.
Hey, someone’s LYING!

No need for a tax increase. What we need to do is investigate ACORN fully. See, if they are helping people avoid taxes and set up illegal businesses, that is an untapped revenue stream that can be used to fund Health Care. Think about it…I just wonder why President Obama won’t insist on an investigation of ACORN? Just send in the IRS and the Justice Department, then cut off their funding. That should net about 200 billion in lost revenue and savings! See? Problem solved – everyone’s happy

Does not start until 2013. Wonder why? Would that be so that the new “tax” would not actually hit anyone’s pocket until after BO got a chance at re-election. Not possible that it is designed for that reason?

YOU LIE! NOT!
it’s nice to hear the truth out of a Democrats mouth – thank you!

Margaret Thatcher said “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money”. This is where we’re going. Baucus was supposed to be the “Moderate” bill, but it’s another socialist utopia bill. Move along, no socialism to see here. Bull.

This straightforwardness from the Dems (some of them, that is!) is refreshing to see!
Also: Here is a list of all the tax hikes in the Baucus Draft proposal (from Americans for Tax Reform).

Rockefeller, who sits on the Finance Committee, said that he cannot support the Baucus bill unless it receives major improvements during the amendment process
Here is most of what is wrong with the hr3200 bill it in no way now reflects what the final bill will be like after the contradicting amendments are attached and we will not even know the changes. Can any body say Dobbs. on AI
G bonuses

Rockefeller may also be looking to the future. The present Democratic party as it is set up now, has no future. Will the entire world grow progressively more radical. The desperation in the party is apparent. People with family history and vast connections like Rockefeller undoubtedly can call on the elders both active in politics and not active, who remember the moderate Democrat of the sixties. In the future, that is the only Democrat who stands a chance of regaining trust for this out-of-control political frenzy we presently call the Democratic Party.

they should do 5% tax on people who make $1M or more.

Simple question that I hope someone that understands this better than myself could answer…….
?? WILL THIS SAME TAX APPLY TO LET US SAY A UNION PIPE FITTER LIKE MYSELF ??
I am assuming that it will because our health insurance probably works similar to that of a coal worker. Thanks in advance.

How about we use facts?
Great job NUT roots.
Here is what you have promoted, a middle class tax increase, from your nut job elected officials:
This is a simple union payback, plain and easy to understand. When the government own healthcare, the unions can capilize all the dollars they have to stash to cover their folks when they are out of work, and they can line their own pockets, while helping to fund democrat re-elections!
The whole bill, and all versions should be scrapped, for simple, economic/capitalisitc approach to problem solving.
MOST insurance companies are NPO’s, but you and your ilk own’t say that.
You want facts, here they are:
The specific causes of rising costs touch on
many parts of our society and include:
• Advances in medical technology
• Chronic conditions resulting from demographics
and lifestyles choices
• Cost-shifting to the private sector
• Wasteful health care spending
• Consumer demand
Heaklth dollar breakdown:
89% Cost of Care
10% Administrative
1% Profit
The growing prevalence of chronic medical
conditions is driving up the cost of health care.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention (CDC), chronic diseases afflict almost
half of all Americans – 133 million people – and
account for 70 percent of all deaths and more than
three-fourths of the $2.2 trillion spent on health care
yearly in the United States. And as the U.S.
population ages, the number of people with at least
one chronic medical condition is growing. Chronic
conditions include diabetes, asthma, depression,
high blood pressure, high cholesterol levels, cancer,
heart failure and others.
Obesity and physical inactivity cause many chronic
ailments, including diabetes, and are driving up
health care costs. The CDC has reported that,
nationally, 33 percent of adults are obese, with
nearly 20 percent of children ages 2 to 19
overweight. Obesity has been estimated to generate
$36 billion in annual health care costs.
According to the National Business Group on
Health, scientific evidence shows that the three
major contributors to chronic disease are tobacco
use, poor diet and an inactive lifestyle. Eliminating
these three determinants would prevent 80 percent
of heart disease, 80 percent of type II diabetes
cases and 40 percent of cancer cases. The steady
increases over the past two decades in the use of
hospital emergency rooms, hospital outpatient
departments, and physician office visits are
primarily linked to the increased use of services for
people with chronic medical conditions.
ZYou want change you can believe in, read the fatcs, talk about the facts, not the hyperbole.
More facts anyone?
A 2008 study by Milliman Inc., a global actuarial and
consulting firm, found that low Medicare and
Medicaid reimbursement to health care providers
results in “cost shifting” to private health insurance
carriers. According to the study, the underpayment
of providers by public programs results in higher
provider payment levels by private insurers and
adds 11 percent to the costs paid by privately
insured employers and employees through higher
premiums and cost-sharing levels.
The study said the estimated annual cost shift from
public to private insurers totals almost $89 billion,
approximately 15 percent of the current amount
spent by private insurers on hospital and physician
services. Stated slightly differently, if there were no
cost shifting, private hospital and physician
payments would be 15 percent lower, according to
the study.
read that again, old people care, and indigent care, costs, it costs OTHERS….we are ALREADY paying for your care!
More facts?
• An Aging Population: As people age, they tend
to need and tend to use more medical services.
• Government Mandates: Government mandates
and regulations account for about 15 percent of
health care costs. Mandates that expand
coverage of benefits and providers are causing
health insurance premiums to rise.
• Labor Costs: Labor costs make up the largest
share of hospital spending, which accounts for
more than 30 percent of health expenditures.
Shortages of primary care physicians, nurses and
other health care professionals – especially in
rural areas – can increase recruitment and labor
costs and drive up the cost of providing care for
hospitals and physician practices.
• Malpractice: Concerns about medical malpractice
lawsuits can push physicians to practice
more defensive medicine, which can result in
more costly care with little or no impact on
health outcomes.
That’s right folks, trial lawayers cost money, so do new treatments, drugs and technology.
Time for the grown-ups to start running things again, the kids had their chance!

Count on the mainstream media – AbC, CBS et al to play this down. The networks are in deep with OBAMA – how any conservative could ever watch ANYTHING the mainstream media, including Hollywood, puts out is beyond me. You can be sure that this isn’t given any serious air play and if it is, that it is played down.

In fact, it is weird how there is now two different sets of news in this country. There is the news put out by the mainstream traditional media – ABC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, most other major newspapers and news magazines like Time and Newsweek – that is carefully edited to keep out anything that could be considered critical of OBAMA or the Demcorat party, or anything that the Democrats support. Then there is the alternative news sources, which incldue the real news, and shows what’s actually going on in the world. And, of course, the entertainment arm of the of the mainstream media follows suit – note how the entertainment is carefully tailored to present only Democrat points of view. As an example, religion is either eliminated entirely, or is presented in the worst possible light (unless, of course if it is non-western religion, which is considered “honest”). After decades of this manipulation there are actually people in this country who are so brainwashed as to vote for a Democrat candidate, even though Democrats are only interested in money and power, and only pay lip service to the needs of the people they govern. It’s weird how its done, and how despite the conservative majority there isn’t a single entertainment show or movie that’s geared to this audience. Thank God for the alternative media!

Did any of you people even read the article. He said a tax on mine workers and steel workers only MAYBE.

Realize this, too. EVEN IF the Dems come up with a plan that does not include a middle class tax increase, it will then depend on running massive deficits. “Massive deficits” are the siren song for Dems who will then insist that we must raise taxes lest we perish. So ANY comprehensive health care plan is going to wind up as a tax increase, no matter what The Liar says to the contrary.

I am encouraged that people are starting to see through the haze. I hope everyone realizes how this will play out – if the government puts a tax on companies to pay for this, the companies will simply drop coverage for their employees, who will be left to seek the government plan. Oh, don’t worry, “key” employees will keep nice private coverge, but rest assured if this thing passes the government will be largest healt insurer in the world within 5 years.

Democrats: Tax and Spend, contrived Healthcare “reform”.
Republicans: Fiscally responsible, real Healthcare reform.

I guess it took 1 million+ Americans to march on Washington 9.12.09 for some politicians to do their jobs. I have been disgusted with the liberal media and their reporting of the 9.12.09 march, for their non-reporting of Van Jones and ACORN and their Chavez-like favoritism to Obama and the Democrats. There are more protests and marches to come and they will get bigger and bigger until one day we march into the Capital and throw the bums out.

I was outraged to hear the liberal media and Bill O’Reilly talk about the 9.12.09 march being too white and not enough diversity in the crowd. I think that all those black people who still support Obama, regardless of his failed policies, are the real racists. Most of America is made up of white people and only about 15% black. Why are 99% of them still in the tank for Obama? It must be because he’s black.

Somebody needs to tell Rockefeller that after Cap and Tax, he’s not going to have a coal industry to worry about in WV.

80-85 percent of the people are happy with their health care coverage. SO…….we make 15-20 percent of the people happy, while angering the majority. This makes perfect sense….I’m still wondering how they are saying 47 million are uninsured…That’s right, 12 million are here illegally. 12 million refuse the health care coverage but have the $ to pay for it. 12 million do not renew in time, but have the option…This government is full of lies….amendments against abortion and illegals being included are voted on and quickly rejected but Barak says that they will not be included…why reject the amendments then???????

Maybe the coal miners will pay attention now. How long will it take for California to dump its state workers into ObamaCare if it passes? How long will it be before poor schools dump their teachers into ObamaCare after it passes? How long before cities dump their workers into ObamaCare if it passes? If you think you can ignore this health care debate because you already have insurance, do you trust your boss or can you see being dumped into ObamaCare. Pay attention and think about how this will affect you, ObamaCare is not just for the other guy.

Why don’t we wait and see what the bill actually ends up to be before passing judgment. It has just been introduced and most likely will be amended.
And for those of you who don’t want the health care reform, don’t ruin for the rest of us.
And Ette,
Yes I will be voting Democrat again in the next elections. Do you really think I want someone who only care about the top 1 percent running this country again?
New Republican slogan via Marie Antoinette “Let Them Eat Cake.”

Nothing like paying the bills for someone else. What happens when working people run out of money? The color of this looks RED.

Max Baccus is for the insurance cmpanies. He get millions from insurance comapnies. He should be deprived of his chairmanship. I am a democrat, but will not vote for democrats anymore.

A neighbor stopped by last night and we tried to impress one another with our individual knowledge of the details of the day’s wrangling over health care legislation – what Obama says he is for or against verus what is actually written IN the proposed legislation (and that is all that actually matters). But after dazzling each otgher for some 20 minutes, my neighbor got right to the root of it all. He reiterated what I am not hearing as much about these past few days. IF the Baucus “oompromise” bill is so damn good for America, let all 535 members of the US House and US Senate agree in writing that they will ALL adhere to what it gives all Americans too. No more of this “Do what I say and not what I do” stuff any more.
If Senator Rockefeller and all in his family must live with the Baucus Bill like all the rest of us, he will be far less likely to allow himself to be bought off by some Baucus “deal” that might end up exempting West Virginia miners from the ravages of a painful Fed taxes on health care policies. Dems won the idiotic cap-n-trade House legislation by buying off a few criticaal Dem congressmen with deals. That sucks and it shows how willing congresspeople are to sell out the nation to guaranteee their own local reelection. When all Senators and Congrespeople must live with their own decisions too – we will have eyes looking far more carefully at the impact of bad legislaiton and we will ALL be spared from such Federally-induced madness.
They say “Charity begins at home.” The same should be said for the effects of Federal legislation on Fed legislators too. If they refuse to play by the rules they set, they should not be allowed to set rules for anyone else.

“because the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down”
Ummmm, how many companies in the US refuse to pass down taxes to their customers? Is an old-fashioned corporate income tax lambasted as another tax on the middle class? Only by the greedy who see it as less profits to be paid back to themselves.
Greed and jealousy run rampant today. Greed over grabbing every nickel available, and jealousy that somebody out there will be fed tonight without having a job the complainer managed to have, using a nickel the complainer paid in taxes. I’m getting tired of people deciding that their taxes have to go for stuff THEY might use. “Highway repair 3,00 miles away? Well, maybe I’ll drive there someday, but don’t spend any of MY money on those dirtbags who don’t already have healthcare.”
Knock it off, folks…

FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL:
ACORN, UAW, AFL-CIO, SEIU, ACORN, ORGANIZE AMERICA, TEACHER’S UNION, etc.
Van Jones, Mark Lloyd (the Federal Communications Commission), Wade Rathke (ACORN’s founder and friend to Bill Ayers-aren’t they all? and founder of SEIU) and Steve Rathke (Wade’s brother who stole $1 million from ACORN) and works for SEIU and the Tides Foundation, the APOLLO Alliance with it’s NY office headed by Jeff Jones (a top founding member of the Weather Underground radical organization)… Do I need to go on?!

What is in this health bill? Nobody will tell us, nobody knows, the middle class ALWAYS get the shaft. The poor can’t pay, and the rich can afford it, so they jack up the price on the americans who make too much to get government support, and are not rich and can’t afford the best. The cycle starts all over again and it will NEVER change. Maybee my opinion would be different if they would tell us what the bill is even about.

Why can’t we pay for health care reform the same way the Republicans paid for two wars in the middle east? They felt it was ok to take these expenditures off budget and just borrow the money for our grandchilden to begin paying in about 2050.
If it works for war, why not health care?

We need to applaud moderate to conservative-minded Democrats who think “future”, not just “right now”. A very rare find, indeed.

Wow, did Jay Rockefeller get slapped upside the head by reality? Now, how in the world does Charlie Gibson not know about ACORN? When are you people gonna get out of Obama’s lap and do your jobs?

This march to big government socialism is insane. If this ridiculous bill passes in some form or fashion, creating public health insurance, I say that all of us hard working Americans, who the government takes advantage of (our work ethic, that is) to get taxes to fund their various ventures, simply quit our jobs and go on the public dole. Then let big gov’t figure out where its money will come from!!

Thank you for reporting this. Now what about some other big corruption stories? That after all is the real problem with this ever expanding government.

The whole purpose of this health care package is to re-elect democrats. It’s nothing more complicated than that. The only problem is that the government can’t afford it so they’ll put the burden on the middle class with obscure taxes such as Medicare transfers, excise taxes, and reduction in overall health care. We have to make a BIG statement in the fall of 2010!

From what I can garner from the accounts I have seen so far, If you purchase your insurance individually, you will not be taxed. the tax proposal is on employer to employee plans where the employer is providing all or nearly all of the funds to purchase the insurance. Most people who pay a reasonable percentage of their premiums should not see a tax. Yes, it is true that union members who have been getting their entire health insurance premium funded by their employer will see a tax, but isn’t this one of the things that contributed heavily to the demise of general motors? Everyone wants something for nothing – well, those days are unfortunately over.

If you don’t have health care under this bill, your family will be fined $3,800! Someone tell me where in the Constitution it allows this tyranny.
As for illegals, Obama lies like a dog. 60% of illegals have forged social security cards. He knows this and the DEMarxists are going to look the other way for the future votes from the fence jumpers.

Re distrute the wealth = theft = stealing = immoral = Obama the lier.

LIAR, LIAR LIAR
quotes “You will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime”.
Barack Obama
We need earmark reform, and when I’m President, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely.
Barack Obama
A good compromise, a good piece of legislation, is like a good sentence; or a good piece of music. Everybody can recognize it. They say, ‘Huh. It works. It makes sense.’
Barack Obama

calirangr, No policy should be taxed. I have to agree with Jason no bills should be approved including health care until the corruption in Washington is gone. When the 1st thing Congress does is exempt themselves form participation you know the bill is crap.

IMO the only reason why they are printing this now is because I think something came from above is finally realizing that the majority of the people have caught on to the taxation of all american citizens.
none of these bills have any republican/moderate democrat support. I think congress has realized that their jobs will be on the line if they support these bills. hijack the bill with 51 vote, half of these senators that voted for it will be looking for a new job. middle class america has had enough. time to clean house

America, you are being played for a fool.
Healthcare can be fixed easily. Let health insurers sell in all 50 states. The cost WILL come down. Yes, as much as our Congress does not want to mention this (because most are lawyers) tort reform is a must. If you do not have a job a low cost rate be applied and make it mandatory all those with a pre-existing condition be insured at regular rates. The only reason our existing healthcare is a mess is because of government.
The reason Dems want healthcare taken over by Government is because of more control of our lives and jobs. Healthcare is a huge portion of our GDP

“Families who make less than 250k a year will not see their taxes increased by a single dime”…… Barack Obama 04/15/09

You see?
YOU LIE OBAMA!
LIAR!
OBAMA LIED, MY PAYCHECK DIED!
LIAR!
OBAMA LIED, MY HEALTH INSURANCE DIED!
LIAR!
OBAMA LIED, MY SON’S FUTURE EARNINGS DIED!

Whose policies are most likely to be over $8000?? — Senior citizens between 60 and 65!!!!! — Insurance companies will realize they can still have a policy that SHOULD cost $11,450, just CHARGE $8000, and they still make MORE money on the policy than being taxed!!!! — Too easy to thwart ignorant politicians!!!

Wait a minute I am confused. Did BO say last Wednesday that we are going to get everyone covered, get better care, and it wasn’t going to cost anything?

This is a trial balloon — certainly they won’t be THIS stupid!!!!

Where’s the tort reform? Where’s the portability?This government is incapable of solutions as they ARE the problem.What are they doing meddling in our healthcare,anyway? Who made this bunch of greedy,foolish, pompous,arrogant,party-hacks experts on ANYTHING,but saving their own disasterous political careers?.Sickening.

PEOPLE OF MONTANA!!!!! I thought you had an independent spirit. Why would you allow a man(Baucus) to represent you who is for such a huge gov. tax on you middle class earners in Montana and of course the more massive gov. intrusion into your lives? I don’t believe that is what Montana wants and you should let Baucus know he is not going back to Washington the next election because you have had it with his intrusion mindset into your lives. Vote Baucus out!!!!

If you cap policies at $8000, or they get taxed 35%, you are limiting the amount of profit insurance companies can make on these products — their only recourse is to raise premiums on those UNDER $8,000 to make up the difference — THEN they will not be price competitive with the “public option” (government control) and insurance companies will lose business and go out of business! — Then the government option will be the ONLY option!!!

Why are all the rugged individualists soiling their pants over much needed health reform?
From what I’m reading, it seems all we need to do is reduce taxes for health insurance companies, and toss in a few more million dollar bonuses for their CEOs and all will be well.

Carter left a surplus budjet only to see Reagon leave us in the red.
Clinton left Bush a h-u-g-e surplus only to see Bush suck it all up in a
war he lied to get us in.
Why do we let the rich, like cheny, put their money off shore to avoid taxes? Isent that anti-american?

The logic of taxing health insurance plans to get people to use better judgment in health care usage is absurd. If you want people to exercise judgment, require them to pay more out of pocket for the health care, not for the insurance plan. Human psychology being what it is, the more people pay for a health insurance plan, the more they will feel obligated to get their money’s worth out of it by using it.

Gee, imagine that. ABC acknowledging someone saying something’s not quite right with a proposal related to pushing Dear Leader’s “signature legislation.”
Gee, next thing you know, ABC’s “news” media might — in their own oblique way — admit that “a friend of a friend of a friend said that Obama might be a tad left-of-center.”
Will wonders never cease.
Say, by the way, ABC — didja hear about the ACORN scandal? Where’s the coverage about that huge story? Nothing? No? Not in line with your “agenda”? Hmmmm….

Once we have a government run health care system the government will have a vested, financial interest in older people dying prematurely. How is that possible? you might ask.
It goes like this: Senior citizens use health care dollars more than any other group and they also use social security dollars. Furthermore, they have savings and retirement accounts that, upon their death, get taxed before they get inherited (the death tax). So, if grandma dies, on average, 3 years earlier think of how much the government “makes” in savings on unused Social security and medicare and how much it “makes” in taxing grandma’s retirement.
When the government has a vested interest in your death, you had better watch out.

Glen Beck has it absolutely right! Quarantine Washington D.C. until the corruption is investigated and removed.
No more 1,000 page bills can pass as long as SEIU and ACORN have seats at the table. No more legislation passes as long as Rangel, Reid, Frank, Dodd, Conyers, et al are removed from their chairmanships. These people are corrupt with a capital C.

Our government is completely out of control. The plane has veered off course dramatically while auto pilot has been switched on. Now sparks are starting to fly out of the flight systems. Wake up people and take back control of your government. Remind your representatives they work for you! It’s time to take back control of the plan before auto pilot (gov) flies it straight into the ground. The corruption, special interest, favoritism, and campaign payoffs have got to stop if anything good is to ever come out of D.C. again.

Amazing how the media lets us know that Obama’s approval ratings are going up fast again…
How dumb down has americans gotten?

I find it incredible that just a few months ago Obama declared we are broke…no money. So what does he want to do…pile a helathcare plan on us that will in the estimates of the CBO run at least 1.6 trillion dollars over 10 years. My guess is that is very low ball. On top of that he wants to tax energy so not only will out taxes go up because of health care but energy as well. The talk about big business being run poorly…these guys know how to really run things into the ground.

Wow! Logical posting on an abc blog – I never would have expected this! Where did all the lunatic communists go? Even on Facebook I’ve noticed they’ve suddenly become very quiet. Thank God the people in this country are starting to feel an obligation to speak up before it’s too late.

Medicare and medicaid are underfunded and full of fraud and abuse (according to His Majesty Himself).
So, lets let the same idiots that cant run medicare and medicaid effectively run EVERYONE’S health care.
BRILLIANT!

I know there is an intelligence ‘range’ for police officers so they stay interested in their jobs – but who woulda thought that a range also exists for US Senators. ‘Its gonna cost too much and raise taxes?’ Have these guys been living under a rock the last 10 months?

This whole “reform” debate has been a sham from the get go. How can a $20,000 health plan be seen as reasonable in a country where the median household income is $50k? Real reform would mean lowering these asinine health costs, not forcing everyone to go broke to pay for this totally corrupt system.

This is going to force these people into the public option. See how this is all one big lie from Obama and the Dems.

Rockefeller is an idiot. First, health care reform is a national issue and should be done in the best interest of the entire nation, not in the best interest of any particular state. Whether the Baucus Plan will eventually end up higher premiums and lower benefits on the middle class does not depend on what Rockefeller says but depends on whether the Baucus Plan will eventually drive down the health care costs. If it does, the insurance companies will eventually be able to lower the premiums due to lower claim costs to offset the increase in premiums due to the excise tax. Of course, the moot point is we don’t know whether or not the Baucus Plan will in fact drive down the health care costs and I’ve not heard any good reasons from Baucus that it will.

Yahoo America. You seem to have awakened a little too late. But don’t blame me I didn’t vote for him in the first place. I am interested; What is your next great PC move going to be??

“The tax contemplated by Baucus is also a big revenue raiser. It is expected to raise $200 billion, money that Baucus is hoping to use to pay for subsidies for the uninsured”…
So, let me get this straight…I’m supposed to work harder and pay more income tax to the imperial federal government so I can subsidize someone who doesn’t have insurance? Where does it say in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution that I am obligated to take care of someone else’s insurance or for that matter, food, clothing and shelter? Show me where?

So how does this bill help anyone???
Less care and higher prices and tax
increases. Such a deal. NOT.

Way to go Jay…The right words from the TRUE Democratic party. Stand up against the Chicago way of Things. You all best do it now cause it’s that city that going to get all the money with every other city coming in line after them. If you don’t live in the city, you get nothing. This has NEVER been any other way in the History of Mankind since its inception. Once a power has control, they get more than you and you have less. As long as you believe them, they will take more from you.

Until people have decent paying jobs you can’t fix this problem, They (the congress) have screwed up the economy with NAFTA, trade policy with the Chinese, the banking system/monopoly, and foreign aid to the point that it can’t be fixed anytime soon. There is a series of tough decisions that have to be made and alot of pain before it turns around. I’m not sure that there are enough Americans with the itelligence and the balls to make it happen. This crop of Dems is not going to fix it but the GOP won’t do it either. I though Ron Paul was a nut but it looks like he had the right idea. Where’s Ross Perot when you need him?

Afterthe reform, uninsured will become insured. Insured will become uninsured bcz of the high price/tax. current insured people can not affor the reform price. at least I can not use all my savings to buy the health care.

If you make less than $250,000/ year, there is no problem. Right? Transparency is newspeak of foggy bottom.

The only people that are in favor of this bill are Democrats and the low end of the economic scale that pay no taxes at all. The Democrats are watching the number dependent on handouts grow and are pandering to them. Make more of them and they can keep Democrats in or so they think. The one thing that may happen is these people tend to avoid voting and the Dem plan may backfire. Some Dems actually work for a living and they will learn they are being punished because they are successful. The policy of this administration is to reward failure. It won’t work for long, 2010 should see some real “change.”

I am a 70% Disabled Veteran (US Army) and I have VA health insurace for life and I am also fortunate enough to have private insurance that is really good through my wifes work. I choose to use the private insurance 99% of the time. Due to wait times, seeing a Dr instead of a Nurse Practitioner, and my prescriptions are less with my private insurance than the GOVERNMENT ONE! It takes me longer to see a Dr, and even with the VA’s deal with the drug companies I pay more than private insurance. Not to mention the quality of my care. Yes the VA does a “descent” job but I have mis diagnosed more than once by the VA and to be honest they love to push drugs at me. So I am more for private care due to having both types of insurance and seeing which one treats me better.
I dont think taxes will stay lower. Some how we have to pay for it. Fix the problems we already have with government care (medicare) and then come talk to me the voter.

Question: What do British, French, German, Iranian, Israeli, Saudi, and US Intelligence all have in common?
Answer: They all independently believed Iraq had WMDs prior to the 2003 liberation.
So, crazy Liberals, enough of this “Bush lied about Iraq” garbage. You guys have bee lying for years about abortion — and that’s 50 million people killed since 1973.

Since when has the government ever been competent at running anything other than the military?
The Post office is broke, Amtrak is broke, SS is broke, Medicare is broke, Medicaid is broke. Cash 4 Clunkers was a bust. And now people want the same government to run their health care?

When many Americans will pay $3800 a year for health insurance and another $1800 a year for Cap and Trade and don’t forget the tax on cigarettes, and don’t forget the soda and chip tax which is coming down the pike, and the taxes that are coming and going to hit each one of us will go on, and on, and on…………..Wake up, people, before it is too late!!!!

Since this President tried to push through HR 3200 in TWO WEEKS, without anyone having read the Bill, he has very little credibility left with over half the American people. HR 3200 was just a payoff for his beloved UNION officials who help put him in office. Very few people know that the Bill would have forced every health care worker in the nation to be under the thumb of the Union.
Obama has squandered the trust he had with We the People!

Just keep it up! the midterms are right around the corner and you guys are getting egg on your faces; everybody by now that voted for “hope & change” has seen all of what that entails, and you guys (a whole bunch of you) are going to be out of a job come 2010…..

Rockefeller is white. Hence, this is all about racism.

Face it… when the government taxes big business, YOU pay for it in higher prices. When ANY politician says he won’t tax YOU, just the guy behind the tree… don’t believe it!
We need a thriving economy to earn more so WE can buy it…. whenever you ask government to buy something for you with someone else’s money, you end up paying for it in poorer service, higher prices, lost opportunities for you or your children, etc. ….and you pay the salaries of all those politicians to boot!

YOU LIE YOU LIE YOU PANTS ON FIE

OK, let’s not be forgetful folks, Obama promised to redistribute wealth in the USA and that is exactly what he is doing. This means he will work this concept into every piece of legislation he does, bailouts, healthcare, etc. You get what you pay for!

Joe “YOU LIE” Wilson for El Presidente

I agree 100% with Bob C
The Democrats cannot help themselves. Let them pass “healthcare reform” on their own and then let them experience the wrath of voters.
The best way to “fix” healthcare is to allow the purchase of policies across state lines, to implement tort reform, to make sure private options for catastrophic coverage are available, and to allow a tax deduction for the policies purchased by individuals.

These steps would make a big difference and get the key objectives accomplished (i.e., uninsured insured and low costs – lawyers are killing us).

None of this is really a Surprise is it ….The Blind Leading the Blind..
In reference to an above comment about this being ABC have you heard the one about Acorn….Funny YOU should mention that ABC Banned me MY IP and Email from Posting on there normal comment links because I kept Asking Why they were Ingnoring the Acorn Story on other Story Line Comment Fields….Well I really did not have much Choice since ABC had not one Single Story on Acorn even after the Senate Voted to suspend their Funding……TOO Funny….NO Matter I have Several IP’s to choose from and email accounts are a dime a dozen

Oh sure allow insurance purchases across state lines. That way the Insurance companies can run to the states with the least consumer protection and rip off customers in the states who do have protections. Puh…lease this tired BS has got to go. If all states will provide uniform consumer protections then this could work.
And didn’t you people ever watch School house Rock. First comes the bill. It has to be discuss,debated. Amendments will be offered.Why can’t people just relax and work towards the best possible plan.
And BTW
Only when and If “The President Of The United States” signs a bill it not his plan.
Why so much hate? Our is that a silly question?

Rockefeller must be a racist! Censure him!!!

Read my lips: “No new taxes.” Applies to Obama, too!

Isn’t it about time that Democrats start bolting away from Obama on this issue? Shouldn’t “the media” start asking this question, “just how long will the Dems stick with a President experiencing the most rapidly dropping approval numbers in recent memory?”
Otherwise they will go down with him in flames, just 2 years earlier than he. It’s obvious that clear thinking, self sufficient, self reliant Americans DON’T WANT THIS CRAP. I understand that the do nothing, have nothing, want nothing populace is all for it…but then again aren’t they always? Run Away Dems, run away!

Heretic!

I think at this point, no matter what the Senate tries to pass for health care reform,the people’s trust have already been seriously violated. They will not trust anything put forward by this administration or the current senators. I am not sure if the damage is reversible.

You can tell when Drudge post something on his site. All the right wing nuts come out. Forget it boys this bill is going to pass!!!

So this amounts to Health Insurance costing $3.85 an hour ($8,000/year). I have a collective bargaining agreement out in front of me that shows my employer paying $5.26 for Health insurance. What a wonderful way to punish employers who give a crap about workers’ health!

Mr. Rockefeller is simply doing his job–watching out for his constituents and others. And the process is moving forward with an up/down committee vote. This is the time to critique the bill which Rockefeller just received for review. Remember, this is 1 of 6 congressional committees, each coming up with their own bill that will be reconciled in a joint House-Senate committee which will produce the final bill for a full House and Senate vote.

Didn’t somebody say something about deficit neutral? Or maybe it was NO NEW TAXES on the middle class? NO DEATH PANELS..just a gubmnt healthcare “panel” who will ration?
NO ILLEGALS..oh they did change that after Wilson called him a l…
Sorry, I’m confused, I’m SCARED, I’m WORRIED…NOW I’M JUST PLAIN MMMAAAAADD!

Who’d a thunk it? It’s what the democrats always do!

The really sad part is lowered care for the eldery. Are we going to be like the UK? Older people with out care. Left to die with no care. Your farther and mother to die with no care. Disabled people left to die becase lack of health care. Ever tone over the age 65 is not needed now. No one will get to retire as they have distroyed the pension plans. SS at 70?

Sure why not imbed 35% on those high premiom returns, but require employers to deduct the increase from employees wages, This will pass along this cost to those Government workers, congressman, and labor union leaders. and not be born by the other policee holders as the Incurance companies must pass this cost on.

Sorry aboutmy spelling errors caused by haste!

If healthcare reform is so important how come every proposal I see does not start for four years? Curious.

It keeps getting more and more incredulous!
LEAVE MY HEALTHCARE ALONE!!
Fix whats wrong with healthcare, don’t destroy it for everyone!
You know I watched the VMA awards last Sunday (you know, the one where Kanye showed his fanny) and the idiot Brit MC made the comment “In Britain, we don’t let people die on the sidewalk…we have FREE healthcare”..FREE? How can it be FREE when they pay 50% percent of their wages in taxes? FREE healthcare?
This article shows you just how free it will be…it’s not free for hardworking taxpaying families..along with the idiotic “cap and trade” tax, it won’t be long before OUR tax rate will be 50% as well. 2010 and 2012 can’t come fast enough. Let’s vote these tax and spend liberals OUT!!
By the way ABC…hear anything about ACORN? I hear they’ve been in the news lately….

Whoa….lib posters! Where are you?????????

Jayyyy, not to worry, Obama is going to close down all your coal mines – your coalminers will all be on welfare – and they will all qualify for medicaid – and the ones that get too expensive get the needle!

I am a democrat and Obama is the most incompetent democrat so far I have seen in office in recent times. At least Clinton knew it was about the economy!!
I am for single payer and this bill he has up there is simply ludicrous!! It cost MORE, raises taxes, doesn’t cover everyone and STILL leaves loopholes for insurance companies. How in the hell has he manage to create a bill that neither the left or the right like one bit and still insists on trying to shove it through right now. The kicker is it won’t “go through” till AFTER the 2012 election process and he will surely run saying “I got healthcare reformed and I the great Obama am the only one who could do it.” Mind you this will be BEFORE everyone has had a chance to see how crappy this plan is and really see how much they dislike it and how little it has changed or helped anything. Obama loves to run on things that are wordy but, without a lot of substance.
He should have waited. American’s need time to work on the economy first and they are scared about it. He is shoving too much through too fast and scaring the daylights out of people.
Thirdly, single payer HR676 is easy to explain, would SAVE MONEY from what we have now and would work. But ohhhh nnooo. He didn’t want that because then he couldn’t get his “promise” and pay to play with the pharmco companies. He pandered so well to them that even Bush didn’t give them such a sweet deal. Your drugs under Obama care will actually cost MORE.
How in the hell does one man screw up so badly. You remember how he made sooo much fun of those with “experience” saying they were dinasaurs etc…well, guess what??? When the country is fighting in two wars, the economy is in the tank and health care really needs fixing all at the same time, the experience sure as hell would have come in handy right now.
First we got Bushco and now we have Obamaco. God help us all.

KUDOS to this Senator for standing up for his constituency, albeit his constituency also consists of folks who would benefit from this plan as well. But I can appreciate his stance for what it is.

Well…Sen. Rockefeller must be a racist! Since he’s standing in the way of that train wreak of a president we have. Dang, and everyone thought GW was bad! Makes him look like a saint now.

Posted by Jason | Sep 16, 2009 8:20:24 AM: “Can we still trust the government???”
Answered by Ivan | Sep 16, 2009 5:39: 00 PM: Not just “NO”, but “HELL NO”!!
Ivan

Obama lied about taxing the middle class? Naw, it can’t be.

Brilliant plan. Lets make health care more affordable by adding a hefty tax to it, thus making it more expensive.
Stop listening to these liars and con artists.

WHAT!?!?!?!
you mean we have to PAY for this?
well, that changes everything…..

I’m glad to see some people are finally looking at the facts and not party lines. If you have a Kindle you can get a copy of H.R. 3200 (not the Baucus bill) at Amazon.com and read it.

Thank you all who voted for this communist in chief. I just got through reading where Obama’s Cap and Trade bill will cost the average American home an extra $1,700 a year. So add that on to whatever health insurance taxes you’ll now have to pay so that ACORN members will get handouts. If you still think that Obama and many of the dems are pro union, then you deserve what you get.
I especially like that this Dem. Baucus wants to ‘fine’ familes who are not willing to sign up to buy health insurance, up to $3,800 per family per year. I’ve been out of work for a year now and if I had an extra 300 to 400 bucks a month to spend I’d be buying a more reliable car, rather than being strong armed into taking part in the Dems health scheme that will help bankrupt America.
Come soon Lord Jesus, and leave those who refused to serve you to the wrath of Obama, and his minions the Demonicrats.

When elected leaders anywhere in the world run roughshod over the people they are supposed to be looking out for……………..Oh darn! Since we no longer have freedom of speech in the U.S., I can’t finish typing my thoughts!

ABC is much too busy investigating RACISM by ALL who oppose Obama. They don’t have time for the endless stories of ACORN and corruption by various members of this administration! So what if these stories are true! Facts don’t matter!

lets face it all the little people ARE
!! SCREWED !!

Calm down people. It is only one of several bills going through the process. This one was put out by Sen. Max Baucus. The process involves scrutiny, compromise and adjustments. Everyone (Repubican, Democrat,and Independent alike) is supposed to “rip” into the bill. It is how our system works. No one is trying to “screw” the American people except the insurance industries because that is their job; make as much money as possible. As for all you anti-government people out there. I would be happy to compare our government created programs such as the Federal Highway System, Center for Disease and Control, NASA, Police and Court Systems, Fire Fighters, Education, Medicare, Peace Corps, Ameri Corps, Social Security, Park Services, Public Attorney System, The Military, Original GI Bill (returned 7 dollars for every dollar the government spent), Veteran Services, Postal System, and National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, just to name a few, and compare it to our private industries any day. Although no government program is perfect, when you compare them to the likes of Bear Sterns, AIG, Lehman Brothers, Citigroup, GMAC, GMC, Chrsler, Enron, Blackwater, Sprint/Nextel, and the like (the list goes on and on)it makes one realize how scary life would be without government getting involved once in a while. Our government can fix the current Health care system. They have come up with some pretty good programs in the past and they can do it again. It is a messy process, but it works.

Even though Obama knew in NOVEMBER, he just released to Congress TODAY that the cap & trade bill would raise prices for the average family $1,700+ per year.
Remember how we were LIED to when they said it would only cost as much as a Postage Stamp per day? LOL!
NOW THIS!
Who bought the NO Taxes pledge? I didn’t and I knew he’d break it right away.
Were you suckered?
Remember, politicians LIE

If you oppose ANYTHING Obama wants, you’re a racist… Especially healthcare.
I guess I was a sexist when I opposed HillaryCare?
Idiots!

I have not been impressed with much that has come out of the “gang of six”. I remain unimpressed. Now what, in heaven’s name, would make these six people think that a 35% tax on insurance companies for plans that are similar to what Congress already gets would keep insurance costs low? I truly believe in insurance reform. Insuring those at greatest risk needs to be spread over all insurance companies. Having more insured people will make hospitals more solvent (they are hurting now due to millions of uninsured). And the Republicans can scream about “illegal aliens” being insured all they want (and apprently they won’t be), but who do they think is going to absorb the cost of treating ALL people who seek emergency care. If the government does not help, that just means the hospitals have to absorb that cost. Of course, most hospitals would be satisfied to do that because a health reform bill would result in more insured , and thus more revenue. Hospitals are hurting because most US insurance is employer based, and the US is looking at 10-20% unemployment rates. And what government programs are these “cuts” going to come from? Medicare and the VA have already been “cut to the bone”. So far, I don’t like Mr. Bauckus’ proposal at all.

The young should heed warning to what is happening and what the liberal Dems,are proposing. Practically every penny they earn, will go into health plan and social taxes,for welfare, for congressmen and womene, who are living off the hog. There is so much tax money floating around that it is difficult to tell where and who is spending it. Where is the transparency, where is the regulations, who is in charge of this money that no one can account for. Yet there is plenty of money for the ruling class to spend, get fat, buy new suits,eat at fancy restuarants, dating,and vacations, yet we the hard working American People are paying for the perks, with the sweat off our backs. We cannot spend, go on vacation or enjoy a good resturant, because we have to pay our taxes, and survival expenses. Oh boy! the new ties, WOW!!!We should ask a hard question i.e. Mr. President can you garantee that you will not raise Taxes, Can you guarantee that you will not pay for illegals, Can you guarantee, that you will not use taxes to abort children? but I don’t hear anyone asking these questions.
As far as that old funny man Carter, the biggest Southern ham there can be. He is jealous of Obama, the reason he probably injected race into this is because what he said is exactly the way he feels. He’s an old southern whiteman or is he? What is he? He just wants to make trouble for Obama, I am of color and I have more respect for Obama instead of Carter the worst President in the USA.

CONGRESS: MONEY DOES NOT GROW ON TREES, NOR WISDOM IN BILLS! Your lack of “smarts” is REALLY showing.

there is going to be a big tax on any bill and we are all going to pay.thought you were gonna get for free eh? not even in canada.

This is exactly the way costs get passed down to taxpayers in the most surreptitiously masked way possible. Do you think Obama believes his own rhetoric when he tells us that “I promise you not one dime of taxpayer money will be used to pay for this” new healthcare program? Let’s hurry up and pass it because until healthcare is reformed, he tells us, the economy will never be stable. Then today Bernanke tells us the recessions is over. This is exactly the kind of confused, convenience-inspired rhetoric we should expect in election year. God help us all, and hopefully the sleepers will finally awaken.

Redistribution is not a great method to create prosperity. Taking money out of the pockets of hard working people to subsidize the uninsured is not going to encourage hard work and productivity.

Rockerfeller is just speaking the truth. I have interviewed people in WV. The jobs in the mines are terrible, but other jobs there pay almost nothing. These people are old at 50. They need expensive health care just to survive. You do realize that when someone is declared disabled by social security, he is not eligible for Medicare for 2 years. These peoples health insurance is expensive because they suffer from poor health, not because they get great benefits.

I did not notice Rockefeller express concern over the “big, big, tax” on coal miners that Cap & Trade would level upon them.
Rockefeller snubbed his constituents by holding a secret, exclusive health care town hall this Sunday in Morgantown, West Virginia. He asked the county Senior Center (that has recently had serious ethical challenges) to invite ten senior citizens to a round table discussion. It was closed to the public and indications are that the press received late notification.
Rockefeller had been invited to our August 22nd town hall, but ignored the invitation. He did not show up, and has not responded to any communicaitons.
Had he shown up, he might have heard our concerns the payroll tax penalties of HR 3200 would lead to coal miners employed by large companies being dumped into the public option because 8% of payroll might be less than gold plated healthcare benefits!

There’s something about the lack of a father figure growing up which results in boys growing up to be democrats (i.e., clinton, obama). If they had a father figure, they would’ve learned to first take care of themselves (getting an education and a job), so that they can support their own families – instead of voting democrat so that government can pay their living expenses.
Women – they were raised as girls to learn to spend their future husband’s money, so I can understand why a majority of them want taxpayer paid health care (i.e., spending other people’s money).
“Men” who support govt paid health care must be liberals (not real men).

So tired of being told what is best for everyone. It’s not up to the government. It is my choice to have or not have health care, and to devote my money to it as I see fit. I make little money, and spend it wisely. Why should someone who cannot do those things get a free pass? if so, then screw it, I’ll quit working, sit around watching soaps all day, and live off the government too. Why the hell not?

If it weren’t so pathetic, it would be funny listening to a Rockefeller, of all people, worry about the “middle class”. What is worse about this BS plan is that the “uninisured” consist of a small number of people making over $100k per yr, a large number of younger workers who have simply opted out of health insurance (because no plan is tailored for them) and then about 1/4 of the uninsured are illegals.
What is the real issue that would help the uninsured? Portability. Which is a bipartisan issue and is never discussed in the “debate”.
I guess Jay has figured out that this dog won’t hunt and the Senate Dems better find a way to bail out of this and let the idiots libs in the House do something.

Obama lies about almost everything. The House and Senate care only about themselves. So we’re screwed- until 2010!

MEDICAID should be ABOLISHED. As long as there is FREE Medicaid, the unemployed are better off financially than if they had jobs and free health.
If they no longer could get Medicaid, they might be tempted to go out and take a job, any job no matter how it isn’t their ideal job.
It is wrong for those taking unemployment benefits to refuse a job because it is less pay than they were making or that the job is farther away from where they work.

Time for, “Viva la revelution”. Take back our country. Either that or let the banks bail US out for a change…

You think this will hurt WV – wait until Cap’n Tax kicks in.
We have seen nothing yet.

Actually I am against Obamacare, just because President Obama is black. It is as simple as that according to Jimmy Carter. Never mind that I was against it when Bill Clinton tried to ram it down our throats and never mind that I am against ANY MORE NEW SPENDING programs that we can’t afford.

now you libs fianlly see the truth
the health plan will be at the expense of the middle class who will get worse care behind acorn members, and will lose jobs and income..this is not REFORM, it is robbery and destruction of the middle class
wake up obama is a fraud..un lover..possible anti christ
cb

Hypothesis. So companies drop their health care. The government doesn’t get its money. But the gov’t, having mandated that everyone must be covered, those formerly insured folks are forced to either buy their own or go the public option. If they buy their own, they won’t be buying cadillac. They can’t afford that. If they go public option – where’s the money going to come from? Where are the doctors and nurses going to come from? Is this a case of falling right back to a 1900 level of care? Great.

As Flounder would say, “Oh boy! Is this great!” They’re gonna eat their own!

Just bend over! This won’t hurt a bit!!

A tax on the middle class. What next, maybe Charlie Gibson will KNOW something about this and tell us.

Yeah, tax me more, make me work harder to support those who won’t and don’t…

Charles Gibson of ABC said he ignored the tea party in D.C this past Saturday, he said he did this on purpose, he couldn’t bear to watch it. I was at that gathering of 1.7 million people and we knew and Congress knew we were there here’s proof: health care is dead on arrival,ACORN is being investigated and their money cut off by the Senate,Obama is using the race card which is the last card in the deck, Obama’s polls are dropping everyday. And what does ABC do,nothing but play catch up and talk about how racist anyone is just for being against Obama’s policies. I haven’t watched ABC since the Clinton days. Hopefully this will seal the coffin on you blood suckers and you go broke: nobody is listening to you. (The only reason I heard that about Gibson was because it was on GLEN BECK.)

if the story breaking on ACORN gets by the senators,
the reps, ABC, etc. stop all legislating and clean
up all the corruption first……..it may take the entire
term of POTUS…though that would be his greatest legacy…….clean up corruption……don’t add to it.

These foolish Democrats all need to be voted out in the mid-terms. They are bringing this country to it’s knees.

No new taxes on the middle class? Hey, Obama — you lie!

Hardly a good idea that they ever come up with. They always prove their contempt of the middle class. Oh yes, that’s right, there must be a quite a few in the middle class struggling to hold onto their homes! Let’s not stand for that!!! Tax em, take their homes, then maybe their young kids can end up in foster homes like during the Great Depression.

If you don’t like the fact that NBC/MSNBC/CNBC don’t report the Acorn scandal, don’t buy one single GE product EVER! Don’t patronize ABC/CBS by watching their channels or listening to their radio stations! And, if they own other companies, don’t purchase what they own! And stick to it until they fire all the execs and anchors and hire some real news people who will dig and report the facts, whatever they are!

We had the the easy low Interest debacle when the economy was already over produced, pleasure vehicle debacle, realestate debacle. Now we are getting ready for the Max Baucus health care debacle. If it get through, the middle class will fall like realestate prices. Who will we get to fix that. Rush Limbaugh? Ha,Ha.

When the President ask Congress to com up with a Health care bill and he did not have a input or even any of his staff come up with a bill to me that said it all. Give the democrates everything , you get everything

Bachus, Rockefeller, Waxman, Markey, Rangel, Pelosi, et al… Vote’em all out. Never ran a business, never had a real job, clueless about what a true free market economy can accomplish…their only energy policy is to reduce our supplies and raise our cost. They refuse to implement policies that have always worked in the past such as cutting government spending, lowering taxes, deregulating the economy… Throw them all out and only vote for ones that pledge to return us to the constitutionally limited government that made this country the envy of the world. When our government becomes so financially irresponsible as to give millions of OUR tax dollars to a corrupt organization such as ACORN, it’s time to throw them all out and start over. Any honest simpleton could do a better job than the drones named above, and they are just the tip of the iceberg.

Let me get this right, Baucus wants to provide health insurance for people who can not afford it, he wants to change the laws to allegedly protect people who have health insurance if they leave, loose or change job. But if you have and can afford the best health insurance, he wants to punish you with a tax. Folks is this whole health insurance thing really about helping the under do or is it about raising revenue.

Is Health Care Reform Constitutional?
The administration seems to be operating under a distorted version of the Commerce Clause that has been grossly misinterpreted over the years as allowing the feds to regulate and control just about everything. In United States vs. Lopez in 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Congress can only regulate human activity that is truly commercial at its core. One does not go to a doctor to engage in commercial activity. The Supreme Court has specifically rejected the idea that Congress can regulate noneconomic activities simply because through a chain of collective events they might have some impact down the road.

The Worlds Coming to an End, The Worlds Coming to an End, Oh My, What Shall We Do, yada, yada, yada.
Ever notice that most every neo-con rant (including the ones here) circles around the same old mantra?

Is this where we’re suppose to act surprised? I seem to remember a promised tax cut. Maybe Wilson was right ….. You lie!

Where is any story on ACORN?

i think it is a ‘race’ issue. aren’t the miners mainly anglo? ask carter. he will preach on prejudice, pretending he, too, has followers.

I guess this free ride will end up with all of us in the windshield.

People…how the hell do you think TARP’s gonna be paid for? Sur, maybe of us were against us, and I personally thought we shoulda let the banks fairl. Sure, it woulda made things worse in the short term, but I seriously think that it would have been better in the long term. As is, there’s no way out of taxes, so get used to it. it’s how our government runs and if you believe anyone within the political machine when they say no higher taxes, then you need to seriously share what you’re smoking with the rest of the class

Does this mean that members of congress will be taxed because they have a generous health plan? All snarkiness aside Tricare might be considered a generous health plan also, setting up the possibility for service members to be taxed accordingly.

Hmmmm, has anyone looked at who Bacus’ big contributors are….look at opensecrets.org, it ain’t Montana cattle ranchers. HMO’s + unions = big time $$ for the Dems. All those exported jobs are taking their toll. Perhaps we should export Congress as well.

Let me get this straight … here is offer … you can start this new business …. you will be insuring people who can’t pay you … and you’ll have to provide insurance to all with no consideration for economics and risk profiles … and you can’t make any money on this … but we’ll still charge your competitors a fee and force them to meet your prices… WOW … what a sound investment opportunity … you’ve got to be kidding America …. Signed,
China and all those other foreigners who are funding America these days.

Excellent blog and very informative indeed keep up the good work. http://hubpages.com/hub/fishing-tackle-review then click on other hubs by thor6 to read the rest.

The Democrats say we should have compassion and let the gov’t insure those 46 Million Un-Insured.
Well, that’s not compassion, that’s highway robbery.
Besides, I have to balance my cheekbook every month. Why does the Gov’t insist on running a deficit.

Here we go again – tax – tax – and more taxes – must be the Democrats are in power – also taking away our freedom – and they say NOT – LOL

RAltiere, you are so wright, but do
not for get if this Health BS passes
it will be mandatory to have and
you will be find if you do not.
The IRS will not care if your unemployed they will take what ever
you have to get paid. just like they
do now. this is Obuma jack booths.

Uh, sheeple. Make health insurance illegal. Cost drops to market rates. End limits, FED imposed, on the number of Doctors and hospitals per square mile. All academically qualified people are allowed to go into the market and function. End repetitive 17 year patents for drugs. Allow consumers to outsource their pharmacy purchases to the lowest cost country. For 99.9999 percent of pharmacy needs, americans can get the same meds, in mexico, all of which (including currently purchased in the US) were made in puerto rico, but cost only 1-15% of what is charged in the US. Allow nurses to perscribe, wow, now the cost of getting the perscription is reduced by another 2/3s.
Allow self diagnosis, and self care.
DO NOT perpetuate the insurance gambling scheme.
But I am afraid american people are just too stupid to recognize that health insurance, IS NOT health care.
Health care is cheap, health insurance makes it expensive.

Senator Rockefeller is correct about the taxes going up but he didn’t mention that the single payer government run system he favors would do exactly the samething!
All these fools in business who think the Government plan would cut their cost of doing business are naive.
When you open the door for this Socialist mess you will give Congress the “go ahead” to raise taxes on business and individuals anytime they want to fund “YOUR” healthcare.
This is going on everywhere in World that they have Nationalized healthcare right now!

Awfully quiet from the Obama lovers…

When you tax the middle class, you take from everyone, rich, poor, and middle class, because the rich are rich from the pockets of the middle class, and the people with lower income jobs such as restaurant workers, retail, hotel workers etc. don’t do well, because the middle class are busy trying to survive.
Are Baucus’s rich friends going to solve the problem? I think not!

Assuming a high cost health insurance policy is high benefit is just stupid. High risk people pay more for standard health insurance policies, because of the risk, not because of the benefits. Under Baucus’ plan, people in high risk occupations, or those who are at higher risk for health problems, will face punishing taxes, despite the fact that they aren’t rich, aren’t receiving any “gold-plated” benefits. It’s just stupid to do this to those people.

This is why people do not want Gov Health Care. Obama can stand up and say a Old Bush Line, “NO NEW TAXES” but in the end there is noother way to pay for it other then tax the middle class on up. You can’t spend that much money and expect that there isn’t going to be a tax. The sad part is around 70-80% of people like there Health Care, and don’t want the Gov. hands in it. Wait and see people. This isn’t like that Failed Pres Carter says, “People don’t like what Obama is doing because he is black” No! It’s because this plan will tax us to death. Then we also have to look at Cap and Trade…but that is for another time.

Barry S – But that is the point. It is designed to bring in a far less than intended amount of revenue because the actual intention is to kill off the private insurance companies so the liberals can pass socialized medicine down the throats of millions of Americans who vehemently do not want socialism in their country.

One thing you can count on…..you can’t satisfy everyone!

Let’s see, what is worse, a tax on the middle class or a middle class that loses even more jobs? If this hellish health care reform goes through (in whatever form) and the “rich” get taxed out the wazoo, unemployment will skyrocket. So, I as ask again, is it better to spread out the cost a bit or to send out more pink slips? Class warfare is not the answer.

Well, well. The only aim of government is to grow government. That anyone is helped – like by ACORN – is secondary. But the goose laying the golden eggs is on oxygen (not paid for by the gov’t.) and even Democrats can see that sometimes.

Look for an amendment exempting union members or those under union contracts from this provision

Jay has to kiss coal miner butt- they’re his biggest supporters. Believe it or not Jay, Miners aren’t the only people in WV who will be hurt by this. I remember during the Clintons’ attempt at this when you said ‘we are going to push this legislation through regardless what the people want’.

Hehe… This bill is going to die and every Democrat who isn’t safe is using this bill to say, “see. I won’t vote for something that won’t work for my constituents.” Of course this is after they supported it 100% and then got hammered by their constituents.

COMPASSION ????? Let’s see now. Food stamps, government housing, welfare checks, more checks for more babies, medicaid … more checks, checks and more checks. I show compassion every other Friday when I get paid.

Just three more years.. Just three more years for Obama
Just one more year for Congress.

But… but… Obama has said this, that, or the other thing so Obama would never, ever distort or manipulate the truth…. right? /left-wing media.

Duh! How does any one think that any program designed and implemented by government will not cost us a lot of money? Why do you think health care, cap and trade and all these liberal programs are planned? It’s not to help us, the country or the world and it never was intended to do that. These programs are designed as an excuse to take more money from the tax payer now and in the future. Follow the money trail how do you think lefty’s get wealthy it certainly is not by producing anything constructive that’s why they gravitate to the government free lunch pale. Well I take that back they do produce a lot of heart ache and grief. Let’s stop kidding ourselves there is only one reason for all these programs and that is money and power…you and I mean nothing to these people.

CNN has been reporting on ACORN but only from the view “Gee, you should be really careful about amateur investigators since they can get in real trouble for violating peoples rights. Let’s not rush to judgement about ACORN.” Bug off, CNN!!!

Just another example of how politicians–any politicians–will flip on any issue when their political lives are hanging in the balance. But didn’t the media tell us labor unions were all supporting “health care reforem”? Well, according to Rockefeller, coal miners are either ignorant, uninformed or both.

This looks like a good cop, bad cop thing.
Rockefeller wants to not tax too much while Baucus wants to tax quality healthcare.
Taxes in a recession? Excuse me?!
This is not the time or place for taxes…

When Americans get caught up in populist movements that offer nothing but “hope” and “change” they fail to hear important statements like, “We are five days from fundamentally transforming America.” Or, “I will be including you (ACORN and SEIU) in the policy decisions of the next presidency of the United States of America.” You reap what you sew. Next time, let’s pay better attention. In the meantime, no public health care, no cap and trade, and no card check. Oh, and can we stop the runaway spending and printing money we don’t have and…

“Referring to Baucus, Rockefeller said, “He should understand that (his proposal) means that virtually every single coal miner is going to have a big, big tax put on them because the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down and lower benefits…”
The real news flash here is that a politican finally admitted that taxes on businesses get passed on to individuals!

Just what we need- another failure. The government has had years to fix Medicare and Medicaide, yet falied to do so.
The government has had years to fix Social Security and has failed to do so.
Now, they want to saddle us with another failure.
It’s about time the government was changed-drastically

“If you make under @250,000 dollars per year, you won’t see your taxes go up one dime.” – Barack Obama
That’s going to be his “Read my lips – no new taxes” moment. Enjoy it while it lasts, Obamacrats. It isn’t going to last long. Don’t worry, America. You have the power to CHANGE BACK.
See you all in 2010 and 2012.

What’s new…we all know that when you throw 300 billion dollars at congress and the nut cases running all over the country jumping up and down and protesting GOOD HEALTH CARE PLANS, that Bacus has to be in the pocket of Health and Drug Companies. This is the most stupidist bill to ever come out of congress. BUT, people remember, the republicans are the ones that he catered to when he wrote the bill. So this is the type of thing you would get from republicans….they don’t want health care. They don’t want to do anything for the general public UNLESS it benefits health and drug company.

My company is getting ready to hit us with another Insurance premium hike and all this Bill will do is force them to make me pay more. Who do they think is going to have to make up the additional cost? Tax my insurance plan and you tax me!
This is nothing more than a socialistic approach at making us all dependent upon the government, which is what they are all driving for anyway! They hope that the insurance premiums will go so high that we’ll be forced to take the government healthcare plan…and then they win.

this stinks…they keep trying to steal our money so they can give it to the folks who will not work. I am sick of it; I am having trouble paying my bills as it is…they want to tax my health insurance, tax my soda/snacks, tax my energy (as BO said “electricity costs will skyrocket”.) I am going to be bankrupt…just leave me alone…I do not need or want big stinking Gov’t. BACK OFF!!!!!!

BO has got to GO!!!!

Proof that some folks cant see the forest….
if the 35% excise tax goes through…those employing the coal miners are going to
1.pass the cost on to the worker which means he now loses money out of his pocket.
2. Give the worker some money and send him to the public exchange when the union contract expires. Hopefully he or she will find a plan as good as the one he had under the contract.
The coal miners have literally bled when it comes to the benefits they have today. Just remember when 2013 rolls around it was your labor union bosses, Obama and the Dems in Congress that crapped on you and the union label.

Why is this a surprise, when all know that like crap and trap and much of whatever this administration has for a agenda is nothing more than a power grab accompanied by all kinds of taxes, mandated, back doored and hidden. These people are growing their government, making a nest for this tribe of libs to exist unnoticed for years to come and lay in land mines for the next round in the future. For a administration with a uncredentialed shill as it’s mouth piece I’d say they have high hopes.

Want to stop this nonsense? STOP PAYING YOUR TAXES!!!! $$$ is all Washington understands. 46% of the country did NOT vote for this gangster. That is too many to put in prison! Make a difference, take a stand! You can give lip service all day long, but until you DO something about this, it will not change.

Wait wait I got it! They raise taxes on those getting benefits (and probably making less than $250k)so that we’ll use the services less thereby increasing the quality of health care so that more people will be covered but less people will go to the doctor for a trivial colds, swine flu, minor infections and migraines. Instead we can sit at home more because the tax burden on the middle class will have finally risen to a level of imbalance so severe that there is no disposable income and the camels back has finally been broken. I wonder if the vet will be able to help the poor beast….

Don’t worry about that Coal Miner Dudes…after Obama and the dems pass Cap and Trade you’ll be out of a job anyway! So no worries about taxing your health plan when you’re under the new government run option.

If we sent the troops home today we could afford health care for everyone for free…….fact

Considering that the Obama administration aspires to eliminate the domestic coal industry, Senator Rockefeller’s concern over maintaining health benefits for West Virginia’s coal miners seems a bit short sighted.

Yes, wasn’t that the plan to begin with…it was to distribute all the wealth of the rich..and you know, Hollywood people have all their lawyers so they don’t get hitched (pay high taxes) so who is left, we, the middle class…so then we barely make it…Well, we can think who??? You guess!!! Tax increase by our lovely government. Thanks a lot.

It is so nice to see a Dem actually having the stones to step up and say this ain’t gonna work for my constituents. That is what a representative is supposed to do, whether it is in their personal interest or not. I am sure any dissension in the ranks is met with some serious smackdown by the party leadership.
As a nurse, I can only say: universal healthcare will only make us all universally poor.

Dictionary Definition of “bribe”  
“–noun 1. money or any other valuable consideration given or promised with a view to corrupting the behavior of a person, esp. in that person’s performance as a public official, ”
Accordingly, Senator Max Baucus, who took $2 million from insurance companies to influence his vote on the public option should be charged with bribery, and if convicted, should be sent to prison.

“nobody making less than $250K per year will see 1 cent of tax increase ever” . We will see if Obama lied again.

I’d like to see some comments about HOW to obtain good health coverage for all. Even those of us with insurance know that insurance often appears to be an obstacle to good care (e.g., making us wait for the MRI, making us try the cheap drugs before the good ones, etc.), and most of us have very little choice in what type of insurance we get, AND the cost of insurance has gone way way up this past year. There are some unnecessary middlemen (insurance companies) getting rich off our illnesses and driving up the cost of health care peforming unnecessary services. This is so wrong.

ABC, NBC, and CNN must think that they are Venezuela. You won’t be shut down for actually covering the news like Acorn and what this health care plan will really cost and do. Or is it that you have your own left wing agenda and the democrats can do no wrong.

THE TRUST IS GONE… SAY NO NO NO TO OBAMA AND HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN AND THE BAUCUS PLAN HELL NO… NO to government health care plans this is my vote.Also the government seems to think we work for them NOT THEM WORKING FOR US.We pay them and so far they just seem to be ignoring “WE THE PEOPLE” and if you ignore your boss you get fired. I think its time to deliver those pink slips to the government and the president telling them your fired. I am NOT a Republican. or Democrat. I am a AMERICAN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

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