Finance Fireworks – Cutting Benefits vs. a Govt. Takeover
EmailMy ABC colleague Z. Byron Wolf reports:
Tempers flared this morning as the Senate Finance Committee continues to slog through its mark up of a sweeping health care reform bill.
Sen. Max Baucus, who chairs the Finance Committee, and is anxious to pass a bill on to the Senate floor as soon as possible so that Democrats can enact health reform this year, cut off Sen. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz, the number two Republican in the Senate, accusing him of delaying and called for a vote on an amendment – one of more than 500 that have been offered to the bill – after 45 minutes of debate.
"I am not delaying. I am making an extremely important point," Kyl shot back.
"I don’t dispute that it is a good point, but it’s also delaying," said Baucus.
This went on for another fifteen minutes until the amendment was defeated on a party line vote.
The amendment in question would have barred full implementation of the health care reform bill if it were apparent that up to a million seniors enrolled in private Medicare Advantage insurance programs could be shown to lose some of their benefits under the legislation.
Democrats and President Obama have made a cornerstone of their health reform pitch that if a person likes their current health coverage, under the new system they could keep it. But they finance the bill in part with assumed future cost savings in Medicare and Medicare Advantage. Republicans say these cost savings will lead to cuts in benefits.
"Millions will lose coverage because of this bill," said Sen. Orrin Hatch.
Baucus, countered Hatch that seniors will lose more benefits without reform. The current system, he said is unsustainable, and opposing his bill is the same as a vote for "the status quo." He complained that Republicans do not have a serious, comprehensive alternative.
"Its correct, you won't see a Comprehensive GOP bill and there’s a good reason for that," said Sen. John Kyl, a while later in the midst of a lengthy speech. "We don't believe in a massive government takeover!" he said, raising his voice.
At issue are the two main Republican gripes with the bill – First, that it cut costs in Medicare by scaling back payments to a program utilized by 10 million seniors – Medicare Advantage, which distributes public Medicare benefits through private companies. And second, that even the more moderate health reform bill envisioned by Democrats on the Finance Committee, would represent a massive government takeover of the health care industry.
Democrats have complained that the Medicare Advantage program, which was originally envisioned as a way to save the government money, but was tweaked in 2003 to expand coverage for people in rural areas, is a bad deal for Uncle Sam and tax payers.
The government pays 14 percent tax dollars more per person for these private programs, leading critics to say that traditional Medicare enrollees are subsidizing the higher benefit levels of the Medicare Advantage enrollees. But the Medicare Advantage programs are popular with many seniors because they simplify care and often wrap in extra benefits, ranging from dental and vision coverage to eyeglasses and gym club memberships.
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Seniors absolutely will lose benefits under this bill. There is no avoiding it, and anyone who claims otherwise, is either a fool or a lier.
This is a bad bill, and it should be defeated, as this is not “reform”, at all, but rather just a way to “Robin Hood” from the middle class to the poor.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | September 24, 2009, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm
MAYBE we could get REV wright to get in on health care debate. IM sure he could get the job done quickly..
Posted by: rking | September 24, 2009, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
More Democratic Hatchet work and in 2010 I hope we can make sure they dont work ANYWHERE in the USA. This is the most corrupt group ever. Payola payola like the MOB. OMG The Capo is from Chicago.
Posted by: ChicagoBob | September 24, 2009, 12:12 pm 12:12 pm
“So I analyzed that and decided I didn’t want to be the president during a depression greater than the Great Depression, or the beginning of a depression greater than the Great Depression.” –George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Dec. 18, 2008
Posted by: gWb | September 24, 2009, 12:24 pm 12:24 pm
“I guess it’s OK to call the secretary of education here ‘buddy.’ That means friend.” –George W. Bush, Philadelphia, Jan. 8, 2009
Posted by: gWb | September 24, 2009, 12:25 pm 12:25 pm
“One of the very difficult parts of the decision I made on the financial crisis was to use hardworking people’s money to help prevent there to be a crisis.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009
Posted by: gWb | September 24, 2009, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm
Only good that will come of this is it ensures Obama will be a one term president. These representatives are not voting based on the people they are representing or it would never pass.
Posted by: HH | September 24, 2009, 12:32 pm 12:32 pm
I heard on the radio today that in
the committee talking about healthcare
reform that one senator asked Mr.
Bachus if he got the numbers from the
CBO office. Mr. Bachus replied that he
did but did not want to go over it in
public. Also, Pelosi is adament that
the public not be able to read the
health care bill online prior to the
vote. If this is transparent and open
government, please explain how ????
Posted by: wis134 | September 24, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm
“At issue are the two main Republican gripes with the bill – First, that it cut costs in Medicare by scaling back payments to a program utilized by 10 million seniors – Medicare Advantage, which distributes public Medicare benefits through private companies.”
What happened to the conservative party that cared about cutting waste or worried about the budget?
Posted by: jhw539 | September 24, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
Everybody says we need reform. Does anyone in this society really believe this can be done without some sacrifice on the part of everyone? This means cutting programs that are too costly. If you can get the same care from the Original Medicare why should you pay more for Medicare Advantage Ins.? 14% higher is unreal and should be corrected. I am a senior and know that we need to bring the cost of premiums down but still get quality care. So far Republicans just complain instead of putting their heads together with the Democrats to solve these serious problems. If they don’t the US will have major problems which will effect the economy even worse than it already is.
Posted by: Kathy | September 24, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
This “reform” is a government takeover that will not make healthcare cheaper nor will it fix Medicare. What we can expect is even higher insurance premiums, drastic cuts to Medicare and increase taxes. Let’s not forget they still haven’t fixed Medicare and that will only be resolved by taxing every last dollar we get in our paychecks. You people who voted for Obama are dumber than anyone who voted for Bush. This guy is killing the country and we are setting the state for another dip in the economy.
Posted by: ByeByeAmerica | September 24, 2009, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm
Where is the medical lawsuit reform like “loser pays”? Why isn’t anything being done about pharmaceutical companies charging Americans 3x’s what they charge other countries for the same exact drugs? What are we doing about the obesity of Americans? American is the most obese country in the world by far with 1 in every 3 adults being obese. Obesity and the conditions associated with obesity contribute up to 20% of healthcare costs. None of this is being addressed because this isn’t about reforming the system to make it better. Its about amnesty for illegals and bigger government!
Posted by: ByeByeAmerica | September 24, 2009, 2:07 pm 2:07 pm
When simple medicare was started the Johnson administration estimated the cost was to be 9 billion in 1970 but by 1970 it cost nearly 100 billion. Most likely we have promised too much to too many, from social security to medicare to prescription drugs and someday we’ll have to decide what we are going to pay for and how much. This country has spent trillions fighting poverty but has created more of it by making welfare dependents out of otherwise intelligent people.
Posted by: david | September 24, 2009, 2:12 pm 2:12 pm
Everybody says we need reform. Does anyone in this society really believe this can be done without some sacrifice on the part of everyone? This means cutting programs that are too costly. If you can get the same care from the Original Medicare why should you pay more for Medicare Advantage Ins.? 14% higher is unreal and should be corrected. I am a senior and know that we need to bring the cost of premiums down but still get quality care. So far Republicans just complain instead of putting their heads together with the Democrats to solve these serious problems. If they don’t the US will have major problems which will effect the economy even worse than it already is.============= I am and have been sacraficing plenty all ready for the welfare, government employees, union employees and those that feel they don’t have to work. I should not be made to pay for those that won’t or don’t. This will further kill our economy as we can not afford anymore of dumBOs mistakes. There have been MANY suggestions for reform, but all the administration wants is power. Nothing to do with the economy or health care.
Posted by: Todd | September 24, 2009, 2:38 pm 2:38 pm
All private medical insurance companies are MIDDLEMAN – they take in premiums – take 30% or more off the top to pay for multiple million dollar CEO / executive packages, administrative costs and marketing – then they pay doctors negotiated rates… MEDICARE does the exact thing but with only a 4% cost to cover running the program because no one is making millions/billions off of sick AMERICANS… WHICH IS A BETTER BARGAIN FOR AMERICANS??? A government run medical insurance program!!!!
Posted by: Melanie | September 24, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
There have been MANY suggestions for reform, but all the administration wants is power. Nothing to do with the economy or health care.
Posted by: Todd | Sep 24, 2009 2:38:06 PM
Wrong Todd but whatever… obviously you haven’t had your premium more than triple in the last ten years while your deduction and co-pay increases.
Posted by: Melanie | September 24, 2009, 3:00 pm 3:00 pm
Dear Mr. Corrupt Senator from Texas (Kyl):
This has got me thinking about the ‘State of TX’ and them wanting to secede from the United States because they don’t want to be under so-called “government control”. Let them SECEDED – BYE!!!! Let’s build a wall around TX!!! End all FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HELP TODAY:
1. End Social Security and give the few that have contributed back what they have put in to the system minus benefits already received, if any.
2. End ALL Medicaid/Medicare benefits to all.
3. End federal subsidies for public schools, universities, public hospitals, public transportation including maintaining or building new roads, highways etc. No police, firemen subsidies of any kind. TX you are on your own – no military, NASA, etc.
4. No money for your airports or their personnel.
5. No government programs for kids or the poor. No tax benefits for interest on your homes, child care, etc. No welfare – period. No money for your prisons – period. No money for your wacked out justice system – zip (while you State knowingly kills innocent people. You all pay for it on your own!!!!
6. No postoffice, no CDC access, no hurricane warnings or help to rebuild flooded out homes time and time again. No public libraries, museums, national park funding either. No broadband, or internet, communications access on any US systems anymore – YOU will have to build your own communication infrastructure. No DMV – no government licensing agencies, no access to the FDA, CIA, FBI, Dept of Justice and so on.
7. No support in your struggle against illegal immigration – no federal funding to pay for their hospital visits, etc which BTW – REAGAN mandated in the 80′s.
Oh – if you export out of the ‘Country of TX’ – lots of tariffs on you!!! Bye – the US does not need you as a member – at all!!!
Posted by: Melanie | September 24, 2009, 3:10 pm 3:10 pm
Let’s face it Snowe is just dragging down the process. She is not needed and she is a distraction. Let her deal with her own constituents when she goes home. Let them tell her what two weeks means to them–especially those who may not have two weeks!
She has been used as a very effective tool by the GOP to drain the energy right out of the bill rendering the current bill less than useless but also mean spirited in the punishing of innocents.
What happened to getting a good bill to protect the middle class and those who have been loosing so badly in this economy.
Yes, the economy is looking up (for the wealthy on Wall Street) but looking over at Main Street, we can see that every day even more are suffering even greater losses. Maybe the losses are slowing down but they are still GROWING for many. Those already suffering are mandated daily to humiliate themselves and their families while applying for assistance that they never thought an option. Now the government wants even more humiliation as we send hordes more through more needs-based testing to see if they’ve lost “enough” to qualify for charity.
Must we become a system that regards human dignity so lowly. Can we not show respect to our citizens who are facing crises as we do for those who may not be suffering as much?
Posted by: Joy Sayler | September 24, 2009, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm
The democrats knowingly will throw some of their members under the bus, just to pass this massive spending bill, they could care less if the are in the majority or minority in the future. All they want is power NOW, to reshape america that no one will recognize
Posted by: Lizzie | September 24, 2009, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm
Posted by: Lizzie | Sep 24, 2009 3:55:26 PM
Liz – What America are you talking about? The 1% of the population that controls/has more than 50% of all the wealth in this country, or are you talking about the Texans who a few years back uncovered a “Whites Only” sign above a drinking fountain in a Dallas Court house and demanded that it remained uncovered and stay exactly where it is to remind everyone outside of Texas on how much of a pathetic, racist state it still is but those people living in Texas actually believe it was an honorable sign??? No different than South Carolina fighting for the right to fly their ‘hatred and bigotry’ with their confederate flag they STILL deem as honorable!!!! Is that the ‘country’ you are proud member of???
Posted by: Melanie | September 24, 2009, 6:10 pm 6:10 pm
Health Care Reform losers include everyone: taxes will go up, seniors will lose benefits, young folks will be forced to buy insurance they don’t want or need, deficits will go up and the dollar will decrease in value, the only people that will benefit will be” politicians, bureaucrats, and Democrat special interest groups who will get their greedy fingers on the peoples money so they can stuff their pockets with our money and screw around with everyone’s money and lives.
Posted by: mary | September 24, 2009, 7:53 pm 7:53 pm
Hey Melanie -
Responding to your 1 – 7 comments above …. Texas won’t have to worry about any of that. They have OIL. WE DON’T.
They will have PLENTY to take care of everything they need to. And they have the pride from their forefathers to stand up for what they believe in. They are actually not the only state to talk of secession. This government that is currently in place is too far-reaching into our personal freedoms and our pocketbooks. You can talk until you are blue in the face, but you will never convince me otherwise.
Do I want healthcare for everyone? Sure. Do I think everyone who has insurance should have to be worried about losing / changing what they’ve got? No. Let O worry about the millions who don’t have it – let him set up “exhanges” for THEM, but leave the rest of us ALONE. Let O and his thieving cronies GIVE UP their “golden fleece” insurance – that WE PAY FOR. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think ANY in government are so valuable that they shouldn’t be PAYING FOR THEIR OWN POLICIES. They have a heckuva lot more than we do (at least, they have a heckuva lot more than I DO, I can tell you that!)
I’m from Virginia. We went with the North. But I’m proud of our confederate flag, also. To me, it represents a priceless piece of our AMERICAN history – whether it’s perfect or not, it’s a part of us.
And to answer your question, “Is that the ‘country’ you are proud member of???”
YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT.
America is the best and most-blessed nation the world has ever seen.
I have been blessed by God to be born and live here. You are, too. So is everyone else.
Instead of everyone trying to tear America down, why don’t you try building her up for a change? Do we have problems? Yes. Are we still a good country to live in? Darned right!
We have more rights than any other nation on earth. Want to stand on the steps of the Capitol Building or anywhere else and shout that you hate America? Go ahead – THAT’S YOUR RIGHT. Wanna try that in Iran? Hmmm …. thought not.
We are the most giving country the world has ever seen. Always 1st on the dirt, whether it’s our disaster or someone else’s … tsunami’s, terror, pirates, earthquake, fire, etc. The American People, on the whole, are the most generous the world has ever seen. Do we have warts? Sure. Who doesn’t?
I love this country. And I love the Creator who put me here. We are blessed.
Posted by: LuvnUSA | September 24, 2009, 8:42 pm 8:42 pm
Why won’t Government let insurance companies go National for 1 year and see how much the costs come down? Answer: They know it will work, and they want to have the power.
WHY ARE THERE EARMARKS IN THE HEALTHCARE BILL???
Posted by: wheresmymoney | September 25, 2009, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm
Well, I myself will be moving to Texas here shortly. I believe in the people of Texas, they are tough (yep Bush too), and they don’t take crap from minorities. We should be able to keep the “whites only” sign, and the confederate flag if we wish!! And you are the “minorities” to tell us we cannot! Texas will thrive either way–they take care of themselves, unlike the minorities who want to take from us!
Posted by: lyineyes1956 | September 25, 2009, 1:13 pm 1:13 pm
it seems that some of you dont understand that Texas is one of those purple states.
Al Gore, John Kerry and Barrack Obama all did quite well here.
What should concern many is that the Right wing is attempting to subvert public education by introducing textbooks that speak highly of people like Newt Gingrich while not even acknowledging the existance or positions of any liberal movement.
I used to be Republican. I always thought they cared about people but I was very wrong.
Both Republicans and blue dog democrats
care more for corporations and monied interests than tehy do people.
It seems to me that only the Progressive Democrats care about the American people. Single payer is the most efficient way to take care of the most people. All the otehr countries do better than we do and they do it with less money. At the very least we need a strong public insurance CHOICE so that when you lose your insurance becasue you change jobs or it gets too expensive either for your employer or for you then you will have an available CHOICE that you can make.
and oddly enough, since the government run programs are not concerned with profit or getting your business or any of those things that take extra money, they are inherently more efficient.
we should use the increased efficiency to make government care better.
Besides all of this is the fact taht Republicans have been trying to KILL Medicare for quite some time. there latest effort is to do to it what they did with Medicare Part D. It would effectively eliminate Medicare for everyone who isnt already on it.
but never fear…private insurance companies would be your ONLY CHOICE for the rest of your life and they have been doing a great job so far…right?
Posted by: Dave | September 25, 2009, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm
not everone in texas has an oil well but some of us paid social security taxes for years and years. now if you expect to collect any you are callede getting entitelments I PAID FOR THOSE ENTITLEMENTS and now that there is not enough surpluse for the goverment to rob from like thy did in the past they want to cut back. dont say anything or like HUMANA you will get a gag order that is an attempt to get arround the first ammendment
Posted by: earl | September 25, 2009, 6:31 pm 6:31 pm
Can it really be possible that the white house wants you to report on your fellow citizens if they send you an e-mail that doesnt agree with them talk abou outrages. Hitler did the very same thing just prior to the 2nd world war. The first amendment is comming under fire and you better clean your gun cause thats what the 2nd amendment is in the constitution for.
Posted by: earl | September 25, 2009, 6:37 pm 6:37 pm
The house health care reform bills still have no provision to require a check of immigration status. Should such a provision not be include in the house bill, the provision gets left out by machinations of Reid and Pelosi and is presented to and signed by Obama – then at the end of day Obama will be a liar concerning coverage of illegal immigrants.
Posted by: mercantilist | September 25, 2009, 6:57 pm 6:57 pm
The check on immigration status may become moot as an issue. There is evidence that our great leader now wants to tie the healthcare issue in with legalizing the illegals already here which would put them all into to government pot if the healthcare bill goes as he wishes. Many of these people are on the bottom end of pay scales and could pay little or nothing in income taxes or might qualify for the low income provision, thus adding to the cost of a bill that NOONE already has any idea how it will pan out. The Sunday interview with George brought up an issue of which Mr. Obama should have been and undoubtebly WAS informed of. ACORN has been his baby for years and he lied when he said he wasn’t aware of some of the recent issues. If he wasn’t he should have been, it is important. There is no way that he would not have heard this from one of his czars even if he was too busy running around from TV station to TV station trying to downplay the honest, non-racial protests to another huge government program to mismanage. The corruption and waste in our government would probably more than pay for the uninsured if Congress would do the job we sent them to Washington for. Why aren’t the democrats censuring their own for the hateful remarks made by them about their own constituents? If they were working for anyone but the government they would be fired.
Posted by: pepesmom | September 25, 2009, 10:08 pm 10:08 pm
THE DANGERS OF A SINGLE PARTY GOVERNMENT!
You may not like Rush, but he puts some facts out there that Obama would just as soon you not know about.
I am talking about the sound clips of someone under Valerie Garrett making calls to get the NEA (which thrives on grant money) to do art in support of the Obama agenda.
Under any other administration the media would blitz such an unconstitutionality! However, government run healthcare (and gov takeover of private industry) is unconstitutional itself, so is it safe to assume the media is in bed with our freefall into a socialist state?
How do you like the ring of the U.S.S.A.?
Posted by: Ed Taylor | September 26, 2009, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm
interesting.
I had posted links to information debunking incorrect information on both ACORN and the ‘czars’ issue but it seems to have been deleted.
is truth not wanted on this site?
Posted by: Dave | September 29, 2009, 1:41 pm 1:41 pm