From the Fact Check Desk: Illegal Immigrants and Health Care Reform

It is not okay for a sitting congressman to behave in such a boorish manner as did Wilson last night. He should be censured at least. Also a nonpartisan site Politifact stated that President Obama wasn’t lying when he said the health-care reforms he’s proposing would not apply to illegal immigrants. In fact it rated Joe Wilson’s outburst false.

“It is not okay for a sitting congressman to behave in such a boorish manner as did Wilson last night. He should be censured at least.”
No, its not ok for him to behave as such but he has apologized and its been accepted.
His punishment will be a tough re-election fight against a socially conservative Iraq war vet who just raked in……
Holy cow!
Rob Miller Act Blue
“13,651 supporters, $490,585″

Obama has a long history of letting the other side talk first, getting the objections on the talbe before he talks. I think he did this in health care.
He let the republicans get totally balled up in “death panels” etc – let them get totally enmeshed. Today – they look (especially people like Palin) – like total idiots.
Obama is, as we have always known, a community organizer.

Dems voted down any amendments to verify legal citizenship. That’s equivalent to saying you have to be 21 to purchase alcohol, but not requiring you to show an ID.

jake, the supreme court recently refused to uphold the will of the CA people who voted to prohibit illegals gaining access to health care (non-er-room care) so this is precedent. i think law professor obama knows this loophole and will probably/maybe be more than happy to exploit it when the bill is passed. ie, it’s unconstitutional to refuse illegals access to the public option. have you heard of this? trying to find which prop in CA to give you chapter and verse…

AS is the case in Washington, there are very few clear cut lines of distinction. It would seem that both Obama and Wilson are correct.

Obama is a liar.

So Mr. OBAMA the current President did LIE to Amreica and the congress
How sad that to have the truth investigated and reproted on by the press a congressman in the United states has to yell…and martyr himself, because you know the press and
leftists will attack and destroy him.
hold on don’t freak out I do not support Rudeness to ANY Presiden of ANY party. BUT what are peopel to do sit silently and be lied to an and overrun -just submit? think about it
WAHT ELSE WAS MR OBAMA BEING LESS THAN TRUTHFUL…HE IS A FAKE A FROMT MAN FOR THE RADICAL FAR LEFT, PUT IN OFFICE BY THE LIARS IN THE PRESS AND CONTINUES TO BE PROPPED UP BY THEM

“How sad that to have the truth investigated and reproted on by the press a congressman in the United states has to yell…and martyr himself”
Except that Wilson lied.

Nothing should happen to this clown in terms of censure. Every American, except those who bow down to George Bush and Rush Limbaugh every morning, know that Wilson was an utter idiot. He doesn’t deserve a second of any serious person’s time on Capitol Hill. He made Republicans everywhere look terrible.

So illegals getting coverage is Reagan’s fault!?! LOL

We can not trust Obama and I am sorry to say it. We need term Limits so bad. We should send reid and pelosi to Cuba for many of the prople there are not as bad as they are to our country.
I feel we are dommed

Apparently the dems recently refused (twice) to include requiring all health care recipients participating in a gov health care program to show proof of citizenship. No matter what Obama says, this is the loophole for admitting illegal aliens and their families. LIE – PROBABLY, BUT AT LEAST DECEITFUL!!

Our school systems have been under performing for a long long time. The result is tidle wave of stupid people who believe stupid people (like the Palen effect). This country has serious problems that mostly likely will not be solved. Too many stupid people in the way.

“what he said was in HIS plan…”
Really? How do you know, since “his” plan does not exist? (Or perhaps you can tell us where to find it.)

Kelli, in regard to the ‘will of the people’ being overturned by the state Supreme Court in California re: health care for illegal aliens, the reason it was overturned was because it DID outlaw even emergency care for illegals showing up at an ER with even life-threatening conditions, and that directly violates the federal EMTALA/COBRA act requiring ER’s to see anyone and everyone who shows up (when there’s a conflict, federal law supercedes state law every time, i.e. the court was spot-on correct here); the original proposition even wanted us (I am an emergency physician) to check the ID’s or ‘green cards’ of everyone who showed up. All of us en masse (and the California chapter of the American College of Emergency Physicians) simply refused to go along–if a person shows up at the front door of my ED, he’s going to be taken care of…period…and I’m never going to ask for an ID, green card or anything else. That poorly worded proposition was cruel in it’s intent, and potentially made felons of hard-working emergency workers who are only upholding their oath to care for anyone who needs it.

Mr.Tapper is wrong.Politifact says no free healthcare for Illeagles. Joe

“Mr.Tapper is wrong.Politifact says no free healthcare for Illeagles. Joe”
Joe Stratton | Sep 10, 2009 7:05:13 PM
Mr Tapper DID NOT say free healthcare for illegals.
And Mr Tapper DID NOT identify any lie in what President Obama said.
A debate cannot even begin if you can’t understand even moderately complex English communication.

I’m sick of republicans period. I have always been a swing voter. I am not sure I can ever go there again.

“I’m sick of republicans period. I have always been a swing voter. I am not sure I can ever go there again.”
You can always vote the candidate as opposed to party.
While I am hardly a fan of Republicans, there are degrees of insanity.

Ryan C – That is what I have always done. But the sad truth is this party acts so absurd lately that the thought of attaching myself to it at all is getting disgusting. It’s like some petty demonization nonsense every time anything is said. The party of stupidity and Glen Beck. Some mental group think that seems to involve very little “think” anymore. They just spout what the great leaders tell them to.

Joe Wilson, take note:
President Obama was correct.
You were wrong, as the actual legislative language of HR 3200 makes clear.
Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:
SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

so it was Reagan fault, because he signed Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act on 1986. Because of that Act,Illigal immigrants are already eligible for emergency care at Hospital
and This care is paid for by American Taxes Payers. So what the fuss was all about..If Joe Wilson want to pointing finger at someone he should be pointing his finger at President Reagan because that where is all began
On President Obama’s bill, it said clearly that no cover for illegal immigrants.

Ask the people in Illinois the difference between “shall” and “will.”
—————————————
As JT pointed out, illegals already have their medical bills paid for. Their children’s births are paid for as well as their aftercare. Before you can say food stamps, they have a “link” card and a driver’s license. Before you can say car, they are driving one-usually without insurance. Of course it goes without saying they get a “social security” number first.
I got a kick out of Brian Williams and his crew last night reporting on the “untruths” and “false information” of Obama’s health care plan. Apparently those people don’t get out much. I know people who have been laid off and lost their jobs and still can’t get any help for food. As far as the hospitals, by law they can’t turn anyone away so they are forced to supply medical care-knowing they will never see payment.
I know people who work everyday and are considered below the poverty line. These people CANNOT get a Public Aid card but the unwed mother who’s children have different fathers can.

“Ryan C – That is what I have always done. But the sad truth is this party acts so absurd lately that the thought of attaching myself to it at all is getting disgusting.”
Well I am sorry to hear that then.
Because its going to have to be the sane ones who take the GOP back from the insane.

Ryan – I just do not think there is any possibility of that anymore. I have begged my smart conservative friends to take their own to task and they seem to lack the ability to understand great damage is indeed being done here. It was kind of funny at first. I have had enough of it now. The simple truth is they are absolutely running off the moderates that have no great loyalty. I’d rather go Commie than be this.
The republican party needs to find a couple of decent leaders to stand up and tell these fools to shut up because they make them look bad.

I’m sick of Republicans who seem to take pride in an inability to comprehend English.
Posted by: jhw539 | Sep 10, 2009 7:16:43 PM
***
The low reading comp levels of some (not all) on here is pretty stunning and explains a hella lot.

Question of the day. Still no takers.
“Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan.” – POTUS last night
Anyone believe that and willing to admit it?

“But back to the fact check desk: do President Obama’s proposed reforms apply to those in the U.S. illegally? No.”
I guess Joe Wilson is a liar, now isn’t he?

“Unlike you, I support rooting out corruption no matter where.”
ROLFMAO!
That explains why you got so angry about the culture of corruption charge or when people mentioned the doznes of GOP staffers and Congressman convicted in the Abramoff scandal alone.

“But you want to know something. This federal government is only tasked with one priority – defense – per the Constitution.
You are for the Constitution, aren’t you?”
ROFLMAO!
The Preamble to the Constitution
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Right wingers have no idea what the Constitution says.

According to the writer, some illegals would be required to have health insurance but none would be affected by “reform”. The writer should work for Obama,

THIS PROPOSED BILL DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT USERS OF THE HEATH CARE PROGRAM SHOW PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP. DEMS STOPPED THAT FROM GETTING IN – WHICH MEANS THAT ILLEGAL ALIEN WILL BE ABLE TO USE THE SYSTEM ANYTIME – FOR FREE!! EVERY LEGAL SUIT TO DATE PROTECTS THE ILLEGAL ALIEN RE HEALTH CARE. ANY WAY YOU ADD IT UP, ILLEGALS WILL RECEIVE HEALTH CARE AS THEY DO NOW. OBAMA LIED? PROBABLY NOT, BUT DECEIT? NO DOUBT!!

“According to the writer, some illegals would be required to have health insurance but none would be affected by “reform”. The writer should work for Obama,”
keith | Sep 10, 2009 7:48:31 PM
Oh no! Illegal aliens could have fines levied against them if they don’t buy insurance on their own that would prevent them being even more of a burden on America! The horror! I’m SURE that’s exactly what every means when they say health care reform will give healthcare to illegals!

As long as I have your attention, I should point out that all of us already pay the costs of health care for illegal immigrants — through emergency room visits, Emergency Medicaid, hidden fees by hospitals, workplace safety incidents, and the like. This idea that we all aren’t paying for this one way or another is non-reality-based.
**
Ok so somehow this makes it ok to give illegals more access to healthcare?? THEY SHOULDNT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!! We should be adding restrictions on the bill to keep them from sucking us dry.
Oh and while i have your attention, the current bill will only cover 1/3rd of the uninsured, if we want to cover all of the uninsured cutting costs wont be enough, higher taxes will be the only way.

So to sum up this long winded and tangential story:
Was what Obama said true? Yes.
Was Wilson right? No.

“We should be adding restrictions on the bill to keep them from sucking us dry.”
adam | Sep 10, 2009 7:54:19 PM
You have to be trolling at this point. THE CURRENT BILL DOES ADD RESTRICTIONS TO KEEP ILLEGALS FROM ‘SUCKING US DRY.’ It adds fines and penalties if they don’t purchase their own (unsubsidized) insurance plan. As opposed to now, where they just sop off those who are responsible.
This is why the Right’s arguments are not respected by the left. They are so far disconnected from reality you just have to assume they are making a joke.

Deceit? Deceit is death panels, secret commie terrorist Muslim governments, going to kill grandma, going to know who are republicans and deny them healthcare, etc. etc. This is like pot meet kettle here. Toss in some why we went to war with Iraq from that prior administration.

The concern should be focused on how people will manipulate the system. Illegals will get healthcare if they pay into it, but many of them will not because they still don’t want to pay, and they’ll still go to the ER for healthcare. Then you have healthcare paying for them twice instead of once now.

what everyone seems to be ignoring is that once they pass this piece of legislation – giving amnesty/legalization/’temporary’work visas to all the illegal aliens who are ‘ineligible’ will therefore make them eligible for these benefits…cuz they will now be legal.and don’t forget the additional 30-40million family members they bring to the US illegally…..more medicare/charitable hospital emergency room visits

Actually, if YOU read HR3200, you will see that the infamous rule that automatically creates US citizens if illegals give birth here affords health care to the child ‘citizen’. Then it extends health care automatically to his/her parents, so YES they get health care.
Also, if the narrow minded people would watch FoxNews (the only network reporting the news!!!!), they would have learned today that if everyone gets healthcare, then the Constitution says that if one class of citizen gets a benefit then everyone in the country must also get that benefit. It is against the law to not give it to them! This has been upheld twice in California after referendums were passed taking away illegal rights.
Why doesn’t ABC report the news any more? Is their script written by Obama??

Sorry guys that was (special) and (talking). Sorry to make my fantastic post so hard to read. Maybe AARP.com oh I mean ABC.com did it to me on purpose.

“Actually, if YOU read HR3200, you will see that the infamous rule that automatically creates US citizens if illegals give birth here affords health care to the child ‘citizen’.”
Psssst if you’re born on American soil, you are an American citizen and therefore entitled to all rights and privileges that citizenship grants.
There is nothing infamous about it except maybe in racist right wing circles who miss the good old days when only white folks became citizens.

“If Obama was indeed a lawyer he would have known about the California case”
So who started this talking poiint?
You’re the 4th right wing parrot to mention it.

Republicans in the House and Senate still trippin
They authorize billions for tanks and weapons
Making collateral damage the explanation
For the loss of so many children
Yet, access to health care can’t include a public option
Can’t afford to pay for it is the reason given
Even though the insurance companies agree they loss if it’s open competition
They probably banking on us not to pay attention
That’s why they use scare tactics and play politics with the President’s legislation
We voted for change from the old status quo policies
Equal pay for women and stable economy
Plus, a crack down on Wall Street and credit card agencies
Just a few accomplishments from his young presidency
A man worth over 100 million still fighting for decency
He understood bottom-up is how America will stay wealthy
Which led him to treat everyone with respect and humility
Washington, D.C. could use more like Ted Kennedy
It’s time to mobilize against the stale GOP
Their only contribution is opposition to any policy
Scared of the significance of giving the president this victory
They would rather build schools and hospitals in Iraqi than their own country
When the truth is health care legislation will not only get us healthy
But create jobs without always using our military

Too funny. Thank you gentleman from the great state of South Carolina. The president stands corrected. (HIS mistake).

“the infamous rule that automatically creates US citizens if illegals give birth here”
tj | Sep 10, 2009 8:16:04 PM
Infamous rule? You mean The Constitution of the United States?

Is it not time to look at fixing the illegal immigrant issues with regards to health care? Should it not be part of any reforms proposed by the president.
Any new plans should address the issue of illegal immigrants and the cost of their medical care. Americans are now paying for the care of illegals in ER and they will be doing it in the future.

jhw539 7:57:06
Not true in Illinois. The word “shall” got the state out of paying what the law said they should-which no doubt was why it was written that way to begin with. It leaves the option of different interpretation “down the road”.
Been there, done that.

Foghorn Leghorn…….Corupt Dems. How about Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.

“So Obama is or isn’t a liar??”
Joe C | Sep 10, 2009 8:36:05 PM
The easy answer is in the second paragraph – no. Obama was not talking about HR 3200. He’s putting out his own requirements rather than playing whack a mole commenting or pushing various aspects.

One more thought before I run, I think it is so funny how there are people that still sit here and defend the 8 years of Bush. The only thing that makes me laugh more is the folks that back this disaster of a president which is becoming painfully clear will be much much worse than Bush. Get over your party guys wow. Start thinking for yourself.

Perhaps at the same time we take odf healthcare we need to work on immigration laws. Law need to be change to state, if a child is born of parent who is illegal, then said child/ren are also. Does one rob and bank and get caught, get to keep the money stolen. We need to start using some basic common sense.

“Not true in Illinois. The word “shall” got the state out of paying what the law said they should-which no doubt was why it was written that way to begin with. It leaves the option of different interpretation “down the road”.
Been there, done that.”
RL in Illinois | Sep 10, 2009 8:32:24 PM
Can you cite a bit more on the case? I know that is not the intrepretation of shall in CA, MO, NV, AK, NY, CO, MT, OR, or ID. But I’ve never done work in ID.

How did the US end up with such a sick health care system anyway? It is because somewhere back in the past Presidents and lawmakers did’nt do their math properly.
They rushed through bills without careful consultation and thought. In 10 years down the line the same will be said of the Obama bills if and when they appear.

Obama has lied repeatedly—he’s a liar. He should be impeached.

Among Wilson’s top contributors are the American Hospital Association, a lobby group that represents the interests of hospitals and health networks, and the American Medical Association, which represents physicians.

Before you defend Wilson, remember that he is a member of an organization run by radical neo-Confederates who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution.

Love this quote:
“Like a petulant child, Obama has assumed that the problem is that he hasn’t spoken often or loudly enough, which is one of the reasons that his speeches on health care have not changed an iota in substance but have gotten louder and angrier in tone.”

I am a medical professional and have worked in medicine for over thirty years. Yes, system is abused by illegal immigrants. Yes, they are presently covered for emergency room visits. And they should be. No one should be denied care in the emergency room. But if they use it twice, some action must be taken, unless there are certain specific circumstances. Sadly these individuals must finally realize and know they may face deportation if they attempt to use/abuse our health care system through emergency room avenues. Once is ok, but twice is a possible big no and ation for possible deportation. A computerized medical care system would easily put a stop to this. A special agency could be delegated to deal with these individuals and investigate. This is sad, but abuse can not continue. We can not support continued medical care of illegal immigrants too. These individuals must plan to pay for these medical costs if they come to US. They must use legal channels or pay medical bills.

Exactly . . . there are no restrictions and an amendment to prohibit illegal alien participation was killed by the Democrats. Obama really needs to get his act together and know of what he speaks before he shoots off his mouth.

@Peppah,
I wasn’t joking about Wilson, he was a member of Sons of Confederate Veterans. I don’t know if he still is, but he was one of the wackos who tried to keep the confederate flag up. I should add in fairness, this was not the Republican Party position, and very few voted with him.

Take a chill pill. Why is it that GOPs get so spun up over the thought of illegals while remaining silent over legalized Americans being bankrupted from medical bills? GOP end up defending a postulated scenario that doesn’t exist and still won’t admit the “death panel” provision was a political tactic as long as they use the words, “it could happen”. Like, in what reality? Thier anti-christ, scifi dream world of the movie Red Dawn? Dems are the ones I see that have been for health insurance reform before it was cool. GOP, use your passion and energy for the reality of Americans who go bankrupt from denied insurance claims.

“The legislation so far proposed is full of sleazy language with so many loopholes that ACORN will have a field day corrupting the system if the legislation is enacted.”
jcarob | Sep 10, 2009 9:07:57 PM
I know ACORN is your all purpose boogie man, but they don’t do health care. At all. Dial back the paranoia a bit, or at least try a less absurd boogie man – maybe trial lawyers. They’re always good.

I think most people here forget why illegal immigrants receive medical care in this country today–because it is moral and ethical, no matter your political party or affiliation(and really, those Republican conservatives who call themselves Christians ought to be ashamed). We are not WWII Germany where we get rid of undesirables, this country has a conscience and I would like to keep it that way–your small monetary burden(because really most of your taxes go to the Defense(Iraq war?), Transportation(roads, airways anyone?), and Education departments) can be of great help to a dying child (is anyone opposing care for illegal immigrants ever donated to a charity or money that will go abroad?).

Sorry, Jake but the President is an obvious liar on this one. You can’t say I’ll cover all the uninsured but not illegals when illegals are 25% of the uninsured. Further, Obama has proposed giving amnesty to illegals so by making illegals legal he would then make them eligible for taxpayer funded health care. In fact the lie is so obvious that the President’s position is totally indefensible.

I really think Obama is a neat guy. He has shown such vision for so long.
Undoubtedly he is the best President ever. So what if he knew and approved about the AIG bonuses in the stimulus bill and then lied about knowing about them? So what if he spent 20 years in an anti Semitic Church? So what if unemployment was 4.6% under Bush before the Democratic Congress took over and now it’s 9.5%—we must always blame Bush and ignore the Democratic Congress’s and Obama’s failures for the past three years? So what if Obama believes the same things as Bill Ayers—a terrorist who bombed the Pentagon? So what if Obama hails Yasser Arafat’s former PLO spokesman Rashid Khalidi as a hero? So what if Obama lied about bowing to the Saudi King? So what if Obama dictatorially ordered Georgetown to neuter itself by covering up the name of Jesus? So what if Obama has killed future economic growth and spurred future inflation through reckless and irresponsible spending programs? So what if Obama has unconstitutionally appointed 30 “czars” who are not subject to Congressional oversight and approval? So what if Obama lied about the fact he supports single payer–and has said so in a 2003 and 2007 video? So what if Obama is pushing to cut medical care for seniors and the elderly? So what if Obama won’t release his college grades? So what if Obama won’t release his medical records? So what if Obama lied when he said he wouldn’t approve any pork projects? So what if Obama lied when he said he wouldn’t appoint lobbyists? So what if Obama lied when he said government would be transparent—and then he rammed through the pork laden “stimulus” bill before Congress could read it? So what if Obama lied when he said unemployment wouldn’t go above 8%? So what if Obama has already increased health care costs through his stupid HIPAA and COBRA changes which were rammed through in the stimulus bill? So what if Obama encourages people to sit on their butts waiting for government handouts instead of achieving their maximum potential?
So what if Obama favors high gas prices at the expense of blacks, Hispanics, whites, Asians, and every American?
This guy is so wonderful and we must continue the unabashed cult worship of him. I am indeed proud to have such an arrogant, narcisstic lying hypocrite and egomaniac as President. He is the best liar as President we have ever had.

i just want to say that i think it was totally disrespectful what rep.joe wilson yelled to President Barak Obama.what kind of message do he think he’s sending to the world.the world is going to think if we can disrespect our President then they can to.i think this outburst is dangerous to our relations with other countries who we are trying to develope good relations with.not only does rep.joe wilson needs to stop but americans at these town hall meetings need to tone it down.for heavens sake this is our PRESIDENT!

The government can not be all things to all people….this health scam of Obama harms us all. Most don’t want it, but with so much money to scam–Obama will allow it to drop. He has to repay those that got him almost a $1 billion to buy the presidency.

also im very embarrassed by the way people been acting at these townhall meetings. because i know the whole world is watching especially our real foes out there. this is the whole reason why i switched from republican to independant and voted for barak obama because republican’s are to extreme.come next election if barak is not re-elected i will not be voting for a republican.i will look for the change i need out side of democrates & republicans.im kinda getting burned out on both of these parties.

The problem is not this health care bill. That’s a tempest in a tea cup. The problem is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and the companies that provide employment to people who are unable to prove their citizenship or residency! Where is the outcry against these providers? Where is the crackdown on the agencies and individuals that make illegal immigration so profitable? That’s where the real problem lies and until this administration addresses it, everything they do will be scrutinized against this problem.

“Obama lied repeatedly during his speech.”
That’s your opinion, you can’t prove any of it. Obama’s plan is designed to protect Medicare, cover the uninsured by cutting cost elsewhere [as he described in the speech]is not intended to cover illegal aliens and will not ration care anywhere near as ruthlessly as the health insurance companies are doing right now [it's like crying there's a wolf outside when he's been in the house for years]. Just claiming to know otherwise does not prove these are lies.

ConstantXI, If this is true, he had
a great teacher to learn from.
Mr WMD lier himself George W Bush!

LOTS OF ARGUMENTS RE THIS (proposed bill) – costs, rationing, wait times quality of care and availability of physicians. Bottom line is that its sister programs in France, GB and Canada are all in various stages of decomposition. Ours will of course follow same, if adopted. Much wiser to attack our current health care system and resolve issues such as tort reform, preexisting conditions, being able to purchase policies across state lines and of course plugging holes in our current fed programs such as medicare and medicaid. Makes sense to me… MORE EFFICIENT AND A HECK OF A LOT CHEAPER!!!!

It would be stupid not provide medical care for people regardless of legal or illegal..someone with an infectious disease goes untreated and spreads…without medical care of any kind people knowing it is not available would not seek medical care that would be smart let the disease spread..because of humane reasons I think emergency care is necessary …to protect ourselves from diseases that other people may get and not get treated…

Jake, you seem to be one of the better journalists left in this country, so as a former journalist, let me ask you a few questions: 1) Why has the mainstream media ignored the large number and alarming backgrounds of czars that this administration has appointed behind closed doors? 2) Why has no one in the media bothered to dig into the relationships between Mr. Obama and ACORN and SEIU, and what part these groups are playing in shaping the health care bills? 3) Why has no one bothered to ask how multiple 1000-plus page bills (written by the Apollo Group) appeared on the doorsteps of our congressmen, and are obviously loaded with “doublespeak”? 4) Why has no one been able to tell us exactly what happened one year ago next week, when our financial system was literally brought to its knees, and in reality ended the election right then and there? Who was pulling all of that money out of our system? There are obviously many, many more questions to ask, but I leave you with two last (and similar) questions. Why did your network not cover Van Jones and his disgusting, racist and hate-filled comments? And, why isn’t your network covering today’s breaking news about the undercover ACORN video showing a prospective Pimp and Hooker being schooled on how to cheat the the government. These people have received MILLIONS of tax payer dollars, are scheduled to receive BILLIONS more, and will be heading up our Census next year. Needless to say if ANY of the above was being perpetrated by a Republican, it would be HEADLINE news.

The republicans voted to spend 15 billion a month in Iraq war that did not make us any safer. Now that we want to spend for americans they cry so loud. Medicare and social security was passed by one partisan vote by democrats. We should do the same with this healthcare reform with the public option. We don’t need the republicans. History shows that the republicans are more of an obstructionist when it comes to the american people.

Bush did not lie, he just didn’t care about anything but going to war. Reagan, bush I and bush II did nothing for the american people for 20 years accept give dictators our tax dollars Manuel Noriega ($10,000 a month) support Saddam Hussien weapons and support and don’t forget the Iran/contra affair, than invaded them. While running up the debt. President Obama atleast is trying to do something for all Americans, but the racist right don’t care about all americans only conservative minded folks. Everybody else is just a waste of air. They are full of fear and spreading it.

The President seems to be a stranger to the truth, now I see he is going to be on TV for an entire week, don’t anyone feel that its a bit of an overkill now.
Obama 24/7!!

Tnat’s hate filled! I don’t ever want to be mistake for those folks who show up and townhalls with signs that read:
No Youth In Asia!=death panels
Kepp the government out of my Medicaid?
No socialized Medecine!
Real signs from real idiots! That’s the Republican party. And congressman shout out! Nice going. We’ve raised over $500,00 dollars in less than 24 hours! And Organizing For America raised 1 million dollars in less than 24 hours. Face it. You’re never going to beat us again!

I like when Obama said that he was gonna make health insurance law (in the same way that we have to have car insurance) for every american.So I guess that means if you ever go to the hospital and you don’t have have any insurance,after treatment,you go to jail for not being able to pay.If you don’t have car insurance…you shouldn’t drive.I guess if you don’t have health insurance…you souldn’t live.GO HOME AND DIE!!!

“If we are already paying for illegal immigrants through emergency care, then would it not be more cost effective for us to get them into a health program so that we are not paying exhorbitant costs ultimately for their emergency room visits?”
Careful now, you’re starting to make too much sense. The right-wing uses illegal aliens as boogie-men. It’s just a tag. It’s like trying to convince them that real humans and not the un-dead work at ACORN. Sure it would make a lot more sense to get all illegals to pay into the system but it’s too easy for the Right to make it look like they’re getting something they shouldn’t be, and what everybody’s getting is what the Right is all about. I’m sure some of them would even advocate denying illegals emergency care.

Jason — So you think ER’s should have been instructed to help everyone in need IF they could show they were legal?? — Get real! — How do you distinguish if it’s a medical emergeny?

Mr. Obama’s presidency is a failure, for the same reason that Mr. Bush’s presidency was a failure: the task of a president is not to “run the country,” his task is to lead the nation.
Mr. Obama has already lost the ability to lead the nation. He talks far too much, and the people can no longer trust him to tell the truth.

Hmmm… I think I’ll check into the AP for my primary source for the news. Hopefully it isn’t as full of entertainment, bias, opinion, and hype.

First off, the racist right? Just because I have a rightward way of thinking I am a racist? Someone should really tell my wife that. I’m sure she would like to know shes married to a racist since she is black and I am white. What has this country become? Such ignorance about differing point of views is astounding. You think differently therefore you are Racist!
Ridiculous.
Secondly, tex, you mention that Bush spent Billions on a war that should have never happened. Funny how Barry never mentioned escalating operations in Afghanistan as part of his platform, and yet, it may cost us more than Iraq!
I just wish we could be Americans again. It used to mean something.

“Illegals don’t go to emergency rooms because they are afraid”. Obviously you have never been to Parkland Hospital in Dallas Texas….get real, because they do go to emergency rooms and have their babies. In one hour at Parkland hospital, they deliver 50 babies…that is right 50 babies in one hour. Parkland estimates that 70% of the babies they deliver are to illegals
I don’t have a problem with illegals getting medical care, but make them pay for it. If you have to go to a hospital in Mexico (god bless you if you do) you have to pay first before they will treat you…so turn around is far play. Beside we spend over 2 billion dollars in health care treatment to illegals. Anyone from California? Would you like to tell us how much illegals cost your state?

The empty suit is aliar, and there’s proof if only his supporters want to know about it. Of course, if you’re a marxist, it’s OK to lie.

I can understand Congressman Wilson frustration. Two attempts to offer amendments to require checking of immigration status (i.e, weed out the illegals) were narrowly defeated. Without verification there is likely to be a large number of illegals (they have shown the willingness to break our laws) that will apply for and receive government subsidies for health care. The stimulus legislation also did not provide for any verification of those employed eligibility to work in the U.S. So stimulus projects will ultimately hire hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. Thus the Reid/Pelosi led congress has taken the approach to say the illegals not eligible put provide also a path for fraud.

Once Obama passes an amnesty bill it wont matter — He will have the illegals covered, but say they are now legal!!! —- He is such a Chicago con artist!!!

Do we have the guts to bill Mexico for the illegals medical expenses.Is Obama brave enough to propose this solution. ?

Since the Cash for Clunkers Program is over now, here are the prelimianry results.
A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline.
A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.
So, the average clunker transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year.
They claim 700,000 vehicles – so that ‘ s 224 million gallons / year.
That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
5 million barrels of oil is about ¼ of one day ‘ s US consumption.
And, 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75/bbl.
So, we all contributed to spending $3 billion to save $350 million.
How good a deal was that ???
They ‘ ll probably do a great job with health care though!!

Remember the multi-million dollar bonuses given to top executives? There was no provision in that bill to allow it. There was also no provision to prevent it, so it happened. Oops. Now they want to pass a bill that does not have language to provide aid only to American citizens. Another oops?
We should take care of American citizens who for some reason cannot take care of themselves. Aliens with legal status should pay cash or go home. Illegal aliens should pay cash and go home. We have an obligation to care for our citizens. We have no obligation to care for the citizens of other nations. Make them stable enough to travel and send them home. We owe them nothing more.
Yes I know I’m cold hearted. I’m also a citizen of a nation so far in debt that we will never get out. We can no longer afford to take care of the world.

rukidding55, not only am I from CA, I’m from LA! I wrote a few pages back, talk to any illegal around here and they will happily say “only idiots pay taxes”. Then use all our services. lol. Also, it’s the same here with anchor babies.

There is a palpable despondency among those who were once Mr. Obama’s most fervent supporters. They thought he would unify the country, but instead he has shown himself to be a petty, polarizing partisan with an agenda far to the left of mainstream, moderate America.
It’s a pity. So much hope, so suddenly dashed.

Your Clunkers equation is missing a few factors. You only calculate for one year, but we would save however long it took that person to trade in their car without the programs – so it could be 1-5years or more per individual. You have to multiply the annual savings by that. You also assume the price of gasoline to be stable which it is for the moment, but only for the moment.
You also ingore the cost of closing hundreds of dealership due to lack of income. And the economic impact such a ripple effect would have on an already fragile economy.
But besides that you’ve thought of everything. ;)

“…a public option cannot give you the current level of care…”
That’s what we’re counting on. Too many Americans who are working still don’t earn enough to have any current level of care. It should be better.
If the market economy is so good for health care than why do we pay more and get less HC than so many countries with a govt. plan?

LOL! I should. Actually many people I know are leaving. It’s sad. When I get older I will probably move, but it’s fun right now.

Jake, fact check Obama’s whole speech, you will find alot more lies.
Obama is first and foremost a Politician who is part of the status quo.
He will lie and tell the american people what they want to hear and not tell you what lies beneath the real agenda.
Like, what was the whole back door dealings with Pharma?
For those of you slobbering over his speech last night.. you are in for a rude awakening of your hero.

Thank you Jimbo….we need much much better reporting from Main Stream Media.

-Like, what was the whole back door dealings with Pharma?-
I missed that on CSPAN.

At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion.
The House Ways and Means Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990 (a figure that included an allowance for inflation).
This was a supposedly “conservative” estimate.
But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that Medicare would cost $223 billion by 1997.
By 2008 Medicare’s total cost was $454 billion dollars using more than 11 percent of the entire federal budget.
Today, the Social Security Administration which Medicare is part of, announced in it’s 75 year projection, that we would have to increase taxes 134% or cut services by 50% to remain solvent in the near and long term.

Been in a hospital lately OB-wan 222? Insurance or no,if you show up in an ER you will get the best medical AND nursing care in the world.If the President’s proposals are enacted you can say goodbye to that.

“Obama is first and foremost a Politician who is part of the status quo. [A Politician] will lie and tell the american people what they want to hear and not tell you what lies beneath the real agenda.”
Well at least we can agree about that. The Pres. is a politician and politicians lie. That doesn’t make him any different from any other politician. There have been plenty of lies shouted out recently by the opposition.
So if all politicians lie why are you so upset? Maybe some of you should ask yourselves if there’s some other reason you get so angry other than the fact that he’s a politician.

Oh, we can’t talk about Whole Foods on here, because the leftist wingers are very angry at the liberal Whole Foods bossman who dared upend the apple cart by offering up his own solution which was way too close to a Republican approach.

-That doesn’t make him any different from any other politician.-
Hope and Change. Fool me once…

GO SEN. JOE WILSON!!
I was told by a LIBERAL friend of mine awhile back, that he HATED the Republicans controlled the White House, The Senate, and The House all together! He also said that he thought is was a BAD IDEA to EVER have one party be in control off all branches of The Federal Gov’t! I’m sure to elaborate on our conversation further, in real-time, I bet he also would have condemned the slightest thought of a FILIBUSTER-PROOF MAJORITY (as we see today with the Democrats)!
What is going on here folks?!
We have ONE HONEST SENATOR STAND-UP…THAT’S IT?? WE NEED MORE CONSERVATIVES/LIBERTARIANS/CONSTITUTIONALISTS/AND JUST PLAIN REAL-AMERICANS TO JOIN UP AND “STAND-UP” TO THE “LIES”!
If you love America, please make this administration tell us THE TRUTH, and hopefully in 100 pages, or less – SERIOUSLY!! Anye more than that, come’on you KNOW you’re , right.

Republicans offered two amendments in the Ways and Means, and Energy and Commerce Committees that were rejected by Democrats. The first would have prevented illegal immigrants from being automatically enrolled into Medicaid and the second would have required better screening for applicants for federally-subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or legal immigrants.

“What is going on here folks?…
If you love America, please make this administration tell us THE TRUTH, and hopefully in 100 pages, or less…”
Well, too much of one party probably isn’t good, but you see, we had this thing called an “election” – and that’s what happened here.
AS for you 100 page rule are you sure that isn’t too much? Would you like us to fit it on a bumper sticker?
It’s a complex problem and it requires a well-thought-out approach. And in fairness to the people who have to figure out a way to make this work – would it be too much to ask some of you to read the thing before you pretend to know what it says?
Just asking.

“AS for you 100 page rule are you sure that isn’t too much? Would you like us to fit it on a bumper sticker?”
OMG That’s a good one.

-OMG That’s a good one.-
Short enough for Barry to read? Not that reading stuff is important.

“I bet he also would have condemned the slightest thought of a FILIBUSTER-PROOF MAJORITY (as we see today with the Democrats)!”
CaptainAmerica | Sep 10, 2009 11:37:38 PM
The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority. Republicans managed to drag it out long enough that Senator Kennedy died. They may not have 60 seats again until next year.

There are many ways for the health system to over ride and get around federal rules about health benefits to illegals.
It is done everyday.
When a family’s children need expensive transplants a serious medical care, the social service system intercedes and has them adopted out to families that would qualify them as residents to receive the care they need. It is done everyday at huge expenses, millions and millions of dollars of monies spent that Americans have no access to because resources are so slim as a result.
SO what are they talking about. There will always be a way around the system… And huge sums of money are never spared in the name of medical treatments.
It is all a joke to hear them lie to the American Public faces about what is really going to happen

Well, when UPS starts delivering letters for .44cents instead of $16, then the market will be competitive with the US Post Office.
Yeah, competitive:
The USPS lost $2.4 billion in the quarter ended in June and projects a net loss of $7 billion in fiscal 2009, outstanding debt of more than $10 billion and a cash shortfall of $1 billion.

“G”, so what would you have them do? Let these kids die because they are here illegally? Aside from the obvious ethical and moral questions (thank God your not a doctor), I got another one: do you sanction what Germany did during WWII(?), because what you are advocating is just about the same.

And how does FedEx reward its American employees that are responsible for their success?
Dec. 2008…The package delivery company FedEx reported a higher quarterly profit, meeting expectations, but announced pay cuts for its salaried staff and said it was suspending retirement plan contributions.
Another fine American company doing its best for America.

Laws have been on the books to prevent illegals from working in the US for 2 decades, but that didn’t stop 10+ million illegals from getting jobs in the US. The US gov’t does nothing, not even when the SSA knows illegals are using Americans’ identities.
Obama’s a liar because he’s saying the politically convenient thing even though it goes against his whole concept of health care reform.
The whole crux of the Dems health care reform plan is having everyone insured. That won’t work if there are 10 million illegal aliens without health care, relying on emergency rooms as their primary care doctors.
The Dems want the illegals legalized and on a path to citizenship. Pretending like they’re going to be left out of the health care reform is insane. In fact, the health insurance companies must be salivating over the idea that 8-10 million healthy young illegal aliens will be paying them a monthly premium.

I think your wrong saying Republicans want the HC to fail. They just want it done RIGHT and FAIR to the American people. Obama has created more debt this year than I can care to talk about. My children should not have no pay the price because he wants to make a difference so (LEFT). Then the American voters choice yes or no to the plan, put it in plain english. DOn’t use attorney mubo jumbo that no one understands.

secondlook
It indeed has been confirmed by the AP and Fact check and other sources that Illegals would be covered

second look
also the point is that people on the left and the right need to accept blue dog proposals or you might be run over!

jg I just got a new factcheck tonight that said the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Do you people have selective reading as well? Here, let me copy it for you: Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar………. Now, you want to try another lie? Cauz I am SICK TO DEATH of the flipping lying.

“there are those who don’t believe in any government assistance at all they would rather see millions go broke and die from lack of care”…….. No kidding. It sure seems this way.

“Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan.” – POTUS
Anyone believe that and willing to admit it?

WHAT DREAM… 8 months and nothing much Posted by: jg
well your right here…….. Obama has not solved all of america’s problems in the time since his election……….. 2 wars, crashed economy, massive unemployment from a collapsed economy, bank failures on a massive scale… etc., health care reform…rebuilding the economy and jobs
I am glad that you have established a time frame , 8+ months .. the success of all future presidents will be measured against that time frame……

Oh look, that was easy. It appears Bush spent the entire month of August during his first year out at his ranch: Roemer then asked Tenet if he mentioned Moussaoui to President Bush at one of their frequent morning briefings. Tenet replied, “I was not in briefings at this time.” Bush, he noted, “was on vacation.” He added that he didn’t see the president at all in August 2001. During the entire month, Bush was at his ranch in Texas. “You never talked with him?” Roemer asked. “No,” Tenet replied. By the way, for much of August, Tenet too was, as he put it, “on leave.”

Obama wants our government to control the automotive industry, health care, the internet and so on…
To all the stupid idiots that voted for Obama ‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^›

Last evening President Obama said “the insurance executives, now they’re not bad people. . ”
Hannity went on his show today and said “Obama said the insurance execs were bad people.”
FOX LIES.

Oh, look at that, did you see what he did?
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Using art to forward his agenda. Where would he get an idea like that?

Fox is the worst of the bunch. This is why I’m so tired of that argument. They claim biased press is so unfair. Over on Fox they promote pure propaganda and these fools can’t even see thru it. They make up stuff. Hannity lies (I’ve caught him before). Beck the pansy makes up stuff. Meanwhile everybody supporting that station says it’s the most fair and balanced.
I think it’s hopeless. They’re completely brainwashed. Yes, we have some issues with our press. But Fox is by far the worst one. And they could care less as long as it promotes this illness they all now seem to be afflicted with. The illness of stupidity or something.

“I’m willing to admit that the others sometimes lie if you’re willing to admit that FOX sometimes lies.”
Sure as long as we agree that “lies” is a hyperbolic tool used by partisan nutters on both sides, that isn’t really accurate when it comes to the press – at least not generally. Lies evokes intent and would qualify in some of the scandals that have embroiled the media over the years. So while CNN and FOX slant their news, both aren’t actively engaged in “lying” the way the nutter portray them.

“As a medical professional…”
OOoookkkkkaaaayyyy.
Ladies & Gentlemen I give up the American Health Care Professional…. the best in the world.

So to continue my earlier thought…
For example, Dan Rather’s phony Texas National Guard smear during the 2004 election cycle would qualify as an an outright lie. CNN’s omission of key facts while doing a fact check would not…at least I like to let the benefit of doubt to account for sloppiness and reflexive biases to enter in.

I’m sorry, but someone in Washington does not know just what the hell is happening in the real world!
Go to any hospital emergency room on any night and tell me what percentage of the patients are freeloaders … either illegals or just non-working minorities!
If you really expect to see a doctor within the first 3 hours, you had best show up on a gurney or dripping blood in a profuse manner – a 12 inch knife sticking in your chest does sort of speed things up a bit. Otherwise, you can count on a 3-6 hour wait.
Oh, and the rules posted in the waiting room only apply to white patients. I mean the ones that say NO FOOD OR DRINK ALLOWED. I have actually seen a freeloader family, there were 6 or 7 of them, call and have food delivered to them while they were waiting. None of them were too ill to eat, so why were they in an ‘Emergency Room’ in the first place. Oh, and they did not police up their mess when they were finished. Their trash was still sitting there when they left!
Sorry, Obama, but we are already supporting the illegals and the lazy!

“Where’s the left wing nutters claiming that Fox News is full of lies? CNN is running around with a new “poll” claiming that the president’s approval on health care is up 14 points after the speech, the problem is is that they sample 27% more Dems than Repubs!
“The sample of speech-watchers in this poll was 45 percent Democratic and 18 percent Republican. Our best estimate of the number of Democrats in the voting age population as a whole indicates that the sample is about 8-10 points more Democratic than the population as a whole.” – CNN
Gee if your breaks are 45-18-37 (indep.) instead of 37-34-29 you think just maybe you skewed your poll way to the left? Actually, when you redistribute the numbers across acceptable distributions the President went down according to CNN’s polling not up. But hey, only Fox lies, right?”
BH | Sep 11, 2009 1:20:35 AM
So you’re claiming CNN lies based on the facts CNN clearly provided in their story? That’s absurd. You do realize that you’re expected to read more than a headline, right? The CNN poll was skewed (the audience for the talk was skewed too), and they clearly stated exactly how it was skewed; that’s not lying, it’s not even deceptive. Compare that to something like Rasmussen with their black-box, proprietary ‘likely voter model adjustments’ that they do not reveal.

Remember when things were more civil and congressman didn’t call presidents liars?
“You don’t have money to fund the war or children. But you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement” -
D – Cal and piece of work Pete Stark in 2007 on the floor of the house.

As for the other media its judgemental rather a statement crosses the ethical boundary, but John Stossel for instance has been called out a lot for exagerrating his reports.
Posted by: OB-Wan222 |
Stossel is going to work for Fox where he will be easier to keep an eye on.

The CBS News poll said Obama’s approval rating soared from 62 percent to 69 percent after the speech.

Saul Alinsky is a manipulator. How does it feel to have an Alinsky student hold to highest office in the land. Suckers!

Only makes sense to allow them to purchase the insurance. We pay anyway and being what is proposed for now is Private insurance, do we prevent it now?
This whole issue is a non starter. It is just another bogeyman. Why do these people so love to hate?
Need has no borders

The CBS News poll said Obama’s approval rating soared from 62 percent to 69 percent after the speech.
Wow! 69 percent approval is really excellent!

Rep. Joe Wilson claims spontaneity in his defense for his outburst Wednesday. However, if you listen to the broadcast closely, the exact same words “you lie” can be heard being uttered not once, but TWICE. The first time went essentially unnoticed by media outlets (or at least it was not pointed out). While it is not clear who uttered statement the first time. The voice tone and inflection sound exactly the same, just not quite as loud as the second utterance. Coupled with his Labor Day tweet promising constituents to “relay” opposition to Obama’s plan in D.C. and the less-than-sincere seeming (and apparently forced) apology, this smells like a well-planned demonstration of disrespect to the presidency.

DK – The difference is, is that “Illegals” should not be here in the first place.

the fact remains that they dont have the money to pay for it partly because illegals get free health care in emergency rooms so people like Kucinich who came out in 2004 supporting single payer are not that crazy after all and Obama was not touting his own plan it was the baucus one… there is no coordination and a failure to lead to get things done

More shilling for Obama?
You see, we are ALREADY paying for illegal immigrant health care. Any time they show up at a non-profit hospital they are required by law to be treated. In fact, hospitals all across the southwest are going bankrupt due to this problem. Funny you didn’t mention that.
So yeah. Obama lies, his press secretary lies, and you lie for them.
Ken

Every President deserves respect and nearly everyone (including me) will agree that Mr. Wilson crossed the line. He also apologized for his mouth running ahead of his brain.
But, I can’t help but wonder how many “outraged” Obama supporters were “extremely satisfied and delighted” when President Bush was actually assaulted in Iraq at the famous shoe throwing incident. I both laugh at and pity those people who have such double standards that, to them, their respect for our President only extends to their own party. I can only wonder why our media is so tilted to one side of the aisle that they did not report outrage for such an overtly offensive gesture towards the office of the President when Mr. Bush was attacked.

JG – Media reports just cannot be trusted, the mainstream media has zero credibility. Although mostly a left-wing bias dominates the news, Fox is not exactly my idea of objective either. A large chunk of Fox stock is owned by Saudi Arabian interests so how objective do you think that makes them?
The New York Times & the L.A. Times have become a joke. The Washington Post is not far behind. CNN & the BBC are not much different from Al-Jazeera.
We have developed a professional political class not unlike the same phenomenon in Europe – they are generally out of touch with ordinary people, are generally only motivated by self-interest, & have zero principles.
Rather than expose them for the frauds that they are, media covers for them, sycophants is the polite term.
An army of ”experts” from academia have become apologists for a wide variety of really screwy ideas. George Orwell, I believe, said that there are some ideas so stupid only an intellectual could believe them.

JT:
You know that Illegal immigrants will be covered. Why else would the Democrats sit there and refrain from boos, hisses and catcallls when Obama said illegals would not be covered? Why? Because they have defeated two Republican proposed amendments that tightened the restrictions in illegals participation. You failed to mention this. Continue covering for your idol MSM.

So let’s get this straight: HR 3200 is/was the Bill that was supposed to reform health care. This is the Bill everyone in Congress and the House is familiar with that, using vague language, left it open for providing care to illegals, paying for abortions, and providing government end of life decisions. This is the Bill that the entire legislation had to work with.
Now suddenly Obama pulls a rabbit out of his hat in the form of a “new plan” so that he can conveniently point fingers at all his dissenters to say “see my plan doesn’t have these controversial measures therefore you are all lying”. He waves his pointy finger around abusing the office of the Presidency to disparage other Americans and abusing his power to call those who truthfully point out the problems within HR 3200 slandering them as liars – and we’re all supposed to believe that Joe Wilson’s remark was ‘uncourteous’. Obama disparaged the Presidency not Joe.
Obama disparaged himself by abusing his power of the presidency to appear more like a South American Dictator publicly accusing dissenters of lying when in fact they were truthfully pointing out problems with HR 3200 – the Bill that apparently as of last night, no longer exists.
There is no change with Obama – he is a sneaky politician and the only change, I suppose is that this politician is now using South American style oppressive tactics: detract and swing wild at anybody who disagrees.
It’s a matter of time before he starts shutting down media outlets. Just watch.

The Emperor Has No Clothes!
(read the story again sometime)

EPU – Maybe Obama has been talking with his buddy Chavez. Cutting off aid to Honduras is a new low in American foreign policy. Face it, the guy likes dictators. While we are all talking about health care, our foreign policy has become a disaster. Iran is fast on its way to becoming a nuclear power & what are we doing about it? Nothing much. Worse, Obama will be at the U.N. (that nice corrupt anti-American organization of Third-World tyrants & European invertebrates) to talk GENERALLY about nuclear disarmement without any SPECIFIC countries singled out just to get a nice photo-op.
This is even worse than that loser Jimmy Carter. Boy, are we in trouble!

first of all, any attempt by abc or other MSM lapdog outlets to present facts about anything will be met with cynicism and mistrust- come on, everyone knows you all are in the tank for bo. secondly, the house bill clearly states that illegal aliens will be covered. joe wilson spoke up becuase he’s in the know about this- he sat in on a subcommittee hearing on such a subject. look, barry’s eloquent speech cannot change the facts about this bill. he promises everything to everyone (coverage for all, no additional debt, no more costs)- PLEEZ. the cbo says otherwise. all this is truly insulting to my intelligence. and this idea of investigating the possiblity of’limited’ tort reform is a joke- a bone thrown to moderate reublicans to drink the koolaid with the rest of them.i dont buy any of this

The U.S. Gov’t. is ALREADY bankrupt, I just read the number as slightly over 100 TRILLION Dollars.
We are going down the tubes – don’t worry about paying for illegal aliens, That’s the least of our financial problems.
Just to satisfy anyone’s curiosity, I read an article at the American Thinker website. Check it out for yourself.

He’s a liar.

WhatChange – ok, then name and source the lies…..man-up.

I understand the Southern Senator was going to throw a shoe, but, he wasn’t wearing any!

Obama’s lies are Sarah Palin’s fault!

“secondly, the house bill clearly states that illegal aliens will be covered.”———–the bill is online so site the article that states what you say……cite a source……put up or shut up…..and that goes for all of you!!!

And Obama’s abusing the office of president surprises you NOW??? He’s done so since his second day in office. He’s done nothing but push his own agenda the entire time he’s been there. I cannot believe that the people of this country fell for his rhetoric and promises. He’s going to have his way.. one way or another.. that’s his personality. I read the original bill, it includes care for illegal aliens whether you want to believe it or not. Whether he wants us to know it or not, anyone who can read and is WILLING to read it; knows what it really says. So.. he lied, yet again to get his way.
Is this really what you voted for? A dictatorship?

The democrats voted DOWN all amendments that would have had an eligibility requirement. THis goes beyond “emergency” care — we are talking about all kinds of care.
Joe Wilson is rude but right. For Jake Tapper not to inform the readers about the three times this issue came up for a vote, and the democrats REFUSED to put in writing eligibility and citizenship requirements is just nuts.

No, the bill does not say that illegals will be covered, but Yes they will be. How? The enforcement part that was in the bill has been removed. If there is any enforcement at all, it will be very little only for media show. I will also guarantee you that Obama will be pushing to make all current illegals, legal, mark my words. So yes, illegals will be covered in this health care bill monstrocity.

Joe Wilson for president
Posted by: maria | Sep 11, 2009 5:57:26 AM
He’d certainly ignite strong opposition. Do you consider his membership in Sons of Confederate Veterans controversial or radical? I don’t really believe in guilt by association, but the right wing has pushed that sort of thing and this is a group that has been taken over by radical neo-Confederates (including white supremacist, Kirk Lyons) who favor secession and defend slavery as a benign institution. Wilson also has a history of inappropriate comments (see Strom Thurmon’s illegitimate daughter.) Perhaps, he ought to worry about holding on to his congressional seat first.

Mississippi new state motto “Thank God for South Carolina”.
Rep Joe Wilson’s opponent has raised OVER $700,000 since his famous 2 words. LOL

Don’t you people realize that no matter their legal status when the bill passes, the Dems have the votes to make them all legal after reform passes? Voila! They will then be covered. When are the voters in this country, both parties, going to study candidates and their REAL beliefs and plans BEFORE jumping on the best sounding bandwagon? This whole thing in this country is just as bad as under Bush, for different reasons and in different ways (except for the economy – that is both parties” doing), but every bit as bad.

“Rep Joe Wilson’s opponent has raised OVER $700,000 since his famous 2 words. LOL”
I think this is GREAT! Keep the contributions coming liberal digital carpetbaggers… This means there will be LESS money available to go to Dems in races that will be MUCH TIGHTER than this one! Great job!
Joe Wilson by 15%-20% in 2010.

indiethinker, if the gop spent us to the edge of financial ruin, then what are we now since obama has spent more of chinas money on our behalves than every president from george washington to george w bush. if spending bothers you, please be honest and tell us what you think about obamas spending.china takes that money and builds up their military with it. theyd better if they expect to come collecting on our debt. we wont have the means to pay them back unless we print it. and it will be worth nothing. see how china likes that little joke.

I am a staunch opponent to ex-president shrub and his do nothing policies to improve conditions for the underpaid, and enhance support for the bloated rich of my home land (United States). But, I was appalled at the shoe throwing incident. I would think that having other nations respect our political leaders an important basis for real action. How can we expect to have beneficial negotiations when there is little respect?
We are a spectacle to ourselves, an amusing side-show of crazies shouting isms that provoke the uninformed to come out in droves to protest imaginary demons. I think we will survive. Chill-out, please.

Wednesday night I thought Wilson’s outburst was a little out of line. After watching a few minutes of MSNBC last night, I’m sending the guy a political donation!
This country has gone nuts! A person can not even disagree with policy without being labeled a racist and metaphorically being tarred and feathered by the radical left.
None of these clowns ever demonstrated respect for the past administration, but I hoped we conservatives could be above that sort of thing. Well, I’m changing my mind. Fire with fire, etc.

unless i misunderstood, the president said that if you have insurance through your employer, through the VA, or through medicare/medicaid, you won’t lose your coverage. what was conspicuously absent was mention of those of us who purchase private health insurance. i have a health savings account that i purchase privately. will i be allowed to keep that? i know at one point that there was talk that the proposed health care legislation would do away with HSA’s. if that’s true, doesn’t that mean that i won’t be able to keep the coverage with which i am currently satisfied? anyone out there know the answer to this question?

We will pay for this Health care using the “Performing Artists” income – ACORN, SEIU.

“international human rights guidelines”
Huh? Do not our (U.S.) laws supercede any “international human rights guidelines”?
I realize love the “we are the world” platform, but we are still a sovereign nation… (and an “exceptional” one at that, despite all the clowns in DC)

Alyson | Sep 11, 2009 10:08:15 AM
…..Yes. My currently unanswered question is, “What will prevent illegal alens from gettting healthcare?” Nothing stops them from flooding Parkland hospital in Dallas, now.

Posted by: Alyson | Sep 11, 2009 10:08:41 AM
Well, I have had the pleasure of watching the deplorable antics of left-wing loons for the past 8 years. To now see them feign some type of outrage over Wilson’s correct observation is more than disingenuous.
Just completed making a donation to Mr. Wilson. Not ready for the T-Shirts just yet, but I will keep an open mind on that topic.

Please please please… can 2010 and 2012 hurry up and get here? My pathetic, lying, cowardly, constituent attacking slime of a rep (Doggett) will not be enjoying his re-election campaign with thousands of us following him to every stop and reminding voters of what he said and the attacks he made and the fact that he chose party above constituency.
2012? it cannot get here soon enough. Obama has been a far bigger disaster than most of us thought. The man doesn’t think or act like an American president – he doesn’t love this country, he loves what he wants to turn this country in to and his policies betray ever core value this country holds dear. He can’t be run out of town on a rail fast enough for the majority of Americans.
I’m surprised he didn’t claim the same old ignorant lie about an overwhelming majority of Americans supporting him – apparently he and the brain dead DNC think the 60% of registered voters (ie. roughly 80% of the population) that didn’t vote for this charlatan aren’t smart enough to know we don’t support socialism and his idiotic government intervention and power grab schemes.
Carter will look like a God compared to this clown.

“All those illegal ‘Alens’ don’t really clog up our emergency rooms. It doesn’t really drain our finances the way large corporations do. The uber-rich companies drain the middle and lower class of their finances and continually pay off congress to diminish taxes for themselves. When middle class America starts to wake up to the way corporate America gets to play without paying, the same old dog and pony show starts up again (Tea Parties and the like). It is just a large distraction generated to protect the uber-wealthy against taking responsibility to improve the lives of the people who make them rich.

The uber-rich companies drain the middle and lower class of their finances and continually pay off congress to diminish taxes for themselves. When middle class America starts to wake up to the way corporate America gets to play without paying, the same old dog and pony show starts up again (Tea Parties and the like). It is just a large distraction generated to protect the uber-wealthy against taking responsibility to improve the lives of the people who make them rich.
Posted by: Jeanna | Sep 11, 2009 11:19:36 AM
***
Many of these people don’t see it and don’t want to.

indiethinker… your lame argument that Clinton left Bush a surplus just shows that you spew talking points without any real knowledge of the truth. Here are the FACTS.. The Clinton Administration balanced 2 ANNUAL budgets in 98 and 99.. that means that for those two years (successive years actually, since budgets are for the following year) the US collected more taxes than they spent.. The first surplus was spent to buy Social security back into the black. the second was spent to pay down INTEREST on the national debt.. This means that for that year alone, the debt did not increase. Interestingly, Clinton had democratic control of congress for 4 of his eight years yet the only two years that the budget got balanced was when the congress (who writes the budget) was controlled by republicans. As far as a surlpus goes, there is a huge difference between an annual budget and the deficit. Budgets span one year, while the deficit is the cumulative debt built up over time and is compounded each time we spend more than we take in and by interest charges on the unpaid balance (like a credit card).. The National debt when Clinton took office was $3.8 trillion. When he left office it was $5.1 trillion. In case you can’t do the math, Clinton RAISED the national debt by $1.3 trillion during his term (and this increase was despite 2 surplus years). Stop saying that Bush inherited a surplus.. That is an unequivocally false statement.
Now lets compare Obama with Bush as far as spending goes. In eight years, Bush ran the debt from 5.1 to 9.6 trillion. thats an increase of 4.5 trillion dollars (several republicans lost their congressional seat because of spending.. that a large part of why the Dems have a majority now). Obams has a single year overrun of 1.6 trillion and counting. The healthcare bill will add another 1 trillion and an additional 260 billion per year if enacted. The GAO estimates that at the current rate, the deficit will be 13 trillion by 2010 (two years from now) – thats an increase of over 2 trillion per year and represents 4 TIMES the spending rate of the Bush administration.. by comparison to Obama, Bush seems fiscally responsible..

Posted by: Alyson | Sep 11, 2009 11:36:51 AM
If I could make any sense out of that at all, I would respond.

If we muzzled him…. then we’d never have the pleasure of watching him chew himself on national TV.
It says something about a guy…. when he launches into a frothing, historically unprecedented screaming fit about whether or not illegals should be covered. Of course, they are specifically excluded in the bill…. but this guy would rather see NOBODY get health care coverage… just in case a Mexican might get something for free.
That’s the GOP, I guess. What’s next? Abolish clean drinking water…. so the Illegals can’t have any.
Posted by: gobot | Sep 11, 2009 11:29:41 AM
***
Nice points. LOL.

If I could make any sense out of that at all, I would respond.
Posted by: joedoe | Sep 11, 2009 11:39:08 AM
**
Bygones. We’ve seen that people are pretty entrenched in their viewpoints and can’t see the other side of the coin when they throw partisan questions out there and they’re flipped.

Dems put a political hit on him, but…backlash works two ways, ya know?
Posted by: pecan | Sep 11, 2009 11:48:05 AM
***
I think he put the hit on himself, but, bygones he lives in a very red district and clearly, given his current seat, certain sorts of radical associations are more accepted than they would be nationwide– though he didn’t win by much last time, so we’ll see.

If Facebook is any indication—Joe Wilson is on his way back to Congress. Dems put a political hit on him, but…backlash works two ways, ya know?
Posted by: pecan | Sep 11, 2009 11:48:05 AM
*****************
Well, I sent the guy a few bucks this morning and I’m not even in his part of the country. It was more of an Anti-Olbermann gesture for me. lol

I agree that NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT SHOULD GET MEDICAL CARE and I also am awaiting immigration reform! I do support the health care reform and a public option.

he’s some kind of hero on foxnation. Those 20 percenters think they have found Sarah Palin’s running mate for 2012!! LMAO

The celebrated speech seems to contain more fantasies than realities, one of which is that the additional required cost 900 billion dollars can come from saving by reducing the waste and inefficiencies in spending. His statement ” people under health insurance paid by their employers can stay on the same insurance” is not valid if the employers chose to switch to cheaper government run health insurance.

“It is not your right to demand them to give you their time and expertise.”
Posted by: joedoe | Sep 11, 2009 12:49:19 PM
I am a Nurse, and therefore know what goes on behind the scenes in our hospitals. Denying coverage to everyone
who cannot afford it simply because some illegals might get services is not a very good argument. They simply are not a very big consideration in this matter. Anti-reform proponents are using this as a distraction. It would cost more to keep them out, so why bother changing the status quo? Except that the illegals are already receiving care and the point is moot.

“though White House press secretary Robert Gibbs today” – Why would anyone care what Gibbs would have to say at this point. Gibbs is a total hack for the president.

“People are just trying to protect Obama’s image. Why would Amendments making sure that illegals would not further get covered get knocked down by the Dems?” “Anybody have an answer for that?”
Posted by: Mike | Sep 11, 2009 1:08:05 PM
Already answered, In reference to the illegals “They simply are not a very big consideration in this matter. Anti-reform proponents are using this as a distraction.” The anti-reformists use the double speak of “It would cost more to keep them out, so why bother changing the status quo?” I say “Except that the illegals are already receiving care and the point is moot.” Why interrogate people when it is unnecessary?

“Logically there has got to be a reason that the President and the Democrats refuse to write specific language into law. Trust me (???????)Posted by: James L.: James, please enlighten us to your eloquent solution to the illegal alien situation abusing the present broken down health system that America is using now. The Democrats nor the Republicans seem to have a real solution for this. Keeping illegal aliens out of the U.S. works to some degree but will never keep them all away. There will always be people who will be uninsured that will need to visit some place for there medical needs. Emergency and otherwise. Do we allow this situation to be non-managed and let the costs be dictated to the public or should the public (both private and government) put controls in place to MANAGE the costs? These aliens visit our health system in most states of the union and our ability to manage this will not work from thousands of different solutions but can be handled MUCH MORE efficiently from a single system. Any business major can tell you this no matter how much others try to persuade you otherwise. A single solution for these uninsured, both alien and Americans is needed to keep costs under control. There is no other better way to do this no matter how much others try to say it won’t. This is just good common BUSINESS sense. So, if you have another idea, please share it. Thanks!

when he launches into a frothing, historically unprecedented screaming fit gobot – Well bot that pretty much summed up the entire Democratic Congress. You remember them booing at GW during the State of the Union Address right? Or how about when liberals hissed and booed GW at the inaguration. By the way, if liberal Democrats want to make sure that illegals are not covered in this then why do they keep voting down everything that would make them confirm they are here legally?

Joe Wilson is indeed a dishonest, partisan hack who deeply disgraced himself and his party by calling the President a liar. Bush should never have sent him to Niger to investigate those yellowcake rumors in the first place.

joedoe: The problem you seem to be no seeing here is that you are already paying for the inadequacies of our “present” health care solution. Only in the present case you are paying MORE because there are few if any real cost controls and a real inability to prevent abuse. The second issue you do not understand is that the way I have understood it, the private industry takes 30% of every dollar that we pay into our health services to feed the profits required by the private industry. That includes 30% or more to the drug industry and than another %30 percent on top of that to the insurance companies. All of this in not managed to keep real costs down and likewise give EVERYONE appropriate coverage.

mikemcdon321: Don’t know if you have ever heard this before but assume you have but choose to forget it in this case. Lets see here, oh yeah! “Two wrongs to not make a right”. But than may be that is different in your case. May be it goes “Two wrongs are Ok for the Right”

dlboggan – naw…just think how it’s funny that liberals are more than willing to forgive the Democrats for what they did but are more than willing to jump on the ban wagon because now it was a Republican saying it about a Democrat Prez.. however; I’m guessing that if the roles were still reveresed you would be throwing your support behind the Dem cheering him on. Bet you are also one of those that yells racism but cheered liberals on as they yelled racist remarks at Michael Steele

mikemcdon321: No, no and no. I do not yell fire in a crowd, I do respect the person holding the floor, I do want to hear all sides and be fair with my arguments in return and expect the same in return. I do think that two wrongs do not make a right and I do my best to practice what I preach. I also believe that the name-calling and the screaming does not create the atmosphere that is needed for America to create the solutions necessary to resolve today’s issues. I do find it extremely irritating that a small minority of extremists have taken over the ability of the average American on both the right and the left to get this needed solutions worked out for the common good. I am very tired of those that say no to everything and scream and insinuate, and lie to win an argument at ANY cost just to win. This is not the America I grew up in. It is time for the American majority, which includes Democrats and Republicans to take back their voices from these extremists. These extremists also have a greater voice because or main stream media (including ABC) jump on every loud screamer and liar because it brings greater profits. The media has and its journalists have lost the professionalism in bringing the real needs and the proper facts to light to both sides for real honest and respectful discussion. Instead, we hear nothing but lies, deceit, innuendo and screams. The majority loses the extremist minority wins. Is that what you really want. Do you want truth and fairness and real solutions or otherwise? It is up to all Americans to step in and say “ENOUGH”. Each of us needs to change ourselves towards that goal before we can begin to make a difference in society as a whole. Any takers out there?

dlboggan — Outstanding…then let’s work together and start by removing each and every Democrat that ever boo’d, hiss’d and/or called GW a liar. You can start off by posting messages here and sending messages to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi demanding that effectivly they leave their positions then start working down the line.

taxidriver….sorry but you forgot #3. Democrats will vote down any measure that will verify someone’s legal status. something like say Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) that will help prevent illegals from getting Gov provided health care.

Jeanna, well not the rubbish bill the Democrats have put together. Does something need to be done? Yes. Should it be the Democrat Government taking it over? No. But again, maybe the Obama plan of dumping patients doesn’t bother you.

“maybe the Obama plan of dumping patients doesn’t bother you.” Posted by: mikemcdon321 | Sep 11, 2009 3:56:48 PM: Mike, please refrain from speculation and give us some REAL facts that back up your above statement. Does anything said or written mention that anyone is going to be “dumped” (your word) by this bill? Be VERY specific and prove you “assumption”. As I stated in an earlier post. Assumptions, speculations, innuendos and lies do not make it truth or reality. So bring it on. Please!

Dumping people Mike? Really? Did you even read the proposal? There’s a link – use it. You’re an idiot. The proposal SPECIFICALLY prohibits insurance companies from “dumping people”!

“Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) that will help prevent illegal’s from getting Gov provided health care. “Posted by: mikemcdon321 – The Republican scream bloody murder and label it bloody murder every time that Democrats try to provide assistance to those in need. The illegal’s are but a small part of the total problem. Smoke and mirrors. But let us reflect on you SAFE suggestion. Who is to say that the card identification requirement does not bleed into your life. Do you look Latino or are you brown enough to where you get stopped in the street to as for you ID and what do you have to provide but (could be fake?) state drivers license. So now we have to make sure to cover all of the possibilities and what do you know Big Brother has a massive tracking system for ALL Americans. Is this what you want? Big Brother. This is exactly what very few if ANY Republicans would want as an outcome to this solution. So, come again, do you have another great solution or is the Big Brother SAFE solution just right for you Right thinking mind?

Obama plans on legalizing the illegal’s (which are far more than 12 million)” Posted by: PotatoeGater22 | Sep 11, 2009 4:42:09 PM; Potato head. So what is your great scheme to handle these 12 million aliens that the Corporations and small business owners need desperately to replace the more expensive Americans. Do we pick them up off of the streets and ship them back, do we fine the heck out of businesses that use them, do we enforce the laws that should prevent this that are already on the books? 12,000 low wage employees that corporations say out of one side of their mouth should not be here but will hire them in a second if they can get away with it. So, what do you do? What do you, Mr. Potato head suggest that we do? Please, share that with us?

dlboggan: Enjoying your posts. Thanks for giving such rational and thoughtful, insightful, intelligent comments in spite of the irrationalist hate crowd. Keep up the good work.

Why are the Democrats so intent on undermining and ultimately destroying Medicare, Social Security and Private Health Care Insurance that millions of people like and are so dependent on?
The Democrats’ Trillion dollar Health Care Reform Plan will raise an already unsustainable deficit even higher. To say otherwise is not being honest. Higher deficits will further undermine Medicare and Social Security making their coming bankruptcy even more imminent. Once the baby boomers turn 65 there will be a 30% increase in Medicare enrollment. Thus, a 500 billion dollar cut to the Medicare budget will drive another stake into Medicare’s heart.
Moreover, according to the Democrats, due to all the fraud and waste in Medicare, 500 billion can be cut from Medicare without any cuts to services. Which makes a sane person ask why the government has neglected for so many years to rid the system of all this waste and fraud? Answer, because the reality is the inevitable outcome of a 500 billion dollar cut to Medicare are severe cuts to services for Seniors, with little if any abatement to waste and fraud and the Seniors know it. Ditto for the similar government run public option which will be subject to similar drastic cuts at the whim of the President and Congress.
So now that the Democrats have succeeded in gutting the heart out of Medicare and Social Security their knife now goes to the private insurance companies. Never mind 80% of he people are very happy with their private insurance plans.
So in order to sell their plan of a government take over of health care to the people, politicians must lie by telling the people they can keep their private insurance if they like them. The truth is, private insurance cannot compete with a government run tax paid for public option that can regulate private insurance out of business and under cut their prices. As a result, Companies will drop millions of people off of their private insurance plans and force their employees on the public option and the politicians know it.
The regrettable truth is government has proven time and time again that they are an incompetent manager of the peoples money and never keep any of their promises. Despite these facts, the greed for more power and more and more of the peoples money persists and grows like a cancer in their pursuit of a government take over of health care.
In conclusion, the representatives that vote for the Democrats’ Health Care Reform Bill will be voted out of office. This is a given as more and more people see the truth and realize that the ultimate outcome of Health Care Reform will be, higher deficits, higher taxes and fees and the ultimate destruction of Medicare, Social Security and Private Insurance which the majority of people like and are dependent on.

TX_MBell | Sep 11, 2009 6:10:13 PM….Do you thnk that ‘Cadillac tax’ applies to the biggest Cadiie of them all – the Federal health plan?

deanbob | Sep 11, 2009 6:15:07 PM: Your are guessing, speculating and it appears by your posts that you have not put serious thought into your speculations. Speculations, guessing, accusations, lies, etc, are not the truth or factual. Do some real research and get back with us. Please!

The Cadillac that some of you are spouting about is the same program that your Congressmen and Senators are using. This is the type of program that many of the government bill proposals have been based around. But, I guess you don’t want to use that program. Just stay with whatever you have now and let the private industry double the costs of those programs over the next 2-4 years. That has been their track record if you have been paying attention. Is that what you want to continue to allow or am I misunderstanding you?

Medicaid already covers undocumented immigrants in “emergencies.” Several states, California and New York among them, use an expansive definition of “emergency” to include things like routine kidney dialysis. In 2007, California spent more than $51 million for dialysis for undocumented immigrants (“Citizenship often determines who gets medical care,” LA Times, 10/29/08 ). Undocumented immigrants have also received kidney transplants under Medicaid.

dlboggan | Sep 11, 2009 6:29:29 PM…..One of my big concerns is the ballooning debt. With Medicare’s (and to a smaller extent, SS) unfunded liabilities that are growing exponentially as baby boomers enter the program, we are approaching a point of no return. How is this debt going to be paid? We don’t need to add to it, nor cut services to the elderly.

dlboggan….1 last question. If the bill is as good as you (and the Washington Dems) believe, why not include ALL Federal workers in the bill. Thank you for how you’ve responded to the posts you have disagreement with.

Deanbob: Thanks for your suggestions and ideas. In regards to panels of respected/professional people I believe a lot of that was done when the new administration came into office. Remember the furor over the lack of the single payer options being discussed during those panel discussions? I believe it never hurts to continue those discussions but still include the single-payer players in that discussion too. I believe that Obama said during his speech and Senate leader said today that the government option would not have to be their if there were appropriate solutions to the problem coming from the non-public sources. So, I think we both need to wait on that question. I too am concerned by the ballooning debt as all Americans should be. But, how do we take the chaos out of the ballooning costs created by a unregulated and poorly controlled profit based health coverage and services including pharmaceuticals? We cannot just let the profits and services go where ever they want it to go at the cost of the health coverage and services “consumer”. There are a number of great measures in the new government bill that I think addresses a number of these issues. It is not perfect but it is a very good start. Just because the present bill is not perfect now does not mean it cannot be adjusted later. Our foreign competitors have imperfect universal systems but I am sure they are attempting to improve them also. We can do the same. Keeping costs down now with losing the quality of care is very important. What is so sad is all those who have none or very poor coverage that allows them to get worse that in the end creates even greater costs to the American public due to higher premiums and higher taxes. So, I say, bite the bullet now or take a bullet in the gut later. Do it right now to make the future less painful or fail completely later. That is not a hard call for me and make absolute sense. For the illegal aliens that are permeated through out all of America today I cannot see us taking the astronomically expensive and disastrous path to shipping them all out. There are far too many negatives to that solution. I suggest that we enforce the laws that are presently on the books and absorb the rest through the normal citizenship process. Those without those all-important green-cards will not be able to pick up that job, wherever. Enforce the legal ramifications towards corporations and smaller businesses who continue to hire these people. At the same time give them a better competitive edge by make health care more affordable and reliable. There are a lot of things that could be done here. We would have to enhance the oversight programs to enforce these needs but the cost benefits to the country should offset it. More jobs and more tax-paying Americans or green-card holders can offset much of this additional cost. As for including ALL fed workers, I was under the impression that was already so. Correct me if I am wrong or misunderstanding your question. Are you including Congress and the Senate in the new bills plan and even the President? If that is so, than absolutely, YES! What is good for the Gander is good for the goose. What do you think?

Government earmark money is seen as easy money with little accountability. Often the administrators of programs so funded have little qualifications for their positions and are paid salaries considerably higher than the norm. In a recent report I read on the subject excessive travel reimbursements and fees paid to consultants were also potential problems. The program in question was the Citizen-Soldier Support Program (CSSP) in North Carolina which was intended to help soldiers returning from battle assignments. Some of the employees lacked experience in military or health issues and even had politically left leanings.
This an on-going program that has spent several million over the past several years, I mention it only as an example of money that is paid where the recipients don’t have to look anyone in the eye to receive it. The government is terrible on oversight as can be seen with TARP and stimulus earmarks. Healthcare and “cap and trade” if implemented will just be more of the same, look at what ACORN is doing at present with “wink and nod” oversight. No my friends, a “nanny government”, more big government, is not the answer. Our congress is inept (intentionally so) in rolling back its own salaries (the average congressional salary is a ludicrous $130K higher than street salaries/wages) so how can one believe it can oversee these programs. Also, the programs would be managed by Czars which are not beholden to congress and answer only to the president (of late it seems that the congress answers only to the president also).

“Hmmm. I smell a big ol’ rat.” Posted by: Bridget | Sep 11, 2009 10:34:05 PM: – And that big ol rat, Bridget, is you. NO WHERE in the ‘official’ unapproved bill that resides at the congressional web site does it mention ACORN. Please explain why you chose to throw YOUR idea of ACORN as an example for the commissioner on this section. This is just another very good example of another extremist scare tactic to mislead the general public against a national health plan the Corporations are spending in excess of more than 1 million dollars a day to prevent. The introduction of this bill is titled with “H.R.3200 – America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009
To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes” Why does this scare people such as yourself so much. This program is for everyone. For you to create such distortions from the truth or to make speculate falsehoods to misled the rest of us make you the RAT. Lies, distortions, speculation, innuendos, and untrue distractions are not truth or reality. Get it right and come up with appropriate useful and constructive solutions or keep your distortions to yourself. Thanks!

Jake,
If Democrats are supposed opposed to illegals getting coverage why did they vote AGAINST the bill that the GOP put out that would not allow illegals to be covered? Funny how facts get in the way.

The gathering in Minnesota for Obama today makes the tea party in Washington look like a backyard little girl tea pary. The careful setting of the cameras in our capital does not hide the obvious, the tea party express is not the huge thing Fox tried to make it.
I think this whole take our government gack thing is just the health insurance corporation BS.

Republicans are trying to deter even the slightest change in BIG corporate profits by throwing in a totally different issue. Immigration mess needs to be dealt with ASAP, but health care is a basic human right and you can’t play the-other-issue card at all.
FIX BOTH!

Don’t try your stupid double speak on us. We know that argueing details instead of fixing loopholes is the agenda and the purpose is to not pass the one thing most citizens want, and that is the public option. Anti-reformists are using every trick they can to block the public option, but we are not fooled. If public option is not in the bill, those who blocked it will not have public service in their future.

What part of they already get free care is so hard for you guys to understand?
It’s stupid to argue against them actually paying something into this. It would save us money.

dlboggan writes: “But, how do we take the chaos out of the ballooning costs created by a unregulated and poorly controlled profit based health coverage and services including pharmaceuticals?”
Let me guess — turn the controls over to another unregulated, chaotic group…who have completely forgotten who they work for?
And are you, by any chance, one of them?
dlboggan also writes: “We cannot just let the profits and services go where ever they want it to…”
I had to read that one a few times.
I think everyone here should.
I’m curious, though.
Just what is it about “profit” that so frightens people like Obama..and the Castros…and Chavez….and you?

Check out my 3 minute commenatry on the healthcare debate. Don’t forget the uninsured
I am very saddened by the selfish tone of the healthcare debate. More people seemed worried about theorectically loosing what they have than with the reality that many don’t have any insurance at all. What do you think?
Watch my commentary here: LTH WEEKLY
George C

DJH writes: “2012? it cannot get here soon enough. Obama has been a far bigger disaster than most of us thought. The man doesn’t think or act like an American president – he doesn’t love this country, he loves what he wants to turn this country in to and his policies betray ever core value this country holds dear. He can’t be run out of town on a rail fast enough for the majority of Americans.”
Well said, DJH!
Obama doesn’t think or act like an American president, because he simply has no idea what it means.
He spent his formative years under a foreign educational system. He hasn’t a clue about American history. And so, as even his own wife said, publicly — he plans to “change” our history.
Yes, she actually said that.
Indeed, the Obama’s are radical left revisionists.
They even hope to expand that ideology, to include “changing” our past, as well as socializing our future.
Don’t laugh — it’s been done before.
And Obama does have some knowledge of world history. He fully understands the indoctrination of the young, and the stupid.
So, DJH, joedoe, Freedom, and the rest of you here who can see the real Obama agenda — know that you are NOT in the minority!
This is still OUR game, being played out on OUR board….and we’re very familiar with the Founding rules.
Join one of your local patriot groups!
If you haven’t any, locally — start one!

i own a small bussiness with 7 employees and if any file for a credit for insurance i will be charged 400.00 for each employee if only 1 applies.7×4 =2800.00 . 2800.00 out of my small business means 2 people hit the street unemployed.iam tired of paying everbodys way.each day that goes by gets tougher on the little man.my deductiable is 3000.00 just so i can pay 900.00amonth for my wife and i to have insurance.the american way i say no way! the bs president we have is an idiot. tax the middle class and give it to everybody else. sure i love to work 15 hrs a day 7 days a week and share the wealth.maybe the wealth sharing should be shared with the work.we dont need a nanny state, im tired of all this bs.the government has on its mind.its time the people have a say

James wrote:
“maybe the wealth sharing should be shared with the work”
It absolutely should, James.
And yes, Obama is targeting our
middle class.
That’s because socialism cannot be implemented until the middle class has diminished into total poverty.
Because, socialism has room for only two classes — the impoverished, and a select handful of reigning elite.
A large middle class is not only fit enough to rebel against tyranny, but also has the most to lose.
Yet, even the working poor, with little to show for their labor, might still take pride in what they’ve managed to accomplish.
Because poverty isn’t shameful.
But becoming resigned to stay in it, blaming others for it, or expecting others to pay you out of it — is.
And you’re right about giving, James.
Unless one has enough to share, how is he even capable of doing so?
So, your comment about “the nanny state” is right on point.
Obama would like nothing better than to be the source of all of our needs.
Because, that’s what gives the socialist dictator power over everyone else.
He controls all of the necessary commodities, choosing when they are to be redistributed, in what quantities, and to whom.
And health care is certainly one of those commodities!
So, is it any wonder that the “redistribution of wealth” has been one of Obama’s most highly promoted goals?
Or, that some of the world’s dictators are among his most honored acquaintances?
He studies them, you see.
However, he doesn’t seem to realize that the peoples they’ve managed to enslave…
weren’t Americans. ;)

Robert writes:
“Republicans are pro-life and anti-healthcare. What? What did that dirty little fetus ever do to contribute to society? :P”
In some cases, Robert — not a thing.
But, here’s one for you to analyze –
I’m a “pro-life,” Christian, who staunchly supports the death penalty.
So, what has any of that to do with a particular political party?
Nothing!
It’s simply common sense.

hey , shhhhhh, stop fighting,we need then more than you think. just google “SS SUSPEND FILE”
wow
…Starting in the late 1980’s, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect – sometimes simply fictitious – Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the “earnings suspense file” in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to.
The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990’s, two and a half times the amount of the 1980’s.
In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes.
In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social Security Administration, nine million W-2’s with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages.
Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant.
“Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes,” said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security’s chief actuary, using the agency’s term for illegal immigration.
Other researchers say illegal immigrants are the main contributors to the suspense file. “Illegal immigrants account for the vast majority of the suspense file,” said Nick Theodore, the director of the Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago. “Especially its growth over the 1990’s, as more and more undocumented immigrants entered the work force

first of all why are you ppl sayin from the border like all the immigrants are from mexico. It took my dad 12 years to become an american citizen because of all the paper work and he came over here the right way by bein an exchange student. Who is to say that he got hurt and had to go to the hospital during thoughs 12 years. would you deny him…now an american citizen who was fightin for a better life and freedom

“Democracy is the triumph of money over all other values.” Oswald Spengler

Im tired of hearing the argumennt that we are all immigrants so we should put up with illegal immigrants. You idiots! How can a country survive financially if they pay for anyone who wants to come over. At one time we did say bring me your tired… but that time is over because we cant manage the people who are here legally much less accepting illegals. We still accept the tired bla bla bla..but we do it legally.Back when this country said we azccept the tired and broken we were trying to build a country.That time is past. I am for humane laws but i am also for management of the people who are here first! Idiots

Why would should we pay for illegal’s to come in to the country and not have to worry about a thing, because they are paid for and if they get hurt or anything they have Health care. We are struggling enough how it is so why should we pay for people to do a crime for one,and to come into the country and take money pretty much and there not even a citizen.

a poor person living in a third world hut is thinking, ok, get to america, get a job, send money home, have children here and they are americans with full benefits, if i get sick, go to the emergency room, and even my illegal children get an education and chance for college, and now i may get health care through medicaid and more when the hispanic caucus in the u.s. demand more rights for illegals, and i pay little or no taxes. what a DEAL! can you blame them for coming here? let’s not give them ANY benefits.

I have little doubt that I will be attacked for what I am about to say, but I will say it anyway. Like others have said on here…illegal is illegal. Why reward these offenders of crimes? Yes, sneaking into the United States without permission is crime. Entering into a country by breaking a law is already starting off on the wrong foot. It shows that they are willing to break the law to benefit themselves. If the United States would quit handing out all of these benefits to illegal aliens and made it known all over the world that this was no longer going to happen then maybe they would quit wanting to come here. If they still want to come here then they would go through proper channels to get help that Real American taxpayers pay for. Stop giving all of these illegal aliens free rides and they would no longer want to come to the amusement park. If they want real American taxpayers to keep paying for all of the illegal aliens then why don’t the American taxpayers just start throwing their money out the window while driving down the road instead. At least then they have a say in how their money is blown. I am all for helping the poor. That is what we are supposed to do. However, it is not right to give help to those here illegal when those that are here legally can’t get the help and are going without. No other country puts up with illegals entering their countries, but the United States. That is why we have the biggest problem with it. Instead of seriously punishing those that do it like other countries do we reward them. Does not make any sense to me.