High Stakes for Health Care Reform

Yes, the White House thinks we are too stupid to realize that the dem plan rewards insurance companies, pays for abortions and healthcare for illegals while rationing care for us. White House thins we are too stupid to realize that people who admit they have no time to read bills they sign have no business running this country.

I think the White House is flat wrong in assuming that the plans in development are being rejected because we don’t understand the goals. The goals are all we’ve heard about. What we need is a step by step analysis of the methods being proffered to obtain those goals. That’s wherein the conflict lies, and if President Obama is serious about a bipartisan effort, then that is the only way he can address it.
I’ve yet to speak to anyone who thinks healthcare is okay as is. What people don’t seem to want is a complicated total revamp rather than addressing the areas that are failing the people. Make it portable. Stamp out pre-existing conditions clauses. Sincere efforts at tort reform that will lower unnecessary testing done as CYA.
It’s not that we’re too stupid to understand the objective, we just want a reasonable plan to get us there.

“In his meeting with Democratic congressional leaders yesterday, the president conveyed the urgency of reform — that he wants it passed soon. And they told him they are confident they have the votes to do so.”
And how is this any different from the message that has been coming out of the White House and Congress for the last 2+ months?

“Now, over the years, you’ve heard plenty of promises from plenty of people in plenty of speeches. And some of those speeches were probably pretty good.”
“But speeches don’t put food on the table. Speeches don’t fill up your tank, or fill your prescription, or do anything about that stack of bills that keeps you up at night.”
-Hillary Rodham Clinton

“In fact, under this new Utopian plan, your costs will come down! Everyone’s costs will come down because of increased competition!”
Woody | Sep 9, 2009 8:49:22 AM
Woody, why does every other first world nation on Earth spend on average half as much per person on health care as the US, and live as long or longer?
Is America uniquely corrupt that we spend $1 trillion a year MORE than everyone else and have nothing to show for it? Or perhaps the fact everyone else has some form of public option?

“Woody, why does every other first world nation on Earth spend on average half as much per person on health care as the US, and live as long or longer?”
Depends how you measure costs. Are you going to give me Swedish model and ingore their astronomical tax rates? We’ve gone over these arguments ad nauseum. Same with life expectancy. What about quality of live? What about cancer survival rates? What about innovation?
The American public, particularly independent voters, have become disenchanted at best and jaded at worst with Obama’s “crisis mode” fixes. He has lost the benefit of the doubt with middle class America. Good luck with the sales pitch.

“One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century.” – T. Friedman, New York Times.
China is reasonable? What?
The left screams about “theocracy” under the Bush Admin. with no proof, and then openly embraces autocracy as if it’s no big deal.

Under Obamacare, the lawyers will continue to make big money from malpractice suit as John Edward did. Medical service will still be expensive because of high malpractice insurance payment. Hospitals may broke because they can not afford to treat too many new medicare type patients.Government will set up dozen of agencies and hire hundred thousand bureaucrats to manage the nations health business. Affirmative action may be applied to medical training schools to accept “under represented” minority people with lower qualification. The current medicare will be cut and the shortage of medical doctor will be more severe such that more medicare patient can be rejected by physicians. Free abortion may be easier than before. Finally, Obama can appoint dozen more health Czars whose background does not require Congress scrutiny.

The fact is, Obama introduces statements with the words “the plan we propose” followed by a statement which is contrary to what is in the bills being pushed in Congress by the leadership. In effect this is lying to the American people. If Obama is going to use the words “the plan we propose” he must follow that with statement that reflect what is actually in the bills or he should write his own healthcare bill so he can make these kind of statements. Don’t mislead us Mister President!

Posted by: austin | Sep 9, 2009 10:06:57 AM
Great summary of the future under ObamaCare.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 31% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 ( see trends ). Republicans continue to lead on the Generic Congressional Ballot.

Jake – I try to read all your posts so forgive me if this has already been addressed, but can you please ask the President/Robert Gibbs/anyone who has a stake passing Health Care Reform why tort reform is NOT included as any part of the reform bill proposed by Congress (HR3200)? The President is on record as suggesting that ‘all ideas are to be put on the table’ – but no one has really addressed why we wouldn’t include the opportunity to save $100b+ annually (and ultimately reduce doctors costs of practicing by reducing the amount of medical malpractice insurance necessary) by including tort reform in the legislation.
This is, to me, the elephant in the living room that no one seems to want to address.
Thank you!

tjp612: “Woody, why does every other first world nation on Earth spend on average half as much per person on health care as the US, and live as long or longer?”
Well, jhw, consider the U.S. Government is responsible for close to 50% of spending on healthcare (don’t remember the exact number, but you get the idea) through Medicare, Medicaid, etc. Could this be part of the problem?”
Seems a bit absurd to suggest that seeing as how in many of the other first world nations the government is responsible for 100% of the healthcare – and their spending is half or less per capita. Correlation is not causation, but if there is causation there MUST be correlation.
tjp612: “Also – What other “1st world” countries have the same levels of obesity and diabetes and deaths caused by accidents and violence (the answer is “none”).”
What other first world nation has as low a smoking rate as the US? Heart disease, cancer, and stroke are the 1, 2, and 3 leading causes of death in the US. Deaths by violence is 15th – seems a bit unlikely that the US being a gun slinging wild west makes the difference (CDC 2006 National Vital Statistics Report V57,#14).
As for your extraordinary claim that we have a higher death rate due to accidents, could you cite some back up for that? The last WHO data had Spain and New Zealand at a HIGHER death rate, Italy the same, and Austria and France within one of our deaths per 100,000 people rate.
If you have to make up lies about reality to support your position, it really calls into question the integrity of it.

@ jhw,
“Seems a bit absurd to suggest that seeing as how in many of the other first world nations the government is responsible for 100% of the healthcare – and their spending is half or less per capita.”
Perhaps rationing is occurring in these nations you reference…or they are more efficient with their spending…or both!
“If you have to make up lies about reality to support your position, it really calls into question the integrity of it.”
Great research, jhw, Nice closing arguments. You’ve swayed me, sign me up for ObamaCare!

Que up the plunger…..for tonight……our fearless leader will cram ‘Nobama’ care down the throats of Americans not wanting Gubbamint intrusion on the lives of the “Unwashed” minions!
Lets look where this crap has failed outright…….
Massachusetts
Tennessee
to name a few…….
Then there is the well run USPS, Medicare/Medicaid, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, U.S. Congressional Post Office…..all proven winners according to the Demoncrats.
Geez….when is enough enough?
Congress wants to raise the debt ceiling from 12.1 Trillion to 13.5 Trillion because we (America) are…..here it comes……BROKE!!
That’s right folks. Congress has broken the system with Barrys’ help in a short 8 months. Where in the %^#@& are the adults?
This makes me sick and it should do the same to you!! (Left and Right)

hey jake
wheres the birth certificate?

“We’ve gone over these arguments ad nauseum.”
That’s right. And all the Right can come up with is fear tactics and tort reform. It’s not good enough. We know the Republicans will NEVER stand up to the health insurance companies and those companies have failed to provide adequate coverage to our citizens, and there is no indication they will ever have any real motivation to do so. They fear the public option because it will be like putting a ring through the nose of their bull. An effective potentially marginalizing trigger is the last and only compromise I would be willing to listen to.

I am always intrigued by what the liberal Camille Paglia, and this offering is no exception:
“But this tonic dose of truth-telling may be too little too late. As an Obama supporter and contributor, I am outraged at the slowness with which the standing army of Democratic consultants and commentators publicly expressed discontent with the administration’s strategic missteps this year. I suspect there had been private grumbling all along, but the media warhorses failed to speak out when they should have — from week one after the inauguration, when Obama went flat as a rug in letting Congress pass that obscenely bloated stimulus package. Had more Democrats protested, the administration would have felt less arrogantly emboldened to jam through a cap-and-trade bill whose costs have made it virtually impossible for an alarmed public to accept the gargantuan expenses of national healthcare reform. (Who is naive enough to believe that Obama’s plan would be deficit-neutral? Or that major cuts could be achieved without drastic rationing?) ”

From Melanie K. Hooper, The Hill:
“The ball is in President Obama’s court to reach out to Republicans if he wants a bipartisan bill on healthcare reform, House GOP Leader John Boehner (Ohio) said Monday morning.
Boehner told reporters that the president has not invited House GOP leaders to the White House for meetings on healthcare reform since the end of April.
Earlier this year, GOP leaders sent a letter to the president in May stating that they would like to work with the administration to find “common ground” on healthcare reform.
But the administration responded with a tersely worded letter indicating that they had healthcare reform under control.”

Public disapproval of President Barack Obama’s handling of health care has jumped to 52 percent, according to an Associated Press-GfK poll released hours before he makes his case for overhaul in a prime-time address to Congress.
With his health revamp moving slowly and UNEMPLOYMENT EDGING EVER HIGHER, Obama’s overall approval rating has also suffered a blow. The survey showed that 49 percent now disapprove of how he is handling his job as president, up from 42 percent who disapproved in July.
The grade people give Obama on health care also has worsened since July, when just 43 percent disapproved of his work on the issue.
But what about the proposals already in Congress? Voters oppose them as well, by a wide margin:
49 percent say they oppose the health overhaul plans being considered by Congress, compared to just 34 percent who favor them.

The polling results cited by I Won are from the Associated Press today.
Max Baucus has just announced that a public option cannot pass the Senate.

49 percent say they oppose the health overhaul plans being considered by Congress, compared to just 34 percent who favor them.
So, roughly speaking, 1 in 3 Obama voters don’t support the plan. So what’s the narrative here lefties? Since only right wing haters oppose the plan, how did 1/3 of Obama voters become haters?

Numeros, Rasmussen has been showing those numbers within two or three points for several weeks now.
The new AP poll shows that “Obama’s marks are also poor on the economy, with 52 percent saying they disapprove of how he’s handled that issue.
“A similar number disapprove of his handling of taxes, some of which may rise to help finance his health overhaul. And 56 percent dislike his handling of the budget deficit, which has skyrocketed under the costs of the financial bailouts and a recession that has caused sinking federal revenues.”

Rasmussen (choice pollster of conservatives) also said today:
When the public debate over health care reform began in earnest in June, 50% of voters nationwide supported the legislative effort and 45% were opposed. By August, support had fallen to 43% and opposition had risen to 53%. Since then, opinions seem to have stabilized in advance of Presidnet Obama’s address to Congress tonight.

A relevant history lesson….
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 – they’ve had 234 years to get it right; it is broke, and even though heavily subsidized, it can’t compete with private sector FedEx and UPS services.
Social Security was established in 1935 – they’ve had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938 – they’ve had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. Freddie Mac was established in 1970 – they’ve had 39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80 years.
The War on Poverty was started in 1964 – they’ve had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our hard earned money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor”; it hasn’t worked.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 – they’ve had 44 years to get it right; they are both broke; and now our government dares to mention them as models for all US health care.
AMTRAK was established in 1970 – they’ve had 39 years to get it right; last year they bailed it out as it continues to run at a loss!

“More Americans are killed and injured for lack of access and by medical errors in one year than were lost in Vietnam in an entire decade.”
1. How are “Americans killed and injured for lack of access”?
2. Given lack of clarity you provided in the first have of your statement, how are we to believe the second part regarding “losses in Vietnam”?
Your credibility has been severely strained.

“A goal is to convince Americans that they have a stake in the outcome — that those with insurance will have new ways to combat abuses by insurance companies…”
The sad fact is insurance abuses is small potatoes compared with governmet waste, inefficiency,corruption, and political payoffs. Yes I have a stake in this plan, and I will continue to oppose it.
Try serious tort reform, equal tax incentives to individuals that employers get, and the ability to get insurance across state lines.Also, the ability to transfer plans to a new employer without fear of pre-existing conditions. These and other ideas would drive costs down through greater competition and greater availability.
We need a consumer friendly, consumer centered bill passed, not one that enhances government power.

Ignore the conservatives and go for the public option. That’s my advice. Repubs have proven without a doubt that they will argue and dispute and argue…. just for the hatred of it. Well, guess what! Obama doesn’t need Republican support. Why won’t he realize that?????

Dear Mr. President,
I may be naive in the nature of politics, but here’s how I see it.
You were elected by a great majority as President. You have a senate majority, as well as a house majority. The will of the people has been shown. We want you to do as you promised.
Compromising to the right wing is not on the agenda that we voted for. Why are you making concessions and trying to be nice to them? They’re sure not playing nice with you. Comparing you to Hitler is below the belt. Fussing and banning your speech is not playing nice. No matter what you do, you will not be making friends or winning votes from their side, so forget about it. Keep the voters you do have happy and do what you said you would do.
My ex-husband and I are both self-employed and our businesses are tanking. We had to put the kids on CHiP to keep our heads above water, as we could not afford to pay over $1000 a month for this poor coverage. We need a public option, and we need it NOW.
Please don’t let us down.

“Repubs have proven without a doubt that they will argue and dispute and argue…. just for the hatred of it.”
Yes, the majority of Americans who do not approve of the way Obama has handled healthcare are hateful. Great logic (feel free to through it “because they are racists” if it makes you feel better).

Comparing you to Hitler is below the belt. Fussing and banning your speech is not playing nice.
Posted by: valerie yoder | Sep 9, 2009 2:41:49 PM
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Oh Valerie…where was your outcry when they were portraying Bush as Hitle and replacing the S in his name with swastikas?
And fussing about his speech? How quickly one forgets 1991 when Bush Senior talked to kids about school and not using drugs. The Democratically controlled congress when ape crap, opened a federal investigation and wasted time and precious tax dollars for nothing.
I am not advocating anything, but do not sit on your high horse and pretend the shoe did not come from the other foot. Whats good for the goose is not good for the gander?
Please…..this whole congress and administration is nothing more than the them of Double Standards and Hypocrisy!

Hello No Public Option
58,000 Americans were killed in Vietnam in the decade of that debacle.
98,000 Americans die annually through medical errors in hospitals — Why don’t you Google medical errors instead of manifesting stupidity!
20,000 more die for lack of access to care — See Institute of Medicine et. al. sources.
Thousands die from medical screwups in same day surgery centers, nursing homes etc.
I beleive that the lack of access is an under-estimate. Many people disregard the chest pain … the radiating back pain, etc. … because they cannot afford to seek timely medical help. Others cannot afford the prescribed medications.
Meanwhile, insurance and drug companies can afford billions to settle fraud and class action litigation lawsuits. BILLION$! See http://www.healthcare-consulting.com/knowledge.html to expand your obviously limited horizons on the fraud, waste and abuse that the private insurance market engenders.

Sorry, Valerie Yoder, but your pitiful appeal to have the American taxpayer do for you what you should do for yourself will encounter a lot of resistance among self-respecting, self-reliant free citizens.

Bigun | Sep 9, 2009 1:56:43 PM
Don’t confuse feelings with the facts!

“They can take the public option out and get the votes.”
______________________________________
Throughout the years a public option and universal coverage have quite consistently received support from the majority of Americans.
What people respond to in the current polls is their perception of the current bills – people have been lied to about death panels, killing granny and so on. The bickering and noise and fear mongering has been beyond annoying. Plus, no one has really clearly outlined what is in the bills and what each means.
That is mostly cause the bills were still being worked out through back and forth, push and pull.
Plus, people can see all the stuffed shirts in Washington doing the same old bickering and arguing, the right wing media pimps inciting people to abhorrent behavior, people with Nazi symbols and guns at rallies – they see all the messy side of politics – and they are fed up with it. This is why when you ask them if they approve of the way Obama has handled healthcare, some will say ‘no’.
Do they want health care reforms, a public option and universal coverage – yet be the majority do. And I think after all this work on hammering the bills into shape – that’s exactly what we’ll get.
Regardless of the naysayers and fear mongers, and the party of ‘no’.

Obama’s superior intellect is bad for my health.

Many people, myself included, oppose the appalling approach to health care reform characterized by HR3200 for a variety of reasons. There are a wealth of ideas out there that are superior but don’t see the light of day in Washington.
That said, if POTUS comes out tonight and characterizes my opposition as a distortion based defense of the status quo, when in fact my own approach would be less status quo than his, then he has lost me for good on this issue.
Last call Mr. President.

@ julieterra:
“Plus, people can see all the stuffed shirts in Washington doing the same old bickering and arguing, the right wing media pimps inciting people to abhorrent behavior, people with Nazi symbols and guns at rallies – they see all the messy side of politics – and they are fed up with it.”
So no mention of Pelosi refering to town hall attendees against ObamaCare as “Nazis”? No mention of union thugs beating up town hall ObamaCare protestors? How about the ObamaCare protestor who had a finger bit off by MoveOn pro-ObamaCare protester? Is the LEFT innocent of what you call-out the Right of doing? Think about it.

@ julieterra:
Here is another reason why so many of us are against ObamaCare:
The Detroit Free Press reported that HR3200 gives a $10,000,000,000 (billion) subsidy to union pension and benefit plans, a key component that had gone largely unremarked. The Detroit News’ editorial board blasted the payoff and demanded its removal:
“One reason the public so distrusts the health care plan being considered by Congress is that so many troublesome details keep bubbling out of the massive legislation.
The latest example is the $10 billion taxpayers will be asked to shell out to prop up the United Auto Workers’ retiree health insurance program. …
In effect, it would ask every taxpayer, regardless of whether they’ll have health insurance coverage themselves after they retire — and most won’t — to chip in to maintain the UAW’s coverage, which even after the union’s givebacks is still better than what the average American worker receives.”
========================
I won’t be getting a pension when I retire, why should I pay for the UAW’s pension fund?
julieterra: Can you honestly say you support this? Honestly? Obama hasn’t asked for removal, which would implies he supports it.

@ julieterra,
One more nugget for you:
“Union health plans will be exempt from the limitations of ObamaCare, allowing unions to operate as insurers while forcing everyone else into government-approved plans in “exchanges”. Instead of having the union pay for their own plans, taxpayers will subsidize them, while getting less themselves.”
So ObamaCare is good enough for the masses, but not applicable to unions and politicians?
Can you defend this?
Now are you getting a sense of why so many oppose ObamaCare?

“the number discussed in that report is a STATISTICAL ESTIMATE. IT IS NOT BASED ON ANY REAL EVIDENCE. Also, the number used in the report is 18,000 NOT 20,000.)”
“In its 2002 report, the Institute of Medicine estimated that 18,000 adults nationwide died in 2000 because they did not have health insurance. That estimate was later updated by the Urban Institute, which reported that at least 22,000 adults died in 2006 due to a lack of health insurance. “

julieterra | Sep 9, 2009 3:37:20 PM
Yesterday’s talking points were “Thank you Obama”. Today, they are “The party of NO”. My Rep is an OBGYN (delivered over 3500 babies) who offered his expertise to House leadership (Ms Pelosi) to improve our healthcare. He was told ‘Thanks, but no thanks.’ The same/similar for Senator Coburn. Yeah, which is the party of NO?

“No mention of union thugs beating up town hall ObamaCare protestors?”
Probably because it was just another Ashley Todd incident, complete with comical appearance the next day in a wheelchair and neck brace even though he was walking around fine on film!

I seldom agree with Newt Gingrich but he hit the nail on the head this week by saying Congress is too bought and sold by special interests to put together a solid 1300 page health reform. The way to do it is to chip away at the current system a little at a time.
Since the only chipping done now is the public option, it’s elimination would be a great victory for the special interests and point us right toward $25,000 to cover a single family a decade from now. That’s how much companies will be withholding from what would be otherwise be in people’s paychecks. And with that drain on the economy, get used to recessions!

Ryan,
Neither study has REAL EVIDENCE…only esitmates they use to support their position!
Good Try…But as ALWAYS…YOUR WRONG!!!!

One must never underestimate the manipulative genius of pathological narcissists. They project such an imposing personality that it overwhelms those around them. Charmed by the charisma of the narcissist, people become like clay in his hands. They cheerfully do his bidding and delight to be at his service. The narcissist shapes the world around himself and reduces others in his own inverted image. He creates a cult of personality.. His admirers become his co-dependents Narcissists have no interest in things that do not help them to reach their personal objective. They are focused on one thing alone and that is power. All other issues are meaningless to them and they do not want to waste their precious time on trivialities. Anything that does not help them is beneath them and do not deserve their attention.

Posted by: deanbob | Sep 9, 2009 5:39:28 PM – I agree with what you said about Glenn Beck, with one exception. I don’t believe he is “focused on one thing alone and that is power.” Money is an even bigger motivation than power.
Posted by: Good for the Goose | Sep 9, 2009 5:54:23 PM
***
:>) He’s certainly cultivated a cult!

Sorry tjp . .. I dispute all of your nonsense posts, you apparently don’t double check or research anything. You just suck in right wing pablum as if it were unquestionable truth. Do some real research or at least learn what real researching and double checking of information means.

Most people in the US are not covered under any Health Insurer anyway regardless of there type of insurance. The Insurance companies have been the problem in the past denying claim for any reason and they will continue to be the problem in the future. How is that the same drugs being manufactured in the US costs less in Europe? I am a US national living in Europe because I am dual national. And Americans are all suckers because your being fooled by the government. When will you simply demand free health care for everyone? politicians have free health care for life? Your all stupid because in America because your paying for a phony war and being managed by idiots in Washington.