Marching Down Pennsylvania Avenue

It was a great day for patriots. Obama has managed to initiate hope and change in a way that I am sure he never imagined. It is now time to stop feeding the pigs of Washington.

Wow! No bias in this article! NOT!
It is no wonder ABC and the other traditional media outlets are losing viewers. They have completely sold out to the left. And, they have lost all objectivity. Sadly, I honestly believe they don’t even realize how slanted and offensive their “journalism” is to those from the conservative spectrum.
Can anyone say “Fox News”!!!

I was there, from 8a until 330p. Just who are those “officials” you quote at 50,000 to 75,000? I asked a group of cops as I left what they thought. They lowballed at 200,000. I have been in groups of 25,000, so I have a reference point. There were at least several hundred thousand people at the march, probably at least one-half million. Please reserve your uninformed commments to how the “mob” conducted itself, you know, us far rightwing radicals who can’t think for ourselves and need Rush Limbaugh to think for us. We’re not fortunate enough to have leaders who think George Bush blew up the WTC or can stand in front of congress and America and call Sarah Palin a liar and Republicans fools and then be offended by Joe Wilson’s instinctive response when Obama told one bald-faced lie after another. You know we’re not very smart, certainly don’t understand when a president and his party are destroying our country right before our eyes, while his party and supporters cheer him on while he’s doing it. Doesn’t anyone in the MSM, even one person, care at all about the destruction of America and our way of life right in front of their own eyes?

Oh yeah, Fox News is SO “objective”. LOL!

Hey Jake, did it take you all afternoon to find a source to pick that figure; well, you’re stuck with it now.
You’re the only source say it’s anything under half a million.

A glorious day – the media totally missed it – trumped again, just like they were by the kids who outed Acorn. Jake, come on, you’re one of the good ones-get it together and go after this admin.-didn’t the press USED to do that??

“You’re the only source say it’s anything under half a million.”
“Just who are those “officials” you quote at 50,000 to 75,000? I asked a group of cops as I left what they thought. They lowballed at 200,000.”
“Can anyone say “Fox News”!!!”
Pssst, folks … Fox News is describing the crowd as “tens of thousands.”

Ron – I can’t post a link on here but google “election turnout november 2008″ You will see that Republican turnout decreased while Democrat turnout increased. If we “assume” that many of these people are Republican or conservative, they may now find a reason to get off their butts and vote next time. Also, many of those people are disgruntled Dems and Indies who voted for obama and didn’t get what they thought they were getting.

GO TO FOX NEWS FOR THE TRUTH

Fine, you want to say “tens of thousands,” great.
Then comparing the pictures, there were less than “tens of thousands” at Obama’s inauguration.
The foreign press is calling it 1.5 million, but, of course,they don’t have an agenda to push.

Dear god in heaven. Will someone please tell me how Barack Obama is destroying the country? Seriously. And be very specific. Tell me what his master plan is. Don’t tell me he’s “destroying the American way of life.” It’s pathetically vague. Reagan appointed the first czar. Obama was born in Hawaii. He is proposing lower taxes than did Ronald Reagan. Medicare is single-payer socialized healthcare and you know you like that. I watched Glen Beck today to find out what the hell the issue was. All he told me was “destroying the dream of the founders.” Be specific, please, for once. It will give you some credibility if you’re specific. Because you know what. I think it’s because he’s black. I really do and it scares the bejesus out of me.

WWW – I thought the “fine” liberals hated Fox.
As far as I can see, the only people who quote Fox are people who say they hate them.
Too bad we don’t have an accurate count of the marches anymore; we all know why, too: because there weren’t a million men at the Million Man March and when the powers that be didn’t like the estimate the NPS came out with, which had to that point in time been considred the most accurate count available, the NPS counting stopped.

“How about it’s that we don’t like his policies?”
The problem, dear Linda, is that your so-called policy differences are either non-specific or completely hypocritical (as in, Republicans including Bush had the same policies re: bailouts, etc). So those of us watching from the sidelines are trying to discern where all this hysterical anger are fear is coming from (“Oh, my God! He’s indoctrinating schoolchildren!”, “He’s just like Hitler!”, “Get out of my White House!”, “He’s not American!”, “I want my country back!”). All these hysterical comments, some with tears flowing, are things I’ve seen these “conservative” protestors shouting or waving on signs. The intensity and hysteria bears little relation to the reality of his policies. We can only come to the conclusion (based also on many racists comments I’ve heard and seen about Obama) that an element of this hysterical rage is based on something more visceral than mere policy differences.
As Joan said, if you’d like to make more rational, specific arguments, please do.

A wee bit bias, non? Sounds like ABCcorp. is gearing up to give Our President another hour of prime time for still another infomercial.

It must be frustrating when the media rightly refuses to get worked up about these petty demonstrations. Otherwise we’d have to endure news reports about tens of thousands of people descending on Washington for another Redskins game.

Like I said, you appear to be the only person here saying that.

Specifics? You want specifics?
Great, so do I, and so do the Tea Party protesters.
If not for the public outcry that people like Ron cannot fathom; we’d already have a health care bill that no one really understood.
When Obama complains that about falsehoods and myths, he has no one but himself to blame. He’s using the wrong playbook. That would be Dr Ezekiel Emanuel’s book, “Heath Care Guaranteed”, which recommends pushing the bill through as fast as possible, and not getting into policy ‘weeds’.
So, when people asked for specifics, they were called names.
Without specifics, opposition grew. I wouldn’t sign a contract without knowing what it said, and I hope everyone else agrees.
By not taking this seriously, trying to pretend that questions did not exist, that they were manufactured by some vast right wing conspiracy, opposition grew. And grew.
And grew.
I’m amused by those who claim not to understand the opposition. You seem pretty intelligent. It’s just this simple.
Stop trying to push 100+page bills down our throats before anyone can read it.
Stop the spending. Our debt is over $11 TRILLION. I just cannot imagine proposing $1.6-$2 TRILLION more for anything, much less a shady health care bill.
Why wouldn’t we regulate the industry, for a fraction of the cost? Why wouldn’t we allow insurance companies to operate across state lines?
There are some simple steps to take that will not bankrupt the USA.
They do not involve a public option, which as we all know, is the doorway to single payer.

I was there! Capital police estimated over 2million! We the People are here and so is the Constitution!

Joan: Where should I start? Increasing the national debt, spending more taxpayer money in 7 months than any administration in history, allotting taxpayer money to the fraudulent corrupt ACORN, paying for abortions in other countries with tax dollars (genocide), suggesting that injured Vets get their own health care,calling a police officer “stupid,” taking AF1 for a joyride without notifying New Yorkers, insinuating that physicians remove tonsils to make money,promising to go over the budget line by line and then using tax money for projects like studying fieldmice, putting our tax money in other people’s pockets just for buying a car….

“Capital police estimated over 2million! ”
Capital Police don’t make estimates. So whoever told you that was lying or pulling your leg.

If these people had sound arguments they would not need to dress up their children,wear goofy costumes or carry extemely offensive signs.
They would work to share their policies and elect responsible people to implement them.
They have nothing.
Barack Obama won the election and had/has the support of the majority. As his majority grows they get more desperate and pathetic. It is ugly.

“Primarily and currently by destroying our health care system, which 85% of Americans are happy with.”
Not quite.
(From the July Time Magazine poll)
89% of respondents said they were currently covered by some kind of health insurance, and of that group 86% said they were “very” or “somewhat” satisfied with their plan.
That same poll asked “Would it be better to pretty much stay with the current healthcare system and just make some minor adjustments, or does the system need major reform?
55% Major Reform
43% Minor Adjustments

Were there any “good” people in the crowd? I’ll say one thing for Obama he sure did tip people off in this organizing stuff. I’ll bet that Alinsky book is a top seller these days.
Whats the saying”the sqeaky wheel gets the grease’?

If these people are so concerned about government spending then where were these “tens of thousands” when Bush was spending $400 million a day in Iraq . And all that after he LIED to the American people. Funny, no marches or protesters or anyone in Congress screaming “You Lie” when all that was going on. Where was the outcry when Bush bailed out Wall Street. Yes, the first bailout came under the Bush Administration. Again, no marches no protests.
Now these protesters are all up in arms over spending and their most recent point of contention would be spending on Health Care.
I was watching NBC news and they were showing the rally and different speakers at the rally. One man got up to the microphone and said because of the auto bailout he had lot his car dealership and that he was mad as hell. No one can blame him for being mad but, I wonder how mad he would be if he or any member of his family ever had a major illness and was dropped by their insurance carrier or denied a medical procedure because it wouldn’t be cost effective for the insurance company. Afterall, nothing is more importrant than those dividend checks for the insurance company’s stockholders. He lost a dealership, but he may actually have a chance at starting a new business or investing in another business. In the health care scenario being denied a procedure or losing coverage could cost you your life. I’ll bet if he lost his coverage or was denied a procedure he would be the first one screaming that the government should be doing something.

I think this march is a positive indication that the Republicans are making progress on the stages of grief after losing the election.
The 5 stages:
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
It’s clear they’re stuck on “anger” right now but at least it’s progress (though I think some are still stuck on “denial”). With any luck, they’ll reach “acceptance” sometime before the end of Obama’s first term.

You got that right, david. Who ever heard of “community organizing” or ACORN or Aylinsky? Unfortunately for them, this presidency has put them all under the magnifying glass…

Conservatives are just that-conservative.They don’t march,the don’t demonstrate. They tend to work hard and don’t take time off from work except for family and vacation.Public demonstrations just don’t happen with your average political conservative.That is what is so amazing about the size and scope of this protest.It also says alot about our president-he was so frightened that he ran out of town.Is he afraid that he might see that the adulation is starting to fade?

“For those who think the protesters are “hysterical”, I will list some items which are dangerous to our republic:”
-And then list a bunch of right-wing slanted fabrications we’re all supposed to be afraid of. If anything my belief that the protesters are indeed hysterical has been reinforced.

An awesome sight! Next time, let’s make it 10 million.

It’s only getting bigger and bigger, but I think the Dems still think it”s going to go away

Their bias is so obvious, there was certainly more than 60,000-70,000–look at the pictures and picked out some of the harsher comments
________________________________________
I looked at the pictures and I picked out Waldo!

Hey Ron, maybe Bush didn’t upset us as much because he didn’t triple the deficit in 7 months or hire Van Jones and the new one, who wants pets to be able to sue their owners. Have you watched the flim of Acorn lately?

oh, btw, official parks service estimate is 1.2 million

This is a true grass root movement. Like minded people marching together with no one true leader. Must have politicians shaking in fear. Remember, those who doubt, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

From an ABC news article elsewhere on this website:
Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.
At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands.”
Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.
As a result of Kibbe’s erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.

today was the GREATEST day!
and i dont care if people say there were only 10 people there… i was there, witnessed it first hand, and it was nothing short of AMAZING!

“Get over it, guys. This is only the begining. :D”
Exactly, my friend. President Obama won the election with a mandate to lead. Get over it.
This is only the beginning. :D

-Did you all forget how this country was teetering on unprecedented financial collapse at the end of 2008?-
Thankfully, vital industries like Goldman Sachs got bailed out. The Post Office, not so lucky…

-Christa, If you were so concerned about debts, you should have been out protesting George W. Bush, who was the one who did the most to saddle your grandchildren with never-ending deficits.-
Barry O voted for the same bill McCain did. Now he wants to increase the debt ceiling. I blame Bush.

Obama is here to stay, 2016 get used to it, this is the power of our democracy, we put up for 8yrs remember?

Those lovely protest pictures were posted all over the world.
Yup, today was a VERY good day!
Posted by: ceeLeelee
=======================================
I guess this was intended as satire, right?

I read that Obama governs by the “Tinkerbell Effect”.
Obama thinks if he wishes hard enough it will happen.
Or in the case of the protesters–if he wishes hard enough they just won’t exist.

I’m pretty sure the MSM was more focused on the fact that Joe Wilson once took No-Doze.
Or Obama’s 268th campaign speech.
Or anything negative about Palin.

“I especially enjoyed the speaker that said “I thought you would like to see a black man speak without a teleprompter”.
The right-wing’s bizarre obsession with race is becoming embarrassing. Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Lol.
Stop worrying about how many protesters were there.
Your man, Obama, has this all under control, doesn’t he?
Doesn’t he??? :D

Stop worrying about how many protesters were there
=====================
Uhm, ceeLeelee, it was your side who was angry and charged that this report was “biased”.

Stop worrying about how many protesters were there. Posted by: ceeLeelee
actually, you folks are the ones who should be worried about the small turnout after so much was said about how important this ‘march on washington’ was……. a few hundred thousand fringe measured against the other 100s of millions in america matters……..

Can some one tell me why Obama seems to be in election mod once again? I could of sworn that he was running once again for President after watching clips of him at that rally.
This man does not seem to know the election is over and done with, and its time he sit behind his desk and do what he was hired for.

What side? I am a Democrat. :D
Posted by: ceeLeelee
and I,… am the queen of sheba

40k to 60k? is that all you got after the big call to arms……. sad
Posted by: wysiwyg | Sep 13, 2009 12:50:53 AM
Go look at USA Today from January and how Parks & Recreation estimated crowds for Obama’s inaugural. From the Capitol to Washington Monument is about 1.2 million.
Then look at aerial photos from today.
Judge for yourself. And that doesn’t count all the local gatherings throughout the country. Sad? Not hardly.

Okay, Queenie. If you say so…

old hippie
The DC Fire Department has issued an unofficial estimate of 60,000 to 70,000 people in attendance, which is smallish by big DC protest/event standards
very sad……
btw: re: We have lots of other issues
I know, many are treatable, if your uninsured you’ll have to use an emergency room at the hospital….

Thank you Jake Tapper for covering the protests and not ignoring them.

Posted by: Old Hippie
what is sad, is that you support the people who supply the ‘birth certificate’, deathers. indoctrination, secret muslim manchurian candidate, socialist etc, give us ‘our’ country back’, lies……. plain and simple..
what is also sad, is that even when your lies are exposed by conservatives and dems, you still cling to them.
you rant about free speech, I’ve done nothing to take yours away except express my opinion on the fringe nonsense and lies….
on the contrary, it’s you who implies I don’t have the right to comment or criticize what you say and do.

what is also sad, is that even when your lies are exposed by conservatives and dems, you still cling to them.
Posted by: wysiwyg | Sep 13, 2009 1:36:55 AM
Show me where I’ve lied.

Then look at aerial photos from today.
Posted by: Old Hippie
==========================================
And you are sure that were photos from today (actually yesterday now)? Because the aerial photo that is doing the rounds on right wing blogs and twitter is not from 09/12/2009.
It’s from 04/10/1997. To be more specific, from the ‘Stand in the Gap: A Sacred Assembly of Men’. One reason we could determine it wasn’t from yesterday was because the National Museum of the American Indian is missing in that picture.
Another photo that was doing the rounds yesterday was from two weeks ago, taken during the Memorial Service for Ted Kennedy. The flags were flying at half mast in that picture. They weren’t yesterday.

Another photo that was doing the rounds yesterday was from two weeks ago, taken during the Memorial Service for Ted Kennedy. The flags were flying at half mast in that picture. They weren’t yesterday.
Posted by: Willem van Oranje | Sep 13, 2009 1:56:36 AM
Don’t know about the first one but I’ve read that flags were still flying from 9/11. I’ll let the experts has it out.

Don’t know about the first one but I’ve read that flags were still flying from 9/11. I’ll let the experts has it out.
Posted by: Old Hippie
===========================================
Not on Federal Buildings.

He was at the ranch, behind his desk, probably playing video games. We know he wasn’t out riding horses, since Mexico’s Ex-President Fox wrote (in his book) Bush the ‘wanna be’ cowboy can’t even ride a horse. What a freaking joke!

What a freaking joke!
Posted by: AngieJ | Sep 13, 2009 2:17:18 AM
No. What’s a joke is that you even want to go down this road. You support your President and I’ll oppose him. There’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t know why you are so intent on comparing BHO to GWB. What’s the point? In fact I’ll make a deal with you. You leave GWB out of it and I’ll leave WJC and Monica out of it.

MSNBC videos of today show both the crowd and the flag at half mast.
The American Indian Museum is on a different street, that is why it isn’t there.
Then look at aerial photos from today.
Posted by: Willem van Oranje
———————————-
And you are sure that were photos from today (actually yesterday now)? Because the aerial photo that is doing the rounds on right wing blogs and twitter is not from 09/12/2009.
It’s from 04/10/1997. To be more specific, from the ‘Stand in the Gap: A Sacred Assembly of Men’. One reason we could determine it wasn’t from yesterday was because the National Museum of the American Indian is missing in that picture.
Another photo that was doing the rounds yesterday was from two weeks ago, taken during the Memorial Service for Ted Kennedy. The flags were flying at half mast in that picture. They weren’t yesterday.
Posted by: Willem van Oranje
——————————

EXTREMELY crowded. But it was all good.
It was a beautiful thing.

The American Indian Museum is on a different street, that is why it isn’t there.
=============================================
Don’t be ridiculous. It’s right on the National Mall, first building on the left from the Capitol towards the Washington Monument.

Leave GWB out of it?? Are you kidding me?? He’s the reason we’re in this mess we’re in, with the economy, war, etc. But of course you’d like to leave him and mad man Cheney out of it. Why would you want to discuss facts?? It’s easier to make up crazy birther theories, etc.
Posted by: AngieJ | Sep 13, 2009 2:35:56 AM
Ah, see I knew you couldn’t do it.

Posted by: winz | Sep 13, 2009 2:43:39 AM
And that’s why many attended today.
AngieJ doesn’t want to hear that. She NEEDS it to be all about Obama vs. Bush.

“We’re true hot blooded Americans and concerned about what’s going on in our government,” Crise said. “We’re worried about the spending. We’re worried the corruption that’s happening. We’re worried the lies we’re getting.”???
WHERE WERE THOSE CONCERNED CITIZENS DURING THE LAST ADMINISTRATION’S REIGN?

NBC Nightly News’ Tom Costello reported Park police estimated the crowd at tens of thousands but “our own people think hundreds of thousands.”
So what’s in a number?
BTW: The same report referred to it as a “sea” and “massive”
So what’s in a word?
Once again, I will say I’m just happy the effort was reported by all media outlets.

Posted by: Old Hippie
What’s your beef with those statements? Some are harsh (Bush rode a bike a lot so he wasn’t only sitting behind a desk) but they pale in comparison with what was said in the last 8 months about Obama.
And remember. A lot of these harsh things only started to be said after it became clear Bush and Cheney were lying about Iraq, were going to bomb Iraqi citizens to smithereens and invade a country that had no WMD’s and had nothing to do with 9/11. An invasion and occupation that was going to set a highly volatile region aflame without having the capacity to control it one way or the other.
And compare that to what Obama is doing: trying to get everybody healthinsurance; rescueing an economy while it was in freefall; and restart an economy that was totally run into the ground by the previous administration.

Winz writes: ….., forget the parties, think about our country and us, and our children, and the world to. We need to be responsible ourselves if we hope to help the world, our economy is important in a world picture, we are important, just like other nations are.
_______________________________
That’s great – then why weren’t you marching on Washington when our troops didn’t have the armour they needed to fight the war properly, when Blackwater was making it worse for our troops with their renegade acts? when Americans were being lied to about WMD’s? when our citizens in New Orleans were pleading for clean drinking water as they waited almost a week for help from Washington? when the Bush administration was changing laws to make it easier for Wall Street to cheat the American people?? TELL ME, where were you then?

What’s your beef with those statements?
Posted by: Willem van Oranje | Sep 13, 2009 3:09:01 AM
Well, well. You sure suckered me in with your little passive aggressive game. I thought we were going to have a reasonable discussion.
To tell the truth all those statements sounded like a lot of “bitching and moaning” but I guess you know better.
And actually I have not defended Bush or Cheney in any of my posts. You put that on me.

I’m done talking numbers.
Posted by: Old Hippie
———-
Yes, throngs and seas and sands in the hourglass feel much cozier than cold, hard numbers.
Posted by: Jess Sayen | Sep 13, 2009 3:17:15 AM
sigh
NBC Nightly News’ Tom Costello reported Park police estimated the crowd at tens of thousands but “our own people think hundreds of thousands.”

I’ll make a deal with you. You leave GWB out of it and I’ll leave WJC and Monica out of it.
Posted by: Old Hippie
yeah but old ‘w’ has, september 11th, the Iraq disaster, letting NOLA drown, economic collapse,
corruption,….. old Bill had a lil ‘nooky’ on the side and lied about it,…
if you think those things balance out you are certainly representative of the republicans.

I see some comments are bring up the ”race” BS as an explanation. Nothing could be further from the truth. You know who is a racist? Van Jones, Rev. Wright, Prof. Gates, Charlie Wrangel, Jessie Jackson. No one cares about Obama’s race – whatever “race” means (certainly not a scientific concept). This is about IDEOLOGY, COMPETENCE, & HONESTY.
Bringing up race is a red herring – a distraction from real issues.

AngieJ. There was never a US president whose nationality was in doubt. I don’t know if the accusations are true & either do you. I do know that Team Obama has spent millions of dollars in legal fees to obstruct release of the original birth certificate. So, something smells fishy. The same goes for school transcripts & other details of Obama’s life. Logic tells me that if someone goes to great lengths to cover up something, there is a problem.
The problem may not be his place of birth, who knows? The point is that it would cost nothing to release records.
Kenyan, to my knowledge, is a nationality, not a race. You are taking political correctness to far.

Old Hippie Writes: Notice that Angie ignores your statement and diverts her rebuttal to the protestors as racist birthers. So what about that list of names ………………………..
So you don’t want to talk about GWB but now you want to talk about the likes of JJ, etc.
As far as I know none of the names mentioned are part of the current administration, other than Van Jones who has now resigned- Still, I wouldn’t begin to defend these people, other than Professor Gates. He is absolutely NOT a racist. I’ve known about this great man for over 10 years and read much of his writings, but that’s a story for another day. BUT if you want to start dissecting friends and associates of GWB we can do just that. BTW JJ isn’t even a friend. He was caught on microphone at FOX, bad-mouthing Obama so I don’t know why he’s even mentioned as a friend of his – he’s NOT.

AngieJ. Gee, I forgot Al Sharpton in my list of unsavoury Obama associations.
I don’t give a hoot about GWB – that’s off topic. Just for your information, I’m not a Republican. Of course, I’m not a Democrat either.
I only judge policy, competence, honesty, integrity – not party affiliation. If anything would describe me, it would be a conservative independant who doesn’t like to be taken for a fool. I can smell a fraud when I see one, to mix up the metaphors a bit.

Someone needs to impeach all the Democrate’s and start all over again.

The Republicans and their followers have reached a point of no return, and should simply march the streets yelling “white power”, rather then pretending to represent anything else.

The White House had no comment on the rally in Washington. An aide instead referred reporters back to the president’s own rally…..
Yes, just keep ignoring the American people — and just wait until the 2010 mid-term elections and Nancy Pelosi is no longer Speaker of the house.
Hopefully Charley Rangel, Barney Frank Chris Dodd and a many others will be gone.

Alyson. Read my other posts. And what do conspiracy theories & unsavoury associations have to do with each other? The conspiracy theory in question is about where Obama was born.
His unsavoury associations, particularly the Rev. Wright, Ayres, Rezko, Sharpton, etc. are a separate issue.
As to competence, leaving aside the HealthCare fiasco for the moment, just look at the disasterous & very incompetent foreign policy, amateur-hour in The White House.

James Danley. I’ll take your word for it – I think it’s a bit late to worry about Chester A. Arthur. I haven’t the foggiest idea of where Obama was born, I just think it’s odd that someone would spend a million dollars or so on legal fees when he could just release the document. Same with school transcripts & other records from his past. Why create the suspicion, his own actions fueled the issue? Is this the famous transparancy we were promised?
There is obviously something Obama wishes to hide, some inconvenient fact.
Eventually, the truth will out.

60,000 people wasting their time is what it amounts to…These folks can rant all they want about big government but they are okay with government spending when it benefits them or advances their cause…Where were these people when all that government spending was going down the rat’s hole in Iraq?

Looks like there was a lot more than 60,000 using crowd photos and the guides the police use to estimate crowd numbers there were likely over a million people. Yet again, the MSM tries to suppress a more reasonable count to avoid criticism for being caught with their pants down. Of course, if this had been a war protest during the Bush Admin. with a mere 5,000 folks, it would have been the lead story on the New York Times for days.

And what do conspiracy theories & unsavoury associations have to do with each other?
***
A lot. But it’s not worth explaining if you don’t get the way it works. The point was more for people who get how it works. I read your other posts, btw. Hence, my assessment of the logic therein.
And MayBee, I see you’re quoting articles about the numbers from the inauguration (eyeroll)– 1.8 million is a lot closer to 2 million than 60k– and if you’ll recall all the issues with people getting through tunnels and this and that, you’ll note that yesterday’s even wasn’t close– which doesn’t mean it wasn’t impressive, but what in the heck is your point? Check out photos of the two events to see how silly the inflation of numbers was.

Yes, Alyson. I misread that article. My mistake entirely.

WWW- I misread an article. The first is talking about the inauguration. The Parks Service won’t give an estimate for yesterday. The number Yunji gives isn’t an official number either, but people can see with their own eyes, I suppose.

Ron. I’m troubled by ANYONE’S association with the likes of Al Sharpton & that would include Newt Gingrich. I feel the same about all the praises to so-called conservative Robert Novak who was a truely despicable person or Pat Buchanan who is equally despicable. Similarly, I don’t much care for Mr Dodd, Mr Frank, or that other crook, Mr Daschle.
A crook is a crook – dishonesty, race-baiting, useing race to make money, cheating on taxes, lying, misrepresenting, influence peddling – these unfortunate aspects of some of our public figures have nothing to do with party affiliation, race, sexual orientation, or gender.

Jess Askin. And if the legal fees came to $500K, it’s the same. I read the million dollar number on a few sites, there are at least 14 different legal cases, no matter the amount, why not release the information? Why fuel a controversy? What’s the problem with releasing a birth certificate, school transcripts, etc. ??? Transparancy, right?

“I was looking for news headline by ABC like this walk tea party in Washington DC, I don ‘t see anything.”
Go to the ABC News home page. Look for the heading “Top Headlines.” Read down the list until you find “’Tea Party’ Protesters Slam Spending, Obama.” Click on that link and you will be taken to the article.

How can anyone take seriously “protesters” who carry signs and chant about mafia, nazis, communists and go back to Kenya?? These “protesters” are mobs who apparently care more about war spending than they do helping their fellow americans. If it were not so, why were these people not “protesting” when Bush was given blank checks worth millions to kill their fellow americans and others?? Why were they not acting like heathens back then???

If Obama could, I think he would treat any dissenters the way Iran treated their protesters.
Anyone standing up to the government is an embarrassment to Obama and he wants to shut us down.
He was supposed to change the way Washington works. Many thought that meant fighting corruption not taking our freedom away and bankrupting our country.

Jess Askin. Reputable? Like the mainstream media is reputable, right?
Do you think the NYT is reputable? Or the L.A. Times? Is the BBC or CNN reputable? Even Fox, in which a large bloc of stock is owned by Saudi interests, has it’s credibility problems. I read approx. 25 blogs, newspapers, & other sites every morning while I have my coffee (I’m retired), also some sites in Israel,France, England, & Belgium, occasionally, in Holland. I compare the coverage on the same story, I often check facts or look up historical references. I also frequently look up biographical information on the authors of articles when possible. I don’t accept anything as 100% true – things can just be weighted by probability. Obviously, trust is not my strong-point – so asking me if a source is reputable ….
By the way, you didn’t answer my question.

Those marchers certainly DO represent the mood of a segment of the country. And, despite the inflatable numbers, 50,000 people is nothing to sneeze at. I wonder who the unnamed “D.C. Officials” Jake cites are, since DC has had a policy of not doing crowd estimates for quite a few years now.
The sense of entitlement and resentment among the crowd was strong. It will be a while before this disaffected group comes to grips with the fact that we actually do have a legitimately elected black President.

The right wings media criticism is a bit unsophisticated, the say the least. Although I am a leftist, I DO resent the press’ attempts to marginalize those who are actually willing to take to the streets, and I DO believe that left and right have common cause in wresting control of government from Wall Street.
Therefore, let me suggest that you right wingers start to study the mechanisms of social control built into the media, a subject the left has spent a good bit of time studying. Start here:
“For those who stubbornly seek freedom, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination. These are easy to perceive in the totalitarian societies, much less so in the system of ‘brainwashing under freedom’ to which we are subjected and which all too often we serve as willing or unwitting instruments. ”
From the great Noam Chomsky

“The British newspapers were there — and they reported between one and two million. Same as the Capitol police.”
Are you talking about the birther legal fee claims or the Washington rally crowd estimates? By the way, most news sources say D.C. police declined to provide an estimate. As best I can tell, it was Michelle Malkin who made the claim that “Capitol police” estimated the crowd at 1.2 million.
___________________________________
“police made statement of 2 million”
Which police and where did you hear/read about this?
____________________________________
“Do you think the NYT is reputable? Or the L.A. Times? Is the BBC or CNN reputable? Even Fox… etc. etc… Obviously, trust is not my strong-point – so asking me if a source is reputable …. By the way, you didn’t answer my question.”
So I take your “public record” information comes from wnd or right wing blogs.
By the way, my answer to your question is that Obama did release his birth certificate. But birthers and certain others get a kick out of raising new hoops and demanding that he jump.

Does anyone rememeber Presidents Obama’s electorial campaign? He clearly let the public know that our economy was in a shamble and would get worse during his presidency. He also stated that it would then get better through reform and though some tough decisions needed to be made the American public would appreciate his contributions.
People, do not lose faith in your leader! We voted him into offer because we saw a toughness and practical minded candidate that spoke in truth and transparency. Our health care system has never worked the way it should. It is broken and if the corporations that currently govern it will not make affordable care available so we Americans can live longer and healthier then then shouldn’t we welcome and opertunity to have another option? One that may cost more in taxes but one indeed that will give everyone an opertunity for quality health care.
I hope the public can stop focusing in there individual lifes and personal wealth and can begin to consider what’s best for our society as a whole. After all wasn’t it our own greed and desire to get rich quick (Stock market in the 90′s and Housing market of yesterday) that put us in this troubling situation in the first place?
Obama didn’t make you lose your wealth or cause our country to become bankrupt. He’s just a man attempting to clean up our mess.
Give Him a chance to do his job.

Still waiting for correction to article.
1. Source was anonymous post from @dcfireems , the use of “Washington, D.C., officials” seems to used to give more credibility to a source that isn’t justified. 2. Have you called DC Fire/EMS and ask for a named source and a update to the attendance numbers they believe were there – official or unofficial? 3. Estimate from tweet was 12:43 PM, not a time that would necessarily indicate the total attendance. 4. It was an “unofficial” count as stated in tweet.
twitter acct name @dcfireems : UPDATE – several people treated for injury and illness on the Mall nothing extraordinary unofficial crowds 60,000-75,000 UNOFFICIAL12:43 PM Sep 12th from mobile web
Past Posting Times:
Posted by: Adam | Sep 13, 2009 2:45:42 PM
3 others I didn’t save

…are *described as* displaying…

@007 – Don’t forget those that generally distrust media reporters that went to Yale University or University of California at Berkeley and lived in places like HI or San Francisco, CA.. :)

Protests are as American as apple pie and are not exclusive to Democrats or Republicans. Having seen the arial video of the DC protests, there were WAY more people there than reported. No doubt many democrats participated, too.

MSNBC showed aerial video of the DC protest. Clearly, there were more than one million Democrats and Republicans there in protest.

“Yes, from that angle one can easily do a head count and clearly read the identifying Ds and Rs shaved into scalps.”
It would be naive to believe that only Republicans attend these protests.

Oh, I wouldn’t call us “tokens” – and believe me, there are more than a “few.”
You can take THAT to the bank, Boo.

Lol. I hope that poll gives you comfort. :D

Good night, all.

“Please join me and my family in writing letters to these media outlets telling them why you are canceling their news papers and stop watching their stations.”
Good luck to you and your family in dealing with writer’s cramp. I don’t believe there are any major media outlets in the entire U.S. that report crowd size in the millions. “Tens of thousands” is the description you’ll find virtually everywhere, including Fox News.

New ACORN corruption video released. This time it takes place in New York.
ABC, PLEASE cover this story.
Thanks.

Anyone with basic mathematical and analytical skills would be able to estimate this crowd to be well, well beyond “60,000 – 75,000″). This crowd was EASILY in the hundreds of thousands and may have reached as high as 1.5-2.0 million.
Posted by: tjp612
that immediately disqualifies a large segment of the GOP…. you know, the earth is only 6000 years old crowd..
these folks are too funny…. now they have to lie about crowd size so they don’t feel even more inferior

Why does it matter what the MSM reports, no one believes them anyway. Of course the crowds were much larger in DC that reported, IF reported at all.
From AP:
“The news media’s credibility is sagging along with its revenue.
“Nearly two-thirds of Americans think the news stories they read, hear and watch are frequently inaccurate, according to a poll released Sunday by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press.
“That marks the highest level of skepticism recorded since 1985, when this study of public perceptions of the media was first done.
“The poll didn’t distinguish between Internet bloggers and reporters employed by newspapers and broadcasters, leaving the definition of “news media” up to each individual who was questioned. The survey polled 1,506 adults on the phone in late July.
“”The survey found that 63 percent of the respondents thought the information they get from the media was often off base. In Pew Research’s previous survey, in 2007, 53 percent of the people expressed that doubt about accuracy…”

I’m glad to see that the 912 march covered on ABC “news”. Of course the numbers are understated but what do you expect? It must not be news if it isn’t in favor of our president!
Now, where’s the coverage on the corruption at ACORN?

Jim, “white power” huh? Looks to me like some of the misinformed white folks voter for O also, won’t happen again tho, we won’t make that mistake again!

Alyson – Your attempts at coyness are shallow at best – We know who “The Liar” is…Anyone who pays any attention to politics has a pretty good idea of the leanings of northern IL and WI voters…
What in Glenn Beck’s reporting is untrue? What has Sarah Palin said that is not true? As usual, libs are quick to label conservative “boogeyman/women” in Alinsky fashion, but rarely have any substance to back up claims.
If you were to ask me the same questions of Obama, I’d have to take a day off of work to document all of his lies. OBAMA IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!

Posted by: tjp612 | Sep 14, 2009 1:28:43 PM
Temper, temper. Who is considered The One/The Liar depends on who you ask. Since I do read fact checks I could make an argument that any talk show host or politician or commenter on here is a “liar.” Easily. So could you. So what? Its not that hard, tjp. But it IS a distraction. And a game, one that Republicans think Dems don’t see or something. We see you, okay? We get it. Pretending that my comments are less substantive than yours– when you still think there were as many people in DC for the 9/12 protest as for the inauguration– just makes you less credible to me. You don’t win points for calling my response to your ginned up accusations “coy”, or bringing up Alinsky (eyeroll.) You just prove how far removed from reality you are.
On a more substantive note, I suggest you look up northern Illinois and Wisconsin districts and how they vote before you call me out for being disingenuous next time. I was in Paul Ryan’s district. Ever heard of him? He’s not a Democrat.

@ Alyson -
“I’d also point you to the new WaPo/ABC poll.”
You mean the one titled “GOP posts small gains in latest WaPo-ABC poll”?
“he still enjoys sizable leads over the congressional GOP on health care as well as the economy and deficit reduction.”
Really? Are you sure you are reading latest numbers (9/14/09)?
Here’s the article – Not a lot of good news for The Liar-in-Chief:
> The Washington Post-ABC News’ latest numbers, released Monday morning, also suggests voters are growing frustrated with the president and both political parties, increasingly trusting neither to handle those signature issues effectively.”
On HEALTHCARE, OBAMA’S TRUST RATING stands at about 48 percent, a modest DROP of FOUR POINTS since July. REPUBLICANS, however, GAINED about two points of support in that time period, while more than one in 10 said neither was equipped to handle the reform process.
That slight shift is also evident in poll’s look at the parties’ ability to MANAGE THE ECONOMY. In that measure, OBAMA LOST NEARLY 8 POINTS’ worth of support, dropping from 58 percent to a still-comfortable 46 percent. The GOP, meanwhile, GAINED FOUR POINTS, from 33 percent to 34 percent, while the ranks of the “neither” group swelled by about three points.
But most concerning for both sets of lawmakers: 19 percent said they felt neither Democrats nor Republicans were best equipped to handle the “main problems” soon to confront the country — an increase of about 10 points since February. Tellingly, a NUMBER OF THOSE NEWLY UNSURE VOTERS SEEM TO BE DEMOCRATS, WHO LOST ABOUT 8 POINTS’ WORTH OF VOTER APPROVAL in the poll’s measure of PARTY SUPPORT. <
=========================
Alyson, I am not a defender of Bush and Republicans. Prior to last November, I hadn't voted since 1992 (Obama and his re-distributionist policies got my attention real quick – I am indicative of the many who are now paying attention to what goes on in DC). Obama is leading country in the WRONG direction on so many levels. Yet, there are so many who still (either due to Bush Derangement Syndrome, ideology, limited social circles, life experiences, youth, etc.) are unable to fully understand the wider implications of the policies this administration advocate to ALL of US down the road. Some (as further witnessed by poll) are waking up.

I’m curious why the Hugh ACORN scandal in 3 major cities is not being reported by the All Barack Channel, I guess the nuts don’t fall far from the tree!

“You just prove how far removed from reality you are.”
C’mon. Trust me, I am fully engaged in reality. I’ve seen federal govt. operate from the inside and it is not impressive by any stretch. My company has lost 50% of our staff. Those of us left have taken mandatory pay cuts to keep our jobs. I pay my taxes, on-time, in-full (not like liberal heroes Rangel, Dodd, Daschle, etc.).
“On a more substantive note, I suggest you look up northern Illinois and Wisconsin districts and how they vote before you call me out for being disingenuous next time. I was in Paul Ryan’s district. Ever heard of him? He’s not a Democrat.”
So while you grew up in liberal Wisconsin (I’ve done some work with industry in your district – Janesville – Paul Ryan is a good man) and am up-to-speed on Wisconsin politics (including how private industry has been devastated by state policies that are dominated by liberals) and live in a city and state known for dirty politics (“the Chicago Way”) you call me out for being “removed from reality”? You can do better. Debate on substance…you have yet to offer anything other to offer than “Bush this…” and “Republicans that…”. Keep in mind that there are MANY of us who disagree with Obama and are NOT G.W. Bush fans (particularly with regards to how he managed the economy).

So while you grew up in liberal Wisconsin…
***
Sigh. Who said that. It’s hard to debate you at all when you put words in my mouth– claimed to know how I did on the stock market last week and where I grew up today just because I went to a party there. I didn’t grow up anywhere in Wisconsin, nor in a liberal area.
I’m done. No need to project your tactics on to me. Have a nice life.

@ Alyson -
“Go to the poll and read the questions and the numbers rather than relying on the spin–”
Sorry, I once again assumed WaPo and ABC were carrying water for Barry, so figured that if this was the “spin” they presented, numbers must be worse that the article would indicate.
Let’s look closer into the numbers.
- You (conveniently?) omitted the polling regarding how OBAMA IS HANDLING THE FEDERAL DEFICIT: 55% DISAPPROVE, 39% Approve
- More Americans STRONGLY DISAPPROVE of how Obama is handling HEALTHCARE and THE ECONOMY than STRONGLY APPROVE (38/32)
- Americans are split on how Obama is handling Healthcare (48/48)
With regards to “who do you trust more (Democrats or Republicans)” it is not uncommon for Democrats to lead Republicans. In fact, within the data set presented (back to 1982) Democrats LED Republicans in 60 of 82 surveys (i.e., were “more trusted”). Yet, Republicans held the Presidency 18 of these 27 years. Not necessarily an accurate indicator of future voting.

“Because that’s how you bring people together.”
I will not disagree that Beck has been divisive. But I will submit that Barack Obama through his words, actions, and inactions has been even more divisive (I am not stating one man is “better” or “worse” than the other – Obama’s “divisiveness” has been more widespread because Obama has a much larger platform).

“We know the leftists can’t draw a crowd even when it’s bought and paid for.”
More people showed up to protest the Iraq War in DC in 2007 than for the right wing’s desecration of the memory of 9/11.

“More people showed up to protest the Iraq War in DC in 2007 than for the right wing’s desecration of the memory of 9/11.”
How do you figure?
What I found more of a descretion of the memory of 9/11 was Obama’s decision to announce direct talks with Iran and N. Korea on the same day our nation was attacked 8 years ago to the day.

decision to announce direct talks with Iran and N. Korea
Posted by: tjp612
yeah… Iraq, N.Korea and Iran were all involved with the 9/11 attacks right?
we know where the wmd’s are, they’re north east south and west..
mission accomplished

“What I found more of a descretion of the memory of 9/11 was Obama’s decision to announce direct talks with Iran and N. Korea on the same day our nation was attacked 8 years ago to the day.”
What do Iran and North Korea have to do with 9/11?

“Would it be a surprise if either of these regimes were to have a hand in a future 9/11-type attack (either in the U.S. or elsewhere)?”
Like how Iraq was involved in 9/11?
Oh yeah, it wasn’t.

“What do Iran and North Korea have to do with 9/11?”
That you require an explanation is telling…

“Which is why it’s better to move on and ask that person to, with all due respect, keep your name out of their mouth and posts, even if you know they’ll make the dubious yet predictable claim that you cut and run because you’re allegedly afraid of an argument or their cherry picking points which do nothing to dispute the claims you made or their, cough, cough, substance. (WHAT substance?)”
Nice try, Alyson. I admitted I was wrong on my assumption as to where you grew up (believe it or not, geography does play a role in ideology – trust me, I’m not stalking you).
I’ll continue to believe that since you (a.) continue to blame Bush for where we as a nation are and where we are headed (in particular, economically), (b.) have not repudiated any of Obama’s actions (could be wrong, none come to mind) that you are very liberal and a firm believer in your ideology. It’s your right and I know you will probably never change your position/outlook. That’s fine. But let’s be honest, circumventing the conversation to playing the “victim” (I’m “creeping you out”) because I called out (mistakenly) where you grew up is childish.
If you make assertions that are inaccurate or questionable I may choose to respond. And unless ABC News tells me it is against policy to call someone out directly by their name, I may choose to address you by your name (as I do with others – and as they may do to me – I don’t care).

@ Ryan C
“I have my own theories as to why you included them but I rather hear it from you rather than put words in your mouth.”
I’m still wondering why you claim I share same beliefs as “Birthers”…
“There’s a reason I avoid sharing personal details here.”
I would too, if I were you…Outside of my name and address, I have nothing to hide.

tjp612 asked, “What has Sarah Palin said that is not true?”
Just a few examples…
“Death panel” in section 1233 of HR 3200.
Also regarding section 1233: “With all due respect, it’s misleading for the president to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients.”
“I join millions of Americans in expressing appreciation for the Senate Finance Committee’s decision to remove the provision in the pending health care bill that authorizes end-of-life consultations (Section 1233 of HR 3200).”
Regarding legislative “Troopergate” report which found Palin had abused her power and violated an ethics statute: “Well, I’m very very pleased to be cleared of any legal wrongdoing, any hint of any kind of unethical activity there.”

“Death panel” in section 1233 of HR 3200.”
Pretty effective, huh? You betcha!
Last I heard, Palin was cleared of all ethics charges. Could be wrong, let me know.

“Death panel” in section 1233 of HR 3200.”
Pretty effective, huh? You betcha!
Last I heard, Palin was cleared of all ethics charges. Could be wrong, let me know.
______________
You asked what Sarah Palin has said that is not true. I provided a few examples. Interesting how you completely avoid the fact that she lies. And lies BIG too.

I was soooo happy with I was one of 75,000 Marchers who are main stream American in the 912 march. Even though I had to wake up 3:00 am to arrive at 10 am in the Capital in DC. My Rally’s Sign was;
“STOP PRINTING US$1,000,000,000,000.00″
“STOP BORROWING MONEY FROM COMMUNISM COUNTRY,CHINA”
“STOP AIDING HAMAS TERRORIST GROUP, US840,000,000 AND ABORTION TO ABROAD US100,000,000.00″
“STOP SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY”
I don’t expect any more to have hope for America from Obama’s rhetorical speech, but I could realize that real hope for America would come from 75,000 Marchers.

The story that cracks me up is the one at Politifact titled “Tea party” photo shows huge crowd — at different event (twelve years ago!) It cracks me up that there is this incessant need to lie about the numbers.
Pants on fire!

A reporter from Florida had a professional camera crew that documented the crowds as they filled Pennsylvania Avenue, the side streets and the mall. The report was that 450 chartered buses (50 passenger) which had to register for the event were there, plus the church vans, private vans, the private vehicles that came into the metro lots, locals that came in by metro and those that flew in and used metro.
This reporter estimates 1.5 million and has interviews with park police about it. The reporter is going to release a DVD so all will be able to see the camera pan over the crowds and the various interviews with people. Apparently the Nazi sign was a freak and the event was much more orderly that the Obamedia would have us to believe.
The president pretended he wasn’t aware of the event and spent $400-$500K of our dwindling money to go to a union picnic in Minneapolis. ABC had a story on that, but it was mysteriously pulled???
We’ll see if he appears at the upcoming Muslim event!!!
I don’t know how to call attention to the DVD when it is released so that all that want it can find it. Any suggestions out there?

“Upon reading some of these comments, it becomes clear that the left is loosing this and all the king’s media and all the king’s pundits can not stop His Royal Highness from plunging in approval.”
Obama’s Approval Index at Rasmussen (the choice pollster of conservatives) was at -3 yesterday; the best in 2 months. Today’s overall approval rating was evenly split at 50% Approve and 50% Disapprove.
The RCP average currently stands at 53.2% Approve, 44.2% Disapprove.

“Well Numeros, not a bad spin.”
No spin. The most staunch conservatives who post on these blogs consider Rasmussen the most accurate pollster. The information I provided was copied verbitim from the Rasmussen website.

“The White House had no comment on the rally in Washington. An aide instead referred reporters back to the president’s own rally.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As if the W.H. isn’t well aware of the 9-12 D.C. Rally, and the sheer numbers involved!
That’s probably why Obama was off to Minneapolis, speaking to yet another of his captive audiences.
Indeed, it’s quite telling that Obama is touring the country, preaching to only his already singing choir-boys and girls.
Unions? The AFL-CIO? C’mon!
How can they even raise a legitimate question? They’ve already received their “stimulus!”
But, whenever 1 million+ private citizens of all colors, all ages, and from all walks of life, should gather for one specific purpose –
that of having their legitimate concerns heard by Congress, and the W.H. –
you can bet your behind that Obama is paying very close attention!
Yet, he’ll continue to schedule countless more of his “preaching to the choir” events.
He needs those cheering audiences for the media coverage, and to include in his health care ads.
And he deserves them, too.
After all…we, the American taxpayers, have already bought those groups for him.
Not to change the subject, but….
I’ve trained my dog to bark for a biscuit.
Isn’t that neat? :)

“One thing I learned in psy ops training is that when you are doing well the opposition starts sputtering, name calling, marginalizing, ranting and generally running out of meaningful vocabulary.”
I’ll bet Ed doesn’t see the irony in this statement at all. :-)

Even if only 75,000 people were marching on 912, that only represents a portion of the people that feel the same way the protestors in DC did! I mean, come on, there were 200 other tea parties just THAT DAY ALONE across the country… what about all the people who have families and jobs and can’t make it, but wish they could have! You doubters fuel our fire, so keep it coming!

Alisdre6as writes:
“…there were 200 other tea parties just THAT DAY ALONE across the country… what about all the people who have families and jobs and can’t make it, but wish they could have! You doubters fuel our fire, so keep it coming!”
Well said!
We held a HUGE local 9-12 Rally, with live video feed to the bigger ones.
And the latest count of the D.C. attendance I’m hearing is about 1.7 million!
That number has been comprised from a combination of a) the 2+ hour long video of the crowd streaming up Pennsylvania Ave.; b) statements made by at least 3 different Park Service agents — who claimed the march was the largest crowd ever to gather on the grounds of the Capital; and c) a computer calculation of the crowd’s size, reported by one of our university research teams.
So, yes….the 9-12 Rally may well have been the biggest gathering, so far!
LBJ Inauguration.(1.2 mil)
“Million Man March” (838,000)
Even the Obama Inauguration fell short of previous estimates. Although NPS has yet to release an official count, it was well under 2 million.
So, if another D.C. rally becomes necessary (plans are already in the works)….it could go down in history as the “50 Million Mad March.” ;)

Isabel – again, you’ve provided quite a lot to comment on.
First of all, it’s good to hear that you are proud to be a part of this nation. And on that much, we can definitely agree.
You have concerns about the health of those who cannot afford medical attention.
I have those concerns, as well.
And I doubt anyone here would wish ill of your grandmother, or others who are in dire need of care.
It is the law that those in need of medical attention, must be treated.
But, we are not a nation of millionaires, either.
And the costs resulting from the patient who is unable to pay their bill, is passed on to everyone.
Higher costs for everything from a simple visit to the doctor, to the price of medication, to the daily charges for a hospital stay, to the rising cost of health insurance premiums –
all are directly related to the patient who could not pay.
In California, for instance — 84 hospitals have recently closed, due to financial difficulty.
Each of those hospitals had treated so many destitute patients — many of which were here illegally –
that the facilities were unable to remain open.
Needless to say, there are citizens who have already died, due to a lack of timely treatment.
When seconds matter, the proximity of a hospital can be a life or death issue.
Neither of us could make the argument that one life is more important than another.
In my case, at least, I would consider that a decision best left to God.
Still, we are often required to make some pretty tough decisions, ourselves.
And as we are also human, our decision-making skills are not perfect.
And that’s why we have “laws.”
Because, laws are the very closest that man can come to making the fairest, and most just decisions for all involved.
In this country, anyone in need of medical help should, and will receive it.
And your visiting grandmother is no exception.
But, as for the illegal immigrant worker who has been injured — were that worker here legally, state compensation would have covered the costs of the injury, and loss of wages.
Yet, that worker will still get medical treatment, even though he or she has broken the law, and are here illegally.
And, although I agree that those employing illegal immigrants are taking advantage of the worker — the illegal worker is also taking advantage of the situation, and a country where all are expected to abide by the law of the land.
Isabel, the world is full of good people, many of whom would love to come to America.
And many do, through legal immigration.
So, what if we abolished all of our immigration laws, and just invited everyone to move here?
Wouldn’t that be a great opportunity for so many good people, who deserve a better life?
Think about that.
That’s exactly why we have immigration quotas, and why a certain number of people, from various parts of the world, are allowed to come here, each year.
Otherwise, our country would quickly become far worse a place to live, than the place most immigrants had left.
Of course, that would make the U.S. equal to those other countries, wouldn’t it?
But then, where would you and I go…for a better life?
Finally, regarding your closing comments about the pending Medicare Prescription Drug legislation — sadly, I doubt that the extension will be passed.
And even if it does, the “Obama Plan” would actually cancel most, if not all of Bush’s prescription drug benefits….and perhaps, the entire Medicare program.
Obama has already stated that he intends to cancel the Medicare Advantage program…one in which nearly 55% of our Medicare recipients currently participate.
Otherwise, the money just isn’t available for the “Obama Plan.”
Even he has admitted that his “Plan” might require cutting as much as $500 billion from Medicare benefits.
And raising our individual income taxes an average 16%, is also being considered.
Politics aside…Obama’s “Plan” is simply not affordable.
And that’s not even the worst of it!
The rallies and marches aren’t just about money.
People are much more concerned about our country….
and where those in power are taking us.