Obama Invokes Kennedy Memory in Health Care Speech to Congress

Is it too late to nominate Obama and Nancy for an Academy Award.
That was quite a performance.

Great letter, good speech.

Missed the speech b/c of Back to School nite. God, I probably would have killed myslef or thrown up, so just as well.
I was predicting ahead of time Obama would propose naming the bill for Kennedy. I just KNEW there would be some touching moment that involved Teddy.

Missed the speech b/c of Back to School nite. God, I probably would have killed myslef or thrown up, so just as well.
Posted by: liz | Sep 9, 2009 10:57:36 PM
If you have an address, I can mail you a copy of his speech on DVD.

The whole Mr. Obama’s speech and clapping seemed staged and fake.

-By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer Alan Fram, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 51 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Public disapproval of President Barack Obama’s handling of health care has leaped to 52 percent, according to Associated Press-GfK poll that underscores the country’s glowering mood as the White House made a renewed pitch for an overhaul.-
More right-wing propaganda from the AP!

The whole Mr. Obama’s speech and clapping seemed staged and fake.
Posted by: young_voter | Sep 9, 2009 11:03:04 PM
And the fact that he just HAPPENED to have a podium there, and like all these people just happened to be sitting around…
I agree. It almost seemed like they planned this out in advance.
_____________________________________
Hahahah . . .. nice one barfly.

By the way, it was an excellent speech. And I think we’ll see some pretty dynamic legislation coming forward.
I know all the right wingers are in the wind trying to discredit anything the President says or does, but it was everything most thinking Americans wanted to hear.
It’s mostly the anti-Obama automatons of hate who step forward to robotically say ‘Obama failed again’, ‘Obama stupid’ and so on . . .
Guess what, you’re going to be left behind in the dust/ and if you don’t start working to fix the total destruction Bush did to this country, we are in for real hard times.

nancy didn’t jump up and down as much as during state of union. still, poor joe, has an obligation to stand when she does, so he gets a good aerobic workout. beyond that i have nothing positive to say about the speech. just trying to keep it civil…

“Public disapproval of President Barack Obama’s handling of health care has leaped to 52 percent”
___________________________________
This is completely understandable, but this figure will change.
Why do people disapprove? Because they’re tired of all the political bickering, the hateful posturing of the right, the lies about “Kill Granny” and “death panels”. People get worried by that kind of crap, and that’ what the Republicans and the right count on.
So people arent’ against health care and they aren’t against Obama, they are against the way the health care preparations have gone.
Once this is all pulled together – and it isn’t far off – the numbers will shift upward.

So there was no word on how the test case of making the USPS solvent is working out?

“This is completely understandable, but this figure will change.”
Of course, this has been said over and over by left wing loons since his numbers started falling in July. His numbers have now fallen into the territory where nothing may be passed.
You CAN articulate a point more eloquently, but that doesn’t mean that people will agree with you just because you find a better way to say it.

Despite hefty Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate, centrists in Obama’s party have balked at the president’s proposal to create a public health care plan to compete with private insurers.

This has been a very bad evening for the statist. They are demoralized and in disarray, and that makes me very happy. I am much happier than they are.
Anybody wonder why?

President Obama is my President, and I’m proud to say so.
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | Sep 9, 2009 11:21:02 PM
**
Me, too. He did a good job tonite, and I love that he worked in a good explanation of liberalism, American character and the moral imperative underlying reform, why a public option is a good idea, that it would pay for itself rather than be funded by tax subsidies and so on. And he called out the lies. Good for him :>)
He succeeded which is why Boehner looked so glum, Wilson lost his mind and shouted in a public forum and the Republican response sounded so very out of tune and blah.

-Despite hefty Democratic majorities in both the House and the Senate, centrists in Obama’s party have balked at the president’s proposal to create a public health care plan to compete with private insurers.-
Palin and Cheney must have gotten to them.

Obama says he won’t sign a bill if it adds one dime to the Federal Deficit, yet the CBO has determined that H.R. 3200 will add $1 Trillion to the deficit over the next 10 years – a bill the President supports.
This guy is ludicrous. You can’t expect people to believe you’ll wave your “magic cost-cutting wand” while adding millions to a government run program.
Although…if you tax the American people to death you could do it. But you’ll run out of rich people to tax before paying for this fiscally irresponsible boondoggle.

I loved it when BO said he was going to speak directly to the seniors.
But he couldn’t look directly into the camera because of his addiction to TOTUS.
Obama looked like he was watching the US Open tennis match.
Don’t believe him seniors.
There will be rationing.
Trust your gut and common sense.

Obama wants 50 million uninsured people in a government program, yet he claims it won’t raise the deficit or increase taxes.
Here’s an equally ludicrous statement:
I’m going to buy a million dollar home tomorrow and it won’t cost me a dime.

-We still need a lot of details-
Like how it will be paid for, right? Alyson how much additional money do you send in each April to pay for people’s healthcare. It is morally imperative, I’m sure.

Is it possible that Obama and his political hacks have actually “awakened a sleeping giant?” Sure looks that way.

What a bore Obama’s become. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a person drone on and on without stating specific actions.
Obama has no mojo left. I heard someone say that his healthcare pitch sounded like an info-commercial that promises you can sit on the couch, eat all you want and you’re going to lose weight, promise! LOL….that is about right!!
Obama is a tone-deaf ideologue when it comes to healthcare reform.

Temagami, Catch a clue. I was responding to “Lies” who posted that, likely in sarcasm. Sheesh.

Jimbo
Maybe Hillary is for the plan and thats why she greeted him so warmly after the speech…however it couldve been staged and I tell all of you that abandoned Hillary last year I told you so…maybe I should wait till this bill fails or that you dont get everything you want… they are delaying the announcment of more troops in afganistan to appease the ACORN types

-If I can afford my own healthcare insurance and then am forced through increased taxation to pay for your health insurance am I not now a slave to you as I provide the fruits of my labor to you and you provide nothing to me in return?-
Yes. And that’s the idea.

“Well, we can balance a checkbook. Still haven’t heard how this wonderful healthcare will be paid for, much less save money.”
__________________________________
Gee, if you could only get a good Republican like someone from the George Bush administration on your team.

Posted by: BH | He called out the liars and fearmongers and I’m very glad he did. They are liars and fear mongers and deserved to be called out– but he didn’t say every member of the opposition was a liar or fear monger or all opposing ideas were
lies or fear-based. I actually think he still reached out and said he’s willing to listen to truly bipartisan ideas that meet the objectives he wishes to meet. IMO, that’s fair. As an Obama supporter who wants health care reform and is sick of the GOP obfuscators, I wouldn’t have liked it if he had been timid about it. It takes two to negotiatate and the many Republicans have shown very bad faith. And btw, he and his admin also met with Republicans such as Olympia Snowe between now and April. Some Repubs may feel shut out but perhaps that’s a bed of their own making. I read that all three Republican bills (which basically revolve around the same old, same old– tax incentives, deregulation and tort reform– and don’t consider the comprehensiveness of the problem or the composition of the Senate and House) have been forwarded to the Senate Finance Committee. Apparently, the Gang of Six didn’t find them serious enough to invite them to the table. In addition, the President mentioned using one of McCain’s ideas as an interim measure, and has asked Kathleen Sebelius to start work on medical malpractice reform pilot measures. Not “bipartisan” exactly, but not a slammed door either. Let’s see if any Republicans have the guts to step forward and work cooperatively.

NEC
thats darn right… Health care mut be partially subsidized by your employer period…some of us have to pay it all ourselves so by the presidents definition since I have health care I cant buy into it

“Of course, there’s no proof offered for such labels…it’s just the reflex response for anyone who disagrees with a liberal’s ideas.”
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It’s as if you haven’t been paying an attention at all BH. You’ve been living in blissful ignorance of the lies, smear campaign and fear mongering that’s been going on? Pay some attention, you’ll see it repeatedly in here . . .

“He called out the liars and fearmongers and I’m very glad he did.”
Alyson, as usual you’re not serious about this, otherwise, you’d be calling the President a liar. Here’s what the AP had to say tonight about fear mongering:
OBAMA: “Don’t pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. … That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare.”
THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.”
..and when private insurance companies refuse to pick up the tab, guess who will?

” And you forgot to tell us how this health plan will be paid for and all the savings and such…”
_____________________________________
Same way the war in Iraq was paid for, only this time it’s going to help out Americans, not oil companies and Halliburton.

This was the forceful speech that would explain everything that Obama wants in his health care bill?
As usual he has no backbone and is as vague as he usually is.
Did you get what you wanted Dems?
Are you feeling better about that public option?
When the cameras are off Obama will settle for anything just to put his name on a bill.

“Passed a prescription drug benefit without paying for it” posted by Alyson
That would be some of the 500 billion in out of control spending Obama is planning to rob from Medicare to pay for out of control spending on health care for the uninsured. Don’t be looking a gift horse in the mouth there, Alyson.

-OMG. The hypocrisy STUNS, doesn’t it, Julie?
Borrowed money for war without asking for sacrifice from Americans other than the troops
Passed a prescription drug benefit without paying for it
Passed tax cuts without offsetting them with spending cuts
And on, and on, and on….
In recent history, Dems have much more credibility on this score.-
Obama wants to increase the debt ceiling. You’d think Bush was still POTUS. You realize that Democrats have kept funding the war, right? Why didn’t Democrats vote against the drug plan when they had the chance? Of course 2 wrongs make a right….And like I asked Alyson, how much extra money have you sent in this year to fund the moral imperative of healthcare? And those details you mentioned about the health plan, how will it be paid for and what will the savings be? Julie can’t seem to answer that. Maybe you can. Obama missed his chance tonight too.

There needs to be a move towards lower cost for health care in general whether that means public options or not… there also needs to be a ban preventing coverage for pre-existing conditions that alone would fix but both democrats and republicans both get contributions from health care so that wont happen and for that matter the bill wont take effect till after an election year

We right-wingers are winning, and we will contnue to win, on this issue. Their whole house of cards is collapsing. I am laughing quite lewdly, but it seems that they are very grim and bitter.
Imagine their distress at confronting the notion that they may actually have to provide for themselves.

OMG. The hypocrisy STUNS, doesn’t it, Julie?
Borrowed money for war without asking for sacrifice from Americans other than the troops
Passed a prescription drug benefit without paying for it
Passed tax cuts without offsetting them with spending cuts
And on, and on, and on….
___________________________________
Hypocrisy seems to be the stock in trade of the Republicans.
We saw what there boy George Bush did with his ‘small government’ budget. Liars, the lot of them.
Having sex with page boys and they guy in the next stall and pretending to be squeaky clean married Christian family men. There is a hypocrisy that runs through the lot of them and makes lying come easy.

“The AP finds even more distortion and a flip flop!
OBAMA: “If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage.”
THE FACTS: It’s not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.
In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.”
Posted by: BH | Sep 10, 2009 12:09:00 AM
OK, that one was a straight cut and paste from Fox. “The facts” have nothing to do with the assertion, they are a deliberate attempt to put a negative spin on an important point (this reform would decouple health insurance from employment).

-we are about to escalate in Afganistan thats what they dont want u to know.-
I think you’re right.

Fascist – I am with you, but do you realize that if John Kennedy were alive today he would be considered a right winger? That is how far the Democrat party has fall. Says a lot, no??

the president is pretty much endorsing the Baucus senate plan which will moe away from that house bill they are talking about

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.”
Posted by: BH | Sep 10, 2009 12:09:00 AM
***
This is pretty stupid as he flat out said at the beginning of the speech that he was taking ideas from his opponents in the primary (Clinton and Edwards– the individual mandate, duh)and the general election (McCain, the interim measure he described.)
Okay, I really have to go read this thing comparatively because in clips like this, it sounds pretty off and like it was written by a high schooler who hasn’t been paying attention.

ah the 1960s talk… I can imagine them sitting in the oval office talking about cash for clunkers that was what they did in the 1960s and 70s to raise money for charitable projects… a little back to the future but then again they cant do that with health care since its a third of the economy

“Okay, I really have to go read this thing comparatively because in clips like this, it sounds pretty off and like it was written by a high schooler who hasn’t been paying attention.”
Yeah, that’s it. Demean anyone you disagree with. That’s what the AP wrote, so blame them if you don’t like it.

Some adult needs to pick up this colicky
little president and give him a good
shoulder-burp. Nancy would seem to be
a logical pick, but she’s too busy
trying to ramrod this travesty through
the halls of Congress.

“That’s what the AP wrote, so blame them if you don’t like it.”
BH | Sep 10, 2009 12:26:55 AM
So will you start accepting all the AP’s debunking of the rights blatant lies? Things like death panels (a complete lie), providing illegal aliens with benefits (a complete lie – unless fining them under tax for not buying their own private insurance counts as a benefit), payoffs to ACORN (a stupid lie), the government will have access to your bank account (a complete lie), etc…
So do you accept the analysis of the AP’s factchecks as accurate on BOTH SIDES now, or only when they are pointing out the handful of exaggerations in Obama’s speech?

Did someone say ACORN?
“The Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office issued arrest warrants for each of the 11 suspects, all of whom worked for the local chapter of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now or ACORN.” = Today’s Miami Herald.
I’m sure they registered Republicans, they’re sooo prevelant in Dade Co! LOL.

“I’m sure they registered Republicans, they’re sooo prevelant in Dade Co! LOL.”
______________________________________
You think there aren’t Republican criminals -
Check out Scooter Libby – committed FELONIES while working in the second highest office in the land. Cheney’s right hand man.
Perjury, obstruction of justice . . . and so on. …

So do you accept the analysis of the AP’s factchecks as accurate on BOTH SIDES now, or only when they are pointing out the handful of exaggerations in Obama’s speech?
Posted by: jhw539 | Sep 10, 2009 12:33:25 AM
***
Gotta love how BH fails to note all the points that were true, correct, and so on, which was most of the speech. And while we need numbers and to see the math, he admitted lots of details still need to be worked out to laughter– duh!
As for preventive care, there have been all kinds of articles about the way CBO looks at it and the benefits long range. It increases costs in the shorter ranges of time because enough time doesn’t pass to show the cost saving– that’s a very basic explanation, but the situation is more complex than it raises costs and that’s that and the CBO says this so forget preventive care.

he admitted lots of details still need to be worked out to laughter– duh!
Posted by: Alyson
what we do know, is that Republicans will do nothing .. so, you don’t believe details need to worked out and that they should try to work them out……..sad…. off to the FEMA camps with you…

Okay, this post by me was gobbly gook, and I apologize:
As for preventive care, there have been all kinds of articles about the way CBO looks at it and the benefits long range. It increases costs in the shorter ranges of time because enough time doesn’t pass to show the cost saving– that’s a very basic explanation, but the situation is more complex than it raises costs and that’s that and the CBO says this so forget preventive care.
Here’s a partial explanation that’s better from NEJM:
“Careful analysis of the costs and benefits of specific interventions, rather than broad generalizations, is critical. Such analysis could identify not only cost-saving preventive measures but also preventive measures that deliver substantial health benefits relative to their net costs; this analysis could also identify treatments that are cost-saving or highly efficient (i.e., cost-effective).
In addition to determining which preventive measures and treatments are most efficient, it will be necessary to identify those that are not yet fully deployed and those that could serve a large population and bring about substantial aggregate improvements in health at an acceptable cost. Findings that some cost-saving or highly efficient measures are underused would indicate that current practice is inconsistent with the efficient delivery of health care. Other services might be identified as overused, and such findings would underscore the importance of fashioning policies that provide incentives to shift practice toward more cost-effective delivery of health care. In the face of increasingly constrained resources, there is a realistic way of achieving better health results: conduct careful analysis to identify evidence-based opportunities for more efficient delivery of health care — whether prevention or treatment — and then restructure the system to create incentives that encourage the appropriate delivery of efficient interventions.”

out of touch with average Americans.
Posted by: BH
are those ‘average’ Americans the same as the now infamous ‘real’ Americans who live in the ‘real’ America spoken about so often during the campaign by a certain winking ex-Gov from Alaska who quit their office?
too bad all those non-’average’ non-’real’ Americans voted the Republicans out of office all over the place…..

There was nothing misleading in the quotes I provided, you just didn’t like how ridiculous they left the Presidents assertions, so as usual you call names.
Posted by: BH | Sep 10, 2009 1:14:07 AM
They didn’t make the president’s assertions sound ridiculous at all. You cut two of them off at a given place, removing part of the context. You accused me of demeaning you and got a tad persnickety when, as it turned out, you were just misinterpreting and projecting cuz I was talking about the writer of the fact check. You said that there was a 50/50 ratio of truth to iffy math or distortion. You accused me and others of being in the tank and misused poll numbers to mislead on where the President stands. So, as far as I’m concerned I’m just telling it like it is.

BH,
You are hilarious. No I don’t mean the whole article. If you don’t get it or do get it and choose to be that disingenuous, go for it. I already posted the full context on one of them, so I’m fine. Noted the sleight of hand. Corrected it. Moving on. Take care.

“You said that there was a 50/50 ratio of truth to iffy math or distortion.”
No, I didn’t. You leaped to that conclusion all on your own.
However, there are, at least, three huge whoppers told tonight that were central to the President’s plan that the Press (and your good friends in talk radio) is going to have a field day with this week.

“If you don’t get it or do get it and choose to be that disingenuous, go for it.”
This is just code for…a crisp, white flag of surrender.

p.s. – the Ashley Todd hoax is the one where the white girl claimed a black Obama supporter beat her and carved a ‘B’ in her face.
A complete hoax.

BH. We would not expect you to be fair or decent to the President in any way.
You have your personal agenda to smear the President, why would you point out anything good about his EXCELLENT presentation – why let fairness or decency get in your way?
And your figures are wrong. Polls in majority show job approval rating for Obama above 50% and in the 55% to 60% range.
Bush was at 30%.
But why let facts get in your way?

“However, there are, at least, three huge whoppers told tonight”
BH | Sep 10, 2009 1:30:19 AM
Huge whoppers? The AP considers them:
“The change was subtle, but significant”
“That’s correct, as far as it goes.”
“Democrats have already shown they’re ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.”
“Studies have shown”
But keep up your exaggerations. Sadly, it’s expected from the Chicken Little Republican Party at this point.

“JHW539 was caught lying about what the CBO had done. He’s ashamed now, and wants to change the subject. But he’s been exposed as a liar yet again, and so there is little reason to pay attention to him.”
Fascist Hyena | Sep 10, 2009 1:08:06 AM
What are your talking about? Cite the time of the post you claim I lied about what the CBO had done – specifically please. Feel free to google it up (these boards are indexed). These boards are a free time distraction, not my job. I find it interesting that you seem to find it surprising that anyone might have to disappear for a while to work a real job.

“The change was subtle, but significant”
“That’s correct, as far as it goes.”
“Democrats have already shown they’re ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.”
“Studies have shown”
Wow, and you guys accuse me of ripping quotes from context? Go read the story again, jhw, particularly the AP headline:
FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge

“Yes, speak up BH.”
Have you ever signed a 911 truther petition, Julie? C’mon speak up.

Obama didn’t sound much like a leader tonight. He sounded more like he was up against the ropes by . . . radio and television talk shows. If he is that think skinned and threatened by THEM what’s he gonna do when he faces a real threat from some rogue nation?
Obama just didn’t appear presidential at all tonight. Especially with Pelosi sitting behind him grinning like a 9 year old too small for her britches in a position that is way over her head. Obama should start acting presidential of an American republic and less like a petty dictator like Hugo Chavez who shuts down and, like Obama, criticizes his own media.

“BH is big on comparisons and faux equivalency but, finds it very hard to live with the fact of republican extreme fringe lies…. repubs just can’t admit they make mistakes… sorta like Iraq”
Of course. The fact that I think Palin, Beck and Rush are nutters and the Republican party is bankrupt of ideas and credibility, makes me just like them. And that I’m a fan of Max Baucus and enjoy listening to Dem. pollsters Bob Beckel and John Zogby makes me a total right wing loon!
Get a clue.

“me calling it a hoax is the exact same thing as me flogging it even after it was found to be a hoax.” Posted by: Concerned in OH | Sep 10, 2009 2:15:29 AM
_____________________________________
Oh you had no choice but to quit flogging it once your were completely outed on it.
Then you became an apologist for it. “How many people’s lives were ruined by this woman’s hoax?” etc.

“Especially you jhw539. You should know better.”
CiO, don’t hold your breath. The dude just makes stuff up as he goes.

and the hits keep on a comin’…..
oh those family values, wonder if he was hiking too?
California state Rep. Michael Duvall (R-Yorba Linda), a married champion of family values and traditional marriage, was picked up on a live mic at a committee hearing graphically boasting of his sexual encounters with not one but two mistresses (one of whom is a lobbyist with business before his committee).

“Critics of the president’s plan have said Americans ages 65 and over could find their Medicare benefits reduced as a result of the health care overhaul.”
_____________________________________
What would you expect ‘CRITICS of the president’s plan’ to say? And why would you presume they are right and also presume the President is lying?

left out secessionists…

I don’t know which speech Karen Travers was watching, but her report was a little right-wing. No one in their right mind could see that the President was fair and forceful and that the seated and heckling Republicans played idiotic on TV. She “reported” that Republicans would not be swayed. How does she know this? Did she interview any Republicans? Orrin Hatch. John McCain, Chuck Grassley, who were Ted Kennedy’s friends? Where does she get off ASSUMING Republicans’ thoughts? Maybe do some reporting/interviewing first? Seems like this type of reporting should be short-lived.

I think Cantor has his head in the sand. 90% of Americans have health care – my ass. Where has he been living? Not here in Arkansas, obviously.
My husband (uninsured & unemployed) is going to India to have surgery that is a medical necessity because all the hospitals around here want a minimum of 20K cash for an outpatient procedure. (If my husband had insurance, the hospital would only received about $3500 for the procedure because of their contracted pricing with the insurance companies)
He can go to India to have it done, stay in the hospital for 4 days, a 4 star hotel for 5 days all for a cost of around 7K plus the doctor went to med school here in the US and the hospital is affiliated with Johns Hopkins.
No, the good ole US doesn’t have any problems with health care.(LOL) I think these conservative asses need to spend a little time out in the real world for a change and maybe they can get a grasp of how things really are.
You think maybe Fox has some kind of subliminal message that is brainwashing people? It is starting to make me wonder. How somewhat educated people can become so irrational when they believe lies and rhetoric without questions or facts.

Lindsey Graham summed up the speech nicely:
“I was incredibly disappointed in the tone of his speech.
“At times I found his tone to be overly combative and believe he behaved in a manner beneath the dignity of the office. I fear his speech tonight has made it more difficult — not less — to find common ground.
“He appeared to be angry at his critics and disappointed the American people were not buying the proposals he has been selling.
“The president’s confrontational demeanor increased the emotional and political divide.
“I hope the President will learn that true bipartisanship begins with mutual respect. Criticism of a public official is to be expected and not all criticism is demagoguery.
“When it comes to the public option, the President is either being disingenuous or misinformed. The public option, contrary to the president’s claims, will eventually lead to a government takeover of our health care system.
“One could easily be led to believe tonight’s speech is the beginning of a ‘go it alone’ strategy.
“If the Obama Administration and congressional Democrats go down this path and push a bill on the American people they do not want, it could be the beginning of the end of the Obama presidency.”

The President cannot square the circle whereby 40+ million people join the healthcare pool and no one nor the cost is unaffected.
He needs to level with the American people and give them the truth to swallow.

Obama repeats his lie about ObamaCare not covering illegal immigrants for the 1000th time. And somebody finally “speaks truth to power.”
Obama himself once said, “If you misrepresent what’s in the plan, we will call you out.”
Well Congressman Wilson did just that.
The One says that his plan will not cover illegals, yet the Dems have prevented the addition of ANY enforcement mechanism to protect against this fraud.
You have to show your ID to attend a Town Hall meeting and exercise your 1st amendment right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Yet we will not check ID’s of anyone applying for taxpayer funded healthcare.

BD, I feel terrible for your husband’s situation and I hope all goes well for him. I assume you have checked into eligibility for Medicaid? His COBRA coverage ran out? (You do realize one of the useful things in the stimulus bill, for people in your situation, is a subsidy related to COBRA payments– you would only have to pay 35% of the premium and the rest is subsidized somehow) No hospital would discuss payment on a sliding scale, based on income, and an extended payment plan? I know that must be extremely frustrating for both of you and am glad you found a resource in India that you trust.
The fact that your husband is unemployed and uninsured does not, however, negate the fact that over 90% of Americans do indeed have insurance (or are on Medicare or Medicaid.) He is part of the 10% or less who do not have coverage. No reasonable person, including Cantor, disputes that there are many people who are uninsured but who like to be– but that number is probably in the vicinity of 14 million, not the 45-47 that gets bandied about and that the president knocked down to 30 million in his speech yesterday. If one uses the 46 percent figure the Dems usually use, then that could be considered something like 18% of the population (I am doing numbers off the top of my head, so I may remember them slightly off– my apologies). But since that figure is way wrong, it skews the percentage also. If you use the number the president used last night of 30 mil, you’d get something around 11%. Get to the real number of uninsured who are not eligible for existing programs (around 14 mill) and you get less than 6%.
Responsible Republican leaders and lots of ordinary citizens (Dems, Reps, and none of the above) like me agree that there is a need for some health care/insurance reform. We do not agree with the president’s approach. We have made suggestions that have been ignored. That does not make us ostriches with our heads in the sand nor does it make us out of touch with reality.
FOr example, I favor vouchers from the government to help those like your husband who need coverage but cannot afford it at the moment. The unemployed could also be served, perhaps, with temporary enrollment in Medicaid after their COBRA coverage has expired (and with assistance to make COBRA payments, which can be high). No need to create another government entity to provide the insurance, just government assistance in obtaining the insurance from existing sources.

BH is big on comparisons and faux equivalency but, finds it very hard to live with the fact of republican extreme fringe lies…. repubs just can’t admit they make mistakes… sorta like Iraq
Posted by: 007 | Sep 10, 2009 2:15:35 AM
And I see BH kept on missing the point after I’d moved on last night. So, this is for the people on here that don’t get what I was talking about with context. One of Obama’s “supporters” is the AARP. From the AARP (hat tip: Media Matters)–
“Myth: Health care reform will hurt Medicare.
Fact: None of the health care reform proposals being considered by Congress would cut Medicare benefits or increase your out-of-pocket costs for Medicare services.
Fact: Health care reform will lower prescription drug costs for people in the Medicare Part D coverage gap or “doughnut hole” so they can get better afford the drugs they need.
Fact: Health care reform will protect seniors’ access to their doctors and reduce the cost of preventive services so patients stay healthier.
Fact: Health care reform will reduce costly, preventable hospital readmissions, saving patients and Medicare money.
Fact: Rather than weaken Medicare, health care reform will strengthen the financial status of the Medicare program.
Bottom Line: For people in Medicare, health care reform is about lowering prescription drug costs for people in the “doughnut hole”, keeping the doctor of your choice, improving the quality of care, and eliminating billions in waste that is causing poor care and medical errors. [AARP, accessed 9/9/09]“

Alyson | Sep 10, 2009 9:22:14 AM
How will this be paid for? Please give us the details that Obama left out of his speech.

Imagine if food stamps were administered/issued the same way Obama would like to administer healthcare (“take as much as you’d like with no additional costs to you!).
Incentivizing and allowing individuals to make choices regarding how they spend healthcare funds (be it their own money or provided by the government) will bring costs down. Instituting a bureaucracy of 53 new federal government agencies and mandated coverage will not.
But, let’s be honest – ObamaCare obviously isn’t about providing more and better healthcare at lower costs. It’s about federal government expansion.

“From the AARP (hat tip: Media Matters)–”
Oh, please. Does this mean that nutters on the right get a free pass when they start quoting the “NRA’s fact check.”

@ Alyson:
“Fact: None of the health care reform proposals being considered by Congress would cut Medicare benefits or increase your out-of-pocket costs for Medicare services.”
What about the elimination/discontinuation of Medicare Advantage that Obama supports ($177 Billion in cuts over 10 years)?
(Medicare Advantage was enacted in 2003 to allow seniors to use Medicare funds to buy private insurance plans that fit their needs and their budgets. They get better care and better value for their money. Seniors enrolled in Medicare Advantage are generally happy with the coverage they receive – But given it provides citizens “choices”, naturally Liberals are not fans of the program).
Your sources of your “facts” would not be considered “nonpartisan” in nature (AARP and Media Matters) which chips away at the credibility of the “facts” you present.

For the sake of the following people, health care reform needs to be defeated. Stephen J. Hensley-CEO-United Health. He had to take a pay cut from his $13.2 million in 07 to $3.2 million in 08. Michael McCallister-Humana CEO-dropped from $10.3 million in 07 to $1,017,308 in 08. Ronald A. Williams-CEO Aetna-$23 million in 07 to $24,300,112.00(an increase)in 08, but his stock options dropped to $194,496,797.00. The list goes on of health care CEO’s who are suffering. Can’t you people see how bad these folks are hurting and they need your help. Their lifestyle is being severely threatened. They have had to increase payments to lobbying firms and donations to political campaigns over 300% this year in order to field an all out attempt in preserving the status quo. They need our help desperately.

AARP is the American Association of Retired People. You go ahead and call them whatever names you want.
Now the right is picking on old people and the facts they present.
Nice. What a bunch of creeps.

Alyson, your remarks posted at 9:22:14 AM are clearly too general in nature. Yes “healthcare reform” MIGHT do exactly what you say. But “healthcare reform” MIGHT ALSO do exactly the opposite of what you say. Thus: hurt Medicare; cut Medicare benefits or increase out-of-pocket costs; might raise prescription drug costs; might limit seniors access to their doctors and increase the costs of preventative services; might increase costly, preventable hospital readmissions, costing patients and Medicare money; and might weaken Medicare.
That’s because there is the RIGHT way to implement “healthcare reform” and there is a WRONG way to implement “healthcare reform.” “Healthcare reform” that increases competition will have a much different effect than “healthcare reform” that eliminates competition.
I am not against “healthcare reform.”
I am, however, against the public option that is outlined in HR 3200. That’s because it will eliminate the private sector and result in a single-payer system run by the federal government.

For a while there last night I was sure Speaker Pelosi was going to squeeze out a tear during the eulogy to Uncle Ted. But alas she could not muster enough energy to melt some of ice for the occasion. Joe did, however, pass a forefinger across his cheek in a passable representation of an emotional man sweeping away a teardrop.

The Republicans and the right wing commonly pull out lies, distortions, smear and fear campaigns and often plain hate spewing to attack for political purpose.
There is little decency or class displayed.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see John McCain cross the floor to the Democrats in disgust over the conduct of his party, his colleagues and those who pimp and lie for them.

Alyson wrote: “…(Charles Boustany) was sued three times for malpractice and each time the patient was awarded money for the level of treatment…”
Many malpractice cases are settled out of court to save court costs and years of litigation. So just because a doctor has been sued and the patient was awarded money doesn’t necessarily mean the doctor was actually in the wrong. Sometimes it’s best to just settle and move on since the doctor needs to be in his or her office treating patients and not spending hours/day/weeks in a courtroom.

Healthcare reform, instead of being centered around tort reform as it should, is instead being used as a carrot to illegal aliens to continue to flood America with new built in constiuents for the Democrats.
It also unionizes all healthcare workers, another nice bonus for the Dems in the push to complete the transition from political party to just plain “The Government”.
Idiots like Bush & McCain are have just been helping, not resisting this seachange.

@James Danley
The reverse of your argument is also true: just because a doctor isn’t sued doesn’t make him right.
The facts show that the vast majority of victims of medical malpractice don’t even bring a claim.
This is because only the most expensive mistakes are worth it to lawyers because of the huge expense of filing a claim.
In addition, alot more people don’t even know that they were victims of medical malpractice. Even though most hospitals are required to report their mistakes, they don’t. Doctors do not tell patients they made a mistake, so patients just think they are unlucky.

“The Republicans know little of behaving with class or a sense of dignity. Nothing is beneath them.”
Do I need to trot out AGAIN all the examples of the demonizing of G.W. Bush over the past 8 years (including the blatant hope for his assassination thru a movie – “Death of a President”, talk radio – Randi Rhodes, t-shirts – “Kill Bush”, etc.).
Democrats/Liberals have NO/ZERO moral high ground to stand on with regards to calling out others for perceived mistreatment and slights conferred to members of their own. Let’s just move on. I realize it is a great diversion from defending Obama and other libs, but it does not help in promoting your cause.

“Now the right is picking on old people and the facts they present.”
To the contrary – I’m picking on the group (AARP) that represents “old people” (your term, not mine). Have you noticed the drop in AARP membership since July?

“He’s polarized the entire nation in only a few months.”
_____________________________________
Nonsense, it’s the fanatical Republic right wing that has been INTENTIONALLY stirring up lies, distortions, and a fear and smear campaign for political advantage.
And to try to blame in on the President.
Despicable.

“Nonsense, it’s the fanatical Republic right wing that has been INTENTIONALLY stirring up lies, distortions, and a fear and smear campaign for political advantage.”
Is there anyone who has “INTENTIONALLY stirred up lies, distortions, and a fear and smear campaign for political advantage” more than President Barack H. Obama himself?

Vacation is over.
We’re going to see Obama’s dopey grin on TV every single day.
Need some snakeoil?

Joe Wilson is a Dead man walking (politically). Big mouth not brains.
When the Weapons of Mass Destruction were proved a lie, none congressman scream to the President “YOU LIE’

@tjp,
Maybe you aren’t aware that $10 billion in the bill does not go to the UAW. It actually goes to all corporate and union plans. It just so happens that big businesses with unions are twice as likely as ones without to have retiree benefits. The bill does not discriminate between union and non-union.
Thanks to Detroit’s twin auto bankruptcies and other concessions, the UAW’s voluntary employee benefit association, or VEBA, had to take stock of unknown value for $24 billion in claims, while adding thousands of early retirees to its rolls.
Of course, this problem would be immediately eliminated if we passed Kennedy’s “Medicare for All” bill, and the retirees could be moved into that.
Medicare Advantage subsidizes private insurers. Whey should my tax money to to private insurance, which skims 30% off the top, instead of directly to doctors and hospitals?
Advantage plans have not lived up to expectations. Advantage insurers charge the government more money, not less, requiring a taxpayer subsidy that averages 14 percent more per-patient on top of what traditional Medicare pays providers. That’s an extra $1,138 per Advantage enrollee nationwide
Medicare Advantage plans also tend to limit the doctors that seniors can see, just as traditional insurers do.
Obama has not proposed eliminating Advantage, despite rumors to the contrary. His proposals would scale back the subsidies, using a funding formula to put Advantage on parity with traditional Medicare.

Of course, this problem would be immediately eliminated if we passed Kennedy’s “Medicare for All” bill, and the retirees could be moved into that.
Posted by: Flash Override |
Big problem with that….the unions won’t allow it.

As for the “health care plan”, exactly WHAT is the plan???? Obama hasn’t even presented a real plan yet. Alternating yes and no on public option only adds to the vagueness of the phantom plan. His speech was a complete waste of time.
It’s impossible to sell an overhaul of the health care system of the U.S. when over 80% of Americans are satisfied with their current plans. Most people are simply not willing to pay more and receive less for their health care.
Obama is lying when he claims “that any American who wants to keep their current health insurance may do so”. That’s a bold lie. The fact is most Americans aren’t in charge of their health insurance plans, their employers are. Employers, unions, would force their employees to take the public option in order to save themselves money while burdening the taxpayers with higher taxes and greater deficits.
A public option will result in less care and more cost. Not what I want for myself or my family.
The fact is we do not have unlimited resources in this country. We have limits on health care (not enough providers, doctors, etc.) land, water, food, energy and jobs. We must set strict limits on legal and illegal immigration if we wish to maintain our quality of life.
Obama has lost all credbility. He can’t reclaim it. Obama was and remains unqualified to be President. The democratic party needs new faces of leadership, Pelosi, Reid and the invisible DNC chair Kaine all must go.
Camille Paglia is right, the Democratic party has become elitist. Follow the money trail, you may not like what you find. If only the media had done it’s job and vetted Obama and tracked the money he would not be President today. Hillary would. It’s time to rectify the tragic mistake and replace all leadership, Obama, Reid, Pelosi and the invisible DNC chair Kaine.
Hillary 2012.

“Obama wants to cut waste?
Maybe he should cut funds to those crooks in ACORN.
Why isn’t he outraged over that?”
millie | Sep 10, 2009 10:18:52 AM
Probably because it’s just another right wing lie.

“Joe Wilson is a disgrace to South Carolina but am not surprised.”
____________________________________
Yes, and every legitimate media in the country has spoken in support of what the President said. Joe was simply wrong.
Boy those Republicans looked defeated and pathetic last night. They’re absolutely losing all credibility.

When I think of “character” Teddy Kennedy is not the first thing to enter my mind.

“And those ranked consistently the most satisfied? Those who use socialized health care, aka welfare.”
jhw, I don’t know the source of your assertion, but given that people have higher expectations for purchases made WITH THEIR OWN MONEY your assertion may be accurate.

So why does their (UAW/Big 3) problems become our (taxpayer) problems?
Posted by: tjp612 |
because we elected democrats.
Think public option/single payer is about competition? There’s a thousand health insurance companies in this country. Think you could get two of them to offer coverage in Alabama? That would be more competition that the pu/sp would provide. Po/sp is about creating the largest government bureaucracy in the US staffed with card carrying unionized democrats. It’s not exactly tom friedmans dream of a Chinese style gov’t but it will do.

@ julieterra,
“Right wing Republicans don’t understand flaws”
No, I don’t understand how driving off a bridge into in a tidal channel on Chappaquiddick Island and then leaving a woman to die trapped in car without calling for help to be a “flaw”. No, I don’t understand, you are right.

@ Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn | Sep 10, 2009 11:24:05 AM
Bingo!
Appreciate the Friedman tag at end.

“That means $1.22 billion for the intended purpose, and $1.66 billion for administering the money for the intended purpose (OVERHEAD!)” Posted by: Handout Czar | Sep 10, 2009 11:33:05 AM
_________________________________
The right wing gets it wrong, again – as usual.
Washington — Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said today the administration has paid auto dealers $1.22 billion for 289,000 of the 690,000 vehicles sold under the “cash for clunkers” program.
LaHood said the department has 5,000 people working to process voucher requests and will complete payments by the end of the month.
Dealers have sought about $2.877 billion during the program that ended Aug.24. The department has said it expects to spend about $100 million administering the program.

“$100 million for administering the program? Thats lots of healthcare Sounds efficient…”
______________________________________
Running a $2.887 Billion dollar program on $100,000 is exceptionally cost efficient.

Alyson, your remarks posted at 9:22:14 AM are clearly too general in nature. Yes “healthcare reform” MIGHT do exactly what you say. But “healthcare reform” MIGHT ALSO do exactly the opposite of what you say.
***
James, I don’t have time to dig in to the argument that could be had right now when I believe and have said we obviously need more numbers and details, as the President and Congress acknowledged, but, just to be clear, that was precisely my point from the other side. All that MIGHT stuff. My post was a continuation of an argument from last night where a partisan on your side of the aisle (who claims not to be necessarily despite much shrill which would indicate otherwise) didn’t understand that proclaiming Obama a liar to me and insinuating that I knew him to be a liar or ought to based on a cut and paste quote from an AP fact check which lopped off two paragraphs and the portion of the argument I presented, the part I’d be more likely to give at least equal weight to if not more given my worldview, was misleading and so on. Not sure if that’s clear, but I thought the missing context would be important to Dems, which is who I want to rally so that we stay unified and moving forward on health care reform without being distracted by purposely misleading posts and other baloney.
As for a right way and wrong way to introduce competition into the insurance marketplace, I’ll make myself crystal clear. I worked in health insurance and managed care for 16 years. I find Wendell Potter to be spot on. It sickens me to give one cent of my money to insurance companies. I don’t hate all business, but I do very much want a choice other than the current choices available. I believe it is worth fighting for. I have a hundred reasons why. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will persuade me that the interest of patients are best served by the current insurance market or the companies in it. I know better. I know it in my heart,soul and mind. I’ve been marked by it. Everyone is free to pontificate and put forth their market theories, of course. I’ve had a front row seat to claims issues, provider issues, recission for technicalities, heart break, soullessness for profit. I worked with some great people, sure, but the business itself is set up to incenticize denying claims. There are some things the market works best for. The way this market works is not patient-centered. We’ll never, ever, ever agree if you’re in the insurance companies’ corner, and it’s likely you are. Keep your insurance, just allow me and those who distrust insurance companies way, way more than they distrust the people who do Medicare for their parents and grandparents a good alternative option.

Would one of you for this plan please enlighten all of us where specifically in the United States Constitution either the Executive branch or the Legislative branch is given the power to get involved in providing a government run healthcare system for all of the citizens of this great country? The Constitution lists 17 enumerated powers of the Legislative branch and I cannot find providing healthcare listed as one of them nor can I find it listed as a power granted to the Executive branch. Please read the 10th amendment and enlighten us why the providing of healthcare would be a federal government responsibility and not the responsibility of individual states in accordance with the 10th amendment.
Where in this document does it state that we all have the right to healthcare (it may be a moral right but I mean a granted right by the Constitution) even if we cannot afford to pay for it out of our own pocket? If I can afford my own healthcare insurance and then am forced through increased taxation to pay for your health insurance am I not now a slave to you as I provide the fruits of my labor to you and you provide nothing to me in return?

- Giveaway of $10,000,000,000 (billion) to UAW pension fund to provide healthcare insurance to retired UAW members
- Eliminates Medicare Advantage, which provides choices for seniors and better care
- Institutes 53 NEW federal bureaucracies (mo’ govt. jobs = mo’ votes for Dems and more influence)
How about the government FIX Medicare, Medicaid, VA, Indian Health Service and Social Security BEFORE pushing ObamaCare?
***
It looks like Flash Override responded to the first two more articulately than I would, so there you go. I haven’t looked at the number of jobs that would be created, and would want to see the final bill for numbers and job descriptions, but I understand the concern. As for the last thing about fixing those things, there are a couple ways I look at that. Aren’t 80% of folks surveyed supposedly satisfied with their health care? Medicare recipients are among those most satisfied. I’m not sure what kind of coverage the other 20% have, but I’d be curious to see numbers– how many are recipients of VA care, how many have Medicaid and so on as well as what your issues are, and whether those issues somehow dispel with the need to enforce health insurance reforms. The argument doesn’t make as much sense to me as it seems to to the opposition, unless you’re throwing out all reform because you don’t want a public option– and if that’s the case, I think it’s shortsighted as premiums will double in approximately seven years given the current trends, and people will continue to have issues due to pre-existing conditions and recission.

please enlighten all of us where specifically in the United States Constitution either the Executive branch or the Legislative branch is given the power to get involved in providing a government run healthcare system for all of the citizens of this great country?
Posted by: sandcrab1612
whether it’s Dems or Repubs….
the constitution is a meaningless document as long as a president can use ‘signing statements’ …
btw: where in the doc does it prohibit it?
re: I not now a slave to you as I provide the fruits of my labor to you and you provide nothing to me in return?
lame…..’fruits of my labor’?

007 – You obviously have not read or begun to understand the document as it was written by our forefathers.
The 10th amendment states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The powers delegated to the United States (federal government) by the Constitution can be found in Article 1 for the Legislative branch (Congress) where 17 enumerated powers are listed, Article 2 for the Executive branch (President), and Article 3 for the Judicial branch (Federal Courts).
Per the Constitution healthcare for the citizens is not within the powers granted to the federal government by the Constitution but per the 10th amendment is a power reserved for the individual states.
Our forefathers realized that there would be need for change over the years and provided Article 5 of the Constitution as a means to accomplish needed changes. If the federal government is to take over healthcare which is a states right then let’s change the Constitution correctly instead of pulling things out of the air and the federal government deciding that they are going to do things which they have no right doing per the Constitution. The Constitution is a living document due to the provisions of Article 5 which allow for changes to be made as required.

“I came to believe that soon, very soon, affordable health coverage will be available to all…”
Yeah, he thought the same in 1973, when he championed HMOs as “affordable coverage for all.”
Hmm, how’s that workin’ out?
And in 1978, Kennedy said “HMOs have proven themselves, time and again, to be effective and efficient for delivering health care of the highest quality” (March 3 1978 in a hearing advocating giving more legal power to HMOs).
So, I’m thinking looking to Kennedy for making smart long-term choices isn’t wise. He totally forgot he helped create the insurance mess.
Obama’s choices and memory won’t be any better.
But hey, the deathbed speech plays well.

Once again President Obama has not done what he said he would do. His speech was a waste of time and did nothing to “answer the big questions” as he claimed. He still has not explained how the plan will be funded, who will be covered and what will be covered. Instead he showed his arrogant attitude regarding his policies and his disdain for anyone that would disagree. He called his opponents liars and accused them of being the problem. Why does he not look the American people in the eye and explain his plan in detail? We are not going to stand for another 900 billion dollar “I didn’t read the bill” mistake. We have not had socialized health care in this country for 213 years, why do we need to pass it next week?
If you want to see government health care at work, take a close look at Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration. My own father is a devout Democrat and an 80 year old veteran of the Korean War. In October of 2008 he had his hip replaced at the VA hospital. He was on a waiting list since May 2005. He waited for 3 ½ years for the operation. Now the VA garnishes 80% of his Social Security check to pay for his prescription medications. Last month he received $197.00 for the entire month after the VA deducted for his medications. He can barely walk yet he has to work just to keep a roof over his head and buy a few groceries, at 80! That is the reality of government run health care, here and now. If you think adding 50 million uninsured people to the system is going to make some drastic improvement, go for it and good luck to you. Don’t ask me to be a part of it, I’ll fend for myself.

In President Obama’s speech last night he said, “Let me be clear – it would only be an option for those who don’t have insurance. No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5% of Americans would sign up.” 5% of 300 million is just 15 million people. We are going to overhaul the entire system with a 1,000 page law that will apply to only 15 million people! THAT IS A LIE!

This makes Rush’s prophesy come true!