At Dole’s Request, White House Tells DNC to Pull Health Care Reform Ad

Um, did I miss a quote from Dole where he SAID his words were twisted? Did I miss a paragraph where it said the White House produced the commercial? (The DNC did.)
Ohio is supposed to be smarter than this.
Buckeyes represent!

Who needs him. Pass the frigging health care bill with a serious public option. If we can find 1-2 trillion for the Bush/Cheney arms industry giveaway, we can surely manage to pay for what the rest of the civilized world has had for decades now.

The head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, must of made one of those “inspiring” phone calls to him.

-If we can find 1-2 trillion for the Bush/Cheney arms industry giveaway, we can surely manage to pay for what the rest of the civilized world has had for decades now.-
500 million was already spent on Gore’s buddies to build cars in Finland. Sorry…

Real Republicans left the Party years ago. The shrinking 30% who still call themselves Republicans are an extremist bunch of anti-government backwards Southern racists.
A public option IS reform. Everything else just lines the pockets of the Insurance Companies.

Maybe Dole should cut his eyebrows, and he’ll remember what he said.

to mshare: Limbaugh is not the head of the Republican, not literally, not figurativly. He is a ridiculous excuse of ‘talking head’ that should be ignored by all intelligent Americans. Stop spreading such filthy, stupid lies.

to concerned about Ohio: Here ya go…I realize the word ‘twisted’ isn’t there but anyone (with an IQ above moron) should be able to understand that’s exactly what he meant. For those below that IQ level, you can’t be helped anyway.
“I wish they hadn’t done it,” Dole said of the DNC ad in a phone interview with ABC News on Sunday afternoon, saying that the ad’s depiction of current GOP leaders “is just not my view.”

I really wish the people in this country would stop being so divisive, petty, and hateful toward each other. This Democrat vs. Republican thing has gotten out of control. The “temperament” of politics in general has gotten out of control.
All Republicans are not evil bought-and-paid-for pawns of American corporations. There are incompetent and ill-intentioned politicians on both sides of the aisle.
I don’t think that the Obama administration has anything to do with the new divisiveness in this country. I do, however, think that the campaign effort started by Obama has contributed heavily to this anger. We heard a call to “change” – yet we still don’t know what “change” really means. I think many people (especially those too young to have seen our government work for very long) expect that this means a revolution of sorts.
Well, I hate to disappoint these people but that just isn’t going to happen. If we get change, it will be slow, deliberate, and implemented with wisdom not anger.
So lets lose the anger toward one another and start working together. I think Fmr. Sen Dole and the White House seem to be in sync now. Let’s not undermine that with more anger and untruths.

is there no end to the capacity for puffball fakery on this administration’s part?

I guess what Mr. Obama should do is focus all his attention on foreign policy and to hell with the rest of us here at home like Bush did for 8 years. Maybe he should create false issues for people to believe in like Bush did. Republicans have no room to talk about anything. They definitely shouldn’t call anyone a liar because quite frankly, no one is better at it than they are. They did nothing significant in 8 years and they continue to attempt to destroy anything and anyone who tries. I know your game and I’m not playing.

Neither the DNC nor the President lied here. Bob Dole said what he said to the KC Star. He just does not want it used by the DNC as if he were endorsing health care reform because his party’s leaders are dead set against it and any other initiative prioritized by Mr. Obama.

Robin “Who needs him. Pass the frigging health care bill with a serious public option. ”
You poor, misguided soul. Passing the bill will mean nothing if Republicans pick up 50, 60 , or 80 seats in the mid-term elections (Some are predicting 100 seats). If the healthcare bill is not done in a bipartisan manner the Democrats will take a beating and the provisions of the healthcare bill will never be implemented. Currently, 33% support the bills passing though congress while 55% oppose them. Nearly 2/3 of seniors oppose this bill — seniors dominate mid-term elections. I believe we are seeing the Democrats commit suicide for a bill that will simply never be realized.

to magottlieb: And just when did you have that personal conversation with Mr. Dole that you can state so confidently what he thinks, believes, feels? You never did; you have no idea what Mr. Dole ‘really’ meant or why he did what he did. You are part of the problem.

The Democrats have been arrogant. They have not met with the house Republicans since April to discuss healthcare. The immediately kill any resonable attempt to shape the healthcare bill if it comes from Republicans. They should list; Republican ideas such as allowing insurance companies to cross state lines can reduce cost while costing nothing to implement. Increased use of Health Savings Accounts could also help reduce overall helathcare costs. Unfortunately, Democrats seem more interested in using healthcare as a pretext to increasing the size of government rather than improving the system.

I guess what Mr. Obama should do is focus all his attention on foreign policy and to hell with the rest of us here at home like Bush did for 8 years.
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Then why isn’t he focused on job creation instead of adding to the growing deficit with this bloated health care bill?

The Democrats have been arrogant. They have not met with the house Republicans since April to discuss healthcare. —Jim
That’s a joke, right? Please! The Republicans could care less about reforming health care. That would cut the big money flowing into their back pockets from the health insurance company.
Ideas? Hahahaha. Republicans don’t have any ideas that don’t keep insurance companies stealing and killing Americans, 45,000 of them a year.
Arrogance? The Republicans reek of arrogance in turning a blind eye to Americans who have suffered and died and will continue to suffer and die because of lack of REAL health care reform.
They play the game of calling Obama a liar to COVERUP for the lies and more lies they tell EVERY DAY to the American People.
Obama could cure cancer and they would be against it.
Republicans don’t care about Americans or America! They care only about profit and keeping Americans as ignorant slaves to BIG corporations and Wall Street.

If the healthcare system is in such crisis that the Democrats have to vote on it immediately, why then will the bill not be implemented until 2013?
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Because it will take that long to negotiate the contracts with the providers. Like the Health Insurance Industry, the providers will have to agree to take the insurance issued by the government, at the prices agreed on.

Jenny – are you one of the 500 ex-Congressional staffers (hired by the health insurance and health care companies to protect huge future profits) whose large year-end bonus depends on killing any attempt at health care reform? You seem very intelligent and knowledgeable about the inner workings in Washington…

and to thinking again: You are intelligent enough to understand there is no way to implement a program of this size in less than years. I salute you for that. At least you are not one of the groveling idiots who demand instant gratification without thinking things through. I do have actual knowledge of what it takes. I worked for a Medicare contractor for 20 years and now work for a Medicaid contractor. You see, Medicare and Medicaid are government programs, but the actual day-to-day administration is done by private companies. For Medicare, those companies are usually either insurance companies or wholly-owned subsidiaries of insurance companies or spin-offs from those companies. It is a massive, major process that can easily fail if extreme care and planning is performed at every step.

thinking: come on! Can’t we agree to disagree agreeably? I think we can agree on many things as well. I wasn’t claiming to know what you are thinking. I was questioning how you might know what Mr. Dole was thinking. And, sorry, but I won’t go away.

Inspirational?
Harvard study finds nearly 45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
September 17, 2009
Inspirational Goverment-Run Healthcare Story Of The Week, Part Deux:
Doreen Nicholls, 72, had her healthy leg amputated below the knee after she was wrongly told she had cancer. (UK)
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Oct 11, 2009 6:04:03 PM

I did something very patriotic last night. I wrote my president via email. I thanked him for his efforts to bring access to health insurance to all Americans. I agree in principle with much of the Finance Committee version says. I also disagree with a lot of it. I simply don’t see how we can afford it as it exists. I also have serious concerns about health care availability. We have a shortage of almost every type of health care provider in many parts of the US now.
My one personal concern is that I will lose my employer group coverage. The so-called penalty is a mere pittance to what my employer pays for each US employee. They will drop EGHP for all US employees the very second it becomes legal to do so.
In my email to President Obama I suggested a minimum penalty for the first year should be an average of what the employer paid for 2008 and 2009.
I doubt if he will ever see my email; but I sent it.

Inspirational?
Harvard study finds nearly 45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
September 17, 2009
Inspirational Goverment-Run Healthcare Story Of The Week, Part Deux:
Doreen Nicholls, 72, had her healthy leg amputated below the knee after she was wrongly told she had cancer. (UK)
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Oct 11, 2009 6:04:03 PM
Posted by: Robin | Oct 11, 2009 6:09:22 PM
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Now that you mention it…Yes!
On Sept. 20, 2003, Lisa Strong, a Florida Woman, Lost 2 Arms and 2 Legs after a misdiagnosis by her doctors.

One final quesion; how do you steal $500 billion dollars from medicare and then tell seniors with a straight face that their healthcare won’t be affected?
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Politico 10/08/09
In fact, as recently as April, 137 Republican members — the majority of the House Republican Conference — voted for such a plan in a GOP alternative budget that called for “replacing the traditional Medicare program with subsidies to help retirees enroll in private health care plans.” Under their plan, future retirees would not even have the option of buying into the traditional Medicare program. Medicare as we know it — upon which generations of seniors have depended for health care — would cease to exist once the last retirees still eligible pass away.
Protecting Medicare? No, these Republicans voted to end the program, throwing our seniors at the mercy of the insurance industry, whose practices include denial, termination of coverage for pre-existing conditions, discrimination and sky-high fees for the elderly.
How can the GOP pretend that they Care?

Curt: in case you didn’t see my note to thinking. No, it’s not lame. Well, it’s possible that the Democrats would like to delay it, but it’s definitely impossible to implement the massive changes necessary to make health reform work in just a few months. It is a long, exhaustive nightmare to be truthful. I know because I have worked for a Medicare contractor and for a Medicaid contractor.
When working for the Medicare program I participated in 3 computer system implementations and many upgrades. Those alone take 1-2 years. I also was personally involved in medical policy development and implementing them. One new medical policy requires months of data analysis, writing, re-writing and coordination among all contractors and the federal government. Ghastly.
It takes time, lots of time, hard work, and brain power.

I am not paid by anyone to endorse free medical care; my poor wife and i live on $1,00.00 a month Social Security, and can not afford any kind of Health Cafre and/or Insurance. But, I do pray you will see that the Senators and Represenatives will vote for free medical care for US Citizens!
Please
Bill

“Rasmussen 2-3 Sept survey”
Why are you quoting a poll that is more than a month old? Pew (left wing poll) only shows 33% in a poll released just a few days ago. Rasmussen’s latest poll has support at 41% and opposition at 56% — again very dismal numbers.

I think I’ll go out into my back yard and look under rocks for some gold. I’m sure there’s some out there.

My mistake, it does say 34%

Why are you quoting a poll that is more than a month old? Pew (left wing poll) only shows 33% in a poll released just a few days ago. Rasmussen’s latest poll has support at 41% and opposition at 56% — again very dismal numbers.
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From the same Pewe you just reported
And 55% say they favor a government health insurance plan to compete with private plans, which is largely unchanged from late July (52%).
So it seems that the Senate Bill as it stands does not have wide support in fact looses support because it does not a Government Insurnace plan.

If the government takes over health care it will not be free. The tax payers will pay for it. Look that Canada! Is that what we want?
Smaller Government, flat tax, 10th Amendment.

Eighty percent of us are happy with the healthcare we
have today, if we find the new system does not meet
this high standard it will be Democrats who are
blamed. Posted by: Curt
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That’s eighty percent that can afford the
insurance. What about the hugh percentage that
had to drop the insurance because it is too
expensive!
What you are telling us is that it is now only the
elite that have good coverage. BTW I have 2 jobs,
one used specifically for insurance coverage only.

“Rasmussen 2-3 Sept survey”
Why are you quoting a poll that is more than a month old? Pew (left wing poll) only shows 33% in a poll released just a few days ago. Rasmussen’s latest poll has support at 41% and opposition at 56% — again very dismal numbers.
Today, October 11, 2009, 18 minutes ago | Jenny
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My typo. It should have said:
Rasmussen 2-3 Oct survey: Support for Health Care Reform Plan Up to 46% from previous survey. Support was 41% in 24-25 Sept Survey.
The survey is a week old…as you probably already knew.
However, I prefer to use the Rasmussen since it is the more ‘Conservative Leaning’ poll.
So, when it crosses 50% it is a sure bet…Right?

“And 55% say they favor a government health insurance plan to compete with private plans, which is largely unchanged from late July (52%).
So it seems that the Senate Bill as it stands does not have wide support in fact looses support because it does not a Government Insurnace plan.”
Thinking | Oct 11, 2009 7:15:14 PM
Are you serious? Is this what passes for critical thought on the Right? That’s pathetic – you cannot assume that those 55% do not support the current bill.

Keith | Oct 11, 2009 7:16:22 PM Canada….darn straight, that’s what we want. I have lived in Canada at various times, well over a decade – no waits, excellent care, complete choice of doctors and hospitals, moderate copays, cheaper drugs – and NO Canadian parent has spent a single sleepless night chosing between bankruptcy and expensive care for a sick child. Why do you continue to cheer our way of doing things, we’re the number 1 economy (still) with number 37 health care?

Who is running things in the White House Charlie Rangel?
Understandable since he can get away with just about anything.

“And 55% say they favor a government health insurance plan to compete with private plans, which is largely unchanged from late July (52%).
So it seems that the Senate Bill as it stands does not have wide support in fact looses support because it does not a Government Insurnace plan.”
Thinking | Oct 11, 2009 7:15:14 PM
Are you serious? Is this what passes for critical thought on the Right? That’s pathetic – you cannot assume that those 55% do not support the current bill.
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1st I am not on the right.
2nd we are talking about the PEW research poll that should the favorable ratingh for the current Senate bill at 33%
3rd Pew shows support for PO at 55%
4th There is a disconnect between those numbers what is it? No PO
5th if you are going to jump in follow the thread first

Sounds about right.
Obama is having to fabricate bipartisan support for health care.
He does realize that Dems can do it w/out Repubs? If he had control of his own party.
When Obamacare turns out to be awful Obama needs someone to share the blame.
It won’t be Bob Dole–smart man.

I’m a Canadian, and I’d like to set the story straight…. Our Health Care system has some problems… BUT…works well for us. Wait times are normally for elective procedures. Serious injuries/conditions/treatments are handled in a very timely manner. For instance… I had an ovarian tumour-diagnosed as probably cancerous on a Friday. I was operated on the very next Monday… and post-op was at the Cancer Center as soon as I healed. Had a parotid tumour – operated on within a couple of weeks… successfully!… My bill: $0.00 NIL. We do not have bancruptcies or home foreclosures because of medical bills. When you quoqte the Canadian system, please remember that we outrank the U.S. in life expectancy, and in outcomes.

Ex Senator Dole is on the board of directors of at least one hospital chain that uses very irregular billing practices.

to spacerook1: you said “What you are telling us is that it is now only the
elite that have good coverage.”
I have very good employer group insurance making $35K a year. I really do not think I could possibly qualify as elite.

Best have a strong PO, my hope is that the house which is closer to the people prevail.
Posted by: Thinking | Oct 11, 2009 7:48:04 PM
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I would bet that Barack would support a ‘weak’ PO just to squeak it in. The rationale is that it would cover most (if not all) the remaining left off of the Baucus bill.
He still has to come in under budget. So, he spends $81 billion to start the ‘Public Option’. Then he is at budget target.
Then, he has something that everyone wants (except the Republicans and the Insurance Industry) and it has plenty of competition.
At this point let the Republican filibuster it to death if they can. Barack and the Democrats can say that they did all that he could do for the poor, disadvantaged, and middle class people in the 2010 elections.

America will be a better place when everyone has health insurance.
Does anybody know how awful it is to be turned away from a hospital or medical care, because you don’t have the money to pay for care??? France does have a GOOD
public insurance, so does Canada and England (we know relatives and friend who live there and we have been there. Some of the lies about their systems are rediculus. Nothing is perfect.
However, America has nothing. Emergency
rooms are not good for broken bones,
heart attacks- and other horrible things- FOR GOD’S SAKE, WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
Am
wh

To TParty4USA… I don’t want to be seen as “meddling” in your country’s business. I only posted to right the wrong comments about Canadian health care… but reading your post I can’t help but remark that you surely must know that such a huge overhaul of your system necessarily takes time… logistics, computerization, set-up, etc.
Our system was years in development. Since every other industrialized country does have an equivalent system, it would therefore be easier to implement.

TParty4USA | Oct 11, 2009 8:03:52 PM – aren’t you shocked that the health care/health insurance industry has paid out 380 000 000 dollars in the last months alone for lobbying, ads and campaign contributions to Dems and Reps alike in order to kill any meaningful health care reform? The Democrat Senate Committee Chairman Baucus alone got 1.5 million to tow the line and not carry out the will of we the People. 50 million dollars in contributions in total have flowed to the sitting members of that Committee during their careers from health care industry special interests. As patriotic Americans, who have up to now believed we live in a democracy, what should you and I do about this leveraged buyout of our government by corporations who are elected by nobody and truly not accountable to the citizens, who by a 58-34 margin, in spite of a massively funded disinformation campaign, want Medicare extended to all, not just those over 65? Help me out on this…

Manassas, Virginia – Just nine months into his presidency, Mr Obama has proved more of a hindrance than a help to the Democratic candidate, Creigh Deeds. Unlike Democrats across the country in 2008, the state senator is keeping a very loose grip on the president’s coat-tails.

Could it be that people from all walks of life smell a rat and have grown tired of one “crisis” after another? Of bills worth billions passed without being read and spent by God knows who? Of the deals being made in backrooms with Insurance and drug companies?
Our politicians are a mess, they are immature and act like spoiled brats.
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It could be the fear generated by those spoiled brats in the GOP, that drag up lies of Death Panels, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, sex clinics in schools, indoctrination, kill Gramma, etc.?
Couldn’t be the lies the GOP keeps telling about how they have a better plan, how if we are all mandated to buy private insurance that the cost will be less. Like competition in the electric market, like how our gas, and energy cost are dropping.
See when things become a necessity, when the market becomes so big, then the free market system fails, and the industry becomes so big, and there are so few compititors that they can out price any new commers so when they fail up goes the prices. That is where we are at today.

Pathetic republicans, even after they leave office,they are still afraid to let their words be used for a good purpose. Must be their phones ringing off the hook with threats and hate from other republicans. Wimps!
Today, October 11, 2009, 6 minutes ago | Veryvicki
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Actually, that would be ‘their phones ringing off the hook with threats and hate from the Republican leader, Rush Limbaugh”

I just spent a month in Greenland working with some Canadians and all agreed that they didn’t want the U.S. healthcare system to change because it was their only option for healthcare if they had an emergency and didn’t have time to wait months for rationed care in Canada.
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You expect us to believe your story?.

You expect us to believe your story?
=============================
We’re all surprised you don’t.

I just spent a month in Greenland working with some Canadians and all agreed that they didn’t want the U.S. healthcare system to change because it was their only option for healthcare if they had an emergency and didn’t have time to wait months for rationed care in Canada…
Today, October 11, 2009, 16 minutes ago | JPT
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I’m wondering if Barbara-Canadian or JJvence would mind replying to this ‘claim’?

All these politicians are self serving and dont care about you they only care about themselves! Why don’t you ask America Samoa how they feel about the special ammendemnt she put into legislation to prohibit them from getting the extra monies so her 17 million dollar investment with Starkist, who is also her major campaign contributor, has an advantage over their competitors. If that is the type of compassionate person you trust with your health care then keep on drinking. They all need to be voted out and start over with new people that are not corrupt. The person talking about the insurance lobbyists and republicans how come you did not mention that Baucus made a deal with the drug makers to the tune of 90 billion dollars. If you people cant see the corruption in Government then you deserve what you get. The Canadian person fails to tell you how much they pay for taxes and in England they pay 90% of their wages in taxes. So when everybody is making ten cents to every dollar you earn you will be the same ones complaining and whinning what happened!

Good for Bob Dole for lodging this protest and good for the White House for getting the ad pulled. Some of you are arguing that Dole’s words were not wrenched out of context or twisted, but I think Sen. Dole explaining his objections quite well here and it is clear that he considers what the DNC was trying to do misleading at best.
Bob Dole is an old-school Republican and I respect him a lot. But then, I am also a huge fan of George H.W. Bush, my favorite recent president. I may have been the only person in America who voted for Ronald Reagan because of the bottom of the ticket. I wish there were more politicians like them active in Washington today— on both sides of the aisle.

mshare, are you being silly or deliberately obtuse? Rush Limbaugh is a talking head on the conservative side, just like Keith Olbermann is a talking head on the liberal side. Neither is the leader of their respective party, nor does either pretend to be. Do you accuse every Democrat who says s/he won’t vote for a bill without a public option of just following Mr. Olbermann’s directives? Of course not.
Besides, while they are both Republicans, Sen. Dole and Rush Limbaugh are quite different in their opinions and attitudes on this issue. Limbaugh would never reach out to Dole and Dole would never listen to him if he did. But then, you knew that already, didn’t you?

Leave Bob Dole alone!!!
Leave Bob Dole alone I tell you!!!
Taken from the “Leave Britney Alone” video.

“I just spent a month in Greenland working with some Canadians and all agreed that they didn’t want the U.S. healthcare system to change because it was their only option for healthcare if they had an emergency and didn’t have time to wait months for rationed care in Canada.”
I have several Canadian friends and not one holds that opinion, including the one who went through a couple years of treatment for a brain tumor.
“These Canadians would be considered liberal by most standards, but opposed changing the U.S. healthcare system because they foresaw that the U.S. would soon outlaw its citizens from paying for care outside the gov’t run system — the very problem they deal with in Canada now.”
JPT | Oct 11, 2009 9:13:22 PM
You were “just” up there and yet your idiot friends had not heard of the 2005 Canadian Supreme Court ruling that resulted in the establishment of a private health care system?!?!? (As a sidenote, the plaintiff who brought that suit against Quebec was after a hip replacement – the sort of thing available with little wait in the US, where SOCIALIZED INSURANCE, aka Medicare, provides coverage for the vast majority of hip replacements).

-But how much does Big Pharma like to meet with him? -Since he’s meeting with them–and this is the new part–to negotiate ways to keep their prices DOWN, whereas when Republicans meet with big business it’s to find ways to keep their prices UP.-
That must be why the meeting was secret because the great surprise will be lower costs! And I’m sure Big Pharma rather enjoys the access.

“And I’m sure Big Pharma rather enjoys the access.”
They might consider themselves lucky that they went from being one of the industries that was running the White House to one the White house will still listen to.

I’m not surprised the DNC took words out of context to make their commercial. Lies seem to by standard MO.
Democrats have a super majority and total control of the federal government. They have the power to pass whatever bill they want to pass. They want bipartisanship so they can blame Republicans when the whole thing blows up in their faces.
As soon as they limit the public option to citizens of the United States, I’ll go for it. As long as they propose using taxes from Americans to take care of citizens of other countries I will be asking my congressman and senators to oppose it.

“Olbermann has never demanded and received apologies from multiple elected Democratic officals.”
Olbermann has a tiny audience and zero influence over public opinion.

“…in the US, where SOCIALIZED INSURANCE, aka Medicare, provides coverage for the vast majority of hip replacements.”
SOCIALIZED INSURANCE in the United States denies 6.8% of all claims, faces an unfunded liability of $33 Trillion, and is about to become insolvent.

“The Medicare denial rate found in the [AMA] study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined.”

I love it when children exult about the prospects for “taxes on the rich,”…
..In my own case, I am rich but am vitually exempt from income tax because the huge bulk of my holdings is in after-tax money. Tax away, suckers. You can’t lay a glove on me, but you can certainly keep unemployment at European levels forever.
This is a marvelous time to be rich and fully retired; it’s a great vantage point from which to watch this suicidal circus.
Today, October 11, 2009, 7 minutes ago | Fascist Hyena
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Well, were just going to have to close those loopholes.
Maybe we can pass a general ‘clawback’ tax for people like you.

“The Medicare denial rate found in the [AMA] study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined.”
Today, October 11, 2009, 13 minutes ago | Fascist Hyena
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Again…nothing that a tax increase on the rich (and a ‘clawback’ from people like you) couldn’t fix!

the rich simply do not have nearly enough money to pay for this extravaganza no matter at what rate you tax them.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena
don’t know about that, seems there’s enough of the rich corporate folks getting 20 to 30 million dollar bonus, super retirement packages etc.and most corps don’t pay any taxes anyways……let alone all the folks who use foreign banks to hide their money..
time to make em’ pay up

The scare tactics continue day by day ,but we will not be able to afford insurance in the near future unless something is done soon! I’m retired and recently needed a pacemaker put in and I have good federal Blue-Cross Blue Shield insurance and my cost was still over $4,000.This is projected to double within the next 5 years! I can’t imagine what others are currently paying for insurance and can’t understand how they can possible afford their cost to double in the next 5 years. There’s a old saying that “There ought to a Law” and thats what this bill is all about!!I would like to here from others here what they currently pay for health insurance and could they afford a doubling in cost every 5 years because that is the path we are currently on without reform!!

I recently got two x-rays made at one of our local hospitals. A front and lateral view, simple enough. Amount charged to my insurance: $204 for the x-rays and an additional $204 for someone to look at them. Total: $408. This does not include the $170 doctor visit required to get the referral for the x-rays. Now the total grows to $578 and I have’nt been “treated” yet. Four days later I visited a Chiropractor. My insurance does’nt that. Cash price: $30 for the identical x-rays which included someone reading them and $25 for treatment. We have a failed system folks. And now we want to build a new program on top of what we already have.
We need a new system…..no doubt about it! Here is the big but – we cannot build a new program on top of a corrupt system. If we are already paying twice as much as everyone else in this country, I cannot accept the idea paying more will fix the problem.

We need reform now! We need to hit the “reset” button on Pharma and Health Insurance companies for a start. That must be done before any new program can be considered. First you throw out any and all “arrangements”, handshakes and back-slaps and get down to business. Why do I have a retail price of $122 on my Diovan HCT (blood pressure medicine) for a one month supply when I can get it from Canada, postage paid, for $29.95? Same manufacturer, right here in the USA.

This problem goes far beyond political parties. It is all “smoke and mirrors” when it comes to congress making any true reform. Keep your eye on the ball people. I started using an “inhaler” three months ago. Now I’m constantly reminded by my pharmacy, by mail, to refill it. They add at the bottom of the letter: we are being compensated by the manufacturer. Guess what – we pay that compensation! Our representatives won’t make the decisions that need to be made.

OMG!
Obama lied about Dole and twisted his words?
I am shocked, I tell you.

I’m not sure what we’ll end up with when it comes to health care reform. Unless the present system is totally dumped, it’ll be more of the same. As a nation, we already pay twice as much as everyone on earth and still have millions of people with nothing. Someone suggested a different path the other day. We should vote on lobbyist rather then congressional candidates. That way we could save on the cost of the middle-man. Somehow that is starting to make sense. This is really sad.

drjohn: I’ll pay my own way. I don’t need anyone’s help. When I start navigating my way through the present system, I find something out. Our system is totally corrupt. A lot of people are left out with no place to go. We cannot have true reform without getting rid of old practices.

America! A country that will deny the many in an effort to prevent a few from taking advantage of a system. meanwhile, middle class Americans are getting diseases and sicknesses that are destroying their retirement. But none of it matters to those yet affected by a medical emergency. So, in the typical American way, if it doesn’t effect my “right here – right now” I don’t want it. BUT when that American does finally get cancer from their eating habits, smoking habits, poor exercise habits, or other form of laziness, they’ll be BEGGING for some help. Who ya gonna call then? All Americans better hope this healthcare reform passes that covers all of us. Health Insurance Companies are killing us slowly and driving up the cost of medical services for those who have minimum or no coverage.

Republican lies: He was’nt voted in. He has been retired for a long time. Gee?
What were you thinking?

Central banks flush with record reserves are increasingly snubbing dollars in favor of euros and yen, further pressuring the greenback after its biggest two- quarter rout in almost two decades.

America! A country that will deny the many in an effort to prevent a few from taking advantage of a system. meanwhile, middle class Americans are getting diseases and sicknesses that are destroying their retirement. But none of it matters to those yet affected by a medical emergency… Health Insurance Companies are … driving up the cost of medical services for those who have minimum or no coverage.
Posted by: Legal Beagle | Oct 12, 2009 10:20:26 AM
Nice post. What a big surprise that the insurance industry would come out with a hatchet job today that overlooks key elements of the bill. I do agree with the report that a weak individual mandate is problematic, but there are many odd assumptions made in the report. Frankly, I hope Pelosi sent the single payer bill to the CBO, too,along with the various versions of the public option. If we need a strong mandate, let’s put one in alongside a robust public option. If the insurance companies can’t compete, good riddance. Let’s leave single payer on the table by getting it scored. I’m so sick of the distract and divide tactics. We need not-for-profit alternatives to the same old malarkey. No reform is not a viable, or wise, option.

“But serfs will always believe that if only the government takes over, everything will be just fine.”
Serfs? What do you think that makes you? Some kind of Baron? -Keep dreaming. Yeah Medicare may deny 6.8% of claims compared to private insurers–the ones which will sell you coverage at all. The problem is private insurers deny coverage to so many people. In that case the denial rate on claims would be practically 100%. If the health insurance industry based on profit alone will not protect our citizens to our satisfaction we have every right to create a government program to do so.

“What do you think that makes you? Some kind of Baron?”
No. It makes me a self-respecting free man.

Nothing surprizes me on what comes from either political party. We know the lobbists are in it for money. And the Media loves everything Obama, so the real truth will never be known. The outcome will end up that the Middle Class Citizens have to pay for it. Even if it stinks to high heaven. Get your close-pins ready.

Incidentally, there’s a story at TPM about how a Republican aide is telling Republicans to make sure they check how much money they received from health insurance lobbyists before they use to the new AHIP report to oppose the reform bills. Hmmm… sounds like prudent advice since it’s fairly obvious the insurance industry lobby is an important sugar daddy on the Hill.

“As with all industries, health insurance companies must provide a product that consumers like at a price they are willing to pay, or they do not survive.”
That is only true in the case of the healthy. It is not profitable to insure the sick, or pre-existing conditions. Trying to claim evil or not that the insurance companies do not engage in dropping contracts to save money takes some audacity at this late stage of the debate. Instead deflecting the main issue by arguing about the morality of profits suggest a real alternative besides Blue Cross. If profit motive alone will not protect all of our citizens–because it’s not profitable–the government may be instructed to do so or we can force the health insurance companies to do so relegating their role to that of public utilities.

“…the insurance companies do not engage in dropping contracts to save money takes some audacity at this late stage of the debate…”
It’s unlawful to do so in California, and if not unlawful in other states it could readily be made so.

Democrats have an un-filibusterable majority in the Senate, a clear majority in the House, and a sitting President. Why do they keep blaming Republicans for no health care bill ?

‘”I really don’t think it’s worth the paper it’s written on,” AARP Executive Vice President John Rother told reporters Monday. “If anyone believes it, that’s a problem.”‘
AARP .. neutral through disbelief

“The ultimate goal of the statists is to ensure that no one can get any better coverage than anyone else, no matter how diligently he strives to support himself and his family.”
I haven’t heard even the proponents of single-payer advocate trying to eliminate private insurance altogether though opponents claim that would be the end result of course. Thus those who strive diligently would be able to purchase supplemental insurance, deflating this caste conspiracy theory.

“I haven’t heard even the proponents of single-payer advocate trying to eliminate private insurance altogether though opponents claim that would be the end result of course. Thus those who strive diligently would be able to purchase supplemental insurance, deflating this caste conspiracy theory.”
I’ll tell you who won’t be able to get the sort of coverage they want…..Me! I eat right, excercise regularly and go to the doctor pretty much once a year for a check up. I like high deductible insurance because it’s cheap. It provides protection against major medical coverage and discourages me from running off to the doctor asking for antibiotics for a cold or allergy. That’s the exact sort of insurance everybody should have, but the Democrat’s plans will make it illegal. At least HR 3200 would have insured that high deductible plans would inevitably be phased out. And I suspect anything else the Dems produce will do so as well because they need to drag me kicking and screaming into an expensive plan so I can subsidize the uninsured with my premiums as well as my taxes.

“At some point in time you are going to have to be honest with your constituents that universal health care is going to cost them money. A lot of money and it will cost them for their entire lives.”
I don’t intend to get into the which will cost more debate however it should at least be noted that it’s going to cost their constituents a lot of money for the rest of their lives if nothing at all is done too.

If the Democrats are serious about creating a fair universal health care system, the mandate has to be coupled with severe penalties for noncompliance. The Baucus plan as it was first sold contained penalties severe enough to incentivize slackers to obtain coverage. So, it was an honest plan in that respect. But those penalties were watered down to the point that they were about as big a joke as this year’s Nobel Peace Prize. Price Waterhouse is absolutely right to call Baucus on this.
***
I agree about the mandate– it did get watered down and it’s the one good point that comes from the report the insurance lobby paid for– although as you all know I say if there’s a mandate there must then there ought to be a robust public option tied to Medicare rates on the national exchange, and we (Dems and others who are reform-oriented) might as well go for it since neither the vast majority of elected officials in the GOP nor AHIP seems very serious about health care reform.
I also agree with Skip’s take on single payor advocates and supplemental insurance– in fact, under the Swiss plan the money is made on the supplemental insurance market, I believe, Fascist. I do tend to say, hey, if the private sector can’t compete, good riddance, but that’s because I think it’s a canard. It IS a canard. C’mon. They can innovate and evolve. They just don’t want to. Might cut into some bonuses, or lobbying dollars.

Why should anyone believe what is coming out of this administration? The President’s recent doctor photo-op serves as another example of the administration’s efforts to show demonstrable support for health care, excuse me, insurance reform. Are we to believe that 100%, or that even a majority, of doctors support reform as proposed/debated in the current legislature? No. Contrived photo-ops on both sides of the aisle deceive more often than they do not.
For example, approximately just 18% of doctors belong to the American Medical Association. Eighteen percent of doctors are hardly a majority, yet the administration regularly cites the AMA’s broad based reform support intimating that all doctors support reform, which is simply not true.
Applying similar logic/tactics to the economy; Are we to believe that the recession is over? That the Stimulus Package has saved/created any jobs? That government ownership of private business is good? That the deceptively named Freedom of Choice Act (i.e. card check) will be good for business and the economy? That the administration will not raise taxes on those earning less than $250K annually (or some other figure depending on what day it may be)?
Those who read these threads are much more engaged intellectually in the process than most. Now, more than ever, it’s critical that you remain engaged and lobby support for your beliefs by encouraging others to take a much more active role in this process. Remember that the electorate placed these current politicians in office and that the electorate could do it again. The United States cannot allow that to occur. Get involved.

Skip, while you may not want to get into a discussion of which will cost more, the problem your party is facing, and the reason Baucus watered down the mandate to begin with, is that many of the uninsured you’re always wailing about are healthy young adults who are voluntarily uninsured because their iphones and cable tv subscriptions are higher priorities than health insurance. Many of them voted for Obama in the mistaken belief that he was going to tax somebody else to provide them with free or low cost insurance, and that’s not what’s going to happen. He now risks losing not only the elderly, but also the young healthy adults who comprise a large percentage of the uninsured. Quite a dilemma.

We just need public health care, period; forget about insurance reform. Let the well-to-do deal with the worsening insurance if they want to seek private doctors.

These corporate, profits over health, insurance companies show how much fear they have created by seeing how many of you have taken up their call. These threats to raise costs is just blackmail. There is no hiding that fact. It is amazing how so many Republicans have fallen into this trap of protecting that which is draining this countries success dry all in the name of higher profits. Small businesses can no longer afford to get started because they cannot afford to pay the already super-high premiums and out-of-pocket costs. Many small and large businesses that have insurance coverage are dropping or minimizing the coverage of their employees just to stay in business or to remain competitive. Why are so many Republicans who have historically been all about protecting business and creating opportunity for new business not seeing this. Why are Republicans so blinded by how many jobs are lost to overseas interests because we cannot compete against their lower costs of ownership as they do not pay the exorbitant health-coverage costs that we are “blackmailed” with. This whole private industry, insurance and pharmaceuticals mostly, are destroying this country from the inside out. The Governments public option ‘IS THE ONLY” option to take away the draconian throttlehold of our countries economy and our personal health. These private corporations have more to say about our rights to quality health-care and our rights to live or die than any possible government plans. All for the sake of a greater profit. Do not be fooled by these scoundrels who have lost their compassion and their balance with what is humanely right for our citizens health and what is economically correct for our nations needs. These private, profit-based corporations have become “very unpatriotic and very inhumane.” THEIR PROFITS ARE TRUMPING HUMANS”. The average single American is not important enough in these corporations books. I vote for a very strong government run public option.

Bridget | Oct 12, 2009 1:47:41 PM— You posted: “It keeps costs under control for the rest of us folks who consciencously maintain our coverage.” —– Bridget, wow, think about what you just posted here. So you truly believe that there everybody can “consciously” afford to pay the exorbitant insurance coverage that these profit based corporations force upon us? And when we are self-employed or between jobs or have a small business, you think that it is easy to pay the extremely high premiums and out of pocket costs. Americans can little afford these high costs and be able to start and stay in business. Do you even know what a “pre-condition” is? Do you know anyone who has lost a job and had to try to pay the super high costs of COBRA or tried to get coverage from other insurance companies for a pre-condition. Have you ever met or known of a person who has had their insurance dropped because of any number of excuses that can be dreamed up to save the profits of an insurance company. Do you know an insured person or family that out-of-pocket costs, in one year is a major portion of their income for that year? And all of this SO YOU CAN CONCIENCOUSLY MAINTAIN YOUR COVERAGE. I hope you can explain this attitude to our maker when that time comes. Please explain to me, Bridget, would this attitude of yours the same as Jesus if he had a choice about his fellow brothers and sisters? Are we your fellow-brothers and sisters? The un-insured, the pre-conditioned sister, the un-employed, those born with defects, those children of families that are too poor, the suddenly uninsured due to whatever excuse? I Love you, but do you love us? I wonder?

SHEEPLE

An Obama internet community organizer paid by the word.
Posted by: Obamatopia | Oct 12, 2009 3:46:00 PM
LOL. I keep getting this from the same handful of folks, likely the same person under different monikers (gotta change monikers often to make it look like there’s more of you than there are who think like you, yes? I don’t do that but I’ve noticed many who do.) Glad my posts are so annoying to the opposition that some think I actually get paid for them.
***
Obamatopia, a Republican mouthpiece paid by the word.
Posted by: knowerseeker | Oct 12, 2009 4:57:11 PM
I think you’re right!! Projection much?

Many of you know very well that all other industrialized countries in the world DO provide universal health coverage. So, why cannot America do the same? Second, what child or grandparent or any person are you going to deny coverage to? I will tell you what, let us put you in charge to make that decision. You decide if a child is going to live or die or be sick for the rest of their lives because you denied them the need. You can be choose to be GOD with their health or the life. Put yourself in the place of decision and ask yourself, are you able to decide another human being’s fait. I ask you now, if you are a Christian, how would Jesus choose in this need for our society and how would Jesus choose for each person’s needs for proper health care or life and death. So, I ask again, what would you do?

I don’t understand the hatred directed towards “private profit based” business. I own a business and unless we make a profit I cannot stay in business. I suspect that most of you also work for a company that has the same requirement. Making a profit allows a company to continue to exist, to continue to employee people, to provide benefits like insurance, to invest in making the company solid and sustainable, to invest in our communities, to support local charities, to sponsor youth sports teams, to pay taxes that fund our parks, libraries, and creative arts.
In our quest for responsible healthcare reform, let’s not demonize the many good, quality businesses and business owners that take the risks everyday in order to gain a reward (profit) so that we can help make our world a better place.

Initially they said the ad was misleading because it claimed Dole supported the dems proposal. Considering Dole said he does not support any of the dem proposals I would say the ad was a lie.

Posted by: dlboggan | Oct 12, 2009 “You appear to be a very young, healthy human being who has no insight to what life can do to change your life in a moment.”
ROTFLMAO. You should be more careful about the assumptions you make.
Posted by: dlboggan | Oct 12, 2009 “You visit your doctor once a year but there may be a time that once a year may not be enough. It may require hugely expensive multiple visits with a life time of treatments of one sort our another. Physical disability, or disease. You name it, it can happen to you too. “
Yes indeed, which is why I maintain low cost catastrophic coverage, the same sort I would support as part of a public option or a government mandate.
Posted by: dlboggan | Oct 12, 2009 “Be compassionate. I promise you it won’t hurt you as bad as you might think.”
No doubt it doesn’t hurt you at all to be compassionate with other people’s money.
Posted by: dlboggan | Oct 12, 2009 “You posted: “It keeps costs under control for the rest of us folks who consciencously maintain our coverage.” —– Bridget, wow, think about what you just posted here. So you truly believe that there everybody can “consciously” afford to pay the exorbitant insurance coverage that these profit based corporations force upon us?”
Do you have any idea what the cost of the basic benefit mandated by the government is going to be? Try $5000 for individuals and $10,000 for families. And that’s just to start. The Democrats aren’t even pretending anymore that their plans will do a thing to control the high cost of health care. In fact, by adding tens of millions of new people to the same system with the same number of doctors, nurses, labs, and hospitals will increase demand thereby increasing costs or decreasing service. Obama may walk on water but he can’t repeal the law of supply and demand.