BREAKING: Catholic Bishops On Health Care – Change Bills Or Else

Abortion is a legal and sometimes very necessary medical procedure in the United States and in almost every civilized country on Earth. The Catholic Church should have no say whatsoever on any healthcare policy. Interesting that those on the right say that the government should stay out of healthcare, unless of course, it’s a women’s issue. The Catholic Church is one of the most sexist institutions that exist. There’s reason so many Catholics have left the church. The above story is one of them.

Forcing people to pay for abortion will cause such an uproar that it will lead to an open political revolt…..How long to we have to be governed by idiots?

} might also add covering illegals,mandating insurance and exploding the deficit will have the same effect….

In the name of the father, the son, and the right wing…

Are those bishops for or against the health care required to heal the boys who have been molested and sodomized by the RC clergy?

How can you call yourself an unbiased journalist when you use language like “they insist that the Hyde amendment doesn’t apply to the bills”?
They INSIST? really?
YOU should insist, George. They speak the truth. Get educated. The Hyde amendment does not apply to the health care reform bills.

This bill has become totally contaminated. On one hand, they don’t want anyone coming between the doctor and patient. On the other hand, they want issues such as abortion, racism, immigration, campaign contribution, corrupted politicians, etc. etc. to be handled in this bill.
Let’s adhere to real health reform issues and forget Fox and faux friends (clowns).

So the Catholic Church wants to be a political organization? Fine. Take away their tax-exempt status.

Deb is wrong. Not all abortions are “medically necessarily”! In fact, out of all abortions performed in the United States, only ONE PERCENT (1%) is medically necessarily to have abortion just to save the lives of mothers. All other reasons are nothing but stupid and selfish on our parts. We were being deceived ourselves to prevent births because it will cramp our lifestyle, or we can’t afford it, or because they are too much trouble for us, or we were too young, making prom night mistakes, etc. etc. Let get ride of innocent babies to save some bucks and instead spend on hardwood flooring, new car, or God forbids that you only want the pleasures – not accept the consequent. We tell ourselves this lie! Heaven forbid we should lay this justification (including so-called medical neccessarily as an excuse to cover up your mistakes) at the feet of God. I will promise you this!

Erik…as much as you’re entitled to your opinion about the ills of abortion, you’d do well to remember that your life will NEVER be in jeopardy from pregnancy or the secondary effects of it. I suggest you back on down from the pulpit of self-rightiousness, you’ll NEVER know what it’s like to be raped and impregnated or at risk of death if you carry a fetus to term. Who are you to judge or lecture? Your opinion is tainted by your arrogant tone.

So it’s o.k. to try to keep affordable insurance from those hurting, to continue to deny pre-existing, because of this one issue? How is one ANY different from the other? Is helping the sick not a moral obligation? How is this any different from me having to pay for a war I never approved of?

the churches responsibility it is to populate the land…,…,… then MAKE SURE NO CHILD IS LEFT BEHIND, E.T. phone home ,gods calling come home lost boy. statistical norms of devine inteligence [not just intelligent design but RESPONSIBILITY to “find&send” the present extra-link / snag! of bifurcating ignorance, find the prime case and send! them early to whence they truely belong and long to go. unleasch my heart! and the corinthians shall march man.destinies excess faith,

It makes me laugh when people claim that voters Congress and Obama were given a mandate to pass Obamacare when they voted for “change”. Obama never described the “change” he was going to bring other than to say that all bills would be posted on the net for people to read before any vote was taken. Not only did that not happen the Dems voted against it. Obama said that people making under $250,000 per year would not see a dime extra in taxes, then the bill charges fines and fees,BUT he didn’t raise the taxes. When are we going to start seeing the changes he did actually put into words?

The health care bill in the House of Represenatives makes it perfectly clear that no fund are to be used for abortions. Nothing in the bill forces any one to have an abortion. Perhaps before deciding to oppose health care reform, the bishops should take the trouble to ACTUALLY READ the bill.
According to a recent study by the Harvard Medical School, 44,000 people a year die because of inadequate medical care.
Our infant mortality rate is twice as high as the infant mortality rates of Sweden or France, according to the 2009 CIA fact book. But then how much power does the Catholic Church have in Sweden or France? Isn’t ironic that babies have a better chance of survival in countries where only a handful of peopl ever set foot inside a Catholic Church? The Catholic Church claims that they are pro-life. Their current stance causes me to wonder if they are really pro-death?

knowerseeker says he agrees with the Chruch but that illegal immigrants should be promptly jailed and deported after receiving treatment. Yeah – give am a heart transplant and then send them back to Mexico in a taxi. That will surely lower the cost of health care.

The bills don’t pay for abortion. Someone needs to explain to the bishops that abortions will NOT be covered with tax payers money.

Well, fortunately for the clergy in question, none of them will ever have to make the heart-wrenching decision to have an abortion. Many years ago I had an abortion because I was not able to raise a child. Furthermore, I saw how depressing it could be for a woman to give up a child for adoption under those circumstances. I made the choice to have an abortion in the first trimester after much deliberation and soul searching. I will always be sad that I got pregnant when I wasn’t ready to be a parent but I’ll always be grateful that I had a choice and wasn’t forced to bear a child because of others’ beliefs. It’s amazing how heated men become on an issue that will never affect their own bodies or futures. Peace.

I don’t want my money paying for somebody to murder their baby. just because they were irresponsible and had sex and got pregnant. If your not ready for a baby don’t have sex.

HOGWASH!

If someone elects to kill their baby, they should pay for the procedure. I should not be obligated to pay for elective procedures that aren’t necessary.

“How long to we have to be governed by idiots?” I asked that very question when Bush was president.

Mr. Simon, I am a Catholic, do not agree with abortion but this health care plan is bigger than any one issue and I agree with your stance 100%. That being said, the Catholic Church has the right to their opinion but I do not believe that they wield the power of influence that they once did and there are many Catholics like myself who believe in compromising for the greater good.

Catholics are free to do what their conscience dictates but I’m a little tired of having them dictate to the rest of us. We aren’t all Catholic and this is a democracy. Go live in Rome if Vatican City if you think everyone has to listen to the Pope.

But President Obama is not a liar! He stood up in front of Congress and the American people and said abortion would not be covered, we would not be forced to pay for such an atrocity. Apparently he was lying as many of the liberals posting here seem to know that it is covered.

Most Catholics I know (including me) would feel that if the mother’s life is in danger or if someone’s been raped, that an abortion is appropriate.
It would be a shame, in those cases, to deny funding to someone who otherwise couldn’t afford it.

Or else…the Catholic hospitals will be closed? Abortion no way…no how in their own facilities…think of all those hospitals will close their doors.

I will say it again; abortion is a legal medical procedure in the United States. As someone said above, if you don’t believe in it, then don’t have one. But I don’t think three supposedly celibate old men should impose their beliefs on others or the lawmakers of this country. We already have plenty of right-wing Christians for that.

They need to leave Medicare along. Do not take money from medicare.

I AM NOT PAYING TO KILL BABIES! I, FOR ONE, HAVE TO FACE GOD SOME DAY. These little souls are the most hlepless of all and their hearts are beating at 3 days old. Only MONSTERS, from hell would not care about this.

You are missing the point here. The Catholic Church is not being political nor is this an issue of the so-called separation of church and state. The Catholic Church has a strong presence in the health care arena with many Catholic hospitals providing invaluable support to communities throughout the U.S. If forced to provide abortion services, the Church would have no choice but to close its hospitals. That would have an enormouse and detrimental affect on the availability of services.

I’m Catholic and don’t give a hoot what these three right wing bishops think or say — nor do most Catholics. Why would George even report on them?

Linda gets it. Also we are letting the same crew who destroyed Chicago, destroy the country.

Most Catholic Bishops supported Obama. They forfeited their chance to oppose his programs.

Hi Deb. Can you explain what disease abortion cures? Can you explain how a woman’s health is improved by turning her womb into a blender? My point being that abortion is not healthcare. Don’t make me pay for the irresponsibility of others.

Kudos to the Catholic Bishops!
I am a right to life RC and I DO NOT wish my tax dollars to pay for anyone else’s abortion.

Catholics truly believe that abortion results in the death of an innocent. It is easy to criticize Catholics and still politically correct to do so. I run a small business and I have never questioned my tax burden. If the Feds require me to fund an act which is totally offensive to my conscience, I too will become a Conscientious Objector with regards to Taxation. Millions of people are poised to join in.

The bishops’ letter is concise, reasonable and reflects the convictions of millions of US Americas. Congress would do well to respond.

Abortion 9 times out of 10 is an elected procedure. I view abortion as murder. Just as when there are time that killing a human is correct..i.e when you life is threaten so goes my belief about abortion. If a mothers life is in danger, than I see the need. However if it is not a medical neccessity … I see no need for anyone to pay for this inhumane practice. And I applaud the Catholic Church for taking a strong stand on it.

I applaud the Catholic Bishops’ stand. If I were looking for a religious group to join, I would certainly consider such a courageous group. As leaders of the Catholic Church they have every right to represent and interpret Church teaching, especially in such important matters.

Blah Blah Blah…..why wont the church pay for health care, they have untold buckets of cash

The position of the Church as it is to health care is irrelevent, the church is seperate from government and should stay just that. As to their oppisition to abortion they can direct their followers as they so want but have no right to construct public policy, and any government leader who even considers his or her religion in the course of government policy is in violation of the Consitution of The United States. I am tired of religion even being brought into policy, if it makes a person happy going to church fine but do not force me or anyone else to live under standards created by mythalogical thoughts or stories.

So if awoman is raped (as I was) and becomes pregnant, why do you want to murder the innocent child? It was not the childs fault. The rapist should be punished.

Newsflash for Catholic Bishops: This is not the Vatican. Americans don’t get to pick & choose where our tax dollars go. If we did, none of mine would’ve gone to the Iraq war or abstinence only counseling. Abortion is a legal, elective medical procedure. I don’t get to tell them how to protect pedophiles and they don’t get to impose their theological views on my medical system.

1. The reason people leave the Catholic Church is not because they are too rigid on moral issues. It is because they are not rigid enough. They condemn abortion, but refuse to excommunicate those who actively support and promote it and are unrepentant in doing so. NO ONE RESPECTS A PUSH-OVER. Notice that while the Catholic Church dwindles, the fundamentalist churches who are outspoken are growing.
2. Most right-wingers aren’t in favor of having government take over and be responsible for ANY healthcare for people who can already afford it on their own. So, it is stupid to argue that they are singling out abortion.
3. It is a sad state of affairs that we live in, when the destruction of a fetus is seen by so many as the height of womanhood, empowerment of women, and feminism. You don’t even have to be a religious person to look at a sonogram and see that there is life there. It is the ability to HAVE children, not the ability to DESTROY children, which truly empowers us as women.

The vitriol of the left is always so disgusting. Would you say such bigoted things about any other minority in this country? Your anti-Catholic hatred is staggering, as is your failure to understand your own hatefulness. FYI everyone in this country is allowed freedom of speech, even Christians, even Christians of the sect you hate so much: Catholics. Hurray for Jesus and screw the liberals how think they see God when they look in the mirror.

The Bishops can demand thier way to hell for all I care. They aren’t elected representatives last time I checked. I respect and encourage thier involvement but “demanding” is not the way to get that accomplished. They need to get and listen to media advisors when inserting themselves into such issues.

JUST WONDERING WHAT OLD REV JEREMIAH WOULD SAY[IF HE COULD]

I am not Anti-Catholic. I am Pro-America. I made a concious determination to live my life here as a citizen and the fact it is a secular government figured in my choice. The Catholic Bishops are free to speak their mind and advocate for their beliefs. They are not free to impose theological definitions on the science of medicine.

COlette Duranleau
I don’t think the bishops made a demand. Have you seen their actual statement? Just because the headline writer used that word doesn’t mean the bishops did. I don’t think George “Steffie” Stephanapoulos even used it, but that doesn’t matter.
I think the bishops’ statement said: Do this and we can’t support your legislation. Which is a way of saying, “we’ll have to oppose it.” Maybe they even said, “we’ll oppose it.”
I think they implied that the Pelosi-goons might want to think twice before loading the odds agaist themselves so thoroughly.
And the bishops didn’t have to say that if the Pelosi-thugs go ahead and ram it through, the Catholic hospital system will shut down. The bishops may have been foolish to think that the Pelosi-fools are smart enough to read between the lines.
But “demand” is the one thing they did not do. They stated facts.

To VivaIlPapa: Almost every civilized country on earth permits abortion with many having no restrictions at all. I suggest you look it up, if you believe that it’s not true.

Stuff it Catholics. If your church is going to support taking away my freedom of choice in regard to health care in general or forcing me to pay for other peoples’ health care, pro-abortion provisions need to stay in this bill in order to “sour the milk” so that your religious cult won’t support government health care takeover.

The fact is that the Catholic Church used to consider viability to begin at “quickening” – when the woman felt movement in the womb – NOT at “conception.”
Which makes a WHOLE lot more sense than claiming that killing a zygote is “murder.”

Some facts may help the issue.
69.1 million Catholics (23% of the U.S. population)
573 Catholic hospitals treated 84.7 million patients in 2005 or 15% of all US patience. They employ 600,000 full time people.
The Catholic Church is big really big in Health Care. And what the bishops who are typically in charge of these hospital say is very very important. Consider the following fact the bishops will close down Catholic hospitals if they are forced by the Obamacare to do abortions. Patience Catholic and non will be hurt by having less or in some area NO HOSPITALS. I think Congress should think long and hard about trying to slap the bishops into submission. This is dumb policy that come next election there will be real CHANGE.

This is an interesting discussion, and it seems that MANY people are missing the point. While the Catholic Church is not as sophisticated and “tolerant” as the majority of the commenters here, the Catholic Church is a HUGE health care provider–particularly for the poor.
The narrow, intolerant (did I forget Homophobic, anti-women and mean?) Church–unlike all the smart guys here–is a PLAYER in the health care field and it will absolutely close the doors of its hospitals rather than participate in abortions (and probably birth control).
this is going to be a massive fight between the Dems and the Catholic Church, and I I will bet that the Church will win. What is the government going to do when the hospitals close, confiscate them? That will look good.

Phil O’Loghy
-an overwhelming supermajority of anti-abortion is from the religious/supersttitious
-It is a group of cells, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
-”Potential” is loose. It is by definition lacking substance. Potential human beings, frankly, are lost every second down drains, etc.
-The reasoning so far is that a “potential” human, a group of cells, is not a human being.
-It is as superstitious as believing muhammed asceneded to heaven, as krishnu is the correct god, etc. etc. etc.

Funny that the left doesn’t want any intrusion over the human body when it comes to abortion, but when it mandates socialized health care which is an intrusion over the human body that’s ok.

Pastafarian,
I can bluster and call names too. Calling people superstitious doesn’t make them superstitious. Indeed, since you now are doing nothing but name-calling and blustering (“no evidence” about other than “clumps of cells”–open any basic embryology textbook and you’ll find your da*n evidenc), I’d say you are the superstitious one.
You never engaged my argument: that the arguments by those who oppose abortion are straight up medical and rational justice issues. Either it’s an innocent human life or it’s not.
But it’s easier to call people names like “superstitious.” Do you even know what that word means? Or do you just call everyone who disagrees with you “superstitious”? Sounds kinda superstitious to me.

It would be great to see the bishops excommunicate Pelosi, Biden, Boxer, Kerry, etc. if any of them vote for a health care bill that includes funding for abortion. It is too late for Ted.
That is THE “or else”.

“BREAKING: Catholic Bishops On Health Care – Change Bills Or Else”
BREAKING: Catholic Bishops On Hypocrisy, molestation, and clouding government with religion- Stop Or Else
Since when did it become House, Senate and Catholic Church? Give me a break and keep your Bible thumping to those that want to hear it in your church and stop bringing it to an already at times dysfunctional and corrupt political system. We don’t need church politics, corruption and influence muddying the waters.
Amen.

Igntz, close but no cigar. Even when (for lack of knowledge of fetal development), viability or ensoulment was understood to begin at quickning, guess what?
THE CHURCH STILL SAID ABORTION WAS WRONG, even before quickening.
See, women were not stupid. Long before quickening they knew from missed periods that they probably were pregnant. The Church said that trying to kill the baby through potions or other means before quickening was
WRONG.
All that has happened since is that we know a lot more about fetal development.
And we know about DNA.
And we know that a unique human individual exists as a zygote. And that s/he’s not guilty of a capital crime.
Gosh darn, why I bet Ignatz himself was once a zygote. In fact, I’m pretty sure he was.

Since when did being in a difficult position vis a vis pregnancy entitle one to do violence to another member of our species? Explain how claiming the right to violence to one’s child is freedom? Why do the Catholic Bishops not have the same right to speak to this issue as any other civic or religious group? The Church especially because of its involvement in running health care facilities most certainly has a stake in the game. The latent bigotry against the Catholic Church is breathtaking. (Of course, the ad hominems continue to flow…)

George, You stuttered quite frequently during the Hannity interview about Jennings. Not feeling sincere? I think you’re an ABC talking head, George …. No MAN would want his own young sons to spend time with this child predator.
What’s he doing in the Obama administration, George? Show some sincerity.
Laurens

1) There is no such thing as separation of Church and state. You’ll never find it in the Constitution.
2) The bishops have every right to stand up for what is right. They are citizens too.
3) Pro-abortionists are afraid of babies. It’s as simple and maddening as that. They are afraid of little babies.
4) Demoncrats have no mandate. Nearly half the country voted against them. In the next election, more than half will vote against them. We’ve seen their true colors of greed, bigotry, and hatred for America.

Quick, somebody tell the Bishop’s that with healthcare comes the ability to better afford birth control. Oh, that’s right. They don’t support that either. Dang men.

Actually Mike, Separation of Church and State does not keep the Church out of the State but the State out of the Church. Also, Separation of Church and State is NOT in the American Constitution; it’s part of a LETTER that Jefferson wrote to a friend.
People like you try to mis-write history to your own agenda. I fully support my Church on this one, Abortion should not be publicly funded.

Not interested in RCC opinion. They need to finds wives and get a real job, like the bible suggests. We as Americans don’t account the rulership of the Pope as worth considering, they aren’t even subject to the U.S. constitution, they are considered ambassadors. And they don’t believe in freedom of thought and they don’t pay taxes.
Thank You very much, but now read your bible

“Since when did being in a difficult position vis a vis pregnancy entitle one to do violence to another member of our species?”…………. Spoken by a MAN that has no dogs in the fight. Frankly I think men need to stay the heck out of this one. Or how bout they go collect the billions owed in back child support in this country before they force their stuff on us.

Thou shalt not kill
this goes from time of conception to time of nature death .. PERIOD no grey matter.
you don’t like it take it up with the Him upstairs

Does “Thou Shalt Not Kill” cover war? Because killing is killing. A sin is a sin.

Let me inform you that this country is not made of Christian only. Those who want to apply the Christianity rule should go live in the Vatican.

Abortion is almost never “necessary” except for women who don’t find their pregnancy convenient. It’s legal, but that doesn’t mean my tax dollars need to go to fund abortions.

Trust me folks, illegal aliens will be afforded health care under government health care bill. The only difference is that you will have to pay for it and they will NOT.
After the Obama health plan is activated, think how great things were while you wait for countless hours at your doctors office behind 40 illegal aliens, their wives, their children, grandchildren, cousins, aunt and uncles.

To the people who view this as a “womens issue”. First it takes a male and a female contribution to make a fetus. So it is not a “womens issue”. Second I am not a member of the church but I suspect that they, like many others view abortion as murder. I am not saying I agree with that view, but if that is your view then once again it is certainly not simply a “womens issue”.

Phil
I am afraid that it is you who dream. Obama received the majority of the Catholic vote. Every priest I know (among 6 local parishes) spoke out publicly in favor of his candidacy, and his pro-abortion stance was no secret from the very beginning.

Deb: You can quit repeating over and over that “abortion is a legal medical procedure.” Being legal doesn’t make it right. Slavery used to be legal, too! How about assisted suicide?? Once that’s legal across the board, will you be supporting it, too??
For a person who believes that MURDER is wrong, they should never be forced to turn their tax money over so that it can be used for MURDERING innocent people. Unfortunately, Planned Parenthood ALREADY receives millions in “federal grants” every year (uh… tax-funded).
Don’t want a baby? Don’t have sex. Got pregnant from rape or incest? Don’t punish the child for the father’s crime.

Semaj – Oct 8, 2009 9:41:45 PM
“1) There is no such thing as separation of Church and state. You’ll never find it in the Constitution.”
~~~Hmm, the very first amendment of the constitution says that government should make no laws respecting an established religion. Are you thinking of the right country? Perhaps we should look at some quotes of the founding fathers to see what they meant:
“There is not a shadow of right in the general government to intermingle with religion. Its least interference with it would be a most flagrant usurpation.”
— James Madison, Founding Father and author of the First Amendment, 1788
“The settled opinion here is that religion is essentially distinct from Civil Govt. and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both….”
— James Madison, 1823
“Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.”
— John Adams
“Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.”
— John Adams
“Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.”
— John Adams
“Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.”
— John Adams
“The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.” — John Adams
“The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.”
— Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard, 1758
“The United States Constitutional Convention, except for three or four persons, thought prayers unnecessary.”
— Benjamin Franklin
“The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.”
— George Washington, 1st U.S. President
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition (Christianity) one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”
— Thomas Jefferson
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”
— Thomas Jefferson

Jay,
Sorry to break the news to you, but the election was almost a year ago.
Many of us tried to warn the bishops that Obama would seek draconian pro-abort legislation. Those Catholics, priests, bishops and parishioners who voted for Obama, tried to convince themselves we were exaggerating.
They’ve since been convinced we weren’t. They’ve seen enough to know that Obama is dead serious about ramming abortion down the country’s throat.
You should pay attention to the bishops now, not the bishops or priests of October 2008.

Phil O’Loghy | Oct 8, 2009 9:44:36 PM
No, you did not give a rational arguement, and I did not make an irrational argument. Pre-born or post mortem, they do not have functioning nervous systems, cognitive abilities, fear, pain, memory, etc. etc. etc.
Again, it is the law of the land, and is also accepted by the scientific and medical communities.

The whole bill is a scam used by Obama and crew to rob the american people of money. BTW, at a minimum this health scam will force all people to pay $19,400 for a family of 4 making 96,000 just for the silver plan. 19% of their salary before taxes. Of course, once EVERYONE is required to buy insurance the prices will soar while quality will go down.

A woman’s point of view on RAPE: First, a young woman is held down by a strong man, a stranger. He commits a violent crime between her legs, robbing her of something precious. If the woman finds out she’s pregnant, and has an abortion, then yet AGAIN, a strange man comes in the room, renders her helpless, and commits yet another violent act between her legs – AGAIN robbing her of something precious.
Tell me, how has this healed the woman????

If those men REALLY cared about those children they’d shame the other men into paying up.
Posted by: Secondlook | Oct 8, 2009 9:55:52 PM
How about if: BOTH parties took care to NOT have UNPROTECTED sex in the first place? THEN it would not BE an issue at all.
How about if: BOTH parties agreed to SHARE not only the COST of raising the child but also the RESPONSIBILITY of PHYSICALLY raising the child.
See the problem with this entire arguement YOU have is: If the woman decides to have an abortion and the father WANTS to keep the child, YOU would say the WOMAN has the right to choose over the man’s rights as a father. BUT, if the woman decides to KEEP the child and the male doesn’t WANT to be a father, then by YOUR arguement, he is RESPONSIBLE to PAY UP for something he had no decision in or desire for.
You cannot have it BOTH ways. If it is strictly a “woman’s issue” then unless BOTH parties agree to keep the child, the woman shouldn’t be ABLE to demand payment for the child. It was HER decision to KEEP the child, her responsibility to raise it.
Before you blow a gasket, I am a 40 yr old mother of 2.

Everyone in the US has the right of free speech unless, of course, you are a person of the Christian religion!
Intimidation, exclusion, marginalization, etc. all standard fare for the religious, especially Christians who are conservative, in the loony liberal world of religious bigotry. Welcome to the NEW America! So much for free speech. As speech goes, so goes America. It is way too safe for religious bigots to harm Christians in America. I wonder why it is called the “First Amendment” when it is no longer applicable in this liberal government when bigots on this comment section can be free to abuse us conservative, family oriented and pro-life Christians?

How about staying out of our politics, or losing your tax exemptions?

I am a Catholic and a female. I am not a sexist. All life is precious. Abortion may be legal in the USA but that doesn’t make it right. It is the killing of human being. Modern science has shown what the fetus looks like and it is a human being.

William Joseph Miller wrote: “Our infant mortality rate is twice as high as the infant mortality rates of Sweden or France, according to the 2009 CIA fact book.”
Between 1980 and 2000 in the United States, the infant mortality rate was reduced 45%, from 12.6 to 6.9 per 1000 live births. Low birthweight is the primary risk factor for infant mortality and most of the decline in neonatal mortality (deaths of infants less than 28 days old) in the United States since 1970 can be attributed to increased rates of survival among low-birthweight newborns. Indeed, comparisons with countries for which data are available suggest that low birthweight newborns have better chances of survival in the United States than elsewhere. The U.S. infant mortality problem arises primarily because of its birthweight distribution; relatively more infants are born at low birthweight in the United States than in most other industrialized countries. Unfortunately, little progress has been made in reducing U.S. low birthweight rates, which would further improve infant mortality rates. Health Care Reform cannot fix low birth rate.

Scrap all bills. Take a breather. Start again with free market solutions (remove state border restrictions). Incremental approaches – take tiny bites, step back and analyze results. Make the bill available for public analysis before votes. No pork barrel or political paybacks. No Apollo authorship. Do not exempt Nevada from the responsibility to pay. (How insulting was that!!!) Do not tax me on my benefits because I worked my butt off to get them – instead make someone else work their butt off to get them too.
We the People do not trust our politicians because they have shown themselves to be untrustworthy.
We vote again in 2010.

Sarah B. The right to murder is a heavy burden. God help the bishops!

If Obamacare passes it will be repealed within the next 5 years. There is no way the “real” costs of universal healthcare will be acceptable to the taxpayers of this country. ALL illegals will be covered under the equal protection clause of the US constitution. Obama knows this, as does every law school graduate.

All the church is saying is that if Congress doesn’t remove the items the church finds objectionable and in conflict with the catechism, the Church will have to formally counsel the catholic faithful against supporting the bill. Period, that’s all.
I’m Catholic and for my part, I do take into consideration the views of the Bishops, the vast majority of the time I then vote accordingly.
The Church has an obligation to catholics to interpret the implications to faith and morals of such legislation, to provide guidance. Those critical ought to go to the vatican website and try reading some encyclicals by the pope(s)- there is extensive information there as to the reasoning behind all church teaching.
Humanae Vitae is one encyclical which deals with the sanctity of life. Pope Benedicts most recent encyclical Caritas Inveritate, which he gave to Obama in July, deals with the economic crisis, the churches view of the obligations of governance, and explains why we can never achieve social justice when we fail to respect life.
MaryMary – in response to your post, Kansas was the late term abortion capital of the country, the A.G. out there subpeonaed the records from Planned Parenthood clinic. You know how many late term abortions out of the 700 he reviewed were legitimately for the life of the mother? ZERO. NOT A ONE. The problem with the argument about rape, is that while the mother is ofcourse innocent and victim, the resulting child is also innocent. Rape victims are unilaterally offered “Plan B” which is 93% effective within 3 days of intercourse. (Not that I condone that.)
It’s ironic that Obama is the most pro-abortion president ever, had Roe v. Wade passed a few years earlier, he might not be drawing breath. His parents were married a mere 6 mos. before his birth. And obviously, given his father’s imminent departure he was none to committed.

From Mother Theresa: “But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems. And, by abortion, that father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world.
Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion.
Many people are concerned with the children of India & Africa where quite a few die of hunger. Many people are also concerned about all the violence in this country. These concerns are very good. But often these same people are not concerned with the millions who are being killed by the deliberate decision of their own mothers. And this is what is the greatest destroyer of peace today — abortion which brings people to such blindness.

@ Deb….
“Abortion is a legal and sometimes very necessary medical procedure in the United States and in almost every civilized country on Earth. The Catholic Church should have no say whatsoever on any healthcare policy. Interesting that those on the right say that the government should stay out of healthcare, unless of course, it’s a women’s issue. The Catholic Church is one of the most sexist institutions that exist. There’s reason so many Catholics have left the church. The above story is one of them.”
That was pretty ignorant. There has NEVER been reasonable cause for an abortion, not one. If a child dies after birth and there was nothing that could be done to save it, then it dies, and that’s sad.
Not only that, but there are around 600 Catholic Hospitals in America(that’s around 12% of all hospitals in America). They should have a bit of say when it comes to health care reform.
I’m on the right, there is NO reason the government should get involved in health care. Everything the government touches, it F’s up.
If this bill passes, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Catholic Church closed their doors. And I wouldn’t blame them at all.

Guys, I don’t care if you like the church or not, but they’re right. Public funding of abortion is wrong. Abortion should only be used in severe cases such as rape or if the pregnancy is a significant threat to a mothers life. And even in the sense of rape, women do keep their babies and love them as any other mother would. This isn’t church running state anyway, they are giving their opinion (in a non-heartwarmingly way though). And to the guys who are talking about priest molestation cases. Look at some friggin statistics. Then you’ll see who to watch out for… Roman Polanski!!! :000

This bill has a huge allotment for Family Planning. That is predominately funding going to Planned Parenthood which is the largest provider for abortions. I also feel that if this bill is enacted and your policy is chosen based on your financial history (information provided by the IRS) if family planning is included YOU MUST PAY FOR IT OR BE FINED. Both my husband and I are retired with no chance of procreating so where does that put us hummmm?

Mark | Oct 8, 2009 10:14:09 PM
“Its not a “woman’s right” issue, it is a commandment by God – thou shall not kill. Plain and simple. All this rationalization about the need for abortion is BUNK! The reason the liberals argue for abortions is a result of their views of “womens rights.” Its God’s right to bring a baby into the world and no-one has a right to kill the baby, it not a woman or man’s “right” to terminate a child’s life.”
~~~You have every right to believe and practice whatever superstition you wish. But when you bring yours, out of thousands of deities that man has alleged exist, into public debate, it is not immune from critical analysis. In your religion/superstition, the father, yaweh (of the father, the son and the holy spirit) also said these things about murdering children:
-Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones.
-Deuteronomy 2:34 utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones.
-Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.
-I Samuel 15:3 slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.
-2 Kings 8:12 dash their children, and rip up their women with child.
-2 Kings 15:16 all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
-Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled and their wives ravished.
-Isaiah 13:18 They shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
-Lamentations 2:20 Shall the women eat their fruit, and children.
-Ezekiel 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children.
-Hosea 9:14 give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
-Hosea 13:16 their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
-Luke 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the womb that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.”
~~~Your god is beyond pro-choice, he IS pro-abortion.

Thank You Bishops for speaking out for Truth and for the lives of babies in the womb who can not yet speak but are as alive and Blessed as the baby celebrated with joy at birth. God Bless your work and may God provide that our health bill truly helps people by helping to provide treatment with dignity and a life affirming spirit.

Secondlook, If you didn’t hear any objections from the Vatican for the Iraq War, you were not listening. Sadly, even a whole lot of American Jews ignored the plight of the Jews killed by Hitler…it was a worldwide disgrace. Look, if you want to throw arrows, why stop with the 20th Century? Why don’t you go back to the Inquisition while you are at it? Listen, the Church is made up of humans with all the foibles embodied in the human race. My point is, if you are going to throw arrows, be smart, at least throw the right arrows. And somewhere along the line realize that they do a heck of a lot of good as well. Do I think they have made mega mistakes? Yup. But, to err is human, to forgive is divine. There is too much charity and goodness in the Church, it outweighs the faults. At least in this Catholic’s mind. And, they have my kids one hell of an education!

“This bill has a huge allotment for Family Planning. That is predominately funding going to Planned Parenthood which is the largest provider for abortions. I also feel that if this bill is enacted and your policy is chosen based on your financial history (information provided by the IRS) if family planning is included YOU MUST PAY FOR IT OR BE FINED. Both my husband and I are retired with no chance of procreating so where does that put us hummmm?”…… You’re already paying for this with regular insurance. Once upon a time you might have given birth. See how this works? Why do I have to pay for pills for some man to get his fun off when my husband doesn’t need it?

Hey! I’ll oppose it with you Bishop. It’s a bit of Marxist Effulivium hiding more than American Defeat.

NDMom – I will own this. I can not forgive them yet for what they did to the children. I just can not. It was ugly, and just so wrong. I am not talking the sick people that did the harm. I am talking those above them that put the church above doing the right thing.
I also rather find them sexist. No birth control, no abortion? Seems to me they really wish to breed more Catholics. Meanwhile I find it a national shame that so many billions are owed in back child support and nobody is fussing about the shame in that. I find it equally sinful. I was taught a sin was a sin.
Just my thoughts. Don’t want to fight really.

well you can all debate it in hell. what a twisted world. we get upset and send people to jail for dog fighting(not that its right) but want to use peoples money who are opposed to killing unborn children and then sit back and judge us when we get upset. just remember god is watching! just because you dont believe in him doesnt mean he,s not there.

With all the people in this country that are out of work, in danger of being homeless, and so on…and then we get the deal where we are supposed to meet the ‘needs of illegal immigrants’. Are you kidding me? The only ‘needs’ of illegals is to follow the Geneva Convention in getting them back to their home country.

Hey Pastafarian,
“Show us that the unborn have cognitive abilities”, what does that mean? There is no definition in the bible about cognitive abilities being the means test to take a babies life. It is very simple, Thou Shall Not Kill…science has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps you don’t kids? Adoption is a perfect solution for things that have gone wrong in a person’s life. And, that child will provide tremendous love to a new family.
I know, my 6 year olds best friend is adopted and he brings tremedous joy to this parents. He was one that could have easily been aborted…but thank God he wasn’t!

Well, considering that the Catholic Church owns and operates about 15% of the hospitals in America, and the Catholic Bishops have threatened to shut down each and every one of them if certain standards aren’t met in the heath care bill, I think the Catholic Bishops do have a lot of say in this bill. As they should.

This is outrageous and a direct violation of the U.S. separation of church and state. If Catholic priests want to “warn” Congress of how they’ll react to health care bills, Congress should immediately “warn” not only the Catholic church, but all churches that if they meddle in politics they will immediately lose their exempt status and start paying taxes.

This post is for Semaj – Oct 8, 2009 9:41:45 PM Thank you for your views on the seperation of church and state. Now here is my evidence that causes me to believe the fore fathers never intended there to be a seperation of church and state.
1. “In God We Trust”—According to the U.S. Dept. of Treasury, the motto ‘In God We Trust’ came about not at the time of the Constitutional Conventions, but due to increased pressures to recognize God on coins and money during the Civil War. In April 22, 1864, Congress passed an Amendment authorizing the motto to be placed on the two-cent coin. It appeared on various coins throughout the years, and appeared on paper money in 1957. The phrase was eventually printed on all paper bills, superseding the motto “E Pluribus Unum” (From Many, One) adopted by the Union in 1782.
2. The founders own words:
“As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith.” – Thomas Paine
“While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”
–The Writings of Washington
“Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God … What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.”
–Diary and Autobiography of John Adams
“Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. … Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us.” John Hancock
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.”
–Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia
“I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.”
–The Writings of Thomas Jefferson
“Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ.”
–James Madison, America’s Providential History
“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.”
–Alexander Hamilton, Famous American Statesmen
“The Bible … is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed.”
–Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry
“In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible.”
–John Jay, 1st Chief Justice to the Supreme Court. American Statesman Series
Seperation of church and state? I think the Fore Fathers have spoken more for it than against it.

Hey Libertyrulz
Don’t forget, it has pedophile junk has happened to all churchs, no church is immune, but the Catholic Church loves to be the focus of the press. What about Warren Jeffs and many others. I agree with you, this was a horrible period of the church…but many other religions have the same issue.
Perhaps you don’t understand the church, yes it is populated by humanity, and it has not always been perfect. But it was set-up by Christ and Christ picked Peter as the first Pope, the dude who denied him 3 times. My point is even Peter was not perfect but Christ made him the first Pope of the Catholic Christian Church.
I find tremendous comfort and peace in the Catholic faith and I converted from being a Methodist.

Phil “And this has nothing to do with anything.”
~No, you talked about, at best, illegal activity, and nothing about legal abortions. Furthermore, you’ve yet to back up your claims that go against the scientific and medical communities.

92F150: No, there’s a difference. Deciding whether a war is unjust or not is a prudential judgment. Bishops rightly express their prudential judgment but in the end, responsibility for going to war rests with legitimate public officials. War is only justified at all because someone is guilty of grave injustice and cannot be stopped by some other means. Honest people can in good faith disagree about prudential judgments. Bishops rightly give their assessment as to the correct prudential judgment but that’s the limit.
Abortion involves innocent life and thus involves no prudential judgment whatsoever. Direct abortion is always, without exception, wrong. A given war may or may not be immoral.
Apples and oranges, my friend, apples and oranges are the bane of rational analysis.

so SEIU and the rest of the unions, immigration groups, women’s “rights” groups, ACORN, and the rest of the myriad democrat constituencies get to have a say in the bill and help write their demands in, but God forbid any other constituency group make their opinion known. Catholic leaders have just as much of a right to express the moral demands of their members as any other group. unfortunately, the Catholic Church is leaning more and more to the left and falling for this “social justice” canard the left uses to reel them in, but at least they still stand firmly for the rights of the unborn, the elderly, and everyone else Obamacare wants to get rid of.

Thanks to the trio for their moral opposition to abortion, but it’s going to be a tough battle: This president and his party in Congress live to butcher unborn babies, and what better mechanism to institutionalize it than this forthcoming monstrosity of a health-care bill. Enough is enough — let the asteroid plunk the planet and be done with it all already. What failures, us.

Spirit: You are right, the people posting “Thou shalt not kill” are sloppy. They should post “thou shalt not murder,” “thou shalt not take innocent life,” because that’s what that Commandment means.
War deliberately takes guilty human life. It may accidentally take innocent human life. If someone goes to war against non-guilty, he does a grave evil. If someone deliberately targets the innocent in the name of defeating the guilty, he does a grave evil. But the key word there is deliberate. If the guilty uses the innocent as human shields, . . . prudential judgment . . .
Not so tidy and neat after all, is it, Spirit??
Guilty human life and innocent human life; apples, oranges. Your moral equivalence is not coherent.

I believe Jessie was 100% right when saying: Are those bishops for or against the health care required to heal the boys who have been molested and sodomized by the RC clergy?
I’m not a lawyer but I believe that when church groups interfere with a vote and an election that they can lose their tax exempt status. Can we have a lawyer advise us on this?

Uh, Pasta, we’ve got a problem.
“Legal” is not at issue here. No one disputes that the SCOTUS made abortion legal.
At issue throughout this entire thread is the morality of abortion. Legality is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT to this debate.
Slavery was legal but immoral.
Legal does not equal moral.
You seem to think that the two are the same. That really gets you off on the wrong foot.
As far as science and evidence is concerned, I’ve offered a hell of a lot more than you have. So far you haven’t offered one word of scientific evidence, only bald assertions, some of which (that dead people don’t have functioning nervous systems) were actually accurate but only because you didn’t know the difference between post-mortem and post-partum. If I were you, I’d not be so quick proclaim me a doofus.

thx Deb ‘clinton’ but abortion is neither ‘safe’ or ‘rare’. The Catholic church has no say in health care policy. Catholic’s turn out on election day and that’s all liberals care about!!

Hey David, If god is real the so is the morning star maybe he has some thoughts about all this. All praise the Morning Star the forrgotten angle who the lord himself gave earth to rain over, ALL NONSENCE ALL MAKE BELIVE

What is being forgotten in the comments is that the Catholic owns a very large number of the hospitals in this country. From a report on the Kenedy directory “The number of patients served in Catholic hospitals went up nearly 1.5 million, from 83.8 million last year to 85.3 million in 2009. The 562 Catholic hospitals in the 2009 tally were five more than the 557 counted in the 2008 directory”
That is the or else.

Those are reasonable demands.

In the USA, abortion was championed as a PRIVATE CHOICE. We were told it would be strictly between a woman (mother) and her doctor (abortionist). But after it became broadly legal, its proponents insisted that funding abortion be PUBLIC and that taxpayers should have NO CHOICE but to fund it.

“Even worse than making Catholics pay for what we consider murder is making Catholic hospitals perform abortions!”
People don’t go to hospitals for abortions, and any hospital can choose not to do ANY procedure. “Can I have a bone marrow transplant?” “No, we don’t do those here.”
Right-wingers: STOP LYING.

Already, too much power is in the hands of the federal government. There should be no federal funding for abortions. Roe v. Wade needs to be overturned and the power of abortion should revert back to the states where it belongs. If the central government has the power over the unborn, isn’t the next step for the government to decide when someone should die. But, have no fear because the current administration, when it gets its health care bill passed will have power to strip away the right to privacy. It will force Catholic hospitals to close. Doctors will be forced to provide abortions or lose their right to practice medicine. Morals, right and wrong, these things will no longer be the concerns of religion or you or I, rather the all powerful government. 1984 will come true in our times. We the People will exist for the purposes of the state and at the direction of the state. We the People had better wake up quickly or we will be CHANGED permanently. 2010 may be the last chance for correcting our mistakes.

The absence of a conscience clause would result in the immediate closure of about one-third of all the hospitals in the country, including many that provide charity care. A large number of physicians would have to change specialty, or retire, as would many nurses, other medical professionals and pharmacists. Major impact on the availability of medical care.

Ignatz
I don’t know the answer to your question. What I do know is the Kansas ArchBishop Naumann has been very decided in his approach to Kathleen Sebilius, our ex govenor and now Secretary of HHS for Obama. Naumann wrote a two page article in The Leavan (our Catholic newspaper)stating he had met with Catholic Sebelius many times, begging her to quit sponsoring cocktail parties and fundraisers for George Tiller, the baby killer, from Wichita. She would not stop….an now guess what she is in charge of? He also denied her communion.
Look the Catholic faith has both democrats and republicans as members and Jesus was a Jew.

Your right Erik the Catholic church doesn’t have a vote but it has 67,800,000 members and wikipedia states the following on its involvement in Health care so it does have a say….in 2002, the Church’s Catholic health care system, overseeing 625 hospitals with a combined revenue of 30 billion dollars, was also the nation’s largest group of nonprofit systems.[7] In 2008, the cost of running these hospitals had risen to $84.6 billion, including the $5.7 billion they donate.[8] According to the Catholic Health Association of the United States, 60 health care systems, on average, admit one in six patients nationwide each year.[9]
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It is good to hear the Bishops speak with their conviction rooted in the true teachings of Christ. Roman Catholics in America need to hear the truth of their faith, be it from the pulpit or through the media. Regardless of the idiotic criticism from the loons in this string against the Bishops and the Roman Catholic Church, I am thankful that the Bishops speak as they do. Catholicism is very serious. Those who criticize the truths of the Church should take some time to learn and to become enlightened.

Philip, the question of when exactly we all believe life begins differs greatly between us. Those that believe this typically believe so due to religion. It is indeed mostly a religious argument. How about you Philip do not have one if you’re against it? And would you please do me a favor and begin to get on all of the men that refuse to pay their child support? Because THAT promotes more of this. And as much as you men love to tell me what I have to do with my body it rather annoys me that you don’t seem to give a squat about men running out on the bills here. In my view they are no better than the person that aborts. Funny how this is never mentioned though. All on the woman there.

Many people need to be able to better comprehend what they read. The amendment says that the state needs to stay out of the church. There is nothing in there about the church staying out of the state. This separation of church & state is a misnomer designed to make it easier to tell the church that they cannot have any say in things.

Really? This is simply false. Show me ten bishops in this country who hold this view. Give me facts to back up your position.
“The three bishops mentioned do not speak for the Catholic Church. They are rogues. There are about 300 Roman Catholic bishops in the United States, and the vast majority of them defend abortion as a private matter between a woman and her God. Almost all these bishops teach that abortion is not to be prohibited unless every poor person becomes rich and every other social problem is solved first.”

Hank Fox said “So the Catholic Church wants to be a political organization? Fine. Take away their tax-exempt status.”
How about we also take away Planned Parenthood’s tax exempt status too. I bet what they spend on lobbying is many multiples of what the Catholic church spends.
It’s called freedom of speech, pal.

Hey Spirit;
“accept every sperm that comes their way” I don’ understand this statement at all? Are you referencing rape? If so, I would assume everyone on this blog considers it a horrible crime.
Relative to you other comments:
First, you made a choice, to have sex…simply you made that decision! A baby is not a throw away paper plate or a plastic fork to discard by way of an abortion.
Second, If you don’t want to parent because of issues in your life, then provide another set of parents with the joy of a child through adoption. The beautiful thing is you would be providing another family with the best “gift” of a lifetime. Frankly, I don’t know of anything better than this gift in life. I know this to be true because by 6 year olds best friend is adopted, and they are forever grateful to his biological Mom and Dad for allowing them to adopt him.
The thing that is missing in all of this discussion is the POSITIVE outcome of adoption! Children are a gift from God…we have 4 of our own and we are considering adopting.
Blessed are those who don’t vie for abortion but provide life to another family.

None of this is going to matter because the whole system is bankrupt and will collapse at some point.
This administration has done structural damage to the economy and destroyed the currency through reckless spending.It isn’t going to matter what they pass or vote on or whatever.

Secondlook
This is not a male or female debate. I agree stealing and killing are both bad. Abortion is killing, not paying child support is stealing.
Perhaps you need to be more responsible in picking quality partners instead of those who run from their responsibility?
You do have a choice.

While I am not a Catholic, I do believe that the Catholic gentlemen who wrote this letter had every right to do so. I also believe that the issue goes beyond abortion. If the bill includes coverage for abortion, it will apply to every hospital in the country, including Catholic hospitals. Those who operate those Catholic hospitals will be forced to either violate their conscience or close their doors as even Catholic hospitals are dependent on insurance payments to fund much of their operating costs. If the government is supplying the funding, the government gets to call the shots. While we love the anti-establishment clause when we are opposing any government involvement that would promote one religion or another, we too easily forget the rest of that clause that says Congress shall pass no law that interferes with the free exercise of religion. Catholics have every right to protest something that potentially would force them to violate the teachings of their church and their conscience.

haha Mark is now blaming the women for choosing bad men. Gosh I love how you guys always try to work this one in favor of your sex here. The men that are true men that step up and take responsibility for unwanted pregnancies? Well, they’re too far and few. Hence why you need to butt out. Not long ago Coach Pitino in Louisville got caught on this one. The man is Catholic. What did he do? Immediately give her money to abort. See, the part you don’t get is if this happened to you odds are you’d follow Pitino.

So Spirit, I honor and salute your friend for her decision to give the child up for adoption. But she needs to get counseling for this…for her to say she wishes she would aborted the child is bizzare.
Your friend, through her heroic action, although very painful, has provided another family with “The Worlds Best Gift!” I mean to for her to say she would rather aborted this child versus giving it up for adoption is very sad. Your friend is a hero, she did the right thing, she provided life to a baby and love to another family.
Your friend has valor and she will be blessed. I only wish there were more like her. Give her confidence that she made the right decision and I think any church will support what I say.

I am Catholic and I wish that they would back down. The Catholic Church has been hijacked by the socialists. It used to be that the Church and family used to be responsible for taking care of anyone who was down on their luck. Since Roe v. Wade and the legalization of the pill, the family unit has been destroyed. Now the Church seems to want to pawn their responsibility to care for the disadvantaged off on the government. Since when are we supposed to look to Caesar for the answers?!?!? If we can’t trust an institution dedicated to do God’s work to protect kids from pedophiles, how can we trust any goverment which is inherantly self serving to actually try to do the right thing? With all due respect, back off, get your own house in order, and resume caring for those who cannot care for themselves.
That being said, this health care sham cannot pass. None of the bills being pushed through Congress are intellecutally honest attempts to improve the system; they are just power grabs. We are gutting the Constitution, and its actively facilitated by the corrupt blue-bloods in Washington.

Secondlook
“The men that are true men that step up and take responsibility for unwanted pregnancies.” I agree with you. I am no way insinuating that “only women” make bad partner choices. It is mutual between both sexes and sometime we all make bad choices.
As for you last comment, no I would not do what Pitino did.

Occasionally, the Catholic Church gets it right. This would be one of those times. But lets be real. All the leftist indignation being spewed here is not about these priests. It’s the fear that millions of faithful Catholics will pay attention, examine their conscience, and the crypto-marxist power grab will be undermined.

I am one those who believe that taxpayer money should not go to abortion. And that abortion should be illegal. If you do not want a child then why are you having sex?

Secondlook,I too have a male friend who has fathered two out of wedlock. He did the right thing and is fully supporting them. The first one he married, they divorced, then he did the same thing again. I am not here to judge him, but I really salute him for taking the high road and he is a great dad. He eventually married the second woman and they had anther kid together. Both women wanted to have abortions and he was against it. It has all worked out and these kids are wonderful. The oldest is a senior in high school. This is a really good discussion

The Church has a right to free speech, too, but, of course, the left wants to silence dissent, as alway. In short, the only free speech acceptable to the left is its own. I guess they never read Jefferson or took a civics class, or worse, they did.

George, that is an unfair headline to say ‘or else’ – there is no threat. It is a simple statement that they cannot support the bill if it includes abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and etc. that violate church teaching. No need to bash Catholics for being Catholics, is there?

The Bishops’ letter is Exhibit A for the case justifying separation of church and state. The Bishops lose their moral authority when they become so demanding in terms of specific legislation, even showing a willingness to sacrifice the well being of millions of people unless their particular priorities are respected. They would do better tackling the major problems facing the Church itself.

For those who wonder why the Catholic bishops are involved and what is the “else” they speak of:
A large percentage of hospitals in America are administered by the Catholic church. If they will be forced to perform abortions, they will close their hospitals, which will create a huge healthcare crisis/shortage.
It is unconscionable to force a person to commit or fund an act which they find abhorrent and evil. To the person who says that since abortion is legal there is no recourse for those who oppose it: slavery was once legal. Legality does not mean something is right or moral.

Do you think that a seasoned catholic will give up their worldview for obamacare. If you do then you are kiding yourself. As mentioned in previous comments catholicism is not a small religon, which in turn means that these statements are not reaching a small number of ears.
Funny how that works a religous leader talks and people listen. As far as i know the american roman catholic church isnt made up of right wing or left wing its made up of the faithfull.
2009 years of documented religon
vs. 1 year of nothing.

Thank you to the Bishops for speaking up on this moral issue……….I thought they had disappeared….The Catholic Church absolutely has a right to make their views known…..Separation of Church and State does not mean not speaking in the public square………and, because something is legal, it does not mean it is moral……..slavery was legal, but reversed because it was immoral……..

I challenge everyone to ponder these words from President Harry S. Truman: “Human life is something that comes to us from far beyond this world, and the purpose of our society is to cherish it and enable the individual to attain the higest achievement of which he is capable. Human life is God-given and infinitely valuable.”

These Catholics are just exasperating. We voted for Obama to bring a fundamental transformation to this country. Fundamental transformation doesn’t mean just tinkering around the edges. It means deep, wide, and long-lasting CHANGE. Why is anyone surprised that the new may be vastly different from the status quo, which is unfair, bigoted, and unsustainable? C’mon people – get with the program! We have the votes in Congress. Let’s do this right the first time. Quit bickering with Repubs and bring real change to the American people now. If you wait until after 2012, it will be a whole new ballgame. What happened to Yes We Can?

Abortions whether right or wrong is only realistic if the women somehow figure in advance the future child will be a derelict or with extreme health issues that are too difficult to handle long term.
Economically for couples this makes sense to minimize parental bankruptcy and morally it’s an open issue due to beliefs in nothingness to something after all this passes in the world we live in today and in the future.

Everything from criminals like Madden for investment scams to Desmund Tuto in South Africa are created and making it go away creates unknowns that are good or bad to the future of society and the progress of this civilization. The point is the future is created both chaotically and with what seems to be a sense of purpose and reason both at the same time.

The bishops are to be commended for upholding the right to life of every individual, from conception to natural death. But they should follow the teachings of Popes Leo XIII and Pius XI, who spoke vigorously against socialism in any form. It didn’t work for the church in its beginning (see Acts of the Apostles) and it won’t work now. It destroys incentive, is an assault on family life, and negates charity. It is evil from beginning to end and the bishops are unworthy servants of God if they ignore that.

It is AMAZING how DIVISIVE this group of Democrats and this Obama administration really are.
Barack Obama promised to be beyond politics and “post-partisan” yet he has managed to poke a finger in the eye of EVERY major constituency group in the nation.
He has offended huge swaths of our citizens and pushed people back into a position where they feel they have to defend the most basic of their values.
I am not the first one to say this, but his agenda is pulling the fabric of our nation apart at the seams.
God, please help us.
We need to pray for Obama’s eternal salvation and that of our country.

So the Catholic Church wants to be a political organization? Fine. Take away their tax-exempt status.
Posted by: Hank Fox | Oct 8, 2009 6:13:03 PM
In case you do not know maybe you should do some research on how many Catholic hospitals there are in America. I think something like one out of every six patients in America is receiving care by the Catholic Church through is hospitals.

The subtext of this conflict between Obama and the Catholic Church is AMAZING – the Church WANTS to work with the Democrats to construct a universal health care bill, but the Democrats are refusing to ally themselves with the Church (nominally 80 million citizens).
This Democratic congress is motivated by ideology and a thirst for power. How else can we explain their rejection of such strong overtures by the Catholic Church.
The Church is also in favor of legalizing illegals. The Obama administration can use all of the support it can get in that struggle, yet it is pushing away the Church.
That’s bad politics and bad policy.

For Catholics, abortion isn’t a political issue, it’s a moral one. Despite the 1970s Supreme Court ruling that abortion is a “right,” there is nothing in our constitution mentioning this right.
It is a contradiction. We have two philosophically opposed notions at work here–to say that killing (victims of murder, civilians during wartime, genocide, etc) is an evil act demanding harsh punishment, and at the same time a legally protected “right.”

You’re missing one fact: the Catholic church owns and operates numerous hospitals in the United States. They have a big say in this because they are one of the biggest single direct provider of healthcare in the country,

When the Church begins to treat women as human beings of equal value to men and deserving of an equal role in the Church, then perhaps the rest of the world will pay a bit more attention to its pronouncements on the subject of “human dignity.”
Posted by: VirginiaDare | Oct 9, 2009 1:21:06 AM
When women start to treat themselves with some dignity then maybe people will not treat them like walking matresses. But I think this church does show women how to have some dignity. Many of the women have strong say in church.

Remember this is the same bunch of screwballs who sentenced Galileo to a life time of house arrest for defying the Vatican when he dared to tell the truth about the earth orbitting the sun. After 356 Years they still are a bunch of backward rubes !
Posted by: Bob Marston | Oct 9, 2009 3:28:35 AM
The Church sentenced Galileo because he did not listen to the law at the time. The law at the time stated that if you are going to go against the teaching of the Church with science then it is ok but you must have viable proof and not just spread theory. At the time Galileo said this it was only theory and not proven, which is why the Church took action. He was warned and then tried. After all it was the Pope whom was his patron. That is the Pope was the one who paid him to do research. So don’t make it sound like the Church is against science. It is not, it was on the cutting edge of science then and is on the cutting edge now with its hospitals earning top rating across the country.

“Abortion … is an elective procedure and … should be paid for out of pocket”
So should births, which are also elective.
“Many women use abortion as birth control”
You are an idiot. I bet you also buy into the myth that “domestic violence increases dramatically on super bowl sunday”.

If they get through any sort of health care and I end up on it non-voluntarily, I will start a class action lawsuit that the rest of you can join because this B.S. of health care reform is totally unconstitutional

The Catholic Church is the single largest provider of healthcare in this country. No single group accounts for a larger plurality of hospitals than the Catholic Church.
The leaders of the church have been on record saying they will close hospitals before being required to perform abortions.
Could the government force hospitals to perform abortions against their will? See the Freedom of Choice Act before Congress and make up your own mind.
The Catholic Church has clear teachings on situations such as an ectopic pregnancy and situations where the mother’s life is in danger. Acting to save the mother’s life is not wrong in the eye’s of the church.
Citing rape, incest and the life of the mother are convenient arguments, and are very, very, very rare cases where abortion is performed.
The main reason, the greatest number of abortions, well over 99%, are performed for the convenience of the mother. She got pregnant–not by rape or incest–does not want a child and the pregnancy is ended. It is a choice by the pregnant woman.
Now whether a pregnant woman has a life in her womb or not, and if so, to what extent she can control that life, can be debated, but what cannot be debated is the reason for abortions in this country–choice and convenience.
Using rape, incest or medical reasons as an argument is a smoke screen, trying to hide behind the real reason for abortion–convenience, lifestyle and personal choice. I ask proponents of abortion to please cite these as reasons why abortions should be funded. That is being honest and truthful. Stand up for your convictions.
I would just add here that choice begins long before you decide to take your clothes off and get into bed.
This is not an argument about “separation of church and state”–a term that is not in the US Constitution. Thomas Jefferson used it in an often quoted letter, stating “legislature(s) should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” The Supreme Court has also used the term in several rulings. The Constitution were written to protect religious freedoms, but in today’s world these words have been twisted and are now being used as open hostility towards religion.
If the government can force you to do things that are against your beliefs–be they religious, areligious, personal, private, or whatever–be you an individual or a group of people, what have we come to?
(The government does not currently pay for abortions in any manner here in the United States, as law–see the Hyde Amendment. If you have Medicaid, are in the military and have Tricare or have other public insurance, you have to pay out of pocket for your abortion. The federal government, under the new administration, did change policy and begin funding abortions overseas in foreign countries as part of foreign aid packages.)

What do a few Bishops know about health care? They should stick to preaching.

The ignorance regarding Catholic teachings here is amazing. The Church recognizes that there exist situations wherein abortion is necessary – in these cases, where the mother is truly in danger of losing her life, the Church recognizes something called “double effect” – you should google it if you are still confused.
As for the anti-Catholic, bigoted remarks in the comments here, I guess I am not surprised. After all the talk of tolerance for others views, it seems that there is a certain level of high-intolerance allowed (encouraged) by ‘polite society’ that is reserved especially for cases regarding Christians – and Catholic Christians in particular.
I don’t want my money going to the slaughter of the unborn – and that’s what I see it as. I am sure there are many who don’t want their money going to arms dealers – and would love to put an end to that. I am not looking to change anyone’s opinion about abortion – what it is or isn’t – I am simply stating that for people who believe as I do, we have a moral imperative to do the most we can to deny the use of our tax dollars for murder.

I think every person in the united States should be made to give Obama and his government everything they have and then let him and his Government divide it up as they see fit.
I can’t see why anyone in these United Stated need have a say on anything. Just be glad you are allowed to stay in country

The consequences go beyond just bishops’ opposition to the bill. If a health care reform bill passes that in any way forces health care providers to provide abortions, Catholic hospitals will be shut down, since there is no way the Church will comply with such a law. That will have a massive negative impact on our health care system, given that a large portion of our hospitals are Catholic hospitals.

The Catholic Church has as much right to express its opinion as any other organization does (including tax exempt ones). That doesn’t mean that members of Congress will actually have to do what the Church says (Pelosi and Kerry are 2 examples of Catholics that are pro-abortion).

Abortion is too limited. It is known that children up until two years old aren’t really ‘people’. And sometimes they, too, are just DAMN inconvenient! Let’s keep the spirit of the abortion of humans alive and extend it to murdering those under 2 at our whim as well!!!

This message to “Deb” the first posting. The bill would force doctors and nurses to perform abortions as well. In many cases that would be against their religion. Tell me something all you liberals. Who is the higher power we all must answer to someday, God or the antichrist nobama.

The reason this is such a big deal for the Catholic Church is that they run one of the largest, if not the largest, network of hospitals in the United States (google: percentage of american health care provided by catholic hospitals)
They are worried that medicare and medicaid funding for patients they provide care to could be withheld if they do not allow abortions at Cathoilic Hospitals under the new health care “scheme”. They have publically stated that they will shut thier hospitals down (not sell them) if they are forced, or blackmailed, into performing abortions. This would have devasting repurcussions.
The Catholic Church provides world class hospitals throughout our country, and in many cases they are the only ones willing to operate hospitals in poor areas (intercity and rural).
As far as the illegal aliens angle, that is just a part of their social justice position. As I understand it, the position is “if we are going to let these people stay, we have a duty to provide them coverage.” I don’t necessarily agree with that point, but I also understand that the Church will never turn away someone in need. And becasue of that, the Catholic Church is footing the bill for health care to illegals currently. (due to our elected officials inability to understand what the word “illegal” means).
So to all you Catholic “bashers”, perhaps you should understand the issue before you open your mouths. This is simply The Church putting making their actions in line with their belifes. WE DON’T KILL THE UNBORN.

Childbirth, for the most part, is an elective procedure and as such should be paid for out of pocket except in those few cases where conception was IMMACULATE. Then I think the church should pay the bills.
If you don’t agree then think of it this way.
When a doctor removes a baby the woman takes it home.
When a doctor removes a tumor they just throw it away.

If the Liberals force doctors to Abort babies as posited in several of these so called pieces of legislation, they will find out what 1/3 of the population can do at the polls. Doctors will quit thier practices rather than kill an unborn baby. Obama an his crowd of Communists will discover the limits of power. Barak you might as well invite all the Muslim Imams in the US to a Pig Roast than push this kind of “law”.

All of the snarky comments about “separation of Church and State” (from folks who apprently have little idea what the ammendment actually SAYS on that matter) and about how the Bishops should have no say in this matter have failed to acknowledge the elephant in the room: the Catholic Church is responsible for a HUGE portion of health care in this country. We run countless hospitals and clinics which treat the poorest of the poor. Without conscience protections and other safeguards, we may ethically have to close these institutions down. Think that won’t have an impact on current health care or result in a hidden cost? Just another thing for the government to take over at the end of the day, a concept which no one seems to have a problem with. Well, good luck.

If they are here illegally, let them access health care illegally too? Why obey some laws and not others.

The Catholic Church is the voice of truth and morality for the plurality of Americans. Their opinion matters. Congress, listen to it!

I think Sharia Law will settle the matter!

“Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” is GUARANTEED by the Constitution of the United States of America. Abortion shall NOT be tolerated because it violates the Constitution, the greatest document the world has ever seen.
DO NOT VIOLATE MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS; DO NOT VIOLATE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF THE MOST HELPLESS AMONG US – THE NEWBORN AND THE ABOUT TO BE BORN INFANTS; BESIDES, ONLY A COWARD WOULD EVEN CONSIDER HARMING A SMALL INFANT OR CHILD.
Is the newly elected Nobel Prize Winner(?) a coward????

Catholic hospitals provide a lot of care in this country; there are 624 of them serving 5.5 million people a year, and last year they had about 17 million ER visits. If this bill passes, Catholic hospitals will close, and healthcare availability will become even more difficult…meaning longer wait times and rationing. The bishops sent a letter to their elected representatives about their concerns, a right that any citizen has.

And further, the Bishops, in this letter were not stating that abortion in the case of the less than 1% of abortions (extreme health of the mother) should be illegal…they merely stated that if a person wants/needs it, they can fund it (or their insurance can choose to). The individuals who use these extremely limited (and yes, less than 1% of all abortions is “extremely limited) cases to advance their cause are being intellectually and morally dishonest with the public. They are advancing their agenda and lying in order to do so…hoping that by tugging on the heartstrings of people who sincerely believe in supporting the health of the mother and giving a family the opportunity for a potentially lifesaving treatment…and at the same time not revealing that less than 1% of all abortions are performed for this reason. Of the more than 30 million babies killed in advancing their agenda, that’s criminally dishonest on their part.

LOL can’t wait to see all the Catholic Hospitals close when Socialized medicine gets passed.

I am both a Catholic and on the right but to equate the two as being congruent is ridiculous. The stance of the Catholic church would be considered liberal if only the abortion issue was removed. The Catholic church has a right to its opinion, and Catholics have the freedom to agree or disagree with the church, even to the extent that they can leave the faith without fear of retribution.
Most abortions are for convenience, not to save the life of a mother. People need to be responsible for their actions and their mistakes. In addition, it is ridiculous that people who wish to adopt are paying thousands and traveling to foreign lands to find children simply because the US legal system gives too many rights to birth mothers, above an beyond any legal contracts. I don’t care if abortion is legal or not, but the most prevalent reasons for abortion disgust me.

The church has made its bed and now after years of compromising with the “social justice” crowd is forced to lie in it. Did these bishops think that turning a blind eye to abortion supporters like Kennedy and Kerry because the church wanted to work with them on other “social justice” issues wouldn’t come back to haunt them? God will not be mocked and being forced to close Catholic hospitals or perform abortions there is a heck of a judgement.

What people don’t realize and what has not been reported on by the mainstream media,is that Faith-based healthcare providers have threatened to close their doors if forced to conduct abortions. Do you know how many Faith-based hospitals are in the US? How many patients are seen annually? and how many jobs would be lost if they shut their doors? A Lot… You also need to open your eyes as to the “potential” strong arm tactics this Administration can and have used against any healthcare provider organization by withholding Gov’t funded grants and tax breaks if they don’t comply or support the Health Reform cause… Remember how the Banks and Automakers ended up caving-in to the Gov’t “stimulus” plans? How many CEO’s of those companies opted-out to only change their mind only days later to comply?

Thank you Bishops for speaking out. We have people who will take these unwanted children and raise them for 18 years and longer. That eliminates that problem. For those of you who hate the Catholic Church, we pray for you and hope you will find God’s Mercy.

Or else? Or what.. they gonna drive the deamons out of Pelosi and Obama? I would love to see that.

Separation of Church and State??
TAX THE CHURCH IF THEY WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN POLITICS and POLICY.

Religion meddling in government. I say pull their tax exempt status and let them fade away as Falwell and the moral majority did.

Hey Erik and Linda, the job that offered medical coverage listed “abortion” under their ‘birth control’ coverage section. Why? Why didn’t they cover the pill? Because they know that even godless women, such as myself, would not have an abortion. The insurance company and my employer both knew that most women will not ‘elect’ to have an abortion. So, I had to pay 100% of the cost of the doctor fees, copay, deductibles, then take the script to the pharmacy and pay 100% of the cost for ‘contraception’. While a man may stroll into a grocery store, gas station or bar bathroom and purchase his contraception. The solution that no one seems to be discussing is to tell our apparently selfish men to wrap it up or tell our male dominated insurance boards and male dominated corporate boards add real contraception to their policies instead of ‘birth control’. All pigs.

Catholics, in fact any people of good conscience of many different faiths and not just Christians, will not be able to pay taxes to a federal government that uses tax revenue for abortion. It will necessitate conscientious objection to paying federal income tax.

Who cares what they think.
You want to change the bill, run for office.
Lose your tax exempt status.
Pretty simple no?
btw: what’s your health care plan like?
Just asking.

allowing abortion to be covered by healthcare means all American Catholics would be forced to pay taxes to a process that is against their religion. This could be a clause that warranted a lawsuit based on the state interfering with religion. But if the Dems want to tick off all those Catholic voters, go right ahead. We’re ready in 2010 for change.

Tax the church!

The Abortion of a live infant is never “necessary” in a hospital setting anymore than solving the “Jewish Problem” was as the culture of Germany changed to view some murder as “necessary”
Some our elite leftist “ethicists” are now suggesting that, for the “mental health” of the mother, the mothers “right” to abort her infant should be extended to two years after it has been born – give it ten years and this will be the “progessive” viewpoint.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Catholic Church has a large and valid concern regarding health care (what should be health insurance) reform. I don’t have any figures available but how many hospitals across this nation are run by the Catholic Church? As such, the concerns over abortion must be taken into account when so much of the nation’s health care is in the hands of the Catholic Church.

RE: “Abortion, for the most part, is an elective procedure and as such should be paid for out of pocket except in those few cases where there is an underlying medical issue regarding the health of the mother, mental or physical.”
PLEASE TELL US HOW MURDERING ONE’S CHILD SOLVES A “MENTAL HEALH” ISSUE.
We are eager to hear more about this psychotic illusion. Wh les may a mother muder to preserve her “mantal health’ How about a colicky baby? Couldnt that send a mother into a dnagerous state of poor “mental health”?
If so then why shouldn’t the harried mother be free to kill her colicky infant, or better yet, have her psychcologist kill her infant for her in order to avoid the inevitable messy practicing-without-license charge?

Deb: The Catholic bishops have as much a voice as any citizen when it comes to debating federal expenditures. Why should unions have more voice than the Church?

Considering the morality of the mainstream culture today, I admire the courage and fidelity of the Bishops to Christ and the Church. Murder is wrong and evil. We as a culture are appalled by the holocaust and societies that have practiced human sacrifice. We are enraged when an animal is killed or hurt. But for some reason we embrace the murder of human babies. Roe of Roe vs Wade, is now actively pro-life. She will tell you that she was used to push an agenda. Abortion not only hurts women, but it destroys who we are as human beings, our culture, and sadly a country that embraces it.

As usual the ad hominem attacks on the Catholic church abound. The easy attack of clergy abuse is always ready to be used as a detractor from any issue the Church discusses.
As a Catholic the abuse was evil, brought scandal, and shame upon the Church and no excuses should ever be made and those that were responsible of the actions or cover up should be prosecuted and removed from public positions.
The abuse rate in the Catholic church was/is no higher than that in Protestant/Judaism/Islam/Buddhism etc but it did/does receive much more attention. Strange is it? Also the abuse rate in any of the religious orders is much lower than the general population. It would be great if the level of abuse in any religion was 0 but we are dealing with people.

Obama (who we are told is a very bright “constitutional scholar”) has been telling the LIE that the “public option” will be denied to illegal aliens.
One must conclude that Obama is either an idiot or a liar since it is illegal to deny any service to any illegal that is provided to citizens by the government.
This issue has already been decided by our supreme court rulers. It is unconstitutional to deny any free health care benefits to illegals as long as they are provided to US citizens. No law may discriminate against people who break our laws – ITS THE LAW!

For those of you who want to know why the Catholic Church has any right to speak in this debate it should be pointed out to you that they operate a majority of the non-profit public hospitals in the country. How many hospitals in your city have a name that starts with a “St.”? Good chance it is a Catholic hospital.
They are rightfully afraid that through all of this legislation that they may lose their conscientious clause and be mandated to perform abortions. This was and is a major goal of NOW and Planned Parenthood and one that Obama said he would fight for if elected.
If this happens they will shut down their hospitals.

Since when does being a religious person in this country take away your right to free speach. The people in this country who want to deny clergy the right to speak out on issues that concern the welfare of their flock, and the concern for mankind. If you really believe what you are saying, please consider the ultimate consequence of what you propose. When we deny a citizen the right to free speach on account of their position in life, then what stops future citizens from beeing denied on account of a future prejudice. People who want to deny the bishops their right to speak and influence their flock, are setting a standard for prejudice. To think that all Catholic religious are guilty of the abuse scandal, are no different than anyone in the past who has judged an entire group for the actions of a few.

“To coerce a man to contribute funds for that which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical” – Thomas Jefferson

Every pagan civilization has had its gods and sacrifices, and in the paganized U.S., many people, including several in previous posts, their god is MONEY. The sacrifice demanded of their god is human: the human being in embryo.

The Catholic Church should concentrate solely on preaching to the masses and stay the hell out of politics.

The Catholic Church should concentrate solely on preaching to the masses and stay the hell out of politics!

The bishops are treating this just like they did the abortion issue 40+ years ago. The same way they treat. Politicians for pushing abortion, stem cell research, and alternative life styles. TO LITTLE TO LATE, LET SOMEONE ELSE DO IT.

The Catholic Church does not pass laws. Special intrest groups do not pass laws. The opinions on this page do not pass laws. That power lies with the Congress and the President you elected. In the end no matter what arguments are put forth it will be your Representatives that pass/reject this. Not the Catholic church.
If you oppose or support abortion contact your Representatives and let them know. In the end if they want to remain in power they will do what their constituents demand.
Quit blaming special interest, they have ZERO power. If your Rep’s are influenced by them then buck up and fire them.

The Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil. Christian writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae (“The Gospel of Life”) have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder.
I’ve been searching for documents about health and I found this site: Yellow documents.
Marcus

The pederasts in the RC Church should just pipe down.

The Church better get in line and start worshiping the NEW God.

I think its probably about time we started taxing all religions in this country regardless of if they express a political viewpoint or not.
And Linda, “Many women use abortion as birth control and this practice” <– Really? How about some hard evidence to back this claim up. That is one of the more asinine claims I have heard in a while. Stupid, juvenile, fear mongering to try to get people on your side. The same goes for your bogus 1% claim too Erik. Stop it. Stop it now. All of you. Stop towing party or religious lines and think for yourselves. Although I fear that is probably too much to ask of most of you.

Keep at it Catholic Church. Hold Pelosi’s feet to the fire! Hold Kerry’s feat to the fire! They claim to be Catholic yet support abortion?!
Liberals/Democrats will be the downfall of the greatest nation to ever exist and thankfully the Church is stepping in to help REAL Americans save it from the LIBS/DEMS!

Those of you who claim there must be separation of church and state (which is *not* what the first amendment states) should then allow us Catholics to practice our religion AND not force government mandates that we hold to be heinous down our throats.
I pledged allegiance to the flag of the United states of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands,…
I hold no allegiance whatsoever to the ongoing paternalistic oligarchy. Reference Romans 12-9.
I don’t hide behind anonymous alias; I am -
Chris New York
Sovereign American

Just want to make sure I have this strait. Molesting boys ok, Hiding war criminals OK, allowing women to die because of pregnancy complications OK. Fine religion you have there!

The Church needs to get with it and worship the NEW God.
The Anti-Christ will be pro abortion.

Deb is dead wrong….but then again BIG Liberals don’t care that Abortion takes the life of an innocent human being. Abortion is THE ONLY medical procedure performed which is designed to terminate life. You can congratulate our Supreme Court for legislating Abortion, because Americans would NEVER have voted in favor of Abortion. Of course we all know Supreme Courts can and do make very bad decisions. For over 100 years they RULED IN FAVOR OF SLAVERY which of course was VERY WRONG! The bottom line is no one is above GOD and no one can or should be able to determine whether someone lives or dies. If Deb would read the Bible, she would see that a woman is the only human born free of original sin. Yes, Deb, the Virgin Mary was a woman. Try to reconcile that with your perverted view of the Catholic Church’s teachings. And by the way, go to the Catholics Come Home website and see the wonderful effort to bring Catholics back to the church. Sorry Deb, but its working! I recently came back to the church and thousands more are coming back. Just remember the church as survived 2000 years of people like you.

I don’t know what all the whining is about. Let’s keep murder legal!

Those of you wondering why the Catholics have a say in any of this, it is because over 1/3 of all US hospitals are Catholic hospitals. And those “or else” demands include shutting those 1/3 of hospitals down, as they will not support abortion. So if the government doesn’t listen to them, and the bill is passed, we will lose many of our hospitals.

RIGHT TO LIFE – did you ever hear of that before? What is it with you people who look to the rest of the world and excuse EVIL. Are you so intolerant of TRUTH and fearful of ABSOLUTES that you are so PATHETIC? YES I BELIEVE SO.

If feel that if the any church wants to get involved in politics/government; health-care, voter issues, or otherwise…I feel their tax-exempt status should be revoked immediately- no questions asked.
If a priest, pastor or church member wants to voice his/her opinion as an individual voter, let he or she do so without using church pulpit, the church letterhead, mentioning the church, or their title/status within their church.
I worked in the public sector with abused and abandoned children. I have yet to see many of the good ‘Christians’ line up to adopt many of these children, especially if ethnicity, age or medical problems are an issue; because then the I have seen the good ‘Christians’ become extremely picky.
I would rather a child not be born, than have one more already born suffer from abuse or neglect.
Abortion is no more morally a murder than sending young lives into war to die.

“Abortion, for the most part, is an elective procedure and as such should be paid for out of pocket except in those few cases where there is an underlying medical issue regarding the health of the mother, mental or physical. Many women use abortion as birth control and this practice cannot be stopped if public funding for abortions is increased, promoted, or readily available.”
Thank you Linda for injecting common sense into this discussion.
We are already paying for a multitude of mistakes made by others. Take a look at any of the cities on the East coast, we are overrun with mistakes already and they are rapidly taking over.

MaryMary, though it’s true men will never physically be endangered by an “at risk pregnancy” it does not follow that we have no opinion on the defense of children. It takes a man and woman to bring about a life and for those of us men who value life and who are doing our best to preserve/defend it, it is (at the very least) frustrating to hear that our opinion does not count.

I would like to know what right the government has to make ME pay for someone’s abortion?

The bishops are speaking on behalf of those who are opposed to abortion on demand. The church has always allowed medical treatment of ectopic pregnancy.
The arguments that the church opposes medically necessary treatements is false, unless you’re definition of medically necessary includes ” I just don’t want this baby”
We do have separation of Church and State, and happily that separation does not prevent those with a religious belief from voting and expressing their opinions.
Jim: There are in every diocese that I have checked numerous programs that will happily place those children in homes where they are loved, thus giving them decades of potential happiness in exchange for 9 months of maternal unhappiness.

Since when is it a “necessary medical procedure” to kill an unborn child. Libs are against the death penalty
but not when it comes to an unborn child. Abortion may be considered legal but is it moral? If this bill is passed we will all end up on Govt. health care. What employer in right mind is going to,pay for employee’s health care when it will be “free’ FROM OBAMA?
I do not agree with health care for illegal immigrants let their home country pay for their health care after they have been deported.

No sociolist health care bill will pass anyway. So this is ridiculous to even debate. Red state senators that vote for this and their relatives will not be able to go home,to work or travel anywhere else without seing protesters.

Here is an idea: Instead of us arguing about the fine points, I would like to see the liberals ask their congressman if they would trade us their health plan that they use and give that to us!!They then can pass this plan anytime they want to as long as we get their plan that they have. Any Liberals takers out there? Here is your chance to find out who gets the better plan!

Tax dollars are already used to fund abortions. The US government gives over 300 million to the country’s largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood, every year. In addition, Obama’s Stimulus Program included money earmarked for providing abortions in third world counties. These are your tax dollars at work.

whats the big fuss? the health bill is dead.

I totally agree with the Catholic Bishops. Abortion laws need to be totally rewritten in the U.S.
If a woman wants an abortion her impregnator should have to agree with the abortion. A blood test of the aborted fetus will be enacted after the abortion to ensure that the woman is telling the truth of who the impregnator is.
It’s only fair, men can’t opt out of child support, which they shouldn’t.

Is anyone here even pretending to believe that these three men speak for American Catholics? The majority of Catholics voted for Obama. How presumptuous of these bishops to think they speak for anyone but themselves. These bishops don’t have any power whatsoever to marshall the Catholic vote.
As for the Catholic hospitals? Close them. If that is the implied threat of these bishops, these hospitals couldn’t be all that important. If bishops can cavalierly threaten to close them, they need to be closed. Other groups of doctors will come along and open new hospitals.

Remember the first amendment. We do not have an established church. The founding fathers did not want to allow a church to use the power of government to enforce its rules. And it took 2.5 centuries to really prevent the government from enforcing religious rules. We can not let the Catholic church or any other get their noses into secular law.

The church is wrong on many issues but the one issue they are absolutely right on is life. Prolifers couldn’t care less about the body of the woman having the abortion. It’s the body that ends up in the trashcan these men are trying to protect. A noble cause indeed.

If abortion is a private matter, why should I have to pay for it? If you invite the government in to pay for health care, you’re inviting it in to manage all sorts of private decisions. Get the government out of our health care and our lives.
P.S. Congrats to B.O. on the Nobel Peace Prize and joining such other notables as Jimmy Carter and Yasser Arafat.

Unless we turn to God like Nineveh did, we will be destroyed like Nineveh whould have been without turning to God.
The Truth cannot be laughed away. At the judgement, will you laugh when Jesus says “I do not know you”

The bishops are attacking the health care bill from the moral imparative point of view. The secular part of society that has voiced its oppositon to this travesty of a bill, does it from the economic and ethical points of view. Both approach the same problem from a different direction. Like any good tactict, the best chance of vanquishing an enemy is to attack it from more than one position. Every argument exposes another hole in a bill that will descimate what is left of the US economy! May God bless this crusade and bring us to a swift victory!

Hank: And let’s take away ACORN’s tax exempt status too..especially when they are allowed to register voter’s for Obama and advise Pimps and Hookers on how to game the system.
Human Being: Good points, but just because funding of abortions is happening at State level and under Medicare, does’t mean we have to sanction it on a grand national scale with 50 million added to the Healthcare System. Abortions should only be used as last resort to protect the life of mother, not as an elective means of birth control. Think about it..why do we need labor from illegal aliens? Who’s going to pay taxes so that the Baby Boomers can draw Social Security when they retire? Just how many babies were put to death since Rowe vs Wade by selfish people who just wanted to have care free sex..they could be paying plenty of taxes right now.

If abortion had never been legalized–there would be 60 million more US citizen taxpayers in this country.

The Government should have no say whatsoever on any healthcare policy. Interesting that those on the left say that religions should stay out of healthcare, unless of course, it’s to support the issue. The government is one of the most inefficient institutions that exist. There’s reason so many liberal socialists have left the church. The above story is one of them.

Are these the same bishops who protected a bunch of child molester priests? More than likely they had something to do with it. They have no room to talk about anything. Save it for Sunday!

I don’t care whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, tax payers should not have to fund or subsidize abortions. If such funding is possible in the final health care reform bill, even if only through legal loop holes, then it should not be passed.

Catholic hospitals make up 13 percent of the country’s nearly 5,000 hospitals (624), and employ more than 600,000 people. One of every six Americans hospitalized in the United States is cared for in a Catholic hospital according to Catholic Health Association. So the Catholic Church does have an obligation to voice their concerns, BTW, you might want to look at Catholic Charities to see their past and current work (orphanages, hospices, women’s shelters, health care, job training, etc.) before you make silly anti-Catholic statements.

INSIST on TRUTH’s comments made me laugh. “Lawmakers and clergy really need to stop interfering with women’s health,” but still fund my abortions. That is beautiful. I think those who have religious beliefs opposing abortion should just stop paying taxes. Let the bleeding heart liberals fund abortions with donations. Then will see how “Pro Choice” everyone is. If you choose to have one, you should also make the choice to pay for it yourself.

The majority of American Catholic Bishops support the liberal agenda of Obama, and even if abortion is covered by Obamacare, they will express some disappointment, but they will never do anything to counteract the Dems and Obama. They have their “seamless garment” to cover them. Everyone who has been involved in politics knows that the American Catholic Church is an arm of the Democrat Party.

I think the Bishops were right. My I Just add one more reason onto the fire. When in history has a socialist form of government not tormented “freedom of Religion?” All socialist governments oppose religion of any kind because they are perceived to to be a threat to the “STATE”. This issue is much bigger than abortion and medical coverage. Please see.. Old Soviet Union, China, Cuba, N. Korea, Venezuela, Hungry, Romania, Vietnam.

What Bishops are saying that if abortions are performed – don’t make we taxpayers pay for or participate in them. Let the person receiving or performing the procedure pay or donate. Other organizations can subsidize if they so choose.

Hey Michelle, you say “ask the Bishops to fund a place for unwanted children untill they are 18 – problem solved.” Are you a complete idiot? Have you no friends or heard of anyone who needs to adopt a child? Healthy children are in high demand in our country. The problem exists with the impoverished children with non existent families. Those children are the one’s desserving our tax money and care. All churches in this country do a lot to help those kids, but obviously not enough.
The Catholic Church, albeit outdated in their opinions, still have the heart and soul of many Americans: and thus deserve the respect of our elected officials. I know some may not want to believe they have influence, but you’re on another planted if you think church go’ers don’t pay heed.

The Church does not forbid abortions that are necessary to save the life of the mother.

It’s amazing that Left calls the Catholic church ‘Right Wing’ and the ‘Right Wing’ calls the Liberal… perhaps Truth knows no ideology… whether something is popular or not (or legal or not for that matter) does not affect whether it is good or evil… Abortion is inherently evil and must never be supported by tax dollars (which are only collected because of the coercive power of government). The evil of abortion is supported by intellectual reason innate to every human, it’s not just a ‘religious’ belief…

I think the Dems, and Obama especially, are too dumb to see that Catholics make up the largest voting block in America, and if they do this, they will lose in 2010 and 2012

You are all missing the point! 60% of the hospitals in this country are Catholic hospitals. Free abortions will be part of this bill. The Catholic hospitals will refuse to do them and the bishops will close them. The “Above the Law” bureaucrats created by this bill will seize the hospitals for the public good. Didn’t anyone notice Connecticut already tried re-instituting a law from Colonial times that required committees of Non-Catholics to manage all Catholic real estate – Ct was protestant at the time and they didn’t trust papists. If we had a real media they would have reported the connection between what Ct tried to do and the helath care bill.

Wasn’t it 46% of Catholics that voted for Obama, knowing that he was pro-abortion, as well as late term?: TG
WHERE’D YOU GET THOSE POLS MSNBC!
Most INFORMED Catholics(unlike Nancy Paloci and Joe Biden)know where the Church stands on important issues; thus, would not vote for Obama.

If the Catholic Church wants to influence legislation, then it ought to have its tax exempt status yanked from underneath it. Otherwise, the clergy needs to shut up by keeping their views within the parish.

Secondary effects of pregnancy? What about the secondary effects of having an abortion. I know women who have become sterile because of one ONE abortion. And please educate yourself on catholic teaching because the church is not against necessary procedures to SAVE the life of the mother. By life I mean life, not your payments on your car note or your waistline, LIFE.

“I take comfort in knowing that whenever bitter souls delve deeply into The Catechism for ‘dirt’ on The Church, they come away as our most fervent Catholic converts.” – Kevin Burtyk

I dont agree with the Catholic Chruch on alot of Items, but there are few institutions that have done more for the poor than they have. The “what” are they going to do and the “why should they have an input” relates to this. They own, and charitably operate over 600 of them, which they will close down rather than see them partake in infanticide… unless of course you think the government should regulate catholic operations, “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.” It was meant to keep the govt out of the church, not the church and values derived from religious point of view out of the government.

“What I dont understand is what is the “Else”? What are they going to do. What are the repercussions?”
Catholic hospitals make up about 13% of all hospitals in this country and about 16% of all admissions(in some states this is even higher). They are present in all 50 states. This is the “Else”. They have the ability to shut down their hospitals if they feel that offering care will violate their beliefs.

Many millions of Catholic voters in the U.S. do not approve of killing innocent babies. Dems should be aware that their place in government is not permanent, and they cannot do whatever they wish without consequences. Next year is here already, and surely dems are feeling the ’94 blues.
Nancy Pelousy is a phony Catholic who ignores church teachings because she thinks she’s more important than everyone else, including the Pope and certainly unborn babies.
Her punishment will come in the blink of an eye, as it will to all those who make and then murder innocent babies for their own convenience, or endorse such evil, for they will wish they were never born.

Marymary:
Your assumption that no one has an opinion on the matter except those who ‘could’ go through it is poor logic for a couple of reasons. 1) It isn’t democratic–our entire system works on the assumption that everyone has an opinion to be expressed through a vote. and 2)The other person in that decision is the human child him/herself. I’d guess that that person would weigh in for life 100% of the time. and 3) as human beings we have all been fortunate enough not to aborted, even though we ‘could’ have. Next time interact with your assumptions before you get too worked up.

The Catholic Church may not have a vote in congress, but Catholics do. The Bishops are merely voicing their perspective on the bill and letting Catholics know where they stand. If you have issue with freedom of speech maybe you should consider another country.

The Catholic church rightfully tries to defend the life of the innocent. Only God should decide when to end an innocent life. Contrary to a previous post, the Catholic Church suports the penalty. A criminal is NOT an innocent life. It is amazing how much the Catholic Church is hated by people who have no understanding of what we believe in.
The Catholic Church in the United States did not do the right thing some years ago when they were shuffling child molesters around the country. Now, they make it very clear that anyone who has been molested by a priest should report it to the police IMMEDIATELY. Of course, you will not hear that on the mainstream news because it stops one facet of church bashing.
Lastly, NO clause in any of our founding documents mentions “separation of church and state”. The only references to religion is that the government cannot establish a religion, and freedom of religion.

so why are are bigots saying to stay out of this when taxpayers are being asked to support those whose religious beliefs say its OK to perform abortions? why doesnt the seperation of church & state apply for those who wish to enact laws that enshrine the abortionist religious morality & mentality as the law of the land that must be funded by pro-lifer’s taxes?
well it sure is hell is going to be dealt with now. and the pro-lifers will not back these perverted bills.
where the hell did anyone say in the campaign, in the constitution, or anywhere else for that matter, that I have to leave my catholic religion at the door of the voting booth?
why are those who are support & promote pro-abortion relious, moral & political beliefs the only ones allowed to have free speech & voters rights in this issue?
dont all of the pro-abortionists know that Obama could NEVER have gotten elected with out pro-lifers & catholics.
cheers & keep pushing bishops. ACT UP!!!

To all of you posting on either side of the equation, what if your mother chose abortion while carrying you? The creation of life is a gift that should not be tossed away. However, instead of picketing planned parenthood clinics, those opposed to abortion should be willing to adopt a child or use their money to support a child saved from death from abortion.

All about you Deb right?

bobby,
what makes you and others think that health care reform would negate the freedom of conscience laws that exist in 46 states and force Catholic hospitals to perform abortions or close their doors? This thought must be coming from somewhere? Their acceptance of Medicaid and Medicare, now, does not require them to perform such procedures or lose those funding sources — why would a public option be any different?

How hard is it to defend a baby? Is this the war you want?

Many people are asking, “why should we care what the Catholic Church says about health care reform?”
I guess people don’t realize that collectively, the Catholic Church has a big stake in health care–since they are a major provider. All those Catholic hospitals and free medical clinics apparently go unnoticed. So, yes, the Catholic bishops do have an appropriate place in expressing their opinion in health care reform.
Interesting to note that all the work of the Catholic Church in serving the poor and homeless medically (and socially) goes unmentioned; they have actually been doing what health care reform seeks to do. I guess those that actually ‘walk the walk’ should not talk just because they are associated with religious beliefs…

Like it or not the Bishops present a sound middle ground in the debate. Catholic haters like to point to the “sexist” view of the church but always fail to acknowledge the humanitarian work they do – in this case hard stance on making it work for the poor and immigrant population.
If this is ever going to go through it will take a compromise and while I don’t always agree with the Catholic hierarchy, getting them on board will help. Let them twist in the wind when faced with a caveat to allow abortion to SAVE a life, but no need to argue the going in position.

“Well it’s a good thing we have the separation of church and state,”
Actually Robert, the Bill of Rights does not contain that clause. What you are referring to is correspondence between a Reverend and Thomas Jefferson around 1810.
I have a problem with any law that uses the force of government to take money from person A, and gives it to person B. To me that makes person A a slave to person B.

It is an admirable thing that the Roman Catholic Church expresses its views on healthcare even though it risks the abuse of the leftist media and abortion mongers. The church is a moral anchor and doesn’t bend in fashionable winds in order to abet the killing of the children of the poor. Abortion is a killing process and is basically a social and cultural depravity. Those of conscience should not be required to support the killing of innocent preonates with their tax dollars.

I am a woman, a mom and a Catholic. In no way do I find the Church sexist. It stands up equally for the rights of the unborn babies, male and female:) Though none of us are perfect, there are many millions of good people in the Church, unfairly labeled and criticized. It is ridiculous to assert that morality and values have no place in government or the legal system. What else is the purpose of the legal system but to protect human rights?

Our priest gave an amazing homily on this subject last week. I’ve never seen a Church give a standing ovation until then. We are moving away from the ideals of our founding fathers, and letting others randomly dictate the lives of others. We keeping inching closer to disaster, not just with abortion (and it being used as a contraceptive. Just look at the stats on people who have had more than one. And how few in comparison have to do with incest or rape), but also with assisted suicide, or that public official who said the elderly are better off dead.
What happened to everyone ‘created equal…life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’? That chance is deserved to everyone, whether a newborn or someone getting old who made his or her contribution to this country. Instead, we are seen as $$$ signs and judged by whether we’ll make a return on investment. Disgusting.

Nothing new here. St Teresa admonished the Royal family of Sweden or Norway…I forget, 500 years ago, on abortion. The Catholic church’s stance on abortion has never changed.

irregardless of what was Posted by: Deb on Oct 8, 2009 5:37:51 PM
There is absolutely NOTHING civilized about abortion!

1.3 million abortions every year, and now they want tax payers to pay for them!!
1 out of 4 babies aborted are Black or Brown! What’s the matter with Obama??

simply put the catholic church runs many hospitals and all they are saying is that they will not provide abortions at them. if the government doesn’t like that let them buy the hospitals from the church, although it will be hard to find doctors and nurses to perform an abortion. it may be legal to get one, but you can not force a doctor or nurse to assist in this matter.you want an abortion, go to a public hospital or a abortion clinic, and pay for it yourself. better yet don’t get pregnant to begin with.but if you do, don’t go to a catholic hospital and demand to abort the child, and don’t expect me to help you pay for it.

It is a scientific fact that when a woman has an abortion it is never, ever her body which aborted.
Why should I be force to pay for a woman’s right to take the life a distinctly unique human being with its own distinctly unique human DNA?
If the woman wants abortion, abort her first and this will end all problems; further, I will not be forced to participate in her anti-scientific barbarism.

Do many of you church leaders understand why crosses are removed, why organizations like the IRS question your tax-free status, why some do not like catholic priests playing with kids, and why people like me do not like you to play in politics? Everything should be free, particularly to those who have not earned it. Socialism, yes, and that may be the reason why many catholics voted for the next savior, Obama. Don’t like traditional American values? Head for Russia or China.

What kind of “medical procedure” is it that kills the patient by design?
Abortion is the killing of an innocent human being, which makes it homicide, not a “medical procedure.”

I for one agree that abortions should not be covered. If the situation is life threatening to the mother or baby then that is another matter. But using abortion as birth control is wrong. Of course we want women who have been raped or molested to be able to decide on what to do as is their right. But there are those who abuse this. That is way to much for the tax payers and one of the main reasons we are in this shape.Adults should act responsibly and protect themselves. No to abortions unless medial emergency requires it. Get back to decency. Non Catholic. I agree with them. No more murder.

Funny, the only people supporting abortion are alive. Love the “women’s rights” arguments – damn the babies, its the innocent women that we need to protect.

Since when is taking a life a RIGHT? I have never understood that concept of the abortion law. What do you think you will give birth to if it isn’t a CHILD? Why would you consider it a ‘heart wrenching’ decision if you don’t KNOW its a child? Where’s the logic in that?
I guess people can rationalize anything.

For all of those who think the Bishops and the Catholic Church must accept the atrosity of abortion and experimentation on humans, like they did in Germany, I say, get a reality check. The Bishops should close every Catholic Hospital that they can find. Put all of the patients that are in the Catholic Hospitals into the Public Hospitals. Lock the doors of the Catholic Hospitals. The people will get, a very, realistic picture on how things will be when the mindless congress people will pass their poisonous
healthcare Bill.

“I agree with all three demands, though I would also say that *illegal* immigrants should be promptly jailed and deported after receiving treatment.”
Also, an amount equal to the cost of the provided medical care should be deducted from the foreign aid (if any) that the US provides to their country of origin.

@Mary,
God makes no mistakes?
Why is the human eye wired backwards and the squid eye is not?
Why is the human pelvis not designed for upright walking?
Why do human have the highest rates of death in childbirth over other primates? (see previous point, same cause)

Maybe the Catholic Church should be made to pay for the upbringing of those children that they are forcing on woman who do want abortions. But no, it is more, I want this to happen but I am not responsible for the consequences of what I want to force on a woman. Typical Catholicism mentality.

Catholics – PLEASE write a letter to the editor to your diocese newspaper to inform nice, but naive folks.

Thank God, at least the Catholic Church is speaking out against abortion; why are the voices of the other churches silent? Sold our souls to Caesar!!
Abortion (MURDER of the Innocent), and ObamaCare (DEATHCARE for the elderly), is Obama’s plan of “leveling the playing field;” this is Czar Sustein’s “population control,” and is inviting the judgment of Almighty God
upon America!! God have mercy on us!!

Most Americans do not want their tax payers dollars being spent to fund abortions that, in most cases, are the result of irresponsuble sexual activity. Less than 1 percent of abortions are the result of rape or incest, and even less than 1 percent of children that were aborted posed a threat to the life of their mother. While the country can benefit from the moral leadership of religious leaders from all faith groups, Catholic bishops lost a tremendous amount of respect by their mishandling of abuse cases. Consequently, one should not be surprised not only why people don’t pay much attention to what they have to say today, but also why fully one-third of native-born American Catholics have left the church of their baptism.