By Gorman Gorman

Oct 28, 2009 8:13am

Hard Counts: There’s a big ‘I’ in ‘Win’ as Reid shops for votes

ABC News’ Rick Klein reports: Who can count around here? (And who would want to know the results right now, anyway?)

Surely Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid didn't go through all that trouble just to give Sen. Joe Lieberman (or, in truth, any other senator in the Democratic caucus who feels like it at any given moment) the leverage once enjoyed by Sen. Olympia Snowe.

This is what it's going to be like finding 60 votes — just like it's been from the start. Senators aren't wowed by a sense of inevitability, not when they can debate something forever by being one of 41.

Reid, D-Nev., delighted the left by injecting the public option into the Senate debate. Maybe he'll get points for trying. But the math is no less stubborn than it was before we had a Senate bill.

Building up will probably mean buying off — and it's a seller's market when every vote means everything. (And does the price rise the longer this goes on — and the more the pressure builds from the other side?)

If this is true (and it just might be) … "Joe Lieberman is the least of Harry Reid's problems," said Reid, sounding like Bob Dole for the moment.

Gotta love Indy Joe (or not): "I will not support cloture on a bill I don't support," Lieberman, I-Conn., told reporters, per ABC's Z. Byron Wolf. (The "I" deserves boldface type, both in his quote and his party label.)

"Democrats expect Reid to spend the days ahead attempting to secure commitments from all 60 members of his caucus to allow the Senate to begin debate on the legislation, aimed at lowering health-care costs, reforming insurance practices and expanding coverage to about 30 million uninsured Americans," Shailagh Murray and Lori Montgomery write in The Washington Post. "But lawmakers said that if moderates' concerns do not prevent the Senate bill from advancing next month, the opt-out provision could be ditched on the floor."

"In the near term, at least, Reid will be judged on whether he can persuade his 60-vote, filibuster-proof majority to hold tight. He has one simple refrain that he repeats in private conversations with senators and that he repeated at Tuesday's Democratic luncheon: The caucus must stick together on health care reform," Politico's Carrie Budoff Brown reports.

"An air of jumpy uncertainty pervaded the Senate side of the Capitol yesterday, as packs of reporters surrounded senators on their way to their weekly luncheons to ask them about Reid's proposal," The Boston Globe's Lisa Wangsness and Susan Milligan report.

"Retreating on the public option would be embarrassment for Mr. Reid. But his effort has political merits, too. Most Democratic senators support a public option, and Mr. Reid may have believed that it was better to make a strong push, even if it fails, than not try at all," The Wall Street Journal's Janet Adamy, Patrick Yoest and Greg Hitt report.

Everyone has a price — and for some, it's lower prices: "Outsized influence is falling to Democrats who are on the fence," the Los Angeles Times' Janet Hook and Noam N. Levey report. "They are being courted with possible concessions not just in broad policies — such as ways to reduce the impact on the budget deficit — but in provisions affecting home-state industries."

Forget 60 — how about 55? Aside from Lieberman, "At least four Senate Democrats criticized the idea and won't commit to backing their party, and the two Republicans who have signaled a willingness to support health-care legislation said they won't vote for the program," Kristin Jensen and Brian Faler report for Bloomberg.

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., on whether he's changed his view on whether 60 is possible for a public option: "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know."

Bob Shrum says Democrats should just be Democrats: "Unlike 1994, this time both liberal and moderate Democrats understand the danger if they don't pass a credible health-care bill. That's why, in the end, they will. And they may be propelled in that direction by reading not just the history of 1994, but the election returns of 2009 in Virginia and New Jersey," Shrum writes for The Week.

And cue the assault: The US Chamber of Commerce is launching a new TV ad campaign Wednesday, on national cable and in seven key states.

From the script: "Washington's latest health reform idea? An $800 billion health care bill… and a government run ‘public option.' With big tax increases… over $300 billion… even on health benefits. The Wall Street Journal says larger deficits are guaranteed… Inflated taxes… increased spending… and expanded government control over your healthcare. Call your senators. Tell them to say no to a government-run health care bill."

Can the House save it? "House Democratic leaders are preparing to unveil a health care overhaul including a version of the public insurance option favored by moderates that would allow the federal government to negotiate rates with doctors and hospitals, top Democratic aides said," Roll Call's Tory Newmyer writes. "The development is sure to anger some leading liberals, who have drawn a line in the sand on a public insurance option pegged to Medicare rates. But it comes after leaders determined through a rigorous, weeklong whipping effort that the approach fell far short of gathering the support it needed."

And can the president save his Afghanistan strategy?

A bombshell in The New York Times makes it a bit harder to find our friends: "Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country's booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years," Dexter Filkins, Mark Mazzetti and James Risen report in The New York Times.

"The agency pays Mr. Karzai for a variety of services, including helping to recruit an Afghan paramilitary force that operates at the C.I.A.'s direction in and around the southern city of Kandahar, Mr. Karzai's home. The financial ties and close working relationship between the intelligence agency and Mr. Karzai raise significant quest ions about America's war strategy, which is currently under review at the White House."

Pressing the strategy: "October became the deadliest month for U.S. troops in the eight-year-old war in Afghanistan when two bombs killed eight soldiers and an interpreter in separate attacks Tuesday," Joshua Partlow reports in The Washington Post. "This time of year typically brings a decline in violence as insurgents regroup with cold weather approaching. Instead, the bloodiest days this month have displayed both the range of threats American soldiers face and the persistent danger of the most basic weapons."

"Combined with the deaths Monday of 11 U.S. servicemen and three agents from the Drug Enforcement Administration in separate helicopter crashes, 22 Americans have been killed in Afghanistan in the past two days," per ABC's Luis Martinez.

"The White House says that there's no way that these attacks are going to influence the president's decision," ABC's George Stephanopoulos said on "Good Morning America" Wednesday.

"There is an emerging consensus among Obama's team," he said — including no "precipitous withdrawal"; a focus on protecting cities, building up the Afghan army and government; attempts to turn the Taliban; and new targeting of al-Qaeda.

Per The New York Times: "President Obama's advisers are focusing on a strategy for Afghanistan aimed at protecting about 10 top population centers, administration officials said Tuesday, describing an approach that would stop short of an all-out assault on the Taliban while still seeking to nurture long-term stability."

The political fight will come home, regardless of what path Obama chooses regarding combat forces: "There's an emerging consensus that additional trainers have to be deployed, because the key in the long term to avoid the repetition of this cycle is an Afghani security force that is capable and can provide basic stability," Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., said on ABCNews.com's "Top Line" Tuesday.

Tom Friedman, on Afghanistan: "It is crunch time on Afghanistan, so here's my vote: We need to be thinking about how to reduce our footprint and our goals there in a responsible way, not dig in deeper. We simply do not have the Afghan partners, the NATO allies, the domestic support, the financial resources or the national interests to justify an enlarged."

Big stakes for the secretary of state. ABC's Nick Schifrin: "Secretary of State Hillary Clinton arrived in Pakistan today for one of the longest visits by an American diplomat in years, an attempt to combat rising anti-Americanism here and convince a skeptical Pakistani public that the United States is a long-term, dependable ally. . . . Her 3-day visit, conducted under extraordinary security, comes in the middle of one of the Pakistani military's most important operations since 9/11 – a 30,000 troop offensive into South Waziristan, where Pakistan says more than 80 percent of the attacks in the country are planned."

Clinton told Pakistan's leading English newspaper, Dawn: "I hope on this trip I will be able to start that ball rolling, so to speak, so that maybe some in your country will say, ‘I really didn't have a good opinion before — I thought it was all about, "Are you going to be with us or against us on the war on terrorism?"

A special moment at the Capitol, at 11 am ET Wednesday: 90-year-old former Sen. Ed Brooke, R-Mass., receives the Congressional Gold Medal at the Rotunda. President Obama will be there, making it the first (and perhaps the only) time the nation's first popularly elected African-American senator meets the nation's first African-American president.

Also on the president's schedule: "President Obama today will trumpet his administration's efforts to slash wasteful projects from defense spending when signing the Defense Authorization bill approving the Pentagon's funding blueprint," Christina Bellantoni reports for Talking Points Memo. "At 2:30 in the White House Rose Garden Obama will sign the measure authorizing 2010 spending of $680 billion. The president will laud Defense Secretary Robert Gates for helping him remove funding for F-22 fighter jets and a new fleet of presidential helicopters."

This one will be huge with talk radio: The Washington Times' Matthew Mosk has a long piece taking apart the Obama money operation.

"During his first nine months in office, President Obama has quietly rewarded scores of top Democratic donors with VIP access to the White House, private briefings with administration advisers and invitations to important speeches and town-hall meetings," Mosk writes. "High-dollar fundraisers have been promised access to senior White House officials in exchange for pledges to donate $30,400 personally or to bundle $300,000 in contributions ahead of the 2010 midterm elections, according to internal Democratic National Committee documents obtained by The Washington Times."

He continues: One top donor described in an interview with The Times being given a birthday visit to the Oval Office. Another was allowed use of a White House-complex bowling alley for his family. Bundlers closest to the president were invited to watch a movie in the red-walled theater in the basement of the presidential mansion."

Flashback to the campaign: "The argument is that I know it's muddy, and I want to clean it up," Obama said.

It looks like the administration is going to like Friday's numbers: "States have reported using stimulus money to create or save more than 388,000 jobs so far this year, buttressing the Obama administration's claim that the $787 billion plan has had a significant impact on the economy," Brad Heath and Matt Kelley write for USA Today. "That total, based on a USA TODAY review of reports from 33 states and Puerto Rico, includes teachers, construction workers, and others whose jobs were funded by stimulus money awarded to states. The administration plans Friday to release reports from all 50 states, providing the broadest accounting yet of the stimulus plan's impact."

Bill Gates' new mission: Telling the public that foreign aid to health programs works.

"It's not often you hear about a government program that's gone so well, in fact, even better than expected," said Gates, interviewed alongside his wife, Melinda, by ABC's Charlie Gibson on "World News" Tuesday. "We think when people hear about that, they'll support what's only a quarter percent of the budget being continued and even increased."

The Gates' new venture, The Living Proof Project, is an outlet for "impatient optimists."

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, R-Calif., not mincing letters: "It reads like an innocuous letter from Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, explaining why he vetoed a wonky piece of legislation that would have made changes to ‘infrastructure financing districts,' " the Los Angeles Times' Michael Rothfeld reports. "But hidden in Schwarzenegger's text is another message: an obscene phrase apparently directed at the bill's author, Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco), who ridiculed the governor earlier this month."

"A straight reading of the guv's letter laments ‘the fact that major issues are overlooked while many unnecessary bills come to me for consideration,' and concludes, ‘I believe it is unnecessary to sign this measure at this time,' " Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross write for the San Francisco Chronicle. "But a vertical read of the far-left-hand letters in each of the missive's eight lines offers a more blunt explanation: ‘I f— you.' "

ABC's Teddy Davis: "The bill was unobjectionable to legislators of both parties: it sailed through the Assembly and state Senate on unanimous votes. It was vetoed, however, by Schwarzenegger who said in his message that he considers it ‘unnecessary' to sign the bill at this time because another year has gone by without the legislature tackling big issues such as water reform, prison reform, and health care."

Tight in New Jersey: "New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine leads Republican challenger Christopher Christie for the first time in their five-month slugfest, on top 43 – 38 percent among likely voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Independent candidate Christopher Daggett has 13 percent, with 5 percent undecided."

Is there even a Republican candidate anymore in NY-23? Accountable America gets into the outside-group spending game (take that, Club for Growth) on Wednesday, with an ad attacking Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman.

Learning a lesson? "Rep. Alan Grayson, the Florida Democrat who became a hero to some liberals by standing by his remark that Republicans want sick people to ‘die quickly,' issued an apology on Tuesday evening for calling a senior Federal Reserve adviser a ‘K Street whore' in a radio interview," ABC's Teddy Davis reports.

Let us know when she accepts (then let us know again when she actually shows up): The Iowa Family Policy Center has invited former Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, to keynote an event next month. "Palin, the 2008 Republican vice presidential nominee, would be making her first visit to Iowa since campaigning here last year for candidate John McCain, should she accept the invitation," Tom Beaumont writes in the Des Moines Register.

Talking baseball: the AFL-CIO has placed print ads in the Hill papers, with MLB players including LaTroy Hawkins, Torii Hunter, John Lannan, Andrew Miller, J.J. Putz, Jimmy Rollins, Mark Teixeira, Justin Verlander, Shane Victorino and Adam Wainwright endorsing the Employee Free Choice Act.

"It makes sure everyone plays by the same rules," the ad says. "That's as important in the workplace as it is in baseball."

Fine, but does Jill Biden dare where a Phillies hat Wednesday night? "First Lady Michelle Obama and Dr. Jill Biden will be in the stands at Yankee Stadium on Wednesday night for Game One of the World Series between the New York Yankees and the Philadelphia Phillies," ABC's Karen Travers and Yunji de Nies report.

The Kicker:

"I wanted women to still hold their heads up so I didn't want to shoot triple bogies every hole." — Melody Barnes, White House chief domestic policy adviser, to Maureen Dowd, after breaking the gender barrier in one of the president's foursomes.

"A lot of people are saying the polls don't look the way we want them to." — President Obama, not mentioning that some of those people are on the White House payroll, and are talking, anonymously, to The Washington Post about it.

For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note's blog . . . all day every day:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/

User Comments

It’s okay! The baucus bill in the senate is poop anyway. 2010 Elections are coming soon. Just 13 months away! We get rid of the yellow dog democrats that call themselves blue dogs along with more republicans. We do it right and go single payer. No more co pays, no more 10 thousand dollar a day ICUs, no more 75 thousand dollar prosthetic limbs. We will hopefully get a list of the politicians that need to be sent packing and we move on!

Posted by: rightbehind | October 28, 2009, 8:45 am 8:45 am

I hope the DNC is looking for replacements to run against the yellow dog democrats that call themselves blue dogs. I say cut them loose. They are barnacles. We don’t have long to wait to clean out more garbage. 2010 elections are just 13 months away and we got another 18 republican senate seats on the ballot! We know all of them need to be sent packing unless you believe in hedge funds, credit default swaps, derivatives, speculators, speculation, and bailouts. I say it time to call these dogs out and move on!

Posted by: rightbehind | October 28, 2009, 8:51 am 8:51 am

60 votes? Why? Just stick this healthcare obamination onto an appropriations bill and pass it with 51 votes. No GOP/Blue Dog/Joementum filibuster to worry about; no sweat. And Pelosi can push whatever she wants in the House.
The Republicans will scream, for a little while, but the media will hail Sen. Reid as a hero of the people. If the Republicans try to hold up anything in the Senate in protest, then the media will flood the airwaves 24/7 with charges of obstructionism and “party of No.” The Dems will lose a few seats in Congress in 2010 anyway, but they will still retain control. Then they can focus all their attention on passing Card Check and the Fairness Doctrine, and drive a stake through the heart of the GOP. Hey, you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.

Posted by: The Chicago Way | October 28, 2009, 9:01 am 9:01 am

rightbehind? yes elections are 13 months away but you might want to read the polls, the dems will be losing quite a few seats in both houses. The republicans are coming to save the day. NO GOVERNMENT OPTION!

Posted by: BRAD | October 28, 2009, 9:03 am 9:03 am

Just what part of “America has Spoken” does Reid not understand? We DO NOT want this, and yet Reid still insists on shoving it down our collective throats.
We cannot afford to even be spending any more time on this. If the Democrats want to sacrifice their precious power and positions, fine, I’ll say good riddens in 2010

Posted by: Kevin | October 28, 2009, 9:05 am 9:05 am

rightbehind. it must be nice to live in a fantasy world. You had better look at the pools, because Dems are in trouble and Reid will be the first to go.

Posted by: sammy | October 28, 2009, 9:07 am 9:07 am

rightbehind, you might want to take that poop of a bill, because in 2010 we clean house of all dems and repubs that go for these Obamanation bills. The people of this country, it is time to stand up, get rid of big government, and clean house. 2009 Governor races in VA and NJ are just of sign of things to come.

Posted by: Joe Schmo | October 28, 2009, 9:09 am 9:09 am

2010 – 2010 – 2010! Looking to clean and REFRESH the Senate and the HOUSE! We want someone in those seats who will HONESTLY, SINCERELY and EARNESTLY represent their constituents!

Posted by: Nancy | October 28, 2009, 9:10 am 9:10 am

Just for giggles. Do those of you in favor of this, not realize that we cannot afford it? That the Gov’t will manage to screw this up worse than any other country ever has?
Does it not matter that the majority of people want health care left alone? Or is it more important to simply “get the win”? What about the very survival of our country?
Ahhhh… never mind, see ya next year.

Posted by: Kevin | October 28, 2009, 9:11 am 9:11 am

So you folks here think the mid-term 2010 election is going to get you more Dem-wits? Ha! It’s going to be a blood bath, the American people are so angry at the Dems right now that they are about to be made the minority party for years, maybe DECADES, to come. I too look forward to the 2010 elections, but not for the reasons you have stated here. We are going to install a Conservative Congress and will start dismantling the Obama Socialist agenda brick by brick and send that 1-term moron back to Chicago, hopefully never to be heard from again. Maybe he and Jimmy Carter can sit around and talk about the “good old days” of their failed presidencies.

Posted by: Bill from Tennessee | October 28, 2009, 9:11 am 9:11 am

“”"no more 10 thousand dollar a day ICUs, no more 75 thousand dollar prosthetic limbs. “”"”"
Posted by: rightbehind
How, exactly is this legislation going to lower the cost of ICU’s or prosthetic limbs? I didn’t read that in this bill. I only read about a government subsidized insurance program. Please point ouot which page supports your facts so I can read it.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:17 am 9:17 am

rightbehind:
What are you basing this on?
“No more co pays, no more 10 thousand dollar a day ICUs, no more 75 thousand dollar prosthetic limbs.”
If you truly think a govt-run health program is good for America, you probably have no clue how many govt-run programs are doing badly. You probably get all of your news from Obama cheerleaders, but even Obama himself slips up once in a while and blurts out the truth. Like when he said the Postal Service is always having problems.
And Social Security, bankrupt. If you need further prooof, just look at my homestate, Michigan. Ever since Granholm got her patties in the tax pie, it has only gotten worse. Now that she’s run so many businesses out of the state with her unfriendly business climate, she wants to hike taxes even more!!! And to force the issue, she singlehandedly doubled the monetary cuts to grades K-12. Now she thinks lawmakers will be shamed into raising taxes, I guess.
Do you see a pattern here, rightbehind, or do you truly think more and bigger government is a good thing???

Posted by: MichiganBlues | October 28, 2009, 9:23 am 9:23 am

I can’t wait until 2010 when hopefully the socialists in washington will be kicked out of power and replaced with conservative capitalists.

Posted by: Dave | October 28, 2009, 9:25 am 9:25 am

The media is incredibly naive to believe that the Reid proposals is any more groundbreaking or important than, say, the Baucus bill. Both are just intermediary stops on the roads to a final reform bill.
Will a final Senate bill even include a public option? Who knows? Nothing is settled, and that’s hardly a disaster for the president.

Posted by: matt | October 28, 2009, 9:25 am 9:25 am

I am also looking forward to the 2010 elections. This time around conservatives are going to get out and vote because the government is too big, spends too much, and never gets anything right.

Posted by: Will | October 28, 2009, 9:28 am 9:28 am

I hope Reid rams the bill through the Senate with 51 votes. Talk about tearing this country apart. If the rules don’t work in your favor, change the rules, just like they did in Massachusetts when Kennedy died. This is how Revolutions start, one “bad decision” at a time.

Posted by: Mike Jones | October 28, 2009, 9:29 am 9:29 am

Got news for you conservatives or republicans or whatever you call yourselves these days. The local tea party in Cincinnati this weekend couldn’t even attract enough people to surround a city building. Their event was called we have you surrounded. Their plan was to surround the building of the local democratic congressman. Based on the video I seen the attendance surrounding even that one building was highly unlikely. Most are catching on that those in attendance are nut cases. There are over 2.1 million people that live within a 10 mile radius of that event. They also were at most exit ramps handing out flyer’s announcing the event 3 days before. The real tea party began more than 4 years ago. My prediction is the republicans are going to loose another 8 of the 18 senate seats on the ballot in 2010. GOP = RIP Just hope they replace some of those yellow dogs with real democrats.

Posted by: rightbehind | October 28, 2009, 9:37 am 9:37 am

Rick Klein wrote: “Fine, but does Jill Biden dare where a Phillies hat Wednesday night? ”
Rick, if you can’t even spell “wear” correctly, how can anyone ever take you seriously? What kind of crap passes for journalism (and journalists) these days?

Posted by: ricardo maxwell | October 28, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am

rightbehind:
What are you basing this on?
MichiganBlues >>>>>>
The same thing Obama is basing his statements on. Nothing. The Press has still to ASK the ultimatte question WHAT proposal or bill is Obama talking about? I can say I want health care that lowers cost and delivers more for less. SO WHAT.. The devil is always in the details. So far all the bills will RAISE premiums. Yeah RAISE EM according to the CBO. And one was already 250 BILLION off. Thats 1/3 the estimated total cost. The Press are still acting like Lap Dogs. They cant seem to get in there and really drive home the point that so far this administration has been a total pie in the sky failure.
Guess they never will since they bought into the lie. BUT there is hope. Even a hard cord liberal friend has now tired of Obama and his crew.

Posted by: ChicagoBob | October 28, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

Rightbehind. Do your homework. The removal of the 1939 Glass-Steagall Act paved the way for the destruction that followed. Republicans introduced it. Republicans passed it. It was a Democrat by the name of Bill Clinton who signed it into law. So if either party were so interested in their constituents it didn’t show that day. So why do you expect either party to show any interest now? It’s all about power to them and always has been.
The Chicago Way. Paving the way for even more political abuse and using quotes from Karl Marx is not the way to resolve this issue. Considering the wiz bang job the govt has done thus far on other programs. And considering that they are running a deficit of 1.7trillion and the national debt is 12 trillion and growing. Not to mention that the country is still in the middle of a recession (jobless recover my a$%, no such thing). I have to honestly say that we just can’t afford it.

Posted by: Larry | October 28, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

The real issue is not being addressed which is the high cost of healthcare.All this does is play a shell game with how we pay. Recently I spent 5 hours in the Hospital with Abdominal Pain. Ended up being diverticulitis. A CtScan and 2 Hours on IV antibiotics and I was on my way home. The actual payout by AETNA was almost $6000.00 based on their negotiated fees with the facility. Prices are too high and its not insurance companies at fault.

Posted by: Dennis D | October 28, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

rightbehind I ask again:
How, exactly is this legislation going to lower the cost of ICU’s or prosthetic limbs? I didn’t read that in this bill. I only read about a government subsidized insurance program. Please point ouot which page supports your facts so I can read it.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:45 am 9:45 am

You people are insane. 2010 elections are around the corner and it’s the democrats who are going to suffer terribly. Believe it or not, most people in this country still believe in a free market system. By the way, many of the problems we have today are because of DEMOCRATS and the stupid republicans who let them get away with crap like having home loan programs for people who can’t afford them. That is what started this recession. Obama is just putting the nail in the coffin with his communistic approach.

Posted by: Lori | October 28, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

How can we be sure of free and fair elections with ACORN receiving billions of our tax dollars and the New Black Panthers free to intimidate anyone they choose?

Posted by: ricardo maxwell | October 28, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

No one can comment on a bill that no one has read. To say you are going to vote for something that u haven’t read is disingenuous. The American people need to know the CBO score, how it effects the insurance we have now. Which Obama said if you have Health Insurance you can keep. Thats a lie. Our employers will opt out of any HC plan that is more expensive to them and go with a Government run plan that is supposedly cheaper. Another promise broken.

Posted by: karen | October 28, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am

rightbehind
I get a kick out of your colorful names for Democrats that don’t agree lock step with Pelosi and Reid. Blue dogs, yellow dogs, I think we should call people like Pelosi and Reiad “Old Dogs”. Are ya with me?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:47 am 9:47 am

“”"”Prices are too high and its not insurance companies at fault. “”"
Posted by: Dennis D
I agree 100%. Premiums are directly affected by health care costs, not the other way around! What part of this do our politicians not get?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:49 am 9:49 am

karen —- But they voted to fund the bill (one of the five). It’s like saying “we’re going to spend $1 trillion, we just haven’t decided on what yet”.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:51 am 9:51 am

The OBAMACARE issue will bring about a LAMEDUCK PRESIDENT by December 2010. It will also bring about Seats N Both Houses for; Libertarians/Constitutionalists/Independents to! (And) The DNC? Well, they’ve been digging themselves into a Death Nell Grave of the kind that could literally insure their Party becomes a weak Party by December 2010. Then, both Houses of Congress & the Executive will be forced to return to Founding Father’s Style Politics! (:>)

Posted by: CEPHAS JONES | October 28, 2009, 9:54 am 9:54 am

“”"”"Our employers will opt out of any HC plan that is more expensive to them and go with a Government run plan that is supposedly cheaper. “”"”"
Posted by: karen
This will immediately put a burden on the government system. As health care costs continue to rise, the government will have 2 options, 1) subsidize or 2) raise your rates. Without addressing any aspect of health care costs (and this bill doesn’t) how do we expect to lower costs and premiums? This is what our politicians don’t understand.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 9:54 am 9:54 am

Can someone please explain to me why Joe Lieberman wants to kill a Public Option in the bill while his own state, CT, has a public option put in place by their REPUBLICAN governor?

Posted by: tweet senators | October 28, 2009, 9:56 am 9:56 am

Everybody knows that this public option isn’t free right? There will be a charge to be on this option. $6000-13,000 a year, everybody knows this right? right? anybody?

Posted by: JJJ | October 28, 2009, 10:00 am 10:00 am

Mid-East: If Oil Corp Elites would simply drill elsewhere allover globe, and drive the price of the barrel down to $10.00 per barrel for 6 months; The whole Mid-East would be politically & militarily on it’s proverbial knees. Then, leave it that way for another 6 months, & whala! the whole warfare risk urgency would be over. Course that won’t happen. “Redistribution of Wealth”…that could sadly end in WWIII by 12/2012. If that happens; Nuclear Missles would be seen falling like stars from Heaven all over the Earth….Mayan Prophesy & Revelation of Saint John Prophesy. But…What Politico has ever listened in World’s History….Sadly.

Posted by: CEPHAS JONES | October 28, 2009, 10:01 am 10:01 am

These radical dems are learning that they are elected and not appointed for life. These dems who think they want to ram a plan down our throats that according to all anaysis will double the costs of health care are fools. These dems will be voted out. Reid who did not even stand up for Nevada when Obama told the world to not vacation there is history and he knows it. McKaskill who ruined politics in the state of missouri is also history. WE ARE YOUR BOSS AND YOU WILL BE FIRED.

Posted by: Jim Rod | October 28, 2009, 10:03 am 10:03 am

This is easy people! Force your representative to take a stance. Either for or against government run health care. Lets see where these dogs are after the 2010 elections. I predict those against will be seeking new employment. Let’s see just who is the majority. Not who claims to be. Come on 2010 elections! Lets go single payer and get rid of the worthless republican created phony baloney insurance market! They eat up 1 of every 3 dollars spent on health care and provide no service to the patient.

Posted by: rightbehind | October 28, 2009, 10:04 am 10:04 am

tweet senators — A public option will certainly cause the price tag to rise. The government only expects and has estimated 5% of the people will sign up. The GOP believes that number will be much higher. As health care costs rise, insurance premiums will also. The government would have to subsidize to keep the premiums down, or raise the rates to keep up with rising costs. The main reason for public option was for less expensive insurance. Rising health costs wll cause either the government to go over bedget subsidizing or the premiums to rise putting the burden on the payer. Either one isn’t good.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:04 am 10:04 am

The Insurance lobby and their paid shills the GOP, are the only ones who want to stop the Public Option– All their dire predictions aside– It works just fine in Ireland and France – Both of whom have both Private and Public Insurance!!
Just like we have Fedex and the Postal service — Just like we have Public education and Private education– The GOP fought Medicaid, Medicare, And Social Security, And also Seat belts in cars– The Party of Obstruction it seems only have money for war– In fact they’ve never seen a war they didn’t like– but anything that helps average Americans and their Corporate Masters send out the cash to demonize whatever will interfere with their profits–
GOP
Got Our Payola?

Posted by: brian | October 28, 2009, 10:06 am 10:06 am

CEPHAS JONES — Actually, if we the people in the USA would severely limit our consumption for just 2 months, oil supplies would rise so fast the price would drop like a rock. There’s no reason everyone in the US can’t lower consumption by 25% for the next 3 months.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:07 am 10:07 am

FIX THE MISTAKE! 2012

Posted by: George Washington | October 28, 2009, 10:07 am 10:07 am

Vote out all these career corrupt political scum like Reid who answer to the NEW WORLD ORDER.

Posted by: quail | October 28, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am

Reid really helped himself when he wrapped himself around Nancy Pelosi and then rubbed up on her…welcome to the Pervs Hall of Champions Harry!

Posted by: PeeWeeHerman | October 28, 2009, 10:12 am 10:12 am

brian— Have you seen the government run health care facilities in Europe? I lived in Europe for 18 years and many of the clinics and hospitals I saw had cement walls with no paint. Doctor’s offices felt similar to a cell without bars. I witnessed it in Italy, Spain, France and Germany. I also was in facilities in the UAE and they were similar. Our government awards contracts based on lowest bidder (most of the time) so what makes you think a government subsidized insurance company is going function correctly?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:13 am 10:13 am

The conservative backlash is going to be huge. This bill is dead. The American people are waking up to the fact that the elite in the mainstream media and other advocacy groups and the “community organizers” are working in concert to fleeece the nation’s workers. Key to this is creating a society where enough citizens and illegal aliens are kept under their control through various give-away programs that re-election is assured. The real untold story is how much of Obama’s stimulus $$$ went to buy off the lobbyists. Look up the Kaiser Foundation’s glowing report recommending the socialization of medicine then look up and find out about the 40 million in federal grant money they received over the past eight weeks!

Posted by: country cuz | October 28, 2009, 10:15 am 10:15 am

If Lieberman filibusters this bill (he’s welcome to vote against it after cloture), then the Democrats need to kick him out of the caucus immediately. It has to be VERY CLEAR that the Democrats DO NOT have 60 seats in Congress. Lieberman campaigned for John McCain; if he blocks an up-or-down vote on healthcare reform, then he is more Republican than Democrat.
Democrats should just admit they have 59 seats in the Senate and Republicans have 41.

Posted by: jhw539 | October 28, 2009, 10:17 am 10:17 am

No more CO-PAYS???
The point of co-pay isn’t to make you pay anything at all, which is why it’s like $25.
The point is to prevent all those nut-cases from going to the doctor with the sniffles every other day (trust me, they exist. I know a general phy.)
If the public option had no co-pay, health-care costs would sky-rocket.
You have no understanding of the health care system. It’s apparent the writers of this bill have no clue either.

Posted by: lee | October 28, 2009, 10:17 am 10:17 am

The United States is broke, traders and countries are dumping dollars and Obama was to print trillions more for health care. The Manchurian Marxist Candidate at work. Who programmed him?

Posted by: Texasguy01 | October 28, 2009, 10:18 am 10:18 am

“Just for giggles. Do those of you in favor of this, not realize that we cannot afford it? That the Gov’t will manage to screw this up worse than any other country ever has?”
Kevin | Oct 28, 2009 9:11:06 AM
We can’t afford the status quo. The documented fact is that the US spends TWICE AS MUCH per capita as the average first world nation, for no better outcome in life expectancy. We cannot afford to continue that waste.
And I believe the government set up by the Founding Fathers is the best on Earth, represents the people of the most powerful and prosperous free nation mankind has ever seen, and that it CAN do at least as well as France, or Switzerland, or even Italy in providing a limited, self-supporting public option insurance plan. And I am disgusted at how quickly the hard Right has embraced the “America sucks!” mantra; it was pathetic coming from the extreme left, and it is worse to see it coming from mainstream Republicans.

Posted by: jhw539 | October 28, 2009, 10:21 am 10:21 am

The MSM keeps second guessing and analyzing on the process to no avail. While missing the big picture.
The good thing is that HCR is now the argument on the nature of public option that will be in the bill. That’s a step in the right direction.

Posted by: New Wave | October 28, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am

Instead of ending a 64 year old policy that prevents Americans from choosing their own health insurance, like we do car insurance (funny, because President Obama compares the requirement to having car insurance to being required to have health insurance…go figure), the government wants to “fix” the problem they created with a government-run health insurance option (aka, Public Option)…and people are buying this?!?! Think about this: How can private insurance companies who have to MAKE money, compete with the Government who has to SPEND money…OUR MONEY!…and call that competition?!?! The Government can offer a plan that is far below the actual cost and cover the rest with our tax money…while insurance companies would go broke trying to compete! That is how competition DIES!!! It’s basic economics, if you can add and subtract.

Posted by: Gary | October 28, 2009, 10:27 am 10:27 am

I don’t know who you are, Rick Klein, but if you report the news on ABC as if you were an objective journalist, you are doing everyone a disservice.

Posted by: D | October 28, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am

jhw539 — I agree something has to be done to curb health care costs. Do you really believe a government subsidized insurance company will actually do this?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am

Keep dreaming right wingers about 2010 aint happening with 20 percent of the country admits to being a Republican/Conservative thats not enough to win elections. The people see the Republicans offer nothing but NO NO NO No solutions NO Compromising nothing nada zip zilch!

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 28, 2009, 10:31 am 10:31 am

Here is part of the “Big Lie.” The government does not “negotiate” anything…they state and demand the price or terms they will accept. If this plan is approved, soon that giant wailing sound you hear is hundreds of thousands of people waiting in line for rationed care because hospitals will go bust, older doctors will leave the practice in frustration and young, bright intelligent people will not become physicians. They will choose not to because national health care will not pay enough to amortize the huge loans most young physicians incur for the minimum 12 years of post-secondary education required.

Posted by: CodeWarrior | October 28, 2009, 10:33 am 10:33 am

IS THIS WHAT YOU VOTED FOR?????
RHETORIC – CANDIDATE OBAMA REPEATEDLY PROMISED OPEN, TELEVISED HEALTH CARE NEGOTIATIONS:
• November 2007: “We are going to have a big table, and everybody is going to be invited, labor, employers, doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, patient advocate groups. The drug and insurance companies, they’ll all get a seat at the table. … And we will work on this process publicly. It’ll be on C-SPAN. It will be streaming over the ‘Net.” (Town hall meeting with Google employees, Mountain View, CA, 11/14/07)
• January 2008: “That’s what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are.” (Democratic presidential debate, 1/31/08)
• March 2008: “But here’s the difference: I’m going to do it all on C-SPAN so that the American people will know what’s going on.” (Town hall meeting, Lancaster, PA, 3/31/08)
• August 2008: “When I come together around this health care system, I’m going to do it all in the open. I’m going to do it on C-SPAN.” (Town hall meeting, Albuquerque, NM, 8/18/08)
• August 2008: “I’m going to have all the negotiations around a big table. … We’ll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN.” (Town hall meeting, Chester, VA, 8/21/08)
REALITY – “PROMISE BROKEN,” “ANYTHING BUT REVOLUTIONARY,” DEALS “STRUCK IN SECRET:”
• Politifact.com Says “Promise Broken.” “Obama promised — repeatedly — an end to closed-door negotiations and complete openness for the health care talks. But he hasn’t delivered. Instead of open talks of C-SPAN, we’ve gotten more of the same — talks behind closed doors at the White House and Congress. … We rate this Promise Broken.” (Politifact.com, 7/10/09)
• “The Secrecy Of The Proceedings … Is Disturbing.” “All of a sudden, we don’t know what’s being done — or when, or by whom. …[T]he secrecy of the proceedings, particularly given where we’ve come from in the previous few months, is disturbing — as is the lack of diversity in voices shaping the final product. There are no Republicans in the room. If any other Members of Congress have been invited to participate, we’ll never know it. …[T]he sudden silence from the Senate seems like a slap at all the stakeholders who have invested so much in the health care debate — not to mention the taxpayers who will be asked to foot the bill for whatever reform plan does get adopted.” (Roll Call editorial, 10/21/09)
• “Closed Negotiations … Anything But Revolutionary.” “But now, as a Senate vote on health-care legislation nears, those negotiations are occurring in a setting that is anything but revolutionary in Washington: Three senators are working on the bill behind closed doors.” (The Washington Post, 10/18/09)
• “The Big Deals Have Been Struck in Secret.” “Obama campaign vow of public debate on health care fading. Campaigning for president, Barack Obama said repeatedly that any overhaul of the health care system should be negotiated publicly and televised for all to see. Throughout this year’s negotiations, however, the big deals have been struck in secret. … The notion of televising negotiations behind a health care revamp was so central to Obama’s campaign promises of change and openness … that it became part of his stump speech as he traveled the country in 2007 and 2008.” (McClatchy, 7/10/09)

Posted by: pauldia | October 28, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am

IFRICHAR
The Goverment Public option will force the Insurance companies to COMPETE! They have no competiton right now they are cartels when you have to compete you lower cost!

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 28, 2009, 10:35 am 10:35 am

For those of you worried that we can’t afford this, don’t worry, we are just going to continue taking more and more away from the people that actually work for a living (except, of course, those hard-working actors, rock stars and other Hollywood celebrities — they get to keep all of their money because they’re artists!).
And by the way, rightbehind, most of those hedge fund, credit default swap, derivative, speculator types that got bailed out are democrats!
That’s the democrat way!

Posted by: Always Right | October 28, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am

Well lookie loookie all the Fox News lies on here boy you people sure can be fooled easily! hahahaha CODE WARRIOR = Sean Hannitys talking points!

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 28, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am

Gary — AND we still haven’t addressed actual health care costs. SO, as they continue to rise, will the government raise the premium or subsidize it? That’s the question.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:42 am 10:42 am

ANGIE IN PA —- It’s not the GOP you have to worry about, it’s the Independents. That’s who actually got Obama in. There will be a huge shake up very soon and the loudest party will be Independents.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am

“Trolling for votes”
Reid IS a troll – a dishonest, disgusting, disingenuous, arrogant, holier-than-thou troll, worse than the ugly old trolls in the fairy tales who hide under bridges and attack/shake down good people.

Posted by: Mary | October 28, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am

The supporters of single payer do not care that it cannot be done financially. They are the same who think they ‘deserve’ food, water, and a happy life. You have the right to pursue a happy life, not have it given to you.

Posted by: dillholeddemo | October 28, 2009, 10:44 am 10:44 am

“”"The Goverment Public option will force the Insurance companies to COMPETE! “”"”"
Posted by: ANGIE IN PA
You do realize they are “competing” against our tax dollars? Insurance companies only have a 5% profit margin max. The government premiums will eliminate the private insurers profit margins, which causes them to go out of business. So please tell me how this government subsidized insurance company is going to lower actual health care costs.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 10:49 am 10:49 am

Look, they want us to be like that great superpower known as France. If we were just more like France, America would be a better country right? So everyone act like frenchmen.

Posted by: Christine B | October 28, 2009, 10:49 am 10:49 am

No matter what Obama and the Democrats propose – the American taxpayer loses out.
Defeat Obama’s Socialist plans – call your Senator and DEMAND that he abandon the Public Option.

Posted by: One_American | October 28, 2009, 10:51 am 10:51 am

Angie In PA: If you want competition, the Public Option won’t create it…it will ELIMINATE competition. Why are you not in favor of ending anti-trust exemption law that the Government created that denies competition? You want them to fix the problem they created in 1945, with more Government that doesn’t work as advertised? What is wrong with you?

Posted by: Gary | October 28, 2009, 10:52 am 10:52 am

For the life of me I don’t understand why they want to pursue a policy which apx 60% of the population opposes? I hope these arrogant morons pay dearly at the polls…folks keep an eye on your senators and congressman and if they vot against your wishes vote against them…maybe they will get the message? people and their wishes do matter and these self righteous politicians need to understand what democracy and a representative form of government is

Posted by: phillysmart | October 28, 2009, 10:52 am 10:52 am

“Keep dreaming right wingers about 2010 aint happening with 20 percent of the country admits to being a Republican/Conservative thats not enough to win elections. The people see the Republicans offer nothing but NO NO NO No solutions NO Compromising nothing nada zip zilch!Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | Oct 28, 2009 10:31:56 AM” Angie how many times do people have to explain this on simple fact ! to get it to register in your small Liberal Brain…Democrats don’t need 1 Republican vote to pass this. Nada zip zilch! If this is such a great bill why are they so afraid to publish the final version of the bill online for 72 hours before a vote? What are they hiding from the American people. So much for Transparency! Also 2010 will happen Republicans lead in the Generic ballot and have went from down 6 points when Obama was Elected to up 5 points on recent polls. Fact Polls now show the American people trust Republicans more on the the top 10 issues! And as for 20% of the country admits to being Republican/Conservative. Check again that number is closer to 40% and the Democrat or liberal is close to 20% leaving about 40% saying they are Moderate, And if you look at the Demographic where Obama is losing the most support it is with this last group.

Posted by: batesba74 | October 28, 2009, 10:52 am 10:52 am

HITF can you call it expanding health coverage by simply forcing people who can’t afford it to buy it and then fining them if they don’t?

Posted by: Jack Tanksley | October 28, 2009, 10:54 am 10:54 am

I agree something has to be done to curb health care costs. Do you really believe a government subsidized insurance company will actually do this?
lfrichar | Oct 28, 2009 10:29:59 AM
A government subsidized insurance company has not been proposed. Subsidies go to individuals rather than to the public option company – this is a CRITICAL distinction, since if the company got the subsidy there would be no fair market competition to drive down costs.
The last public option analyzed by the CBO estimated the public option would only cover 10% of workers by 2019. The reason the coverage is so low is because the public option is not subsidized – the only way it will be cheaper than private is if it is more efficient, different coverage, etc.

Posted by: jhw539 | October 28, 2009, 10:58 am 10:58 am

The chance of Harry Reid getting reelected in 2010 is down to zero, after Obama warned people receiving TARF money to stay away from Las Vegas for convention and a pro Green film on main stream channel depicted Las Vegas as a deserted city by mid 21 century.

Posted by: austin | October 28, 2009, 10:58 am 10:58 am

The Op -Out is a SCAM; States that choose to “Opt-Out” still have to pay the taxes each year…it is a SCAM!!! But what do you expect from the Democrats and Harry Reid..they are so full of BS!!!!

Posted by: Peter Smith | October 28, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am

everyone says to kick out the blue dogs… why? If they keep their word and do not vote for these terrible health reform bills then shouldn’t they be rewarded by letting them keep their jobs? Why punish them when they did the right thing

Posted by: Alice | October 28, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am

We are boycotting Las Vegas until Reid is out. SF, too, until Pelosi is out. Hit them with our pocketbook. Tea party Americans are crazy folks who work and have an income. We will use it effectively.
Texas Big Dog

Posted by: TX Big Dog | October 28, 2009, 11:09 am 11:09 am

Angie in Pa
All you ever say to anyone who opposes you is that he or she is full of “fox news lies”. How about you start listing some of those lies? You never produce any facts and/or counter evidence to support your liberal ideas.
You have obviously drank the liberal “America sucks” kool-aid a looooong time ago.
Ask yourself these questions (as all liberal socialists should)…
Why do you want elites in washington telling you where to go to the doctor, what kind of car to drive, what to eat, where to go to school, how to heat/cool your home? Are you a robot who needs ordering around?
FYI- none of the elites EVER live by the rules they set for us common folks. Barry and michelle will always drive SUV’s and live in mansions, while simultaneously blasting wealthy people.

Posted by: Dave | October 28, 2009, 11:11 am 11:11 am

if this abomination passes and is force down our throats it will be another nail in the coffin of this country. the congress is not listening to the people and haven’t been for a long time. the government has no business telling us we have to have health insurance and we cannot seek and pay for services on our own.

Posted by: mj | October 28, 2009, 11:13 am 11:13 am

Issue
Democrats vs Republicans
Health Care
40% 46%
Education
38% 43%
Social Security
37% 45%
Taxes
35% 50%
Economy
35% 49%
Abortion
35% 47%
Immigration
33% 40%
Nat’l Security
31% 54%
Iraq
31% 50%
Gov’t Ethics
29% 33%

Posted by: nobama | October 28, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

the Democrats are not even real democrats they are far left wing liberal lunatics. we need to stand up and defend the Constitution. the people in charge are bound and determined to take from those that have and give to those that have not. what is next after health care?? are they going to try to take MY retirement money and distribute it equally to those that did not plan for retirement???!!!

Posted by: mj | October 28, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am

What does Dirty Harry Reid have to lose?
He is done next November anyway!

Posted by: No Common Sense in DC | October 28, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am

If you Libs think for one minute that the Dems are if office for the people you are kidding yourselves. They are power hungry crooks hell bent on securing their power at the expense of the American people. They will lie and cheat to get their way and the GOP is nothing but a bunch of spineless cowards. 2010 elections will be here soon and I hope the crooked Libs and spineless GOP RINOS are ejected for true conservatives.

Posted by: Jake | October 28, 2009, 11:20 am 11:20 am

“…does Jill Biden dare WEAR….?

Posted by: RLS | October 28, 2009, 11:30 am 11:30 am

“”"”The reason the coverage is so low is because the public option is not subsidized – the only way it will be cheaper than private is if it is more efficient, different coverage,etc. “”"
Posted by: jhw539
As I said before, make no mistake this is a givernment subsidized insurance company if they are paying for 1 person to be covered. Public Option is not subsidized yet. Once the cost of health care goes up that leaves them with 2 options, raise rates or subsidize to keep it where you promised. Since when have you witnessed a government program running more efficient than a private one?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 11:32 am 11:32 am

folks a lot is being written about the 2010 elections and my sense is the dems will suffer both on the fact that historically midterms have not been good for the party in power and because Obama has been so radical so inept that people are starting to get worried about this novice…he is walking all the dems off a cliff…but as you see with this health care bill he does not care about what is good for America or what the people Want he simply cares about his agenda…whats scary is the other democarts in congress blindly following him …I didn’t realize my party was covertly supporting an anti american socialist agenda that spells disater..redistribute wealth to the cities and unproductive…I think they will hear what the voters want in 2010 but I don’t underestimate the campaigning skills of Obama which is the one thing he does well..there are just too many stupid people that will vote for him because he is black…or speaks well…or because he is a democrat…or they hate success…no matter how detrimental it is to them

Posted by: phillysmart | October 28, 2009, 11:33 am 11:33 am

jhw539 — I will reword my initial question: “How does a government subsidized insurance program actually lower health care costs”? Example: The government builds their program and has 50 million people in it. How will that lower the cost of someone going in and getting a catscan or an MRI? All this plan might lower (initially) is your premium.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am

Just look at Urbana/Champaign IL for the furture of health care.
The only people getting priority to receive Swine Flu shots are people who are low income. So it shows that people who are independent and work hard and are responsible will be the ones punished in any government run health care. They are the people to smart and educated to led around like pigs going to slaughter.

Posted by: Diane | October 28, 2009, 11:37 am 11:37 am

I cant speek for Amy in PA but the reason I say Fox Lies is because I watch MSNBC and they are always unbiased and tell it like it is. And they tell me how Biased Fox is.

Posted by: Fauxlies | October 28, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Posted by: Fauxlies | Oct 28, 2009 11:41:13 AM. Are you serious?

Posted by: batesba74 | October 28, 2009, 11:43 am 11:43 am

Lets get something straight…this is NOT about health care reform…its about transfering power to government so that working people can pay for non working people…its about reparations for slavery…its about socialism over capitalism…its about all the evil white people taking care of everyone that was unjustly treated in America…its not about health care

Posted by: phillysmart | October 28, 2009, 12:00 pm 12:00 pm

I agree with Rightbehind. Ram this thing through. We still control of 75% of the stimulas dollars to hand out in 2010. Which will buy a lot of votes in 2010.
Dave

Posted by: Demnum1 | October 28, 2009, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm

Demnum1 — I certainly hope you are not serious.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm

VOTE #45 IN 2012!!!

Posted by: ACORN | October 28, 2009, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm

Demnum1
Ram it passed, damn what the public wants , they dont matter right–no room for open debate

Posted by: plopsdad | October 28, 2009, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm

Although I get the sense that a few of you are waking up, I also feel like some of you STILL do not get it! Repubs or Demos will continue to tear down your freedoms and liberties! Some of you still think that if the demos are doing it wrong that the repubs will do it right…WRONG! BOTH TEAMS ARE USING THE SAME PLAYBOOK! If you really want REAL change (ie no more corporate interests ruling everything) YOU NEED TO VOTE FOR INDEPENDENTS! Use the web, find a candidate who resonates with you in thought and deed, AND VOTE FOR THEM!!! Voting for the lesser of two evils is still VOTING FOR EVIL!!! The only reason indies don’t win more elections is because the majority of Americans are more interested in voting in favor of their “party” rather than voting their CONSCIENCE!!!! Vote your conscience America, I know you still have one! Vote your party, and you may lose, if you vote your conscience YOU ALWAYS WIN!!!
-Oz

Posted by: Ozlanthos | October 28, 2009, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm

Since when have you witnessed a government program running more efficient than a private one?
Posted by: lfrichar | Oct 28, 2009 11:32:53 AM
_______________________
Are you talking about a for-profit business?
I’m sure if a fire dept or police dept were run for profit, they could pick and chose who they serve, or do not serve…thereby increasing their profit margin.
Why don’t any of you base conservatives [including the ones who claim they're Independents] scream and yell that these services should go free market and unregulated?
Why? fire, rescue, police services are social responsibilities, for the social good. so is medicine & healthcare. that’s what makes us ‘civilized’.
a majority of what’s left of the GOP, Rush & other billionaires want to keep making huge profits at the expense of the illness of US citizens.
you base conservative parrots never go beyond spinning a fed talking point to ask questions or see the bigger picture. Calling names, blaming immigrants and insulting the informed and educated is what appeals to you, not rationality and reason.

Posted by: Father John | October 28, 2009, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm

Some talk here about the health insurance providers selling in a non competitive market including the fact they do not sell across state lines.
The reason the Federal government passed laws prohibiting health insurance providers from selling across state lines is because of what we, in the health profession, call “No Issue” states. Several states, inc. NY have passed legislation that prohibits any insurance seller from refusing anyone health insurance. That means they must take all who wish to purchase a policy including the clinically obese, the heavy drinkers, the smokers, and the drug users. The result is that ALL policies increase in cost. By prohibiting individuals and insurers from buying or selling across state lines, they prevent a healthy person finding a cheaper policy in another state.
The Democrats are trying to draw an analogy between their health plan and current auto policies, which all states require in some form or another. Who among you, having an excellent accident, ticket and claim free driving record wishes to be placed in the high risk group of the young drivers, ticket getting drivers, or accident prone drivers. Are you so altruistic you wish to pay three to five times more for your auto policy? That is what the current bills will force one to do with their health insurance policy. The healthy will pay premiums 100% to 200% higher than they would normally pay without state or federal interference and regulation
That is exactly what has happened in the “No Issue” states. New York’s health insurance policy premiums jumped a WOPPING 42% THE FIRST YEAR the law was implemented. They now are over 70% higher than before the “No Issue” law passed. Maine and Massachusetts are facing similar HUGE increases since legislatively becoming “No Issue” states.
Those of us who take decent care of ourselves SHOULD NOT BE FORCED BY FIAT to pay for those who do not. That is what is fair, not some altruistic poppycock about it being our responsibility to take care of adults who choose not to take care of them selves.

Posted by: Fldoctor | October 28, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm

Father John — I was asking a simple question whether it be profit or non-profit. We pay for certain services due to the sheer size of this country (fire rescue, police). How can you say private companies “compete” when our tax dollars will pay for this government run insurance scam and private insurers need a profit margin to stay in power? Our tax dollars will cover the administrative costs. Example: The post office is only required to break even every year. How much is that stamp costing us now? Does it not feel like they are raisning their rates at a dramatic pace just to break even? Can we say our post office runs as efficient as UPS or FedEx?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:28 pm 12:28 pm

Father John — You need to rethink your “parrot” remark and read what you wrote. Sounds like Democratic sound bites parrotboy.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:29 pm 12:29 pm

Fldoctor — Excellent post!

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

Why do you liberals trust the government so completely? I collected welfare and food stamps until I could get off them and I will tell you I saw fraud not only from the recepients but from those within the system – the biggest thiefs are the insiders. I was the rare example that wanted to get off the system – I can tell you the majority had no intention of getting off – how would they pay for their crack? If I did not know human nature I would live in la la land and believe the government could run ANYTHING! efficiently, but I have experiance in the real world and POWER CORRUPTS! Didn’t the communes in the 60′s teach you that the utopia ideas don’t work? No runaway health care costs with government running the show? Get out of your dream world!!!

Posted by: cathy | October 28, 2009, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

“President Obama today will trumpet his administration’s efforts to slash wasteful projects from defense spending when signing the Defense Authorization bill approving the Pentagon’s funding blueprint,” Christina Bellantoni reports for Talking Points Memo. “At 2:30 in the White House Rose Garden Obama will sign the measure authorizing 2010 spending of $680 billion. The president will laud Defense Secretary Robert Gates for helping him remove funding for F-22 fighter jets and a new fleet of presidential helicopters.”
********
They take out F-22 figher jets, but they ADD IN 10 C-17′s at a cost of 2,500,000,000 for Nancy and her gang. What is wrong with this picture? I’m sure neither Obama or the MSM will bring up this little fact.
I can’t wait to see what they added to healthcare reform.

Posted by: wheresmymoney | October 28, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm

If you use the 51 vote option, then it will be used against you in the future, thats why no one has done it before. They are afraid to start that ball going back and forth. You better really want what ever you use it for…

Posted by: Jerry | October 28, 2009, 12:37 pm 12:37 pm

Father John — For the record, a government run insurance program will have zero effect on health care costs. I have posed several questions on my posts that have been left unanswered. I am for regulating costs on: medical tuitions, pharmaceuticals, litigation, medical procedures and equipment. I am for cuttiing fraud, waste and abuse in welfare, unemployment, disability, medicare, HUD and any other government handout program. I am for existing laws for illegals immigrants, deport. Obama had one idea of sending them home and then creating a legalized work program. I would expand on that by they would have to have a clean record and remain that way for 7 years, then become a legal citizen. It appears he is leaning towards amnesty. I believe doing all of these things will give us a strong base to support serious health care reform. Here’s my question again: “how does creating a government run insurance program actually lower HEALTH CARE costs?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm

“”"”They take out F-22 figher jets, but they ADD IN 10 C-17′s at a cost of 2,500,000,000 for Nancy”"”
Posted by: wheresmymoney
Nancy has to keep Boeing happy.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 28, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

Yes, I came across this article via a link on Drudge, SO SHOOT ME! I might as well admit my CRIME right up front because the comment I’m about to make would be precisely the same as an admission of guilt anyway! I simply wanted to comment on the irony of the photo of Reid that was “gracing” the top of Drudge when I clicked on this link. It’s a DOOZIE!! Blackmail caliber!! Yes, it’s THAT good! It shows Harry with his hands clasped in a perfect praying position, and get this — HIS EYES ARE CLOSED as if he were actually, well, you know! Is that rich or what?!? First, we have a dem praying. What are the odds of THAT?!? 50 MILLION to one?!? Secondly, he’s from NEVADA — a state KNOWN for its’ heavy CHAPEL-going populace. CHAPEL mind you, not CHURCH! As in The Chapel of Elvis in the Rising Moon of Universal Meditation and Medication. It is a photo I shall not soon forget. The stuff that Pulitzer Prizes are made of!! If Obama can win the peace prize for unassisted- breathing, than certainly this brilliant photographer deserves the Pulitzer!!

Posted by: Proxima C | October 28, 2009, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm

Democrats are all done in 2010. Na na na na, hey hey hey… good bye!

Posted by: Jim | October 28, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

What we really need is Tort reform to allow doctors to become doctors again. They all practice defensive medicine. Causing cost to rise because you are paying for test you never needed. When you take your care to get it fixed you pay for exactly what you need and nothing else. Why pay for brakes when all you needed was an oil change. The other thing we need to have is freedom in the market. Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines just like auto insurance. That is what will truly cause “choice and competition.”

Posted by: Freedom isnt free! | October 28, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm

Father John
You socialist liberals are the ones who have lost touch. Our founding fathers are rolling over right now in their graves because of the power washington is attempting to get.
Had Jesus lived in a free capitalist country, he probably would have told the poor there to quit buying cigarettes, lottery tickets, drugs, alcohol, fast food, and to go and get a job.
But Jesus lived under roman rule, where tyranny was part of everyday life and no one was free. People were poor through no fault of their own.
Unlike here in America, where 90% of our pot-bellied poor people are just plain STUPID. The food kitchen patrons in my city that i see everyday look like they easily could be canidates on The Biggest Loser TV show.

Posted by: BO Stinks | October 28, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

KILL THE BILL!!!

Posted by: Diane | October 28, 2009, 12:52 pm 12:52 pm

Does anyone here posting comments as to how a national health plan will REDUCE costs have even the basic idea of what the study of economics is?
If we increase the number of people demanding health care by providing care to those who cannot afford it, and by FORCING those who choose not to buy insurance to have to purchase insurance, we increase the DEMAND for health care. Increase in demand without a similar increase in health care providers will lead to higher prices.
Oh, you say the providers will not be able to raise prices? The Federal government will control all prices. Well then, we will instantly have greater demand than supply. Guess what? THAT WILL AUTOMATICALLY BE SLOVED BY RATIONING HEALTH CARE. The government will make the decisions as to who gets the care, not individuals, physicians and other providers.
Furthermore, providers will not jump in and build new health facilities unless they can profit from the risk. We will face shortages for years…until the federal and state governments build facilities at our expense and allow them to run at tremendous losses.

Posted by: Fldoctor | October 28, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

FLdoctor, you are on it 100%. The people who want this to pass have no idea how supply and demand works or how the Federal gov. does nothing to help the economy. They only suck money out of it.

Posted by: Freedom isnt free! | October 28, 2009, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm

Reid, Obama and Pelosi know what is best for the American people, that is why they have been elected to political office. And once they were elected they stopped listening to the people who voted for them. They are the true “rogues” of contemporary politics, not Sarah Palin.

Posted by: Temple62 | October 28, 2009, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm

Posted by lfrichar – I am for cuttiing fraud, waste and abuse in welfare, unemployment, disability, medicare, HUD and any other government handout program.
*******
In case you haven’t heard, we are now also supplying CELL PHONES. Safelink

Posted by: wheresmymoney | October 28, 2009, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm

Why aren’t the Democrats even considering the Republican plan?
It would lower the cost of health insurance and medication.
It would lower the amount of award that attorneys can collect from medical lawsuits (and cap awards) in order to bring down insurance costs.
Every American would be permitted to count their health insurance as a tax write off.
Low income Americans would be allowed to check a box that would allow their refund to pay for their family’s health insurance.
Most importantly, there would be NO TAX INCREASE.
Unfortunately, the Democrat’s plan does not pay for health insurance…at all. It forces all Americans, under the threat of financial penalty and even jail, to buy health insurance. It is unimaginably expensive and cannot work in its present form (because it would be even more expensive). It is a glorified socialist system — with Big Brother Government ready to pounce upon Americans who cannot purchase insurance. It results in a huge tax increase and “fee” that will be paid for by all Americans at a time when we need every dollar.
Why not put this thing to rest…at least for a year…and come back next time with a much better and less hastily created set of plans? Unfortunately, this is yet another cleverly disguised failure of the Barack Obama Administration. He obviously thinks that he, with his arrogant liberal ego, knows better than most Americans.

Posted by: Mireya Ayala | October 28, 2009, 1:20 pm 1:20 pm

Reid is on the way out the door – his State has made that clear – and he doesn’t mind what other Dems he takes down with him. Just imagine a State opt out – where the Republican Governor’s opt out – which tanks their medicaid (temporarily – as Wash is NEVER going to permanently hurt their VOTER BASE)… The Republican Governors are going to point their fingers DIRECTLY at the Dem Congressmen and Senators that voted for this option and say “don’t look at us – these are the folks that did this to you poor people”… It is handing the Republicans a HUGE boon for knocking out any Dem in any State that opts out and gets penalized if they do so. And Reid has not even figured that out yet!

Posted by: socialistink | October 28, 2009, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm

Posted by: Garson | October 28, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm

Harry Reid is toast. Let him dig his hole a little deeper, it’s ok. He will get what’s coming to him next November. Nanzi Pelosivitch will keep her seat, because the uber-wealthy elitists in San Fran will vote for her, up until she gets brain cancer from all the botox. The snobs in San Fran live in gated mansions, they don’t care that illegals have bankrupted the state. They don’t care if legal Americans (who pay taxes) have lost their jobs to illegals, who don’t pay taxes. The schools and hospitals are bankrupt- however, when you’re worth $50 million$ +, you don’t worry about things like that. Goodbye Dingy Harry, Bawney Fwank, Chris Dodd, Corzine, you’re finished. But don’t worry Raines, Waters, Jackson-Lee, Rangel; you’re safe. It’s a wonderful time to be a black bigoted Marxist. I pray the Black Caucus is dismantled, the members worship Castro, Chavez,Mao and Che, by their own admission. When the race w h o r e s are FINALLY put out of business, America will join together, as it should. What a shame that the Left has created such race and class envy. Divide and conquer has always been their motto. Can’t wait for the whole lot of them to DROP DEAD.

Posted by: Proudly_Conservative | October 28, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm

Clearly Senator Reid never saw his latest bill passing with 60 votes. He was hoping to get back into the good graces of the left.

Posted by: Speakinuptoo | October 28, 2009, 1:37 pm 1:37 pm

I have said this many times, but it bears repeating. This is not about health care reform, it is about health insurance reform and the difference is staggering. If the welfare of Americans were the concern of those in power, then the cost of care would be the first thing addressed, followed by a repeal of the baseless restriction on availability of inter-state competition between the insurance companies. Simple, basic solutions, which actually focus on the problems in the system, should always be the first ones applied to a problem. Instead, we are going to find new ways to finance the existing, out of control, medical care industry. Typical, pathetic and frightening as he** for our children. But hey, sorry to interrupt your Dem/Rep bashing, you can now go back to glorifying the two sides of the coin that has put all of us in this position. Sad…

Posted by: Warren Henderson | October 28, 2009, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

Watching the various family feuds play out in the Democrat party – far-left vs. moderate, ‘pass something just to say we did’ vs. ‘go down in a blaze of glory fighting for public option’, etc – is like a political version of watching some deceased lottery winner’s relatives fighting over the estate.
The radical left’s ignorance about health care leaves me speechless. I’m a physician myself – one of those dreaded specialists, in fact. To be specific, I’m an anesthesiologist. To hear our president speak, specialists are greedy (cf. the comment about unnecessary tonsillectomies to pad surgeons’ wallets). Do I perform unnecessary anesthetics to improve my pay? Heh, that would be funny. “Mrs. Jones, you haven’t any surgery planned for today, but we’d like to give you a general anesthetic anyway.” Ludicrous, I know, but that’s in effect what the president is saying. And this is the man who says he has all the answers?
In a word: EEK!

Posted by: Charles H. | October 28, 2009, 1:48 pm 1:48 pm

Spare me the photo ops of Obama-Biden at the World Series. I’ll listen on the radio instead.

Posted by: Rob | October 28, 2009, 2:16 pm 2:16 pm

Hairy Reed the small scourge of the DNC is having a lot of trouble trying to herd those Blue Dog Cats, no doubt his reputation for fomenting weezelism is getting in his way along with his lack of ethic.
Face it Hairy, the majority of the voters are telling you that if you try and go over their head your party majority is going to get a major reduction and all that fatbutt money you live on is going by the wayside as you get tossed outside where you will stay….You FOX tongue waggers quit making fun of Hairy and his gang.

Posted by: ONTIME | October 28, 2009, 2:40 pm 2:40 pm

Anyone who votes FOR forcing this down the throats of Americans who have made it very clear they DON’T want Govt run healthcare can count on being voted out of office in the next election cycle!

Posted by: Mamasauras | October 28, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm

You simply cannot claim a right to health care and also not claim a right to a portion of someone else’s life.
None of you have a right to demand that I pay for your health care. You do not have a right to anything of mine.
Only deadbeats and parasites support this health care Bravo Sierra. Self sufficient people do not.

Posted by: esorcire | October 28, 2009, 2:49 pm 2:49 pm

Reject any health care takeover plan they offer. They are trying to ruin the greatest system in the history of man. No one is refused treatment at the emergency room.

Posted by: mitch | October 28, 2009, 2:56 pm 2:56 pm

This is not about health care. Do you really think this government gives a damn about your health?
This is about control of you, your choices, your liberty, your property, and your very life. Why are so many people willing to trade the best health care the world has ever known for the promise of a dumb, inexperienced, ideologue?
Oh, and I am boycotting Nevada until the good people there have the sense to vote out that joke of a senator and send him back to Reno to be a black-jack dealer.

Posted by: esorcire | October 28, 2009, 3:08 pm 3:08 pm

“escort”; You say: “the best health care the world has ever known…” (???)
___________
What planet do you come from? A MINIMAL AMOUNT of “Elementary Level Research” will (should) convince the most uninformed……. We pay twice the money (per capita) and our health care delivery (effectiveness), here in the U. S. is virtually at a 3RD WORLD LEVEL!!!

Posted by: bobj72 | October 28, 2009, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm

Hey ABC!!!! Why not a single mention that the bill will probably TRIPLE healthcare premimiums for most American families…that enacting the largest entitlement program in the history of the world and handing over 1/5 of the US economy to the government will permanently lower our standard of living to that of a second class country…that it will cost he US millions of jobs that we will never get back…that dozens and dozens of new federal agencies and panels between you
and your healthcare will complicate
and delay and ration any and all medical care you get…in addition to the THOUSANDS of new federal regulations!! I don’t know just seem like a few details worth mentioning…just saying

Posted by: hopeforchange 2012 | October 28, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm

The road to socialism/communism from capitalism is not an easy one but one one which America (Obama) has started down. At the rate Obama has succeeded in bull dozing things his way, the brownshirts are not far behind. The public is slowly beginning to wake up to the tactics, but is it going to be soon enough to turn back the tide of ugliness and dictatorship that is surely descending, cloaked in a mask of amiability and celebrity. There is an iron fist behind all of that congeniality and smiling rhetoric.

Posted by: GREYFOX | October 28, 2009, 4:08 pm 4:08 pm

People who do not favor either a single payer or public option are sheep. You say we can’t afford it, first we are spending more money on health care NOW and have one of the worst systems in the world. We cannot afford anymore needless wars and it’s time we the taxpayers got something for our money. Look at the rest of the developed world, it’s time to stop the greedy ignorance in this country. If you vote for a Republican you must understand they will steel your money and give it to Wall Street while they lie all the way to the bank. How about supporting people who care about the people, wake up and be proud to be a liberal!

Posted by: Marie | October 28, 2009, 4:10 pm 4:10 pm

The 69 minutes expose on medicare fraud should serve to inform that the government cannot…cannot run anything.
The loop holes built into the medicare system just proves that government cannot
run a health care system in any reasonable way. How can a government system have been implemented with such an obvious invitation to fraud.

Posted by: GREYFOX | October 28, 2009, 4:17 pm 4:17 pm

As long as the public mentality exists that Government can fix all problems without the dollars to do so Democrats will survive. One thing always solves the problem – a free competitive marketplace. Obama is killing that.
Watch the election results next week to see what 2010 will bring. I say vote every damn one out – good and bad – and see how we do with a fresh crop that has to build new alliances with each other.

Posted by: Chicago Doug | October 28, 2009, 4:27 pm 4:27 pm

esorcire: When we vote him out he probably won’t be welcome in Reno, back to Searchlight he goes. Hope they will except him, it is his home town.

Posted by: stickman | October 28, 2009, 4:47 pm 4:47 pm

The photo says it all: “please Jesus, save my bacon”

Posted by: harry smells tourists | October 28, 2009, 4:49 pm 4:49 pm

Time to vote the communists out in 2010. The government has not shown that they can run anything much less healthcare, kick them to the curb, vote true conservative, smaller government officials into office and lets right the ship before its too late!!!!

Posted by: tco123 | October 28, 2009, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm

rightbehind: Do you think that procedural trick, if pulled by Reid, will be easily forgotten about? How about in 12 years when it bankrupts our country? Never mind that far from now, how about 2010 when he’s driven from office with all the other big-government progressives that don’t even listen to their own constituents?

Posted by: J A | October 28, 2009, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm

Ha ha, Can’t wait to vote these wanabe tyrants like Reid, Pelosi and Obama out. All you loser democrats can suck it.

Posted by: Ed | October 28, 2009, 6:12 pm 6:12 pm

Obama Biden = Osama Binladen

Posted by: A | October 28, 2009, 6:14 pm 6:14 pm

Out with these tyrants Pelosi, Obama, and Reid. They are nothing but a bunch of Marxists, and all you supporters of the “healthcare bills” are nothing but fascists that deserve to be kicked out of the country.

Posted by: Ed | October 28, 2009, 6:30 pm 6:30 pm

hi vous j’aime bien cette facon de penser ce commentaire mais l’ immobilier est mon hobbie.

Posted by: annonces immobilieres | October 14, 2011, 6:20 pm 6:20 pm

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