Obama Makes the Case for Health Reform with MD’s

A photo-op doesn’t mean much, but hopefully it will get people to ask their own doctor about it or look at the legitimate polls that show doctors certainly do want health care reform (duh, they know first hand how much of their professional time is spent fighting insurer’s paper pushers). And a majority in every legitimate poll I’ve seen want a public health insurance option to be made available (see Keyhani and Federman in the New England Journal of Medicine most recently with their poll of 5000+ practicing doctors).

More smoke and mirrors from Obama. I wish one time we could hear a detailed plan of what he intends to do with this issue. It is all outlines and proposals, no solid facts at all. Government health care is a poor idea and will cause us to have the second rate health care found in Cuba and Canada.

jhw,
My sister is a Dr. and I asked her about this over the weekend. She disagrees with you. I’m sure that man doctors do, including my own.
It’s easy for Obama to sell something when he’s surrounded by supporters. I would like to see him debate this with people who oppose it.

The good old 9 out of 10 doctors support government run health care commercial!

“My sister is a Dr. and I asked her about this over the weekend. She disagrees with you. I’m sure that man doctors do, including my own.”
stdntDrvr | Oct 5, 2009 1:09:15 PM
If you are so sure, then please provide a poll of a randomized sample of thousands of practicing doctors and provide the survey instrument and crosstab results for public evaluation – you know, like all the polls showing doctors support health care reform and the introduction of a public insurance option (competing with private options on a level playing field, as has been proposed).
The plural of anecdote is not data. My grandad smoked like a chimney and lived to be 80 (although he had to give up riding his motorcycle to the pub in his 70′s). That doesn’t mean I am going to take up smoking.

jwh539:”And a majority in every legitimate poll I’ve seen want a public health insurance option to be made available (see Keyhani and Federman in the New England Journal of Medicine most recently with their poll of 5000+ practicing doctors).”
Well, almost. The survey you mention went out to 5157 physicans but 221 were returned (wrong address, deceased) and 2130 bothered to send a response, a response rate of 43.2%. So nearly 57% of physicans surveyed were indifferent. The article states that nearly 75% of (responding) phyisicians support some sort of public option. That’s great. That also means of all physicians who were asked (4936) only 1590 or so favored a public option, a rate of 32%.
It’s also clear why those in favor support a public option: they like Medicare and feel a similar option for everyone would allow themselves to provide better care for their patients. Understandable. What’s left unsaid is “regardless who gets stuck with the bill”. Would they feel the same way about Medicare if $500B were taken away from the program and their reimbursment schedules were cut accordingly? I wonder.

” That also means of all physicians who were asked (4936) only 1590 or so favored a public option, a rate of 32%.”
Woody | Oct 5, 2009 1:41:39 PM
That is incorrect and a classic tactic of “lying with statistics” (otherwise known as just lying). You cannot magically assume that every non-response is in favor of your opinion.

“Would they feel the same way about Medicare if $500B were taken away from the program and their reimbursment schedules were cut accordingly? I wonder.”
Woody | Oct 5, 2009 1:41:39 PM
Oh, and while Woody is wondering anyone reading should know that IN REALITY no one has proposed any cuts to the reimbursement schedules to realize the Medicare savings. The biggest chunk will be taken out of an insurance program’s hide, along with eliminating ineffective treatments that just waste money (a facet of the program the Mayo clinic has praised as having the potential to ‘bend the cost curve’).

How dare commenters on a blog use anecdotes and imprecise numbers in the face of 150 lab coat wearing doctors on the WH lawn?
We don’t know what the plan will be, but these doctors support it. So common people should probably just accept it now.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) has had a healthcare plan he’s tried to advance for months. Surprise…Dems won’t let it out of committee. MSM acts like alternatives don’t exist.
All we get from Obama is his face in front of a camera.
We need jobs, via tax cuts not budget busting healthcare legislation.

Pitting Obama’s doctors against the GOP’s status quo vision of our collective health being controlled by insurance companies could be a successful play by the White House.

jwh539:”That is incorrect and a classic tactic of “lying with statistics” (otherwise known as just lying). You cannot magically assume that every non-response is in favor of your opinion.”
All we know is 57% of recipients did not feel the survey was important enough to warrant a response. Statistically there should be a “Don’t Care” category comprising the 57% which of course would make all the other categories irrelevant, including the 32% who support a public option.
BTW, a 57% non-responding rate is a stunningly high amount given the “crisis” we’re in. It’s really the dominant statistic of the entire survey. I thought if we didn’t do something righte here, right now we would reach some sort of tipping point and the country would collapse. Polling the doctors is a great idea. It gives us a sense of just how important this issue is to them.

==There are simply NO credible numbers opposing the thesis that the majority of Drs favor a public health care insurance option. There are credible numbers supporting the assertion that Drs DO favor a public health care insurance option. ===
Supporting “a” public “option” means precisely nothing.

jhw,
Realistically, health insurance is a key selling point for businesses to attract talent. You believe that if given the option, a company would quit providing health insurance all together? Wouldn’t that be sui.cide from a business standpoint?

“You believe that if given the option, a company would quit providing health insurance all together?”
stdntDrvr | Oct 5, 2009 2:31:36 PM
They have the option now, and one of the EXPLICIT objectives of Rep Ryan’s bill is to eliminate employer healthcare. Read the bill, this is VERY clear. And before you start cranking up the noise machine, it’s not even a terrible idea – with a mobile workforce employer dependent healthcare introduces serious distortions of the labor market.

Reminds me of “I’m not a doctor, but I play one on tv”. What a circus sideshow. The details of the plan just won’t stand up so we have smoke and mirrors side show do distract us.

“jhw,
I understand they have the option now, but you stated:
“Tax all employer provided healthcare (predicted to lead more employers to drop it all together – there is no requirement they offer healthcare). This is predicted to result in the widespread loss of health insurance for millions current covered by their employers, so if you like your health insurance too bad. At least you’ll get a tax credit as you get to go shopping on your own.”
Which is why I asked whether or not you believe that it would be sui.cide for a company to drop benefits considering that people look at what’s offerend, as it relates to healthcare, as part of their overall compensation.
If you’re going to quote me, use my entire post. Please don’t pull out fragments.”
stdntDrvr | Oct 5, 2009 2:41:51 PM
If you couldn’t quite grasp it from my response, I believe that Rep Ryans bill WILL result in employers dropping health insurance, I believe that the change will be industry wide so there will not be a loss to companies in the market for labor, AND THE BILL WILL HAVE FAILED IN ITS EXPLICIT INTENT IF EMPLOYERS DO NOT DROP COVERAGE.
For goodness sake, have you read the bill?

150 doctors? from all 50 states? That’s like, 3 MDs per state.
Posted by: Obamacrat for Palin
yes you’re right, what Obama should have done is empty out all the doctors, from all the hospitals in america and flown them to DC, to stand around on the White House lawn.., that way your ‘point’ about ‘representation’ could be achieved

i represent alot of doctors and zero support obamacare, period. beleive or dont , most of them will also curtail their practices and they believe that cost cutting will cause more paper work and less time for patients.the only docs that seem to support obamacare are those which already sold out to hmo/ salary positions. which means they couldnt make it on their own. get real obama,

i represent alot of doctors
Posted by: catman
really..?
I represent a lot of space aliens residing in the ‘ort cloud’ just beyond the solar system’s edge.

Did Obama also request that they all wear their white coats? Doctors don’t wear their coats when they are not seeing patients.

It is very unsanitary for these guys to wear their white coats outside of their practices. Are we sure they are real doctors and not just bussed in?
It’s sort of sad he couldn’t get as many docs to support health care that protested it a week ago.

It is very unsanitary for these guys to wear their white coats outside of their practices.
Posted by: Plumber
you are correct, those particular white coats are the only ones they have access to.

One of the ‘non-biased’ questions from the IDB poll claiming all those Drs were going to quit:
“Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better?”
How good is IDB at polling? As of late October 2008, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 in the presidential election.
No wonder they have no information up on their randomization methodology, or even what they define as a “practicing physician.”
Rassmussen is an established polling house with a known Republican house effect. IDB/TIPP appears to be more on par with a monkey throwing darts.

Obama once again attempting to play on the uninformed and uneducated. What a pathetic display. The vast majority of Americans want “health care reform”. The majority of them do not approve of this basic proposal (there are 5 right now). Is it so hard to admit they wrote a bad bill? Keep the current pre-existing conditions for insurance and scrap the rest. We need to reform health care by lowering actual costs, not adding another insurance company.

150 doctors, obama and Polosi to decide what they want to try and cram down our throats. Wonder what type of new czar positions each doctor was promised? A handfull to decide our fate. Why not have a national vote for it or against it? and on the same ballot add (should the United States of America empower itself to impaech this current president for lying)

“If you want Obamacare…”
coastlinecascott | Oct 5, 2009 3:39:38 PM
The closest equivalent to a public insurance option would be Medicare, which has higher customer satisfaction ratings than any private insurance plan.

the majority of doctors do not support a public option. A majority of those who belong to the AMA support it. but since on 25% of doctors belong to the AMA, that doesn’t say much. And most of us based in ‘reality’ as many like to say, know that Obama is only using this so called option as a path to a singer payer system. aka the taxpayer.

we need another prime time speech from the prez so we can be educated. everytime he speaks about health care its prospects dwindle.

“the majority of doctors do not support a public option.”
Betsy | Oct 5, 2009 3:50:00 PM
As discussed previously on this thread, the most recently performed polling with publicly available methodology and sample set of thousands of practicing doctors indicates that DOCTORS DO SUPPORT A PUBLIC OPTION. Is there any polling that supports your opinion, other than the already discredited IBD ‘poll’? (Actually, you are stating it as a fact, not an opinion, but I’m getting tired of calling people liars.)

I JUST REALLY WISH THAT THEY WOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT ALL OF THE STARVING HOMELESS UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF BENEFITS FOR WEEKS, WHILE THEY ALL DISCUSS HEALTH CARE. STARVING HOMELESS PEOPLE DON’T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT HEALTH CARE, BUT THEY WILL REMEMBER THIS COME ELECTION DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That’s because they want to keep their profiteering, and like a good wealthy and powerful leader, he wants them to keep their profiteering also, so the meeting is to pat each other on the back, while Obama goes about making the middle class pay for the poor.

Good idea, Obama, make sure they all wear their white coats —- What a PHOTO-OP sham!!! —- I guess you can get 50 people in any profession to say whatever!!

jhw539 — The only way the “majority” of MD’s would support a “public option” is if they believed Obama’s lies and didnt think it would end up with 100% SINGLE-PAYOR, government-run healthcare!!!! (which it would in 10 years!)

Once again obama chose only those that support him instead of a true debate with all providers! The false prophet strikes again!!! The doctors in the Rose Garden were all supporters of health care reform — and the invitation-only guest list drew heavily from Doctors for America, a grassroots organization that backs a government-run insurance option! he doesn’t like confrontation does he?

WHAT A MARKETING LAUGH OBAMA PULLED ON ABC NEWS!!!! 150 HAND PICKED DOCTORS TO SHOW SUPPORT JUST LIKE HIS HAND PICKED TOWN HALL MEETINGS. AMA SUPPORTS OBAMA SUPPOSEDLY, BUT HOW MANY OF AMERICAN DOCTORS NOW BELONG TO AMA….LOOK IT UP AND YOU WILL BE SUPPRISED THAT A MINORITY OF DOCTORS IN AMERICAN BELONG TO AMA PROABABLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TIRED OF THE POLITICAL “BS” THAT THE MEDIA PUTS OUT.

Are all these Doctors going to help pay their patients medical health cost and then take amount the Government allows. I don’t think so. any high paid ,high quality doctors will quit there Practice. And then we will be left with low grade, low quality doctors. when the good Doctors quit all at once, the amount of patients double how long will it take to see a low quality Doctor>>>People take alook around you, Would you take a big decrease in income and stay with your job???Would you lower your lifestyle??>>>>>>>>> I don’t think so , do you?
Do we want our privacy to be an open book to our Government so they can decide if you can see a Doctor or not, because you still drink or smoke, and as long as you do it, you are causing your illness so suffer intil you die or not or pay a penlty charge to see the Doctor.
For years we ask a witness if they are specialist or professonal to state something in court, well is president a professonal medical to as or make decisson on our health and our privicy granted by something called our CONSTITUTION, Which President Obama is tryin very hard to get rid of

Obama and crew provides the Ultimate in Staged Whitecoat Astroturfing Theater.
Obama, the Orwellian Spin-Doctor-In-Cheif.

CONSTITUTION
Posted by: susan g white
a meaningless document as long as there are ‘signing statement’ options available to a president

==1. Public and Private Options: Provide people under age 65 the choice of enrolling in a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans.===
Right. As I said, that means nothing.
When we have details on what it covers, how it is administered, how it is paid for, how customers enroll, who is eligible, and how much it costs…then it will mean something.
Medicare is broke. If having a public option “like Medicare” means adding onto its debt, we can’t afford it.

MAYBEESHEEPLE- put the private industry in the position of medicare. Having to accept all risks, pre existing conditions, chronicly ill people, disabled people and see how long they would last. The CEO’S would take their 24 million dollar salaries. Take their golden parachutes. And bankrupt the company a week later.
SECREG_756

TIREDOFWAITING–me too. And I have no dog in this hunt. I’m just sick and tired of politicians taking money from companies and then lobby for thrm, while they are still in office. GRASSLY, BAUCUS, BOEHNER, CANTOR, ENZI, LIEBERMAN, DeMENTED-R-S.C. should all resign their positions as public servants and move to California.
SECREG_756

All the doctors were called into the WH to see if Obama had any kahones to stand up to lobbyists and Pelosi, Reid & Co. Prognosis was: “Couldn’t find any”, “Hadn’t dropped yet”

All the Democratic rancor over health care costs is nothing but rancor. If you listen to them and cut health insurers profit to $0. $12 billion the past 10 years per Chuck Schumer on this week, that is only a mere drop in the bucket.
Greenspan stated that we are currently underfunding Medicare by 50%. My god, thats a multi TRILLION dollar deficit, that the democratic plans do not address. And we want to add to it?
Electronic records, single payor, etc. Health care is still going to rise to 20% or more of GDP before we run out of borrowing capacity. None of the plans makes it sustainable. PERIOD!

There were 150 doctors were there out of how may doctors in the US? And they support reform. But there is a huge difference between reform and the Baucus healthcare bill. My Rep, Dr Michael Burgess is still waiting for the president to do what he said he’d do – talk to those who had ideas.

scott jeffries | Oct 5, 2009 6:15:20 PM
… The administration has already initiated Medicare cutbacks

secreg: put the private industry in the position of medicare. Having to accept all risks, pre existing conditions, chronicly ill people, disabled people and see how long they would last. =========
If you give private insurance companies those conditions and limit how much they charge, they would indeed go broke.
That’s exactly why they can’t compete with the government.
The government can run up debt, as they have with Medicare. That makes our financial future as a country more perilous. Eventually, the government has to find a way to pay for it. That means you and me and our kids will have to pay for it.
So the government can’t afford to run Medicare now, and private industry can’t afford to run like Medicare…so what does that tell us?

I’m guessing Obama didn’t dare go off script today accusing doctors of taking out tonsils and amputating limbs to shaft patients.
Where was the media when hundreds of doctors/nurses protested Obamacare in DC last month?

When I had medical health insurance – it was the health insurance companies who interfered with my doctors diagnosing me and treating my sinus infection. they had me returning to the doctors’ office like a yo-yo three times before the doctor was allowed to give me the anti-biotic. My doctor explained to me that the insurance company prefer that their patients heal without antibiotics. What, From an upper and lower respiratory infection?

When my husband lost his job to outsourcing of American hightech jobs in 2002, we also lost our medical insurance.
We tried to get medical insurance, but were turned down from 2 companies because of pre-existing conditions.
We tried again to get medical insurance from several other insurance companies, but the rates were too high in both annual deductible and monthly premiums due to pre-existing conditions.
We have held on to our home with temporary contracting consulting hightech jobs around the country in the high tech field. At 60 years of age there is no prospects for any secure permanent jobs so the temporary work is all that is available in my husband’s line of work.
Since 2002 some of our friends who did not loose their hightech jobs to outsourcing had their health care insurance benefits cut while their premiums and deductible rose.
While most of our other hightech friends since 2002 have lost their medical insurance because their companies no longer provide medical insurance for their employees.
We need the Public Option just to servive the greed of the medical health care Insurance Companies and to give the insurance companies a good ONE-TWO PUNCH in the kisser.

My “used to be” sweet, caring doctor ( I don’t have insurance now) spent alot of her precious time, not with me the patient, but on the phone making her case to “TREAT” me. THE INSURANCE COMPANY, BLUE CROSS/BLUE SHIELD WAS GIVING HER “INSTRUCTIONS” ON HOW TO TREAT MY INFECTIONS… NO REFERRALS TO ANY SPECIALISTS….or she was going to be dropped from the providers network. She was soooooo frustrated from visual observations……..then I got on the phone with those “death panels”, and went Irate……….I got my referral! Why should any person who pays their premiums for a service is denied the service, with year increase in the premiums……..again, all the Obama haters need a brain…..or they don’t know What insurance is…never had any, don’t have any now…..just another issue to hope America will fail. DOCTORS DO NOT WANT TO PERFORM UNDER THE WATCHFUL, THREATENING EYE OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Angie- a public option is not going to give you all the prescriptions you want for free.
It sounds like you got bad care from your doctor, and that is unfortunate.
The insurance company can only control what it pays for, not what the doctor does to treat you.
If you needed antibiotic, he should have prescribed it.

How moronic this is. The American Medical Association – made up of virtually ALL American physicians – flatly rejects a public option. What a bunch of garbage this is. Obama should resign now.

Most of the MDs who showed up for this photo op actually campaigned for Obama. I think most MDs would like to see reforms, just not the ones being proposed. We are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Nephron and steve r, you are both mistaken on how doctors view the public option.
‘A survey conducted by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and published today in the New England Journal of Medicine, reveals that 63% of physicians favor patients having a choice that would include both private health insurance and a public health care insurance option. An additional 10% indicated they would prefer a single-payer, universal government health program. The survey concludes that almost three-fourths of the nation’s doctors are supportive of more federal government involvement in bringing health care to Americans.’
You both forget that most doctors go into that career to actually help and heal people. The fact that for so many Americans health care is out of reach due to the high cost of insurance is a terrible injustice to most doctors.
We all, uninsured and insured need the public option to control the high cost of premiums by the private insurance industry.

Sara, 3 words, GET A JOB. As for Obama and this article, what a great photo op! Doctors in their clean white coats. Did Obam them to wear black under? Why didn’t ABC report on the Doctors that were there Thursday Protesting government controlled Health Care? Too busy flying to Copenhagen? We need to clean out Government corruption before they take over ANYTHING else. They can’t even keep PORK out of the Healthcare bill. How pathetic. I am not opposed to Health care reform, but I do NOT want our CORRUPT government taking it over. How many budgets has this administration gotten correct? Today, they came out saying the banks are sicker than they thought. General Motors will need more money. Cash for Clunkers? Double the estimate. House stimulus? Over double. PROVE you can do something right before you start messing with 1/6 of the economy!

@Angie wrote: And I was never told until the third time I went to the doctors’ office for the same condition that the insurance company wanted the doctor to wait to treat me.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
This story, and a number of others here make NO sense. A doctor doesn’t ever have to check with insurance to write a script for an antibiotic. IF it were the insurance comp., then you would have found out at the PHARMACY, but that’s not your story. Furthermore, BC/BS would have sent you an EOB (Explanation of benefits) that would have shown if something was denied and why – but again, that’s not what you are claiming. So the fact is that if your insurance company HAD told your doctor that they couldn’t provide you with a drug or care, you would have gotten direct notification of that and KNOWN about it well before a third visit to the doctor. Then you could have appealed the decision.
Again, however, there’s no way the insurance company could have stopped your doctor from simply writing you a prescription if the doctor felt that was what you needed. Your story just doesn’t hold up.
Your claims make NO sense, and frankly I suspect are quite disingenuous.
This is also true of all the claims I’ve seen about how someone supposedly lost their job and therefore their insurance also. When the fact is that if you lose a job where you have insurance, you are, by law, offered COBRA and can continue your benefits that way for up to 18 months.
People complain about the cost of COBRA, but the fact is that you aren’t paying any more for COBRA than you did when you were working – you just didn’t SEE it when you were working, because rather than pay you that much more in salary, the company was paying it to your health insurance and toward the salary of their human resources folks who administer your benefits.
If people realized the REAL cost to their own pocketbook of employer provided health insurance, they’d be a heck of a lot more interested in a system where you bought insurance yourself rather than from your employer – and where the government gave the same tax breaks to you for buying it yourself that you get if its thru your employer.
Plenty of people choose not to continue their insurance because they think its too expensive, but how many of those think NOTHING of keeping their cell phones, buying large screen HD TV’s, paying for cable every month, and so on. Its ABSURD.
I’m sick to death of seeing all these fake sob stories all over the place – ones where the story simply can’t be true if one is aware of the way health insurance actually works.

Let’s be honest, this guy has even used Jesus to try to convince the American people on his Healthcare vision but his failure is that he does not how to spell out the plan. He is clueless on everything…What about a real change ?? in 2012 !

Regarding Angie’s case about antibiotics. As one who has worked for both Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance let me inject my comments. Yes, an insurance company can control what your doctor does. They can control what treatments the doctor does, what tests they order and even what prescriptions they write. There are a couple ways insurance companies can do this. One would be they ‘own’ the doctor. Humana is an insurance company that actually owns hospitals and physician practices. If an owned physician does not comply with the insurance policies, they will be fired! Another would be through the carrot & stick: if a physician keeps down costs by doing less of the extras such as tests and prescriptions, they get bonuses (that’s cold hard cash folks). In the reverse, if they do not keep down costs, they cannot participate in the plan, which means their patients covered by that insurance company will have to go to another doctor. Now, in defense of the insurance company in Angie’s case: it is a well-established fact that antibiotics are over-used. This is dangerous for 2 reasons: one, over-use of antibiotics causes the germs to become resistant and the drugs to become ineffective; second, the patient can be harmed by excessive antibiotics. Those are very powerful drugs. For Angie, not being a doctor, I can’t say whether the insurance company and/or doctor was right or wrong. But I was over-treated with antibiotics several years ago. Now, I don’t take them unless I’m very VERY ill.

I think this “health care reform” is all a big joke. We are seniors and we have medicare and we also have supplemental health care policies and part D to cover our drugs.For this we are paying out a little over $650.00 monthly. As i understand this PLAN all of our coverage will be going up in price and we will not be getting any cost of living increase this year. Last year we got a measly 5% and our drug plan doubled in price and our Blue cross supplements went up every 6 months instead of one a year. If this keeps up they won’t need the death camps for us old folks, because we won’t be able to afford our insurance or meds, not to mention food, we are doomed anyway you look at it. And by the way while i’m on this when we were young and we had children we found a way to pay for their medical care whether we had insurance or not. I think it’s important for children to have health care but not at my expense, i raised my children, these parents today should find the way to do the same thing….it was their choice to bring these children into this world.

Sue, $650.00 a month for health care coverage for two people is the deal of the century. I wish I could get the same. Without a public option, I never will.

WE NEED PUBLIC OPTION IN THE HEALTH CARE REFORM BILL FOR COMPETITION TO THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES!
IF YOU DO NOTHING THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES WILL GO BROKE ANYWAY BECAUSE WE CANT AFFORD THEM AND THERE HIGH PRICES.
LOWER THE COST ON ALL MEDICAL AND COMPANIES.
MAKE ALL THE MEDICAL FIELD DROP THERE PRICING HABITS IN THE USA !
MAKE THE DRUG COMPANIES DROP THERE HIGH PRICE DRUGS!

Coming from a family of doctors,I can assure you that this group does not represent the norm! I can only wonder how ABC would have treated Bush if he’d pulled a stunt like this?

WWW: being able to keep more of your own money that you earned to support children who are dependent on you.. You’re calling this grabbing welfare???!!!!!

ABC is still drinking the Kool Aid — no credibility. They weren’t “their” white coats. They were White House props. Potemkin Village, Potemkin Lies.

Jonathan Chait has an interesting piece in The New Republic this morning called Pop Fiction: How to demagogue health care and feel good in the morning. It makes the case that the GOP and tea partiers attack health care reform for incoherent and contradictory reasons, but still somehow manage to feel good about themselves anyway. It’s something I find intriguing– I mean, how do they do it, really? I think, as Jonathan alludes to, it has something to do with imagining that all sorts of like-minded “patriots” have risen up in revulsion and revolt against statism, which is funny when you look at the reality, but powerful. Anyway, I like this quote, among many others, “One could muster ideological extremism to make the case that the government has no business subsidizing health insurance for people who can’t get it. Alternatively, one could make the equally nutty case that Medicare should not lose a single dollar from its budget, however wasteful and inefficient it may be. But no political philosophy on earth could justify both of these fanatical positions at once. Somehow, though, the Republican Party has managed to stake out this absurd territory–Claude Pepper minus the social conscience, Milton Friedman without the small government.” LOL. I also like his description of the opposition’s position as “a politically potent cocktail of status quo bias, ignorance, and general apprehension.”

Alyson- does Chait mention the absurdity of promising health insurance for everyone, with no limits for care, much of it subsidized by others, as a cost saving measure?

Sorry Jimbo. Humana sold off all their hospitals 15 years ago, and has no doc practices anymore either. They found it was too much internal conflict to have insurance on one side of the company and hospitals on the other. One side said “open the beds” and the other side of the house said “fill the beds.” so they dropped hospitals and stayed in just the insurance side.

How are those unemployed, who need this health care going to pay for it? If they don’t have a job that means they are not making money. I thought everyone was suppose to help pay. This isn’t suppose to be another welfare project remember. So someone please tell me who will pay for this? ECONOMY, NATIONAL SECURITY, and HEALTHCARE in that order! People need jobs in order to pay for insurance or is the plan for those who work to pay for all those who don’t? The number of unemployed keeps rising, how is this suppose to work?

whatsgoingonhere – I think not enough people LISTENED to Obama. REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH. Everything is now a welfare project.

….and be sure you wear you hospital gear, guys and gals, because we really want a really, really big show. This little episode just another chapter in silliniess in this increasing comedy called “HealthCare Reform.”

hey, Jake, what I am really worried about is the half thought out and half ### save face “reform” bill that Congress will have to pass and that the President will have to sign to save face as the result of this fiasco.

Hey, did the ACORN activists playing the doctors at this dog and pony show get to keep those neat white lab coats as souvenirs??

As a physician, I would like to make a few observations.
First, the USA is the ONLY wealthy democracy without universal healthcare, and most of the nations that do provide universal coverage do it without “socialized medicine”, and do it better, and cheaper than us. Basic healthcare is a right, not a priveledge. 700,000 Americans are forced to declare bankruptcy every year because of medical expenses,and many of them have jobs and health insurance. There are several paths to corrected this national disgrace. All of them involve eliminating “for-profit” basic health insurance coverage. For good examples, look at the French and Swiss systems- better, fairer, and cheaper than we have here- heavily regulated, but all private.

Norm, you’re a physician and I’m a physician. You wouldn’t dare say this in front of your colleagues or administrators. You know it and I know it.
Tina

MayBee wrote: “Any government tax policy should consider what the person who earns the money can actually afford to give to the government and other citizens.”
So it’s all about what a person can afford to give? Cool. A big shot CEO making 10 million can afford, say, 9.9 million in taxes. Oooh, just think about what Rush Limbaugh could afford to fork over!

Not true, Tina. I say it all the time, and for years. And many physicians feel the same way. If universal healthcare had been priority of the AMA, perhaps more 1 in 5 physicians would belong to the AMA, an organization which many people mistakenly believe speaks for the majority of physicians.

This is all a bunch of BS. I do not support this program, but if they are going to cram it down our throats, then this must happen: THE PRESIDENT AND HIS FAMILY, THE PRESIDENTS STAFF AND THEIR FAMILIES, THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND ALL OF THEIR FAMILIES, THE SENATE AND ALL OF THEIR FAMILIES, THE JUDGES AND ALL OF THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE ENROLLED IN THIS HEALTHCARE PROGRAM AND THERE WILL BE NO EDWARD KENNEDY OPTION FOR THEM TO OPT OUT, THAT WILL NOT BE IN THIS BILL, AND THEY SHALL STAY ENROLLED IN THIS HEALTHCARE FOR THE REST OF THEIR NATURAL LIVES. NO IFS, ANDS, OR BUTS ABOUT IT, MAKE IT SO. I may support it if this language is clear and included in the Healthcare bill… thank you

“Or do you support a tax policy that considers all money earned belongs to the state, and the government decides how much you can have, without consideration for your own wants and needs?”
I support calling a spade a spade. Giving tax breaks to people who choose to have children is government assistance.

WWW: do you take “government assistance” for your home costs? Under your definition you do if you take a deduction for interest paid on your mortgage.

Per the NY Post, the WH issued all the doctors spiffy white coats, if they ignored the request to bring their own.
Let’s stage manage a little!

Let’s stage manage a little!
Posted by: Beth
yeah, like Bush on the aircraft carrier ‘mission accomplished’… ‘combat operations are over’
how many years ago was that now?

Elle wrote: “WWW: do you take ‘government assistance’ for your home costs? Under your definition you do if you take a deduction for interest paid on your mortgage.”
Well, since you asked, no I don’t. But the interest deduction can be a nice tidy sum of government assistance – especially if you have a million dollar mortgage.

And the more money you make, the more welfare you are taking.

I hope Norm, if he/she actually even is a physician, is far far better at being a doctor than in considering national policy. If not, all his/her patients are in big trouble.
The USA already has universal health care. Every person in the US, legal or illegal, can go to a free clinic or ER and by law gets whatever medical care they need.
We just don’t have universal health INSURANCE. Should we have universal home insurance? Universal fire insurance?
I’d like to know how other nations that provide universal coverage do so without it being socialized. By definition, universal mandate from the government IS socialized.
The report of large numbers of people being ‘forced’ to declare bankruptcy because of medical expenses has been thoroughly debunked. The ONE study with this finding counted any bankruptcy that included medical expenses as supposedly being medical bankruptcies. These were often cases where there were tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands in NON-medical expenses as part of the bankruptcy, with one or two thousand dollars being medical. Hardly bankruptcies caused by medical bills.
The French system is having serious problems. It isn’t at all the ‘better, cheaper, faster’ medicine Norm claims either. The French system is a mixture – a base ‘universal’ coverage from the government, plus if you choose, much more expensive supplemental coverage you purchase yourself from private insurers. Huge numbers of doctors won’t even see you if all you have is the government portion, because it doesn’t reimburse enough. They’ve got huge problems.
Meanwhile there are a LOT of things our government could do that really would help. The bills under consideration will make things worse, not better, however.
What would help? Allow insurance companies to sell across state lines. You want competition, there would be HUGE competition right there, vastly more than any ‘public option.’ Extend the same tax benefits to individuals who purchase their own insurance as those who get it thru their employers. Extend the laws that for more than a decade have required employer provided insurance to cover pre-existing conditions after a reasonable waiting period to individuals also – presto, the whole pre-existing condition problem disappears.
These and other things could be done at virtually NO cost (compared to the trillion dollar plans being considered now), and would have a huge impact on all of us – reducing our premiums, increasing our options, improving our coverage, and allowing more uninsured who actually want insurance to get it.

Klatu:Perhaps those against FREE healthcare
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How can health care possibly be free? Doctors don’t get paid? Equipment doesn’t get built or used? Hospitals don’t get paid? Nurses work for free?

“Free” universal healthcare absolutely is socialism, by the very definition of the word. Note, its also very definitely NOT free – not in any nation that has any form of it.
The cost is just hidden in taxes which make it far more difficult to determine the actual costs. Those providing the health care, and the facilities and equipment all have to get paid or they starve. Those building the facilities and equipment cannot do so without purchasing materials and supplies, without their own facilities which have to be paid for and maintained.
There quite simply is NO such thing as “free” health care. NOTHING that is “free” from a government is EVER actually free or anywhere close to it. The entire society pays for those things, PLUS the surcharge of the government middlemen and their salaries, their facilities and equipment.
The Webster’s dictionary definition of socialism, for those who don’t seem to know or understand what the word means:
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

Who’s ‘heartless,’ or ‘evil,’ or pick your term…??? Government run medical systems like Medicare, or those covered by private insurance companies? IS the ‘profit’ motive of SOME insurance companies the ‘root’ of the ‘problem’ with health care in the USA? I say some because there are non-profit insurance companies out there already.
Would a government ‘public option’ treat people better, deny less claims?
According to a very large study by the American Medical Association in 2008, their National Health Insurer Report Card, MEDICARE DENIES FAR MORE PROCEDURES AND TREATMENTS than insurance companies.
The Medicare denial rate found in the study was roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined. Individually, medicare rejected more than Aetna, or Humana, or UHC, or Anthem, or Cigna, etc.
So who’s heartless?
Meanwhile, medicare loses approximately $70 to $110 BILLION a YEAR to fraud. EVERY YEAR. Add to it that their reimbursement rates are so low that many doctors simply won’t take new medicare patients — as many as half the doctors in some regions. ALL of them negotiate higher rates with private insurance to make up for the low medicare reimbursement rates.
That means that ALL of us with private insurance are subsidizing, covering, everyone in government run systems, not only with our taxes, but also with higher cost private insurance.
Medicare is bankrupt to top it off. Just as is the US Post Office – and any other system run by the government. But some people are advocating yet ANOTHER government run system, claiming that it will be cheaper than what we’ve already got? Please.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON ROSE GARDEN IN THE WH ???? WHY OBAMA REALLY ENJOY BREAKING RULE THAT WHITE UNIFORM OF DOCTORS CAN NOT BE WORN OUT SIDE OF HOSPITAL. OBAMA WANTED TO SHOW HIS SOCIALISM EVEN ROSE GARDEN, TOO.

Lets face the facts..It has become abundantly apparent…no matter the proposal…republicans will grab the microphone and scream, and because we are focused on the problem and actually trying to solve it…we are not screaming back…the way it stands now is simple, we are held hostage to the insurance companies…they are the only ones responsable for “death panels”, not the doctors, the government or the democrats….rampant destructive capitalism, is more of a threat to our country-than any percieved or imagined socialism.government competion with the drug companies, and insurance co.s is a very good thing-that is-capitalism at its best…the previous administration, was a giveaway to capitalism, welfare to corporations, cronism, and government at its worst-crooked and twisted to benefit those at the top…the american people were disgusted with what unfolded…we aren’t the silent majority….we spoke…we just aren’t the screaming minority.