Obama Warns of Insurance Industry’s ‘Last Ditch Effort’ to Block Reform: ‘It’s Smoke And Mirrors’

Obama warns about Insurance Industry.Add n htis to the sanctimony of Obamas saying to business leaders that he will not tolerate “reckless behavior” or “unchecked excess.” In addition, According to the Washington Post, Obama went so far as to ominously warn industry leaders “not to stand in the way of new laws.” This administration views any critical opposition as the enemy and the logical conclusion of this endless campaign is a battle against the ultimate enemy; American traditional and foundational exceptionalism.

This is the ADMINISTRATION of Smoke and Mirrors!
Obama once again leverages the unspoken mantra of the left: Accuse your enemies of what you yourself do.

Of course the Healthcare “factory” Industry will say anything to keep control over your health and money. The couple in Ohio that both have cancer of the breast, will have to fight with their insurance companies for their Doctors, to be “permitted” by their carrier to get the specialized care they need right now, but later, they will be dropped “like a hot potato” for “pre-existing” conditions. These “death panels” are fighting to have the right to choose who is going to live or die based on dollars. The insurance companies has a new Pay..called Co-Insurance, not co-pay as we know it….Co-insurance means you will have to pay a “percentage” of your bill for care….which will run into thousands for working families, that were left with service jobs (10.00 per hour)such as Wal-mart, Burger King etc in the 1980′s, when viable companies, with loyal employees and decent wages and benefits, were shipped overseas for bigger profits by the Reagan administration.

More important be aware of all the “hidden” costs to the middleclass that everyone of their plans conviently conceal.

This is the ADMINISTRATION of Smoke and Mirrors! >>> I agree

Here is what a member of Obama’s Economic
Team has to say about what they intend on doing with Health Care: “”We’re going to have to, if you’re very old, we’re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It’s too expensive…so we’re going to let you die.”
“…I am going try to reorganize it to be more amenable to treating sick people but that means you, particularly you young people, particularly you young healthy people…you’re going to have to pay more.”
“…What that means, less innovation and that means less new products and less new drugs on the market which means you are probably not going to live much longer than your parents.”
” So live it up now, in Obama’s future, you won’t have one for long!! So much for America being the leader in anything, with Liberals at the helm!!

“Laugh about it, shout about it when you have to chose; Anyway you look at this you lose.” From Paul Simon’s “Mrs. Robinson, 1968.

Yes, just like with Lenin, in obama’s twisted socialist world, the private businesses that employ millions while following GOVERNMENT REGULATION that LIMITS MARKET COMPETITION is always the enemy. If his lies are allowed to stand unchallenged and this disaster is successfully rammed down the throats of Americans who support their existing plans by close to 85%, you we will witness the explosion of government power and the first steps of the US GOVERNMENT UNDER DEMOCRATS BECOMING THE WORLDS LARGEST EMPLOYER. As socialists, they will continue to dismantle the economy that in 2007 generated more then 25% of the world’s Gross Domestic Product with 4.3% of the world’s people. We are about to see those numbers plummet as the United States sinks into a decades of poverty crated by this administration alone. Worst president ever.

Whoever against me is an evil enemy? This is the first step to a great dictator.

Obam, you da man!

You “are” the Smoke and Mirrors, Mr. President. We still see little to no transparency. What a loser you turned out to be and it only cost the American taxpayers $11T. Such a deal. Go get a real job. I’m sure we paid enough of your cronies on Wall Street that someone will take you on. Then again, your retirement should be enough to sate even you. Of course, given that Wall Street pays you back what they said they would. Sweet Deal you got, Mr. President

As health care legislation moves out of the Senate Finance Committee, a majority of Americans says they oppose the reforms being considered. A Fox News poll released Thursday finds that by 54 percent to 35 percent, Americans oppose the reforms.

Where is the outrage? The liberal media spends all the time talking about healthcare and there is very little mention anywhere about the soldiers being killed in Afghanistan. Obama is the Commander in Chief but he spends 110% of his time as a celebrity pushing his agenda.

I dont think the insurance companies are obama’s biggest opponent, it seems that most veteran doctors dont like this due to how they get paid with medicare patients. they only get paid 8 dollars per medicare visit some some (if not most) doctors wont even accept medicare patients which leaves those people having to go to the hospital for coverage. The other scary thing is that the current bill only covers 1/3rd of the uninsured and the broad goal is to cover everyone, to do so would have to take 800Billion X 3 which comes out to 2.4 trillion dollars. OUCH! Especially when our defecit (lost capital per year) is 1 trillion and our national debt (current amount owed) is almost 10 trillion.

Everyone’s a CRITIC until their insurance company turn on THEM. The American people have had with the INSURANCE INDUSTRY….PERIOD. Like it or not WE THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN!!!! If we wanted things to stay the same we would have sided with McShame and the Republicans. And the Republicans are a fine bunch screw ups, to sit back and call ANYTHING this administration does into question, is COMICAL….Remember…WMD’s I know he has them….those no bid contracts and that ILLEGAL war that has cost us thousands of lives and RUINED our economy. Not to mention the tens of thousands of AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES who are know living in POVERTY thanks to your fearless leader and his disastrous policies of the past 8 years. However in classic Republican style, BLAME, BLAME, BLAME, if you lost your life’s saving and your no longer in the MIDDLE CLASS bracket, boo hoo hoo get over it.

Harry Reid said he believed the current healthcare proposal will actually cost $2 trillion.

Obama promised transparency and no more lobbyists. There is no transparency and Obama himself is the biggest lobbyist in Washington. Pelosi promised to clean up Conress, no more corruption and longer work weeks, what do we get much more corruption, nothing gets done and two (2) day work weeks. Why isn’t ABC News covering it.

Hey ABC, how about letting ALL sides speak on your news shows about Healthcare. We only hear Obama’s side from you. When Bush was in office, every time he said anything, you had someone on to reply. Try this NOW!

I support Pres. Obama 100% in the effort to reform healthcare. I am a Republican, but having myself negotiated insurance premiums for a Physician-Hospital Organization (PHO), I have seen how discriminatory the industry is and it canNOT be trusted to regulate or improve itself. The private health insurance industry enjoys a monopoly and will jack premiums or drop coverage at will without warning and after deceptive advertising to attract unsuspecting customers. I’m convinced we need to completely DO AWAY with PRIVATE INSURERS. Unfortunately, their greed has made it so.

Don’t be fooled, these people do not have ordinary American’s interest at heart only their own portfolios and trust funds.Mike >>>>> I am an Ordiary Joe that lives paycheck to paycheck and know that when all these programs you want to go into place I will have even LESS to show for it at the end of the day. You are a FOOL to think you are going to get some magic bullet. Is there anything to contain cost in this legislation? Heck is there even legislation? Obama is talking all about smoke. He is making stuff up since there is no real BILL. And the only one they will show you is not the real BILL because the real bill will be a thousand plus pages FULL of graft and power grabs. You really trust the group that bankrupted Social Security and Medicare to do your health care? You are a FOOL. You like HMO’s? Well do ya? Do you like rationed care? Do ya? This has all gone insane and people like you that trust the government to run stuff are fools. If they are to be trusted let them pass this is stages. Let them pass reforms FIRST and then keep adding until its all in place. That way we can back out of anything that doesnt work. HONEST MEN would do that! BUT THESE CREEPS are not HONEST.

Our founding fathers, those who wrote the constitution, warned us not to trust the government. That was in a day when people were honorable. And we should trust them today? Get real.

wheremymoney:
You want a reply from the otherside? Okay, here’s goes it:
LET’S JUST KEEP THINGS THE WAY IT IS!!!

Anyone who would believe anything that the insurance industry says is either a fool, a moron, a paid lackey, or a politician with their pockets lined with their money, which for regular folks would be called bribery, but they redefine by calling it lobbying and contributions instead. Same thing. These insurance company worms would actually want you to believe that they know what’s best for you and your family. Yes, they would tell you that increasing your premiums, raising your deductibles and copayments are a good thing. What’s worse…idiots that actually believe this line of BS and swallow it whole without stopping to use common sense to think about it. I’m sure they also welcome higher gas prices because Big Oil also tells them it’s good for you too.

Today, I am beginning a nationwide effort to DOCUMENT & PUBLICIZE the amount of money contributed by the private insurance industry to congressional leaders. The nation will see and UNDERSTAND who takes money from the private insurers and who is INFLUENCED by this money. In a way, the radical 60s are back, but now we are dealing with a leveled playing field — it’s just as easy for our underground network to spread the word far and wide as to just WHO is influencing WHO — and we fully intend to do so.

wizcat123 | Oct 17, 2009 9:32:42 AM
…..The reason is that MSM is complicit, thyat is they are intentionally not reporting many “negative” news stories that will impact the administration.

What even more troubling about all this is that Republicans in particular would rather put their own twisted, personal and hate agenda before the interest of the American people by opposing real health care reform. For them to stand with the insurance industry tells you where their real interest is…in lining their pockets with insurance money. They are in this for the money, not you. Wake up America, the Republicans don’t give a damn about real Americans. They only care about the rich and Corporate America, i.e., the insurance industry, banks, mega corporations.

Single Payer = Freedom from the lie and phony baloney market.

Posted by: Your conscience | Oct 17, 2009 9:47:01 AM
….In the interests of full disclosure, what is your org. and how is your operation funded?

Jake | Oct 17, 2009 9:49:54 AM…….and you want us to believe that Washington does?

Fascist Hyena, it’s “goofball” economics to have an industry that adds NO value to our economy. An industry whose entire business model is this: collect premiums and then attempt to ration care by denying treatment. Companies that build things, create things, and improve things should make as much money as the market will bear. They should become gazillionaires.

Tennessee was going to cover everyone in Tennessee, it certainly started out like that. Now they are dropping people right and left. Just a glimpse of what national health care will be.

This is all pretty simple. We have a trillion dollar deficit and they are trying to pass legislation that will add to it. They work tirelessly to pass this yet put Afghanistan and our economy on the backburner. Bumbling is the word I have for all of them.

Health care reform is needed. Beyond the insurance companies are the lawyers who feed on malpractice claims. But before the consideration of any organizations or dollars, the welfare of all human life must be considered. No reform is possible if it doesn’t have as its objective the well being of all …from conception to natural death. Any thoughts of abortion, euthanasia or assisted suicide must be stricken from the law or no other reform, regardless of the presupposed financial structure, will be successful. We cannot kill and claim compassion at the same time.

Posted by: shalom | Oct 17, 2009 9:57:27 AM……Just because someone is or claims to be a Republican, the financial viability of the healthcare is what it is. We need healthcare reform, but we can not afford the healthcare bills Washington is proposing.

Obama should know–his whole political life is smoke and mirrors.

“In other words, were cross-state sales allowed, a consumer in Texas buying a policy from a company in Alabama would have ZERO protection were the insurance company to simply say, ‘screw you, we just decided we’re no longer paying for any of your care.’”
This is simply untrue. The Alabama company would be subject to the jurisdiction of any state in which it sold policies. For example, my auto insurance company, USAA, is in Texas and it sells to me, a Californian. If I had a dispute with them I would sue them in California.
The great problem, and the needless expense imposed on consumers, arises from the mandates imposed on companies by state legislatures, and New York is a perfect example. No one can sell a policy in New York that does not comply with some 40 mandates, including that the policy cover hormone replacement therapy, substance abuse counseling and podiatry. These mandates are not the result of consumer demand but of lobbyists pressuring the legislators to make sure their clients’ practices are included in the mandates. If you would like to buy a less expensive policy–one that doesn’t cover all those services, and things like in vitro fertilization–you’re just out of luck.
If a New Yorker were permitted to buy a policy issued in neighboring Connecticut he could save an immediate 50% on his insurance premiums. He can’t, and it’s simply insane. You can buy life insurance, or fire insurance, or auto insurance, or crop insurance, from any company in the US, but uniquely in the case of health insurance you must buy within your own state.

“If I live in California and by a policy from a company in Arizona, which state’s laws will that policy have to adhere to?”
It depends on what the contract says. If it says “disputes arising under this agreement will be determined in accordance with the laws of the State of Arizona,” that provision will be honored by the California courts. You can sue the Arizona company in California, but the suit will be governed by Arizona law. Happens thousands of times a day.

Hey Washington just make JOBS and we’ll buy our own Insurance,you have the power to stop insurance companies from robbing its clients.its called a law to protect us not control us.use your brain thats what we elected you to do, Midterm elections will be disasterous for Dems who dont listen to the people,

Barack Obama accusing someone else of haveing a “massive warchest” and “smoke and mirrors.” That’s rich.

Concerned in OH, it’s called the Environmental Protection Agency: it’s a national regulatory body that crosses state lines. If we want to allow cross-border healthcare insurance purchasing, fair enough, let’s do it. But you’ve got to put consumer protections in place with a national regulatory agency. In other words, those arguing for cross-border purchasing are de facto arguing for the creation of a new national regulatory body: not very conservative, is it?

Fascist Hyena and Concerned in OH, by the way, I agree that we should allow sales across state lines but you’d have to put in place a new national regulatory structure, which isn’t very “conservative”, is it?

“…you’d have to put in place a new national regulatory structure…”
Why?

deanbob:
Then what is the Republican plan? A one page proposal? Give us a break! If the Democrats were not proposing health care reform, do you actually think the Republicans would have?

I thought the Mann Act of 1913 banned the transport of insurance policies across state lines for immoral purposes.

Then what is the Republican plan? A one page proposal? Give us a break! If the Democrats were not proposing health care reform, do you actually think the Republicans would have?
=================
Dems act like it is a foregone conclusion that the govt should take over our healthcare, and that the repubs should have “thier own plan.” As if Repubs should have their “own plan” to balloon govt control and debt. The repub “plan” is to prevent this travesty from happening until we can vote these socialists out of office next year.

Posted by: shalom | Oct 17, 2009 9:57:27 AM…..I honestly don’t know. My Rep, an OBGYN, has been trying since 2007. But there’s enough corruption in both parties……

Fascist Hyena, we’re not going to be able to solve, to one another’s satisfaction, the issue of proper consumer protection without a national regulatory body. But let me ask you this: if it’s as simple as you say, that all that needs to happen is for Congress to wave a magic wand and open cross-state sales, precisely what entrenched interests have prevented this from even being on the table? What interests have been so strong that it hasn’t even made it into the debate? And you can’t say that “Republicans have tried to enter it into the debate.” Garbage. Nonsense. If it were as easy as you say, and if it did indeed result in improvements to the healthcare insurance system (which I agree the competition would), why didn’t a Republican President with majorities in both Houses of Congress put it through between 2000 and 2006?

The founders of this country would be devestated to see what has become of our government, and bewildered at why we would voluntarily elect them to take over our lives. “The federal government can do WHAT?!!!”

Posted by: shalom | Oct 17, 2009 9:57:27 AM……I’ll tell you what I did(albeit many years ago) when I had the same problem. I took a second job.

A few weeks ago, Newt Gingrich, who I don’t agree with very often, made a very insightful point. Our Congress is so bought and paid for by the special interests that it would be much easier to nudge our health care system into better shape a little bit at a time than do a major revision all at once. He said he made the same point to Hilary in the 90′s.
The poorly-studied whose knee jerk reaction is “Canada”, a poor example of health care in other high-income nations, don’t pay any attention to Japan. It has ALL private insurance, a higher percentage of private medical facilities than us, but ONE basic nationwide government-controlled network that does things for half the price of ours, including MUCH shorter waits: appointments for PCPs and Specialists are unheard of, you just walk in – they didn’t let their medical schools graduate fewer now than in the 1980′s like America did, despite the fact that many very bright young Amercians would like to be doctors but are turned away every year. And if you’re Japanese, you’re twice as likely to get an MRI than an American. So don’t scream “We have THE BEST care!”
The Japanese, even though they’re famous for their “Japan Incorporated” love of capitalism, do NOT all for-profit health insurance: they know it’s idiotic to have the network prices in the hands of companies whose first priority is increased profits that rely on greater illness and/or greater costs.

andrew nelson | Oct 17, 2009 10:58:28 AM….Spot on.

Mr Obama says insurance companys lie?
Lets see his birth certificate
his income statements for past 10 years
require all people,including anyone elected to abide by this sham reform.

Health Care reform needs to be done. My wife’s father has worked for the some company for over 25 years and it is a small business that works with swimming pools and heating and just this week, his owner told him after this fall he has to drop the companies Health Care since he can not afford it. He will be without health care the first time in his adult life since the cost keeps going up. Insurance companies and the GOP should wake up and Health Care should be a Basic Human right and America should and must have National Health Care.

Our CIC is a fear monger, he does this crap every time he tries to get his way. NO Insurance should not be a basic human right. Get a job and pay for your own insurance. We need to vote every one in congress out of office. In 2012 we need to send barry the liar back to chi town with the rest of the thugs.

RDH, that was dam* funny: “relative safety provided by President Obama”? You mean the safety that Bush gave them for 7 years after he cut-and-ran from Afghanistan?

To see just how powerful the anti-reform forces are, go to PBS, click on the 8th ‘most popular’ show (Bill Moyers journal) and then click on ‘Essay: The Health Care Lobby’. We are already Bought and Paid For. Obama will need all the vocal help he can get – this has been blocked by for-profit corporations against the will of We the People for at least 6 decades.

RDH | Oct 17, 2009 11:20:13 AM…the Republican administration attacked Al Qaeda in Iraq……sort of like attacking Japanese in Angola.

halfmn | Oct 17, 2009 11:24:38 AM
…..True. So why does Obama PRETEND to care about bi-parisanship?

Chairman Mao would be proud

Robin | Oct 17, 2009 11:35:24 AM
…..I’m sorry. But Bill Moyer’s journalistic integrity in some previous pieces has been disappointing.

The major drawback to allowing purchasing across state lines is unless restrictions and regulations are nationally standardized anyway the insurance companies will flock to the states most favorable to them and least favorable to the consumer, like the credit card companies did. It would end up being a form of geographical deregulation which would probably cancel out any benefits for the consumers the proponents are claiming.

I want to know why the Democrats are taking money from the defense budget and using it for pet projects,like a memorial to Kennedy,20 million from the defense budget,and the Hawaii senator spending 250 million on pet projects,No wonder our Defense budget is so large.

Skip, that’s been my understanding as well. I think ultimately it would have taken such a gargantuan task to set up a proper national body for standardizing and enforcing regulations that it was considered a non-starter by everyone who even thought about it. And of course no Republican in what has become a shrunken shell of the former party (Eisenhower & Teddy Roosevelt Repubs have been totally purged) would EVER support the creation of said national regulatory structure.

JR Jake | Oct 17, 2009 11:59:35 AM
…..excellent questions and points. I would add:….if most changes are not being implemented until 2013, why can we search for better solutions before then?

“…it would have taken such a gargantuan task to set up a proper national body for standardizing and enforcing regulations that it was considered a non-starter by everyone who even thought about it.”
Anyone who thought about it seriously would know that there is no need whatsoever for a “nationhal body for standardizing and enforcing regulations.”
Is such a body needed in the market for homeowners’ insurance? Fire insurance? Life insurance? Auto insurance? Why or why not? And if not, why is health insurance different from any of the innumerable industries whose products and services people buy and use regularly without any such “national body?”
For a treat, pick up today’s Wall Street Journal and read “Why Health Insurance is So Expensive in New York.”

Concerned in OH, I just don’t buy the “liberals have prevented it because they want nationalized healthcare.” Maybe it’s true but it sounds like a way-too easy and intellectually lazy answer. You may hate Obama and despise everything he stands for, I don’t know. Or perhaps you give him the benefit of the doubt. Either way, it makes no sense to me that if this were easy that Obama and the centrist Democrats who are controlling this debate would not have taken it into consideration. The reality is that when you boil this issue down, I think what you arrive at is that it’s been a convenient talking point for those who want to sound as if they want reform but really just want to prevent anything from happening. At first blush, the talking point sounds reasonable and logical. So, it’s BRILLIANT demagoguery. It’s PERFECT for GOP Senators to go on talk shows with and pretend as if they have a much better idea, when in reality, they would NEVER vote for the creation of the national regulatory body that would be required to properly put cross-state competition in place. It’s demagoguery. The same thing goes for “tort reform,” by the way. Texas and California both put incredibly stringent tort reform policies in place over 10 years ago. And what has that done to the price of healthcare in those two states? hmmmm….it’s grown in the intervening years as fast or faster than the national average.

RDH: What “war on profits” are you talking about? The insurance companies have held ALL the cards for decades. Their profligate salaries and profits are through the roof, and they fail to provide what they say they will provide for far too many people. Break me out a violin for the insurance companies. If this country is trnding toward socialized medicine, the big insurance companies have certainly pushed it in that direction.

Fascist Hyena, I’m not an insurance expert. I don’t know the answers to those questions. Which is why I go back to the fundamental question I asked earlier: IF it’s so easy, what interest groups have prevented it from being discussed? And you can’t just say “liberals.” The reality of this debate is that the bill that is emerging is being written by center-right leaning Democrats and Olympia Snowe (who you can dismiss as a RINO if you want but that’s precisely the problem the GOP has right now – this crazy act of throwing people overboard who don’t go to the First Church Of Rush). In reality, this bill is being written by those Senators who 50 years ago would have been Eisenhower Republicans. So if this cross-state thing is so easy to do (if all it takes is a flip of the pen), why would these center-right Senators have completely ignored it? On it’s face, it would seem like the simplest thing to do.

It’s been decades and the insurance industry has made no improvements in healthcare, except to increase premiums and drop or deny coverage

Robin, I love your selective thinking, out of that article thats all you read ?

Hey it’s a free country lou -Windsor Locks | Oct 17, 2009 12:35:37 PM – that being said this item is about health care reform. I for one am sick and tired, in this, possibly the richest country in the world, to know – TO KNOW – that over 100 fellow citizens have died today because our health care system is so gosh-darn awful – it’s unchristian to put entrenched interests and profits ahead of human life.

Interesting. Aetna’s CEO, Ronald Williams, earned a bonus of $1,950,000 in 2008, even though stockholder share price declined 50.6%. So they screw — not only customers and healthcare providers — private insurers also screw shareholders. It’s time to start digging deeply into their financial affairs. Deep.

Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Oct 17, 2009 12:22:18 PM
***
I think many, many, many people would agree with the two paragraphs you posted, Fascist. But let’s unpack a bit of what you’re saying– remember the whole 80% of Americans claim to be satisfied with their current health insurance thing? Have you looked at what has happened every single time health care reform has been on the table? Did you ever bother to read the Wyden Bennett bill and urge your representatives and senators to support the gist of it if not the bill in its entirety? Have you read AHIP’s response to repealing the antitrust exemption, which it received in the first place on the grounds, more or less, that they didn’t engage in interstate commerce? Have you noticed how irked some of you all get when the insurance lobby gets heavy pushback? And though some of you don’t consider PBS a reliable source, have you watched Moyers’ video on the health insurance lobby or have you read elsewhere about how entrenched it all is– both Dems and Republicans are involved, which is likely why the WH needed to start, start, by cooperating with both Big Insurance and Big Pharma. An extreme overhaul wasn’t feasible– what is feasible is to set up a structure that makes it possible to move in a different direction. If you look at the majority of countries that have universal coverage now, some with a private-public option mix, some not so much, they didn’t create their health care and insurance system in one sweep-through.
The good first step, or second step, or third step, shouldn’t be the enemy of some perfect plan that makes everybody happy.
and btw, great posts, Average Joe. You make so many great points in this thread.

On a related note, Maggie Mahar has a great post up at Health Beat as to why health insurers are launching an 11th hour attack on health care reform. In brief, they’re running scared because they know the public option is still alive and kicking.
Paul Krugman notes: “the end result of AHIP’s blunder may be a better bill than we would otherwise have had….Even with stronger exchanges and a public option, health reform would probably increase, not reduce, insurance industry profits. But the insurers wanted it all. The good news is that by overreaching, they may have ensured that they won’t get it.”
I’m glad the Prez got a little feisty in his address this week.

Oh, one more tidbit. Ezra Klein interviewed Olympia Snowe (yesterday, I think) and he has a brief blog up today that addresses the issue of building on our current system. The end quote: “we have a conservative system of government (in that it’s very hard to change the status quo), and they’ve designed health-care reform to be sensitive to that fact.”
Check out the whole thing though because he makes a couple of other good points about other plans, including John McCain’s — and how all of them are more disruptive to the current system than our Senate and House seems to be able to pull off.

deanbob | Oct 17, 2009 12:56:54 PM……
Hot off the presses in mid-September…(Un)happy reading
45,000 excess deaths annually linked to lack of health insurance: Harvard study
The new study, “Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults,” appears in today’s [Thursday's] online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

lou -Windsor Locks | Oct 17, 2009 12:49:29 PM…I’m glad to read your post because so many others who clearly oppose this administrations push for health care reform say appear shockingly uncaring – it’s time really for a single payer public private system as exists in so many other rich countries which do a better job for their citizenry; don’t think we’ll get even close to that, so your fears of being forced into anything are likely unfounded – all the best.

Sorry Robin, I have a family member living in europe and 3 weeks ago he was told he needs a triple bypass surgery, today when I asked him how was it, he tells me that he is yet to be admitted to a hospital, they told him soon, maybe in a week a bed will become open and they will take him, please all hope that we do not end up in that line..

As an American I want to know that a homeless Viet Nam vet will have health care available. I am less interested in discussing the sale of insurance than I am in the provision of health care.
A Public Option is a smart and sensible approach to allowing competition in a free market. I would prefer a single payer system (I have been hospitalized in Europe and the medicine was first class) but that is somewhere in the future.
Our nation’s managerial class has betrayed the county. All they do is gouge and plunder our industries. We need to get away from a gamed system and now is the time to start.

Harris Poll:
“President Obama may have won the Nobel Peace Prize, but unfortunately, he is not winning accolades from the American public as his job approval rating continues its downward slide. In September, U.S. adults were split almost evenly on the job the President has been doing – 49% gave him positive ratings and 51% gave him negative ratings. This month, the number giving him positive ratings drops to 45% while over half of Americans (55%) give him negative ratings.”
Are we about to be told that the Harris people are a bunch of right-wingers?

Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.”
– Michael Rivero

I didn’t realize “lack of insurance” was a fatal condition. If I get hurt, and someone else doesn’t pay for it, it can kill me?
Posted by: Concerned in OH
spoken like a true representative of the ‘compassionte’ ‘right wing’, if people dropped dead on the street right in front of you and told you before they died they were denied care, you still wouldn’t believe it… your perspective is so simplistic it borders on Obama’s saying”
‘they take pride in their own ignorance’. !

Imagine this: You’re 55,you’ve been paying healthcare premiums for 30 years, your doc tells you have an enlarged prostate. Your insurance company raises your rates again and again, or, (gasp) drops you completely. No other insurance company will touch you and you don’t qualify for medicare for another 10 years. You now get prostate cancer and go through your life savings trying to pay for health care to save your life. You think this can’t happen to you?

You’re right, Jake! Banish all lobbyists. Let the people speak (like they did at the last election). The public is demanding a public option.

I’m pretty sure that thousands upon thousands of people in our country that or un-insured or under insured is pretty much fact. I should know, I’m a student and I’m one of them. I go full time, have a part time job, no insurence there, and sure can’t afford it on my own…so what am I supposed to do if I get cancer tomorrow? Oh well…just my problem right? This isn’t the story of many more just like me…it isn’t the story of you right? If you got really sick tomorrow you’d be fine right? your insurance company would take care of you right? Wrong. Unless you have big time insurance we’re all at risk and people need to start getting that. Insurers AREN’T there to protect you…they are a business trying to make money. They aren’t a charity, they get rich off you of sick people who paid in, and then often won’t cover you totally when you really need them. why do people side with them? It’s disgusting.

Fact is, the US spends MORE on health care as a percentage of GNP than ANY OTHER NATION, even those with “expensive” single-payer/”socialized” systems. And the outcomes are less than stellar, considering how many lack access (and even those WITH access get a rationed form of care depending on which insurance they can afford). The costs of health care and insurance continue to outpace every other cost in the economy, and the ripple effect of this is felt everywhere, from job, pay and benefits cuts at the business level to the family economy, with people struggling to meet their other basic needs while shelling out more and more for health coverage. (and sometimes losing everything due to lack of coverage for an illness or accident). Medical bills are currently the NUMBER ONE cause of personal bancruptcy. This is US, people, our families, our neighbors, our friends…good, hardworking people who need relief. The “free market” is NOT working best in this area. In the long term, we SAVE money and EXPAND freedom and access by designing a better system now. The President is correct in saying that this area is one of if not THE the most crucial to address to heal the economy. It remains to be seen if the reforms will have the TEETH to be effective (what the Ins. lobby is working to derail). The Repubs. continue to block serious reform in the form of regulations requiring companies to behave and a public option to force competition. If they get their way, not much will change, except everyone will be required to have insurance and many will not be able to afford it. Keep pushing, Obama! We DID elect you to do this!

SAY NO TO SOCIALISM, SAY NO TO THE OBAMA AGENDA TO ENSLAVE AMERICAN WORKERS AS GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES!! Don’t want to believe it? UK socialized health care disaster is the 3RD LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE WORLD behind the Red Chinese Army and India Rail. WORST EVER!

At this rate Obama will be Impeached before the next election. Posted by: jafo
I’ll make a wager with you on whether that happens..
why do you so blindly accept what the insurance companies say, when the oil speculators pushed prices up to $4- for a gallon of gas did you blindly believe them too?
I never said Obama was perfect, I do believe based on what I’ve read that the health insurance companies have a virtual monopoly , unregulated, tax exemptions going back to the early part of the last century, and they screw people right and left.

Average Joe – You are independent? What do you think of 28 soldiers dead in Afghanistan thsi month and Obama is till campaigning, yesterday he was in San Francisco raisinf funds for 2012. General McChristal requested troops in August 30th and Obama is still trying to figure out a strategy and now Joe Biden is the foremost expert in warfare, you are a liberal drinking kool-aid, do yourself a favor just go get a brain.

“It’s all so bloody unnecessary; there are so many better and cheaper ways to improve the system, and they all provide for much greater individual freedom.”
I just don’t believe the Republicans will ever make any serious effort to reform healthcare so the only way to get these better ways you’re referring to enacted would be to convince the Democrats that they really are better, which doesn’t seem very likely! So even if you’re right there doesn’t seem to be any vehicle to reform healthcare in the way you advocate.

Insurance companies are unregulated? Say what? That is a bunch of nonsense. Its current regulation is one of the big problems with insurance companies—STATE INSURANCE REGULATORS lock out competition from insurance companies across state lines. To get rid of requiring insurance to be regulated by each state would lower cost of insurance for many people.

I sure hope Obama is impeached soon…the guy is a moron and a major crook—both very bad.

I saw on your news a free health care clinic set up for those who have no coverage. There were thousands of people lined up for hours to get in this tent. It looked like a Third World country. How can you allow the insurance industry to run your health care system? What an outrage.

There must be a public option. We cannot and must not continue to have these misery merchants called insurance companies dictate our health care policy for America. I can’t believe that there are actually so many people with so little brain cells that would believe the BS scare tactics being spewed by the insurance industry. Our biggest challenge is to have a national referendum banning all corporate lobbying and contributions, and term limits. Those two things is all we need. That is the only way we will really have honest government. If we don’t do that, we will always have a government that represents the interest of those that can fill their pockets with money, and not our interest. If we can’t get that referendum done, then we should vote everyone one of them out of office. There is no reason they can’t live on the salary they are paid without taking bribes from Corporate America. The rest of America does, why can’t they. Vote the whole bunch out,

raven – Why doesn’t Obama and the Socialist Dems just give a $5,000 credit to each citizen so they can all get health insurance …. that is just 300,000,000 x $5000 or 1,500,000,000,000 ($1.5 TRILLION for idiots) it would a lot cheaper and require a lot less paperwork , politicians and bureaucrats, than socializing healthcare which in the long run will be much more expensive, just use your brain, it is going to be just like the IRS, requiring hundreds of forms to fill and exceptions to rules, and a lot of cheats to go along. What are we paying thes 535 politicina $176,000 a year, what do they do for us, both Democrats and Republicans including Obama let’s not forget him he is our President last time I checked, except he spends all the time talking in the celebrity circuit and raising money for democrats.

As an independent voter, it continues to amaze me that people are actually sucking up what Obama says.
I am not however surprised that he is trying to make some thing or some one else a Villain. He has done nothing of any substance is unlikely to do anything of any substance so “It has to be some one else’s fault” For the sake of Clarity I don’t think the republicans are my friend in health care and having spent years fighting for coverage for indigent clients I know the insurance companies are not my friend.
That said the mess being promoted by the president and his cronies as Health Care reform is a TRILLION dollar fraud. It does nothing to to actually control the cost of Health Care or Health Care Insurance. It has in fact raised the cost of Health Care Insurance in every state where it has been tried (See Massachusetts acknowledged Billion dollar shortfall) As I have said before I have never been very active politically but I will give will raise money , give my money, and mytine to unseat any member of congress that votes for for this PLAN TO FAIL. Write your Congressman tell them to scrap this disaster , go back to the drawing board and come back with something that has some value!

Valerie – You are a student. Do you want the Governenment forcing you to pay for Health Insurance and fining you if you don’t get one? Do you think it is the role of the Government to force people to have Health Insurance. We are still living in a Republic, this is not Russia, China or Cuba yet. But if young people like you prefer that the Government fix your problems, you my young friend will be paying a lot of higher taxes than I ever did. I am 65 years old and retired.

Obama Warns of Insurance Industry’s ‘Last Ditch Effort’ to Block Reform: ‘It’s Smoke And Mirrors’
***********
If the Dems can stop fighting amongst themselves and get a bill,
Is Obama going to give us the 5 days he promised to read the bill? Smoke and mirrors…..

Jake – A Healthcare Monopoly will exist if Obama and the Democrats get their Public Option in the Healthcare Plan. Private Health Insurance companies will go out of business, because small business will go with the public option for their employers and all competition will en. We will then be 100% subject to Government mandates and controls. This is exactly what Obama and the Democrats are trying to do, if this is what you want then you will looking forward and happy to be paying much higher taxes in the future while the Government exerts much more control over your freedoms.

It’s time to ignore the insurance companies when they whine about the President’s healthcare plan. They have had decades to improve and reform the way they do business. They have done nothing but line their pockets with the hard-earned of their victimized customers. They have merchandised healthcare long enough. Now is the time for reform.

There must be a public option. We cannot and must not continue to have these misery merchants called insurance companies dictate our health care policy for America. I can’t believe that there are actually so many people with so little brain cells that would believe the BS scare tactics being spewed by the insurance industry. Our biggest challenge is to have a national referendum banning all corporate lobbying and contributions, and term limits. Those two things is all we need. That is the only way we will really have honest government. If we don’t do that, we will always have a government that represents the interest of those that can fill their pockets with money, and not our interest. If we can’t get that referendum done, then we should vote everyone one of them out of office. There is no reason they can’t live on the salary they are paid without taking bribes from Corporate America. The rest of America does, why can’t they. Vote the whole bunch out,
Posted by: Jake
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Since corporate America is so bad and socialized countries are so good, I’m certain we would have Americans lining up by the thousands to immigrate to socialist countries around the world.
Jake, why do I see the reverse? Why are there so many people in socialist countries trying to come here….and as far as I know there hasn’t been even ONE American who ever tried to immigrate to a socialist country.

GOP operatives continue to dishonestly and deceptively spout that they cannot support a public option because they want to keep costs down for the American people! Really? But they know that only a public option can bring about true reform and control the “out of control” medical costs and premiums crippling people and jobs, making it harder and harder to get by. One has to think ahead. If you happen to lose your job today or tomorrow and we don’t have health care reform, who will pay you and your familie’s health care bills.
The reason that GOP always say Gov’t is the problem is because when you have men/women in power who do Nothing but say no or complain, like the GOP — goverment is a problem! And so it is a self-fulliling prophecy. As long as the GOP are in power or in control, the goverment will be a do nothing, problematic government, which will do nothing for Average Americans. We must remember, this is Bush & the GOP’s recession. They had the power for 8 years and did nothing to uplift this country, only to rape it from Main Street, to add it to Wall Street. The GOP does not even like to raise the Minimum Wage! They care nothing if you are making it. People we must wake up now! Because look around, assess the United States’ situation that we are in and realize over the last 10 years of GOP rule, what have they done for you lately? Or this country? And ask yourself this, if we let them get power again, how much more further will this country be destroyed until the United States will no longer be. That is a very frightening thought

Aren’t you sick of listening to the Washington bureaucrats about Health Care Reform.
Remember, insurance companies are only the administrators of the benefit plan and they are paying claims for what the physicians, hospitals, pharmacies, etc are charging. More important is that they don’t choose the plan you have, they are only administering the plan that YOUR employer has chosen.
Prices keep going up because of technology, research and development, new drugs, etc… Are there unnecessary test being performed? Oh yea! We are all paying a premium for the uninsured population… Washington has been villanizing the insurance companies for trying to manage and control the costs and not really focused on where the increased costs are truly coming from. Did you ever look at the hospital bill before the negotiated contract rate is applied?
Maybe Americans need to ask how much the drug companies are making, how much the doctors are making, how much hospitals are making. And why Congress has their own special health coverage….hmmm!

“and as far as I know there hasn’t been even ONE American who ever tried to immigrate to a socialist country.”
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Thousands of americans have immigrated to Canada and Canada has a single payer, socialized medical system.

Julie…well hundreds of thousands if not millions of Canadians have fled here to receive care from diseases they certainly would have died of in Canada before Canada’s socialized care bothered to treat them.

“How can you allow the insurance industry to run your health care system?”
They don’t. No one is required to have insurance, and millions of Americans elect to keep their money instead of paying insurance premiums, in effect insuring themselves. If they need to go to a doctor, they go, and then they pay him, just like they pay their grocer or their lawyer or accountant.
Many millions of Americans who cannot afford insurance but want it are eligible under Medicaid but simply haven’t enrolled.
I see all those thousands of Canadians coming to the US to give birth, or to get an MRI instead of waiting for months to get one in Canada, or to have surgery to relieve their pain rather than wait for it in Canada. How can you let the government run your health care system? It’s an outrage.

“It’s Big Government vs. The American Citizen.”
__________________________________
Republican governments coddle Big Business; Democrats fight for the average American.
It’s corporate greed vs. common decency.

“And by encouraged, you mean STRONGLY encouraged, as in pushed into van and then dumped on the nearest corner.”
_________________________________
‘pushed’, ‘dumped’ . … nonsense.
Try researching the situation.

I trust insurance companies more than I do government run care and certainly more than fascist socialist thugs like Obama.

Angel, you would probably have more luck trying to push that Obama’s health care scam would save people money IF MOST didn’t already know that Obama’s plan will cost the average household thousands more each year for less care and that Obama’s people hadn’t let it slip that the price tag is closer to 2 trillion $$$/ Only an idiot would think Obama’s plan would save people money no wonder Obama wants to fine people who don’t sign up for his plan—no one in their right mind would sign up knowing what we know already not to mention all that Obama and his are still hiding about this “plan”.

Obama’s health scam is much like the global warming scam…all bs meant to rip people off. You’d think most people would brighten up and learn to question everything corrupt politicans say quicker but they don’t. Atleast finally people are waking up and figuring out that Obama is just trying for a new tax to rip people off–this one the health care tax and stop him from pulling his scams. I look forward to seeing Obama impeached and then jailed eventually.

“that Obama’s people hadn’t let it slip that the price tag is closer to 2 trillion $$$/”
________________________________________
Nonsense – that is the cost of total health care spending in the United States, not the cost of the reforms.

“How can you allow the insurance industry to run your health care system?”
“How can you let the government run your health care system?”
OK, lets compromise: We’ll keep our private insurance industry, and add a strong public option.

talkhoolo, just pray you do not have a terminal illness and find out that the insurance company is dropping your coverage, then you will learn not to trust this corporate crooks. Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims. They are in the business of minimizing risks and taking your monthly premiums to develop massive shopping centers and investing for capital gains. To them profit trumps health. Thanks God we finally have a smart president who can stand up to these crooks.

Fascist Hyena writes: “No one is required to have insurance, and millions of Americans elect to keep their money instead of paying insurance premiums, in effect insuring themselves. If they need to go to a doctor, they go, and then they pay him, just like they pay their grocer or their lawyer or accountant.”
———————-
“In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree…”

blah blah blah… Another BO Infomercial… we all know BO lies….. so who is lying more BO or the Insurance Companies…….. I surely dont believe a word BO’s teleprompter utters……

BO sure is good at demonizing Americans

Its the politicians who are giving us false promises. Smoke and mirrors on their part.

They scuttled the Clinton attempts to accomplish what every other wealthy first world nation provides it citizens while they continued to pay the same worthless people who led them into holes that almost destroyed our economy. Time to throw off their shackles and call them what they are — liars and thieves feeding off those who pay the premiums while refusing to honor valid claims. Ask me about my finger crush injury that occurred over the Christmas holiday two years ago treated in an ER in NY that GEHA refused to pay because the provider was “out of network”. Thank you, Mr. Obama, for telling it like it is.

BO’s weekly infomercial is all smoke and mirrors, it’s bogus….. Every word that BO’s teleprompter tells him to utter is poll and focus group tested………. all the key “hate” buzzzzz words are spoken

While Obama was campaigning, he spoke to an outdoor crowd and criticized some people for calling him a socialist. While he spoke he shook his head in disgust at the laughter of his idolatrous sect audience. He knew then, that America, including his radical following, laughed at socialism so he got elected as the apparent centrist that he played himself off for.
So now that he’s elected why has he suddenly turned socialist? It seems to me that Obama kept his true colors hidden just to get elected. He once said about his radical associations, “I’m not going to get swift boated”. He said this all the while planning on lying to America about his true radical identity knowing that America would never elect another Hugo Chavez as our own leader. But behold Hugo Chavez is what he have. Cue julieterra . . .

Translation from Leftwingese:
Distraction: Information that’s damaging to the cause and impossible to refute on the facts.
Smear: Anything that disagrees with our side. It’s quite acceptable to lie and make up stories and quotes about the other side (e.g., Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh).
Smoke and Mirrors: See “Distraction”.

Like clockwork… BO demonizes and denigrates American Companies with his phony meaningless CBO findings….to push his Socialist Healthfare Plan down the throats of the American People who invest in these companies…

I’ll say it again, because private health insurers are trying to silence me by “killing me”:
I happen to be DYING because of the manner in which private healthcare providers treat customers. I object to those of you who are against a public option. You are signing my death warrant. You have NO compassion.

BO will “bend the truth” or “break it” to demonize and denigrate the Health Care Companies to push his socialist agenda on the American People….

“ran on health care and universal coverage”
while in the next sentence assured Americans he wasn’t a socialist. Come on . . . who are you kidding? I’m all for reform and America voted for reform, except Obama’s version goes beyond reform by TAKING OVER health care and by DICTATING to Americans their coverage.
Americans voted for POSITIVE change, not negative tyrannical change.

“I’ll say it again, because private health insurers are trying to silence me by “killing me”:
“I happen to be DYING because of the manner in which private healthcare providers treat customers. I object to those of you who are against a public option. You are signing my death warrant. You have NO compassion.”
_______________________________
The right wing would prefer to back up and defend the insurance companies than actually help to improve the system.
Can’t help but wonder if they’re paid. How much money have the insurance companies put into defeating reform? Millions? Billions? Too bad they didn’t focus more on good health care.

To Vet1973 and everyone else out there you are listening to people telling you that health care reform is bad for you then they try to extort you by telling you if health care reform goes through they will raise your rates 400 percent. How brain washed are you? Are you really this retarted? You are listening to the insurence companies that stand to loose billions from health care reform. How stupid are you people?

And then there’s Obama, with his small, modest war chest, who only ever speaks God’s honest truth about universal health care…I mean, health care reform…I mean, insurance reform…

Isn’t great how BO, who said he was going to have the most transparent Administration ever is hiding behind close doors, having SECRET discussions, and making “SECRET” deals….. for his Socialist Healthfare Plan

On March 3, 2007 Obam admitted he wanted universal coverage under a single payer system.

The only one running deceptive ads is you Obama and your administration. Too scandalous to even let us to see it. I asked my doctor about your health care plan and he said you were crazy and that this is nothing more than a hostile takeover by the government of our medical care. I scoffed at the idea initially but now seeing your thug tactics he is absolutely correct. You really need to step down from office. Too bad you dont ue your thug tactics in Afganistan where they are needed!

If BO’s Socialist Heathfare Plan was so great…. he wouldn’t have to use his scare tactics to denigrate and demonize American Insurance Companies, and YOU who work for and invest in them…..in order to shove his socialist agenda down the American people throats….. he cant even get his own party to pass it when they are 100% in control…… BO lies…. and swears to it….

“If BO’s Socialist Heathfare Plan was so great…. he wouldn’t have to use his scare tactics to denigrate and demonize American Insurance Companies”
________________________________
How much money is it exactly those noble Insurance companies are paying to try to denigrate this health care reform?
The right wing are in attack mode . . . this is predictable and to be expected.
And the badmouthing and smearing of the Democratic party and the President are to be expected as well . . . it’s all the right wing seems to have in its intelligence.

“Vet1973 You make me lauph so hard. “Denigrating American Businesses… the one who CREATE jobs….” Are you really this stupid please I need to know. Let me tell you a story of an american company citi-bank they took 154 billion of YOUR tax payer dollars to aviod having to lay off empoyees. The day after they got the money they promptly layed off 15 thousand of there employees. They also then gave out bonuses to the managers, boards, and CEOs. Tell me how they have our best interests at heart? How they are doing good biusness to create jobs? You are really stupid and obviously a fox news robot.”
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“Any Health Care Plan that does NOT contain a “Single-Payer OPTION” is NOT a “REFORM” plan at all.”
_______________________________________
I presume you mean a ‘public option’ and if so I tend to agree – depending of course on the structure and strength of cooperative insurance option.

Don’t worry Pools Obama is moving towards single payer system faster than you think. Obama admitted in March 2007 that his plan would not “eliminate” private health coverage “immediately”, “I can envision a decade out, or 15 years out, or 20 years out . . . ” Look it up: SEIU Health Care Forum 3/24/07.
Barney Frank admitted in July 27, 2009 that ‘the best way to reach single payer is to go pubic option’. Look that one up too.
In 2003 Obama said:
“I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we’ve got to take back the White House, we’ve got to take back the Senate, and we’ve got to take back the House.”

Bill Nelson calls the “Baucus Plan” — which contains NO Single-Payer option — “A good first step.” A betrayal of the Dem constituency that overwhelmingly favors a “Single-Payer Option” is NOT “a good first step.” A fraudulent plan that capitulates to the Insurance Industry, is NOT “a good first step.” It is Dem TREASON that perpetrates a fraud against the Dem voters who were explicitly and unequivocally PROMISED “Change” and “Reform” of a federal system long-since captured, corrupted and controlled by wealthy lobbyists like the Insurance Industry. Nelson and Baucus are talking about “Change” and “Reform” DEFERRED into the future, the same empty promises they’ve doled out for the past 50 years. Dems puts Obama and Dems in Congress in a significant majority because they were explicitly and unequivocally PROMISED “Change” and “Reform” NOW, not because they wanted yet another empty promise deferred into the vague, nonspecific future. We don’t need Dems in Congress when they are simply going to mimic, appease and capitulate to Republicans and the Insurance Industry. And that is precisely what the “Baucus Plan” represents, pure brazen capitulation to the Insurance Industry, pursuant to Repub’s lifelong sentiments.

Like clockwork, BO and his lobbyist’s have gone on cable television waving inept CBO study in the air to push BO’s Healthfare propaganda…………….

With insurance reform, they have to take all applicants, no sex based premimum differences, no lifttime caps, no annual caps, lower copays and deductibles….
Duh!!!! There is a cost for each one of the these reforms and insurance will go up!
one does not need an accounting degree to see more benefits equals more costs.

Obama messed up with the american people when he bailed out everyone coming and going.”
____________________________________
You’re going to have to get your facts straight if you expect people to take your posts seriously.
It was under the Bush administration that the TARP funds were put in place. Half were dealt out by Bush, the remainder by Obama.
Posted by: julieterra |
………Obama followed Bush , So what your saying is it’s ok for Obama and not for Bush , Why do you think it’s ok for Obama ? And don’t forget about Obama’s stimulus bill that is doing nothing more Waste of the american tax dollars .Obama is just as bad as Bush was . And we have nothing to show for Obama spending . Higher debt .

Ever hear the words of Robert B. Reich, the former Democrat Labor Secretary under Clinton and a very prominent BO supporter, its on tape…. Reich said “This is what Democrat politicians would say if they could really be honest.” We are going to have to… If you’re very old, we’re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It’s too expensive. So we’re going to let you die.”

I am almost glad that Bush did what he did, because if he hadn’t and left everything for Obama what kind of shape would america be in if we were waiting on Obama to do something.

“BO and his lobbyist are filling the airwaves with deceptive and dishonest talking points and ads.”
_____________________________________
Actually it’s the insurance companies and the remnants of the right wing who are spending millions upon millions of dollars to ensure their profits are not hurt by health insurance reform.

The Healthcare Reform Bill is nothing but Smoke and Mirrors.

STACY, given that 98 percent of the travails you cite were generated by two irresponsible Bush terms in office, Obama’s “Era of Responsibility” is working just fine. Obama simply needs to figure out that any Health Care Reform plan that does NOT contain a “Public Option” is incapable of reforming anything, since the bedrock problem in healthcare is the greedy, for-profit Insurance Industry price-gouging the public with impunity, while litigating to death each and every claim, for delay purposes. A study realease yesterday showed that about 95 percent of the U.S. there is absolutel NO competition among insurers. The legal term for that is “monopoly” and “oligopoly” – where several insurance companies collude to dibby up the price-gouging proceeds among themselves, while leaving the insured in the lurch. The “Public Option” obliterates that fraudulent practice.

Lots of old debunked irrelevant canards on here today. Apparently the insurance companies aren’t the only ones getting desperate at the 11th hour. So how many of the commenters with the most desperately distorted claims are insurance shills, GOP shills, and/or part of that right wing with the bizarre ideology and “special knowledge” that a new report has created quite a buzz about in the blogosphere (you should read the findings; they’re interesting!) –
Let’s debunk the Robert Reich thing for now, although that’s already been addressed on this blog on another thread by another commenter or two or three. This gotcha smear game has been overplayed, but it seems to excite some of you quite a bit. Per Robert:
“Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity, Rush, and the right-wing blogosphere seem interested in a talk I gave in September, 2007 to students in a political science class here at Berkeley, in which I played the role of a presidential candidate so politically incorrect and tone-deaf as to pummel every sacred cow in sight — including the notion that our society could afford and would continue forever to pay whatever amount of money was required to keep everyone alive forever…. I slew many other sacred cows in that mock exercise, some of which are held dearly by the Left. Nonetheless, two years later the Right has exhumed the lecture and taken my words completely out of context purportedly to show that Obama and the Democrats plan death panels.”

“Obama doesn’t like our Constitution that is why he has so many szars,…..”
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Again, you’ll have to get your facts straight if you expect anyone to take your posts seriously.
The ‘czars’ are advisers to the President and have not legislative powers whatsoever.
Czars were used extensively under the Republican president George Bush.
It is only suddenly now that the right wing is trying to demonize ‘czars’ and the current President by pretending there is something evil in those positions.
It’s bogus and its one of the knee-jerk right wing lies.

julieterra ….Czars are a position that is to be created only during a national emergency and the position is to be dissolved when the job of dealing with that emergency is over. A Czar can circumvent Congress.
But last count Bush had a Drug Czar and the Fema director.
Obummer has 32 (as of 2 weeks ago) and is still growing. And no national emergency has been declared.
Wake up!!!
Obama is turning the office of POTUS into a dictator.

candobetter . . . your posts are so lacking in accurate facts as to be completely laughable.
Do some real research.

The bots just keep spinning and never stop—I think that is why they are so dizzy. Anyhoo—–Bots, you are the ones that need to get your facts straight. Obama has already said he doesn’t like the constitution and 2, his CZars have never been used to this extent and serve as a way for Obama to bypass oversight of the other branches since his czars (communists,criminals, thugs) don’t answer to anyone but Obama. Obama is trying to kill our basic freedoms and protections here in the US and must go.

So how’s Obama’s “Era of Responsibility” working for you?
Posted by: Stacey | Oct 17, 2009 4:20:38 PM
***
I’m wondering, have you read Bruce Bartlett’s book or his post at Capital Gains and Games titled Supply Side Economics, R.I.P.? Or are you familiar at all with Paul Krugman’s blog?
Let’s set the record straight here at least a little bit. The Treasury Department officially announced that the federal budget deficit for fiscal year 2009 was $1.4 trillion. I agree that’s not good news by any stretch of the imagination BUT, it’s worth remembering that the OMB had projected a deficit for FY09 of $1.8 trillion. According to Dean Baker: “Given the new information about the deficit, a more reasonable headline [than some of the ones we've seen] would have been, ‘Lower Than Expected Deficit Leaves Room for Stimulus,’ since the government can now spend $200-$400 billion and still have a lower debt than what was projected just two months ago.”
Also, as Paul Krugman explained in August in regards to the huge deficit and the projections into the future,”Net of these assets, the debt in 2019 is 68.9% of GDP…that’s bad, but it’s not horrific either by historical or international standards. On a comparable basis, federal debt hit 109 percent of GDP at the end of World War II, and …. So it’s not really the debts per se, or even the economy; it’s the politics, stupid.” You can google “krugman deficits, debt and the economy” to read the whole thing.
Finally, as others have said, more or less, if you look at the actual numbers (see Michael Ettlinger and Michael Linden), 40% of the fiscal deterioration we’re seeing — the largest contributing factor — can be attributed to Bush policies. 40%!! But that’s not all. Another 12% comes from Bush’s financial rescues (which I can’t get down on him for, and I don’t but I have to point out that it’s wrong to blame Obama for them),and 20% are the result of the economic crisis. President Obama’s share? 16% of the total, most of which is the result of new spending something many, many experts thought, and still think was necessary. I actually think the stimulus should have been bigger and focused on some different things. It makes sense for the government to spend under present circumstances and to run a deficit till the recovery gets legs.

To those who think America has a lock on perfection as opposed to the rest of the world, you need to spend some time abroad and see that what we think is so great is leftovers in other countries. You think our health system is best…go to Europe and see cutting edge medicine being performed without them asking you for your insurance cards first. Our health care policy is built, designed, and driven by profits, and your ability to get “quality care” is predicated on your ability to pay. That includes our children, our most precious resource. Do you think a 5 year old is less deserving of the quality care that someone like Sen. McCain would get? This is absolute BS. These prima donnas think they should get the best health care in the country, but have no problem denying a family the same benefits. And to accept the health insurance industry dictating our health policy over our corrupt politicians is simply again, BS. There’s no reason we have to have or accept corrupt politicians as a way of life. Vote them all out, place term limits, and ban corporate donations and lobbying. That is the only way you’ll have honest government. Doing nothing is simply no excuse, but reinforces their beliefs that Americans are powerless to stop them from lining their pockets. As for the comments of “socialist” countries…we have a good number of “socialist” programs too. Try…Social Security, Medicare, Public Education, Unemployment benefits, Police and Fire Services, etc, etc, etc., the list goes on and on. Tell all those retirees and senior citizens, Medicare recipients, the unemployed getting benefits, and everyone that got a public education, that they are “socialist” and should be damn and ashamed for their betrayal. I will say this though…you’ll be the first one screaming for health care reform if you ever suffer a major illness and your insurance company said it was pre-existing or dropped you. But then again you may not since you may have several millions just laying around to pay a huge hospital bill. I’m sure millions of Americans do too.

“Or are you familiar at all with Paul Krugman’s blog?”
Paul Krugman?! LOL! He didn’t even see this economic crisis coming! He has no credibility at all. And, BTW, taking Bush’s damaging fiscal policies and quadrupling down on them does not make one “fiscally responsible.” It makes one an irresponsible idiot.
Only Peter Schiff, Thomas Sowell, Karl Denninger, Max Kaiser, and a handful of others are telling us the truth about the economy. Americans need to wake up.

Is that why so many Americans go over to Canada to buy their drugs too, because they want inferior health care? Fact is…people don’t die in Canada waiting for health care, but people die in the USA for getting inferior and substandard health health care. Take a drug like Plavix, it cost you 350-400 dollars for a 90 day supply. In Canada, that same drug will cost you 35-40 dollars for the same 90 day supply. If you don’t think this isn’t a rip off, then you deserve to be taken to the cleaners.

julie:
Bush’s czars were over the course of 8 YEARS. Obama’s czars over the course of 8 MONTHS. There’s a huge difference. You are providing an unfair comparison to try to fool us. Nice try.

“Bush’s czars were over the course of 8 YEARS. Obama’s czars over the course of 8 MONTHS. There’s a huge difference. You are providing an unfair comparison to try to fool us. Nice try.”
__________________________________
Again, the right wing likes to pretend that President Obama having ‘Czar’ positions is a new ‘evil’ . . . Bush had many, many Czar positions and the right wing didn’t make a peep about it being ‘evil’.
The whole ‘Czar’ thing is hypocritical, right wing propaganda – latched onto by the mindless.

The DNC has released a Web video claiming that there were 47, but it’s counting multiple holders of the same position. We checked the DNC’s list against Nexis and other news records, and found a total of 35 Bush administration positions that were referred to as “czars” in the news media. (Our list of confirmed “czars,” with news media sources cited, is here.) Again, many of these advisory positions were not new – what was new was the “czar” shorthand. Like the Obama czars, the Bush czars held entirely prosaic administrative positions: special envoys, advisers, office heads, directors, secretaries. The preponderance of czars earned both ridicule and concern in editorials and in media, but no objections from Congress.

Ever hear the words of Robert B. Reich, the former Democrat Labor Secretary under Clinton and a very prominent BO supporter, its on tape…. Reich said “This is what Democrat politicians would say if they could really be honest.” We are going to have to… If you’re very old, we’re not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It’s too expensive. So we’re going to let you die.”

Posted by: Vet1973 | Oct 17, 2009 6:01:33 PM
Vet, try to catch up – your attempts to denigrate Robert Reich and the Democrats have already been proved phony . . .
____________________________________
“Let’s debunk the Robert Reich thing for now, although that’s already been addressed on this blog on another thread by another commenter or two or three. This gotcha smear game has been overplayed, but it seems to excite some of you quite a bit. Per Robert:
“Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity, Rush, and the right-wing blogosphere seem interested in a talk I gave in September, 2007 to students in a political science class here at Berkeley, in which I played the role of a presidential candidate so politically incorrect and tone-deaf as to pummel every sacred cow in sight — including the notion that our society could afford and would continue forever to pay whatever amount of money was required to keep everyone alive forever…. I slew many other sacred cows in that mock exercise, some of which are held dearly by the Left. Nonetheless, two years later the Right has exhumed the lecture and taken my words completely out of context purportedly to show that Obama and the Democrats plan death panels.”
posted by Alyson

Oh My God, this sounds just like “The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!” Get a grip, Obamma.

For every politician there are 10 health care lobbyists. They don’t want health reform. They don’t care if the American people suffer because they make money, very much money off the suffering of others. These lobbyists have better health care than the President, probably even better than Rush Limbaugh. As unemployment rises so with the increase of insurance corporations excluding all kinds of conditions. They are already telling women we’ll pay for your tubal ligation but not your c-section. Pathetic.

The fight for decent health care for Americans is in round 1 and it will get rougher. We the People have already been the insignificant pawns in a hostile takeover of government (so insignificant that 45000 of us are killed every year by this health system of ours, oh well, the price we pay to keep these corporate execs in their private jets, seems only fair) – 380 000 000 dollars spent by the health care industry (who elected them?) in the last months alone to kill any meaningful reform. Many…most in Congress are on the money drip – if they vote against these greedy industry execs, the corporate ‘death panels’ will come to their hospital room at night, disconnect the IV and smother them with a fat ‘negative ad campaign’ pillow…

Only Peter Schiff, Thomas Sowell, Karl Denninger, Max Kaiser, and a handful of others are telling us the truth about the economy. Americans need to wake up.
Posted by: Stacey | Oct 17, 2009 5:24:42 PM
***
LOL!!! That’s a mouthful right there. Karl Denninger, hypocritical fearmongering darling of the tea party set. Hmmm. Know he has a popular blog, and was talking about seeing everyone on his new yacht cuz the housing market was on the upturn and the economy was booming– right before the crisis hit him and his readers upside the head, yes? And now he’s always talking about a pending apocalypse, yes? But hey, he shows up at tea parties. LOL.
Schiff managed to get it right, the economy was going to implode as per his and Ron Paul’s schtick, but either he didn’t seem to understand why or he didn’t give a hoot about his clients’ assets and he lost them all a pretty good chunk of change, yes? And he thinks this economic crisis is a good thing, yes? I seem to remember reading something along those lines. Of course, every other word out of his mouth is hyperinflation– and that is something we have to look out for down the road, I’ll give him that– but I find it pretty hilarious that he’s your economics guru.
Regarding Thomas Sowell, I’m paraphrasing, but he’s actually said that everybody saw the economic crisis coming, including himself. (and isn’t he an ex-Marxist? I thought once you were a Marxist, the right never ever let you change your mind. LOL!!) Actually, he says a lot of bizarre things but he writes well, and he’s a smart guy when he doesn’t let his ideology get in the way– though he isn’t very given to coming up with creative solutions for… well, anything. He’s unlike Friedman in that way. Perfect for the party of no or hell no.
And I notice you don’t mention Shiller, or Roubini, or Baker, as most economics folks do for their foresight of the crisis– not of the tea party ilk, I suppose.
As for Krugman, gosh, I remember him being labeled “shrill” time and time again by the right, for calling out Bush on economic, fiscal and monetary policy and mentioning potential crises– but, bygones, cuz I always like talking to folks that live in an alternate plane of reality.

Beware as Obama aims tiny brains.

If anyone knows about misleading the American people it’s Obama.
I think the Independents that were duped by him in 2008 will not be mislead again in 2012.

Obama’s whole presidency is bogus.
He doesn’t have to govern or lead–the hard decisions are left to Rahm or Axelrod.
No wonder he’s not tired, he doesn’t have to do anything but go on TV or travel around giving speeches.
Obama is having a great time being a celebrity.
Totally bogus.

The reason they watch the network is because they now have a place to commiserate. By definition, railing against the MSM makes Fox News a “fringe” organization. Being on the fringe is not a good thing.

Obama said in March 24, 2007 that he cannot “immediately eliminate” private health insurance, but envisions a single payer system in 10, 15, or 20 years.
He WILL eliminate our private health insurance . . . just not right now. He has admitted it . . . look it up.

Health care for all does not mean we have to destroy what we have now, and replace it with an overly top heavy bureaucracy. If obama really cares Why not do the quick cheep way, of opening free clinics around the country. Also if we sent all the illegal back to what ever country they came from, we could also cut back on unemployment. (But then big business would fire the current gang in the white house)

. . . look it up.
Posted by: EPU | Oct 17, 2009 8:01:25 PM
Where?

Here is Obama in 2003:
“I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we’ve got to take back the White House, we’ve got to take back the Senate, and we’ve got to take back the House.”
Wow, everybody in nobody out. Sounds like a dictatorship.

Chairman Mao would be proud

Maybe Obama has met someone who can campaign as well as he does with smoke and mirrors?

Here’s Obama again in 2008:
“Someone told me this was a Trojan horse for single-payer. Well, it’s not a Trojan horse, right? It’s just right there. I’m telling you. We’re going to get there, over time, slowly, but we’ll move away from reliance on employer-based health insurance as we should, but we’ll do it in a way that we’re not going to frighten people into thinking they’re going to lose their private insurance. We’re going to give them a choice of public and private insurance when they’re in the pool, and we’re going to let them keep their private employer-based insurance if their employer continues to provide it.”
If their employer continues to provide it? Here he is again in May 2007 vowing to eliminate employer based health insurance when elected president:
“But I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be potentially some transition process — I can envision a decade out, or 15 years out, or 20 years out.”

Robin | Oct 17, 2009 8:05:43 PM Where?++++Do a search, there are enough links out on both the 2003 video and his comments in May of 2007. I believe that is what he is referring to.

Well “single payer” would sit just fine with a majority of your fellow Americans, but having seen the Clinton presidency almost crash and burn due to the no-holds-barred opposition from the private corporations who will do anything to preserve their obscene top management pay levels, guess Obama’s smarter than that. He’ll fulfill his election promise (2 to 1 electoral votes, remember?) and the People’s will a step at a time.

Robin | Oct 17, 2009 8:14:06 PM Since 1989, 86 percent of pro-gun groups’ donations have gone to GOP candidates, Boxcar +++++Imagine that, supporting a party that supports the Second Amendment

Conservatives are Americans Too.
Posted by: Rob | Oct 17, 2009 8:11:12 PM
***
True. Have you all seen some of the findings James Carville, Stan Greenberg and Karl Agne have shared regarding Democracy Corps’focus group study of Republican base voters and their worldview. It’s really sad, but the good news is that independents are decidely different than the GOP base. They are interested in moving the country forward, aren’t given to the same paranoia or delusions of “special knowledge” and ultimately they want the United States of America to succeed– not get hopelessly caught up in a ginned up political imbroglio.

Sheesh………….. Just more name calling and smear tactics aimed at people who oppose BO’s Socialist Healthfare Plan………….

Dear wheresmymoney | Oct 17, 2009 8:20:05 PM Bush was AWOL in front of the press – there was little to rebut; the more eloquent Cheney was more or less permanently at ‘an undisclosed location’. More importantly, it is you who lack substance in your arguments: you and your ‘brethren in ideology’ resent the ‘Chosen One’ invoking that ridiculous monniker far more often than Obama-supporters do; you drip irony about date nights (people are interested, shut off the TV if that tiny occasional item bothers you); you say, correct me if I’m wrong here, we should give up all attempts at governing and adopting new policies because of the phenomenon of earmarks. Stick to the issue, man: we’re #37 in the world in health care provision – you really think the French, Italians, Dutch etc deserve better health care than you or I ; we spend twice as much per taxpayer in that sector as other rich countries; more than a 100 of your fellow Americans die needlessly every day because of our dysfunctional medical care and insurance system; the private company CEOs get 10s of millions of dollars to turn a maximum profit on our collective backs – and you’re complaining about an administration that is determined to fix that. Unless you’re a paid lobbyist, a nephew of the health care CEO who got paid $ 125 million this year, or you’re satisfied being # 37 in life, your rationale is inexplicable

Please be kind to the poor liberals……….. They really have been frightened half out of their minds by BO’s lobbyist scare tactics….. This lunatic might actually get elected again…. Yes, I occasionally listen to MSNBC’s Olbermann and Mathews.. but it’s getting harder and harder to laugh at them….. Hard to laugh when you stomach is turning loops……

“The U.S. has some of the best, leading edge health care in the world!”
mdoa | Oct 17, 2009 9:05:33 PM
And the most expensive, bar none. Of course, you don’t see French (who did the first face transplant in the world and first full hand transplant in the world) heading this way. Or see many Italians (where they actually pioneered transplanting a tooth – seriously – into the eye to restore sight to people afflicted with a specific blindness). Oh, but you’ll see plenty of Americans heading out to India to get low cost care because they can’t afford it in the US…
But that’s just documented reality.

so….if you like the way they deliver health car ein Europe…by all means….go to Europe. They’ll be glad to provide you with free health care.

Common sense would tell anyone that we simply can’t afford the huge increases in health insurance every year, as individuals and for the good of the country. That’s not counting the fact that over 45 million Americans are without health insurance, most of them working folk…..
A public health insurance option is the only way to control the runaway greed of the health insurance industry.
Posted by: Lydia | Oct 17, 2009 9:10:05 ***
I’m with you, but I suspect you may have lost a lot of folks at “common sense.”
:>)

What nonsensical stuff. What is the Republican Health Care reform plan? Please, aside from TORT reform and inter-state commerce, what is the plan? Which specific plans have been rejected by the Obama administration?

BO will bend the truth or break it to score political points as he and his lobbyists terrorize the American people with their scare tactics……

“The U.S. has some of the best, leading edge health care in the world!”
mdoa | Oct 17, 2009 9:05:33 PM
***
Just for fun, cuz we’ve heard this meme a lot, let’s take a look at what a recent Pew poll found. From Pew: “Most Americans rate the nation’s health care as no better than average when compared with health care in other industrialized countries. Just 15% say health care in this country is the “best in the world,” while 23% rate it as “above average”; about six-in-ten (59%) view U.S. health care as either “average” (32%) or “below average” (27%).”
So, health care received relatively poor ratings compared with other major U.S. institutions and systems. For example, 82% of Americans say either that the U.S. military is the best in the world (42%) or that it is above average (39%). 65% rate the nation’s scientific achievements and 63% rate the standard of living as the best in the world or above average.
Only the economy seems to rate lower than health care.
Again, from Pew: “Republicans (28%) are far more likely than Democrats (9%) or independents (12%) to say American health care is the best in the world, and conservative Republicans are even more pro American health care (66% say it is the best in the world or above average).”

I don’t understand why these lefties who think life is SO MUCH BETTER in other countries bother to live in America……… immigration is a two way street………………. I’m willing to donate toward a one-way ticket to the nation of their choice…

The corporate system, at this point, is totally corrupt. The only way to actually get back to a fair capitalist system is to take the power back from any corrupt corporate entity–health care, banking, finance. The people still have some on control over the government. Once the corporate system is repaired, true capitalism can be re-established.

“Obama’s language is trite and cliche-ridden”
____________________________________
Not compared to the last President it isn’t . . .

Isn’t it great how BO and his lobbyist fly around the country on the taxpayer dime to demonize and denigrate Americans and American Companies using lies, distortions, and scare tactics to push his Socialist Healthfare Plan..

The corporate “private” health insurance companies increased the price of health care insurance 130% (4x inflation) over 10 years. What will stop another 130%+ increase over the next 10? Health care costs are now over 2 trillion per year now. Health care expenses are destroying the competitive edge of America.
The corporate system, at this point, is totally corrupt. The only way to actually get back to a fair capitalist system is to take the power back from any corrupt corporate entity–health care, banking, finance. The people still have some control over the government. Once the corporate system is repaired, true capitalism can be re-established.

PauJacob wrote: “The only way to actually get back to a fair capitalist system is to take the power back from any corrupt corporate entity–health care, banking, finance. The people still have some control over the government. Once the corporate system is repaired, true capitalism can be re-established.”
Actually the way back to a fair capitalist system is to LET THE FREE MARKET CORRECT THE PROBLEM. If you give the federal government control it will never relinquish that control. Instead it will seek even more control–more power. So instead of true capitalism being the result, the result will be true Socialism.

Today’s Inspirational Govrnment-Run Healthcare Story comes to us from the UK Times. (Don’t be alarmed, though: the British government just doesn’t care as much about its people as our perpetually wise congress does.)
”
NHS staff
THE National Health Service has spent £1.5m paying for hundreds of its staff to have private health treatment so they can leapfrog their own waiting lists.
More than 3,000 staff, including doctors and nurses, have gone private at the taxpayers’ expense in the past three years because the queues at the clinics and hospitals where they work are too long.”

“If you give the federal government control it will never relinquish that control.”
James Danley | Oct 18, 2009 12:02:31 AM
Yeah just like the feds never gave up their regulatory power over airline fares or ARPAnet, right? And thank goodness the free market was allowed to break up the ATT monopoly.

Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Oct 18, 2009 12:08:32 AM
You really ought to provide more complete information.
“. . .those most used were physiotherapy and mental health services, notably cognitive behaviour therapy, private counselling and psychiatric consultations.”

What really gets me mad is when the insurers call up phony studies to support their continued monopoly. I’ve seen the tobacco industry use phony science to tell people that cigarette smoking actually doesn’t cause cancer. (And I’ve lost my father and several other loved ones to smoking.) I’ve seen companies like Enron get accountants like Arthur Anderson to certify their crooked books. I’ve seen the petroleum industry commission phony studies to say that global warming is a myth. What is wrong with these people? They always try to use their excessive profits to buy off “authorities” to certify their BS. It sux. Big money interests may be able to buy alot but we can never let them buy the facts.

“So how can there even BE a private option in Britain?”
Unless you’re an NHS staffer and have taxpayer funds available, there isn’t.
________________________________________
Nonsense. Your lying won’t change the fact that there is a private option in Britain – and it exists in the face of your repeated allegations that a public option destroys the private option.

“It is unwise in the extreme to conclude that if you don’t like the US system today, you will like Baucus or Obama. You won’t which is why by a margin of 53-34 Americans now would prefer the status quo to any of the Democratic proposals.”
_____________________________
Again, more nonsense and guesswork on your part.
“There’s . . . rampant public confusion about what’s meant by “public option,” Nate Silver noted in August. A Penn, Schoen and Berland online poll . . . showed that only 37 percent of the public knew that a “public option” is a government-administered insurance plan…26 percent, meanwhile, thought it meant creating a national health care system like what they have in Great Britain. Consequently, it matters a lot how pollsters word their descriptions.”

Obama’s approach makes the assumption that people will automatically think that he’s for the everyday American guy and is not influenced by the rich people. Rich people like George Soros put Obama in office…there is an agenda on that side of the fence as well. I don’t like things the Insurance cos. have pulled over the years, but I do not want to flush everything and give all control to the government either.

“[AFSCME president Gerry] McEntee led workers in chanting a barnyard epithet to describe Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus’s health care bill, which would levy a new tax on expensive health care plans. He published an op-ed in U.S.A. Today warning, in terms that could be used against Democrats in the midterms, that the plan could tax the middle class and cost workers their health care.”
Make my day.

“[AFSCME president Gerry] McEntee led workers in chanting a barnyard epithet to describe Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus’s health care bill, which would levy a new tax on expensive health care plans. He published an op-ed in U.S.A. Today warning, in terms that could be used against Democrats in the midterms, that the plan could tax the middle class and cost workers their health care.”
Make my day.
Today, October 17, 2009, 7 minutes ago | Fascist Hyena
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Facsist, you already know what’s coming.
When all is said and done, the main initiative that was undertaken under FDR, will be done here.
This health care reform package will pass with increased taxes on the rich to pay for it.
It is now just a matter of where the cutoff is and how much.
I’m guessing that everyone making more than $350,000 (on an increasing scale towards and beyond $1,000,000) will foot the bill. But, if Barack pushes it down to $250,000, he will have still met his campaign pledge!
It worked just fine under FDR and it will work just fine now, because the conditions that existed under FDR exist now.
Also, it looks that the Insurance Industry just lost their anti-trust exemption…too bad!
All of this will take place just in time for the 2010 elections cycle!

Everyone is lying here ! There is nothing but pure specualtion on all sides. The truth is all of this is being done behind close doors. Nobody knows what is going to be the final bill.Fact : we are deep in debt. These people see no ending to the spending and someone will have to pay, the rich ! the democrats say aloud, nay say me , everyone is going to pay,big time ! of course if you are a leech,non working /productive american you have nothing to worry. Perhaps we all should do that stop working and take hand outs from the gov so we all be equal….

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 29% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -10.
Yesterday, October 17, 2009, 10:43:19 PM | Fascist Hyena
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just to set the record straight…the following is the latest “Job Approval Rating Polls”.
It appears that Faux News and Rasmussen are employing the same methods.
Wonder why they are soooo much lower than everyone else?
Poll_____________Date_____Sample__App__Dis__Spread
CBS News______ 10/5 – 10/8____829 A__56%__34%__22%
Associated/GfK__10/1 – 10/5___1003 A__56%__39%__17%
Ipsos/McClatchy_10/1 – 10/5___1296 A__56%__40%__16%
Pew Research___9/30 – 10/4___1500 A__52%__36%__16%
Gallup_______10/14 – 10/16___1547 A__54%__40%__14%
Marist________10/7 – 10/12___913 RV__53%__41%__12%
Quinnipiac_____9/29 – 10/5__2630 RV__50%__41%___9%
FOX News____10/13 – 10/14___900 RV__49%__45%___4%
Rasmussen___10/14 – 10/16__1500 LV__49%__50%__-1%
Average_______9/29 – 10/16__—–____52.8%_40.7%_12.1%

I’ll feel better when the oil speculators get back to forcing $4.00 gas again, and ripping every penny out of our pockets for heating oil and, hopefully the health insurance companies will be able raise their rates as high as they have since 2000, if we’re really lucky there won’t be any regulation on the financial sector so they get back to crashing the economy again….
after all, that’s what ‘freedom’ is all about, having the rich soak the middle class and the poor free of regulation while the government just twiddles it’s thumbs, and gets paid off by the corporations.
I do hope the corporations continue to get tax subsidies.

To those that keep saying Obama and the Dems are going to get us into a Cival war before all this is done. I disagree. If you look back at history – I think this is going to be far more like a Revolutionary war than a civil. Excessive tax, tax without representation (behind closed doors – senators like B. Nelson not even talking to citizens, and Snowe voting against her citizen’s wishes), Govt acting more like royalty – controlling the media, etc… All sets up for another 1776. I just pray that it is a “paperwork revolution – ie VOTE THEM ALL OUT” than one like before.

There is a private option in the UK. It doesn’t lower NHS-supporting tax rates though. If a person uses private medical insurance to enter the system, they can go anywhere, and get near-instantaneous service. NHS isn’t perfect. It can be slow and choice-limiting. You risk losing coverage if you tell doctors “no” on some treatment they insist on, and you disagree with. I believe the NHS was funded by the demise of the extensive national rail system throughout the UK that served, it seemed, everywhere. Wouldn’t it be nice now to still have that system?

Newts d:
So why did Democrats John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson get us into and keep us in Vietnam for 15 years?

look at the polsters , NY Times, the leading liberal propaganda gurus !
Stop drinking that Kool Aid…
Posted by: Not a sheep | Oct 18, 2009 1:59:13 AM
Alrighty then, here are more Public Option polling results, all from October. I’m sure you’ll find one to your liking…or not.
Support/Oppose
62/31 CBS News
61/34 Quinnipiac
60/27 Marist
55/38 Pew
53/42 Ipsos/McClatchy*
46/37 Rasmussen**
*Tied with CNN for most accurate pollster in the 2008 election outcome
**Choice pollster of conservatives

This is why most politicians are lawyers. Insurance companies are not trying to stop health care reform, they know that the will of the president is to make it happen, rather they are trying to influence it. Think about it, they have everything to gain (more younger people into the system will offset additional costs). Also, it is true that insurance companies are hiring more lobbyists (6:1) in this debate, however the “devil is in the details.” By hiring more lobbysists, they have a better chance of changing legislation into a more favorable light. President Obama is merely casting blame on self-interest groups, like insurance companies, because he knows Americans despise lobbyists. By putting the reason why health legislation failed on insurance companies, lobbyists, etc… Americans in turn will turn sides just to spite the opposition.

One of the central features of the proposed legislation would allow millions of individuals whose income levels currently preclude them from qualifying for Medicaid to meet eligibility requirements for the program. States must put up a five percent match to help cover the additional costs. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid made no bones about what he plans to do to avoid any political fallout back home. He has stated unequivocally that he will not allow a health care bill to come to the floor if it increases Medicaid costs for Nevada. The Senate Finance Committee bill would exempt four states—Michigan, Oregon, Rhode Island, and (yes) Nevada—from the requirement to pay the five percent funding match. The alleged justification for making the exception is that those states have been the hardest hit by the recession.
The Senate should rebel against Senator Reid feathering his own nest. Other states shouldn’t have their budgets savaged by another huge unfunded mandate coming down from Washington while watching Reid and a handful of his cronies grin like bandits counting their loot.
The health care reform debate is starting to focus attention on what happens when arrogance meets partisanship. It is almost impossible to pass legislation that will cover all of the uninsured, reduce the overall cost of health insurance, and “not add a dime” to the deficit as President Obama promised. There are going to be winners and losers if the legislation passes. The losers will be young Americans and healthy policy holders who will have to pay much higher costs to insure or subsidize the elderly, the uninsured, and individuals with health problems or unhealthy life styles.

Presidential Job Approval Ratings
Approve/Disapprove
54/40 Gallup
49/50 Rasmussen Reports*
49/45 FOX News
53/41 Marist
56/34 CBS News
52.2%/42.0% RCP Average
*Choice pollster of conservatives

Obama’s not going to abide with those who break the truth or bend it??? LMAO at that because BO’S BS is nothing but bending the truth and lying!!!! Get Real!

good post

“Rajaratnam and his wife were also major contributors to a number of Democratic campaigns, giving a total of $118,000 to, among others, the Senate campaigns of Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer and the presidential campaigns of Mrs. Clinton and Barack Obama.”

RCP average approval among registered/likely voters: 50.33%.

“Democracy, after all, is not about policy but about process: not what policies one chooses to adopt but how important policy decisions are reached. To this point, it is not a distinction many Republicans have understood….
…The party that drove Arlen Specter from its ranks because he believed he owed the nation his best considered judgment rather than fealty to a political club now weighs whether to turn its betrayal-obsessed wrath on yet another in its circle.
Here’s the thing. One campaigns as a member of a party (Madison’s warnings against parties — permanent factions — having been long since disregarded) but on election steps across an invisible line and becomes not a representative of a political faction but a part of the government sworn to serve the nation’s interests rather than the cause of partisan advantage. That may lead one to vote for or against a proposition, but for reasons other than, and far more important than, the desire to be true to one’s team. Olympia Snowe is guilty of no more than having taken her oath of office seriously. It’s something more of her colleagues should try.”
Former Rep. Mickey Edwards (R-OK),from a piece at The Atlantic

“The ultimate measure of our progress is how faithfully we refrain from imposing on the individual freedom of those who go about their lives without harming others.”
__________________________________
Gross profits at the expense of the health of other people is certainly ‘harming others’.

Most accurate pollster in 2008 according to Fordham study
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Oct 18, 2009 1:37:35 PM
Here we go again! Fascist Hyena claims for the umpteenth time that Rasmussen Reports is the most accurate pollster based on a bogus “study.”
The infamous “Fordham Study” was a simple list of pollsters that was compiled November 5th, 2008 just hours after the election. It was clearly labeled “Initial Report.” All the “study” did was compare the final pre-election polls from 23 polling organizations against the popular vote count to see which ones came closest. The counting of ballots at that point had Obama winning by a 6 point margin, 52% to 46%. But those early numbers were WRONG — the FINAL result was that Obama had won by 7 points, 53% to 46% (52.93% to 45.65%).
Rasmussen had Obama winning by 6 points: 52% to 46%. So did Pew. And that looked good on November 5th, but not so good when the OFFICIAL results were announced.
CNN/Opinion Research had Obama winning by 7 points: 53% to 46%. So did Ipsos/McClatchy. Both of their polls were in perfect agreement with the final, OFFICIAL popular vote count.
Anyone with half a brain and a basic grasp of grammar school math knows that 53% is closer to 52.93% than 52%. It would seem that Fascist Hyena is lacking in one or both of those areas. Or, more likely, he’s just plain dishonest.

Modern, none of those industries are exempt from anti-trust legislation. Although, certain parts of the food industry (ADM, for example) are, like the insurance industry, heavily dependent on billion dollar subsidies.

“Are you actually trying to tell me that federally mandated yearly physicals are more important to our health than food?”
___________________________________
The right wingers would charge us and try to make a profit from us breathing the air if they could.
Nice human beings.

If BO was a white man, this bill would have already been approved a long time ago.
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Does the fact that we’ve previously only had white presidents and yet this bill wasn’t approved “a long time ago” hurt your argument?

I thought the stimulus bill was passed in 02/2009? Was Bush still president then?
Posted by: Modern Progressive
Bush’s deficits are irrelevant, I get it,
all economic problems started 2009

What does Bush’s deficits, .
Posted by: Concerned in OH
Bush had deficits ? please elaborate..
no one seem to know about that, thank you for sharing that valuable info

Spell it out. Spell out how insurance and health care is critically more important than food, shelter, and clothing. Please.
Posted by: Modern Progressive | Oct 18, 2009 3:01:53 PM
***
You’re funny. Again with the twisting and flapping. I never said one was more critically important than the other. At any given time, which is the most critically important is dependent on quite a few things, which can vary. I said they were different. One would hope you’d know why, but, in brief, it’s because a person knows when he needs to eat and how much it costs. It stays pretty much the same. He or she knows what types of clothes he needs for survival. It stays pretty much the same. He or she also knows he needs shelter. It stays pretty much the same. All those needs are pretty basic. You may want more than you need, but you only need so much and predicting what you need is pretty straightforward (unless you yourself complicate it.) Health care is different. You don’t know when or whether you’ll need care or for what— and when you do need it, the care can be extremely expensive. Not many people can afford to pay major medical costs out of pocket. So right away you know health care can’t be made, marketed and sold like bread or parkas, right? Or don’t you get that either? We pool risk and buy health care via insurance– which means someone else is making many of our decisions regarding how much to pay, what is medically necessary, and so on and so forth. And paying for your health care is actually a cost for your insurer. They’re financially incented NOT to pay, or to find a way not to cover you if you’re sick. That’s also different.
I do think we need to provide food, shelter and clothing to those without– and in fact, we do. But people who sell clothes, houses and food make profits by selling us what we need– and, of course, making us think we need more than we do. They’re not financially incented to NOT get that food, clothing and shelter to us when we need it most. Pretending you don’t understand the difference is disingenuous and silly.

Every time that the POTUS and his merry band.. throw stones.. they forget about their glass house… live by spin, die by spin.. spin wears thin..

“I wonder if you could add up like 6 or 7 years of Bush deficits and you still wouldn’t match Obama’s first year.”
Posted by: Concerned in OH
_________________________________
Nonsense, the deficit for 2009 was already projected at $1.2 trillion dollars in January BEFORE Obama took office.

DOESN’T REFORM MEAN BETTER? IN THIS CASE – THE OPPOSITE!!!!!

“OBAMA IS IN A REAL SWEAT TO GET THIS THING PASSED BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE SLEEPING GIANT IS WAKING UP.”
__________________________________
The sleeping giant? You mean like the people who want the Bush and Cheney crowd back in office pretending they can bully the entire world, bankrupt the economy by giving tax breaks to the wealthy, torturing and handing out contracts to their buddies in big oil and Halliburton?
Get real.

Don’t like liberal politics of the Obama White House??? Simple enough, VOTE IN 2010/2012 FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT….I INTEND TOO….VOTE YOUR DISSATISFACTION..PROBLEM SOLVED…

“Don’t like liberal politics of the Obama White House??? Simple enough, VOTE IN 2010/2012 FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT….”
___________________________________
Sorry pal, we just had 8 years of the Republicans and their crowd – nobody in their right mind is going to be voting for that nonsense again. We have not forgotten the 8 years of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the Republicans. No thanks . . .

12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, October 18, 2009
For most of Medicare’s 45 million beneficiaries, an overhaul will improve coverage by beefing up drug benefits, preserving access to physicians, paying for more preventive care and putting Medicare on firmer financial footing.
“Lies were spread this summer, and many seniors were misled,” said Lynda Ender, director of advocacy for the Senior Source, a nonprofit agency that serves older adults in Dallas. “I’m hopeful about health care reform. I see a lot of good coming out of it for people on Medicare.”
To reassure seniors, the Obama administration, congressional Democrats and organizations such as AARP launched campaigns this fall emphasizing that an overhaul will help, not hurt, most Medicare beneficiaries.
Seniors’ opposition has fallen to 43 percent in the latest AP poll.

No thanks to the Congressional Democrats!
Thanks Democrats!
Posted by: Concerned in OH
are you really that blind to the Bush years that you refuse to acknowledge the dreadful shape they left of America in at the end of Bush/Cheney terms? You’re actually going to blame the last 8 YEARS on the congressional Dems?
it’s amazing that the republican/rightwingers rant about Obama ‘owning’ this and that, and yet there are almost no republicans who can ‘own up to’ the Bush terms being an unmitigated disaster for America.

“Rasmussen also reports that when large asteroids hit the earth, 57% of Americans think it’s not good for the economy, and that it will have no effect on the global eco-system.”
What a silly thing to say! Everyone knows Rasmussen couldn’t care less what Americans think.
So get it straight: Fifty-seven percent (57%) of LIKELY VOTERS think it’s not good for the economy, and that it will have no effect on the global eco-system when large asteroids hit the earth.
;-)

I’m reading a lot of propaganda from the white house bloggers on here. What will happen if your blogs and information are not effective changing public opinion about health care reform?

Per Roll Call: “Senate Republicans, acknowledging they lack the votes to block a health care reform bill outright, have implemented a comprehensive political strategy to delay, define and derail.”
As if that’s something new for them or their paid tea party astroturfers. LOL!! Beware of what you read, and just say no to the party of no. We can pass health care reform with a robust public option and achieve near universal coverage like every other First World nation on Earth, and like normal American citizens want. We don’t have to bend to the whims of the insurance lobby and the party in their pocket for both corporate profiteering and divisive reasons.

Presidential Job Approval Ratings
Approve/Disapprove
53/41 Gallup
49/50 Rasmussen Reports*
49/45 FOX News
53/41 Marist
56/34 CBS News
52.0%/42.2% RCP Average
*Choice pollster of conservatives

First it was banks who were evil.
The it was doctors who were evil.
Now it’s insurance companies who are evil.
When does your turn come?
This is the world of Richard Milhous Chavez Obama.

Yes, julieterra, I do have the VOTE and fully intend to use it in 2010/2012 as others like me will….DEAL WITH IT!!!!

In the wake of Obama’s speech to Congress, the ObamaCare effort won a brief moment of majority support, 51% to 46%.  Opposition rose as high as 56% two weeks later, and had bounced around in the low- to mid-50s ever since.  The current 54% is about the average since Congress went on its August recess.  The 42% support rating is the second-lowest in that period, after a 41% recorded three weeks ago.  Even in the summer, with all of the town hall dramas across the nation, it only got to 42% once; support mainly remained in the mid-40s.

Ah, the Fascist is in lockstep with the party of No, and their extremely, cough, cough, proactive and innovative strategy of “delay, define and derail.”
The most recent CBS News poll found that 53% of Americans believe “fundamental achanges are needed” to the U.S. system. n additional 31% believe our system “has so much wrong with it that we need to completely rebuild it.” So, there you go. A combined total of 84% want, at a minimum, some serious changes to the status quo. The appetite for an overhaul is growing.
Where I’ve noticed grumbling is that the majority of normal, intelligent people, those not given to falling victim to scare tactics or bizarre conspiracy theories or delusions of “special knowledge”, want a robust public option tied to Medicare rates on a national insurance exchange that anyone can choose to sign up for and pay into. They also want the anti-trust exemption for private insurers repealed. And they don’t want the insiders paid any hush money via insider deals. Fingers crossed that the senate has the chutzpah to put what the majority of normal people really want in the bill. Then the polls will look much different :>)
If that doesn’t happen, then we still need to pass the reforms we can without giving in to the paranoid and divisive mentality of the party of no and their profit-motivated sugar daddies– and tweak the system as we go. Getting an adaptable structure into place is the key. It’s time to enter the 21st century as other First World nations have.
Toward that end, Harry Reid needs to be the public option in the bill, and perhaps, allow Senators the opportunity to strip it out of the bill, rather than vice versa. If he doesn’t include the public option in the bill, then it will take 60 votes to add it on the floor. If he DOES include some kind of public option in the bill, then it will take 60 votes to strip it out on the floor. The latter gives the good guys in this challenge-debate-fight an advantage.

Just so that the health insurance industry lobbyists don’t feel too lonely this morning here: Good morning to you guys – let’s all spare a thought for the 40 or so Americans who died unnecessarily during the night because you are defending your CEO’s right to a $ 20 million annual paycheck, and our country’s right to remain the rich country in which it is most dangerous for ones health to get sick.
Posted by: Robin | Oct 19, 2009 9:59:03 AM
***********
How many soldiers were killed in Afghanistan and how many jobs have been lost while we waste time on this power grab by the white house and their democrat friends?

How many soldiers were killed in Afghanistan and how many jobs have been lost …
Posted by: Jenny | Oct 19, 2009 1:49:33 PM
If only you’d been asking that for the past several years… how many soldiers were killed and under-resourced in Afghanistan while we were starting and engaging in an unnecessary war on borrowed money from China, billions of dollars of which were grossly mismanaged by defense contractors, while taxcuts to the rich were passed without matching cuts in spending, while a housing bubble grew and imploded, while the deficit grew, while the financial industry engaged in corrupt activity with little oversight (if any), while jobs were lost and the entire economy was hurtled toward the brink of a cliff (all while the GOP maintained the fundamentals of the economy were strong), while health care reform was kicked down the road along with equal pay for equal work and good energy and climate policy, and the Interior Department engaged in vast corruption…
Sigh.
Slowly but surely we’re taking steps toward correcting the multiple disasters. My heart goes out to the troops lost and their loved ones. At least we know we’ll base our strategy in Afghanistan on more than an oil cowboy’s gut.
And we’ll pass health care reform. Something people with clarity, foresight, compassion and good business sense have been trying to do for a century.
Don’t be distracted by the GOP’s “new” strategy of “delay, define and derail.” As you can see, every “new” idea from the GOP is the same old, same old. LOL!!!

Alyson and Robin, I see you’re on here full force defending the health care legislation. You both are making a valiant effort. But you are not paying attention to the American people. They don’t want it.
Where were you, Alyson, when Bush declared war on Iraq? Were you protesting it or do you have an ulterior motive to protest now? Perhaps you have a large investment in obama and I don’t mean financially.
The American people do not want socialism. The more you try to push it the more they will push back. I see the same socialists on these boards over and over. There are 5 or so regulars including both of you. I see new names of people against health care on these boards all the time. They are not just GOP’s. And we all know that the GOP is losing people. It’s the Independents, it’s the moderate Dems and maybe a few liberals. I like how you try to put a face on your enemy – Fox, GOP’s, right wing. You know the truth – there are many more who cannot be labeled and that scares you. Axlerod and Emmanual are scared too.

Robin, maybe you should look at both sides of the situation and see where this socialist administration is taking us through their foreign and domestic policies. We have a trillion dollar deficit and they want to add to it by socializing health care. You think insurance companies are corrupt and only care about making money? What will happen when the government is the insurance company? And, how will this health care reform create jobs? Will it create government jobs? If so, who pays for government jobs?
Really, does this make any sense to you at all? We don’t have the promised 3.5 million jobs from the stimulus money (a trillion more we didn’t have in the first place). And we’re going to trust the government with our health care?
No.

Where were you, Alyson, when Bush declared war on Iraq? Were you protesting it
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Yes. Absolutely!!!
***
Perhaps you have a large investment in obama and I don’t mean financially.
***
Not sure what that means. I have children so in that manner I have an investment in assuring the country is never again in the hands of pro-war, anti-science, anti-progress wingnuts. I do like Obama, but at the beginning of the primary I cut very fat checks for both Clinton and Obama. My goal? No more wingnuts in the WH — or preferably elected office. I’m invested in this country, that’s what I’m invested in.
As for being a socialist and scared– I’m neither. I think people who call Democrats, progressives, and American liberals “socialists” ( as well as Marxists and communists and fascists) are missing a few screws, or have been driven over the edge by something– it’s totally bizarre to me. It seems as if their anger and sour grape w(h)ine has driven a group in mass toward a nervous breakdown– and I’m actually not saying that to be mean. It’s how I see it. I mostly think that’s sad, and that its proof we need much better education in this country. And possibly better mental health care.

Alyson, I suggest you look up the definition of socialism and also look at the people in obama’s administration. I don’t think you understand what you are supporting.

I suggest you look up the definition of socialism and also look at the people in obama’s administration. I don’t think you understand what you are supporting.
Posted by: Jenny | Oct 19, 2009 5:08:10 PM
***
I know what socialism is. I’ve studied political and economic theories (albeit not to any great extent but certainly enough to know we’re not moving toward being a socialist country). I’ve been to a socialist country (Belarus) as well as several social democracies (which is different), and I have friends who are immigrants from both socialist countries and social democracies. I don’t want to live in a socialist country. But we already live in a country that incorporates elements of socialism (see Ryan’s post) and capitalism into a mixed economy. Countries in Europe take that a step further by liberalizing health care, often child care and rail. If that’s what you’re afraid of, then I’d have to ask why and also how do you define socialism and being a socialist? And how do you define capitalism and being a capitalist? 100% capitalism , or some percentage of capitalism in a mixed economy? Because to me (and I’m not alone) it certainly sounds like your side is the side that is mixed up, scared, and scaremongering– or simply being nefarious for partisan purposes.
The funny thing is we’re not even talking about socializing medicine or health care, just a small portion of health insurance, or the pooling of risk. And yet, all the socialist claims. It’s silly.
As for the people in Obama’s admin and cabinet, as it turns out, I like Rahm (most of the time), Hillary, General James Jones, Gates, Austan Goolsbee, Kathleen Sebelius, Janet Napolitano, Joe Biden, David Axelrod, Peter Orszag, Robert Gibbs and so on– and I don’t think they’re scary. I’m not one prone to conspiracy theories. In fact, my issues with the insurance lobby come from direct experience rather than being prone to falling for scaremongering or rhetoric– I worked in the health insurance and managed care sector for 16 years, and when Hillary was trying to do reform in the 90s my boss flew on his private jet to DC nearly every weekend. I find Wendell Potter to be spot on.

ALL THIS DISCUSSION IS A WASTE. WHEN OBAMA GETS ALL THE “JUNK” HE WANTS, BY THEN THE DOLLAR WILL BE PRETTY MUCH NEXT TO WORTHLESS AND WE WILL DELIVERED TO THIRD WORLD STATUS – NOT MEANT TO BE FUNNY.

NOT MEANT TO BE FUNNY.
Posted by: Manitu | Oct 19, 2009 9:57:07 PM
No, not funny. Perhaps just paranoid, alarmist, bizarre, desperate and in keeping with the GOP strategy to “derail”?
According to a memo (obtained by CNN) Conservatives for Patients’ Rights (CPR)is urging tea party organizations and conservative think tanks to join them in a coordinated approach to attacking health reform. The memo argues that a synchronized messaging strategy will help “to deliver a decisive ‘knock out’ punch” to health care legislation. they’ve hired a swift-boat style lobbyist.
Meanwhile, check out the results of the latest WaPo-ABC poll. People want a public option more than they want bipartisanship or Republican-style health care reform. Nevertheless, the DNC has delivered mops to the RNC. We’ll see whether they have to the courage to grab a mop or two and help clean up the mess left behind by the implementation Republican “ideas” for the past 8-12 years.

WASHINGTON POST POLL? POST IS PRETTY MUCH A BRANCH OF THE DEM PARTY – WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? TRY RASMUSSEN. OH, I FORGOT RASMUSSEN IS NOT VERY CREDITABLE.

RASMUSSEN IS NOT VERY CREDITABLE.
Posted by: Manitu | Oct 20, 2009 5:58:32 AM
***
And many don’t consider it as CREDIBLE as other polls either.

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