Public Option: It’s Back

So Baucus went,
apoplectic?”
He went to, “DEFCON 1?”
See what $3 million in donations from the insurance industry will buy you?
A U.S. Senator more concerned with corporate lobbyists than with his constituents’ interests, desires, health, and lives.

You are exactly right Andrew. And what the heck was Mary Landrieu talking about? The CBO just released a report saying that a public option would come under budget and reduce the deficit over the next 10 years. Her state, Louisiana as some of the WORST health care in the nation. She has NO IDEA what she is talking about.

This is the best version of the public option. (national plan, negotiated rates, opt-out allowed)
It will allow the public option to demonstrate its effects compared to states without it.
If you have a wavering Senator in your state, I think you should contact them to support this version.

Why is Reid insisting that Some states get a larger percent to fund medicaid than others? He wants Neveda,Flordia and New York to get more in Medicaid payments and the other states not. Why would we want to fund his re-election for poop like that?

Excellent — FREE health care!

Marion -
You’re talking about Medicaid. The House version of the public option would be tired to Medicare rates, which is funded directly by the Federal Goverment and is not distributed to the States.
Federal support to the states for Medicaid is a separate issue from the public option and how it sets its rates of reimbursement.

yay, public option…take that granny..now we both have medicare

Opt out? Kinda like the states who wanted to opt out of the stimulus? How many states opted out of that again? It reminds me of that giant check Gov. Jindal showed off only weeks after he threatened to opt out of the stimulus. Go ahead Sen. Landrieu opt out of public option. Well see.

But…the public option most likely now is one that would allow states to opt-out.
Hal Horvath | Oct 22, 2009 4:14:23 PM
I like this idea a great deal. It capitalizes on the powerful concept of states being incubators for innovation. It is also a move by the Feds that actually INCREASES states rights for once. It’s really tough to see a legitimate argument against it.

No matter what the Dems say or pass for health care..it is all Unconstitutional; they can not mandate a requirement on the American people to pay a part of their salary (their property) to buy something offered “only” by thte government. This actually falls under the “Anti-Slavery Laws”; the government can not direct a citizen to use their own property to buy something soley owned by the government. It is all Unconstitutional. Media and Journalists..do your work and ask this question to the Dems and see what they say, then investigate it yourself.

To Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA): I think if you asked people “do you want a war in Iraq but it would force the government to go bankrupt” they would say no.
I think if you asked people “do you want a Wall Street Bailout but it would force the government to go bankrupt” they would say no.
I think if you asked people “do you want cookies but it would force the government to go bankrupt” they would say no.
How about simply, “Do you want me to give you a million dollars, but it will kill your children” they would say no.

I think Republicans here are in deep denial about two things:
1) The Public Option will pass both Houses of Congress. Only details need to be ironed out, but a public option is in one way or another. The fact that the opponents of a Public Option are in the process of flipping out whenever asked about it is all the evidence one needs.
2) The Public Option is VERY POPULAR in this country (despite what FOX “news” says) and when people are given details of the actual public option policy (that people without health insurance will be given the option to purchase government run health insurance) support RISES even further.
Republicans somehow believe that providing health care to people, while making existing plans more affordable will somehow lead to reprisals against the Democrats — this is what happens when you listen to propaganda “news” networks like FOX. It’s time for conservatives to give up on this fantasy.
The Democrats don’t want to “destroy” health care or any other ridiculous thing you claim. We are on the side of the people; you are on the side of the insurance companies. It’s really as simple as that.

In other words, the liberal blogs were right all along and the highly paid celebrity reporters were wrong. Next time, listen to Senator Sherrod Brown not just the right-wing Democrats.

My God, Mary Landrieu’s dumb. I’m sorry I ever voted for her.

We wasted billions on destructive wars. For a few billion more we get dependable health care. Get it done and fill in the details later.

Such distortion in this issue……
Majority of AMERICANS WANT the public option and for goodness sakes -its the HUMANE thing to do!
WHO CARES ABOUT OLYMPIA SNOWE???
let her face her constituents when she votes no and that Landrieu too!
I am SICK, SICK, SICK of corporate greed!!!

Mary Landrieu is a moron, which is no secret. Also, WHO elected Snowe President???? All I know is in poll after poll Americans are CLEAR that we want a public option and a Democratic President AND a Democratic congress had better deliver it, or they will find themselves out on their butts come 2010 and 2012. This is our ONE chance to get it done. Americans take care of Americans.

I am absolutely in support of a true public option as it shaping up to be in the House.
I am outraged by the idea of the opt-out that pushes the health insurance/care reform fight out into every single state.
I do not want my health insurance to be used as a political football for years to come. This puts it in hostage mode.
I am furious about all of the tricks and gimmicks.
If you’re worried about how it gets paid for, debate that and come up with the best way… don’t make it your excuse for not supporting the public option… that’s BS.
No true public option, that cuts costs and is available to all Americans without any tricks or gimmicks attached/
No mandate!
You want to give us a crappy bill, at least take the mandate out.
Here’s hoping the House will prevail!

arkievet, do you have any actual numbers to back up your claims, because we’d love to see them.

Hey Americans, you need the public option. I am a Canadian and if any of our politicians tried to take away our single payer system, they would be out of office very quickly. Don’t let the corrupt health care executives deceive you into believing Canada’s health care is poor. In my city, we have two major hospitals which have both recently gotten newly renovated emergency wings. Its not fair that you guys have to pay thousands of dollars a year to be covered. Imagine what you could do with that money if the corrupt health care companies weren’t gouging you?

What do ya know, Snowe thinks it should wait ’til after Christmas. What’s the rush? I’m sure this old USA has a lot of years left in it. One of these days…

For ill-informed, self-serving, so called Representatives to have the power to opt out of the public option in their state is just wrong! These are the very states that need healthcare the most, and they are not representing the people in their state, but confirming their support for the Insurance Corporations!

I’m still not sure why they just don’t expand Medicare to include anyone who wants or needs it – no income caps. Allow the insurance industry to operate independently, alongside Medicare, which would essentially become a public option. Allow people the right to not purchase insurance if they don’t want it (lots of people don’t use traditional doctors).
Seems silly to overhaul the whole health care system, when all we really need to do in ensure that everyone who needs health care has access to it.

I believe that I heard last night that by calling it Medicare Part E. the male Senator from Arkansas was now on board.

Deductibles? Copays? Dental? Vision? Anybody know what this thing covers? Didn’t think so…. Keep blindly supporting what you know nothing about.

Single payer plan all the way. This is what America needs and wants by the vast majority of people and that is why it has been resureected from the dead – because so many people want it. No townahll yelling and screaming and slandering – just good honest grass roots calling your congressman/senaotr and letting them know if they want to be reelected they best have the single payer option in the bill.

Those who stand in the way of the public option will be LISTED and
VOTED OUT !

jhw539
I have nothing against states’ rights, but I like individual rights even better. I do now understand how a STATE opting out would benefit anyone. Does that mean that the state is deciding what options will be made available to the citizens of that state? That doesn’t seem right.

I DARE the DEMS to pass this with a Public Option. The plan would not begin until 2013. This is exactly 3 years after the VOTERS rise up and dump these fools. We let them know LOUDLY in August WE DO NOT WANT A GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER OUR HEALTH CARE. Which the Public option is step 1. Pass it we need ore plumbers and lobbyists and new Congressmen.

If you are a Democratic Senator, the choice is really simple. Vote for public option and become unemployed.
Those that vote for public option will be defeated in thier next election.
Reid is going to get beat anyway, so what does he have to lose?

Those who do not want a public option are the ones who are firmly in the back pocket of the health care industry. Stop playing stupid Jonathan Karl.

I have nothing against states’ rights, but I like individual rights even better. I do now understand how a STATE opting out would benefit anyone. Does that mean that the state is deciding what options will be made available to the citizens of that state? That doesn’t seem right.
jock59801 | Oct 22, 2009 4:56:41 PM
At the state level, government is far more representative of the people. It is fundamentally more democratic. Pushing the decision to participate down to the state level is a pretty close approximation of letting the citizens of that state choose their system.

Yes! The public option is competition! The most American system of all! May the best managed and run health plan win!

TJ: free market is great, but it can not be “free to work” anymore. Too much govt in there already. You can start with SS, Medicare and just keep on going. Entitlements. It’s what USA’s 20 something yr olds are all about. That’s the entitlement generation…and look what those of “entitled” backgrounds are capabale of. Getting dumber, as eager people from OTHER countries take their jobs.

For you that think a Public Option is just a step towards eliminating Health Insurance Companies…I hope you are correct. However, it probably won’t totally get rid of them. Mergers will take it down to 2-3 very well run companies, selling high premium Cadillac plans, and low premium Obamahater plans (to those who won’t take the Public Option based on ideology, or ignorance.)
“For Profit” has no place in health care.

Hey Americans, you need the public option. I am a Canadian and if any of our politicians tried to take away our single payer system, they would be out of office very quickly. Don’t let the corrupt health care executives deceive you into believing Canada’s health care is poor. In my city, we have two major hospitals which have both recently gotten newly renovated emergency wings. Its not fair that you guys have to pay thousands of dollars a year to be covered. Imagine what you could do with that money if the corrupt health care companies weren’t gouging you?
Posted by: Chris
Chris, I believe you are confused. This bill would mandate that all Americans buy insurance — so that makes those greedy insurance companies happy. Wouldn’t you be happy if your government passed a law making it mandatory that everyone buy your product? Right now, not everyone needs insurance, so not everyone buys it. Some people simply pay as they go if they need medical care – lots of single folks and young families chose to do that rather then pay thousands of dollars for insurance. That will soon change though – this bill will erase that freedom.
By the way, a single-payer medical system is not “free” just as “public option” would not be free. In Canada, you pay for single-payer every time you earn money or purchase something – you pay for it big time.
Public option would not be free. People would pay for it just like they pay for any other insurance program, but most likely, there would be a sliding scale and perhaps some kind of voucher for those who meet certain income qualifications.

The time has come for cutback in the Administrative and Congressional costs. We need immediate measure to limit all states to one senator and 2 representatives. In addition the remaining members should pay for their own airplanes, travel expenses, postage and insurance. The secret service benefit of ex-presidents should cease immediately and for all future former presidents. This “change I can believe in” and the savings from dropping these benefits could fund highway, bridge projects and health care for all Ameericans.

Hal, destroy healthcare? What are you talking about? Surely you aren’t suggesting that seniors are the only group in this great nation that should received affordable healthcare. Actually seniors are getting shafted as well. Most seniors are living on a fixed income why should they have to spend money for a supplemental policy! So some Insurance executive can buy a bigger house while they barely have enough left for food! Once again the insurance company wins off the backs of seniors too! So who’s side are you on. A vote against the Public Option is a vote for the insurance companies.

Um, no, his understanding of the polls is not mistaken. The Gallup poll has been debunked b/c it, like most polls, uses leading language to pitch the option for which it is supposedly polling.
The majority do not want the ‘public option’, and it becomes utter poison when people understand what it will mean to health care in this country.

Amen!

As one with pre-existing conditions who has seen her insurance premiums as a self-employed professional almost double in three and a half years I WANT the public option and I want it now. For years I have struggled to maintain insurance, sometimes even going without it, and now am middle-aged and completely uninsurable under present conditions if I cannot keep up with the $820 per month my insurer is demanding now.
Reid needs to rein in his reluctant Blue Dogs and make it clear to them that anyone who can’t get behind the Dem plan for a 60 vote procedural vote to survive a filibuster will find himself/herself WITHOUT any support from the DNC and WITH a primary opponent in the next round of elections. For once in your lives, Dems, play hardball with your members the way the Republicans do with theirs. Make them fall in line or pay the consequences.

“the silent majority who wants a first world health care system in the US. ”
More ignorance from lefties? How surprising. The US has the best health care in the world. But yeah, don’t let that stop you from ruining it for your socialist utopian vision.

All’s I know is I am in no way for the ‘Public Option’ if it ends up raping puppies!

Senator Mary Landrieu has been making comment after comment that is insulting to the intellegnece of the public. Her assumptions are all clearly showing her to have sold her soul to the health insurance companies. Her original comment about the polls being in favor of the public option was that people said yes because they thought it would be free and everyone wants something for nothing. If she keeps accusing her voters of being dumb, she is going to find herself without voters. But then again maybe she just cares for her rich friends.

Typical.
The “news” media always lags behind. I’ve know all this time that there was no way the public option was dead. It’s like what happened with the recession. Media kept asking themselves :”are we in a recession?” for months after it was crystal clear we were in one.
Way to live in a bubble! News,my foot.

Any poll that simply asks the question – “Do you support a public option?” is completely misleading because it lacks the necessary context.
If you ask people – “Are you aware that unfunded entitlements are already in place – to an amount equal to $175,000 per every man, woman, and child in the U.S.?
If you ask people – “Are you aware that Medicare will be completely broke by 2018?
If you ask people – “Are you aware the one of the largest drivers of cost increases for healthcare, is the expansion of government healthcare programs like Medicaid and Medicare, which pay only a fraction of actual costs?” – and “Are you aware that any expansion of government healthcare programs will inevitably lead to huge increases in private health insurance, lowering of standards of care, etc., as the number of those who are able to pay the true costs are reduced, while the number who are covered under fractional reimbursement policies are are increased?
If you ask people – “Are you aware that in a recent large poll of physicians (by IBD/TIPP) – approximately 45% of doctors surveyed said they would consider quitting medicine if a public option reform system is put in place?” – and “Are you aware that the AMA which supposedly supports some reform, represents only 18% of doctors in this country?
ASK THESE QUESTIONS FIRST!!
Then the number of those who will support another looter class entitlement program will be very close to the actual percentage of people who are members of the looter class.
This country was founded on personal responsibility. There is NOTHING in the Constitution that allows the government to steal money from one group of people, and give it to another group of people, to pay for goods and services that they should be personally responsible for.

Nice of Olympia Snowe to try and kick it down the road till after Christmas. This issue didn’t just appear out of the blue. Congress has had decades to think the mechanisms for this one through. How many more uninsured (read– dropped from or denied coverage through no fault of their own) American citizens will continue to lose their lives in the meantime?

I guess that was an answer JHW, I appreciate the try… How about this one? Why would I buy insurance when I can pay the penalty and wait until I need the coverage then sign up? They have to cover me right? No pre-existing conditions. Does not sound to profitable for private carriers…. but the government can do it because they have unlimited funds. Our funds. Say goodbye to private carriers. Think about what you are supporting before supporting. It gets interesting

“More ignorance from lefties? How surprising. The US has the best health care in the world. ”
AtheistConservative | Oct 22, 2009 5:18:41 PM
Nice pom-poms. Any REAL DATA to back that up? Our life expectancy is on average worse, even though we have lower smoking rates (and none of those death panel all the ‘socialist’ nations must have). First face transplant in the world? France. First hand transplant? France. Development of a procedure to cure blindness by transplanting a tooth to cure a rare cornea support problem? Pioneered in Italy.
America is the most prosperous free nation the world has ever seen. But our health care system is among the worst in the first world.

Are they ready for the thousands more people who will be unemployed from the hospitals and health care facilities? I say they better think long and hard about the long-term effects this will have.

Why would I buy insurance when I can pay the penalty and wait until I need the coverage then sign up? They have to cover me right? No pre-existing conditions.
stickman | Oct 22, 2009 5:25:16 PM
Why do you buy insurance now when the ER covers you for free?

Drop the entire dam thing right now and leave it as it is. Then look at the pharmacy companies and the rates they charge the patient. Then go after the lawyers who chase and wait for a doctor to do wrong get this bs stright then look at a healh bill for all .

“but it does eliminate any honest complaints of the public plan competing on an uneven playing field.”
- Really? The only way it could be a level playing field was A) If the government had to make a profit and couldn’t just print money (tax through inflation) and B) They couldn’t arbitrarily rewrite the laws through congress or idiot judges.

Republicare is basically HELLth care for no care.
Why not just make their theme song Billy Joel’s “Only the good die young”?
Stop pandering to the Snowe job we’ve been getting, grow a pair and cram the public option in because once it’s in even if republicans ever get the majority again they’ll never abolish it because they know it’ll be their own death nail…just like medicare.

“Thank you, as I said you seem to be the most informed and can’t answer even the basic questions regarding this proposal.”
stickman | Oct 22, 2009 5:30:54 PM
Sorry that reforming the health insurance system doesn’t fit onto a bumpersticker so you can understand it. I suppose you have at least read one of the bills, right? The Finance Committee bill was in plain text and very readable at less than 260 pages and has been posted since Oct 2 (over a week before the committee vote). The CBO analysis summary is also a good read. Have you made ANY effort to educate yourself at all?

ive said this on other posts but i havnt tired of it yet…id rather have a government sworn to my protection than an insurance company sworn to its stockholders

“For Profit” has no place in health care.
Posted by: Rob
Then what is the motivation for drug companies to develop cures for things like acne, warts, indigestion, etc. — not to mention the major things like cancer, genetic disorders and infectious disease?
If not for profit, what is my motivation to work harder to keep costs controlled, to pay competitive salaries and to use the most modern equipment?
Non-profit doesn’t mean services are better or cheaper – usually it means just the opposite. A good example is comparing public schools to certain private schools that provide better results for much less money then a public school receives. One operates for profit (it needs to keep its customers happy) the other does not need to keep its customers happy, so it doesn’t.

Reid and a “few” others have forgotten why they’re there. Or maybe not…. bottom line seems to be a major force…. desire to control is pretty stong! The corruption is nausiating.

Yea, baby. Medicare for the masses. I’m stoked. My mom loves medicare. Best thing ever.

Won’t fly, unless it covers everyone in the form of National Health Care.

Seems to me that none of you that are for the Public Option have a realtive that’s over 60. Have you ever taken someone on Medicaid to the doctor? This is a joke! I hope you love, love, love the CHANGE. But then, perhaps many of you have been to a free clinic or emergency room? That’s what you’re going to get, folks. Enjoy!

If this is the best Sen. Reid can do, it works for me. It’s important to remember that the FINAL bill will be a compromise of the Senate and House proposed bills. The provision to “negotiate payment rates with health care providers” would never make it through that process. And I agree with others who have pointed out the benefits of comparing the opt out states with those that accept the program. But as for the government going bankrupt… NO WAY. Raising taxes is not likely to be required to pay for this, but even if it is, we cannot live in a modern society and ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION lower taxes. Reality doesn’t work that way.

What many do not seem to understand is that you would rather implement a well thought-out public option now than having it imposed onto you by the circumstances. The out-of-control rise of healthcare costs will push more and more people off the private insurance rolls, as the industry cherry-picks its clients. These people will have to rely on public healthcare. So will baby-boomers when they hit 65-yrs old in the next 5-10 years. Having a system that negociates prescription medication and medical procedures costs, broadens the base for funding, is the only long-term viable solution. Now is the time to have an intelligent discussion about what should be covered, how one accesses the system, and, as in all countries with “socialized” medecine, there will always be a place for supplemental coverage should the plan not cover dental care or eyeglasses, psychotherapists or chiropracic care, as is the case in Canada.

Senator Snow is just one republican vote. If she can bring in ten or twenty republicans to come with her then we can consider a trigger if she believes that will fix the problem. We should not give in for one republican vote. I believe a strong public option is the only way to control the sky rocketing insurance premiums. Get some real competition for the insurance company in their. They are not going to compete by themselves.

so treblig…. what will this cover? I have asked a hundred times and no one including you knows. Copays? Premiums? Vision? Dental? What happens to those poor folk that make just enough to not get a subsidy? OOOPS penalty and/or jail time. And why would I pay for insurance now if I can just pay the penalty (much cheaper than premiums) and then get covered when I get sick? Private carriers will never survive that. These concerns go on and on and all you guys can come up with are “moral” arguments. Give me the numbers then we can have an intelligent discussion as you say.

I still have three questions: If the Canadian care is so good, why are so many clinics setting up shop right over the board, in the US? Why do many of the large hospitals offer travel arrangements for Canadians, to the US? Do your really think the VA runs a cost effective and quality organization? Just expand that several times.

This time, Reid has this right. The Democrats have to start acting like they won and govern accordingly. I consider myself a fairly moderate Democrat, who was just so-so about the public option, UNTIL, the AHIP issued that report a few days ago. If AHIP doesn’t get that individual penalty amount that they want for not signing up for insurance, they will make sure to jack up rates to ridiculous levels. Even with a subsidy or tax credits, there’s no way they can hold down costs. The only way is: 1) a public option where states can opt out if they choose; and 2) remove the anti-trust federal exemption that insurance companies currently enjoy. Let’s face it: the Wall street model of publicly-traded insurance companies is not working!!!! The only way the private insurance company market can survive is to be regulated like a utility and controlled by competition. I love Snowe. I think she’s a clear indication of where most of the country is, and that is right down the middle, but on this, a trigger is not going to work. Let states opt out if they choose and let states make that decision. Also, if Reid does put in a public option, those individual senators who go on the floor and state their opposition, will PUBLICLY have to address their opposition to what most voters want and be accountable. Once Mary Landrieu does that, I’m betting you will be getting tons of Louisiana voters calling her office big time.

Yes!

“Medicare is 50 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt” – This statement is either a typo, or, to put it bluntly; complete, pure, unadulterated BS.

Yeah..I hope the public option is back. Without it insurance companies will still be in charge. If you people think you are paying high prices for insurance now….wait…it will get worse and you will still be able to be pushed off your insurance if nothing is done. What little you may have to lay out now is nothing compared to what will be needed if we do not pass a bill now. Think about those whose jobs have been lost, cannot get insurance, think about those with pre=existing conditions, thinks about those who have been thrown off their insurance. With this bill….this will never happen again. To me that is worth anything we might have to lay out over a period of 10 years. I have insurance but I feel for those who do not but if I get sick,,,what will happen then?

The public option is being sold as a means to control dominant insurance carriers. However, when these dominant carriers pay out 85to 95% of revenues to the doctors, the only way for them to make public option insurance cheaper it to cut what is paid to providers.
that means every doctor, nurse, tech, nursing assistant and all other health care workers will have to make less money.
If they do not cut what they pay providers, we all will have to pay higher taxes or premiums. The public option is NOT CHEAPER.

The opt out plan. It is going to be like receiving fed highway funds. The feds will have a way to force the states to opt in or the states will lose something of value.

stickman: With 5 bills in the works and no clear path towards a significant change, I think you are not even at the point of sitting down and truly crafting a decent public option. I may suggest you start with the Canadian list of coverage and add or subtract elective treatments such as the ones I mentioned, depending on how much funding can be agreed on. I don’t think co-pays work for procedures, unless you cap them, because critical surgeries would bring back the bankruptcy issues but do work with medication (as soon as you repel Medicare Part D), and cap medication co-pays. Dental for kids under 12 to get them to have a good dental health habits, then it’s up to the individual. (Except trauma induced dental surgeries, car accidents, crime, etc.)Non-essential plastic surgeries should be out, as would be eugenic or fertility treatment. I would go further, but I don’t have time to write the whole bill here! None of the current bills will prevent consequences I eluded to earlier.

Way to go Harry! Now make it strong affordable and available to everyone that wants it.

Mark from Atlanta – FYI When Medicare was created in 1965, benefits were relatively limited and retirees paid a substantial percentage of the costs of their own care. In 1965, Congressional actuaries expected Medicare to cost $3.1 billion by 1970. In 1969, that estimate was revised to $5 billion, and it actually came in at $6.8 billion. Things have gotten worse since, and Medicare today costs $455 billion and rising. Medicare has a projected unfunded liability (the difference between the benefits that have been promised to current and future retirees and what will be collected in dedicated taxes and Medicare premiums) of 32,000,000,000,000.00 (32 Trillion) dollars if everything remains as it currently is.
Don’t know where they got the 50 Trillion but this number is based on studies which take into account the reduced income for the program and the increased number of aging in the future. Bottomline the program is not sustainable and with the governments track record I am highly skeptical of any figure they claim this so called reform will cost.

TO: Stickman — Numbers? Per capita costs are half in Canada than in the US with full coverage! Prescription medication costs in Canada 35% of the US costs. I think you could get costs at least 25% down for procedures while covering everyone, and I can’t see why your medication costs would not be at least as low as in Canada. Other numbers: Lower infant mortality, longer life expectancy (3 years)and 600,000 less bankruptcies in 2008 alone!

All I know is Michael Moore does not go to other countries to get his healthcare and he charges for his movies. He is a joke.

To:Stickman: A true public option should be tax-based, but if you do not like the Canadian model look at Germany who offers a public option and non-profit private option with rates based on income 6% of income paid by employer, 6% by the employee. Are you really that worried that private insurance companies would go under? Why?

To: Stickman: Source? Source of what?

I think tongue tied Harry needsto try.
Harry is in trouble in Nevada and this would be the final nail in his coffin.

If we were a Christian country, we would not be conducting a health care debate. We would not be trying to save the profits of health insurance companies either. We would provide medical care for everyone. We need to stop debating health care and pass health care legislation with a public option. That’s what Jesus would do.
The “Christian” GOP who are blocking Obama’s health care proposals are hypocrites and God frauds.
Posted by: William Joseph Miller
Why does health care for all rank higher then food for all or adequate housing for all? Good health requires adequate nutrition, yet democrats in their quest to pass this bill, overlook the alarming rates of childhood and elderly malnutrition in this country. They overlook inadequate housing. No one is talking about how malnutrition effects education, crime, etc.
Rather then medical care, wouldn’t malnourished children fare better with a program that provided free milk, eggs, apples and cheese?
I would think that those who truly understood poverty and its challenges would be crying “apples and cheese for all” before “health care for all.”

To answer your question I do not want government run healthcare. UK is bankrupt because of it, their healthcare system is the 3rd-5th largest employer in the world… ready for collapse. Canada is not far behind. Look at the tax credit for first time home buyers, cash for clunkers, social security, medicare, post office, do you really want these people running the health system? I prefer reform to make things better but goverment is not the answer. Besides check the constitution, the gov has no authority to mandate this sort of program.

What Obama is trying to do is to save our nation from economic ruin. Look at countries like Sweden, Japan and Taiwan. They have an incredibly efficient healthcare system that provides better healthcare than in America for about 50% the cost. If the insurance companies are allowed to continue their ways, our healtcare industry will end up like General motors and Chrysler and our country will be in deep financial trouble that we may never get out of.

Stickman: I forgot: You might look at UNFacts website.

I just heard that Olympia Snowe has said that she will not vote for the public option. Uh oh.
In the end – neither will Blanche Lincoln or Mark Pryor. She is up for re-elction in Arkansas, a state that voted overwhelmingly for McCain.
In the end, Mark Pryor (AR) and 5-6 others won’t vote for it either.
Sad to say, but a/any filibuster will prevail over this part.
It’s dead, Jim.

Um Mr. King, I think you are wrong.
the constitution explicitly says
“Section 8 – Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”
Also, please note that it does not say all taxes should be uniform.
In fact, Adam Smith favored so-called progressive taxation, too.
“The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich . . . . It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
It must always be remembered, however, that it is the luxuries, and not the necessary expense of the inferior ranks of people, that ought ever to be taxed.”
and
“The ordinary rent of land is, in many cases, owing partly, at least, to the attention and good management of the landlord. A very heavy tax might discourage, too much, this attention and good management. Ground-rents, so far as they exceed the ordinary rent of land, are altogether owing to the good government of the sovereign, which, by protecting the industry either of the whole people or of the inhabitants of some particular place, enables them to pay so much more than its real value for the ground which they build their houses upon; or to make to its owner so much more than compensation for the loss which he might sustain by this use of it. Nothing can be more reasonable, than that a fund, which owes its existence to the good government of the state, should be taxed peculiarly, or should contribute something more than the greater part of other funds, towards the support of that government.”

Peter King -
You said it all – It appears that there is less and less credence for the
instutions that founded this country and took it to it’s greatness.
Look for furthur attempted degradation
in the name of change.

Stickman: While at it: My doctor – which I choose – never had to call anyone to get approval for treatment or medication, NEVER. Nobody I know has been refused treatment, some elective procedures and non-urgent treatments may have waiting lists, which is a trade-off 82% of Canadians are satisfied with. NOBODY EVER WENT BANKRUPT for healthcare expenses. I can’t remember the source, but it is estimated that 60% of the over 1000,000 personal bankruptcies in 2008 in the USA are partly or completely due to medical bills. Your system may not be broke, your citizens are…

Finally health care for all Americans

Jay wrote: I have 100% health care through my work, so as long as this doesn’t affect that, and I don’t have to pay more in taxes so people I couldn’t care less about will have care, I am all for it!
Finally, someone with the courage to frankly say the truth! Thank you! All other arguments are just a deceiving way of covering what Jay’s opinion is.
People who have good healthcare are just not willing to pay for people worse off than them. Not my vision of society, but at least honest!

We are a nation of fools who think that the government can provide services for free.

Medicare is broke, This stuff is not free folks. Look it up!

Stickman: Medicare is broke… Meanwhile, the Health Industry is making record profits… Why? Could it be because the Health Insurance companies only insure the wealthier and healthier people, private hospitals refuse or throw out people who can’t pay while Medicare HAS TO service the poor, the very sick and the elderly without appropriate funding?

The public option is necessary to get the insurance companies out of our health care. If you don’t want it, opt out…you will have a choice. Right now you have nothing and are at the mercy of the insurance companies. They don’t care about you or your healthcare,,,,they only care about money. When a company can make a 400% profit over the last two years which were not good years for most companies, I can’t feel sorry for them. I have seen what they do to people like my daughter who fought cancer and her insurance provider and my neighbor who is dying of cancer and at first the insurance company approved the hospice care and then sent a letter 5 days later saying they would not pay for this company…not on their list. Well. who was the person who said they were in the first place..they don’t seem to know her name…ridiculous…someone dying of cancer and fighting her insurance company…it makes me sick.

Call me rude but I work hard for what I have and if I did not prepare myself for what I may have to pay for well whos fault is that? I don’t want any handouts or sympathy. I want government out of my wallet and my life. Maybe we should give food, housing, cars, air conditioning, retirement, in fact why not just let the goverment take my whole check and then they will provide me with (what I need).

Stickman wrote: We used to be the country of personal responsibility and earning what you get. —- Responsibility is also paying for what you get. That was thrown out the window by Reagan and BUSH 1 & 2. While piling up deficits, giving tax breaks to the wealthiest is FISCAL SUICIDE. Only one administration posted surpluses since 1981 and it was Clinton (1998-1999-2000-2001)! Responsibility is not letting PAY AS YOU PLAY lapse and passing MEDICARE PART D with NO PLAN TO PAY FOR IT (Bush 2003) Expected costs 2006-2015 are 680 billion $ Who is the responsible party? Tell me…
Posted by: treblig56 | Oct 22, 2009 7:41:45 PM
It’s true.

If this does get passed and it fails, think how much you hate you insurance company. Now think if its the govt plan you are angry at?
Do the Dems really want to frame this debate the way they are? This isn’t saying their shouldn’t be reform but the Dems are in a horrible corner and keep trying to falsely blame the GOP.
The Dems ‘might’ win big on this BUT if this is a disaster a Democrat won’t be able to be elected local dog catcher for at least a generation or more.

It is obvious they will indeed pass this thing even if it kills us or destroys what is left of our economy and what is left of the best health care system the world currently has to offer.

First there was no surplus, Google surplus myth and see the accounting, but hey debt and deficit are two different things I guess. Anyway I am not a fan Bush so don’t go there. He was not a conservative at all. The myth about Bush though is that all those tax cuts went to the rich…. look them up before you believe what you hear. You may be surprised. As far as bashing Reagan, I think you are crazy. Between carter, Bush2, and this nutcase I could only hope for reagan. By the way look up the CRA under carter clinton and bush. That should give you all you need to know about entitlements leading to our demise, and the colapse of this great country.

I have to go guys, good discussion, I will wait to see your reply and give you the last word.

Peter King, it is not unconstitutional since it is… an option. Otherwise, you might as well declare the VA unconstitutional.
Besides, you are not “buying something owned by the government”, since it is a pool of money used to cover risk. This is in fact, VERY similar to Medicare or Social Security. Are you calling these unconstitutional too?
In any case, you may not like it and you do NOT _have_ to sign up, but it _is_ constitutional or you can bet that opponents would successfully block it.

If you are holding your breath based on ‘HARRY’S COUNTING’, please advise of your next of kin’s address where we can provide a card of condolence. He blew a BIG ONE TODAY!! The guy cannot lead, nor can he ‘COUNT’!!

“”In any case, you may not like it and you do NOT _have_ to sign up, but it _is_ constitutional or you can bet that opponents would successfully block it.”"
But everyone WILL forced to pay for it with taxes if you use the option or not right? You or I don’t even know the details of how it will work but taxes WILL be used on it and taxes are not optional are they?
I am not a fan of the insurance companies but explain something for me regarding the public option will you?
This is another choice sure but how is this competition?
Where is the competition when the insurance companies don’t want to insure certain people anyway? They don’t WANT to insure people with preexisting conditions or who are old or sick so this new govt exchange or option will be competing for bad health risks with who?
The big bad insurance companies have no desire to insure bad health risks anyway where is the competition?
I fear this govt system will be used as a dumping ground for the poor and sick and old and the insurance companies will not HAVE to compete for those they have no desire to compete for now.
Oh that’s right there will ‘safeguards’ put in place to not allow this to happen. Oh yeah, those, magical never mentioned or detailed ‘safeguards’.
Competition is a two way street and the Dems don’t seem to remember that.

So, stickman, You don’t want governemnt in your life, wait! local is good!, how about highways? Oh, yeah, state is OK…
How about FEMA if there is an earthquake or flood? Hmmm, then maybe federal is OK too.
Point is: You have adequate health insurance and you don’t want to part with your precious money for anybody else… Until you get to the other side of the coin, then you might change your tune…

All this trouble for the vote of one republican from Maine? There isn’t enough political cover there – why bother with her when you can pass the public option on a reconciliation vote?
If Reid can’t pass a public option with a democratic senate, house and presidency he’ll go down as the weakest majority leader in 100 years. I hope he thinks about what he wants his role in history to be.

Healthcare for everyone and no one has to pay for it? Great!

Truth of the matter is: In the US, profitable services are privatized, non-profitable services are sent to be run by government. Medicare is the best example. Send the poorest, the sickest and the elderly (all people who need more healthcare and/or can least afford it) to Medicare, the private sector will take in the rest. The same is true for local services such as police and fire departments.

Go ahead Harry . . . then brace yourself for riots in the streets and the complete destruction of the Democratic Party. This is against the desires of the American majority.

You want the GOVERNMENT to determine YOUR healthcare?????? — Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate? The AMA’s own 2008 National Health Insurer Report Card told us which insurer holds this dubious honor! Was it Aetna? Humana? Nope. It was GOVERNMENT-RUN MEDICARE!!!! —- The denial rate found in the study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers COMBINED!!!! —- You single-payer dunces!!!!

This government is in free fall! With a deficit of $1.4 trillion and a national debt of almost $12 trillion forecast to double in ten years, it wants to step into health care!
The original medicare came in at 1o times the estimate of the ways and means committee, so who is trusting them now?
If the dollar collapses it doesn’t matter what kind of “nanny state” was foeced upon us we are all going down.
Is there no way to get the attention of these crazies before we become the USSA?

Treblig 56 — Well, I guess I just like the freedom America has always given me!! — I prefer “self-determination” instead of a “nanny-state” — I guess we just disagree!!

To: jimt: Good point! BTW, how are your fully private auto insurance rates been doing in the last 10 years? How about your claims, is service OK?

Let me run through the process of getting healthcare in Quebec, Canada, where I live. I go to a clinic or hospital of my choice, or to my self-chosen doctor’s appointment, show my healthcare card, confirm my current address and sit down. I see the doctor, if needed he prescribes tests or medication, I call for an appointment or go directly to get tested if MY DOCTOR sees urgency. Get my tests, buy my medications at any pharmacy I choose, pay my 30% co-pay up to a maximum of 80$ a month. No forms, no calls, no bill, no undue wait unless I show up at an ER during a pandemic; I guess my socialist healthcare looks terrible to you, but I kinda like it.

Having lived in several countries such as Canada, England and France and now the USA, I am astounded by the debate in the USA about health care. The lies and distortion of facts against reform from the right are unconscionable because they threaten real reform that will benefit all Americans and prevent the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Americans each year due to being denied health care. Do you want to be able to see a doctor or go to a walk-in clinic anytime you want? Do you want treatment even if it is a pre existing condition or become seriously ill? Do you want to be able to take your children to see a doctor or a hospital anytime for any ailment whether for a fever or broken arm and get looked after? Do you want all of this and never have to worry about being asked to pay to get the medical attention you or your family need? Of course you do. This health care is what other Western countries have and they are just as democratic and capitalistic as America. The Public Option is the minimum. Why should American’s have anything less than what citizens have in other countries? Fight the lies. Fight for real health care reform now.

I would say that our President, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi are finally showing some real leadership. Nancy is such a sweet, sweet darling …

The insurance companies are not subject to antitrust law. So they can fix price and not compete and won’t get prosecuted. This is why healthcare cost is so high. FREE MARKET does not always work. The public option will provide the competition that will lower premium. Also according to New England Journal 73 % of physicians support the public options.

It’s simply a matter of facts then in every poll conducted public support for a Government Option in the Healthcare Bill finds greater support than opposition. I’ve seen polls garner 50% to 84% of Americans who back up the Option. Now get going Congressman!

Why do we need another health care system. We have three perfectly good ones that are run by the government. The one for US Congress, Medicare, and the VA. Pick one allow anyone that wants to participate in it to. Or let all 3 be open and people can select which ever one they want to join.

Why dont we just declare ourselves a socialist nation and be done with it.

1) I would trust Reid more if he removed all that Nevada pork out of the bill — you know – where Nevada gets a whole lot better deal than the rest of the States?
2) No matter what passes – it is unconstitutional, and will be tied up in courts for decades to come. So don’t get your panties up in a wad thinking you are going to get free healthcare anytime soon… Nope – you are just going to get taxed for it soon.
3) Many of the States are already working through Legislation to block this bill from affecting them, so that even if it passes, they will say it can not affect the citizens within their state lines. ie pretty much every red and purple state. If they Feds try to force it – refer to #2 above and look for a States’s Rights challenge to the supreme court for each State.
4) If the Senate and the House try to play any fancy procedural games to ram a healthcare bill through – they had better pray that all miraculously improves overnight in this country, as that is about the only way any of them will stay in office.

Good deal! The public option is the only thing that makes a national health care plan creditable, otherwise, why have it?
Once the public option becomes law, those now opposed to it will see its benefit and will embrace the idea. The benefit being that it will force the insurance industry to compete which will bring costs down.

I am now certain most liberal media groups are not very honest, or truthful. The President doesn’t want the people to listen to FOX News and talk radio, because they are reporting facts and truth. Now here is a couple of facts…..polls show 54% of the public oppose the Democrats healthcare bill. The current deficit which was bad under Bush has tripled under Obama, and it is still climbing. The Democrats and Obama have made NO attempts at bipartisanship, and have turned homeland security on any American that opposes them. Most media groups are not reporting items unfavorable to the current administration. George Soros has moved most investments to foreign assets, like a Brazilian oil company. The U.S. DOLLAR is collapsing. To stop the collapse Bernerke wants to raise interest rates while unemployment is still climbing, and while we have not yet seen a recovery. Greenspan says this recovery (what there is of one) has no legs to stand on. EVERYONE ON THE LEFT LIKES TO TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS…….HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT TRUTH. The disaster is coming.

universal health care represents basic rights. like water, food, voting. you know democracy.

treblig56 – If your Canadian system is so great how come I am reading the following:
“Canadians have a health care system that should be the envy of no one. It’s not free, it’s funded by taxpayers, and it isn’t truly universal. Two Canadian Supreme Court justices made this clear three years ago when they concluded that “access to a waiting list is not access to health care.”"
“Delayed treatment in an overused system has been the root of much unnecessary suffering. To prevent premature deaths and the needless misery that are hallmarks of Canadian care, the British Columbia Automobile Association began offering waiting-list insurance to some of its members in August as part of a pilot program.
Those who bought the coverage would receive treatment in a private clinic in British Columbia or the U.S. if they were placed on a government care waiting list longer than 45 days.”
“The Fraser Institute in Canada reports that the median wait time from a general practitioner’s referral to actual treatment by a specialist was 17.3 weeks in 2008 (see chart). That’s a full week better than the previous year, but far worse than a decade and a half earlier when the wait time was 9.3 weeks.”
“But the real outrage, to quote Brian Day, former director of the Canadian Medical Association, should be that a government would actually force “a citizen in a free and democratic society to simply wait for health care, and outlaw their ability to extricate themselves from a wait list.”"
Doesn’t look like the system you are so proud of is doing that good, no thanks you can keep your health care system ours works bettter than yours.

Nice thoughts & research Sandcrab, It won’t work though. These people are Gone…..Lost…. never coming back.

Fed_up_with_BOTH_Parties – Won’t argue that as I haven’t looke at the plans in about a month. I had the data saved in a file as too many folks had no clue about the health care that Congress and the federal employee had. Looks like I’ll have to check it out and revise my data.

Laughin_All_The_Way & Fed_up_with_BOTH_Parties _ there is a link at the bottom of the article which gives even more details to the changes in the FEHB and it is contained in a number of tables and each table is by state so it is easy to find out if any changes are to a plan which may be available in a certain area. Thanks for the link as it makes it even eaiser than muddling through all of the FEHB site to get the information.

I believe that the Obama Administration is not being (Now Let Me Make This Perfectly Clear) open, honest or in any way clear with us the public. What I have been able to gleen out of the health plan is that, it seems to be set up on a system of “Bean Counting”. That means the system that saves the most beans in the end is how this New Health Plan will be implemented over all. If the Obama Administration would be straight they could not say any different.
I know how to get every State back on track and the Federal Budget also. I can also take care of the water problem in central California. The latter I will explain in short so you out there don’t think me any sort of kook. The problem being the Delta Smelt a small fish that larger fish use for food being ground to death by high powered pumps. My solution a small modification to those pumps to keep the fish out cut down their volum increase their preasure then use them in a Venturi Draft set up by use of a jet log there-by creating a giant vacum bringing more water through a large syphon there-by not injuring the little fish at all because they would a clean ride through the tube with nothing machanical to harm them. The economie’s I can also fix just as simply. They think that only they have the “snap crackel & pop” so they will not listen to me. I have Faxed the White House on several ocasions and no less than 35 senators & congressmen and women. No response from anyone. I will not do all this for free but would guarantee the results or no pay. I could also cull out the various government areas there-by streamlining every area. I am a self taught and gifted from birth situation analest. I study nearly every day and have done so as long as I can remember. I am retired.

daylene | Oct 23, 2009 1:10:15 AM
You have enlightened me as well and at the same time saved me the time to look it up as I will not contest your information.
I am retired and raising two grandchildren. I supply the insurance for them also. I have and have used Kaiser Ins. for many years. What I have never been able to figure out is how many agencies “seem” to rip us and the Gov. Medicare off. I have to pay 51% of my medical Ins. our Union membership payes the other 49% My part is $855.00
per month. My wife and I use the Kaiser Senior Advantage Plan, I have been carring my two grand children for some 10 years I don’t feel that I can do this any more and may soon be asking that they be put on Medical. Then my wifes and my part will be reduced to some $305.00 per month that dose include Delta dental Prefered.

Oh great, Petey, another excuse as to why anything the government does when your guys are out of power is “unconstitutional” while everything the Republicans do is somehow ‘patriotic’. How is it unconstitutional to reform the way health care is administered and paid for in this country? Why is it OK to go fight a war and spend any amount of money that someone puts in the “amount due” portion of the bill but it’s somehow the worst thing since slavery to spend a dime on keeping someone healthy? Health care is big business in this country and they make money by keeping people sick. The want you to take their drugs and waste away in their hospitals because that’s where their profits come from. Any system that opens preventative care up to the masses cuts into their profits. Here’s a thought: let’s just call this a war, then the Republicans shouldn’t have any problem just cutting a blank check for it. It’s the War on Health Care Terrorism and unlike the wars we’re currently fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan, we could feasibly WIN this one! Like it or not, the Democrats are in power for this cycle and they SHOULD be forcing their will on the House & Senate, just as the Republicans have done for so many years when they had the wheel. Instead, the Democrats are wasting the opportunity the voters have given them, voters who rightfully expected them to take the hint and get something done in a timely manner. The need to get a health care reform bill with a public option passed and make it take effect by Christmas. That alone should cut the seasonal suicide rate rate down by at least a couple of points. Except possibly in the Republican chambers of the House & Senate, where there may be some ritual falling on swords once this finally passes.

Without a public option there cannot be a health care reform. It will be the same same old extortion, monopoly and lack of decent affordable health care.

The CBO never said anything about the public option because the latest bill is scored didn’t have it. If this passes, the Democrats will lose the house for sure. The majority of Americans do not want the government in the insurance business. The last ABC poll was revealed as a fraud because of the way the questions were asked.

They call it “option” but they have included provisions that make you lose your private insurer if your insurer covers any newly developed drug, or if your employer hires one new worker. It is designed to steamroll us and shows no regard for anything the public wants. They will get this through. They are determined to do it no matter what it costs financially or politically. They are not representing anyone, they are moving towards total control of a population they view as out of control, irresponsible and corrupt. I resent that. And i resent them for doing this and causing such dissention and continued polarization.

I believe Baucus went apoplectic, makes sense. He just wants to do right for the insurance industries and make them more money. It’s obvious look where he gets all of his donations from, the insurance industry. At the same time he’s saying, this is for the american people, sure? Look this public option has to be part of this bill, it’s the only good thing for real health reform. So call the White House, and tell them you support a strong public option, not a trigger!!!

I would add please remember the $1.4 trillion deficit and the $12 trillion national debt!
That debt is expected to double to $24 trillion in ten years and not one of these jokers-in-charge has even a hint of a plan to mitigate that debt!
So, the open question is can we afford healthcare, or any additional spending bill until someone wakes up to the CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER of the deficit and debt?
The fact that no one has a plan to mitigate the debt means simply that no one plans to mitigate it!
Can the the nation survive such idiocy? Must we contribute to the insanity by asking for “nanny care”?

anybody who is paying attention knows that the public option is the only option that benefits the public. Of course the insurance companies have a lot of money to sway congressional opinion. I would be surprised to see politicians do anything that really benefited their constituents.

Im disappointed in Snowe,there for a while I thought she was the last good republican.But I have a feeling she’ll vote for this bill even if it has a public option.Hopefully

Including a public option insurance would really give so many people the chance to buy affordable insurance. And it would keep the private insurance companies on their toes to finally have some real competition.

I am not in favor of this stupid plan. The numbers do not add up to something that the New writers of laws say “sustainable”. First of all, all the legislators and all their families, include Barack and his too, should be enrolled in it instantly, and not have the option to opt out EVER, no Ted Kennedy option at all, and they shall remain in this coverage for the rest of their natural lives. If this public option is put in the Health Reform Bill, it will shut all others down, you cannot compete against the US Government. With that said, bases on their numbers, the cost for the first ten years for 300,000,000 citizens of the United States of America will exceed 22 Trillion Dollars. This is why Japanese head of banking has stated the US currency will drop to 50% of the current value of the dollar by 2011..This is why the United Nations have started to movement the remove the US dollar as the reserve currency. What I see is a disaster for this country. This is only for ten years, how much for the next ten years, and the next? This is not “Sustainable”.

Are you all going to love that public option when the government board says you can have palliative care but NOT the operation to replace your hip at age 65?

The poeple do not want “Health Care Reform” and do not think it should be a priority by this Democrat Congress. The people do not want the Public Option either; anyone who votes for this nonsense should be voted out next election. It is also all unconstitutional anyway.

I told my wife we were going to buy a home theater system for $50,000 dollars. She said “We can’t afford that! I refuse to go along with it!” I said, “Don’t worry honey, You can opt out of using the home theater system.”
How is this rediculous situation any different then the “Opt Out” option in the Senate health bill? I would like to know.

To Blankley (executive vice president of Edelman public relations in Washington) points out that “Congress invariably fails to actually implement the painful cuts, but it does keep or increase the benefits. That is why entitlement programs always cost much more than is
predicted.)”
That pretty well sums up how we got into the unsustainable deficit/debt situation and why we should not believe this congress on healthcare.
Let the government address the deficit spending and the national debt before it sell us yet another lie!

Why are we doing this? Do you know that in Canada – where they have “free” health care – politicians routinely campaign on reduce wait times – that is reduce the wait you have to experience before you get to see a doctor or have treatment. The fact is more people die prematurely in Canada and Great Britian than the USA because healthcare in those countries is rationed. Do we really want go go down this road?

Dear Jack B:
I find it utterly amazing that you can suggest that the Reid Public Option will cost us nothing, regardless of Political Persuasion. What’s next? Are you going to tell us that there will be enough money left over to restore the funds to be stolen from a financially suffering Medicare Program….read that again….Medicare is going down the tubes, yet we can take $$$$$ in savings from fraud, overpayments, and good old Chicago style borrowing, and apply that to the cost of a new government controlled program…….after you buy the bridge, I have a great game to show you…..keep your eye on the nutshells.
By the way, did you read the “Reid amendment”…..share it with us, will you since the public is the very last to know in this meandering mess.
I would write more to assist in straightening your thought processes out, but I have to catch a flight to Europe…..want a Swine Flu Shot, you know.
..the Obama Leadership Beat Goes On.

The “OPT-Out” is a scam!! The States that decide to OPT -Out still have to pay the taxes….it is a Scam, but what do you expect from the Democrats, Obama and Harry Reid…all a Scam!!!

Fat chance of THIS passing…
Who is going to support a plan that creates more taxes and cuts into medicare ?
It is nothing more than Harry trying to save face with his own supporters.
The guy is toast in the next election.

The question is can he tell enough lies to get people to believe it is lowering the deficit?
By the way lowering the deficit just slows the rate of sinking the boat is still going down.
Even the CBO said in July, “The federal budget is on an unsustainable path — meaning that federal debt will continue to grow much faster than the economy over the long run . . . . Rising costs for health care and the aging of the U.S. population will cause federal spending to increase rapidly . . . ”
Since no one has offered a plan to mitigate the debt, my assumption is that there is zero intent to ever do anything about it. How many believe we can survive?
The deficit and debt are more of a national crisis than obtaining “nanny state” insurance! In the are a CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m still harping on the defict/debt issue and the fact that with 1990 pages these loonies haven’t a clue as to the real cost.
Remember the original medicare came in at ten times the estimate. So start thinking ten times $1.25 trillion.
The bill can’t pass unless they lie or use “clever math” and it seems that “clever math” is all they know.
In fact, our own president considers real math to be “calculator abuse”!
Have you written to your duly elected threesome this week, I have several times.

Moderates? How does one being conservative make him moderate? Just because he is democrat?

If this nation is spending twice as much for health care as any other country on earth, how can creating a “new system” that raises the cost a trillion dollars be an improvement? I don’t see the logic.

The goal is the eventual destruction of the entire health insurance industry. If the Public Option can be competitive with health insurance companies, that means in order to keep reducing the cost of doing business many employers will find requiring employees to be covered by the public option more attractive (thereby eliminating the need to provide health insurance as a benefit). In the meantime, the middle class (not the rich) employees who covered by their employer’s plan will still need to pay the taxes in order to support the Public Option. After health insurance companies can no longer compete with the Public Option, rates inevitably will keep going up. Bottomline: this administration has not proposed anything to bring healthcare costs down – they will only make the problem worse and the quality of care in the U.S. will inevitably go down.

As a resident in a country, where the public health insurance is not an option but a law, I can say, that it is a good choice to have every citizen insured on a basic level. That way everybody can go to a hospital and the hospital doesn’t have to come to your local gym now and then.