By Gorman Gorman

Oct 29, 2009 8:36am

Signal Visit: Powerful images as president prepares weighty decision

ABC News’ Rick Klein reports: You could never accuse him of not understanding the optics.

The nation on Thursday woke up to powerful and emotional images — images the public never saw under President Bush.

President Obama's surprise overnight trip to Dover, Del., greeting returning American caskets that once would have been shielded from view, may tell us more about his mindset on Afghanistan than any of the endless series of meetings he's convened at the White House.

It's a window into how he's processing the most difficult decision-making any president faces. And, coming in the war's deadliest month yet, it may also be a strong signal about how he hopes the public will process that decision — one that appears very likely to leave this one-time anti-war candidate adding more troops to an increasingly unpopular war.

There are multiple constituencies the president needs to serve — the military establishment, congressional leaders, the Democratic base. And, of course, there's the biggie: a skeptical public that needs to be convinced all over again that Afghanistan is worth the effort.

ABC's Sunlen Miller and Jake Tapper: "Obama's participation in this sad military tradition comes at a critical time for the President, as he weighs sending as many as 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan. President Obama continues to deliberate with his commanders and advisors and will likely announce his decision after the Afghan elections on November 7 and before he departs for Asia on November 11, though the announcement could come after he returns from the Asia trip."

"The president, sources said, is leaning towards adopting a strategy that would send more troops to Afghanistan, though not 40,000, the number Gen. Stanley McChrystal has requested," they report.

"It was very powerful for the president, aides say," Tapper reported on ABC's "Good Morning America" Thursday. "On the helicopter ride back, the president thanked his military aide. And then no one said a word for the duration of the 45-minute trip back to Washington, DC."

 "Standing in the pre-dawn darkness, President Barack Obama saw the real cost of the war in Afghanistan: The Americans who return in flag-covered cases while much of the nation sleeps in peace," the AP's Ben Feller writes. "The dramatic image of Obama on the tarmac was a portrait not witnessed in years."

"The trip was a symbolic one for Mr. Obama — intended to convey the gravity of his decision as he moves closer to announcing whether he will send more troops to Afghanistan," Jeff Zeleny writes in The New York Times.

The logistical details, per ABC's Sunlen Miller and Jon Garcia: "The president arrived at Dover AFB at 12:34am after 40-minute chopper ride from the White House. An Air Force C-17 carrying the 18 fallen U.S. personnel had arrived at Dover before the president. Among the dead on board were 7 U.S. Army soldiers and 3 DEA agents killed when their MH-47 Chinook crashed at Darreh-ye-bum, and 8 U.S. soldiers killed when their STRYKER personnel vehicle was struck by IED blast in the Arghandab River Valley."

Latest AP handicapping — "McChrystal Light": "A narrowed military mission would escalate American forces to accomplish the commander's broadest goals, protecting Afghan cities and key infrastructure. But the option's scaled-down troop numbers likely would cut back on [Gen. Stanley] McChrystal's ambitious objectives, amounting to what one official described as ‘McChrystal Light.' "

Yes, how many: "President Obama has asked senior officials for a province-by-province analysis of Afghanistan to determine which regions are being managed effectively by local leaders and which require international help, information that his advisers say will guide his decision on how many additional U.S. troops to send to the battle," Scott Wilson and Greg Jaffe report in The Washington Post. "[Secretary Robert] Gates and [National Security Adviser James] Jones have pushed McChrystal to justify as specifically as possible his request for 44,000 additional troops, the figure now at the center of White House deliberations."

And it's another health care roll-out day: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is unveiling House leaders' version of health care reform at a 10:30 am ET event on the steps of the Capitol — the same steps where President Obama took the oath of office nine months ago.

Does this count as robust? "House Democrats preparing to unveil legislation to overhaul the health-care system signaled Wednesday that they would include a more conservative version of a government-run insurance plan that would negotiate payment rates with hospitals and doctors," Martin Vaughan and Naftali Bendavid write for The Wall Street Journal.

"Robust" used to mean payments tied to Medicare rates … "After a series of discussions over the last couple of days, we've come to realize it's very tough to get to that point," said Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Education and Labor Committee.

"The government-run insurance company created by her bill would negotiate payment rates with health care providers just like private insurance companies," per ABC's Jonathan Karl. "Pelosi simply could not get the votes to pass the ‘robust' version she prefers."

Remember those liberals who told Pelosi it was robust or bust? "Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) just called their bluff — and they appear ready to fold," Roll Call's Tory Newmyer and Steven T. Dennis report.

Hardly a line in the sand: "We will insist on making it as strong as it can possibly be," said Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif.

"After months of public hand-wringing and strident proclamations in support of the strongest possible government-run health coverage, liberal Democrats are bowing to the reality that party leaders don't have the votes," Politico's Patrick O'Connor reports.

(Will the Netroots take this one in stride? One early answer from Jane Hamsher, at FireDogLake: "Today was a huge defeat for the American taxpayer, serious health care reform, and working class Americans who are going to be denied a robust public option which could have saved them thousands of dollars.")

President Obama is meeting with the House Progressive Caucus, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus on health reform, at 5:05 pm ET in the Roosevelt Room.

Does it matter that the House is, again, voting first? "Speaker Pelosi is once again — as on cap and trade — asking her members to walk the plank, absent any evidence there are the votes in the Senate to pass comparable legislation," Bill Kristol writes for The Weekly Standard. "In fact, the reason Pelosi is pulling the trigger now is that Reid failed in his effort to get the Senate up to the starting gate first (that was the point of last week's attempted ‘doc fix'). So, the question is: Will her caucus follow Nancy off a cliff?"

Floor fights ahead: "Democratic House aides said party leaders had yet to resolve long-standing disputes over provisions to prevent federal funds from being used to subsidize abortions and to block illegal immigrants from receiving benefits," Shailagh Murray reports in The Washington Post.

New report out Thursday, from the Center for American Progress: "Unlocking Competition: The Need to Eliminate the Antitrust Exemption for Health Insurers."

Wait — did someone say "Clinton"? David Plouffe's book is out Nov. 3 — with an excerpt in Time that includes some quotes that bring back memories:

Obama on the possibility of choosing Hillary Clinton as his running mate, according to Plouffe: "I think Bill may be too big a complication. If I picked her, my concern is that there would be more than two of us in the relationship."

Adds Plouffe: "Neither Ax nor I were fans of the Hillary option."

ABC's Teddy Davis: "Thanks to The Bill Factor, Hillary, who was on the final list of six possible running mates, did not make the final list of three. The book confirms, as reported at the time, that the three finalists were: Sen. Evan Bayh, D-Ind., Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine (D), and eventual choice Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del."

And Obama on Sen. John McCain's choice of Sarah Palin: "… when voters step back and analyze how he made this decision, I think he's going to be in big trouble. You just can't wing something like this — it's too important."

Did someone say Palin? The DNC's latest "call 'em out" campaign takes on a certain former governor of Alaska.

From the new Web page: "A lot of folks use Facebook to stay in touch with friends and family. For Sarah Palin, it's a great way to spread lies about health insurance reform. Palin has taken to Facebook to spread t he ‘death panels' lie and claim that reform will raise costs for families. … So Sarah Palin, we're calling you out."

The new video — saying Palin is "lying on health reform" — is HERE.

A true must-read, coming in Sunday's New York Times Magazine: Jodi Kantor on the Obama marriage. "The Obamas mix politics and romance in a way that no first couple quite have before. Almost 10 months ago, they swept into Washington with inauguration festivities that struck distinctly wedding-like notes: he strode down an aisle and took a vow, she wore a long white dress, the youthful-looking couple swayed to a love song in a ceremonial first dance and then settled into a new house," Kantor writes.

"The centrality of the Obama marriage to the president's political brand opens a new chapter in the debate that has run through, even helped define, their union. Since he first began running for office in 1995, Barack and Michelle Obama have never really stopped struggling over how to combine politics and marriage: how to navigate the long absences, lack of privacy, ossified gender roles and generally stultifying rules that result when public opinion comes to bear on private relationships."

Said Michelle (in what Kantor calls her "let's-get-real voice": "The bumps happen to everybody all the time, and they are continuous."
 
Following up on a solid scoop: "Republican leaders called for an investigation into perks President Obama handed out to top Democratic donors as campaign-finance groups expressed dismay Wednesday that the administration was not doing more to reform the culture in Washington," Matthew Mosk and S.A. Miller report in the Washington Times. "Internal Democratic National Committee documents obtained by The Times showed that the party had offered up quarterly briefings by senior advisers in exchange for the maximum legal donation of $30,400, or a willingness to raise $300,000 in time for the 2010 midterm elections."

"Contributing doesn't guarantee a visit to the White House," said White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, "nor does it preclude it."

Furthering the storyline: "More than 40% of President Obama's top-level fundraisers have secured posts in his administration, from key executive branch jobs to diplomatic postings in countries such as France, Spain and the Bahamas, a USA TODAY analysis finds. Twenty of the 47 fundraisers that Obama's campaign identified as collecting more than $500,000 have been named to government positions, the analysis found," Fredreka Schouten reports for USA Today.
Further furthering the storyline: "Dozens of lobbyists were invited to a Democratic National Committee (DNC) fundraiser Tuesday night with a Cabinet member even though President Barack Obama has sworn off taking money from lobbyists," The Hill's Sam Youngman reports. "A DNC official said it was a mistake that lobbyists were invited to a small gathering with Lisa Jackson, Obama's administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency."

Stimulus setback: "An early progress report on President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan overstates by thousands the number of jobs created or saved through the stimulus program, a mistake that White House officials promise will be corrected in future reports," the AP's Brett J. Blackledge and Matt Apuzzo report. "The government's first accounting of jobs tied to the $787 billion stimulus program claimed more than 30,000 positions paid for with recovery money. But that figure is overstated by at least 5,000 jobs, according to an Associated Press review of a sample of stimulus contracts."

White House pushback: "AP looked only at the earliest data posted, representing just 2% of Recovery Act spending. … The data errors cited by AP — on about 5,000 jobs — are not significant to the total job count (of hundreds of thousands of jobs) that will be posted on Friday. … It is not surprising that there were errors in these very first postings ever on Recovery.gov — made just three business days after data was submitted."

Pushback to the pushback, from a Senate GOP leadership aide: "Why the AP stimulus story matters: The White House has been so desperate to show some success that they rushed the job numbers out to the press even before they'd fully reviewed them. They bragged about those 30,000 jobs from federal contracts, the ones they now acknowledge aren't really all there. The AP report shows that at least one in six of those jobs never happened. Now, the administration is going to release a much larger report tomorrow—and ask Americans to trust them that it's accurate. By rushing the jobs numbers out before they were final (and, according to the White House, while they were still inaccurate), they got a short-term news cycle, but a long-term credibility problem."

A potentially bigger political problem than anything else on this page: "The moment a novel strain of swine flu emerged in Mexico last spring, President Obama instructed his top advisers that his administration would not be caught flat-footed in the event of a deadly pandemic. Now, despite months of planning and preparation, a vaccine shortage is threatening to undermine public confidence in government, creating a very public test of Mr. Obama's competence," Sheryl Gay Stolberg writes in The New York Times.

"Accepting the manufacturers' assurances may have been ‘naïve on our part,' [HHS Secretary Kathleen] Sebelius said in an interview," Stolberg continues. Plus: "For a president whose aides regard him as the best communicator in the administration, Mr. Obama has been relatively low profile during the pandemic. … His last public reference to H1N1 came on Sept. 23 — one line in a speech to the United Nations General Assembly, in which he promised to contribute vaccine to the World Health Organization."

Also on the president's schedule Thursday: An event on small businesses, at 11:50 am ET. ABC's Sunlen Miller: "The President will deliver remarks to members of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), and small business owners and organizations from across the country on the Administration's plan to help small businesses, including increased access to capital and health reform that gives small businesses the ability to control health costs."

Ominous, on the economy: "An eight-month, 68 percent rally in global stocks failed to convince investors and analysts that it's time to take on more risk or dispel their concerns about U.S. economic policies and its banking system," Bloomberg News' Rich Miller writes. "Only 31 percent of respondents to a poll of investors and analysts who are Bloomberg subscribers in the U.S., Europe and Asia see investment opportunities, down from 35 percent in the previous survey in July. Almost 40 percent in the latest quarterly survey, the Bloomberg Global Poll, say they are still hunkering down. U.S. investors are even more cautious, with more than 50 percent saying they are in a defensive crouch."

Karl Rove's Election 2009 preview: health care is on the ballot, he says. "Democratic enthusiasm for President Barack Obama's liberal domestic agenda — particularly for a government-run health insurance program — could wane after the results of the gubernatorial elections next Tuesday in Virginia and New Jersey. GOP victories in either state will tell Democrats in red states and districts that support for Obama's policies is risky to their political health," Rove writes. ("Either state"?)

Another take on what a split decision would mean: "The issue is really the dysfunctionality of the Republican Party," former Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., said on ABCNews.com's "Top Line" Wednesday. "The Conservative candidate in New York doesn't even live in the district and they're bringing him in. I think it's unlikely he wins at this point, but you know, that's the problem: It's the dysfunctionality of the Republican coalition, people not voting with their heads, voting with their hearts, a lot of emotion."

Chaos in NY-23: a Democratic official points out that Conservative Party nominee Doug Hoffman now has at least six outside groups — spending nearly $760,000 — working for him, and not for the Republican nominee: Club for Growth, Common Sense in America, Susan B. Anthony, Life and Liberty, Eagle Forum, and Minute Men PAC.

Not playing: "Mitt Romney is a Republican and he tends to support the Republican candidate in races and when he can't because there are too many differences on the issues, he stays out of the race altogether and that's the course he's following in the New York special election. He doesn't plan to make any endorsement at all," Romney spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom tells ABC.

Iowa … for a price? "A conservative Iowa group's effort to lure Sarah Palin to its banquet next month has had an unintended effect: Rather than exciting conservatives about the prospect of a visit from the former Alaska governor, the group's plan to raise a six-figure sum to bring her to the state has GOP activists recoiling at the thought of paying to land a politician&# 39;s speaking appearance," Politico's Jonathan Martin reports. "The Iowa Family Policy Center's effort to cobble together $100,000 for Palin would represent a striking departure from customary practice in the first-in-the-nation state, these Republicans say, noting that a generation of White House hopefuls has paid their own way to boost their party and presidential ambitions."

Rebuilding: "Stung by the ‘party of no' label, House Republicans are beginning to prepare a detailed GOP agenda for next year's congressional elections, focusing broadly on efforts to grow the economy, create jobs, and curb the reach of the federal government," per ABC News. "House Minority Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., said House Republicans will eventually roll out ‘something like the contract,' as they seek ways to present their case to an electorate that's shown signs of concern about full Democratic control of Washington."

Time's Jay Newton-Small: "In an effort to counter the criticism that the party doesn't stand for anything but opposing President Obama, Cantor has reconvened the working group that came up with the GOP's alternative to the White House's stimulus plan. That wasn't exactly a big success — the proposal was widely panned for relying too heavily on tax cuts — but Cantor is convinced that taking the long view is the path to success: health care and global warming may be the topics du jour, but ‘the narrative next year leading into the election, will be all about the economy. It'll be about jobs, it'll be about people's economic security.' "

New download: "House Republican leaders have introduced a colorful BlackBerry app called WhipCast that lets members and their aides check talking points and bill facts, follow votes, plan floor action and even keep up with rumors, polls and late-night comedy," Politico's Mike Allen reports.

"I think it'll go viral," said Rep. Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif.,, the GOP's chief deputy whip.

The Kicker:

"For god's sake, I look forward to a time when we have finally done our jobs." — Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla., this time breaking down in tears on the House floor, reading letters from those who lost loved ones who lacked health insurance.

"Consider the source of the most recent attention-getting lies — those who would sell their body for money reflect a desperate need for attention and are likely to say and do anything for even more attention." — Sarah Palin, on Levi Johnston.

For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note's blog . . . all day every day:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/

User Comments

Obama probably has more troop empathy than Bill Clinton did and that’s better I suppose.

Posted by: LongT | October 29, 2009, 9:00 am 9:00 am

President Obama paid his respect to some our our fallen Heroes last night.
But as part of the right-wing Obama Derangement Syndrome (ODS), expect some rants in 3….2….1….

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 9:25 am 9:25 am

They haven’t taken their medicines yet. Expect them any minute now. It’s a pity that everything a leader does nowadays is looked with suspicion (for good reasons) of political calculations. For the country’s sake, I hope Obama really means it for the fallen heroes. They deserve the commander’s salute! Good Job Sir! May God be with you and our country!

Posted by: David | October 29, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am

Interesting that Obama spends a night at Dover while the last administration tried to convince Americans the place didn’t exist.

Posted by: matt | October 29, 2009, 9:49 am 9:49 am

Great Job President Obama our troops deserve the Commander in Cheifs salute and Respect! not just use them for wars like the last guy!

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 29, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am

Republican leaders calling for an investigation of Democrat Donor Perks ARE YOU KIDDING ME? LOL HAHAAH After the Lobbysit ran the Bush White House as well as the Republican congress for 8 years? and all the secrecy that went on get outta here Republicans!

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 29, 2009, 9:54 am 9:54 am

A noble gesture Mr. President… now please send those troops!

Posted by: Shane | October 29, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am

I need more Kool-Aide I am coming out of my Obama induced hallucinations! Obama is an idiot..wait what am I saying hurry bring my kool-aide! Republicans in 2010 & 2012….

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 29, 2009, 10:11 am 10:11 am

Wow, he is trying anything as his poll numbers crater……
Send the troops and win, or pull them out if you won’t support them.

Posted by: thecentrist | October 29, 2009, 10:15 am 10:15 am

I am so tired of Obama and his Photo Op’s his Campaigner and Chief attitude. Get off your ### and give the General what he needs. We need someone who wants real responsibility not to just be a figure head if you want to be a Figure head Move to England and become King!

Posted by: batesba74 | October 29, 2009, 10:20 am 10:20 am

Keep the rants coming. That’s what makes you right-wingers thick.
BTW your Bush guy wanted us to forget about Dover and asked us to go shopping instead.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 10:26 am 10:26 am

Ever occur to you, that your comments sound like they come from some faction of our International Enemies!!! Clearly Your comments sound Un-American, yet I would Surely expect you to refer to yourselves as “True Patriots!”
C’mon, let’s put forth an effort “Not to make this thing, something it isn’t!!!”

Posted by: bobj72 | October 29, 2009, 10:30 am 10:30 am

NEW WAVE
The rants is what makes their party at 20 percent and falling! hahahah

Posted by: ANGIE IN PA | October 29, 2009, 10:32 am 10:32 am

Bush and Cheney wouldn’t even let the media photograph the returning caskets.
After 8 years of containment strategy it is prudent to find the best consensus forward. There should be a rush to judgment only in the minds of defense contractors.

Posted by: brian | October 29, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am

I just listened to an NPR podcast interview with David Rhodes, the NY Times reporter recently held by the Taliban for months. He talks about a hatred of America caused by the use of drones, which frequently cause civilian casualties. He said the Taliban hate Obama more than they hated Bush, because of this. Taliban fighters sound like psychopathic killers, at this point, men who have crossed a line into being death loving zombies, impervious to the idea of ever living in peace. I had thought of the drones as a more effective way of fighting extremists, but now I’m not so sure. Seems like the extremists won’t be happy until we drop an atomic bomb on them. I’m starting to think its the responsibility of moderate Muslim nations to improve the safety and stability of Afghanistan. Why aren’t the Saudis, with all their wealth, engaged in defeating the Taliban? Why aren’t moderate Muslims all over the world engaged in defeating al-Qaida? Islamic extremists are as much a threat, if not more, to them then to the United States.

Posted by: Amy in Maine | October 29, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am

New Wave we will see who is thick in 2010. Then you will still be arrogant Liberals and learn more of a lesson in 2012. By the time Obama, Pelosi, Reed, Dodd and Frank are done, Democrats will forever be considered Liberal lunatics’ and not have a prayer in politics. Don’t forget the split is close to this among the American people, 40% Republican/Conservative 20% Liberal/Democrats and 40% moderate/Independent. And Obama is losing support fast with the Moderate/Independent group.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 10:53 am 10:53 am

nobama12:
At the rate the GOP is going you should change the name to The South Party. In addition, US demographic trends do not look good for the GOP. Recall what GOP Sen Voinovich said 2 months back about the average Ohio voter not recognizing the GOP anymore.
Last Tuesday your Bill Kristol stated that Rush and Beck are the future of the GOP. What a set of role models to have. Keep it up !!

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 10:59 am 10:59 am

Thank you, President Obama.

Posted by: newz4i | October 29, 2009, 10:59 am 10:59 am

Has Obama’s homage scripted? Only Rahm knows for sure.

Posted by: LongT | October 29, 2009, 11:05 am 11:05 am

Yes I remember that and it is also for the following reasons republicans have moved away from fiscal responsibility , family values, smaller Government, in other words they blurred the line between Republicans and Democrats a trend that is changing we are going back to the Reagan Conservative Republican. And with America Still being a Center/Right country this will not work well with the Liberal bordering on Socialist policies of the left. and If you look at the polls Americans trust Republicans more on the 10 most important issues. Not to say this wont change but if Republicans stand by the the Conservative values and rein in those who have strayed to the left Democrats don’t stand a chance.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:08 am 11:08 am

nobama12:
You can quote whatever poll that suits your point of view. As long as the GOP remains the party of no new ideas, you have no CHANCE. Take that to the bank!
BTW Reagan is long dead. New ideas please!!

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 11:16 am 11:16 am

Amy in Maine; Drones are bad. IED’s are good? Hey Taliban and Al Qeada, like a little cheese with that whine? Tells a lot about the mindset of the enemies we are trying to deal with. There is no reasonability behind the actions of our enemies outside the realization that they are determined to create chaos wherever they may be found. “A war has begun that will never end, a war against terror” just as our president stated following 9-11-01. Peace can neither be forcefully imposed nor legislated.

Posted by: mmonroeliveson | October 29, 2009, 11:25 am 11:25 am

You’re a Genius New Wave Reagan is dead on that you are correct but in body only! His ideals and Ideas are not. Republicans have gotten away from those ideals, but there is a renewed sense of purpose and energy in the party and we are going to either 1. Bring back those politicians who have gotten away from those values or 2. Replace them with someone who believes and puts into practice those Ideals.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am

bobj72 —- Our “international enemies” aren’t asking for us to send more troops, we are. While I can respect the fact our President is acknowledging our servicemembers’ sacrifice, a 2 month old decision just NEEDS to be made. Are we in or out?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 11:32 am 11:32 am

nobama12:
Arguing with a right wingnut is like arguing with the dinning table since they take pride in being ignorant.
Let me know how the elections go in Nov 2010. Okay? Think you can handle that?

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 11:33 am 11:33 am

Amy in Maine — True Muslims must not kill their brothers, or anyone else for that matter.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 11:35 am 11:35 am

Our enemies around the world have come to recognize that the U.S. has a Commander in Chief who is both incompetent and weak-kneed and are taking advantage. Not only are our people in Afghanistan suffering due to O’Babble’s indecision but the progress in Iraq appears to be being reversed.

Posted by: Ron | October 29, 2009, 11:38 am 11:38 am

New Wave —- All the Democrats want to do is argue with the GOP. It doesn’t further our progress whatsoever. We need a third party to shake things up.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 11:38 am 11:38 am

New Wave: See that is the Difference between A Liberal and Conservative. We call it a debate you call it an argument and when we bring facts you bring insults. So in proper form and stooping to your level of intellect I offer the following. Arguing with a Liberal is like two kids fighting. I bet your next reply will start something like this. I ‘m rubber your glue, or better yet I know you are but….

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:41 am 11:41 am

Funny how the word RIGHT is used in your description of Republicans/Conservatives. That should tell you something.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:44 am 11:44 am

lfrichar
No one wants to argue with the GOP. What we need from the GOP or any 3rd party are suggestions to how we fix the problems we are facing. Saying NO to everything is not the way to go.
One more thing – the efforts to rewrite the history of the last 8 years will not suffice. You mentioned a decision taking 2 months. The Iraq surge decision took 3 months. What did you say about that?
The level of hypocrisy from the Right is baffling.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 11:44 am 11:44 am

nobama12:
The word ‘Facts’ used as something that applies to the GOP seems to be misplaced. We know who promotes falsehoods about our President to change topics or feed the news cycle.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 11:49 am 11:49 am

Posted by: New Wave | Oct 29, 2009 11:44:57 AM New Wave you do realize that the Democratic leadership has locked the Republicans out of any input on this Healthcare bill. We have solutions they are free market solutions. Increase Competition across state lines, tort reform, we even will mandate that someone can not be turned away because of pre-existing conditions and aid to those who can not afford health care.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:51 am 11:51 am

nobama12:
The word ‘Facts’ used as something that applies to the GOP seems to be misplaced. We know who promotes falsehoods about our President to change topics or feed the news cycle.
Posted by: New Wave | Oct 29, 2009 11:49:12 AM:
I think your response falls under the I’m rubber your glue reply…

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 11:53 am 11:53 am

nobama12:
We had 3 GOP senators negotiate with 3 DEM senators in the Senate Finance Committee. In August, 2 of the 3 GOP Senators were bragging about how they are delaying the process.
GOP Sen Grassely (spelling?) even admitted in September that he would still vote against the committee bill he was negotiating even if all his amendments were accepted. And you talk about locking out the GOP?
GOP Sen Demint in April stated that GOP will defeat Healthcare reform so that it will break President Obama and be waterloo. How’s that good faith approach?

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 11:57 am 11:57 am

“We have solutions they are free market solutions. Increase Competition across state lines, tort reform, we even will mandate that someone can not be turned away because of pre-existing conditions and aid to those who can not afford health care.” — nobama12
You basically defined what the Public Option would do along with Tort Reform and removing Health Insurance antitrust exemption.
Thanks for supporting the Public Option. Now call your Rep & Senator to vote for the bil.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm

R.I.P. to our brave soldiers. IF Obama had gone to this without an entourage of reporters, this may have looked sincere. After midnight with EVERY MSM news reporter is called ANOTHER PHOTO OP. He knows his ratings are going down, so he is trying everything.

Posted by: wheresmymoney | October 29, 2009, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm

Of course it is part of his strategy. EVERYTHING he does is thought out. The media knew about this because barry’s people told them about it so he could have a photo op. Very sad.
This president has played more golf in 9 months then George Bush did in years, had several date nights, went on Leno to make fun of handicapped people, appeared on ESPN, had NUMEROUS fiestas at the White House (all of which are on the public’s dime) and flown to amsterdam to lobby for the olympics. But somehow he can’t seem to find the time to make a decision on afganistan??
People, we have elected rev wright to the presidency. He is not being indecisive, he is being political. He hates America, and certainly doesn’t think we deserve to “win” in afganistan, but he has to appear as if he does.

Posted by: Dave | October 29, 2009, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm

“We have solutions they are free market solutions. Increase Competition across state lines, tort reform, we even will mandate that someone can not be turned away because of pre-existing conditions and aid to those who can not afford health care.” — nobama12
You basically defined what the Public Option would do along with Tort Reform and removing Health Insurance antitrust exemption.—-New Wave
No it is NOT the Public Option, because there are no “earmarks and special favors” hidden in it.
Pelosi slipped in 10 C-17 jets (that were not requested) in the Defense Budget for her flying pleasure.
At over 1900 pages for healthcare, one can only imagine (because they won’t let us see it) what is hidden in this bill.

Posted by: wheresmymoney | October 29, 2009, 12:13 pm 12:13 pm

New Wave how do you explain this? The House of Representatives, ever the rowdier and more populist of the two chambers of Congress, has been the scene of incessant partisan warfare in 2009, as each party appears to be in a near-constant state of outrage over the behavior of the other. The picture got uglier this week when Democrats on a House committee changed the locks on a hearing room door. House Oversight and Government Reform Committee was set to hold a routine business meeting. Before the session, its ranking Republican, Rep. Darrell Issa (Calif.), made clear that he planned to call for the panel to subpoena Bank of America for documents related to Countrywide Financial Corp.’s infamous “Friends of Angelo” VIP mortgage program…When Thursday’s committee meeting began, however, the Democrats were absent, and Republican members said they waited for more than half an hour before being told the session had been canceled because of scheduling conflicts. Democrats, meanwhile, were meeting in a private room behind the hearing room. A Republican aide videotaped Democratic lawmakers leaving that gathering through a back door. On Monday, panel Democrats had the lock changed on the door leading from the GOP’s office space into the main hearing room.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:16 pm 12:16 pm

wheresmymoney:
Bring in GOP playbook. Change the topic, confuse, spin.
What has 10 C-17 jets got to do with the Healthcare bill?

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm

New Wave
Liberal play book: Blame America for everything wrong with the world. Create havoc in the economy with gov’t intervention. Claim that the only way to stop the havoc is by more govt intervention.
The jets are just a glimpse of what these liberal idiots are capable of “sneaking in” when no one is looking. They are spending our money like drunken sailors and the jets are a perfect example.
The 1900 page bill, that we not ALLOWED TO READ, could have tons of things the average American would oppose but won’t even know about.

Posted by: Dave | October 29, 2009, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm

nobama12:
I take from your post regarding activities in the House that you do not know who Tom Delay was. And that you do not know what GOP antics in the House has been. Or is this the case of selective amnesia? We shall all reap what we sow.
Again, attempts to act as if events of 2000 – 2008 did not happen will not work. From listening to the GOP, someone new in the US would think that Bill Clinton handed over to President Obama.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm

Seeing this President salute is really funny….. He can’t make a decision on anything…. looks like he has decided to vote “Present” on Afghanistan.

Posted by: Speakinuptoo | October 29, 2009, 12:25 pm 12:25 pm

It’s touching but I suspect just another bit of clever campaigning.
Everything this guy does is part of a strategy.
Meanwhile the deficit/debt situation marches on in spite of the July CBO report stating:
“The federal budget is on an unsustainable path — meaning that federal debt will continue to grow much faster than the economy over the long run . . . . Rising costs for health care and the aging of the U.S. population will cause federal spending to increase rapidly . . . . “

Posted by: Ed Taylor | October 29, 2009, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm

New Wave: The public option is a government health insurance program akin to Medicare, which would be open to anyone. So lets look at Medicare AKA Government run Healthcare.
Medicare frequently denies payment. In 2001, 3.7 million appeals were filed for denial of payment by Medicare Part B. Despite a 2000 law requiring swift processing of appeals, a 2003 report by the General Accounting Office found significant delays in appeals processing.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

Medicare wastes taxpayer money. Over the past 7 years, almost $107 billion in improper payments have been made for services provided to recipients of the traditional fee-for-service Medicare program. CCHC calculated that the $13.3 billion loss in 2002 equals $36.4 million per day.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm

New Wave: Tom Delay has been out of office for 4 years! What does he have to do with Health Care!

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm

Medicare threatens patient privacy. The federal government requires home health agencies to regularly send private data on Medicare recipients. This is called the Outcomes Assessment Information System (OASIS) In addition, doctors and hospitals that make inadvertent errors in billing Medicare can be forced to hand over the patient’s entire medical record for investigation of fraud

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm

Doctors, hospitals and others who accept Medicare patients are at enormous risk. There are over 130,000 pages of Medicare regulations that must be meticulously followed. In 1996, Congress made health care fraud a federal crime – a felony. Even minor billing errors can be considered fraud. Fines start at $10,000 per violation

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm

Mr. President: Any “surprise trip” with this sort of coverage is little more than a PR photo op. Get back to work and try to think of something better than cash handout programs to convince the public that you have the economic situation under control.

Posted by: Publius | October 29, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm

The Iraq surge decision took 3 months. What did you say about that?
The level of hypocrisy from the Right is baffling.
Posted by: New Wave
There was no precedence for the Iraq surge idea, there is now. That’s what I say about that! Alos, I am not any right wing nut. I want to start a new party called the party of “Common Freekin’ Sense”, are you in? Otherwise, keep labelling everyone that doesn’t agree with you a right winger and we will watch as your Dems lose seats in the next elections.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm

What has 10 C-17 jets got to do with the Healthcare bill?
Posted by: New Wave | Oct 29, 2009 12:18:49 PM
**********
From this remark, I can see it is very difficult to have more than one thing going on in your brain at a time, so let me try and make it easier.
The stimulus bill – They have overestimated (lied) about the number of jobs saved or created. Somewhere in the 1000 page bill, we paid for PORN, MICE, the list goes on and on.
Defense spending goes here. Stay with me.
GM is now asking for MORE money, from guess who? Another Government disaster.
This Administration can’t even get enough flu vaccines for the populace(they still haven’t figured out a way to blame this on Bush). They knew about this since March, warned us, but didn’t DO enough about it. Does it not concern you that they cannot even get a vaccine right? Is this another CRISIS they don’t want to waste?
Still with me? Here’s the point…. This administration only spends money to advance their own agenda. They have WASTED OUR money on PAYBACKS and frivilous PLANES, whatever they wanted, even though we are in a recession. They should not be TRUSTED with healthcare.

Posted by: wheresmymoney | October 29, 2009, 12:50 pm 12:50 pm

lfrichar | Oct 29, 2009 12:48:09 PM
Be a conservative. You are always welcome.

Posted by: nobama12 | October 29, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm

“Iraq Surge had no precedence” – lfrichar
Please note that ‘copy and paste’ method does not work in Presidential decisions.
“What has Tom Delay got to do with Healthcare” – nobama12
That’s the right wingnut problem – circular debate that results in everyone spinning. You bring up healthcare debate, I respond. You then bring up House procedural issues, I respond by reminding you of GOP House antics led by a past GOP leader. You turn around and ask what a past GOP leader has do to with healthcare.
There is a proverb I learned in the past and that applies to your mode of debate: A sane man was having a bath in a stream and another man who was insane started chasing the sane one. A bystander saw the two men and proclaimed that 2 insane men were running naked.
Translation: The GOP confuses everyone in a debate and tries to bring people down to their level so that everyone including themselves will look bad. They prefer this approach instead of accepting the facts when they are different from their initial standpoint.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm

New Wave — It’s a fine line “cut and paste” and “precedence” isn’t it? We’re fighting the same war, against the same enemy, in a similar battlefield. Wow, it wouldn’t take a genius to understand it has a much better chance to succeed than not, would you not agree?

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 2:10 pm 2:10 pm

lfrichar
I recommend you consult some history books regarding differences between Iraqis and Afghans. You would not say that we are fighting the same enemy.
Also ‘cookie-cutter methods’ do not have a place in strategic decisions.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 2:21 pm 2:21 pm

New Wave — Another cure phrase to try and disprove “cookie cutter”. I have been in both countries and we are fighting very similar terrorists. Are you trying to tell me a surge of 40,000 more troops doesn’t have a better than 50% chance of success? Are you telling me Obama shouldn’t even look at how the surge worked in Iraq. I know history of both Iraq and Afghanistan and can tell you the only difference between the terrorists is their accents.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 2:57 pm 2:57 pm

lfrichar
Iraq surge worked because of increase in troops as well as partnership with Iraqi groups (Sons of Iraq, etc).
Assuming the same approach against the Taliban, who are we going to partner with? The Northern Alliance is no longer in place.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm

Assuming the same approach against the Taliban, who are we going to partner with? The Northern Alliance is no longer in place.
Posted by: New Wave
How ’bout with the Afghan government and the troops and police force we are training? We need to help their government gain the confidence of the people to protect them. The population doesn’t want Al Qaeda or the Taliban, although I believe the Taliban will be part of their political system, but not all of it.

Posted by: lfrichar | October 29, 2009, 3:17 pm 3:17 pm

lfrichar:
That’s a good idea. I understand that the need for ramping up Afghan force training as been agreed upon. We’ll see what the CIC decides.

Posted by: New Wave | October 29, 2009, 3:30 pm 3:30 pm

I couldn’t change the channel fast enought. How disgusting obama’s “stroll” was down the aisle saluting. He can’t even walk in dignity.

Posted by: tuxent13 | October 29, 2009, 3:37 pm 3:37 pm

Fact is Obama just needs to listen to the General, he knows best know if are talking about teaching a certain group (acorn) how to illegally register voters to rig elections then listen to Obama he is the expert! 10 states and counting..

Posted by: batesba74 | October 29, 2009, 4:33 pm 4:33 pm

Leave a Reply

Do you have more information about this topic? If so, please click here to contact the editors of ABC News.