Will Health Care Bill Raise Taxes? Finance Committee Debates
EmailABC News Z. Byron Wolf reports: Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee have taken delight this morning in pointing out that if Democrats can enact a health care reform bill that mandates Americans buy health insurance or pay a fine, they are, by definition, enacting a new tax that would break President Obama’s campaign pledge. And they have taken the opportunity to read Sen. Obama’s pledge as he was running for the White House. GOP Sen. Mike Crapo of Idaho, quoting Obama, said, “If you're a family making less than $250,000 a year, my plan will not raise your taxes — not your income taxes, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains tax.” Sen. John Ensign of Nevada quoted a different riff on the same sentiment. “But let me be perfectly clear,” he said, quoting candidate Obama. “If your family makes less than $250,000, you will not see your taxes increase one single dime.” Granted, the penalty for not obtaining health insurance would be a penalty and could be avoided by purchasing insurance, but the effect of the bill – the government exacting a fee from uninsured families who make less than $250,000 — cannot be denied. Republicans have offered several amendments today that would exempt families making less than $250,000 from the individual mandate to buy health insurance that is at the core of the reform bill. “If we want to keep the president's promise of not raising taxes by one single dime,” said Ensign, the pledge should be a part of the reform bill. “We need to settle down and find ways of living within the promises that have been made,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. The author of the bill, Max Baucus, D-Mont., was frustrated at times, arguing against the amendments. “If we're serious about this, we have to have shared responsibility,” Baucus said, raising his voice. He called the amendments not serious and designed simply to send a message by Republicans about taxes. They would have the effect, said Baucus, of gutting the provisions in the bill that keep health reform from adding to the deficit. Baucus had lowered the penalty in half at the outset of the markup. A family of four making more than four times the poverty level – about $88,000 – would have to pay a fine of $1,900 for not having insurance. The penalty is lower for families making less money. Other amendments, also turned back, would have scaled back an excise tax Baucus would place on insurance companies that offer high-value “Cadillac” insurance plans. This is a back door to taxing the people who receive those plans, which often include no co-payment and are thought to drive up the cost of health care. And Republicans argued that insurance companies would simply pass the excise tax along to people, many of them union members, who receive the plans. Baucus had raised the value of the plans that would be taxed at the outset of the markup and exempted many people in public service who receive them. The amendments were repelled with largely party line votes. Sen. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., who faces a tough reelection fight in 2010, sided with Republicans. This is the seventh day of the markup. Tomorrow, it will become the longest markup staffers on the committee can find. There probably will not be a final vote on the health reform bill in the Senate Finance Committee until next week, when the CBO can come up with its best guess cost estimate. We are entering the final stretch of the amendment process, which Baucus predicted would end either late Thursday or Friday. UPDATE: Eagle-eyed Republicans point out that Baucus’ own bill refers to the penalty for not having insurance under an individual mandate as an excise tax. Check out page 29 HERE. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs today referred to the tax as more like a speeding ticket. The IRS says an excise tax is what is paid on something like motor fuel. But the point remains that health reform will leave people who make less than $250,000 paying a new tax to the government. It's clear that Democrats and the White House are comfortable living with that if they can enact health care reform.
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Absolutely, and without question, it will raise taxes, and in my opinion, it will NOT reduce any health care costs, whatsoever.
You have to remove the profiteering to reduce health care costs, and this plan does NOT reduce profiteering.
This has been just a huge waste of time and money, in the entire debate, for basically, nothing gained.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | October 1, 2009, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm
health care reform as it is being discussed in congress is a new tax and will raise the costs for everyone.
EVERYONE of us WILL PAY MORE for LESS!
Posted by: scott jeffries | October 1, 2009, 2:43 pm 2:43 pm
I can’t wait to hear the clown (Robert Gibbs) laugh it off in the press room when the new taxes eventually hit. Besides, do you think Obama or his lap dog press corps care if he breaks another campaign pledge?
Posted by: s | October 1, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm
All of this takes focus away from what our reps have handed to them with our tax dollars. It is absolutely preposterous what our representatives on both sides are doing. Talk about hypocrisy. They need to walk in the real world before they try to overhaul an entire system. Any change should be incremental, starting with what can be immediately improved upon. Starting with the health care / insurance that our representative receive would be a good start.
Posted by: tired of it | October 1, 2009, 3:02 pm 3:02 pm
We all have to have auto insurance, is that a tax. I don’t recall the Republicans making a fuss over mandating auto insurance. They are all full of it. They just want this bill to fail. They do not care about the American people they care about power and are not going to cross the ones that have given them power. The mega rich insurance companies.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 3:25 pm 3:25 pm
No Matter what the Democrats purpose the Party of NO Will say NO! Simple thats all there is to it.
Posted by: Angie in PA | October 1, 2009, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm
So what the Republicans are saying is that the insurance companies are going to make their money, no matter what we do. They will just pass the cost on to the consumer. This is exactly why the public option is necessary. If they jack up your rates you can go to the public option. If they don’t want to compete with the public option then they can take their greed somewhere else. The Republicans againg trying to use scare tactics, but this makes no since because they are pointing out exactly why a public option is necessary. Now they want to madate insurance and want the Government to supplement it so the insuance companies get all the money. It is rediculas. They don’t care about the American people.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 3:31 pm 3:31 pm
“”"”"”We all have to have auto insurance, is that a tax. “”"”"
Posted by: texas outlaw
Auto insurance covers liability. You can hurt or kill someone with your vehicle. The only person you can hurt for health insurance is you. Some people believe they are young and strong and don’t need it. Should tht not be their decision, not the governments’?
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm
Texas outlaw
bingo you hit the nail on the head!
Posted by: Angie in PA | October 1, 2009, 3:35 pm 3:35 pm
You would have to be a fool not to think this mess of a bill will not raise taxes. They are supposedly going to pay for it by cutting out waste in Medicare. Yeah right!!! How about doing it first then spending it, no one in their right mind thinks you are going to do it. But the smoke and mirror Democrats will do that, THEN come back and TAX everyone for this BS.
Posted by: Tony T | October 1, 2009, 3:38 pm 3:38 pm
texas outlaw —- You do understand that insurance rates rise in direct relation to health care costs right? If health care costs rise, premiums rise. As those costs rise, would the government run program not need to raise their rates? How can they not unless the government is ready to heavily subsidize the health care costs themselves? Health care costs and insurance premiums are 2 different things. Creating a government subsidized insurance company does nothing to help lower actual health care costs.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm
Angie in PA —- I agree, he has a nail in his head. So you and Texas do not believe this plan will increase our taxes?
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm
texas outlaw : “This is exactly why the public option is necessary.” Why so the working people who have health insurance can pay for those who don’t? Bigger government, more freebies and politicians involved with health care is something no thinking American wants. I prefer the party of NO, to the party of “Lets spend money we don’t have on things we don’t need and that Americans don’t want, to line our pockets from our special interest buds”. NO kinda sounds better now doesn’t it?
Posted by: Tony T | October 1, 2009, 3:43 pm 3:43 pm
Lfrichar, So if I believe I am a good driver and will not run into another car shouldn’t I be able to choose to do without insurance. No one can predict if they are going to get cancer or not, or get hit by someone that does not have auto insurance. Then who pays. People get sick and nothing is ever going to stop that. Besides that, when are we going to come together as a society to protect everyone who gets sick or injured. I would rather put up with pot holes in the road and have health care. Let’s get off this me me me stuff and work as a caring society.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 3:44 pm 3:44 pm
Tony T, people who have insurance are not going to pay more. You must be listening to Glen Becks lies. Just because you don’t need insurance the 40 something million that don’t just don’t matter. Your a Republican all right. Why should we be willing to help someone else. It’s al about me.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 3:56 pm 3:56 pm
texas outlaw —- You don’t understand. With a car, you can kill someone else. If you get cancer, it will kill you or you will spend your money to fight it. You are not affecting anyone else. You say get off this me me me stuff? I did over 3 years in the deserts of Iraq, Saudi, Turkey and several others in my 20+ year career. In my 2nd career, I continue to pay my taxes and keep my health up. MANY youngsters have let themselves go before they hit 25. Many still live at home and freeload from the family when they get the chance. I served in the military and continue to serve outside of it. Me me me never came into view at my house and it never will. The government still receives my taxes and does what they see fit, it’s no longer “by the people for the people”. So when you say me me me, please look at those who have been abusing systems like medicare, unemployment, disability, etc. Those systems are where we need to look for fraud, waste and abuse. As a hard working American, I am doiong my part, but can only go so far.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 3:59 pm 3:59 pm
“the point remains that health reform will leave people who make less than $250,000 paying a new tax to the government” – So much for objective journalism from ABC. This is complete and total rhetorical baloney and the corporate media seems to be buying into it. OK, Republicans and ABC – Obama announces that the Sun rises in the East and sets in the West – now get going, you have a lot of semantic bs to think up.
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm
To be honest, I don’t care if it raises my taxes. The Republicans act like our Government is part of the Axis of Evil or something, even though they are part of our Government. Our Government is made up of American people like you and me. I can see where supercial people that need money to make themselves feel good would have an issue with taxes that go to help the sick.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:04 pm 4:04 pm
texas outlaw –You made the point that lfrichar was making, good for you. You cannot predict if SOMEONE ELSE is going to hit you with their car and therefore they are required to have LIABILITY insurance not collision to protect yourself.
Posted by: sammy | October 1, 2009, 4:05 pm 4:05 pm
Tony T is all about the imagenary things that the Republicans have come up with in the bill. None of them want to actually address what is written in the bill they just want to make up scenarios and call it the truth. At least the Dems are willing to back there words with written law that everyone can see. Why don’t we deal with the actual bill at hand instead of looking into the crystal ball with your outlandish predecitions that are basically scare tactics.
Posted by: texas outlaw
—Oh, I see, lets put our head in the sand and hope none of what the republicans say come true????
Posted by: sammy | October 1, 2009, 4:08 pm 4:08 pm
lfchair, so the people that get cancer that don’t have money or insurance are just SOL. Your point is rediculas, and your attitude toward the needy is horendus. So what your saying is that if someone that makes 80k a year that chooses not to pay insurance gets cancer and can’t work, and can’t get insurance now is SOL. Should hospitals turn people with no insurance away? This is all unrealistic. People are going to go to the hospital when they get sick with our without insurance and the cost is going to come down on us. I just prefer to address the issue then to pretend it isn’t happening.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:10 pm 4:10 pm
Just remember the famous quote from Thomas Jefferson..” “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.”
Looks as if Jefferson was right once again.
Posted by: angus | October 1, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm
texas outlaw —- You said “”At least the Dems are willing to back there words with written law that everyone can see”"”. Then why are they against releasing the final draft for the promised 5 days (although I think they have change dthat to 3)? Also, how can you not care (nor why would you worry) if they raise your taxes when Obama promised he wouldn’t? You’re basically saying “I don’t care if the President lied, I will still pay”.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:14 pm 4:14 pm
“Oh, I see, lets put our head in the sand and hope none of what the republicans say come true????” – 45,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. Now – whose heads are in the sand?
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 4:15 pm 4:15 pm
Sammy, When it comes time to raise taxes then we deal with that then. There will have to be a written bill that will be voted on. Remember all these Republicans where saying our economy is great and we have nothing to worry about. I think their crystal ball is broken.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm
Sammy: Read HR3400. THAT IS THE REPUBLICAN BILL. Tort reform, no state insurance boundaries and insurance companies MUST cover everyone. I am an independent voter, but more than that I have common sense and the stuff the Dems are selling don’t make sense. Why would/should I want to give up more of my money when the government already wastes billions? What makes you libs think the government can do anything correctly? If it free I’ll take three, is your motto.
Posted by: Tony T | October 1, 2009, 4:20 pm 4:20 pm
texas outlaw — I am saying that someone making $80K a year should make the sane decision to have insurance. Those who are poor and cannot afford insurance need to be addressed ASAP. If someone who can afford insurance and decides not to pay is of their own choosing and will lose everything they have worked for on their own decision of not wanting insurance. Insurance is exactly that. I have been paying auto insurance since I was 16 and never used it once. Do I need it, yes. But only because there is that chance I hit and hurt someone. Do I need health insurance, no. But I would only be hurting me if I was to get sick. You say it’s unrealistic, eventhough it is happening right now, so how is it unrealistic? Your view of insurance is more like a government safety net paid for by the taxpayer. You would probably be in favor of universal, single payer health care.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:21 pm 4:21 pm
Sammy if someone is driving a car without insurance and runs into you your screwed. You can take them to court, but your probably not going to get much because they couldn’t even afford car insurance. WE ALL PAY FOR THOSE THAT DON’T HAVE INSURANCE ANYWAY.
Let’s not put our head in the sand and act like it is not happening. Let’s put the cost on paper and figure out how to get it paied for in the most effeciant way. Right now the insurance companies are making a ton of money off of this system and we can fix that.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:21 pm 4:21 pm
Texas Outlaw: Can you give me ONE LIE that you suggest Beck has stated? If you don’t start thinking for yourself and just blindly follow you wuill spend your entire life tripping and falling. I like 85% of the country am conservative (look it up) and don not want to see the country in the toilet. You answer this: Would you rather spend 1 trillion dollar of money we don’t have to build fake competition for the health insurance industry OR would you rather say that the 1300 insurance companies can sell across state lines (WHICH IS FREE TO DO)?? I will wait patiently.
Posted by: Tony T | October 1, 2009, 4:23 pm 4:23 pm
“Then why are they against releasing the final draft for the promised 5 days.” – There is no final draft. The Republicans are just trying to drag out the process. First with six months of “negotiations” that even McConnell now admits there was no way they were going to support a compromise. Now they want to drag it out even more so the lobbyists will have a chance to water the legislation down even more. I know there are a few Republicans who have our interests at heart and truly want reform, but why are they hiding behind Cantor, Grassley and McConnell’s skirts on this life or death issue?
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 4:23 pm 4:23 pm
“”"”45,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. “”"”"
Mark from atlanta
First, that’s an estimate. 2nd, if they don’t have health insurance, they still cannot be denied care by law. Your 45,000 is bogus. How could you even try to prove that number? Unless you use the same one for “saving or creating 3 million jobs”.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:24 pm 4:24 pm
Mark from atlanta — The Dems can put it up for a vote anytime they want. Right now, according to every news outlet including ABC, blue dogs dems and dems are fighting about it as they have been for months. That has nothing to do with the GOP. I say put it up for a vote and see what happens.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:27 pm 4:27 pm
Mark from atlanta — Peosi couldn’t get all the Democrats to agree to go to the bar even if she was buying the drinks. You would blame their infighting on the GOP? That is ridiculous.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm
“First, that’s an estimate. 2nd, if they don’t have health insurance, they still cannot be denied care by law. Your 45,000 is bogus. How could you even try to prove that number?” – Google “Harvard study on deaths due to lack of insurance” if you question their methodology. These epidemiologists used data, not “estimates.” As far as not being denied care by law, that only applies to the emergency room. Many health conditions can be helped through primary care. By the time they have to go to the ER its too late. Thats 45,000 a year, enough men, women and children to fill a football stadium. To make it more concrete, imagine some of those 45,000 were your close relatives or friends. Think about it. Lets put ideology aside and come up with solutions.
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm
Yes I believe we should be advanced enough as a society and as human beings to provide care for everyone. I think we should be more caring as a society instead of acting like we still live in the jungle where only the strong survive. As for the comments about people taking advantage of the system. Yes it is true, but it happens at both ends of the scale. The rich insurance companies shouldn’t scam me but they do so they can buy another mansion on the lake with another yacht at the dock. I think I would rather give my money to the guy on the street. It doesn’t mean I am not for doing what we can to stop the scammers on both ends of the spectrum.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:36 pm 4:36 pm
Prediction: After all is said and done, after all our elected representatives and naysayer neocons have voiced differing opinions in the various bills, the president will intervene and include single payer and it will be passed with the healthcare reform bill through reconciliation. This is partly the reason President Obama was elected and he knows that. I would say it will pass with 60 votes, but I don’t want to get anyone upset.
Posted by: zee | October 1, 2009, 4:37 pm 4:37 pm
Ok lfichar, how many people should be able to die each year because they don’t have insurance?
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:37 pm 4:37 pm
I see the Senate finance committee rejected laguage that a person show ID proof of being legal. I guess Joe Wilson was right, right?
Posted by: jamescbuilder | October 1, 2009, 4:37 pm 4:37 pm
“You would blame their infighting on the GOP? That is ridiculous.” – You are absolutely right. I am not a Democrat. If the Dems do not pass a meaningful reform bill this year, including a robust public option they (and I) cannot blame it on the Republicans, even if the Republicans led the opposition.
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 4:38 pm 4:38 pm
Lfchair, Democrats actually have debates within the party to come up with the something everyone can live with. Unlike the Republicans lemmings that just follow the leader because they just want to say they won instead of doing what is best. Funny how when you as the voter voice your decent it’s All American, but when Dems in the same party do it is a sign of weakness. You must be weak because your not following the leader of our country.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:41 pm 4:41 pm
The truth is the IRS will inspect your taxes, decide for you if you can afford insurance and you will be fined should you not pay for insurance. That’s what is in the Dem bill now. That is what the Repubs are trying to draw attention to. There will be no free health care except for the very poor. Got that? They are trying to show this bill will increase everyone’s bottom line. Personally, I don’t have a problem with this because people should be paying for their health care coverage now anyway.
Posted by: pam | October 1, 2009, 4:50 pm 4:50 pm
I wish the liberals who cry “keep your laws off of my body” would chime in to oppose laws that require me to pay for health insurance.
Posted by: ruggierol | October 1, 2009, 4:51 pm 4:51 pm
Tony T. – Fake competiton for the insurance companies. I mean if it is not going to competition, then what are the insurance companies worried about. You would rather that trillion dollars go to the rich that don’t need it, then to the poor and sick that do. What does that say about you.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:53 pm 4:53 pm
texas outlaw — According to Mark from Atlanta, 45000 people die from not having insurance. While I still question the study, I am a firm believer we should pinpoint our initial reform on costs, not insurance. Health care costs drive insurance premiums. I am all for the 30 million or so getting government run insurance. I also believe those that can’t afford insurance now, will still not be able to afford the government insurance premiums because without lowering health care costs, the premiums will not lower too much (I am guessing 25%). Pinpoint costs and those without insurance and you will gain more public support. What is proposed is “overhaul” not “reform”. People want reform, not overhaul.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
texas outlaw and Mark from Atlanta– Bafore I go I will say this: Any programs riddled with fraud, waste and abuse, when reformed, will be a new program riddled with fraud, waste and abuse. Thanks for your spirited conversation and I look forward to future posts. Take care.
Posted by: lfrichar | October 1, 2009, 4:58 pm 4:58 pm
Jamesbuilder- Wilson is a lier. The Republicans put this ammendment up just to get folks like you riled up. The bill already states it does not cover undocumented workers. There are already bills on the books to cover that. The Republicans are trying to play tripple stampies like some school children. It was just to mislead the American People. Immagration is a whole other ball of wax, as well as tort reform. Republicans can bring these bills to the floor and have them voted on and nothing can stop them from that. Again this is just to tie another hot topic with Americans into this bill. Another scare tactic.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 4:59 pm 4:59 pm
Zee, I wouldn’t bet on single payor, but wouldn’t be supprised if the public option is done through reconciliation because the Republicans are going to keep saying no to everything as well as continueing to scare people with their rediculas lies.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 5:07 pm 5:07 pm
you are required to buy auto insurance because it is a privilege to use the roads provided by the government. if you do not have a car, you don’t have to buy insurance. many people depend on public transportation and are not required to purchase insurance. never has the government of the united states taxed you (and then fined and jailed you if you did not pay) for living – not doing anything else, simply existing. “shared responsibility” is a fine concept except that i do not need the government deciding the responsibility i should share. take the mandate to its logical conclusion. if you are required to purchase insurance based on how much you make, who determines the exemptions and reductions. For instance, i may make 88K a year, but pay 1,000K a month to my church, or charity, or another couple of hundred a month for my mother or disabled relative. there are many expenses that i pay that do not reflect on my taxes. your gross income is not reflective of your discretionary income. on paper, the government may say i can afford it, but in reality, i can’t. if that is the case with auto insurance, i make the decision between the hardship associated with no auto insurance (not driving, taking the bus, walking) versus paying it and not paying other things. additionally, if 88k is the cut off, is it right that i can be fined and jailed for an obligation that someone who makes 87,999.50 (50cents less) does not even have to pay or can get supplements for? also, since the amendment to provide photo id to buy into a public plan was voted down yesterday, then illegal immigrants, who report no taxes, show no income, etc., will not have to pay. the two concepts, public option and private pay, are incompatible. you can have one or the other, but not both. trying to combine them is the problem that doesn’t have a solution and neither side wants to admit it.
Posted by: independentcarter | October 1, 2009, 5:17 pm 5:17 pm
“The truth is the IRS will inspect your taxes, decide for you if you can afford insurance” – That is only if you are applying for a subsidy. This already occurs with student financial aid. The first thing they ask for on the financial aid form is your previous year’s tax info, yet I do not hear the Republican’s complaining about that. The IRS thing is just another red herring the Republicans are throwing up in order to kill any kind or reform. Along with “death panels” and “socialsim” its another indication of how they have only criticisms and not solutions (I speak of most Republicans, I suspect there are some who truly want reform, but they seem to be melded to the party line).
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 5:18 pm 5:18 pm
“”shared responsibility” is a fine concept except that i do not need the government deciding the responsibility i should share?” – So if you are ina car wreck and go to the ER I have to pay for YOUR care through higher premiums? Thats why we need a mandate.
Posted by: Mark from atlanta | October 1, 2009, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
You can rest assured that the Democrats will pass the health care bill any way possible. I hope when that happens there is a list of house and senate members and how they voted passed around the internet. We can vote ALL of them out of office who voted for it. The next question is can the law be repealed by the next group who takes office ?
Posted by: Paper tiger | October 1, 2009, 5:28 pm 5:28 pm
Independantcarter- Your entry is full of wholes. For one, if you loose your job your not going to get fined or pay the same amount you where before and you will still have insurance. As for the auto insurance and driving a privilage is a joke. Real people need a car to function in this society. Yes some people can get by without a car but it is just not realistic. Also everyone pays taxes for the roads the cars drive on. So if I walk to work can I be exempt from paying that tax? So lets get real instead of talking about idiology. Also you sure can get arrested if you get pulled and have no auto insurance. I can drive my car without it until I get pulled. That is the same thing as someone not having health insurance until they get sick. Like taxes for roads, and libraries and such are paied even if I use them or not. It is what is best for society not what is best for me that really matters.
Posted by: texas outlaw | October 1, 2009, 5:31 pm 5:31 pm
No, Mark from Atlanta, everyone who makes a certain amount over the poverty level will be expected to buy insurance. The subsidy, or public plan, will be one of the choices. The choice of whether to pay for insurance, whether subsidized or not, will no longer be available. Everyone must be insured or there will be no “savings”. That’s why people will be fined if they don’t buy insurance.
Posted by: pam | October 1, 2009, 5:33 pm 5:33 pm
Duh
Posted by: Bob | October 1, 2009, 5:49 pm 5:49 pm
Healthcare cost continue to rise anyway. If they aren’t in your taxes they’ll be raised by insurance companies. For employers, it’s at about 12 percent annually. They’ll either stop covering employees or they will increase co-pays. Alternatively, they will produce less, reduce product quality or shift the cost to consumers, making them less competitive. If they want to remain competitive, they’ll move jobs to other countries where overhead costs are lower. Without real healthcare reform, Americans will continue to pay increased costs for government (Medicare, Medicaid, veterans programs) increases and increased cost to insurance companies.
Posted by: 63tango | October 1, 2009, 6:13 pm 6:13 pm
Hey TEXAS OUTLAW, here in N.H. we do not have to have auto insurance and I believe other states still allow personal freedoms such as this. Check your facts before you make assumptions that all states have similar laws.
Posted by: jim 234 | October 1, 2009, 6:51 pm 6:51 pm
People, you can’t start any government programs without either raising taxes or borrowing the money from other countries (primarily China) no matter what President, whether it’s President Obama, Bush, Carter, or Lincoln, says it, usually that’s how things work. It’s really time to come off “Fantasy Island” and get real. It just amazes me how people can be so misinformed. It doesn’t matter how much you jump up and down at yell “President Obama isn’t going to raise taxes!” It isn’t so. You can look down your noses and insult republicans and conservatives and still no amount of this will change the facts. No amount of arguing and complaining and bringing up what people say their going to do is going to change the facts. Government programs are either run by raising taxes or borrowing the money. President Clinton pretended that he balanced the budget. President Obama won’t have that luxury. Blame who you want,(my prayer is that President Obama’s Plan won’t go through and will be stopped by a landslide victory for the Republicans simply because we need to step back and look at what’s being proposed)this is not a good plan no matter what anyone says.
Posted by: john | October 1, 2009, 6:53 pm 6:53 pm
I also just can’t believe that people think it’s a good idea to be “FORCED” to buy health insurance. WHAT ARE PEOPLE THINKING? Would you want to be forced to buy a car simply because the government says everyone should have the right to a car? Would you want to be forced to by cable or satillite (we have been essentially in the name of a prettier TV picture)? Get real.
Posted by: john | October 1, 2009, 6:57 pm 6:57 pm
ruggierol;Thanks for your comment. I agree totally.
Posted by: john | October 1, 2009, 7:00 pm 7:00 pm
One word sums it all up:
ENTITLEMENT
and that’s our population of democrats and liberal thinking. Very sad.
Posted by: Logan | October 1, 2009, 7:41 pm 7:41 pm
Maybe that’s why they had to light up the Empire State Bldg to celebrate Communist China. So China would continue to loan the U.S. money to finance all the lib feel good ideas that end up causing financial calamity, like everyone should be able to buy a house.
Posted by: pam | October 1, 2009, 8:06 pm 8:06 pm
Texas outlaw
The party of No is irrelevant, the Dems have the majority—if it is sooo great why don’t their members just do it– this bill will break this country–there is a video on the internet where Hillary is saying that the $6million cut Pres. Bush was making several years ago would do great harm to Seniors, well this crowd wants to cut Medicare $500million–what do you think this will do?
The reason the unions are pushing this so hard is because there is a$10 billion gift to unions pension funds in it!!!Why? Because they are underfunded, the bosses are spending their money getting Democrats elected so they can get pay back at our expense!!!
Posted by: ssmith | October 1, 2009, 8:48 pm 8:48 pm
RAISE TAXES.How are you going to raise taxes on people who do not work?Here in east texas most of the obama uninsured sit out on front porch of their gov.funded apartments swatting flies and drinking ripple.
Posted by: paws 7000 | October 1, 2009, 9:20 pm 9:20 pm
When can they get this bill out of Bacus hands and on to the floor? He and Conrad are sure making a mess of this thing and dragging the dems down with him.
Posted by: Chuck | October 1, 2009, 9:25 pm 9:25 pm
Under the health care bill being considered in the Senate Finance Committee, Americans who fail to pay a penalty for not buying insurance could be charged up to $25,000 by the Internal Revenue Service or face up to a year in jail, according to congressional analysts.
Thomas Barthold, chief of staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation, told senators that the IRS could take legal action against those who fail to pay the mandate penalty. Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty.
Posted by: bailedout2 | October 1, 2009, 10:55 pm 10:55 pm
We all have to have auto insurance, is that a tax. I don’t recall the Republicans making a fuss over mandating auto insurance. They are all full of it. They just want this bill to fail. They do not care about the American people they care about power and are not going to cross the ones that have given them power. The mega rich insurance companies.
Posted by: texas outlaw | Oct 1, 2009 3:25:36 PM
..NO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE AUTO INSURANCE!!!!WHERE IS IT MANDATED YOU HAVCE TO OWN A CAR? I hate when people compare auto insurance to health insurance.
Posted by: coastlinecascott | October 2, 2009, 4:41 am 4:41 am
How can you even ask such a question-…”will Health Care Bill raise taxes?” Of course it won’t, The Annointed One has, and I quote, said that it (the Bill) “Won’t raise taxes one dime”. He right, it won’t. Let’s try about 2 trillion dollars and riseing before it’s over. Meanwhile over at the Treasury the presses are going in to meltdown from being in overdrive for so long.
Posted by: Gunrunner | October 2, 2009, 7:32 am 7:32 am
Texas outlaw, I know you cant possible be in Texas (they are smarter than this)…uh………no, I don’t want to pay for someone else. I have never asked for a handout, and never will! We have welfare for those that have no desire to support themselves if they are legal, and illegals should be sent home where they belong.
Posted by: lyineyes1956 | October 2, 2009, 7:45 am 7:45 am
The U.S. Postal Service is broke, Medicare / Medicaid is broke, Social Security is broke, Veterans Administration is broke, Health and Human Services is broke, Food and Drug Administration is broke and many others.
Now we add another government run program that will also go broke, because it doesn’t have funding WHY?
Washington is out of control with spending money they don’t have. And you people don’t think they will have to raise taxes to pay for this.
What planet are you living on?
Posted by: indymind | October 2, 2009, 8:04 am 8:04 am
I am all for a public option, but fining people for not having health care doesn’t work for me. That just adds a financial burdern to those who can’t afford health care AND the fine. If the government can’t lower the cost of insurance, they are creating a system that discriminates against the poor. Sorry, but the insurance fine provision has got to go.
Posted by: Wayne | October 2, 2009, 8:48 am 8:48 am
thanks for the post
Posted by: John | October 2, 2009, 8:54 am 8:54 am
sammy–”At least the Dems are willing to back there words with written law that everyone can see”–
If thats true, then why did teh Dems defeat the Republican ammendment that would force the bill to be posted for 72 hours on the internet so everyone could read it prior to a vote? — could it be that all the Obams talk about transparency is just another lie?
Now reid wants to “ram it” through congress WITH a public option that is not supported by the majority of americans. This isn’t democracy in action, its a power grab..
Posted by: arkie vet | October 2, 2009, 9:37 am 9:37 am
Texas Outlaw — The simple fact that auto insurance is a state mandate and not a federal one makes the argument that the federal government should NOT be involved in healthcare. You should think about what you are saying before you tout the Federal Government party line. BTW: WE ARE BROKE AND THIS IS MOST LIKELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND SHOULD BE LEFT UP TO THE STATES.
Posted by: Korg2001 | October 2, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am
I just hope will be the last of
the Health. They really worked on it.
I enjoy watch it and it was interesting.
Suzette Jago
Posted by: Suzette Jago | October 2, 2009, 11:27 am 11:27 am
Yes,Taxes will have to go up,Where else will they get the money from? Taking money from Medicare will not be enough,and the Waste ,Fraud,and abuse savings will not happen. Just look at all the wasteful spending spent on Barry’s trip with Michelle to Copenhagen. Congressional Travel is up 50% over last year,and you thought you were not paying for all these vacations for the politicians and their aides.
Posted by: marion | October 2, 2009, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm
we need healthcare reform .there is no control at all on healthcare or dentistry or anything else.healthcare is so expensive if you don’t have insurance you wouldn’t even think of going to a hospital. i guess these people who are writing in are making 100,00a year or more and they have an excellent job that gives health insurance and there is also big business that doesn’t have to worry about anything but getting people riled up and it sure works . congratulations to you guys!!! i can’t even afford to go to a dentist so you better take care of your teeth while your sitting on the top of the world because nothing lasts forever !!!! amen
Posted by: theresam | October 3, 2009, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
Does Obama and congress think the mere passage of a bill, esp. one that creates even more hardship on families will be accepting of the American taxpayers???? What kind of health care reform is this ??????? Use calculator at http://www.kff.org to see what it will cost you. Average middle class and higher get royally shafted. Most people are having a hard time getting by as is and then for health premiums to be raised to this amount is absurd. My cost would more than double what I currently pay. Where the he$$ are we suppose to get the money to pay for this???? Congress and the Prez have surely screwed this nation if this passes. OMG, 2010 elections can’t come soon enough.
Posted by: bailedout | October 4, 2009, 1:53 am 1:53 am
Has anyine thought about the cost of both of Obama junkets this year? The cost of going to Colorado for signing a bill drafted and printed in Washington was $6.9mm, the recent embarassment of a trip to try to secure the Olympics for Chicago and his buds cost a little more than $5.4mm in total. When added together and divided by the estimated cost of an insurance policy for a family of four and you get a total of 14,000 families for whom healthcare cannot be provided….Thanks Mr Prez.
Posted by: abetterway | October 4, 2009, 8:33 am 8:33 am
Obama and his people don’t understand healthcare, none of those idiots have worked in the business. Will it cost yes will it save us money, only a fool would believe that.
Posted by: watch dog | March 22, 2010, 9:09 pm 9:09 pm
You know this healthcare bill could help me and my wife, but I still don’t think it is right, freedom is much more important to us who value it, I don’t Obummer does.
Posted by: watch dog | March 22, 2010, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm