Everybody Wins? Little incentive for compromise, as both sides celebrate health care vote

The current administration can’t handle a simple flu shot and now they want to handle my ENTIRE HEALTH CARE? Didn’t you hear us at the town hall meetings this summer? We dont want this !

scott h
They aren’t trying to handle your entire healtcare, Scott. They are trying to keep you covered if you lose or change jobs, (or start up your own business), trying to make sure your kids are covered (the bill requires insurance companies to cover young adults on their parent’s insurance up to age 27.) My nephew lost his insurance when his company dropped its coverage to save money. He has had a heart conditon since birth. He pays Cobra an arm and a leg to keep his coverage. What world do you live in that the current healthcare system is working? I suppose you don’t know anyone saddled with enormous medical bills, even though they had insurance (I do.) This is not socialism, anymore than fixing highways is socialism. Private insurance agencies will still be in business!

I am saddened that our president has no intention of keeping ANY of his campaign promises as is clearly evident in his endorsement of the House health bill that effectively raise taxes on most Americans.

Pelosi Care:
A defeat of bi-partisanship; a victory for Dem. partisanship
The real loosers: American taxpayers and freedom.

What a bunch of overly impressed with themselves self serving clowns!

Amy in Maine: I agree..they are trying to do something to HELP the public…and I’m angry at Joe Liberman..what a jerk he is…Did you know Ct has the most ins. companies? They are in his pockets, that is why he is so againt public option. If people would only learn to read and listen instead of screaming and hating.

sammy wrote:”Spoken like a true liberal. Clueless”
Typical GOP comeback. Way to dazzle us with your snappy witticism there Ace. The GOP must be scraping the bottom of the barrel for supporters.
Posted by: Torque | Nov 9, 2009 10:00:12 AM
Sorry to bust your bubble “ACE” but i am an independent. I am the one you liberals need to be worried about.

You’ll hear the main stream media report about how to keep your borrowing skills up, your credit score high, you’ll hear about any morsel of left wing success, but you won’t hear a word about Fannie May and Freddy Mac billions in the hole, or the dollar tanking and gold going to record highs. Beware people. There is an agenda here.

keys2truth wrote:”The real loosers: American taxpayers and freedom”
The real “loser” was you when you failed to pay attention in elementary school. Honestly GOP, is this the best you can do??

This will all be fixed in first in the Senate then in 2010 when the elections turn over the insane congress. This one party rule makes bad laws and hurts everyone they are trying to protect.

Jim Rod boasted”The beginning of the end for the dems. The house wil;l be cleaned out”
LOL, better get that rod outta your eye there Jim Bob. the only party that’s gonna get cleaned out is the GOP. We voters have just the right laxative for you.

Lets call this what it is…..”Central Plan Economy”….with “Marxist” overlords trying to control the media information to the masses. Obama is raising taxes on everyone through “Cap and Trade” and this “Health CareLESS Bill”. He dithers on Afghanistan, and lies to the American people. America is MORE dependent on foreign oil than ever before, thanks to Obama pulling oil land leases, and blocking offshore drilling, and NOT a SINGLE nuclear power plant permit has been issued. Gee …. how many campaign promises did Obama break????

Chicago Bob:
Yes, I do know what’s in the bill, and there is nothing in there about people having to work on collective farms, or limit the number of children they have, or denying care to grandmas, or any of the other hysterical, fear mongering misinformation the Republicans are spreading PER USUAL. So, if you have a problem with the bill, kindly argue on the facts, not made up lies.

Rick McDaniel wrote:”Real reform, is National Health Care, but the special interests made sure that wasn’t on the table”
You nailed it Mr. McDaniels, well said.

Amy in Maine – Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution lists the powers granted to the federal government. The tenth amendment states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Where in these powers is the federal government given the power to fund/provide healthcare? The two sections I reference would indicate that the states have the power in the matter of healthcare not the federal government. The only way the federal government could gain the power would be to amend the Constitution in accordance with the provisions of Article 5.

I think the socialist democrats won’t be happy until we are a WELFARE NATION where everyone is jacked into the Matrix nourishing themselves on the teet of the US government.
The bigger the government the smaller our freedoms and liberty.
We need health care reform but it seems to me that this isn’t actually about health care reform anymore…it’s about “our side” winning…and, in that case, we the people lose.
I’m independent but can one of you Dems answer me this? What ever happened to “ASK NOT what your country can do for you BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO for your country?

Yes, I do know what’s in the bill
LOL,,, Damn near 2000 pages and you KNOW what’s in it……
Perhaps you can also tell me the next powerball numbers too !!!

I applaud the fact that passage of a reform means almost all Americans will have health coverage, that people won’t be denied coverage due to previous conditions, and that, perhaps, most of America’s bankruptcies won’t be due to medical costs as they are now.
But where are the things that will keep MY premiums from eating up more and more of my income? Even if there’s a public option, it will only apply to 2% of the population, so it won’t keep costs down much.
Where’s the tort reform to keep doctor’s from ordering unnecessary tests and running up costs plus the cost of insurance to cover their butts?
Where are the reforms to bring our prescription costs in line with EVERY other nation, who spend only 2/3 or less of what we spend on the same prescriptions?
The teachers in my school system effectively take pay cuts to provide funds to our employer to ensure that retired teachers from our system get good health benefits: current teachers know they’ll be retired some day, and the State Pension does NOT include state-funded health insurance for teachers in Maryland.
But those retiring before me had 100% employer-paid BCBS Traditional. When I retired we had 80% employer-paid BCBS Preferred Provider. Now we have 76% employer-paid BCBS HMO with a more expensive copay/deductible PPO. And my share of my premium costs will be up 13.3% in 2010 and my copays for prescriptions are up 25% to 100%, depending on tier.
My guess is that, in a decade, health insurance will eat up 33% of my pension for what then will be Medicare supplemental and prescription coverage, and may eat up 25% of my Social Security checks if basic Medicare doesn’t simply fade away!
Meanwhile, other countries are reaching or surpassing our quality of care while spending half of what we do on health care.

joejibblets – You will pay either way. The insurance companies only have a profit margin of around 3% which is well documented. If the governemt were to able to be non-profit then that is only a 3% savings which is not a lot of money. Both the governemnt and the insurance companies have similar overhead costs which have to be figured in. I worked a couple of years ago with a contractor who worked on a federal project. When the government calculates their costs they include buildings (office space), utilities, etc. just like any private company as somebody has to pay for these items. They also calculate the amount that they will have to allow for wages while the project is in progress, a few years ago the rate they used was $67 per man hour for direct labor no matter if you needed a janitor or a engineer. Their logic is that they use the average cost which includes all benifits paid and also includes all indirect labor charges (managers). Contray to want many want to believe the government runs very much like any other business and includes the comparable expenses. If the government were to run health care then they would have to charge the users these same expenses along with the cost of their medical care so I don’t see a big ammount of room between the private insurance company and a government run one as 3% is nothing.

The GOP fought Social Security—
Said it was Socialism -
Fought Medicaid and Medicare-
Said it was socialism -
And now their fighting Universal health care-
It seems the only thing the RepubliCants
ever vote for is war funding — And even then its all for the Defense Contractors benefit – They fought against upgrading the Humvees and against additional armor for the troops
–
They are truly the Obstructionist party of no!!!
— GOP —
Got Our Payola

Mike_C
The beauty of a democracy is, if we don’t like the effects of a bill, we can change it. One thing I do know is, if you do nothing, premiums will continue to rise, more people will have their coverage dropped by their employers, more folks will go into bankruptcy due to high medical bills….but the insurance company executives will continue to bank their 23 million dollar yearly bonuses. Guess its up to you, what you think is important.

Next on the dems agenda is how to appoint replacement congressmen and women by passing an election.

Amy in Mainr – Read the Constitution and tell me where the fedreal government is given the power to fund/provide healthcare. It is a simple question and the document I’m asking you to read is not that long.

this kind of stuff will continue to happen. we need a new congress. some of them almost have altimers and the rest just keep dreaming up new ideas to get rich and keep their cooshy jobs.we get a new president often enough how about we get a new “deck of cards” Americans. this “deck ” is clearly marked.

Funny how this is big news but abc plays it down with a few short stories. The dems have chopped their own heads off over this. They will suffer a loss next election

Sandcrab 1613
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
Welfare
welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-bein

Amy in Maine – You need to understand that the word “welfare” has more than one definition. When the Constitution was written it was “the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity”. It was not until the 20th Century that the meaning also came to include “aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.” If you include the second definition then you have changed the Constitution. To change the Constitution to include this meaning of the word is very simple and spelled out in Article 5 , a Constitutional Amendment. So your argument holds no water as it is Unconstitutional nomatter how moral it seems, the rules were put inplace to ensure that the Constitution could be changed as required hence it is a living document as provisions were included in it to allow for changes.

Mapjo1 — This was NEVER about the insurance companies — The Liberals have been slamming the insurance industry because its “convenient” for their agenda — The insurance industry on average made 3.3% profit last year — not the “record” profits Pelosi tells you!! — Government Medicare rejects more claims in this country than ALL PRIVATE INSURANCE COMBINED — Yet they want you to believe that insurance companies are “killing people” — Cant you sheeple look things up for yourselves EVEN ONE TIME????? — You uninformed sheep are whats wrong with this country!!!!!

Obama said he was going to give us change in 2009.
We, the Independents will give Obama real change in 2010 and 2012! Liberal Democrats and Moderate Republicans beware, we are coming back with a vengeance!

Omaha – Don’t lose your cool, relax it is going to be OK. What are you so upset about? A liberal is about to blow his gasket!

If the federal government can fix highways, they can fix healthcare.
If the government can test meat for bacteria, they can test insurance companies for unfair practices.
Posted by: Amy in Maine
Maybe you haven’t noticed the terrible state our highway and bridge system is in. They are utilizing stimulus funds because they have no funds for upkeep. Also, we just had a recall last week for some tainted beef. Yeah, the government will be able to “run” health care too! Focus on health care costs first and then insurance premiums.

Sandcrab, Ifrichar,
From the inaugural address of John Quincy Adams, 1825:
“In unfolding to my countrymen the principles by which I shall be governed in the fulfilment of those duties my first resort will be to that Constitution which I shall swear to the best of my ability to preserve, protect, and defend. That revered instrument enumerates the powers and prescribes the duties of the Executive Magistrate, and in its first words declares the purposes to which these and the whole action of the Government instituted by it should be invariably and sacredly devoted – to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to the people of this Union in their successive generations.”
If providing healthcare is not “promoting the general welfare” of the country, I don’t know what is.

Amy in Maine – How many times do we have to tell you this.
You need to understand that the word “welfare” has more than one definition. When the Constitution was written it was “the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity”. It was not until the 20th Century that the meaning also came to include “aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.” If you include the second definition then you have changed the Constitution. To change the Constitution to include this meaning of the word is very simple and spelled out in Article 5 , a Constitutional Amendment. So your argument holds no water as it is Unconstitutional nomatter how moral it seems, the rules were put inplace to ensure that the Constitution could be changed as required hence it is a living document as provisions were included in it to allow for changes.

Amyinmaine, how can you give 30 million people a benefit and have it same money ? I guess you think you have an account with real money in it called Socail Security. Didn’t gov just say if we did not pass stimulus that unemployment would go over 8%, is that the gov saying a 1.2 trillion program will save money ?

I think the whole issue of Healthcare reform is the debate and battle between the “haves” and “have nots”. Those who have the resources are satisfied the way things are. Those who don’t want more. And then there are those who care for what happens to America. Now, Senator Lieberman has said that his conscience does not allow him to support a public option. However, he is himself a beneficiary of the public option as senate is a public institution. Also, education he received was a public institution. We could go on with this argument. However, my question to Senator Lieberman is: If your consicience won’t allow for a public option, would it allow people to die or be permanently damaged because they don’t have/can’t afford health coverage? Would America be better-off in those situations? So Senator Lieberman, you need to search your consience and then make a decision as to which one has more weight: leaving 46 million people unisured or accepting a public option (which will still be healthcare provided by the private doctors and other providers). Think about it seriously and fast. What if you were one of those unlucky ones who cannot afford healthcare, like many who get educated when they cannot afford education?
I am sure then you will see the wisdom of a public option in most issues that really matter to society including healthcare.

Now that the senate says it has no where to go Polosi and Reid will tell the american people (see we passed a bill and the senate will not pass it) (they do not care about you) watch the arrogant thoughts of Polosi come out. Glad to see she did this in a way. Just stregthend the process of her being kicked out of office. California is broke and she wants to tax them even more.

More rubbish from the bill —– Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of
care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.
— Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in the failure of these plans to remain in effect — basically forcing seniors out of the Medicare plan they chose.

Sandcrab 1613
You don’t make any sense. You asked me where in the constitution Congress has the power to pass healthctre reform and I pointed out out to you. I am not getting it mixed up with welfare in the sense of charity for poor people.
The current system we have is the result of a marketing scheme back in the 1920′s. It is not sancrosant. It doesn’t work. It’s not working for the businesses that are paying higher premiums, for the people who cannot afford insurance, or who are denied due to pre-existing conditions, or who are driven to bankrupcy by uncovered expenses. I know what’s sticking in your craw: that poor people might get covered without paying for it. But, currently, poor people are getting care, in the most expensive way possible: our emergency rooms and calls to paramedics. And WE ARE PAYING FOR IT. NOW.

Three Hoosier “Blue Dogs” voted for this — they will ALL be gone in 2010!!

This bill DOES NOT address health care/insurance using this definition, so stop twisting the constitution to support your particular political ideology.