Nov 21, 2009 11:44am
Fireworks? (So Far) Sedate Senate Health Debate Underway
EmailThe 10-hour debate has begun on Capitol Hill … so far, very few fireworks.
ABC's Vic Ratner is tracking:
The debate is underway in the Senate on health care reform legislation, with the key vote at 8pm. The Democrats need a 60-vote majority to break any Republican attempts at filibustering the legislation.
Unlike the House debate on a Saturday several weeks ago, this one is shaping up to be much more sedate.
Senators signed up in advance for time periods, with Republicans and Democrats alternating hours. Few other senators are on the floor besides those speaking or waiting to speak.
The spectator’s gallery is about half full so far, and there are no signs of demonstrators outside.
Sen. DeMint: GOP Race Could Go Until Convention 
Obama Avoids Questions on Contraception Rule
Sir, please continue in your coverage to explain to readers that we already provide universal health care to anyone who can get to an emergency room. We don’t provide very efficient health services universally but we provide health care to anyone if you are very ill, very poor or very young. It is terribly inefficient if you are poor and in pain and it is very expensive. We already pay the bill.
We pay the bill already in higher taxes and higher insurance premiums and higher costs for medicine and procedures.
To delay or deny universal coverage is a guaranteed tax increase and a guaranteed premium increase for the insured.
If you don’t believe me, pick an ER and drive there tonight. It won’t be pleasant, It will be populated mostly by people of color. There will be crying children. There will be undocumented people. It will hurt like the dickens and be expensive as the devil
Posted by: Emptyk | November 21, 2009, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm
Perhaps a couple dozen Republican Senators saw that recent Bruce Bartlett piece in Forbes about their hypocrisy regarding Medicare D and want to lay low. When the Republican Congress and Whitehouse passed a $1 trillion healthcare boost, Republicans did not offset a single dime of it by raising revenues. EVERY CENT OF THE REPUBLICAN’S $1 TRILLION HEALTH CARE EXPANSION WENT TO THE DEFICIT (Medicare Part D, aka pharmaceutical industry giveaway, aka we need seniors votes in 2004). Not to mention some floor shenannigans that put Pelosi to shame (Delay shutting down C-Span coverage while the 15 minute vote was stretched to 3 hours for arm twisting) and blatant lying on the cost estimates to dodge Congressional limits on spending.
Now the Democrats offer a *smaller* health care reform that REDUCES the deficit and those Senators are suddenly concerned? Who is the fiscally responsible party in REALITY not just hollow rhetoric here? Hint: tax and spend can be fiscally responsible, spend and charge it is not.
Posted by: jhw539 | November 21, 2009, 12:21 pm 12:21 pm
I just read in the Wall St Journal that HSA accounts would be severely limited if not abolished all together in this health care plan. In that case I would not be able to keep my insurance. I thought that was one of the basic pledges of this administration. What’s up with that George?
HSA plans coupled with high deductible insurance are very responsible plans. I am very happy with my current insurance.
Posted by: wow | November 21, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm
HSA plans coupled with high deductible insurance are very responsible plans.
wow | Nov 21, 2009 12:47:53 PM
An HSA REQUIRES that in December you say how much money you will spend on health care. And if you end up not needing that money, then you lose it. Every cent. Again, if you have $3000 on Jan 1st, only see the doctor for one check up that year, on Dec 31 every cent left in the account is forfiet. You paid $3000 for that checkup.
How this results in over use of health care (I have $2000 that I’m loosing if I don’t use it, may as well go get a CAT scan) is very obvious and it is appropriate to look at curtailing them.
I wish George would cover this in more detail. I seriously doubt many, if any, are reliant upon these accounts to harvest a federal subsidy for their health care. (For example, they are NOT the Health Reimbursement Accounts or Health Savings Account advocated by Wholefoods CEO John Macke.)
Posted by: jhw539 | November 21, 2009, 2:21 pm 2:21 pm
@jhw539
I don’t know how your HSA works or where your information comes from or if I should believe anything you say.
But I actually have one. My HSA Bank account for family coverage is like a savings account. I can contribute in 2009 up to $5,950 and 2010 will be $6,150. I can make contributions up to the tax filing deadline. We contribute monthly as needed and funds are rolled over into the following year. It’s a great plan and I don’t want to lose it because of misinformation coming from the left.
There really are good ideas that come from conservatives.
Posted by: wow | November 21, 2009, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm
If you want to know a bunch of crooks are
running this country, look at the
stimulus, the healthcare proposals (and
what looks like legal bribes to get
some people to vote for this crap), the
new buzz about what really happened in
the climate change happenings over the
last ten years after some people hacked
into some computers that they hid alot
of junk that would throw their lame
theories out the window. Our caring
government wants to put us all in a
tax hell for their own self serving
needs. Get out of the way and let
private industry take care of this.
The government has screwed up enough
already. I don’t want these people who
could not run a lemonade stand, take
care of something as important as health
care. They are incompetent, arrogant
or stupid or just a little of all of
the above. These are scary times being
handled by scary people.
Posted by: wis134 | November 21, 2009, 4:45 pm 4:45 pm
Whats Good For The Goose Is Good For The Gander. Congress should be made to accept and have the Same HealthCare as all the rest of America. If Congress won’t accept the deal for themselves. Then It’s No deal for the rest of us! Common Sense please!
Posted by: Palin2012 | November 21, 2009, 6:31 pm 6:31 pm
Ha!
The reason there are no protestors is that the “Tea Party” demonstrations were fake. They were a small group of fake demonstrators whose trips to Washington were paid by big pharmaceutical companies. Ha.
Posted by: Pauls Toutonghi | November 21, 2009, 6:44 pm 6:44 pm
I don’t know how your HSA works or where your information comes from or if I should believe anything you say.
wow | Nov 21, 2009 2:52:23 PM
Sigh. My information came from THE SAME WALLSTREET JOURNAL ARTICLE.
“flex accounts encourage wasteful spending, because an arbitrary “use it or lose it” rule doesn’t allow balances to roll over year to year.”
You DO NOT have a flex account. Period. You roll money over, it’s not a flex.
“The Reid bill changes tax provisions to make HSAs less attractive, but the real threat comes via increased regulation.”
That may be what you have. In which case the tax benefits are indeed being reduced somewhat, but the ‘real threat’ is not in the bill. It is in the Foxnews/WSJ/Republican fear mongering of ‘they’ll steal it with regulation as soon as you look away!’
Seriously. Read the reference you yourself pointed out.
You said:
“HSA accounts would be severely limited if not abolished all together in this health care plan.”
Just not true, not in this bill.
The (WS
Posted by: jhw539 | November 21, 2009, 6:44 pm 6:44 pm
A flexible spending account is NOT an HSA. With a flexible spending account, you lose the money at the end of the year if you don’t spend it. You get the tax break, but you feel obligated to spend the money.
An HSA is coupled with a high deductible health plan. You keep the money you contribute from year to year and all health expenses paid from that account do not incur tax. This plan discourages wasteful spending while the flexible spending account encourages it. If Obama’s health plan really does put HSAs out of business, that is an extremely bad idea.
Posted by: bw | November 21, 2009, 7:26 pm 7:26 pm
“HSA accounts would be severely limited if not abolished all together in this health care plan.”
Reids DOES NOT eliminate HSAs, it just tweaks their tax break. It does eliminate Flexible Spending Accounts for exactly the reason you cite.
(Personally, the only use I’ve found for a FSA is the easily predicted one-year cost hit of getting LASIK eye surgery.)
Posted by: jhw539 | November 21, 2009, 8:29 pm 8:29 pm
The title of the article I am referring to is “The End of HSA’s.” I think that is rather self explanatory.
To aim for credibility one should read the entire article before criticizing. I think there were three attempts made at proving me wrong by either providing false information or half truths.
I would think most people want the truth. Why does anyone think it’s okay to distort the truth just to validate their political agenda.
Posted by: wow | November 22, 2009, 3:06 am 3:06 am
Oh I get it…you must be a politician.
Posted by: Wow | November 22, 2009, 3:12 am 3:12 am
So you think we have universal health care due to ERs? Tell me. Who is going to pay for the supplies, room, and salaries of the personnel who take care of you when you go to the ER without the ability to pay? There is no imaginary “we” paying the bills through higher taxes, ect. as yo allege. Taxes do not pay anything to the hospitals or ERs. Why do you think the ERs are starting to shut their doors?
We need real universal health care, not the imaginary kind we have now if we are to be considered a christian nation. Currently “we”, including the christians in this nation, have more in common with the heathens than we do wtih Christ’s teachings. The Obama plan does nothing to change that and the republicans preferred the status quo.
Posted by: jan | November 22, 2009, 8:12 am 8:12 am
The title of the article I am referring to is “The End of HSA’s.” I think that is rather self explanatory.
wow | Nov 22, 2009 3:06:08 AM
Anyone who cares, google up the article and read the whole thing – beyond the headline.
It contains NO facts or support that the health care bill would end HSA’s, that’s just more of the Foxnews empire Fear Uncertainty and Doubt strategy (regulation is bad and even though there is nothing explicit in this bill we’re sure they’ll come after HSA’s because Democrats hate free choice!!1!!!).
Posted by: jhw539 | November 22, 2009, 8:25 am 8:25 am
HSA are used by the wealthy as a tax dodge. $6,000 a year before taxes, and all interest is tax free. Simply put it is a tax free savings account.
Posted by: Thinking | November 22, 2009, 10:16 am 10:16 am
HSA are used by the wealthy as a tax dodge. $6,000 a year before taxes, and all interest is tax free. Simply put it is a tax free savings account.
******************
Not true…I speak from experience not hypotheticals.
40% of tax filers with HSA’s earn under $60,000 a year. We changed our plan to an HSA so we could afford insurance. Our two oldest children (24 and 21) have their own HSA, high deductible insurance so they can afford insurance. We are responsible and take care of ourselves. We contribute to society, we don’t suck off of it.
In response to jhw539. Demonizing those you don’t agree with doesn’t make your position any more valid ie, the big, bad, Fox empire. We fundamentally disagree on the role of government in our lives. I believe this government is being economically destructive. It seems to be driven by irresponsible ideology.
Posted by: wow | November 22, 2009, 11:55 am 11:55 am
The Democrats are apparently confused about the HSAs. I am self-employed and make less than $40K. I know exactly the maximum my medical expenses will be in a year: $5K, which my insurance’s maximum out of pocket. I put $5K into my HSA. The money in the HSA does NOT disappear at the end of the year. It stays there forever until I spend it. If you can’t reduce medical costs, so be it, but please do not further abuse the middle class with more taxes.
Posted by: Cindy | February 25, 2010, 11:18 pm 11:18 pm