Comments on: Obama, GOP Air Differences Over Jobs, Economy In Thanksgiving Addresses

By: Lone Star Rules

Lone Star Rules — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:31:22 +0000

Carter was brought up because there are comparisons with the Obama administration. The word ‘parallel’ comes immediately to mind.
Obviously, you have it in your head that my use of this comparison does not follow from my claim that y’all need to turn loose blaming Bush.
How’d you put it?
“Last time I checked, that wasn’t your decision to make for people– particularly when you’re reaching back to Carter.”
They are different things. That said, it is not my job to “make the decision for people” any more than it is my job to take you to raise. You might look the logic here and figure it out on your own.
And, once you get the logic part worked out then you can either turn loose this constant battle cry that “Bush done it” or you won’t. It is tired mantra that generally ends with “Bush lied” (about the WMDs)
(::::::::yawn::::::::::)
While you are getting this logic business worked out the fact is even Obama said when the Stimulus Plan was passed that his Presidency is going to be judged by the results of how he handles the economy. He’s right. Feel free to stay stuck on the “Bush-done-it” part. Nothing like some good old love-to-hate (that liar) to give the battle cry some real gusto. The rest of us will keep our eye on the ball and see how it goes.

By: Cara

Cara — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:56:46 +0000

The Right thinks that less taxes and less government spending (translated into intervention) is the best direction for our economy.
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They certainly say they think that ad nauseum– but they vote in Republicans that really never give us less government spending. (See the past 8 years; see defense spending; see Reagan quotes on deficits)
And the bit about the left is an old stereotype. With all due respect, you seem stuck in the 70s.
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Yep.

By: Lone Star Rules

Lone Star Rules — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:07:56 +0000

Helen writes “And the bit about the left is an old stereotype. With all due respect, you seem stuck in the 70s.
_____________________________
The is nothing new going on with the Obama administration. He is a very traditional Democratic – much like that of Jimmy Carter. He has not broken new ground on some higher version of how it works – its a little jazzed up, yes; but there is nothing new under the sun with this President. In fact, I consider it “same song, second verse.”
So if I sound stuck in the 70′s its because – well – I don’t have anything new to work with here. This President remains on track with standard liberalism since before the 70′s. In fact, as I was writing the original entry I kept thinking that it is time to get back to basics with this President and that we have a classic stand off with what, to my mind represents the world views of each: the left thinks its their role to spend the money in the right way; the right thinks that government needs to get out of the way and let the market decide.
And, worse it is even more old school than just this – it goes to an even more basic understanding of how each perceive and expect government to work: the left wants big government, the right doesn’t.
Naturally, there are all kinds of arguments about how Bush spent like a bad dog bandit and drifted from Conservationism’s core principles and, therefore, I am full of it, outdated and wrong. You bet Bush drifted and so did the Republican party and I referenced that in my original post. Bush traded big spending to get things done and, there is no question that Bush got things done. Even when Bush’s popularity was in the toilet he could still go to Congress and get what he wanted. (remember the days of “grid lock” in Washington? Not on Bush’s watch, he took care of business in spite of what the Pelosi’s and Reid’s were saying publicly.) Right or wrong Bush believed that the big deficit he let grow could be overcome as long as the market was fired up – and he knew how to fire up the market.
Oh yeah – one other side note before you tell me all about the trappings of differentiation here – Bush inherited a recession when he originally took office. (We often forget that because – well – he was successful in beating it).
One final note on Bush: Bush is out of office now. We are on Obama’s watch. The time for blaming Bush and “his failed policies” is over.
In the end, this debate (the subject of Jake’s article) is age old and defines the core differences between Liberals and Conservatives. Dress it up with what I consider the trappings of differentiation and all the exceptions, updates and non-stereotypical descriptions you want – but, let’s keep our eye on the ball here. The Left is tax and spend, always has been and, based on the behavior of the Obama administration thus far, remains that way to this very day (and if present trends continue ‘always will be.’)
It all comes down to that basic perception of how each side interpret the Constitution. (so 18th century, don’t you think?)

By: Lone Star Rules

Lone Star Rules — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 02:14:00 +0000

In the end this debate and what comes from it defines the difference between the Left and the Right in this country. (yes there are other differences but this is the very heart of the matter)
The Obama administration has taken the position that the the best course for this economy is to tax and spend. They added a little twist because the economy was still on the verge of collapse so they started a massive spending program coming right out of the starting gate.
The Right thinks that less taxes and less government spending (translated into intervention) is the best direction for our economy.
This is the moment for the two very different, seemingly mutually exclusive positions to come front center and let us see the results.
If the President thinks he can have a jobs summit and the ideas and programs that come from this initiative will create the kind of jobs that are needed to get the economy back on its feet then – well – this is his moment.
It is all about results. If the unemployment continues to rise every month and gets to 11%, 11.5% and higher by mid next year then we know that his version of tax and spend flat did not work. If he comes at us with a second stimulus plan to create jobs then we know again that his version of tax and spend is not going to work and it needs to be stopped right then and there. It is time for this President to accept the consequences of his decisions and his programs.
We saw what Bush did when it came to job creation – he blew the doors off the economy. He had his issues, no question but he was always in hot pursuit to stimulate the economy through less taxes – he may have spent way too much but his concept was never to raise taxes to pay off the debt.
It may make guys like me angry when we see the the 9-11 conspirators brought to New York and give them the protections of our Constitution so they can stand trial as criminals. It may also make us angry when the attorney general gets around the funding issues with ACORN. We also might not like a lot of things that this Administration does but in the end the issue that separates the left from the Right comes down to how to run the economy and the results each produces.

By: mike

mike — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:22:09 +0000

arkievet
Now that I have taken some time to read all of your posts, there is something I think you should know. Your so-called facts are either:
1)Simply not facts – but more likely the parrotted opinion of others.
2)Facts, but originating from an alternate reality that you, and a very few others, can see. (say hi to Glenn Beck for me please)
In either case, it is clear that you have little real knowledge about any of the subjects you are addressing, at least in this universe anyway. True, in a democracy everyone does, and should, have a voice and I am glad that you’ve joined the conversation. For a democracy to be healthy, it is the responsibility of all citizens to insure that they researched the body of work related to a particular subject. Key to this process is having intellectual curiosity, critical thinking, an open-mind, and the patience to formulate logical hypotheses, each with it’s own supporting rationale and evidence, before opening their mouth.
In that spirit, I would like to suggest that you, much like your mentor Sarah Palin, would be wise to turn off the TV, go to the library, and concentrate on practicing this skill. In time, I am hopeful that you will wipe away some of the baseless and illogical tidbits you’ve obviously absorbed from spending too much time watching Fox News (Faux News) and become a good citizen with something to add to our democracy!

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:26:07 +0000

arkievet said: Why don’t you enlighten us on how this economy was left by the Republicans. The mortgage industry (whose collapse caused most of our problems)was Deregulated by Bill Clinton.
I am going to make this easy for you… Congress makes law, not the President. And the fact was that the REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, while slapping Clinton around for apparently not have good “family values” and getting a hummer (I might add that many of these same Family Values priests have sice been caught hiring prostitutes, flying to Argentina, texting under-age interns, and etc to get their hummers), that repealed the Glass-Steagall Act in 1999. And although there were a confluence of factors that led to the 2008 financial meltdown, there was no more important regulation in place to prevent it than the Glass-Steagall Act, which was created as a result of the Great Depression.
Again, both parties, mostly because their allegence to their parties and their investors (read that contributors) are to blame. It just happens that when it comes to matters that benefit corporate interests and the ultra wealthy, the Republicans have more of these kinds of folks as their contributors. As a result, they are pressured and tend to act mostly in the best interests of these powerful contributors.
For example, take a good look at the health care debate going on right now. You would think the Republican Senators & Representatives work for the health insurance industry with their completely illogical, hypocritical and almost child-like reasoning they are forced to use to argue against the proposed policy change in a way that doesn’t cause them to “come out” and admit that they are doing the bidding of the insurance industry. I would find all of this rather comical, if it weren’t so pathetic and deliberately against the interests of working together to “promote the general welfare” of our nation, which by the way is written into the preamble of the Constitution for a good reason.
The Dems have also had their fare share of bone-headed ideas and policies created under similar circumstances. Honestly, I am really getting fed-up with both of them these days…
And Cara A, glad to see someone with critical thinking and facts has joined the conversation. If you read my first post here on T-day, you will find I covered many of the topics you are addressing…

By: The_Mick

The_Mick — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:15:06 +0000

Complaining that Obama did not keep his “promise” of keeping unemployment lower is like a kid throwing a temper tantrum when the baseball game to which dad was going to take him is rained out and he cries, “But you promised!” In both cases, total control over events was not possible.
The GOP “promised” on the steps of the Capitol in a solemn ceremony to balance the budget, etc. and haven’t lived up to any of that except in the years Clinton was President and Newt Gingrich admits Clinton is responsible for fighting to keep revenues high enough to balance the budget. And the things the promised in their “Contract With America” they could have controlled! But, the GOP being the GOP, we don’t hear them mention a single word about that anymore, do we?

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:41:55 +0000

“…how little was in there that any hopes of being measured as bipartisan…”
As opposed to, say, the current house and senate proposals?

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:40:00 +0000

The current legislative proposals concerning tort reform are tge sheerest form of cynical political fraud. California enacted a model reform decades ago. Its effects are a matter of historical record; the congress could enact it tomorrow if it weren’t beholden to the plaintiffs’ bar, as Howard Dean has admitted they are.
How dumb do they think we are?

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:23:08 +0000

It will be cold comfort for the consumer to discover that, under Obamacare, he can purchase a policy “across state lines.” Were he allowed to do so today, he could choose from among the fifty states a policy issued in the state that allowed the most consumer choice, and which imposed the fewest unwanted mandates.
Under Obamacare, he will be unable to purchase any policy that does not conform to mandates dictated by federal entities that do not respnd at all to consumer demand, but which are very responsive to political pressure. Thus, for example, if the podiatrst lobby is strong enough and rich enough, you will be unable to purchase a policy that does not cover podiatry. And you will pay for that coverage, whether you want it or not.
Americans will be ceding–permanently–a large measure of their personal freedom to their government if this bill becomes law.