Tea Service: Energy served in unequal portions, as health care vote approaches
EmailABC News’ Rick Klein reports: Does someone control an army around here? Another day, another public display of disaffection with your government: As the House stands on the verge of approving a sweeping health care reform measure, the biggest show in town has the distinct scent of tea. Thursday’s “House Call” gathering, on the West Front of the Capitol, comes at a critical time in the health care debate — sandwiched between those mixed-bag election results and the first vote by a full congressional chamber on health care. It’s not the kind of event (even if it reaches proportions some organizers are predicting) that’s likely to change many minds. But if you need evidence of where the political energy and excitement has gone, one year since Grant Park, a lunchtime midday rally in Washington isn’t a bad place to start. (Try to imagine the old Obama campaign army pulling off something roughly comparable in as short a time, with as little formal planning — or even with spreadsheets and call lists and marching orders, for that matter.) Telling, particularly in the wake of NY-23: House Republican leaders — including Leader John Boehner, Whip Eric Cantor, Conference Chairman Mike Pence, and Republican Study Committee Chairman Tom Price — plan to speak. (Not that they necessarily what to make of the energy that will be on display Thursday, either.) But the day belongs to Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn. From the release out Thursday: “On the heels of an election arguably reminiscent of 1993′s reaction against HillaryCare, nearly one thousand activists with Patients First–a project of Americans for Prosperity — traveled to Washington on Thursday to say once again, ‘Hands Off Our Health Care!’ Joining other Americans participating in Rep. Michele Bachmann’s ‘House Call on Health Care,’ Patients First activists from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, North Carolina, and Virginia will participate in a rally at the Capitol before visiting their Congressmen to express opposition to the government takeover of our America’s health care system.” A different kind of army, perhaps: “Democratic sources tell me that AARP – easily the most influential seniors lobby – will endorse the health reform legislation put together by Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House Democrats,” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos reports. “A public announcement is expected tomorrow or Friday, in advance of a vote by the full House likely to come on Saturday.” Behind Thursday’s noise: “Rep. Michele Bachmann isn’t going down without a fight,” Eric Roper reports in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. “The Republican lawmaker has been on a media blitz promoting tomorrow’s rally against the Democratic health care proposal on the steps of the Capitol, which she has dubbed ‘The Super Bowl of Freedom.’ Actor Jon Voight and author Mark Levin are expected to attend in addition to Republican House leadership.” “Nothing scares members of Congress more than freedom-loving Americans,” Bachmann, R-Minn., told bloggers and activists Wednesday night, per Politico’s Daniel Libit.”Don’t bring your pitchforks,” Bachmann said, “bring your video cameras.” (Odd timing: “The aide who helped turn Rep. Michele Bachmann into a controversial mainstay of cable news has informed colleagues that she’s quitting — just as the firebrand Republican congresswoman prepares for her biggest media moment yet,” Politico’s Jonathan Allen reports. “Multiple sources have confirmed that Michelle Marston, a veteran Hill aide, is leaving Bachmann’s office.”) How big could this get? “Some conservative groups said they were responding to Ms. Bachmann’s request. In a statement, Tony Pessaro, the founder and chairman of a ‘tea party’ antitax group in Bel Air, Md., said he had filled two buses and was working on a third,” The New York Times’ David M. Herszenhorn reports. It had been a while since Republicans had a good Election Day: “There’s a political rebellion going on in America, and what we saw last night was just a glimpse of it,” Boehner, R-Ohio, told ABC News in a joint interview with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. “Another tea party group in Arkansas said it was encouraging members who could not visit Washington to fax their elected officials at precisely noon Thursday, and they singled out Representative Mike Ross, Democrat of Arkansas, as a target.” McConnell, R-Ky., handicapping health care: “You’ve got a lot of newly elected Democrats — as they had two good years in a row — who are hanging on by their fingernails, and being pushed by the speaker and the majority leader to support legislation that they now know for sure their constituents don’t approve of.” (Watch “Top Line” at noon ET at ABCNews.com for more from Boehner and McConnell, plus a live interview with RNC Chairman Michael Steele.) Interesting counterpoint, from David Plouffe, reacting to Tuesday’s results: “I think there’s some notion out there among some that we can press a button on a computer and turn people out. It doesn’t work that way. None of this is transferable,” Plouffe tells ABC’s Aaron Katersky. Where’s the energy? “It’s not a resurgent right wing that should trouble Obama’s party,” E.J. Dionne Jr., writes in his Washington Post column. “But for the moment, the thrill is gone from politics, and that is very dangerous for the mainstream progressive movement that Obama promised to build.” More pushback — a 12-hour (!) online town hall — “Pelosi Plan Exposed” — organized by GOP leaders and campaign officials.
Pushback to the pushback: Americans United for Change is up with “a rapid response TV ad” that renames the House health care bill: “The Health Insurance Industry Profits Protection Act.” From a spokesman: “With the House vote now expected on Saturday, we’re putting $17k behind this spot to air it heavily on DC area cable (CNN and MSNBC) by the end of Friday so lawmakers are sure to see it.”
Reverberations: “Democrats on Capitol Hill began a nervous debate Wednesday about the course President Obama has set for their party, with some questioning whether they should emphasize job creation over some of the more ambitious items on the president’s agenda,” The Washington Post’s Michael D. Shear and Paul Kane report.
“Moderate and conservative Democrats took a clear signal from Tuesday’s voting, warning that the results prove that independent voters are wary of Obama’s far-reaching proposals and mounting spending, as well as the growing federal debt. Liberal lawmakers, meanwhile, said the party’s shortcoming came in moving too slowly on health-care reform and other items that would satisfy a base becoming disenchanted with the failure to deliver rapid change in government.”
Susan Milligan, in The Boston Globe: “Democratic moderates who will determine the fate of much of President Obama’s domestic agenda heard an early warning from this week’s off-year elections: Congress had better do something about the economy, or sitting lawmakers will lose their jobs in 2010.”
The New York Times’ Carl Hulse: “Democrats still face the political dilemma that has dogged their health care efforts this year and will continue to face tough choices as they take up issues like curbing global warming. Should they concentrate on motivating their core supporters, many of whom appeared to stay away from the polls in New Jersey and Virginia, by taking a more liberal approach, for example by embracing a public health insurance option? Or do they try to write health, energy and fiscal policies that can attract independents, who broke for Republicans in Tuesday’s voting, in order to protect more moderate Democrats in conservative districts where spending and the rising debt are top worries?”
Surely the next election will be national, if this one wasn’t…
David Axelrod, to ABC’s Jake Tapper: “I think that young people were energized by the President about the set of issues and concerns that he ran on. I think they’ll be energized again in 2010. But you know some of it is a personal appeal and we are going to work hard over the next year to make sure that in these national elections that are coming up our voters and particularly young voters are strongly engaged.”
But what if the race in New York wasn’t the only one on the ballot that mattered? “The Democrats’ problems concern direction and mood; the Republicans’ loss in the 23rd showed a weakness of tactics,” Margaret Carlson writes in her Bloomberg News column. “As hard as it may be for the GOP to contain Sarah Palin (R-Facebook), Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and their various allies, it’s a lot harder to deal with a public that’s losing faith in government to improve their lot.”
“For Obama and the Democratic congressional leadership, the off-year results arrived at a moment when their fragile internal coalitions are facing severe tests,” David Broder writes in his column. “:The White House is attempting to stage-manage a crucial vote-counting exercise in both the House and Senate to determine whether Democrats can risk bringing landmark health-care bills to the floor. And within weeks, Obama may precipitate a similar test of support on a new policy toward Afghanistan.”
Not that Democrats take cues from this particular pundit, but still: “Looking ahead, the bad news for Democrats is that the legislation that helped lead to the collapse of support for their party on Tuesday could yet inflict more pain on those foolish enough to support it,” Karl Rove writes in his Wall Street Journal column. “The health-care bill House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants to vote on this week could sink an entire fleet of Democratic boats in 2010.”
Over on the Republican side — behind the celebration, concerns: “The same conservatives who energized the party this year forced out a Republican nominee they considered too moderate; their candidate lost to Democrat Bill Owens,” USA Today’s Kathy Kiely reports. “There was no sign the family feud was ending Wednesday, as Republicans offered sharply different spins on Owens’ victory.”
Adam Nagourney, in The New York Times: “Throughout the day Wednesday, Republicans grappled with the disappointing outcome of a special election for what had been a reliably Republican House seat in upstate New York. That contest became a battleground between the party establishment and a conservative insurgency demanding more ideological purity from candidates.”
Tending the grassroots — particularly the breeds that grow in Florida: “We will not spend money in a contested primary,” Sen. John Cornyn, the chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, told ABC News. “The first lesson is that competitive primaries are generally a good thing.”
Lessons of NY-23: “It was just a disaster waiting to happen so I don’t think it was so much about the Democrat got elected, it was that the Republicans really fumbled the ball and the Democrats fell on it in the end zone,” former Gov. Mike Huckabee, R-Ark., said Wednesday on ABCNews.com’s “Top Line.”
On health care — a Saturday vote: “House leaders said that they were confident of reaching their goal in time for a Saturday debate on the most significant changes to the nation’s health-care system since the creation of Medicare in 1965. They released 42 pages of amendments to the 1,990-page health package unveiled last week, a move that started the clock ticking on their pledge to make the legislation publicly available for 72 hours before lawmakers are asked to pass judgment,” The Washington Post’s Lori Montgomery reports.
“Democrats tacked new provisions onto the legislation late Tuesday, clearing one of the final hurdles for bringing the bill to the floor,” The Wall Street Journal’s Janet Adamy and Martin Vaughan report. “But the changes didn’t resolve sharp differences among Democrats over how the bill handles funding for abortion, with some saying they won’t support the legislation until it addresses their concerns.”
Voting — on Shabbos? “My rabbi said there’s a Talmudic exemption for the public option,” said Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., per The Hill.
Who to watch: “Blue Dog Democrats face a dilemma this weekend: Should they oppose legislation they believe is flawed, or move the bill out of the House in the hopes of it changing in conference?” The Hill’s Jared Allen reports. “Many Blue Dogs are expected to face the grimmest reelection prospects of any Democrats, and the upcoming healthcare vote is giving some significant pause.”
The president’s day: “The president today will make good on his campaign promise to host a White House Tribal Nations Conference. Leaders from 564 federally recognized tribes will come to the Department of the Interior for an all-day forum discussing concerns in the Native American community,” per ABC’s Sunlen Miller.
Canceled for… too MUCH hype? “Earlier today we were surprised to see promotion for a ‘debate’ between former presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton at Radio City Music Hall in February,” ABC’s George Stephanopoulos reports. “But now we are hearing that this event has been cancelled by the former presidents who say they never agreed to a debate, but back to back speeches. Clinton and Bush have done the joint appearance thing before – last spring in Toronto.”
The Kicker:
“We got walloped.” — Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va.
“From my perspective, we won.” — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/
Rick Santorum Sweeps 3 States 
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AARP will endorse Pelosi’s version of the health care bill! Does anyone else sense it’s business as usual?
Posted by: LongT | November 5, 2009, 8:34 am 8:34 am
Why isn’t there more coverage of the Tea Party Express??? They’re drawing crowds of several thousand at each stop. Granted not huge numbers BUT growing.
Posted by: Sandi | November 5, 2009, 8:45 am 8:45 am
quote ‘It’s not the kind of event that’s likely to change many minds.’ Then what will change a congressman’s mind?
Posted by: jeff | November 5, 2009, 8:55 am 8:55 am
longT wrote:”AARP will endorse Pelosi’s version of the health care bill! Does anyone else sense it’s business as usual”
The so called “Health Reform” GOP bill doesn’t do a darn thing for the middle class and uninsured. Of course AARP is going to support what is best for their members, that’s the reason I just joined.
Posted by: Jeni | November 5, 2009, 8:58 am 8:58 am
As a member of AARP, I endorse AARP’s decision. The opponents of Heatlh Care reform are in it for themselves. Check out Center for Responsive Politics. Mitch McConnel is bribed by the health care industry. So is every other opponent. Bear in mind while Bachman is engaging in her antics, real people are dying because they do not have access to health care. (Check out the report by the Harvard University Medical School.)
My only complaint about the current health care reform is that it needs to take place immediately – not in 2013.
Posted by: William Joseph Miller | November 5, 2009, 9:10 am 9:10 am
Nancy Pelosi has subreptilian intellect and a phonetically memorized speech. She is ignoring the will of the American people, they don’t want the Government to take over healthcare. Michelle Bachmann is a Patriot for standing against these Democrat Socialists despots. The Tea Party is here to stay and it will grow and grow in numbers, people are participating and expressing their views, they are exercising the most important right they have, freedom to assemble and express their opposition to another Government disaster. ABC News take notice.
Posted by: wizcat123 | November 5, 2009, 9:11 am 9:11 am
The unfortunate aspect of this tea party nonsense is that is too little and too late. Where we these people during the 2008 campaign? When it mattered most they were nowhere to be found. Now they are just a collection disgusting malcontents seeking attention. Apparently some lawmakers are giving them the attention they crave, but again, it’s too little and too late. America voted for the Democrats and gave away their liberties for a bandwagon full of promises written on the wind.
Posted by: wavygravynet | November 5, 2009, 9:13 am 9:13 am
Of course AARP is going support what is best for its financial survival and not in the best interest of their membership. That’s the reason I just quit.
Posted by: older&wiser | November 5, 2009, 9:19 am 9:19 am
Americans are destructively fickle have a memory of about 8 minutes. Do we not remember that Republicans and their failure of a president destroyed our economy during their watch, engaged in a pointless and expensive war, and allowed Wall Street to run rampant? The simple fact is that we cannot AFFORD to have Republicans in charge again. They are fiscally irresponsble and morally challenged.
Posted by: DaveM | November 5, 2009, 9:23 am 9:23 am
DaveM
Liberals wrecked our economy thru the Bush years by FORCING the banks to give loans to people who could never pay them back.
Left wing groups like ACORN and liberal trial lawyers brought lawsuit after lawsuit against the banks claiming racism (anyone remember that BO was ACORN’s lawyer in 1993)and eventually got the lending standards tossed out. Enter in “affordable housing”. Show me some republican officials crying about the need for affordable housing… The only socialists on capital hill shouting for this was barney frank, chris dodd, chuck schumer, maxine waters, charlie rangel..ALL DEMOCRATS.
Posted by: Dave | November 5, 2009, 9:30 am 9:30 am
DaveM Americans are destructively fickle have a memory of about 8 minutes. Do we not remember that Republicans and their failure of a president destroyed our economy during their watch? 10 months in not 8 minutes and I do recall a lot of help from A Democratic Congress the last two years. Democrats can spin this anyway they want but this IS Obama’s Economy. He has made it worse not better, Afghanistan IS Obama’s War and it has become worse not better, The Debt IS Obama’s and he has made it Higher not lower. We are no longer going to fall for this Blame Bush Blame Republicans BS the LEFT is spinning.
Posted by: nobama12 | November 5, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am
Just in – the GOP health care bill would cover only 3 million uninsured Americans – less than the uninsured in the state of Texas alone. Would leave 52 million uninsured. Lowers premiums “zero to three percent”. Dems bill covers 36 million. The GOP bill would do nothing to help those struggling with health care costs, bankrupty due to medical bills, pre-existing conditions, denial of coverage, etc. Leave it to the GOP to provide a lot of lip service while offering no solutions – except to their big buddies in pharm and insurance. Disgusting!
Posted by: pamp205 | November 5, 2009, 9:34 am 9:34 am
This healthcare bill will be BO”s catastrophe for the next 3 years. He and the rest of his socialist cronies have tried to shove something down our throats that the overwhelming majority DOES NOT WANT! Who would have thought that this type of governing would have some people upset???
These limosuine liberals are so far removed from everyday Americans. They have all made careers out of bashing rich people, and yet they live like sultans.
Wake up people, liberals want to turn us all into serfs with the government in total control, which is EXACTLY what this healhcare scheme is about.
Posted by: Dave | November 5, 2009, 9:36 am 9:36 am
“Of course AARP is going support what is best for its financial survival and not in the best interest of their membership. That’s the reason I just quit.”
That is a sad commentary about special interest groups in America. Unions are the same way anymore… started with good intentions, and now all about the Benjamins.
Posted by: Shane | November 5, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am
Within the next year the Democrats will:
- Pass sweeping healthcare reform a the expense of American taxpayers.
- Pass immigration reform (amnesty) which will include fast trac to citizenship.
- Pass Sen Feinstein’s dream gun control bill.
- Raise taxes on the wealthy which is already being passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices.
- Institute cap and trade, raising prices of gasoline, heating oil, natural gas and since most electricity is generated by coal fired generators, electricity goes up too.
- Cut Medicare expenses to pay for the health care of people who aren’t citizens.
- Send more billions to third world countries who hate us so we can say we provide 70 % of their aid.
- Cancel the annual cost of living increase in Social Security payments like they did for 2010. I noticed that Congress and the President got their raises.
- The nation will go into such debt that even China won’t loan us any more money.
- Have total control of the House of Representatives and the Senate with a Democrat in the White House but they’ll blame Republicans for their failure anyway.
After they do all that they’ll lose control of Congress until all those illegal aliens become citizens and be able to vote them back in again.
Posted by: oonogil | November 5, 2009, 9:42 am 9:42 am
Let me put this in a way that might actually show you how enormous this Health KiLL is. Latest Estimates put the the total cost at 1.2 trillion. Go back to 1776 the year we first declared our Independence, That is 233 years or around 85,045 days. 1.2 trillion would be like spending $14,110,177.00 EVERY DAY since 1776.
Posted by: nobama12 | November 5, 2009, 9:43 am 9:43 am
The tea parties can’t even achieve 1% of the population within a 10 mile radius. The real tea party began more than 4 years ago. republicans have been thrown out of office as fast as the election process will allow. As for Virginia and New Jersey. Virginia has a company based there that lost the 35 billion dollar air force tanker contract after first being awarded it. The ship yards are probably a little dry to. New jersey was upset about property tax and I don’t blame them. Unfortunately now that they have a republican governor their jobs will be turned into dung. Heads they lost, tails they lost.
Posted by: rightbehind | November 5, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am
Speaking of fickle memory…how about fickle analysis from our ‘political pundits’.
Spin yesterday was about how Tuesday’s election was a problem for President Obama’s agenda. While I congratulate the GOP on their wins, only 2 races would have a direct impact on the President’s agenda.
The 2 are congressional races in CA and NY, the winners of both races are the only ones from last Tuesday that would be able to vote in Congress. Democrats won both.
Posted by: New Wave | November 5, 2009, 9:46 am 9:46 am
? This is my first post of the day yet I appear to have already been here… Time I start posting as something new I guess.
Posted by: jhw539 | November 5, 2009, 9:48 am 9:48 am
While we are all busy on one front the communists come and attack us on another. >>>>>>>> More CONFISCATION and I can’t wait until 2010 <<<<<<<<<<
Senate panel approves Democratic climate bill
Posted by: ChicagoBob | November 5, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am
If AARP endorses it, they’re doing it to make a profit. If they don’t endorse it, it is because they represent the opinion of their highly engaged members. Either way, we can spin it to defeat health care reform and maintain the status quo. Since the elderly already have socialized health care, and are very happy with it, it is unlikely such tactics will have much blow back.
Posted by: LongT | November 5, 2009, 9:51 am 9:51 am
rightbehind >>> You are so out of touch. Democrats controlled congress for decades and continue to make a mess out of everything they touch. Chicago Crime ? Beating to death of school kids on the street. Schools might as well be declared war zones. Chicago taxes, we just keep raising them as business leaves the City. Great plan. IL corrution? If we are not the most corrupt we are in compeition for the lead. Olympics? We spent millions and got nothing.. In short Democrats are in for a whopping for their in ability to deliver for decades. Not just this year. Its been decades of LIES cohersion and its just started to BOIL over. The only sad thing is that good democrats will get tossed out as well. The democratic party used to be a great party but now its a sewer of corruption. Hows that congressmen doing in jail after his money in the FREEZER was found? HEY WHO Leaked an active CIA member from the OBAMA WH? WHERE is the investigation and NEWS MEDIA on that?
ETC…ETC… Hows the unemployment doing? GOING to 9.8% I hear. Democrat = FAILURE and Corruption far as I can tell.
Posted by: ChicagoBob | November 5, 2009, 9:56 am 9:56 am
The majority is yelling that we do not want this health care bill. The majority of both houses better listen. The voters will strike them out if this passes. Real America is telling them to stop it now or lose teir job next election. There is a rally at the steps planned tomorrow and Polosi, reid and Obama need to hear it and use hearing aides if need be. We are not kidding. Their careers will end by defeat next election
Posted by: Jim Rod | November 5, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am
Sarah Palin and her husband Todd chose to have their son who has Downs Syndrome. It’s not the American people’s responsibility to pay for his health care through higher health care premiums just because they chose to take on the task of caring for his special needs. Families like the Palins need to understand its their responsibilities and not ours. With that, we need health care public option to be able to have competitive insurance opportunities to choose from, and they, Palins and others, will also be able to choose or opt out. With her book deals, speaking engagements, and other income, she and her husband will be able to afford caring for their children of 5 and their grandchild. Not everyone gets $7 million book deals for one event in their lives. Therefore, we need health care public option for health care reform in this country, and celebrate the victory of passing health care reform with tea at 4 p.m. with biscuits.
Posted by: Elle | November 5, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am
Yes, I quessed someone stole your name yesterday, jhw539I, when “you” taunted me over the success same sex marriage repeal in Maine. Guess you could feel flattered. Someone thinks you have a persona worth stealing!
Posted by: Amy in Maine | November 5, 2009, 10:09 am 10:09 am
Health care reform will provide prevention and wellness programs that have been fought by the insurance industries since the early 70s. There are no profits in prevention wellness programs but huge profits made off American citizens who are highly dependent on being ill, costing Americans more than 10 trillion dollars in 10 years, that’s 9 trillion more than the total cost of this health care reform. We American citizens who do our best to prevent illnesses and go to wellness programs to stay well are tired of paying for these lazy and irresponsible American citizens who make our health care premiums sky rocket into profits for insurance and pharmaceutical companies and firms. It’s irresponsible for these patients to get away with these attrocities while we who have done our best to keep ourselves as healthy as possible, staying out of hospitals, not having unnecessary surgeries, continuing revolving doors into physician offices for habitual health concerns that aren’t real but more mental, and we are being bombarded with high premiums from these codependent patients? WE are tired of not having a public option to choose from and get away from those who are habitual in health care needs. WE care about prevention and wellness programs that will get Americans lean again, build healthy tissue in muscle, get out and ride bicycles when we pass Climate Bill that will provide us with cleaner air to breath, making our hearts and lungs more healthy and hopefully those who are on asthma medications get off them if possible. That will be huge savings in pharmaceutical dollars. Since the beginning of America, Americans have become addicted to alcohol, unnecessary drugs, remedies, and neurotic in running to physicians for every sniffle and ache instead of detoxification programs and behavior learning centers to build healthy choices for our minds, bodies, and souls. We don’t want to feel in this country, instead give a pill for everything to numb our feelings. Prevention and Wellness programs do away with medications that numb but will allow us to be human beings again. Pass Health Care Reform with Public Option for a much more healthy America and its citizens!
Posted by: Elle | November 5, 2009, 10:18 am 10:18 am
I was wondering about jhw539′s sudden change in direction! No matter how wrong I think he or she is! I would rather have the real jhw539 to debate against! And Amy In Maine I am against gay marriage It is just against what I believe, But to tell you the truth it is none of my business and I would not have voted against it, For two reasons 1. I cant tell someone how to live, and 2.I think we have more important issues at hand.
Posted by: batesba74 | November 5, 2009, 10:22 am 10:22 am
An anti-reform article. No wonder that, despite it’s length it doesn’t mention that 70% of Americans polled say they’re in favor of the public option. And no wonder it doesn’t say the public could, at most, affect 2% of Americans.
Personally, I don’t think the health reforms solve the problem. Clearly the private, for-profit, insurance road is unsustainable and will either make America’s economy collapse in another decade by siphoning off 25% of all money earned, or Congress will do something. I hope, by then, the sheep on either side do not bleat on command of their masters.
Posted by: The_Mick | November 5, 2009, 10:29 am 10:29 am
I am for some form of reform of healthcare but just not the 1.2 trillion bill that the Democrats are pushing. Yes we need to make sure ALL American Citizens have access to quality healthcare regardless of financial status or pre-existing conditions. But even you Amy in Maine and JHW539 have to agree there has to be a better solution than 2000 pages of bureaucracy and 1.2 trillion in cost. And why not let Americans read the final version of the bill, not the the version you can read online today but the final text version of the bill where everything is spelled out and not open to interpretation, to tell you the truth the fact they wont post the Final Version on line leads me to believe they are hiding something. And don’t kid yourself it is not about the people! Democrat or Republican they always make sure their interests are looked after.
Posted by: batesba74 | November 5, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am
Elle
What are you saying exactly? That because the Palins didn’t kill their son after learning of his imperfection in the womb they are not entitled to an opinion?
When Sarah said “death panels” she was 100% correct. When there is rationing (which there is in EVERY country with socialize medicine) of health services it leads to those in power deciding who gets care and who doesn’t. This is of course the natural progression of gov’t takeover.
Is the gov’t really going to keep pumping $$$ into a non-productive child with down syndrome or a an elderly person that has passed there time to benefit the economy? Of course not.
Utlimately it leads to washington deciding who lives and who dies, in other words “death panels”.
Posted by: Dave | November 5, 2009, 10:34 am 10:34 am
“My only complaint about the current health care reform is that it needs to take place immediately – not in 2013.”
====
Health CARE reform would be nice, but Congress is not working on that issue. They are working on health INSURANCE reform. Two different things.
Nothing in any of these bills changes how health CARE is provided. All of them are addressing how to increase the number of people with health insurance. More people on health insurance means, hopefully, more people will have financial help paying for health care.
These bills do not impact the total cost of health CARE. These bills are supposed to lower the cost for consumers of health INSURANCE with such things as:
premium assisance from the government,
increased number of people on Medicaid,
‘competition’ lowering the cost of private-insurance.
The total amount of money spent for health insurance is going to go up, way up! The more people having health insurance means total dollars spent will increase.
Total dollars spent for health CARE costs will also rise. The more people who can afford health care will mean more money spent on health care.
This is all about getting more people covered by some type of health insurance…private companies, public option, Medicare, Medicaid.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am
older&wiser | Nov 5, 2009 9:19:37 AM
You said; “Of course AARP is going [to (sic)] support what is best for its financial survival and not in the best interest of their membership. That’s the reason I just quit.”
________________
SO BE IT!!! It would be worthwhile for you to know AARP is a major player in the H/C Insurance business (as a 3rd Party Provider.) Who’s their Client Base… duh.
Now, regardless as to who’s the actual provider, PRIVATE FIRM OR PUBLICLY ADMINISTERED ORGANIZATION – AARP offers their membership, what’s in their best interest. (The AARP is quite powerful and the H/C Insurers don’t push them around.)
If the “Private Option” had the LEVERAGE of the AARP, Health Care Reform could be an Immediate Success for everyone……. except obviously the H/C Insurance Monopoly.
Posted by: bobj72 | November 5, 2009, 10:36 am 10:36 am
Elle
I suggest before you continue on your quest to have the gov’t control our health system, you move to another country where the gov’t does run the health system. I assure you it is not a good thing. I lived in great britain and was horrified of the health system there. In london, the hospitals were dirty, very short of doctors, and there were lines as long as BO’s list of anti-American friends.
AMERICA has the best system in the world. 90% of all life-saving drugs have been produced here. The best medical schools in the world are here. The best hospitals in the world are here. When ever anyone around the world gets sick and they can afford to travel they come here.
Liberals talk about America as if it were rwanda or something. They hate this country and are ALWAYS blaming America for everything.
Posted by: Dave | November 5, 2009, 10:41 am 10:41 am
Someone thinks you have a persona worth stealing!
Amy in Maine | Nov 5, 2009 10:09:09 AM
Which is a reminder that on a board such as this, which does not permit owning a screen name, I should probably start rotating posting names. It’s more of a hassle, but in this type of venue the factual and logical content of the post has to stand alone since the reputation of the name is always suspect.
Posted by: jhw539 | November 5, 2009, 10:42 am 10:42 am
Michele Bachmann is a rising star on the American political scene. It’s great to see the two most interesting political figures in the country today are are both Conservative Republicans, Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin.
Posted by: Ron | November 5, 2009, 10:45 am 10:45 am
Enough with the ‘death panels’ phrase! Folks, it was a foolish comment and does not accurately describe what many people believe happens in insurance, be it private companies, Medicare or Medicaid.
All of them make decisions on type of care, how much care, and how much to pay based on: “Does the expected/possible outcome justify the cost?”
Medicare will deny an expensive care if the care cannot be reasonably expected to extend the person’s life or will only make the person more miserable. Private insurance companies do it also. And the public option will do it as well.
There is NO plan that can provide all care to all patients regardless of cost and benefit obtained.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 10:47 am 10:47 am
jhw539, I was beginning to worry about you? A couple posts over your name made me wonder about schizophrenia!
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 10:53 am 10:53 am
Warner and Webb of VA “You ain’t seen nothin yet”!!
Posted by: squifylin | November 5, 2009, 10:58 am 10:58 am
Where do the wingnuts get the notion that the American people do not want health care reform or a government run option?! That is just not so! Why doesn’t the media call these nuts on their lies?!
Posted by: hank1056 | November 5, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am
hank1056
I know!!! All we get is opinion journalism these days. Reporters have quit even the pretense of digging up facts. It’s like they don’t believe there is such a thing as objective truth, so they let the loudmouths spin away without holding them accountable.
News coverage now is all about personalities, prejudices, high emotion, and histrionics.
I have started getting NPR’s podcasts on my ‘puter. Fresh Air had a pretty series on Healthcare.
Posted by: Amy | November 5, 2009, 11:19 am 11:19 am
hank1056 | Nov 5, 2009 11:01:09 AM
You asked; … “Where do the wingnuts get the notion that the American people do not want health care reform or a government run option?! That is just not so! Why doesn’t the media call these nuts on their lies?!
______________
“hank”, contrary to “common right-wingnut propaganda” the Media is either ‘Highly Influenced by the Hard-Right-Edge or…… They OWN the outlet! (You can check it out for yourself.)
Dallas, TX is a prime example; 2 Newspapers in the metroplex, Dallas/Fort Worth – nearly 5MM population. Both newspapers are unashamedly – Ultra Conservative, to say the least. Safe-to-say this likely exists in most Metro Areas in Texas. Despite this, President Obama “Carried” All of the Metropolitan “Hubs” in the 2008 Election. “There is hope!!!”
Posted by: bobj72 | November 5, 2009, 11:22 am 11:22 am
Not that this is about Health Care but it is important. You want spin how about this Pelosi Said a Democrat had not held the seat in the 23rd in 100 years and Liberals were spouting that war cry all day yesterday. Deflecting attention from the Massive defeats in New Jersey and Virginia. How do you explain the following and this is just what I have found in about 3 minutes of research. Michael McNulty (D) New York 23rd 89-92, Samuel Stratton (D) New York 23rd 83-88, Peter Peyser (D) New York 23rd 73-76 & 79-83. Funny I could have sworn the the 70-80-90′s were not 100 years ago.
Posted by: batesba74 | November 5, 2009, 11:28 am 11:28 am
William Joseph Miller, the reason the bill does not take place until after the next presidential election is because it is a scam. The taxes and penalties against business starts next year but the pub option is put off because Obama and dems know the plan is crap. Ask yourself, why did dems vote down a repub plan of putting house and senate members on the public option as soon as it is put in place. Why does Obama not want to let voters see how great his plan is until after his next run for office? Why don’t dems run to get behind their own product and cancel the evil heatlth insurance company coverage. William, can you tell us what nancy pelosi means when she uses the term “obscene profits” by health insurance companies, my money says you don’t respond to that question with anything at all factual.
Posted by: bob | November 5, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am
You dissenters for health care reform can twist and turn this debate with misinformation all you want. The bottom line is this AARP represents some 40 million people (about the same number of uninsured in our nation) and they are listening to its membership that is saying “we would like to retire but we have no affordable portability options available”. And that has the majority of that 40 million “over the barrel” and it is why they are hanging onto jobs that younger unemployed people could have. Now it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that reform has to happen for the good of the entire nation and the nations “overall future”. But if you aren’t capable of stepping back from all the lies, misinformation and emotional garbage being thrown around by conservative lobbies and look at the bigger picture, then you won’t be able to figure it out.
Posted by: CND FOX | November 5, 2009, 11:45 am 11:45 am
“limosine liberals”? Why do you attack someone for having wealth? How is that any different from attacking McCain for having 8 houses? Your hypocritical stance amazes me.
Ah well, it doesn’t matter. Republicans are in a cycle of eating their own and believing their own echo chamber. It’s fun to watch, actually. They lose a house seat that was republican since GRANT and they say it’s a victory.
Posted by: USMC | November 5, 2009, 11:46 am 11:46 am
“Where do the wingnuts get the notion that the American people do not want health care reform or a government run option?! That is just not so! Why doesn’t the media call these nuts on their lies?!>>>>> WHAT kind of Reform is the BIG deal. I am watching Pelosi who is basically making up junk. Lies lies and more lies. If they could FIX the problems with current health care system FIRST with small bills we could read I would be cheering for the democrats. But this BILL is nothing Garbage lies and made up facts. PELOSI should be fired NOW for her own misdeeds getting her husband and her federal contracts enriching herself with YOUR money. CROOKED LIARS all of em.
Posted by: ChicagoBob | November 5, 2009, 11:49 am 11:49 am
I was a participant in a tea party protests until I heard the rhetoric as if I was at the republican convention. It is all so much manufactured anger that I felt as if these people were trying to establish a cult. There were very few actual facts, and alot of it was very misleading. It was almost as if the insurance companies were in control. I will never participate again. Health care should be for all not just for those who can afford it. Sorry, you lost my support. I just last week turned 50 and joined AARP.
Posted by: Chuck | November 5, 2009, 12:09 pm 12:09 pm
Who are these folks who don’t see how we need health care change? I really want to know.
Are they rich and able to take care of anything that comes their way?
Or did they drink the Repub koolaid?
Posted by: DownriverDem | November 5, 2009, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
downriverdems, we are the people smart enough to understand gov cannot handle whats on it’s plate right now. We are smart enough to know that you cannot add 30 million to the roles of the insured that pay nothing. How do you add so many non payers and have the price go down and service improve ? You say I drink kool aid, if you believe that the same group that spent every single dime of the social security trust fund and just gave us a ten year 12 trillion dollar budget debt projection, we say you can’t make koolaid, let alone drink it. Can you tell us what nancy pelosi’s obscene profit means ? you drink her koolaid because you can’t tell us what health insurance company profits are but you probably think she is right.
Posted by: bob | November 5, 2009, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm
I know the republicans and their supporters are doing, trying whatever they can to win people back to them or stir up some enthusiasm for their pitiful policies and governing, but I don’t know if I want to tie my name to radical behaving groups that show up to these “tea parties”. It is almost like the republicans, Michele Bachman types in particular, are advocating for sucession! Yet they beat their opponents up on Patriotism. How hypocritical. The 6 years that the republicans controlled the white house and congress, they did not care about the other sides input or the American people. The rammed their agenda down everyone’s throat and when they got voted out, they started crying like adolescents. So pitiful, so ridiculous, such grandstanding.
Michele Bachman, what have you REALLY done for your country today?
Posted by: Citizen AJ | November 5, 2009, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm
“Where do the wingnuts get the notion that the American people do not want health care reform or a government run option?! That is just not so! Why doesn’t the media call these nuts on their lies?! ”
=======
Hank1056: Those people you are insulting as ‘wingnuts’ are also Americans. They do not want the type of reform currently presented in the bills under consideration.
Other Americans (hopefully you are one) do want the type of reform currently presented in the bills under consideration.
Therefore, some Americans do want, some Americans do not. Your opinion is NOT shared by ALL Americans.
There, does that help?
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm
My hat is off to Rep. Michele Bachmann for her “tea on the lawn”! I wish my representative had such courage.
Why would the AARP want to endorse a bill that will help crash the dollar? The CBO has warned that the current national debt is not sustainable, yet Pelosi and the AARP would raise the debt!
The debt is forecast to double by 2019 because of Obama’s budgets. Pelosi’s bill is far outside Obama’s guidlines when you add in “doc-fix” and do a realistic estimate.
Given that Obama is high IQ there can be only one reason that he would double the debt, and that reason is probably hidden somewhere in the Bilderberg files.
Posted by: Ed Taylor | November 5, 2009, 12:51 pm 12:51 pm
“Who are these folks who don’t see how we need health care change? I really want to know.
Are they rich and able to take care of anything that comes their way?
Or did they drink the Repub koolaid?”
======
What is so hard to understand that some Americans do not want the health INSURANCE reform as it is presented in the bills now being considered?
Listen up all ranters against all who oppose your own personal opinions: You are NOT the center of the universe. You are NOT the most intelligent human to ever grace the earth.
You have your opinions; others have very valid opinions of their own.
I am all-out FOR health insurance reform. I do not have a problem with a public option. I DO however have many concerns about the bills now being considered.
Can your feeble little minds wrap around that? It’s not ALL insurance reform many intelligent, concerned Americans oppose. It’s the specifics (and/or lack of) in THE bills being considered.
Try, please try hard.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
The people have spoken. The new “mandate” for all Washington politicians is to do the will of the voters if you want to keep your jobs. We don’t care what the party agendae are.
Posted by: mmonroeliveson | November 5, 2009, 12:56 pm 12:56 pm
“The people have spoken. The new “mandate” for all Washington politicians is to do the will of the voters if you want to keep your jobs. We don’t care what the party agendae are. “
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm
I think the Republicans need to rebrand their heading. They should say, “Who is undermining the President?” If you look Presidential address in September (the one that had Joe Wilson calling the President a liar) where Obama said he wanted a bipartisan plan and to dispel the “myths” that were circulating in the media, what has occurred since? The Black Caucus refused to sign the bill if it disallowed illegal immigrants and now Nancy Pelosi is working behind the scenes to change the wording on abortion funding to “appease” moderate Democrats. Do Americans really believe that there won’t be loopholes to allow for both of these?
As much as the media adores the new President, it is your responsibility to point out who is undermining Obama. Does the media really want to make Joe Wilson a hero? Will President Obama sign the bill that isn’t bipartisan or dispel the “myths”? Please remember that we impeached Clinton not because of his infidelities, but because he lied to the American people. Do we really need a repeat?
Posted by: djaymick | November 5, 2009, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm
Kudos to Michelle Bachmann (R- Minnesota)for daring to speak up against Obamacare. She has been maligned and castigated ad infinitum by the true “gentleman” on MSNBC, Keith Olbermann. At least she is added some gist to his ever-burning malevolent fire, by leading this protest. Obamacare will not pass. Not in the House and not in the Senate. It will be dead on arrival.
Posted by: Amanda Moserski | November 5, 2009, 1:03 pm 1:03 pm
Where in the Constitution’s 17 enumerated powers granted to the federal government is the federal government given the power to fund/provide health care for Americans?
Posted by: Sandcrab1613 | November 5, 2009, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm
Everyone needs to stop being a Democrat or a Republican because that’s what your parents voted.
The solution is to vote for real conservatives and not just people who give great speeches. Hold your elected officials responsible and actually criticize them for lying. Whatever side you are on, please get involved and crave intelligent information.
You may want health care reform for all the right reasons but if the U.S. government can’t pay for it, we shouldn’t do it!
Don’t buy into all these lies that over 50 million don’t have insurance either. Many of those don’t by choice (like my own parents), many of them are illegal (and shouldn’t get ANYTHING from taxpayers), and many of them are just between jobs.
I won’t force you to go to church if you don’t force me to pay for your abortions either. Heck, that’s only fair.
So unless you want to get your health care from the U.S. Post Office, you should oppose this monstrosity.
True health care reform is easy – let insurance companies sell across state lines and limit lawsuit awards. Done.
Competition and protection from greedy lawyers will save the best health care system in the world. Don’t forget that anyone can walk into an emergency room and get treatment as it stands.
Hard working Americans already pay over $1,000 per year extra in health care premiums for people who skip out on paying their medical bills, so please forgive me for not wanting to turn the entire system over to a government that is already $40,000 per citizen in debt.
Why don’t you tell my three kids were all of this irresponsibly spent money will come from (Obama’s stash)? When is enough going to be enough already?
Don’t even get me started on “Climate Change”. Everyone with a brain knows that unless China and India sign on (and they won’t), what the U.S. does is irrelevant. But if you want to triple the price of everything, support the bill. It’s your Constitutional right to be delusional.
Please get informed…
Posted by: Jim Gromer | November 5, 2009, 1:25 pm 1:25 pm
Read the bill. The back pages tell you that Abortion, Illeagls and right to medication after a certain age is still in there. This was to be taken out and it is put back in. THEY ARE LIEING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE…
Posted by: Jim Rod | November 5, 2009, 1:31 pm 1:31 pm
Yes DavidM- the public is fickle. Let’s remember more recent history like Pelosi and he band of merry men, Rangel, Franks,DOdd, Waters, Murtha all watching the subprime problem building on their watch and doing nothing.Let’s remember both Dodd and Franks cheerleading for Fannie and Freddie and as late as July 2007, Dodd saying they didn’t need to be regulated. And let’s note all the Dem commitee chairs under ethics violations such as Rangel, Murtha. Dodd got off by the ethcis committee after resding 18000 pages of testimony, when they could read a 1000 page stimulus. And then remember all the unfilled promises of the stimulus. Both parties have had problems but the problem now is the Dems. I remind they have been in charge of Congress for 48 of the last 60 years.
Posted by: jschmidt | November 5, 2009, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm
Bear in mind while Bachman is engaging in her antics, real people are dying because they do not have access to health care. (Check out the report by the Harvard University Medical School.)
My only complaint about the current health care reform is that it needs to take place immediately – not in 2013.
Posted by: William Joseph Miller |
Unfortunately, more will die under Pelosi’s plan as it requires a person be uninsured for six months before being allowed to join a public plan. So for the uninsured person with cancer, who can’t get insurance … you gotta wait six months before the government plan will let you join. Just think how many people will die in that time frame.
The truth is, Pelosi’s plan is not a health care reform bill — and it will only cover about 10 percent more people then currently covered by private insurance. Those numbers are not in dispute … 83 percent of people currently have insurance, the percentage of uninsured has remained steady at about 14 percent for decades and many of those folks are uninsured by choice – for religious reasons or otherwise, they don’t use modern medicine but alternatives, etc. Those folks will be forced to pay a fine under Pelosi’s bill that also aims to regulate everything from vending machines to guns.
This bill is NOT a health care bill … it doesn’t take 2000 pages to expand medicare so that those in need can get coverage. If dems were serious about covering those in need … that’s all it takes – expand medicare and increase funding to free clinics and charitable hospitals. Yet…there’s no mention of that in Pelosi’s bill. Ya gotta wonder why.
Posted by: hey | November 5, 2009, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm
Simply unbelievable that a major US political party would support and sponsor a bunch of angry full-grown children having tantrums. They are angry–so are plenty of the rest of us–but grown ups, unlike these folks, don’t expect and demand that the entire country bow to their anger. There is an adult process to express dissatisfaction. It’s called an election. They lost the last one and, in the two-year-old mindset they inhabit, simply can’t take ‘no’ for an answer. The filthy lies, the overt greed and the disrespectful behavior are over the top and ugly. Even if I agreed with their position–which I can’t because they don’t actually even know their own position beyond being ‘really, really angry about stuff’–their approach is so ridiculous and shameful they lose all credibility. They don’t deserve the media attention they crave any more than a toddler in the grocery deserves attention when screaming and flailing in the aisles.
Posted by: Pongo | November 5, 2009, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
The GOP protesters ought to pace themselves. They have seven more years to “endure” President Obama’s dictatorship.(And by then, we will have peace and prosperity and universal health insurance, so its a win-win for them, they get to hate “the man” and end up with a better life!))
Posted by: Amy in Maine | November 5, 2009, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
Hold on there. AARP a seniors lobbying group? Not for a long time! An insurance company, yes. A seniors group, not hardly. Please refrain from mislabeling AARP. They formally changed their name from the American Association of Retired People about the same time as they switched to becoming a for profit insurance company and renamed themselves as simply AARP.
Posted by: richatorg | November 5, 2009, 1:52 pm 1:52 pm
In reading thru these comments I had to stop with “Michele Bachmann is a patriot.” AH HAHAHAHAHAHA Honey, if Michele Bachman is your choosen spokesman over there you have bigger issues than I ever dreamed of. This woman is a freak and and idiot. Anybody that supports her has to be about the same. If I lived in MINN I’d be embarrassed. You’ve cheapened the word patriot.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 1:53 pm 1:53 pm
“They don’t deserve the media attention they crave any more than a toddler in the grocery deserves attention when screaming and flailing in the aisles.”
======
And you, of course, felt the same way when all those liberals spent 8 years of protesting against GWB. You know, burning his image, storming his car, screaming outside the gates of his ranch. Calling his wife AND mother witches?
Yep, I bet you spoke out about them also.
The truth is: Protesting (peacefully) is a very reasonable way for citizens to express their displeasure with government. Americans have been doing since we became a nation, and we are mere babes compared to other nations.
Notice I said peacefully. What these protestors did was wrong. The crime is called trespassing. If they damaged anything, then the authorities should tack on vandelism as well.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm
I have a problem understanding how any organization can support a bill they have not read and understand its effects on the American people.AARP has a financial interest in that they sell Insurance that will be offered in place of the extended Medicare policies that will end under this bill… I applaud the congressmen and women who will be retiring in 2010 for signing this bill.
Posted by: strikerF | November 5, 2009, 2:00 pm 2:00 pm
As an employee of an inner city hospital, the uninsured are growing so fast that we cannot handle the huge amount of paperwork for charitable cases and program enrollment. This needs addressed now. We are also seeing huge numbers of Seniors who are in the Doughnut hole (which is the medicare part D gap that these folks have to pay out of pocket before their prescriptions are covered every year) who cannot pay for their rx’s and just stop taking and have catastrophic withdrawal symptoms. So for all of those who don’t think we need insurance reform, prove that as long as you have insurance and things are sunny and bright for you, you could care less about your fellow Americans who are desparate for medical care. You are all sooooooooo patriotic I could vomit.
Posted by: Chuck | November 5, 2009, 2:03 pm 2:03 pm
“And you, of course, felt the same way when all those liberals spent 8 years of protesting against GWB. You know, burning his image, storming his car, screaming outside the gates of his ranch. Calling his wife AND mother witches?”…. Yeah, as a matter of fact I got really upset with the ten people that did this.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 2:05 pm 2:05 pm
Sorry, SL, there were a lot more than than that.
Both political parties are quilty of every single bad act that each blames the other for.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm
“So for all of those who don’t think we need insurance reform, prove that as long as you have insurance and things are sunny and bright for you, you could care less about your fellow Americans who are desparate for medical care. You are all sooooooooo patriotic I could vomit. ”
=======
I’m going to keep posting this.
Not everyone who is against the current bills under consideration oppose ALL health insurance reform.
They have problems with portions of some or all of them.
They are Americans who care about America and her citizens. They just happen to disagree with other Americans who are equally concerned.
This is not a them versus us. It’s differing opinions of the right way to accomplish good, decent health insurance for as many as possible.
To everyone on all sides of this issue. Your opinion is not the only opinion; it’s not even the only valid opinion.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm
Mal2 – Remember the other night when we agreed to disagree? :) Well, my turn.
I’m sorry but I so don’t agree with that statement. Yes, both are fussy. But the type of fuss differs greatly and there is a HUGE difference between the two. I had a republican bring this up the other night and even she sees it. The left has never screamed over people at town halls like the right. At rally’s they didn’t yell “kill him, terrorist or sit down boy!” They don’t call themselves “real” Americans. I’ve been called UnAmerican, told I’d go to he$$, I had no morals and values, Commie, socialist, etc. Heck, I can’t remember all I’ve been called.
In fact, if you will go back in your head what is the striking difference on that last election? Left side? Change, positive. Right side? Us against them. Them are all bad. It breeds it.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 2:20 pm 2:20 pm
I got called these things starting a good 5 years ago, and you? lol Just saying – turned up over there during Bush. They’ve been completely demonizing liberals. (Funny, I’m a moderate) The last congressional elections under Bush got ugly with this stuff too.
I won’t say I haven’t used the Christian Taliban line – but I reserve that for big time zealots. I happen to believe in God. lol I might have even invented that one a while ago myself. Those people give Jesus a bad reputation.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm
I can’t figure out what they’re saying to you on this link. Tell me who is being rude and I’ll talk to them for you. lol – HEY PEOPLE – she’s a reasonable moderate (in areas) conservative and please consider degrees in this and that not everybody is far right or left please.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm
How can anyone with a conscience leave the bill for this incompetence to our future generations?
Posted by: rfpzzzz | November 5, 2009, 2:46 pm 2:46 pm
Michelle Bachmann’s “Tea Service” today was a “Reel-to-Reel” movie that was slated to be a “Digital High Definition Disk!”
Along with Ms. Bachmann, some of the more interesting characters were; John Boehner,R-Oh, Shouting, Virginia (“Crazy Lady”) Foxx, R-NC, Joe (“You Lie”) Wilson and “Babbling” Marsha Blackburn, R-TN.
The event displayed to the public, Republican House Members (Congressmen) who presented themselves “with ONLY “Cliff notes”, showing themselves to be inept, lacking ‘Original Thought’ and having a Total INABILITY TO AD-LIB!!!
By any measure the event was a LOSING, MISERABLE BUST!!!
It appeared as though there were more reporters & cameramen there, than there were “Voter Participants.”
Some of the High School “Pep Rally Type Themes” were captured in some of these Un-original quotes; (In addition to some ‘questionable’ “High 5′ing” & “Hollering & Shouting.) “Tear down this bill”(re-doing the Reagan theme; “Tear down this Wall”), “David & Goliath”, “Kill this bill”, “Let Texan’s run Texas”, “America is under attack”, “You guy’s rock!” and “We’re freedom fighters.”
Interesting the only “full media coverage” was C-SPAN III. FOX News didn’t even see the event as NEWSWORTHY!
Posted by: bobj72 | November 5, 2009, 2:52 pm 2:52 pm
“I got called these things starting a good 5 years ago, and you?”
—-
Actually, I got many of those insults in the 60s. Yep, I’m that old. I believed in supporting the troops THEN and not just now that it’s the PC thing to do.
As for the ‘Christian Taliban’: that is demeaning and insulting to all Christians and to Jesus Christ. A Christian could never be like the Taliban. Christ’s teachings forbid it. People can call themselves Christians, but that doesn’t make them a Christian.
This is what I’ve been trying to say. Declaring one person guilty because someone else CLAIMS to be like the first…..is wrong.
It’s bigoted, prejudiced, and just plain wrong.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm
Regardless of what I’ve ever thought of a war? I have ALWAYS supported the troops. So to me to suggest because somebody doesn’t approve of a war they don’t support the troops? It’s like pushing for more of that horrible behavior of what took place in this country during Viet Nam.
I don’t think people that are zealot about some of these things are real Christian’s either. It’s not what I was taught.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 3:06 pm 3:06 pm
BTW Mal – I don’t think it’s demeaning and insulting to “all” Christians. The Taliban wishes to impose their version of religion as the law of the land. And we can watch and see how ugly that gets. Some Christians appear to wish to do the same. Not all, but some. I do think Palin would be of that cloth as well.
Posted by: secondlook | November 5, 2009, 3:12 pm 3:12 pm
“Some Christians appear to wish to do the same. Not all, but some. I do think Palin would be of that cloth as well.”
—
Those people that appear to wish the same cannot be Christian. Christ’s teachings do not allow it.
Christ taught to respect the authorities. He taught that His Kingdom is not of this world. A Christian has no desire to set up a kingdom on this earth.
Again, they are NOT Chrisitans. If you want to call them names, please at least call them something besides Christian.
To say Christian Taliban or Taliban Chrisitans does refer to followers of Jesus Christ. Christian is not the correct term to refer to those who believe in the Judeo God. Heck, even Satan himself believes.
The people you are talking about are hate-filled, egotistical, ignorant maniacs.
As for Palin, please, I’m so tired of hearing about her. Democrats keep saying she is the spokesperson for Republicans. Well, she did a lot of good in Tuesday’s election, didn’t she?
She does not represent mainstream Republicans. She is way out of her league and an embarrassment to herself and all she ‘claims’ to be part of.
Posted by: malcat | November 5, 2009, 3:54 pm 3:54 pm
Has anybody thought deeply about the consequences of another illegal immigrant amnesty? Let’s forget for the moment that suddenly 20 to 30 million people are going to be legalized? That Sanctuary states like California, New Mexico have been financially ridden hard into the ground, because illegal workers and their families are feeding at a gold mine at the taxpayer expense. Let’s not mention that since the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill, those made legal, was able to bring into the United States their extended family members. That although they signed an affidavit to support those, many ended up at the taxpayer’s expense. So let’s ignore the expenditures to educate, free health care treatment and all the rest of hidden costs of subsidizing a large portion of the US population. The fact that the businesses that draw them here, from every corner of the world–PAYS NOTHING TOWARDS THEIR UPKEEP. IT’S FREE GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES FOR PARIAH BUSINESS, BETTER KNOWN AS CORPORATE WELFARE? Every one of the Democratic leadership have used their influence to weaken E-Verify, county police fed program 287 (g) and ICE raids on businesses.
So president Obama bypasses the masses the hard pressed American, who have entreated him–NO BLANKET AMNESTY! No path to citizenship! So the millions already here get a free ride to your pensions, social security, public option health care welfare. Who in the world is going to pay for all these legalized individual, followed by the onslaught of millions more looking for free health care? NOW HERE COMES THE FIRESTORM! Have we taken leave of our senses, to think for one moment that another amnesty which is in the works? That a single layer fence is going to hold back millions upon millions more people will–COME? This will not be small meandering lines of illegal aliens, crossing the border during the hours of darkness? This is going to be an unimaginably rush at a defenseless 9.000 border patrol agents, that is–Expected?–to hold at bay those who reach our border? Not even the National Guard and regular GI’s could stop the wave upon wave? They will sweep in from El-Salvador, Columbia, Guatemala, Peru, Chile and of course Mexico. They will arrive from Canada, Ireland, Poland and Romania by plane clutching a tourist visa.
Every corner of the world will hear the resounding trumpet call of Osama’s AMNESTY. Chinese immigrants with tourist visas will fly into Mexico City and perhaps terrorists smuggled in by M 13 gang members? Not just the poor, but the sick, mentally handicapped along with criminals, absconding from the arm of the law across this planet. NOW THE MOST URGENT QUESTION IS? WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THIS? We are already swallowing the massive funding for Iraq and Afghanistan. We cannot even find jobs for hapless 15 million American workers, who (if true) are joining day-laborers at Home Depot, Walmart, and Lowe’s parking lots? So who is going to house, feed and pay-out–more strained US taxpayer money? Perhaps we should send families of illegal aliens to squat in Sen. Harry Reid’s gated home in Nevada. Send another crowd to live in House Speakers Nancy Pelosi’s grape plantations in Central California. How about Chuck Schumer, HS Chief Janet Napolitano, Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, Gil Cedillo leaving their house key under the mat, for some large family from Indonesia, India to find?
Let’s give them free bus fare to each and every politician with a lousy immigration grading, such as Representative Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) or the whole Sacramento Liberal Marxist assembly, who have sold bona-fide legal Angelino’s into state insolvency? Why not have them live-in at every ACLU office and their communist lawyers so they could feed them. Every pro-illegal immigrant Chamber of Commerce member could open a spare room and settle some family members, until more brothers and sisters could be sponsored and join them. The Catholic Church and other religious groups could welcome them at the church doors and distribute money from the plate? The minority of Evangelicals churches could open up the rectory, accommodating hundreds of cots from the tired and poverty stricken. All the anti-sovereignty lawmakers should have plenty of room in their Virginia mansions, their custom ranches for large numbers of impoverished families. Even the President has that large White structure–could exhibit some kindness to homeless families and FEMA could establish a tent city in the grounds? Any of the House and Senate who compromised illegal immigration enforcement, should announce their address for resettlement of people who just run the gauntlet at the under funded border fence.
Let’s face it these people who call us names such as xenophobes bigots and worse, adding ugly cuss words to their vocabulary should also open their doors to anybody who enters America illegally. Microsoft multi-billionaire Bill Gates and the thousands of businesses that don’t incur a darn cent should bring these family members together in their giant homes. Corporate owners who have colluded with State governors, Mayors, Judges and other lower echelon officials, should participate with a welcome mat. Perhaps American workers should obtain a hard copy list of every unpatriotic American and give illegal matriarch a page of addresses for their extended illegal families? We have San Francisco’s mayor Galvin Newsom and Los Angeles Antonio R.Villaraigosa and all the other–SANCTUARY CITIES AND STATES who have completely ignore federal laws, can also give refuge in their abodes to incorrigible
gang members who have killed without conscience, illiterate drunk laborers who have slaughtered families on our streets, because they could comprehend English warning signs.
Then just picture the traffic chaos in every corner of America, unless you live in an isolated ranch in the Mohave Desert, in California. We think we have road rage now, but give it a few weeks after unfettered AMNESTY. I even have a better idea. Open America’s doors completely? No Ellis Island, Galveston Island. No documents, no inspections. NO NOTHING. Give everybody a bus ticket of their choosing, to where they wish to go? See how long the open border zealots put up with that progressive rush to overpopulation. IF you have changes of heart give a tongue-lashing to your legislators at 202-224-3121 in Washington. Learn the financial services in billions of dollars to foreign nationals at NUMBERSUSA,. Hidden corruption that has finally been uncovered, at JUDICIAL WATCH? What the US Census has to say about the POPULATION GROWTH in the future of our children at CAPSWEB? Our population will escalate from 255 million to 383 million by the year to 2050? The next 100 million will suffocate our ability to maintain water, energy, food, communication, infrastructure and a balanced environment.
Posted by: Brittancus | November 5, 2009, 10:00 pm 10:00 pm