Obama’s Afghanistan Strategy To Include “Benchmarks” and “Off-Ramps,” Announcement Next Week

Fence Sitter in Chief. The preliminary
reports look like he is going to make
a non-decision, decision. What a weasel.

This is a momentous decision that should never be rushed. The president was wise to take his time in the face of outrageous media behavior and impatience for a decision.

The nation is used to a President that makes hasty decisions and cleans up the mess later. It’s a relief to finally have a President that spends the time necessary to gather information and make an informed decision.

about time

Geez 100,000 can anyone say, You forgot to read the article.
The number is 34,000 American troops and Natal will send an additional 5,000 to 10,000 troops.
Where did you get the 100,000? From your La La Land of Republican Lies?
And as far as the money goes, We are not sending our children, our husbands, our wifes, our parents to die without a fighting chance. We are not pulling a Rumsfeld and cheney where our soldiers were sent without the equiptment they needed to survive. Remember?

its hilarious to see the neo-cons on here (so suitably lacking of any credibility)…complain that this POTUS has taken the time to get the decison right, when their two guys, Cheney and Bush, took 2.5 years and 2034 lives to finally make a change in strategy in Iraq…remember those infamous words of “stay the course” that you all were spouting off on….? thought I might remind you of some facts…your welcome.

It might take a newbie three months, but Obama’s taking that long is proof of his incompetence.

If only he would have taken this much time and put this much thought into healthcare reform – we might have actually come up with a bill that made sense and solved the problems.

He’s waiting for the Wednesday poll numbers to come out before he makes a decision on Copenhagen and Afghanistan. Didn’t you know that all his decisions are based on biased liberal poll numbers?

Whyyyyyyyyy next week, we have 3 more years…

Indithinker and Angie: RIGHT ON! I LOVE the way some of these people complained constantly from day 1 about Pres. Obama. Guess it was ok for us to go into Iraq and have a war and a falling ecomony for eight years…Where were these people then? Now they don’t even give this president a chance. Do they understand that Bush/Cheney did all this and Pres. Obama has to fix it?

So a total of 35,000 American and 5,000ish NATO troops and benchmarks for them remaining there. I think Bush had 16 benchmarks to measure in Iraq. McChrystal said he wanted 40,000 so Obama has to try and make his idea sound differetn than McChrystal’s or he will definitely look like he was stalling. Read McChrystal’s assessment and recommendations and they will be almost lock step with “Obama’s Plan”. Maybe he needs a “Foreign Policy Czar” to help Gates out!

If only he would have taken this much time and put this much thought into healthcare reform – we might have actually come up with a bill that made sense and solved the problems.
Katrina | Nov 24, 2009 8:55:36 AM
You have got to be joking. Healthcare was a top debate subject in the 2008 campaigns and has been a top-shelf effort since Obama really kicked it off with the health care summit in March. Or are you one of those hard left ivory tower wonks who think Hillarycare was the right way to do it, the timing was just wrong?
Health care has received more debate, input, and work than any law I’ve seen in my lifetime. The CBO has been working almost full time just on analyzing iterations of health care reforms. Insinuating that it is rushed to anyone who has lived in this country over the last 2 years just doesn’t pass the laugh test.

“”"”Rumsfeld and cheney where our soldiers were sent without the equiptment they needed to survive. Remember?”"”"”"
Posted by: Angie
I was there and you listened to the media too much. We had one issue over there and it was blown so far out of proportion by the media. We were not allowed anywhere without flack jackets and M-16′s with at least 2 extra clips (I kept 4). As new equipment emerged from testing, the media immediately jumped on that and continuously complained we didn’t have the most advanced equipment. It was media BS and you fell for it.

I’d like him to go away.

“”"”"Now they don’t even give this president a chance. “”"”"
Posted by: Barb
After 10 months in office he has had a chance. He said 16 months to be out of Iraq and Afghanistan is “America’s War”. Well, Iraq is logistically impossible and Afghanistan awaits a decision that he said he already made in May. He’s had time and chances for these 2 issues and is running out of credibility.

The latest of the new Afghan strategies, in effect, seems to be an exit without losing much of face.The benchmarks are not going to make much of a difference in making the Afghan government “a credible partner “.All this is a positive for the Taliban,who may now see the light at the end of their own tunnel.

To those who think obama has supported the troops. Why has he ignored the specific requests from their general for so long? The answer is because he is looking for an exit strategy and not a strategy to win. He has to cater to his “anti-war at all costs” base.
The idea that the exit strategy is the first thing he should be considering rather than how to win is a tip off to even the most thick headed where his mind is sitting.

“”then they can deal with cruise missiles rather than our much more compassionate and merciful troops on the ground.”"”"
Posted by: jhw539
You realize Obama and McChrystal have stepped up the less pinpointed aerial attacks and the citizens and politicians are getting upset? You also realize our troops now have more ROE’s before they can actually fight back? Our C-130 gun ships have 3 different layers of authorization to shoot a known terrorist pit. Don’t mistake ROE’s for compassion, our troops would rather fight back than wait for the authorization to do it. Cruise missiles can blow up areas and buildings, but fighter aircraft and guners can pinpoint the bad guys. We rely too much on drones and cruise missiles. Politicians need to let our guys fight without reprisal in the courts.

Reality is Obama has doubled the number of troops in Afghanistan in the last 10 months. That is more re-enforcements than they’ve ever had. More were dispatched just last month. They have been fully supported – more than ever before – while this review and planning has been done.Posted by: jhw539 | Nov 24, 2009
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
Thank you for your expert opinion and insight on the matter, the rest of us must be stupid for listening to the Generals and troops in Afghanistan. I cant believe they are begging for more troops after they already received them. jhw539 you could not be objective about Obama if your life depended on it you have obviously built your entire life around this disaster of a President. To admit this President is failing would be to admit you are as well. Wake up hold this man to the standard you would hold anyone else. If you do that you would see all is not well.

Every single one of the clowns on this board and in the press (Fox mostly) who are running their mouths about “dithering” and “what’s taking so long,” where were YOU the PAST EIGHT YEARS as Bush CUT-AND-RAN from the real fight and IGNORED Afghanistan? Yeah, you were nowhere. You were cheerleading for the cut-and-run strategy so that Bush could send more troops to Iraq.

“”"McChrystal had no assessment of the civilian Afghan leadership, Pakistan situation, social conditions, economic sustainability (critical for stability), etc. Nor should he have – this critical realms are not the General’s job. “”"”
Posted by: jhw539 |
Did you read it? It does give his ideas and insight into civilians, political leadership and sustainability for the people. Wait until the President makes his decision and watch how it closely follows what McChrystal wrote. The exit strategy is BS. It’s like saying if you don’t meet this deadline, we will pull out and we all know that won’t happen. We are either in it to win it or we should come home. maybe Obama is looking for a way out without actually finishing what we started.

“”"where were YOU the PAST EIGHT YEARS”"”
Posted by: Bucket of Cold Water
Becoming an Independent and voting against Bush because of his handling of the wars. Where were you?

Politicians need to let our guys fight without reprisal in the courts.
lfrichar | Nov 24, 2009 9:26:54 AM
What??? Can you cite cases of our troops being subject to reprisal in the courts? (Other than the rare – rarer than in civilian population – case of an actual rapist or murderer being caught in the ranks.) Where is a case of one of our troops in Afghanistan being subject to court action and what did he or she do?

“”"”February 18, 2009 “President Obama ordered his first major deployment of U.S. combat troops Tuesday, authorizing 17,000 additional soldiers and Marines for Afghanistan in what he described as an urgent bid to stabilize a deteriorating and neglected country.”"”"
Posted by: jhw539
It is true he signed off on 17000 troops in Feb, but what is the total truth is that number was dreamt up and sold by McKiernan, Gates and Bush. Obama simply authorized it. The first of those troops Bush wanted (6,000 I believe) mobilized after in February and the 17000 was the next amount to mobolize. WASHINGTON POST”"”"Months ago, the commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, Gen. David D. McKiernan, requested more than 30,000 additional troops this year, and an initial 6,000 arrived last month under orders signed by the Bush administration. But a senior White House official said that no other deployment decisions will be made until the Obama administration completes a strategic review of the Afghan war in late March.”"”"”

lfrichar, sorry, was it an “MSM” delusion that Rummie answered one of your colleagues questions about “why the he** don’t we have armored humvees?” with what amounted to an arrogant “sit down, shut up, and take your IEDs like a man.” No, it wasn’t. Stop flacking for one of the worst military leaders to have ever helmed our military.

We went to war in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction (remember slam-dunk). I want our president, no matter who, to think and feel the pain that the brave men and women and their families feel. General win wars, diplomats and politics win the peace. I’m afaraid we will never see peace in Afganistan.
Bill Boyd

It is true he signed off on 17000 troops in Feb, but what is the total truth is that number was dreamt up and sold by McKiernan, Gates and Bush.
lfrichar | Nov 24, 2009 9:43:50 AM
Yes… Which completely supports my assertion that Obama has provided full support to the troops in the field. It also provides a good example of the kind of time needed for this sort of mobilization – McKiernan, Gates, and Bush dreamed up the number but nothing happened until Obama signed the order months later.

jhw539 —- I should have said the “fear” of reprisal. My nephew (Marine) returned last Monday from Afghanistan and there is, without any doubt a fear of reprisal in hand to hand combat. This was also experienced under Bush in Iraq.

#2. ALL of our taxes pay for our military machine so we all feel the pain already.
lfrichar | Nov 24, 2009 9:50:14 AM
Not true. The Iraq and Afghan wars were not paid for, they went on the national debt. Same is true for the Republican’s trillion dollar 2003 Medicare part D giveaway – not a cent in new taxes, it all went on the debt. Actually, during the Republican Congress and Whitehouse spending went UP while they actually REDUCED taxes. Taxes are now at the lowest point for almost a century.
We only feel the pain when Democrats are in power since they typically raise taxes (and take the political heat for doing so) to pay for spending, rather than putting it all on the national debt. (Democrats want to set up sustainable government programs while Republicans have pursued a ‘starve the beast’ strategy since Reagan and grossly inflated the national debt.)

Climategate: ‘Greatest scandal in modern science’…
Call for Congressional investigation…
Paper: Junk science exposed among climate-change believers…
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Can anyone say…” massive class action lawsuits?”.. Albert Gore and the MSN are looking to their lawyers now,for advice

Can anyone say…” massive class action lawsuits?”
mickey maoist | Nov 24, 2009 9:57:11 AM
Do it. Put up or shut up. Take your ‘case’ to the courts, where you have to actually prove something, and let us know how it goes.

jhw539: “Quote or citations we can verify please. Forgive me for just assuming that you are making up this begging, but you appear to be seriously pushing the astonishing lie that our forces in Afghanistan have not doubled in the past 10 months. That is an astonishing ignorance of basic reality.)
………………………………………………………………………………
According to the CDI report it was decided in December 2008 (Bush President) The United States plans to send upwards of 20,000 more troops to Afghanistan, with all additional troops needed coming from other NATO countries, What does this mean Your President Obama has had nothing to do with this it was already decided by a president who had the capacity to decide. Please Quote your source that show it was Obama doubling the number of troops.

Jenn “Again, there have been NO SIGNIFICANT ANTI-WAR PROTESTS by the left this year. Cite them by date and crowd size if there are so many.”
here you go…United for Peace and Justice held two anti-war protests marches on 2009…one in DC on March 21st 2009, crowd estimates at 45,000…and one on Wall Street April 4th, 2009, crowd estimates 12,000.
Not sure where you are going with your point…but good to see you agree that the wars were “wrong then ,and wrong now”…pretty big admission from a conservative.

mickey Maoist – “RASMUSSEN:
Obama Poll Drops to New Low: -15
Strongly Approve 27%
Strongly Disapprove 42%
Total Approval 45%
——————————————————————————–
BARONE: Are Democrats exiting the sinking ship?
________________________________________
Took George W. to get to 23% approval before the GOP started jumping ship…would suggest there is a ways to go to reach W’s lows…and see likewise from the Dems…I’m just sayin’

mickey maoist – “WAVE OF DEBT PAYMENTS FACING U.S. GOVERNMENT…”…..
AND whose debt is it that we are paying massive amounts interest on? …these are the bills due from 6 years of a GOP congress epic spemding and 8 years of a WH that did not VETO one single spending bill (fiscal conservative?)….bit embarassing for you to be pointing out the failures of the folks you put in office, but hey, its a free country…do what you like.

mickey maoist – “WAVE OF DEBT PAYMENTS FACING U.S. GOVERNMENT…”…..
______________________________________
Interesting…if you go look at the break down of the interest on that debt, you know where the vast majority(82%) of it comes from? – govt spending in 2002 to 2007 a GOP congress….Ouch, must be painful to draw attention to the prolifigate GOP congress and a WH that never vetoed a single spending bill….the folks YOU presumably put in office….OWN GOAL!! DOH!

“United for Peace and Justice held two anti-war protests marches on 2009…one in DC on March 21st 2009, crowd estimates at 45,000…and one on Wall Street April 4th, 2009, crowd estimates 12,000.”
Wow, two whole protests!!! And NONE in over 7 months despite our soldiers started dying at a record rate in Afghanistan. How odd.

ifrichar …I do not know if anyone pays attention to your inane ramblings or not but ..”a cut and run strategy TO SAVE FACE”…? What are you talking about? The man is facing a decision on a “war tax” when are nation is suffering through 10% plus unemployment. Look at the mess he was handed by those morons Bush and Cheney! And all people like you can do is sit there and make inane criticisms. Perfect example of what is wrong with politics and our nation today!

LTC Martin Wetterauer, commander of 3rd Battalion, 4th Marines, says In places like Delaram in Nimrooz province, the debate over sending more troops to Afghanistan meets reality. Wetterauer says troops equal time.
“Time is an element in this whole equation. The more people that you have on the ground the more things you can do at once. If I had more Marines, then I could have more guys that could be dedicated to training as well as security,” he said.

“”"you claimed there were none….I showed otherwise…what is your point? “”"
Posted by: indithinker
That was weak. Let’s just say Bush had many more protests inhis last year in office than Obama has had in his 10 months so far. If you are trying to give the impression that Obama is criticized as equally as Bush was, you aer not going to win that debate.

Selective reading habits? 6,000 were deployed in February by orders signed by Bush. As Obama came in, they ordered a freeze until Obama could work out a strategy. In May, Obama himself said he had a strategy and then signed off on more troops. In August, Obama said he didn’t have a strategy and would read McChrystals assessment and come up with a strategy. We either had one or we didn’t. IMO, Obama has been all over the map with regards to Afghanistan and Iraq and he has not followed through on the promises he made.
lfrichar | Nov 24, 2009 10:14:35 AM
That’s an interesting time line. Doesn’t line up with any of the reported reality, but interesting read nonetheless. The 6,000 Bush deployed- in response to a request for 30,000 – arrived in theater JANUARY. Obama signed off on more troops in APRIL, not May, although deployment wasn’t completed until the summer (8,000 marines from Camp Lejeune, N.C., a 4,000 strong Army brigade from Fort Lewis, Wash.,and 5,000 Army support troops).
And I’d love a few QUOTES from Obama about him not having a strategy – it has been pretty clear from the campaign that his strategy would be immediate reinforcement (and Obama DOUBLED the numbers from where Bush left them AFTER his final 6,000 troop deployment in January) and then a comprehensive review (hence his ordering the McChrystal assessment, after Gates took the very unusual step of outright firing McKiernan).
I’m not surprise that in your opinion Obama has been all over the place. Your grasp of the facts is all over the place. Bush deployed 6k troops before he left office. Obama deployed 17k MORE reinforcements, bringing the total up to about 36k (angering the hard left, “We need to avoid the slippery slope of military escalation.”) and ordered a comprehensive top to bottom review.
Seems a pretty clear strategy – put in place new commander, provide immediate support to the boots on the ground, and put together a full military and diplomatic strategy (beyond war without end) for the first time in seven years.

“Obama signed off on more troops in APRIL, not May”
Doh – those troops were announced in February, and a few were deployed by March, but the majority of the orders were signed in April.
It is a bit of a pain to determine the best documentation to use on this – press releases versus the signing of deployment orders (which is done by unit, but has better documentation). Either way, Obama’s strategy has been very clear – immediately reinforce (doubled the troops from where Bush left them AFTER the 6k sent in Jan), change leadership team, and then perform a comprehensive review to set long term strategy.

Jenn “That was weak. Let’s just say Bush had many more protests inhis last year in office than Obama has had in his 10 months so far. If you are trying to give the impression that Obama is criticized as equally as Bush was, you aer not going to win that debate.”
________________________________________
First of all there were 3 anti war protests in 2008….secondly, of course there were many more protests over the Bush Term – they were Mr Bush’s wars….he started them, he botched them, and he did not finish them. The American people are fair and understand these points and that this POTUS is now trying to draw these botched wars to a close, successfully as he can. SO AGAIN, what is your point?

jhw539 —- If Obama’s strategy was/is so clear, why is he coming up with a new strategy? My opinion of Obama is not all over the place. I didn’t vote for him because of his complete lack of experience in politics, military experience (especially in time of war), and complete lack of experience on a national level. Example (and I will use his opposition): If you took either McCain’s or Palin’s resume and put it up against Obama’s without knowledge of gender, race or background, based strictly off their resume’s, I wonder who might have won???

It is very simple ifrichar…get the troops home and stop the financial drain that has plagued us for the past eight years in a country that has no intention of ever being subjugated or occupied.

brian — Pot calling the kettle black? GOP didn’t “worship” Bush near as much as Obama supporters worship him in my opinion.

brian —- We’ve had near 100 posts without any name calling eventhough we disagree on some issues. Kind of interesting isn’t it?

The Fact is You liberal trolls would praise Obama for everything and anything– In Your twisted Partisan minds the Democrats do everything right and the Republicans everything wrong– Its time to turn off Obermann, MSNBC, NBC and take a deep breath–And stop believing the spin of the left and hold them accountable for the mess they helped create, You see the world only through the Liberal eyes of the Left. Mo matter what the FACTS tell you! O this just in the Economy is not recovering as quickly as Obama first stated, Yet another report that they have to retract as overstated and inaccurate. Who would have guessed? This guy that is who!

First of all I’m Neither a lib nor a Democrat– I don’t believe Obermann any more than Beck– But the Fact is The RNC propaganda machine has been working overtime to Spin Spin Spin and blame Every problem in the Country on Obama. Bush was left a surplus and left us a catastrophe — Obama was left The Greatest Financial Crisis since the Great Depression and Two Bush unecessary wars for Corporate profit . If Obama dared to give a 6 Billion no bid Contract to a company he worked for( As Cheney did for Halliburton) The GOP whiners would be shrieking like the sirens for Ulysees.

“”"I wonder why we don’t hear from Gen Powell? Wasn’t his “doctrine” to only commit forces in an overwhelming manner?”"”"
Posted by Terry
but we did! The turncoat said for Obama to take all the time he needs. He and gates did an immediate 180 from their previous position on defense. I used to respect Powell (I served under his leadership) and now he has gone so political, he’s fallen into the “depths of politics” and doesn’t reflect on his military experiences to guide him. He has given his political answer to a military question and that’s never good for the military.

this president is a JOKE… the only decisions that he could render quickly was the ‘porkulus’ (stimulus) bill.. no time to wait on THAT one and look where it got us….and health care, ie socialized medicine. But to embrace his hand picked general’s recommendations on Afghanistan, it took almost 3 months. someone please remind me, what made this community agitator/socialist a better presidential candidate than sara palin? i dont see the much touted experience or oratorial power doin much good with foregin affairs so far. can anyone quote any successes???

After the reckless cowboy named Bush has just about wrecked our country, we do have a President that thinks and analyzes. I, for one, find that refreshing. And, if you think I’m one of those Democrats who blindly follow the party line, you’d be wrong: I voted for Bush twice!!! I thought he was decisive and pragmatic and a better candidate than both Gore and Kerry. But, when Bush BLINDLY followed whatever Cheney and the neocons mapped out for him, without any questions, hesitation, concerns, or follow through, I became convinced that Bush simply didn’t have the intellectual gravitas to do the job. He equated stubbornness with leadership and his disdain of anyone with a different opinion simply doomed him. Cheney, in fact, was running the country, and he overstepped his constitutional boundaries of his office. When Bush finally caught on, the damage was already done. Obama now realizes that campaign rhetoric is dangerous, and he’s looking to get out. It will take approximately 2 to 3 years, but I do believe, we will be exiting Afghanistan (or start to) by the end of Obama’s term. Thank god. After 8 fruitless years of war, it will be coming to an end. He wants to do it responsibly, but he wants to get out. Karzai is simply incapable of governing. There’s no hope for him, because he’ll side duck and cover behind his real power base, the Afghan Taliban. What this strategy does is force Karzai into a box of enacting improvements whether he wants to or not. Karzai would lose power or even be the target of an assassination attempt if it weren’t for U.S. troops being on the ground. And, he knows that. At every step and every juncture, if Karzai and his drug-running brother don’t meet U.S. demands, at least in part, Obama will re-assess the situation and stop deployments or pull out altogether. I believe we need to exit ASAP, but that’s probably unrealistic. Remember, Afghanistan has been involved in a civil war for over 50 years. It’s now complicated by the Taliban and Al Queda, but make no mistake, US troops cannot solve this, only Afghans can. Thank god for Obama. If McCain had been in office, we’d be in a COIN-strategy, 20-year commitment in Afghanistan, and on the verge of war with Iran.

Offramps and benchmarks. Sounds like a great plan from our University President in Chief.

He has a “pretty good idea where he wants to go?” He is gambling with American lives, he better be certain where he wants to go.

If only you guys had cared so dang much back when Bush and Cheney left this area to rot. If only they had contemplated benchmarks and off ramps. Maybe we wouldn’t be sitting here with some fizzled out war of no definition. Why don’t many of you just admit it’s another area to dog Obama in and that’s what you’re using it for. It’s not about the troops, etc.

“The American people heard Obama state clearly we would be out of Iraq in 16 months and HE has the strategy to win in Afghanistan. It appears he has put Iraq on a complete back burner and we are waiting for some new strategy on Afghanistan. So much for what he said to gain your vote I guess.”
Posted by: lfrichar
His goal was to get the troops out in that amount of time, but he also said it was subject to change and the time frame could be extended. His ultimate goal was to pull the troops out and we are doing just that!!! As to Afghanistan, my question to you is that what has W and the GOPs done to even remotely evaluate a non-loosing strategy. Obama has been in charge for 10 months… W HAD 84… In case you failed your elementary math, 84 is 8.4 times 10 or 74 more months… I am eager to hear back from you on the specifics of W’s WINNING strategy or even better on GOP’s current winning strategy!!! If your answer is merely “give what the generals are asking for”, then don’t bother to reply because you have no strategy. Just to show you how complicated the issues are, let me ask you a few questions. Have you studied the game theory in college? If so, what are all the possible outcomes of winning this war? Which one is the optimal and why? To start you off… What if we win the battle, what are the possible outcomes if we pull troops out or leave a certain amount of troops there? If the enemy leaders fleet to Pakistan, will we be able to pursue them further in Pakistan? How long is the war sustainable financially without further jeopardizing our economy? How do we pay for the troop surge? These are just an insignificant amount of questions being asked. Sending the troops is the result of a complicated, difficult strategic decision making process. You can’t call the act of sending in the troops a strategy. Just like when you do a FDI, putting final act of investing in your capital is the result of a long, difficult strategic investment planning process.

He is making a wise decision what it took 8 years to screw up maybe we as americans can finally get some justice and really fight the war on terror.

“Let’s be clear – the mess handed to obama is obama’s mess now. Fix it or get out.”
Posted by: Jenny | Nov 24, 2009 11:08:22 AM
Great attitude. You set someone’s house on fire, it’s still burning, but you want a new house tomorrow. It’s easy to make that kind of statement you did. Are you one of those make decisions today and then think about the consequences tomorrow.

“Obama has an ego the size of Calif. Every decision is such a big deal. Just make the decision – I don’t want to see him again on tv. He acts like a spoiled child that constantly needs everyone’s attention.”
Posted by: Kathy | Nov 24, 2009 11:59:17 AM
Don’t worry, the channel you watch, namely Fox, will not carry this. Rather, they will show some dancing contest. So, sending lives in harm’s way is NO BIG DEAL!!! How many people in your life have had to deal with the pain of watching your loved ones heading into harm’s way? Let’s do an experiment… I bet you have an undesirable neighborhood where you live. Now, try to walk through the neighborhood by yourself, even in the daylight. Tell me how you feel, and now image 1000 times more dangerous than that! Got that feeling? Yeah…

There is only one reason for an “off ramp.”
It is for Obama to exit without responsibility.

Posted by: Jemma | Nov 24, 2009 12:41:55 PM
Lets hear it What do you stand for?

ifrichar…what kind of fantasy world do you live in? Your strategy (in your 12:43 post) would condemn us to at least two decades in a country that does not want us to be there in the first place. How many American and Afghani lives will that cost? How many billions of dollars? And all the while the jihadists recruit new followers to their cause by using our “occupying example” as propaganda. You make absolutely no sense. Are you an owner of an industry who is getting richer from this war? This decision the President has to make is about economics and focus on America’s internal problems. Not about a country that refuses to be subjugated or even “changed” for that matter.

Wow!
“Right wingers get to overspend, lie and cheat, smear people, attack people etc. because God blesses them to do it.”
Just wow!. You are very confused and misunderstand the people who you are calling “right wing”. You most likely are attacking conservatives with this nonsense which is so far off the mark it really begs to just be ignored because it is so vile.
Why not ask people what they believe instead of assigning them your most paranoid and evil thoughts. These imagined “right wingers” are really your neighbors, local business owners, co-workers and family.

Eat your turkey with your invited guests well Obama. Families are destroyed because your partying while there kids protect us.
_________________________________
More demonizing of the President – how pathetic.
I hope you demonized Bush and Cheney for leaving Afghanistan to simmer on the back burner for 7 years while the Taliban and al Qaeda regrouped and became stronger.
They, more than the current President, are responsible for the troops being under attack and in danger. They had ‘won’ a war and had the situation ‘under control’, but let it all slip away.
Or is the entire situation just not controllable? Should we get out?

CND FOX ——Afghan Defense Minister Wardak: “”"”Victory is within our grasp# provided that we recommit ourselves based on lessons learned and provided that we fUlfill the requirements needed to make success inevitable… I reject the myth advanced in the media that Afghanistan is a ‘graveyard of empires’ and that the U.S. and NA TO effort is destined to fail. Afghans have never seen you as occupiers, even though this has been the major focus of the enemy’s propaganda campaign. Unlike the Russians, who imposed a government with an alien ideology# you enabled us to write a democratic constitution and choose our own government. Unlike the Russians, who destroyed our country, you came to rebuild. “”"”"
Given that this conflict and country are his to win ~- not mine — Minister Wardak’s assessment was part of my calculus. McChrystal Assessment. Afghan’s have not seen us as occupiers. I believe the Iraq war was more influential to extremists than this war. It appears the Taliban are reaching to Al Qaeda to unite and we can stop that now. Or, we can pull out as you would do.

tierra;
“Anybody who’s had their eyes open has seen it. The Nazi signage, the fear mongering, the hate mongering . .. the smear campaigns . .”
Yeah, we saw this in the Clinton administration too. Using the IRS to harrass private citizens, firing ALL federal prosecutors and replacing them with radical leftist defense attorneys.
Do some research tierra. Hitler used art extensively as part of his propaganda campaign to hoodwink the German people.
Your hip, slick and too cool to be square pres is doing the exact same stuff. “Art”, school indoctrinations of kids from kindergarten on up.
You people are a cult, not a political party. You use violence and propaganda to push your radical kleptomania and racial resentment tactics.
America is tired of all the hate from the left and the lies. Stop blaming everything on Bush too. What is Obama, an absentee president?

“”"”"What does winning look like to you? Specifically?”"”"
Posted by: Jemma
If Afghanistan has ever had a chance finally see some peace, it is now. Yes theses are finacially difficult times but we are there already and adding to our numbers could shift that country into the right direction. Winning is when we can leave there and they have a stable force in place to maintain peace. I am not a fan of nation building, but their people have no trust because they have no way to protect themselves. If we are not willing to go all in and try to change their direction, then we should come home. As for our troop losses, my nephew was one of them last year and every one of them is important. Aside from iraq 1, we have sustained a relatively small number of casualties compared to any war, especially those that have lasted this long. We either go all in or get all out.

tierra | Nov 24, 2009 1:35:39 PM ……………………………………………………………………………………….
Your posts sound familiar to me, Let me think…..I got it whenever anyone says anything you disagree with, or cant argue with, because you don’t have a Brain to lean you break out the classic ” I know you are what am I”, defense or the “I am rubber you are glue” turning something around is not a valid argument…how about a few more facts and not so much opinion.

Ifrichar…there is no “going all in” and getting a good result. Those people who live there are the ONLY ones who can change that. But look at their power groups. Look at their history. Look at their culture and religion. It is simply not a recipe for change or success. And right there is our nation’s biggest mistake. We are the ones who want to define what “success” means. It is up to the Afghanis to determine that – without our interference.

They all stereo type the right or anyone who disagrees with the current administration.
____________________________________
There is no need to ‘stereotype’ – just read the comments here by the right wing. The comment from the fear mongers and haters here speak for themselves.
Just read . ..

Real Clear Politics (RCP) takes the results of the 7 major polling organizations and averages out the results of those polls to give a good overview of public opinion.
RCP Polling Average
Obama approval polls: 50.3% approval rating
Spread: +6.6

lfrichar – Contrary to your belief, I don’t think Obama can do no wrong. He made some mistakes in the past 10 months: Failure to communicate the goal of a comprehensive health care reform; failure to take a bolder step in the economic recovery process; failure in gaining strategic success in dealing with China on issues such as Iran and US currency, etc. No, I am not delusional about Obama, but I believe he tries to think progressively and long term.
“I would put much more emphasis on McChrystals’ assessment, moreso than anyone over here.” – McChrystals’ assessment is an intricate part of the strategy, but his main objective is to haul the resurgence of Taliban. Unless the Afghan people themselves rise up, just like the Sunni did in Iraq (Many credited the troop surge in Iraq alone for the turn around in Iraq, but it is really from within the people themselves and the troop surge boosted confidence. However, the fundamental differences between the different factions in Iraq is still not resolved, this will cause future conflict, mark my word.), no matter how many troops you send in, we will not win. As you mentioned, “I would erradicate illegal crops and work on industries they can create for jobs and a security force and military to sustain their country.” Great goal! But, how? Are we to support them financially? If so, for how long and how do we pay for that? Do you think of it as an investment or aid? Can you find a single private investor who is willing to invest in that country? Eradicating illegal crops is a noble call, what plan do you have to permanently eliminate such crops? Demand of such substances drive the supply side, are we to do something about the demand at the same time? What means do we support the farmers until they are able to stand on their own feet again? You forgot to mention the biggest road blocker, corruption. How do we make sure the support actually reach the ones who desperately need them? What responsibilities does the Afghan government hold? You hold Obama responsible for his decisions, but why didn’t you mention Karzi’s responsibilities?
I am very sure that Obama will send troops. But, I want him to think about other aspects of the strategy because if we don’t, then it’s no different than what we did 7 years ago when we went into Afghanistan with an overwhelming force that drove Taliban into hiding, but without a well thought-out plan, there is a resurgence of Taliban and we are in the situation we are in today. I would prefer not to revisit this issue another 7 years later. Troop resurgence will win the battle, but I want to win the war. Taliban can afford to drag out this war indefinitely if we do not ultimately defeat them, but we can not afford to do that. I do not expect everyone involved in the decision making to have a solution for everything, but I want them to have all the possible issues on their radar screen and have had an opportunity to review many of them. Driving away Taliban is not good enough for me; playing the cat and mouse game between the Afghan-Pakistan boarder is not good enough for me; let the Afghan government hide behind our back and do nothing is not acceptable to me; allowing Pakistan government play their political games and not taking a stand to ensure the safety of their own people is not acceptable to me… while this nation sacrifice its human and capital resources!
In short, sending in troops will win the battle, but very likely will not win the war if we do not consider other aspects of the war! We’ve been down that road already, let’s learn our lessons and do not repeat that again. Accepting this is the first step in finding a sound solution.

There is no need to ‘stereotype’ – just read the comments here by the right wing. The comment from the fear mongers and haters here speak for themselves.
Just read . ..

Some of us remember the ad Bertha Lewis placed for the trolls to help her image and push the administrations agenda.
I’d say our stimulus money was not well spent given the quality of posts from the trolls.
More wasted tax money…

This is to jammies, You said in your post about firing federal prosecutors and putting in liberal ones well if my memory serves,is that not what happened during the bush years where they fired federal prosecutors who did not agree with bushs agenda? Well it would be nice to stop blaming bush for everything but it is hard when most of the troubles that we have in this country is his making. He never cared about the economy except for his rich buddies of course) As a military wife of a active military member he never cared about the military ( he just thought that he could use the countrys military for his private gain) I just to this day do not understand why the republicans whould vote for bush anyway considering he never could run a company, baseball team and whatever else without daddy bush bailing him out everytime. That is ridiculous!!!! He was truly the most annoying president of our time and I come from a republican family.

“”"”We need to be out of there ASAP.”"”
Posted by: CND FOX
As I said before, I would support Obama 100% if the decision is to get out. What i won’t support is a half hearted war effort. We had the war all but won and turned it over to our allies who have never proved they can fix anything, Bush should have known the old saying “if you want something done, do it yourself”. Pulling out now will have its’ consequences, but I see us staying for the fight then leaving. I think Afghanistan will return to its’ past state with a civil war looming.

“”"”"whether one believes that the American military can be a force for humanitarianism. After the last eight years, that’s a hard faith to sustain. “”"”
Posted by: Jemma
I agree, but we relied on our allies to do the clean up role which, when they failed, we took the blame (as we should). This hurt our reputation to the Afghani’s. If we are to see this through, they would understand an overwhelming force is 2 fold. Continue the war effort and protect the civilian population. Only we can gain that trust back and leaving certainly wouldn’t do it.

ifrichar…I too am sorry for your loss. I also appreciate your ability to talk about this subject rationally. I agree with you when you said the country will return to its old ways, no matter how long we stay nor what we do. Only people of a country can make long term changes to their culture. I have always said that Iraq will probably split into 3 entities when we leave. We will probably end up with a “military base” in Kurdistan. Hopefully it will allow us to keep a proper “eye” on Afghanistan from there. In my opinion, that type of “dollar committment” would be well spent.

lfrichar — While lessons learned from Iraq are valuable, we must also realize that Afghanistan is not Iraq. Afghanistan didn’t have the infrastructure, legal system, education system, government agencies like Iraq did. They also do not have the educated force like Iraq had/has. Those are the fundamentals of nation building. These poor conditions also contribute to the difficulties of winning the war. I think that we all want to see success in Afghanistan, which entails stability, sustainable government and defense force in Afghanistan; disruption of Taliban permanently; capture/kill/disrupt Al-Qaeda; our exist strategy; Half hearted effort will not be acceptable and hand this issue to the next president whether in 3 years or 7 years is not acceptable. All of these requirements require time to deliberate, debate, plan and execute. If the president do not consider all other aspects of the Afghan strategy, then he is only in it half hearted, and political motivated, which probably would not require him 2-3 months of consideration. While this strategy may fail as we can not predict the future 100% for many dependents are not constant, we should applaud the process for it displays intelligence, consideration, respect for history and culture, and admission of our own flaws. Just like in the business world, execution is easier compare to planning.

Talking about the War…The US ready did B 52 in Vietnam and Iraq …
What Mr: Obama waoting time too much go other country ask help and help talking about Iran and N Korea….He go to China asking help ..dealing …talking about Iran and N Korea …Please use wrong tool wrong time and wrong person to dealing with…
Yes we can… No we can’t …
Dont make me wrong Im support for US troop 100% …
Please make sure to be done asap open quickly small Business local to local state to other state asap dont let China will take all over 2010…
If He dont done this quickly Im sure 100% never forever cany not fix any problem….
Who care Tilaban …They live every where…Please just saved money help strong DHS …help US more job…
If Tilaban come US get them and kill them that it done deal do like President W Bush .. If you touch Iran you touch Soviet if you touch N Korea , China will touch Taiwan..

Boy I am so happy Im not in the military with this guy at the helm? I cannot believe this man cant make a decision. The people that elected this man should look long and hard at what he is doing to our military in Afganistan and remember when voting the next time. One of this kids could be yours and even though they may not be yours they are someones and believe me those people are suffering w/ no decisions.

I dislike the devastation the US caused in Iraq. We have murdered a huge number of Iraqi civilians. We’ve brought crime and degradation to Iraq which did not exist there before we came. We do not have the right to do that the innocent people of Afghanistan. The US military should be internationally interdicted from invading Afghan homes, and displacing Afghan families as they have in Iraq. 9/11 does not give the US military the right to commit mass murder and genocide in Afghanistan, Iraq or anywhere else. The incredible
crassness of a powerful technologically advanced military such as the US armed forces using dronges to attack shelters full of helpless Afghan villagers, and poor Afghan tribespeople who live in earthen houses,who have to steal fuel to heat food, wwomen and children who because of the murder of Afghan men-
have to beg and forage for food in garbage dumps.
I don t like the totally mindless arrogance of a military which sees only its own financial gain in increasing forces in such a country, while charging the American people a million dollars a year for each unnnecessary troop. There is no way the Afghan people, nor any force in Afghanistan, requires this level of military presence to control, or even to destroy. I just hope this isnt an extermination force, like the US high command sent to Iraq.

Peter King Said: “August 24, 2009 – when Gen. McCrystle asked for more troops……since then 85 troops were killed in Afganistan because there was not enough troops there to protect them.”
=====================================
King, you clearly demonstrated how little you know about what’s going on in Afghanistan with this post.
Since 2003, 4,366 of our troops have died in Iraq, a war that had nothing to do with 9-11. If the true “complete moron”, George W. Bush, had sent 168,000 troops to Afghanistan instead of to Iraq… and if he had not limited the number of troops in Afghanistan to 38,000 for 8 whole years… maybe, we would have all of our troops home by now.
The real “man-child” here was the guy who put our country in a war/country that had nothing to do with 9-11, “took his eye off the ball” (Afghanistan), and diverted 168,000 of our troops to Iraq, and almost $700 Billion of resources to the wrong country.
As a current military member, who has served in the combat zones twice, and knows what we’re doing there (nation building)…I’m glad that we finally have a thinking President who understands how we fix Afghanistan, and not the moron that we had previously leading this nation.