Is Health Care Fight Worth Winning for Obama?
EmailABC News’ Rick Klein reports: The fight is joined — and Howard Dean is in trouble now.
It may not be terrible for President Obama’s political prospects to have the left on the outside looking in on the health.
But the crowd outside is growing — along with the political costs of pressing to pass something huge with a deeply divided base, and dwindling support outside of that base.
(And by the way — Sen. Ben Nelson is not on board yet, and neither is Sen. Bernie Sanders. Can Christmas wait ’til January?)
The president’s calculation: that the current health care bill (or, maybe, just about any health care bill) does enough to be called a success — something to point to and run on in 2010 and 2012.
“Now, if you can tell me that those things are not worth it, then you and I have a very different opinion about what the task is here,” President Obama told ABC’s Charlie Gibson Wednesday.
Worth reading carefully: “If I can say at the end of my first term that, you know what, we are poised to deliver on the promise of health care after the legislation has passed, I think that’ll be important,” the president told Gibson.
“If,” that is, it’s worth it all. Add to this a growing sense that the politics of health care won’t be everything the president hoped they’d be. It sure isn’t right now.
“Congressional Democrats and Obama are headed toward a ‘catastrophic success’ politically if they pass health-care reform in its current legislative form,” Matthew Dowd writes in a Washington Post op-ed. “Democrats pushing so hard for success on health care could find themselves in a situation resembling President Bush’s situation on Iraq. They could topple the statue and win the day, but lose politically over the coming months and years.”
George Will: “Republicans can win in 2009 by stopping the bill, or in 2010 by saying: Unpopular health-care legislation passed because of a 60-40 party-line decision to bring it to a Senate vote. Therefore each incumbent Democrat is responsible for everything in the law.”
It may not even take months or years: “The public is turning against an overhaul of the health-care system, complicating Democrats’ effort to pass a sweeping bill in the Senate,” Janet Adamy writes in The Wall Street Journal, of the new WSJ/NBC poll. “According to the poll, 44% of Americans said it is better to pass no plan at all, compared with 41% of Americans who said it’s better to pass the plan. In early October, 45% of respondents preferred passing a bill, while 39% preferred passing no bill. Uninsured people were among those who have grown less supportive of the plan.”
The president is below 50 in a major poll (he was at 50 in the ABC News/Washington Post poll out earlier this week): “In December’s survey, for the first time, less than half of Americans approved of the job President Barack Obama was doing, marking a steeper first-year fall for this president than his recent predecessors,” the Journal’s Peter Wallsten writes. “Also for the first time this year, the electorate was split when asked which party it wanted to see in charge after the 2010 elections. For months, a clear plurality favored Democratic control.”
Karl Rove wants a re-count on that report card: “Mr. Obama has not governed as the centrist, deficit-fighting, bipartisan consensus builder he promised to be. And his promise to embody a new kind of politics — free of finger-pointing, pettiness and spin — was a mirage. He has cheapened his office with needless attacks on his predecessor.”
The war within continues — with broadsides that could as easily be coming from the left or the right.
Taking aim at a pillar of the promises: “The bill doesn’t actually ‘cover’ 30 million more Americans — instead it makes them criminals if they don’t buy insurance from the same companies that got us into this mess,” Jim Dean writes to his Democracy for America e-mail list, per Greg Sargent of The Plum Line blog.
Howard Dean, in a Washington Post op-ed: “I know health reform when I see it, and there isn’t much left in the Senate bill. I reluctantly conclude that, as it stands, this bill would do more harm than good to the future of America.”
Firing back: “I don’t think any rational person would say killing a bill makes any sense at this point,” White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said Wednesday’s per ABC’s Jake Tapper.
White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer: “Recently, a somewhat perplexing new line of argument has emerged about health insurance reform, with some folks suggesting the Senate bill is a “dream” for insurance companies. If that’s the case, though, it must be news to them.”
Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, on ABC’s “Top Line”: “I agree with Howard on a lot of things, but I think this is too important to walk away from.”
Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va. (!): “It’s nonsense and it’s irresponsible and coming from him as a physician, it’s stunning.”
SEIU weighs in — with a vow to continue the fight for the public option (though not outright opposition to the Senate bill):
“SEIU does not accept that this monumental effort — that this reform that is so necessary to the health and wellbeing of our economy, our families and our future — can be over without a fight,” SEIU President Andy Stern writes. “President Obama must remember his own words from the campaign. His call of ‘Yes We Can’ was not just to us, not just to the millions of people who voted for him, but to himself. We all stood shoulder to shoulder with the President during his hard fought campaign. And, we will continue to stand with him but he must fight for the reform we all know is possible.”
(And look for the AFL/CIO to scramble things further — the executive board met Wednesday on health care, and a statement could come Thursday.)
By the by — nobody has the votes just yet.
“Until I can see more details, I’m not going to know whether I can support the bill,” said Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., per The Wall Street Journal’s Greg Hitt.
“At this point I’m not on board,” said Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., per ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf. (But that’s a much different standard than supporting a GOP filibuster.)
Sen. Roland Burris, D-Ill. (whatever this ultimately means): “There can be no give and take on fundamentals. Any compromise on mere fundamentals is a surrender.”
The man behind all the deals — for better or for worse: “While President Barack Obama has kept his distance from the legislative maneuvering over health care, his chief of staff has been nudging the process at critical points, corralling powerful interests and coaxing members of Congress, said lobbyists, labor leaders, lawmakers and congressional staff,” Bloomberg’s Mike Dorning reports.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood: “All of these machinations and activities that have taken place all year really have been orchestrated by him.”
Not another broken deadline… “Away from the floor, [Senate Majority Leader Harry] Reid (D-Nev.) continued wrangling with the Congressional Budget Office over a cost estimate, which Democrats had initially hoped to receive by Monday,” Politico’s Carrie Budoff Brown writes. “Without the analysis, Reid has been unable to lock down votes for the bill. And Democrats on both ends of the political spectrum remained uncommitted, saying they had problems that needed to be addressed.”
Clock could start Saturday: “Under the most optimistic of scenarios, Democrats would need at least six days to overcome the procedural roadblocks Republicans are expected to raise. However, GOP Senators indicated Wednesday that they are prepared to employ more dilatory tactics in their quest to deny Democrats a win before Christmas,” Roll Call’s Emily Pierce and David M. Drucker report.
It’s another getaway day for President Obama, as he heads to Copenhagen Thursday night for the climate conference.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is a day ahead of him, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., got business wrapped up in time to lead the congressional delegation.
As for what greets them: “China has told participants in the U.N.-sponsored climate talks that it cannot envision reaching an immediate, operational accord out of the negotiations here, according to an official involved in the talks,” Juliet Eilperin writes in The Washington Post. “Chinese officials conveyed the message early Thursday, the official added. It remains unclear what China would be willing to embrace instead of a robust political agreement.”
Politico’s Glenn Thrush: “It’s not clear if remarks by Chinese officials, made during negotiating sessions last night, signal the end of efforts to reach a significant agreement or simply represent an 11th hour bargaining tactic less than a day before Obama was due to arrive in Copenhagen. But U.S. officials fear it’s the former, with little time left to negotiate a real deal before COP 15′s conclusion Friday.”
Raising the stakes? “President Obama leaves for stalemated climate talks in Copenhagen today facing global expectations that he can salvage an agreement on greenhouse gases as well as heavy domestic pressure not to sign a deal that could kill American jobs,” Jim Tankersley writes in the Los Angeles Times. “Failure would undercut hopes for a complete and binding global climate treaty next year; imperil climate legislation in Congress, a top priority for the Democrats; and handicap Obama’s efforts to reshape the world’s view of the United States.”
Clinton’s move: “U.S. Secretary of State of State Hillary Clinton Thursday proposed that major economies including the U.S. come up with $100 billion a year over the next decade for developing nations, in an eleventh-hour effort to break an impasse on climate change talks,” per Dow Jones News Service. “Arriving hours earlier in Copenhagen, Clinton said the plan — which entails significantly higher financial commitments than the U.S. has previously made to developing nations — would involve public and private money.” Read this as the ability to move numbers: “The latest Associated Press-GfK poll shows the president’s marks for handling the eight-year-old war have jumped by double digits — more than half now approve — since he capped a three-month strategy review by announcing a big troop increase,” the AP’s Liz Sidoti reports. “But despite his prime-time TV speech explaining how he reached his decision, there was no change in the public’s resistance to escalation. Just 42 percent favor sending more troops while 56 percent oppose it, essentially unchanged from November.”
Good thing he can move numbers: “The president’s going to have to make his case” on Afghanistan, Speaker Pelosi told reporters Wednesday, per The Washington Post’s Paul Kane.
T-Paw, leading with health care (wonder why?): “Here we are in New Hampshire and now what we see is a monstrosity being jammed down our throats on almost a purely partisan basis and maybe entirely partisan basis,” Gov. Tim Pawlenty, R-Minn., told the Union Leader’s John DiStaso.
The House heads home: “The House on Wednesday narrowly approved a short-term, $290 billion increase in federal borrowing power, setting the stage for a major fight over national fiscal policy in 2010,” per The New York Times’ Carl Hulse. “In what House members hope was their last significant vote of an eventful year, a $174 billion measure intended to create jobs was approved on a surprisingly close party-line vote of 217 to 212. The measure would redirect $75 billion from the Wall Street bailout fund to a variety of construction and employment programs, but no similar measure is expected to be considered in the Senate until next year.”
Bloomberg’s Brian Faler: “While the debt and defense measures are likely to reach President Barack Obama’s desk by Christmas, the jobs plan faces opposition in the Senate, where lawmakers are wary of its effect on the government’s $1.4 trillion budget deficit.” Vice President Joe Biden’s day: “Today, Vice President Biden will travel to Georgia to announce more than $2 billion in Recovery Act grants and loans to bring broadband Internet services to communities that currently do not have it,” ABC’s Karen Travers reports. “The vice president will be in Dawsonville, Ga., to announce an initial investment of $182 million for 18 broadband projects over 17 states.”
The Kicker:
“So much for trying to be incognito.” — Sarah Palin, in a statement to Politico, after TMZ ran photos of her in Hawaii with a McCain campaign sun visor with McCain’s name blacked out.
“Congress is one issue. But he said, ‘I’ll have other things to discuss.’ ” — Dennis Malloy, spokesman for former Rep. Jim Traficant, D-Ohio, who’s mulling a political comeback after seven years in prison.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/
Biden Reflects on Grief, Suicidal Thoughts 
Is Congress Sounding Dumber?
conservatives hate the bill
republicans hate the bill
liberals hate the bill
independants hate the bill
howard dean hates the bill
keith olbermann hates the bill
maddow (maddox) is madd about the bill
prolifers hate the bill
prochoicers will hate the bill if it passes
Wow what great bill!!!
Posted by: jjj | December 17, 2009, 9:10 am 9:10 am
I forgot to mention that insurance companies love the bill!
Posted by: jjj | December 17, 2009, 9:19 am 9:19 am
Oh and also the pharms love the bill too!
Posted by: jjj | December 17, 2009, 9:20 am 9:20 am
jjj were doomed with these morons
Posted by: natale from mass. | December 17, 2009, 9:22 am 9:22 am
The reason the Democrats are paying a price on the health care issue is they are trying to cram it down the peoples throats. The people really don’t want this
so if the administration keep insisting on pushing this dead horse, they will be a one trick pony.
Posted by: hkdakota | December 17, 2009, 9:25 am 9:25 am
If you think the people are in an uproar over health care wait till the cap & trade debate starts. We may actually see tar and feathers.
Posted by: hkdakota | December 17, 2009, 9:27 am 9:27 am
What did you people expect when you elected a freshman senator who use to be a community organiser????? I mean really.
Posted by: billy bob | December 17, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am
i never heard president reagan once blame carter for anything, and for that matter, even george bush jr never once blamed clinton for anything, in fact, i believe it used to be an unwritten rule that presidents dont blame their predicessor, and this president hopes he can do just that for how long?? CRYBABY PRESIDENT!
Posted by: samuel | December 17, 2009, 9:49 am 9:49 am
I am an avid Obama supporter but he is totally failing to keep his campaign promise in an effort to achieve what he can point to as a political victory. I am becoming more disillusioned with him everyday for his failure to man up, use his presidential muscle, and get us meaningful reform. Also, he is talking about the end of his term? …. three years from now? …. we need reform now not three years from now. Peace All
Posted by: Robert | December 17, 2009, 9:58 am 9:58 am
I am very much enjoying watching these liberal socialists’ careers evaporate right before our eyes.
They have abandoned the will of the people. Last year America was misguided enough by biased journalists to elect a corrupt politician from chicago’s “pay to play” way, but real change is coming next year!
Posted by: Dave | December 17, 2009, 10:22 am 10:22 am
“It’s another getaway day for President Obama, as he heads to Copenhagen Thursday night for the climate conference.” — the Note
ABC and their counterparts in the Media continue to belittle whatever this President does or tries to do for our country. It seems they all want to be reminded daily that we elected this President to lead our country.
So representing the United States at an important event is a ‘getaway’ to the Media and cohorts?
Posted by: New Wave | December 17, 2009, 10:24 am 10:24 am
Why are they trying to pass reform that the majority of citizens clearly don’t want? Aren’t they supposed to represent us? I love how the Dems bash the Reps for delay tactics on health care. Don’t you get it? We don’t want this reform…….we support their delay tactics. Wake up and listen for once.
Obama is a fraud. All talk, no substance. The American people took the bait….hook, line, and sinker. Now we all have to live with the consequences until he becomes completely impotent in NOV 2010.
Posted by: ace636 | December 17, 2009, 10:25 am 10:25 am
Until Congress and the President stop spending OUR money like drunken sailors on shore leave, I don’t want them to pass ANYTHING. They can’t seem to pass one bill without loading it down with bribes, and political favors.
Posted by: wheresmymoney | December 17, 2009, 10:26 am 10:26 am
Everyone please sit back and think how truly “transparent” this process has been. Now, Obama calls the Dems in his office to discuss it and force Lieberman to vote with them. Reid hasn’t even released the amendment to the GOP yet and it appears the Dems don’t give a darn what the GOP has to say. But, comically, the GOP said the “public option” was going to be too expensive and drive insurance companies to go under. 1st, Really, is this a “transparent” process? 2nd, they went after Lieberman’s wife to “twist” his arm. Tactics, secret’s and political points is what they are about.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 10:40 am 10:40 am
Another Mussolini look-a-like photo. Can someone find Prez. O’Babble that little hat with the tassel ?
Posted by: Ron | December 17, 2009, 10:56 am 10:56 am
The liberals’ attempts at healthcare “reform” has NEVER been about healthcare, it has always been about control of the people. This is the first step in every communist/socialist takeover of any country.
Liberalism is the belief that government can fix any problem as the long as the right people are put in charge. That is completely wrong and very dangerous.
If liberalism/communism/socialism works, then our infant capitalist USA would not be the world’s wealthiest, most generous, and most powerful nation the world has ever seen-one of the other socialist/communist countries would have been. But instead, it seems that all those other counties have been able to do over the last 100 years is murder a combined 200,000,000 people. China, germany, italy, russia, vietnam, cambodia have all tried this “universal healthcare” and it has failed miserably and led to horrific consequences for those forced to use it. The governement becomes too powerful.
Posted by: Dave | December 17, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am
People know about single payer health care now and that’s where we’re going. 18 more republicans senate seats on the ballot in 2010. Lets outsource their jobs to real single payer democrats. Time to get rid of the phony baloney parasitic health care insurance market that eats up 1 of every 3 dollars spent on health care but provide no service to the patient.
Posted by: rightbehind | December 17, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am
Lets see, more than half the senators and if not more than that do not even know what is in this bill. Most have not read it and Reid has not made most of it public to read. Lets see, Democrates are not listening to the majority of this nation who are saying kill the bill until it is fully understood. Do not cram something at a costs that is unknown just so you can say you did something. The dems will suffer thgis next election. That is a solid given. The reps will have to clean it up again and then take the heat for it like they always do.
Posted by: Jim Rod | December 17, 2009, 11:17 am 11:17 am
rightbehind…how are you going to do that?the dems ship and brand is sinking as fast as tiger woods.the vast majority of americans do not want the change that pelosi and obama are trying to deliver. this is not what peolple wanted when they voted againt bush last november.i do see now more than ever EXPERIENCE DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
Posted by: catman | December 17, 2009, 11:36 am 11:36 am
It is great to see the many posts against this ridiculous health care bill and it is also heartening to see that ABC didn’t block the posts. Sleeping America is waking up.
Posted by: Downwithsocialism | December 17, 2009, 11:37 am 11:37 am
ace636 – Why? you ask. The annual rising cost of health care is crippling our economy. Basically, we fund health care from three sources: government (medicare, medicaid, veterans programs); businesses/employers or individuals. Usually, there’s some financial mix involved. Businesses realize an increase of about 12 percent per year. They will opt out, shift more costs to employees (co-pays), reduce production and jobs or move jobs overseas. Insurance companies are basically profit centers who are only responsible to their shareholders. They aren’t interested in your health except as it affects their bottom line.
Posted by: 63tango | December 17, 2009, 11:43 am 11:43 am
The public option has majority support, no matter how many times you righties claim otherwise.
And Democrats are still ahead of Republicans in generic 2010 Congressional polls, no matter how many times you claim otherwise.
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 11:45 am 11:45 am
Last straw and “sign” this Pres. was NOT a President of the American people?
Obama, along with his “back room dealer” Rahm Emmanuel did manage to twist some arms to KILL LOWER PERSCRIPTION PRICES FOR ALL AMERICANS, ALL TO PROTECT OBAMA’S DEAL WITH BIG PHARMA. His big chance to really, really help Mainstreet and he spits in our faces. I for one will not forget or forgive Obama on this one, especially with all his “soaring” rhetoric about this very issue during his “change” campaign. I’d call that down right lying.
Posted by: mackie | December 17, 2009, 11:45 am 11:45 am
Gosh, Gary…what polls are YOU looking at? If you want to see a compilation of almost all of the major polling services on one page, just look at realclearpolitics dot com. RCP does not do polling. All it does is gather up all the results of all of the pollsters and ‘averages’ them. Take a look…you won’t like it, but maybe you can get it through your skull that MOST of the recognized polling services (including conservative and liberal services) have found that support for HCR is less than 50% across the board. That those who strongly oppose it (the ‘righties’ , i suppose) far outnumber those who stronly favor it. You are in a state of denial. There IS help for you, and it’s coming in 2010, so just hold on. In the meantime, you may want to contemplate which polling service is more reliable: Those that are recognized as credible or the single one that exists in your own mind? Just take a look before you post your own opinion as fact. Thanks
Posted by: ncpilot10 | December 17, 2009, 11:56 am 11:56 am
oh, yeah…and Gary? You might NOT want to look at the generic poll results for the 2010 elections. I’m not sure your mind or your heart will be able to take the results. It’s a long ways off til November, but things ain’t lookin’ so good for you. And again…this is NOT based on a righties polling service….it is based on an average of ALL the polling service….Sorry to disappint you. But Merry Christmas
Posted by: ncpilot10 | December 17, 2009, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll Dec. 11-14, 2009
“The proposed legislation would no longer create a public health care plan administered by the federal government to compete directly with private health insurance companies.”
acceptable 42
not acceptable 45
“Instead of creating a government-administered public health care plan, the proposed legislation would create a health insurance plan offered by private insurers that would be available in every state for people who lack employer-provided coverage, and would allow people between the ages of fifty-five and sixty-four years old to buy into Medicare, the government health care plan for seniors.”
acceptable 58
unacceptable 32
ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Dec. 10-13, 2009
“There are a few ideas on health insurance for people who are not insured through work, or Medicare or Medicaid. One is to create a government health insurance plan to compete with private insurance plans for these people. Another is to have the government negotiate with private insurers to offer these people insurance that meets government specifications. A third is to leave the current system as it is. Which of these would you prefer for people who do not have health insurance: a government plan to compete with private plans, private plans coordinated by the government, or the current system as it is now?”
Gov’t Plan 36
Private Plans
Coordinated
By Gov’t 30
current system 30
CBS News/New York Times Poll. Dec. 4-8, 2009
“Would you favor or oppose the government offering some people who are uninsured the choice of a government-administered health insurance plan — also known as a ‘public option’ — that would compete with private health insurance plans?”
favor 59
oppose 29
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
The realclearpolitics averages are useless, since they lump the opposition from the right with the opposition from the left. Add together the supporters of the current bill with the ones who want it to go father and include a public option and you get a real clear majority.
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 12:08 pm 12:08 pm
Private insurance companies are just a bunch of ghoulish paper pushing – money grubbing middle men who deny people care when they need it. The only thing wrong with this bill is that it fails to do away with them entirely and replace them with something more humane. That of course is the fault of greedy congressman and politicians who are in their greedy corporate pockets.
On the other hand, the Obama administration may simply be playing dumb. Creating this monstrosity of a healthcare bill (with Baucus as the fall guy) that rewards theiving private insurers – in order to get us all clamoring for totally government run public healthcare. We are playing right into their hands. Unfortunately if the bill passes, we lose from our pockets- if it doesnt pass is it truly a win if the government comes at us again with some other bill where they take healthcare over completely? Very perplexing.
I guess the only thing we can do if the bill passes or not is to vote out those in congress November 2010. They obviously are spending their way into oblivion and we cant spend our way out of a problem. Throwing money at a problem instead of a solution is a classic management mistake.
More empty threats from the liar-in-chief. Another story on this ABCNEWS website (The World Newser) reads: President Obama: Federal Government ‘Will Go Bankrupt’ if Health Care Costs Are Not Reined In – give me a break as if Obama and Congress intend to reign in spending even just a little. In the meantime they sneak through $155 billion in addition to the $787 billion dollar failed stimulus bill, plus a $1.5 trillion dollar spening bill, plus cash for clunkers, plus the housing rebate, plus the bank bailouts etc etc. Does anyone think this healthcare reform farce is not another excuse to break the national piggy bank with a hammer?
Posted by: auntydemocrat2010 | December 17, 2009, 12:14 pm 12:14 pm
I don’t know enough about the health care bill to be for it or against it. My only hope is that the people voting for this bill understands the bill, and the effect it will have on this country when passed.
Posted by: jd2408 | December 17, 2009, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm
I see that many people here are against the health care bill. Could any of you please state why ? Please be specific with your points and not general. I hear a lot of talk everywhere but no one states facts of what they are talking about.
Posted by: jd2408 | December 17, 2009, 12:21 pm 12:21 pm
Is Reid so desperate that he was willing to break the rules of the Senate when the reading of the bill was stopped?
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 12:27 pm 12:27 pm
jd2408 | Dec 17, 2009 12:21:24 PM….There has been volumes already written why MORE THAN 61% (PER cnn) are against Obamacare. Does it bother you that Obama expects his Democratic senators to sign a bill manipulated by Reid, that only a handful know what is in it and I’m guessing none have read entirely?
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm
Some senators have written a letter calling for an investigation about the threats from the WhiteHouse to Bob Nelson (D from NE)to put Offhut Airbase (a SAC base) on the BRAC list.
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm
I’ve come to conclusion the politicians no longer represent their constituents, but rather represent their own political ideology. With the overwhelming majority of Americans in opposition of the current version of health care, Democrats are hell bent on transforming American health care. How sad!
Posted by: American Conservative Values Journal | December 17, 2009, 12:38 pm 12:38 pm
This guy Obama is an embarrassment to everyone. He has lots of company , not just him. At some point, this irrational behavior has to stop. The guy and his minions are nuts.
Posted by: cfiman | December 17, 2009, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm
GOP –Means Got Our Payola— NO NO NO — Whine Whine Whine —
Paid Off By Big Pharma/ Insurance/Defense/Oil – At least the Dems attempt to do something rather than start
phony wars for Corporate Profit based on Lies and cherry picked erroneous intelligence!!!
Posted by: brian | December 17, 2009, 12:44 pm 12:44 pm
American Conservative Values Journal | Dec 17, 2009 12:38:09 PM
….I lean more towards the idea that its Obama, the White House, Reid, and Pelosi who are bullying those Democrats who are trying to represent their constituency who are concerned (about many aspects of the bill).
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm
Can you do any better than just accuse, accuse, accuse? Got any facts ?
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 12:47 pm 12:47 pm
A self employed contractor’s dream is to have Affordable health insurance, is to Not be denied Health Insurance due to Pre-existing health conditions, is to Not be charged 5 to 10 times more than others due to Pre-existing health conditions, is to Not get dropped by the insurance company due to sudden serious illness.
Self employed people’s nightmare, Not to have any medical insurance at all. Not to be able to Afford Medical insurance at all. To suddenly get sick and loose everything due to Not having any medical insurance at all.
Without the Affordable Public Option insurance, the nightmare continues.
Posted by: Angie | December 17, 2009, 12:48 pm 12:48 pm
It’s now clear to the majority of Americans, that the health care proposals set forth by obama, were never ment for the welfare of the people, but rather a control devise for social reform to promote the leftist agenda.
This , more than anything, else has doomed this vailed attempt.
Think this bill is smelly? Wait until the wraps come off “Cap & Trade”.
The soros/obama crock!
Posted by: US731 | December 17, 2009, 12:49 pm 12:49 pm
Not long ago Obama had doctors act as props when he spoke at the Whithouse, even supplying them with white coats to look the part. Now, when a doctor speaks out about how bad this bill is, he is attacked by Obama’s people even though he is one of their own. I guess to Obama doctors are only good folk if they agree with him.
Posted by: anitlaen2 | December 17, 2009, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
are we supposed to feel sorry for these radical libs forcing their unpopular unwanted agenda onto us, the american taxpayer?? please.. if they were doing their sworn duty, uphold the constitution, do teh bidding of the american people we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Posted by: realman1963 | December 17, 2009, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm
To the Democratic Senate Please use the Brains God has given you.Do not Trade this country down the hill. The majority do not want this Bill we the people or are we .I can not wait until election time again,and those of you who agree with your socialist boss will be run out of office this I can honestly say.
Posted by: Joeray | December 17, 2009, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
Angie | Dec 17, 2009 12:48:02 PM
….I can only speak for myself (although my friends and family agree), but, if this healthcare bill fails, I will work to get healthcare reforms passed. My Rep (an OB-GYN) has targeted many of the specific areas posters on the formum have discussed. I have only seriously gotten involved beginning with ‘healthcare’ beginning with the 2008 presidential campaign.
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
i dont want this passed until we have jobs dealt with and send illegal immigrants home. without illegals unemployment will drop and i dont have to worry about paying for their ill gotten health insurance. when thats done i will support healthcare reform because i know it s going to americans.the new world order push is beginning to disenigrate as we are seeing the riots in coppenhaggen and the thumbing by iran to obama…time to take care of the good old usa and send soros and the socialists packing.
Posted by: catman | December 17, 2009, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm
I want a bill that will lower “Health Care Costs” not create a “Government Subsidized Insurance Company”. Health care costs are the problem and as long as they remain high, they will drive insurance premiums.——rightbehind—–You should change your name to LEFTbehind according to your posts.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 1:20 pm 1:20 pm
I am completely FOR health care reform and I will not vote for one senator or congress person who has created a road block for their own personal gain. America needs health care reform and they need it now. We are tired of all the politics so that each can blame the other – what we want is action and we want it now. I am also for a Public Option – I think this creates competition. those that call this socialism don’t know what they are talking about – if you are participating in social security, public school systems et al… then you have no voice to oppose public option.
Posted by: confidential416 | December 17, 2009, 1:21 pm 1:21 pm
For all you knuckleheads crying about “socialism”, the Senate bill would be a huge giveaway to private insurers. So I’m surprised you aren’t supporting it, since it accomplishes the traditional Republicans goal of turning taxpayer money into private profit.
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
This bill no longer has anything to do with health care it now delivers 30 million new customers to the insurance companies and if you dont pay the premium set by the insurance company you will be fined or go to jail.
Posted by: earl | December 17, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm
confidential416 | Dec 17, 2009 1:21:29 PM…….You mean I had a choice in NOT having social secuity taxes taxen out of my paycheck for 40 years? I guess I missed something.
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 1:33 pm 1:33 pm
: gary | Dec 17, 2009 1:28:28 PM
So, let’s scrap the bill. Then identify 1 problem at a time and fix it, until most or all are fixed.
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm
Like most people intuitively know — that “if we can just get our Foot through the door, we have a chance of opening that door all the way! And, if we don’t begin somewhere, and start the “cooking of the egg”, then how much more expensive will healthcare costs become. And, if this is not a good thing, why are they (GOP/ Conserva Dems) fighting so hard to stop it. They too know that if we just get our foot through the door, there will be no stopping. Yes, it is too bad that there are not more in Congress who work for the people, but we have to work with what we have at the moment, take stock of this and work harder for true Jeffersons, and Washingtons and Franklins in the future. They will come…
I have not given up on Pres. Obama, for I have not given up on what is good! He is fighting old, intrinsic and entrenched patterns of greed which will not die easily or go quietly into the night. He is however planting the seeds for their destruction. Take Heart!
POSITIVE EXERCISE: Sit quietly, focus in the third eye, link up with your Soul (the soul is light/love and always works for the good of all) and visualize health care reform As passed, implemented into law with a public option — for energy always follows thought!
Posted by: Angellight | December 17, 2009, 1:38 pm 1:38 pm
“”"if you are participating in social security, public school systems et al… then you have no voice to oppose public option.”"”"”
Posted by: confidential416
Seriously, how old are you? I HAVE A CHOICE FOR SOCIAL SECURITY? I have a choice for paying for public schools (I have no kids here)? Here’s a thought for you: The Govt pestimates 15 million Americans will opt for the public option (I would predict MANY more). Insurance companies average profit margin 4%. Health care costs continue to rise (because nothing in this bil addresses health care cost, it is an insurance bill). As health care costs rise, insurance premiums profit margin falls so they increase their rates or go out of business right? If health care costs keep rising, will the government insurance program have to raise their rates to cover for it? OR they could subsidize more and accept more people from failing insurance companies. This would make their estimates waaay off and cost even more money because we have not addressed the root cause which is HEALTH CARE COSTS. Got it? We need health care reform, not a Government Subsidized Insurance Program.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 1:42 pm 1:42 pm
The Democrats, who hold ALL the cards, can’t even pass this horrible bill, deceptively created as a “fix” for the system, which wont even cut the uninsured in half, which will cause insurance premiums to increase, which has to be declared “deficit neutral” by taking 10 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of the plan. This bill deserves a quick death!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm
“”"”"”"how much more expensive will healthcare costs become. “”"”"”"
Posted by: Angellight
Then I have one simple question for you: How does a Government Subsidized Insurance Program actually lower Health Care Costs?
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
You can’t read anything that hasn’t been released from committee and most Senators haven’t even read what has now changed at least 3 times in a week.
This is called being faithful to the party rulers. Of course they are starting to get worried about what WE are thinking, watching this comedy show go on in Washington. Some Senators are starting to worry about 2010 elections and how their vote on this bill will be accepted by their constituancy back home.
Public opinion means alot and people should be contacting their elected politicians and letting them know what YOU think of the bill.
Get involved with this bill or be prepared for the consequences of it’s passage.
Posted by: indymind | December 17, 2009, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm
Why didn’t I have a choice in having social security payments withheld from my check for <40 years? Because the government claims to know what was best for me? My 401K, even have the financial crisis caused by the government, is ok. Next I have have had Medicare withheld from my checks starting ~1965. What choice did I have in that? What will I get (besides screwed without a thank you!)?
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm
Mr. President I believe you are a good man, and I’m not one of those Americans who has forgotten how eight years of the Bush League got us where we are today. Indeed I find you to be the first Statesman we’ve had in the White House since John Kennedy. However, Mr. President until there are more like you in government and fewer like Joe Liberman and Cheney, you need to adjust to some unpleasant realities and “fight the good fight” differently. I mean, when you lose Keith Obermann, it’s time to consider a different approach. Truly unless Heath Care Bill includes at least a Medicare buy-in, it is neither Reform nor as honorable as you.
Real Health Care Reform requires more than 60 votes in Congress. It requires Health Care Reform in our National MIND-SET: YES, both eating habits of a fast food nation and Fast Food Corporations must share in responsibility for our National Obesity; YES, Healthy Reform in Public Education is as necessary to the development of our youth, as are more healthy items on the school lunch menu, for a healthy human mind is a most valuable asset to any Nation; YES, Healthy Campaign Finance Reform would lead the way to lucrative health in any National Budget for Preventive Care, for bridges, schools, Community Centers and fewer foreclosures. For the best of Health, invest more in Peace and less in war.
This is the Truth about America that will set us free from our impatience and fears.
Then again we will be “Sweet Land of Liberty.” This is the America I remember in my dreams and it is “…of thee I sing:” “Let Freedom Ring!”
Giving HOPE a Helping Hand,
Marcello
Posted by: Marcello Rollando | December 17, 2009, 1:55 pm 1:55 pm
Marcello Rollando —- Maybe you should check on your “Rule of Law” when it comes to forcing Americans to buy into something they don’t want or need and fining or locking them up if they don’t comply. For all the drama in your post I thought your actually joking, but I was wrong. Please point out to us within the constitution where it is legal to do this and I will quickly explain why you are mistaken.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 1:59 pm 1:59 pm
‘”"”HOPE a Helping Hand,”"”"
Posted by: Marcello Rollando
Here’s your hope:
Help
Obama’s
Presidency
End
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:06 pm 2:06 pm
“Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is a day ahead of him, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., got business wrapped up in time to lead the congressional delegation.”
so how many millions of dollars of our money is this trip going to cost? do they REALLY need to go? of course not. do they WANT to go? sure – because that’s the only thing these scumbags are interested in – preserving they’re cushy and privileged lifestyle.
and the healthcare bill has become nothing more than – and I quote the dems and obama “a victory”
Posted by: Dogman | December 17, 2009, 2:08 pm 2:08 pm
Angellight —- You said Obama “is fighting old, intrinsic and entrenched patterns of greed which will not die easily” —- Come on, wake up!! The “Hope and change” was rhetoric — If he REALLY wanted change, he would keep his campaign promises…. Transparency (all dem meetings are behind closed doors), No new taxes below $250k (the senate health care bill alone creates 16 new taxes, many on ALL Americans), No Earmarks (The budget bill just passed had over 5000 earmarks), No lobbyists (Nothing has changed, business as usual for Obama)—— Obama is all smoke and mirrors!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 2:13 pm 2:13 pm
Dogman — Please don’t forget their absolute favorite……HISTORIC.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:14 pm 2:14 pm
Actions speak louder than words (and in some cases diametrically opposed). So, all of the concern for spending by the administration, are they doing anything to hold down costs?
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 2:17 pm 2:17 pm
Angellight —- The $1.1 trillion bill on Obama’s desk contains over $4 billion in pet projects (ie. pork). Health caer bill Obama is supposed to go line by line with our politicians, while most of them haven’t even read it. Tom Coburn required the amendment to be read at the house and he was accused of “stalling”. No, Tom is a doctor and he knows this bill is BS.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:17 pm 2:17 pm
let’s not be nasty complainers, but hope
and pray that they get a health care
system that works well for all.
Posted by: dan | December 17, 2009, 2:18 pm 2:18 pm
HoosierValues | Dec 17, 2009 2:13:41 PM….You forgot Obama expecting a vote on the bill, Reid has been working on, without anyone (other than the committee members) having a chance to read the bill.
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm
“”"”"”are they doing anything to hold down costs?”"”"”
Posted by: deanbob
Nope! But that will open up a flood of posts saying “Bush spent too much also”.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:19 pm 2:19 pm
let’s not be nasty complainers, but hope
and pray that they get a health care
system that works well for all.
Posted by: dan | December 17, 2009, 2:21 pm 2:21 pm
“”"”they get a health care system that works well for all.”"”
Posted by: dan
“THEY” already have one that works for them. We have one that works for about 275 million people. What needs to be focussed on is health care costs and getting the 20 million who want insurance and do not have it and those wishing to better their insurance. I am all for elimination of pre-existing conditions as a beginning to reform, but that will also drive existing premiums higher which I would accept. But, this bill does not address costs in the health care industry.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:23 pm 2:23 pm
Every citizen should call Washington and let them know that they don’t want this health care bill. This using tax payer money to buy votes must for an unwanted bill has to stop! The Democrat’s display of gangster politics in Washington is ruining our faith and trust in our government. Our tax dollars deserve better representation of its citizenery rather then using our money for bribes,threats and big money pay offs as these corrupt Democrat’s are doing now.
Posted by: John Demeter | December 17, 2009, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
Add together the supporters of the current bill with the ones who want it to go father and include a public option and you get a real clear majority. -posted by gary
—-
Gary, did you read this before clicking post comment?
Statistically, it’s ridiculous. You are adding figures from those who want the existing as is and figures from those who kind of like existing but want more to get an average of opinions of ALL Americans. Nice try, but you can’t eliminate those who don’t suit your views and then say ‘see the majority want it’.
A valid average must..as in MUST..include participants from ALL viewpoints.
Or do you just want to eliminate all Americans who don’t agree with your personal views? Hope you have SEVERAL weapons of MASS destruction because there are a lot of us, and we come from all over the USA.
Posted by: malcat | December 17, 2009, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm
We are in a war with long-entrenched corporate interests. Losing a battle does not mean we have lost the war. It means that we should brace for more action.
President Obama stated this during last year’s campaign: CHANGE would not be easy as entrenched interests would fight to maintain the status quo.
My prediction is that medicare expansion will come up as bill on its own. It will be a way to make medicare solvent since having people less than 65 buy in (at premiums even 200% of what older recipients pay) would increase inflow of funds from people who would not need as much medical procedures as our elderly citizens.
In this fight, I know that nothing good ever comes easy.
Posted by: New Wave | December 17, 2009, 2:25 pm 2:25 pm
lfrichar | Dec 17, 2009 2:19:27 PM……I know. But my response continues to be 2 wrongs don’t make a right. And just because I (many of us) didn’t push for healthcare reforms, if this bill fails, I plan to fight for healthcare reform !
Posted by: deanbob | December 17, 2009, 2:30 pm 2:30 pm
deanbob—- i am with you on health care reform. We need to get the costs down and those who do not have insurance and want it need to be helped. Those who want to change theirs should be taken into consideration. Maybe government regulations on profit margins on pharmaceuticals, medical practice and procedures and insurance are a start to reform. So many people have been brainwashed that it is the insurance companies killing us, but the truth is health care costs drive insurance premiums, whether you get your insurance privately or from the government. Attack costs and watch the rest follow.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm
Dan — Finding a “health care
system that works well for all” — That’s the problem with trying to come up with “government regulations” to cover the whole nation. The STATE insurance departments have regulated insurance companies for decades because it’s hard to find out whats “good” for ALL states or ALL people!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm
Health insurance companies are basically brokers between us and healthcare providers. Why should we continue to accept brokers charging 30% of our premiums as ‘brokerage fees’?
Posted by: New Wave | December 17, 2009, 2:47 pm 2:47 pm
Ifrichar —- Lets not put regulations on profits, this is still a capitalist economy! —- Look at tort reform — it is estimated to cut medical costs by $200Billion alone — lets start there!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 2:48 pm 2:48 pm
HoosierValues: where did the ‘capitalist’ economy lead us to?
Why should healthcare be profit-oriented?
Posted by: New Wave | December 17, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
HoosierValues — Without a doubt tort reform and allowing competition by opening up state to state issues. IF we are to reform health care federally, we need the states to step aside. You can’t get 50 state reps to agree on having a drink if they were sitting at the bar together and the drinks were free (or at least paid for out of our taxes).
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
where in the heck did bama get those hugh ears. not from straining to hear others speak thats for sure
Posted by: rking | December 17, 2009, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm
New Wave —- You said “Why should we continue to accept brokers charging 30% of our premiums as ‘brokerage fees’?” —- First of all, 30% is YOUR made-up number —- proove that with independent statistics — the last I saw by an independent auditing firm looking at the entire industry showed 87% of all premiums went to claims — and 2008 profits (indus ave) was 3.3%. — Insurance companies have a right to cover their costs and make a profit. —- If this were government-run, they wouldn’t show % of expense or profits — because it would all be HIDDEN in out TAX BASE!!! — Nothing is “free”!! — Wake up!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 2:55 pm 2:55 pm
“”"”Why should healthcare be profit-oriented?”"”"”
Posted by: New Wave
I would be all for single payer government run health care if we had the doctors, staff and facilities (infrastructure) to support it OR injected the money for it. Private practice would still be used by those who have money. It would be nice to go to the doctor and leave without having to pay for anything. With a country as large as ours, it will probably never happen. While the Dems demonize the insurance industry (profit margin lower than McDonald’s) they say nothing about health care industry costs which is exactly the root cause for insurance premiums being what they are today. Looking at how expensive our government is today, do you really believe they can negotiate to bring medical costs down?
Posted by: lfrichar | December 17, 2009, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm
HoosierValues: You mention 3.3% profit margin of insurance companies. Hope you know that the margin is after spending 30% of our premiums on obscene executive salaries among others.
Posted by: New Wave | December 17, 2009, 3:01 pm 3:01 pm
New Wave — YOU asked “Why should healthcare be profit-oriented?” —- Becuase almost everything done in the private sector of a capitalist economy is “profit based” — that is why insurance companies have “spread” the disastrous effect of a major healthcare claim amongst a pool of thousands of other people for 80 years. — They do the administrative work, and deserve to be compensated —- By the way, Capitalism is what has made our country successful for 200 years!!! Name a succesful Socialist country!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 3:02 pm 3:02 pm
catman; rightbehind has been posting the same position for nearly 2 years now. He never does or say anything else. He has no other opinions on any other subject. He also never bothers to explain how what he says will work. Very strange indeed.
Posted by: LongT | December 17, 2009, 3:11 pm 3:11 pm
New Wave — I asked you at 2:55 TO NAME YOUR SOURCE — Do you have one or are you just making this up as you go?? — Mine came from the independent and respected auditing firm of Price-Waterhouse-Cooper, who did a study on the insurance industry for the year 2008!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 3:15 pm 3:15 pm
you guys are psycho…voting against your own interests…but go war! God, no wonder this country is going down hill…it’s not the democrat’s fault, it’s yours…your postings reflect sheer stupidity. I feel sorry for all of you.
Posted by: s | December 17, 2009, 3:21 pm 3:21 pm
I’ve got a deal for anyone who wants it —- I have a really expensive car to sell you, but I know you don’t want to pay a high monthly payment —- So I will allow you to pay for the car over 10 YEARS (payments starting now), but you have to build up some equity before I can give you the car — so I will give you the car in four years! — Sound good??? — Liberals in favor of healthcare reform, does this sound OK to you????? — Come on, I thought this was the kind of accounting you liked!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 3:22 pm 3:22 pm
The GOP comments are based on what the Dems or Reid and Polosi are allowing to be released. I bet Obama has no clue what all the bill contains. Reid and Polosi have not puleed his puppet strings yet to tell him
Posted by: Jim Rod | December 17, 2009, 3:34 pm 3:34 pm
As our president declares our country will bankrupt if we don’t reform healthcare, I continue to maintain our country will bankrupt whether healthcare is reformed or not. Just yesterday our Sec. of State pledged $200 billion annually to emerging nations to be applied to a greener environment. That’s another $2 trillion commitment of tax dollars over the next ten years, and this while the world’s biggest polluters refuse to participate in bringing carbon emissions down. Man of the year Ben Bernanke has fed trillions of our dollars into the financial sector w/o any congressional approval. I’d sure like to see what that figure actually amounts to. Money borrowed from taxpayers to bail out the financial sector and auto industry (now being repaid to avoid government intervention in their private business)is not being used to pay down the national debt as promised. We’re waiting to see if Mr. President’s promise to veto any legislation with earmarks was made with resolve as a $1.1 trillion spending bill with over 5000 earmarks heads for his desk.Our government has spent the money paid into the social security trust so it will be bankrupting soon. Our medicare contributions are going to providers who submit fraudulent claims and bills with inflated prices and to pay for expensive procedures that the medical professions feel they must perform to protect themselves from lawsuits. Litigation attorneys continue to harrass our medical professionals and tie up our courts with frivilous lawsuits. And finally bleeding heart liberal judges require the hospitals in America to provide free healthcare to people who are paying nothing…nothing into the system and many of those people not even American citizens. Dumb dumb dumb. Of course this country is going to bankrupt because our leaders aren’t statesmen who want to preserve this nation. They are merely politicians who buy votes by promising to give something to those who support them. It’s our money they are giving, fellow taxpayers, and they are giving it to those who are not contributing even as our economy wanes. To say our economy is growing is to deny that it’s not even keeping up with the inflation rate. To say our economy is recovering is to deny that every day more and more Americans are unemployed and that homes are being foreclosed at a higher rate than a year ago. Only the stock market has recovered but that’s a mysterious phenomenon. Businesses aren’t paying shareholder dividends so the question must be asked why stock values are up. Yes Mr. President this country is definitely headed for bankruptcy whether we reform healthcare or not if our legislators continue down the path they are focused on.
Posted by: mmonroeliveson | December 17, 2009, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm
Healthcare reform and globle warming (carbon tax and trade). Two of the most powerfull ways to gain FULL power over everything you and I say, do or buy and live. This Pres has his hands deep into both of these. $$$!!! This is part of the grand plan for a one world order. Take a look! Read and be prepared. This is all about him and not about America or it’s people. He says one thing and means another. So many people following the pied piper still. He wants the glory of the world and now regardless of the damage done to the country or her people. I truly don’t care if the pres is Dem or Rep as long as he or she represents America and it’s people and is not a lone wolf. We all should be wide eyed by now and if not get some coffee, wake up and learn quickly.
Posted by: wakeup | December 17, 2009, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm
I volunteered a lot of time to get Pres. Obama elected in the promise of change…..There is no change …its worse, now we will have a mandate to buy health insurance with no REAL OPTIONS to choose…It looks like a lot of tax payers money will be spent on keeping us in prison …maybe we will get health care there ??????
Posted by: SAL FLOOD | December 17, 2009, 4:01 pm 4:01 pm
mmonroe —- You said it brother!! — Believe it or not, I’m stocking up on food while the prices stay down — hyper-inflation will hit within 12-18 months!! — The dollar will tank —- and all the Dems can do is pass bills to spend even MORE money we don’t have!!! — Truely sad — thank goodness conservatives will regain control of the house and senate after the 2010 elections — I wonder if it wil be soon enough!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | December 17, 2009, 4:11 pm 4:11 pm
malcat
You are dead wrong of course, since I’ve already posted polls showing a majority of Americans WANT A GOVERNMENT RUN PUBLIC OPTION.
The realclearpolitics number cited earlier claiming majority opposition to reform is a misnomer, because it doesn’t differentiate between those that oppose any reform at all (Republicans) from those that oppose the current bill because it doesn’t go far enough and include a government option.
When you add the people who oppose the current bill because it doesn’t contain a government option to those who support the reform bill as is, you get well over 50%. You can feel free to ignore basic math if you want.
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm
Oh Yes ..now i get what the “Public Option” means ……You get it with this bill as it is now 12/17….when you cant afford any health insurance …you refuse to pay the fine by the mandate imposed on you …so you go to jail where you get the “Public Option” health care …cool way to go Dems !!!!!!you fooled them all……
Posted by: SAL FLOOD | December 17, 2009, 4:13 pm 4:13 pm
The United States is the only western industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system. Not only do these other countries have 100% coverage, they do it for half of what we spend per capita to get 80% coverage.
We also lag behind other global powerhouses as Trinidad and Tobago, Chile, Cuba, Mexico, Qatar, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and Uruguay, among others.
Posted by: gary | December 17, 2009, 4:25 pm 4:25 pm
It is disappointing to witness the unravelling of Pres. Obama…This healthcare fiasco seems to show him as a poltical novice and not a master politician who ran a great campaign…He told voters what they wanted to hear perhaps he should govern by giving them what they want that got him voted into office in the first place…
Posted by: LaDVna | December 17, 2009, 7:17 pm 7:17 pm
I can’t wait for Congress waters down the universal health care. Our country
could save billions of dollars if our country get rid off medicare and medicade.
Posted by: John Kramer | December 17, 2009, 9:08 pm 9:08 pm