Joe Knows: Obama Pitches, Lieberman Swings
EmailABC News’ Rick Klein reports: That’s all it took? (And what does it do again?)
There is likely to be a Senate health care bill, after all — if you can adjust your definitions to fit political realities of a frustrated Congress 10 days before Christmas.
If you were hoping for something more — the public option, say, that was in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s draft and on President Obama’s wish list, or the Medicare expansion that was pitched as the breakthrough compromise that liberals would be able to swallow — then, maybe not so much.
President Obama meets with the Senate Democratic caucus this afternoon with a final pitch and a whole lot of explaining to do — to Democrats about how a single senator who’s not even really a Democrat anymore has gotten to shape the bill to his liking; to liberals who see this bill as nothing close to what they were promised; to a public that had been struggling to understand health care reform long before it moved to the back rooms.
The motivating principle: Movement, even if it’s for its own sake, is better than the alternative. If health care still has a chance (and the prospects of something passing haven’t looked this good in months), it can’t — just simply cannot — stall now.
The president’s message to Democrats: “This is a once in a lifetime opportunity,” a top White House official tells The Note Tuesday morning.
Maybe that gets the president the Christmas gift he wants. But getting the left to blink — and only one time, at one step of the showdown — doesn’t make a law, or a good law.
All over, seemingly, but the voting: “Senate Democrats on Monday evening dropped a plan to expand Medicare, winning the support of moderates and the reluctant acquiescence of liberals, in another major step toward building enough support to pass a health-care overhaul,” Greg Hitt writes in The Wall Street Journal.
“We all stand shoulder to shoulder,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (delivering marching orders).
ABC’s Jonathan Karl, Z. Byron Wolf, and Kristina Wong: “Senators emerging from the special Democratic caucus confirmed that the Medicare buy-in proposal will have to be stripped from the Senate bill in order to achieve 60 votes, marking a major concession on behalf of liberal Democrats fighting to have a public option, or some kind of alternative.”
Plus: “Congressional sources told ABC News the White House is urging Senate Democrats to give in to Lieberman and to move forward with a scaled-down bill that includes no public option and no Medicare buy-in. White House sources deny this.”
On the left: “Several leading liberal lawmakers on Monday appeared resigned to the collapse of their dream of including either a new government insurance plan to compete with private plans or the proposal to expand Medicare,” the Los Angeles Times’ Noam N. Levey and Janet Hook report.
Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio (and you can almost hear the sigh): “There’s going to be a good bill.”
“Things are not moving in the right direction,” said Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., still hoping for a public option.
(End game!) “The end game at hand, Senate Democrats appeared ready to jettison a proposed Medicare expansion from historic health care legislation Monday in hopes of assuring Christmas-week passage of the bill to extend coverage to tens of millions,” the AP’s David Espo writes.
ABC’s Jonathan Karl: “It’s do-or-die time if they want to get a bill passed by Christmas.”
The strategy: “The argument is that big bills rarely fail in a dramatic vote. They bleed to death slowly, wasting away amid a procession of delays and procedural setbacks,” Ezra Klein writes at his Washington Post blog. “The longer a health-care reform bill takes, the less likely it is to pass.”
The big picture: “Will Democrats conclude they are better off passing a highly controversial bill than passing nothing at all? Most likely, the answer to that question is yes,” Gerald Seib writes in his Wall Street Journal column. “Most Democratic leaders have concluded that, as a political matter, something beats nothing.”
The big winner: “Mr. Lieberman could not be happier. He is right where he wants to be — at the center of the political aisle, the center of the Democrats’ efforts to win 60 votes for their sweeping health care legislation. For the moment, he is at the center of everything — and he loves it,” The New York Times’ David Herszenhorn and David Kirkpatrick report.
Ryan Grim, at Huffington Post: “Joe Lieberman has forced his will on the Senate Democratic caucus and the nation as a whole.”
The New Republic’s Jonathan Cohn: “The picture here is a politician with scant interest in the substance of reform, driven largely by broader themes. He is drawn to a heroic narrative in which he holds the gates against the run-amok liberalism that purged him from the party.”
The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder: “Lieberman has designed his public campaign as a way to streeeetch out the debate as much as possible, and just as Democrats seem to be on the verge of reaching him, like a quantum particle, he appears instantly at a completely different location, rendering useless at least a week of hard soldering by the Democrats.” Lieberman’s isn’t the only vote still in play: Health Care for America Now is pressing Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., to vote to end a GOP filibuster, in a new TV ad running in Nebraska.
One fewer ally? Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, R-Calif., said he now wants to “rethink” the bill: “I think, as a governor, I’m right now concerned of where they are. As a matter of fact, I’m not supporting it as much anymore, with as much enthusiasm, because the fact is it would cost our state $3 billion if they pass this health care bill,” he told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos on “GMA” Tuesday.
Where the work has to come next: Rep. Raul Grijalva, co-chairman of the House Progressive Caucus, on the emerging Senate bill, as compared to the House bill: “They are irreconcilable,” Grijalva, D-Ariz., said on ABC’s “Top Line” Monday. “And if we get something from the Senate that basically replicates what we have now in the [health care] system, I think it’s going to have a difficult time, if not an impossible time, getting through the House.”
Yet another hurdle, with a vote likely Tuesday: “Drugmakers intensified their lobbying push Monday against a popular proposal to allow Americans to buy cheaper drugs from other countries, one of several heated disputes that have bogged down negotiations over a heath-care reform bill,” Dan Eggen writes in The Washington Post. “The amendment, sponsored by Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (D-N.D.), would allow pharmacies and wholesalers to import U.S.-approved medication from Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan, where drug costs are far lower because of price controls.”
Hearing from the man himself: President Obama sits down at the White House with ABC’s Charlie Gibson Wednesday, during his last week in the “World News” anchor chair.
Tuesday afternoon — another taste of opposition: At 1:30 pm ET, at Upper Senate Park, tea partiers join Laura Ingraham, Rick Scott, Matt Kibbe of FreedomWorks, and Senators Jim DeMint, R-S.C., Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Richard Burr, R-N.C., for an “emergency rally.”
The “die-in” part: Per Talking Points Memo’s Eric Kleefeld, Tea Party organizer Mark Meckler writes: “The intention is to go inside the Senate offices and hallways, and play out the role of patients waiting for treatment in government controlled medical facilities. As the day goes on some of us will pretend to die from our untreated illnesses and collapse on the floor. Many of us plan to stay there until they force us to leave.”
From the memo from Resurgent Republic, going out Tuesday from Ed Gillespie and Whit Ayres: “Voters 55 and older are now extremely concerned about the federal government’s current level of spending and debt,” they write. “Congressional debates over fiscal issues, health care, and national security have led to Republicans in Congress being rated comparably to Democrats in Congress among all voters 55 and older. Moreover, Independent voters in this age cohort now rate Democrats in Congress significantly more negatively than Republicans.”
From the annals of national security and domestic politics — Gitmo movement on Tuesday.
“A prison complex 150 miles from Chicago will house Gitmo detainees, the Obama administration will announce [Tuesday],” per ABC’s Jake Tapper. “A senior administration official tells ABC News that on Tuesday the administration will announce that President Obama ‘has directed that the federal government proceed with the acquisition of the Thomson Correctional Center in Thomson, Illinois to house federal inmates and a limited number of detainees from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.’ ”
“They’re going to have to go to Congress to get funding … to transfer the prisoners to Thomson, and that is where it’s going to get controversial,” Tapper reported on “Good Morning America” Tuesday.
Lynn Sweet, of the Chicago Sun-Times: “Obama has directed the federal government to proceed with the acquisition of Thomson to house federal inmates under Bureau of Prisons authority and a ‘limited number’ of detainees from the Guantanamo Bay Military prison — estimated to be under 100 — to be housed in a portion of Thomson to be operated by the Department of Defense. The Bureau of Prisons would occupy 75 percent of the facility and the Defense Department would use 25 percent of the space for the detainees.”
“Gov. Patrick J. Quinn of Illinois and the state’s senior senator, Richard J. Durbin, will be briefed about the plan at the White House on Tuesday afternoon. The officials, both Democrats, have been enthusiastic supporters of bringing Guantánamo prisoners to Thomson, arguing that it would bring jobs to an impoverished part of the state,” Charlie Savage writes in The New York Times. “Top Illinois Republicans — including Representatives Donald Manzullo, whose district includes the prison, and Mark Steven Kirk, a candidate for the United States Senate seat once held by Mr. Obama — have denounced previous talk of such a move, saying it could make Illinois a target for terrorist attacks.”
(Think Kirk might have a good issue to run on?)
Also on the presidential schedule Tuesday: “This morning President Obama will travel to a Home Depot store in Northern Virginia to discuss how energy saving home projects help the economy with labor, manufacturing and small business leaders in the community,” per ABC’s Sunlen Miller.
The AP’s Julie Pace: “Hoping to jump-start his plans for job growth, President Barack Obama is pushing Congress to pass incentives for homeowners who retrofit their homes to make them more energy-efficient.”
Plus: “The White House has released a memo that Biden presented to the president outlining ways that funding from the administration’s $787 billion Recovery Act funding is making progress for toward a cleaner, more energy efficient economy,” ABC’s Karen Travers writes. “The report details ways that stimulus funds have been used toward advances in renewable energy, energy grid modernization, home energy efficiency projects and green automobiles.”
Fuel for Copenhagen: “A solid majority of Americans support the idea of a global treaty that would require the United States to reduce significantly greenhouse gas emissions, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, although many also express concern about the potential impact on the economy,” Susan Page reports.
Headline: “The U.S. Is on Board,” by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton: “It is time to launch a broad operational accord on climate change that will set us on a new course,” Clinton writes in an International Herald Tribune op-ed. “A successful agreement depends upon a number of core elements, but two are shaping up to be essential: first, that all major economies set forth strong national actions and resolve to implement them; and second, that they agree to a system that enables full transparency and creates confidence that national actions are in fact being implemented.”
Gov. Schwarzenegger, responding to Sarah Palin’s call for a presidential boycott of Copenhagen: “It is nonsense talk to say, first we should talk about the economy. You can do both.” Of those who “just don’t believe” global warming is real, he said: “They’re still living in the Stone Age — which is OK, we need people like that too.”
Great time for … immigration reform: House lawmakers are making good on their pledge to file a bill by the end of 2009, with Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., and company unveiling their comprehensive immigration reform measure at 12:30 pm ET at the Capitol.
(One of the main co-sponsors, Rep. Yvette Clarke, D-N.Y., will be on “Top Line” to talk about the bill, live at noon ET. Streaming at ABCNews.com.)
Some context: “Democrats on Tuesday begin their new push for an immigration bill, hamstrung by the image of legalizing millions of illegal immigrant workers at a time when the unemployment rate stands at 10 percent — more than twice what it was the last time Congress tried to act,” Stephen Dinan writes in the Washington Times.
Newsweek’s Arian Campo-Flores: “Needless to say, his bill won’t be taken up anytime soon. But Gutierrez knows that. This is symbolic more than anything–a strident warning by one of the Hispanic caucus’s most passionately pro-immigrant members that the Obama administration had better keep its word and tackle immigration reform in the new year, or face a Latino revolt.”
On House Democratic retirements — if three makes a trend, what’s that make four?
“House Democrats got a jolt Monday when a fourth lawmaker in a matter of weeks announced his retirement, leaving party officials and strategists fearful that they represent the leading edge of a wave of departures that could leave the Democrats vulnerable to significant losses in the 2010 midterm elections,” Chris Cillizza and Dan Balz write in The Washington Post.
Next up? “Among the names mentioned as potential retirements if the political environment does not improve are Rep. John M. Spratt Jr. (S.C.), Vic Snyder and Marion Berry (Ark.), and Rep. Chet Edwards (Tex.),” they write.
“Intriguingly, the seats held by [Rep. Bart] Gordon and his fellow retiring Tennessean, Rep. John Tanner, represent two of the only 21 congressional districts in the entire nation where John McCain’s vote percentage in 2008 exceeded George W. Bush’s in 2004, ABC political director David Chalian points out,” per The Note blog. “Members of Congress from those districts may be more concerned about a backlash against President Obama than in places where GOP loyalty and turnout was down last year.”
From flinging two-seam fastballs … to tracking cattle diseases: “Ross Ohlendorf has a decent full-time job — as a starting pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates,” per ABC News. “But he’s spending the winter in a cramped office of the Agriculture Department in Washington — where his main focus has been tracking the migration of cattle diseases.” (Watch for more on his on Tuesday’s “World News Webcast,” streaming live at 3 pm ET at ABCNews.com, or as a free download at iTunes.)
The Kicker:
“I don’t feel like a spoiler, I feel like somebody who’s wanted to be for health-care reform.” — Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn.
“Like most family members, the president and Buffett may not always agree on everything, but this latest discovery confirming they are related may shed light on why the two seem to see eye-to-eye on many issues.” — Anastasia Tyler, a genealogist whose research reveals that President Obama and Warren Buffett are seventh cousins three times removed.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/
Gulf of Mexico to Become Gulf of America? 
Can Mitt Romney Win Conservatives Back?
The president’s priorities have shifted – for better or worse – from one of actual legislative accom0lishment to a hope of scoring at least a minor political victory. It’s the political realities that this is all the White House can hope for.
But the Dems had better watch out now that the president has put Lieberman in full control of any health care bill.
Posted by: Matt | December 15, 2009, 8:33 am 8:33 am
good for you sen. liberman stick it to them its about time someone stood up to these lefty loon bags. as a moderate independent i see the president only wants to put notches in his belt and add up the debt what i see now is the collapse of this country never ever should a liberal be president moderates no problem they get it at least.
Posted by: natale from mass. | December 15, 2009, 8:54 am 8:54 am
There needs to be a Constitutional amendment that changes the senate term to 2 years instead of 6. Guys like loserman are able to thumb their noses at the public because once elected they are protected for 6 years. They wouldn’t be doing this if their seat was back on the ballot like every house seat. If we can get the democrats to to 65 seats we should be demanding it. The republicans will fall in line because they may see it as a way to gain ground.
Posted by: rightbehind | December 15, 2009, 8:55 am 8:55 am
So what are we the people going to get for Christmas? Not a damn thing in the way of helping us with the cost or access to health care that the criminals in congress are denying us.
They get their raises, cadillac health care and wages for LIFE, while we get the crumbs on the floor.
This is an outrage for the American people that have lost jobs, homes and their future.
Vote out all incumbents in the next election or you are all to blame.
Posted by: indymind | December 15, 2009, 8:56 am 8:56 am
give Lieberman, the crawling centipede, what he wants to get 60 votes. Merge the bill with the house bill adding an option for us, self employed professionals. Use reconciliation and get 50 senate votes for final passage.
Posted by: watching | December 15, 2009, 9:09 am 9:09 am
indymind…I agree! Vote OUT the likes Lieberman, McConnell, Boehner, McCain etc, who has USED this country for their OWN benefit and “thumped” their noises at the “little people”. I would like to see a new bred of Progressives elected who will Move this Country forward!..China and the rest of the world is Moving Forward, while the “old farts” are leading our country into “non-relevancy”. They don’t get it…that without a Strong Healthy People this country is WEAK and the world knows it.
Posted by: sara | December 15, 2009, 9:17 am 9:17 am
It is too bad that Senator Lieberman must be in the power position and lime-light again…and again.I really think he likes to see himself in control and command with the power to become the most important person on Capital Hill….too bad that he does not look at the overall picture of healthcare reform…instead he uses his power to get what HE WANTS….
Posted by: perry | December 15, 2009, 9:23 am 9:23 am
These guys are just trying to pass anything to save face… what a shame and what an insult to the Americans they represent.
Posted by: Shane | December 15, 2009, 9:31 am 9:31 am
“We all stand shoulder to shoulder,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (delivering marching orders).
——–
Shoulder to shoulder? Well, many boxers in a clinch stand shoulder to shoulder….opposing each other in a stance that accomplishes little.
Posted by: malcat | December 15, 2009, 9:34 am 9:34 am
Lieberman is without a doubt a spineless, flip flop king- Paid off by the Insurance lobby to fight a position he himself favored 3 months ago (the Medicare buyin)——-Its time for Harry Reid — Jay Rockefeller and the rest of the Dems to use reconcilliation ( as the GOP did under Bush) and pass either a public option or a Medicare buy in– The GOP, and Judas Lieberman, are in the Pocket of the Insurance lobby, and will make this fail otherwise!!! Stand up Dems —- that’s why you were elected, on a real Health care reform platform– Just passing one without the public Option is cow towing To the Party of No!!!
Posted by: brian | December 15, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am
The GOP could not hope for a better present from the Democrats. A spending bill and new entitlement that is the mother of all spending. Great add on more debt and spending to a our trillions and trillions and trillions of debt.
Thats is TROUBLE with a captial T, right there in Capital City….for the Democrats at least.
Santa Pelosi is being kind to the GOP.
Posted by: scott jeffries | December 15, 2009, 9:44 am 9:44 am
public option is for the parasites of this country who suck off the rest of us.
Posted by: natale from mass. | December 15, 2009, 9:45 am 9:45 am
Already a traitor to the democratic party, Lieberman will not be content until he deprives non-wealthy Americans of health care. Way to go Connecticut! Dump this twisted, colossal egotist at the first available opportunity.
Posted by: Truth | December 15, 2009, 9:49 am 9:49 am
Mr. Klein,
I have an alternative read on the Lieberman business and honestly seek your opinion. Let’s assume that Reid gets an early heads up that the CBO scoring of his Medicare expansion idea is bad. He therefore knows that he will lose on cloture if this fact goes public. He therefore decides to orchestrate a Dem love fest during which he indicates a desire to value party unity over ideological purity by “dropping” the Medicare buy-in/public option. This gives the bill another 24 hours of legislative viability and leaves its fate in the hands of Pres. Obama where it should have been from the start!
Posted by: michael hogan | December 15, 2009, 9:50 am 9:50 am
Thank you Senator Lieberman!!! This bill is starting to look like actual REFORM and not a Democratic Welfare program. Health Insurance is a BUSINESS not a RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dumocrats put your hands back in your pocket and get your monetary priorities in order.
Posted by: HH | December 15, 2009, 9:53 am 9:53 am
brian— Your partisanship is showing. The GOP has nothing to do with this, which is what Reid and Pelosi wanted. The Dems control everything and can’t make a decision on anything. Look how long it took just for the decision on Afghanistan by the Prez. Quit blaming the GOP for the inaction of the Dems.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 15, 2009, 9:54 am 9:54 am
Parasites come in all forms…..republican and democrat.
Merry Christmas Natale.
Posted by: indymind | December 15, 2009, 9:54 am 9:54 am
So, ABC, could you do an updated story on what is actually IN the bill as it stands? What does it actually accomplish and why should ANYONE be for it if it isn’t doing anything? It looks to me like all it does is give the Dems a chance to posture about saying they passed landmark health care reform and they should be held accountable for it!
Posted by: Don | December 15, 2009, 9:55 am 9:55 am
“”"”"fate in the hands of Pres. Obama where it should have been from the start!”"”"
Posted by: michael hogan
Let’s see, a 66 page assessment on Afghanistan took Obama exactly 3 months to make a decision. This means a 2000 page health care bill will take about 2 1/2 years to make a decision! All jokes aside, this legislation does nothing to lower health care costs, which will continue to rise and the government subsidized insurance program will have to meet those rising costs. Focus on lowering cost of health care first, then worry about the premiums.
Posted by: lfrichar | December 15, 2009, 10:01 am 10:01 am
How can the Dems (Reid) let one man Leibermann (He is no better that Hitler) his actions will cause Hundreds of thousands to die because they cannot afford Health Care in the same way Hitler destroyed the JEWS! The hopes of Millions of Americans have been let down by Harry Reid because he has no Backbone to stand up against the GOP and Hitler.
Posted by: larkin1974 | December 15, 2009, 10:02 am 10:02 am
Relax people. Public option or Medicare buy-in will come in later on its own via reconciliation.
Winning a battle is a lot different from winning a war.
Posted by: New Wave | December 15, 2009, 10:03 am 10:03 am
The Obama administration is a social aberration. It is full of perverts, tax evaders, prior offenders, former terrorists.
Posted by: hawkey | December 15, 2009, 10:08 am 10:08 am
indymind sorry im neither one personally this country has become the country of hand outs everybody wants something no one today works hard for what they want in life anyone who can better themselves but why bother when goverment can give you everything you want my husband is self employed plumber and works very hard but it will be a cold day in hell before we take anything from goverment.
Posted by: natale from mass. | December 15, 2009, 10:10 am 10:10 am
The industry has donated $17.7 million in campaign contributions to the Senators taking part in the current debate, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Senator Lieberman has received $448,066 in campaign contributions from the health insurance industry during his time in Washington.
Posted by: LongT | December 15, 2009, 10:12 am 10:12 am
looks like mr. lieberman is laying the groundwork to run as independent for president in 2012.
Posted by: davidfrat21 | December 15, 2009, 10:14 am 10:14 am
larkin1974, for heaven’s sake, please study some history before making such absurd comparisons. hitler? really? that’s just ridiculous.
Posted by: davidfrat21 | December 15, 2009, 10:15 am 10:15 am
What’s the difference between the Mafia and a Hollywood Leftist? …the Mafia doesn’t go after your family. Posted by Big Hollywood. Huffpost posts a call to target Lieberman’s wife. How scary it is that if someone disagrees with this administration they are immediately attacked. Going after the family is beyond disgusting.
Posted by: wheresmymoney | December 15, 2009, 10:16 am 10:16 am
Dear Joe Lieberman, Thank you with all my heart for not negotiating with the evil policy that accept to spend for “ABORTION” with the taxes, blood money of American Citizens. I’ll vote and support for you as long as I live.
I am a resident in CT.
Posted by: Chances-CT | December 15, 2009, 10:21 am 10:21 am
Can you say one term president? There are a lot of angry democratic voters who feel betrayed.
Posted by: jan | December 15, 2009, 10:22 am 10:22 am
larkin1974 — Getting a little “dramatic” I would say. How will it cause “hundreds of thousands” to die again? Currently, tThose without insurance use our ER’s and you know they can’t be turned away right?
Posted by: lfrichar | December 15, 2009, 10:23 am 10:23 am
Remember when The Note told us in September there wouldn’t be a healthcare reform bill because the Republican Party so successfully used August to stir up public opinion against it?
If there is one thing I have learned in recent years is, don’t rely on the mainstream media for “news.” Apparently, real journalism died when Cronkite retired. If you want to know what’s involved in reforming healthcare, go to the NPR website.
Posted by: Amy in Maine | December 15, 2009, 10:35 am 10:35 am
From the beginning of discussion I’ve maintained there will be a health care reform bill passed but it will be an extremely watered down version of what the leftists envisioned. Fear not leftists. Your voices have been heard and you have control of our legislature. Change in government always occurs in baby steps. You’ll soon be taking your first step. Then you’ll have the opportunity to tweak the original version if your extremist ideas don’t cause you to loose control in 2010. It would be nice if the costs of medical care were addressed at some point. After all, isn’t that the issue at hand? Health care is unaffordable for many Americans. We can either transfer the liability of paying for health care to those who can’t afford it or we can attack the problem from a cost approach. Some will no doubt end up with free healthcare, but even those who can afford to buy insurance, meet deductibles, make co-payments for medical care are financially stressed by the current costs. Please legislators, do something about the reasons health care costs so much. Then move on to providing access to medical care for those who still don’t have the financial means to participate.
Posted by: mmonroeliveson | December 15, 2009, 10:37 am 10:37 am
70% of “real” Americans do not want passage of this Health Reform Bill. So Senator Lieberman is on the right side of history.
Posted by: Peter King | December 15, 2009, 10:39 am 10:39 am
This bill needs to go down in flames. Congrats to Liberman for trying to limit the damage. Perhaps this is a sign that we can hold off the socialist pukes until the adults get back in charge next fall.
Posted by: Racenut | December 15, 2009, 10:51 am 10:51 am
Joe, you give a precious gift to American who has concerned about a huge spending behavior of Obama.
GO SARAH PALIN/JOE LIBERMAN IN 2012.
Posted by: jamie-ny | December 15, 2009, 11:01 am 11:01 am
indymind – You said “They get their raises, Cadillac health care and wages for LIFE”.
I love folks who appear not to have a clue.
Contrary to what many believe Congressmen do not have FREE health insurance. Their employer is the federal government and like many employers, through FEHB it provides him and all federal employees with access to an insurance plan from a private insurance company (AETNA, Blue Cross, Health Net, Kaiser, etc). The federal government pays approximately 2/3 of the premium and the Congressman is responsible for the remaining portion of the premium. This is in line with many private companies who offer health insurance to their employees as part of their benefit program. Congressmen have been required to get their health insurance in this manner since passage of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1983. The Congressman is responsible for any co-pays or deductable payments when service is provided by a healthcare provider.
The Congressman is also susceptible to the limits within the plan he chooses, none of the plans cover 100% of the costs the insured eventually reaches a point where he has to dig into his own pockets. The governments only other involvement with the FEHB is to negotiate rates and benefits for each plan once a year. If you want to view the plans and their limits, deductibles, and co-pays just Google “FEHB” and go to the site and see what the different plans are. The FEHB health plans are either nationwide (plan available anywhere within the country) or regional (plan available only in one state or a portion of a state).
FEHB allows the Congressman to change between plans once a year during what is referred to as an open season and he can switch with no lapse in coverage due to pre-existing conditions and if he changes jobs within the Federal Government he can take his current plan with him if the plan is available (he moved from one region to another) at his new position, if not he can switch with no problems. One of the differences in the plan costs is the level of benefits provided and the amount the patient pays (co-pays or deductable) when receiving healthcare.
Now for Social Security for Congressmen. You probably are also of the belief that members of Congress do not participate in Social Security. Once again you would be wrong, federal government employees hired after 1984 and ALL members of Congress no matter when they were first elected are required to participate in Social Security. These same people also participate in the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) unless they were elected prior to 1984 in which case they use the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) which is where they receive their retirement benefits when they retire. Employees in the FERS program have Social Security (and Medicare) withheld from his check just like you do every pay period while those under CSRS only have Medicare withheld since they don’t get Social Security based on their federal employment. If a CSRS employee happened to work another job where he earned eligibility for Social Security then when he receives his Social Security payments his CSRS retirement is reduced.
Additionally they have an additional sum withheld which goes into the FERS retirement fund and if he chooses he can have an additional sum withheld and placed in the Thrift Savings Plan (TSP), The TSP operates similar to a 401k and has several funds which the employee can choose to have his money held in (many federal employees lost money when the economy collapsed as the TSP is mainly in stocks). The actual retirement for a Congressman is determined by a formula which looks at his salary for the highest three year period prior to retirement and then uses a formula which uses his age at retirement and number of years served. To achieve retirement the employee must have a minimum number of years (just like the rest of the world) and have a minimum number of years served (just like the rest of the world).
The starting retirement of a Congressman can be no greater than 80% of his salary at retirement and the level is increased relative to the CPI so it would take years to reach an amount equal to his final pay. In order for a Congressman to participation in the FEHB program when he leaves office he must first meet the requirement to retire which means age and service time come into play. According to the Congressional Research Service, 413 retired Members of Congress were receiving federal pensions based fully or in part on their congressional service as of Oct. 1, 2006. Of this number, 290 had retired under CSRS and were receiving an average annual pension of $60,972. A total of 123 Members had retired with service under both CSRS and FERS or with service under FERS only. Their average annual pension was $35,952 in 2006.
Once again if you want to learn more Google FERS and TSP which should get you to the proper pages on the internet, none of this is hidden data it is there for anyone to read. Hope this has educated you on what you appear to believe. If we were to have term limits for Congressmen; 2 terms (12 years) for Senators and 3 terms (6 years) for the House then the retirement payouts would not be that great for retired Congressmen and most of them would not be eligible to continue in the FEHB program. Interesting enough a proposed Constitutional amendment on term limits has been proposed and is beginning its rounds in Congress, just Google “COE09E33” to see the simple two page bill.
Hope this has educated you on what you appear to believe.
Posted by: Sandcrab1612 | December 15, 2009, 11:23 am 11:23 am
Amy in Maine; In response to your last post on yesterday’s note…Lack of oversight was to blame for the Great Depression and lack of oversight was to blame for our current financial crisis. Oversight should be given by the government to ensure unnecessary risks aren’t taken, that there is no fraudulent activity and that there is no graft occuring with the financial institutions. Instead of partnering with the private businesses of America, our legislature is now seeking to control private businesses and it’s not being well received by those who control the purse strings as the no lending no jobs situation attests. At the same time our government is urging everyone and every business to tighten their belts it is spending recklessly. Good leaders always lead by example. Double standards are distasteful.
Posted by: mmonroeliveson | December 15, 2009, 11:29 am 11:29 am
“We the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt-free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt ridden, delusional, and others. We hold these truths to be self evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim they require a Bill of NON-Rights.”
ARTICLE I: You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV, or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.
ARTICLE II: You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone — not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc; but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be.
ARTICLE III: You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.
ARTICLE IV: You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes ..
ARTICLE V: You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we’re just not interested in public health care.
ARTICLE VI: You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don’t be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.
ARTICLE VII: You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat, or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don’t be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won’t have the right to a big screen color TV or a life of leisure.
ARTICLE VIII: You do not have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful. (AMEN!)
ARTICLE IX: You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness, which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an over abundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.
ARTICLE X: This is an English speaking country. We don’t care where you are from, English is our language. Learn it or go back to wherever you came from! (Lastly….)
ARTICLE XI: You do not have the right to change our country’s history or heritage. This country was founded on the belief in one true God. And yet, you are given the freedom to believe in any religion, any faith, or no faith at all; with no fear of persecution. The phrase IN GOD WE TRUST is part of our heritage and history, and if you are uncomfortable with it, TOUGH!
Posted by: Sandcrab1612 | December 15, 2009, 11:34 am 11:34 am
RE:”How can the Dems (Reid) let one man Leibermann (He is no better that Hitler) his actions will cause Hundreds of thousands to die…..Jews….the GOP and Hitler.”
Wait a minute you commies are over in Copenhagen telling us the world cannot sustain its current population….wouldn’t letting a lot of you all die actually “save the planet”
There is a strange inconsistancy in your argument. Productive people generally can take care of their own needs…and nature doesn’t suffer weak specimens to live and procreate does she?
So are we protecting people or the planet today?
Posted by: SirGareth | December 15, 2009, 11:43 am 11:43 am
“public option is for the parasites of this country who suck off the rest of us.”********************************
I take it Natalie that you’re one of the lucky ones that have health care.
Posted by: Tinah | December 15, 2009, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm
So Leibermann would be the first on the blame line when this bill gets screwed up. I hope his lobbyist friends are paying him enough to lose his political career, and to foot the blame.
Posted by: Parma Hts. Gary | December 15, 2009, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm
He doesn’t care! It doesn’t effect his bottom line if others go without health care
Posted by: Parma Hts Gary | December 15, 2009, 12:36 pm 12:36 pm
LOL….. “Yay! Yippie!” … By taking out the MEDICARE Buy-In option, it now looks like this health care reform bill will contain not one single provision to control health care cost… thanks Lieberman and Republicans. Much appreciated.
So guess what America… now, we all get to just sit back and watch the annual increase of health care cost, averaging 8.78% per year for the past 10 years, continue to eat away at the nation’s federal budget, state budgets, corporate budgets, and family budgets… LOL … “Outstanding! America”
By the way, just in case you didn’t know… 10 years ago, because of annual 8.78% increase to health care cost, the federal government started spending more towards MEDICARE & MEDICAID combined, than we do for the Department of Defense (LMAO!). So, for almost 50 years, more of your tax dollar went to defense, and then, about 10 years ago, more of your tax dollar started going to the combined federal cost of MEDICARE & MEDICAID.
So now, again… we did nothing about this issue… and we can all sit and watch as more and more of the federal budget, state budgets, corporate budgets, and family budget get eaten away by that annual 8.78% increase in health care cost.
Hey, I’m military, and I have an outstanding “public” health care plan called “military health care”. I sure am glad that the rest of you fell for all those Republican “scare” tactics…. because it means that I get to continue enjoying a “public health care option” (military health care), which in my book is excellent… and you don’t…. LOL.
Great wisdom America, I applaud you!
Posted by: DaveVirginia | December 15, 2009, 12:55 pm 12:55 pm
Lieberman’s entire political career has always been about using whatever position he has to leverage as much political clout as he can get. He’s an egomaniac who needs to have people seeking him out and soliciting him. He knows now he’ll never be president and this is the best he can do. I knew Joe, the guy who ran for vp in 2000, and this Joe is not that person. He’s a prime example of how ambition can devour your soul.
Posted by: hopesprings52 | December 15, 2009, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm
What happened to real news? What are the details of the health care bill now that the Medicare option has been stripped out. That’s what I want to know. How many are covered. How will it be paid for? What will keep the health insurance companies and health care corporations from making billions, raising premiums, and excluding all but the healthy?
So what do you guys do? Prattle on about Sunday Show Joe Liberman. I don’t care about him except to see him out of the Senate and any public office as soon as possible.
What are the provisions of the bill? Will any media take the time to tell us?
Posted by: JAB | December 15, 2009, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm
obummer.
Posted by: ohbummerguy | December 15, 2009, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
Sandcrab 1612 I loved your post!
Posted by: Carol in Alabama | December 15, 2009, 3:47 pm 3:47 pm
Sen Lieberman is on the wrong side of history and is determined to keep the U.S. a third world country where health and medical are concerned. I know people who suffered for years until medicare kicked in so they could get treatment for something. They often had additional problems by the time they went to the doctor. At first I expect that costs will be higher but as the country as a whole becomes healthier by actually getting treatment when they’re sick, costs should drop. There will be a lot of politicians looking for jobs if health care reform fails.
Posted by: Buer | December 15, 2009, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm
Obama is just wanting something passed, anything so he can say I DID IT! He is that arrogant and self-absorbed. I really don’t like to pay for something I won’t get for 3-4 years! Instead of working on with thoughtfull consideration it’s rush rush through it. I hope he doesn’t give the o.k. again to pay off someone with another 300 million like he did with Mary Landrieu of Louisiana so they will vote. He has spent enough of our tax money. New figures on the news yesterday- For every Trillion borrowed it will cost US one BILLION A WEEK in interest! House just approved 447 Billion in Ominibus spending bill that includes 2.2 million for a failing golf course in San Fran. 54 Million Calif. wine train and on and on. Now millions will be spent on terrorist being brought here. Can we count that far? Gee, I think we need to change our votes in 2010 and 2012!
Posted by: Marsha Hunter | December 15, 2009, 4:19 pm 4:19 pm
Lieberman has made it so far. The Senate Dems seem to accept his direction.
It’s kow-towing to a narrow-minded, too long serving politician who has lost adhesion to his party. If Pelosi joins him she is discarding any public option or ‘half-option’ for young seniors. Instead, she would support a totally private option with a lot of fine print, vast restrictions, higher premiums and best of all subsidizing a flawed
insurance industry that is only interested in share holder value, and high bonuses for
the egg-heads who give a damn for ‘poor custumers’ they don’t really want.
Howard Dean ultimately made this clear. A bill without an public option is a package with no real
value – ‘a real collapse of health care reform (…)’.
But, Obama will sigh any bill that comes in final version on his, else his overall rating would slump from C- to F with his own people.
The left-wing Dems in the House should fight against Lieberman.
Give Joe a fare-well ‘kiss’ and tell him he should retire. A insurrance-orientated dinosaur ought to enjoy the rest of his remaining life at home
in front of his TV.
Posted by: Dave Sloughberger | December 15, 2009, 4:47 pm 4:47 pm
Lieberman may be the only person in DC that realizes that adding to the debt for healthcare is unsustainable as the debt of the federal government has increased by $7 Trillion dollars in the past 10 years. To continue adding to the debt for these ideas which sound good is irresponsible financial policy which has to stop before the entire amount of revenue collected by the federal government does nothing but pay the interest on the money they have borrowed over the past 75+ years
Posted by: Sandcrab1612 | December 15, 2009, 5:07 pm 5:07 pm
Of course, you know the old saying about an argument..once the name “Hitler” is thrown about the argument is over.
Next discussion.
Posted by: bill d | December 15, 2009, 10:53 pm 10:53 pm
One hundred and twenty-three (123) Legal American Citizens ARE DYING DAILY, AND WILL BE DYING each day because they DON’T HAVE Health Care Insurance. (And it’s NOT that they Don’t Want Health Care Insurance, either…)
Opponents of Health Care Reform in America are DOMESTIC TERRORISTS!!!
Posted by: bobj72 | December 15, 2009, 11:25 pm 11:25 pm
We all think there needs to be some kind of health care reform, but this is NOT it. If this were REALLY about helping health care, why wouldn’t they try small steps on the most obvious problems that everyone agrees on, like tort reform so mal-practice insurance isn’t so high,and allowing insurance across state lines. Regulating insurance companies that if someone has paid premiums for a period of time, they can’t drop you. They could make changes that will not cost Trillions or make Govt. in control of our lives. Americans need to let Congress know they need to start over with REAL reform, not some government control plan disguised as health care.
Posted by: Danner-usa | December 16, 2009, 8:46 am 8:46 am
So now we have learned that Obama is BUYING the Senate votes!! Look at Sen. Mary Landrieu who is holding her vote to get for aid for Louisiana!! WHAT!? You are now BUYING votes? I hope she looses her seat! So this is the only way Obama is going to get this horrible bill that will ruin our country passed, by threatening & buying votes…..I hope the citizens of this country are watching their representatives & kick them out next election! We have got a bunch of fruitcakes back there & they are destroying this great country with their stupidity!
Posted by: Godhelpusall! | December 16, 2009, 9:30 am 9:30 am
Where in the heck do they do these polls??? Every person that I ask if they support this Health Care bill say “No Way!” – so please tell me where they are finding these American people who want this HC bill?? Are the you even LISTENING to your employers….the American People?? The Democrats are only out for themselves! They think that they are the only ones who know what is good for the citizens of this great country & they are determined to destroy our country anyway they can. We have got a bunch of holier than thou people in the Senate & House & it is time the people of this country let them know who they represent & who really cares about what they are doing, WE THE PEOPLE!! Our forefathers are spinning in their graves! This is NOT THE AMERICA that they died for! Shame on you horrible, “me-me” Senators/House. come November next year, I hope you are all without a job….but then again, you have been able to screw over the American People & will get your benefits to keep screwing them over for the rest of your lives…..You have got to be so proud…NOT!!!
Posted by: Idaho Girl | December 16, 2009, 9:40 am 9:40 am
The Democratic aide said staffers have tried to keep Carper’s alternative quiet due to concerns that publicity could draw attacks from liberal activists, which could complicate efforts to line up support from the full Democratic caucus
Posted by: Acquisto Cialis | January 1, 2010, 7:57 am 7:57 am