President Obama Heralds as ‘Significant Progress’ Unpopular Compromise Health Care Bill, Non-Binding Climate Change Accord

Yes, he is a big liar, one of the biggest I have ever seen. This health care bill is just a massive transfer of wealth to insurance companies. The individual mandate will force us to buy private health insurance without any cost controls. If you can’t pay, you will be fined.
Obama just wants to sign any bill so that he can pretend that he’s successful. He doesn’t care about the impact this mess of a bill will have on the average American.
I hope this bill fails to pass!

“Fair enough, all politicians are liars and Obama is a liar.”
‘Nuff said.

Could someone please teach these clowns the difference between “progress” and “regression”?

tierra admits Obama is a liar and he’s the same as the rest. Now that’s support!

H.R.3590 is not all that you have described it to be. The 353-page document that the senate is reviewing does not have a lot about real Health Care.
It still contains things like:
1.Grants for small business to provide comprehensive workplace wellness programs: Why are we giving small business grants for workplace wellness programs? Take this out!
2.Availability of Medicare data for performance measurement: This should not cost taxpayers billions of dollars to implements. Take this out!
3.Awareness programs for young women on breast cancer awareness: This does not say anything about treatment. It only says breast cancer awareness. We all know about the little “pink pin” that all the people are now wearing. Take this out!
4.Minority Health Care specialty programs: Only minorities get this? Take this out!
5.Do not pass this bill!

I’m not a right winger. If you think only the right wing opposes being forced to buy private health insurance under IRS penalty, then you are sadly mistaken.
I hope this bill fails to pass!

I’m not a right winger.
Posted by: Karen | Dec 19, 2009 5:24:56 PM
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Karen this is not about you . . .
This is about the Republican right wingers who come on this site to blast the President regardless of the issue, or the rationale.
Exactly, the right wingers on here switch their story depending on which way the wind blows. No consistency.
Last week it was a ‘massive government take over’ that would put all insurance companies out of business . ..
This week it’s a “massive transfer of wealth to insurance companies.”
Doesn’t matter what the truth is – the idea is to attack.

The bill would “yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $132 billion” over the next decade, would raise taxes by $518.5 billion, and by 2019 would reduce by approximately 31 million the number of non-elderly Americans who are uninsured — “leaving about 23 million nonelderly residents uninsured (about one-third of whom would be unauthorized immigrants).”
______________________________________
Did I miss something? I thought the bill was going to cover everyone, or at least give everyone access to “affordable” insurance. So, what’s with the “leaving about 23 million nonelderly residents uninsured (about 1/3 of whom would be unauthorized immigrants”? 1/3 of 23 million is about 7.6 million. So who are the other nonelderly residents numbering over 15 million? And why is it going to be 2019 before these people are insured? Once again, the stats/facts/numbers, etc. just don’t make sense.
As far as the taxes are concerned, if you think you won’t be one of the millions who’s taxes are going up… think again.
And you folks might as well give up on tierra. She isn’t just “in the tank” for Obama, she’s swimming in the tank, diving in the tank, floating on a float in the tank, and so on and so on. It’s not that hard to realize the “right wing” are not the only ones bucking against the bill. There’s definitely a bi-partisan public anger over it. But, hey, who cares what the public wants, as long as Obama and his WH do something “historic”!!

You people who think Obama is a liberal are absolutely hilarious.

Last week it was a ‘massive government take over’ that would put all insurance companies out of business . ..
This week it’s a “massive transfer of wealth to insurance companies.”
_________________________________
People don’t know what they’re talking about . . . but it’s good they talk . .. i suppose.

President Obama trying to spin Copenhagen as any kind of a success is embarrassing. If he believes it himself, that’s bad enough. If he expects anyone else to believe it, he thinks we’re stupid.
He shouldn’t have gone. His advance team should have told him not to go. Instead he got stood up by the Chinese to the point he finally had to break into a meeting where Wen Jiabao was talking to other leaders. That makes our President look so weak, and he shouldn’t have subjected himself to that.
I’d feel sorry for him if he didn’t pretend it was a victory of some sort.

Could someone please teach these clowns the difference between “progress” and “regression”?
Posted by: Henry |
Progressive is to progess as transparency is to Congress.

Fair enough, all politicians are liars and Obama is a liar.
_____________________________________
I would go as far as saying almost everybody is a liar, over one thing or another.
It’s just that the Republicans framed Obama by attempting to stick him with the name ‘the messiah’ – thus setting him up so that anything less that perfection is unacceptable.
Clever tactic – but sleazy and cheap, dull and repetitive.

The right knows it’s a government takeover.
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Oh sure, and at the same time Obama is overseeing a massive transfer of wealth to Wall Street and the Health Insurance industry.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.

This takeover is going to collapse medicine as you know it.
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Make up your minds, is this a government take over OR selling out to private industry in the Health Insurance companies?

Tierra, what do you think it means when millions of people are forced to purchase private health insurance or get fined? Since when can the government coerce you to buy a private product?
The government forces us to buy private health insurance and in return the insurance companies donate to the government. The government and the corporations are merging.

True Hilliary’s supporters and many others did have Obama pegged…he is a corrupt communist with the brains an ant. Why isn’t he impeached already? He is a menance to the country.

he is a corrupt communist
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Is he a ‘corrupt communist’ or has he sold out to the private insurance companies?
Doesn’t seem to matter much to this crowd, as long as they’re calling him names.

“You people who think Obama is a liberal are absolutely hilarious.”
Yes, I think you’re right: He’s a socialist.
We know he really supports a “single-payer” system, but he can’t get it, so he’s going to go with some bizarre, unholy bill that’ll “change” something. This is what the people get for voting this guy into office. I just wish I had an opt-out provision.

I think if anything this wretched came remotely close to being considered during the early years of the Republic, the perpetrators would be assassinated for tyranny. Mandates, punitive taxes, and all sorts of other statist measures are in this thing through and through. I will never vote for any person who votes for this piece of junk ever again – not even for town garbage collector. It just so happens that all those people are members of the Democrat party – definitely not democratic, since the people clearly don’t like this.I’ll take “Will Vote for More Pork in My State” for $1000, Alex.

Tierra, the plans in other countries where everybody is covered are government run plans. That’s not what Obama’s plan is. He was against the public option and single payer.
Obama’s plan is private, but it uses the power of the government to force you to buy private health insurance.

Re: “Yes, controlling costs.”
No, the cost controls were taken out. We will be forced to buy private health insurance but there is nothing to stop health insurers from raising their prices. There is no competition.

Perhaps when Moody’s downgrades the US credit ranking, the New England Association of Schools and Colleges can take Harvard down a notch, as well.

When all is said and done, reality will intrude:
“According to the American Medical Association’s National Health Insurer Report Card for 2008, the government’s health plan, Medicare, denied medical claims at nearly double the average for private insurers: Medicare denied 6.85% of claims. The highest private insurance denier was Aetna @ 6.8%, followed by Anthem Blue Cross @ 3.44, with an average denial rate of medical claims by private insurers of 3.88%.”

Re: “Those plans would be privately owned, but operated on a nonprofit basis..”
Private health insurance companies do not do anything on a non-profit basis. They can raise your rates on the exchnage if a government regulator approves it. All they have to do is donate money to the regulator to have him raise the rates.
I understand that we need health reform, but this bill isn’t it.

From SFExaminer 12-10-09:
“It took the current administration less than a year to provoke a rating agency to warn that unless our government mends its profligate ways, it will lose the triple-A credit rating it has had since U.S. government debt was first assessed in 1917…
“A downgrade of the U.S. government’s credit would also make it difficult or impossible for pension funds, insurance companies and other institutions to buy U.S. bonds, driving interest rates still higher, and halting what anyhow promises to be a slow, drawn-out recovery in its tracks…”

Anyone who thinks that the so called “Healthcare” bill is actually about health is only fooling themselves. It is about gaining control of more of the US economy. The govt is the problem, more govt is not the answer. The dems don’t really care about the public option or abortion, they just want to get the bureacracy in place, then they can maniputlate it any way they want. If you want to live under a socialist system move to Europe, and leave the rest of us alone.

Posted by: The Audacity of Copenhagen | Dec 19, 2009 7:53:12 PM
You’ve already read how the debt of the United States has been alloted in terms of who and what caused it.
Suffice it to say that MOST of the U.S. debt is the result of Bush’s tax cuts, the 2 wars financed on debt, the seniors’ drug plans he financed on debt and the economic collapse that happened on his watch while he said ‘it’s just a rough patch’.

Obama OWNS the possible downgrade.
This is pretty clear:
“It took the CURRENT administration less than a year to provoke a rating agency to warn that unless our government mends its profligate ways, it will lose the triple-A credit rating it has had since U.S. government debt was first assessed in 1917…

And now you’re back to your old point about governments making people pay for health care insurance – it’s done in every other western industrialized nation, through mandatory taxes and supplemental payments.
It’s why their health care is less costly and more people are covered.
Posted by: tierra |
Willful ignorance.
Ask a Democrat why Americans will continue to pay much more for their drugs than the rest of the world.
Ask a Democrat who is going to do the research and development. One hospital in Houston (MD Anderson?) spends more on r&d than the entire country of Canada.
Ask a Democrat if they are going to do for health care what they have done for education.
Ask a Democrat why we can’t get any tort reform. (Howard Dean will answer.)

Re: “It’s why their health care is less costly and more people are covered.”
No, their health care is less costly because it’s government run.
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Yes, much money is saved because the point of health care insurance is not to make a profit – although many of those countries have a private insurance industry as well.
Costs are also lowered through economies of scale – when everybody is paying to carry the load, the costs are carried by more people and become less. That is very straight forward – you know that right?
Many other additional ways money is saved through everyone paying – including the lowered use of EXPENSIVE emergency hospital facilities for those without coverage, more preventative care, earlier treatment, etc.

Ask a Democrat if they are going to do for health care what they have done for education.
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Poor Republicans, despite being in power for Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II – years and years in power – they were unable to influence education. Poor things. Pathetic.

Earth was warmer, ‘ere man
Then Ice age, mass extinctions
Enjoy warmth, cold comes

Apparently there are two posters using Terry here, so I am changing to tj.

Foghorn:
The health insurance industry doesn’t produce anything or add value to anything. They are an expensive middle man, nothing more. It’s a racket. My sister worked for a health insurance company for ten years and I heard all the horror stories. When they pay out a claim, they call it “medical loss.”

re: “When everybody is paying, the per capita costs come down.”
What are you basing that on? LOLOL
More people being forced to pay in, coulped with no regulation of price, means more profits for the health insurance industry.
Why are you blindly believing what these polticians are saying? They have been lying all along.

Re: “Do you have health insurance?”
Yes.

Re: “Do you have health insurance?”
Yes.
Poted by: Karen |
Why?

Re: “Why?”
Because the way our current system is set up, I have to make payments to a corporation that acts as a middle man, and if I get really sick, I have to hope and pray that they pay for my treatment. Many hospitals won’t even bother with you if you don’t have insurance, even if you can pay cash.
If the government enforced anti-trust laws like they used to, it would probably increase competition and reduce prices. In that case, we probably wouldn’t even need a public option.
Capitalism works best when there are regulations, like we have had for the past 70 years. But now, the corporations are getting big enough to buy and control the government.

tierra,
In your journey towards the truth, remember the difference between “the facts” and “the spin”. The spin is that Mr. Obama achieved an “Unprecedented Breakthrough” in Copenhagen.
The facts are that it was neither a breakthrough, nor unprecedented.
The truth is that it was a somewhat alarming performance by our President on foreign shores. Sure the upper functionaries in many countries are perplexed and wondering what the future holds.

Why does Obama bow to some foreign leader everytime he goes overseas? It’s so embarrassing. American presidents don’t bow down like servants.

Even when the Senate bill passes, the House bill cannot be reconciled with it.
The two bills are matter and anti-matter, public option and no public option.
They will destroy each other when they meet.

Since part of the headline for this blog is “Non-Binding Climate Change Accord” is it fair to discuss C02 since it has been identified by the AGW alarmists as the chief culprit in Global Warming?
Yes I said Global Warming. Please don’t let the “true believers” change the topic to “Climate Change” to obfuscate the facts.
What is CO2 (Carbon Dioxide)? It is a colorless, odorless gas that makes up part of the Atmosphere.
Is CO2 a “greenhouse gas”? Yes. What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2? — Less than one percent.
What is the most significant ‘greenhouse gas”? Water vapor. What is the percentage of water vapor in the atmosphere? 20 to 60 percent.
Is the “greenhouse gas effect” of C02 completely swamped by water vapor? Yes.
What would happen if we could reduce the the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere from less than 1 percent to zero percent? All life as we know it would disappear.
Why? CO2 could be called the “gas of life” It is not just a “greenhouse gas”, it is a “life gas”. Plants take in C02 and expose it to sunlight and convert it to a wide variety of organic compounds which the plants use to grow. Non-plants (you and me) eat these compounds, either directly or through other animal intermediaries to maintain life. Atmospheric CO2 is the essential elements through which the energy of the sun is converted to life energy on earth.
What is the minimum level of C02 possible in the atmosphere to sustain life on earth? I don’t know, do you? Why are you trying to lower the level of atmospheric CO2 without an answer to this question?
The polar ice caps have been melting — on Mars, as well as on Earth. What could be causing this, since there are no SUV’s on Mars. Maybe there are other forces at work?
The climate scientists are not really scientists as much as computer modelers. These computer models have thousands of parameters. For 90 percent + of these parameters, the modelers have no way to determine the value or the effect. So they assume values and effects that produce “reasonable” outcomes. In other words the desired outcome influences the input…
Why do the rising temps occur as the same time as rising CO2 levels…. well just maybe rising temps result in times of improved affluence and activity. Concurrent trends are not proof of causality.
Bottom line — CO2 is not a pollutant — it is the quintessential “gas of life”.

Jake,
I saw the President on TV today when he delivered his talking points about the Senate bill and the global summit. The single biggest item that struck me was that he beat feet real fast out of the room as soon as he ended his prepared talking points. His “body language” in fleeing questions sure spoke volumes.
How long has it been since he allowed the American press to ask unrehearsed questions in a live, public setting?
The last I can recall was the press conference that was followed up by the beer summit to patch things up after the president answered the last press question with his admittedly uninformed opinion that the police officer had acted “stupidly” in arresting the prof at Harvard.
Has it really been that long? Since last July, is it? Seems like he has adopted a strategy now of “laying low” just as he did toward the end of his campaign last year in the last few months before the election.
Is it possible that he will try to keep a low profile (at least by denying any public press questioning) for all of the remaining three years of his term?
And that’s hunkey-dorey with the press??
And if so, why?

“The United States is on the doorstep of comprehensive health care reform. It’s a staggering achievement…but the under-appreciated thing that strikes me at the moment is that it never would have happened if the Republican Party had played its cards right… At the outset of this debate, moderate Democrats were desperate for a bipartisan bill. They were willing to do almost anything to get it, including negotiate fruitlessly for months on end. … But Republicans wouldn’t make that deal. The GOP leadership put immense pressure on all its members to withhold consent from any health care bill…. It was an audacious gamble. They lost. In the end, they’ll walk away with nothing.” (Jonathan Chait, TNR)
And, imho, that’s on them.
Let’s contrast that with Bernie Sanders who supports single payer, wanted a robust public option or an expanded Medicare buy-in, but despite disappointment has been quietly representing for his constituents. He proposed what his website calls “a comprehensive set of proposals that will assure not just insurance coverage, but will increase the number of health professionals and community health centers to enable all Americans to receive affordable medical, dental, and behavioral health services.” (See the Federally Qualified Community Health Center program and the National Health Service Corps.)
Press release: “A $10 billion investment in community health centers, expected to go to $14 billion when Congress completes work on health care reform legislation, was included in a final series of changes to the Senate bill unveiled today.”
The provision will provide primary care for 25 million more Americans and “the $14 billion in the bill that the House of Representatives approved on Nov. 7 would increase the number of centers from 20 million to 45 million over the next five years.The investment would more than pay for itself by saving Medicaid $23 billion over five years on reduced emergency room use and hospital costs, according to a study conducted by George Washington University.”

How can this bill work if it cuts Medicare when the Baby Boomer generation is now becoming eligible? What do we really get for 800 billion dollars? How can the creation of a huge entitlement program reduce the debt?These seem such elementary questions and yet there are no answers.Nobody wants this except the Senate democrats;I think that most House democrats will vote for it holding their noses.It is a terrible bill-even Howard Dean can see that.

Talk about progress in the climate change arena…
We got our “smart meter” the other day. SoCal is in a headlong rush to install these things. My son got his last month. What is a “smart meter”?
It is a new electric meter. Instead of having meter readers come out to the house once a month, the smart meter reports back to the electric company via digital link up. We have been assured that the meter readers are being cross trained so they will not find themselves out on the street looking for a job. I believe that, why don’t you?
The company tells us that in a few months we will be able to log in to a web site an view our daily electrical usage.
There are some things they are a little less forthcoming about. They can monitor your electric usage on a instantaneous basis. From that they can derive certain intelligence about you, like what time you get up in the morning, what time you leave home for work, what time you get home, what time you go to bed, etc. Of course they would never engage in this kind of statistical or personal intelligence gathering, would they?
More directly, instead of area by area “brown outs” in event of grid stress, they can issue personal brownouts to people they define as abusers of electric service.
It’s no longer a case of you consume a certain amount, you a pay a certain bill. Rather the nanny state can now reach in on moment to moment basis and dictate your use of electric power.
For those of you touting the smart grid, what you are touting is simply a means to control you directly and instanteously.
For me, I am now seriously considering installing solar. At least for the moment they can’t control my access to sunlight, although I am certain at a not to distant date, they will figure out how to tax it.

as much as you left wing nuts hate to mention it
_______________________________________
Actually it was the Republican president George Bush who said the Constitution was ‘just a piece of paper’ and who proceeded to treat it with about as much dignity.

In your journey towards the truth, remember the difference between “the facts” and “the spin”. The spin is that Mr. Obama achieved an “Unprecedented Breakthrough” in Copenhagen.
___________________________________
I have no problem with ‘unprecedented’ or ‘breakthrough’ – the weaknesses were noted by the President himself and covered by the media.
You’re just looking for yet another excuse to attack the President – nothing new there.

For those who are interested, The Times of London has a few good, objective, & actually hilarious accounts of what Obama REALLY did at this fiasco. Sad when you must read foreign newspapers to get American news.

Like the snowstorm which seems powerful and purposeful, when settled, covered roads, grass and trees with layered, white, beautiful snow, while underneath, it stopped traffic, causes accidents, becomes frozen and when melt, becomes muddy, Mr. Obama and his administration have been covered their tracks with snow and show.

Obama’s poll numbers will be skyrocketing soon.

While laughing at all those fools I will continue to emit CO2, and so will the yeast making my bread and beer. The cows and pigs that I eat are methane emitters, good for them. Speaking of….

Shoving two bills down the throats of Americans who do not want them. Just who is it these morons are representing?
Health care means far less for far more. Warming is a fraud.
If you didn’t know, you’d recognize at first glance that these are Democrat bills.

Omitted from the above is the reason this appears to cost less, and that it because we get to pay long before it goes into effect. If the cost is scaled properly with the years when it is in effect the true cost seen and it is HUGE.
And it will only get worse as Democrats add on entitlement after entitlement, which is all Democrats know how to do.

Regarding cost, there is no questioning that extending coverage in order to save lives and be decent to our fellow citizens and human beings, initially raises health-care spending. But if we want to insure tens of millions of uninsureds (the number has steadily increased throughout the time the Republicans held power), I personally think its worth it. The real question is whether the bills under consideration pay for those added costs and promise credibly to slow the long-term growth of health-care spending.
“The Congressional Budget Office has answered the first question: The House-passed bill and the one before the Senate would offset the spending necessary to extend coverage with other spending cuts and tax increases. These bills would reduce the deficit slightly over the first 10 years and more later.
[Robert J.]Samuelson disparages the budget cuts because Congress has not always enforced promised spending reductions. Congress has, however, repeatedly stuck with promised cuts in health-care spending — in 1990 and 1993 as part of budget deals that helped balance the budget in that decade, in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 and in the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005. Most of these cuts, like those proposed in the health-care bills, were gradual.”
Aaron goes on. Its a very good op-ed in the Washington Post. He points out that the health care reform legislation will “Tsimplify the administration of health insurance, support the study of which medical procedures work best, invest in preventive care, foster the creation of health-care organizations accountable for a broad range of services, bundle payments for in-patient and post-acute care, extend tests of “medical homes” that would organize primary-care delivery, penalize hospitals with excessive re-admission rates, reform the sale of insurance to individuals and small groups, and more”
Its easy to say no. Its easy to be contrary. But it doesn’t improve anything or get us anywhere.
My positive thoughts are with the Democratic senators. Thank you, senators, for working hard to get this done before you go home for Christmas.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 26% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-one percent (41%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -15.

If enacted, this plan doesn’t really go into full effect until 2014. We have the names of “the 60 senators” and should (if we do our job) have them ALL out of office by then!
Why doesn’t it go into full swing until 2014? Two main reasons:
1) They hope we will forget and not vote them out in the next three elections.
2) It gives them plenty of time to tinker with it, which will run the cost up beyond the “clever math” estimate.

33 percent of likely voters favor a health care bill that does not include a public health insurance option and does not expand Medicare, but does require all Americans to get health insurance. Slightly more Democrats — 37 percent — favor the idea, while only 30 percent of Republicans and 31 percent of independents do.
Meanwhile, if the public option and Medicare buy-in are added, 58 percent of people support the idea. The number of Republican supporters drops to 22 percent, but independent support rises to 57 percent and Democratic support to a whopping 88 percent.

“I try to avoid hyperbole, but I think Obama is possibly the most dangerous and destructive president we have ever had.”—Civil Libertarian Nat Hentoff
In the same interview, Hentoff goes on to describe Obama as “much worse” than George W. Bush.

A fully funded, national, comprehensive, single-payer health care system would cost less than the annual subsidy enjoyed by red states that is extracted from the blue states.

The Politico:
The outrage among some of America’s most vocal liberals at President Barack Obama’s failure to expand government-run health care caps a year of disappointments for Obama’s allies on the left and raises worrying questions for Democrats in the 2010 midterm elections.”
Personally, I think the 2010 midterm elections are going to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

I’m not sure which is a bigger hoax.
Al Gore and the whole global warming thing.
Or Barack Obama claiming to be a president for all people, and a different kind of politician.
Both use scare tactics to make themselves and their rich friends richer–while soaking taxpayers.

Overall, 46% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance. Fifty-three percent (53%) now disapprove.

Personally, I think the 2010 midterm elections are going to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Dec 20, 2009 10:58:47 AM
I think the mid-terms should be interesting, too. A lot of progressives became energized by opposing Bush. Now, many are energized again, and I think that helps our chances of getting more progressives in Congress. Jane Hamsher pointed out this week that many of the things tea party types and progressives are saying are the same or similar—and while I disagree with that (different ultimate aims; but then again Nate Silver has an interesting array of quote up under the header, “Can’t tell the Conservatives and Liberals apart without a program”) and I’m not in the same more-populist ranks (I’m more of the pragmatist camp that accepts compromises to move forward and then keeps on working to move toward the results I want to see), I actually think that can be used to elect more progressives and move a great agenda forward. Its not like Republicans are becoming any more popular, or they have good candidates waiting in the wings. I’m hoping there will be more true progressives and independents voted in, rather than right-winking ideologues or naysayers who refuse to do their job–legislate!
There was an interesting article at TNR called The Republican Health Care Blunder by Jonathan Chait, that comments on how the Republicans will likely end up with nothing for failing to do their jobs. Chait writes,
“When you’ve turned the somnolent, relentlessly centrist Indiana Senator into a raging partisan, you’ve really done something. The Republicans eschewed a halfway compromise and put all their chips on an all or nothing campaign to defeat health care and Obama’s presidency. It was an audacious gamble. They lost. In the end, they’ll walk away with nothing. The Republicans may gain some more seats in 2010 by their total obstruction, but the substantive policy defeat they’ve been dealt will last for decades.”

This is Harry Reid’s swan song.The bill stinks, his bribe to Nelson stinks,the projected cost based on pie-in-the-sky assumptions stinks, the Medicare cuts stink.Reid doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting re-elected and this is his legacy bill (or maybe revenge on the country).

Also, since there seems to be a lot of disinformation floating around about the bills and Senator Reid’s manager’s amendment, a couple of points. When polled people tend to like a lot of protections and reforms included in either House or Senate bill as described, even though they say they don’t like Obama Care. The public option is an example. For me, the public option was never the make or break, particularly as it was watered down—the national insurance exchanges, expansion of coverage, and many of the insurance reforms were more important to me. Anyway, Timothy Jost at Health Affairs walks through the amendment if anyone actually wants to know what’s in it.
In addition, David Axelrod made it very clear that President Obama still strongly supports reimportation of drugs.
In the long run, health care reform and many of the green initiatives put into play through ARRA will be very popular. But for 2010, most folks will be looking at jobs and economic recovery

Re: “In addition, David Axelrod made it very clear that President Obama still strongly supports reimportation of drugs.”
Get real. Senator Dorgan says that the White House worked behind the scenes to eliminate the imporation of drugs under some bogus claim that importing drugs from Canada is unsafe. Only a fool would believe anything out of Obama’s or Axelrod’s mouth at this point.

“Reid doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting re-elected…”
Looking forward to donating to whomever wins the Republican primary.

tjp,
I’m looking forward to donating to whoever wins the Dem primary. It sure won’t be Reid.

“Ever since President Obama and the Democrats came into office in January, the Republicans have been crying ‘wolf’ and declaring the Democrats politically finished.”
That statement is ate up with dumbness.

PolitiFact’s Lie of the Year: ‘Death panels’
The editors of fact-checking arm of the St. Petersburg Times have voted “Death Panels” the biggest lie of the year.
Remember when you right wingers were parroting the evil Death Panels on here as a way to try to smear the Democrats and health care?
Sad heh? When a lie becomes a major point in the right wing Republican’s campaign to discredit the Democrats.
The truth doesn’t matter, it’s the smear that counts.

Progressives can’t carry an election without Independents and they have lost them steadily since Obama took office. The midterms are going to be very interesting indeed.

“Quit whining . . . the party of ‘no’ strikes again.”
Petulant children often require establishment of boundaries by grown-ups.

=========================
Everything for hims is “significant” and “unprecedented” just like the wonderful “hope” and “change” that has never materialized.
v

Doesn’t matter what the President does, they’ll belittle and attack him over anything.
That’s why its so easy to see through your agenda.
Posted by: tierra |
Doesn’t matter what the President does, you’ll praise and defend him over anything.

To those who are concerned about the health care and cap and trade….not to worry! A lot of this will go away after the midterm elections and the 2012 elections! The health care bill will not take effect until 2013 (even tho taxes will be taken from you immediately) these bills can be repealed! The American people will have the last word and Congress will go down along with the “stealing from taxpyers” bills~~

Michelle Malkin has a great follow up to Part I of the Demcare bribe list (the Thanksgiving cloture vote). Part II includes what was promised to Ben Nelson, Chris Dodd, Carl Levin, Tom Harkin, Bernie Sanders and many, many more.
“Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother,” warned President Obama.
Wasn’t former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich indicted for this kind of deal making?
Any follow up on the break-in of Blago’s lawyers’ office?

Let’s see government runs the auto industry, banking, now health care. Yep smells like socialism to me. The health care starts in 2013 but they will start taxing EVEYONE as soon as they can. I suggest everyone buy private health care insurance stock now that you will be manadated to have it you might as well make some money. HOPE & CHANGE!