Cadillac Crossover: Will Big Labor Swallow Its Pride on Health Care?
Email By Rick Klein So who delivered the week’s biggest surprise — Sarah Palin, Mark McGwire, Harry Reid, or Harold Ford? OK, maybe we need a category of things we haven’t been expecting. For starters — what if Big Labor doesn’t roll over like everyone’s assumed? With the House back in town Tuesday — and a key Democratic caucus meeting to check in on health care Tuesday night — there’s a deal pretty much on the table, and health care reform stands on the verge of passing. Yet President Obama is again having some troubles with his allies. And if the House needed an edge in end-stage talks with the Senate — let’s just say Sen. Reid has had weeks where his political sway was a little greater. As the odd silence emanating out of the White House after Monday’s meeting with labor leaders indicates, selling the Cadillac tax is a tough one for the president. (Any time your own words get quoted back to you in the opposite direction, it’s hardly comfortable.) Big Labor does want a health care bill to pass; the key will be finding something they can declare victory on with their members. Then they just have to pay for their tweaks — and make those tweaks big enough to explain the reversal — and you’ve got a bill. “President Obama told union leaders at a private White House meeting on Monday that he remained committed to taxing high-cost insurance policies as a way to drive down health costs. But he also signaled that he was willing to amend the proposal to ‘make this work for working families,’ a senior administration official said,” Sheryl Gay Stolberg and Steven Greenhouse report in The New York Times. “Until now, Mr. Obama has taken a relatively hands-off approach to the specifics of the health care bill, instead leaving them to Congress. But last week, in a meeting with House leaders, he made clear his support for the excise tax, which many economists regard as an important way to bring down health care costs. … In delving into the nitty-gritty of health care negotiations for the first time, Mr. Obama risks alienating members of the labor movement, who worked hard to elect him.” Cue Harold A. Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters:
“The core political principle of this union is ‘we support those who support us.’ If candidates make a promise to us, we hold them accountable. … If President Obama continues to support it and signs a bill that includes the excise tax on workers, we will hold him accountable.” AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka: “Politicians who think that working people have it too good — too much health care, too much Social Security and Medicare, too much power on the job — are inviting a repeat of 1994.” Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn.: “It is hanging by a thread, obviously. One or two votes could determine the outcome of this bill despite all the efforts over the last number of years,” Dodd said on CNBC, per ABC’s Z. Byron Wolf. But Trumka (and others) are pulling their final punches: “Trumka stopped short of his September threat that the AFL-CIO might not support the final bill — after all, he said, labor has been seeking health-care reform for decades. But individual members could sit on their hands,” Alec MacGillis writes in The Washington Post. Still clear where it’s going: “A compromise may be in the offing. Democratic negotiators are exploring a possibility that would not eliminate the tax entirely, but raise the threshold at which it applies in order to ensure that more middle-income Americans are spared,” the Los Angeles Times’ Peter Nicholas reports. A bad sign that nobody’s saying much? “The two polite, say-nothing statements [from the White House and the AFL-CIO] suggest no agreement is in sight, especially since the Democratic leadership contends that the Cadillac tax is necessary to help pay for health care reform without adding to an already bloated federal deficit,” the New York Daily News’ Ken Bazinet writes. Still waiting on a date… “Despite the fact that the two houses are expediting the process by bypassing a traditional conference committee to resolve their differences, it appears increasingly unlikely that Obama will see a final bill passed by both houses this month as he had hoped,” Time’s Karen Tumulty reports. “That is not just because of the difficulty in reaching a deal, but also because anything that is proposed must be scored by the Congressional Budget Office for its impact on the deficit, a process that could take nearly two weeks.” Looking at the next step: “Then we have to go out and sell it,” White House senior adviser David Axelrod tells National Journal’s Ron Brownstein. “I think we can run on this. I think there is so much in here that has value to every American, and mostly to people who have insurance.” Before we get there: “Democrats on both sides of the Capitol don’t expect to make much progress on formulating their offensive until they finish last year’s business,” Roll Call’s Tory Newmyer and Emily Pierce report. It helps if your Senate majority leader can focus on governing. “I could have used a better choice of words,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Monday. (And his choice to go to the cameras with some words early in the life of this controversy may help him weather it.) Forgiveness: “He apologized, recognizing that he didn’t use appropriate language, but there was nothing mean-spirited in what he had to say, and he’s always been on the right side of the issues,” President Obama told Roland Martin, per ABC’s Sunlen Miller. Maybe not so much: “[Sen. Russ] Feingold said he hasn’t decided whether Reid should resign his leadership role yet. The Wisconsin senator characterized Reid’s comments as ‘unfortunate and racially insensitive,’ ” per ABC affiliate WISN, in Milwaukee. Feingold, D-Wis.: “I’m thinking about that and we’re going to be getting together as a caucus next week and the topic will come up. I have not decided whether these comments merit that or not. They’re very unfortunate. They should have never been said. So, I need to think about it.” Backing — from Sen. Tom Coburn? “It pains me that Republicans are saying Harry Reid ought to step down. When you point a finger, you have four fingers pointing back at you,” Coburn, R-Okla., said Monday, per Politico’s Manu Raju. Is truth a defense? “Reid’s comments have prompted another discussion, one that is focused on what Reid actually said, rather than the politics — was the senator right?” ABC’s Jake Tapper and Karen Travers write. “Many prominent African Americans who spoke to ABC News today were offended by Reid’s use of the word ‘Negro.’ But they also said his observation was true — that Americans in general find lighter-skinned African Americans more socially acceptable than those with darker skin, especially if they speak eloquently.” Jeff Zeleny, in The New York Times: “The comment — made to the authors of a new book on the presidential campaign — is not so different from remarks Mr. Obama has made himself while navigating the complicated intersection of race and politics in America during his rapid rise to the White House.” President Obama spends the morning in Delaware, where he’ll attend the funeral of Vice President Joe Biden’s mother, Jean Biden. Then it’s private meetings back at the White House. A step ahead of the outrage — with banking executives to the Hill on Wednesday, talk of a special tax on banks as they prepare for bonus season: “The White House is baring its knuckles,” ABC’s Claire Shipman reported on “Good Morning America” Tuesday. “President Obama will try to recoup for taxpayers as much as $120 billion of the money spent to bail out the financial system, most likely through a tax on large banks, administration and Congressional officials said Monday,” Jackie Calmes reports in The New York Times. “The general idea is to devise a levy that would help reduce the budget deficit, which is now at a level not seen since World War II, and would also discourage the kinds of excessive risk-taking among financial institutions that led to a near collapse of Wall Street in 2008.” “The White House hopes the fee will soothe the public’s anger at financial firms,” The Wall Street Journals’ Deborah Solomon and Damian Paletta report. “Most big banks that received public funds have repaid the government, but the industry is seen by many as having survived thanks to taxpayer support, and is now enjoying a profit rebound as the economy struggles. This month, many large banks will resume paying big bonuses to employees.” On your Tuesday lineup — US Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Thomas J. Donohue delivers his annual State of American Business Address, at 9 am ET, with five policy initiatives for job creation. Per excerpts provided to The Note, Donohue plans to say: “At the outset of this New Year, there are some encouraging signs that the state of American business is improving. Yet while there has been some improvement, we must add another word when describing the state of American business today — and that word is ‘uncertainty.’ ” In New York — Harold Ford Jr. makes it official (sort of): “It’s true: I am strongly considering running for the United States Senate,” Ford writes in a New York Post op-ed. Plus: “I moved to New York more than three years ago, have been a New York resident for more than a year and am a registered voter in New York City. My wife and I both work in Manhattan, proudly call lower Manhattan home and plan to start and raise a family in New York. I am pro-choice — have always been since I entered politics almost 15 years ago. My cumulative grade with NARAL during 10 years in Congress was right at 80 percent. Any assertions to the contrary are false.” In Massachusetts — the final Senate debate is in the books: “Meeting for their final debate of the US Senate campaign, Republican Scott Brown and Democrat Martha Coakley tried to capitalize on voters’ fears last night, with Brown raising the specter of another terrorist attack and Coakley warning about a return to Bush-era economic policies,” Matt Viser and Andrea Estes write in The Boston Globe. And as soon as the debate was over — look who went negative first: “Who is Scott Brown really? A Republican in lockstep with Washington Republicans,” Coakley’s ad, paid for my the Massachusetts Democratic Party, warns. “In times like these, we can’t afford a Republican like Scott Brown.” Complete with dark images of former President Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney — and a cameo from Rush Limbaugh — the ad really runs against the Republican Party. Why there’s some worry … will a close second count for something? “The GOP admits to the uphill nature of the race in heavily Democratic Massachusetts but believes that state Sen. Scott Brown’s got a good shot at winning. More important, they note, a valiant, close loss counts as a win because it will be a sign of deep discontent with Democratic policies even in a blue-state citadel,” Politico’s Alex Isenstadt and Jonathan Martin report. The AP’s Glen Johnson and Liz Sidoti: “A once-pedestrian contest between Democrat Martha Coakley and Republican Scott Brown has coarsened with a week to go, as the two have cast themselves as custodians of the pivotal Senate vote to determine the [health care] bill’s fate.” Roiling the swamp, in Florida: “Among the many indignities Charlie Crist has faced over last several rocky months, this one hit home,” Adam C. Smith writes for the St. Petersburg Times. “Republican party activists in his own county of Pinellas, many of whom have been campaigning alongside Crist for years, on Monday overwhelmingly declared that they prefer Marco Rubio for U.S. Senate. The 106-54 ‘straw poll’ vote is officially meaningless, but a giant symbolic blow for Crist.” Sarah Palin, pundit — jumping in right away, with an appearance on “The O’Reilly Factor” Tuesday night: “Under the multiyear deal, Palin will appear on a variety of Fox News shows, including its business network. She also will host occasional episodes of a series that will spotlight the inspirational stories of people across the USA. No financial details of the agreement were released,” per USA Today. Less likely to play in 2012? Per ABC News: “Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is taking what appears to be a step away from elected office in accepting a new role as a Fox News contributor.” The Kicker: “It’s wonderful to be part of a place that so values fair and balanced news.” — Sarah Palin, going you-know-where. “I would say that I thought the comments not only were reprehensible, but it’s amazing to think to print a whole book that so many people saw and nobody noticed that this ill-chosen remark was in the book? Didn’t anybody read the book before they put it out? I find it kind of shocking.” — Gov. David Paterson, D-N.Y., maybe not entirely clear on what he was condemning.
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/
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Dems would be better served by shelving the bickering and actually selling health care to the public. They can’t win in November with just 40% of the country backing reform.
Posted by: matt | January 12, 2010, 8:34 am 8:34 am
This health care bill is legalised extortion. We should be going single payer and getting rid of the phony baloney health care insurance market. The country would be better off without it and we already pay more than enough in taxes to cover the cost of health care. No country that has a single payer system would give it up. We pay more for health care than any other nation on the planet and it’s rated 37Th.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 8:54 am 8:54 am
This current health care bill has been turned into garbage by the republicrats and republicans. I would rather it fail and the democrats run single payer candidates.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 8:57 am 8:57 am
Since the membership won’t get to vote either way, Obama will offer the big cheeses some type of federally funded payoff and they’ll roll.
Posted by: wantingbalance | January 12, 2010, 9:04 am 9:04 am
The sad part is that most of the rank and file members of the unions will not even get a chance to vote which way or which side the union takes. They could watch on Cspan – oh I forgot – that wasn’t the truth.
Posted by: jamescbuilder | January 12, 2010, 9:11 am 9:11 am
This Cadillac tax is more than just breaking a promise. It has the potential to knock the economy right back in the hole. This economy is dependent not only on the union vote, but the middle class dollar. Right now with more of it going back into our gas tanks, and eventually all the things affected by that, this will just place our dollars into the hands of the IRS, or the medical community. There are a lot of people at the top who have to start evening things out. That is the over $250,000 dollar bunch, the president originally talked about taxing.
Posted by: Gary | January 12, 2010, 9:22 am 9:22 am
rightbehind; do you pay any taxes? Just curious. If you don’t I have to assume you don’t.
Posted by: LongT | January 12, 2010, 9:22 am 9:22 am
A real dilemma for Obama. On the one hand he has to appear like he kisses no one’s butt, and on the other, he has to kiss butt.
Posted by: LongT | January 12, 2010, 9:26 am 9:26 am
Does it really matter? This bill is protectionism for the insurance companies, the people who make huge profits from rationing health care and denying services to those who need them.
Posted by: Big Trees | January 12, 2010, 9:26 am 9:26 am
Kudos to Rick Klein for writing a surprisingly substantive Note.
Will unions accept a tax on high end health insurance policies? That’s a meaty issue. Nice to see the debate moving towards what has to happen for healthcare reform to pass. This impacts all of us out there in real-land.
Posted by: Amy in Maine | January 12, 2010, 9:28 am 9:28 am
Did it ever occur to this administration
that some of the mosts expensive insurance (thus the most taxable) belongs to the sickest people ? What
started as reasonable rates keep
going up because claims have gone in
to cover medical conditions . So now
in addition to expensive premiums, the
government is going to penalize me in
the form of a tax. How is all of this
a good thing. They need to scrap this
pig of a plan and start all over.
Posted by: wis134 | January 12, 2010, 9:33 am 9:33 am
This Health Care Tax is outrageous. I am 65 yo retired widowed female who had worked since 1979 as a Diabetic Care Manager. Yes, I stayed with the same organization becuase they provided best Health Care Benefits. My prudent retirement planning factored in the cost factor of money I saved by being provided with health care benefits for the rest of my life. My friends who just became eligible for medicare itemized all cost, increase visit costs for normal visits seen, increase costs medicines and changing some meds to obtain cheapest & factoring donut hole costs, supplemental insurance, standard Medicare cost of approximately $100, extended care costs, etc. The total yearly costs for the two of them came to approximately $18,000. They were shocked!
I am now on limited income. Any Health Care Tax for my benefits would cause financial issues for me. I worked very hard for years prudently planning for my retirement years and getting these helath care benefits.
Please do not tax these bbenefits.
Posted by: Sharon | January 12, 2010, 9:41 am 9:41 am
The House Health Care Reform was a lot better with the Public Option. Because with the Public Option we would Not be having this discussion. Everything was crystal clear. Now because the Republicans in Senate cared more about Destroying the Health Care Reform and destroying the Public Option for the Insurance companies that paid them millions in dollars to do the bidding for Insurance companies. And so the Republicans cared little if at all for the American people.
Posted by: Angie | January 12, 2010, 9:57 am 9:57 am
The House Bill – Health Care Reform with the Public Option — was way better. And so it was a mistake for Senate Democrats to follow Senate Republicans, (Republicans were paid millions dollars by insurance companies each to destroy the health bill)instead of keeping the House Bill with the Public Option when it reached the Senate, they helped to destroy it.
Posted by: Angie | January 12, 2010, 10:02 am 10:02 am
Well that’s BIG of Pres.Wall Street to try and “make this work for working families”….What did you say during the campaign Pres. Wall Street? NO TAX on the middle class. Your lies and broken campaign promises are astounding. Labor needs to abandon Obama..period. Actions speak louder than words..hope Trumka and others don’t lose sight of that.
Posted by: mackie | January 12, 2010, 10:10 am 10:10 am
Right Behind–you really think a single payer system run by govt. employees is the way to go? Name some good examples of govt. run anything that is efficient, fair, and effective.
We should be focusing on fixing what we have. Start with elimenating waste, then portability, then not getting your insurance cancelled when you get sick. Also, we need tort reform, and we must address pre-existing conditions, and let us buy insurance from any company we choose.
These changes should be tried in test markets acroos the country over a period of time and tracked to see if they will work. The current changes being proposed, we have no idea how much they will actually cost and whether or not they will work.
I am in favor of “change that wiil work”.
Posted by: tony f | January 12, 2010, 10:16 am 10:16 am
Labor has fought hard, for years to obtain top benefits for its members. Labor is not going to stand for heavy taxation of those benefits, and if Obama crosses big labor, it will hurt him badly in 2012.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | January 12, 2010, 10:17 am 10:17 am
rightbehind; do you pay any taxes? Just curious. If you don’t I have to assume you don’t.
Posted by: LongT
Got news for you. I probably pay more in taxes than most who post on these boards including you. I just recognise waste and fraud when I see it. The health care insurance market is a phony baloney market the country would be better of without. Other countries were smart enough to go single payer. I want my tax dollars to go farther. I want single payer health care.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 10:22 am 10:22 am
I think the Bigger problem here is the lack of revenue the Govt. doesn’t get under the current unfair income tax system!!! Currently only about 43% pay taxes while the other 57% pay nothing– being either too poor or wealthy enough to circumvent the system!!! Also our trade deficit is causing the Country to bleed cash !!! Offshoring is another problem– I believe there is plenty of money for the Spendocrats in both parties – if we could just get what we are losing— I believe Income tax should be scrapped for a VAT or Consumption tax– say 10% on all products and services sold in or into the States With a 10% fee for companies offshored!! Then we might have plenty of Cash to pay all the Govt Programs and more!!! Wouldn’t it be fairer to charge everybody the same %— If you make 10,000 you pay a thousand if you make 10 million you pay a million!!!
Posted by: brian | January 12, 2010, 10:26 am 10:26 am
(Republicans were paid millions dollars by insurance companies each to destroy the health bill)instead of keeping the House Bill with the Public Option when it reached the Senate, they helped to destroy it.
posted by Angie at 10:02a
————
Were you aware that the Senator receiving the most campaign dollars (2003-20009) from HMOs and health insurers was Max Baucus-Democrat?
Two other Democrats appear in the top 10 for that time period along with Lieberman-I and 6 Republicans. A Republican received the least of the top 10.
I wonder who pops up below the top 10? Now we know why health insurers remain protected in the Senate.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 10:27 am 10:27 am
Now that the health care bill looks as though it’s going to fail the leaches are dumping their stock. They were counting on legalised extortion for the health care insurance companies. It’s funny to watch. When it looks like it’s going to pass the stock market rises. When it looks like it’s going to fail they dump the stock. Any guess on how they plan to produce dividends? Highly doubt it will favor the patient. Economic cannibalism. Wallstreet has turned us into a nation that feeds upon itself.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 10:29 am 10:29 am
Oh, dont worry, big labor rolls for cash! I was a member of the Teamsters union with two different jobs, and i can tell you it was normal for the union to allow UPS to break the contract at will. Teamsters would then abandon the office and the telephones and the union stewards couldnt even find anyone to complain to. Big labor is all about themselves, and Obama knows how to play their game. He loves the ol’ “cash under the table” game. Sadly, its our cash :(
Posted by: Gerry | January 12, 2010, 10:31 am 10:31 am
rightbehind; You might pay more taxes now because I’m retired, but I would bet that I have during my career paid much more. I would like to know how old you are, but that’s not necessary. The problem with single payer is it takes away free choice for someone who would rather not depend solely on the government (a very valid point of view), and with single payer for everyone, there’s no going back. Very scary. I don’t blame you for hating the insurance companies. I do too. But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Think about it.
Posted by: LongT | January 12, 2010, 10:34 am 10:34 am
RightBehind, I believe a singer-payer plan would have many benefits but significant drawbacks also.
Just look at Medicare. Most people believe the program is run by the government. Although laws are passed by Congress, and CMS broadly interprets those laws into regulations, CMS’s actual day-to-day function is oversight only. The Medicare Program is administered by private contractors. Many of them are the health insurers you love to hate or wholly-owned subsidiaries. WellPoint (aka Anthem) is one of the biggest in the business. I know because I worked for their Medicare subsidiary for over 17 years.
The sheer logistics of designing, planning, and creating the physical infrastructure and staffing of a single-payer without using private contractors would be a MASSIVE undertaking involving years to get it right, heck to get it up and running at all.
Along with sheer politics, that reality is why the Senate switched from public option to government-designed plans sold by private insurers.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 10:45 am 10:45 am
I don’t get how slapping a 40% tax on “Cadillac” plans is supposed to bring down the cost of health insurance for the average person. A tax that high is just going to kill sales of Cadillac plans (which means it won’t serve as much of a revenue source, either). How does eliminating Cadillac plans reduce the cost of MY family’s health plan?
It all seems like smoke and mirrors. Say the gov’t wanted to reduce the cost of new cars because a lot of Americans couldn’t afford them. Would the gov’t then slap a 40% tax on REAL Cadillacs? How would that make new cars in general more affordable? At best, it would kill sales of Cadillac automobiles, which may allow you to say, afterward, that the government “cut the AVERAGE price of a new car.” Umm, yes, but not in a way that actually helped anyone who needed help.
Posted by: Conrad | January 12, 2010, 10:46 am 10:46 am
LongT; Old enough to have voted for ronald reagan. Big mistake! I’m also smart enough to know that freedom is “not” having to line the pockets of a health care ceo. The house less than 300 feet behind me sold for 1.2 million dollars. Doctor moved out because he couldn’t afford it. Single payer. I like the thought that I could walk into any doctors office across the United States and never worry about seeing a bill. You must think that being able to see your “in network” doctor is freedom. Sad that you would rather cling to a lie.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 10:47 am 10:47 am
Of coarse they will cave, they want to stay in good with the democratic party for future back room deals, they could care less about their rank & file. I only hope the rank & file see whats going on !!!
Posted by: hkdakota | January 12, 2010, 10:51 am 10:51 am
I like the thought that I could walk into any doctors office across the United States and never worry about seeing a bill. You must think that being able to see your “in network” doctor is freedom. Sad that you would rather cling to a lie.
—————-
Rightbehind, do I understand that you don’t just want single-payer, you want no cost-burden on the patient at all?
By removing all cost to the patient, there will be massive overutilization. I now work for a Medicaid contractor. My state implemented tiny co-pay amounts ($1-$2) for some member populations for certain services. Utilization dropped for services requiring co-pay.
Health care costs for any insurance payer requiring government dollars (including single payer) without some cost-sharing by the consumer would bankrupt this country, plunge it into 3rd-world credit status, and jeopardize every American citizen within a very few years.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 10:56 am 10:56 am
While NONE OF KNOW how the H/C Bill will be finalized until it comes out of the Democratic Conference (the republican’ts “refusal to positively participate” was their request to be “excused” from participating.)
I predict the “Cadillac Plans” will only apply to individuals earning $250K or combined families @ $500K +.
I don’t think Union Plans and Middle Income earners will be taxed beyond how they’re taxed today.
This is just my opinion. And yeah I know, it counters the opinions of all of those who Oppose the Health Care Bill in entirely. (This is despite the fact; Without reform, 80% of us WILL NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD H/C Insurance in 10 years. And 450,000 legal American citizens would die over the 10 years period. That’s 123 deaths/per day, because they can’t afford Health Care Insurance.)
Posted by: bobj72 | January 12, 2010, 10:56 am 10:56 am
I predict the “Cadillac Plans” will only apply to individuals earning $250K or combined families @ $500K +.
I don’t think Union Plans and Middle Income earners will be taxed beyond how they’re taxed today.
——-
I give you credit for optimism, bobj72, I really do.
But reality of behaviour by politicians from both parties and that of businesses, unions, and other groups with clout…..I’m not going to hold my breath.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 11:02 am 11:02 am
By removing all cost to the patient, there will be massive overutilization. I now work for a Medicaid contractor. My state implemented tiny co-pay amounts ($1-$2) for some member populations for certain services. Utilization dropped for services requiring co-pay.
Health care costs for any insurance payer requiring government dollars (including single payer) without some cost-sharing by the consumer would bankrupt this country, plunge it into 3rd-world credit status, and jeopardize every American citizen within a very few years.
Posted by: malcat
Here’s some reality for you. ICUs can cost more than 10 thousand a day just for the room. A prosthetic limb can cost more than 75 thousand dollars and they take about 3 days to make. Just how long would your home equity last at those prices?? Could you stay in an ICU for 20 days? How many prosthetic limbs can you buy? Medicare is being looted! On top of that 1 of every 3 dollars goes to the health care insurance companies who provide no service to the patients at all. As for the payment system it could almost be set up overnight. Get rid of the private contractors who take care of medicare and have all billing forwarded to the New Government run medicare.
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 11:07 am 11:07 am
As for the payment system it could almost be set up overnight. Get rid of the private contractors who take care of medicare and have all billing forwarded to the New Government run medicare.
Posted by: rightbehind
I forgot to mention that smart government would hire those that have worked in medical billing so they would know how to set it up. Be better jobs for the employees. Single payer is the way to go!
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 11:11 am 11:11 am
We already know the cost of the health bill is a joke because of the bogus gimmicks used such as passing billions a years in Medicaid cost onto the states ($2 BILLION a year in Pennsylvania), collecting long-term care premiums but not accounting for expenses, 10 years of taxes and Medicare cuts and only 5 to 6 years of benefits, etc. But if behind closed doors they are increasing subsidies (expenses) and increasing the threshold for the cadillac tax (decreasing revenues) how is this going to be good for the financial stability of a country on a path to bankruptcy?
One last thing…once the health care bill is passes they are ramming immigration reform through and none of the health care scores account for another 20 MILLION people getting free health care! BANKRUPT!
Posted by: TroubleAhead | January 12, 2010, 11:11 am 11:11 am
The unions will roll over for Obama. No doubt in my mind.
Posted by: Alex | January 12, 2010, 11:18 am 11:18 am
BIG Labor will certainly cave on the health tax because Obama is feeding them. The nature of Americans now is to take whatever you can from the government and to heck with the future of all the young. This is a sick philosophy that has proven to fail every single time before. To those screwing in a radiator for $75/hour off the tax payers in Alabama, Iowa and elsewhere making $10 per hour, you will eventually seal your own doom as you health bankrupt the nation-WHAT TRAITORS!
Posted by: Rockychance | January 12, 2010, 11:18 am 11:18 am
So Obama and the Dems want to tax us for having health insurance that is “too good”?? — This would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic!!! — What happened to the “NO new taxes under $250k” pledge? — there are at least 20 NEW taxes in the Senate version alone!! — We can’t afford this bill, people!! — We are shooting ourselves in the foot! — Why??
Posted by: HoosierValues | January 12, 2010, 11:20 am 11:20 am
Here’s some reality for you. ICUs can cost more than 10 thousand a day just for the room. A prosthetic limb can cost more than 75 thousand dollars and they take about 3 days to make. Just how long would your home equity last at those prices?? Could you stay in an ICU for 20 days? How many prosthetic limbs can you buy? Medicare is being looted! On top of that 1 of every 3 dollars goes to the health care insurance companies who provide no service to the patients at all. As for the payment system it could almost be set up overnight. Get rid of the private contractors who take care of medicare and have all billing forwarded to the New Government run medicare.
————-
I’m well aware of the high costs of medical care. I’ve been a medical data analyst for almost 25 years between Medicare and Medicaid.
You ask how long my money would last with those costs..answer not long without health insurance. That’s why I WANT health insurance for everyone.
But I posted about the high cost to the government if the consumer/patient paid nothing of those prices. How long do you think the federal government can provide total cost health care to every single American…the answer not long.
I’ve participated in implementation of both a Medicare contract and a Medicaid contract. I’ve heard from others who participated in Medicare contracts in other jurisdictions. Remember: these are implementations of existing programs.
It takes months to do! Medicare moved administration for durable medical equipment from the Part B contractors to specialized contractors. It took one of those new DME contractors over 2 years to pay the first claim…2 years!
The computer systems used to process claims and maintain the massive databases are extremely complex. I know because I’ve personally participated in just significant revisions that take months.
Any change to policies require alterations to these systems; imagine the testing and tweaking and testing necessary to set up a brand new system for a government-run set of plans.
As for your comment about health care insurance companies who “provide no service to the patients at all”….I would say paying the greater portion of cost, working with the healthcare providers to insure claims are submitted correctly definitely counts as a service….not health CARE itself…but they sure make paying for health care a lot easier than if the patient had no insurance at all.
That is why we need health insurance for all………..and we can’t wait for the government to re-create the wheel to do it.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 11:22 am 11:22 am
Our current health care system reminds me of that great all-american short story, The Lottery, by Shirley Jackson, a writer best known for a series of housewife novels in the 50′s. In case you don’t recall reading the Lottery, Jackson’s short story revolves around an all-American small town, where the villagers gather each year to determine who is going to get stoned to death.
Our current for-profit system of health care is a Stone Age lottery. A number of people with pre-existing conditions cannot get health insurance at all, so they are supposed to die. Each year, health insurance companies cancel or reduce health insurance for any one whose illnesses interfere with their profit margin, and they too are selected to die.
Like the villagers in Shirley Jackson’s story, no one objects to this lottery system of health care. Most Americans are betting that their employer won’t outsource their job to India. They are betting that they won’t get seriously ill until they are 65 – when they can enroll in Medicare and get their illnesses treated by “socialized” medicine. As for the losers in this lottery – the folks who lose their insurance and get sick before the age of 65, well, that’s just their tough luck. They can either go into bankruptcy and/or die.
The current health care legislation really resembles the insurance system proposed by Mitt Romney. If you remember the way Rush Limbaugh praised the medical treatment he got in Hawaii, well the medical system of Hawaii also resembles health care reform, according to reports on the Huffington Post. (He also was treated by unionized nurses.) The current health care reform still provides too much money for health insurance companies at the expense of the public. I would prefer the House bill or better a single payer system. Provided the funding avoids hitting middle class families, the health care reform eliminates some of the evils of the current system and will save lives. (Look at our current infant mortality rate to see what I mean.) That’s an improvement over the barbaric system of lottery health care that we have now.
Posted by: William Joseph Miller | January 12, 2010, 11:26 am 11:26 am
Jamesbuilder.. I’m in school right now and will be for several more years and when I get out I’ll be one of those over 250,000 people. I’m definately not bragging about it, but my point is why should I have to start evening stuff out? I never go drinking on the weekends with friends, I see my girlfriend twice a month if that, I can’t afford to buy beer for my house. Instead, I study my ass off. How possibly can you concede that it is fair that I should give up even more than already I will? It’s funny,I use to be in the union and I have first hand knowledge of how lazy those people are and the entitlement mentality they have makes me sick. I use to get yelled at for working my whole shift instead of getting ready to leave the last 10 minutes. These unions have no problem taking away from the rich but as soon as something effects them watch out.
Posted by: Mark D | January 12, 2010, 11:27 am 11:27 am
In my mid-size town, I know of 2 small employers, with over 15 employees each, who will drop employee ins coverage. Far cheaper to pay the fine. Young, healthy folks are stupid not to pay the fine..get sick and then get ins..you can’t be refused. I think we will see a surge in employees who were previously covered now left out in the cold. The revenue this bill expected from young folks will not be there. 39 states are broke, and now we are going to saddle them with even more Medicaid debt. Sorry folks, higher state taxes.
Last week the Mayo Clinic in AZ stopped accepting Medicare. More will follow. Only 40-50% of docs now accept..that percentage will rise because this bill killed the Doc Fix. Good luck to all you “new” folks in finding a doc. My wife’s elderly aunt recently had to move to a small town in NC in order to find a doc who would accept Medicare.
The math simply does not add up as to how this mess of a bill resolves anything.
Posted by: salty dog | January 12, 2010, 11:32 am 11:32 am
I forgot to mention that smart government would hire those that have worked in medical billing so they would know how to set it up. Be better jobs for the employees. Single payer is the way to go!
—————
People who do medical billing for healthcare providers know very little about how Medicare works beyond the manuals and workshops Medicare contractors provide. Except those lured away from Medicare contractors, that is.
The people that smart government should hire would be those now working for Medicare contractors and/or private insurers.
Again, the computer systems are very complex; so sensitive that one tiny mistake in coding can crash it or worse: pay claims wrong!!
I realize you want single payer, but it is just not logistically possible to create quickly enough to help fellow Americans who need health insurance NOW.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 11:33 am 11:33 am
Wow the more posts I read the more I realize how insane the left really is. All of those who can’t afford health care(myself included, uninsured here) until you sell your computers, your iphones, your tvs and every other luxury that even you morons can’t claim is a right, don’t preach about how you need help paying for healthcare, and that everyone else other than your own selves are responsible for you getting it. I read these posts of sob stories from people who can’t afford healthcare. My advice, stop bloggin, sell your bloggin device(computer) and use the money wisely. Hell, most of these “evil” insurance companies you speak of that are taking so much of your money are publicly traded, invest in them.
Posted by: Mark D | January 12, 2010, 11:39 am 11:39 am
malcat — If you want healthcare coverage for ALL, don’t support this bill! — The CBO said there would still be 17 Million uninsured in 10 years with this plan — It’s all about control, not about the uninsured! — Cut 500B from Madicare, create 20 new taxes (min), force Americans to purchase a product, force insurance companies to insure everyone (which will drive premiums up even more, this is just a BAD bill!! — Oh, and we CAN’T AFFORD IT (our current entitlement programs are bankrupt)!!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | January 12, 2010, 11:41 am 11:41 am
William Joseph Miller
I’m familiar with the story “The Lottery. Perfect example of people clinging to an ideology. Out of all those forced to participate who will be the “unlucky” one?
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 11:45 am 11:45 am
In my mid-size town, I know of 2 small employers, with over 15 employees each, who will drop employee ins coverage. Far cheaper to pay the fine.
——-
SaltyDog, it won’t just be small employers. I work for one of the largest corporations in the US …the world. They are salivating at the thought of dropping EGHP.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 11:46 am 11:46 am
MarkD. Right on. The insurance companies saw right through this stupid bill. So did Wall St. Ins stocks soared. Thanks Harry, I made a bunch of money. This administration does not have a business person in the group. They have been taken to the cleaners at every turn. Please, banks, give us back our money. Please, AIG, quit being so mean. Please, forgive us for being stupid and being played like a pinball machine. By the way, re the Fat Cat bankers..did that include the 2 CEO’ at Fannie and Freddie who last month took a cool 6 million each as a bonus. Of course not. Barney took care of them Maybe if you are from NE or LA, you can also make out.
Posted by: salty dog | January 12, 2010, 11:48 am 11:48 am
Gee! that will be big of the So, Called Unions That suppports a Government of Tryanny! What does it take for them to take it in the Back side! Americans we the people have had our fill!Time to Reject al of this tryanny! America!
Posted by: rckinscooter33 | January 12, 2010, 11:49 am 11:49 am
The politician’s populist plans NEVER work, because power corrupts and government bankrupts everything it touches. For those that will listen, history shouts over and over that we cannot sustain the wild spending and government takeover of business, banking, health care, and continue to inflate unfunded entitlement programs! Like history tells us, it will be utter and complete disaster!!!
Today’s politicians are guilty of more than arrogant stupidity; they are enslaving future generations to poverty and misery. And they will be long gone when it all implodes. They will be as cold and dead as Juan Perón when your children and grand children must ultimately pay for the blind arrogance of politicians!
Posted by: watchinbo | January 12, 2010, 11:51 am 11:51 am
THINK AMERICA!
WE ARE ALLOWING POLITICIANS TO REPEAT THE FAILURES OF HISTORY!
THINK…. AND ACT ! !
Posted by: watchinbo | January 12, 2010, 11:52 am 11:52 am
while working America cuts back… Congress just increased government expenditures by 12% in the “Omnibus” spending bill of nearly half a TRILLION!
Last year there was ONE person in the Dept. of Transportation making over $170,000!
This year that Dept. has 1690 people making over $170,000!
Is your company, or ANY company, doing that well?
AND, this bill has 5224 earmarks totaling $4,000,000,000!
Posted by: watchinbo | January 12, 2010, 11:52 am 11:52 am
Any change to policies require alterations to these systems; imagine the testing and tweaking and testing necessary to set up a brand new system for a government-run set of plans.Posted by: malcat
You must be an have all your eggs in one basket type of person. The health care insurance companies do nothing for the patient. The feed on fear and rob from sick who are not in a position to put up a fight to line the pockets of stockholders. We need to get rid of them. If they are so great have them send you a letter of guarantee that you will live to be a fruitful 115 years old. The point being is when your time comes you will go regardless of your insurance and or health care system.
I say we already pay enoughin taxes to cover the cost of health care. Bring on single payer!
Posted by: rightbehind | January 12, 2010, 11:53 am 11:53 am
rightbehind,,,your arguments and premise utilizer the word SMART GOVERNMENT….aint such a thing. read thomas jefferson writing sometime and you will undersatnd what wrong with this country and socialism, and this is socialism.
Posted by: catman | January 12, 2010, 11:53 am 11:53 am
rightbehind do you have any clue what your trying to state? Sure makes no meaning?
Posted by: Jim Rod | January 12, 2010, 11:58 am 11:58 am
There is no doubt about, in my mind. The Unions will cave. They do not have the guts to stand up and fight.
Posted by: Lara | January 12, 2010, 12:02 pm 12:02 pm
OBAMA REACHES NEW LOW IN POLLS….TIME TO RESIGN
Posted by: catman | January 12, 2010, 12:05 pm 12:05 pm
Hoosiervalues, I’m well aware of the political realities that are driving the president and Congress. And I’m aware that the ridiculous bills under consideration are no where near what is reasonable, sustainable, or practical.
But we taxpayers pay for uninsureds’ health care now. I would prefer to bring them into the fold with health insurance even with governmental subsidies. I’m one of those Republicans that liberals and Democrats insist don’t exist….I have compassion along with practicality. The heart and soul of a nation is judged by how it cares for the weak and vulnerable.
I know that insuring all won’t happen in a snap. I prefer it be done in stages by targeting the most in need first.
I think the nation can afford it if is done in stages, common-sense is applied along with a strong dose of reality-driven practicality. The US and her citizens must be willing to make hard choices about everything the government funds now.
Idiocies such as Cash for Clunkers/Caulkers for instance….wrong.
Funding research for absurdities as sex-life of a worm…wrong.
And paying obscene amounts of money for nation-building and aid to countries that do, and will continue to, hate us no matter how much we shell out…….wrong.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 12:15 pm 12:15 pm
You must be an have all your eggs in one basket type of person. The health care insurance companies do nothing for the patient. The feed on fear and rob from sick who are not in a position to put up a fight to line the pockets of stockholders. We need to get rid of them. If they are so great have them send you a letter of guarantee that you will live to be a fruitful 115 years old. The point being is when your time comes you will go regardless of your insurance and or health care system.
I say we already pay enoughin taxes to cover the cost of health care. Bring on single payer!
———–
Rightbehind, I do not understand what you said as posted above has to do with my comment about the logistics of creating a single-payer, government-run health insurance.
I’m not defending everything all health insurers do. But to say they rob from the sick and provide nothing in return is false. They are private businesses. Businesses must make profits to survive. But they are businesses that provide 100s of thousands of jobs. They pay enormous amounts in local, state, and federal taxes.
And the biggee: they pay for peoples’ health care. Do they pay enough can be debated, but they do pay. You cannot deny that.
Posted by: malcat | January 12, 2010, 12:23 pm 12:23 pm
Trumka doesn’t seem to be on Obama’s
bandwagon re: healthcare and he’s one
thuggish-lookin’ dude. Can Barry’s
dulcet oratory soothe the beast?
Posted by: Sir Toby Belch | January 12, 2010, 1:09 pm 1:09 pm
The union meeting may be a ruse to get the government to assume responsibility for their pension funds. Are they fully funded? Anyone out their have that info?
Posted by: deanbob | January 12, 2010, 1:10 pm 1:10 pm
Hasn’t the liar in chief been trying to sell this lemon to America for the last 12 months,. And Americans have rejected the bill and him. We know corruption, bribes and bought votes when we see them. Hoping Mass. votes in a GOPer, or if not, a Dem. Senator doesn’t make it to the final vote for whatever reason it takes.
Posted by: Tony T | January 12, 2010, 1:16 pm 1:16 pm
Seriously, the News media focuses so much on the sensationalism surrounding the Cadillac tax, that they very seldom define it.
I had to sift through several articles to insure that it is NOT, as many articles report, a 40% tax on policies costing more than $8500. It’s a tax on the portion above $8500 per individual or $23,000 per family.
But nowhere have I seen, on ABC, a description of exactly WHAT is included in your “policy”.
Another site states “The bill now calls for the tax to apply to plans exceeding $8,500 for individuals and $23,000 for families, for the cost of combining health savings accounts, medical, prescription drugs, dental, vision, etc.. The tax is charged to insurance companies, but it is widely assumed they would passed it on to employers.”
The total employer + employee premiums for my first-class health insurance health, vision, and dental insurance totals only $6000 because my insurer separately self-funds prescription insurance, which covers an average 90% of prescription costs. How much does that add on? I get about $6000 worth of prescriptions per year and my employer pays about $5500 of it. How’s that figure in?
When I originally retired in 2006, I put together an Excel spreadsheet of costs, vacation funds, new cars, new roof, emergency funds, income, savings, etc. to see if I’d be ok.
I put down only 75% of the expected Social Security because I figured Medicare and cheating people on annual COLAs with those undervalued CPI numbers would reduce the real value of Soc. Sec. But it looks like that figure is going to kick in sooner than later because of Medicare, when that kicks in, and more expenses to my BCBS supplemental and prescription through my employer.
Posted by: The_Mick | January 12, 2010, 1:21 pm 1:21 pm
46% and dropping.change is comming.
Posted by: catman | January 12, 2010, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
After President Obama policies result in a dramatic US dollar devaluation. The number of people making over $250K/year will dramatically increase allowing the President to keep his promise of only increasing taxes on those making over $250K/year. ($250K/tear will be the poverty line)
Posted by: tillyerkt | January 12, 2010, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm
If the healthcare vote is delay beond the Mass. senatorial election, Scott Brown could be the vote to prevent 60 in the senate. If that appeals to you …..
Posted by: deanbob | January 12, 2010, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm
There are very few Democrats, Republicans, or independents that would say they would not like lower health insurance premiums and better health care accessibility for all. The problem is, how we go about it! — A 2000 page bill that doesn’t accomplish the basic goals is NOT the way to do it…. 1) It’s way too expensive. 2) It will still leave 21 million Americans uninsured in 10 years. 3) Insurance premiums will still rise for the average American, mainly because of the mandates place upon them. 4) government entitlement programs always turn out to cost 10-20 times what they were predicted. 5) It adds many new taxes to the average American. 6) It will force small businesses to hire less people to pay new healthcare costs. 7) It’s just a power grab to increase the size of government, grabbing 17% MORE of the US economy!!! —– These bills are BAD NEWS to America!!
Posted by: HoosierValues | January 12, 2010, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm
The health care debate was turned into garbage when the issues beig debated and put into bills were not made public. This is what lead to such a special interest take-over of the whole process. If the President was honest and had any integrity (as well as Pelosi and Reid) it would have been debated in public on Cspan. How do defend Obama’s failed promise to make it public?
Posted by: jamescbuilder | January 12, 2010, 3:10 pm 3:10 pm
James….I would say Obama is just being a politician. But the healthcare bill IS 1/6 of the economy; and politics should be put aside in the best interests of the US – a US that is teetering on the edge of a more serious depression than the great one of the 1930′s.
Posted by: bonbud | January 12, 2010, 3:29 pm 3:29 pm
The_Mick
I agree, nowhere have I read in the mainstream media how Congress defines a Cadillac Plan, or how the guidelines apply to those over 55 or by income.
How can we have a sensible debate if the facts are not spelled out?
I went to FactCheck.Org today to try and figure out what this tax means. It’s pathetic that there has to be a website to give us the facts, when we have four major news broadcasters, but there you go. I also went to NPR’s website, which sometimes gives a deeper treatment to these issues.
It certainly is a complicated issue, but that doesn’t mean we should resort to partisan positions to avoid reading the small print. Personally, I’m still reading.
Posted by: Amy in Maine | January 12, 2010, 4:07 pm 4:07 pm
Amy….The Cadillac tac is just the beginning of taxes those ‘making less than $250K’.
Posted by: bonbud | January 12, 2010, 7:23 pm 7:23 pm