By Lindsey Ellerson

Jan 5, 2010 1:07pm

Is a Terrorist’s Right to Remain Silent Different When Granted by a Republican Administration?

Republicans are criticizing President Obama for his decision to try failed terrorist Umar Farouq Abdulmuttalab in criminal court instead of a military commission; former Vice President Cheney, for example, in his comments to Politico, said that the president “seems to think if he gives terrorists the rights of Americans, lets them lawyer up and reads them their Miranda rights, we won’t be at war.”

The issue seems at this point to be less the severity of the punishment but the ability of the defendant to invoke their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. Why, the argument goes, should Abdulmuttalab be permitted to clam up when he may have actionable intelligence?

White House homeland security adviser John Brennan on Sunday explained the decision to CNN's State of the Union by saying, "We try to adapt the tools in the right way. We are also a country of laws. This was an individual who was arrested on U.S. soil. If we decide at some point that we're going to charge and hold somebody under the enemy combatant status, it's a tool that is available to us. We made a decision to do this.  We have great confidence in the FBI and other individuals in terms of debriefing. We have great confidence in our court system so that we can use that to our advantage. And individuals in the past have, in fact, given us very valuable information as they've gone through the plea agreement process."

Brennan told Fox News Sunday that “we have an array of tools that we will use, and we want to make sure we maintain flexibility as far as how we deal with these individuals…Just because somebody is going to be put into the criminal legal process does not mean that they’re — we don’t have other opportunities to get information from them…As you talk with the lawyers and you talk with the individuals, as they recognize what they’re facing as far as the charges, conviction and possible sentence, there are opportunities to continue to talk about it. FBI has some of the best interrogators and debriefers in the world, and so I’m confident that we’re going to continue to be able to work this system…”

Anchor Chris Wallace pointed out that once Abdulmuttalab “gets his Miranda rights, he doesn’t have to speak at all.”

“He doesn’t have to, but he knows that there are certain things that are on the table, and if he wants to, in fact, engage with us in a productive manner, there are ways that he can do that,” Brennan said.

The debate is playing out over the airwaves and the blogosphere.

“A terrorist like Abdulmutallab is not a common criminal who should be told he has the ‘right to remain silent,’” writes former Bush speechwriter and National Review writer Marc Thiessen. “He is an enemy combatant, who tried to commit an act of war against the United States of America. He possesses vital intelligence about the terrorist network that deployed him to attack America, and may be planning still more attacks. The Obama administration has a responsibility to make him give up that information. Treating him like a criminal is an abdication of that responsibility, and puts our nation at risk.”

Given that President Bush pursued criminal charges against attempted shoe-bomber Richard Reid, for instance, how can Republicans criticize President Obama for doing the same with Abdulmuttalab?

“Simple,” writes Thiessen “The Richard Reid attack came almost immediately after 9/11, long before we figured out that we had other options than handing him over to law enforcement. After that came Jose Padilla, who was arrested at the Chicago airport on a mission from KSM to blow up apartment buildings in the United States. He was taken out of the criminal-justice system, declared an illegal enemy combatant, and transferred to the Charleston brig for interrogation.”

At Talking Points Memo, Josh Marshall calls that argument clearly preposterous. The reason we handled Padilla that way was because we didn't have clear evidence to try him in a civilian court. If that were the case why did we try all the other people arrested in terrorist plots after Padilla in civilian courts? It can't be because they were American citizens, because Padilla is an American citizen too. There's no way to spin this. There's no reason beside GOP electoral strategy for not trying AbdulMutallab in a regular American Court.”

Marshall adds “President Bush okayed military tribunals a month before Reid tried to blow up the plane.”

Thiessen responds “Josh asks:  ‘Why did we try all the other people arrested in terrorist plots after Padilla in civilian courts?’ Answer:  We didn’t. We didn’t try Binyam Mohammed, who was Padilla’s partner and captured after him, in a civilian court — we sent him to Guantanamo. We arrested and charged Uzair Paracha in a New York federal court for his part in a KSM plot, but Saifullah Paracha (Uzair's father) was arrested overseas and shipped to Gitmo even though he was working with Uzair and al-Qaeda in the same plot. Majid Khan, a onetime U.S. resident, was detained overseas, kept in black sites, and then eventually shipped to Gitmo. Khan was working with the Parachas on a post-9/11 plot in which Khan was going to sneak back into the U.S. and hit any number of targets, and he provided $50,000 to the terrorist Hambali for a plot to fly a plane into the Library Tower in Los Angeles. Khan is still at Gitmo. Mohammed al-Kahtani was never tried in a federal court, even though his fingerprint matched the fingerprint of a would-be 9/11 hijacker who was turned away from the Orlando airport. Kahtani was and remains detained at Gitmo.”

It goes on from there.

**
 
It is worth noting, however, that in many instances the Bush administration praised the notion of a criminal venues – and not just when Attorney General John Ashcroft announced the criminal indictment of Moussaoui, saying “the United States of America has brought the awesome weight of justice against the terrorists who blithely murdered innocent Americans.”

Thiessen is correct that not “every” defendant after Padilla was tried in a civilian court. But it’s also true that Bush administration officials – at least if you take them at the word – seriously considered whether defendants such as Moussaoui, Reid and others should be put before a military tribunal. And it’s certainly true that Republican officials praised the various law enforcement investigations and prosecutions of several defendants – and in some instances it may be difficult for you to imagine those same officials doing the same thing had Barack Obama been president and Eric Holder been Attorney General at the time.

On December 12, 2001, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer was asked specifically why President Bush rejected the idea of having Moussaoui go before a military tribunal.

“The president two days ago discussed with Attorney General Ashcroft during a Oval Office meeting what the best venue would be to bring Mr. Moussaoui to justice,” Fleischer said. “And as the president said when he created the military tribunals, he wanted to have the option of a military tribunal for those limited number of cases where the national security of the United States or our ability to continue to obtain intelligence information without compromising sources or methods would be achieved as a result of going to a military court as opposed to a civilian court. So, during his meeting with the attorney general, the president asked a series of questions about civilian versus military trial, and asked, if this were to be decided in a civilian court, civilian criminal court, would national security be endangered, would sources or methods be compromised? The president was satisfied that the answers to those questions were no. The attorney general recommended that this go to a civilian court. The president concurred.”

Vice President Cheney repeated some of that argument to the Washington Times on January 3, 2002.

“There's a good, strong case against him,” Cheney told the Times. 

On April 3, 2006, when Moussaoui was convicted, then-Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said “Zacarias Moussaoui received what he would deny all of us. Today justice was served.”

A month later, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani told the New York Daily News that while he was “very disappointed” Moussaoui was not sentenced to death since he “thought the death penalty was the appropriate conclusion, at the same time, I was in awe of our system. It does demonstrate that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly what we say we are. We are a nation of law… I think he's going to be a symbol of American justice."

The decision to try Reid in a criminal court, at least according to Ashcroft in 2002, wasn’t debated much.

Asked specifically if he considered using a military tribunal, Ashcroft said, “You know, the facts as developed in this case were a result of this alert vigilance and participation of the American public. They are very clear. … People were alert, and that created a factual basis for the kind of court case that we've alleged. I did confer with the…Department of Defense and with their general counsel, and they had no objection to our proceeding in this matter.” 

Then there was the case of Iyman Faris, the former truck driver convicted of being part of an al Qaeda plot to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge. According to the Justice Department, “Faris admitted that upon returning to the United States from Pakistan in April 2002, he researched ‘gas cutters’ – the equipment for severing bridge suspension cables – and the New York City bridge on the Internet. Between April 2002 and March 2003, he sent several coded messages through another individual to his longtime friend in Pakistan, indicating he had been unsuccessful in his attempts to obtain the necessary equipment. Faris admitted to traveling to New York City in late 2002 to examine the bridge, and said he concluded that the plot to destroy the bridge by severing cables was unlikely to succeed because of the bridge’s security and structure. In early 2003, he sent a message that ‘the weather is too hot’ – a coded message indicating that the bridge plot was unlikely to succeed.”

Arrested by the FBI in 2003, Faris became a double agent and helped the FBI for a few months. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

One might think that the fact that Faris will be a free man in 2023 would be a matter of some contention, but the Justice Department’s vigilance was praised.

“This most recent arrest is a visible reminder that our intelligence and security agencies are thwarting terrorist activities in the United States,” said Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan.

“In the last four years under the Patriot Act, we have seen a great increase in the ability of law enforcement officials to investigate and track terrorists,” said Rep. Mike Pence, R-Indiana. “For example, aided by provisions of the Patriot Act, law enforcement officials in Ohio were able to arrest Iyman Faris.”

- jpt

User Comments

Wouldn’t it be more interesting to discuss what we lose and what we gain at each venue, despite who is calling for it.
Moussaoui pled guilty. He was arrested in August, before the attacks took place. There was some controversy surrounding him, because the FBI could not get permission to access his laptop computer.

Posted by: MayBee | January 5, 2010, 1:21 pm 1:21 pm

Republicans have never been burdened with a sense of consistency.

Posted by: Brooklyn Democrat | January 5, 2010, 1:29 pm 1:29 pm

So what we’re saying is that the American justice system — the same system that we ask nations around the world to emulate — isn’t good enough to deal with terrorism?

Posted by: Mom with a Brain | January 5, 2010, 1:35 pm 1:35 pm

“Mom with a Brain?” Ha! “Mom with a Brian” sounds more like it.

Posted by: W Axl Rose | January 5, 2010, 1:50 pm 1:50 pm

Of course Obama is playing it safe — you don’t want to talk harshly to a terrorist — it might be construed as “torture”!! —- Hold his hand, caress it softley, and tell the poor man he doesn’t have to talk if he doesn’t want to…. To be rational, of course, we might want to know if there are 30 more bombers following right behind his attempt!!!!

Posted by: HoosierValues | January 5, 2010, 1:54 pm 1:54 pm

So what we’re saying is that the American justice system — the same system that we ask nations around the world to emulate — isn’t good enough to deal with terrorism?
=========
Well, it depends. It isn’t the best way to get intelligence from terrorists once they’ve been apprehended.
We also don’t use it for military matters.

Posted by: MayBee | January 5, 2010, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

To me a real question is how do we handle combatants who violate the Geneva Conventions and other conventions dealing with warfare. It is clear in all conventions that attacks on civilians are banned, yet the purpose of most terrorist attacks are exactly that. What these conventions do not spell out are what are the penalties. Can governments then have carte blanche when dealing with those found in violation of the attacks on civilians? On the other extreme are we just to ignore the attacks.
Perhaps our erstwhile members of Congress need to come up with laws that cover these types of incidents as I fear they will be more common that we might like.

Posted by: jb | January 5, 2010, 1:58 pm 1:58 pm

We bring the Guantanamo inmates to NYC for trial, when one had already said he would plead guilty in a military tribunal, so WHO KNOWS what the Obama administration wil do next!! Probably put the man who stopped him from blowing up the plane on trial for violating Abdulmutallab’s civil rights!!!

Posted by: PCgoneMAD | January 5, 2010, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm

So what we’re saying is that the American justice system — the same system that we ask nations around the world to emulate — isn’t good enough to deal with terrorism?
Posted by: Mom with a Brain | Jan 5, 2010 1:35:34 PM
No, actually what we’re saying is that the American justice system shouldn’t have to be burdened with terrorists. They don’t deserve our justice system. What they deserve is a bullet between the eyes. Now that would be swift justice.

Posted by: Shoe | January 5, 2010, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm

None of them should be in a civlian court. They should ALL face military tribunals. Let’s remember that Democrats ended that possibility.

Posted by: drjohn | January 5, 2010, 2:09 pm 2:09 pm

We are in a war and these people don’t cre if we live or die. When anyone attacks innocent people they should at least be charged with attempted murder from every passenger that was on that plane. We cannot afford to be so policically correct. Punish these people as criminals and stop worring about their rights because to me they have no rights because they are cold blodded killers.

Posted by: magnumdr | January 5, 2010, 2:15 pm 2:15 pm

None of them should be in a civlian court. They should ALL face military tribunals. Let’s remember that Democrats ended that possibility.
drjohn | Jan 5, 2010 2:09:10 PM
Keep in mind, folks, that drjohn here is including US Citizens, arrested on US soil.
I fear the destruction of our Constitution more than any terrorist underwear bomber. Who do you want to be able to declare you (a US citizen) an enemy combatant, strip you of your Constitutional right to trial, and ‘throw you in the brig’ – President Obama? The next President W Bush? There should be bipartisan respect for the rule of law.

Posted by: jhw539 | January 5, 2010, 2:24 pm 2:24 pm

I fear the destruction of our Constitution more than any terrorist underwear bomber
Posted by: jhw539
—————————————-
If you fear the destruction of the constitution, then you must fear Obama and his prostituted healthcare bill…..read amendments 4th 5th and 10th

Posted by: Wake me up when bodies start falling from the sky | January 5, 2010, 2:33 pm 2:33 pm

“Punish these people as criminals and stop worring about their rights because to me they have no rights because they are cold blodded killers.”
They are trying them and punishing them as criminals! Please keep up.

Posted by: J. Richter | January 5, 2010, 2:37 pm 2:37 pm

The “home-” terrorist of the Republican party is Pi..ti..ful. Politicizing “terror and fear”. Today, Moussaoui in the American justice system, was denied a motion by a U.S. judge. Wasn’t he the man tried in Federal Court by the Bush administration? Uhmmmmm!
Oh, I guess now the FBI is “indequate” in their skills, and the federal court systems are “indequate” also. So, yep, Jake, in their “itty-bitty” brains. The American people has figured this out long ago.

Posted by: sara | January 5, 2010, 2:39 pm 2:39 pm

More terrorist and affiliates captured or killed by the current administration. Oh wait, “dead or alive” ….. where’s Bin Laden???? Looks like the wheels of “their security policies” has come off for everybody to see. The Republicans has been “screaming” security since they were voted out of office, criticizing the current administration when they have called for “revision” in “their” policies. Uhmmmmm…..not as “airtight” as they SCREAM it is. 8 years later, and they having 7 to fix it. These idiots are funny.

Posted by: sara | January 5, 2010, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm

What people seem most worked up over is that you can’t torture a criminal defendant. Just label him an enemy combatant and you can torture him for information to your heart’s content. That’s what it really comes down to. We may call ourselves a nation of laws but when it comes time to apply those laws, all of a sudden no one believes in being a nation of laws. We’d rather be like the communists and the nazis and the third world thugs, with no legal restraints and clearly no moral restraints. You people just have no idea how damaging this whole issue has been to the image of America among ordinary Europeans. Like my Dutch girlfriend said, America was like their big brother; America defended them and set them free from the Nazis. And now it’s like finding out that the big brother who protected and defended you is really a rapist and sadistic murderer. You may think it doesn’t matter what the rest of the world thinks, but it does. Especially when you want and need allies.

Posted by: windrider | January 5, 2010, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm

Good story Jake Tapper.
I always enjoy when Republicans are caught attempting to make partisan political gain on the back of national security (or any other issue) – and instead have their hypocrisy revealed.

Posted by: tierra | January 5, 2010, 2:58 pm 2:58 pm

“Republicans have never been burdened with a sense of consistency.”
Ain’t that the truth. You’d think their heads would have exploded by now from the pressure created by the cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: Ron | January 5, 2010, 3:07 pm 3:07 pm

It was wrong for the Bush admin to allow Reid, Padilla, Moussaoui, or any other enemy combatant to be tried in the civil court system. A US citizen caught inside the US has the right to a trial by his peers, but a US citizen caught on a foreign battlefield has forfeited that right. A foreign combatant captured in the US or on the battlefield has no right to anything other than indefinite detention and a military tribunal. Why would we give foreign nationals welfare benefits paid for by US taxpayers? Even more so, why would we give constitutional rights to foreign combatants who have tried or succeeded in attacking us? There is a lack of common sense that is appalling amongst those who push for trials with constitutional protections for our enemies.

Posted by: Jason | January 5, 2010, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

Obama’s lesson for terrorists:
If you attack a US military target, you will be tried in a military tribunal.
If you attack a US CIVILIAN target, you will be tried in a civilian court–with far more rights and protections.
Perverse set of incentives, isn’t it??

Posted by: The War on The War on Terror | January 5, 2010, 3:45 pm 3:45 pm

It’s amazing that Americans actually believe that torture is a viable method for extracting information. In the entire recorded history of mankind torture has never been effective for anything but extracting false confessions. Even the majority of regimes that practiced torture in the past realized that it was only useful for this purpose. But what’s all that compared to an episode of 24. What a pathetic country America has become.

Posted by: Mike | January 5, 2010, 3:59 pm 3:59 pm

You seem to be blending two different considerations in your rush to paint a partisan story. One is of course the punishment and consequence for a captured terrorist, the other does that person have the ability to provide information that would enhance our national security. I don’t know all the details of some of the earlier cases but a guy who just came from Al Quaeda in Yemen would seem to have a lot of potential for more information that might help the US. Giving him the ability to be silent when there may be more info seems irresponsible. What if Moussaoui had been captured in August 2001 for planning to fly planes into buildings and everyone said he had the right to remain silent. Interrogating him would have revealed a lot to protect a lot of Americans. After 9/11 the mission he had trained for had been carried out so perhaps his intel was less valuable. Nobody knows if Abdulmuttalab is/was the only one. Painting these things as merely partisan distracts from addressing the real issues.

Posted by: GO | January 5, 2010, 4:12 pm 4:12 pm

I don’t really care for the politics of this stuff…period. For us minions out here all we want is safety and the freedom to travel without too much difficulty. However, it is hard for me to give too much sympathy to anyone who would knowingly try to destroy the lives of so many and I really don’t think a trip outside the justice system is outlandish. I can think of no horror worse than what could have happened to nearly 300 people or the three thousand who died on 911. Our President has done the right thing by reaching out, I don’t fault him for that, but sometimes he might consider the use a ball bat accross their heads as well.

Posted by: david | January 5, 2010, 4:25 pm 4:25 pm

“There should be bipartisan respect for the rule of law.”
Umm its the right wing jhw.
When do they care about the rule of law unless it involves locking up minorities.

Posted by: Ryan C | January 5, 2010, 4:35 pm 4:35 pm

- When Bush releases 592 gitmo detainees and 2 attack us, Obama is to blame even though only 7 were carefully released back under his watch so far.
- When Bush tries terrorists in civilian courts its ok, when Obama does the same and invokes our ways and laws, which we fight for and which they hate, he is friendly with terrorists.
- When Bush gives away 350 billion dollars bailout, and Obama gets back already 150 billion, Obama is blamed for bailouts even though only 7 billion went out to bialouts for banks under his watch.
…the hypocrisy knows no end.

Posted by: J. Richter | January 5, 2010, 4:39 pm 4:39 pm

“Moussaoui pled guilty. He was arrested in August, before the attacks took place. There was some controversy surrounding him, because the FBI could not get permission to access his laptop computer.”
What right wing lie is this about?
The FBIHQ never tried to get a criminal warrant even though field agents asked for it.
And under the Bush DOJ, they were incompetent at filing FISA applications to the point a judge wrote Ashcroft.

Posted by: Ryan C | January 5, 2010, 4:44 pm 4:44 pm

Why is it that we leap to the conclusion that Mr. Abdulmuttalab was privy to the long range plans of his organization? Such access is akin to a buck private sitting in on meetings of the JCS. Probably doesn’t happen very often.

Posted by: Slade the Leveller | January 5, 2010, 4:51 pm 4:51 pm

You’re right.
We should never learn from our mistakes. We should always scream “But Bush” then continue to commit suicide.
Bush was also conducting a war as a war, where the Obama administration has completely changed the view to that of law enforcement. Context exists for other purposes than Liberal excuses.
Unlike the almost universally lockstep Liberals, Republicans were by no means united supporters of Bush. Many thought he made many mistakes and were quite clear about it.

Posted by: Melvin_Udall | January 5, 2010, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm

It is truly sickening the ignorance of Americans. We will still have tribunals for some combatants….people if you are going to criticize keep up with the FACTS!! Republicans have done yet again what they always do when their own failed policies have come to light, turn the discussion to willful mischaracterizations (Cheney- Obama…not at war), out right lies (death panels), and distraction. We had 8 yrs of failed policy, increased terrorsm recruiting, failed financial regulation/oversight, failure to implement the 911 comm recommendation, etc….and to hear people say basically “we had it sooooo much better under Bush and the republicans.” Well if that is so, let me ask you “How are you liking this economy bacause it tanked under that regime? How are you like the thousands of troops killed in Iraq, because they were sent by BushCo? How are you liking the deficit, because it was created and exacerbated by BushCo? So stop with the FALSE outrage. If you are upset, understandable, but Obama has been in office 1 yr and all the mentioned problems were in full swing when he got there. If he doesn’t do a good job of fixing the REPUBLICAN mes, I agree we should hold him accountable but give the president a chance to fix the problems created by the very people who many on these posts are now supporting. I seldome use the word hate being an African-American, I know the words true meaning, but I HATE a hypocrite and there are many on these blogs, in the government and media and that goes for republicans and democrats. Wake up people, educate yoursel;ves and stop listening to ONE source, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

Posted by: A Real American | January 5, 2010, 7:16 pm 7:16 pm

the president “seems to think if he gives terrorists the rights of Americans, lets them lawyer up and reads them their Miranda rights, we won’t be at war.”
What an idiot. If it wasn’t for Cheney, the Democrats would have no hope whatsoever.
Maybe if Cheney had read them “their rights” instead of releasing them back to Yemen, they wouldn’t have been able to attempt an attack.
What a maroon

Posted by: Flash Override | January 5, 2010, 7:33 pm 7:33 pm

The FBIHQ never tried to get a criminal warrant even though field agents asked for it.
=======
Lie?
The FBI investigators were unable to gain access to Moussaoui’s computers, rebuffed both by superiors and a FISA rejection.
The FBI had internal rules set up because it needed to stay within their legal framework.
The point absolutely stands. That all happened because he was arrested and put into the legal system rather than used for intelligence. (because he was arrested before 9/11.)
There are more limits on someone in the US legal system, and that case is an specific, excellent example of intelligence missed because of it.

Posted by: MayBee | January 5, 2010, 7:52 pm 7:52 pm

Good article Jake. It’s rare that Glenn Greenwald praises a mainstream media journalist, but this one actually deserves it for not taking the Politico route.

Posted by: SusanaSanJuan | January 5, 2010, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm

“The reason we handled Padilla that way was because we didn’t have clear evidence to try him in a civilian court.” This is nonsense. Padilla was tried and convicted in Miami for crimes he committed in 1996-1998 raising money to support terrorist in Chechnya. If you look at all the evidence introduced into his trial you will see that all of it was collected by the FBI years before he was taken into custody in 2002. The option to prosecute him for crimes was always available, but the government held him for three and a half years in military custody as a prisoner of war because that allowed them to protect the sensitive information he was providing about other al Qaeda people. Nobody learned he was talking or anything about what he said until years after his detention started, and keeping the enemy in the dark was an important advantage.

Posted by: Howard Gilbert | January 5, 2010, 11:22 pm 11:22 pm

Reid was a British citizen — a country with whom the US has extradition treaties, etc… Legally it makes sense to treat him as a civilian.
Should a Nigerian national garner the same rights as a British national?

Posted by: Mike, CO | January 5, 2010, 11:42 pm 11:42 pm

Homeland Security is just another Bush/Cheney mess that Obama will have to fix along with everything else

Posted by: TJ | January 6, 2010, 1:11 am 1:11 am

Mr Thiessen is either not familiar with US law or, more likely, has utter contempt for the rule of law.
He wrote that
Umar Farouq Abdulmuttalab
“is an enemy combatant, who tried to commit an act of war against the United States of America.” and implies that, therefore, he can be forced to talk.
In fact, under the Geneva conventions (which are ratified and therefore US law according to the Constitution) enemy combatents may be forced to reveal only their name rank and serial number.
Captured enemy combatents may also be subject to trial as war criminals. The 5th amendment plainly applies to such trials (it contains no ifs ands or buts).
What Thiessen wants is a President who considers himself to be above the law and the constitution.
In this case, he thinks that someone can be declared an *unlawful* combatent by executive fiat and that such a declaration eliminates that person’s fifth amendment rights. This is true to exactly the same extent that President Obama can lock Mr Thiessen up indefinately without trial, that is, not at all.

Posted by: Robert Waldmann | January 6, 2010, 2:17 am 2:17 am

I had to laugh out loud at Mr. Udall’s swipe at “almost universally lockstep Liberals”. What happened to “Democrats In Disarray”?
Is it really *liberals* who listen to an angry radio host and then send e-mails to everyone they know repeating what he said word for word?
Is it really *liberals* who lock arms in the Senate and vote a unified “NO!” on measure after measure after measure intended to help the American people?
Lockstep? I associate that word with clueless right-wingers like Udall, not liberals!

Posted by: Mark | January 6, 2010, 6:49 am 6:49 am

An more questions about what side
Politico serves.
John F. Harris and Jim VandeHei left The Washington Post to become Politico’s editor-in-chief and executive editor, respectively. Politico is financed by Robert Allbritton, chairman and chief executive of Allbritton Communications, which owns television stations in Washington, D.C. and elsewhere, all affiliated with the Disney-owned ABC network. Frederick J. Ryan Jr., former Assistant to President Ronald Reagan,[2] and currently chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library Foundation, is president and CEO of Politico.[3]

Posted by: mark from manhatan | January 6, 2010, 12:40 pm 12:40 pm

Mr. Waldmann is wrong (see below). The Geneva Convention only applies to combatants caught on the battlefield and respecting the rules of warfare (i.e. wearing a uniform, amongst other things). Mr. Theissen is entirely correct, the Geneva Convention does not apply to Umar Farouq Abdulmuttalab.
Robert Waldmann wrote:
Mr Thiessen is either not familiar with US law or, more likely, has utter contempt for the rule of law.
He wrote that
Umar Farouq Abdulmuttalab
“is an enemy combatant, who tried to commit an act of war against the United States of America.” and implies that, therefore, he can be forced to talk.
In fact, under the Geneva conventions (which are ratified and therefore US law according to the Constitution) enemy combatents may be forced to reveal only their name rank and serial number.
Captured enemy combatents may also be subject to trial as war criminals. The 5th amendment plainly applies to such trials (it contains no ifs ands or buts).
What Thiessen wants is a President who considers himself to be above the law and the constitution.
In this case, he thinks that someone can be declared an *unlawful* combatent by executive fiat and that such a declaration eliminates that person’s fifth amendment rights. This is true to exactly the same extent that President Obama can lock Mr Thiessen up indefinately without trial, that is, not at all.

Posted by: Bob-O | January 6, 2010, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm

‘The War on the War on Terror’ – I gather by your post the name is meant to be ironic.
Interesting how you see incentives.
Commit murder in broad daylight, rob a bank – let’s see you take a stab at testing out all these additional rights and protections that you will be afforded. You jokes make it seem like the justice system is one big party. Dip your foot in the pool, see how you like prison life.

Posted by: nameit23 | January 6, 2010, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm

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