Does Killing Democratic Legislation Create ‘Certainty’?: Behind Closed Doors of President Obama’s Bipartisan Meeting

You have 342 comments on the Gibbs hand joke thread. I’m # 2, talking about the Gibbs Hand joke thread. I don’t think many people are interested in Obama’s bipartisan meetings.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Since none of them know what they’re doing (especially the administration) I’d be happy if they announced they were going to do absolutely nothing, NOTHING for at least the next 24 months. It’s the uncertainty that’s causing a big part of the problem. Small businesses are in self-preservation mode right now, forget about growing or hiring. They don’t need loans, they need government to stay out of their business.

I guess we could ask the question.. what power does the executive branch of government have..
Maybe the reason it needs to be slow and deliberative is that.. once it has passed and enacted .. it seem irreversible..

===Wow President Obama taking the Congressional GOP to school AGAIN. ===
As Obama’s nominee for card check is rejected by the senate. Obama can school the GOP all he wants. The GOP is winning.

Anyone who thinks that the problems with our economy are solely due to too much government intervention is too stupid to own a business.

There is nothing in Obama’s budget, nor internal working documents that indicate he is really behind drilling, or clean coal. Nothing. Boehner and McConnell won this one, BTW.

Wow President Obama taking the Congressional GOP to school AGAIN.
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Yes. He did.
I like this: “Your argument is that if we don’t pass health care reform or energy legislation then that amounts to certainty, the president said.
No, no, said Boehner.”
Liar. LOL. Either that or he can’t follow his own lack of logic.

I like this: “Your argument is that if we don’t pass health care reform or energy legislation then that amounts to certainty, the president said.
No, no, said Boehner.”
Liar. LOL. Either that or he can’t follow his own lack of logic.
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No.
Obama is pretending there are only two options.
Boehner is saying the issues should be settled. That doesn’t mean they should be settled in the way Obama wants them settled.
There are several issues. Uncertainty is one huge problem. But part of the uncertainty is that businesses are afraid BAD policy will be passed.

Obama needs to continue to seek public, unscripted debate with Congressional Republicans. Call their bluff. Obama has the facts and a fine ability to debate on his side. Behind closed doors meetings are pretty pointless.

Fascinating stuff here. Too bad the GOP refuses to have these discussions in the open and in front of their beloved C-SPAN cameras.

I’ve never seen such a lack of American Pride than in the Republic Party of NO! They have no ideas, no plans, no legislation, no health care options, no leadership and that includes Palin and McCain who are nothing but “talkaholics”! McCain want even vote in the affirmative for legislation he co-sponsors! No, No, No! No More Republicans will be elected from my state!

The adminstration did mot permit C-Span to broadcast the closed-door-sessions during Nov. and Dec. The public was not given the opportunity to hear any debate during this period of negotiations. It’s crystal clear now why the doors are being flung open in 2010.

The adminstration did mot permit C-Span to broadcast the closed-door-sessions during Nov. and Dec.
ivoteny | Feb 9, 2010 6:01:34 PM
So after the most transparent bill process in history, it was an utter failure because the final internal party strategy sessions were closed doors? OK – we’ll have to remember that unprecedentedly high bar and apply it equally to future administrations, right? Most transparent ever in the history of our nation (NAME a bill that had more hours of debate and amendment televised, more committee drafts released, town halls in almost every district, etc) is just not good enough.

“Obama needs to continue to seek public, unscripted debate with Congressional Republicans. Call their bluff. Obama has the facts and a fine ability to debate on his side. Behind closed doors meetings are pretty pointless.”
Agreed.

“Obama needs to continue to seek public, unscripted debate with Congressional Republicans. Call their bluff. Obama has the facts and a fine ability to debate on his side. Behind closed doors meetings are pretty pointless.”
Agreed.
Posted by: Ryan C | Feb 9, 2010 6:09:33 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Count me in! I’m all for it, lol. I’d also like to see Obama do a few unscripted Q & A sessions with some local Chamber of Commerce members.

Stimulus money? Government contracts? ;)

Count me in! I’m all for it, lol. I’d also like to see Obama do a few unscripted Q & A sessions with some local Chamber of Commerce members.
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That would be great.
I liked his unscripted Q&A with doctors at the ABC health care forum.
I wouldn’t mind him doing an unscripted Q&A with every business/group he seeks to regulate or publicly denigrates in a speech.

“Cap and trade and HCR are huge concerns to small business. Literally life and death for many of them.”
How does cap and trade affect small business?
And why would a small business be upset by a government takeover of healthcare (I am assuming you think small biz is operating out of the fear of such an arrangement)?

from my small business experience and customers, the uncertainity with legislation is weighing heavily on decions and the potential impact is being factored into their decisions.
scott jeffries | Feb 9, 2010 6:26:35 PM
What uncertainty SPECIFICALLY? The tax climate is known, the carbon trading bill has both been shelved and would have a far smaller impact than normal energy market fluctuations, and the health care bill would not impact small businesses. This is why Obama should welcome every chance for public debate with Republicans – can YOU go beyond a shallow bumper sticker and provide specific examples?
The biggest uncertainty is if Republicans are willing to actively hurt the economy with their obstructionism just to have soundbites for their next campaign (in the same way they actively protected Bin Laden in the 90′s for the sake of a “Monica Missiles!” soundbite).

Count me in! I’m all for it, lol. I’d also like to see Obama do a few unscripted Q & A sessions with some local Chamber of Commerce members.
jennifert7 | Feb 9, 2010 6:15:34 PM
Oh please. You probably want him to help out your local Girl Scout troop distribute cookies too. And you would never believe that a town hall with Chamber of Commerce members was actually unscripted anyway – you can’t blow off his being questioned live (except on Fox who got embarassed for their party and cut away) by House Republicans. Debating the Republican members of Congress (has any President EVER taken unscripted questions, televised live, from the opposition caucus as Obama has now done)(twice) is the only course the paranoid Right can’t dismiss as a stunt.

I’ve got a bridge for sale!
9.7 | Feb 9, 2010 6:56:23 PM
LOL. A perfect encapsulation of the strength of Republicans current arguments! I’m sure you’ll move onto your compelling “yo mama” rebuttals next.

(in the same way they actively protected Bin Laden in the 90′s for the sake of a “Monica Missiles!” soundbite)
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I’ve asked you for any evidence of Clinton’s desire to go after Bin Laden after that one incident, any evidence their comments obstructed that incident, and for evidence that the GOP stopped him in any future incidents.
So far you’ve produced nothing, though you are obviously quite taken with your own soundbite.

Posted by: Shoe | Feb 9, 2010 7:06:34 PM
Barry and Co. just want to cram it through so the Feds can run stuff just as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, or the USPS, or the Dept of Education…

And why would a small business be upset by a government takeover of healthcare (I am assuming you think small biz is operating out of the fear of such an arrangement)?
I can’t imagine why!
The other day…
A Tale Both Positive and a Cautionary: President Obama’s Phantom $15 Billion Program for Small Businesses
A $15-30 billion program for small businesses and no details have been released?

And why would a small business be upset by a government takeover of healthcare
______________________________________
Faulty premise makes for a faulty argument.

Yes, people want reform, but not necessarily THIS reform bill.
Posted by: Shoe | Feb 9, 2010 7:06:34 PM
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There is no “THIS” reform bill. There are 2 bills that would be reconciled into a 3rd. This is where input from all interested parties can be accommodated.
The Republicans should bring their best ideas to the table and forget about the politicking.
Their obstructionism is not helping anyone. And it’s becoming more and more obvious its posturing for partisan, Republican political gain.

“The most alarmist conservative distortion of Cap and Trade has its impact less than already-seen oil, electricity and natural gas price fluctuations, and HCR would have an overall beneficial impact on small businesses. But that’s just based on, you know, documented reality.”
Distortion? Beneficial impact? Documented reality? You mean the documented reality you choose to ignore?
January 2008:
“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket,” Obama told the San Francisco Chronicle. “Coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.”
So tell us, oh wise jhw539, how do skyrocketing energy prices benefit businesses and consumers already struggling in a horrific recession?

“The most alarmist conservative distortion of Cap and Trade has its impact less than already-seen oil, electricity and natural gas price fluctuations, and HCR would have an overall beneficial impact on small businesses. But that’s just based on, you know, documented reality.”
Distortion? Beneficial impact? Documented reality? You mean the documented reality you choose to ignore?
January 2008:
“Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket,” Obama told the San Francisco Chronicle. “Coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.”
So tell us, oh wise jhw539, how do skyrocketing energy prices benefit businesses and consumers already struggling in a horrific recession?

“Name ONE Republican filibuster in 2009. Just one.”
We had over 100 in 2009.
Including the filibustering of a defense bill before Christmas to deny debate time to health care.
If you want to know what they were just look up cloture vote 111th congress.
You’ll get the Senate website and can search on your own.

Screw bipartisanship. The pundits and the polls don’t know squat. The people are going to go ‘Anti-Empire’ Third Party starting in 2010 and exploding in 2012.
– New ‘Anti-EMPIRE’ Clubs/Leagues/Movement to champion Green Party wins in
2010/12 elections:
Today, there is a massive, and intentional, misreading of the angst, anger,
and frustration of the American public.
In this post-2006 Democratic mid-term election victory/mandate and its
failure, post-2008 Obama election mandate and its failure, post-financial
9/15/08 ‘shock-doctrine’ and its economic failure, post-Scott Brown election
shock and its coming failure, and post-Tea Party movement and its coming
failure, average Americans are in a state of vast disappointment,
frustration, induced-fear, and serious concern over the direction and very
survival of their country.
According to the latest polls at least 58% believe the country is headed on
the ‘wrong track’, and all the supposed pundits are doing nothing but
reporting that the American public is frustrated, arguing among themselves
about whether the angry independents are really left-center or right-center,
and trying to understand what are the ‘hot issues’.
What no one in the media (including the internet’s supposedly alternative
media) is recognizing is that the American public senses that their country
has been taken over by something beyond their control — and they are
right. It has been taken over by a guileful and disguised EMPIRE, which
none among the pampered elite in the media, and political structure (of
either money corrupted party), want to disclose to the angry public.
The anger and angst is universal and undifferentiated from far left to far
right, and has taken form in the gut manner of the ‘Tea Party’ predominantly
on the reactionary right. Most of this frustration and activist anger is
reflective of the anger of early American colonialists, for whom the
movement is named, and is similar to the pre-revolutionary anger aimed at
the British Empire’s ‘royal governors’ and laws that taxed tea, stamps, and
other necessities without any representation. Among this modern ‘Tea Party’
mob the populist intensity is great but the understanding of what they are
rebelling against is slim, since they do not understand that the true
oppressor and target of their rage should be the integrated Empire
itself —- something that America’s founders better understood.
The frustration on the left is less intense but based on a far superior
historical and ideological understanding and focus of the impact of Empire,
particularly among the leading academics and intellectuals among both
principled progressives and anti-war libertarians. Currently, the broader
generic left and libertarian right’s attention and focus is divided and
distracted (perhaps intentionally by the Empire) on a plethora of
‘symptomatic issues’ like; health care, economic inequality, civil rights,
anti-war, environmentalism, judicial fairness, global warming, Gitmo, whales, clear
cutting, .. ad nauseam, which thus saps the movement from focusing on the
singular and seminal cause of all these symptom ‘issues’, problems, and
‘sorrows’ —- which IS Empire itself.
The first truly independent third party which refuses to take money from the
corporate/financial/militarist Empire, which publicly commits itself to
actually confront that Empire, and which secures the support of the growing
Anti-Empire movement in America will easily displace the dying inertia of
both the existing Republican and Democratic wings of the disgraced corporate
Empire’s phony parties, and secure a massive lead in political support from
all average Americans.
The existing corrupt political system of the two arrogant, elitist, and
unresponsive corporate Empire-controlled parties will collapse much more
quickly than the out-of-touch and elite pundits can imagine — just as the
Soviet Empire collapsed faster than the CIA and secret national intelligence
state imagined.
The path toward this collapse is already happening, and will accelerate
greatly as a new ‘Anti-Empire’ movement captures the attention and loyalty
of most average Americans who have been by-passed, disenfranchised, and
deserted by the current corrupt and ruling-elite corporate-financial Empire.
This overt and fast growing ‘Anti-Empire’ movement is springing quickly from
the same empathetic academic, intellectual, and artistic elements that
birthed the ‘Anti-Imperialism’ and ‘populist progressive’ movements of the
late 19th century — when corporate, banking, financial, and ‘trust’
interests first tried to take over control of our American political
democracy.
The ‘Tea Party’ has already tapped into the energy of anger that will swell
the Anti-Empire movement, but the Tea Party movement has not yet recognized
that the basis of their populism is actually Anti-Empire anger. In fact,
the Tea Party still wrongly thinks that their appeal is only
anti-government, and does not realize that, like the American Revolution,
the battle is one of democratic self-government precisely against Empire in
all its indivisible corruption of political, economic, financial, and
military power — of which the economic is the most cancerous element in
the tumor of Empire.
The Green Party, and its more intelligent leaders, already understand the
primacy of the economic/financial core tumor of Empire, and realize that all
the deceits and oppressions of the corrupted political and military sphere
of the current ‘Vichy’ government swell from the economic death-spiral of
the Empire. Thus the Green Party already fore-swears all corporatist
financial bribes, adheres to a consistent platform that aligns with the
majoritarian views of all average Americans, and can best leverage and
benefit from a wide-spread and energetic populist ‘Anti-Empire’ centered
movement.
Naturally, the Green Party can not simply sit back and expect this growing
‘Anti-Empire’ popularity and election winning opportunity of being the
successful third party of 21st century America to fall in its lap. First
the Green Party needs to forcefully grasp the mantle of Anti-Empire
leadership, then expose and educate all average Americans about the real
nature of Empire as the seminal cause of all our separate ‘issues’, ‘sorrows’,
and problems (both foreign and domestic), and then clearly define
non-violent programs to un-plug America from its “Empire Illusions” and
regain the path toward the light of America’s peaceful, progressive, and
inclusive journey to sustainable and equitable prosperity for all.
The role of all Americans who already sense and understand the opposing
‘dark path’ of Empire’s inevitable death-spiral is to develop the
educational and motivational ‘Anti-Empire’ clubs, leagues, and movement that
will feed and support the birth of a Green Anti-Empire Party for the
survival of the country that we all love.
Alan MacDonald

Ryan C,
Cloture motions end debate.
A filibuster is denying a vote for cloture by continuing debate, in order to deny a vote on the matter at hand.
Motion to cloture can be overidden to continue debate.
A filibuster is used to stop a vote.
There were no Republican filibusters in 2009.
The lesson as always? Left wingers lie.
But we knew that.

Today, only a few hours ago, the routine nomination of Craig Becker to the NLRB was defeated in a filibuster.

A filibuster is denying a vote for cloture by continuing debate, in order to deny a vote on the matter at hand.
Mary | Feb 9, 2010 8:30:23 PM
This is just utterly wrong. It is impossible to prevent a vote for cloture by filibustering. Indeed, the filibuster is just a tactic that is commonly defined by counting failed cloture votes.

So tell us, oh wise jhw539, how do skyrocketing energy prices benefit businesses and consumers already struggling in a horrific recession?
Mary | Feb 9, 2010 8:08:25 PM
A few important points to note: Cap and trade IS NOT BEING PASSED IN A RECESSION. It’s shelved. This was obvious and announced when it was formally excluded from using the reconciliation process. Why don’t you dredge up lies about the fairness doctrine being alive next?
Actually studies, using numbers and everything, have found the increased cost predicted under the cap and trade bill would be less than the Bush energy cost shocks.
And unlike the Bush energy shocks, the increase in price will be directed to the US budget, where it can pay down the debt, rather than a bunch of tribal desert countries that house many who want to murder us. (Not to mention the natural market forces would work to continuously reduce consumption over time.)

AP) Senate Democrats circulated a jobs bill Tuesday that’s light on new initiatives on boosting hiring and heavy with provisions sought by lobbyists for business groups, doctors and the satellite broadcasting industry.
The 362-page measure is still in draft form and has not been officially released. It has bipartisan backing but very few new ideas for creating jobs, other than a $10 billion plan to exempt companies from paying the employer’s share of Social Security payroll taxes for new hires if they are unemployed and hired this year.
Oh well typical day in the Senate

The IPCC reports are being shredded in the foreign press.
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Nonsense. One ‘fact’ in one report (about the rate of deterioration of Himalayan glaciers) has been withdrawn – that’s it. Nothing else was ‘shredded’.
As the President quite accurately stated, it’s time to close the gap between the rhetoric and the reality.
Capable of that?

I often think that Mr. Obama is a tricky man. When he was in the Senate for a short time, he didn’t want to work with anyone. Now he want everybody to work with him. It seems that it’s his way or we are not working together.

Nonsense. One ‘fact’ in one report (about the rate of deterioration of Himalayan glaciers) has been withdrawn – that’s it. Nothing else was ‘shredded’.
As the President quite accurately stated, it’s time to close the gap between the rhetoric and the reality.
Capable of that?
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Dear tierra, I’ve worked in scientific fields for twenty years. My livelihood is based on the scientific method, and in all modestly I’ve done quite well over the years. I’ve literally bet my life on my work with DoD combat systems by testing them in the field. The last two people in the world I care to be lectured from regarding things scientific are the President and you.
You need to read a little more. The glacier gaffe was just the tip of the iceburg (pun intended).

My livelihood is based on the scientific method,
Woody | Feb 9, 2010 9:37:41 PM
Sure it is. Your playground style debate and contempt for providing any actual facts makes that oh so clear.

ABC reports today that despite all the talk of green jobs, the overwhelming majority of stimulus money spent on wind power has gone to foreign companies, according to a new report by the Investigative Reporting Workshop at the American University’s School of Communication in Washington, D.C. Nearly $2 billion in money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has been spent on wind power, funding the creation of enough new wind farms to power 2.4 million homes over the past year. But the study found that nearly 80 percent of that money has gone to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines.
Even with the infusion of so much stimulus money, a recent report by American Wind Energy Association showed a drop in U.S. wind manufacturing jobs last year.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., called the flow of money to foreign companies an outrage, because the stimulus, he said, was intended to create jobs inside the United States.
Yes We Can.

McConnell said
Posted by: GO
well, that settles it then..
re: healthcare bill.
just ignore that 40% increase in insurance rates in Ca…. coming to a theater near you

Why is Obama so entirely focused on this health care business while giving scant attention to creating jobs? His lukewarm, half-hearted gestures towards creating jobs shows that he is incompetent to do what needs to be done. Obama is a dreamer, that’s all he is. Jobs will not materialize out of thin air.
He is too incompetent to do the difficult thing and tell the environmentalists, unions, and activist groups to step aside for America’s job boom. He can’t do this so he twiddles his thumbs on a health care program.
Obama needs to cut federal regulations, union controls, and environmentalist red tape while permanently lowering taxes on all Americans, even on the rich. These are the job killing obstacles that have a stranglehold on our economy.
Loosen up federal restrictions to increase manufacturing, drilling for oil, commercial fishing, farming, and forestry, create incentives for large companies to create jobs and increase salaries – not by taxing them to death, decrease wasteful spending and bureaucracy to accomplish goals in DC – taxing people is the easy way out of solving our nation’s problems. The only solution is to cut the red tape that has tied our country down for the last few decades and get our country producing again. We GROW our way out of a recession not SPEND our way deeper into debt.

McConnell said
Posted by: GO
well, that settles it then..
re: healthcare bill.
just ignore that 40% increase in insurance rates in Ca…. coming to a theater near you
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If that healthcare bill does pass then unless you’re a member of a union not only CA but the rest of the states (will the possible exception of Nebraska) would also be getting a 40% premium increase “coming to a noationwide theater near you.