Health Care Summit: Obama Calls for ‘Spirit of Good Faith’ Without ‘Political Theater’

Anything initiated by Obama will be treated as theater by Republicans. Republicans want to make Obama look bad pure and simple and could care less about Health Care…They want power…that is all…and they see political advantage in demeaning the President….Congress is broken and will never be fixed until people wake up and work to nominate statesman and not political hacks.

He will show the american people once again what a liar and what a dictator he really is. If he is not willing to to scrap the bills already written and start fresh with both parties at the table it will only show that the dems are the real party of no. They already had the jobs bill put together on a bipartisan plan but Reid decided he wanted to change it. So who is really the party of no? They will try to ram their own bill allowing 50 people make the decision for 300 million this people is called tyranny the same thing obama said in 2005 when the dems used filibuster to stop the appointment of 2 chief justices. Fact check this dictator and you will see what a liar and corrupt man he truly is.

Larry, I agree 100 percent…What mandate? This leaking of controlled bits of information from the WH is absolutely meant to confuse, distract or otherwise interfere with clarity on the bill.
I want to know more too, I am a health care provider and everyone I work with is completly infuriated with this process. No one knows where this will take us…
I want more mandate information and I’m not hearing it from the press. I hope the republicans are paying attention.

Obama Calls for ‘Spirit of Good Faith’ Without ‘Political Theater…… If Obama were truly serious about this comment then he would flatly state his refusal to sign any Bill brought forward by reconciliation. Otherwise this is a Helenist Trojan Horse simply for show, and the opportunity to say “See I tried, I an so open but those Repubs are the party of No. Therefore I will sign a reconciliation Bill. Well, we are not that dumb anymore and hopefully the media will expose your strategy to manipulate America.

indy voter,
we feel your pain, but statesmen like…nancy p and harry reid? c’mon, you make it sound like our problems stem from the gop when it’s really a bipartisan issue, and starts right at the white house. the most political animal i have ever seen is b. obama.

ABC, do you really think you are the only resource that we have? We know Dems are already talking about reconciliation. There will be no true bipartisanship going on here. It will still have the bribes, but by YOUR account, Obama will have tried.

Remember the UNPAID for MEDICARE ADVANTAGE PROGRAM….FOR SENIORS IN OUR COUNTRY….WELL……sorry it was a “BAIT and SWITCH” move by the Republicans in the last administration…The private insurance conmpanies such as Humana, Got the Contracts for the Plan D part of Medicare..Well the cost of MEDICARE ADVANTAGE HAS WENT UP FOR SENIORS 14% SINCE IT START SO FEW YEARS AGO. Imagine what they’ll be paying in 3 more years under this plan!

There is nothing in the “reform” that will stop premium rate hikes. There are things in the “reform” that will guarantee rate hikes for many.
Really, he needs to stop saying things like this. People can hear him at other events where he blatantly blames Republicans. He can’t then turn around and pretend in a videotape that he’s Mr. Goodwill.
It’s so condescending, and it’s infuriating to the people he is pretending to reach out to.

First you should watch the summit and then make your comment. Be open minded
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The summit is not day 1 of Obama’s presidency. It isn’t a new starting point. He has a history, including yesterday, of blaming Republicans.
There are also 2 bills on the table that he strongly supports. He does not intend to start from scratch. So no, there is nothing in his reform so far that changes the situation he is trying to scare Americans about.

Maybee…I think you need to do a little studying up on the “budget math” of the next 10 years and see what rapidly increasing health care costs do to your future – you might be a little less arrogant AND a lot more scared.

Have any of your heard what Rahm Emanuel had to say on this yesterday? This is what truly shows how poisonous this administration is.
Emanuel, President Obamas own chief of staff, said that even though they are going to ram this bill through via reconciliation, the political capital, party seats, and administration strength this will cost will be huge!
In otherwords, they know this will destroy their party in November, and they know this might just make Obama a one term President, but they are doing it ANYWAY!!!
That my friends, is what we call political suicide. This is equal to a Kamikaze mission.
I am an Independent. I have voted for Democrats and Republicans alike, and unlike a lot of people, I have faith in the two party system, just as long as there are more realists (Bill Clinton, Evan Bayh, Joe Liberman on the left, John McCain, Mark Kirk,on the right) then there are ideologues (Glen Beck, Sarah Palin, Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi). However, once ideology completely replaces any form of pragmatism, it destroys the two party system, renders our government helpless to divisive debate and policy, and replaces all hope with anger.
As long as I have lived I have seen leaders who were not exactly the best at what they did (Jimmy Carter, Bush 43) but at the very least they were held in check with the reality that this country is at its base centrist, so there was only so far they could go or would be allowed to go. Yet, when an administration is practically admitting that they know the country is centrist, that what they purpose will cost them perhaps their very own jobs, and will further the divide in Washington, but are going to go forth anyway with a big middle finger the American public, that is not just angering, everyone… that is downright frightening, and is anything BUT democratic.

Another phoney balony politican…

The reform bills as they are now do not control those increasing health care costs.
So me being scared of them does not mean the bills Obama is pushing solves the problem.
Arrogant is telling people to be scared of something, then pushing a bill that doesn’t actually solve that problem.
Posted by: MayBee | Feb 20, 2010 10:59:44 AM
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I’m curious – how do you “know” this bill doesn’t control costs? Did you actually seek this info or is this more “Obama raised our taxes and Obama has spent more in one year than Bush ever did?” Both statements are about as untruthful as it gets. Arrogant? I was told daily to fear terrorists since 9/11 as garbage got shoved thru. They’re masters of this tactic on the right. Yeah, I’d agree they all use this. But republicans are completely gifted at it.

Clearly, being a Republican is a disease – not a “political conviction”…

As a republican for the past 9 years (since 2001) we have been responsible for:
*Gas prices that are more than doubled
*College costs have more than doubled
*US Debt more than tripled
*Worse recesssion in our lifetime
*Gas/oil company profits more than tripled
*Wall street bonuses more than tripled
*Unemployment more than doubled
*Homeless/needy more than doubled
*Gave 2 large tax breaks to those making more than $1 million a year
*Bush invasion/occupation of Iraq at an estimated cost of $2 trillion dollars
*Largest defense spending (>$700 billion) in the world – more than the next 15 countries combined
*We will say and do anything for the republican party as long as it does not benifit the majority
Yep we have sure done a good job for the party and we will be rewarded with more power in 2010.

“I’m curious – how do you “know” this bill doesn’t control costs? Did you actually seek this info….”
Posted by: secondlook | Feb 20, 2010 11:11:08 AM
Because the head of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says so, dimwit.
—Asked by the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee about his remarks to a Senate committee earlier Thursday that the legislation would not hold down healthcare costs, Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Elmendorf said, “The point I made earlier this morning is that it raises future federal outlays more than it reduces future federal outlays.”
Elmendorf told the panel, “The coverage proposals in this legislation would expand federal spending on health care to a significant degree and in our analysis so far we don’t see other provisions in this legislation reducing federal health spending by a corresponding degree.”—(Reuters)
The lesson as always, is that Liberals lie–and they don’t do their homework.

Greed and Corruption run rampant during Republican administrations – because Republicans do not like or respect any rules, regulations or laws. The economy crashed on the Republican watch! If there were problems during the eight years of Bush-Cheney, then why didn’t the Republicans address those problems?? Answer: Republicans condone and encourage greed and corruption. Put another way: Even thought they keep trying, Republicans are indefensible, but then that is what right-wing propaganda is all about – making a lot of noise to hide their incompetence, mismanagement, corruption and abuse of power…

Posted by: Chris-Chicago | Feb 20, 2010 10:57:11 AM
Public Policy Polling:
“37% of Americans say they will definitely not vote Democratic for Congress this year. 34% say they definitely will and that leaves roughly 30% of the country up for grabs.
Right now 50% of voters say they oppose President Obama’s health care plan to just 39% in support. Digging a little deeper on those numbers though 64% of respondents planning or open to voting Democratic this fall support it with only 22% opposed. The overall numbers are negative only because of 94/1 opposition among folks who have said there is no way they’ll vote Democratic this fall.”
Worth noting that of those open to voting Democratic this fall, the reasons they oppose health care reform are vastly different from those of the voters who won’t vote Democrat no matter want.
Just sayin’.
And there’s no way in heck that Obama has been more partisan or divisive or less “democratic” than Bush-Cheney.

A clear majority of Americans do not see Republicans as stalling health care. On the contrary they recognize that this administration’s ability to get their programs passed begins and ends within democratic party caucuses, which run the full gamut from extremist left to blue dog democrat. The republicans are far less varied in their viewpoint makeup, which is why they tend to vote solidly party line against whatever the democrats put up. I don’t like Obama’s scolding and reprimanding our elected leaders. It’s arrogant and frankly alienating talk that ensures his party’s demise come November 2010. In the eyes of most Americans now, he’s seen as ineffective-to-inept, with a clear majority determined to remove democrats this November before removing him in November, 2012. Good luck, democrats, you had a clear mandate from the people, you just attached the wrong candidate to the top of the ticket. It should’ve been Mrs. Clinton, who was prepared to lead from day one.

I can remember when people were ashamed to be on welfare or public assistance as it was called. Today people want to be taken care of cradle to grave. My Mother worked 2 jobs to raise 3 boys the best she could alone, she didn’t take a hand out from anyone. She put a work ethic in my brothers and myself, and a sense of self reliance. When I see everyone today wanting the government wanting to take care of their every need it sticks in my crawl
nothing else. LBJ created the welfare state and ruined this nations backbone. And it’s gotten worse over time.

At what point do arguments for or against a proposed piece of legislation become “talking points”? The main objections I have to this bill are that it doesn’t address the cost of health care and it seeks to compensate for it by forcing participation in what should be a voluntary program. Regardless of how many people are paying premiums, as health care costs continue to increase so will the premiums for the insurance that pays for them. In time health care coverage will be right back where it is today with unaffordable premiums or the necessity of caps on benefits and/or non-coverage of certain conditions. Find and fix the causes for the high costs of health care if you want a real solution.

No Public Option.. and all the other usual talking points about commies and blah, blah, blah
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The public option polls well actually. And if you read what Olympia Snowe has said in interviews, the President has always been reasonable, pragmatic and open to ideas.
Problem is… the Republicans again say they’re not willing to put any ideas out there. The only with guts appears to be Paul Ryan. His own party is unwilling to stand up and support his bills or ideas.
Eric Cantor takes the cake. I admit I had to chuckle that Paulson has openly acknowledged what many of us have known for a long time: “Meetings with Senate Republicans were a complete waste of time for us.” And he points out, more or less, that Eric Cantor isn’t all that sharp.

Mr. Obabble, the American people don’t want what you’re selling. A fresh start is what is called for, let’s see who’s the obstructionist here.

Sentinal1946:”This is from a conservative web site: “Bush Administration Mortgages U.S. to Red China Over NAFTA Trade, by Jerome R. Corsi, …”
I see you’re a big Jerome Corsi fan. Did you enjoy “Obamanation” and “Unfit for Command”? They both made the NYT Best Sellers list. Or are you just cherry-picking his critique of Bush policies?

Grow up America! We gave George W. Bush eight years to fail us, yet we won’t give President Obama four years to try and succeed? A lot can happen in the next 2.5 years, and I am willing to give our President the time he needs to get it right.

Grow up America! We gave George W. Bush eight years to fail us, yet we won’t give President Obama four years to try and succeed? A lot can happen in the next 2.5 years, and I am willing to give our President the time he needs to get it right.
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Hysterical and true if your initials are GM:
NEW YORK (AP) — General Motors Co. CEO Ed Whitacre will receive a salary of $1.7 million this year, plus stock awards that will bring his total pay package to $9 million at a later date, the automaker said Friday.
In a surprise announcement, GM also said former CEO Fritz Henderson has been rehired as a consultant. Henderson, who was forced out of the job in December, will work 20 hours a month and will be paid $59,090 a month, the company said.
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Thanks for your donation!

Nice try Mr. President… but the Republicans have been ALL about political theater since they became a minority. They are screaming like divas… or like the guy whose football team is losing the game. They don’t care what is right… they only care who is in charge.
History shows, they (the right) will win seats this mid-term. It happens ALL the time. It’s what they do with it that will matter.
Congress take note… the average American is watching you.

one thing wrong with your logic. Do you think that Social Security or Medicare (two government programs who have worked well for our nation over the years) started out PERFECTLY.
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I have no idea why you think I’m a “purist”.
My logic is not that Obama’s bills don’t start out “perfectly”. It’s that they don’t fix the problem Obama is using to scare people into supporting the bill. It is Obama’s choice to use the rhetoric he is using, and it is the proper thing to do to point out that he is not being forthright with us. Telling Republicans they need to stop being political about this doesn’t make his bills solve the problems they aren’t designed to solve.
As for social security and medicare– they neither started out “perfectly” nor are they perfect now. Medicare is bankrupting our country, as President Obama is fond of saying. It has tens of trillions of dollars in unfunded mandates looming ahead of us.
Just doing something is not the same as doing something well.

Obama want us to be bi-partisan about a bad plan. Scrap the current plan.
Remember when they tried to rush this terrible plan through by last August 1st without debate?
This plan will never be bi-partisan. It is just bad. That is why it is stalled.

Obama is trying to build procedural momentum to get this thing through, in a way that will make it inevitable, and the Republicans will just be swept along with the tide.
Listen, people don’t want this bill. They don’t want healthcare reform to be the number one agenda item of the President and Congress. They want a better climate for business and job creation.
They want spending programs CUT, not new spending programs instituted! Why is this so difficult?
Why is this so hard for everyone’s dense skulls to comprehend? No more huge spending bills, no more panels, review boards and staffs, cut, cut, cut. This is not rocket science.
Get the economy back on it’s feet, get jobs on an upswing, cut taxes, cut spending, limit government, AND THEN we’ll talk about healthcare reform.
Even if the GOP caves, the people will not tolerate, and will not accept Obamacare. Obviously reform is needed, but jobs and economy are more urgent right now. Obama can create all the momentum and inevitability he wants. This ain’t happening.
Obama’s pursuit of health reform could prove to be the most disasterous political decision since the Great Depression. It might sink him, but not before it sinks the country.
You think Anthem insurance rate hikes are bad? Wait till you see the tax hikes to pay for Obamacare.

Obama Calls for ‘Spirit of Good Faith’ Without ‘Political Theater.’ Did Obama himself actually call for this, or was it his teleprompter?

America sees quite clearly that Repubs have been behind screwing this nation since they took congress over in ’96′
Contract with America to balance the budget went out the window when Bush was in office. Paygo tossed out the window and the spending frenzy began.
Now they have drug their feet on passing almost every piece of legislation and used it for political grandstanding.
This isn’t about Governing the US, or stopping socialism, its not about reducing the deficit… they had plenty of chances to do that in 8+ years.
This is about Repubnots being out of touch with America… not having a clue what America wants because they run polls with loaded questions, they inspire fear and hate… not peace and prosperity.

As long as money continues to be stuffed into the pockets of politicians by the health care industry, you’ll never see “good faith” in anything they do with health care. They are loyal to the insurance industry, not the people that elected them. If you want good faith in government, throw all of them out, impose term limits, and ban all corporate lobbying, contributions, donations, and third party viaducts (soft money) to these self serving worms we elected. Nothing short of that will give you honest government or good faith.

President Obama, I absolutely implore you to stop pandering to the Republicans now. Hasn’t it become obvious to you yet (as it has to the rest of us) that they are not interested in doing anything that will help the American people or economy?
Their one and only concern is getting themselves re-elected.
They simply DON’T CARE about “good faith.” “Bi-partisan” means nothing to them. The only term they’re interested in is “obstructionism.”
Sir, this isn’t the change I voted for.

If “good faith” is doing strictly what BO wants, then what he means is “blind faith.”
We need a good plan, not this crap the Dems have been trying to shove down our throats. Get to work, pols – put together a good plan!

It is clear that Republicans are bribed by insurance companies. Media and news are bribed too. Insurance companies can raise payments and do whatever they want because nobody controls them. Obama wants make things better but insurance companies tries to confuse people.

The most divisive President in the history of the United States of America calls for “good faith” efforts?
LOL!!!
What a freakin’ MORON!!!!
Resignation or seppuku… you’re choice, Obama. Since you don’t have the ability to accept responsibility, you won’t do either, so in 255 more days, we hang a LAME DUCK sign around your neck, and you can sport THAT in front of the cameras for your LAST two years in the White House!!

They need to price health insurance just like life insurance. When you are young your rates are low, as you age and become more likely to use it your rates should go up. Actually they need to do away with health insurance and change it back to accident insurance as it was prior to the 70s.
No society can afford to provide health insurance to the population. Every single person, unless they die early and with a quick death, will use up more than they pay in. It is a losing proposition for any society.

Oh, NOW he wants good faith…I guess when ramming it didn’t work, he now takes the high road…what a bunch of political BS from this man!

Go ahead Mr. President, try to ram this monstrosity down our throats.
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What is with the Republican right’s oral fixation? Over and over we see it come to the surface.

You guys just don’t get it! America is broke. The government is operating on borrowed money! We, as a nation, do not have the money to pay for ANY more government programs! Period! The spending in D.C. NEEDS to STOP NOW!!!!!!!

We, as a nation, do not have the money to pay for ANY more government programs!
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Health care is bankrupting the nation.
While the insurance companies skim off the cream insuring the young, the healthy and the employed, the government is left to carry the enormous costs of the old, the sick, the indigent, the injured in war and so on.

Get real people!!!!! The President of the United States of America, Has less power to get things done than people realize!!!! Congress passes the laws and the president can either sign them or veto them!!!! BUT!!!!!!! Congress can still over ride the Presidents veto with two thirds majority of votes!!! Don’t you people already know this??? It’s in the Constitution of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!!!!!!! Congress can also put bills on the floor of Congress, without the Presidents aprovel or disaprove. Congress runs the show and always has!!!!!! The president doesn’t!!!!!

Do it, Mr. President. That way you’ll be certain to destroy your party with a disasterous 2010 election rout.

When the GOP meets at the healthcare summit, will it post its proposal on the web too? Oh, wait! There is no such thing from the GOP…

Sir, Mr. President, it will not happen.
When you boil it all down the two political parties haven’t changed in 140 years. The Democrats have been a party whose philosophy has been people come first. While the Republicans as a party have always put the interests of big business ahead of all others regardless of the cost to everyone else, even when the interests of the nation conflict with their ideology.
Republicans cannot change. If they did it would be an admission of failure, a 140-year failure. That is why the neo-cons and Reaganites controlling the Republican Party would rather destroy our society then compromise.

Re: “It is not patriotic to ask 10% of our taxpayers to pay more than 70% of all our taxes, while almost 50% pay nothing.
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The top 1% of the population earn as much as all of the bottom 85% combined. Can you say oligarchy boys and girls? That’s rule by the rich.”
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Why are you so concerned, or envious, about others? Some people are successful, some aren’t. A few are born with silver spoons in their mouths, some with crack pipes. But there is no lack of Opportunity in this country – I still see recent legal immigrants roaring up the socio-economic ladder in my area. Their secret? Hint: it’s not too complicated, but it’s something lost on the libs. They have an unbelievable work and education ethic. They don’t complain, they just work incredibly hard to succeed. Libs, on the other hand, have the mentality that everyone owes them something for their failures. Instead of taking personal responsibility, they need to bring down “the man” to “level the playing field” and obtain “social justice”. Losers, losers, losers.

The top 1% of the population earn as much as all of the bottom 85% combined. Can you say oligarchy boys and girls? That’s rule by the rich.”
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Oh, it most certainly is rule by the rich – who do you think are paying all those lobbyists fees, political junkets and other stuff that buys off politicians to serve THEIR interests? Who do you think are the entrenched interests fighting for the status quo?

Some of you people will never see reality!!!!! Obama has been stuck with these problems. But you people blame him for these problems!!!!!! Where have you been for the last decade, breathing in toxic waste????!!!!!!!!! But, I guess that’s what Republicans do best!!!!!!!!! Suck it in and blow it out!!!!!!!

When the rich are attacked, millions of jobs are lost.
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In the United States, the top 1% earn as much as all of the bottom 85% combined. And they’re complaining about how unfair things are?

Oh, it most certainly is rule by the rich
Posted by: tierra | Feb 20, 2010 3:00:47 PM
Shaq is very rich and I don’t see him influencing the likes of Chris Dodd.
I think you have the wrong view of who is “rich” and paying taxes. If we went by your standard, Oprah would be in that group, too. Right? I don’t see Oprah as a big problem in the political influencing realm. being rich in itself is not a bad thing – but you seem to think so.
It is the executives in the financial companies that influence politicians. They may or may not be in that top 1%.

Hey, hey . . . I’m not the one whining about protecting the top 1%! Nor am I the one whining about protecting the top 5%.

When the top 1% owns and earns as much as the bottom 85% combined, a simple shift of their resources can sink an economy – usually for their own benefit.

When the rich are attacked, millions of jobs are lost.
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In the United States, the top 1% earn as much as all of the bottom 85% combined. And they’re complaining about how unfair things are?
Posted by: tierra | Feb 20, 2010 3:12:26 PM
The top 1% can easily sit by the sidelines when they are unsure of the direction of the country. If they feel they are being vilified and attacked for being fat cat capitalists, they are not likely to take risks and invest in the future. Jobs are lost and/or not created. This is what CW is talking about here. The top 1% are not complaining – but they are not going to invest their fortunes only to have it lost or taken away.
Most Americans understand this. Observers from other countries do not.

Maybe it’s the country where you actually live. Some of this is jealousy.
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Agree and envy won’t get us anywhere. Making the rich poor will never make the poor rich, but that doesn’t seem to be a concept everyone can grasp.

In brainless actions & thinking will come no positive outcome.
People who never come to think that Obama is just here to set us right.
Obama should have known better than to actually think the majority of republicans are going to come in “Good spirit & faith”
He should have thought better than that.
It would be for the best that the republicans and democrats actually find some common ground.
Cause if they don’t
It’s not only gonna be the Republicans sinking
We all gonna go down the Pretty Blue Dream. And none of us will see the American dream. Which is so typical, but still come on.

For The Record, Your getting a little smart aren’t you.
Only people who don’t have a weak argument get smart.
I don’t put up with smart mouths.

Re: “When the rich are attacked, millions of jobs are lost.
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In the United States, the top 1% earn as much as all of the bottom 85% combined. And they’re complaining about how unfair things are?”
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So what? Bill Gates is incredibly rich, certainly in the top 1%, but he innovated an entire industry – employs tens of thousands, and is indirectly responsible for millions more. He is one of the faceless “rich” that you libs love to attack.
It doesn’t matter how much wealth is at the top. What matters is that we encourage more Bill Gates-types to innovate and be successful, thus creating the wealth and the millions of new jobs that we need to recover. Obama and the left cannot attack Capitalism and magicaly expect jobs to appear.

Obama and the left cannot attack Capitalism and magicaly expect jobs to appear.
Posted by: libertyfirst1776 | Feb 20, 2010 3:38:33 PM
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Nobody is attacking capitalism. We are simply pointing out that in the United States, the top 1% earn as much as the bottom 85% combined!
Please quit whining on behalf of the top 1%.

Obama and his minders create political theater, attempt hyijacking government and negotiating back room Chicago style deals and then, when the American punlic says no, he whines. NO to government run health care.

Re: “Like Reagan, Bush ended his term with a severe economic collapse. Reagan saw the biggest stock market collapse since the Great Depression, the Bush Republicans eclipsed that.
And both oversaw huge increases in national debt and deficits due to their tax policies.
So – the Republicans build ‘strong’ economies that collapse, as well as huge increases in national debt and deficit. We won’t be voting for them again.”
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Sorry, but you are incorrect. Tax cuts ALWAYS result in increased Treasury revenue. It was proved again under Reagan and Bush.
Unfortunately, Congress is NEVER able to live within its means. Even though revenues increased dramatically, spending increased even more. Today, entitlement programs are responsible for 60% of government spending.
Reagan’s attempt was to “starve the Beast” of government, whereas Obama’s attempt is to “stuff the beast”, knowing full well that massive tax increases will be necessary to fund the growth in government.

Let’s not get irrational thinking going in on here.
If Bush ever had any growth would have been in the first two years. wouldn’t have mattered. He destroyed that.
People need to open their eyes. My grandpa did. He is racist. That normally would have meant that he would have voted for McCain. Obama is a good president. My grandpa voted for him. Racist think he is a good president.
You all who rant on Obama are probaly rich. Who want to make sure to keep their money.
Most republicans are greedy. Look at all Obama has been working on. He is talking with the LGTB community. Republicans didnt do nothing on that. When it came to money. Oh look they on top of it

Especially the President who said trickle down hasn’t worked so we need to try trickle up. Has a poor man every hired you?
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Trickle down didn’t work. As with Reagan, the Bush trickle down approach ended up with the crash of the economy on their shift – and the gross increase in national debt and deficits due to their tax policies.
Twice a recipe for calamity.
Posted by: tierra | Feb 20, 2010 3:46:29 PM
You didn’t answer my question. If you gave a poor man more money, would he hire you?

Are you arguing that Bawney Fwank didn’t oversee the collapse of Fannie and Freddie, the nexus of our meltdown?
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The person with responsibility for regulating Fannie and Freddie was Bush appointee and old school chum James B. Lockhart. He was very paid well and assured Bush everything was fine with the companies as they sunk further.

“Like Reagan, Bush ended his term with a severe economic collapse. Reagan saw the biggest stock market collapse since the Great Depression, the Bush Republicans eclipsed that.”
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The Dow closed at 891.41 at year end 1980 just after Reagan’s election and closed at 2060.82 at year end 1988 just after GHW Bush was elected. Reagan left Bush neither a crashed stock market nor a collapsed economy. If you’re referring to the Oct 1987 crash that was indeed the worst decline since the GD, but what did it have to do with Reagan?
The prime rate was 20.35% at year end 1980 and 10.5% at year end 1988. While economic growth in 1988 was negatively impacted by the 1987 crash, Reagan did not leave Bush with a collapsed economy.

While economic growth in 1988 was negatively impacted by the 1987 crash, Reagan did not leave Bush with a collapsed economy.
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Tell that to the normal people who lost much of their savings on that stock market crash – stock markets and economies collapsed under Republican presidents. The national debt and deficits soar under Republican presidents.

The person with responsibility for regulating Fannie and Freddie was Bush appointee and old school chum James B. Lockhart. He was very paid well and assured Bush everything was fine with the companies as they sunk further.
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Lockhard became Chairman of the Oversight Board of the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), the regulator of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the 12 Federal Home Loan Banks in June 2006. Bush is on record as having made repeated attempts to regulate Fannie and Freddie.
This from the notoriously right wing newspaper, the New York Times on September 11, 2003:
The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago.
Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry.
The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios.

Re: “The person with responsibility for regulating Fannie and Freddie was Bush appointee and old school chum James B. Lockhart. He was very paid well and assured Bush everything was fine with the companies as they sunk further.”
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From Vanity Fair’s “100 To Blame” article, regarding Barney Frank’s resistance to increased Regulator oversight. Frank, like Obama, is an ideologue who pursues his agenda regardless of the consequences. Collateral damage is apparently of no consequence in his pursuit of “social justice”.
On September 10, 2003, the House Committee on Financial Services met to hear the Treasury Department’s plea for a new, tougher regulator to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In Frank’s opening statement to the committee, he said:
I want to begin by saying that I am glad to consider the legislation, but I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis. That is, in my view, the two government-sponsored enterprises we are talking about here, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not in a crisis. We have recently had an accounting problem with Freddie Mac that has led to people being dismissed, as appears to be appropriate. I do not think at this point there is a problem with a threat to the Treasury.
I must say we have an interesting example of self-fulfilling prophecy. Some of the critics of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac say that the problem is that the Federal Government is obligated to bail out people who might lose money in connection with them. I do not believe that we have any such obligation. And as I said, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy by some people.
So let me make it clear, I am a strong supporter of the role that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac play in housing, but nobody who invests in them should come looking to me for a nickel—nor anybody else in the federal government. And if investors take some comfort and want to lend them a little money because they like this set of affiliations, good, because housing will benefit. But there is no guarantee, there is no explicit guarantee, there is no implicit guarantee, there is no wink-and-nod guarantee. Invest, and you are on your own.
Two weeks later, the Financial Services Committee met to consider a bill that would implement the Treasury Department’s recommendations. Frank voted against it, saying: “I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in O.C.C. [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and O.T.S. [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing.”

Tell that to the normal people who lost much of their savings on that stock market crash – stock markets and economies collapsed under Republican presidents. The national debt and deficits soar under Republican presidents.
================================
Reagan didn’t create the stock market crash. I lost money in that crash, but I didn’t sell so didn’t realize any losses. The market rebounded quickly and indeed regained all of its losses in just under two years.

While economic growth in 1988 was negatively impacted by the 1987 crash, Reagan did not leave Bush with a collapsed economy.
___________________________________
Tell that to the normal people who lost much of their savings on that stock market crash -
Posted by: tierra | Feb 20, 2010 4:05:45 PM
Which is why prudent investing is the key to success in the market. Invest for the long term and move money to safer investments as you near retirement. It works if you use it correctly. It doesn’t work if you treat it like a Vegas slot machine.

It’s been real – sorry to have to bug out.
In closing, if you are the type that wonders why the firepit isn’t roaring while you are pouring water on it, you are probably an Obama supporter. You can have either social justice-inspired policies, or job growth. Not both.
Join a Tea Party in your area and make a difference in November!

As for recessions in the 1981-1992 period, Reaganomics had failed miserably with a 12% unemployment level. Regardless the GOP kept pushing their failed philosophy just as hard as today. You just can’t teach these people anything.
===================================
There was one recession under Reagan lasting 16 months from July 1981 – Nov 1982; one under GHW Bush lasting 8 months from July 1990 – March 1991; one which began in 3q 2000, but is more popularly attributed to GW Bush beginning in March 2001 and ending November 2001; and the most recent beginning in 4q 2007 or 3 q 2008 (depending on who you believe) and continuing to this day. Recessions aren’t fun, but they are a normal part of the growth and contraction of the business cycle. It’s not all lollipops and unicorns out there.

Reagan didn’t create the stock market crash.
_____________________________________
Yes, we know. Reagan and Bush had nothing to do with the stock market crashes on their watch, Bush had nothing to do with the economic collapse on his watch, neither had anything to do with the tripled and doubled national debt, nor the exploded deficits . ..
The Republicans are responsible for nothing.

But, if you want to place blame on Reagan for crashing the market in 1987, please explain and document your theory.
_____________________________________
I am pointing out there were major stock market collapses (the biggest since the Great Depression) on the watch of Republican presidencies – and that these collapses occured after several years of their ‘economic’ policies.
And that in both cases, they hugely increased the national debt – Reagan’s policies tripled it, Bush’s policies doubled it.
And that in Bush’s case, there was a major economic collapse on his watch.
Returning to Republicans for ‘fiscal stability’ is a hoax.

Returning to Republicans for ‘fiscal stability’ is a hoax.
—
Who’s looking for fiscal stability? This country is looking for a LIFEBOAT and has finally realized that Obama isn’t it.
Surviving Borak Obama is Job #1.

“Returning to Republicans for ‘fiscal stability’ is a hoax.”
Not if conservatives who value limited government and strong states’ rights gain seats in the GOP.
Fiscal responsibility with any party is a hoax. Congress has been controlled by Democrats since 2006 and I see NO fiscal responsibility there either. With few exceptions, they are addicted to spending and power and the guilty ones must be removed – whichever party they belong to.
Conservatives want the government to be fiscally responsible. They want to regain seats as Republicans. I would also be happy to see fiscally responsible Democrats boot out the irresponsible Democrats.
Democrats do not want conservatives to take back the Republican Party. They want to push third-solutions to split the GOP.

It will be interesting to see what health plan the President and Democrats put up on the web. They should break it into bite size pieces for which both Republicans and Democrats should be allowed to support/reject with explaination. If they do then the American people will see who is for what and who is against what and why!

Let’s face it we haven’t had fiscal responsibility from either Democratic or Republican led Congresses. As conservatives we know that if we don’t have our fiscal house in order, we don’t stand a chance of changing the downward course we are currently on. An unlike liberals, we don’t believe that “social justice” is anything other than wealth redistribution.
Anyone else notice that not a single liberal poster has given an actual example of Keynesian economics succeeding? How DOES wealth trickle up?

Oh nonsense. We’re still trying to survive what happened on the Republican Bush watch – plunged deeply in debt to the Chinese followed by the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression. For you to attempt to blame it on the current President makes your posts look as if they aren’t worth reading . . .
======================================
Bush increased the debt by more than $2.5 trillion through 2008 and that includes the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Let both Bush and Obama share the responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt in 2009. Then take Obama’s 2009 budget which added $4.9 trillion from the beginning of 2010 through 2016. Talk about being owned by the Chinese.

Who has been running and ruining this society since 1968? Right-wingers. Until President Obama took office Democrats had been in charge only six years.
Posted by: Nova B | Feb 20, 2010 4:07:37 PM
It’s not the GOP’s fault Democrats can’t win an election. This is the people’s vote. If you don’t like it, get out the vote for your candidates!

Bush increased the debt by more than $2.5 trillion through 2008
Posted by: ConservativeWoman | Feb 20, 2010 6:48:21 PM
_________________________________
National debt when Bush takes office:
$5.725 Trillion
National debt when Bush leaves office:
$10.629 Trillion
Bush increase the national debt by almost $4.9 Trillion dollars.

Jesus H Christ. Get back to reality. The man has chosen the issue that’s destroying the democrats and you act as if their salvation lies in Ronald Reagan.
Let us discuss President Borak Obama.

If Congress doesn’t act, the president says, the future will include premium hikes like Anthem Blue Cross’ recently announced 39 percent hike, with the potential to get worse.
—————————————-
Cite me the page and paragraph of the healthcare bill that PREVENTS rates from going up

America has awoken to your lies and see this guy for the snakeoil salesmen he is..
_______________________________________
What the Republicans really want to do is put America to sleep so they don’t remember the ABSOLUTE mess the Republican administration of George Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others made . . .
Republicans haven’t promised any openness of government, haven’t promised to cut any spending – they haven’t promised anything.
Why? Because they were such failures last time.

Poor Obama, he has such stupid supporters. No wonder he’s a wreck!

Thank you for the clarification, Tierra. Now kindly explain how Obama adding another $4.9 bn to the debt from now through 2014 is going to help? Indeed an explanation of Keynesian economics and how it will work would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: ConservativeWoman | Feb 20, 2010 8:12:13 PM It wont help its the fact that the republicans change the rules whenever they want they lie right to your face and they expect us to be so stupid that we wont see it for what it really is. All the GOP wants is there power back PERIOD. They are willing to block whatever legislation that Obama trying to put out to make life better for the american people because if things get better under Obama they will not be able to say see things still suck vote for us in 2012. Its the same fear tactic they have used forever. Oh and think if they fear and stop the healthcare reform think you will be able to get insurance without paying over 1000 a month for it? Last year I was paying 165 every 2 weeks. Now this year I have to pay 394 every 2 weeks. Do the math and wake up! If the Insurance companies and the GOP get there way you will be paying 2000 a month for insurance by the end of next year. That is why they are trying tooth and nail to kill reform they are protecting there future profits.

The cheerleaders keep talking about everything except Obama’s policies and the public rejection that is rising everyday.
But Reconciliation is gonna fix everything.

The cheerleaders keep talking about everything except Obama’s policies and the public rejection that is rising everyday.
—
Uh, Mike?

The cheerleaders keep talking about everything except Obama’s policies and the public rejection that is rising everyday.
—
Uh, Mike?
Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 20, 2010 8:46:52 PM
Public rejection is rising because the GOP and health care Industry is spending MILLIONS of dollars to tell you that reform is bad for you. Fact is they are spending that money to trick you into beliving that they have your best interests in mind while they raise you premiums so high you cant afford insurance. They spend millions now so they can gain BILLIONS later. Oh fact they are already posting billion dollar profits while increasing your premiums 37 percent (ANTHUM BLUE SHIELD) hard to argue with hard facts isnt it?

Public rejection is rising because the GOP and health care Industry is spending MILLIONS of dollars to tell you that reform is bad for you.
Posted by: Mike | Feb 20, 2010 8:54:21 PM
So you’ve personally read the entire Health Care legislation and approve of it.

No I dont approve of the whole bill.
Posted by: Mike | Feb 20, 2010 9:12:35 PM
So you’ve read the bill then.

The fact is though if we do nothing like the republicans want it will be FAR WORSE then the current plan the dems have.
Posted by: Mike | Feb 20, 2010 9:12:35 PM
Leap of faith at best. And the Republicans do not want to do nothing. That’s what the Democrats are spending millions telling you.
The Republicans seem to have gotten the message that something needs to be done. They should have done it their way in 2000-2006 but did not. Now they are up against a bad bill. But even a half bad bill is wrong.
And I see no definitive proof that it will solve problems and reduce costs. And at this point if someone showed it to be I doubt that I would believe them.
The problem I have with the Democrats is they always have to solve a problem with a huge reformation that no one can understand and that is full of danger. They always want to tear down the whole system. What’s wrong with a series of legislation that solves individual problems?

Posted by: For The Record | Feb 20, 2010 9:27:19 PM
Well accually belive it or not there are several provisions in the bill that will save MILLIONS in medicare and medicade and they accually will. Proven fact one thing they want to do is to change the whole system to electronic record keeping. In other words everyone in the system will have there records, history, payment methods, ect done online and everything will be electronic. The military did this a few years ago to increase the level of care and lower costs called MEDPROS. I know cause im military. All records and everything is online and can be accessed anywhere by medical personel so you can be seen instantly anywhere and have your history and everything right there online ready to go saved the military BILLIONS. Read the whole bill and you will see its not this big bad thing that we are being told it is.

Good thing for Obama “all bets are off”
Posted by: For The Record | Feb 20, 2010 8:37:43 PM
________________________________
That’s what happens when an administration oversees the largest economic collapse since the Great Depression – and then hands it over to the next administration.
Not that you would be able to grasp that . . .

there is NOTHING good in the congressional health bill.
we need reform done the right way, not the Plesosi way

there is NOTHING good in the congressional health bill.
_________________________________
Try not to put so much detailed explanation in your posts.

Fix the problems – don’t tear down the whole system.
____________________________________
How exactly is the whole system being torn down?

Oh also im glad you brought up rationing. Your insurence company rations your care as we speak. If they think that a treatment is to expencive they will simply deny your claim and roll the dice that you will die before they have to pay out a dime. It happends all the time.

Oh also im glad you brought up rationing. Your insurence company rations your care as we speak. If they think that a treatment is to expencive they will simply deny your claim and roll the dice that you will die before they have to pay out a dime. It happends all the time.
Posted by: Mike | Feb 20, 2010 10:02:26 PM
“simply deny your claim and roll the dice” Wow, talk about fear mongering. I understand that forms of rationing exist, As I stated “I’m amazed that supporters hate rationing by private companies” which means I know it exists.
Again. Fix THAT problem. Don’t substitute private rationing for govt rationing. Work with companies through specific legislation to prevent rationing and monitor it. Maybe let the States handle it. The federal govt is too big to monitor anything efficiently.
Make our representatives use some common sense. It sounds like you have plenty of it.

How exactly is the whole system being torn down?
—
Uh, Reconciliation? The provision wasn’t designed for legislation. Yet dems with overwhelming majorities in both houses of congress are using it as a last resort to ram a HIGHLY UNPOPULAR bill through Congress.

Posted by: For The Record | Feb 20, 2010 10:26:16 PM
You say fix these problems these small problems over and over in your posts. Guess what unless you are willing to let the government dictate to privet enterprise what they can and cant do the only other alternative is to start a company that offers lower prices to compete. Thats what the public option is. Because insurance companys enjoy federal anti-trust protection in other words they can all get together and set prices and agree not to sell in certain areas and basically kill any chance of compitition well NOTHING is going to change these insurence companies are above the law and have the money and the congressmen to do anythign they want including getting a bill that will help the people and hurt them killed. your elected officalls work for them not you. because they have the money and you dont.

Mike – Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but… NONE of our “esteemed” legislators (including Obama) has read any of the currently proposed bills
____________________________________
And your proof is? Or is this your guess?

The Courier Journal, Louisville, Kentucky, 20 Feb 09……..”Despite a struggling economy, the nation’s five largest health insurance companies increased their profits by a combined 56 percent last year, to $12.2billion, even as they lost nearly 2 million members.”
========================================
“hehehehe” (LMAO!) …. the American people DESERVE these annual health insurance price hikes, especailly after the big town hall meeting “productions” last summer sponsored by the Republican party. Good for all of you…. pay your higher premiums each year! As the old LIFE cereal commercial used to put it…”Hey Mickey, they like it, they like it!” (LMAO!)
As for me, I’m a federal government employee and I get to enjoy my public option insurance, the “Federal Employee Health Benefits” (FEHB) program.
But, please, keep paying those higher premiums, because I do own stock in every single one of the nation’s 5 largest health insurance companies. Those larger profits every year keep the value of my stocks climbing… and you know, that’s “good for the economy”.
“Tah-tah!”

That is a “tearing down of the system”.
—
Now, are you going to demand proof from me?

We need to fix our Deficit before we try to add more trillions we can not pay for. What good is health care if can not find a job,pay for our car,buy food,or gasoline,Take in a movie,watch Cable TV,or use a computer because we can not afford internet connections?

Hey folks… is everyone going to get all of the medical bells and whistles before we die? Even if we do… won’t we still die?
So those who scream against Government “rationing” bear in mind… no one lives forever, and no “healthy economy” can support everyone having their own personal doctor.
So the “rationing” argument is invalid… no matter how much we spend on healthcare, someone, somewhere is going to experience rationing.
So those of you comfortable with a “for profit” organization rationing your healthcare please step right up to the kool aid dispenser.

there are plenty of us who do.
Posted by: progressive mama
—
The reality is the number wanting to see us go in that direction is shrinking daily. The numbers are shrinking out of growing concern and mistrust, not lack of concern.
That REALITY is what has dems in the current reconciliation panic.

Oh dont forget that idiot george w bush jr who started a war over WMD which never been found to date to help bring the economy into the downward spiral its in the past 4 years with 500 billion on war thats not a war but a political gain to steal money. The health care bill by obama is a joke with 20% of it. President obama just needs to open his eyes and LISTEN to WE THE PEOPLE and quit with the politics in congress; both sides always have and will blame the other side and say its not good for the people when they dont LISTEN to the people in the 1st place. Health care bill how can a family of 4 pay for it when the money maker makes only pennies on the dollar and barly getting by with paying bills or is unemployed and collecting 250 a week on unemployment check because its been cut in half since they have been on 7 months to a year and is about to lose that even? how can a family pay for such over priced health care even thru a company they work for has it for them to receive a lower cost payment when they only make 8 to 9 bucks a hour??? sorry but health care is needed by millions of americans and brought on high prices by people wanting to get rich by seuing a doctor or hospital. Sorry this country is and will continue to downward spiral with economy until politicans stop acting like a donkey and quit allowing big corporations to buy there votes. I’m sick now of talking about this guess i better go see a doctor and see whats wrong with me, maybe its the boot in my rear thats making me stand up and speak my mind these past few months, maybe its the common logic that i see and hear these days from lies. What ever the case I bet my bill is going to be at least 65 bucks since i done paid my 500 premium for the year…. QUIT SHOPPING AT WALMARTS, SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SMALL BUISNESS OWNERS !!!

President Borak Obama~
“We knew that this wasn’t going to be popular”
That’s the only thing the man’s been right about to date.

Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 21, 2010 10:21:05 AM
I don’t think so. I think you’re parroting the standard opposition line– one that could have been fed to you directly from a letter written by the Koch brothers, as a matter of fact. There’s not a lot of “there” there.
For example, Political Animal hits McConnell for talking about the arrogance of the admin and Dems. Check it out.
“In terms of public attitudes, the country approves of the reform proposal quite a bit more when Americans actually learn what’s in the plan, and get beyond the nonsense…
McConnell’s notion that polls should dictate policy outcomes is just odd. Indeed, it’s not even helpful to the Republican leader’s own cause.
The conservative Kentucky senator may not realize this, but public opinion generally runs counter to Republicans on most areas of public policy. Republicans don’t care …
Is it “arrogant” for GOP lawmakers to take positions that run counter to public attitudes? Americans didn’t want to see escalation in Iraq in 2007 and Republicans said, “Well, we’re going to give it to you anyway.” Americans didn’t want to see federal lawmakers intervene in the Terri Schiavo case in 2005 or spend time working on an anti-gay constitutional amendment in 2006, but Republicans said, “Well, we’re going to give it to you anyway.” Americans weren’t especially fond of the bank bailout in 2008, but that didn’t stop Mitch McConnell from voting for it, effectively telling Americans, “Well, we’re going to give it to you anyway.”
The inverse is true, too. Americans support reforming the way Wall Street does business, passing a climate bill, and ending “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” In each instance, McConnell, apparently feeling “arrogant,” has decided to tell the country, “Well, we’re not going to give it to you anyway.”
Even someone of McConnell’s limited skills should be able to understand this — Democrats were elected to tackle health care reform. So, they’re trying to do that. This isn’t “arrogant”; it’s policymakers following through on their promises to the electorate.”
That’s exactly right. The public supports a public option– are Republicans going to head to the health care summit willing to talk about that?
Nope.

Meanwhile, LA Times has an article titled, Consumers who buy individual health policies feel trapped:
“Health insurers across the country are dramatically increasing rates and slashing benefits for many of the estimated 17 million consumers with individual insurance policies, while making it almost impossible to obtain affordable alternatives.
The problems have captured national attention…
Rate increases are forcing many policyholders to make undesirable choices. In an effort to reduce their rates, many consumers are raising deductibles as high as $7,500 and paying more out of their pockets for basic services. Others are avoiding visiting doctors for fear of tainting their medical histories. Some are canceling their coverage altogether.
And it’s not only people with serious conditions, such as cancer and diabetes, who have a hard time navigating individual markets. A variety of preexisting conditions — such as ear infections, varicose veins and sleep apnea — make others just as vulnerable.”
In addition, AHIP has conceded that the market is broken.
But what slays me is that Fox News pundits, Republicans and their echo chambers on the blogosphere aren’t worried about the actual problem — nope. They’re worried that the escalating burden on Americans will make health care reform even more of a necessity and more likely to happen–

Come On Man!! After being completely shut out of the discussions on the first attempt at health care, President Obama now has the audacity to suggest the Republicans are responsible for the outrage against the absolutely disastrous monstrosity developed by Reid and Pelosi. This is just too much to take. It seems to me President Obama has a great deal of difficulty discerning reality. The plug needs to be pulled from the health care bill’s life support so that it can die the death it so justly deserves.

My bet is the repubs make mince meat and Americans will vote out every dem in 2010.
—
I’ll take that wager– as much as you’re willing to lose. LOL.
The Republicans can’t even get it together enough to support as a caucus Paul Ryan’s bills, because then they’d have to commit to making some tough choices– and you know, actually be conservative. LOL.
They offer nothing, and they’re hypocrites.

The plug needs to be pulled from the health care bill’s life support so that it can die the death it so justly deserves.
Posted by: BubblerDad | Feb 21, 2010 11:34:46 AM
As I said, Chait called it– the conservatives’ health care freakout.
Because, lord knows, Republicans and their sidekicks wouldn’t want to be for anything that draws down the deficit long range, begins to tackle medical inflation or provides consumer protections and insures more people. That wouldn’t be backwards enough.

I’ll take that wager– as much as you’re willing to lose. LOL.
—
Every dem is being too optimistic.
How do you feel about their majorities?
How do you feel about Reid?
If the House keeps it’s majority, how do you feel about Pelosi as Speaker?

What the H is wrong with `reconciliation`? At least they`d get something done. It`s not like the Republicans haven`t had more than a year to face the reality that health care needs fixing and accept that they lost the last election. It`s not like the Republicans just started blocking health care reform. 16 years ago they blocked Hilary Clinton`s attempt to propose it.

They offer nothing
—
They’d be fools if they did offer anything. Coming from the minority party it would be completely indefensible. Even moreso. They know it just as well as everyone crying “they offer nothing” knows it. Reid just stabbed them in the back on the jobs legislation. And you really expect them to allow the same thing again? I can see how that would be nice but, get real.

Being a registered independent hardly makes one not a democrat. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I’m a republican but I’m not a conservative. And if conservatives don’t get some perspective pretty darned soon we’ll be doomed to democrats until they do.

How do you feel about their majorities?
How do you feel about Reid?
If the House keeps it’s majority, how do you feel about Pelosi as Speaker?
Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 21, 2010 12:09:00 PM
How do I “feel”?
I’m not overly emotive about it all, I tend to get more emotive about issues, but since you keep asking, I “think” the Dems will lose seats in the House, for sure, and possibly a few in the Senate. I think the worse thing that could happen to us as a country, in terms of making progress and coming up with solutions to problems, is to get us to a razor thin majority either way– where actually legislating is seen as a political liability till 2012, and we just keep kicking things down the road. So what I want to see happen is whatever it takes to get rid of the gridlock and start moving on the issues and problems we face. And I’m hoping the anti-incumbent thing sticks, and we get in some bright, gutsy free thinkers. I’d prefer more independents than either Republicans or Democrats– but, yes, if that wasn’t an option, I’d prefer more Democrats like Franken or Grayson, than Republicans (though I do like Ron Paul).–
As for Pelosi and Reid, I get a kick out of Pelosi, and I’d prefer others to Reid– but they’re both much preferable to Boehner (yowza!) and McConnell. Not perfect but what politician is.
Republicans and their friends are what got us into the many messes we’re in today. While I hope to eventually forgive, I will never forget the people who did it, or the blind that want to do it all over again. Time to clean up, move on and move forward.

They are mad cause they aren’t in power anymore and they are throwing a tantrum. They will yell and scream Obama is this and the democrats are that and we hate everything they stand for and you should too, blah blah blah. They will attempt to stop everything the dems do and make the lives of the american people so miserable…
—
We have similar views of the Republicans, Mike. Keep on telling people, so more will get it.

“A republican tea partyer flew a plane into an IRS biulding in Austin the other day.”
Hey, moron, the guy who flew that plane into the IRS building was no Tea Partier, and he was certainly no Republican. Large portions of his suicide not were devoted to bashing Republicans and capitalism. Blaming the IRS attack on “Tea Partiers” reminds me of how the same morons blamed the “murder” of the KY census worker on “Tea Partiers”. Yeah, how did that work out?

Posted by: Obama is Carter | Feb 21, 2010 12:57:19 PM
What an incredibly silly post. I was talking about very specific quotes of Fox News pundits, Republicans and conservative bloggers. These quotes indicate very clearly that they are more concerned about the politics than addressing the real problems the article I quoted (at 11:22:47 AM) brought up.
For example, while interviewing an executive from WellPoint, which owns Anthem, Fox’s Charles Payne suggested the company should have decided to “wait for this [reform push] to blow over and maybe a year from now try to hike rates.”
Its a ridiculous clip. TP: “Charles Payne and and Stu Varney lashed out at WellPoint for increasing rates just when “it was safe to get out of the healthcare debate.” ‘

Posted by: Obama is Carter | Feb 21, 2010 12:54:08 PM
SEE I KNEW YOU SAT IN FRONT OF THAT LAME EXCUSE FOR A NEWS SHOW FOX NEWS LOL

progressive mama, you might want to check that ALL politicians lie. if you think the democrats are any less dishonest than the republicans, you need to go back to reality school.

you might want to check that ALL politicians lie
–
I’ve said it time and again. With the exception of a handful, I don’t think much of them. But Republicans are worse. And they are worse for the country.

Hank Paulson via Newsweek : “Meetings with Senate Republicans were a complete waste of time for us”
They’re useless.

You’re not a Democrat? Really? Let me guess, you’re an Independent! At least progressive_mama proudly wears her progressivism on her sleeve. I give her high praise for that. Stand up and be counted, Mike.
—
Thanks for the praise, but I’m a registered independent, too. A progressive independent. I do vote against Dems now and then, but never for a Republican.

we have no idea what the party in charge is actually offering.
___
Personally, I’m hoping the President has received that message and the plan he offers at the summit will be lucid and easy-to-understand for the American public. If they’re against it, at least they’ll know exactly what they’re against, and be able to explain without resorting to exaggeration and magnification. And if they’re for more of it than they’re against, they’ll be able to articulate that, too, and really weight the pros and cons.

All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages.

Personally, I’m hoping the President has received that message and the plan he offers at the summit will be lucid and easy-to-understand for the American public. If they’re against it, at least they’ll know exactly what they’re against, and be able to explain without resorting to exaggeration and magnification. And if they’re for more of it than they’re against, they’ll be able to articulate that, too, and really weight the pros and cons.
___________________________________
Exactly! I think that was intended to come out in the reconciled bill – it seems essential. We’ve all seen polls where the public option is actually supported by a majority – its the process, the bickering and the confusion that have put people off.

For all the cries of “they offer nothing” we have no idea what the party in charge is actually offering. In several thousand pages of a bill “that protects benefits, protects patients, and protects the American people.” there is no mention of how much this is going to cost each one of us. There is a sliding scale that kicks in depending on one’s income. The fact that such exists says that locked in a vault somewhere is the dollar amount of what the govt expects each person/family to pay out of their pocket for this health care plan. Before this goes one step further show us that amount. Before this goes one step further tell us the benefits this plan is going to mandate. Those benefits and that amount are going to turn the private insurance industry on it’s ear.
Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 21, 2010 1:35:28 PM
Firstly get your fact strait theres only 2347 pages to the health care bill not several tousand, second no idea what the price will be to the american people? Well I knwo what the price is for NOT passing it. Know from expericance. Last year my health care insurance was about 300 a month for really good coverage. Now I can only afford the basic coverage as it is 700 a month. Not to meation anthum bluee shield is going to raise rates another 37%. Well not that Obama called them out on it they said they are going to wait. (wait to hope health care reform will fail and then they can do whatever they want. Fox News told Anthum dont do it now wait till health care reform blows over then rasie rates next year. They are as bad as the terrorists holding americans hostage basically. The GOP and all its member should be taken out and shot as trators to save the american people.

you had absolutly NO PROBLEM WITH BUSH using reconciliation
—
Once again, this problem does not belong to republicans. The democrats are humping up about it. The last I saw twenty are on board in the senate. The rest are afraid for their jobs. So far the senate hasn’t had to record a vote but reconciliation leaves them no choice. ROFLMAO

tierra, borak obama and the dem leadership have put rank & file democrat congress members in this pickle. Let em squirm!
Once again, this problem does not belong to republicans. The democrats are humping up about it. The last I saw twenty are on board in the senate. The rest are afraid for their jobs. So far the senate hasn’t had to record a vote but reconciliation leaves them no choice. ROFLMAO

progressive mama – I never said there wasn’t a problem. All I said is that neither the House or Senate bill does ANYTHING to fix it.

All I said is that neither the House or Senate bill does ANYTHING to fix it.
Posted by: ellsbells930 | Feb 21, 2010 4:13:43 PM
And that isn’t in keeping with the facts. It grossly exaggerates any case you might have to make about various provisions. As I said, the bill very clearly decreases the number of uninsureds and gets at issues dealing with recision and pre-existing conditions, offering consumer protections that will decrease the likelihood of medical bankrupcy. And it does more than anything else offered up by anyone else to get at the issue of medical inflation and the cost curve via innovative pilot programs. It also tackles some of the problems in Medicare and fills the donut hole for seniors. The article I mentioned, Testing Testing by Atul Gawande covers the issue of cost and how it relates to the pilot programs very well. Its worth a read.
Now, if you want to make the case that the bills don’t offer the very best way to tackle the issues, or they won’t completely fix the problems, then you’re starting from a reasonable point, but given the political environment we can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That latter statement has become cliche through overuse, but it is worth thinking about when not engaged in a partisan battle.
By saying it doesn’t do anything to fix any aspect of the issues/concerns/problems related to health insurance, cost and health delivery in America is incorrect and a perfect example of all or nothing thinking (or gross minimization) and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

..oh, woe is me. I keep asking when the President is going to pursue his HealthCARE Reform program, rather than his, and Nancy’s…and Harry’s National Healthcare Insurance “Reform” program. Scrap the damned thing and do what we were told you wanted to do. By the way, have we started to identify the “big savings” in Medicare so that we can financially help out this Program?…or is it out of sight means out of mind?

We’ve all seen polls where the public option is actually supported by a majority – its the process, the bickering and the confusion that have put people off.
Posted by: tierra | Feb 21, 2010 2:33:11 PM
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Yep. I just watched a clip of Harry Reid on a local news station in Nevada discussing the health care reform measures. They showed the numbers for Nevada- overwhelmingly people like the public option.
Americans also overwhelmingly want some form of health care reform, and several of the protections in the current bills.
What is really hypocritical is that many on the Right keep saying Dems and proponents of health care reform aren’t listening to the “people.” Seems to me, they are. The “people” don’t want them to give up, and they aren’t– its the Republicans who are. There are only one or two who aren’t totally disingenuous.

Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 21, 2010 4:39:53 PM
Most polls have shown that the public option is popular. Moreover, a recent Newsweek poll confirmed that 81% of poll respondents percent agreed with the creation of a new insurance marketplace, the exchange, for individual subscribers to compare plans and buy insurance at a competitive rate. Plus, seventy-six percent thought health insurers should be required to cover anyone who applies, including those with preexisting conditions; and 75 percent agreed with requiring most businesses to offer health insurance to their employees, with incentives for small-business owners to do so.
Now I’ll admit I’m not thrilled with that last one. I’d prefer we unbind health insurance from employment and make it portable (so I like Wyden’s free choice amendment), but overall, we have to start getting at some of these issues.
Another key finding by Newsweek: “When asked about Obama’s plan (without being given any details about what the legislation includes), 49 percent opposed it and 40 percent were in favor. But after hearing key features of the legislation described, 48 percent supported the plan and 43 percent remained opposed.” Also, “The shift in support for health-care reform, after learning specific information about it, was most noticeable among women. Their support went from 42 to 52 percent supportive after hearing the main provisions. Democrats and liberals saw similar shifts. Republicans were much less likely to be swayed by hearing the details; they moved from 15 percent supportive to 18 percent after learning more.”
So the heartless, depraved corporate kewpies remain unmoved, but hey, they’re heartless and depraved corporate kewpies. Can’t please them unless you offer to torture somebody that seems “other.”
(Yeah, yeah– cheap shot. Did I mention I like taking cheap shots at Republicans?)

The Reconciliation procedure being considered now is a different animal altogether….
Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 21, 2010 4:32:33 PM
Not sure what you’re getting at here. This is exactly the sort of situation reconciliation was designed to address. There’s a good article in The New England Journal of Medicine which addresses this. Its called Forging Ahead–Embracing the Reconcilation Option for Reform, by Henry J. Aaron.
“…Congress created reconciliation procedures to deal with precisely
this sort of situation — its failure
to implement provisions of the
previous budget resolution. The
2009 budget resolution instructed
both houses of Congress to enact
health care reform. The House
and the Senate have passed similar
but not identical bills. Since
both houses have acted but some
work remains to be done to align
the two bills, using reconciliation
to implement the instructions in
the budget resolution follows established congressional procedure.”
If Republicans don’t come to the summit willing to present ideas and negotiate for bipartisan (compromise) solutions, then it makes sense for Dems to do what they were elected to do and attempt to pass health reform by passing a small package of fixes through reconciliation so that the House and Senate bills are aligned.
And its very hypocritical for the Republicans to complain, if they do (ha!) since they were more than happy to use it to pass tax cuts, using misrepresentation to do so.
There is no misrepresentation in this case.

It’s clear you’re a progressive, but what does that mean. A Woodrow Wilson progressive?
—
Well, it could for some. To me to be a progressive means to be classically liberal, to be pro-progress (science,technology,reform) to be pro-equal opportunity, to make use of or be interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities, to be adapatable to the current circumstances, to stand for self-determination, to stand for the idea of a strict separation of church and state, to stand for the preservation of civil liberties, to stand for the idea that the reach of government (including into our bedrooms!) must be restricted; to stand for personal privacy and owning a gun (properly licensed) as constitutional rights; to stand for governmental transparency, to recognize that unrestricted big corporations are a threat to civil liberties just as big government is (so as to not grossly favor big biz while restricting governments ability to keep big biz in check), to stand for small business (reducing red tape burdens), to promote an equitable playing field not laden with special interests and old-boy networks, to understand that there is a role for federal government when it comes to disasters, public safety, public health and a social safety net and so on. I see health care reform as falling under public health and safety.
Which ultimately means anti-GOP.
I’m sure I missed a few things, but that’s the basic gist.

I’m sure I missed a few things, but that’s the basic gist.
Posted by: progressive mama | Feb 21, 2010 7:54:12 PM
————-
I’m glad I asked, and thanks for the response. What I find amazing is that we share many of the same beliefs, yet end up on different sides of the political fence. I would call myself a Libertarian or Constitutionalist, but most would label me as a rabid, raving right-winger. Nothing could be further from the truth.
There used to be a time when the center was big place and the extreme wings were known as the lunatic fringe. I was raised in a conservative Democrat household with a picture of JFK on the wall in the hallway. John Chaffee was a moderate Republican Senator from RI and a true statesman (Clean Air Act). So was his moderate Democrat peer, Clairborne Pell, who routinely stared down the Soviets during the Cold War as head of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Where are these statesmen today? Unfortunately the lunatics (from both sides) have the loudest voices these days.

What I find amazing is Libertarians think government is more of a threat to their liberties when controlled by liberals than corporatists and therefore typically fall in with the Republicans, who believe everything, including liberties, has a price tag.

What I find amazing is Libertarians think government is more of a threat to their liberties when controlled by liberals than corporatists and therefore typically fall in with the Republicans, who believe everything, including liberties, has a price tag.
Posted by: Skip | Feb 21, 2010 9:09:47 PM
————–
Skip, thanks for taking the conversation down a notch. We can always count on you to do that.
I don’t know what a coporatist is, but I can take a good guess, and I would side with a corporatist over a statist any day of the week. That is true. Remember, we can always regulate corporations, we can tax them, fine them, even break them up. I’m a big fan of the free market, with regulation. How about you?

But that’s not what Republicans do. -They deregulate corporations. Almost everything you listed as being in favor of is much more likely to be actually legislated and enacted by Democrats than Republicans.
Posted by: Skip | Feb 21, 2010 9:41:09 PM
================
That may be true. However, Chaffee sponsored the Clean Air Act which led to all kinds of regulations across all kinds of industries. We need more moderates on both sides. And by the way, both sides have done a poor job regulating recently.
So, are you a big fan of the free market with regulations? Small central government?

Woody your on the money I would rather seee free market with goverment reulations that large government. Proplem is you can do that cause there lobbists will go to washington and spend a little money on a congresmens re-elction and he will vote to let them do whatever they want to do. Thats the reality of everything here our elected officals are the best money can buy. Big biusness has the money to buy them and the poor working class person doesnt. doesnt take a degree to figure out which one is going to get congresional support.

Not sure what you’re getting at here
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I think some here are confused between Reconciliation (Byrd Rule) and reconciling houae and senate versions of the same bill.
I don’t know who Henry J. Aaron is but congress cannot be “ordered” to enact anything that hasn’t been passed and signed into legislation by the potus. “Established procedure” is reconciling (small “r”) those 2 pieces of legislation into ONE bill for potus to sign. Byrd Rule/Reconcliation has been misused before but it is never established procedure.

And before any more praise is heaped on Mr Health Care and his minions:
“Show me some numbers. Individual costs and benefits. Then POLL THAT! Until that happens every poll in this country is meaningless.”

Can you imagine the parties that the health insurers will hold if health care reform goes down?
—
And (hopefully), were that to happen, dems voting against it will be re-elected. A huge portion of those for it will sweat until november. A good portion will be penning consession or retirement speeches and seeing their staff search for new employment. Because, no matter how many so-called polls are quoted, this health care legislation is getting about 35% approval nationally.

Let’s call for a “good plan” first. Otherwise, it simply doesn’t matter.

One American:
Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are not
acting on their own!
They don’t do anything as big as
Healthcare without President Obama’s
approval! They are on the same page.
Wise up.

Posted by: smartlillena | Feb 22, 2010 1:03:05 PM
I gave you the source, Plum Line, which has numbers for the public option and the Senate bill. The public option is more popular.
If you were’t allergic to reading sources, you’d be less likely to sound foolish when you try to taunt.

COME ON, progressive mama!!!
Here is the plum line poll (complete):
* In Nevada, only 34% support the Senate bill, while 56% support the public option.
* In Illinois, only 37% support the Senate bill, while 68% support the public option.
* In Washington State, only 38% support the Senate bill, while 65% support the public option.
* In Missouri, only 33% support the Senate bill, while 57% support the public option.
* In Virginia, only 36% support the Senate bill, while 61% support the public option.
* In Iowa, only 35% support the Senate bill, while 62% support the public option.
*In Minnesota, only 35% support the Senate bill, while 62% support the public option.
* In Colorado, only 32% support the Senate bill, while 58% support the public option.
And here is how the blogster ended that “article ?”:
…
, if the above polls are to be believed.

If you were’t allergic to reading sources, you’d be less likely to sound foolish when you try to taunt.
—
Just taking a cheap shot of my own, I didn’t think you’d mind. While you were harrassing me I was finding the so-called poll you referenced. I was laughing so hard it took me a minute to get it posted. THAT was the real cheap shot. I’m gonna watch you a little closer.

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