Do Pelosi and the Democrats Have the Health Care Votes? Here’s the Math

No-one has been able to explain how a government that has failed to manage all entitlement programs to date could suddenly find a magical way to eliminate the very waste, fraud and abuse it seemingly thrives on by passing a 2000+ page bill. No matter how the CBO scores the cost we know from experience that the government cannot manage it.
The national debt though the ceiling has been raised twice within months has passed the $14.3 trillion ceiling according to the “bluedog democrats” website. The unfunded liabilities (say entitlements) are in excess of $105 trillion compared to the net worth of all US assets valued at $51.5 trillion. Current projections have the national debt doubling in just five years and tripling in ten.
Yet, in the face of a growing debt crisis Obama pushes onward, giving deadlines to our(?) Congress for a healthcare vote. What is wrong with this picture? What has happened to the balance of powers, is it time for our congress to “cowboy up” and tell this president where to go? I would prefer to hear some answers on debt resolution rather than how to buy insurance for 17 million uninsured with dollars of which 40 cents of each is borrowed. It may sound sweet in the short term but when the dollar is trashed and socialism becomes official healthcare will become a moot point.

The real problem is that the Dems don’t have the guts or the votes to pass a public option, which would really lower costs. Single payer, the system which Canada and GB and much of the rest of civilized world uses, could work here if the entrenched interests would stop their campaign of lies and fear-mongering. Of course these systems aren’t perfect, but everyone is covered and no one goes broke in the face of illness. Ask most Canadians or Brits or Aussies and they are quite satisfied with their healthcare. Yes, the well-off may go elsewhere to speed up the process in some cases, but it works for the vast majority.

Liberals.. STOP stealing MY money for your entitlement programs. I don’t want to support your progressive, anti-American plans…. STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.
Stay the hell out of MY wallet!

IF you pass this monstrosity, you will be punished by the American people in November, a large portion of the states will opt out (regardless of the language of the bill), and there will be numerous law suits to challenge it on Constitutional Grounds.
The Democrats are stupid if they really think they will get away with this. WE THE PEOPLE will defeat this one way or another. The fight has only begun.

30,000,000 men, women and children need Congress to pass this bill. For many of them its not a political issue its a life or death issue.

where were all the protestors when bush asked for a blank check on the wars?
not billions, the wars cost $trillions in damages, personal loss, for the next 100 years.

EARL, This bill is NOT about health care! It is about CONTROL: i.e., the STATE CONTROLLING YOU. If it passes it will be the LARGEST TRANSER OF POWER TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IN HISTORY!! THAT is why they so DESPERATELY want it!

“It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.”
Which would include the politicians who are trying to pass it.

Hey Plantain_11
It’s interesting that the majority of those promoting, campaigning and rubber stamping the benefits of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.

Let’s stay away from socialism/communism and let the free market do its job. It is, after all, the biblical form of economy.

JMo…Is that why the Canadian Premier came to Florida for Heart Surgery? Gee, if the system is so great, why on earth would he come here? IT’S BECAUSE WE HAVE THE GREATEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD. If all you people like socialism, why don’t you move and leave us FREEDOM loving AMERICANs’ along?

Ditto

If this bill passes, especially considering the way the process has been corrupted, the United States Constitution will no longer be the law of the land. Our country is being overthrown right before our eyes.
This will not end well…but really, should it?

i read this article why?

Ever hear: “I’m from the govmt and I’m here to help you”???

The Democrats are banking on the American voters to have a brain like a gnat and forget about this come election time. Kind of the American Idol of politics. See, they think the American individual is not an individual but a collective group of bugs.

Hey LDC and look how our media covers for the prezbo. 57 states, 3000 percent…..yet just a wonderful highly intelligent man child@

Same old fears and lies the GOP are throwing out. From a surplus to 10 trillion in debt. That is the Bush legacy. And we still don’t have affordable health care. It is time to take care of us for a change. Not the banks, the insurance companies nor the pharmaceuticals; Not Iraq, Afganistan, Haiti nor other foreign countries. This time it should be about us americans. Pass this health care reform!

What a FARCE…. I SAY one and your done… VOTE THEM ALL OUT!!
We are going to add 30 million people and our cost are going down.. WHAT A JOKE.. We are going to add Govt agencies are the cost are going down.. What A Joke.. We are going to add another entitlement and we are all ready broke… What a Joke.. We are all going to be speaking Chinese before long…

Goodbye Democrats.
Your epic act of self immolation has been a joy to watch. A shout out to Obama for lighting the fire.
Democrats will never be trusted with power again.

If this passes, this will be the textbook Constitutional definition of “Taxation Without Representation”.

Liberals.. STOP stealing MY money for your entitlement programs. I don’t want to support your progressive, anti-American plans…. STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT.
Stay the hell out of MY wallet!
Posted by: Rob | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:46 PM
—————————————-
Dont mess with your medicare, your social security. Leave those alone which account most of the U.S. annual spending………. No more Medicare Part D, CONTINUE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PROGRAMS THAT WERE VOTED ON BY BOTH PARTIES. STICK WITH THE STATUS QUO UNTIL IT GOES BROKE B/C THATS WHAT WILLHAPPEN WITH SSN AND MEDICARE IF THEY ARENT REFORMED.

Posted by: Rob | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:46 PM
It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
err…not even those voting for the health care bill have read it and they don’t know what’s in it. Just tote the party line and whistle past the graveyard.
With the adoption of the “Slaughter Solution” These idiots will go from not reading a bill before voting on it to passing a bill without voting on it.

It’s not “anti-abortion rights.” It’s “pro-life.”

NOONE KNOWS WHAT IS IN THIS BILL – NOT EVEN THOSE WHO WILL VOTE ON IT.

Sguild,
You sound like every other Lib, and the Won (/sarc). It’s all Bush’s fault. Let me tell you – I am a stron conservative, and I complained all the time about how Bush and the Repubs spent like crazy. it was wrong then, it is ALWAYS wrong to spend what you don’t have. But – the way that they spent is NOTHING compared to what the Dems are doing. it is destroying our country, and it is unsustainable. Adding another 2+ trillion entitlement will only make it worse. We need to get back to where we belong. Governments job is to provide for the common defense (military and police/fire), infrastucture (roads and schools), and that is ALL. The rest should be privatized, remove Government from our lives and let the states decide. If that happnes, watch the country take off, growth, innovation, etc. Everything the Government touches turns to crap – they cannot do anything right. Stay away from my health care!!

Is anyone surprised the Slaughter Rule was dreamed up by the democrat politician from NY? They breed corruption and thieves. Between the Chicago mob and the NY crooks, these liberal thugs are ruining our country.

PASS IT NOW, WE’LL FIX IT LATER.
PASS IT NOW, YOU’LL LOVE IT LATER.
PASS IT NOW, BECAUSE WE KNOW BETTER.

i won’t forget nor will i forgive what congress is doing.
never, ever, ever.
READ THE FREAK’N CONSTITUTION PEOPLE….IT MATTERS.

If Pelosi via Slaughter ‘deems’ the healthcare bill passed without an actual vote, then maybe I will ‘deem’ my taxes paid without writing the check.

This is really a travesty. Accounting gimmicks, fraud, lies, bribes and arm twisting. WE CANNOT AFFORD this bill and the dems have no interest in fixing the problem which was mainly Medicare fraud and abusive charges (so dr’s could make the money they were owed by those who never pay) which drives up costs. Do the math, you can’t educate enough doctors (who would want to be one now) in the 6 years this takes affect to cover 30 mil more while they grab our $ for some other government program. Disgusting!

If it were an acceptable bill, let alone a good, one it would have passed months ago with overwhelming support. Dems would have genuinely welcomed GOP input and if it were real reform it would have had broad bi-partisan support. The truth is that the claimed benefits are delusions if not outright lies.The game plan always was to give vague, grandiose promises, while smearing any and all who disagreed.

Can anyone with half of a brain give me a reason why they just don’t throw this bill in the garbage and start anew with bipartison input? Oh wait, that would be a fully thriving democracy at work…not this lopsided government we have today where they act like a bunch of kids on a playground rather than grown representatives of their constituents. Dems want absolute control to provide health care for millions of people, of which most are currently eligible for assistance and the rest are happy slumming off government handouts. Start from scratch, take baby steps to eliminate preexisting conditions, allow cross-border competition and regulate malpractice suits to actual cases not frivolous matters that drive up insurance costs and bills. See where that gets us then move forward with other steps as needed…it’s business 101.

I hate when anyone, for any position, picks out a “random”sample to prove a position. However, when the President picked out a person who was sick and did not have heatlh insurance, he stubbled when asked by Jake Tapper. (Not from Fox News). Furthermore, the lady in question was in treatment and would continue having treatment paid by the various current mostly private charity programs. Furthermore, she would not lose her home, as the President claimed. As a personal aside, I have visited the emergency room in our town twice in the last year. Everyone who came into the hospital was given medical attention, wheter they had insurance or not. How many people know that hospitals can not refuse medical attention. Long lines in the emergency rooms are with us to stay. I have not read the bill (who has?) but the lines in the emergeny rooms will not get shorter if more people have, or don’t have health insurance.
Without knowing what the bill states, I am comfortable in stating an obvious. More patients means less time spent with doctors. Doctors are encouraging their offspring to enter the law, or other professions. Being a doctor today means too much time spent on administrative functions, or paying for someone to handle those functions.
Finally, attaching an education bill. As a college graduate and son of an immigrant, I wonder why everyone must go to college. If everyone had a college degree, I guess our toilets would be cleaned by a college graduate. Who probably wouldn’t do a good job, because he majored in basket weaving.

WHAT IS SOOOOOO FUNNY is that the Dems have done all this slicing of the bill, offering bribes, accounting maneuvers, legislative crimes… AGAINST THEIR OWN PEOPLE!!!!…. Because they had a YEAR to pass this with a supermajority… but the bill is SO HORRIBLE, they couldn’t even talk their OWN party into voting for it!!! — THAT is the crap they are peddeling!!!

The math is very simple: There are 37 current Dems who voted “no” last time. 37 is exactly the number of Dem “no” votes they can lose and still pass the bill. So, for every “yes” that flips to “no”, the Dems must flip a “no” to “yes.” If Stupak flips “yes” to “no,” somebody else must flip the other way. If Stupak has 6 former “yesses” flipping to “no”, Pelosi must flip 6 former “noes” to “yes.” If another 4 flip “yes” to “no” based on cost or procedure, that’s another 4 “noes” that need to go “yes.”
So far, there is 1 potential flip from no to yes: Kucinich. He offsets Stupak. That’s it, so far.
Remember, the Stupak 12 were all “yesses.” This means that keeping a member of the Stupak 12 from going “no” doesn’t add toward the 216, it merely keeps the total from getting further away from 216.
There are a lot more potential “yes” to “no” flips than vice versa. It’s a very tall order to find 216.

From the Congressional Quarterly: “House Democratic leaders are still struggling to produce a final health care overhaul bill at an acceptable official cost estimate…Rank-and-file Democrats did not talk about the details, but said that the CBO scores had come up short”
Pass a bill that hasn’t, after all these months got the basic straightened out, and they are too embarrassed to admit it’s flaws? I don’t think I could be that stupid.

RE: Posted by: Rob | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:46 PM
Dearest Rob,
Please cut the sanctimonious BS about “the majority of people who haven’t read the bill”, I don’t need to read your bill to know that its a piece of un-American crap. I pay people waaaaayyyyyy smarter than you to read it for me–not that you’ve wasted a month of your life reading that monstrosity either buddy, so let’s not pretend.
Funny how the constitution can occupy what, eleven or so pages (my copy), yet this bill is 1990 pages…The founding document of the land of the formerly free is an obvious testament to the old adage that less is more…

Don’t kid yourselves…if this passes there will not be any elections in November. There will not be another election until the results can be guaranteed. The united States Of America dies with the passing of this bill.

The Bill WILL PASS, because REAL Americans support major portions of the legislation.
The bad portions of the Bill are being stripped off.
It is inevitable, it WILL PASS by weekend and by a wider margin that you think.
Check this out and remember that the Oldies VOTE:
***************************
Sourc: AARP Bulletin 3/10
From Kaiser Family Foundation, Jan., 2010. Survey of American Citizens:
Give tax credits to small businesses to cover employees (73% approval)
Create health insurance exchanges to help people get coverage (67% approve).
Leave most people’s existing coverage unchanged (66% approve).
Prohibit insurers from denying coverage or charging more for people with pre-existing conditions (63% approve).
Expand Medicaid to cover more low-income people (62% approve).
Allow children coverage under parents’ insurance until age 26 (60% approve).
Help close the Medicare Part D donut hole (60% approve).
Etc., etc., etc…..
***********************
If the Repubs want to campaign against these numbers come November in their attempt to repeal the Bill, let them BRING IT ON.
The Repubs are running scared because they know that once this Bill passes the Dems are guaranteed to win in November.
Steve_NJ.

I think it’s interesting how the conservatives have no problem spending money on FOREIGN wars for oil and influence, and give up their freedoms by pushing through true abominations like The Patriot Act, then they cry government control and corruption and refuse to pay for the health of THIS COUNTRY’S citizens.
When you step back and think about it…it’s hypocrisy of the highest level.

The country does NOT WANT THIS BILL! This is a vote for retirement if you are in a red or swing district Democrats!!!!!! I also will donate money to the democrats who vote no to this bill that are primaried by the far left if it fails!!

To Mark who is concerned about the 30 Mil who won’t have insurance without this bill…
What about the other 16 Mil that still won’t be covered by this bill? Don’t you care about them? I guess this bill sucks then and we should go back to the drawing board and get it right, huh?
Or here’s another idea; Why don’t you find another 29,999,999 other loving, caring souls, like yourself, and each of you pay for some uninsured persons benefits? How about that idea? What? You say it is too expensive to do that? What is it about you liberals? It is always about the money. Can’t you just stop and think about all the pain and suffering you could end? Surely you can’t put a price tag on that?
So, here’s the thing. This bill does NOT reduce the cost of health care or health care insurance but it does reduce the quality of health care and it makes everyone pay, not only for their own increased costs, but also ALL the cost of those 30,000,000 free loaders! And it does this at a time of recession when huge numbers of hard working Americans are trying to make ends meet in there current budget (something Congress should consider doing).
How you spend your money is your own prerogative but don’t tell *me* that I have to pay for benefits for someone that *you* have decided deserves them.

As of this moment, the bill they will vote/deem (actually deceive) is still being written.
My guess is that it was written, CBO scored, and is now being re-written trying to figure out how to get it below $1 trillion.
Hard to do, with all special deals that got added in. Probably will end up having to wait for the 5th year for benefits to start, instead of 4th year, or some other/more slight of hand.
Lastly, if I were a Dem, I’d be preparing to say good-bye to my party, permanently.

UK and Canada Civilized world with government run healthcare? Have you seen the teeth in UK? our teeth will match theirs if we get single payer system. Have you seen how Census taking care of business? a letter to tell about another letter coming in the mail. Thats how Government runs. The whole idea of reducing cost of healthcare is bogus claim. Mr. President is trying to get this passed so he has something to claim for in 3 years. Mr. President asked for Up or Down vote. Seems like he is ok if no vote taken also. Go figure!

Here’s the deal – they pass this garbage and make me pay for someone to kill their unborn baby, I will not pay. I will go to jail if that is the case. I am a contributing member to this society with a good job and I pay plenty of tax money. I support a family with 3 kids. If the crooks in Washington want to throw me in jail b/c I refuse to pay for killing then more power to ‘em, hope they sleep well at night.

So according this guy, those Dems who don’t approve of forcing taxpayers to pay for killing innocent babies are “anti-abortion rights”.. David Chalian, you’re a hack.

“anti-abortion rights Democrats”
AKA: pro-fetus rights Democrats

If this bill is so good, why doesn’t it apply to the Senators and representatives themselves?

pelosi=can’t understand normal thinking

“JMO” “Ask most Canadians or Brits or Aussies and they are quite satisfied with their healthcare. Yes, the well-off may go elsewhere to speed up the process in some cases, but it works for the vast majority.”
JMO my man/woman “the vast majority” of people who go to doctors have nothing wrong that a period of time won’t cure; However if you are really in need of health-care a month or more to get into a bad hospital can and often is fatal.

I get that there are millions of people in our country that don’t have and need healthcare and I get that our healthcare system needs reforming…what I don’t get is if this bill will dramatically change the system as we know it and if it will affect every single American, why then are Democrats trying to push it…er, cram it through without taking a vote. With the impact that it will have, why is it not being done right? I always thought that if something was worth doing it should be done right.

If we truly believe in equality, how can we accept this bill. It has wealth redistribution all over it, people that work hard and earn their living will have to pass it to someone who needs free healthcare because they can’t afford it.
If person A is forced by the government to pay for person B, how are they than equal? They are not because person B has been given something for free. Not to mention the government forced person A to give it.
In Southern California the emergency rooms will not refuse care, we have had 4-5 major hospital closing in the last 2 years, because they cannot afford to give the free care for the uninsured. Not to mention eliminated a medical resource for hard working Americans. Under this agreement we the people would shoulder that responsibility.
If I wish to donate my money, I will determine who deserves it. The Government has overstepped its power in determining that we each are incapable of making the right decision.

The will of the people is suppressed in the power grab by Congress for securing Obamacare. When smoke and mirrors are used to mislead, when they resort to trickery to bend the rules,when they resort to bribery to buy the votes, then democracy is truly in peril. God Bless America.

TO SUPPORT PROVEN LIARS, PROVEN BY THEIR OWN WORDS with your security is LUDICROUS, to to put it mildly!!! The friends you support, throw each other under the bus regularly, when will it be your turn, or have they already and you’re just too stupid to realize/recognize it!! Support them until your bitter end!! No, nothing is guaranteed, it is human nature to dominate over another human, some can suppress the instinct, some can’t, beware you might be in support of those who can’t!!!! You might be one of that kind also, maybe that is why you support them? Either way, you will become useless to them at some point and they’ll medicate you out of here!!! Enjoy the free “Coffee” on your bus ride and listen while the “Piper” plays, it will sooth your soul, until the dawn, but daylight will never shine upon you!!! You live in darkness, blaspheming anyone who would criticize your god (Loving government that gives to you) If your vocabulary is that limited, then you must not know (Have any idea) what you support!! Maybe that is why a historical figure once said “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”!! Every time I look at the year on my Calendar, I think of him and know why the year is 2010!!! Do you know why? If not research it? Maybe Obama will start a calendar, marking the new countdown!!! Many believe he is holy enough!!!!~~~~~~< The fork-ed tongue has no limitations~~~~~~~<

I will vote out any representative, regardless of political party, that votes to pass this garbage. Each and every one of them.

Very few Americans have read this because it’s too long and complicated. While I support health care reform, they really should simplify it so it’s clear who is getting bought off (Hi Pfizer and Louisiana) and the American people can figure out what stuff is in there besides all the cost saving ideas and ban on ridiculous insurance practices like recission.

30,000,000 will not die if they do not have INSURANCE. No hospital will turn any trauma victim away. Plus we have free medical care for the poor. Pay for your OWN routine medical care you mooch. 30,000,000 = 17,900,000 illegals who shouldn’t see a dime of my money + 5,000,000 young people who don’t want insurance + 7,000,000 in-between jobs thanks to the Obamanation + 99,000 who are rich enough to pay out of pocket + the 1 who truly slipped through the cracks.

Notice please the nice objective neutral language chosen by ABC News when the say, “most of which will come from the Democratic anti-abortion rights crowd.” The style editor at ABC would never be allowed to include in copy the “anti-child crowd” or the pro-infanticide crowd.” The network does not even try to be objective in respecting the views of those who think abortion is morally reprehensible for many reasons. Some how “pro-choice” is never the choice to deliver a baby but only to take the life of a defenselees child in a craven and cowardly act of homocide.

Get the hell out of my way!

You guys are so silly. This Healthcare will cover the health needs of all Americans. It has mandatory funding for abortions, illegal immigrant care, and things that even Pelosi confesses she doesn’t know. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a clause for voodoo, exorcism, curse blocking, and ghost whisperers. Of course you won’t be able to use it until 2014 but at least you can start paying for it immediately since the fees and taxes will have to be increased in order to fund it. Did he say $250,000 you have to make? It was just a suggestion, he meant those 97% who can afford medical insurance. Did they mention you’ll have to learn Chinese because China has a major holding of federal financial instruments sold by the government? Then, of course, the Internet will have to be censored because an unhappy commentator is not a cooperative “citizen” to the motherland of China. Embrace the inevitable.

Common sense says to abandon this bribe-ridden debt-inducing monstrosity, and create separate bills for the various so-called “good ideas” in the current bill. Then vote separately on each of those provisions.
The American people will then have a better understanding of what each separate bill entails, and the bills with bipartisan support will pass easily and get signed into law, whether Democrats or Republicans are in control. Believe it or not, there are many things related to healthcare that the Democrats and Republicans DO agree on…
But we all know why the Democrats need it to be all bundled up into one all-or-nothing package… because many of those separate provisions (including the “bribes for votes”) would never pass nor have popular support, if voted on separately. And I’m sure Republicans have used similar tactics in the past, when they had control of Congress. But the system has not been so obviously abused and broken as it appears right now, with Pelosi and Co. in charge.

This unconstitutional scheme is not democracy. How many weak willed “leaders” will chuck their principles out of fear of the great Obama? The profiles in courage here will be the ones who say, “I will not be a part of this ludicrous, desperate effort to betray the American people’s best interests.”

If the Queen of the United States of America EVER had the votes, then she’d have called for the vote already. She’s not going to wait a SECOND if she thinks the math is in HER favor.
This “vote” will be, in fact, a declaration of resignation for anyone who lacks the spine to listen to “We the People” and vote “NO” to the agenda proposed by “Prince of Fools” in the White House.
The countdown has already begun, and the Demo_rats have LOST the respect of the INDEPENDENTS that allowed them to ascend to the throne of power in this country.
Their party is FINISHED in 230 more days.

The costs of nearly a trillion $, and in reality much more, don’t include higher personal costs in premiums and taxes. Who’s naive enough to believe Obama’s lies that 30 million people can be added and reduced costs. I guess there are those eager to be willfully deceived. Sigh.

“Is anyone surprised the Slaughter Rule was dreamed up by the democrat politician from NY? ”
Actually the “Slaughter Rule” has been around since the 70′s and was not invented by Rep. Slaughter.
You want to take a wild guess as to which party has used this maneuver the most? That’s right, the Republicans, under the leadership of Newt Gingrich and Denny Hastert.

I agree with Todd, a few posts above: get your hands out of my wallet! The health care bill is dangerous on so many levels and will only perpetuate the entitlement society we have become. Hearing Pelosi say that if health care is passed, people can “quit their jobs to paint or write without worrying about losing their health insurance”, is both ridiculous and damned frightening. “Stop it!” is right!

“It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.”
Yes, but neither have the politicians, and that scares the crap out of us.

How is this not a big giveaway to the health insurance companies?
They get billions in subsidies and new customers that are required by law to buy their product.
I don’t get it. What happened to the public option?

“every idea has been put on the table, every argument has been made, everything there is to say about health care has been said and just about everybody has said it… Now’s the time to make a decision.” – Barack Obama, March 3.
VOTE. IF THE VOTE IS NO, TOUGH COOKIES. VOTE.

Hey Herb Greenebaum, you’d better hope the health care program covers mental illness..you’re going to need it!!! Canadian’s and Britian’s like their plans on the one payer system? I think you forgot your meds today!!!
Ask the PM of Canada what he thinks of Canadian Health Care? He loves it soooo much, he came to America to have his heart fixed.. You’re a really PUTZ!!

30 million what? Illegal aliens? They’ve broken CA, now they’ll break the rest of the country all the while sending their money back to South America. We deserve this crap Obama is ramming down our throats, just for being stupid and voting these morons into power. Hold your nose and swallow…kids…theres a lot more where all this came from…in fact… if they have their way…it’s just the beginning.

plantain11 wrote (at 7:06pm): “It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.” Uh, plantain, most of the CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS who voted FOR this stuff have NOT…READ…IT! This was only discovered, by the way, by informed citizens (the ones YOU have just accused of not reading it) showing up at these town hall events this past year and quizzing them directly, about it. Have YOU read any of this stuff, plantain? Or, like Nancy Pelosi ACTUALLY SAID, do you want to pass this thing so that we can all ‘find out what’s in it,’ at THAT point?

Does anyone have the details on this bill? Such as, how much will it cost? Who will pay for it? (not just “the taxpayers”, but actual dollars and percents) What happens if the actual cost is more than projected? What/who is/isn’t covered? How does it become cheaper? Who will want to spend all the required time and money to become a good doctor without any sort of monetary reward? How can anyone make a decision to proceed with this bill without the answers?
Yes, nationalized healthcare works for some people in some countries, but I know from relatives living in different parts of the EU the inconsistent type of care received. Anyone know the number of people in a nationalized system who are unhappy about the care they receive?
Don’t get me wrong, I pay quite a bit for my family’s “consumer driven” health care. I am sure there are ways we can reduce the cost, but I do not want to sacrifice the excellent care I have seen.

hey plantain,
do you know what’s funnier than the majority of people who complain about the bill not having read it, it’s the people that trust our government and the pretty words they are saying when there is no final bill. I speak nice words even though I only care about my power and my money but I can fool all these guilty dorks with 2 flicks of my forked tongue.

If a CEO of a publicly traded company tried to say his company was profitable by matching up 10 years of revenue with 6 years of expenses, he would be committing fraud and we’d send him to jail. Yet, this is exactly what congress is doing with the health care bill. Their “savings” come from matching up 10 years of tax revenue with 6 years of expenses. This is FRAUD. IMPEACH PELOSI, REID, and OBAMA and then send them to JAIL for FRAUD and ECONOMIC TREASON.

What I find interesting is the number of so-called “uninsured”. 50+mm or so. I own a restaurant. Of my wait staff, NONE of them have health insurance. However, ALL of them manage to find ~$50 3-4 nights/wk to DRINK. A young male can get a major medical plan for ~ $100-150/mo. But their priorities are Shelter/Food/Beer/Car/Clothes/etc/etc/etc/health insurance.
Why is it my responsibility to make sure someone’s health insurance is paid for out of MY pocket so they can maintain their $800/mo alcohol habit???
And let me tell you this story isn’t unique. There are million and millions of young americans just like this who CHOSE not to have insurance.
Apparently I went about life all wrong.
Go to college, get married, establish career, have kids.
Apparently it’s supposed to be have kids, get low wage job, drink, complain that my life sucks, get someone else to pay for it.

There are burdensome regulations that prevent our current health care system from being truly free market efficient and competitive. This bill will only encumber the system more, and cost more. Many things, such as being able to buy from any company in the USA, would be a far more beneficial change.

“anti-abortion rights Democrats”?
Yay, David! Way to shill for the Socialists! Um, those “anti-abortion rights Democrats” are not necessarily “anti-abortion rights”
…they’re simply representing the 71% of Americans who don’t feel that taxpayer dollars should go to fund it. The nerve of these zealots!
That this is as close as it is is amazing considering the Soviet-style media cheerleading going on on behalf of this insane government take-over. And this is a great example.

You get an email from a Nigerian who says that if you only pay him $100,000 he will give you a gift-wrapped surprise that will reward you well beyond the $500.
You say, “Sure, why not, you’ve never wronged me before!” And of course you’re screwed.
The only difference between that and Obama/Pelosi/Reid and their wacked out loony lib Dems is that they have already screwed us over many, many, many times before…
I say “You’re out of your ever-loving mind – stay far away from my health care!” These idiots can NEVER be trusted!

Kucinich ride on Air force One sold his sole for that one ride. so much for the righteous attitude. Well his wife is a Millionaire so he is safe and after his defeat will drift into another unknown in history.

Why do liberals always think they know better “what is good for the people” than the people do? I don’t need the government to be my mommy. I had a mommy that taught me to take care of myself. It is absolute arrogance that Obama and his ilk would continue to press this legislation on an unwilling populice. Obama et al are banking on the opposition growing tired and giving up the fight. What they don’t understand is with each underhanded tactic they take up the opposition only grows more energized.

Hey Mark from Atlanta, of that 30,000,000 you mention, 15,000,000 are young people who CHOOSE NOT to have insurance. Not because the rates are too high, most insurance for young adults is not that expensive. They would rather spend the money on beer. When I was self employed, I never paid over $165 a month for full coverage and I have a pre-existing condition. Another 5,000,000 get it offer through their job but opt out because again, they would rather spend the money on their iphones and beer. The remaining 10,000,000 truly do need some form of assistance and if the point is to help them, then why not just expand medicaid? Why pass a trillion dollar bill for a few million people?

HORRIBLE BILL —– 1) If you needed any proof that the bill is just a power grab for “big government”… Imagine that there are 159 NEW boards, bureaucracies, and programs created in this bill…. 159!! — 2) Its way too expensive, only being “deficit neutral” because they are using 10 years of income to pay for 6 years of services. — 3) It will STILL leave 16 million Americans uninsured within 10 years per the Congressional Budget Office. —- 4) Insurance premiums will STILL rise for the average American, mainly because the bill places mandates on the insurance companies without addressing the underlying health care “costs” that increase every year. —– 5) Government entitlement programs have never proved efficient or inexpensive, yet they want to add another one. Why not address Medicare’s unfunded liabilities of $86 Trillion first, or we won’t even have THAT program in 25 years! — 6) There are over 20 NEW taxes in the Senate Bill, most affecting all Americans, regardless of income levels. — 7) For the first time in history, this bill will force Americans to buy a product simply because they live here… can that stand up in court rulings?

Nobody likes this bill, but 30,000,000 people need this bill. Who wants to be the one to deprive them and prove this country favors idiot wars that cost trillions and destro trillions to doing decent if imperfect?I vote for a health care surge to be followed by a period of guided maturity.

I think that the Democrats are going to pull through and do the right thing. Most of them are getting tired of being Obama’s puppets and know that they have made a lot of mistakes this past year. How many have come out recently and stated that they are not running for reelection. They know that their reputations have been tarnished. I have yet to hear one member of Congress say that they have read this whole bill and know what is in it. Common Sense tells you not to vote on something you haven’t read. Come on Democrats, distance yourself from Obama and Pelosi. They are only going to bring more harm to the Democratic party. Yes, we need health care reform, but we need one that can be understood.

aardvark —- You suggested that “30,000,000 people need this bill”! —— Well, considering that the Congressional Budget Office stated that ther would still be 16 Million uninsured within 10 years of this bills passage…. that means that we will pay (Hmmm… $1.5 Trillion / 14 Million) — a WHOLE LOT of money per person!!!!!!!

Why are members araid of making a mark and taking stand? Is being a political coward the way to go.
I hope the vote will indicate who was in favor and against the health bill. If not, then all those who vot for the bill should be receive their term limitaion and be voted out of office in November.
Chuck Binkerd

Posted by: Ardvaark | Mar 16, 2010 11:01:01 PM. stated that nobody likes this bill, but we need it. That is like saying, “Oh, I don’t know what is written in my mortgage loan, but I’ll sign it anyway and it costs me 100 times what my home is worth. There are usually state and local programs to help people facing a medical crisis. You don’t sign up for something that will more than likely hurt you on down the road.

It isn’t what is in this bill that is the most frightening, it is the path that this bill puts the US on in terms of healthcare. I’m convinced that is what this fight is over. Some folks just are comfortable letting the government handle their day to day lives. Those folks are lost and there is no hope in convincing them otherwise. I just wish they could limit that view to themselves. Why do you want the government to increasingly control me? What have I done to you to deserve it? Once passed this will only grow. This entitlement will continue to grow long after Obama is gone and his current promises (even if he is sincere) will mean nothing.

Michael – “30,000,000 men, women and children need Congress to pass this bill. For many of them its not a political issue its a life or death issue.”
This 30 million number has been debunked over and over again (actually it started at 46 million). Almost 18 million of them make over $50K a year and almost 10 million of them make over $75K. This bill will only require them to purchase insurance, similar to a tax.
There is another 14 million who are already eligible for programs like Medicaid and SCHIP (for children) but just do not sign up for it. This bill will do nothing for them.
I’m not sure where illegal aliens fall in this count anymore but over 10 million of the original 46 million were illegals.
The rest of the people are considered the “working poor” and they will only get an expansion of Medicaid. While it’s better than nothing we can and should do better – maybe vouchers so they can buy their own insurance?
The 30 million number is a political issue and used by people like you who assert that it is a “life or death issue” when you neglect the facts behind the numbers.

Earl. if you did at least one minute of reading two things would have struck down what you posted. A- Insurance for uninsured children will commence immeadiately. 2- Pre existing conditions will no longer be an automatic denial for purchasing health insurance. As for your time lines. Hiow long does it take to build any large organization? Do hotels in Las Vegas get built in one night? Or, do they take years to build. At the same time all espenses for the hotel have to be paid for. This bill is the beginning of the end of insurance company predation of us, WE THE PEOPLE.
SECREG666

Direct abortion: still the opposite of health care and forbidden by the Hippocratic Oath.

Loyal opposition, if passing health care means the end of the Democratic party. Shouldn’t you and the rest of the liarcons just vote for it. Don’t you find McConnells warning to the Democrats even slightly amusing?
SECREG666

SECREG666 —- The problem…. once an “entitlement” program gets enacted, its hard to revoke!! —- We can always hope, however, that people are sooooo po’d that they give the GOP a supermajority!!! — HUH???

No way yhis bill cost 1 trillion over 10 years. I have read that the gov’t is currently spending 2.5 trillion a year on healthcare, so tell the people how you are going cut 2.5 trillion a year down to 1 trillion over 10 years? When its all said and done you will probably be looking at 20 trillion over 10 years!

For any and all who keep thinking Canada or England have great care – are you insane. Ask them how they like their health care! I spent 4 years in England in the Military. The English HATE their health care system. And yes…I have used it. When the base wasn’t able to provide a service we had to go out in town. At that point I found what sucked worse than my military care…the wonderful monstrosity so many of you want. Wake up…when/if this is done – it is virtually impossible to undo.

Just the manner in which this legislation is being bumbled and rammed through shows us how they would actually handle healthcare itself.
Mismanaged before it even becomes an entitlement, reasonable people are very fed up.

You wingnuts don’t know what’s in this bill, you just know what names to call it, supplied from the flapping jowls of Rush Limbaugh.
The GOP doesn’t actually have your best interests in mind. They are owned. If only you guys directed your insane hysteria in the right direction… toward those actually screwing you over.

Rob:
It’s interesting that the supporters of the bill haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
You foolish boob. Still support Obama? Go back to school and learn something.

This mess has never been about healthcare, it’s about control. In nearly every city in the USA, there is a hospital that by law has to provide you with care. Regardless of whether you can pay for it or not, so the “life or death” is BS.
I for one don’t want the same people who are currently running the Post Office, TSA, Medicare, Medicade, Social Security, Fannie, Freddie, the bailouts, and Government Motors to mention a few, into bankruptcy. No thanks.

Posted by: plantain_11 | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:48 PM
It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
* *
Can you name one person who HAS read the bill? And which bill are we talking about – the Senate version, which the House may “deem” to pass without holding a vote on it, or the supposed fixes to that bill, which haven’t been released yet?

I keep hearing intelligent points from people who oppose this bill and all I hear from the supporters are “well you didn’t care when Bush did blahdeblahdeblah.” Honestly, that just makes me more convinced that this bill is nothing but bad news.

The people who want this monolith passed don’t know how to read and wouldn’t understand (in any case) even should you read it to them.
There should be some way to tabulate the number of entitlement programs proponents of this bill (posting here) are on vs. detractors. That would speak for itself.

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin

So what do you liberals think Ben Franklin would say about Obama’s intellect and his health care plan?

Guess I should have read more than the first line as I knew where it had come from.

I really can’t understand the reasoning by anti-abortion people or groups as it relates to this issue. If they are so righteous in determining that abortion is wrong how can they on the other hand want to deny millions health care coverage? Where is their decency and compassion when it comes to this? It just seems so hypocritical. Certainly there is just as much if not more would be suffering or potential suffering involved with lack of health coverage than the issue of an unborn fetus. Besides, just because abortion coverage is written into the bill, does not mean each individual making the decision of whether to have an abortion is forced by the bill to have an abortion. They still will have a choice and the ultimate decision still lies with the individual. I would hope all house members come to their senses and make the right decision and not be misguided in their decision by anti-abortion activists as it relates to this bill.

Government is broken. The economy is broken. Health care is broken.

Let them pass this bill…then the Republicans will slaughter the Dems in the fall and in 2012. Then let BO limp out of office and retire to Plains, GA with the other biggest idiot to ever reside on Pennsylvania Avenue, Jimmy Carter. Nancy Pelosi can be their maid in between her Botox injections. January 20, 2013 can’t get here fast enough–then good bye to someone who ran the greatest campaign in history and as President could sadly only read from a teleprompter…while Rome burned…but I forgot–IT IS ALL BUSH’S FAULT. YAWN

Hooray! Looks like Dems are finally getting a backbone. Republicans COULD have joined in and made a very different bill had they wanted to pass anything at all – now (thankfully) we don’t have to care what those who could care less about uninsured Americans think – just as it ought to be.

So glad history will show the GOP’s true colors. Fighting against healthcare for the uninsured – tooth and nail.
Just like conservative fury has completely eroded African-American and Latino support – so too will those who are uninsured that this bill will help.

Sef – I’ll take a president reading from a teleprompter ANY day over reading a children’s book while a massive terrorist attack was taking place. I guess he was just reading at his grade level….

Ubipetros – you mean like Sarah Palin going to Canada? Is that what you meant? It sounds like that is what you meant.

It’s amazing to me how quickly you libs will abandon your principles to get your way. Remember that hope and change, new era or government stuff your president promised? How’s that working out so far?
Promise – Obama said health care would be a bi-partisan effort, out in the open, televised on CSPAN for everyone to see.
Lie #1 – From the beginning, Republicans have been told to sit down and shut up on the health care bill. This has been a completely partisan process from the beginning.
Lie #2 – Rather than be out in the open, this thing has been riddled with sleazy back room deals. Payoffs for moderate Senators, unions, etc. If this is such a bi-partisan, open process, why are they having to buy off members of their OWN PARTY just to get it to barely squeak through?
Lie #3 – C-SPAN, yeah right.
Promise – no tax hikes for people making under $250k.
Lie #4 – Besides letting the Bush tax cuts expire (which is a tax hike in effect), this health care bill will raise the taxes of every working American. They might call it “premiums” instead, but it’s still a tax.
Remember, this whole mess started because they lost their 60 vote majority in the Senate, so they can no longer kill a filibuster. They literally ran out of people they could buy off in the Senate, so they have to avoid it completely.
Did previous presidents, including Bush, use reconciliation to get things through the Senate? Sure. Did previous congresses use parliamentary tactics designed to shield representatives from having to go on record voting for unpopular bills? Sure.
But have any of these previous presidents or congresses used these tactics to ram through massive legislation that affects 1/6th of the economy and has a massive impact on the lives of every American? Nope.
If Bush did any of these things, you libs would be screaming for impeachment. But Lord Obama lies more in his first year than Bush did in 8 years, and you’re all still right there on board with him.
I guess the ends only justify the means when the ends are progressive.

It all comes down to who is willing to face the voters with a yes vote….Baird in Washington will go yes because he’s already announced he won’t run again….That is where the problem is….Many that voted no in November haven’t announced or filed that they’;re running again. Some haven’t raised any money and are probable retirees…Obama knows that and is probably is offering them jobs in the administration if they vote yes…..

I have MS and in a wheelchair a LOT. But even I think Obamacare will destroy our medical system.
Sure, there are a few things needing worked on but not to this extent.
The saddest part is, I voted for him. Oh my God, what have I done?

David, this isn’t exactly rocket science. If they really believed that this bill was a good thing, and had the votes to pass it, they would have done so already.
But the powers that be are currently busy trying to figure out just how far they can open up their veins without dropping dead in the bathtub.

Conservatism is the minority. The majority of Conservatives vote liarcon. It’s a mystery to me. Why is this happening. Liarcons are against the advancement of the people they allegedly represent. The red states are the largest recipient users of Federal funds and services. These are the people the liarcons represent. What are the people in the red states thinking? Is voting against your own best interests a good thing. Stupak from Michigan does not have an abortion clinic in the 37 districts he represents. The Hyde act would stop any federal money from being used to buy and pay for an abortion. Stupidpak has taken an impossible position. It’s the equivalent of trying to kill all the roaches and bugs on the planet. It can’t be done. Abortions are a fact of the 21st century. In fact abortions have been going on at least since the Greco-Roman times. You don’t want you or your daughter to get an abortion. Don’t do it. Don’t pay for it. Don’t use federal Funds to pay for it. Just have your baby. It’s not Stupidpak, or anyone Else’s right to tell women what they can or can’t do with their own minds and bodies. Thomas Jefferson, an original founder, eventual President of the United Sates was a strong proponent of separation of powers. If your religion says abortions are sinful and will send you to a fiery lake and eventually helll. don’t get an abortion.
Why is this an issue. In America people are permitted to do what ever they want to do with their bodies. Who is Stupidpak to dictate terms and try to change law through the health care bill.
From 2000-2008 the conservatives had the House, Senate and the White house. A conservative Supreme court as well. did they do anything to move health care? No! Did they try to stop S chip which is a Federally funded program to cover the indicant stem cells they continually try to save? (now real children in need of government subsidized health care) Did they try to change Roe V Wade? No! Why? Because it’s a wedge issue which they Will;l always keep to separate themselves and keep their base. To all od you conservatives, You were sold out. 2000-2007 Liarcons cut taxes and increased spending. A sure way to put our country into the depression which started almost 13 months prior to Obama taking office. Bush did not include the unfunded programs and two wars in his budgets. How does that make you feel about your support of liarcons? You must feel awfully foolish! if I supported Bush and saw what he and the liarcons did to our country I would want to choke myself. Sometimes you get what you ask for. next time you start to spread lies about what health care means, think twice before you speak. HCR is a good idea and it’s good for the country. Liarcons have no plans and all they can do is threaten their Dems how badly they will lose if health care passes. Maybe they doth protest to much.
SECREG666

If this fiasco of a bill is passed, down the road follow the money. It will be fascinating to see where these loser politicians end up: what boards (particularly pharmaceutical companies) they will sit on; what firms they will be “consulting” and lobbying for; who their major donors for future campaigns will be IF they have the nerve to run again. The ones , like Nelson, who sold out are going to get payback. This is a disgusting episode in a very venal period of American history.

Obama and his band of anti-American Marxists and Commies he hand picked for his administration are doing everything exactly the opposite of all his promises he made to the American people.
Don’t give me the crap about all campaigners make promises they can’t keep.
It caused Bush 1, “Read my lips, no new txes”, to be a one termer, and I vow to do everything possible for all Obama’s lies to make him a one termer.

The disgrace is not in the American people, but the arrogance of those holding power. Democrats at all levels will pay dearly at the polls for at least a decade. The Democratic Party, through its leadership, has committed the equivalent of political suicide. No matter the result, or the final vote this week, the Dems, as a party are done. I never thought this could happen in my lifetime. It’s sad. It’s sick. It’s the beginning of the end. Dems, say good bye, because you’ll never enjoy this kind of power again. You overplayed your hand, and there is no turning back of the clock. The damage has already been done.

We must pass the bill to see what’s in it?
Is Pelosi nuts, would she buy a car or a home without seeing it first? This whole health care issue has made Pelosi and Reid look like Presidents Obama’s stooges.
They have shown no common sense on this issue at all and have ruined the reputations as serious congressional leaders.

It’s interesting that the majority of props and acolades of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.

Dan-All the Republicans and Democrts who did not protest going to war were watching the rubble and debris from the 9/11 attack. Is that the same “blank check” that wasn’t buying all the equipment needed for our troops? Make up your mind what you’re goig to whine about.

$1 trillion in new taxes, $132B in deficit reduction over 10 years. How wisely will our healthcare dollars be spent? You do the math. Government, stay out of my healthcare!!!

I’m not crazy about this plan as it stands, but the real critics should have their friends in the Republican party offer something better than fighting mal-practice suits. I’m not the sueing type, but if they would get off the “King of the Hill”, they could come up with real solutions.

WHAT IS RIGHT?
The President recently stated the following,”Doing right is more important than politics” that is both a complex and assumption related statement. It’s perhaps best for anyone desiring to do what is right to define the word. Right is analogous to beauty, often found only in the eye of the beholder. In the definition of this word one needs to know, as Ernest May of Harvard has often observed, the individual’s history in the head. Life experiences can effectively mold an individual’s definition that is critical to identifying one’s underlying assumption.
Is right literally to be found only in the person defining the word, if so it can simply be a restatement of a person’s strong internal, personal, and prejudicial preference. Some leaders literally act as if they know what is right for everyone. However, right can also be externalized in seeking a definition by asking “what do most people conclude constitutes right?”
Right is more important than politics? Right can also be viewed as a complex word. In our democratic form of government the Bill of Rights and the Constitution require of our leaders that they have the consent of those they would seek to govern. As uncomfortable as that mandate is for a chief executive who has fought long and hard for the office he now holds, the political consensus component cannot be excluded from any working definition of right. I am not arguing that the majority is always correct. I do assume however that negotiation and compromise often lead to a broader perhaps more effective definition as to what is truly right.
Perhaps the founders in their infinite wisdom were mindful of the ancient scriptures that state, there is safety in a multitude of counselors. Absent in literature written about democracies is any definition of right based on secret deals and decisions which have not had the benefit of serious public discussion.
What is right? Again, like beauty it may well be in the eye of the beholder. It also could result from any premise validated by discussion, morality, ethics, and reason. Being a Douglas Mcgregor, Theory Y person, I have found wisely distributed among America’s millions of citizens many talented, intelligent, working, freedom loving Americans who have great ideas and opinions that can assist any listening President in arriving at a definition of right. I am not convinced that all knowledge and correctness is merely invested in one person. Autocracies and dictators don’t work for me, I am an American.

I’m all for health care reform… but we should be looking to lower costs first rather creating a new TRILLION dollar entitlement the country cannot afford.
How about tort reform to weed out frivolous lawsuits? Some doctors pay upwards of $200,000 per year in lawsuit insurance and guess who ultimately pays the bill? Us! What about allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines? That’s real competition. You can create a meaningful health care bill that encompasses less than 5 pages than the 2,200 pages monster Obama-Pelosi-Reid are trying to ram down America’s throat.

This is the last lap of the Dash for Cash. It is not about health care, it is about bankrupting America and causing discord and confusion.

This is for Mark from Atlanta. R U kidding me? 10-20 million are illegals, maybe 5 million are composed of the under 20 crowd and those that can afford it but don’t want it, so that leaves what? maybe 5 million? Pay for them out of your pocket – not mine and leave the rest of us alone. We’re already paying enough for those that don’t work, don’t have medical insurance or car insurance and don’t ever intend on getting a job or paying for anything on their own. And for plain_11 – have you read it. According to Pelosi – there isn’t even a bill to read….so how are you so priveleged?

I question the judgement and mental stability of our current leaders. Their recklessness verges on the edge of insanity and I have lost all confidence in them. I pray for the safety and future of our great nation.

The real question is how the Democrat Party with such unasalable majorities, could make such a rotten hash of matters, not just health care, in 16 months.
It is really jaw droping to realize how badly Obama, Pelosi and Reid have stumbled.
It is an awesome display of incompetance.

THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING! If you continue to ignore us an let this piece of crap be shoved on us, don’t be surprised when you get a pink slip come November. YOU WILL BE FIRED!
We want REAL and MEANINGFUL health care reform. This scam to throw money at what is broken and break what works is not it.
Get off the fence (you know who you are) and show some balls OR ELSE!

This bill is an outrage! How is it possible, with the current spending levels in other areas, to afford this beast?
Show us the numbers, have the CBO post their calculation and we can at least discuss it rationally. Otherwise we are being force fed a financially devastating blow to a very very fragile economy. This is politics not health care.

“When there is no justice, there will be violence”.
Any questions now why there is a nationwide ammo shortage?? Lotta people arming up.
Democrats will have to pull the trigger first. And they will.

plantain; The “shadow” knows…..

Mark from Atlanta: that 30mm people need this is HIGHLY debatable. It is probably no more than 15mm when you weed out illegals and those who have opted out. The bigger question is: how do we pay for this? WE HAVE NO MONEY! And by the way, everything government touches fails: education, Medicare-caid, SS, public housing, public tansportation, welfare. You are cluless.

30,000,000 men, women and children need Congress to pass this bill. 300 million men, women and children need Congress to KILL this bill.

It’s interesting that the majority of supporters of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it. But they want to implement it.

Kucinich will fold and vote yes. If he were any more spineless he’d be a gelatinous cafeteria dessert. This haggis of a bill, laden with huge taxes and massive entitlements will…without a doubt…bankrupt America. We’re already bankrupt, but this bill will seal the deal for good. With outrageous tax hikes in the coming years to pay for this madness, 2010 could very well be the last time that anyone can make any money. Enjoy the stock market rise, because it will not last.

Herb, As a person that has friends living in the country’s with single payor health care I would prefer to stick with what we have. Heck, government leaders from around the world come here, that says it all. Now if anyone were serious about “fixing” health care they would look at what works and doesn’t work ihn all these other country’s and start with tort reform and portability.

Plantain, it goes both ways. The people that support this bill that will affect every American have not read it either. They’re willing to blindly trust Obama and his administration despite the lies, under the table deals etc.

Thanks for providing the list. It will come in handy to target the yes votes come November..whether passed or not.

We’re taking over! H*ll or high water we’re taking over! Whether you like it or not we’re taking over!!!!

Congressman Adam Smith (D-Tacoma) voted Yes the first time on Government Takeover of Health Care, but has been saying he is undecided this time around.
His office is being deluged with calls against the bill. His opponent in November has already come out against the bill.
Smith is a vote which the Obama and Pelosi need to protect if they want to pass the bill.

The news media OUGHT to be reporting on exactly what Obama and Pelosi are offering these people in exchange for their votes. Just the usual garden variety corruption, like jobs and pork for their districts? Or something more, like cash in the freezer, vacation homes, offshore accounts and cash from George Soros, owner of the DNC. Come on folks, enquiring minds want to know!

Ed Taylor wrote: “No-one has been able to explain how a government that has failed to manage all entitlement programs to date could suddenly find a magical way to eliminate the very waste, fraud and abuse it seemingly thrives on…”
==============================
Ed, that’s probably because, in health care, government has managed Medicare better than private industry – so you’re a little off base by claiming it has “..failed to manage all entitlement programs..” I say “a little” because private insurers only spend 71% of your and my premiums on health care compared to 94% for privated companies in Japan (no government insurance at all) and Switzerland. So the private companies have failed us even worse.
Right now, it costs the government 13% more per subscriber to pay private companies to run the alternative Medicare Advantage than it does for the government to run the 3:1 preferred Medicare B. And in the past decade, total costs for Medicare B have risen an avg. 4.5% per year vs. 7.5% per year for private insurers.
And, if you buy products on the Internet, you may have noticed that the Post Office -which is self sufficient and which by law gets NO taxpayer money- is the cheapest way to ship packages from many vendors.
And yet, if you want to go to a Post Office there’s usually one close by, whereas Fedex or UPS might require a half hour drive.
So, there are cases where the government actually does better.

“Hey Plantain_11
It’s interesting that the majority of those promoting, campaigning and rubber stamping the benefits of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.”
The people who’ll be “deeming” it haven’t read it yet!

If the press did an honest job reporting wihtout bias we would not be in this mess with dihonest elitist lefitsts leading congress and in the white hosue.
there is nothing honest or moderate about Obama never was never will be.
The far left is not fit to govern in America.
elitist leftists and marxist unions thugg looting our County that is what the bias in the press has given us!
thanks for nothing abc
HEALTHCARE BILL IS NOTHING BUT A TAKOVER IT IS A DISASTER

“but it works for the vast majority.” – Herb Greenebaum
By that logic, the current system works for the vast majority, here in the states.

A term that has been largely forgotten in our techno age of immediate information, applies especially now.
“The hijacking of our Constitutional Republic.”
Pelosi looks at times, like the girl high school club president who gossips, arm twists, excludes, includes, has an inner circle, and finally manipulates her little queendom so as to be important.
This has always been about her. And increasingly, she is little more than Obama’s receptionist secretary..albeit on a large scale.
A disgusting human being, Nancy Pelosi would have been chewed up and spit out in a corporate structure, once exposed.

Do any of these Commies/DemonCats have any idea why they’re there (washington) to begin with?
Impeach Obummer, send every one of these communists back where they come from.
none of them represent American people and their interests.
NONE of them deserve to be in the government.

Continue to call the fence-sitters and tell them to vote “no”. It’s true, NOBODY wants THIS bill. Not the conservatives… Not the progressives… Not the republicans… The ONLY reason people want this bill to pass is to prop up a FAILING President.
Great reason to spend a trillion or so tax dollars.

they are determined to pass this, with out even letting the members of congress see what they vote on, much less the public. we can’t afford this massive income transfer from workers to slackers. it is like you got mugged of your wages by someone upset that you still have a job.

Let’s call it “Fuzzy Math”… “Creative Math”… a “Curve” of unprecedented proportion in circumventing the will of the majority of American’s who are “already” subsidizing a Free form of Gov’t imposed healthcare thru their hard-earned taxpayer $$$ & Insurance Premiums all in the name of taking care of those without. Call it what you want, but the manipulation of the ‘numbers’ by cutting special deals, threats, etc. is a travesty in itself and fly’s in the face of us all.
I hope those of you who voted for “this change” are happy now because you have surrendered your “voice” of choice moving forward

It’s interesting that the majority of supporters of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
Also Pelosi et al don’t have a clue how this will affect our health care delivery. A recent poll showed that nearly 50 pct of doctors will quit or take early retirement if this passes. You cannot expand coverage and lower costs without price controls resulting in major declining quality. I remember the gas lines during the Carter administration due to price controls.

Congress needs to follow the Constitution. Does the word “treason” have anu meaning anymore? How do we remove elected officials who ignore the Constitution?

The only hope left is for a military coup. If the generals love this country, they will take over and clean out the congress. Then we can start over. Otherwise, we will all go down with the bankruptcy of the country. That’s what banana and the other liberals want. Take over and take them all out.

This whole thing began because Washington mismanaged the existing entitlement programs, resulting in the impending insolvency of Medicare. Why can’t we simply fix Medicare? Why create this massive new entitlement?
Taxes will increase, of this there can be no argument. So go ahead and raise my taxes. But only to fund the existing programs of Medicare/Medicaid so that they can provide care for the people who need to be provided for.
But do not raise my taxes for the purpose of expanding the federal government, who have decades of history proving they cannot be trusted with taxpayer funds.
And do not mandate that I buy into a national pyrimid scheme or become a criminal. I have insurance, and I like it. Giving insurance card to a poor person does not mean they can meet deductables, make co-payments, or afford the expenses that are not covered.
Fix the system we have in place, and fund this through a tax increase. Save this guaranteed multi-trillion dollar expenditure. Rather than add to, perhaps we could pay off some of our grandchildren’s debt.

Bottom line on this healthcare bill is this…Americans for the most part DO NOT want it. To the politicians voting for it, good luck come November. You too will join the unemployed. To Nancy Pelosi, you lust for power and control will be your demise. To President Obama, enjoy the rest of your single term, you won’t be coming back for a second. You stated at the state of the union, “jobs must be our number-one focus in 2010″ and yet revamping the health care industry to seize more power and control of the American people’s lives while increasing a government entitlement program despite being able to pay for it tops your agenda so far in 2010. Change we can believe in? Well certainly not the change Americans want. In 2012, you will lose miserably, but most deservedly.

Moochers have no more right to free health insurance than they have a right to cut into my paycheck and help themselves to what they please.

If this is what the American people want, as we have heard to no end, why then is it so damned hard to pass legitimately? If the Republicans are holding up progress as the administration likes to point out, why do dems have to bribe and coerce dems? Slaughter solution=total cull of both house and senate. Oh, and thanks to you republican coelenterates for not addressing this issue when in power, you added napalm to the progressive fire.

Collect the money now…no benefits for 3 to 4 years….hmmm. Is the money going into the same lockbox as all the Social Security funds?

It’s interesting that those that defend this bill have never read it and have no idea what’s in it.

If it is not good the way it is .. fix it. Get both sides on board and the American people. The only thing that is bi-partisan about this is the opposition. Our representatives should not be doing this, this way.
Why are they not trying to make it right and get something the people can support? Is there an answer that is not scary?

It’s interesting that the majority of platitudes and compliments of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.

Even if they pass it, it’s just going to be either repealed in 2012 when we kick Obama out of office, or it’s going to be declared unconstitutional and thrown out by the SCOTUS…so we should be ok either way it goes. It’s just a waste of time by the dems..as usual.

The Democratic legislators are aware that if they vote yes in many districts it’s a political death sentence.
What it will come down to, I suspect, is how many folks Obama-Pelosi-Reid can bribe with judgeships for brothers and kickbacks, to make them willing to sacrifice their political futures for a loser bill.

Note to Herb Greenbaum – The rest of the “civilized” world does not use single payer systems. Most countries with gov sponsored health care use non-profit co-ops and exchanges. Countries like like Canada and the UK that have single payer systems have rationed heath care. Countries like Germany that use regionalized exchanges have much better success.

It will pass… and then the American people will truely wake up and realize what has happened. There will be 2 election cycles to elect people who will repeal it. What happened to our country? Anyone ever look at what is happening and realize that the America we grew up in is being snatched away in a “in plain view” socialist coup? Sickning.

For the people who are arguing that the bill isnt being read: No one read the patriot act either, and looky here; it passed, and the tea party wingnuts arent complaining about that. Some people sure dont know how things work.

I have a plan: I am no rocket scientist but, this smells of overhead and overruns. Now the plan: imagine requiring current doctors to help x% uninsured and then the goverment giving them a break on their taxes as reported on there regular tax returns… and behold, no insurances companies and nothing new. And oh, have you ever been to a hospital, no one gets turned away, now what are they asking for in this “new” plan??

Is our Democratic Republic broken? If they pass this shameful monstrosity we will know that it is. The current crop of Democrats that control the Executive and Legislative branches care not for the Constitution and will employ any corrupt trick to impose THEIR will on US.

What was he bought off with? We WILL get rid of him in the elections. Of course, he has probably been offered some embasy job in exchange for his vote.

I’m just hypothesizing here, but if I were a subversive Al-Queda member who became elected to the highest position in the US Govt, how would I bring down the US? I think the best way is to bring it down with the adolation of half its citizens. I would be a false prophet who promises everything but in reality all I do sink the country further into debt and partisanship. By the end of my term the finances of the US would be on par with Mexico.
I’m just saying….

Kucinich is a fool – says there will be no government run healthcare – please. We are not stupid. By the time they are finished with this in 5-10 years, we will be fleeing to Cuba for our healthcare.

Mark, You don’t die from not having Health Insurance. Of the 30,000,000 who don’t have it, how many don’t have it voluntarily? Do you know? Are all 30,000,000 about to die without emergency surgery that hospitals have refused? (They can’t, by the way..and there are plenty of programs to help out there)
The point is, the problems could be fixed by reforming medicare, and getting rid of the hundreds of billions of waste and FRAUD in it.
We don’t need to force through this monstrosity that will affect the 270,000,000 people who do have and are happy with their health insurance.
We don’t need to bankrupt the country!
Why won’t the Dems just start over and fix Medicare? Because they wouldn’t have all that government control doing it that way. Because we wouldn’t be closer to socialism that way.
We can’t afford this! We could afford all the fixes EVERYONE wants by reforming medicare to help the people without insurance. We could curb the insurance industry though bills.
People like you are swallowing this hook, line and sinker. We don’t need to do this, but you’ve bought into the talking points. Sad.

All the president has to do is take the Democratic little babies for a ride in his shiny new airplane.

“Of course these systems aren’t perfect, but everyone is covered and no one goes broke in the face of illness. Ask most Canadians or Brits or Aussies and they are quite satisfied with their healthcare.”
That is funny. No goes broke, yes, but people do die from lack of quality care. Look at the numbers, honey, and you will see that this is the place to be when it comes to healthcare. Cancer deaths, for one, are far higher in those civilized countries you mentioned, especially ones that can be very successfully treated if caught early. Yes, many people are satisfied with their care. However, if you follow European news you would know that it is certainly NOT absent from constant criticism. There are serious issues with care across the pond and in Canada. Personally, I would choose going broke over receiving poor healthcare.
“where were all the protestors when bush asked for a blank check on the wars?”
That’s cute, but you are comparing apples and oranges. While a fair argument can be made against the war, national defense is something specifically enumerated in the Constitution as a federal power. Nationalized health care is not.

To those who promote health care as a right, not a privilege. There is no question that ownership of a gun is a right that is expressly given in our (that’s both yours and mine!) constitution. I therefore demand that the government provide each and every citizen with a gun.

Regardless of your patry affiliations, there are some basic questions that both sides should demand answers to.
.
Why are we reforming insurance when the real problem is out-of-control medical and drug costs?
.
Where is the guarantee that the tax money collected for the next four years will be saved and untouched for use in this effort?
.
Why have all previous attempts at stemming fraud and abuse failed? What specifically is the radical change that will make it happen this time?
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Why must the entire system be reinvented when less than 15% of the LEGAL population is affected?
.
If 68% of Americans do NOT want this reform, and the Democrats swept in on a 61% vote, how can “ALL” of the democratic constituents overwhelmingly support the measure?
.
We are a “republic” where things are done for the benefit of the majority of the people, not done to kow-tow to the needs and whims of every single person. What would “be nice” and what is affordable and sustainable are two very different things!

Several libs say that the protesters against this bill haven’t read it… well, two things on that. First, many of us have read the house and senate bills (i read most one and all of the other) that were voted on (in the case of the senate bill, we only really had the opportunity after they voted on it… so much for transparency). However, THERE IS NO bill to read right now. And at 2k pages, it will likely be all the bad things in the previous two.
It should be required to post the FINAL bill for 60 days for the public to read before any vote happens… the only reason they are rushing is because they DO NOT WANT the public to know what’s in it.
Hey, the problem with the libs is that they are neither reading the bills, nor comprehending the implications of what they are reading or hearing. It’s typically liberal feel-good wishful thinking.
One last thing… insurance companies are profit driven, they have 2.5-3.0 pecent profit margins. They are efficient as they can be. Does anyone really think that the non-profit motivated, taxpayer subsidized, US government is going to be more efficient? Did you know that government run healthcare rejects more claims than private insurance companies? Get the facts, folks.

Most of the support for this bill comes from people who haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
Democrats are in denial when they claim that polling “internals” show that their constituents favor passage because they agree with isolated components. For example, they state that “everyone agrees” with the concept of forcing insurers to disregard pre-existing conditions. One would expect that the words “at what cost?” would be asked by any legislator as a matter of course, but we have clearly elected a group of irresponsible idiots to represent us. It is frightening that so many of these buffoons are willing to state an intention to vote yes before seeing the CBO analysis.
The fact that this “health care” bill also gives the federal government control over all student loans is also alarming. That idea deserves at least as much sunshine and debate as health care reform.

You forgot about the lone Republican, Joeseph Cao, who voted YES, and is now voting NO due to the abortion language.

Mark from Atlanta, NONE (zero) of those 30 million people are being denied health care! Everyone of them can walk into an emergency room or hospital and be treated. So please remove your “life and death” comments. This bill is truly a “Political Issue”!

Obamacare
Cap and Tax
Reduced image worldwide
I wonder if the next Republican in the oval office will say that he ‘inherited a huge mess.’

Posted by: Rob | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:46 PM
It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.
***
more interesting is that the majority of people voting on the bill haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.

Nobody at all has read this bill. It is 2500 pages of mind numbing, self-referential gobble-gook. It was designed to allow plenty of room to hide little controls and bribes and felonies. Nobody will ever understand the whole thing as it is beyond the scope of a single human mind.
This is intentional.

Why pass something almost certain not to work? …and we won’t know for sure for years since many of the provisions are delayed because we can’t afford them now (or ever?)
For political reasons!
It is all a power grab by politicians who think they know better… in spite of having failed over and over at all they have attempted throughout their lives.
Professional Politicians are good at only one thing: politics. They hide their weaknesses and blame others for what goes wrong.
Would you hire any of these guys to fix plumbing? …electricity? …computer? …or design your home? NO WAY!
“Fix” a ticket or defend you when you’ve made a mistake or committed a crime… maybe then you’d hire them!
Why would you allow this to go though?
Either you are a person who also cannot make it on your own and blame everyone else for your failures… i.e. you’re on the take like the politicians… or you are simply ignorant of political history.
To believe that trusting yet another bunch of politicians will finally get a health system that works… given the long history of failures in all things were open-market competition does not rule… is simple insanity.
Dear “single payer plan” friends: you tout the efficiency of this system in various countries…. read the news from those countries! They are in continual turmoil about shortfalls in the quality of care, the availability of needed services, the lack of funding an the poor oversight.
Consider this: why would you think that a government that cannot oversee security, Wall Street, current entitlements or their own members fidelity would be faithful in taking care of YOU? …they don’t know you, they don’t get enough money from you to matter, and your vote is just like many others that they regularly buy with empty promises!
If you are not happy with Wal-Mart or McDonalds’s … you can vote that day by taking your business somewhere else. You CAN punish a business by NOT shopping there. It is immediate!
If a politician or a bureaucrat fails to serve you properly … how long do you think it will take to get their attention, let along redress???
Don’t fall for their lies. They have long been proven to be untrustworthy.

Mr Greenebaum you talk of the UK and Canada system as a sucess. If this is true why did the Premier (I think thats his tile) of New Foundland went to the U.S. for treatment. Call me paranoid but the Dems have got to have an amazing October surprise in the works to even think about passing this piece of #%&!.

I’m just so happy and relieved that all the discussions between Obama, Pelosi and Kuchinich, and all the other representatives called in for one on one meetings, have been open and televised on C-Span for the public to see. Could you imagine how bad it would be if these were secret meetings, and the American People would have to worry that who knows what was being threatened or offered to get OUR elected representatives to vote the way the President wants? Thank God I live in the USA and not some corrupt third-world country where the People’s voice really doesn’t matter!

“It’s interesting that the majority of complaints and criticisms of the bill come from people that haven’t read it and don’t know what’s in it.”
-Posted by: plantain_11 | Mar 16, 2010 7:06:48 PM
It is also interesting that the majority of proponents have never read it either…..this includes our Speaker.

We here in North Dakota grow tired of our only representative, Mr. Pomeroy voting for the Democrat party and not for the people who elected him. A majority here do not want this bill, but once again I imagine that congress knows better than the citizens what is ‘best’. Come November we’ll see if we can ‘adjust’ that nanny attitude!

Next on the plate …
Amnesty for 25 million illegal alien, mostly the poorest of mexico. If the left doesn’t pass it now, the new mexican voters and the resulting leftist congress will pass it eventually.
People don’t understand the big picture here. The libs have declared war on american, the shock troops are about to be unleashed on the voting booths.

Impeach Obama

Why is the average American against this? Look at what the average American will get from it: Higher premiums and higher taxes starting immediately. Let alone $1.2 trillion to the deficit over 10 years. That is NOT lowering healthcare costs as promised by Obama.
Healthcare reform is necessary…but a majority of Americans have said no to this very bad bill.

******SHAMEFUL******
Obama and Pelosi fail to obtain votes from Democratic representatives, so they will just rule via fiat!
A lot of folks – including this one – voted for “change” in 2008, but the leadership team that has ruled (NOT LEAD) the past 14 months has been a combination of embarrassment; shame; disappointment; and TOTAL DISGUST!
These ploys are the same that we would have expected in the USSR in the 1950’s! They have FAILED to listen to their constituents. They are making members of their own party look like a group of fearful lackeys – bordering on behaving as COWARDS (not the type we will reelect in November!)
Obama – with the able assistance of Pelosi and Reid – are bankrupting this country. One day in the near future they are going to wake up with the revenue producers relocated to business friendly shores. They will go down in history as the architects of America’s demise. Who will keep the union chiefs in high cotton then???

“And this one didn’t appear to be too easy. As recently as last week, Kucinich was publicly stating his intention to vote no on the bill. However, they are only going to get harder to flip from here on out. Rep. Kucinich represents a district President Obama won with 59% of the vote in 2008 and he is a safe bet for reelection to his seat in 2010. That is far from the political situation in which most of the members who are being targeted to flip their votes from no to yes find themselves.”
They would have s=aid something very similar about the senate seat in Massachusetts a short while back – In fact, that was probably deemed safer.
Dennis Kucinich . had better not take re-election for granted. If this monster becomes law thanks to his vote.
Also, if it does pass – taxes will increase immediately and so will millions of jobless claims, business bankruptcies, foreclosures, etc.
Any benefits to anyone that may actually be in there somewhere will not kick in for 3-5 years.

Obama, Pelosi, Reid, George Soros and Andy Stern and co are taking our country right off the cliff. They hate this country and everything is stands for. People are starting to wake up I hope it is not too late.

IF THEY PASS THIS BILL AND START COLLECTING TAXES ON IT NOW, THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY NOW TO SHORE UP ALL OF THE OTHER PROGRAMS THAT IN THE RED NOW, like Social Security. They did this with Social Security deposits, which in the private sector is called embezzlement which is why elected officials who authorized the theft of social security should go to jail.

Dan — Bush is not president. He’s been effectively gone and neutered since 2006.
What’s your juvenile point? That If Bush was stupid, Dems have a right to be stupid too?

All they need is to buy a few more votes from Congress using our taxpayer money. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Check out this hilarious parody commerical on Obamacare and Socialism:

@JMo
Yes, single payer option would lower cost…it would also reduce your access to healthcare…just like the rest of the civilized world. You can’t increase the demand on the healthcare system without increasing the number of providers. I’d like to see your source for the Aussie and Canadians that are satisfied with their healthcare…I don’t buy it.

JMo wrote: “Ask most Canadians…” Okay, I’m Canadian. Single payer is great if you don’t mind dying in an emergency room while you wait your turn. Or dying while waiting for heart surgery. Or waiting for months in agony while waiting for a hip replacement. Wait, wait, wait. That’s the mantra of Canadian health care. People in Winnipeg drive to smaller rural hospitals an hour away rather than wait for six hours in the emergency rooms of city hospitals. And did you know it’s illegal in Canada to buy private health care or even private health insurance. Our Supreme Court recently ruled that “access to a waiting list is not access to health care.” But the politicians still refuse to act, even as they fly down to the U.S. to get their heart surgeries. The Canadian health care system is doing a slow motion collapse and rationing is already a reality. Why do you Americans want to repeat our mistakes?

THIS IS ABOUT CONTROL…plain and simple…the limousine liberals who love to take and spend everyone else’s money want to take over nearly 20% of the economy.. that is why they will do ANYTHING they can to pass it. If passed it will be open the door to BIG BROTHER GOVERNMENT encroachment on AMERICAN CITIZENS. I never thought America would fall this way. I want to cry!

Jimbo:
There were PLENTY of protestors against the War in Iraq. Remember the big march in Washington? The TV news showed them every chance they got, which is not necessarily wrong. A free press can counter propaganda (FOX is most popular now).
Michael:
We can help those 30,000,000 get healthcare without destroying the country or hurting the remaining 200,000,000. To think otherwise is falling for a false dichotomy.
I disagree with respect, my friends.

Thank you President Obama for leading the charge for health reform. WE SUPPORT YOU.

I think we ALL agree that their needs to be big changes in the Health Care system, but NOT through this monstrosity of a bill, i.e., to completely dismantle/re-build the whole bloody system.
What I want to know is HOW the Gov’t expects to run a HC/entitlement program under this bill, efficiently and effectively. Not to mention NOT costing taxpayers money. The Gov’t has NEVER done it before and it NEVER will! Anyone with half a brain can “do the math” on this one.

How can the House of Representatives pass an amendments bill to a Senate bill it did not pass?
Doesn’t the Senate have to vote on the House’s amendments bill?
What will the President sign — separate Senate and House bills neither of which has been approved by the other?
Can you spell “constitution”?

As I read someplace else, the Democrats are on the verge of signing the longest suicide note in history. Can’t say I disagree with that opinion.

What have they done to America? These liberals are sickening. Who ever votes for them is just as evil as they are.

Consent of the governed? Hell, we don’t need no stinking consent!

As a conservative I hope they pass the bill. Why? Because as soon as this country goes completely broke we can eliminate all the entitlement programs.
What’s wrong with our current system… About a month ago I was at the grocery store buying some food to take to work. I can’t afford to go out to eat for lunch. A lady in front of me is buying $80 dollars worth of prime rib and some cigarettes. She hands over the food stamps. The cashier says you can’t buy cigs with food stamps. The lady whips out a $100 bill to pay for the smokes. So let me get this straight. She has plenty of money for cigs but not for food. That’s our system folks.

ROB – YOU haven’t read it either because it hasn’t been finalized – THAT’s the point – the Dems are asking COngress to pass it and trust them that they’ll fix there concerns later. Sort of like the car mechanic saying – pay me NOW and trust me, I solve the problem later.

Let me see if I have this right:
This bill basically puts anyone who makes under 88,000/ year dependent on government subsidies for their health care. Now all those people can be controlled by threatening to affect their coverage.
It grandfathers current large employer insurance programs because there won’t be any new ones. And if you don’t like or agree with the kind of treatment you’re getting too bad – you can’t fight city hall. Once your neighbors realize how much your care is costing them they will vote to cut services provided. It will result in poor care similar to the UK.
Also Democrats are lying about costs going down. You cannot insure an extra 30 million people by the govt. and have costs go down. They just count the first 4 years when no one receives services as part of a 10 year average. The whole program is based on a deceit.
Why haven’t we heard anything from the big pharma about how this is going to hurt their profits or insurance companies? Because it gives them even more money. Deals were made. That does not cause premiums to go down.
Also your insurance compliance will be enforced by the IRS including fines and prison. To starving artists, students etc. that means you have to file a tax return to get care. Just sayin’. Oh and you will still be required by law to pay for health insurance even if you receive subsidies.
Costwise I would say maybe everyone could give up their cable tv, cell phone, cigarettes, drive 50% less and make your own pizza, use less TP, skip your vitamins and accupuncture and you might be able to afford the increase in your health care payment or the new one if you didn’t have to pay before.
Better reform law could have been made but the Democrats refused to accept reform for excessive lawsuits, and increased competition. Why? One of their largest goups of financial supporters is trial lawyers. Ask you doctor where all the money you pay goes.
Nancy Pelosi said yesterday that after she kicks the door down there will be more changes and additions. That sounds like a home invasion of every home in the country. Nice.
If our representatives are not smart enough to read the bill then they aren’t smart enough to make health care reform law. I suggest looking for better quality candidates next time.

EARL, EARL, EARL, Scroll back some and read Earls’ comment, spot on, Yes! Our forefathers are rolling in their graves, but the Constitution has been eroding by the efforts of the Marxist/Leftist (Lucifer-Satan)since the day the ink dried on the document. They are just one step away from the final nail in our coffin! Go figure.

There was a leader of a Canadian province who, rather than go to his own Canadian Government-run Health-care system, spent his own money and came to the USA and got better treatment. It happened VERY RECENTLY. Here in my town there were 2 Canadians who came to my hometown in the USA and did the SAME EXACT THING. Know what they had to say about their system?
“Health insurance is OK until you are sick or have to go to the hospital!”
You think HMO’s are a nightmare?!?!? YOU AIN’T SEEN NOTHING YET!!!!

Imagine if your Representative/Senator was given a bill 5 INCHES THICK (15 CM)
2 HOURS before they vote on it. Do you know how much CRAP they can EASILY HIDE in that bill?!?!
Some of these people aren’t even reading the dam thing before voting on it.
The Government is saying “TRUST ME. I KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR YOU!”
Well, DO YOU?!?!?

Yeah, tne single payer option would be great for all the homeless and jobless. The rest of us, who now receive great health care through our employers, will be equaled down in quality with the rest of the people to reach a lower quality of health care for all except the Government folks who will be ruling over us Serfs. Only the congressmen themselves will have great health care.
Grandpa, if you need that stent put in to keep you alive just fill out the form and expect a letter in the mail we’ll set that up for you in 7 months.

Herb Greenebaum | Mar 16, 2010 7:00:02 PM wrote:
“Single payer, the system which Canada and GB and much of the rest of civilized world uses, could work here if the entrenched interests would stop their campaign of lies and fear-mongering. Of course these systems aren’t perfect…”
The problem Herb, is that single payer is too expensive for any nation not propped up by a power greater than itself. Britain, Canada, et al. all rely on the good ‘ol US of A to provide the security and defense they and the rest of the commercial world relies upon for free trade and exchange of goods and services. The fact is the US taxpayer already subsidizes the “single payer” systems of the European states you so admire, but we cannot afford our own, lest we give up military superiority, which is the first responsibility of any government whatever the ideology. If the USA were to accede its leadership role in the world, the world would fall to chaos, and no health plan under the sun will insure the health of the world’s peoples. The bloodshed would overshadow anything heretofore witnessed or imagined. That would be the dividend of your precious “eutopian” single payer plan. But remember utopia means no-place, not as you would have it the good (eu) place (topia).

It’s time these Jackles meet their demise, I say as we all should be saying “Off With Thier Democratic Heads” To the gallow’s ye shall be lead, To no longer fester this cancer of a bill.Via-condios Amigos, in other words Kick Rock’s Jackasses.

Anyone posting here who is upset about government takeover of healthcare, who is also on Medicare, needs to take a good long hard look at themself. I’m looking at you, aging white male, as your inchoate all-caps rage spills across the page.
Funny thing, when the Republicans wanted to pass a bloated Medicare bill that gave away money (with no way to pay for it) to well-off white seniors, nobody cared that it was $1.2 trillion of borrowing. But now that Obama wants to pass something that would help 30 million less well-off people, many of whom are dark-skinned, and is at least TRYING to pay for it, well gee that’s SOCIALISM. I guess it depends on who the benefits are going to; if it helps elderly white middle-class voters it’s a shoo-in, everyone else can go die.

Read the bill for yourself.
Find out the difference between what the Media tells you Obama is promising you in this bill and,
What the bill actually promises and when it promises it.
If you are 18 or older and have a pre-existing condition now and need health care in the next four (4) years.
Your screwed if this bill is passed, better start looking for affordable funeral insurance and a good bankruptcy attorney for your family.
.
.
.

I think the giant reward given to LA D-Landrieu in the 1st go around has created a monster. I think the democrats now on the fence are waiting to get there big reward for a vote so they can go home with a wad of cash for their district when they face reelection. Without stating how I feel about the bill, I think this whole thing is the most exciting congressional event since the ’02 elections. Maybe since ’94

finally the biggest injustice in this country is being addressed.
no, not the billions to bailout the fraudulent bankers, the time will soon come to address that.
it’s about the millions of Americans that have no access to a doctor and are 40% more likely to die each year because of it (harvard study, look it up).
no, republicans did not present any serious alternatives to this plan, nor were they willing to negotiate to include more of their own ideas.

If this passes this country will never be the same. Obama is not the king! There are three branches of government. This congress which was supposed to be the most honest is the most corrupt ever. Thow out the democrats!

mark- no offense, but the 30 million that you reference are here illegally, and I don’t want to pay for their health care. They can go home.

I had a Russian girlfriend who, after immigrating to this country, worked and saved and led a comfortable, though not luxurious lifestyle (Nissan instead of BMW, for example). She told me that she could not understand how someone would remain poor in this country. It may not be easy to become a millionaire (the honest, non-Dem way, that is) but one can comfortably cover life’s necessities here. That affirmative action empty suit and his cronies, a large share of whom seemed to be poor before entering government/politics, don’t understand that.

If you liked the free billions given to the banker, GM and Wall Street you are going to love billions that Health Care program is going to cost. And many young people will really enjoy being required to purchase Health Care because it is the law. Government control is getting out of control … telling people what they can or can not eat or do.

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin

PASS THE BILL – -
The Republican party is like a boy who killed his both parents and feel sympathy for being an orphan himself.

To anyone that believes this is going to be a magic fix it pill… Sadly mistaken, all it would be, if passed, is a minor victory for Dems so they can say that they did something.
Sadly people will still be dieing, it’s simply a way of life, health care is not a right.
P.S. I don’t have health insurance either, but when I do, I’ll be glad to pay for it. Wouldn’t even want “free” health care, bet those doctors would be the top 10% psssshhhhhh please.
Dems pass this and hello “Private health care, private hospitals, private doctors, nurses, blah blah blah” never want my doctor to be pushed upon me.
Freedom of choice people. Our government has grown to big. They are trying to tell us what we need. They work for “us”, not the other way around.
Government pay cuts and health care overhaul is what we need. Down with “career” politicians.

These Dems are destroying their own party!! What idealogical idiots!! Even if it passes 30,000,000 deaths before it even starts!! Leave it’s to the bleeding-heart libs to “#” up everything they touch.

I am thoroughly disgusted by this administration. I have never in my life seen such disjustice and out right lies told to the american people. We don’t want this bill and they don’t care. Obama wants to go down in the history books as passing healthcare whether it is right for us, or kills/breaks us. Besides the fact of who throws in Education into a healthcare bill? What the heck is that? It has no business being in this bill. Our seniors in this country are at grave stake. Who are they to tell us what is good for us? They can’t even pay their own taxes or balance the budget, and they want to sell us this line of bologna! Tyranny has entered this administration since 2008 and they must be stopped!! Go over to Europe and try out your plan there!!!

Thank you Mr President and the courageous democrats. This is not too popular right now and many of you will get punished for it but you slug on at obvious risks to your jobs, and yes safety.
Passing a policy you believe in over you career used to be called selfless service. That used to be a reason to elect officials. This President will never be accused of looking out for himself!
Let them do their job. It is a representative democracy. We elected them. If its not good we’ll improve, modify, or repeal it. Simple. This things are complex and there’s lots of misifonrmation and too much dust right now. Even people who praised the CBO when they rated older bills badly are now basically stating the CBO is either made of fools or baised folks or do not understand math. And most of those posting do so on misinformation on their own.

My father was a medical doctor who started his practice in California in 1957. His office visit charge was $9.00. This price did not increase for 10 years. In 1967 he finally had to raise his office visit to $12.00 and by 1973 to $18.00 (100% in five years.) That is a 20% yearly increase, all due to the fact that Medicare and Medicaid (enacted in 1965) only paid between 70% and 80% of submitted charges. How do I know? I was his accountant.
Dad practiced in a small farming community six miles from Di Giorgio Farms in the San Joaquin Valley. His clientele were a few private patients, some insured individuals (no large companies nearby), and poor farm workers (the Caesar Chavez years.) The healthcare revenue stream now is very complicated, but during these years (1957-1975) the financial remuneration came from these three revenue sources. Please note that the yearly increase of 20% that my dad had to impose on his patients was DIRECTLY related to the percentage of non-payment of submitted charges to Medicare-Medicaid!
The true cost of health care since 1965 has ALWAYS been subsidized through the backdoor taxation of private payers and insured individuals paying ever-increasing premiums. Will anything be different this time? No! In fact, the Federal government is THE major reason prices have increased over the last 45 years!
What THINKING American would ask a group of people that know NOTHING about the intricacies or ethics of healthcare, to come up with a plan without consulting those who are actually doing healthcare? Anyone who believes that the current healthcare proposal is good for America is either ignorant or interested only in a major political power grab! It IS possible to fix the few major problems in the system without trashing everything that we are actually doing with excellence! What arrogance Congress displays!

It is due or die time for the real Americans of this country to stand up and
take our country back. We all have to wake up and take a closer look at the people we elect to represent us in Washington. We have the power, unfortunately we the people have elected
the cancer into Washington that is now in
power. The Liberal/socialist have hijacked
the Democratic Party, they DO NOT have the
same belief’s of the traditional Dems. They want western European style Socialism. They want to control every aspect of our lives,this heath bill is just the starting point, Obama is on record admitting this.He used the example that Canada didn’t get to a single payer system overnight, it took time. So, the time is now fellow American’s. If you want to live in a socialist country, there are several up and running, not well, but running, move to one. I will help you pack. If you don’t then stand up,pay attention to who you vote for, vote the Liberal/socialists out on the butts and take back OUR COUNTRY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, please vote NO, NO, NO on this. There are too many reasons to list here. It will harm us all! I live in the Detroit area and Canadians cross the border on a daily basis to receive health care they cannot receive in Canada, including the prime minister! Michigan is in a terrible financial situation and cannot afford the higher taxes on businesses and individuals. Start over and proceed with scruples and honesty.

Judy – They keep saying that they would set up an exchange similar to what federal empl;oyees have for their health insurance. If this is what the government plans to do the monthly premiums (based on the FY 09 FEHB rate) for a family plan would roughly be between $425.00 and $1300.00, for an individual the monthly premium would roughly be between $177.00 and $550.00. If you want to get an idea of the insurance then just google FEHB.

This is the craziest thing I have ever seen Congress ever do. It does not make sense and not even the President knows what is in the Bill. They have given up on the Country and their jobs. I hope they don’t include every liberal agenda in the reconcilation package or did the people forget that the house is planning on giving the Senate the power to do whatever.