F-35 Fighters Now Double the Cost

How much longer can we afford to blow people up?

Now Congress wants to offer design specs. for fighter aircraft.. a second engine.. a second opinion.. do they get a commission from the jet engine manufacture?????

Blowing people up is cheap. Making some one rich off of blowing people up is what makes all this expensive.

So we don’t buy the plane, and have no loss or dinero nor safety.

You people sound very un-American. We (America) have (and need) the best weapons to maintain peace in the world, because no one else can do it. I would honestly love a world where such weapons were not needed, but that is not the world we live in. Making the weapons is not the issue here, but mismanagement of the project is. The F-22 is superior to the F-35 in every respect save cost. The only reason the F-35 should have been developed was to reduce cost. Now that a F-35 costs almost as much as a F-22 why are we still pursuing this project?

To DontGet818OnMeNow and anyone that pays taxes: Our electoral system is a legal bribery system – private Big Money Interests support elections and get the majority of the intimate power meetings with elected officials. When are Americans going to smartin’ up and demand public airwaves fairly delegated to candidates and public financed elections to improve our corrupt govt? Duh America!

And if we do not have the best fighters on earth are the liberal weenies going to protect the American families from attack? Or are they going to do what the French did during World War II and suck up to their new conquerers? As far as winning wars since WW II, the military doesn’t have a chance to win a war when the “peaceniks” rise up and the congress forces a withdrawal or when the ACLU defends our enemies. The generals of North Vietnam have disclosed they were ready to surrender when the American peace movement and the American congress forced the military to withdraw. The military can’t really fight a war to win, because the president, congress, and the liberals worry more about civilian casualties than military casualities. They worry more about how the enemy is treated than the danger they put our soldiers in by tying their hands in combat. A soldier should have to follow a rule book to kill an enemy nor should a soldier have to read an enemy his rights when he captures one. If I were a soldier today, I would take no prisoners. I would shoot them even if they had their hands up in prayer. We would win the war that way and we wouldn’t have to coddle them and we wouldn’t need Gitmo. Why are all the liberals not concerned about the millions spent to build Gitmo? Now they want us to close it when we need it most.

The reason the F-35 is still going and not the F-22 is because the F-35 is a multi-national fighter. The F-22 is superior in air-to-air combat, speed, and handling, but the one of the F-35s will have a STOVL capability.
I worked on the F-22 and that was 80s maybe early 90s technology.

I agree that the US needs a policy of more love less fighting and less sheer undo paranoia.
However, we do need this fighter for several reasons. This is an advanced 5th Gen fighter that will put us many years ahead of other countries. It is my sincere hope that it will be a large, yet expense, deterrent to additional conflicts.
Second, it will be reducing the number of different airframes in our inventory, which will allow the military to operate more efficiently and cheaply. The US will now have pretty much a couple types of bombers (heavy lifting and stealth), 3 fighters (Warthog, F22, F35), the long bow helicopter, the new air tanker and a couple different large cargo aircraft. Sounds like a lot, but its a dramatic reduction.
Third, it will mean we wont need replacement aircraft or new designs for many decades to come.
As for a twin engine version, let the military do its things and keep congress out of it.

Next generation of fighters will be
cheap and remote controlled.
The F22 will do until then.
The F35 is a colossal waste.

What did everyone expect? The longer it takes, the more it will cost. If Congress had allocated the funding back in 2001, it would have cost less. Inflation and the half million changes from the original design are going to bring up the costs. Do we need this new technology – only if we want to be able to sleep peacefully in our beds at night – the military keeps us safe and allows us to gripe freely about how bad we have it in the US of A.

Hey Brian Miller, go take a bath. Where were you during the ’91 Gulf War,the Iraq War, and other conflicts prior too and since Desert Shield/Desert Storm? Banging your drum and tambourine? Those struggles were won … no thanks to you.

We really need a multi-purpose, multi-service fighter-attack platform for the services and a high superiority fighter-interceptor for the Air Force; both of which will replace the aging fleets of F-15s and F-16s in the Air Force and F-18s in the Navy and Marines. Perhaps the F-35 Lightning and the F-22 Rapture are not what is needed. Maybe some up and coming aeronautical company ought to get a one-time boost in capital investment and be allowed to compete. That is how a lot of today’s smug and pious companies got their humble starts over half a century ago. It’s a little late, but perhaps we as a nation ought to promote that kind of competition with capital investments and loans. Those that succeed get rewarded with lucrative contracts to build more aircraft, and those that are greedy go broke.

Another prime example of our military industrial complex inaction. The fact that parts of military planes such as this come from every state in the union is no accident. By doing it this way, the manufacturers are virtually guaranteed that the program will continue. Congressmen and women don’t have the stones to stand up to the programs, they buy the promise of “jobs for their constituents” hook, line, and sinker. It also doesn’t help that there is more or less a revolving door between this industry and the areas of government supposedly overseeing it. You’re never going to have programs on budget when the inmates are running the asylum.
Finally, Montani, there are so many factual errors in your post I don’t know where to begin. When was the last time a foreign fighter plane attacked the U.S. Mainland? You would probably have to go back to the Japanese balloon bombs of WWII. Also, your notion that the North Vietnamese were ready to surrender is wide of the mark accoring to just about anyone familiar with the conflict. The Vietcong were content to fight to the last man because to them, they were fighting for their own freedom. In their view, the United States was just another colonial occupier. They had known nothing but occupation thanks to the French, Chinese, and Japanese invasions since the close of WWII. We killed 3 million people and they still wouldn’t give up! So with all do respect, please pick up a history book before you make wild and unfounded claims.
Oh, and you would surely be court martialed for “shooting them even if they had their hands up in prayer”.

You brought up a good point Stuart. The F-16 and the Navy/Marine F/A-18 have both evolved into platforms capable of keeping up with the state of the art throughout their production periods. And yes, I believe both are still being produced in their latest configurations. Notably too, both designs experience a lot less airframe wear than many other designs and are capable of duel rolls.

f35 = waste

If I read the Reuters report correctly, the F-35 is actually a little over 50 percent over budget. Also, it seems the aircraft will not have a second engine, but congress feels a second supplier for an engine other than P & W will be a good thing. If there are problems with one supplier, the other can provide one for the single engine aircraft. Only a relatively small number of F-35 aircraft will have STOVL capabilities and will be used primarily by the USMC. Because the lift fan necessary for the capability takes up fuel and weapons room, the aircraft will not have the capability of providing sufficient ground support for our troops.

“Only a relatively small number of F-35 aircraft will have STOVL capabilities and will be used primarily by the USMC. Because the lift fan necessary for the capability takes up fuel and weapons room, the aircraft will not have the capability of providing sufficient ground support for our troops.”
The loss of weapons/fuel capacity is offset by the fact that it can land and takeoff in areas other aircraft cannot and it a great deal faster than any helicopter (or the Osprey).

If the F-35B was to be used as a troop transport, perhaps its faster speed than a helicopter would have value even though it does not have the loiter time and is unable to carry suffieient weapons to support our troops. However, it carries only the one pilot and its mission is supposed to be to provide ground support for the Marines. A big complaint about the F-35 is that it has too fast a speed to provide the accurate fire power that aircraft which can fly more slowly can. And…in in November of 2009 the Pentagon issued a request for proposal for a system to protect its carrier decks from the heat generated by the exhaust of the F-35B STOVL version. Their experience with the V-22 Osprey shows its exhaust is buckling ship surfaces. It is anticipated that the exhaust from the F-35B will produce similar buckling. Until they come up with a solution for the exhaust temperature, the aircraft will not be able to operate from any ships.

The aerospace defense industry has fast been reduced from many aeronautical companies to just a couple; Boeing and Lockheed. Gone is Grumman, McDonnell Douglas and others from mergers in the 90s; part of the impressive looking but hollow economy that was establishing itself then and that we are paying for now. There is a solution. Promote new industries and stiff competition. Reward those who produce top products and come in under cost and ahead of time while allowing greedy companies to lose their contracts and die on the vine. It is a brutal process, but it is time proven. Part of that solution is actually playing out now with foreign defense companies either opening up new headquarters in the U.S., their largest purchasing base, or going international. Neither is preferable to having genuine U.S. companies with a long history producing for the U.S. military, but that is what it is coming to. Soon, the aerospace defense industry will see the shift from overseas too.

from the always on point LGM:
US public health care spending per capita: ~$3200
UK public health care spending per capita: ~$2200
Difference between US and UK: ~$1000
Number of people in United States: ~300,000,000
Number of people multiplied by difference in public health care spending between US and UK: ~$300,000,000,000
Cost of an F-22 Raptor: $150,000,000
Number of F-22 Raptors we could buy following wholesale adoption of NHS: ~2000
Number of F-22 Raptors that the Air Force has wanted in its most soaring flights of fancy: ~650
Number that we have right now: ~187
Difference between the number that the USAF wanted and the number we have: ~460
Amount of money we’d have left over after buying the USAF, say, 500 F-22s: $225,000,000,000

F22s are too expensive. Let’s use the
money to satisfy SEIU et al. They’ll
help us fight for our freedom in the
coming years. Don’t forget the NEA…
they’ll be tough as nails against
Al Qaeda….long as their benefits
are sacrosanct.

US public health care spending per capita: ~$3200
UK public health care spending per capita: ~$2200
Difference between US and UK: ~$1000
Number of people in United States: ~300,000,000
Number of people multiplied by difference in public health care spending between US and UK: ~$300,000,000,000
Cost of an F-22 Raptor: $150,000,000
Number of F-22 Raptors we could buy following wholesale adoption of NHS: ~2000
Number of F-22 Raptors that the Air Force has wanted in its most soaring flights of fancy: ~650
Number that we have right now: ~187
Difference between the number that the USAF wanted and the number we have: ~460
Amount of money we’d have left over after buying the USAF, say, 500 F-22s: $225,000,000,000
Posted by: Flash Override | Mar 11, 2010 8:55:35 PM
oh for heaven’s sake. why are you confusing everybody with numbers and common sense? you must be a librul or or European or something. Here in the United States of America, the real people don’t believe in being inconvenienced by things like numbers and common sense, especially if it has anything to do with the most expensive, and by that I mean BEST, health care in the world.
;>)

In January Lockheed announced that there are no troubles with their F-35 program. They say that the F-35 development program is just 120 to 180 days behind schedule. They pointed out that the latest estimate from the U.S. government is that expenses are only anticipated to be $14 billion over budged. That’s one billion dollars less than the last estimate. According to Lockheed, overall delay estimates have now been reduced by eleven months to just thirteen months. Recently the Pentagon’s review of the F-35 discovered no fundamental technology and manufacturing problems. Officials are satisfied recent changes to the F-35 program will help keep it from going further awry. Lockheed’s has been called a great example of how the government and the defense industry can work together in a practical way by U.S. government officials. Lockheed recently stated that they are sure that they can get the F-35 program back on track. According to Lockheed, even though they are behind schedule in their testing, the testing thus far proves that the aircraft works overall. Only minimal issues were found during the 16 flights performed. Not very long ago the Pentagon reconfirmed their intent to continue funding the F-35 program. All this negative talk about the F-35 program is ridiculous given the statements by the U.S. government and Lockheed. Surely these are just normal problems in the development of what will surely be the primary joint strike fighter aircraft for the western world for years to come.

Some find leading edge engineering defense hard to think about here and obviously have no experience other than reading 2nd and 3rd hand thoughts, others seem to have worked in the industry and followed developments for decades…pretty mixed forum.

you must be a buddy of Palin, she also knows about the ‘real americans’
Posted by: PO’d | Mar 12, 2010 1:19:02 PM
Absolutely! She has no need for numbers or common sense either! Did you see what Flash Override posted? It was full of numbers and common sense and that has NO place in this debate– or ANY debate!! Not when so many people are willing to vote Republican again. We like making the same mistakes over and over again. Solutions to chronic problems are overrated,mister, and don’t you act like you can inform us!! It CANNOT be done. We like fear-based sound bites. Until you can offer up that, you might as well forget it!!