Forward March: New villains in old story, but Dems face own distractions
By Rick Klein: The health care push lingered long enough to get Democrats something new: some villains to make the story more interesting. (And that might even be a message that could break through, if Democrats weren’t doing such an effective job producing bad guys of their own right now.) Just as Anthem Blue Cross put a greedy corporate face on the health care debate, Sen. Jim Bunning put an angry congressional face on Republican obstructionism. They answer the two key questions the public has to be asking for health care reform to go down smoothly: Why do Democrats need to act, and why do they need to act alone? Neither characterization is entirely fair. Yet neither is it fair that, at the very same moment that Democrats need to come together around health care, another kind of vote-counting is going on to gauge support for House Ways and Means Chairman (still for the moment) Charlie Rangel, D-N.Y., while Gov. (also for the moment) David Paterson, D-N.Y., twists in the wind he kicked up. So it’s not a clear shot. But it’s a shot nonetheless, with just maybe some different dynamics, as President Obama commands all the health care attention once again: ABC’s Jake Tapper, on the president’s message with his 1:45 pm ET remarks Wednesday: “President Obama will indicate a willingness to work with Republicans on some issue to get a health care reform bill passed but will say that if it is necessary, Democrats will use the controversial reconciliation rules requiring only 51 Senate votes to pass the ‘fix’ to the Senate bill. “In his remarks, scheduled to be at the White House, the president will paint a picture of what he will say will happen without a health care reform bill — skyrocketing premiums, everyone at the mercy of the insurance industry as recently seen with the 39% premium increases proposed by Anthem Blue Cross in California.” In embracing some Republican-offered ideas, the White House got the headlines it wanted on Wednesday. Thursday’s and Friday’s need to look a little different. “By signaling that he is open to the opposition’s ideas, Mr. Obama struck a bipartisan tone even as the White House prepared the ground for Democratic efforts to pass comprehensive legislation on a party-line vote,” David M. Herszenhorn and Robert Pear write in The New York Times. Embracing Republican ideas — to get Democrats on board: “In a measure of the partisanship that has dominated the battle, his embrace of those GOP policies drew no plaudits from Republicans; instead, it appeared designed to coax votes from nervous Democratic moderates by demonstrating an attempt to cooperate with the other party,” the AP’s Alan Fram reports. “Obama's gesture to include GOP-backed provisions on cutting health costs and preventing fraud appeared to strengthen the resolve of congressional Democrats,” Lori Montgomery and Shailagh Murray report in The New York Times. “On Tuesday, Democratic leaders seemed increasingly confident that they could revive the bill and deliver it to Obama's desk, perhaps before the Easter recess begins March 29.” “The issues have been joined, we know where areas of commonality are, we know where the differences are,” senior White House adviser David Axelrod tells Bloomberg’s Kristin Jensen and Edwin Chen. “He will draw them out and talk about where that should lead us.” What’s in a word that won’t be spoken? “Obama is expected to stop short of formally calling for the use of reconciliation when he addresses his plans for health reform in remarks at the White House Wednesday, but officials say his message will be clear — Congress should take an up-or-down vote on a comprehensive plan,” Politico’s Carrie Budoff Brown and Patrick O’Connor report. “Even as all signs point to reconciliation — which would require 51 votes in the Senate to pass Obama’s fixes to the Senate bill — other problems surfaced Tuesday that could further complicate the Democrats’ efforts.” Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich.: “I don’t see members voting for the Senate bill.” Unless… “A survey Tuesday by The Wall Street Journal of all House Democrats who voted against the bill last fall found at least a half-dozen lawmakers who are now withholding judgment,” the Journal’s Greg Hitt, Laura Meckler, and Janet Adamy report. “Among them is Rep. John Tanner (D., Tenn.), who is taking a ‘wait and see approach’ to the bill and wants to see details, a spokesman said. Mr. Tanner, who isn't running for re-election, voted no last time, in part out of concern the bill didn't go far enough to control costs for individuals and small businesses. Rep. John Adler (D., N.J.), a freshman who won a Republican-leaning district in 2008, is also undecided, after voting no last fall. He said the Senate bill did a better job containing health costs.” Wait — more changes? The Washington Post editorial: “Many of [the Blue Dog Democrats] genuinely want the country to make progress on health care, but they are justly worried — as are many of their constituents — about enacting an expensive new entitlement at a time of rising federal debt. Our advice: Don't just agonize, do something. If the Blue Dogs stuck together, they could insist that health-care reform be made more responsible than the version recently endorsed by President Obama.” Why Jim Bunning still matters, even though he’s stopped flipping off reporters, and has given up his one-man blockade holding up an extension of unemployment benefits: “If the rules let Jim Bunning hold up unemployment benefits for 200,000 Americans just because he feels like it, maybe voters won't get so outraged when the GOP talks about how important the filibuster is,” writes Salon’s Mike Madden, who gets a-hold of the Democrats’ talking points. (And the DNC is all over this one — with local media hits on Bunning’s impact from Florida to Louisiana to Arizona…)
And remember what March was supposed to be about? “Whatever happened to that shift from health care to the economy?” Jeff Zeleny writes in The New York times. “That question came to mind as Mr. Obama arrived in Savannah on Tuesday, where he delivered a 17-minute economic speech and talked to bricklayers and steelworkers before returning home to settle in for another push on health care legislation.” What else March is turning out to be about: “Senior House Democratic aides say that House Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel is negotiating terms with Democratic leaders to step down temporarily from his post atop the powerful tax-writing committee, pending the completion of several ethics committee investigations into his conduct,” ABC’s Jonathan Karl reports. “But Rangel remained publicly defiant, emerging from a meeting with Democratic leaders tonight saying he would hold on to the chairman’s gavel.” “You bet your life,” Rangel said, when asked whether he would remain chairman. (“And I don’t lie to the press,” he added.)
Said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., to The Hill: “I guess he is still chair of Ways and Means…” Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Chris Van Hollen, D-Md.: “We are going to be meeting [with] the caucus to discuss the best way forward,” Van Hollen said, per Bloomberg News. The New York Daily News: “Rangel was bluntly told he doesn't have the votes to hang onto his powerful perch atop the tax-writing committee, and he will have to quit as chairman as soon as Wednesday… Rangel told confidantes during the day that he knew time was running out.” Likely results, with House Republicans poised to force a vote on the matter Wednesday: “Rep. Charles Rangel appeared poised to lose the chairmanship of the powerful House tax-writing committee as dozens of Democrats said they would support a Republican resolution urging him to step down,” The Wall Street Journal’s Greg Hitt and Brody Mullins report. “As many as 30 House Democrats could join 178 House Republicans in voting to oust Mr. Rangel as head of the Ways and Means Committee.” “A growing number of rank-and-file Democrats said they could not envision standing behind the embattled chairman given the likelihood that he would soon face further reprimands by the ethics committee, and Republican challengers would criticize such a vote in the fall elections,” David M. Herszenhorn and Carl Hulse report in The New York Times. Into the swamp: “Pelosi is facing her most serious ethics quandary since she became speaker three years ago, vowing to run ‘the most ethical Congress in history.’ Her fellow Democrats are also facing sharp attacks from Republicans calling for Rangel's ouster,” The Washington Post’s Paul Kane and Perry Bacon Jr. report. “A Democratic source had said Rangel was likely to ‘temporarily’ relinquish his chair amid rising concern among some Democrats that Rangel's troubles posed a political risk,” the AP’s Chuck Babington writes. “Rangel was scheduled to chair a Ways and Means Committee meeting Wednesday morning.” Elsewhere among Harlem Democrats… the political world is closing in on Gov. David Paterson. “A key figure in the domestic abuse scandal bedeviling Gov. David A. Paterson told investigators that the governor phoned to enlist her help in quieting the accuser, according to a person with knowledge of her account,” David Kocieniewski and Jeremy W. Peters report in The New York Times. “Deneane Brown, a state worker, was friends with both the governor and the woman who had accused a senior aide to Mr. Paterson of assaulting her last fall. The person with knowledge of Ms. Brown’s version of events said Ms. Brown was told by Mr. Paterson several weeks ago to convey a message to the accuser: ‘Tell her the governor wants her to make this go away.’ ” “Fallout from the controversy continued on Tuesday. The State Police superintendent, Harry J. Corbitt, who first admitted a week ago that state troopers contacted Ms. Booker in what he described as an effort to explain her ‘options,’ announced Tuesday evening that he would resign,” they continue. Gubernatorial candidate Rick Lazio, R-N.Y., on ABC’s “Top Line” Tuesday (and previously something of a Paterson defender): “He needs to step forward quickly and clarify this or he needs to step down.” And on the attorney general’s investigation: “It seems to me absurd, honestly, that Andrew Cuomo, as a political aspirant to the governor’s mansion not appoint somebody who is beyond reproach and independent and unbiased on this to conduct this investigation.” The New York Times editorial: “Gov. David Paterson gave New Yorkers his ‘personal oath’ on Friday that he had never abused his office. It now seems clear that, at the very least, he tried to arrange a ham-handed cover-up to avert a scandal involving a top aide. … Mr. Paterson has failed to account for his actions. If he can show that he did no wrong, he must do so fully and immediately. If not, he should resign.” A very good week for Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y.: “I was encouraged by many major political figures in New York to look closely at running for Senate,” Mortimer B. Zuckerman tells the Daily News. “However, at this time, it is very difficult to see how I can devote the necessary time to either a campaign, or to working in Washington, if I were to win.” Before we leave New York…. “New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg's top political strategist, Kevin Sheekey, will exit City Hall and return to the company the mayor founded, fueling speculation that Mr. Bloomberg is laying the groundwork for a potential White House bid,” Michael Howard Saul reports in The Wall Street Journal. “Mr. Bloomberg tapped Howard Wolfson, a nationally known Democratic strategist who served as a senior aide on Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign, to take over Mr. Sheekey's duties this spring as deputy mayor for government affairs. Mr. Wolfson accepted the promotion Monday, his first day on the job as a senior aide.” In Texas — not even close: “Kay Bailey Hutchison had many reasons to believe she'd beat Rick Perry for governor. But the anti-Washington wave swept them all away,” Wayne Slater reports in The Dallas Morning News. “Late Tuesday, she lost her bid to force Perry into runoff amid the whipsaw politics of a Tea Party movement able unable to knock off even a popular incumbent. … In any other election season, Hutchison's experience and skill bringing federal money to Texas would have been selling points. But not this year.” (And who thinks Hutchison will make good on her promise to resign post-primary?) Answering what’s next for Perry: “I’m really interested in who’s going to be the next president,” Perry told Politico’s Jonathan Martin Monday: “I have no interest in it being me in any form or fashion.” Writes Martin: “Gov. Rick Perry’s 21-point thrashing of Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison in Tuesday’s GOP gubernatorial primary offers the most vivid illustration yet of the potency of an anti-Washington message in an already volatile political environment.” The AP’s Liz Sidoti: “Winners: Texas Gov. Rick Perry and ‘tea party’ anger. Losers: Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison and anybody else tied to Washington.” The Democratic nod went to former Houston mayor Bill White: “White told supporters in Houston he expects Perry to try to ‘perpetuate’ himself with politics of division and distraction to avoid talking about Texas issues, such as high unemployment, state government growth and unfunded mandates for local governments,” the Houston Chronicle’s R.G. Ratcliffe reports. Nathan Daschle, executive director of the Democratic Governors Association, in a memo looking toward the fall: “In a toxic climate for incumbents, former Houston Mayor Bill White will run as an outsider who can bring people together. …The Democratic Governors Association is expanding the playing field deep into Republican territory in this election cycle.” In Arkansas — suddenly the marquee matchup for Democratic intramurals: “In the 36 hours after Bill Halter announced he would challenge Sen. Blanche Lincoln in the Democratic primary, the Arkansas lieutenant governor was embraced by a coalition of progressive groups that raised more than $1 million to support his campaign and are promising to spend millions more in independent expenditures on his behalf,” Roll Call’s John McArdle reports. The New Republic’s Noam Scheiber is the latest to profile White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. One telling sequence: “Last summer, as public support for health care reform began to recede, the president convened a series of meetings demanding to know why Democrats were losing the communications war. For his part, Axelrod argued that the administration lacked a compelling bad guy, having cut deals and observed cease-fires with industry lobbies to help ease the bill through Congress. ‘Axelrod would say, “We don’t have an enemy. During the campaign, we fought against insurance companies. Now we don’t have one,” ‘ recalls one administration official. Emanuel would invariably counter that the deals were essential to holding the package together. Jeopardize the deals, and you risked jeopardizing the whole project.” “From the very beginning, Emanuel had a clean, elegant theory for how to guide a health care bill through Congress. He’d closely studied each previous failure from Harry Truman to Bill Clinton and concluded that time was their biggest enemy. Because remaking the health care system is such a complex task, it necessarily requires complex legislation. And there hasn’t been a 1,000-page-plus bill in history that didn’t start to stink after several months. It’s just too easy for opponents to cull a few smelly details. So Emanuel placed a premium on speed…:” With the latest climate-change bill on its way, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., met with one of his nemeses: T. Boone Pickens, Politico’s Kenneth P. Vogel reports. “In an effort to build support for the climate change legislation he’s crafting with Sens. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Kerry last month met quietly in his Washington office with the two lawmakers and T. Boone Pickens, the Texas oilman behind the Swift Boat attack ads that helped sink Kerry’s 2004 presidential bid. The previously unreported session, which Kerry initiated, did not yield any concrete plans, but did find areas of agreement between the two former adversaries on the need for alternative energy sources.” “Don’t ask, don’t tell” repeal gets a bill: “Independent Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut on Wednesday will introduce the Senate’s first ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ repeal bill along with eleven Democratic cosponsors including Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, but no Republicans,” Kerry Eleveld reports for The Advocate. Meet the Spending Limit Amendment to the Constitution: “This amendment would limit spending to one-fifth of the economy (our historical spending average since World War II). The limit could only be waived by a declaration of war or by a two-thirds congressional vote,” Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, and Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., write in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. “As with other constitutional amendments, Congress would be given the authority to enforce and implement it. But for the first time, the federal government would have a limit on its size and scope. The Spending Limit Amendment does not promise a particular spending plan about what programs to restrain and by how much. Rather, it puts a legal constraint on lawmakers present and future.”
The Kicker: “For all the courage and testicular virility you think you have, if I did the things they said I did, and I did wrong things like they want you to believe I did, I’d be nowhere near this event.” — Former Gov. Rod Blagojevich, D-Ill., lecturing on ethics in government at Northwestern University. “I saw where it's been a few weeks of unfair, non-stop criticism, people who don't know the real story. And I just say, Jay, welcome to my world.” — Former Gov. Sarah Palin, R-Alaska, to Jay Leno, back on “The Tonight Show.”
For up-to-the-minute political updates check out The Note’s blog . . . all day every day:
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Obama: 'Now Is the Time For Common Sense Action'
Romney Takes Aim at Conservatives
Will “our” government stop at nothing to assume more control of our lives?
Will it stoop to new levels to achieve “its” purpose?
Can it not read the polls, the TEA parties, the GOOOH movement and just the general atmosphere outside the beltway?
Is this Obama a puppet of the Cloward-Piven strategy to take down our nation?
Does it realize their isn’t enough free capital to resolve the some $60 to $70 trillion of unfunded liabilities the government (democrat and republican) has incurred?
Did it read and comprehend the CBO report that Obamacare will raise insurance premiums for the average American? Does it even care?
The bottom line, ” IS THE OBAMA/PELOSI/REID TRIDENT “DUMBER THAN DIRT”, OR DOES IT JUST WANT ABSOLUTE CONTROL AT ANY COST?
The postal service is about to ask congress for permission to RATION its services, does anyone believe that Obamacare will not invoke rationing as it is realized that it has increased healthcare costs instead of reducing them?
WAKE UP AMERICA THE NANNY STATE IS NOT SUSTAINABLE!
Posted by: Ed Taylor | March 3, 2010, 9:44 am 9:44 am
3rd time! – Ok, even as an Obama supporter, I’m getting really burned out on the healthcare issue. Either pass the darn bill or drop it once and for all. Honestly, I’m more concerned about getting people to learn proper driving skills, getting them to keep their pants pulled up, and to have sex without making an unplanned for, unwanted baby that eats away at my taxes!
Posted by: Jackson | March 3, 2010, 9:45 am 9:45 am
I love government control…..don’t you?
Posted by: LongT | March 3, 2010, 10:03 am 10:03 am
It quite remarkable to see that the Conservatives have “found Allah” on spending and are screaming bloody murder…considering the facts
1) this bill is paid for, and does not add to the deficit
2), the Republican bill for 2005 Prescription Drugs for Seniors entitlement was far larger than this bill, and was NOT paid for – bet you all did not make a peep about that one – which is ACTUALLY bankrupting us at the moment.
Posted by: indithinker | March 3, 2010, 10:17 am 10:17 am
One piece of good news/good press. WOW! FINALLY! A spending limit Amendment to our Constitution has been introduced. That would be sensible legislation so I’ll bet up front that it doesn’t make it past Pelosi. Any takers? I’ll give you 100 to 1 odds it gets shot down. I’ll give 10/1 odds it never sees a vote while Pelosi decides what does and what doesn’t get a vote.
Posted by: gollywiggle | March 3, 2010, 10:32 am 10:32 am
indythinker; How do you reason that this bill is paid for? I’ll not argue whether it will be paid for by taxpayers. It definitely will. I’m just asking what kind of taxes will be forthcoming to fund the proposed healthcare reform bill. I’m asking who will really pay the tab. Will there be taxes on everything consumers purchase like the taxes on tobacco products that primarily the poor people already have to pay to fund children’s coverage?
Posted by: gollywiggle | March 3, 2010, 10:38 am 10:38 am
Direction of our country (mostly under the radar). Politicians defend tax cuts for the wealthy while states are eliminating or slashing programs that protect children. Record number of children died in Oklahoma due to abuse last year.
Lest we forget, our children are the future leaders of our nation.
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 10:42 am 10:42 am
I am not sure why the “comment section” was not up on the “reconciliation article” but since it wasn’t, I’ll comment here. The President is doing exactly what he should have done last year. As soon it was evident that the Republicans were not going to be “bi-partisan” he should have gotten a vote through reconciliation, right then. In fact, those “trojan horses – Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins – should have been on the spotfrom the start that reconciliation was a viable option. Then the President would have “smoked them out” for the pandering deceivers that they were and not wasted all this time. But the ione thing you supporters of the “Party of NO” do not seem to understand is that this President “learns from his mistakes, is a heck of a competitor and understands that the middle class, unemployed and blue collar workers” really need health care reform. This is what happens to a Party that panders to far right wing and conservative extremists – they lose their way and the lose in the end. I justn wish the “public option” was “still on the table”.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 10:47 am 10:47 am
The GOP rant and rave about Deficit spending now that they are not in office– Yet Both parties are to blame for the resulting high numbers– Both raided Social Security !!!! But, make no mistake — Bush’s blunder– Fighting two unpaid for wars, while giving tax breaks to the upper 3%, was the height of recklessness which emptied the treasury!!! Now the GOP get fiscal Religion — What a Joke !!!!! We lost manufacturing to a global economy — We either cut services or find Revenue—- I say we need a Consumption tax (On the Wholesale level) for all goods Domestic or Imported and replace income tax -(currently only 47% pay anyway) We need a different mindset to replace our loss of the Manufacturing base !!!!
Posted by: brian | March 3, 2010, 10:53 am 10:53 am
“”"”"1) this bill is paid for, and does not add to the deficit
2), the Republican bill for 2005 Prescription Drugs for Seniors entitlement was far larger than this bill, and was NOT paid for – “”"”"
Posted by: indithinker
2 wrongs do make a right? Your first point is useless as the government has a very consistent trend on blowing their estimates (most recent cite: Cash for Clunkers). What happened in the past is done and you can’t change it. So the plan is top waste another trillion just because Bush did it too? Great plan!
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 10:55 am 10:55 am
Embracing some Republican-offered ideas? You are a joke of a reporter to believe that! $50 million for test projects for tort reform when Texas already has a system that works. And the test projects for ObamaCare have failed with Massachusetts the latest example as they have the highest insurance premiums in the country and the cost is skyrocketing more there than anywhere else.
People need to learn the President is a liar and what he says is to distract you from what he does. He says jobs is his #1 priority but devotes all his time to health care AGAIN. If the Stimulus spending bill was properly designed last year unemployment would have remained below 8% but the bill they passed is a joke and hasn’t worked. And enough of all the bogus claims. If you spend enough money there will be some effect but unfortunately too much waste and considering we are heading towards the land of bankruptcy that is unacceptable.
Posted by: ObamasAnIdiot | March 3, 2010, 10:55 am 10:55 am
I wish someone would improve American Idol this year. It stinks!
Posted by: Jackson | March 3, 2010, 10:56 am 10:56 am
Ed Taylor
Fact: the postal service has seen its revenues decrease due to the rise of the Internet and drop in direct mail advertising, hence it needs to cut back on its expenses. The ol’ supply and demand, you know, fewer people using the U.S. mail, revenues down, cut back on services.
The healthcare reform bill will CUT THE DEFICT by billions over the first ten years. BILLIONS CUT. Do you understand the difference between contributing to the deficit and cutting the defict?
“CBO report that Obamacare will raise insurance premiums for the average American” This is a flat out lie. Why can’t Republicans make intelligent arguments without resorting to lies?
Stop watching FOX!
Posted by: Amy in Maine | March 3, 2010, 10:56 am 10:56 am
Amy in Maine Just as it was pointed out in the “bi-partisan” meeting.”"”"”"The CBO analysis found that in the non-group market, average premiums would be “about 10 to 13 percent higher in 2016…than under current law.” The result would be a premium increase of $300 per year for individuals and $2,100 for families.”"”"”
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 11:06 am 11:06 am
Amy in Maine; You’re in denial. It’s impossible to insure more people for less money without placing the emphasis of any new legislation on the costs of delivering healthcare. There’s little money to be saved by decreasing healthcare CEO pay. Healthcare insurors operate on a skinny profit margin. We can only get premiums down appreciably by reducing the dollar amounts of healthcare claims they process. Bottom line is with no tort reform, and no interstate competition, taxes must increase to offset the government spending.
Posted by: gollywiggle | March 3, 2010, 11:08 am 11:08 am
OK, common sense rules here. $1 trillion “deficit neutral” means we the people pay for it (taxes). 30 million more people covered on our tax dollars. It is going to lower (huh?) our premiums (not). Illegals will continue to use our ER’s as clinics. There’s nothing to stop the rising cost of health care in the bill. This is what Rangel called “National Insurance” and Obama calls it “Insurance Reform”. Where’s our health care reform? Where’s our cost controls to stop the rising health care costs? The Common Sense Party!
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 11:13 am 11:13 am
ifrichar…the “other side” has nothing to complain about when it “obstructs”, “lies”, “spreads irrational fear” and just plain ignores the suffering of those without insurance. They had plenty of time and chances to join in and they just never did. And why not? They had no relevant ideas and ABSOLUTELY NO LEADERSHIP.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 11:20 am 11:20 am
Obama throws the ball to Who. Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What. What throws it to I Don’t Know. I Don’t Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don’t know! He’s on third and I don’t give a darn!
Makes you wonder about requiring literacy tests for the American public before they are allowed to vote for circus clowns.
Posted by: Sooner1500 | March 3, 2010, 11:31 am 11:31 am
cndfox…absolutely no leadership…must be talking about pelosi and the dems because your party with all its might cant seem to defeat a minority party with no leader. you forgot an important point THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DONT WANT YOUR PARTYS GARBAGE BILL.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 11:39 am 11:39 am
“Sooner 1500″… I agree with you on the need for “literacy tests” but not how you would think. Is it any wonder after I read your “rational” post as to why I will probably never vote for the Republican Party again. You people are insulated and out of touch as to the nation’s problems. And, worst of all, you DON’T CARE. To me that is the real problem.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 11:41 am 11:41 am
Whenever there is a debate, the side that results to lies is the one on the wrong side of the issue.
It is that simple. No amount of lies against health insurance reform with stop that train.
The truth will set all free.
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 11:44 am 11:44 am
cnd fox..are you talking about obama..he is the one who is out of touch and insulated from what AMERICANS want. he seems to know what europeans and communist china wants but doest have a clue about his own backyard.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 11:47 am 11:47 am
For eight-years the Republican offered no relevant ideas; no leadership with respect to the healthcare problems. Now they’ve become obstructionist – why? Plan and simple – they have a vested interest in the failure of reasonable healthcare – it’s called more money in their pockets.
Posted by: Stlchicago | March 3, 2010, 11:47 am 11:47 am
“”"”"”ifrichar…the “other side” has nothing to complain about when it “obstructs”, “lies”, “spreads irrational fear” and just plain ignores the suffering of those without insurance. “”"”"”
Posted by: CND FOX
1st, you have no substance to your post except whining about the GOP. 2nd, where have all of you “bleeding hearts” been for the past oh, 50 years where we haven’t done anything no matter who was in power? If the GOP “spin” machined worked so dramatically well, how is it they couldn’t put together a campaign to beat the most inexperienced Senator in politics? The GOP is not responsible for a “smear” campaign, the Democrats with their shady deals sealed their fate.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 11:47 am 11:47 am
“”"”Plan and simple – they have a vested interest in the failure of reasonable healthcare – it’s called more money in their pockets.”"”"
Posted by: Stlchicago
Please, with all of your wisdom, show us how. Otherwise, your just another partisan rant and a waste of time.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 11:50 am 11:50 am
only 37% of males approve of obama…63% dont.we have wasted and exhausted so much time on a piece of legislation which is complete fraud.JOBS JOBS JOBS,,,this bill is nothing more than a distraction from waht americans want JOBS
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 11:54 am 11:54 am
All the other industrilaized countries in the world have health care costs that averages 9-10% of GDP. They also have longer average life spans. So the “their health care isn’t any good” argument is simply not valid.
Americans should wake up and realize our system is out of control from a cost standpoint. If we REALLY want to lower our debt and deficits, then the only way is to adopt a health care policy that will accomplish this. And that’s NOT going to be using private insurance.
Sooner or later, our gov’t will have to come to this conclusion. We might as well start lowering costs now.
Quit buying into a bunch of flag waving BS rhetoric. We are America, not the flag, not the gov’t, not the insurance companies – the people. And our policies are what WE make them. It’s not socialist, Stalinist, Marxist, etc… it’s American if we say it is. (And our economy has always been a mixture of economic ideology if you haven’t noticed)
To “provide for the general welfare” is exactly what our government is suppposed to do. It’s in the preamble of the Constitution! And nothing is more general and impacts everyone more than health.
Posted by: Fact Over Fiction | March 3, 2010, 11:56 am 11:56 am
For all of you calling the GOP “obstructionists, let me say this: besides the fact the Democrats had a supermajority for a year, doesn’t this sound great? “Affordable health care for all Americans”. This administration did a horrible (if not worse) job in selling this legislation from the start. Anyone denying that is not living in reality. If this is so good for we the people, there should have been no problem trumping some lame “smear campaign” you all whine about. Instead, the Dems tried to sell themselves out for votes because they couldn’t make a freekin’ decision. Blame who you want, but the facts are, the Dems couldn’t, and still can’t, get together on this issue. So instead of selling out for more votes, let’s change the number of votes needed. Nice, political suicide and Pelosi and Reid are too stupid to even know it.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 11:59 am 11:59 am
This is pure disregard to the American people. These want to be God dems know if this passes they will gqain the poor and illegal votes at us the tax payer expense. Only an idiot believes it will pay for its self.
Posted by: Jim Rod | March 3, 2010, 11:59 am 11:59 am
fact over fiction…cant remember when the majority of people, u.s. citizens that is,wanted 99 weeks of unemployment insurance, free health care, student loans forgiven,and trillions of dollars of new debt? you cite we the people. the peole dont want this bill.a bill which does nothing for a number of years other than taxing the tar out job creators.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 12:01 pm 12:01 pm
ifrichar & catman…I notice some frustation and antagonism emanating from your recent posts. What is occurring right now, should have been done long before now. The ONLY mistake our President made was believing that he could acually achieve a “bi-partisanship” solution. But the narrow, constricted views that both of you have is exactly why I will never vote Republican again in my life. We are in the 21st century with 300 million people of which 40 million or so do NOT have health insurance. There is NOTHING right about that!
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm
“”"”"”provide for the general welfare” is exactly what our government is suppposed to do. It’s in the preamble of the Constitution! And nothing is more general and impacts everyone more than health.”"”"”
Posted by: Fact Over Fiction
Actually it states, “Promote the general welfare” which means ideas like advertising quitting smoking, eating right, getting check up, etc. “Provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and…”. Promoting something is exactly that, not actually paying for it and providing it, I agree we need to lower actual health care costs throughout the industry, not just insurance. How about limiting profit margins? True reform will upset lawyers, insurance, pharmaceuticals, doctors, illegal immigrants, etc. It’s one of those “unpopular” decisions Obama said has to be made, but then, he doesn’t make it.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm
The US is ranked #37 for health care– Between Costa Rica and Cuba, by the World Health Organization– However we currently pay 16% GDP for that privilege !!!! Double what most countries pay for Full Universal Comprehensive coverage!!! That’s the facts !!!! So lets do nothing !!!!
Posted by: brian | March 3, 2010, 12:04 pm 12:04 pm
“”"”We are in the 21st century with 300 million people of which 40 million or so do NOT have health insurance. There is NOTHING right about that!”"”"
Posted by: CND FOX
I am not frustrated, nor am I GOP. I simply deal in facts and agree all should have “coverage” IF they desire to do so. Without true health care cost control measures in place, you have insurance reform, not health care reform.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:06 pm 12:06 pm
“”"”"Double what most countries pay for Full Universal Comprehensive coverage!!! That’s the facts !!!! So lets do nothing !!!!”"”"”
Posted by: brian
No, we pay double for health care costs not insurance coverage. Either way, the only way to bring down premiums is to bring down health care costs. Why can you buy Tylenol in the store for 50 cents a pill and it is $20 in the hospital? How do generics sell for up to 75% less than name brand? Why is it over $10000 a day to stay in the hospital? The cost of care is the major issue here. Lower that and you lower insurance premiums. (FACT)
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:10 pm 12:10 pm
Whenever there is a debate, the side that results to lies is the one on the wrong side of the issue.
It is that simple. No amount of lies against health insurance reform with stop that train.
The truth will set all free.
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 12:11 pm 12:11 pm
New Wave —– Instead of whining, point out the lies! Sack up!!!!
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:16 pm 12:16 pm
ifrichar…then maybe I missed something. Why did you not post and advocate the “public option” then? Certainly you do not believe the “free market and competition between ‘colluders’” would accomplish the lowering of costs?
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm
Ifrichar and catman are quick on correcting others and stating what they see as the facts. But not once do they address the Elephant in the room (oops, I mean the country); the United States pays over 16% GDP toward poorly managed healthcare. But I’m sure Ifrichar has all the answers to that one too.
Posted by: Stlchicago | March 3, 2010, 12:18 pm 12:18 pm
It’s good to see the president take charge of this situation since the gridlock in the senate does not seem to be solvable. This is the start of true healthcare reform. Amendments will be made in the coming years that will eventually provide affordable coverage for all. The beauty of it all is that the Republican party will be bi-standers to real positive change.
Posted by: Peoples_Pres | March 3, 2010, 12:24 pm 12:24 pm
cnd fox…40 million dont have insurance. how manmy illegals? how young people like my 4 gollege educated kids choose not to have insurance because obamas gonna pay for it? how many of those 40 million didnt go to social services to get assistance.the real number is about 10 million people who should given welfare checks to buy insurance because thats what it is. i spend a month a year in canada working as i have for 10 plus years. canadians envy our system. the desire of the adminstation for european socialim will end in november. in the mean time create a job please.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 12:30 pm 12:30 pm
LIES against health care reform:
Lie 1 – There will be Death Panels
Lie 2 – Healthcare reform is government takeover
Lie 3 – Reconciliation process have never be used for healthcare-related bills.
Lie 4 – Healthcare reform will increase premiums
Lie 5 – Healthcare reform will kill Medicare
Lie 6 – Healthcare reform will stop mamograms
These and more are what the naysayers are claiming. All lies.
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 12:31 pm 12:31 pm
Stlchicago — And your posts are nothing but whining. Can you not read? I am for health care INDUSTRY cost controls which one idea is to “regulate profit margins”. This encompasses insurance, med schools, equipment and procedures, lawyers and tort reform, immigration reform, pharmaceuticals and anything else that has to do with a new system. Why have so many different systems to pay for essentially the same thing…health care costs? The government regulates anthing from food to cars, well, health care might as well be regulated. Set up an insurance program to cover those who cannot afford but wish to be covered. The public option would swell this program well above the original estimate. Instead of criticizing, let’s hear your ideas!
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:32 pm 12:32 pm
New Wave — You forgot to mention WHO said this? Palin? Not in office. Who else said this?
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:34 pm 12:34 pm
shicago…control fraud and waste and get jobs back and we can afford health care. the elephant in the room is covering 20 million illegal alliens.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 12:35 pm 12:35 pm
new wave…trying to put 5 pounds of dung in a 2 pound bag equals rationinhg of care which equals death panels.pretty simple logic. there are not enogh doctors as it is. the emergancy rooms in california are full of people trying to get oxycotin. get real.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 12:39 pm 12:39 pm
“”"”Certainly you do not believe the “free market and competition between ‘colluders’” would accomplish the lowering of costs? “”"”"
Posted by: CND FOX
Government regulations would certainly limit any chance of price gouging. The public option would be OK if they had a good estimate. If the government somehow lowers insurance say 25%, I believe more than 10 million people would try and jump on the bandwagon. The estimate is flawed and the price tag will be much higher. As they say, medicare and medicade are going to bankrupt us, so we are going to turn to the same people who mismanaged those programs to save us? With such a long history of trends the government has of mismanagement, I am not sure if this is the way to go. I am certain of one thing, this country needs to control health care costs, not just insurance premiums, do you disagree with that statement?
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 12:45 pm 12:45 pm
The backlash against efforts to sustain fiscal responsibility is a telling sign that our nation has become addicted to entitlements and has a ravenous appetite for more. The sad thing is that when the government cannot sustain the demand the people will not take responsibility for being sucklings of the government. They will blame the politicians for not being able to magically fund their appetites.
I understand that people need a bridge between jobs and through hard times. That bridge used to be family and the community. Family values have been eroded by groups that demand an exception to them and the sense of community has diminished since the focal points of a community have been largely ridiculed by groups that demand exceptions to the community values. Community centers like churches and clubs have brought some of tarnish onto themselves through their own hypocrisy.
Exceptions to family and community values have largely been achieved by appealing to courts and introducing legislation that assures impunity to trump family and community civility.
Our nation has been on a course that is stripping family and communities of their stewardship and promotes a culture of serfs beholding to a government that lacks civility.
Sadly our nation’s freedom and entrepreneurial spirit is being deliberately strangled through efforts to address the demands for entitlements, the supplementing of companies and government agencies being pilfered. I feel a malaise coming on.
Posted by: TX-MBell | March 3, 2010, 12:49 pm 12:49 pm
Come on guys’ If this bill passes and they start collecting a tax that will not be spent for 2 to 5 years. A tax that will be put into a slush type fund account do you think we are that stupid to not know that they and I mean they the dems mostly will not dip into it like they do social security to pay for pork projects then when its about empty turn around and blame us the tax payer for it being broke or almost out of money? Just think if they would set a path or plan to pay back all the IOUs they have stole from social security.
Posted by: Jim Rod | March 3, 2010, 12:51 pm 12:51 pm
Senator Byrd, a Democrat who wrote the reconciliation rule, says it should not be used in situations like this.
Democrats will go ahead and misuse the rule anyway.
Posted by: Joe White | March 3, 2010, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
indithinker,
Just how is this bill paid for? Please explain this to me. We are currently running a Trillion and a half dollar deficit this year…so tell me again how this is paid for? Is this how you run your household? Your bank lets you write hot checks week after week? Amazing
Posted by: Mac | March 3, 2010, 12:57 pm 12:57 pm
Personally, I am glad that Republicans have finally gone back to their fiscal responsible ways like they used to be. It’s about time somebody does. We are soon going to run out of rich people to tax to pay for all these handouts.
Posted by: Mac | March 3, 2010, 12:59 pm 12:59 pm
I can’t wait for it to pass. Then I can quit my job and let Daddy Obama and Momma Pelosi ppovide for me. I won’t have to be responsible for anything.
Posted by: Mac | March 3, 2010, 1:01 pm 1:01 pm
ifrichar…controlling the “costs”…you bet I agree. That is why I am for the public option. When you have that type of “pool” and giving the government the ability to negotiate pricing. You do not think that that won’t bring costs down? And to “catman”… I don’t who you are talking to in Canada about our system. I hve 35 years of expeience in “Canadian relationships” and NEVER ONCE have I heard that they wish they had our system. Yeah, you pay higher taxes BUT you do not have to worry about losing your job AND your insurance at the same time and you do NOT have to worry about how you will pay for insurance when you retire. Take a good look at their society, catman, you will NOT see the huge gap between the “rich and the poor” that you see in this country.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 1:02 pm 1:02 pm
For those who like Government control, please move to Cuba or Venezuela.
Thanks in advance.
Posted by: Mac | March 3, 2010, 1:06 pm 1:06 pm
“”"”"You do not think that that won’t bring costs down? “”"”"”
Posted by: CND FOX
No and here’s why. The cost of health care will rise, which means insurance premiums will rise. The current 4% profit margin of the insurance industry will dwindle leaving them with 2 choices, raise rates or go out of business. Those costs leave the government with 2 choices, raise rates or subsidize the program even more resulting in 2 things. 1st, the estimate will be blown and 2nd, people and employers will flock in much bigger numbers than Obama or the CBO estimated. With cost controls throughout the industry, that won’t happen. Why is one MRI $2000 and another somewhere else is $1000? Those are the cost issues we need to bring under control. From building the MRI equipment to using it on a patient, we need to control costs. From med school to being full up doctor, we need controls and incentives. Texas tort reform didn’t save them money, but 270 more doctors joined the force. Democrats, CBO and Obama admit tort reform will save $5 billion per year, yet they do not add it. Maybe $5B AND more doctors, hmm, a win/win.
Posted by: lfrichar | March 3, 2010, 1:11 pm 1:11 pm
We are hardly insulated to the nation’s problems. The biggest problems now are overspending and job loss. The health care bill is the wrong bill at the wrong time. It will not pay for itsself! They are counting ten years of tax revenue but the bill will not implement for four years. So only 6 years of outgo to 10 years of income. If I could run my business and not pay any bills for 4 years, woo hoo! The best guess right now is the bill will be more than double the estimated 1 Trillion. And that’s a low guess if history is any indication as to how government programs work. You can’t add 30 million people, increase coverage, not have co-pays, (= more folks seeking care for everything), cover illegal aliens, add a whole new layer of government bureaucracy and expect cost to decrease. It’s a huge rose colored glasses pipe dream. Where is the objective thinking here?
Posted by: Gary | March 3, 2010, 1:18 pm 1:18 pm
We can’t have it both ways. If Americans want cheap products and cheap services, then stop whining when jobs get outsourced to cheaper labor markets and people hire illegal immigrants to work at cut throat wages.
Until people have enough integrity to boycott companies that farm out work to cheaper places, and they themselves are willing to pay a bit more for goods and services instead of hiring illegal immigrants, then this issue will never go away.
To whine and complain about this is foolish. You made your bed, now sleep in it!
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 1:19 pm 1:19 pm
cnd fox…touche’…their is not much difference between rich and poor in canada,…i agree.socialism does that and peole lose their desire to excel.a lady i work with in canada had to come to get her gall bladder removed because she couldnt wait 18 months under the govt plan. what medical innovation has canada created since they adopted obama care? no financial incentive to do so.
Posted by: catman | March 3, 2010, 1:45 pm 1:45 pm
Want more evidence of how our current healthcare system is dragging our economy back?
A number of years back, the midwest lost out bidding on a Honda plant that was awarded to Ontario. Canadian health care was a major attraction. The following quote was found in a quick Google search. “This investment is great news for families and businesses in Alliston,” says Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty. “Honda knows that Ontario’s workforce is among the most productive in the world and our health-care system helps give investors the stable business costs they’re looking for.” Here is the full article;
Reforming healthcare is a necessity for our economic growth.
Posted by: New Wave | March 3, 2010, 2:01 pm 2:01 pm
No catman…you can get away withyour 1:45 post with those that have never been to Canada and who have no relationships there, but not me. I only said the “gaps” between rich and poor meaning the “average, middle class individual” in Canada is much better off than here in America. The “rich” always find a way to be wealthier than the rest of us, no matter what country you live in. You just do not have the disparity of “filthy, obscene rich” versus “extremely poor and downtrodden” that exists in America.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 2:26 pm 2:26 pm
CND FOX;New Wave, etc…. Of course there are filthy rich people who succeeded and extremely poor and downtrodden people who failed in America. We have illegal aliens from third world countries living among us. 7000 students are dropping out of school daily in America. Has it ever occurred to you that not all people are motivated to succeed in life or become wealthy? Has it occurred to you that the Irish, German, Italian, Polish immigrants and others came to America seeking refuge and opportunity. Then with no money, no ability to speak English and without government subsidy carved out a better future for themselves and their families. They complied with immigration laws in spite of their desperation. My point is the opportunity to get what you want for yourself and your family is available to every American. Even natural born citizens have the opportunity to succeed. I wish you and all the rest of the people who call out for social justice, who have been brainwashed by politicians to think you have entitlements would just stop whining. You are American but at the same time want America to be like other countries while those who live in other countries want what we Americans have. What’s wrong with you?
Posted by: gollywiggle | March 3, 2010, 8:44 pm 8:44 pm
gollywiggle…Oh come on …”My point is the opprotunity to get what you wantfor yourself and your family is available to every American.” You make this statement and have the “audacity to say that I am brainwashed”?I’ll bet you still believe in the “tooth fairy, Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too”, don’t you? My views come from my experiences in life, gollywiggle, NOT from any propagandist. The real problem here is that people in “constricted communities and environments” have been fed this crap by people just like them for so long in their isolated little worlds – they believe it unconditionally. That would be you…not me.
Posted by: CND FOX | March 3, 2010, 9:54 pm 9:54 pm