Obama: No “Straight Answer” from Health Insurance CEOs, Warns of More Premium Hikes to Come Without Up or Down Vote

Its time to stop fighting the health insurance companies, and start ignoring them. They do not provide any socially useful service, and are simply sucking productivity out of our system, not to mention sucking life out of our people. We can insure ourselves, like every other developed country does.

37% of those opposing the Senate health care bill do so because they dont think it goes far enough to reform health care. There is a 66% majority favoring health care reform. – McClatchy/Ipsos

I’ve worked for Anthem in the past know just how devious they and other insurance companies can be.
I’ve also seen just how good President Obama is at manipulating people’s opinions.
Put the insurance companies and President Obama together and I am compelled to wonder: Are the insurance companies against the President OR are we seeing ‘theatre’?
Think about it. This country is as close as we have ever been to passing legislation to reform health insurance practices…the closest the liberals have ever been to government-run health insurance for all…the closest the liberals have ever been to single-payer health insurance.
So why are the health insurance companies acting like @$$s at this time? My devious mind suspects they are doing it on purpose to manipulate people into demanding passage of the Senate bill, which calls for everyone to be insured WITHOUT a public option.
And I believe our very intelligent President is in on the plan.

Yes hurry.
Start taxing everyone now.
Obama is in need of spending money.
Benefits start in 2014.
It’s no wonder small businesses are afraid to hire.

“They will continue to drop people’s coverage when they need it. They will continue to refuse coverage based on pre-existing conditions. These practices will continue.”
You don’t believe this? Think again, because he is right. After your first heart attack, the second one is on you, because you have a pr-existing condition. After they find a cancerous polyp during your colonoscopy, you are now on record as having a pre existing condition.
The insurance companies are making up the rules as they go. Even if you have insurance you will eventually fall into the cracks of pre-existing condition.
Don’t think it can happen, ask around.

Well, of course the GOP wants to start over. They are shills for the rich insurance companies and their millionaire CEOs. But that doesn’t change the facts. Health insurance premiums have gone up 17%-39% or more this year. Millions are uninsured, and millions more will soon be. Many have lost their jobs because employers didn’t want to pay health insurance, especially of those people had become critically ill. Present insurance polices have skyrocketing premiums, high deductibles and low caps on coverage. And the present policy of health insurance companies is to cut more and more people out of coverage to add even more to their billions of dollars in profits.
Health care reform is badly needed. Don’t put it off. Pass health care reform now.

And I believe our very intelligent President is in on the plan.
Posted by: malcat | Mar 6, 2010 9:04:05 AM
Well, you certainly could write screenplays or suspense novels.
But as you say, this country is as close as we have ever been to passing legislation to reform health insurance practices…full stop. Then add that the progressives in Congress, and President Obama are committed to improving the system further as time wears on. And then you understand what’s up with the insurance companies. One of my customers worked in the insurance and managed care industries for years and has all kinds of stories about the lobbying arm of the industry in the 90s.
I agree with you that the insurance industry has been devious.

I’ve also seen just how good President Obama is at manipulating people’s opinions.
Put the insurance companies and President Obama together and I am compelled to wonder: Are the insurance companies against the President OR are we seeing ‘theatre’?
Posted by: malcat | Mar 6, 2010 9:04:05 AM
______________________________________
I’ve thought about that as well, malcat. And I also don’t think alot of people believe that they will see much ‘change’ in insurance just because the government is poking their nose in it.
I just read a very interesting article on Politics Daily (on AOL) that stated 36 states are planning ‘pre-emptive strikes’ against the federal healthcare plan. They are going to make sure everything is in order in THEIR state so the folks will NOT be FORCED to buy healthcare insurance. 36 States?!? Sounds like a majority to me.

There are currently three types of people out there now: those with good insurance, those with catastrophic insurance and those with no insurance. If you currently have good insurance, you are lucky but it won’t last. The odds are that your employer will either stop providing the level you have or that you will lose the benefit completely. I see this every day now. And your doctor no longer gets a choice of the best medicine to prescribe you – that’s dictated by the insurance company. The same is happening to your treatment plan.
The health plan passed by the Senate stinks, but it is better than the status quo. Your insurance company is cheating you and Congress has got to start somewhere. My hope is that Republicans in Congress will create bills to fix some of the more glaring problems with the Senate bill down the road. My guess is that honest Democrats will step up and support those bills and reforms. It’s too late to start over on health care reform (this has been going on since the Clintons screwed things up in the 90′s). The system is so broken that if it isn’t fixed now then the only option five years from now will be a government takeover.

The insurance hike still would be cheaper than the proposed taxes it would take to fund this bill. This bill is similar to the one that Tenn and Mass currently have in place. With that in mind, ask yourself why isnt Obama talking about how great this type of bill is for these states? Posted by: Stanley********************
Massachusetts is NOT running on a insurance hike.
The crazy insurance plan put together by Romney is
a flop. There are people out there who are working
without insurance. There are businesses out there hiring employees under the table and lying about having them employed. That’s a fact!

If you wreck your car your insurance goes up. If you have a preexisiting medical condition, it goes up. Let people are fine with one, and throwing a fit over the other.
It’s “insurance”, it’s meant for catastrophic events that might happen… Not events that already have happened. What are people not getting here?

Ok here it goes big insurers like anthem, doesnt care if the goverment will cover all the high risk people, what the goverment needs to do is cover as many low risk at at cheaper price to cut deep into their pockets until they bleed so badly, they cant take it any more. Then we will try to get pre-approval to ease the bleeding. We could even charge them a premium for taking low risk people.

“He forgot to mention that the CBO has stated that insurance premiums will go up under his plan as well.”
——————
What a lovely way to distort the facts.
Apparently, you didn’t read, or understand, exactly what the CBO wrote. And, maybe you missed all the fact-checking in the media after the healthcare forum… Or maybe you saw it all and are endorsing the RNC’s fear-based approach to trying to scare up votes.
Here are the facts:
The CBO stated that any premium increase would be because people would finally be able to afford COMPREHENSIVE insurance, and not have to rely solely on CATASTROPHIC insurance. In other words, they could afford to get more secure (i.e., better coverage) insurance, so they would pay a little more to do that.
Thus, it’s, as many people have noted, an “apples to oranges” comparison — two completely different types of insurance: catastrophic versus comprehensive.
But, here’s the kicker: An “apples to apples” comparison of insurance premiums finds that most (~85%) premiums will actually go down if the healthcare bill is passed.
And even to top that, average premiums for everyone would actually be REDUCED by 7-13%.
Those are facts that shouldn’t be left out of the discussion.

If you wreck your car your insurance goes up. If you have a preexisiting medical condition, it goes up. Let people are fine with one, and throwing a fit over the other. It’s “insurance”, it’s meant for catastrophic events that might happen… Not events that already have happened. What are people not getting here? Posted by:Jafo*******************
What world do you live on? Insurance is not only for
catastrophic, but preventive. Does your auto insurance pay for oil and filter changes? Your comparison analogy has absolutely no merit.
Let me know the car insurance you have, I’d
love to see it’s coverage on internal combustion.LOL

Perhaps it is time for the President to start giving some ‘STRAIGHT ANSWERS’ on the out year deficits he is piling up!!
Never again should we elect a novice to steer a ship in rough seas! He has made one big blunder after another, and sadly, does not even comprehend what he has done!
We need to start over on health care. Obamacare has turned into a dogs’ breakfast — two weeks old!!

Fifty million Americans cannot even obtain health insurance, and yet the conservatives kooks could care less. It’s either that these uninsured folks cannot afford the coverage or they have a pre-existing condition and cannot even find coverage. The insurance execs are greedy and have no interest in anything other than lining their own pockets. We are at the tipping point right now, and I am very concerned that we may have already passed that point. We FINALLY have a president who is trying to help the American people, but the religiously radical conservatives (supposedly “good Christians”) could care less about the underprivileged and underserved in our nation.

JAB — Insurance premiums go up because medical costs go up — something that Obama’s bill doesnt fix!!! —- Stop with the “one-liners” of deceit!! — Insurance companies made 3.3% profit on average for 208, dismal, dismal, companies cannot operate on 3.3%! — Ask Obama what measures he would implement to curb rising costs, you get a blank stare, because it’s not part of his agenda!!

President Obama leaned heavily toward the single payer option when he ran for President, one of the main reasons I voted for him, yet now this so-called “Health Care Reform” has become just another band-aid that will have to be repaired by some future president. We MUST get health care responsibility off the backs of employers and into the hands of the Government. Why should a US employer have to compete in a global market with such a disadvantage? SINGLE PAYER GOVERNMENT MANAGED HEALTHCARE and a HUGE cut in military spending are what this nation needs.

The guy who used to be in charge of P.R. for Cigna (the insurance company), Wendell Potter, was on Bill Moyers’ Journal this week. He said the bill isn’t perfect but he would vote for it if he was in Congress.
On the other hand, he said, if he was still the P.R. man for Cigna, he’d be funneling money (out of the premiums we pay) to lobbyists and into Congressional pockets and into the business associations willing to put up ads against reform. He’d said push for them to use the false wording that sounds good to the public:
1. “government takeover” – in actuality, it’s a major shift away from the fact that government already runs MOST of American health insurance (Medicare, Medicaid, Military, many Federal workers, etc.) and a windfall in extra policies for PRIVATE insurers. Private insurers, though, would have to stop denying so many policies and claims that they may not see extra profits.
2. “bipartisan bill” – in actuality, there’s NO chance of a bipartisan health reform of any major consequence. Potter asked if we want people to keep suffering under 13-39% annual premium increases until nearly EVERYONE is un or underinsured.
He said another reason for insurance industry lobbying against it is the limitation against huge deductibles. He said that there’s already a policy available in Ohio with a $20,000 deductible. A woman was shown testifying to congress about her $9500 Wellpoint deductible policy for which she paid over $1000 per month for two people.
I wish all of Congress was forced to watch that episode of Bill Moyer’s Journal. Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) once said to me that after some “60 Minutes” episodes run, a flurry of bills pop up in Congress by suddenly enlightened legislators, showing that the Senate and House members are much more ignorant about what goes on outside the Washington Beltway than most people realize.

All I can say is thank goodness we have enough money to continuously bomb and occupy Muslim countries, build a new $1 billion embassy in Baghdad and another in London, give Blankfein and the rest of the banksters bailouts and bonuses. Forget providing Americans health coverage. Rather suture up some Islamic dude that we just maimed. Ya baby! Besides Americans eat garbage compliments of Monsanto, etc. Support Ron Paul in 2012 if you want anything to change folks. Peace.

It seems to me President Obama continues to be less than sincere. Some of the main reasons health insurance premiums increase are the underlying costs of health care and the ever increasing mandates imposed by governments on the things insurance companies must cover. Defensive medicine has been estimated to raise costs by 25% as physicians and hospitals order unneeded tests simply to protect themselves from a preditory legal environment. None of these problems will be fixed by either of the bills passed by Congress. That hasn’t stopped Obama from implying that they will. Joe Wilson was right; Obama Lies. Once we all accept that simple truth, the easier it will be not to fall for his phony baloney rhetoric.

Berkeley Professor Jacob Hacker created the basic healthcare reform design that both houses of congress are using to develop their proposal of healthcare reform. In a presentation to the TIDES organization, referring to his base reform design, he JOKED about how his plan would EVOLVE INTO SINGLE PAYER!!!— About single-payer, he said “We’ll move away from reliance on employer-based health insurance, as we should, but WE’LL DO IT IN A WAY that we’re not going to FRIGHTEN people into thinking that they are going to lose their private insurance!” — Search on YOUTUBE for “Jacob Hacker Trojan Horse”.

Ferrari5858 | Mar 6, 2010 10:51:24 AM: How do YOU explain that the US spends on average TWICE as much per person in healthcare costs than ALL OTHER developed nation, yet is the ONLY ONE that does not cover everyone?

There is not a single one of you that would not be for this proposed plan if you were one of the millions that are on pure catastrophic insurance or without insurance altogether. The corporations have no concern over your welfare and will squeeze every possible penny out of your life to maximize the stockholders investments whom likewise do not know or care about your needs. Those of you with your present plans will find that if this plan fails your coverage and services will deteriate for profits and your premiums will continue to become a higher percentage of your income day-by-day. Capitalism used to be a good thing for America but today’s corporations with an attitude that stockholders are more important than customers or employees are giving capitalism a truly bad name. This is all about greed and a lack of social responsibility for the greater good. Scream all you want about be self-determined and responsible for one’s self but the moment your self-determination gets in the way of corporate profits, see how far you can get. Remember a government by the people and for the people is supposed to be responsible for all of our needs as a society unless it has been bought out and controlled by these corporatists whom, again, remember take care of themselves before they will ever take care of you all for that bottom dollar. There has to be real balance with checks and balances on both sides. Both corporations and the government need to balance each other without one or the other having too much power or costing too much. Presently, corporations own everything, including your government, and will do anything to maintain and control you via their corporate owned government. The government does not belong to you anymore, it belongs to corporations which know how to maximize the stockholder investments at the peoples expenses. For those of you that want to try to protect those stockholders, which may be you, I ask, how much control do you have about what your stock investments do and how few people really do control what YOUR stock does? Few of us stockholders have a say about what and where our investments go and how they are used. Stock funds are controlled mostly by large corporations or banks. Tell us when was the last time you had an affect on what those stock did for you or where they went to. Do not be fools to be fooled by even greater fools. Present day corporations are giving real capitalism and real government a bad name.

I want the government option, and I no longer truast captialism or the free market to protect the people from greed, wallstreet and the corproations.
I WANT A GOVERNMENT OPTION NOW !!!!!

Excuse me? Barry can’t get a straight answer from insurance company CEOs…so he want to force all of us to buy insurance from them?
Sometimes I wonder if he has any idea how stupid he sounds.

Mike —- You said “all the different companies charge EXACALLY the same amount of money for the same coverage.” —- First, that is not true (what do you think, they all set rates together, lol) —- Second… Companies increase rates based on their “experience”, if claims are higher than expected, and costs of claims (cost of an MRI, for example)rises each year, premiums must go up to cover (Duh – this is NOT rocket science… basic math)!! — If the cost of steel goes up, your hammer will cost more, duh! —— Where do you think the premium dollars are going if insurance companies were making 6% profit 10 yrs ago, but are making 3.3% profits in 2008, yet premiums have gone up 300-400% — Where is that money going??? — Who controls “medical costs”??? — Not Obama!

but to paint all “evil insurance” Democrats are famous for demonizing “big whatever” — depending upon their legislative AGENDA!!! — Painting all companies with the same “evil” brush is infantile and uninformed!! — Remember two years ago the administration was talking about “EVIL BIG OIL”!!!! — When the healthcare reform is settled, there will be another “EVIL” industry to demonize!!!! —- Children will believe anything!!!!

Mike — You said “each (health insurance) company on average 4.9 BILLION dollars profit” for 2009!! — On what revenue? — What is the % of profit? — Does it beat the national average for corporations? — What was the % of increase in COSTS from health care PROVIDERS? — You are smart enough to figure out that the insurance companies need to cover their CLAIMS first —- and health care providers costs are increasing at 10 times inflation!!!! — Why doesn’t theObama bill attack the inceases in COSTS??
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 11:05:13 AM
The fact is I lost my coverage because it went up over 120 percent in one year and I dont go to the doctor all all unless I break a leg or something. there profits went up to 4.9 BILLION up from 530 Million on average this year. so it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out where there over 400 percent profit increase came from. It came from jacking up peoples premiums over 300 percent in some cases. I was a lucky person just going up 120 percent cause im healthly but what about the sick people that cant change companies because if they do they lose there coverage perminatly because of the pre-exsisting clause. The insurence companies are ina sence holding them hostage they pay the increase or the lose coverage forever. Now tell me we dont need to fix this problem. Tell me that 1 billion a day to help the Iraqie people is better spent then spending that money on the american people so they can have health care? Oh and by the way you want to know whats really sick. We speant about 130 BILLION dollars of your tax money to set up a single payer health care system for the Iraqie people with tax payer money. Something we arent even willing to do for our own people

It’s funny how some people are defending the insurance companies, they claim insurance costs go up because of medical costs? That’s the irony….If insurance was not going up, why would medical cost go up? If insurance are just going to make Americans pay outrageous amounts, medical manufacturers would want a piece of the pie thus they also jack up prices but enough of that…..so basically some of you are saying paying insurance CEO’s millions of dollars/yr and denying Americans coverage after years of meeting their insurance payment is capitalism? If that is what it is, socialism sound better to me.

Comparing our country’s healthcare to other country’s is like comparing apples and oranges. First they don’t cover everything that we have because they could never afford it. Second they have benefitted from our advances, if they had to come up with their own advanced treatments and care it would have never been. And third it is the govt. that is directly responsible for our mess of an insurance/healthcare system, by interfering in the market in WWII, forcing employer based coverage. Second by their mandates and regulations, third by setting the price through the back door through entitlements (yes, as the largest buyer of healthcare the govt. already sets the prices). And fourth through inflation, always caused by the govt.

I support the president 100%. I want this issue to get done ASAP!!!!

I guess insurance companies didn’t donate enough like Goldman Sachs did?

Mike —- You said “all the different companies charge EXACALLY the same amount of money for the same coverage.” —- First, that is not true (what do you think, they all set rates together, lol)
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition
YES THATS EXACALLY WHAT THEY DO!! Are you just missing this or do you not understand what federal anti-trust protection is and what it allows companies to do?? Second part tell me how the cost of doing an MRI increased that much in one year? Its a machine you turn it on it takes a picture. Taking a picture with my digital camera didnt cost me any more this year then it did last year. Costs are going up becuase hospitals charge more to insured people to make up for the loses they take treating uninsured people. And why are there so many uninsured people? Because insurence companies rasie peoples rates that are sick 300 to 400 percent they cant afford it lose there coverage and cant get coverage from another company cause of pre-existing clause. And they cant even lie about it because of FEDERAL ANTI-TRUST PROTECTION. The companies can share information ON YOU to eachother to find out who cost them the most money cause there sick and deny them any coverage at all.

Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 11:20:46 AM
Yes, they always fail to mention that the govt. makes more money off of oil than the oil companies themselves and because they demand a bigger and bigger piece of the pie we pay more. Funny how they conveniently forget that unpleasant little truth whenever they hold hearings.

Paul Ryan is one smart guy. The GOP would be wise to promote him but they won’t as they are just as progressive as the progressives. RINO’s in Republican clothing.

TheLoyalOpposition brings up some good points however the problem with his logic is that this is not the Reagan years anymore unfortunatly. Corperations no longer care anything about the United States or the american people. They care about profits and how they can get more at any cost even selling out the country and its people. Its not 84 anymore long gone are the days when people did the right thing and cared about the good of the country and its people. Today is an age of the ME generation.

I notice Obama says nothing about Goldman Sachs….wonder why? Hummm…

The medical industry in the USA is (A)far too dominated by private companies who are driven by profits and (B) insufficiently regulated.
In most industries, COMPETITION PREVAILS which helps keep costs down however, the US health system is different in this respect and effective competition does not exist, largely as it is impractical for it to exist. For example, how many hospitals are built within a mile of each other and compete for same customers ? how many insurance companies operate in the same states without the benefit of antitrust immunity (i.e., without being able to sit round a table and fix prices ?), how many indiviuals / companies have the opportunity to obtain medical coverage outside the current healthcare system and at a lower cost ?
In industries where this type of dynamic exists, there are usually controls / regulations to ensure that the companies involved don’t abuse their positions bad sadly, no effective controls are currently in place today.
I would forget about all the scare mongering that is going on currently as the solution is really very simple.
The choice is either to have proper regulation with sustantial fines and lengthy prison sentences for those who engage in such practices (i.e., the same Regulatory environment that exists in most other industries worldwide) or a decent healthcare alternative which can/will only be provided through Government, as only they would have the buying power and options to sustantailly reduce costs for the consumer.
And for those that don’t think regulation is needed, just think what happened in the oil futures market not so long ago, when speculators helped push gas prices towards the $5/gallon range ! Unfortunately, this latter issue still remains unresolved today !

Mike —- If “federal anti-trust protection” is your beef, try amending the laws that affect this… why change the structure of our country for the 6-10% of people who will really be affected?? — How about “less drastic” measures that will actually affect THOSE people, not the ones who like the insurance they have! —- You don’t perform a lobotomy to fix and earache!!!

Insurance companies like higher medical costs because they make a percentage of the cost as profit. More cost = more profit. People have a right to be wary of government, but the alternative that we are stuck with now – rule by corporation – is far worse. Corporations need not answer to the people while they pump billions into campaigns to get the people they choose elected to government office. And, of course, our elected officials from the President on down must be very careful not to upset the sources of their money – the corporations who back them. America today is “Government of the money, by the money and for the money”.

Posted by: Valerie | Mar 6, 2010 11:39:17 AM Corporations do need to be regulated but this country was built on incentive. College is free in Italy but half don’t go, why? Because the plumber makes the same as the doctor, why spend that amount of time in school when you will never get paid for the time and dedication it took? They are so disincentivized to life that they don’t even have kids anymore. Everyone is the same, there is no incentive to do anything. And besides do you think the govt. has unlimited funds? They don’t so someone is going to have to choose what gets paid for and what doesn’t. At least if the marketplace were really free a people can force the most value for the least amount of money. The power to do that would and is completely lost for those who accept entitlments. If you could compare big screen tv’s or any product to healthcare you would realize that the free market system always lowers price and raises quality to the point where nearly everyone can afford it. And for those that truly can’t, yes the govt. is partly the answer but communities and charities should be the first line of defense as caring for your neighbor begins with you, not the govt.

Ryan | Mar 6, 2010 11:47:25 AM: Do you support that “bigwigs” should be able to screw you because they are bigwigs? Or, do think it might be better to put some controls in place that protects the average consumer, such a you and me. If you think it is OK for bigwigs to do as they wish, I would love to have you as my “slave” in my shop. My profits my skyrocket and than I could buy that vacation home in Vale or that Ferrari. Get to work, slave, and do not complain if you get sick.

Mike — -You like big government? — Hows that Post Office doing? (Cut service, raise rates); Social Security? (soon to be bankrupt); Medicare? (soon to be bankrupt); Medicaid? (soon to be bankrupt)—– Gosh, lets let government do everything for us so we can all go bankrupt together!!!

Does he think we are all morons?
The Insurance companies charge premiums to cover costs.
The costs come from Doctors and Hospitals, who are trying to stay afloat while covering hundreds of millions of dollars worth of unreimbursed care for illegal aliens.
How many hospitals have been forced to close their doors, leaving everyone with no care?
Don;t talk to me about insurance company CEOs, talk to me about illegal aliens getting care that we are all paying for through our premiums.
Many hospitals were designed to run carrying a third of patients as charity cases, and two-thirds being paying patients. That has flipped, so that two-thirds are charity cases (majority illegal), and the remaining one third being paying patients. Naturally, the people who do pay will pay more.
We simply cannot provide health care for every person who manages to cross our border without getting caught.

Mike —- If “federal anti-trust protection” is your beef, try amending the laws that affect this… why change the structure of our country for the 6-10% of people who will really be affected?? — How about “less drastic” measures that will actually affect THOSE people, not the ones who like the insurance they have! —- You don’t perform a lobotomy to fix and earache!!!
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 11:48:00 AM
Your right but it would seem that EVERYONE in government ALL the republicans most of the democrats and EVERY health insurence company are fight tooth and nail to keep the protections in place. You got to start somewhere Im not saying I am for the current bill. I have NEVER ONCE said that in a post. Im saying theres a problem and it needs to be fixed. How we do it is irrelevent. If we dont address the issues and what is ACUALLY causeing the problems well doesnt matter what we do at that point everyone loses. And loses BIG.

Dear President Obama & Democrats –
Please, please pass healthcare reform. We are counting on you to move this historic legislation forward. The Republicans have had decades in which to enact reform and we have seen NO results. It’s now time for the Democratic Party to heed the call of Americans and do what is right for the American people. We have been held hostage by insurance companies for too long. Insurance companies do not listen to the needs of the American people. They are in healthcare to make a profit, not to improve our health. May God give you all the strength to pass healthcare. We will vote OUT of office all those opposed to healthcare. Thank for being a leader!

BERDA obviously doesn’t read. There’s two reasons premiums are going up. #1 is that they know Obamas going to try to screw them(Just like the FEAR PREMIUM with oil recently) #2 INFLATION The cost of EVERYTHING is going up. That’s what happens when you just PRINT MORE MONEY!!!

Mike — You said “Corperations no longer care anything about the United States or the american people” — Yeah, they only need us to SURVIVE!!!, Duh! — Would you rather have GOVERNMENT making all your decisions? — Are they more sympathetic to the people than corporations? — Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate? The AMA’s own 2008 National Health Insurer Report Card told us which insurer holds this dubious honor! Was it Aetna? Humana? Nope. It was GOVERNMENT-RUN MEDICARE!!!! —- The denial rate found in the study was, on a weighted average basis, roughly 1.7 times that of all of the private carriers combined (99,025 divided by 2,447,216 is 4.05%; 6.85% divided by 4.05% =1.69). You would think Medicare’s sheer size might enable it to have smoother procedures with its providers that would enable it to turn down a lower percentage of claims. But no, this is a GOVERNMENT PROGRAM we’re talking about!!!!
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 11:52:24 AM
You brought up a good point. Government running health care shouldnt be able to deny anything. Same problem with privet health insurence. If a doctor says you need this or that then THATS WHAT YOU GET! You pay for insurence so you can get what the doctors say you need. WHY DOES A INSURENCE COMPANY GET TO SAY NO. SORRY YOU PAYED US FOR YEARS FOR THIS VERY THING BUT WE DONT WANT TO GIVE YOU WAHT YOU PAYED FOR. WHAT A DOCTOR SAYS YOU NEED!!! The goverment shouldnt be able to do this either. the whole system is a scam and is out of control and needs to be fixed.

It’s time. Pass health care and clean it up using reconciliation.

I have an idea. Let’s change the election laws.Let’s start over with a new president. One that won’t force bad ideas down our throats!

“The power of the market should have been used to end the speculation, risky behavior and abuse over the last financial crisis but what happened, the govt. stepped in and did not allow it.”
The statement herein betrays the most callous disregard for the facts and the most heinous disregard for the study of history and economics.
This is a fine example of the power of cognitive dissonance to cause someone to throw out all objective information in favor of a new set of facts to better befit ones own ideological assumptions.

Will supporters of this Bill please choose:
a) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and refute them in the following way: _____.
b) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments, can’t refute them but don’t care.
c) I don’t know about or understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and don’t care.

Flash Override | Mar 6, 2010 12:14:57 PM….Sounds like the global warming issue.

You better believe that if health care reform dies again, the health insurers will feel completely bulletproof. If you think the premium hikes and abuses are bad now, just give them a free pass again. They’ll be partying like it’s 1999 in the insurer boardrooms and corporate jets!! That you can count on.

lash Override | ….My previous post should have been addressed to Leon. Mea culpa.

hopesprings52 | Mar 6, 2010 12:22:36 PM….If this bill does not pass, we the people, CAN effect healthcare reforms and insurance cost containment/reduction.

RobS | Mar 6, 2010 12:24:41 PM….Excellent question. Any bill supporter want to weigh in?

Even when Social Security and Medicare where passed there was some bi-partisan support for it, in this case there’s none. It really is bad public policy to make law this way. Majority rules minority gets trampled, but hey it’s ok when the socialists do it.

Those CEO`s need to be arrested and tried for crimes against humanity.
Just how do they justify there actions?????

Joe Biden in 2005 to Bush about the nuclear option: “and I pray God that when the Democrats take back control we don’t make the kind of naked power grab you are doing”
While Obama is talking nuclear option (also referred to as ‘reconciliation process’) he seems to forget his and his comrades’ remarks to Bush back in 2005 about Bush threatening to use the reconciliation process to appoint his personnel:
The following quotes are all on video (Google ‘naked emperor news democrat nuclear option video’) where you can watch the hypocrisy for yourself:
Obama saying in 2005 about the nuclear option, “you have absolute power of either side and that’s just not what the founders intended”
Hillary Clinton telling Bush about the nuclear option “you have to restrain yourself Mr. President”
Chuck Schumer saying about the nuclear option, “the checks and balances that have been at the core of this Republic are about to be evaporated by the nuclear option . . . it is amazing, it is almost a temper tantrum”
Harry Reid said in 2005 “the fillibuster serves as a check on power and preserves a limited government”
Joe Biden saying “this nuclear option is ultimately an example of the arrogance of power, it is a fundamental power grab”
Feinstein saying “the Senate becomes ipso facto . . . majority rules supreme and the party in power can dominate and control the agenda with absolute power”
Joe Biden again saying about the Republicans threatening to use the nuclear option “and I pray God that when the Democrats take back control we don’t make the kind of naked power grab you are doing”
and Baucus saying “this is the way democracy ends”.
Meanwhile today in 2010, when the Democrats have the power, they conveniently forget about their “principled” remarks from 2005 and are now about to use the very thing these phonies so adamantly chided by passing government health care using the nuclear option. The Democrats aren’t about principle, they’re about power, bending and molding their opinions depending on who’s got the leverage. Democrats feign outrage one year, only to adopt the very thing they were previously “outraged” against in another year. Today they blame the Republicans as the part of “no” while ignoring their recommendations. Today, they choose to use the nuclear option while yesteryear they criticized it as a “naked power grab”.

Hey… the best thing that President Obama can do right now is cancel/nix/stop all of his efforts to reform health insurance premiums in our nation. That would be the easiest and smartest thing for him to do…. follow me here…
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, Medical News Today, the National Coalition on Health Care, etc., Health Insurance Premiums climbed by 76% between 2000 and 2006. On the other hand, wage increases and inflation climbed somewhere between 20 and 25% during that same time period. It is clear that health cost in the nation is increasing 3 times faster than wages and inflation.
But, the American people love this. We should all be saluting Anthem Blue Cross for their recent rate hikes (39%), and all of America should be writing to Blue Cross to thank them for their most recent effort at “scr_w_ing” the middle class.
America, you deserve those rate hikes… every single penny of them… LOL. ESPECIALLY, after all of you fell for the republican scare tactics this last summer about “death panels, socialist medicine, etc.”… LOL… bunch of fools.
As for me, I’ll keep enjoying my Federal Employee Health Benefits (FEHB) health insurance program. … LOL… that’s the kind of health insurance that us republican senators/congressmen… and retired Presidents get to use. And, believe me…. the FEHB, well that’s just another form of a “public option”, but did you really think that we republicans had any intention of letting all of you “commoners” know that? HELL NO! If we were to let you know how good our public option health insurance (Federal Employee Health Benefits) is, you may want a piece of that, and hey, “it’s never good to share a good thing”. You know the old saying, “too many cooks spoil the broth”, well same thing would have applied if we let the general public in on our health care plan.
So America… just thank God that you live in a country where you have a choice… a choice to keep paying higher premiums each year, with increases to your insurance premiums equal to 20, 25, 30, 35… well, OK, more like “39%” each year… LOL. And make sure you all write to Blue Cross to thank them for that.
Oh, before I forget…. remember fools, keep repeating it… “Obama, bad”, “Socialist medicine”, “death panels”…. you’re all doing a GREAT JOB!
LMAO!
As for me

Posted by: RobS | Mar 6, 2010 12:24:41 PM: Medicare Part D was voted in 2003, didn’t take effect until 2006. Same reasons, people are in contracts with insurers that have to be modified, rules and regulations supporting the law have to be written, insurers have to write up new plans to conform to the law, some litigation will happen as to cross-border insurance, etc. Can’t apply policy overnight. Same thing when mandatory airbags came in: Redesign, conception, testing had to be done before it was integrated in all vehicles. BTW, it was urgent in 1994 but the GOP killed it, since then premiums have increased by 200%.

Again, I’d sure appreciate it if supporters of this Bill would choose:
a) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and refute them in the following way: _____.
b) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments, can’t refute them but don’t care.
c) I don’t know about or understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and don’t care.

Problem is that Obama owns the increases in insurance rates. By delaying actions to cut unemployment and using Stimulus funds to stimulate Andy Stern instead of the economy, he has driven unemployment to 97% percent against an 8% commitment.
Unemployment poisons the risk pool as healthy unemployed drop coverage. What part of the insurance companies’ 5% overall profit and 3% profit on policies is going to solve the problem?
Obama should have brought in analysts instead of CEOs if he wanted to find out why rates are increasing — but he doesn’t. Just another Alinsky-style ploy.

Posted by: 312capri | Mar 6, 2010 12:42:17 PM: Actually, Japan has no public system nor for-profit healthcare insurers or providers. Nobody can be denied coverage and premiums are adjusted according to income. Their healthcare costs are half those of the US and thet have better outcomes and longer life expectancy. The single most important problem for US healthcare is that it is seen as a COMMODITY. Systems that allow parallel for-profit and non-profit systems consistently show lower costs and better medical outcomes in the non-profit model. Were your Fire and police Depts seen the way healthcare is now, many neighborhoods or entire cities could not afford one or both of them because of “pre-existing conditions” such as higher crime rates, older wooden constructions or narrower streets, etc.

4civility Said: Again, I’d sure appreciate it if supporters of this Bill would choose:
a) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and refute them in the following way: _____.
b) I understand Paul Ryan’s arguments, can’t refute them but don’t care.
c) I don’t know about or understand Paul Ryan’s arguments and don’t care.
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LMAO! OK… here’s my reply to you:
d) The rapid and high inflation rate of health insurance premiums didn’t start YESTERDAY (“duhh!”). According to many sources (Medical News Today), health insurance premiums increased by over 75% between 2000 and 2006. So, this problem is not new.
…. hmmmmmmmm… let’s see, “2000 and 2006″… uhmm, who controlled the U.S. congress during those years? Answer: The republicans had the majority in both the house and the senate from 1995 to 2007…. all the while health insurance premiums were outpacing inflation and wage growth by 3 or 4 times, each year. AND WHAT DID PAUL RYAN AND THE REPUBLICANS DO ABOUT THIS ISSUE WHEN THEY WERE IN POWER?
ANSWER: “Nothing”, “Nada”, “Niente’”… LOL.
It’s funny how ONLY NOW… the Republicans claim that they have a better plan, when they had 6 straight years to fix this problem when we had a Republican President and a republican congress (January 2001 to January 2007)… but, “ONNNLY NOWWWW” do they have a better solution.
LMAO! “GIVE ME A BREAK WITH YOUR PAUL RYAN SURVEY!”… you’re making yourself look foolish!

My premiums have gone from $30 a month in Jan 2009 to $124 a month in Jan 2009. What the hell gives with this?? posted by plumber pete——That’s how insurance works, publicly traded insurance companies earn a nickel on every dollar they take in. My insurance costs $3,600 a year no state subsidy, quit crying.

LMR Said: “Thanks to the doom criers and nay-sayers, there will be no real health care reform. Everything will be as it has always been: the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and physicians associations will continue to gouge Americans for every dollar and get richer and richer.”
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You’re EXACTLY RIGHT LMR… Anthem Blue Cross already publicly announced rate hike increases in most states at as much as 39%….. and, believe me, my personal opinion… Americans derserve every extra penny of those insurance rate hikes… EVERY SINGLE PENNY OF THEM.
You can thank the “tea partiers” and the “birthers”, and the “right-whiner” screamers from last summer for those rate hikes.
As for me, as a federal employee, I’m under the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program, which, in a way, is a form of “public option” health insurance…. and happy that my insurance premiums don’t climb as high every year… LOL. Thank goodness that those Republicans scared the hell out of the “loonies” and took away any discussion of a public option in any of the current bills. For a while there, some democrats were recommending that the public be allowed to buy into the FEHB or Medicare… but, of course, that was shot down. Good for me… LOL… bad for everyone else that doesn’t work for the government… LOL.
America, keep enjoying your rate hikes and stay the hell away from any discussion of buying into my health care system… “Too many cooks spoil the broth”… LMAO!

4civility Said: “Ryan raises some real important, compelling points” (referring to Republican Congressman Paul Ryan)
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LOL… yeah, and how long has Ryan been in congress? Answer: since 1998.
…and how long have insurance premium increases been outpacing inflation and wage growth each year, by about 3 or 4 times the rate of inflation? Answer: since around the same time.
So, my questions back to you 4civility, is this:
a) Why is it that Paul Ryan, and the Republicans, do something about this problem during all the years when they held the majority in congress (1995 to 2007)?
ANSWER: Because they agreed with the status quo.
b) Why is it that ONLY NOW, after a democratic administration IS TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM, that the republicans agree there is a problem, but can only shoot holes in the plan…. when they should have been working to fix the problem during the years that they had the opportunity to do so? INCLUDING RYAN, who has been in congress since 1998?

Obamacare is just another example of the politics of FREE STUFF.
Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels did a good piece on the Hoosiers experiment with HSAs. It’s amazing what happens when you put people in charge of controlling cost by giving them reason to select the most cost effective solution, negotiate rates, and push back against unnecessary testing.
Nobody can give me an example of FREE STUFF that has worked in the long run. In fact, FREE STUFF creates dependency on more FREE STUFF that not only ruins lives but, in some cases, has propagated the destruction through generations.

Obamacare is just another example of the politics of FREE STUFF.
_____________________________________
Nonsense. The two Bush wars, the Bush tax cuts and the Bush seniors drug plan are examples of FREE STUFF – programs that were NOT paid for.
Not like this health care plan which has elements built into it to pay for itself – these elements have been fully reviewed the the CBO.
If Bush had not instituted these 3 FREE STUFF programs, we would not have started the Obama administration with a $10 trillion dollar national debt.

GOP Legacy: Sacrificed the masses for the benefit of the wealthy minority….

Obama is the insurance companies biggest friend – not the other way around as he would like to paint and spin it to further his agenda.

In some ways this heath care debate (however boring and stupid) reminds me of the plight that every cop faces each time he answers a 911 call involving domestic abuse. Because it sometimes matters not to the victim that the cop is actually there to help them— that sometimes, makes them (the victim) more dangerous to the cop then the aggressor. Of course in the heath care debate we have the citizens who whether they know it or not, at the victim of the aggressor insurance company. But like in every dysfunctional marriage— the aggressor has the victim convinced that everyone else is against them— and of course they are for them–that everything that is done to them (by aggressor) is there either their fault—or for their own good. So– I don’t envy Mr. Obama in his role as the cop— he is dealing with raw unconstrained greed on the part of the insurance companies, and raw ignorance on the part of those he (may be stupidly) trying to help. I am sure that many cops would just love to save themselves, and let the two deadbeats “work” things out among themselves. I’m sure he wishes he could here. But— stupid or not– these people’s xenophobia effects more than just them… the entire nation is sinking under the load of entitlements—I don’t care how many times an older person complains about big government— the truth is that without big government we would (1) not have as many older types to complain about big government. (2) not be about to be swallowed up by china–who just happens to be loaning the money to pay for these entitlements. I know to some it makes sense that only the weakest among us deserve to be taken care of. But by nature–if the parasite kills the host–where does that leave them

You can bring up other topics – the GOP Republicans etc but I am sure insurance companies love the idea of the Obama administration still wanting to criminalize those who choose not to buy health insurance from the same insurance companies who wont lower the price for everyone – well thats not helping everyone is it? Its not even real reform. The bill they want to pass while pretending to be bi-partisan is the pretty much the same bill word for word. I call shennanigans on this article. Rather than force insurance companies to lower their premiums by 50% for all Americans regardless of income – they spared no amount of time or expense to craft a 2000 page loophole filled bill that would benefit the very same insurance companies you claim overcharge you with millions more customers to gouge. A fool believes what he wants – the rest of us understand the truth. Obama is just going to do what he wants – THE EXACT SAME THING THE SAME AGENDA- and blame Republicans for not supporting it if it fails. Its about shifting blame for losing in November 2010 etc. Nothing more. Only an imbecile or a greedy politician would think 2000 more pages of loopholes, government beauracracy and legaleze for lawyers and insurers to slither through is good for our nation.

Republican Legacy: The glorification of lunacy….

The health care bill is never going to benefit the working class. Abortion should never be in a health care bill, because it is not health care, it is murder. Why do we, the working class, not deserve the same coverage that the congress/senate persons have, because the working class is already paying for it? The entire government needs an overhaul. But those of you who continue to vote in the same people, year after year, have no one to blame but yourself. Why do you not want change?

Is anyone not convinced yet that our President and Congress care nothing about our unemployment problems and way more about passing their own agenda to criminalize not buying healthcare insurance from the very same companies that are jacking up rates, premiums and causing these problems? The Congress and President are crooks and there is a lot of money on the line (money that will go into their pockets) and thats why they are still pushing and shoving this horrible idea. What person doesnt realize our healthcare will be worse when the Government and Insurance companies BOTH interfere in patients healthcare. Who would argue that patients need more beauracracy – except a politician looking to score a political victory and money for his party?They had the chance to pass it with the supermajority last year and they didnt- even his own party doesnt want to get behind this awful plan that criminalizes not carrying health insurance from the same private companies that are supposedly gouging us and doesnt mandate lowering the price of premiums.

There may very well be a democrat imposed bill passed by reconcilliation by the democrats(an awful healthcare bill that criminalizes all who choose not to purchase expensive private insurers healthcare plans and forces all employers and businesses to provide heathcare benefits) it will subsequently followed by economic turmoil and disaster – that much is certain. Once the Pandora’s Box is open companies (who are already firing big time) will lay people off in the tens of thousands to reduce the people they have on the books and more consultants, contractors and temporary workers will also join the ranks of the unemployed. There will be no need for temps on consultants if the point was to not pay them health benefits. This will also cause a chain reaction and many companies of all types will fail and close up shop – putting headhunters and agencies out of work. Companies may be forced to lower the average persons wage to cover the costs. There will be a weakened demand for goods and services since so many more people will be put out of work. Stores will close, businesses will close, restaurants will close for lack of business as America tightens its belt further. The cycle which democrats and liberals control things will end after the November 2010 elections shake up congress and democrats lose seats and Obama finally leaves office in 2012 – after that we may see some improvement. The only good thing to come from it may be the democrats will so much damage to our country and its economy that another democrat may not be elected for the next 10 to 20 years.

Mom says–
The health care bill is never going to benefit the working class. Abortion should never be in a health care bill, because it is not health care, it is murder. Why do we, the working class, not deserve the same coverage that the congress/senate persons have, because the working class is already paying for it? The entire government needs an overhaul. But those of you who continue to vote in the same people, year after year, have no one to blame but yourself. Why do you not want change?
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Look Mom, whether you like it or not abortions are going to happen. Whether it reverts back to back alleys and hangers or good safe medical practices. Abortions are a part of the American medical association. I’m sorry you feel the pain you obviously feel when an abortion procedure is done. Unfortunately not everyone shares your pain or point of view. Stoopidpak is grand standing and trying to do what he believes will get him re elected. In the mean time insurance companies are just partying with our insurance rates like it’s 1999. Soon there will not be enough money for most businesses to pay for employee health care. In case you missed it. A Well Point subsidiary raised rates 39.5%. The raise in rates comes following a year which saw Well Point make 2.2 billion dollar net corporate profit. If abortion is your concern. Read what and how federal funds COULD POSSIBLY, is a very convoluted way, end up being used for abortion coverage. STOOPIDPAK is hurting WE THE PEOPLE. One guy like Bunning cost 400,000 people their desperately needed unemployment checks. One Sen. Bunning, had 2000 government workers temporarily lose their jobs and health coverage. Bunnings action alone is reason to go “nuclear”.
secreg666

Mitch’s cove isn’t the entitlement state really the insurance companies frame of mind. Based on their irresponsible, ever needing more profit business model. I wouild disagree with you and suggest it is the insurance industry which has an entitlement mentality. HC CEO’s believe they are entitled to insure ONLY the least likely to be sick. HC insurance companies believe it is their entitlement not to insure any Americans with pre existing conditions. HC insurance coNpany believe it is their entitlement not to discuss or make open to the public their cost of doing business. NC CEO’s believe it is their entitlement to drop the sick from their rolls. Your definition of entitlements is so pase that it shows your bigotry, your age, and your extreme prejudice.
Don’t ever expect a tear from me for any insurnace company. I said insurance company. You know, some name on a hard disc drive in Delaware. Run by a CEO who is only concerned about his benefit and income package and share holder profits.
Entitlement, huh! WE THE PEOPLE are entitled to health care.
SECREG666

Fact is the people shouldn’t be forced to pay for someone infanticide if their morals don’t allow it.
___________________________________
Read the bill, do some research – you’re wrong.

How are insurance companies irresponsible? 82% efficient (payouts/premiums) against some state requirements of only 70%. Employing 100k’s of people? Earning 3% on policies and maybe 5% overall? They aren’t in the welfare business. They are driven by the risk pool — unemployment poisons the risk pool — rates go up. They have to be responsible. The government doesn’t think that way — ‘cuz by the time the country falls off the cliff in debt, the politicians that voted for this garbage will be long gone.

LOL, by the time Congress & the Unions have to pay tax on their Cadillac plans, Obama will be long gone. Planned that way.

tierra — I was responding to a comment about coat hangers and alleys without abortion being covered. It shouldn’t be, but that doesn’t prevent anyone from paying for whatever form of birth control they choose.

superminority Said: “Is anyone not convinced yet that our President and Congress care nothing about our unemployment problems and way more about passing their own agenda to criminalize not buying healthcare insurance from the very same companies that are jacking up rates, premiums and causing these problems?”
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LMAO! This… ladies and gentlemen… is a perfect example of a “right-whiner” unable to “connect-the-dots” between this high health care cost issue in our nation and its effects on the rest of the economy.
superminority, go do some homework! Go read the articles at the National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC) webpage and READ about the economic impacts of rising health care cost on the rest of the economy in the nation. And, by the way, the National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC) is a non-partison organization co-led by both a Republican and a Democrat.
superminority, let me put it to you in simple terms (which someone like you may understand)… when “health care cost” eat up so much of corporate budgets, state budgets, the federal budget and family budgets, it means that in all of those budgets there is less to spend on other things, such as “new projects” (in regards to corporations) or more “disposable income” so that families purchase other things (other than 25% of their income going to health care). THE HEALTH CARE COST PROBLEM DOES IN FACT CONNECT TO THE UNEMPLYMENT PROBLEM…. GOOD GOD, is it that hard to understand?
It really amazes me that the party that has traditionally been for big business has so many followers (a.k.a. “right-whiners”) that are CLUELESS about economics, and CLUELESS about the impacts/effect of the nation’s rapidly rising health care cost problem on the rest of the economy, which impacts “employment”.
Go do some homework and READ, before you start “whining” again about unemployment.

Posted by: mom | Mar 6, 2010 2:25:15 PM: Letting people die of health problems, shying away from proper sex and contraception education leading to unwanted pregnancies and more abortions or poverty, resulting in more crime and death is criminal. Worry about the living half as much as the unborn then come back and talk!

The ultimate goal of Barack Obama is a government takeover of healthcare in the socialist fashion.
__________________________________
You mean like those horrible socialists in Canada? The insurance system is single payer, but all other aspects of health care, including doctors, clinics, labs, etc are all private enterprise.
Or did you mean those evil socialist Australians?

@mitchscove | Mar 6, 2010 2:24:45 PM: What you fail to notice is that major insurers also are major shareholders in healthcare providers such as clinics, hospitals PhRMa and make money by paying these providers the astronomical costs they charge… to themselves!

You didn’t mention Bunning voted against pay-go. Bunning is an odd bird.
His own party had to do the bad thing and vote with democats to get the job bill passed. I’m not using scare tactics. Only pointing out where we have come from the days when abortions were conducted in alley ways. So Mom and I have a different opinion. I did not call her names. I respect her opinion. And thanks to the poster who pointed out without HCR our country will go BK. It always amuses me how gullible sheeple vote against their own best interests. And our country can survive the option like it has every other health advancement bill we have ever passed.
Some poster considers abortion murder. So be it. Here is my question. save the fetus, but complain about welfare and entitlement programs after the fetus turns into a young fully formed formed baby and the parents can’t afford med care or food for the new born. Save the fetus, kill the born child. no medical support for that saved fetus.His parent(s) can’t afford the premium. Or the moms a crack head. Spending all the available money on crack. How pathetically hypocritical you are. most unwanted or unplanned children end up on the welfare roles you decry. What are
you believing? You’re a better person for saving a microscopic fetus? But once it arrives you don’t want any part of it? Most unwanted children go on to become criminals, child molesters, wife beaters.
SECREG666

treblig56 — link? Look at the annual reports. Most WLP & UHI revenue is from premiums — premiums & cost of care have to be broken out because the ratio is how they are regulated by states. Small additional revenue numbers are services and products.
Do a search on McAllen Tx healthcare costs. You will find that some Drs. refer patients to themselves for tests. That’s a little bit of a conflict. BTW — it disproved my earlier assumption that malpractice insurance is a big player. Abuse in the medical field is huge.

Lack of head to head competition is the cause for rising prices.
Increase the competition and it will cause prices to moderate.
Government interference in the market will result in loss of choice and doctors refusing to take certain insurances.
In medicare, some refuse and others refuse to accept direct payment meaning we carry the float.
Competition is the answer and the only good choice is removing state boundaries on insurance companies.

Frank, you’re a freekin genius! Have you thought about giving up your daytime job as a toilet bowl cleaner in public parks and become a novelist?
SECREG666

One day the Tea Party folks and others on the right, many of whom speak out in good faith, will come to realize that government is not their true enemy. Our current government is simply a wholly owned subsidiary of big bank, insurers, pharaceutical companies, wall street, major media corporations,and giant multi-national conglomerates. When health care is not just 1/7 of the economy, but 1/2 because of corporate greed. When someone in their family, having faithfuly paid premiums for years, is denied care by the corporate death panels, these folks may understand. Of course, the haters and racists on the right are beyond reason.

BBear, very well said.
SECREG666

BBear Said: “One day the Tea Party folks and others on the right, many of whom speak out in good faith, will come to realize that government is not their true enemy…When health care is not just 1/7 of the economy, but 1/2 because of corporate greed. When someone in their family, having faithfuly paid premiums for years, is denied care by the corporate death panels, these folks may understand. Of course, the haters and racists on the right are beyond reason.”
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BBear….. you are ABSOLUTELY correct. and Anthem Blue Cross just recently raised insurance rates, in some areas as high as 39%.
Americans DESERVE every single penny of those rate increases, and we can all say thanks to the “tea partiers” screaming tactics (and the republican party) last summer for those higher premiums.
Everyone, “One, Two, Three”… “Thank you tea partiers!”…. LMAO!
Enjoy your new rates this year, and also the rate increase next year, and the year after… and so on, and so on, and so on. We ALL earned them… LOL.

Obama clearly understands the concept of “spread the wealth around.” So why does he have such difficulty grasping the insurance industry’s age old axiom of “spread the losses around.”
If there is an insured pool of 1,000,000 people, each paying on average $2,000 per year in premiums, the insurance carrier would take in $2,000,000,000 annually. Per most state’s insurance laws (yes, each and every state has a series of laws that effect what a health insurer selling in that state can/cannot due with rates), health insurers must payout at least 70% of premiums collected in the form of claims paid out ($1,400,000 in this example), or $1,400 in claims per average insured.
What happens (and has happened) when this pool shrinks by 20% of your insured’s (and it will be the healthy ones that leave, due to other pressing financial responsibilities, and it WILL be the ones that have $0 claims, and believe they can afford to take the financial risk)?
The insurance carrier will have to raise their premiums (“spread their losses around”), so that the remaining 800,000 insured’s (80%) are paying enough premiums to cover the $1,400,000 in expected claims expenses. The formula would be $1,400,000 claims expenses, divided by 800,000 remaining insureds, or $1,750 in claims per average insured, or an increase in the average claims amount of 25% (and this assumes that the average remaining pool, which is guaranteed to be older in age–less healthy with higher claims per insured than the previous average–does not increase above the $1,400 per insured average).
Thus, you are now left with 800,000 insured people having to pay enough premiums ($2,500 per insured–or a 25% rate increase) to pay for the same $1,400,000 in claims paid.
Is the concept really that difficult to understand, Mr. President? Surely, if you can grasp “spread the wealth around” understanding “spread the losses around” is not that big of leap?

JMO, the bigest problem I have with your posting is that your numbers are all made up and you leave out lots of important facts and factors which dispute your point. Our country can not afford health care as a for profit industry unless there is competition to keep the prices down. Currently there is no such form of competition.
SECREG666
SECREG666

Gotta love the comparisons to socialist countries with anemic economies and population sizes between 7% (Australia) and 10% of the USA. WE produce more then 25% of the world’s Gross Domestic Product with only 4.3% of the world’s people. Canada produces 1.9% of GDP and Australia 1%. The USA is the world’s only super power and has for generations employed an astonishing market economy that provides a high standard of living to a very diverse population. Obama and his half page resume, along with the democrat party will try to put an end to these realities. Not only is he a disastrous failure, but it’s time to wonder what they’re teaching at PC leftist Harvard these days. While many great men graduated from there, no longer. It’s time for new students to boycott Harvard and voters to avoid it’s socialist graduates.

Leftist, rightist, any ist. Our GDP is comprised of 2/3rds Americans spending.
Where do you get the facts to support your claim we produce more than 25% of the worlds domestic product? What do we make and sell over seas? Today the falling dollar helps corporate profits over seas due to exchange rates. Again, what do we produce in the sates and export that makes up 25% of the worlds gdp? I think you are confusing the US with a different country or two. Most of our industry left the states years ago. Almost 1/2 the service jobs have been outsourced. wait a minute, what country do you live in? Better yet, what is todays month date and year?
SECREG666

Is Obama trying to take control of PG, GTE, GE, IBM, INTC, WSX, CSX or any other company except those that were either going to destroy our country if they failed? SHH! I heard Obama is taking over this Green penny company and he is going to make a killing. The name of the company is Stupid Green. It’s on the pink sheets. SHHH! Socialism is coming if we pass a public option, wooooo!! It’s the end of the world as we know it!! And I feel fine!
SECREG666

YES It’s time to talk turkey. All those in favor of health insurance companies depriving people of life saving coverage because of pre existing conditions yell NO! Wait till next year! All those in favor of scrapping medicare and privatizing medicare so the elderly and the sick are subjected to health insurance company executive decisions to profit or not to profit. Just say NO! Wait until next year. All those in favor of keeping thirty six million Americans uninsured. Just say no! Wait until next year! All those in favor of voting against your own suggestions. Just say NO! Wait until next year! All those who believed the original bill was too long! Just say NO! Wait until next year! All of those who are unhappy about the new eleven page bill being to short! Just say NO! Wait until next year! All those who are in the minority and want to see nothing get done to help sick Americans! Just say no! Wait until next year! All of those who bellieve it’s OK for large insurance coNpanies to lose policyholders, raise premiums by 39.5 and make obscene profits by screwing the American people. just say NO! Wait till next year. Health insurance is a right all Americans should have. It is not a privilege. Our country has changed since our founding fathers fought England for our independence. Let’s keep our moral compass and do the right thing. SECREG666

Mitch’s cove, figures don’t lie. But liars always figure. Ask the CEO of MaCdonalds if he would rather wrap burgers at $8.50 an hour. Margins are different in every industry. Only 65-75 cents of every health insurance dollar in a for profit insurnace goes towards actual health care. Stop your BS comparisons. I play with numbers all week, you’re weak.
SECREG666

Americans want cheaper health care! We do not want more of the same we REQUIRE a real solution. USA pays almost DOUBLE what Canadians do for health care.
Canada simply removed the private health insurance for profit insurance companies from the health care system and cut the costs of health care by almost one half.
So why would that work you ask? Why have private for profit health insurance have become the merchants of misery in our health care system?
I think the reason is so simple we tend to overlook it. In order to become Doctors, Doctors take an oath to do good for their patients and not to harm anyone. Essentially Doctors promise not to enrich their pocketbook at the expense of our health. That is not to say Doctors always live up to that oath but private for profit insurance companies never took that oath and in fact do exactly the opposite.
Health insurance companies spend huge amounts of money doing what we do not want them to do. Insurance companies have no business being in the business of deciding our health care system, our health policy, and deciding who gets what medical service and who doesn’t!
Health insurance companies are NOT serving our best interests, they are serving theirs!

I think most educated (truly educated) people who do not have stock in HMO’s or Insurance companies would believe in reforming health care. Only block-headed people or heartless ones would let the poor and sick go without care. One commenter said the ‘adults’ vacated the White House in 2008. That is the FUNNIEST thing I have ever read here! Gosh. You should do stand-up! Only if you think adults are the Faces of Evil.

Republican existence is like gangrene and flesh-eating bacteria that has infected our nation, its politics, economy and culture The right wing is a disease from which America might never recover. Look at the damage already done by the Republican Party over the past decade or two.

To call this a government take over of insurance industry is such an inaccurate description of this legislation. This not to say the government runs a good business model,but private industry has turned a good capitalist enterprise into the same monster the banking industry was.Are we to just wait and let it lead us to the same point.Every business model which produced the most prosper people in the world has been turn into just the opposite.Not only is it health care, but we lag in everything but in the military for now . Right now, partly because we did nothing with social security, with banking and now health care,our military and space innovation is being curtailed severely .The result militarily is obvious.Everybody up there needs to connect the dots and work together to fix our American enterprises which are being used as the back way to overtake us and destroy us.

All this seething Republican lying, slandering, obstructionism, etc, etc, is just cover for the outlandish Republican corruption and resulting damage to America – and the world. It’s just corrupt noise to hide Republican corruption….

Sentenel — yes, terrible people that worked for 10 years trying to get Fannie & Freddie under control, over obstacles thrown up by the Democrats, the party of NO. Don’t have to look farther than the minutes of the Capital Markets Subcommittee dating back to March, 2000. ‘course Barney had a reason to block any action — that is until the Summer of 2008 when the economy was heading for a cliff. Terrible people those Republicans.

The only thing Anthem is “insuring” is its profits – not me. Anthem can take their health “insurance” and shove it! I want this healthcare legislation – and the Public Option – and then I will dump Anthem in a healthy heartbeat!

Progressive Mama,
Thanks for your response. I’m glad we’re on speaking terms despite my outburst the other day. It’s gonna take me a while to digest the links you provided.

Obama clearly understands the concept of “spread the wealth around.” So why does he have such difficulty grasping the insurance industry’s age old axiom of “spread the losses around.”
If there is an insured pool of 1,000,000 people, each paying on average $2,000 per year in premiums, the insurance carrier would take in $2,000,000,000 annually. Per most state’s insurance laws (yes, each and every state has a series of laws that effect what a health insurer selling in that state can/cannot due with rates), health insurers must payout at least 70% of premiums collected in the form of claims paid out ($1,400,000 in this example), or $1,400 in claims per average insured.
What happens (and has happened) when this pool shrinks by 20% of your insured’s (and it will be the healthy ones that leave, due to other pressing financial responsibilities, and it WILL be the ones that have $0 claims, and believe they can afford to take the financial risk)?
The insurance carrier will have to raise their premiums (“spread their losses around”), so that the remaining 800,000 insured’s (80%) are paying enough premiums to cover the $1,400,000 in expected claims expenses. The formula would be $1,400,000 claims expenses, divided by 800,000 remaining insureds, or $1,750 in claims per average insured, or an increase in the average claims amount of 25% (and this assumes that the average remaining pool, which is guaranteed to be older in age–less healthy with higher claims per insured than the previous average–does not increase above the $1,400 per insured average).
Thus, you are now left with 800,000 insured people having to pay enough premiums ($2,500 per insured–or a 25% rate increase) to pay for the same $1,400,000 in claims paid.
Is the concept really that difficult to understand, Mr. President? Surely, if you can grasp “spread the wealth around” understanding “spread the losses around” is not that big of leap?

Plain and simple: Republicanism is a disease that needs curing….

By the time Obama finishes his presidency, he would have made significant changes in the country for the good of the American people. I would not be surprised that the Republicans are geared up to repeal some of Obama’s legislations. They are already talking about repealing the healthcare reform if it passes.

I wish the extreme liberals would get out of my purse. I don’t care about medical care – except for those I am personally responsible and accountable for.
That’s the problem with groups of people. Conservatives are responsible and accountable for themselves. Liberals are responsible for everyone else – but not the bills.

By the time Obama finishes his presidency, he would have made significant changes in the country for the good of the American people. I would not be surprised that the Republicans are geared up to repeal some of Obama’s legislations. They are already talking about repealing the healthcare reform if it passes.
Posted by: what667 | Mar 6, 2010 7:08:58 PM
what667, you make a great point about the significant changes for the better. In November, Nathan Newman posted a partial list of progressive accomplishments at TPM, including three major health bills (SCHIP, tobacco regulation, and stimulus funds for Medicaid, COBRA subsidies, health information technology and the National Institutes of Health) enacted even before/without comprehensive reform. Plus, the stimulus not only prevented a far worse depression but contained a wide variety of policy victories, delivering key new funds for education, expanding state energy conservation programs and transit programs, adding new smart grid investments, funding high-speed Internet broadband programs, extending unemployment insurance and modernizing state UI programs to cover more of the unemployed, and making new and improved investments in the safety net, for the security of all citizens. In addition, there’s stopping pay discrimination through Lilly Ledbetter and Equal Pay laws, passing hate crimes protections for gays and lesbians, protecting stem cell research research, appointing much-needed new EPA leadership and reversing Bush’s funding cutoff to overseas family planning organizations, likely saving many, many lives.
Newman rightly notes, ” Notably, between the stimulus and other budget spending, no less than the Wall Street Journal calls Obama’s investments in science, especially green technology, a “once-in-a-generation shift in U.S. science,” reinvigorating 17 giant U.S.-funded research facilities, from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory to the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, as well as university research facilities .”
And then there’s the many counterterrorism successes, despite the naysayers. And the Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act of 2009. I also think several steps have been taken toward more transparency and rooting out lobbyists, not perfectly, of course, but steps in the right direction.

I want single payer and/or the public option. That would bhe real health care reform and not some give away to the health insurance industry.

The WH is currently villianizing Health Insurers. When will he and the public decide the Auto, Home or Liability Insurers are next?
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
That is a question we need to think about. First banks and auto industry, then health care..where DOES the desire for government run everything end?

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Posted by: You cant handle the truth | Mar 6, 2010 8:26:00 PM
Yes because then the RNC can exploit that fear, and you all can pass it around– and make donations to creeps willing to take advantage of you.

Obama/Reid/Pelosi. A combination that is leading us down a very dangerous path. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Posted by: You cant handle the truth | Mar 6, 2010 8:26:00 PM
_____________________________________
More attempts by the Republican right to pretend anybody else being elected in America puts the country in GRAVE danger.
In other words, a fear mongering campaign.
Republicans think they have the divine right to rule American. They don’t.
The R

JMO, you miss the point completely. People want to buy health insurance, but the insurance companies are charging too much. And when people with insurance get really sick the insurance companies try to find a bogus reason to cancel their policy.
Your example of your homeowner’s insurance also doesn’t hold water. You’ve paid $90,000 in premiums but if your house had burned down the insurance company would have replaced it, costing many times more than the 90k you put in. That is the whole idea of insurance, you are covered if disaster strikes. How would you like it if the insurance company said, we won’t pay to replace your house after all?

We can have this with the bill passed:
‘Millions of lives will improve. Some will be saved. Many families and small business owners will have health insurance for the very first time in their lives. Doctors and patients will have more control over their health care decisions, and insurance company bureaucrats will have less.’
Or we can have steadily ratcheting upward premiums with less coverage, more folks not affording insurance and those folks that are buying it will less and less money in their budgets for everything else. And the 45,000 Americans who die each year because they lack insurance will be joined by thousands more.
Which future looks better for our people and our economy?

Insurance is just that to insure if a disaster strikes you don’t lose everything. Unfortunatley even with insurance these days you can still go bankrupt because everything isn’t covered. The other story is the under insured. The insurance companies are filthy rich from ripping the puplic off and everyone just sits around moaning.

Dosen’t anyone get that the republicans are fighting hard against healthcare because it imposes on the insurance industries profit margin. They will defend the right for corporations and wealthy individuals over the general population every time.

Bob S —– Dosen’t anyone get that the republicans are fighting hard against THIS PARTICULAR healthcare reform bill because it is BAD LAW!! — Tell me the top three things YOU think Obamacare does for America, and I bet your wrong on two of them!!

Dearest Mr. President,
The problem is that we can’t get a straight answer out of YOU.
A $1 trillion bill to “save money on health care”? Please!!

The WHOLE bill is about CONTROL… It’s just a power grab to increase the size of government, grabbing 17% MORE of the US economy!!! — “Big Gov” favors the Democrats, gets more people on the public dole and you DEPEND on government to survive!! — WHY ELSE would you make a 2000+ page bill that DOESN’T EVEN ACCOMPLISH THE BASIC GOALS??? —– 1) Its way too expensive. 2) It will still leave 16 million Americans uninsured in 10 years (CBO figures). 3) Insurance premiums will still RISE for the average American, mainly because of the mandates place upon them, and no bill provisions which control costs. 4) Government entitlement programs always turn out to cost 10-20 times what they were predicted, why should this be any different?. 5) It adds many NEW TAXES to the average American. 6) It will take our freedoms away — Force an American to buy a product??? — Unreal, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!

Two great things the health reform bill does: it ensures that the majority of Americans will have insurance and it ensures that the insurance companies can not deny people based on pre-existing conditions. Why is this important? As soon as the majority of people are covered and can not be denied said coverage due to pre-existing conditions then the issue of cost control will actually mean something. Because as long as it is morally acceptable to deny coverage to those most in need of it because they can’t afford the outrageous medical costs and insurance premiums then only those who can afford it will be given it and prices will continue to rise.

Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 10:37:38 PM
Sorry, I don’t want the Republicans increasing the size of government and then lying about it . . . I don’t want them back in power – they’re hypocrites.
This President was forced to take over a huge national debt, a huge deficit – and an almost completely collapsed economy – all left by the last Republican administration.
Your ‘great concern’ is a little late and WAY misplaced.

Also, 2) You can’t have people joining up ONLY when they are diagnosed with an illness, that would allow people to “wait” until they need the coverage, knowing they have to be accepted!!
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Mar 6, 2010 10:54:50 PM
____________________________________
That is why in every country with ‘universal’ health care, everyone is required to pay into the fund . .

FREE STUFF begets demand for more free stuff.
Someone tell me a welfare success story. Just one that broke out of the cycle of poverty and FREE STUFF. You really think what you have done to the poor is compassionate? To whom? The Democrats they vote for to get their FREE STUFF.
We have tens of millions of illegals doing jobs Americans don’t want. We are giving unemployed Americans FREE STUFF to sit at home. Is it me or is there something wrong with this picture?
The longer we give them FREE STUFF, the longer they stay at home doing nothing.
The Democrats, paid off by the unions, have ruined our schools. After two years the lousiest teachers have tenure and can’t be fired. The only option is to give them FREE STUFF to sit in a rubber room away from the children.
Now, since we can’t figure out how to pay for Medicare, we’re going to start a new program to give away FREE STUFF at the expense of people that will be forced to buy something they may or may not want.
We are in a recession caused by Democrats who felt everyone had a god-given right to own a home — even if Fannie & Freddie had to give away FREE STUFF to make it happen.
Enough of this stupidity! Set up Healthcare savings accounts for those who can afford it, get rid of abuse, and find a way to help people that can’t afford insurance —but make sure they have skin in the game.
FREE STUFF doesn’t work, has never worked, and will never work.

How much extra will they charge you a month in premiums to cover your pre-existing condition? $100? $200? $500 or $1000 or $2000 a month extra if you have cancer? Where does it say they cant? Dont people with bad driving records pay more for car insurance then people with good driving records? Why wouldnt people with cancer or a disease pay more for health insurance? If they keep the price the same for everyone (to make it fair) then wont EVERYONES premium in the pool have to go up (to pay for those pre-existing condition folks claims)???
Apparently 30 million people who dont buy health insurance (10% of the population) is a bigger problem to Obama then 15 to 20 million people without a job (that’s also nearly 10% of the US population).
Well if I can make insurance companies pay out on every single claim and pre-existing condition – cant I make insurance companies simply lower their monthly premiums by 50% across the board and save us all money regardless of income? Both of those things lose insurance companies money (supposedly unless the pre-existing thing is just a ruse and they can deny claims for whatever other reason they want or overcharge right)?

FREE STUFF begets demand for more free stuff.
Someone tell me a welfare success story.
_________________________________
I can tell you a FREE STUFF failure story.
That would be the Republicans under their last president. Bush thought he could get 2 wars, a seniors drug program and tax cuts for the rich – FOR FREE.
And it ended up doubling the national debt and exploding the deficits. Couple this with the other Republican failure – the almost complete collapse of the economy on Bush’s watch – AND YOU HAVE WHERE THE COUNTRY WAS LEFT – by the Republicans.

Example: Someone who pretends to be an American citizen on a blog.
Posted by: For the Record | Mar 7, 2010 1:17:37 AM
_____________________________________
Phony – someone who pretends to know something they don’t know – and is WRONG.
You seem to have a hard time facing up to facts.
“…the “true size” of the federal government stands at 14.6 million employees, said Paul C. Light, the study’s author and a government professor at New York University.
“That compares with 12.1 million employees in 2002, said Light, who has tracked the growth of government for years and has data for as far back as 1990.”
… AND REMEMBER FOLKS, THIS ARTICLE WAS COMPARING THE RISE IN FEDERAL EMPLOYEES FROM 2002 TO 2006… an increase of 2.5 MILLION employees… all while we had a REPUBLICAN President and a REPUBLICAN Congress (2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006)…
LMAO! You just have to LOVE that party that loves to claim that they’re the party of “fiscal responsibility and smaller government”… yet, they never act that way once their in control.
Posted by: GeorgieBushie | Mar 6, 2010 7:59:20 PM
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Interesting . … and Republicans have the nerve to be pretending to be all high and mighty . .. hypocrites and deceivers.
You’re batting about .125 the last while For The Record.

“… AND REMEMBER FOLKS, THIS ARTICLE WAS COMPARING THE RISE IN FEDERAL EMPLOYEES FROM 2002 TO 2006… an increase of 2.5 MILLION employees… all while we had a REPUBLICAN President and a REPUBLICAN Congress (2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006)…”
_________________________________
We’re talking here about the hypocrisy of the Republicans and the Republican right posters on this blog. (Or their ignorance of the facts.)
The Republicans are the great pretenders that they’re ‘fiscally responsible’ and for ‘small government’ when the facts point more to them as phonies and liars.

This is nothing less than Obama using fear tactics to get his way. He reminds me of “Ben” from Lost episodes.

Posted by: indithinker | Mar 7, 2010 2:45:31 AM
Maybe Scott Brown will cast another intelligent non-partisan vote?

If the Republican’s weren’t quite so invested in protecting Romney, they would be pointing out that the Blueprint for the Obama Plan in Massachusetts, is failing so badly that Governor Patrick ( long term Obama Supporter) just asking for money to prop up the failing hospital in his state that count on it Health Care Reform Insurance.
According to ABC News Massachusetts Health Care Reform has resulting in in creased int he cost of Health insurance of up to 40% and Massachusetts now has the most Expensive Health Care IN THE COUNTRY.
I don’t believe that Republicans are my friend on Health Care, but the Democrats with their PLAN TO FAIL have proven they are the Enemy!

“The insurance companies aren’t starting over. I just met with some of them on Thursday and they couldn’t give me a straight answer as to why they keep arbitrarily and massively raising premiums….” Speaking of straight answers, what is in this bill, what will it cost, what does it do to our existing coverage, what does it contain, how will it effect our parents medicare, etc, etc? O’Bama hasen’t answered OUR questions – why should he be upset that the insurance companies haven’t answered HIS???

Lets review!! — Obama is elected, the Dems gain a supermajority —– The Dems and Obama assume they can pass any bill they want (we’ll call that arrogance)! — They immediately go for the jugular, trying to pass the largest entitlement bill in 50 years, and not only that, they include provisions (abortion funding, the “public option”) that have been avoided even by Dems for years… and GUESS WHAT… they awaken a silent majority (pushing the independents to the right) who actually start grass-roots meetings and movements showing their disdain for the Dems plans!! ——- The Dems try to call them “astroturf” and “nazi’s” and “racists”, but the fact remains the Dems “bit off more than they can chew”!!! —– They retreat by dropping controversial provisions that the Blue Dogs won’t vote for… they continue to force the issue by BRIBING their own senators but still no passage —– NOW, a year later, Obama still tries to get SOMETHING passed (because a “total shutout” would really be face-ball — Whoa — total in-your face!!!) —- As a last try — Obama makes a “sham” of reaching across the aisle — then decides to go “nuclear”! —————- Sorry, folks, but your Messiah blew it big time!! — You can “demonize” the folks at Fox all you want, but this was a simple miscalculation by the progressives!! — They never counted on the “blue dog” dems giving them such a hard time!! —- And they will pay the price in November!!! — Truth hurts, libs!! — This session of Dem-controlled congress will always be remembered as the “time we almost got it done!”

And they will hope on hope that someday someone, including the GOP, will do something to fix it …and they will wait, and wait, and wait, just like the characters from the classic play Waiting for Godot….and you know what, just like in the play, it never comes….now what?
——posted by indithinker
—————-
So many people who claim to be for health insurance reform keep posting complaints against the Republicans and only against the Republicans or Democrats who share some of their views. Why?
I want health insurance reform, but I disagree with how the President and the Democratic leadership in Congress want to do it.
Here’s a suggestion to all who want health insurance reform and want it now: contact the President and Democratic leadership and insist they do what is necessary to bring everyone into agreement.
Insist that the President and the Democrtic leadership work with the rest of Congress.
Then we need to contact every single member of Congress and tell them to work with the President and Democratic leadership….demand it.
Once key elements are identified that everyone can agree on NOW (compromising if necessary for the key points. Then Congress needs to pass what can be done about health insurance reform NOW.
We as American citizens need to show Congress how it’s done. We who post on these sites need to stop attacking each other, the name-calling, the boasting and taunting need to stop.
If we can’t compromise, how the heck can we expect those ego-tripping elected officials to do it?

So tierra,what do you think about that latedt Maclean’s article about Obama’s budget?

Obama’s fake outrage toward insurance companies is just like his fake outrage at fatcat bankers.
He is forcing people to buy health care.
And who does that benefit?
Obama is guaranteeing millions of new customers for the health care industries.
It’s no wonder obama has not fought for the public option, eliminating any competition with HC industry.
Obama is owned and controlled by those with the money and the power.
All of his backdoor pals hiding in the shadows.

When a politician asks us to believe that executives in some particular industry are less honorable than the rest of us–even less honorable than our politicians–you know that he is both desperate and deeply dishonest.
Mr. Obama knows very well that insurance premiums are based upon the cost of the events against which they insure–in this case, the provision of healthcare services.
He also knows that nothing in Obamacare will lower those costs by a single dime. This legislation, should it pass, will fundamentally alter the relationship between the American citizen and his government. When the government wants to reduce it’s outlays for medical treatments it will do do as it has done everywhere: it will delay and deny those services. And the citizen will have nowhere else to turn.
Welcome to the Brave New World, serfs. Because you won’t provide for yourselves, you’re happy to entrust the government with that task. Your children and grandchildren will curse you for it.
I’ve never been more grateful fot the fact that I’ve made myself rich. You dopes never will.

He also knows that nothing in Obamacare will lower those costs [the provision of healthcare services] by a single dime.
_______________________________________
You apparently haven’t studied these pieces of legislation.

and he can’t explain our tax increases in a way we can understand.
__________________________________
What tax increases?
Posted by: tierra | Mar 7, 2010 2:41:26 PM
___________________________________
You know the ones tierra, it is the logical construction that:
1) Democrats raise taxes
2) Therefore, Obama raised taxes
What more proof do you need? Facts are immaterial, since they have a liberal bias.

Obama clearly understands the concept of “spread the wealth around.” So why does he have such difficulty grasping the insurance industry’s age old axiom of “spread the losses around.”
If there is an insured pool of 1,000,000 people, each paying on average $2,000 per year in premiums, the insurance carrier would take in $2,000,000,000 annually. Per most state’s insurance laws (yes, each and every state has a series of laws that effect what a health insurer selling in that state can/cannot due with rates), health insurers must payout at least 70% of premiums collected in the form of claims paid out ($1,400,000 in this example), or $1,400 in claims per average insured.
What happens (and has happened) when this pool shrinks by 20% of your insured’s (and it will be the healthy ones that leave, due to other pressing financial responsibilities, and it WILL be the ones that have $0 claims, and believe they can afford to take the financial risk)?
The insurance carrier will have to raise their premiums (“spread their losses around”), so that the remaining 800,000 insured’s (80%) are paying enough premiums to cover the $1,400,000 in expected claims expenses. The formula would be $1,400,000 claims expenses, divided by 800,000 remaining insureds, or $1,750 in claims per average insured, or an increase in the average claims amount of 25% (and this assumes that the average remaining pool, which is guaranteed to be older in age–less healthy with higher claims per insured than the previous average–does not increase above the $1,400 per insured average).
Thus, you are now left with 800,000 insured people having to pay enough premiums ($2,500 per insured–or a 25% rate increase) to pay for the same $1,400,000 in claims paid.
Is the concept really that difficult to understand, Mr. President? Surely, if you can grasp “spread the wealth around” understanding “spread the losses around” is not that big of leap?

Forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions without penalizing the insured would be like asking for hurricane insurance after the storm hits. Why have insurance if you can just get it after the fact?

Why have insurance if you can just get it after the fact?
Posted by: ConservativeWoman | Mar 7, 2010 5:17:05 PM
________________________________
You wouldn’t be able to – under the proposed legislation you would be required to have insurance; everybody.

when it is a lead pipe cinch the Supreme Court will strike it down.
__________
Ah, so you have no idea what you’re talking about.
LOL.
Wanna place a wager on that based on precedent? I highly suggest you look up the argument on both sides and the cases mentioned by constitutional lawyers.

A small man in a big office… God help us.

Most men handle adversity well… If you really want to test a man’s character, give him power… – A. Lincoln

Jmo needs to check the math. 80% wouldn’t have to come up with the same total as 100%. The lower number of clients/premiums will lower the amount of claims to be paid out.
The only way your formula works is if the company wants to make the same amount of profit, despite having a lot less customers. That’s why the insurance companies are driving off so many customers by continuing to raise their premiums faster than wages.
The analogy that paying house insurance for 20 years without a claim would make one feel ripped off, doesn’t hold water. What anyone buying insurance is doing is wanting coverage for the ‘what ifs’ in life. If one’s house was destroyed, it would be replace with insurance money. That is what anyone is paying for, knowing what you can’t afford in a disaster is covered, whether a house is destroyed or someone needs expensive medical treatment. I know my house premiums partly went to pay a fellow American who had their house destroyed. There is justice there, can’t you see that? It is the whole idea that is insurance.

Jmo needs to check the math. 80% wouldn’t have to come up with the same total as 100%. The lower number of clients/premiums will lower the amount of claims to be paid out.
Posted by: Lydia
—
The math works extremely well with the scenario. (healthy insureds, remember?)

The only question is (it persists, after the Clinton/Obama primary debate).. how do you enforce .. mandatory insurance.. how do you make the peeps that don’t want to pay premiums.. pay premiums.. this was a big point.. HRC liked a forceful approach.. POTUS liked a less forceful, undefined approach (I assume at this juncture, he would agree with his Sec’y of State).

Obamabongo has turned the USA into an idiocracy.

Adding on to my last post, two things worth reading if you’re serious about understanding the bill: The first is at Maggie Mahar’s Health Beat blog called Peggy Noonan vs.The New England Journal of Medicine– it goes write at Noonan’s column yesterday:
“The reform proposal now being debated in Washington would put a brake on health care inflation. As an eye-opening essay in the most recent (March 4) issue of the New England Journal of Medicine explains, Medicare would, at last, have the power it needs to lead the way, not by cutting benefits, but by restructuring how it does business…..Meanwhile, pundits such as Peggy Noonan feel free to pronounce health care reform “a disaster” and “a colossal waste of time”without giving any indication that she has ever read the legislation.”
I agree and think the same can be said when I read similar comments.
The second piece is the NEJM article by Robert Mechanic and Stuart Altman. which is a grounded piece which carefully analyzes the legislation.

Good comment…
With all due respect, President Obama, which at this point, tragically, is VERY LITTLE, I have three things to say to you about this:
SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.
COSTS. COSTS. COSTS.
JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.
ok, nine things. Get to work, jerk.