Obama Not Worried About “Procedural Rules” like “Deem and Pass” for Health Care

Considering the number of “present” votes he recorded in the Senate, it’s obvious he didn’t care about procedure when he was a Senator either.
In any event, it’s just one more Obama lie. Remember when he claimed he wouldn’t accept healthcare passed on a 51 vote partisan measure?
The voters will remember.

The guy is a dictator!!!

This is the scariest time of my lifetime. I am 68 years old. Never have I seen anything like this. Never thought it could happen here. The dems are dictators all.

This American is done paying for others who collect benefits while I lose everything I have worked for all my life. I’m going to personally refuse to buy this and am planning on going to prison. At least I’ll get care there without waiting and somebody else can pay for it.

Of course the clown isn’t concerned about procedural rules, he’s willing to sell his soul to get this piece of crap passed.

Obama’s contempt for democracy is the scariest thing I have seen in my lifetime.
I now feel like a fool for voting for the guy. I really thought he’d govern from the center and “change the tone”. Now it looks like people weren’t overreacting to those Soviet-style campaign posters after all.

Remember who he is people. This was a student of Sal Alinsky — Do whatever it takes and the ends justify the means.
I can’t wait till the exact minute Obama leaves the White House.

If the government persists in acting in an unconstitutional manner is it still a legitimate government?Beware-the next step will be to pack the Supreme Court!

Why did I vote for him? Ian, you’re right man, I was wrong. Dems need to leave this one alone. It will be their downfall

I’m going to deem my tax return as sent in.

And back we go to what the definition of “is” is, but now we can define a vote? PRICELESS! Avote is a vote unless its deemed as so and not actually voted on. What is this the FDA?

Of course Obama doesn’t worry about it. Why should he? He seems to not have a problem with going against public opinion. At this point I think there could a 100% of the population against, and he would still ram it through. It’s not about what we the people want. It’s about what papa Obama thinks we need whether or not we like it. Nothing will get Fearless Leader to change his mind.

I am going to deem that I have a refund on the tax return that I deemed was sent in.

Is this why many are calling the U.S. an “obamanation”?? …in the worst case!

Obama “doesn’t worry about procedural rules in the House or Senate.” Well, that’s pretty clear.
But, wasn’t this guy supposed to be some sort of genius constitutional lawyer?
What a disappointment, right?

If you believe the ends justify the means, the American people will find the means to end you (electorally).

The president said that the bill is “going to be posted” – and everybody’s going to be able to evaluate it on its merits – by the time the vote has taken place?
Didn’t Nancy say something just as stupid a week or so ago?
Good Gawd. We just got rid of Bush now this for a year no less. I just want to work and take care of my family, that’s it. You want my family to go without because of other’s life decisions or want anything more than what I have been contributing to society my entire life? Game on……

pelosi has said we have to pass the bill to know what is in it. I guess she doesn’t know how to read. The end justifies the means. If the Republicans pulled the liberal media would be howling but if it Dems doing it is is ok. Chicago style politics at its best. Of course the bill is bad full of special deals which Obama defends including a payoff to unions, and it will not reduce costs. No social program has ever stayed within budgets estimates. I can only hope there are some Dems with soem backbone to oppose this outlandish bill.

And the media can’t say anything and admit that the guy they campaigned for last year is an empty suit. They can’t admit that. So he owns them or else they’d never be able to ‘comment’ again on a candidate. Olbermann, Matthews still have the Obama colored glasses on and are still getting a thrill up and down their legs. Our media is pretty sad. They have forfeited their ability to be a check on power.

Lies. Corruption. Tyranny. Wake up, people.

yeah, no point in worrying about the constitution. It’s just a proceedural process. No need to wory about the law. What an ####

Why not fix what is already broken, like ““We’re still going to have to fix Medicare over the long term,” he said. ” If Medicare needs fixing, why not focus on medicare first and use that as an example of what the gov’t can do correctly.
Wake up America!!!!! I’m afraid our days are numbered, if we don’t stand up for what we believe is best for America!

Yes, “people really thought he meant this.” He said it over and over. Why people wanted “this” is beyond me.

My father is on Dialysis and Medicare or medicaid is only paying 15% of the bill and the hospital is writing off the rest. If the gov’t is only paying 15% of their bills, while my insurance is paying 80%, I ask America who is the bad guys? My father flies to the Mayo Clinic once a year, thanks to Angel flight. His former employer dropped his insurance, once he became eligible for medicare and medicaid. On a $2300 bill, the gov’t paid a little over $300. The Mayo clinic in Arizona has already dropped medicaid and I’m sure Mayo clinic in Minnesotta will do the same soon. Once they do, my father will no longer be able to receive their treatment. He has Multiple Myeloma.

The guy has gone on record as stating the Consitution is a document of negative liberties in that it defines what the government cannot do instead of what it should do for that individual.
The deals he has arranged to buy votes in favor of the bill are nothing more than Chicago politics. He is continuing to follow his beloved “Rules for Radicals” in causing a crisis where complete government control is the ultimate result.

Obama was an arrogant bully to Bret. I felt like junmping into my screen and punching the SOB. God help America.

Steve- You must be blind to keep defending this party which is walking over the Constitution. You actually believe that this bill will reduce costs and bring healthcare to the massses and make it affordable? And who will pay for this. How much debt will China buy ? This bill will bankrupt this nation. And for the next 4 years what do those 30milllion do who you want to help becuase none of them are insured for 4 years. Pelosi said we have to pass the bill to see what is in it. You approve of that.You approve of back room deals for Senators of some states and not others. You approve of exemptions for unions. You approve of the medicare cuts that will affect the neediest of patients. Mayo CLINIC IN aRIZONIA has already they will drop medicare patients. And for the budget gimmicks to make this bill defifict nuetral. You should read Paul Ryans rebuttal to Obama at the simmit. No social program has ever stayed with the estimated budget. And now because the voters don’t want this bill, Pelosi is going to slip it in under the cover of another bill. This bill and the process stinks and that is why the voters are upset.

Whoa, calm down, guy! You seem very angry that someone could see the large increase in health care costs relative to consumer-price inflation since Medicare and the HMO act, look at the “solutions” and the real incentives contained in this bill, and reach a different conclusion that they advocate with as much passion as this bill’s proponents. Social Security and federal and state Medicare programs have gotten us into serious trouble that economists saw coming since before they were passed- how is this bill any different?

THANKS BRET! To Diane Sawyer, Brian Williams, George Stephanopoulos and Katie Couric. Finally, a news anchor lives up to his historical responsibility to safeguard our freedoms by holding this President accountable by asking (his) tough questions and follow up on evasion and obvious equivocation. You should all be ashamed. Bret’s interview underscores that you are all untrustworthy and have made yourselves irrelevant.

Why worry about procedure, like the constitution?
Weren’t Barry Hussein Obama, jr. and Joe Biden both touted as constitutional attorneys?–and yet he doesn’t know that the Constitution requires voting on a bill in order for it to pass?
I know they don’t read the bills, but they should be required to vote on them!

This is the first blog that mentioned Obama’s reference to Hawaii going through an earthquake.
Did he mean Haiti, and think that is part of America? Perhaps Chile?
When was the earthquake in Hawaii that needs special consideration in the health care bill??

“Curiously he said that same provision would affect Hawaii, which he said “went through an earthquake.”
I believe the earthquake to which The One refers took place in late 2006 (I believe it was October). Electricity went out, some flights delayed. I don’t remember any lasting damage (I used to live there). Obama simply covering his tracks for when Hawaii gets its share of “Obama’s Stash”…
p.s. Great job by Baier. The Great Communicator with the Even Temperament became flustered at times, attempted to filibuster his answers at others (for which Baier called him out) and was overall very unimpressive and unconvincing.

Obamas coment about someone who lost their home or filed bankruptcy because of medical bills makes me try to think of someone in my life that I know who had that happen nope I can not and I am 57 years old. I quess just another obama tale

Okay Ross, let’s get something straight- the greatest number of millionaires in Congress are in the Democrat party. So knock off the “class envy” approach to politics. The fact is, that billion dollar healthcare firms,big pharma, insurance companies you villify– all of them support this monster of a bill. The purpose of the bill is first to tax the crap out of all kinds of things,which will go into GENERAL REVENUE(look it up, same as Social Security bright boy)and NEVER be applied to finance any part of the cradle to grave benefits guaranteed to 30 to 40 new mandated enrollees who were never in the ledger. These would include illegal aliens who now would get all kinds of care all the time, and of course be leveraged even more by long time participants in the private system. Since coverage is mandatory,and no refusal of treatment allowed, even for pre-existing conditions premiums will scream upwards, private insurance will disappear and you will have your medical decisions decided by idiot bureaucrats who will decide your worth, and the IRS will be the POLICE to enforce your premium payment. The method to control every part of our lives, the food we eat, the water we drink, the energy we use, and whether we have a right to keep and bear arms against all enemies foreign, AND DOMESTIC will be linked to the encompassing “healthcare” power grab. Surprise- Americans will not take part in this. There are not enough prisons to hold us, and we will not give up our rights. By the way, health care is not a right- it is LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT (not guarantee) of HAPPINESS. This is Fascism- which is the same whether Left or Right. Go peddle your socialist crap somewhere else. In case you didn’t know, Obama was put in office by illegal FOREIGN firms– the same way he got a spot at Harvard and graduated. Bush took a great deal of care to protect rights even as Obama’s cousins the muzzies continued to work their evil on our freedoms. Keep your union job- what is it- janitor or AFSCME or ACORN or what service sector. Or maybe you’re a GM union guy at $75 an hour and guaranteed lifetime healthcare– which Obama HAS to make sure you get so your own union won’t go broke with your dues at their country club. Get real. People are well informed on your bogus arguments. This bill is poison to what America is all about— and Democrats know it, and Obama is a Marxist, pure and simple.

Before a General sends his troops into battle , if he is smart he Studies his Enemy, to better understand him. To learn his weakness, to destroy him with the least amount of effort.
I give you…”The Constitutional Lawyer”

IT’S STARTING: REGIONAL WALGREENS SAYS ‘NO NEW MEDICAID’ PATIENTS AS OF APRIL 16…
Obama VS America

Obama is a lier….he was quoted sos many times that he was not for this procedure and now he is? What a joker!!

IF this passes, and there is a challenge to the supreme court as to the legitimacy of his ‘pet’ project, how sorry is the president going to be about calling them out at the State of the Union address??? Payback time?

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Obama Endorses ‘Slaughter Solution’.
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Is that the same as endorsing the ‘Final Solution’ ???
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Maybe that explains Obama demanding the Israelis stop building houses in an area Obama already agreed they could build in – the portion of their own capital even the Palestinian negotiators identified as part of Israel.
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Obama will do anything to win.
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We all should think long and hard on the implications of that.
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I watched the FOX interview to see if they handled Obama differently than ABC,CBS or NBC. It was like night and day! I have never seen Bret Baier interview anyone before, but he was excellent. Obama kept trying to avoid answering the questions, but Mr Baier kept repeating them instead of letting Obama filibuster.

Well if the people don’t care about the process arguing essentially that the ends justify the means then why are they DEEMocrats so upset about waterboarding? Hopefully no one brings that point up to Pelosi or anyone in the House planning to vote no will get a heck of a lot of water up their nose. Don’t give her any ideas.

“This is the first blog that mentioned Obama’s reference to Hawaii going through an earthquake.
Did he mean Haiti, and think that is part of America? Perhaps Chile?”
Geez, don’t you know nuthin’? Haiti and Chile are two of the 57 states where he was campaigning in 2008. Not only is this momo ignorant of the makeup of the country he purportedly leads; he, as a Constitutional lawyer, doesn’t understand the uncontitutionality of the Slaughter Rule.

I watched the FOX interview to see if they handled Obama differently than ABC,CBS or NBC. It was like night and day! I have never seen Bret Baier interview anyone before, but he was excellent. Obama kept trying to avoid answering the questions, but Mr Baier kept repeating them instead of letting Obama filibuster.
Posted by: whathappened08
—————————————-
The videos of the interview are going up everywhere.. be sure to post links to them.. The left wing extremist at ABC CBS and NBC all use the same word “contenious” in describing the Fox interview…so they will be trying to sheild Obama.. but the people are going to see what a snakeoil salesman, they have for a President
Obama VS America

Rules, constitution… just obstructions that keep Pelosi, Reid and Obama from doing what they think is best for us! Forget the rules and just OBEY!

“Does this mean we can look forward to Pelosi “Deeming all Democrats Re Elected” this coming November without actually going countinto the trouble of actually counting the Votes of American Citzens ???”
Oh my, you’re going to absolutely terrify the corporate peons with hypothesis like this.

“The left wing extremist at ABC CBS and NBC all use the same word “contenious” in describing the Fox interview…so they will be trying to sheild Obama.. but the people are going to see what a snakeoil salesman, they have for a President
Obama VS America
——————
As if FOX is really “fair and balanced” while the major networks are not.
Obama VS corporate America and their peons

Obama Not Worried About “Procedural Rules” like “Deem and Pass”
Dictators don’t worry about things like that.

If anyone has a chance, compare the entire interview of oBama by Bret, then compare the recent Sunday morning interview by Jake of David Axelrod. What a difference. Its flat out embarrassing. Come on ABC… grow a spine!

Pay no attention to the process behind the curtain. — Wizard of Oops

I really do not understand why so many think that The One is soooo intelligent. It seems every time this political hack is off teleprompter he says something stupid: “I don’t know what happened, but the Cambridge Police acted stupidly”, “when you spread the wealth around it’s good for everybody”, “57 states”, “premiums will be reduced 3,000%”, “you probably have a saying in Austrian”, “cinco de cuatro” (meaning to say “cinco de Mayo), “profits-to-earnings ratios”, etc.
—————-
That’s a cute little list you’ve got going there. It is difficult to speak publicly so often without making any mistakes….may I remind you they made whole calendars of Bush gaffes. I would say he was more intelligent than most right-wingers.

Why did the White Wouse whose personnel were obviously controlling the video and audio feed and the staging for this interview, find it necessary to so obviously enhance the audio to give Mr. Obama’s voice a god-like quality? Why did Fox agree to go along with this ruse? Are the poeple really fooled by this sort of artifice? Talk about the wizard!

Well it’s convenient for right-wing statistical historians that Bush and Republican policies crashed the economy right before he left office so the attempt can be made to blame much of the mess that was left over on his successor. Let’s not forget that most economists maintain you cannot cut spending during a financial crisis without risking worsening it, so Obama’s options were restricted. Once the economy improves and if we can successfully get out of Iraq then we will see if Obama cuts spending, balances the budget, allows the Bush tax cuts to expire and tries to pay down the debt. Until then the deficits and the debt are directly linked back to Bush.

Skip: Did you do a poll of ‘most economists” What was the actual breakdown?
B/c most economist agree w/ CEA chair Christine Romer, who wrote in September 2008 that the best policy for the economy would be cutting tax rates across the board.
And BTW, I’m a PhD Economist.

How can we cut tax rates across the board without running up even more deficits? If you’re really a PhD maybe you can explain how we can have it both ways.

Nice try at misdirection, Skippy.
Question was, did you take a poll of ‘most economists”
And if you want to disagree w/ the CEA chief that Obama picked, you’re free to do so. But most economist would trade all that wasted spending for a smaller amount of tax cuts, if the goal was to get the economy going rather than giving tax $s to cronies.

Bret took every so called journalist on television to the woodshed tonight. And that includes Bill O’Reilly.

“Once the economy improves and if we can successfully get out of Iraq then we will see if Obama cuts spending, balances the budget, allows the Bush tax cuts to expire and tries to pay down the debt. Until then the deficits and the debt are directly linked back to Bush.”
Trillion dollar annual deficits are projected (based on Obama’s budgets) through 2020. Are you implying that we will still be in Iraq then and the economy will still be in bad shape? Obama will NOT cut spending nor balance the budget because, well, he is a Leftist and Leftists do not believe in cutting spending (see the news out of NJ today or Greece last week?).
Obama will be remembered as a president who came to office in dire economic circumstances who then proceeded to make the problem worse. No doubt about it – His (and, more fairly, the Democratic Congress) deficits/rampant spending are unsustainable.

“How can we cut tax rates across the board without running up even more deficits?”
Leftists can never grasp that there are two factors which dictate government surpluses/deficits. One is level of taxes. The other is spending. Leftists are always quick to point out “we can’t cut taxes without incurring more deficits” without even considering that CUTTING SPENDING is even an option. It just never occurs to them. Amazing.

So what President Obama is saying is
the ends justify the means!
If you have to suspend the
constitution to pass his Healthcare
Bill so be it!
Quite a statement and an excellent
interview by Bret Baier.
He didn’t let the president evade his
questions with long speeches and
non-answers.
O’Reilly would be too busy giving the
president “the benefit of the doubt”
to be as persistent and probing as
Baier!

“…without even considering that CUTTING SPENDING is even an option. It just never occurs to them. Amazing”
—————————
…you cannot cut spending during a financial crisis without risking worsening it…
That qualifies as occurring to them in case you weren’t paying attention

If you have to suspend the
constitution to pass his Healthcare
Bill so be it!
__________________________________
Again, more nonsense. Anything passed will be passed by legislative rule of law.

“You would think a real economist with a real PhD and everything would actually read Christina and David Romer’s paper which is online and not just paraphrase what the conservative and Republican bloggers and echo chamber claimed about it (as well as some in our absolutely LAME media), wouldn’t you?”
That would be asking an awful lot. So you’re saying Grabski was characterizing Christine Romer’s position on this issue incorrectly? -imagine my surprise.

Obama and Pelosi do not respect the will of the people, the constitution, or democracy. The republicans opened the door to this abuse of the rules and should have been held to account by us then. This bill has many unconstitutional provisions in it as well. If it allowed to “pass” we should first (immediately) fight it in the supreme court. If neccessary, we should all file class action lawsuits. If we continue to allow this abuse it will harm us all.If you want to know more of what is really in this monstrosity of a bill google “little gems from the health care bill” or “what the Pelosi health-care bill really says” or even try “What’s really in Obama’s health care bill-a plain english translation”.
You will be shocked.(do not listen to what they say watch very carefully what they do”……

That would be asking an awful lot. So you’re saying Grabski was characterizing Christine Romer’s position on this issue incorrectly? -imagine my surprise.
Posted by: Skip | Mar 18, 2010 12:06:42 AM
Yes, though in fairness it was yet another thing that went around the conservative blogosphere as well as the WSJ. Clearly, reporters and bloggers that didn’t read the paper read the misinformation– or snippet out of full context– and passed it around. Actual economists with PhD’s and everything blogged about it back and forth for a week– so I read the actual paper to make sure I wasn’t simply buying ideological spin. Now, I’m not an economist by any stretch of the imagination but even I could see that it was another example of our current news reporting and cycle lacking investigative substance and depth of understanding.
Everything has to be fact-checked nowadays.
Its unsurprising that those with a so-called conservative ideology, and the neocons and Republicans and others on the right that all travel the same circles when it comes to media, are so misinformed. They just look for anything that they can be contrary about and throw it in their disinformation stew, somehow getting validation from that. If it fits their ideology they rarely fact check it.

If neccessary, we should all file class action lawsuits.
_________
thank you Michelle Bachmann, but many of us support passage of the legislation and further improvements as we proceed toward doing the right thing for our citizens.

It just never occurs to them. Amazing.
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 17, 2010 11:44:44 PM
I think by “them” you mean Republicans in Congress, unless hypocrisy is a specialty of yours. See the OO’s.
Its pretty hypocritical to call out the Dems when Reagan, Bush and Bush all added to the deficit and the Republicans in Congress didn’t match tax cuts to spending cuts, don’t ya think?
Get real, dude.

“If it fits their ideology they rarely fact check it”
I’d go so far as to allege that for most right-wingers fact checking is completely superfluous.

I wan’ pai! Texas was hit by Ike and we did not get our votes bought! Hawaii gets pai for an earthquake they did not even have!

Posted by: Nephron | Mar 18, 2010 12:38:43 AM
I agree he looked annoyed and I didn’t blame him one bit. One thing I like about Obama is that he is my opposite in temperament. I’m very hot-tempered and I would have called out the smug doofus.
As for the earthquake quip, did you honestly not understand it? I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to brain power and figure you’re just parroting the Obama-bashers at conservative blogs and elsewhere for hyperpartisan reasons.
If not, if you’re serious, then look up what happened in Hawaii on October 15, 2006 and Bush’s response and get back to me.

Stupid jackasses … defending this maneuver by the Democrats by arguing that Republicans have already used it (to address the debt limit, not a massive social program).
Do two wrongs make a right?
What if the Republicans were wrong for using the “deem and pass” maneuver to raise the debt limit and the Democrats would be wrong to do the same for the largest expansion of government in world history? Both wrong.
FYI, our health care system as a whole is larger than the GDP of any individual country in the G8. Look it up. Worthy of an actual VOTE or an arcane (and unconstitutional) parliamentary gimmick?
Read Article 1, Section 7, then use your brain.

Health bill has become big political issue in America Democracy for vote bank i think.

tierra,
You suggested we go and “research” what he said?
Why waste a second… he lies every time his lips move, and SERIOUSLY lies whenever those lips are flappin’ in front of a camera.
Even the SIGHT of him makes me physically ill, so I have NO interest in reading his crap.
I’ll leave that to those of you who voted for him based on his (LOL) qualifications… that obviously being ONLY the color of his skin, as he has NEVER demonstrated even a SHRED of leadership ability, much less intellect.
At least he still has the qualifications YOU deem most important.
229 more days… get that LAME DUCK sign ready.

there was an earthquake in 2006; my family was living there at the time. no one was hurt and the damage was negligible. so, the comparison is indeed, curious.

It would not be surprising to see Pelosi rewrite this bill after it’s deemed passed, add Cap and Trade and amenesty and “deem” it the same as the Senate bill.
Democrats are fatally corrupt.

“The president said that the bill is “going to be posted” – and everybody’s going to be able to evaluate it on its merits – by the time the vote has taken place.”
After they promised to have it posted for 72 hours before the vote. It’s got to be easy being a Democrat. You need no conscience and no memory.

“Again, more nonsense. Anything passed will be passed by legislative rule of law.” – tierra
tierra, I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but with naive statements like the one above you sure are making it hard on me.
Just because Congress writes some of their own rules of procedure doesn’t mean that they are constitutionally legal. It doesn’t mean they are even right or just.
You would do better in life with just a little bit of healthy skepticism, especially for the lefty spin.

there was an earthquake in 2006;
Posted by: kelli
—
Let’s be fair to the man. He had to be recalling that MASSIVE tidal wave that just hit Hawaii. It was triggered by a quake (somewhere). Or global warming. Or Al Gore’s light bill. Or something.
After being fair to him it is time he is honest to those of us with, according to obammma, “legitimate concerns on (about) the substance” of this disaster.

Why be concerned about procedure and let a little thing like the Constitution get in the way????

“It was said that there were billions — millions of dollars going to Louisiana, this was a special deal. Well, in fact, that provision, which I think should remain in, said that if a state has been affected by a natural catastrophe, that has created a special health care emergency in that state, they should get help. Louisiana, obviously, went through Katrina . . . . .” – President Obama during the Baier Interview
Let’s see, Hurricane Katrina was in 2005, 5 years ago and they are still dealing with the aftermath of that. True, but I kinda think the “Health Care Emergency” is over. Now they may have some ongoing Health Care Problems. If there was still an Emergency wouldn’t you think NoBo would have acted a little sooner and not waited 15 months and tie up the help in this protracted Health Care Issue?
Gee, South Florida went through Andrew in 1992, I wonder if that State can get some money to deal with their Health Care Emergency.

Bret Baier had and has a far better understanding of “Obama Care” than Obama has. Obama hasn’t done any “work” on the actual Bill, has little idea of what’s in it or what it would cost. His approach to this interview….much like every other such event, including the ridiculous event at the Blair House, is to stick to the talking points prepared for him, and to blabber on endlessly (insuring that he is on camera and no one else can consume any of the alloted time with matters of substance). In the event someone can interject a meaningful issue or a dreaded question of substance, Obama’s response is inevitably to focus his nostrils on the interloper and respond with semi-irritated condensation. Shallow, conceited and pompous, he actually has nothing to say and says it….at great length.

Posted by: Truth has a liberal bias | Mar 18, 2010 1:16:05 AM
“As it turns out, Bush’s policies account for 40% of the deficit, the economic turndown for 20%, financial rescues begun by Bush and his admin, 12% and Obama’s policies 16%. (Ettlinger and Linden).”
Based on Obama’s budgets, trillion dollar annual deficits are projected through at least 2020. Also “Bush Did It!” I suppose?
Bush’s greatest failure in my mind was his profligate spending. Given it has taken Obama and the Democrats just over 1 year to reach $2 trillion in debt (it took Bush 4 years – before you say “well, Barack inherited this mess!” remember that Bush experienced a recession (along with economic impact of 9/11) early in his administration) you can understand why I’m not in the Obama Fan Club. I am not a Republican, never voted for Bush, and am apoplectic about what Washington DC (looking at you Democrats – you run the town) is doing to this country.
“I don’t buy that the GOP has suddenly become a party of born again deficit virgins. It’ll last only as long as the Dems are in power.”
I think they’ve learned their lesson. If not they will (rightfully) be voted out.
BTW – The “Hawaii Earthquake” you reference to defend your Messiah (October 2006) caused power outages and flight delays, everything back to status quo within 24 hours. There were no widespread lasting effects (I was living there at the time). Yet another example of knee-jerk reaction to defend The One without verifying facts or any critical thinking.

“I think should remain in, said that if a state has been affected by a natural catastrophe, that has created a special health care emergency in that state, they should get help. Louisiana, obviously, went through Katrina….”
What about Alabama and Mississippi?
This sort of thinking is a slippery slope. What are disaster refief funds supposed to be used for?

” What are disaster refief funds supposed to be used for?” – tjp612
Ah, . . . junkets to Vegas and Hawaii for politicians to
figure out how to help people suffering from a disaster?
Did I get it right?
Do I win a cookie?

Yet another example of knee-jerk reaction to defend The One without verifying facts or any critical thinking.
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 8:27:35 AM
And yet you’re the one with the knee jerk reactions and calling the President “The One” as a way to dismiss those who support him. Many on the Right defend, defend, defend, defend the indefensible because they think/wish that maybe perhaps hopefully the Republicans have learned their lesson. After all Fox and Hot Air seems to think so.Never mind an unnecessary and for many years mismanaged war of aggression that squandered and lost billions of money, the growth of government under Republican presidents or the big civil liberties abuses, or the politicization of the DOJ and rampant corruption of the Interior Dept, nor the backwards view of science, etc. Hey, at least you can admit– barely– that the fiscal policy was irresponsible, right? No spot on your hand. Never mind that you’re going to vote in all the same suspects.
Amusing, in a way. Not so much in others.
If you’re repeatedly in common cause and condoning the Republicans and set to vote in more Republicans despite their lack of ideas, racism, dumbing down on policy and scorched earth tactics, then, frankly you may as well be one no matter how you self-identify to clear your conscience. If it walks, quacks and swims like one (and is fluent in ‘repuglicon speak’)… etc.
As for living in Hawaii during the Earthquake, its interesting that you didn’t read any newspapers as to the damage done in certain areas. Might want to read up on that to improve your hindsight. Ignoring the impact on the tourism industry or the damage to various parts of infrastructure doesn’t surprise me but it also doesn’t make your argument for you. I know the Republican meme is “if it didn’t inconvenience me– at least longer than some of the power outages, that many complained about but whatever- then all is well)… but normal people are able to think long range and assess the big picture.

Posted by: Truth has a liberal bias | Mar 18, 2010 9:24:31 AM
You seem a little irritated and frustrated and grasping for facts…reminds me of a certain U.S. president I saw on Fox News last night…
“its interesting that you didn’t read any newspapers as to the damage done in certain areas. Might want to read up on that to improve your hindsight. Ignoring the impact on the tourism industry or the damage to various parts of infrastructure doesn’t surprise me but it also doesn’t make your argument for you.”
a.) Didn’t need to read the newspaper, I was living there!
b.) I was on an assignment there for 15 months and traveled THROUGHOUT the islands during this time (at least one trip a month somewhere beyond Oahu). No lasting impact. But let’s go with your account of events since it better fits your narrative!

Democrats argue that the federal government can manage health care more efficiently than a vibrant PRIVATE SECTOR health care economy.
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You consider the current health insurance industry *vibrant*???? Innovative???
hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
As for health care– you also seem to consider the most expensive care in the world vibrant despite rampant medical error and overtutilization issues, the fee for service payment schedule, the gap between the care provided to the wealthy and the care provided to those who aren’t. Have you read the Amnesty International report on how many deaths are related to giving birth in this country?
Besides all that you falsely claim that Democrats in lockstep advocate some sort of government takeover of health care versus regulation on the payor system and pilot programs to test ideas for bending the cost curve when it comes to medical inflation. Might want to actually read up on the legislation that will be passed.

You seem a little irritated and frustrated and grasping for facts…
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Thanks for trying desperately to weigh in on my feelings but your fantasies are neither here nor there. Got anything concrete?
Oh… never mind. I see. You don’t even read newspapers.
’nuff said.
Anybody that was complaining about anecdotitis when Dems engage in it want to weigh in on how little anecdotal evidence from an anonymous commenter means?
No? What a surprise that consistency isn’t a strong suit.

Preview on the CBO score from Ezra Klein (WaPo):
“The bill will cost $940 billion over the first 10 years and reduce the deficit by $130 billion during that period. In the second 10 years — so, 2020 to 2029 — it will reduce the deficit by $1.2 trillion. The legislation will cover 32 million Americans, or 95 percent of the legal population.
To put this in context, that’s more deficit reduction than either the House or Senate bill, and more coverage than the Senate bill.”
Let the desperate rhetoric from the Republicons begin.

we’ll ignore for the time being the study published in the New England Journal of Medicine
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Let’s stop right there since it was a study by a physician search firm out of Texas called Medicus, I think. NOT the NEJM. NEJM Basically you’re repeating a press release from a firm with a vested interest in claiming there’s a scarce market for doctors because then they are uniquely able to help.
Fact check is your friend.
This was discussed on a thread here as well. This kind of thing lends credence to the left’s notion that the right really is very ill-informed. Perhaps you didn’t know. Check it out. Go to the NEJM. While you’re there, read some of the articles in relation to the Medicare commission, pilot programs, the bill.
As for primary care physicians, two things– the bill will be phased in gradually so as to not flood the infrastructure. Second, read Bernie Sander’s amendment which is a start in the right direction in regard to physicans. There are a lot of possibilities. If you stop throwing out out talking points from ultrapartisan sources, I’ll engage in a more serious discussion. But I would actually try reading the NEJM on that issue– and reading Bernie Sanders amendment– first so we have a solid place to begin the conversation.

I sense the same frustration and evasiveness.
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 9:55:34 AM
Hahahahahahaha. Why am I not surprised that you’re still engaged in fantasies about my feelings? And putting “sensing” and special magical ESP over thought?
If you’re really stumped and not feigning it so you can continue to chat about my feelings. check out the post at Mar 11, 2010 8:12:51 AM on the “Ohio Woman who wrote President” thread.
Back on topic, isn’t the CBO score preview great?
:^)

“…(try) reading Bernie Sanders amendment– first so we have a solid place to begin the conversation.”
Are you kidding? You are asking me to take cues from a self-proclaimed socialist on this topic?
I’m willing to be open-minded, but you have to throw me some rope out here…

“Back on topic, isn’t the CBO score preview great?”
The CBO can only score what is placed in front of them. Do you really believe that Congress (regardless of party) will vote to cut $500 billion in Medicare benefits (leaving aside the fact that these so-called “savings” are anything but), tax revenues (and economic growth) will meet projections, etc.? Congress has kicked the “doc fix” can down the road for years, same will happen w.r.t. Medicare cuts. It will never happen.
BTW, before you tout the accuracy of CBO projections, do some research on how badly they projected the costs of Medicaid and Social Security (you seemed to be informed, you probably already know how badly off these projections have been).

In related news…
The Massachusetts treasurer said Tuesday that Congress will “threaten to wipe out the American economy within four years” if it adopts a health-care overhaul modeled after the Bay State’s.
Treasurer Timothy P. Cahill – a former Democrat running as an independent for governor – said the local plan enacted in 2006 has succeeded only because of huge subsidies and favorable regulatory changes from the federal government.
“Who, exactly, is going to bail out the federal government if this plan goes national?” he asked.
Cahill made his remarks after Gov. Deval L. Patrick, a Democrat, accused him and Republican gubernatorial candidate Charles D. Baker of being silent amid the state and national health care debates.
Cahill cited quotations in which he has called for the state to abandon its plan, and for the federal government not to match it.
He also gave reporters a copy of a recent state ledger sheet, showing the state’s Medicaid program ballooning from $7.5 billion to a projected $9.2 billion since the plan was adopted. Meanwhile, of the 407,000 newly insured, only 32 percent paid for private insurance wholly by themselves.
The remainder have received partial or total taxpayer subsidies to buy the insurance coverage required by the plan.
The Obama administration is asking the House and Senate to approve a national plan that includes a similar “individual mandate,” as well as an entity designed to match buyers with private health insurance plans.
Cahill said the Massachusetts equivalent, the Connector, had assisted only 5 percent of those who bought private insurance without any type of government assistance.
And he said that while the Massachusetts program has increased access to health insurance, IT HAS DONE NOTHING TO REIN IN THE UNDERLYING COST INCREASES, meaning it is steering more people to a broken system.
“If President (Barack) Obama and the Democrats repeat the mistake of the health insurance reform adopted here in Massachusetts on a national level, they will threaten to wipe out the American economy within four years,” the treasurer said.
===================================
A preview of the future if this disastrous legislation passes.

Bernie Sanders. ‘Nuff said.
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 10:28:00 AM
I suppose I should also point out that the amendment is part of the legislation that will be passed and it deals with the question you ask.

“I suppose I should also point out that the amendment is part of the legislation that will be passed and it deals with the question you ask.”
At a high level, my understanding is that Bernie Sanders advocated more funding of community clinics. I’ll take the leap that medical students will be reimbursed for their medical tuition expenses if they intern/practice at these clinics. This would seem to make sense and I would be an advocate of such an approach – which, if access was the driver for this legislation (as it was at the beginning of this year-long march which has now morphed into demonization of the insurance industry) it would make sense.
But, this assumes that would-be medical students would see medicine as an attractive career choice. This will not be the case if this legislation is passed. Why would otherwise talented individuals go into an industry with such a degree of govt. heavy-handedness? Sure, there will be those who have “a calling” and specialists will not be impacted to the same degree primary care physicians will be, but why bother?

Isn’t it funny that whatever methods the democrats use to pass a bill like reconcilliation, etc. the republicans say “unconstitutional.” How can it be unconstitutional for democrats but not for republicans? They are trying nothing new just the same old stuff which was used by republicans to get things done. As for back door deals, this has been going on since Adams. Deals were made then and have continued since. That is how Washington gets things done. Nothing new, nothing innovative. Do they think people do not realize or remember the deals that were done during their administration? I’d like to know what deals were done to convince people to go to war in Iraq. It was Cheney who pushed for this war and don’t tell me he did not have a motive for this war. I never saw such poor losers and I have seen many elections. This republican party would rather let four years pass with nothing done than to work together for the people who put them there. As for the so called interview with Fox yesterday, it was a sham. The guy would ask a question and as President Obama tried to answer he would interrupt him. If I had been Obama I would have walked out but he is a gentleman and came out the winner for putting up with that moron who probably took his interviewing skills from Hannity. That is his method if you don’t agree with him, he interrupts you and says what he wants to say and does not let anyone speak. Typical for Fox and that is why most people do not call them a news station. When the president of this station can go on This Week and say he knows some things are not truthful but he does not care as his ratings are up and that’s all he cares about. Most people listen not because they agree but some just want to see just how ridiculous they really get. Unfortunately,it does push up their ratings but it does not make they any more creditable.

“you really ought to be a comedian, though you might not know how hilarious you truly are.”
More deflection… How about answering the question: Does this legislation address the projected shortage of more primary care physicians that will occur due to increased demand?
(please no Bernie Sanders references – that is a sideshow)
On another note, given the contentiousness and bitter partisanship of this legislation, is it really in the country’s best interest to move this legislation forward? IF this legislation passes, this will not be the end of this discussion…it will be the BEGINNING of a discussion that will drag on for decades to come and will further consume legislative (and judicial) time and resources at a time when we have other issues that require attention (unemployment, the economy, the deficit, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, China, Venezuela, our miserable education system, etc., etc.)

Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 11:04:19 AM
Not reading the legislation and the amendments that address your concern is a deflection. Moreover, its not my job to answer your questions if you’re not willing to get informed and read what you want to discuss.
Meanwhile, Jed Lewison notes: “On Tuesday and Wednesday, Fox breathlessly promoted what it claims to be a new survey from the New England Journal of Medicine showing doctors oppose health care reform, but there’s a problem: the non-scientific survey was conducted months ago, was not published in the NEJM, and, according to a spokesperson for the journal, it has “nothing to do with the New England Journal of Medicine’s original research.” (Jed Lewison: “Fox caught, again”)
There’s a compilation at his blog.

Even Dems are getting nauseous at the “whatever it takes” approach from their leadership:
—Even one of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s floor whips, U.S. Rep. Stephen Lynch, says a proposed parliamentary move to pass health-care reform would be “disingenuous” and harm the credibility of Congress.
In a sign of how tough it’s been for Pelosi to round up votes for the massive bill, Lynch – a South Boston Democrat who supported a House reform package last year – said he’ll probably vote against a key Senate version of the legislation, unless unexpected major changes are made soon.
Lynch, who serves as one of Pelosi’s key vote counters, said he also can’t support a proposed “deem and pass” procedure that would allow Democrats to vote to strip out controversial portions of the Senate bill and then “deem” that the entire package has passed without a second, direct vote.
“It’s disingenuous,” said Lynch, who considers unfair a Senate provision to tack a surcharge on higher-end health plans. “It would really call into question the credibility of the House.”—

Posted by: HealthCare Redistribution Czar | Mar 18, 2010 11:07:43 AM
Cry me a river, P. Ryan. Puh-lease. He’s getting testy because the Dems are sharing their preview of the score.
Does he not understand the meaning of the word preview?
CBO will release its analysis today, hence the numbers will be confirmed, and the legislation will be posted on 72 hours.

Deem and Pass = Demon Pass.
(Bloomberg) — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi may be creating new grounds for a court challenge to the proposed U.S. health-care overhaul as she considers using a mechanism that would avoid a vote on the full legislation.
Pelosi said this week she might use a parliamentary technique that would “deem” House members to have passed the Senate’s health-care plan by voting for a more politically palatable package of changes.
Some legal scholars question whether that approach can be squared with the Constitution and the Supreme Court’s 1998 declaration that the two houses of Congress must approve “precisely the same text” before a bill can become a law.
“Any process that does not result in the House taking of yays and nays on statutory text identical to what passed the Senate is constitutionally problematic,” said Jonathan Adler, a professor who runs the Center for Business Law & Regulation at Case Western Reserve University’s law school in Cleveland.—

I thought I’d reached the limit with all the lies, exaggerations, and distortions I’ve heard on HCR over the last year. But, I was wrong. Obama drove me to new limits when he said on Fox yesterday that he (basically) didn’t care about the prcoess. Let’s think back to 2003 when Bush said basically the same thing. He lied/tricked us into Iraq, thinking that we have short memories and wouldn’t care about the “process” once we were at war. This made Bush the most hated man in america and almost destroyed his Party. Obama is making EXACTLY the same mistake here. An overwhelming majority of voters do NOT want this bill and if they percieve (key word!) that they’ve been tricked/lied into it, the fallout will be NUCLEAR!

“The legislation is fully paid for, reduces the deficit in this decade, and even more in the next decade. It will bring coverage to 32 million Americans — slightly better than the earlier estimate — and extend Medicare solvency by at least 9 years while closing the prescription drug “donut hole.”
Sure it will. And Medicare and Social Security were structured to self-fund as well in perpetuity.
BTW – If the need is so urgent (“thousands are dying”) and it reduces costs so much, why are 10 years of taxes being collected for 6 years of benefits?
Wishful thinking based purely on ideology.

So Obama is worse than Bush. He is lying and tricking his way into a quagmire.
At least Bush had 77 votes in the Senate for his Iraq war authorization. In fact, 30 out of 50 Democratic senators voted to invade Iraq.
How sad that Bush was ultimately more birpartisan than Obama.
Can you image in Bush had privated Social Security using reconciliation and deem and pass ?

From CBO report, projected cost by year:
2010 – $2 billion
2011 – $5 billion
2012 – $5 billion
2013 – $5 billion
2014 – $54 billion
2015 – $104 billion
2016 – $161 billion
2017 – $187 billion
2018 – $201 billion
2019 – $216 billion
Even the mathematically-challenged Lefties should be able to visualize (and project forward) this trend…
Feels like the last nail in the coffin, doesn’t it?

“Even the mathematically-challenged Lefties should be able to visualize (and project forward) this trend…
Feels like the last nail in the coffin, doesn’t it?”
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 11:59:05 AM
Gee, what would make you think the Dems numbers are rigged? Just because it takes TEN years of tax revenue to cover SIX years of benefits??

Feels like the last nail in the coffin, doesn’t it?
Posted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 11:59:05 AM
hahahahahahaha. The CBO score is officially out now. P. Ryan can confirm it.
I agree with the post regarding what Steve Benen wrote:
“”The legislation is fully paid for, reduces the deficit in this decade, and even more in the next decade. It will bring coverage to 32 million Americans — slightly better than the earlier estimate — and extend Medicare solvency by at least 9 years while closing the prescription drug “donut hole.”
… a report like this one should prove exceedingly difficult for Republicans to spin.
… By any reasonable measure, this is a very strong CBO score…”
Republicans don’t like fiscal responsibility or solutions to chronic problems. They just like the sound of their rhetoric. All drama, no solutions.

“p.s. You’re not my interrogator.”
Aw, playing the victim.
You are correct, there is already a shortage, this crappy legislation will make the situation worse (which, BTW, is not about healthcare, it is about growing government influence over the economy and dependence by the masses, which you probably support as one who refers to Bernie Sanders for guidance).
How about reimbursing doctors to cover their full costs for Medicare patients? How about tort reform to reduce malpractice costs? How about not threatening (through comparative- and cost-effectiveness requirements contained within this legislation) to dictate how doctors should treat patients? How about less interference in general from the govt.?
Here’s a start. Still awaiting a response from you.

“The legislation is fully paid for”
Really? Can you explain the shuffling of $500 billion in Medicare cuts? These are double-counted. Please enlighten us.
“The CBO score is officially out now.”
You can’t even get this right. Disclaimer from the CBO letter to Pelosi:
“Although CBO completed a PRELIMINARY review of legislative language prior to its release, the agency HAS NOT THOROUGHLY EXAMINED the reconciliation proposal to VERIFY its consistency with the previous draft. THIS ESTIMATE IS THEREFORE PRELIMINARY, PENDING A REVIEW OF THE LANGUAGE OF THE RECONCILIATION PROPOSAL, as well as FURTHER REVIEW AND REFINEMENT of the BUDGETARY PROJECTIONS.”
Final CBO score not expected until tomorrow or Saturday.

Aw, playing the victim.
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No, I’m telling you I’m not your victim. I’m also not worried about what you’re waiting for.
Do you have any numbers and data to back up your proposals? All of those suggestions have been widely written on with mixed results. It would be useful for a fruitful discussion to know what you use as evidence that those ideas are workable solutions– and to get a sense of whether you’re grounding your proposals in good data or spin from morons. I think there is some merit in a couple of them, but as usual with Republicon memes, they aren’t comprehensive and they don’t get at the heart of it… their more like bandaids based in rigid ideology and to comfort given special interests than actual solutions.
Think supply and demand… which comes first? And also have you compared physicians per capita in the US with the numbers in other countries?
I won’t be waiting for your answers. I have some errands to do, and I think that whole thing is silly. But if you actually come up with anything substantive I’ll respond later.

I have a responce….
It won’t matter, because the way the country is going, we’ll probibally be Nuked of the Planet by our enemies.

as dictated in this legislation.
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And yet there are already shortages as you’ve acknowledged. Keep digging, and projecting– so it has nothing at all to do with the legislation that hasn’t been enacted yet.
As for my offering nothing– I’ve offered you an opportunity to have a substantive conversation if you can provide any evidence at all that you are aware of the substance and are interested. As of right now, you still haven’t cited credible data or studies or respected journal articles. (Actually there are some, but its highly telling that you can’t cite them. ha!)

osted by: tjp612 | Mar 18, 2010 11:42:06 AM
I’ve already debunked your “BTW” a few times.
Several reforms and benefits kick in 90 days after legislation is passed, more 90 days later, more at the top of 2011, and the insurance exchanges will be up and running in 2014– allowing an opportunity to get infrastructure up to speed for the increased demand gradually. Seriously, someone so concerned about the demand that will be created should understand this– as should anyone that has ever started a business. (Moreover, the way this is structured is hardly unprecedented– look it up.)
The problem with Republicons is that when they see fiscal responsibility, they don’t like it. They’re too used to hearing the talk without anyone from their party walking the walk.
Ezra Klein: “Only in Washington,” said Rep. Mike Pence, “can you spend a trillion dollars and say you’re gonna save the taxpayers’ money.”
And only in Washington can such willful obtuseness be considered a professional attribute. You can believe that the savings in the Democratic plan will work as CBO thinks they will work, or you can disagree with that. But let’s not pretend there’s something complicated about the theory of spending money and saving money at the same time.
Let’s say I own a graphics design firm. But all our computers are very old. A lot of time is wasted waiting for Adobe Photoshop to load and compute. So I decide to upgrade all of the computers. Costs a lot of money. But since my designers can now do more projects in a day, my firm is actually making more money. So yes, I can spend money and increase my bottom line at the same time. Investing in order to secure efficiencies is not a new concept.
The health-care example is a bit more complicated because the thing we are spending money on (coverage) is not the thing that’s saving us money. But it’s not that much more complicated.” (WaPo)

The POTUS should get on that Poker show on the sports cable channel.. no one would know what kind of hand that player was holding. He knows when show ‘em and know when to hold ‘em.

progressive mama wrote: “The bill will cost $940 billion over the first 10 years and reduce the deficit by $130 billion during that period.”
.
Only in left-wing communist la-la land can anyone be proud of spending $940 billion that you don’t have to save a totally FRAUDULENT $130 billion.