Obama Rallies Support for Health Care Reform by Pointing Finger at Insurance Companies

So Obama is trying to sell the idea that insurance companies keep raising premiums, knowing they’ll lose customers, because they believe that will raise profits?
Doesn’t that open the door for a competitor to come in and sell the same policies for less?
I had really hoped for a more honest debate from him. He’s got this all wrong, and is demonizing an American industry in order to get political support for his agenda.
What company feels comfortable operating in this environment? Remember, he did the same thing to energy/oil companies during the campaign.

Doesn’t that open the door for a competitor to come in and sell the same policies for less?
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Where are they? Seen any sign of premiums going down in the past years through competition?

someone below claims obama is “demonizing” health insurance companies. first off, that person clearly has great insurance. secondly, i work in a surgical ICU and have also worked in an outpatient setting and these companies have used every tactic at their disposal to jack up premiums while paying out less year after year, while keeping those with pre-existing conditions from getting coverage–which, in turn, makes the taxpayers pick up the bill. maybe it’s time to stop ignoring the facts for the sake of “conservative” idealism

Obama is being disingenuous. He should be honest about what is going on.
Posted by: MayBee | Mar 8, 2010 1:51:36 PM
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I think he was.

“I think he was.”
Like he was about bonuses…

He should explain what his plans will do, and how it will address the real problems.
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Agreed. Once the reconciled plan is finished – it should be explained fully in simply language.

From Politico and rollcall:
EMBATTLED DEM CONGRESSMAN: I WAS PUSHED OUT FOR HEALTCARE!
‘THEY KNEW I WOULD VOTE NO SO THEY GOT RID OF ME AND NOW IT WILL PASS’…
UPDATE: Will Resign Monday as Planned…
Lashes out in emotional radio appearance…
Obama VS America

tierra:Agreed. Once the reconciled plan is finished – it should be explained fully in simply language.
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If there is no plan finished that can be explained fully in simple language, why is the President going in public demanding an up or down vote *now*?

If there is no plan finished that can be explained fully in simple language, why is the President going in public demanding an up or down vote *now*?
Posted by: MayBee | Mar 8, 2010 2:05:51 PM
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Because he has confidence in either plan? And is similarly confident in the reconciled plan?

The states do have an anti-trust exemption, in the McCarran-Ferguson Act, however I encorage you to read the law and the court case associated with it(United States v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association).
McCarran–Ferguson basically says that as long as the states regulate the business of insurance they will not be subject to federal regulation or anti-trust laws, because according to the court case mentioned, insurance could be regulated under the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution.
Also the law allows for states to set up madatory licensing requirements, state regulation and preserves the preexisting state laws of insurance.
People who are clamoring for the federal government to come in and regulate the big-bad insurance companies ignore the fact that the states already heavyly regulate the business of insurance, and that to pass their sweeping reform legislation something must be done about the existing McCarran-Ferguson act.
The House bill removes it, and to my knowledge the Senate bill doesn’t mention it (which could open up court cases against it, with the states filing suit against the federal government for infringement on statesrights).
The more I study the issue and the comments and bills the more I see this as not an issue of healthcare for all, or “bending the cost curve” but rather the federal governemnt attempting to intrude upon the rights of states to regulate intrastate commerce as they see fit.
Some states are already fighting back, Utah(emminent domain) and Virginia(health insurance mandate) are the most recent two I can think of.
Should be an interesting few months.

Because he has confidence in either plan? And is similarly confident in the reconciled plan?
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That’s great that *he* has confidence.
But as you said, you want the final bill to be explained completely, in simple terms. That should happen before it is passed.

The insistence by the Administration and Congress that it is acceptable to use “reconciliation” to pass a bill that is so complex, pervasive, and UNPOPULAR WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, raises this issue to an even higher level. To insistence on passing this bill using a process that was never intended to be used in this way, raises this issue to the level where it puts our entire system of government at risk. WE THE PEOPLE must VOTE OUT anyone who votes for this bill in the House or Senate because they will be contributing and approving of a complete perversion of our system of government. If you value our system of government as designed by the Founding Fathers, you have a moral obligation to VOTE THEM OUT if they vote for this bill knowing “reconciliation” will be used to pass it against the will of the people and without any bipartisan support. It does not matter if you are for or against this kind of so-called healthcare reform; it does not matter if you are liberal or conservative; it does not matter if you are democrat, republican, independent, or tea party, you must raise up an VOTE OUT anyone that supports this process by voting in favor of this bill. Using “reconciliation” in this way sets a dangerous precedent that could be used in the future to tax as even more or infringe on our freedom even more.
All Americans should be outraged about what is going on with this Administration and Congress. It is time to VOTE THEM OUT before they do any more damage!!! This is no longer about healthcare, this is an issue about the very essence of our system of government. WE THE PEOPLE will VOTE THEM OUT!!!

Obama is being disingenuous. He should be honest about what is going on.
Posted by: MayBee | Mar 8, 2010 1:51:36 PM
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I think he was.
Posted by: tierra | Mar 8, 2010 1:59:20 PM
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Tell us Robert “Tierra” Gibbs, does Obama have any more judge openings to hand out to Reps who happen to be voting ‘no’?? What a bunch if filthy frauds and shame on you for coming on here defending them.

What a bunch if filthy frauds and shame on you for coming on here defending them.
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More name calling and smear tactics from the Republican right – do the Republican not have any policies other than this?

Why anyone would still trying to defend Obama at this point is unbelievable. What else does he need to screw up before some of you figure it out??? I guess when this country is bankrupt and you dont have a job or a house or any insurance period, some of you might wake up.

I guess when this country is bankrupt and you dont have a job or a house or any insurance period, some of you might wake up.
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You’re describing almost exactly the situation the country was left in by the previous Republican administration when the national debt was doubled, the deficits were exploded and the economy collapsed on their shift.

Billy Bob, just cling a little tighter to your guns and relegion and it will all be ok.

texas outlaw At least I can spell religion.

I had surgery a few years back. My doctor could perform the surgery at either his small clinic or at the hopital. He charged $2,000 – $3,000 while the hospital charged $12,000 – $14,000. The hospitals have to charge more to help pay for illegals and overhead costs. I’m not defending insurance companies…I’m just putting out another cost contributer.

Government doesn’t run businesses, it ruins them!
Think what you are wishing for:
Medicare $36 Trillion in the hole
Social Security $16 Trillion in the hole
US Post Office $7 Billion in the hole last year
Amtrak we’ve lost count
Freddie/Fannie $15 Billion loss last quarter
When the Feds owned one of the most profitable little whorehouses in Nevada (taken for back taxes/tax evasion), they couldn’t even turn a profit.
Are you insane thinking that Obama’s healthcare plan will be any different, and now you are talking 1/6 of the entire US economy. The Scam will bankrupt the entire country, not just a few major institutions.

For you folks who cannot grasp someone telling you who has run up the biggest deficit
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For those of you who cannot grasp what happens to deficits and budgets when the economy of a country collapses – study some economics.
Not only did the Republican administration double the national debt, and grossly enlarge the deficit – Bush presided over a disastrous collapse of the economy. Let’s just pretend that didn’t happen shall we – and that it had no effect.

shame on you for coming on here defending them.
Posted by: Denbo | Mar 8, 2010 2:34:06 PM
“shame”???
LOL!!!
Unless you’re saying shame on the RNC or shame on Liz Cheney or shame on Tom DeLay and Jim Bunning, I think you’re shaming is hyperpartisan and not worth worrying about.
Personally.
I also think the senators holding up SAFRA are shameful. Per Steve Benen at POlitical Animal:
“The Obama administration has asked Congress to remove the middleman, streamline the process, save taxpayers a lot money, and help more young people get college degrees.
The House already approved the plan, and the Senate may follow suit through reconciliation. So, Republicans — who prefer the more expensive, less efficient status quo because bank lobbyists tell them to — are doing what they always do. Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), a former Secretary of Education, had an op-ed in yesterday’s Washington Post complaining of the Obama administration’s attempted “Washington takeover … of the student loan system.”
Sounds like he’s following the aims of the RNC presentation– make people afraid, very afraid, even if that means propagating blatant falsehoods.

Billy Bob, just like a Republican to change the topic on a loosing argument.

Question for the masses: If President Obama truly hates the insurance companies, then why is he proposing a plan that will INCREASE these companies’ membership rolls?

The only rational and humane solution to the health care crisis is a socialist one, where economic life is organized to meet social needs, not the accumulation of wealth by a tiny elite. The health care industry must be nationalized and placed under public ownership and the democratic control of the working population.
This requires a political struggle against the financial oligarchy and its representatives, the Obama administration and both the Democratic and Republican parties, and the fight for a workers’ government.

Rallying support, my backside. He went to one of the most depressed areas in the country and preached to a hand selected audience of his parasitic followers about more free stuff from the nanny state.

more free stuff from the nanny state.
Posted by: rplat | Mar 8, 2010 3:16:48 PM
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More ‘free stuff’ from the nanny state went straight to the big corporations during the Bush administration.
Two wars financed on not paying for them (with huge amounts of money going to the military/industrial friends of the administration), a seniors prescription big pharma plan financed on not paying for it – and cuts on taxes for the rich, not payed for. ‘Free Stuff’ under the Republican president.

CommonSenseIsMyPassion, I completely agree.

I am sure insurance companies love the idea of the Obama administration still wanting to criminalize those who choose not to buy health insurance from the same insurance companies who wont lower the price for everyone – well thats not helping everyone is it? Its not even real reform. The bill they want to pass while pretending to be bi-partisan is the pretty much the same bill word for word. I call shennanigans on this article. It wont be socialist, it wont be Canada or France, it wont be cheaper, it will just be forced on us to pay for or pay a fine. Regardless of the price of premiums – which are sure to go up.

I can tell you that anyone in my congressional district who does not support the president and healthcare reform will not get my vote next election! I am tired of the fighting and blame game – It has paralized our government – it is past time we do something!

superminority…stop with the fear mongering and distortion. Do you have a choice paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, or property and school taxes? If you don’t pay into these, you cannot receive it, and if you don’t pay property or school taxes, you lose your
property even if you never had a child to attend school. Same thing if you don’t register your car and renew the registration, you can’t drive it, and if you do, you can be fined or arrested in some states. There are many things we pay for which carry punitive action if we didn’t pay it. If you work, then you pay Social Security and Medicare taxes whether you want to or not. Why not just have a withholding medical tax applied the same way for those that don’t want to get medical insurance. This isn’t rocket science, but it needs to get done. We cannot continue to see the out of control rate increases the insurance companies are doing without thinking this won’t impact on all of us, it will. Right now they are writing the health policy for our nation, something unheard of anywhere else in the world. Is this right or should we be doing it?

Let’s separate medical insurance from employers, and give us all the money we make in our jobs…and let us CHOOSE what to do with ourselves. There will have to be something for the uber-poor and disabled…but otherwise, hands off.
And put your jacket back on Mr. President. Such a windbag.

Its interesting that you talk about redistribution since that is what health insurance is spreading risk, health and wealth. Jonathan Chait has an interesting article called Sink or Swim posted at TNR, and it highlights how Republicans support leaving the sick out in the cold, as if health was entirely the responsibility of the individual and bad things never happened to good people. Check it out.
Posted by: progressive mama
Almost compares to the dumBO administration telling women over 50 to pass on the mammogram, huh?

Hey, folks, we have to get past the debates and begin somewhere. Let’s pass the health-reform bill, and like any other legislative bill, add to it; modify it; amend it; and make it better. Just like we do with any other bill. BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING TO START WITH!

Two wars financed on not paying for them (with huge amounts of money going to the military/industrial friends of the administration), a seniors prescription big pharma plan financed on not paying for it – and cuts on taxes for the rich, not payed for. ‘Free Stuff’ under the Republican president.
Posted by: tierra
Maybe you forgot? Afghanistan is a dumBO deal.

Is it too much to hope for that the MSS could cease with the spin and just support the fact that the overwhelming majority of Americans are suffering, have NO health coverage, and cannot afford it. The constant coverage of the spin created by the MSS, in my opinion has enabled the insurance cos to do what they do best…profit off the backs of poor people.

I do not understand a president that doesn’t listen to the people?
Is Obama crazy, stupid or is just a arrogant sob? It has to be one of the three.
Today he represents the worst of Washington.

It’s a real joke to say rates will decrease under ObamaCare. They want the insurance companies to increase benefits by having no waiting periods, no waivers and unlimited maximums as well as no pre existing condition limitations. These increses will only force the insurance companies to raise rates. The insurance company profits now are only about 2% which is not the large profits Congress bad mouths the insurance companies on. The bill was obviously written by someone that knows nothing about health insurnce and what great options American have from all the insurance companies offer their clients. I still urge all those in Congress to read the bill and kill it.

This bill has severe problems. It’s not paid for. It takes away the individual’s rights and puts the government in charge. Obama needs a bad guy for people to be mad at so he can justify passage. Wake up America.

Allowing Obama to set up an ‘insurance company monopoly’ – that doesnt require them by law to lower the price of anything – is not what the USA needs – certainly not now or ever.

When Obama won the Presidency with the help of the LEFTIST Media, Hollywood And Entertainment Liberals, Ethnic Socialists (ACORN), Stupid Non-Business Professionals and Bush Haters, I wrote: It won’t take six months until the People figure this guy out and realize how horrible a mistake they’ve made. And when they come to that realization, the damage to the United States of America will be so great it will take a generation or more to repair – IF EVER.
The IDIOTS who not only voted for the Messiah, but also worked [hard] to promote his Lordship, are now left holding the bag.
Here are two things they will NEVER do: They will NEVER admit to making a Blunder out of all proportion by electing a snake-oil salesman with no Positive social history or management experience of any kind. They will NEVER take responsibility for the curse they’ve imposed upon the immediate and long-term future of their country.
In essence, the people responsible for putting this horror show in power are themselves responsible for every cataclysmic decision he makes and the Consequences thereof.
In just six months, the Messiah’s polls are showing the following: On Healthcare Reform – He’s going under for the third time with polling well Under 50 percent, even within his own Party. Even though he might be able to Muscle a Healthcare Reform Bill by using Chicago BULLY tactics against his Fellow Democrats, it will just make things worse. On Cap and Trade (Cap and Tax) – The Fat-Lady is already singing. On the Stimulus Package (Tax and Spend) – His popularity is in FREE-FALL. On the TARP package he took and ran With from President Bush – It’s all but Good-Night Irene. On the closing of GITMO and “HIS” war on what he no longer wants called the War On Terrorism – He’s standing in quicksand with his head just about to go under. On a Comparison between himself and George W Bush at the same six months into Their respective first term Presidencies – Bush is ahead of him in the Polls On a comparison between He Who Walks On Water and the 12 preceding Presidents between WW II and now – Obama ranks 10th. On a Poll just Conducted, that asks who would you vote for today between Obama and Mitt Romney – It’s a dead heat. Between Obama and Palin – Obama’s ONLY ahead by 8 Points and she hasn’t even begun to campaign. It seems to me that Obama Wants to be everywhere where he shouldn’t be.
He’s personally invested in ‘totally insulting’ America ‘s ONLY REAL Middle Eastern ally ( Israel ) in favor of Palestinian Despots and Murderers. He’s traveling the world apologizing for the USA while lecturing others on how to do it right, when in fact and truth he has no experience at doing anything other than getting elected.
He went to the Moslem world in Egypt to declare that America IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION while he heaped praises on Islam, where he compared the “plight” of the Palestinians to the Holocaust.
The Russians think he’s a putz, The French think he’s rude.
The Germans want him to stop spending.
The Indians want him to mix his nose out of their environmental business.
The North Koreans think he’s a joke, The Iranians won’t acknowledge his calls.
And the British can’t even come up with a comprehensive opinion of him.
As for the Chinese, he’s too frightened to even glance their way. [After All, China now owns a large portion of the United States .]
Maybe if America’s first Emperor would stay home more, travel less, and work a little bit instead of being on television just about everyday or stop running to “papered” Town Hall Meetings, perhaps he would have a little bit of time to do the work of the nation.
In all fairness, it wasn’t HARD to be RIGHT in my prediction concerning Obama’s presidency, even in its first six months, so I’m going to make yet another prediction:
OBAMA WILL PROBABLY NOT FINISH HIS 4-YEAR TERM, at least not in a Conventional way.
He is such a political HORROR SHOW, and so detrimental to the USA and his Own Democratic Party, that the Democrats themselves will either FORCE him to Resign or figure out a way to have him thrown out.
Who knows, maybe he really isn’t a BORN US Citizen and that’s a way the Democrats will be able to get rid of him. [He is a citizen, but not a naturalized citizen with both mother and father being US citizens.]
Or – MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, the Democrats will make Obama THEIR OWN LAME DUCK PRESIDENT.
I don’t believe the Democrats have nearly as much love for their country as they do for their own political fortunes. And with Obama, their fortunes are rapidly becoming toast.

It’s a real joke to say rates will decrease under ObamaCare.
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Somehow I take the New England Journal of Medicine and Atul Gawande more seriously: See Medicare’s Opportunity to Encourage Innovation in Health Care Delivery, and Testing, Testing (the latter at the New Yorker). See also What, You have a better idea for cost control by Jonathan Cohn at TNR.
As he puts it and I agree: “I would support health care reform if it did nothing more than expand and strengthen health insurance coverage. I think it’s a moral imperative, as much for the sake of the middle class as the poor. But it so happens that the bill moving through Congress will do something more. It will reduce the cost of care–not by a lot and not by as much as possible in theory, but as much as is possible in this political universe. That’s far better than the alternative, which is to do nothing.”

dumBO will say anything to anybody at this point to get the garbage bill passed. His credibility is at 0. His accomplishments in the last 14 months 0. The leftist camp that bought his last two elections are demanding that he pass something. Anything to prove their point. To bad the dumBO lemmings won’t get off the kool aid long enough to realize their king is wearing no clothing.

First of all the Government has no business being in the Health Care business. THey have failed at it when they tried to do it ,
like in Medi-Care . So why not leave it up tp corporations to provide Heath Care to their employees – Nation wide. Then all the Corporations have to do is suspend premiums to the Large Insurance companies for say 60 or 90 due complaints that they might have about Health Care and that will get the attention of these greedy Insurance companies with their money being put on hold.In other words ,the Fortune 500 companies would have alot more clout than the inefficient government does . Also this would mean no new Taxes for The American people and where could The Government help ,they could provide Tax Incentives for the Corporations to provide both : Jobs and Heath Care to their employees.
This is what you would call a real stimulas package that helps in two ways:Corpations will pay less in Taxes and make more profit and the Ameican People will enjoy real Health Care benefits.A win win situation for all of the People not just for some of the People And NO New Taxes for the American
People.
Thanks,
James

I just lost my health care because the company could no longer afford it along with higher taxes when is all of this going to stop!
The corporations just do not give a damn about the American public they are all owned by the Repbs who espouse fear and anxiety to control the masses!
America PLEASE WAKE UP!
This is not a test!

If the government can actually “fix” our insurance system while somehow making money doing it, I am all for it, but….. Can they “fix” the post office, medicare, Amtrak, Social Security, medicaid. Sorry for being so negative, but that is called a track record and it is not good. It’s like having a company install your roof, you find leaks, and ask that same company to fix it again. Open up insurance across state lines. Let’s have true reform of health care costs in pharmaceuticals, universities, med procedures and equipment, tort reform, insurance, etc. If you are going to reform a system, you need to reform the whole thing.

why are most doctors , other than the phony ones that obama uses as props, againt this bill?

not touch actual health care costs
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Maggie Mahar, Health Beat Blog: “Let’s put to rest, once and for all, the idea–or rather, the notion (it’s not even an idea, just a vague impression, based on hearsay)–that the health reform legislation now under discussion includes no plans for containing health care spending…On the question of whether the reform bill would control costs, Noonan does acknowledge President Obama’s claim that reform will “‘bring down the cost of health care for millions’ that it is ‘fully paid for’ and that it will lower the long -term deficit by a trillion dollars.”
But her response is purely rhetorical: “Does anyone believe this?”
That’s the problem with Op-eds—no proof, no evidence. Much bombast, trimmed with rick-rack (metaphors found in the Notions’ Department of the mind.)
By contrast, one of the nice things about articles in peer-reviewed medical journals is that they are footnoted…
The piece by Robert Mechanic and Stuart Altman in last week’s NEJM may be less colorful than Noonan’s, but in place of self-expression, it offers truth grounded in careful analysis of the legislation: The Senate and House reform bills lay out a blueprint for cost-containment, spelling out precisely how Medicare can squeeze waste out of the system while simultaneously lifting the quality of care. Anyone who tells you that seniors will no longer have access to needed tests and treatments is, pure and simple, lying.
You may think that you have heard talk of Medicare slowing health care inflation in the past — with little in the way of tangible results. But as Mechanic and Altman point out, this legislation is different…” (Health Beat blog)

progressive mama — OK, with ICU’s costing $20000 a night, MRI’s over $2000, show me ANYWHERE in this bill that will control those types of health care costs. There is a huge difference between health care costs and insurance premiums prices.

We need HC REFORM — But definitely not the one OBAMA WANTS. People often have confusion on this and please be careful:
OBAMACARE DOES NOT MEAN REAL HC REFORM.
(Don’t be fooled by his campaign style propagada. We were fooled during the election and don’t make the mistake again. Too bad Hillary lost !!! OBAMA is very good at PROPAGANDA – he is always good at playing VAGUE AND RHETORIC LANGUAGE …
Voice from an Angry and waked up DEM.

progressive mama — I know we disagree at times, but the only way our government could ever make the majority happy is probably through single payer. Trying to appease some while trying to leave those alone that are content never seems to work out for politicians.

mr president you are doing what is best for america keep up the great work and too those against the health care if you don’t want help then you just keep paying your big insurance companies and the rest of us will get a good policy . and to the republicans sleeping with the CEO’S hope you don’t get pregnant . you might be refused health care because of a pre existing condition ..( your screwed by the people who own you LOL LOL LOL :)

Did they drop you or go out of business? We will see many go out of business when this reform is passed. When the government can dictate who and what you can charge, profit margins evaporate and companies fold. That is reality.
Posted by: lfrichar | Mar 8, 2010 5:03:45 PM
NO – that is NOT the reality!!! Stop lying and scaring people. The reality is that most small businesses can not AFFORD to provide health insurance for their employees – IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE – that is the reality!!! These employees can not afford to buy health insurance on their own for themselves and/or their family – that is the reality!!!
They wait until they are so sick that they must use the EMERGENCY ROOM for treatment – which has the highest cost for medical treatment – that COST is past onto everyone thru higher insurance premiums and/or higher medical costs and/or higher taxes.
40,000 people a year DIE because they do not have health insurance. Thousands go bankrupt because they do not have health insurance. Private insurance companies have a 20-30% profit rate because they get to pick and choose who they will cover – the more sick you are the more likely they will drop you!!! AND that is the reality!!!
Single payer plan is the BEST option. Take private insurance companies completely out of profit vs. sickness business. I rather have my company pass on my insurance premiums to the government who then pays my doctor bills then have them past it to a corrupt, for PROFIT private insurance company who will look for any reason NOT to pay my doctor. Or at the very least – this country needs a public option where small businesses and self-employed people can buy affordable health insurance. It is time that we CARE about the people NOT the corporations for a change.

ap just released a change to the bill where business will be fined for not providing health care to part time workers. WAY TO FOCUS ON JOBS. what employer would hire part time workers now? i really wish this president had experience in the working world or running a real for profit business.

Five Wisconsin residents, including two who worked for community organizing group ACORN, were charged Monday with election fraud relating to the 2008 presidential election.
…. how can we trust OBAMA who has a 15+ year-long close tie to ACORN to handle our HC issue? (He denied it in recent abc / cbs interview)…
I don’t trust him. He plays Chicago politics all the way to WASHINGTON.

Isn`t President Obama the politician that made a back room deal with the insurance companies and big pharma last summer? So what gives? He still hasn`t shared with us peons, taxpayers actually paying the bills, what the deal was, though I hear big pharma has been raising prices like there`s no tomorrow lately. On the other hand, as I recall the big pharma deal, they agreed to raise prices 1% less than they had planned, so maybe that deal hasn`t technically been broken, yet. Reminds me of the Obama deals with the banks last year where the administration failed to use its leverage to get the banks to act right. I guess we now know what the deals he negotiates are worth.

Yeah, it’s so urgent none of the benefits kick in for years.

Posted by: catman | Mar 8, 2010 5:36:59 PM
You get your news from FOX??? When the truth is explained to Americans – they want it health reform and they want the public option, etc. The fear-mongering (and racism) of the GOP is causing all the confusion and anger.
Like yesterday, I had two elderly people come knocking on my door pushing for a young Republican hopeful… He is against health reform because it is “SOCIALISM”, etc, ya-ya – ya-ya, b/s… I asked them if they received Social Security and Medicaid… they said yes, I asked them if their grandchildren attend public school – they said yes… I ask they if they like police, firefighters, teachers, the military, our infrastructure, libaries, museums, public hospitals, NASA, etc. – SOCIAL and/or GOVERNMENT SUBSIZED PROGRAMS – all paid for by the redistribution of federal/state taxes – they then left my house.

Bush is the one who made the back room deals with insurance and pharmacuticals last year. He practically gave them a blank check. Were in the world were you during the 8 years Bush was in office? Were you brain dead? All you have to do is use your “common sense”. The claims about Death panels, socialism, companies dropping their good insurance to make you get the public option, come on, public option will be depend on your You will not be eligible but feel lucky if something happens between now and then and you loose your job that we will have it. Socialism? I don’t know, public schools, Medicaid, Medicaire, Also, anyone who says Health Care is not important then complains if it is why is it going to take 2 years, ah-h-h, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

“Bush is the one who made the back room deals with insurance and pharmacuticals last year .”
He was Pres on 2009? I knew it!

melanie in az…look at todays rasmusem numbers. thats whay dems cant pass this thing. their constituents and independents like me dont want it. we need jobs and people working for their own benefits. you are not telling the truth. 58 % of AMERICANS say no ,

Melanie n AZ—- Insurance premiums are expensive. The root cause??????? Rising health care costs. You can’t reform insurance until you stop the runaway health care costs. How can an insurance company stay in business lowering premiums when they will have to accept pre-existing conditions and be cost controlled by the government. I don’t believe the estimate of this bill. Furthermore, show me when the government has come within or under bedget in the past 50 years. Please show mw a program and maybe I will start to believe. The reality starts to hit doesn’t it?

“”"”received Social Security and Medicaid… they said yes, I asked them if their grandchildren attend public school – they said yes… I ask they if they like police, firefighters, teachers, the military, our infrastructure, libaries, museums, public hospitals, NASA, etc. – SOCIAL and/or GOVERNMENT SUBSIZED PROGRAMS – all paid for by the redistribution of federal/state taxes “”"”"”"
Posted by: Melanie n AZ
Typical Dem rant. Government programs are paid for through taxes. Do you really think I want to pay for public schools when I don’t even have a child? So give me that tax back. These are programs set up by taxes we have no choice but to pay. Social Security is not socialism, you pay in and they pay you out later. Medicare is an entitlement because you paid for it through taxes. Capitalism is what keeps those programs alive not socialism. I would rather not pay tax and let me handle my own business, but I dont have a choice. Funny how Dems bring this up all the time. Show me one country that is flourishing due to socialism.

“”"”I can sleep at night knowing that I care about my fellow American… YOU not so much!!!”"”"”
Posted by: Melanie n AZ
Right in line with ALL the Dems soundbites. Now, because people want real reform, theydon’t care about their fellow man. Obama calls it Insurance Reform, Rangel calls it National Insurance. The day Obama is ready for real reform, he will have to be ready to upset doctors, lawyers, pharmaceuticals, med schools, illegal aliens and anyone on a government handout. Until then, allhe s going to do is give the insurance companies 3 years to do exactly what the credit card companies did in 8 months, gouge us for more cash before the program kicks in. I have an idea, I will sell you a new car, you start paying now, but you can’t drive it for 3 years. I gotta go. Have a good one.

“40,000 people a year DIE because they do not have health insurance.”
Never seen cause of death on a certificate to read “no insurance”.

hey socialism worked in the USSR, right?

mark from atlanta, is it only Democrats who have no health insurance? If that’s the case, you might wonder why. If all Republicans are successful and capable of caring for themselves, perhaps youve made the wrong political choice.

More Hypocrisy from the Right,
Move to Canada and enjoy their system. We’re still a country you’re free to leave, at least for now.

Why is it Americans polled favorably when asked about the provisions of the health care bill. But when asked about “the Dems bill” or “Obama’s bill” it goes the other way?
Obviously it’s just paritisan morons who have no clue what’s in the bill. The lemmings have been trained to absorb the propaganda. Why not, it’s easier than thinking right?
So the “reduce spending” pinheads have an issue with a bill that REDUCES the deficit? (Note they never said a word about spending while Pubs doubled the debt.)
The “we pay too much” parrots can’t handle the majority of premiums will GO DOWN?
Or are they just against everyone being able to afford health care. It apparently impacts their need to feel superior?

Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin — who has gone to great lengths to hype the supposed dangers of a big government takeover of American health care — admitted over the weekend that she used to get her treatment in Canada’s single-payer system.
Looks like Comrade Palin used that evil “socialist” system with poor doctors and terrible care. Hmmmm.
**********
Visited as a child when Canada did not have socialized medicine. Just like a liberal, hear half of the message and attack on little none facts.

Why arent you libs asking yourself why arent you mad at obama because he is one of the biggest evil insurance individuals denying people medical insurance everyday? Is he not in charge of social security, medicaid and medicare? Everyday people are being denies medicaid because they make to much money or medicare because of pre existing medical problems or social securitry benefits for a disability. So who is the biggest of all the evil insurance company its your man obama.

Same old tired socialist/progressive garbage from the “V”s that have taken over the government. We don’t want this bill and if they push it down our throats they will pay with their jobs on election day.

Even after factcheck and politifact have debunked the myth, there are still right wing sheep saying “we don’t want a gov’t takeover of health care”.
Do you guys ever check your sources? “Gov’t takeover” is a lie.
There are still insurance companies (unfortunately), there is still a private system, there is no gov’t takeover. Try FACTCHECK for a change.
Republican leaders never read the bill. They’ve admitted that much. Seems odd they “know” what’s in it and can condemn all of it. Their bstructionist policy was pre-determined before the bill was even started.
Pubs had Congress and the Presidency for years and did NOTHING to improve health care. Now that the Dems are actually going to make positive changes for all Americans, they know they look like insurance company patsies. They have no choice but to resist. It’s their only political hope.

I am happy to see him out there pushing for this bill. Although not perfect, it is a start and we can get rid of the bad when it is signed and ammend as needed but to have no bill is a disaster. Unfortunately, people’s mind have been changed by the talk show hosts who have been mis-stating facts and minapulating them to fit their agenda. But remember one thing, if you have no health care now…you may not get it for a long time…can you afford it? I think not is the response I get from those I personally know.

Alaska, upper North, has civilized medicine few and far far apart..Palins parents going to Canada was probably more to do with it being closer and having a train that ran to the town they went to. As Americans—it would have been unlikely that their health care would have been free or that the doctor that saw them had been fully socilialized considering how new socialized medicine Canada was at the time.

I believe the Democrats as far as I can throw them (especially Obama)!!!! —- When the Dems created Social Security, they promised us 1) That participation would be completely voluntary; 2) participants would pay 1% of the first $1,400 of income; 3) contributions would be tax deductible; 4) The money would be placed in a Trust Fund’, not the general operating fund; 5) payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income. —– NONE OF THESE PROMISES ARE STILL IN EFFECT!! —- And it was a DEMOCRAT in later years that repealed each and every one of those promises!!

Thank God that President Obama is interested in America’s economic future being in a more stable state. He is wise is wanting health-care reform, because many Americans are suffering at the mercy of insurance companies who are raising premiums and denying their claims. Also, a long-term sustainable economic growth requires a health-care system that is not a drag on business, and that is what President Obama is proposing, doing, and rallying towards. And we are rallying behind him! We need health-care reform now! and not later!

There is little in this bill that will bend the cost curve down. You can’t add 33 million people to healthcare and expect the gov’t to run it effectively or efficiently. Look at medicare, medicaid, social security, fannie, freddie, post office, amtrac, AFG war, Iraq war, AIG, TSA and other programs are either broke or way over cost. Obama’s $787B stimulus from last year is already $75B over cost. His ten yr budget projections are already $1.2T over last summers estimates. A $1B cash-for-clunkers program cost $3B and was shut down 3 months early. Cash-for-caulkers cost tax payers $23K per home. Gov’t owned GM sales up 11% in Feb while privately owned Ford sales were up 44%. Gov’t, both parties, are incompetent and will bankrupt this country…..if there is no money, no one gets health care.

Didn’t Obama critize McCain during the health care summit for still “campaigning”. So why is Obama in Philly and off to other cities to campaign for this garbage of a health bill

A Complicated Enemy: Obama Seeks to Vilify Health Insurers,Then Give Them $336 Billion Check..from ABC
Obama VS America

We are not impressed by statistics that health care costs have increased 100% in the past ten years. The statistic means that health care costs have increased at an average rate of 7% per year, which is not the super-scary statistic that Obama would have stampede us into supporting his bad health bill. As for health insurers, they basically manage pools of insurance premiums money in a way that they can pay all the claims and make a profit on the money. They are protecting the premiums pool of money (our money paid in) AND protecting their own profits. That’s how insurance works. Obama wants the insurance companies forced to pay out money on claims regardless of what’s paid in. Apparently, Obama thinks the American people are simpletons who believe you can get something for nothing. As President, Obama is a good professor. Clueless, but fun to watch.

I just had a wierd thought…well for me, maybe not so wierd..
Anyway, you know how the movies reflect current trends, ideas? Notice how the ‘action’ movies have to have a villian..right.
I remember shortly after 9/11 there was a lot of talk in the movie industry about how to deal ‘sensitively’ with Muslims. PC controls said they couldn’t be seen as villians.
Now, with President Obama demonizing health insurance companies I have to wonder when we will see some of Robin Cook’s novels on the big screen. I know he has at least 2 or 3 based on ‘evil’ insurance companies or HMOs.

We’re the only advanced nation on earth that doesn’t insure its citizens. The right has spent twelve months obstructing this debate, spent fifty years sabotaging every attempt to fix the system, spent generations protecting no one except rising corporate profits while the death toll mounts, and then complain we shouldn’t be hasty, we should start over another day, year, generation. And the sheep keep falling for it.

Is he not in charge of social security, medicaid and medicare? —–posted by Stanley
——————
To answer your question…no he is not.
In explanation of the above answer:
Social Security isn’t even related to medicine; it is a ‘retirement pension’ fund.
Medicare is governed by regulations passed by Congress and implemented via the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid. Much of the policy decisions for Medicare are managed by private corporations under contract with CMS. The implementation of changes to medical policy can take months and even years based on the controversy and cost.
Medicaid is a state-run program providing health insurance to the state’s citizens. The states each manage their own Medicaid programs under very broad guidelines from CMS. Medical policy is almost entirely left to the individual states.

Health insurers basically manage pools of insurance premiums money in a way that they can pay all the claims and make a profit on the money. They are protecting the premiums pool of money (our money paid in) AND protecting their own profits. That’s how insurance works. Obama wants the insurance companies forced to pay out money on claims, regardless of what’s paid in. Apparently, Obama thinks the American people are simpletons who believe you can get something for nothing. Also noteworthy, Obama wants young people forced to pay insurance premiums to pay health costs of older citizens, such as Baby Boomers. When the young people who voted for Obama figure out he is trying to take their money in order to pay for Baby Boomers’ health care, the young folks will not be happy! The fact the young people’s money would be paid as insurance premiums and not as taxes would be no comfort to those forced to pay. Maybe what we need is some incentive for competition among health insurers, and an opportunity for people to pay extra for pre-existing conditions. Why should the people who have paid insurance premiums all these years be forced to pay the full pop for people who have paid no premiums and now have a health condition needing attention?! I see nothing in Obama’s plan that addresses basic fairness. And his villification of insurance companies is merely lame propaganda.

I think one of the reasons implementing health care reform is so difficult in the U.S. is because people have become so polarized. On the one hand, you have liberals, screaming about the evil, greedy health insurance companies (and their conservative minion/masters – depending on which liberal is doing the screaming), and on the other, you have the conservatives, screaming about the evil, power-hungry liberals/socialists/communists/bad-peopleists.
Maybe if the left would stop demonizing everyone who doesn’t agree with them (that includes President Obama) and the right would do the same, people might be able to take a breath, find some common ground, and get down to the business at hand – getting America back on the right track.
All of the rhetoric and drama isn’t doing anyone any good – it is just dividing people further. You have to look no further than the comments on this article to see how obstinate and bitter both sides have become.

If president Obama Health care reform plan is so great why did EXEMPT himself Michele Obama Congreaa, Senators and thier families from it all americans should have the same insurance that he has otherwise he should follow the same reform health care that he wants all americans to have

-We’re the only advanced nation on earth that doesn’t insure its citizens.-
The gov plan in GB stinks. It is in the red in France. Success!

Another “Straw Man” aka the
insurance companies set up by this
carnival barker of a President to
knock down!
Listen up, Mr President, Stop Talking
and Start Listening!
We the American people want
Healthcare Reform but We Don’t Want
this Unconstitutional Bill!
Listen, Listen, Listen!
We know the basic elements of the bill
and we don’t want it to be passed!
Start over and try to come up with
a truly bi-partisan bill which includes
Republican input from day one not
last minute grandstanding!
If you continue to ignore the majority
of Americans in this country and pass
this bill by reconciliation(51 votes)
in the Senate you and your party will
suffer the largest political tsunami
in history this November!

Obama has done NOTHING during his administration except double-cross us all. He was elected because of his “fierce moral courage” on Iraq and the Patriot Act. hahaha. Now he is taking credit for Iraq’s success and just renewed the (Pelosi Congress-passed) Patriot Act without a whimper.
The health care bill is an enormous double-cross on every level:
* A majority of Americans will be forced to make demeaning adjustments in their health care planning, their taxes and their servitude to the federal government.
* Financially it is a double-crossing fraud, as illustrated by Rep. Ryan in that Blair House summit(funny, you haven’t heard a response to his analysis by any Dems, nor have you seen Obama go after him — move along, nothing going on here, hmmm). The dollars alone will enslave and disable the economy of our nation for generations to come.
* Our own representatives have been double-crossed by the dreadful back-room dealings on this bill, and are only being pressured to swallow more.
It is now up to our Representatives in Congress. They alone stand between the imposition of this tyranny and the freedom to start fresh and get it right.
The Senate already passed their hideous bill, and if our Reps are duped into thinking they will get any reconciliation or fixes, they are averting their eyes from the double-crossing punk behind the curtain.
KILL THIS BILL. KILL IT DEAD. START AGAIN. GET IT RIGHT.

When I read these posts I am reminded why we are in this mess to begin with. The hate mongers, the prejudiced, the right want to be wingers that believe their own rhetoric is what is destroying the very thing that our men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan are losing their lives to preserve. What Congress needs is a good taste of what a good portion of Americans are suffering, lack of health care. What if we took away all their perks and turned it into revenue to try to pay back the national debt. You know the debt that was caused by the last administration that walked away free and clear from committing the biggest heist in the history of the world.
For those of you that constantly ridicule a President that has been handed the worst of the worst conditions this country has ever experienced, I want you to know that it is beyond comprehension.
For those of you tea partying dim wits that continually say that President Obama’s health care bill is bad, please back that statement up with some substance. Saying something does not make it so.

I am very disappointed in Obama. I voted for him. I donated to his campaign. I even helped to campaign for him. Not all of us living in Texas are bigots. I wanted to give the guy a real chance to make the changes that he claimed that he would. He said that first and foremost he would pull us out of Iraq. He now that we know and understand that President Cheney lied to us to start an illegal war to steal their oil we are going to pull out and apologize to the Iraqi people. Ooops that did not happen. He was going to stand up to the Wall st. bankers. He did so by hiring Timoothy hiestner or Geithner-whatever! He was swimming in the same cesspool with the very scum bags that destroyed the economy. He has sent billions of dollars overseas to help build Iraq. He spent billions on clean energy for other countries. I kid you not. The US borrowed billions from the Chinese and then we turned right back around and gave them a billion dollars to build wind turbines. No US jobs created. Iberdrola of Spain got another half billion. Oh, now how is that for change. We would have at least been entertained if we elected Sahara Palin. She could do a lap dance and pageant walk at the same time. Now, that takes some skill. John McCain was going to run with Joe Liberman but was he not the guy that ran with Al Gore? Duh! their is not one dimes bit of difference with these scum bag liars. Lets keep on destroying the planet. We have just about destroyed everything. Do you think God put us on the planet to destroy his creation? Evil idiots.

we must pass this bill. the sheep must follow the shepard without question for what is right. we must obey or face the consequences.

Do unto Republicans as Republicans would do unto you. Pass the bill.
Posted by: Bob | Mar 8, 2010 10:58:29 PM
************************************

EXEMPT Wrote:
“If President Obama Health care reform plan is so great why did EXEMPT himself Michele Obama Congreaa, Senators and thier families from it all”.
I would like proof of that statement please.
Post a link to your source for that, cuz that sure sounds like made up internet BS to me.
I’m waiting, but won’t be holding my breath.

This country (The Divided States of America), needs to stop playing this “Tug of War” game, and get serious, but unfortunately, there is too much money in the wrong hands, and too much power to fight over. The Health CARE Reform needs to look at every aspect of the problem, without throwing billions of dollars into the problem, but th insurance business IS a big part of the problem. The Republicans with their game playing, biased polls, and their personal “PUPPET MASTERS” at Fox News, is another part of the problem, taking the focus off of what needs to be done. The insurance cos. are in the business of making money, which is what any business tries to do, but when making money becomes the primary business, as opposed to their primary purpose, helping sick people, something is seriously broken, and the insurance cos. need intervention. The Republicans can do their socialism, crap, but it is what it is! They are protecting the almighty dollar, more than the people they are supposed to be doing the HONEST work for. Mitch O’Connell, and his buddies, DeMint, and Boehner, need to resign, their posts, for conflict of interest. Theuy are more interested in what their lobbyists are putting in their pockets than the people who voted for them. They are just good talkers, but who are they really working for?

Yes health insurance cos. keep raising prices but you can no thank you. Under this government plan you must have insurance your option of saying no thank you is taken away. And God know how many time they will raise prices if this passes.

Why is the president so hell bent on bankrupting the country and bringing 1/6 of the U.S. economy under government control? Only 40% of the public support his health care plan – over 51% are against. Amazing.

So I understand Democrats and liberals don’t like anyone who is able to make any money. But, why did the story ignore the fact that while Obama is telling people how awful the insurance companies are they are planning on handing them $330 billion dollars?

Where is the story that Obama mis quoted by almost $1 trillion in savings over the next 10 years? Anytime he gets caught, he “misquoted”.

tierra; I can guess you’ve never got yourself out of a big deal….I can tell…

What a choice! Health care managed by a corrupt incompetent political system OR health care managed by blood sucking insurance and bankers…. are we supposed to like either one? At least we can trust the bankers and insurance to be competent but greedy …
Posted by: rock and hard place | Mar 9, 2010 7:46:24 AM
I agree up to a point, though I disagree profoundly with the notion that huge biz is competent and trustworthy. Didn’t the year and a half of the bailout teach anybody anything?
One of my big problems with so-called libertarians and conservatives in this country, the laissez faire free market myth believers and propagandists, is that they talk about Liberty as if pursuing freedom from the state only to be a slave to another hierarchical coercive power makes sense– and as if one doesn’t rely to some extent on the other, as if all concentrations of power and wealth don’t become corrupt and serve as potential sources of oppression. LOL. They also rail against a pragmatic centrist Dem president proposing a very pragmatic centrist health care/insurance reform plan as he tries to pull the country back to the center and come up with solutions to chronic problems.
I’d very sick of idealogues clinging rigidly to their utopian notions. Personally, I’m both a libertarian and a progressive socialist, I guess, as I’m anti-big, which these days could be characterized as anti-statist since I’m not thrilled with big government and its cronyism and ties to special interests, and anti-capitalist if capitalism means multinational corporate giants get to rule the world.
I think the supposed dichotomy between liberty and equality is a red herring and I’m sick to death of false dichotomies like the one you present, but…you have to deal with the circumstances at hand. So, we have a deal on the table that doesn’t force the choice you discuss. That’s just the truth. Both government and private enterprise will be working together, and hopefully, there will arise solution-oriented innovation since none has arisen, or taken off, within the private sector.
Bob Black: “To demonize state authoritarianism while ignoring identical albeit contract-consecrated subservient arrangements in the large-scale corporations which control the world economy is fetishism at its worst.” (Bob Black)
And, yeah, vice versa.

The Bush apologists want to blame the Dems for our economic malaise— they would have some credibility if they took half the blame— Do you think giving tax cuts to the Upper 3% while fighting two preemptive, simultaneous, wars of choice, might have created a good part of the deficit??? But no– they will skirt the issue– I blame both parties equally — However, obstruction is a political ploy, and is not governing — Obama is not a Messiah and neither is the GOP, being recent converts to the “fiscal responsibility” Religion !!! Too bad they didn’t convert when they were in charge— Look– Our current Health system is an overpriced beast — Why not get creative and start finding ,and taxing, all the off shored corps. and individuals who are circumventing the system — or try a 5% national deficit tax — One way or another we need Revenue— The Interest on the GOP addition to our deficits is 500 Billion
Thank you GWB and the Not Fiscally responsible Republicant’s — The Dems are equal partners in the debt— Its either cut services — raise revenue— or close the loopholes– Perhaps a flat tax and National sales tax — To replace the unfair Income tax disparity–

Progressive mama, you may want to check out the government website that shows where the different Congressmen report who donates to them. Some of your favorite socialists…errrr…progressives like Pelosi are getting lots of money from Insurance companies. If the’Progressives’ actually researched stuff instead of just believing what Emmanuel and Maher told them to think, they might be surprised.

Some of your favorite socialists…errrr…progressives like Pelosi are getting lots of money from Insurance companies. If the’Progressives’ actually researched stuff instead of just believing what Emmanuel and Maher told them to think, they might be surprised.
Posted by: Mac | Mar 9, 2010 9:43:37 AM
Oh, please, Mac. You sound like a partisan hack. I’m well aware of who contributes to ALL of our elected representatives, regardless of party, and trying to pretend either party is untied from special interests is wholly ridiculous.
Try some fresh thinking, and talking points. And follow the insurance lobbying money and the money to front groups, and talk about ALL their meetings, will ya, with parties from both sides. Then follow the oil money.

Oh, please, Mac. You sound like a partisan hack.
Posted by: progressive mama | Mar 9, 2010 9:54:19 AM
______________
Pot, meet kettle.

What does the ‘Oil money’ have to do with Healthcare?
Posted by: Mac | Mar 9, 2010 9:56:17 AM
Look it up. Look it up.
LOL.
As for introductions, naievete meet reality.

Actually, I followed $15 Million in Saudi Oil money to Bill Clinton last year. Remember that?

It’s fine..it’s all a difference of opinions. America has become dependent on the Government to take care of them instead of them working for it on their own. One of the few rights we have left is the right to have a different opinion.

Progressive mam, since you hate Oil and Oil companies so much, I guess you ride a bicycle everywhere you go? And I suppose to you don’t use electricity, either?
How noble of you to back up your disdain for an evil empire by not using their services.

I don’t expect Daddy Obama and Momma Pelosi to provide for me and control my life.
Posted by: Mac | Mar 9, 2010 9:47:35 AM
Nah. If you’re “old school” you’re most likely into the corporate nanny state. Goody for you. You picked a heartless nanny that nearly pulled down the economy– and that has never been as free from a government alliance as you might like to think.
Moreover, you appear to think bad things never happen to good people, or that those who aren’t old school don’t provide for their families– and that there aren’t many ways to go about that. Maybe not– but the insinuation appears to be hidden in there.
___________________________________
No I am old school as in my Father taught me how to work and think for myself. He taught me that if I was spending more than I make, or if I am not making enough then I need to get 2 jobs. He taught me not to blame people who had more money than I do for my financial problems. He taught me values that have led to me having a semi-successful small business that employs 10 people.
What values were you taught to be able to run the business you run?

Posted by: Mac | Mar 9, 2010 10:15:04 AM
I walk a lot, and ride a bike– but I have to laugh at your jump in logic. I hate the oil industry’s influence and don’t like any huge hierarchical power centers of influence as I don’t think its healthy or in keeping with the founding fathers’ vision for the country– but I am an American and given to overconsumption as its been part of my cultural upbringing, yes? I’m working on it– but I occasionally take a plane ride, too. LOL. I look forward to the cultivation of alternate renewable energy sources, and have comparison shopped electric cars.

It was rude and uncalled for though, and not in the spirit of adult debate.
Posted by: Jen B. | Mar 9, 2010 10:13:21 AM
Nah. No worries. I jab back, and sometimes throw a killer right hook– I’m not a hypocrite and don’t hold grudges. Sometimes, just getting it off your chest clears the air so you can move on to actual debate, right?
Well, for me.
And yeah, I like TPM. Good website.

I hate the invention of Corporations…they only built the greatest and most prosperous country the world has ever seen. I think Obama should just take over all of them, destroy them and then run the companies himself. Yea…that is a better business model for a country, don’t you think? It worked really well in Cuba, Venezuela, Russia and North Korea. All profits should go to Pelosi, so she can distribute the money and services where the all protective Government knows to be best. THAT is some Progressive thinking Comrade!

Also I find it funny how Obama attacks insurance companies. A week or so back they complained about outrageous profits and then attacked 2 non-profit insurance companies! Not only that but the left attacks against insurance company’s profits are just like those of big oil. They mention the dollar amount but never the percent of profit. For instance big oil companies that were attacked by democrats never posted a profit percentage higher then 8%. Insurance companies are happy if they can get 5%. Are profits less then 10% above breaking even outrageous? I guess if you’re on the far left it is.

Progressive mam, I’m sure you are more than willing to run your company at a 6% profit right? (That’s what Exxon Mobile’s profit margin was as reported by CNN)…or wait, maybe even better is the Health Insurance industry that operates at a 4 1/2% profit margin? Maybe not? What profit margin do you run your business at?

Posted by: Mac | Mar 9, 2010 10:41:27 AM
Maybe if they didn’t spend so much money paying politicians, funding front groups, paying huge bonuses and lobbying, they’re profits would be greater and their stockholders would be better off. Worth thinking about as the unholy alliance between big business and big governments isn’t healthy for the populace.

Posted by: Sandcrab1612 | Mar 9, 2010 10:37:15 AM
I gotta roll for now, but both of the topics you mention have been debated by wonks and constitutional scholars. You can easily google the topic and read arguments on both sides, including the precedent and unlikelihood the legislation would be overturned by the SC. By asking the question at this stage in the game you’re basically showing your hand and where you’re at on the subject. I believe its constitutional and ought to be via the ability to regulate commerce, provide for the general welfare via a social safety net, and, for the mandate, though you didn’t ask, tax though there’s more than one way to skin that cat (e.g., the way we get to the minimum wage)

progressive mama – Thomas Sowell who earned his Bachelor of Arts degree in Economics from Harvard, his Master of Arts in Economics from Columbia University, and Doctor of Philosophy in Economics from the University of Chicago has many fine articles on Investors Business Daily. Sowell argues that the proposed health care buills currently in Congress will ruin our economy and is unsustainable over time. You should read his articles as in his younger years he was of a Socialist belief but over time has realized that is the wrong path to go down. A well respected economist who has a proven track record.

Hey Sandcrab – the issue of strict v broad constructionism was settled back in 1803, when Jefferson – the very architect of strict constructionism – purchased Louisiana Territory and then passed the Embargo Act in 1807. Perhaps you should read any standard 8th grade American history text.
The federal government possesses the right, in fact the responsibility, to step in and fix a market failure. Why there are so many who believe the medical insurance industry to be entitled to anti-trust exemption is beyond me.

Anybody that believes that the Federal Government controlling 1/6th of the economy is a good and prosperous thing is just wrong. That’s pretty much the only way to put it. Whether it’s Romney, Castro or Obama. It’s just wrong.

Posted by tierra:
Do unto Republicans as Republicans would do unto you. Pass the bill.
Posted by: Bob | Mar 8, 2010 10:58:29 PM
************************************
Here’s one for you tierra and Bob:
You reap what you sow!
Enjoy it now the political tsunami is
coming in November if this bill is
passed!

“ratcheting up his criticism of insurance companies that he said are more concerned with their own profits than serving Americans consumers. ”
well, you could certainly make that statement about the current administration and congressional leadership.
Let’s see…. Since taking office O has asked us to hate insurance companies, finance companies, banks, oil companies, coal companies, car companies pharmaceutcial companies..who did I forget?
As the snake he is, he spits out alot of venom.

tierra–”Good! A decent health insurance system should reap great rewards then. “— Yes it would, except this isn’t a good health care reform bill, its a terrible one…
Does it lower private insurance costs? no, in fact at the state level in places like Mass. and Tenn. it has caused rate to more than double.. Will it allow more businesses to purchase insurance for theier employees? no, since the “fines” will be far less than the cost of the premiums, it will actually promote companies dropping people who are currently covered. Will it provide coverage for all the uncovered people in this country? No, of the 47 million uninsured, this bill will only cover an additional @20-25 million. 20 Million + will still be uninsured AND, the deep cuts it makes to medicare will greatly reduce the benefits available to our seniors who live on a fixed income. So MORE will go without quality care. Will it increase the quality of care? NO, since private preacitce will be stifled by limitations of Medicaid rates +/-10%. It will discourage physicians from entering private practice. Will R/D be unaffected? No, taxes on R/D productes and procedures will skyrocket under this plan… gone will be the days where 80% of all new medical innovations come from the US…
_________________________________
This bill is horrible for almost all aspects of our current healthcare situation in this country.. the only thing it does succeed at is giving the government control of an additional 3 trillion in private moneys AND too much control in the decision making portion of our own health care…

tierra—”How does anyone deserve to get paid $10,000,000 per year? Profits perhaps?”—- Franklin Raines made 60 million in 5 years as the head of Fannie Mae… this was at the height of Fannie and Freddie selling bundled loans in a ponzi style scheme that almost wrecked our economy… When Obama was running for the presidency, guess who could be seen on the podium behind him in several appearances.. Franklin Raines. You can villianize anyone… is 24 million alot? definately But thats 24 million to run and be responsible for a multi-BILLION dollar company. Are you aware that health industry profits margins are barely in the top 50 companies in the US (about 3.3%) Compare that to Beer companies whose profit margins are over 26%… And while you are at it, do a little research and compare those numbers with other major company chairs. In the private business world, share holders can pay anything they see fit to make sure that the best person is running their company and insuring its continued success.. whether you like it or not, thats the American way…How would you like it if someone came to you and siad that they thought you made twice as much as you should? What right do they have to challenge your paycheck? I know you will say, “but I am not an insurance company”.. true, but where do you draw the line between those who are and are not “touchable”? You should be able to make whatever your boss is willing to pay you for your services.. whether thats 12 dollars and hour or 12 million a year…

Get your facts right… oh wait.. you’re a liberal…thats probably impossible for you…
Posted by: arkie vet | Mar 9, 2010 2:30:08 PM
Oh, good lord, a Limbaugh apologist. LOL. Talking about facts of all things. LOL, LOL, LOL.
After that previous fact-impaired post I have to say you certainly have chutzpah if not the facts and truth on your side in most instances.
Turns out Costa Rica has both national universal health care and private health care, which I didn’t realize– so he is nearly, though not quite, as silly as my employees who claimed they’d go Galt to Canada. LOL.
And just as an FYI, Arkie, progressive blogs posted the entire exchange and I was able to listen to it, too. And yet… if Rush were telling the story about a progressive, I’m pretty sure he’d tell it however he wished, wouldn’t he? Bottom line, he suggested we could get rid of him by passing health care reform.
Its a no-brainer. Let’s do it. Let’s cover millions of uninsureds, tackle medical inflation through using the pilot programs in the bill and expanding those that work, and get rid of Rush!
(Maybe if we add a public option sooner rather than later, we’ll get rid of him more quickly.)

The Obama Healh Reform Bill “gives” Health Insurance Companies $800 million; so Obama is full of it as usual; he says one thing and does another.

Making every one buy insurance is good for the insurance companies,so why is Obama just paying lip service to false accusations. The Gov,has two medical programs now and they deny certain tests and are in the red so why would we want another. Medicare and Medicaid are both Gov run and both nonfunctional.

Mac, or Mac1014US is back defending corporations and their right to a certain profit margin. MAC is a paid poster. His handle is run by a group of paid posters. Insurance companies routinely have handles like Mac omn boards defending their egrgious behavior. UNUMProvident a notorious Disability insurance company had paid posters spreading lies and misleading readers on boards such as this. MAC’s postings should be given ZERO crdibility. Note how his postings defend the poor insurance coNpanys rights to make profits. All the billions they make, net billions, only represents a small margin of costs to operate. MAC’s postings should be given no credibility what so ever.
SECREG756

S/B Murdoch owns the WSJ not the Times.
SECREG756

60 vote supermajority s/b the Senate and not the House.
SECREG756

Face it, Progressive Mama, you were being reckless with the truth and got nailed.
Posted by: smartlillena | Mar 9, 2010 6:05:51 PM
Sorry, pal. You’re wrong again. Listen to the audio. It’s available. Its the Republicans that flat out lie.
Whats comical is when Limbaugh apologists suddenly get all worried about full context. Ha! Even then, the other commenter got it wrong. S/he claimed Limbaugh didn’t say what he said.
Oops– he did.

YES It’s time to talk turkey. All those in favor of health insurance companies depriving people of life saving coverage because of pre existing conditions yell NO! Wait till next year! All those in favor of scrapping medicare and privatizing medicare so the elderly and the sick are subjected to health insurance company executive decisions to profit or not to profit. Just say NO! Wait until next year. All those in favor of keeping thirty six million Americans uninsured. Just say no! Wait until next year! All those in favor of voting against your own suggestions. Just say NO! Wait until next year! All those who believed the original bill was too long! Just say NO! Wait until next year! All of those who are unhappy about the new eleven page bill being to short! Just say NO! Wait until next year! All those who are in the minority and want to see nothing get done to help sick Americans! Just say no! Wait until next year! All of those who bellieve it’s OK for large insurance coNpanies to lose policyholders, raise premiums by 39.5 and make obscene profits by screwing the American people. just say NO! Wait till next year. Health insurance is a right all Americans should have. It is not a privilege. Our country has changed since our founding fathers fought England for our independence. Let’s keep our moral compass and do the right thing. SECREG666

Health insurance is a right all Americans should have. It is not a privilege. Our country has changed since our founding fathers fought England for our independence. Let’s keep our moral compass and do the right thing. SECREG666
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It is staggering to think that in this day and age, we are even having a debate on health care reform. Much of the civilized world has long done that while we like cavemen can’t figure this out. It’s amazing that something as simple as this can be twisted and distorted to the point that it scares people. This is about saving lives over profits and greed. Sooner or later we will all get to a point in our lives that someone we love is involved and needs the life option. SECREG666
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Nice posts with so many good points.
Meanwhile, from Dan Pfeiffer’s blog:
“If we enact health reform, it will restrict how much of your premium dollars can be spent on profits and overhead by requiring health insurance companies to spend 80-85% of the money they take in on care.
That’s worth keeping in mind. Because right after the Insurance companies announced huge rate increases for families across the country, they gathered at the luxurious Ritz Carlton in Washington to announce that they are spending $1 million on ads to defeat health reform.
That money could probably be better spent keeping rates down for customers.”

This is crazy! Why you all fighting? We all agree that reform is needed, but no one wants to compromise, its either this way or that way! Come on ya’ll we got to get behind something and make it work. Who says we can’t change it if it doesn’t. “Fail fast, learn quick, Move on!” Think big as so many people go without insurance. A lot of people are willing to pay for it, but can’t pay cobra prices. Most people aren’t asking for a handout! They are simply asking for a way to take care of their families. Have we forgotten about the main focus of reform. Its easy to forget about the “Have nots” especially if you’re one of the “Haves” Reform is needed, stop the fighting, grow up, make a decision and move on so that other problems get some attention.

Jonny, you’re making a case for a business that deals death cards to sick people. You say, “most people work for insurance company’s”. I know not. Find a conscience.
SECREG666
SECREG666

There are many problems with the healtcare plan. Having everyone to buy in, is just one of them. It has flaws, but it is a start. Getting everyone to agree on everything is impossible. The Republicans who say they were always for health reform the last eight years are lying. Bush let a few big companies buy up all their competition, 5 companies have 90% of the market. As someone wrote a couple years ago, the problem with healthcare companies, is, they think they’re energy companies or some other group. Health care companies consider, any “treatment” a loss. I’m sorry to someone above but these people are greedy and immoral. Maybe they weren’t at sometime in their lives, but they are now. They are also evil, yes evil, because they make decisions everyday that ruin and kill people. Of course it’s easy when they are removed from the consequences. I would also like to see their books, about their so called small profit margins of course they won’t let anyone see how much they spend on non-treatment expenses. Right now they will do anything to show profit on wall street, even if people die, of course they don’t ever see those little people.

All this for health care bill….thats is …